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Old 02-19-2010, 11:33 AM   #126
greybeard
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

It all comes down to your spiritual goal.
If you believe in enlightenment -- free from ignorance, if your goal is enlightenment,
then its simple, not easy but simple.
Listen to a teacher either one who is currently on tis planet or one who attained that state before leaving this world.
They all say the same thing.

(The Self of the teacher and the Self of the student are the same ie Holy Spirit)

My current main teacher says
"Straight and narrow is the path, waste no time"

There may be many methods of being on the path but it is the same path in my opinion.

The spiritual circus (new age) leads no where.
Tried and tested, thousands of years of subjective experience, leads to Truth, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Not saying anything I post is right, just my understanding of this moment.

Regards Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:56 AM   #127
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It all comes down to your spiritual goal.
If you believe in enlightenment -- free from ignorance, if your goal is enlightenment,
then its simple, not easy but simple.

My current main teacher says
"Straight and narrow is the path, waste no time"

There may be many methods of being on the path but it is the same path in my opinion.

The spiritual circus (new age) leads no where.
Tried and tested, thousands of years of subjective experience, leads to Truth, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Not saying anything I post is right, just my understanding of this moment.

Regards Chris
Very well put Chris. Clear and concise and not stumbling over words games. I think ill write something on the words religion and spirituality as there (and always will be) different views about this. To me the first litmus test is regardless of terminology are they referring to a process that ultimately leads to love of the supreme person, i call Krishna. If yes, then either word will do.
If not, then no matter what word is used the process is itself flawed, but may still refer to itself as religion or spirituality. Hence the fads, cliques and movements throughout the ages fall inevitably by the wayside, because ultimately they are not nourishing the soul.
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Old 02-19-2010, 12:19 PM   #128
aroundthetable
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God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?
Well put Kriya.

Better people than i could answer all questions and bring freedom from all doubts, for that is the test of a process that works. So after many years of frustration, sadness, anxiety and misery, i eventually kind of sat myself down and said Ok God, ive had enough of this, ive been trying to figure it all out, ive been trying to 'save the world' and the result has been this sad individual now no use to anybody. I believe it was my first really sincere prayer. Somehow or another i felt better for it so i continued to practice thinking in this way, i slowly let go of my arrogance and i slowly let go of the feeling of personal responibilities for the worlds problems. Infact it was the suffering of animals that ultimately broke my spirit. Now i realise that as long as i do the right things myself ( no im not perfect and have no wish to be) the rest is Gods problem!!! I have been happier for this and have been able to bring some good things to the people i meet in my life.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:03 PM   #129
Frank Samuel
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Believe it or not in theology school we all debated everything specially the authenticity of our believes. Soon enough I discover that stepping away from organize religion gave me the freedom to explore the term God without organize religion imposing their views. Is like going to a mountain to meditate. The quietude of establishing a pure connection. The need for books and debates about God was over. We all are free to explore, our journey is long. It does not matter what theological believes you have if you have not transcended beyond your believes. In order words finding your true self is what matters. For too long humanity has been mislead and whether we like it or not organize religion share a lot of that burden. We have help the ptb to enslave humanity through keeping people control by a particular belief. The time to reclaim our sovereignty is now . I will not give a moment of my time to organize religion I have wasted too much of it already. The remainder of my life I want to spend it serving others instead of myself. By simply loving others without imposing my views. Time to go and do just that. No offense to anyone .
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:14 PM   #130
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Thanks for your kind words aroundthetable.

This next bit only applies to those serious about spiritual progress on the path to enlightenment, it may save you some time.

The Avatars / mystics told it as it is, no secrets, nothing held back.

There are those who talk about it and those who are it.
I can know about a cat but only the cat knows what it is.

My knowledge is mainly second hand but comes from reading and spending time with those who are in that state, some of my own experiences confirmed what they say is so.

At the final door of enlightenment, Dan Brown will not be there to help you through, numerology will not help, all the "secrets of the pyramids" will not help, knowledge of crop circles will not help, UFOs will not be there, nothing that is of form will help,.
These other things may well have there place in this world but are not of the realm that you originated from or are returning to.

The Mystic is a bridge between form and formless.

At the final door of enlightenment you will face fear as the one and only death that is possible, the death of the ego, is about to occur, at that point you have choice, give into the fear and return to duality and ignorance, or walk straight ahead no matter what.

The ones who have gone through before you will wordlessly support you through this if you choose to continue.
Only God walks through the final door.
God is what you are when all that is not God is surrendered.

If you disagree fine im, just the messenger so to speak.

Wishing you well.
Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:35 PM   #131
beren
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Originally Posted by Humble Janitor View Post
Since when were moral values exclusively Christian? They exist in all cultures. Also, why should organized religion dictate what people do, what they say and how they react? People are still free to worship their god. They're still free to speak. Are they not satisfied unless 95% of the rest of the country is following their god?

I have many questions for the moral values crowd and their claims of a politically-correct movement, etc.

While a majority of society is full of rude, childish people, there will always be a select few that stand out as kind, caring and honorable. Why does their religion matter so much?

As for respect for authority? Authority does not respect the people. Why should the people respect authority? I'm not going to respect cops, soldiers and teachers until they respect me. Their willingness to fight unjust wars and enforce unjust laws is a disrespect to people. Teachers that suppress the creativity of students are just as bad.

This isn't the 1950s anymore. People have gotten wiser over time.

Humble Janitor,

I understand you. But I think you tend as Ortohoxymoron too, to waste your energy on too many questions and opinions.
Looking like confused person. Now I do not mean anything bad by stating that ,just I feel you're like that.

Problem lies in programmed human brain. For example nothing is or could be branded as someone's particularly morality. Air we breathe ,food we eat and everything we use here on Earth is not ours. Unfortunately we think that is.
Man made religions and religious institutions and then selfishly stated that something is HIS...
I explained this before but I will repeat it again.
Christ - means deliverer, messiah, redeemer. It is not a last name of Jesus. It is a title.
A deliverer from darkness and evil.
Therefore whom ever wants to carry that term on his name , must be as Jesus. Must behave ,think and do things like Jesus did.
Well we are not perfect so we can not do 100% as him but as we try more , the more we will be holy as he was and is.
That means to be a Christian.

It has nothing to do with any religion on Earth. But see, they (religions and their masters) like to steal as their master is a thief, they like to steal from others and present it as their ownership. Catholics or Orthodox or Protestants ... What are they??? They called themselves Christian...but are they? Are they holy in their lives?
Do they deliver people from darkness and evil???
NO.
Most of them -no.

So using common sense ,one can see that they are masqueraded in "Christianity" ,but are in fact far away from it.

Why they do not call them selves Christians? Why they like and prefer to name them selves Catholics,Protestants,Adventists,Orthodox ,Jehovah Witnesses, Baptists,Nazarenes,Anglicans...........
Why not just Christians?

It is a heavy burden to carry if your heart is polluted.

Actually you can carry it and it is light as a feather if your heart and soul are clean, leaning on a right side , adopting light and truth and love from Christ and God and reflecting that light on others.

SO as a conclusion , morale actually IS Christian exclusively. The true Christians'.
Bible say that in the near future all will be Christians in the perfect meaning of the word.Christianity is not a religion. From every nation in the world , people will be gathered into one before God.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:03 PM   #132
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Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:42 PM   #133
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Well aroundthetable you certainly started a very interesting thread, I have certainly learned and gained much from it.
Thanks
Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:44 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris
Ditto that greybeard. Just lurking now...

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Old 02-19-2010, 03:21 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by kriya View Post
God just wants our love. That's it. You have the power to accept or reject that, God has no power over you, if you do not wish it.

Paramahansa Yogananda said, that God does not know how great he is, otherwise he wouldn't be that great - no ego!!.

If you meditate upon God, sincerely, you will get your proof! And yes you are right in order to become God conscious you have to submit, but this is really about destroying ego, not about enslavement.

Lastly, Ortho, I think people have tried to answer your questions to the best of their ability, but you choose not to accept them, which is a different matter all together.

We all follow our own paths, right?
Is there no malevolent supernatural force at work on Earth...masquerading as God? Be careful which God you meditate upon! Beware of charlatans, tyrants, manipulators, deceivers, and pretenders! I have tried to make my case to the best of my ability on many different threads...and I continue to receive mostly chilly responses...when someone actually responds! Thank-you all for your warm and thoughtful comments!

Namaste
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:09 PM   #136
beren
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Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Is there no malevolent supernatural force at work on Earth...masquerading as God? Be careful which God you meditate upon! Beware of charlatans, tyrants, manipulators, deceivers, and pretenders! I have tried to make my case to the best of my ability on many different threads...and I continue to receive mostly chilly responses...when someone actually responds! Thank-you all for your warm and thoughtful comments!

Namaste
Ortho ,
yes malevolent force calls him self "god".

He was at very high rank within heavenly realms. By his nature he was God's son. One of the many. He was an archangel -meaning he held very high position along with some yet unknown tasks to do in the universe.

Alas for him and his wicked deeds afterward since he allowed that ego and pride slowly but surely overcome his mind and very being and thus he became corrupted.

He was expelled from heavenly family but was not deprived of some powers he had. Then he abused those powers and we all see and feel the results of that.

Many books were written about this whole thing and you even find that in Silmarillion theme from Tolkien.
But in Bible in separate books we find his true intentions why he rebelled .
He wanted that all others worship him along with Creator. He was made beautiful and strong . His name implies that he was very bright in his works and glory (Lucifer-light bearer),
When he was cast out he got name Satan (adversary) ,Devil (liar) .

I can tell you from personal experience , I know a woman , a very trustworthy woman and devoted Christian. Before she found God and actually became Christian ,evil forces were terrifying and torment her constantly for years. She would lay down in bed and in the middle of the night she would awake in the cross road street like 3 km away from her home in night gown. They would beat her viciously while she was lying down in bed.She would lay down healthy and happy and in the morning she would awake with bruises and wounds. Many similar stuff too.
Then when she found Christ and God , they changed attack tactics. But often they would still attack but now she was protected by angels.
She said that she saw them all and also that it is not given to everybody that they can see spiritual world.

Last time when I spoke with her I talked about UFO's and you'd think that an older woman and Christian too would bluntly repulse that in disbelief...
She didn't blinked ! She just said it is not given to everybody to see spiritual world...

Once she was in a park in my city and a woman came to her and without a second thought said that she must step down from being Christian and doing work for God and Christ or she will kill her because she has "powers". That woman came out of nothing. My friend do not know her and never saw her. That woman even told her that she works for dark side and listens all that they command her.

After few minutes woman performed some odd ritual right there in the park for a few seconds and my friend felt like some form of energy struck her deeply and whole left side was taken our for whole month.
When that happened she slowly prayed and walked away, during her walking away vast array of evil entities attacked her and she saw like sky was burning above with screams and cursing and the worst forms of insults against her. Of course she was the only one that could see that. And then , Satan appeared as beautiful angel with wrath towards her.

That happened few years ago but she still have troubles with entities and demons along with their master Satan.


I elaborated this here in order to show you real experience and what happens when we are attacked.
But one thing is sure, if you draw your self closer to light,love,truth... you are being protected by Creator.

Also one of the dirty tricks of Satan is that when he does not attack you by fear , then he tries to confuse you with lies, half truths are 99% of truth and 1% of lie.
For every person he has a tactic of what may work for him or her in order to enslave that soul and eventually destroy it.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:19 PM   #137
beren
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Hi Beren
please correct me if I have failed to understand but I take it you are speaking of Christ Consciousness. The second coming not being Christ in form though thats not impossible but Christ within all of us.
If I have understood correctly I pray that you are right and the time is close at hand.
Not that my thoughts are of any consequence, The Will of God will occur regardless of my opinion.

Being a little light hearted.
The thought sprang to my mind
"We make plans and God laughs"
With love
Chris

Well you can call it that way. Before God there are no nations or colors or creeds, there are only humans. And we are all born with conscience. Now when one draws closer to God and Christ ,he or she then develops Christ's conscience.

Now as conscience is real so is Christ. He is king over kings and Lord of Lords. There is no one higher than him ,save the Creator himself as his and our father.
Greybeard , I am joyful that universe has that king since he personally came , taught, done things for people. He actually showed his love towards us. And as Bible also state, even him being perfect son of God had to learn humility. Also do not forget that he even washed feet of his disciples in order to show them what love is.
Imagine that, Lord of Lords and King of Kings bowed down to few humans and did the work of a servant by washing their feet!
Simply amazing!
It shows us that we have to re learn our attitudes and really grasp what love is and means.


Regarding his return, just follow the prophecies written in Bible how they magnificently prove right , to the very letter they were written.

Imagine the fear religions feel from his return ,no wonder why they lie their followers about Creator, Christ and all connected . .. they enslaved billions , they carry the blood of innocents on themselves and still dare to call his name upon themselves?

Justice is coming swiftly .
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:24 PM   #138
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Greybeard, Beren, Frank, Truthseeker et all, thankyou, am also enjoying and relishing such topics, they are eternally sweet.

Thankyou also for everyone asking questions, this is so important for the process of self realisation ( Gods personal way of giving us the truth ). More questions please, the harder the better. This is not an invitation to project your personal abuse however, sincerity begets sincerity.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #139
Frank Samuel
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In the name of God and Christianity 60 million natives where slaughter in America. In the Old Testament David was one of the most vicious tyrants slaughtering entire villages in the name of God. After Christianity was name the official religion of Rome the coliseum still continue as a spectator sport the only difference is that Christians where the spectators. This is the irony of our believes. Yes evil is real it is part of each one of us as we commit injustices against our fellow man . To take responsibility for our own actions is not an easy thing to do. I realize that I am my own worst enemy if I am truly honest with myself. One of my religious teachers a pretty wise and Holy man told me that we are a reflection of God and Satan. Thus the dilemma of the human race. Patience, humility, compassion, forgiveness, love are universal terms that are powerful when applied to our lives. Everyone will transcend in time and achieved a balance between these two forces that are a part of each one of us.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:36 PM   #140
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Some non religious food for thought.

Quote:
People are unreasonable, illogical and self-centered. 
Love them anyway. 



If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. 
Do good anyway. 



If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies.
 Succeed anyway.



The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. 
Do good anyway. 



Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
 Be honest and frank anyway.



What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
 Build anyway.



People really need help but may attack you if you help them. 
Help people anyway. 



Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth.
 Give the world the best you've got anyway.



Reminding yourself that in life, you will often be given the opportunity to do right or wrong.
The wrong may be easier, more (superficially) satisfying, more profitable, or appear to put you in a better light. Do the right thing anyway.
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:48 PM   #141
Frank Samuel
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Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ? Is there absolute evil ? and if so does this mean evil existed as part of the reality of God? Some might call this sacrilegious statements, they are not, these are questions that I ask the origin of all things while in meditation.
Breaking down our concepts of absolutes is the beginning to transcend beyond mere believes and begin to see our duality from a realistic perspective. Thanks Aroundthetable and everyone for not taking offense in my questions.There's a reason for my madness if you get my meaning. I love to think outside of the box I have a million questions like this one to inspire your original mind. Without using the classic answer of free will can someone reach down and give me your honest view from a personal perspective of coming to terms with your duality.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:03 PM   #142
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Thankyou Frank, brilliant and insightful question, i will return!! Going to cook and relax awhile right now
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:05 PM   #143
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Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ?
I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

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Old 02-19-2010, 06:13 PM   #144
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I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

I take your challenge....i love that!!! As for the rest, it sounds correct to me, up to a point, so i would like to go and make dinner and leave all interested, with this little conundrum,

God is everthing,
But everything is not God.

take your time!
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:29 PM   #145
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Aroundthetable another good question of coming to terms with my duality. If we are created in the image of God and each of us are both good and evil does this mean that God is also a duality of these two forces? Does this mean that God ascended beyond these two forces, or was it an error in the design of sentient beings ? Is there absolute evil ? and if so does this mean evil existed as part of the reality of God? Some might call this sacrilegious statements, they are not, these are questions that I ask the origin of all things while in meditation.
Breaking down our concepts of absolutes is the beginning to transcend beyond mere believes and begin to see our duality from a realistic perspective. Thanks Aroundthetable and everyone for not taking offense in my questions.There's a reason for my madness if you get my meaning. I love to think outside of the box I have a million questions like this one to inspire your original mind. Without using the classic answer of free will can someone reach down and give me your honest view from a personal perspective of coming to terms with your duality.
Hi Frank
Yes Ive had these questions in mind in the past and they are very valid.
I can only point you to "the ego what is it?how to transcend thread" you might have to work through quite a few pages but the answer is in there.

Better still buy "Power versus Force" by Dr Hawkins http://www.veritaspub.com/




Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the spiritual evolution of mankind.

Regards Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:44 PM   #146
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:53 PM   #147
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I take your challenge, and from what I know (revealed) The Supreme Creator is singularity (vortex, energy, point, etc.).
However, the Creation at least the lower levels is bound by duality with the scope of spiritual growth.
Think of it as the kindergarten of the Universe, to sum it up. Hope this helps.

Yes truthseekerdan.
that is my understanding too.
God could be likened to a giant electromagnetic field, Omnipresent.
Science (Quantum) is proving the existence of God

We all have our unique electromagnetic signature which is like an attractor field.
Every thought word deed affects this signature, Good thoughts raise our spiritual energy and therefore we then attract more of Love into our life. Unfortunately the opposite also occurs.

You could say the whole purpose of life is to exit at a higher vibration than we came in.
Its as though the world is purgatory, we have the opportunity to undo past life negative karma.
On death there is no judgment, its not necessary as we gravitate to the realm concordant with our vibration. "In my Fathers house are many mansions" So we head for the Celestial realms or the lower astral hell and we chose the destination through loving God or denying Him.
There are consequences for every action -- no one escape these consequences.
Call it karma, "As we sow so shall we reap".
God is on going creation and evolution.

There are paradoxes in all spiritual teachings but thats my understanding of the moment.

Chris
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:12 PM   #148
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I thank you for your answers , I want to be more specific if you accept the premise of the nature of humans. The man in the mirror, us, faces himself as his own worst enemy. In order words, have any of you transcended to the point of becoming an absolute point of goodness ? Or have you accepted your duality and created a balance between them? If so how does your duality reflects the true nature of God ? Here's a hint of where I am at in answering this question for myself, see if you have this same dilemma. As a parent I want my children to be better than me. My children are more valuable for me than myself. I don't want my children to become me, I want them to become their own person. We as parents are not perfect , the reality of our lives is that our children inherit both our attributes and our faults. We view God as a separate reality than this one. The classic tale of Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind for me as God's situation when it comes to sentient beings. Once again these are questions I ponder upon , they have help me to come to terms with myself and my relationship to the origin of all things .
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:22 PM   #149
Frank Samuel
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Talking Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

Truthseekerdan

Thank you for the video in one sentence Ziggy said it best, "Love is my Religion"
You made my Day !!!

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Old 02-19-2010, 07:31 PM   #150
greybeard
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Default Re: Why making God unfashionable never works..

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Originally Posted by Frank Samuel View Post
I thank you for your answers , I want to be more specific if you accept the premise of the nature of humans. The man in the mirror, us, faces himself as his own worst enemy. In order words, have any of you transcended to the point of becoming an absolute point of goodness ? Or have you accepted your duality and created a balance between them? If so how does your duality reflects the true nature of God ? Here's a hint of where I am at in answering this question for myself, see if you have this same dilemma. As a parent I want my children to be better than me. My children are more valuable for me than myself. I don't want my children to become me, I want them to become their own person. We as parents are not perfect , the reality of our lives is that our children inherit both our attributes and our faults. We view God as a separate reality than this one. The classic tale of Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind for me as God's situation when it comes to sentient beings. Once again these are questions I ponder upon , they have help me to come to terms with myself and my relationship to the origin of all things .
Dear Frank
Honestly it is such a complex subject you wont get a satisfactory answer on a forum theer is just not enough time or space.

Dr Hawkins covered the subject fully to my satisfaction but it took two books and 400 pages. One I can recommend is" Discovery of the presence of God / Devotional Nonduality."
You can start to transcend seeming opposites as seeing alternatives instead.
Not hot and cold but a sliding temperature scale more heat less heat.
More of Love less and less till there is an absence of love.
Another biggie is causality. Nothing is causing anything to happen. We all have a potential and react within that potential to situations. For example one person will get angry on hearing something another will shrug it off. The event does not have the power to make some one angry. No one has any power to make you do anything short of a loaded gun of course.
Duality does not reflect the nature of God.
God does not have a nature in that no human term can be applied.
Unconditional Love is nearest.
Kids are ready to hear this when they are ready.
Im sure you are a great father, why worry!!!
Hope this helps Frank
Chris
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