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Old 09-24-2008, 02:18 PM   #1
Kerry Cassidy
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Default The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

We received this important email from Dr. Richard Sauder today. I am not inviting debate here, just wanted you to be aware there's a different way of looking at things.

This is only the beginning of what will begin to take place once the truth of the years of hidden government secrecy finally OUTS... People will be called to testify as to their roles. Part of the reason Project Camelot has been allowed to exist is that these people who worked in black projects to feed their ambition and their families.. and who felt they were doing the right thing, will eventually realize the extent of their wrong choices. Whether "the people" are able to forgive them, and limit vengeance will be partially due to projects like ours that began to reveal the truth to the people. Knowledge brings understanding. I would stand on the side of Amnesty for the people who hid while the world starved... Some may not be so generous.

Richard Sauder is speaking for the people and for disclosure. In my view, those who are still holding back the truth, even while parading themselves as whistle blowers need to realize that they are not free of responsibility to the greater whole. Indeed, theirs may be the final deceit.

Kerry Cassidy
Project Camelot/Project Avalon
'dare to speak'

***

Begin forwarded message:

From: Richard Sauder <dr_samizdat@yahoo.com>
Date: September 23, 2008 12:04:53 PM PDT
To: Kerry Cassidy <kerrylyncassidy@netzero.net>, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan <support@projectcamelot.org>
Subject: Henry Deacon's and John Lear's departure from the Avalon forum
Reply-To: dr_samizdat@yahoo.com

Hi Kerry and Bill,

I read your post about the Avalon Forum and I understand and respect your position.

Having said that, here is the reality: 1) we have LARGE NUMBERS of missing people in this country. It is one of the most seriously unreported stories in the world. 2) We have TRILLIONS of missing dollars in our economy. It is one of the most unreported stories in the world. 3) We have hundreds, if not thousands, of clandestine, Top Secret, Black Operations by the CIA, NSA, NRO, DoD, DoE, DIA, ONI, USAF, US Navy, etc. 4) We have scores, if not hundreds, of highly secret, extremely classified underground and undersea bases. 5) A growing body of evidence indicates that there is probably a massive, secret space program, with a huge, clandestine armada in orbit around the Earth, and, it seems, maybe even secret bases on Mars and the Moon, and expeditions to other planets elsewhere in the Milky Way galaxy.

And then people such as John Lear and Henry Deacon, who have spent their career working in the Black World for these agencies, come on a forum such as Project Avalon, and when they are sharply questioned they object to having to directly answer to the hoi-poloi ? They made lots of money, which WE paid via extortionate taxation and corporate corruption, and they had long careers in the Black World which WE unknowingly funded through our own sweat and blood, and then they object to having to answer a few direct questions from the rest of us about what they did and what they know ?

Well, too bad !! They absolutely owe us the truth, the whole, unvarnished truth, and they owe it to us right now. It is our absolute right to directly question them, and their duty to directly answer us. Huge numbers of people are dead and missing, trillions of dollars have been stolen behind our backs, a secret space fleet is orbiting over our heads, we don't even know the scale of the ghastly horrors in the underground and undersea bases, and they think they are doing us a big "favor" if they give a brief interview or two, or deign to say a few sentences to us about what they have spent the last 50 years doing ?

I wasn't born yesterday, and neither were a whole lot of other people on the forum.

Michael St. Clair is another story entirely. He's very open and engages in dialog on a very wide range of topics. He has a whole different vibration.

As for the two troublemakers that showed up on Michael St. Clair's thread, they may have been Feds. You can't put up a public internet forum without the "alphabet soup" interfering with their "agents provocateurs". It's inevitable in this age of internet surveillance. I would add that your moderator and Susan, the "eXchanger" did a good job of handling them for Michael.

kind regards,
Richard Sauder

p.s. "Did you know you can boost your car's mileage with water!"
http://tinyurl.com/gas-buster
http://tinyurl.com/water-for-fuel

**********************************************
__________________
..."if you build it they will come"
Field of Dreams

Last edited by Kerry Cassidy; 09-24-2008 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:08 PM   #2
stefaan
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Amnesty worked in South-Africa and other places like Rwanda(?)
If it helps a witness to come out and tell his truth. Why not?
But they should really tell everything, not withhold anything, to diserve amnesty.

Did vengeance ever do some good?
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:37 PM   #3
Gale
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Quote:
I would stand on the side of Amnesty for the people who hid while the world starved... Some may not be so generous.
Amnesty?
Amnesty only for those who have an honest change of heart and truly regret but an open ended Amnesty to blanket a whole section of wrong doing without regret, no.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:07 PM   #4
ArthurAvalon
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

"And then people such as John Lear and Henry Deacon, who have spent their career working in the Black World for these agencies, come on a forum such as Project Avalon, and when they are sharply questioned they object to having to directly answer to the hoi-poloi ? They made lots of money, which WE paid via extortionate taxation and corporate corruption, and they had long careers in the Black World which WE unknowingly funded through our own sweat and blood, and then they object to having to answer a few direct questions from the rest of us about what they did and what they know ?" Richard Sauder
Sorry. John Lear and Henry Deacon? Please leave them alone. Mr. John Lear and people like him are our heros and warriors. We completely protest the above statement. Somebody so amateur to this arena would say such outrageous things as above...
Please understand the intricacy and tight security and censorship issues involved for disclosures.. This kind of slanderous and character assassinating statements make it harder for general whistle blowers, however great they may be.
Aurion Mission.-Arthur Avalon.
P.s: We at AM are not feds or any other sort of insiders.. We and mainly the person(captain) behind it is an outsider 100%. Neither Alien nor God... We all just want to know everything and want others to know everything.. So we need help at AM if U also wanna know all.. But we do not argue or communicate with those who oppose people like John Lear, Richard Hoagland etc..
YOU REALLY WANNA KNOW THE TRUTH? O.K...
Read the Lion Path books and all other books of a scientist and a medium..So far according to AM The Most Genius and an almost Demi-God?
MUSAIOS Dr. Charles MusŤs (Musaios)
One of the top notch ground breaking scientist and a priest of the highest order as we believe at AM.
Lets tread the LION’S PATH and our GOD IS THE SUN GOD and lets get to the SUN.
SIRIUS and ORION and beyond..
We can break all time gates in multiverses..
So please lets not play with this separatism, nepotism, us vs them…
and let us all stay together to reach a critical mass..
Lets do it… Not alone but together..
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL..
aint’ it true?
AM..
AA-Arthur Avalon..
P.s: Mission captain had the author name Arthur Avalon before starting AM and now its Aurion for Aurion Mission…

Last edited by ArthurAvalon; 09-24-2008 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Amnesty.

Being stripped of their power will be punishment enough.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:36 PM   #6
ArthurAvalon
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Reply to BaggyWrinkle from Arthur Avalon-Aurion Mission.
"Being stripped of their power will be punishment enough"
The World Governments, Military, MIB, NASA and "all" space agencies and academies, all defense departments, all the liars in this field.. in WWW - .stripped of their power will be punishment enough indeed.. For lay scientists and officials(insiders) its a taboo as they are being mind controlled with a powder in their ether/air/work space and EM pulses and waves to control us all and push us all into taboo, tamas and a numb phenomenon etc..
which had and might always prevent us from delving into missing screw phenomenon or missing link phenomenon but leave us all in despair with the numbness phenomenon..
Thats what we are left with..
So we need revolution/s-- movements to curb these evil forces ruling and controlling us once and for all..
AM.
Yes. Bravo..
AM/AA.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:07 PM   #7
lohiaaditya
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

I didnt know that Mr.John Lear had worked in Black Projects? Can anyone confirm it? I doubt he has from what I know him. He is just a man who has immense knowledge and does great research. He had a couple of incidents here and there with UFO's but nothing more than that. He worked in the military if I m right. So I think to say that he has worked in Black Projects would be unfair on him, I also know that he openly talks about things and explains them in great detail, his views on another forum. To say something to such a person is the worst thing anyone can do. From what I get, he is a great and an honest man. Please correct me if I m wrong.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:10 PM   #8
spaceman44
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

well said Kerry, I and many other agree entirely.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lohiaaditya View Post
I didnt know that Mr.John Lear had worked in Black Projects? Can anyone confirm it? I doubt he has from what I know him.
John's dad had most of the contacts. Some of it rubbed off by association, I'm sure.

It is also known that John Lear flew for Air America which
was a CIA asset.

He does indeed know people and is much more than your
garden variety armchair researcher.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:31 PM   #10
lohiaaditya
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
John's dad had most of the contacts. Some of it rubbed off by association, I'm sure.

It is also known that John Lear flew for Air America which
was a CIA asset.

He does indeed know people and is much more than your
garden variety armchair researcher.
Ok. I get the point that he has contacts, but that would not mean that he has 'worked' in Black Projects as implied by Mr. Sauder. To work in a black project and to know someone who has, I think are completely two different things. And nevertheless, I know another forum where he does answer everything that has been asked of him as long as its polite and dignified. He provides everything that he knows. Now you wouldnt expect a person to talk about private relationships etc but to my knowledge at the Open Minds Forum he does talk everything. So why is he not serving any purpose for that matter? He is answering questions, he is sharing his views.

He flew for Air America, but that does not mean he could know information that is sensitive, and nevertheless he has said a lot in his interviews.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lohiaaditya View Post
He flew for Air America, but that does not mean he could know information that is sensitive, and nevertheless he has said a lot in his interviews.
My brother, also a pilot, has met John. Said he's a nice fella.

It is anyone's guess if Mr Lear has actually held a clearance. It is my belief that his forte is being personable and easy to talk to. It is amazing what one
can learn over a beer on layover in Cairo...

Air America just places him in position for those friendly beers to occur...

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 09-24-2008 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:45 PM   #12
lohiaaditya
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Well, I still hold my judgment but I will bow out of this. But it was a healthy debate. I am probably not in a position to debate for his side, although I am convinced he is already doing a lot as a whistle blower. Check his Open Minds Forum section. Only after that would it be fair to criticize him.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Vengeance is pointless if they really "repent their sins" so to speak, and came out with a real good help.
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Old 09-24-2008, 07:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

This Forum follows the Law of Allowance, does it not?

If anyone decides to post information, following the minimal guidelines, and then, decides to leave the Forum, that is that person's prerogative.

Unless Richard Sauder wants to contact John Lear or "Henry Deacon" in private to determine why either of them has left the Avalon Forum, then he is "guilty" of imputing motives for such departures.

One who works in black projects has many "controls" to observe in communicating to the general public.
None of us in the general public arena knows what threats/risks such a "whistleblower" is facing, or what consequences may occur, should he/she not "toe the line."

Walk two miles in his moccasins before criticizing another brave. (Chief Blackhawk)

Personally, I will miss Henry Deacon's contributions, as I will John Lear's. Perhaps, when the "pressure" lets up, each will reappear on the Avalon's horizon of hope.

I am Kayak.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

I have gone back and forth in my mind about the "responsibility" issue regarding people who come forth to tell of their experiences, and at this point I don't think they are responsible to tell others everything... or even anything. If they do tell some of what they know, I am grateful. If they have reasons for not telling all they know, I cannot judge what those reasons are.

If I were John Lear or Henry Deacon I would probably have left this forum also after the rudeness that was displayed. Men who have been through these experiences don't need to be nipped at and barked at by people who think they have a "right to know" or presume to judge something they have no direct experience with. This is one of the reasons why more of these men don't tell all.

Many of these men begin their careers thinking they are serving the greater good. By the time they realize they aren't sure what the greater good IS they are often too deeply involved. If they decide to finally get out they are lucky to get out with their lives. They certainly don't need a bunch of rabid vengeance seekers, blamers and people who don't accept responsibility for their own ignorance blaming them for situations that have been a reality for many, many decades or centuries.

If you seek knowledge, don't bite the hand that helps you acquire it. They don't need you. You do need their knowledge, or at least you seem to profess that you desire knowledge. Maybe there is a good reason not to tell the average person all the bizarre manipulations and lies they have been fed their entire lives.

We are each on our own path, alone, learning at our own pace. We are very lucky if we can cooperate with some people some of the time, but no one really OWES us anything.

Nancy

Last edited by NancyV; 11-09-2008 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:57 PM   #16
clarkkent
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

vengeance is bad. eye for an eye makes you blind yeah?

for me i think sauder has points to be sure, but none of the whistleblowers are in a court of law here, and anyone with a ounce of knowledge about human psychology can tell you that demanding and bullying people online to disclose info will only drive them away.

henry deacon is in bad shape i gather physically, so to badger an ill person who doesnt have to say a word, i think is pointless. if anything he wont divulge anything out of frustration at being told its owed to us.

again if this was court and legal proceedings were taking place sauder would be correct, these people owe society the truth, no matter what.

but again this is a forum and were quite lucky anyone goes out on a limb to tell us what 99% of our species is unaware of. getting on a high horse will only do a disservice to people who want more answers here.

-k
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #17
Richard T
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Perhaps a difference should be considered between vengeance and neutralization.

Nazi Germany was defeated but Nazi ideology was not neutralized.

And today, because those people who had ties with the movement, and who had ties with the economy of the elite, fascism is back on the forefront of the scene.

Nazi scientists were recuperated, Nazi supporters were given power, and that ugly mentality was allowed to go underground and prepare its next assault.

The fear of losing is extremely powerful. And it sways decision in favor of those whose mentality is to dominate. It seems that the only way the head of this ugly beast can be had is through the total loss of what is feared of being lost.

I am not talking vengeance but am talking check mate.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:56 AM   #18
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Peace is the only thing that would ever last
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry Cassidy View Post
We received this important email from Dr. Richard Sauder today. I am not inviting debate here, just wanted you to be aware there's a different way of looking at things.

This is only the beginning of what will begin to take place once the truth of the years of hidden government secrecy finally OUTS... People will be called to testify as to their roles. Part of the reason Project Camelot has been allowed to exist is that these people who worked in black projects to feed their ambition and their families.. and who felt they were doing the right thing, will eventually realize the extent of their wrong choices. Whether "the people" are able to forgive them, and limit vengeance will be partially due to projects like ours that began to reveal the truth to the people. Knowledge brings understanding. I would stand on the side of Amnesty for the people who hid while the world starved... Some may not be so generous.

Richard Sauder is speaking for the people and for disclosure. In my view, those who are still holding back the truth, even while parading themselves as whistle blowers need to realize that they are not free of responsibility to the greater whole. Indeed, theirs may be the final deceit.

Kerry Cassidy
Project Camelot/Project Avalon
'dare to speak'

***
***
When it comes to the "alphabet soup" agents in forums, they do have their "agendas" just
as the Bad ET's do that post in these forums. Amnesty for those that have a change of
"heart" is good. Those that are just trying for a "lighter sentence of guilt" I am sure will be
dealt with by the "powers that be" when that happens. I doubt it will be by an earthly
government though.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

I second that Norval.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:55 PM   #21
franzBardon
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... i'm not sure what to make of this new development... tones seems to have changed. somethings not right... definitely need to utilize strong discernment with this one.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:36 PM   #22
Richard T
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It seems pretty obvious that people, when they truly realize the extent of a lie, demand answers. When people are lied to, regardless of the level of the lie, whether it is in private life or in public, it is with the intend of manipulating to the one's own apparent benefit. withholding information is another form of lie which has for intent domination.

But if doubt is brought about certain people, doubt must exist in relation with everything they may have said.

Can anyone explain to me why disclosure would be allowed by way of whistle blowers? Why it would not be an orchestrated and controlled movement?

Of course, any disclosure has to be examined with the highest degree of discernment.

And if there is corroboration between parties, even then, those points onto which they agree must be examined with particular attention.

I feel that reality when it hits will be much grander and possibly quite different than the leads given.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

i have personally known someone in black ops and they did not just turn into a bad doer of deeds overnight. they are led down a path and only told certain things about what they are doing and they do it because they are led to believe it is for the good of the country. after they have been on many missions with others, they tend to loosen up with each other socially (over a few beers in cairo perhaps) and disclose what they know to each other. by then they get so far in that many are afraid for their lives, the lives of their loved ones etc and believe they have no where to go but with the flow.

let us not judge one's past as we are all guilty of not doing the right thing. they deserve whatever privacy that they set for themselves. if it wasn't for them, we would not have the pieces of the puzzle that we have now.

Namaste'
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:50 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

To Dr Sauder - I can see your argument and have some sympathy with what you write. However - these folk with as yet undisclosed information on huge revelations will hardly feel able to release their info if there is a posse of angry citizens ready and willing to make them run the gauntlet. I think these black ops people have a great deal to reconcile within themselves in terms of the wrong/misguided decisions and actions they have undertaken. Although time is of the essence - to not offer amnesty, and aggressively persecute these people until they make the disclosures the world needs/wants to hear is surely as destructive to honest, full and accurate reports as waterboarding is to pursuing 'terrorists'? Go gently sir..there surely is time enough.
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:09 PM   #25
Isa
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Default Re: The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

I am for amnesty also. I would hope that all are encouraged to speak up and out as much as possible. The more talking, the better! And as the info flies about, becoming more and more confusing and conflicting - whether lies or truth - the more we are pressed to rely on our own inner guidance and to develop our discernment skills. It is a wild dance, to be sure, and lively discussions about what is or isn't 'true' serves to launch the whole thing forward, but I see no benefit in vengeance.
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