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Old 01-29-2010, 09:31 AM   #26
Stardustaquarion
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Default Re: Red Letter Church

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Originally Posted by Unified Serenity View Post
This is not about the Red church, but when Jesus was born. I will go look at that other link regarding the church.

I couldn't resist putting my two cents in here:

Jesus was born on September 11, 3 b.c.e on Tishri 1 the Feast of Trumpets which heralded the new year and first day of government or his Kingship.

It can be determined by finding out when Zachariah was doing his priestly duties in the temple. It was the "course of Abia" Luke 1:5-8. Elizabeth got pregnant then and 6 months later, Mary got pregnant. Thus 9 months later Jesus was born. The spiritual symbolism is quite interesting. We are also given a huge clue in Revelation 12:1–5. I've provided a link below for those interested in the scholarship and spiritual blessing it offers.

When I was involved in Messianic Judaism years ago, it was interesting to learn how fervently the observant Jewish community took Rosh Hashanah and would pray to God, repent of their sins, ask forgiveness of their fellow man and recite "The book is closing, the book is closing" in preparation for the book of life closing and needing to have their names in it in case they died that year. They believed to not have their name inscribed would mean separation from God forever. We also know that Mary took Jesus to the Temple to be dedicated shortly after his birth believed to be on Yom Kippur.

For a truly amazing and spiritually uplifting read, please go to:



This link leaves no doubt when Jesus was born, and to the deeper student the significance of that date, which interestingly has been perverted into a day of war by the Illuminati.

Other sources says that Jesheua (Jesus) was born the 22 of November...isn't it amazing that the Romans that were so efficient at keeping records don't know when Jesus was born? All the documentation is apparently under the Vatican

Love
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:08 PM   #27
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The historicity arguments can be quite intricate and disturbing. They are fair game though...and you make a good point. I want to be a better person...every day...and in every way. If one is depending on the Bible for emotional and spiritual support and strength...it is rather hard to be completely objective. Much groundbreaking biblical research has been done by "unbelievers". They have done us a service. However...the devotional aspects of the Bible should not be trampled upon. My bias is that the words which are printed in red letters in a red letter edition of the Bible are fundamental. This, I suppose, is a more refined fundamentalism of sorts, but without a lot of the negative baggage! I'm leaning toward a New Theology Based Upon Humanistic Christocentric Egyptological Science Fiction. That's quite a mouthful. I'm just starting my journey in this direction...so I don't know if I'm heading down a dead end road or not...but I think it's going to be a rocky road! I don't think there is one right way to "do theology"...but the words attributed to Jesus are a good place to begin and end any philosophical or theological study. The science fiction aspects involve a lot of what is discussed within Avalon. Much of this is difficult to prove conclusively...so I am considering it to be science fiction. But just because it's science fiction...doesn't mean that it's not true! I'd like to see a lot of the contents of the Vatican Library made available online. I suspect that this library contains things that would leave us stunned. What would Bultmann say? What would Tesla say?

Namaste

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Old 02-02-2010, 05:20 PM   #28
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Here's one exegesis I found:

"Let us begin by asking: How many sons does the Bible tell us that God Almighty has?

1. Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22.

1. Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14.

1. Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).

1. Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38.

1. Common people (you and me) are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12. "That ye may ...

"What was he trying to tell us by constantly repeating and emphasizing to us throughout the New Testament "I am a human being," "I am a human being," "I am a human being"?. What had he foreseen? Think about it!.

"Do Christians emphasize this aspect of Jesus? The New Testament Greek word translated as "son" are "pias" and "paida" which mean "servant," or "son in the sense of servant." These are translated to "son" in reference to Jesus and "servant" in reference to all others in some translations of the Bible (see below). As we are beginning to see, one of the most fundamental reasons why Jesus (pbuh) is considered God is due to extensive mistranslation. We shall see more and more examples of this throughout this book.

"Islam teaches that Jesus (pbuh) was a human being, not a god. Jesus (pbuh) continually emphasized this to his followers throughout his mission. The Gospel of Barnabas also affirms this fact."
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/l...ch1.2.3.2.html

...........................................

Back to UFO Jesus, it was just a thought for me. I'm not into occult or Masonic interpretations. We'd have to ask 777 - I read in one of his posts lately that humans have *33 vertebrae*. I continue to consider the Leonid thing though - something about it... has a mysterious attraction. So, I'm just exploring its astronomical possibilities, in the sense that maybe we humans rationalize celestial events and transmute them into religion, myth, belief systems.

That said, I do believe Jesus walked the Earth, was a super ethicist, street fighter (the temple!), was strung up like many others who historically kick imperialists' a*s. Is love revolutionary?
Could we be dealing with several "Gods"...with big ideas for Humanity? Did they each have special sons, daughters, and nations? Are Gods, Goddesses, and Angels really Reptilian Beings (or Reptilian/Human Hybrids)? This is not meant to be irreverent or rhetorical. Is there a Divinity Within Humanity which is at least equal to that of the Gods, Goddesses, and Angels? Is this what Jesus was trying to tell us in a round about way? When God 'made' Humans a little lower than the Angels...was this really a genetic detuning and dumbing down...rather than the Creation of the Human Race?

Lately...I've been toying with the idea of a non-penetential, non-sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Mass based upon the Latin Mass...and I'm not a Roman Catholic. For further information regarding the Non Roman Catholic attraction to the Mass...take a look at the book 'Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail'.

I keep thinking that there was a huge Human vs Reptilian War...where we got our @$$ kicked by the Reps...and that now we are Prisoners of War on a Prison Planet administered via a Reptilian Theocracy. Who knows...we may have deserved some of this. I really don't know. But whatever the historical case may be...WE NEED TO MOVE ON! WE NEED TO RULE OURSELVES IN THIS SOLAR SYSTEM! I continue to like the idea of The United States of the Solar System...based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...in the context of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...in the context of the United Nations...and applied to the entire Solar System. If a quarantine is deemed necessary until we become at least a +3 civilization...then so be it. We may be a Planet in Rebellion. If so...we may need to temper our irrational exuberance into a Constructively Competitive and Responsibly Free Society.

Please read through http://redletterchurch.net/ as a devotional exercise. I don't consider it to be 'the answer'...just another step in the right direction.

Namaste

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Old 02-15-2010, 04:14 PM   #29
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The question "what would Jesus do?" is a popular one. It is a helpful ethical guide under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, there is an even more important question, I believe, "what did Jesus say?" Then it is up to us to do what Jesus said! It's almost too simple! Obviously real-life challenges are not so simple, but the words of Jesus, illuminated by careful-prayerful study and the Holy Spirit, provide an ethical-spiritual home base where we can formulate our positive responses to the challenges and perplexities of modern life!

Namaste
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:39 PM   #30
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The term "Red Letter Christian" seems to cause many Christians to bristle! Why is this? Is it the manner of presentation by Red Letter Christians such as Tony Campolo? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uasjRvevFFo Perhaps. Tony is a very aggressive speaker and writer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcbKWT10z34 But I think the Teachings of Jesus make us very uncomfortable when we are doing something wrong or are corrupt! Sometimes things have to seemingly get worse in order to get better. When one kneels at the feet of Jesus and looks into His face of love, one knows that they can do better (no matter how good or bad they are)! The experience may make us squirm, but ultimately it makes us better people, and the world a better place! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2g8I...eature=channel

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

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Old 03-10-2010, 03:22 PM   #31
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The words of Jesus are not isolated from the rest of scripture, but they are central to scripture. Each and every Bible study and sermon should be centered in the words of Jesus. It's not about excluding the rest of the Bible, but rather about understanding the whole Bible by placing the teachings of Jesus front and center, where they belong! An ideal method of study is to take your favorite red letter, cross referenced version of the Bible, and read the red lettered portions, in context, and read all cross referenced texts in their contexts. Let the Bible be its own interpreter, with the Holy Spirit as your guide. But first, get plenty of exercise in nature, plenty of rest, and plenty of prayer! Lastly, integrate all of the above into everything. This isn't easy, and it's not for wimps! The texts are ancient and we live in a modern world which is becoming more complex, perplexing and dangerous by the millisecond! But if the principles and concepts of the Teachings of Jesus are not integrated into our modern world, we face negative consequences of truly Biblical proportions...

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:35 AM   #32
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Default Re: Red Letter Church

ODM--

Cool Thread! it was amazing to me when i began it that it started so many months ago, cause it "reads" like it was al written yesterday.

Orthodoxy -- it "feels like" to me that you are presently undergoing a fairly intense, energetic, nervous-yet-curiously-peaceful, joyful phase in your spiritual development. and, speaking for myself, it's DELIGHTFUL to watch it progress!. You are SO SPECIAL, ODM .... thanks for always "keeping us guessing" (at what you'll say next! LOL), and for doing such a terrific, job of weaving together what may seem like drastically disparate strands of the truth about All-that-Is (and, i agree, the Red-Letter kind is an EXCELLENT starting-point for the weaving). and the strands are joined together into a lovely creation whose, diverse colors shimmer mysteriously before our eyes,inviting us to come home to ourselves, to our Source, to the tender familiarity and excitement of our most intimate lover.[/I]

Thank you, Orthodoxy, for sharing with us so openly and innocently .... from your authentic-spot, your "little-child." May we each learn from you better 'n better each day how to be our little child.

your sister in Unity,
hippihill


P.S. i've been meaning to ask you ...... why the LATIN Mass?!? the "resonance" of the language, perhaps? just wondering (i'm Catholic). hhb
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by hippihillbobbi View Post
ODM--

Cool Thread! it was amazing to me when i began it that it started so many months ago, cause it "reads" like it was al written yesterday.

Orthodoxy -- it "feels like" to me that you are presently undergoing a fairly intense, energetic, nervous-yet-curiously-peaceful, joyful phase in your spiritual development. and, speaking for myself, it's DELIGHTFUL to watch it progress!. You are SO SPECIAL, ODM .... thanks for always "keeping us guessing" (at what you'll say next! LOL), and for doing such a terrific, job of weaving together what may seem like drastically disparate strands of the truth about All-that-Is (and, i agree, the Red-Letter kind is an EXCELLENT starting-point for the weaving). and the strands are joined together into a lovely creation whose, diverse colors shimmer mysteriously before our eyes,inviting us to come home to ourselves, to our Source, to the tender familiarity and excitement of our most intimate lover.[/I]

Thank you, Orthodoxy, for sharing with us so openly and innocently .... from your authentic-spot, your "little-child." May we each learn from you better 'n better each day how to be our little child.

your sister in Unity,
hippihill

P.S. i've been meaning to ask you ...... why the LATIN Mass?!? the "resonance" of the language, perhaps? just wondering (i'm Catholic). hhb
Thank-you hippihill. People who appreciate other people are to be most appreciated...and you are one of those people. You are quite articulate. You write as though you might be a Theologian at a Roman Catholic University! Everything seems to be up for grabs...and somewhat chaotic...and I'm looking for common ground regarding the best wisdom to be found throughout the world. There is an information explosion...and it's hard to keep up! I'm not trying to stir things up. I'm trying to make things more settled and sane...even though it might not seem like it, at times.

Regarding the Non-Penetential, Non-Sacrificial, Humanistic, Christocentric, Ecumenical Namaste Latin Mass...Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity...I'm once again looking for common ground to legitimately unite people in a non-coercive manner. I love the architecture, art, music, robes, incense, and ceremony of the Roman Catholic Church...yet I am aware of a dark-side and problematic-side as well. Latin is sort of obscure...so a Mass could be conducted in Latin world-wide...and people would feel right at home as they traveled throughout the world...or watched on television or the internet. Also...this would be all about being elevated by the atmosphere of reverence and awe...without being troubled by theological jargon and mumbo-jumbo which careful thinking might reject. It would be a Spiritual Switzerland. I prefer the glory, grandeur, reverence, and awe of the traditional service...rather than the 'Jesus is my buddy, show-up in shorts and a t-shirt, praise-song, hippie reefer-madness'. 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5guVydW7w&NR=1 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i6...eature=related 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&NR=1 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDqL...eature=related

In a sense...I desire a Minimalist Humanistic Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Theocracy. The United Nations and the City States need to be purified and reformed if we are to achieve a Perfected Solar System Inhabited by Perfected Human Beings...without eugenics or coercion. I want a Solar System Exorcism...to rid this Solar System of the worst Human and Non-Human malevolent beings...without harming them. Some of these beings...I fear...are Playing God...and Using God's Name in Vain. But what do I know?

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

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Old 03-12-2010, 04:46 PM   #34
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Today I wish to focus on the 'Great Commission' in Matthew 28:19-20: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

What did Jesus tell His followers to teach all nations? "To observe all things whatever I have commanded you."

Was Jesus a Red Letter Christian?? Indeed! He was the first! He was, and is, the CEO! Have His 'followers' followed His clear instructions? In most cases no! Why is this? Does this constitute insubordination? There may be some surprises in the hereafter! More importantly, what are we going to do to correct this failure to carry out a direct order by our Commanding Officer???

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:10 PM   #35
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The church's one foundation 'tis Jesus Christ her Lord! Are the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost in your church? If not, why not? Who's church is it, anyway? Are most, if not all, sermons preached from the words of Christ? If not, why not? Ask the hard questions. Get to the bottom of this thing! The answer seems to be blowing in the wind…judging from all of the hot air you are likely to encounter…

It’s sort of like inviting a living President of the United States to a meeting of “supporters” and then seating him at the rear of the auditorium, and having other people give their speeches praising the name of the President, but without asking the President to be the keynote speaker! The name of Jesus gets praised to highest heaven, but the words of Jesus are often figuratively seated at the back of the church! How rude! Was it something He said?

Is Christianity the Teachings of Jesus believed and lived…or is it a ritualized religion about Jesus…paying little attention to what the Second Person of the Trinity actually said?! I have sometimes gotten the impression that Christians feel that Jesus’ place is on the cross on the wall of the church. But that the important business of doctrine is best left to Moses, Paul and the theologians! Jesus is expected to be seen, but not heard, and certainly not obeyed! In fact, Jesus is supposed to obey US when we pray for something!

Every sermon should be preached from the Teachings of Jesus! But context is important! The Old Testament is contextual, but not normative. Acts to Revelation is likewise contextual, but does not have veto power over the words of Jesus Christ! The Apostle Paul is not the Fourth Person of the Godhead! Sorry Paul!

The following is an exchange between me and a New Testament theologian:

Me: There is a problem here! The Red-Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ take a back seat to Paul! Christianity needs to repent, and resurrect the words of Christ, and make them first and foremost! I have decided to follow Jesus!

Response: Christ should always be given precedence over Paul. However, until Pentecost the full meaning of Christ's sayings could not be perceived. The Holy Spirit confronted Paul and led him into a unique ministry of interpretation and explanation. Because of his training it was given to Paul to explain what the atonement meant. This could not be done until after the atonement was made, i.e., until after Christ died. The primary enquiry of all intelligent souls is, 'How can I be right with my Creator?' It is only Paul who fully spells out the way with its root and its fruit. The great tragedy of even modern evangelicals is that salvation in its historical and objective senses is too often obscured. A closer attention to the writings of Paul could prevent this tragic loss.

Me: Thank-you for your thoughtful answer. But it is a classic example of "the Teachings of Jesus are lacking." I get the picture of someone who is befuddled (Jesus), and needs help with this and that from their attendant (Paul). Did the 2nd person of the Trinity not say everything of importance that needed to be said? Did He need someone to clean up after Him, and set the record straight?

Response: It is the Holy Spirit who decided that the teachings of Christ needed to be supplemented and therefore our NT does not stop at John 21. It doesn't detract from what Jesus said at all. May I recommend you compare what you can find about the meaning of the Cross from the Gospels with what you can find in the later books inspired by the Spirit of Christ.

The following is a different response by another theologian to essentially the same comment:

Thank-you for your observations. You could have added that in the creeds of the Church, starting with the Apostle’s Creed, the only mention of the historical Jesus is that he died. Zero reference to anything he taught. We need the teaching of the man and not all this rubbish taught about the man. Your suggestion is so simple, so powerful. Do it!

And as they say…“the rest is history!” So…ladies and gentlemen…prepare yourselves to hear…the rest of His-story!
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:16 PM   #36
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This website is the result of my conviction that the words which are printed in red letters in a red letter edition of the Bible are fundamental. This, I suppose, is a more refined fundamentalism of sorts, but without all the negative baggage! When the word “fundamentalism” is used, many people think of militants marching in the streets shouting slogans, waving flags, and brandishing grenade launchers! One gets the picture that a fundamentalist is interested only in teaching and enforcing…not reasoning and learning!

On the other hand, isn’t it important to have a basic formulation of truth, including psychology, ethics, and spirituality? It is impossible to properly play a baseball game without rules and referees. It is also impossible to properly live life without a basic system of psychology, ethics, and spirituality. Ideally, the standard should be historical, include the essentials, and exclude the non-essentials!

The Constitution of the United States is a very simple and concise document! In fact, it is mostly structural and procedural in nature. On the other hand, the Christian Constitution, if you will, has historically consisted of all 66 canonical books of the Bible, with all words carrying equal weight and importance. This has created legion numbers of theologies and churches! It has been a Weapon of Mass Confusion! A real Loose Canon! Ex Cathedra proclamations have been necessary to maintain ecclesiastical law and order! Atrocities have even been perpetrated against those with differing convictions! Evangelism has been conducted with the torch and the sword, in God‘s name! If you can’t convince them…torture and kill them!

Liberalism has sought to abort these exegetical monstrosities and diabolical administrative practices, but all too often destroys the mother instead! The whole Bible is often mockingly rejected privately, while being publicly damned with faint praise! It is reminiscent of drilling a hole in your own lifeboat!

Fundamentalist Christians and Evangelicals have labored valiantly to maintain the doctrinal integrity of all 66 books in a harmonious unity! This only works if there are strong, charismatic leaders who accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, get rid of Mr. In Between, and all those who dare question the authority of the church hierarchy and it‘s interpretations and applications of scripture!

Put bluntly, I believe that the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus Christ are fundamental, and that the rest of scripture is important, but NOT fundamental! It is contextual and illuminating, but not authoritative! Is that heresy? To Churchianity…yes! To Jesus Christ…no! Who’s side are you on? Choose you this day who you will serve!
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:19 PM   #37
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The question, "what would Jesus do?" or WWJD, is a popular one. It is a helpful ethical guide under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, there is an even more important question, I believe, "what did Jesus say?" When we find out, then it is up to us to do what Jesus said. It's almost too simple! Obviously real-life challenges are not so simple, but the words of Jesus, illuminated by careful-prayerful study and the Holy Spirit, provide an ethical-spiritual home base where we can formulate our positive responses to the challenges and perplexities of modern life!

The Teachings of Jesus have something for everyone! Most of the words of Jesus can be easily understood by a child, yet some of the words of Jesus continue to challenge the world’s sharpest minds! When reading the sayings of Christ…if the saying fits…apply it! If not…move on, and consider that particular saying later. In other words, do not destroy yourself or others with something you don’t understand, or which does not apply to the given situation!

We are not to imitate Jesus. This would be similar to imitating a President of the United States. If you are not the President, then imitating the President leads to inappropriate behavior! We all know people who act like God, don’t we? Jesus was on a very special mission! I believe that this mission was to establish His teachings as the modus operandi for the Human Race! The Teachings of Jesus are an arrow (and an exclamation mark!)…but not a period. They are a beginning and a vehicle…but not a destination. They are to facilitate a proper and orderly search for truth and a better life. This is ongoing. It is never ending. It requires a lot of hard work! You can’t simply let go and let God!

Jesus was the Savior of the World, and the Benchmark of Humanity. This is something that you and I have not been called to do! Hence, WWJD in our particular situation is like comparing apples and oranges, or divinity and humanity! When we are trying to decide what to do, the question is WDJS, or What Did Jesus Say? And don’t forget to pray!
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:21 PM   #38
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The true purpose of non-corrupt religion is not to make us happy! At least not initially. It is to do the right thing! This may, at times, make us very unhappy! It can be difficult to deny self, figuratively take up your cross, and follow Jesus. Wrestling with reality is part of the deal. True religion is not the opiate of the people! It is often just the opposite! If it sounds and feels good…don’t believe it! You are probably in the wrong church!

I once had a philosophy teacher who warned us that his class was not designed to make us happy! It was to teach us something. He further said that if we wanted to be happy…we should drop-out, move to Oregon…and smoke pot! This teacher was later arrested for having intimate relations with a minor! He had a minor legal problem, to say the least! And after he got out of jail, he undoubtedly got to travel and meet new people! Maybe he moved to Oregon and smoked pot! Might as well…the rest of his life had gone to pot! I hope the teacher learned his lesson!

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Old 03-29-2010, 07:24 PM   #39
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The words of Jesus are not isolated from the rest of scripture, but they are central to scripture. Each and every Bible study and sermon should be centered in the words of Jesus! It's not about excluding the rest of the Bible, but rather about understanding the whole Bible by placing the Teachings of Jesus front and center, where they belong!

I must confess that the God of the Old Testament and the book of Revelation, is often not the God that I believe in and love. I prefer the God revealed by Jesus. And doesn’t this representation imply a limited God? This gets God off the hook (if God needs to be gotten off the hook) on the suffering question, and also regarding a delayed (by our reckoning) second coming. Why does God have to be all-mighty? Isn’t most-mighty good enough? Aren’t we sometimes a bit demanding and unrealistic in our God-expectations? Isn’t this a major reason for agnosticism and atheism?

An ideal method of study is to take your favorite red letter, cross referenced version of the Bible, and read the red lettered portions, in context, and read all cross referenced texts in their contexts. The Teachings of Jesus are to the rest of the Bible what the Constitution of the United States is to the Federalist Papers. The first is normative standard, and the second is context and clarification. Don’t make things more complex than they need to be! Let the Bible be its own interpreter, with the Holy Spirit as your guide.

Try reading the four Gospels straight through two or three times. Then read just the red letter portions straight through two or three times. Then search out all of the cross referenced texts throughout the Bible, and highlight them. Then read all of these highlighted texts straight through, from Genesis to Revelation. Do this two or three times. At some point in this process, the Holy Spirit will come streaming through the windows of your soul, and you will see the light! You may very well see it a lot more clearly than I do! I’m just a goofy clown, waving a sign, and trying to point others in the right direction! I’m also a bit of a hypocrite! I haven’t arrived, and don’t expect to anytime soon!

It makes me tired just typing these marching orders! I must confess, I think I have the overall idea right, but I find it difficult to be a Bible scholar. It takes both perspiration and inspiration! To become disillusioned with the old way of relating to the Bible, and then to get inspired with the new way can give one a spiritual whiplash! Fasten your seatbelts and put your headrest up!

Lastly, integrate all of the above into everything! This isn't easy, and it's not for wimps! The texts are ancient and we live in a modern world which is becoming more complex, perplexing and dangerous by the millisecond! But if the principles and concepts of the Teachings of Jesus are not integrated into our modern world, we face negative consequences of truly biblical proportions...
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:30 PM   #40
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What is the Gospel? Is it the Good News? Are the Teachings of Jesus Good News, Good Advice, or both? Are the Teachings of Jesus the Gospel? Do we need to read Paul to find out what the Gospel is? Does the Great Commission refer to the Teachings of Jesus…the writings of Paul…the whole Bible…or all of the above?

The Good Advice in the Teachings of Jesus is the Good News! Churchianity is condemned and Christianity is established by Christ! No more religious hoops to jump through! Just be just! That is both Good Advice and Good News!

Many Christians have been pressured into saying, “I know that I am saved!” But if you know that you are saved, why struggle to do the right thing, and fight the evil thing?! This may not be popular, but I believe that every day we are fighting for our physical and spiritual lives!

It should be obvious by now, that I believe the Teachings of Jesus to be self-sufficient and self-evident, and that they are the message to be spread throughout the world as a precursor to eschatological occurrences! When the teachings and character of Jesus are internalized in a critical mass of Christians, a tipping point will be reached, and the battle between good and evil will intensify! All Hell may break loose before we experience Heaven on Earth! The agony and the ecstasy! The first must precede the second!
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Old 03-30-2010, 05:00 PM   #41
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It's tempting to turn a focus on the Teachings of Jesus into a harangue! To lash out! To use a phrase of Christ's as a club to hit people over the head with, to promote our pet political or religious cause! But I feel that it's important to study all of Christ's words in an attitude of reverence and awe, and to come up to a higher level of spirituality, and then implement the underlying principles and concepts throughout society in an evolutionary, rather than in a revolutionary way. This is the mustard seed conspiracy! It consists of the seeds of greatness!

Christians should integrate rather than segregate! Christians should not be stand-offish! Christians should be “in the world, but not of the world.” The Teachings of Jesus should be communicated with kindness and sound-bites rather than with cold and arrogant sermonizing. Profound principles, concepts, and facts obtained in secular society should be integrated with the words of Jesus to give them an even more profound impact! The atheist scientists and philosophers don’t know what they are missing! They may have the facts, but they need the Spirit too!

Jesus was accused of being "a glutton and a wine drinker, a friend of publicans and sinners!" I don’t think they were accusing Him of being a grape-juice drinker! He didn't spend all day in the synagogue! I find it helpful to contemplate Christ in a variety of settings. Theology should not be imprisoned within a church or university, but needs to be reflected upon and implemented in even the most unlikely environments. These diverse environments may include the boardroom, the racetrack, the laboratory, Washington D.C. and Las Vegas (where one might be a friend of Republicans and Sinners)!
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #42
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One by One

the prodigal sons return

the lost daughters are found

One by One


Christians should not compromise Christ

for fear of not being accepted in the world


Christ is not of this world but was just passing through

and so are we - just passing through


this is temporal

it will not last

but pass like a leaf in the wind



Christ the Conquer of Death is Living

the Trust in the Name is a Lifeline just a Heartbeat away

for it is hard to walk the road alone


He walked with the Cross on the Way of Suffering

so to shine as a Light for the lost Souls in the shadows of Spirit


So change yourselves and then the world will come around to the path of peace


One by One

and the rest will follow
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:09 AM   #43
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Thank-you RedeZra.

Much has been made of Apostolic Succession in Christian history! That Christ declared to Peter that He would build His church on him. That Peter was the first Pope, and that each of his successors have been the supreme representatives of Christ on earth, indeed, Vicars of Christ!

A rival view, popularized recently by Dan Brown in his book and the subsequent motion picture, The Da Vinci Code, suggests that Jesus had children, and that His offspring are the true representatives of Christ on earth...

Allow me to suggest another possibility! That the individuals and organizations throughout Christian history who have placed the Teachings of Jesus first and foremost, both in word and deed, have been the true representatives of Christ on earth! Not by declaration or birthright, but by the content of their characters! This last option could overlap the first two. But in the final analysis, by their fruits you shall know them. Were, and are, they Christ-like? Did Christ will that His church be built upon His teachings? I think so!

Remember in the movie, The Da Vinci Code, as Sophie, Langdon, Silas, Remy, and Teabing are leaving the hangar in the limo at the airport in England, after hiding from the English police, Teabing winks and comments, “people rarely notice things right in front of their eyes!”

I am going to make the bold assertion that the Holy Grail, that people have been seeking for centuries, has been hidden in plain sight for 2,000 years! The Teachings of Jesus are the Holy Grail! What is more holy and sacred, that Jesus Christ has left the world, than His Teachings?! His Blood Red Letter Teachings! The Holy Grail or Sang-real, meaning Royal Blood, is more than any possible blood-line of Christ! I believe that it is primarily the words of Christ, which reveal the character of Christ, or the essence of Christ! The words are neither masculine or feminine! They are neither Pagan or Pauline! They are Divine! The bloodline question is of “relative” importance! Any purported relative or representative of Christ does not have veto-power over the words of Christ! No one has veto-power over the words of Christ! No one except the Jesus Seminar, that is!

On the other hand, does the term “Royal Blood” imply that Christ was of royal Egyptian lineage? When Joseph and Mary fled with Jesus to Egypt, did they stay with family? The wise-men from the east worshiped him as royalty! Was Jesus a Pharaoh? Is this where a modern quest for the historical Jesus might lead? Were the wise-men wise to who Jesus really was…or am I just a wise-guy? The Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees thought Jesus was a wise-guy! And they were right! They just didn’t know how wise He really was!

I am going to keep attempting to get you to study for yourself, rather than tell you what to think! I don’t really know what I think most of the time, so who am I to tell you? I truly believe that at least 38.7 percent of what I have typed on this site is pure unmitigated poppycock! Just don’t ask me to itemize the 38.7 percent! If you figure it out…tell me and we’ll both know! It’ll be our little secret…OK? I tend to be rather suspicious, especially of myself. So, use this site to start your thinking process…not to end it! This subject is too important, and you are too mature (hopefully) for spoon feeding! But it can be frustrating and exhausting! And please…don't forget to pray!
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:19 AM   #44
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Jesus taught mostly in nature. The most inspirational environment is nature! I believe that the Holy Spirit can best get through to us when we contemplate eternal things in nature. The best place to have church is not in church! The best church is no church! And didn’t Jesus tell us, in essence, not to go to church, in Matthew 6:5,6? He told us to pray privately, didn’t He?

Having said that, I am torn! I love architecturally and acoustically inspiring churches! Especially while experiencing sacred music in these vast spaces! Singing the great hymns of the church with congregation, choir, organ and orchestra…as the sunlight streams through the stained glass windows is truly a mountain top experience! I believe that artistic expression and creativity are hugely important parts of life and Christianity! They lift us up!

However, I am often troubled by the price and the pride! Is Jesus impressed? I sometimes imagine the stained glass Jesus with tears streaming down His face because of being ignored, despised and rejected by His professed followers! Would those in Darfur be impressed? Should we build more orphanages than churches? I once stood at the altar of a magnificent Gothic cathedral, reading the story of the rich young ruler from a large leather-bound Bible on a golden pedestal. For a moment, I thought the Word of God clashed with the House of God! Are churches sometimes places where there is a form of godliness without the power? Where people stand, sit, bend, nod, and are politely kind to God? Also, the message and music are often determined by those with the dough…not by those in the know!

Obviously, when it's cold, dark and rainy, it's nearly impossible to have a religious service outside! I guess we need church buildings, but we don't need jeweled, gold plated shrines, bedeviled with hideous gargoyles! We need the grand and glorious, but with sound and simple construction, so as not to become slaves to buildings and bills. Think minimalist cathedral! Was that an oxymoron? Perhaps…but sometimes I'm an oxymoron! And don't forget the soup kitchen! And please…pretty please…don’t forget to pray!

Also, church is not for everyone! The church is not the very gate of Heaven! The Christian Church is not Salvation4Sale! At least it shouldn't be! Church may, or may not, be necessary for balanced psychology, ethics and spirituality. Sometimes church can even make things worse! On the other hand, those who have left the church have often jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire…and had their fingers burnt right up to their arm pits!

Finally, remember what Jesus said to the disciples when they were admiring a church building...
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:22 AM   #45
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What must we do to be saved?

"But when I, the Messiah, shall come in my glory, and all the angels with me, then I shall sit upon my throne of glory. And all the nations shall be gathered before me. And I will separate the people as a shepherd separates sheep from the goats, and place the sheep at my right hand, and the goats at my left.

"Then I, the King, shall say to those at my right, 'Come, blessed of my Father, into the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was a stranger and you invited me into your homes; naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison, and you visited me'

"Then these righteous ones will reply, 'Sir, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you anything to drink? Or a stranger, and help you? Or naked, and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?' And I, the King, will tell them, 'When you did it to these my brothers you were doing it to me!'

"Then I will turn to those on my left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry and you wouldn't feed me; thirsty, and you wouldn't give me anything to drink; a stranger, and you refused me hospitality; naked, and you wouldn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'

"Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?' And I will answer, 'When you refused to help the least of these my brothers, you were refusing help to me.' And they shall go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into everlasting life." Matthew 25:31-46 Living Bible.

Did Jesus forget about the substitutionary atonement? What about John 3:16? Clue: read John 3:1-21, not just verse 16! The method of salvation presented by Paul is quite different than the method presented by Jesus! Why is this? Who do you believe? On Christ the solid rock I stand! All other ground is sinking sand…

Perhaps the above is part of the reason why many Christians accept Jesus as savior, but reject Him as Lord!
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:35 AM   #46
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The following is a concept derived from the principles and concepts contained in the Teachings of Jesus, but not stated directly. It is simply something I have found to be helpful regarding the ethical pursuit and use of money.

I call it the 50-50 rule, derived from 'love your neighbor as yourself' and 'do unto others as you would have others do unto you.' Basically, one makes as much money as possible in the most ethical way possible, and then sets aside 50 percent of the gain for taxes and charity. Then, with the remaining 50 percent, they live a comfortable, though not ostentatious life style, and use a significant portion of this 50 percent to make even more money! Then, this additional profit again becomes subject to the same rule. Finally, when one dies, the estate is divided, with 50 percent going to taxes and charity, and 50 percent to relatives, etc.

We should avoid rich versus poor class-warfare, jealousy and hatred, or feelings of superiority! We all have a part to play in this vast mosaic of life. The poor should not neglect to learn how the rich make money, and the rich should not neglect the poor…regardless of the reasons for their poverty!

It's my way of saying that one can have their cake and eat it too! Perhaps it is a rationalization…but I don't think so! I believe that God is reasonable, and that sincere attempts to do the right thing are received with joy in Heaven!
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:40 AM   #47
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Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.” In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:1-21 NIV
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:12 PM   #48
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What about positive thinking and self esteem? Are they in harmony with the Teachings of Jesus? Are they a new religion which is out of harmony with the Teachings of Jesus? What is the underlying principle in the Teachings of Jesus? Is it positive thinking and self esteem, or something else?

Without going into a proof text rant, I must say that I find positive thinking much more biblical than self esteem! Faith is closely related to positive thinking, and is well thought of in scripture in general, and the Teachings of Jesus in particular! On the other hand, self esteem is closely related to pride, and is decidedly not well thought of in scripture in general, and the Teachings of Jesus in particular! The subject of self esteem is a real “mine” field! An extreme rendition of the joining of positive thinking and self esteem is “I Am God!” which is not something that the Bible encourages its readers to go around proclaiming! And by the way…Shirley…with all due respect…I don’t think you’re God!

The problem is self delusion and self centeredness! Not facing reality is a form of lying…to yourself! Self exaltation is self centered! Self degradation is also self centered! The religion contained in the Teachings of Jesus is a religion of responsibility! To be responsible is to face reality, and see it clearly, and then formulate a responsible course of action, and then to implement this plan. It is duty centered. The focus is external…not internal! When someone lives responsibly, the byproduct is appropriate positive AND negative thinking (which includes both faith and doubt), and an appropriate self image! They are the fruit, not the root!

In other words, positive delusion is not the solution to negative delusion…and self exaltation is not the solution to self degradation! Responsibility trumps both positive thinking and self esteem! The religion of positive thinking and self esteem is not the religion of the Teachings of Jesus! The religion of responsibility is the religion of the Teachings of Jesus!

Please don't misunderstand my seemingly harsh stance on positive thinking and self esteem! A negative thinking and self degrading Churchianity opened the door wide open to these teachings! They have come as a breath of fresh air to millions of people around the world! But some have found Peale appalling and Paul appealing! Positive thinking linked with self-esteem is corrective, but should not be considered to be normative! A religion of responsibility, as found in the Teachings of Jesus is, in my view, the normative standard!
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:18 PM   #49
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I have so much to say, but I would like to know that someone is listening out there in cyberspace. Please take a moment to send me a message, and to set me straight, if necessary! Also, study the Teachings of Jesus, in the context of all of scripture, for yourself! I'm just another website writer. I am transitory, but I have a feeling that the Teachings of Jesus will be around for a long, long time! And that they will be just as true and relevant hundreds of years from now as they are today! This provides a very necessary continuity and stability to our spiritual quest!

Throughout the centuries there have been countless religious wars, both physical and spiritual in nature! But if you look closely in the Old Testament, after studying the Teachings of Jesus, you can see the message of Jesus extending back to Genesis! This is the Word of God! You can also see the “God of this world,” or Satan, at work as well! Sometimes people get God all mixed up with Satan, especially in the Old Testament! By their fruits you shall know them. This applies even to God! Similarly, the message of Jesus can be seen in the New Testament, extending to Revelation and beyond! Jesus is the gold standard, in character, history and scripture!

Also, simply communing with God in nature, exercising, and getting a good nights sleep, is probably 90% of the spiritual battle! Sometimes theological discussions, even about the Teachings of Jesus, can give one a headache! People will always see things differently and often passionately so! And doesn't that make life interesting?!
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:09 PM   #50
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Sing this great hymn of the church a capella! Then, find a recording of Upon This Rock by John Ness Beck! Try to find one with brass, percussion, organ, and choir! It rocks!

The Church's one foundation is Jesus Christ her Lord;
she is his new creation by water and the word:
from heaven he came and sought her to be his holy bride;
with his own blood he bought her, and for her life he died.

Elect from every nation, yet one o'er all the earth,
her charter of salvation, one Lord, one faith, one birth;
one holy Name she blesses, partakes one holy food,
and to one hope she presses, with every grace endued.

Though with a scornful wonder men see her sore oppressed,
by schisms rent asunder, by heresies distressed;
yet saints their watch are keeping, their cry goes up, "How long?"
and soon the night of weeping shall be the morn of song.

Mid toil and tribulation, and tumult of her war
she waits the consummation of peace for evermore;
till with the vision glorious her longing eyes are blessed,
and the great Church victorious shall be the Church at rest.

Yet she on earth hath union with God, the Three in One,
and mystic sweet communion with those whose rest is won.
O happy ones and holy! Lord, give us grace that we
like them, the meek and lowly, on high may dwell with thee!

Words: Samuel John Stone (1839-1900)
Music: Aurelia, Samuel Sebastian Wesley (1810-1876)

I couldn't find the version I wanted...but here is an alternate one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gShdy...eature=related I've sung in hundreds of services in this church. This is a ministry which should be studied very, very carefully. There is much which is good...and then there's the rest of the story.

Here is an alternative wording to the hymn tune Aurelia, commonly known as The Church's One Foundation:

Live out Thy life within me! O Jesus, King of kings!
Be Thou Thyself the answer to all my questionings!
Live out Thy life within me! In all things have thy way!
I, the transparent medium! Thy glory to display!

The temple has been yielded, and purified of sin!
Let Thy Shekinah glory now shine forth from within!
And all the earth keep silence! The body hence-forth be
Thy silent, gentle servant, moved only as by Thee!

Its members every moment, held subject to Thy call!
Ready to have Thee use them, or not be used at all!
Held without restless longing, or strain, or stress, or fret,
Or chafings at Thy dealings, or thoughts of vain regret!

But restful, calm, and pliant, from bend and bias free!
Awaiting Thy decision, when Thou hast need of me!
Live out Thy life within me! O Jesus, King of Kings!
Be Thou the glorious answer to all my questionings!

Tune: Aurelia by Samuel Wesley (1810-1876)
Words: Frances Ridley Havergal (1836-1879)

If you haven't already noticed, hymn tunes are really poems! It's fun to just read them as poetry, without singing them! I think so, anyway!

Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 04-02-2010 at 07:20 AM.
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