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Old 10-26-2008, 11:13 AM   #1
THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
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Exclamation The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

[This post has been edited by Anchor with the agreement of THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR for which I am grateful. It is done in order to maintain thread tidiness and remove excessive text. This post is still bigger than we like to see, but sufficient has been left to get you interested if you are new to the material. You can go direct to the compendium done by KathyT here http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html]

Dear Friends and Fellow Avalonians,

After seeing the thread on this subject once again (as with many other threads here at Avalon), obliterated by petty fighting, name calling, preaching, judging, arguing, trading insults and simply opening up old wounds and divides...

Guy's and Gal's stop all this petty bickering on this site PLEASE or we are all on a very slippery slope to a sad and bitter 'Avalonian Armageddon'...this site will simply self destruct in a mushroom cloud of self manufactured negativity.

However it seems to me that some of us here in Avalonia Land would at least like to be able to discuss the content of the ACTUAL 'material and information' itself, without 'shooting the messenger' or ourselves.

Therefore I am starting this new thread in that spirit, a place to discuss and NOT argue about:
'THE INFORMATION ONLY'!

If you want to have a go at the source and pour scorn on the material, or try to debunk and discredit it all then please go to the other thread and have your rant and rave there.

STOP this mindless THREAD BUSTING cobblers and rubbish by decending into playground rubbish speak...Let's COMMUNICATE with one another!

Some of us joined this site to explore ALL the possibilities of SPIRIT with as much LOVE, COMPASSION and UNDERSTANDING of one another as we are able to offer...

So again, a reminder: This is for a POSITIVE and FRIENDLY in depth discussion of the dialogue from the 'HIDDEN HAND'...it is after all...
'A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY'!

I would ask the Moderators of Olde Avalonia to please REMOVE and posts that are simply negative rants or not relevant to this discussion in the spirit which it is intended, thankyou.

Below is the transcript of the communication, which I have posted here in order to save any confusion for anyone new to this material as to exactly what this thread is all about:

My opinion, well no matter the source in terms of genuine insider or not there are some extremely interesting and deep things being said and brought forward.

So, OPEN YOUR MIND, OPEN YOUR HEART and allow your paradigm to shift a little as you digest the actual spiritual content of WHAT is being said!

I look forward to your thought provoking and intelligent posts my friends...Were all here for the ride so let's wake up together and enjoy it!

One World - One Love - One People

PEACE OUT ...and I Smile

This is the original source at ATS
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread402958/pg1

This is KathyT's compendium
http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html

Following is a teaser from the links above, but you can go there if you want to read it all. The link is repeated at the end of this message.


Topic started on 18-10-2008 @ 09:05 PM by Hidden-Hand

I am a generational member of a Ruling Bloodline Family.

Every so often, as per the directives of the Law of our Creator, a brief window of opportunity opens, whereby a select handful of our Family are required to make communication with our subjects, and offer you the chance to ask us any questions you would like answered.

I am double-bound in this duty. It is required of me by The Law of our Creator to offer this opportunity to you at this time, though I am also bound by the Law of (planetary) Free Will and by Family Oaths, that there is only so much I am able to say.

Rules define life in games.

If you wish to participate, here they are:

1). I will afford you courtesy and respect in the manner I address you, and I expect the same from you in reciprocation.

2). I will decide whether or not I am either willing or permitted to answer your question. If your question is not answered, it is either because I cannot disclose it, or because I considered your question was lacking in one or more of the following: respect, courtesy, intelligence, decency, or that it was otherwise unworthy of being dignified with a response.

3). That you agree to treat this potential dialogue with an aspect of "provisional faith". In practice, this means that rather than impeding the flow of information with crass comments of disbelief or petty name calling, my participation here requires of you that you discourse with me under "suspended judgment". In other words, wait until the process is complete, before deciding for yourself as to the content of truth and knowledge imparted herein.

4). That you formulate your questions intelligently. My time is limited. I do not want to waste it by having to trawl through pointless, futile, insensible or disrespectful questions, therefore I will answer the questions I feel are most deserving of a response, during the time that I have available. Use the time we have wisely.

If any of the above conditions are breached, I reserve the right to terminate our discourse forthwith, if I so choose.

That being said, I will attempt to answer your questions as honestly and openly as is permissible for me. I will check back and respond as time allows.



posted on 19-10-2008 @ 12:10 PM by Hidden_Hand

My original account has not received it's email validation, hence the new one I am now using.

A good start. Thank (most of) you for respecting the boundaries I have set.

I answer as follows:

“1). How many generations back does your bloodline extend, or, perhaps more accurately, who does your family consider its earliest ancestor in a position of power?”

Our Lineage can be traced back beyond antiquity. From the earliest times of your recorded "history", and beyond, our Family has been 'directing' the 'play' from behind the scenes, in one way or another. Before the rise and fall of Atlantis. (Yes, that was indeed perfectly real). We are 'born to lead'. It is part of the design for this current paradigm.

“2). To what extent has selective breeding been used to preserve the purity of the line? and what becomes of children of unapproved unions? (They would naturally still be raised with privilege, but not, perhaps "given the keys to the castle" as it were?)”

The breeding is generally case specific, dependant upon the role that the Family members in question are due to grow into. I will touch more on this in answer to the next poster's question that you rephrased.

There are no unapproved unions. Our Family will always intermarry between lines, or, what we would term 'Houses'. Marriages are arranged. In all my years alive, I have never seen or heard of a Family member breaking this code, as far as marriage goes. You do as you are told. One cannot 'join' the Family. One is 'born', or incarnated into it.
On the rare instances of a child being born that could be seen as bringing 'difficulties', you are correct in your premise, that it would be raised as part of the Family, though would not grow up in the house or community of either of it's parents.

“3). If one were to imagine a scale, perhaps as a triangle with Political, Religious and Corporate power at the three points, how would you categorize the power your family yields? (Balanced? Leaning more towards one or two than a third? Heavily favoring one of the three above the others?) And has that position shifted over time?”

You need to first understand the structure of the Family. In the grand scheme of things, the Line is not as important as the House, the House, is not as important as the Family. The Family is all. No matter the House or Line, we are One (truly international) Family.

Imagine if you will, a body. A House would represent a vital organ or body part within the Body itself. Each part has an important role to play in the functioning of the whole, and to each of us, the 'whole' has our undivided loyalty. As I say, many lines, (far more than you are aware of), One Family.

Our realms of influence do not fit as comfortably into the three boxes of your triangle as you may imagine. There are six disciplines of training within the Family, and each member of the Family is schooled extensively in all of them, from early childhood. We all have an area of specialty, though we have experience in all spheres. The six spheres or 'schools' of learning are Military, Government, Spiritual, Scholarship, Leadership, and Sciences. In practice, out there on the 'stage' of public life, we hold key positions in all of these main areas of importance. With the addition of a complicit Media machine and ownership of your Financial establishments, all bases are covered.

I will have to reply in parts, due to the restriction of characters per post.

“Which Ruling Bloodline Family.... Rockefellers?
That may be a bit too direct for our inquisitee. I'd offer the following substitute:
How many parallel bloodlines do you estimate are in similar positions to your own, and to what extent does your family see them as either competition or collaborators?”

Yes, as I say, knowing the line is of no practical use to you. It is the belonging to the Family that is important.
There are 13 'base' or 'core' original bloodlines. Yet there are many many other lines that spring from these, as do rivers from the oceans. If you imagine the 13 Original lines as Primary colour, that can be mixed to create a vast array of other colours, then you will have some comprehension. Again, no competition, just Family.
No competition in the sense of House against House, though it is a 'dog eat dog' world. So there is interpersonal competition in that sense of the word. Everyone wants to move up. Our whole Familial society is geared that way, toward upward progression.

“What does the term " generational member" mean? Which generation specifically??”

It means that one is born into the Family. The Order and it's agenda is handed down, from generation to generation. Only in extremely rare occasions, have outsiders been invested into the Family, and then, even these were of other 'esoterically' integrable lines.

“1) Can you cite two or more previous instances whereby this directive has been upheld?”

Once in 1999, to what you would call an 'alternative' media source.
Once in 2003, on another internet "conspiracy" based forum. Though the information relayed was not entirely 'pure'. Not from the intention of misleading, but rather through imperfect or incomplete knowledge of the messengers.

If it is not in the mainstream controlled media, it will not be believed by the masses. This is information tailored for those who already know that we are very real, and exerting a strong, if mostly subtle, influence over your lives. If you wish to enslave a man, allow him to believe that he is already free.

“2).By what basis is the timing of such revelations established?”

By the decree of the Supreme World Council, according to the Will of the Creator.

“Are we really considered chattel and traded as such by the government?”

By the governments, generally, yes. People are seen as 'collateral'. Pawns that are maneuvered around the chess board, according to the game plan. By the Family, contrary to popular beliefs, many of us do not mean you any harm directly. There is just the matter of divine destiny to uphold and unfold, and we must play our parts in the game, as given to us by the Creator. In many ways, it is actually in our own interest that you are prepared for the coming Harvest

. Just not maybe prepared in quite the way that you would like. Still, even then, you are choosing the Negative Polarity with your own Free Will decisions, with a little 'help' and direction from us. Souls are Harvestable in either 'extreme' of the Polarities, one could say.

“If so, how do we become freemen?”

You will never be 'free', for as long as you are incarnating on this planet. The very nature of your being here, is indication of that. There is a reason why you are here, and 'here' is very likely not really where you think 'here' is. How do you become free? By working out where you are, and coming to an understanding, of why you are here. You are fast running out of time to do so, before the coming Harvest. Those that don't make it, will have to repeat the cycle.

“Is the Messiah alive today?”

There is no "Messiah". Stop looking outside of yourself for 'salvation'.
Is there what you might call a 'Christ Consciousness' alive, then yes, in a manner of speaking. Though not in your 3rd Density (dimensional) awareness.


reply posted on 19-10-2008 @ 12:20 PM by Hidden_Hand

“Is it the end-times, as described in the book of revelations?

Yes. Not just described in the Book of Revelations, but also in the prophesies of virtually every religion, spiritual philosophy, and mystery tradition throughout history. This time is now at hand.

To use your own example however:

Revelation 14:14-16:

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

The 'earth' is indeed ripe for Harvest. The question is, who will be ready? And will the Harvest be Positive, or Negative?



“How do you justify that the current British royal family line is the true bloodline, but Ishmael is not the true receiver of Abraham's gift? If you're true bloodline, you'll know what I mean.”



Who says it is the 'true' line? There were Ruling-Bloodlines long before your 'Yahweh' and his 'Christianity' arrived on this planet. Yahweh is 'a' Creator, not 'The' One Infinite Creator. There are other and Higher 'gods' than him. Ultimately, All, are a part of The One, and either consciously, or unconsciously, exercising their Free Will to Create. Begin to study 'outside of the box' for a True understanding of the Creation.

The British Royalty is not the most powerful line. The names that you know, do not hold the real ancient power. There are others above these lineages in the Hierarchy. You will not know the names of these lines.



“OP, what proof do you have that "ruling elite families" exist and that your a member of one? Its something that I think you thought was not falsifiable, which is why you chose that identity for the story your weaving - however, I think there may indeed be a way you can prove it.”


I have no need to prove anything to you. I am merely doing my duty as directed to me. Believe, or do not believe, we are divinely indifferent. I am obliged to complete this task here. The end result is of no consequence to me. I will have discharged my duty, in handing down certain information that must be released at this time. There is no stipulation as to where I do so, only that I do. I chose Above Top Secret, as the general level of intelligence, comprehension and reasoning is reckoned to be higher than in many such forums.

Understand, due to the Law of Free Will, I cannot just give you information, at least not without consequences to my own person which I would rather avoid. It is an infringement upon your Free Will, your right to not know. You have to ask me for the information you want, only then can I provide it. So whilst there are important things I have to share, if I am not asked the questions, I cannot get that information to you. I am hopeful that synchronicity will bring the most important questions of real 'depth' out from among you.

My duty is to offer. Yours is to ask. My duty is fulfilled, whether or not yours is.


“Surely if ruling elite families exist and your a member of one then you must be controlling global events through world governments - tell us 1 major government action from any country that going to occur in the next 5 days.
I won't be surprised when you refuse to do so.”

I am not at liberty to discuss such intimate immediate detail, and in many cases, I am not far enough up the Hierarchy to know anyway. Typically, I would receive a call a day before the enactment of a major event, just to say something along the lines of 'this part of such and such a plan will take place tomorrow, in such and such a way, do not be alarmed'. Also one has to take into account, the specific areas of specialty I mentioned previously. My area is in Spirituality, so my focus is not so much on Geo-Political events. I am aware of the overall design, though the finer points are not often my area of expertise.
I am prepared to give you some things coming down the timeline, that you will be able to look back upon, and verify my predictions retrospectively.

The Stock Markets will soon complete their controlled demolition. After an initial 'appearance' that the 'bail outs' and 'rescue packages' have steadied the ship, there will be new record lows by the end of the month.

Our Financial Institutions will later call in all loans. There will be many bankruptcies and foreclosures.

The only way John McCain will become the next US President, will be if something "happens" to Barack Obama before the election. If there even is an election. If a certain faction get their way, there will not be. Remember, behind the scenes, there is only One Party. Our Party. 'Democracy' is an illusion which is created to uphold your slavery. Whichever side 'wins'; the Family wins. There are many possibilities and alternative 'scripts'. All of them lead toward the ultimate implementation of the overall blueprint of our Creator,

Unless any unforeseen disruptions delay it's announcement, there will be a new currency by the end of 2008 / early 2009, along with a new Union of nations. January has been spoken of in some circles, as the latest, though there are plans underway which could even bring this to fruition much earlier than initially hoped for. It depends upon the results of other upcoming events as to how this will play out. I am not high enough up the Hierarchy to know the intimate details of the dates and times that far in advance. There is a 'tree system' in which such knowledge is passed down, as and when it becomes 'need to know'. I would be considered to be a "Regional" leader. Above me, are National and International.

San Francisco and Damascus, will be uninhabitable by the end of 2010, possibly even sooner. Again, it depends upon certain 'forces' at play, and which timelines are activated. Humanity, though utterly unconscious of the fact, has a significant part to play in this. You (as a collective consciousness of the planet) are choosing the Negative Polarization by default, by the quality of your thoughts and actions. Thought is creative energy, focused. You get exactly what you put out.

continued...


Why do you think the Media is so important to us? You have (as a society), in your hypnotized comatose state, given your Free Will consent to the state your planet is in today. You saturate your minds with the unhealthy dishes served up for you on your televisions that you are addicted to, violence, pornography, greed, hatred, selfishness, incessant 'bad news', fear and 'terror'. When was the last time you stopped, to think of something beautiful and pure? The planet is the way it is, because of your collective thoughts about it. You are complicit in your inaction, every time you 'look the other way' when you see an injustice. Your 'thought' at the sub-conscious level of creation to the Creator, is your allowance of these things to occur. In so doing, you are serving our purpose. It is very important to us, that the Polarization of this planet is Negative at the time of the Great Harvest. That means Service to Self orientated, as opposed to Positive, Service to Others. We require a Negative Harvest, and you are doing a fine job of helping us to attain our goal. We are very grateful.

There will be dramatic changes to your climate and weather conditions

over the next few years, as the time of the Great Harvest approaches. You will see windspeeds surpassing 300 miles per hour at times. There will be raging tsunamis and widespread devastation; and a solar emission in late 2009 early 2010 that will cause major melting of the ice caps, and subsequent drastic rise in sea levels, leaving many (international) metropolitan areas underwater.

That is all I have time for at present. I have a Sacrifice I must attend now.
No, not really.

Let's see if we can increase the 'depth' of enquiry and question matter in the next session. Seek beyond the superficial. Get to the 'Core' of the matter.


reply posted on 19-10-2008 @ 11:46 PM by Hidden_Hand



Ok, a lot to get through here, so please let me finish the many posts it will take to answer your questions (due to the limit on characters per post) before you reply, so as not to interrupt the flow of the message..

“How do you know that your bloodline deserves to lead and the rest deserve to follow? Wealth and power is self-propagating therefore I say to you that your bloodline only comprises the 'extreme elite' of the world because your ancestors came to power by chance in the beginning, not because your kind are special. In fact, there's nothing special, clever or honourable in enslaving others.”

It is not about 'deserving' or not. Does one 'deserve' to be born English, or American, or Italian, or French, or German, and so on? We came not to power by 'chance', but rather, (which I know may be hard to swallow) by intelligent design. This path of ours was not 'chosen' by us, but rather it was appointed, and accepted.

“Who is your "creator" and is your "creator" the same as our "creator"?”

This is an excellent question, which I can use to draw our communication closer to the 'Core'.

Yes and no. You would first need to understand the Creation.

In the Beginning, there is The Infinite One. This is the Source of All. Intelligent Infinity. It is the undifferentiated absolute. Within It, is unlimited potential, waiting to 'become'. Think of it as the "uncarved block" of your Taoist traditions.

Infinite Intelligence, becoming 'aware' of Itself, seeks to experience Itself, and The One Infinite Creator is 'born', or 'manifest' (This appears to your 3rd Density comprehension as "Space"). In effect, the 'Creator', is a point of focused Infinite Consciousness or awareness, into Infinite Intelligent Energy. The One Infinite Creator also becoming self aware, seeks too to experience Itself as Creator, and in so doing, begins the next step down in the Creational spiral. The One Infinite Creator, in focusing It's Infinite Intelligence, becomes Intelligent Energy (which you could call the Great Central Sun), and divides Itself into smaller portions of Itself, that can then in turn experience themselves as Creators (or Central Suns). In other words, each Central Sun (or Creator) is a 'step down' in Conscious awareness (or distortion) from the Original 'thought' of Creation. So "In the beginning" was not "The Word", but Thought. The Word, is thought expressed and made manifest as Creator.

There is Unity. Unity is All there is. Infinite Intelligence, and Infinite Energy. The two are One, and within them, is the potental for all Creation. This state of Consciousness could be termed as 'Being'.
Infinite Intelligence does not recognize it's 'potential'. It is the undifferentiated absolute. But Infinite Energy recognizes the potential of 'becoming' all things, in order to bring any desired experience into 'being'.

Intelligent Infinity can be likened to the central 'Heartbeat' of Life, and Infinite Energy as the Spiritual 'Life-blood' (or potential) which 'pumps out' for the Creator to form the Creation.

This image may assist your comprehension:

reply posted on 19-10-2008 @ 11:49 PM by Hidden_Hand

Creation is based upon the 'Three Primary Distortions of The Infinite One'.

1). Free Will:

In the first Law (or distortion) of Creation, the Creator receives the Free Will to know and experience Itself as an individuated though (paradoxically) unified aspect of The One.


2). Love:

In the second Law of Creation, the initial distortion of Free Will, becomes a focus point of awareness known as Logos, or 'Love' (or The Word in biblical terms). Love, or Logos, using It's Infinite Intelligent Energy, then takes on the role of co-creating a vast array of physical illusions ('thought forms') or Densities (which some call Dimensions) in which according to It's Intelligent design, will best offer the range of 'potential' experiences in which It can know Itself.

In effect, the One Infinite Creator, in dividing Itself into Logos, could be termed in your 3rd Density understanding as a 'Universal Creator'. In other words, Logos, creates on a Universal level of Being. Logos creates physical Universes, in which It and the Creator may experience theirself.
("Let there be Light")

3). Light:

To manifest this Infinite spiritual or 'Life-Force' Energy into a physical thought form of Densities, Logos creates the third distortion, of Light. From the three original Primary distortions of The One into making the Creation, arise myriad hierarchies of other sub-distortions, containing their own specific paradoxes. The goal of the Game is to enter into these in further divions of Creation, and then seek to harmonize the Polarities, in order to once again know Oneself as the Creator of them.

The nature of all such physically manifest Energy, is Light. Wherever thus exists any form of physical 'matter', there is Light, or Divine Intelligent Energy at it's Core or Centre.

Something which is Infinite cannot be 'other than', or 'many', An Infinite Creator knows only Unity. Thus, drawing upon It's Infinite Intelligence, the Infinite Creator designed a blueprint based on the finite principles of Free Will of Awareness and sub-level Creations, which in turn, could become aware of themselves, and seek to experience themselves as Creators. And so the "Russian Doll" style experiment was 'stepped down' and down and down. Levels of Creation within levels of Creation.

The One Infinite Creator (or Great Central Sun) steps down It's Infinite Energy to become Logos. Logos in turn designs vast Universes of Space (as yet unmaterialized), stepping down and splitting Itself again, into Logoi (plural), in other words, into an array of Central Suns which will each become a Logos (or 'co-creator') of It's own Universe, with each unique individualized portion of the One Infinite Creator, containing within It as It's very essence, Intelligent Infinity.

Using the Law of Free Will, each Universal Logos (Central Sun) designs and creates It's own version or perspective of 'physical reality' in which to experience Itself as Creator. Stepping down again, It focuses It's Intelligent Energy and creates the unmanifest form of Galaxies within Itself, and splits Itself into yet further 'co-creator' portions ('Sub-Logos' or Suns) which in turn will then design and manifest their own ideas of physical reality in the form of points of Conscious Awareness that we call Suns Stars and Planets.

Please read more if you want here http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html as the moderators have requested the removal of the other posts of excessive text.

Last edited by Anchor; 10-27-2008 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:24 AM   #2
THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
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Talking Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

On a final note for now please remember to look deeper than your initial conditioned judgements at the ACTUAL SPIRITUAL CONTENT of the information contained within the above material.

Forget about who may or may not have written this and try to digest the contents without the interface of your personality or ego and you might find it sounding quite different to what you thought you heard it say.

I also strongly suggest a second read if you wish to extract the 'JUICE' inside the words, again if you read it only once, maybe re-read it with your 'filters' turned off.

Like it or not there are spiritual truths within this communication and without your judgement switched on that is what it is, a communication!

We are ALL in THE GAME, so let's play, have fun and share ideas and viewpoints peacefully with one another!

PEACE OUT ...and I Smile
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:32 AM   #3
JohnWdoe
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

I understand the Spiritual message behind this but that is how they hide, no pity or love for me.

Spirituality is the greatest of all tactics to rule and allow otherwise horrible acts be deemed "natural" their is a reason people don't like this - because its one of the unspoken wrongs.

I will reply again after i read it all (jumping the gun?, not really as everything he knows i know) so his information is quite "mainstream" to people here.

Avalon will be just fine! we have arguments because we differ... and if we can understand each other all the better, but if people are needlessly picking and spitting on other members then that is not acceptable... We are all one in the end and to me that is enough to see you all as MY "family".

It could be easily faked but what i speak from is a Philosophical stance be it real or faked - his disclosure.

They transcend most of our beliefs and they feel they can do anything to justify their agenda - a BIG no no with me personally and what ever you feel about it is your opinion not mine. I stand for what i believe in and that is all of us being free and loving of each other, we need not Spirituality or ruling class for this.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:48 AM   #4
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Talking Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Thankyou John Wdoe,

As I hope I said, I am making no judgement or 'call' on what this material contains.

I simply posted to allow people some thought provoking 'time out' to consider it's contents and post their thought's and yours are appreciated.

Heated debate is as you say healthy and to be commended, though I wish people here would keep it clean and productive that's all.

Sure we don't have to agree with eachother nor with this message in it's entirety, but we can extract that which makes sense to us in our lives here on the Great Blue Planet!

Thankyou for your initial thoughts and contribution John Wdoe, respectfully yours...

PEACE OUT ...and I Smile
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Old 10-26-2008, 12:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Of course my friend you are very correct in keeping a positive look at life and i know what you mean how people can fall into the fear mongering (i really can understand you) i really think me and you would get along just great in person (we should all see how healthy debates sit backseat well we drive together into a better future) because in the end i have respect for all of you.

My opinion i like to think of it as just words and the actions we seek don't always transpire as we would wish, everyday is a new adventure so to speak

I like how you use the term "Great Blue Planet" it resonates with me very so and you know what? i appreciate your appreciation of my opinion (whew! ha) your words and opinions (everyone of you) are always thoughts i go with when i lay down to sleep, so in a way we are all within each other.

Peace my friend!

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Old 10-26-2008, 01:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Thanks for starting this thread Peaceful warrior!

I feel this message can be very important for many people who waste a lot of energy "hating/fearing" the dark cabal/elite/illuminati. It really touched my heart to read this. Imagine the sacrifice this Lucifer being has done for humanity by descending from the 6th density (almost 7th) to come here and be as negetive and cruel as possible to provide a stagnant humanity with the catalyst and possibility for a relativly rapid evolution. They (the dark side) actually have to go through a whole cycle where their negative karmic momentum is allowed to run out before they can return to their proper place in the higher dimensions again. I kind of wish they would be "pardoned" and allowed to return after the Great harvest in 2012. I mean, this takes the saying "No good deed goes unpunished" to a whole new level!

I have "always" (at least since I started to wake up, as this was one of my first life-changing insights) known that the dark/negative functions as catalyst for spiritual evolution as this is my own experience in life. Free will naturally threw humanity into confusion and darkness inside, and thus "suffering". Since the outside world is simply a mirror reflecting our state of being (or level of consciousness) back to us, the dark cabal rulers appeared to reflect our inner state of non-responsibility back to us. They are of the mirror and to battle the mirror is based on a deep and ingrained misunderstanding.

The battle is always inside. It is always about changing that which is reflected in the mirror, and never about changing the mirror. Of course Jesus knew of all this when he told people to "Love their enemy". If you hate/fear the dark cabal reflection you are already moving towards their vibration and away from your true self/being. The world is a perfect feedback loop to make you conscious of all that which you are still unconscious of inside.

According to my measures as of yesterday (25.10.2008); about 27-29% of the population is already ripe for a Positive Harvest in 2012. This number will hopefully and most likely increase a lot in the years leading up to the "Great Harvest" in the late 2012. This is why the good ETs and "star kids" are here at this time. They are working towards a Positive Harvest for as many people/Souls as possible.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

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Originally Posted by Sanat View Post
Thanks for starting this thread Peaceful warrior!

I feel this message can be very important for many people who waste a lot of energy "hating/fearing" the dark cabal/elite/illuminati. It really touched my heart to read this. Imagine the sacrifice this Lucifer being has done for humanity by descending from the 6th density (almost 7th) to come here and be as negetive and cruel as possible to provide a stagnant humanity with the catalyst and possibility for a relativly rapid evolution. They (the dark side) actually have to go through a whole cycle where their negative karmic momentum is allowed to run out before they can return to their proper place in the higher dimensions again. I kind of wish they would be "pardoned" and allowed to return after the Great harvest in 2012. I mean, this takes the saying "No good deed goes unpunished" to a whole new level!

I have "always" (at least since I started to wake up, as this was one of my first life-changing insights) known that the dark/negative functions as catalyst for spiritual evolution as this is my own experience in life. Free will naturally threw humanity into confusion and darkness inside, and thus "suffering". Since the outside world is simply a mirror reflecting our state of being (or level of consciousness) back to us, the dark cabal rulers appeared to reflect our inner state of non-responsibility back to us. They are of the mirror and to battle the mirror is based on a deep and ingrained misunderstanding.

The battle is always inside. It is always about changing that which is reflected in the mirror, and never about changing the mirror. Of course Jesus knew of all this when he told people to "Love their enemy". If you hate/fear the dark cabal reflection you are already moving towards their vibration and away from your true self/being. The world is a perfect feedback loop to make you conscious of all that which you are still unconscious of inside.

According to my measures as of yesterday (25.10.2008); about 27-29% of the population is already ripe for a Positive Harvest in 2012. This number will hopefully and most likely increase a lot in the years leading up to the "Great Harvest" in the late 2012. This is why the good ETs and "star kids" are here at this time. They are working towards a Positive Harvest for as many people/Souls as possible.
The battle is not always inside and i think reality is much grander then anyone of us could honestly comprehend -Kant? but i see all this 2012 stuff and see it as nothing more then a psychological challenge to get people to fear and in the end change their ways - for the better or good.

The "good" ET's? i don't ever say aliens are not real but to bring them into this is simply not needed... What are you talking about "star kids" and "Et's" here to make sure we have a positive harvest?? i hope you understand what your saying and yet again your Spirituality and Philosophy makes murder/corruption/death okay?? i know you don't agree one bit with people being hurt but you still found a way to accept the fact under some sci-fi concept of reality which has honestly no true merit in the situation.

Your insights are just a piece of the puzzle and your opinion on the fight within is based on your experiences on this planet, i have nothing to battle within.

This is not negative either its truthful in the aspect that many people within this movement learn amazing secrets and their hole world is shaken upside down (kind of hard not to) but in this mindset we find ways to justify wrong things by calling them "harvests" or put yet another social block on the pyramid (star kids&ebe's).

In the end we are so easily persuaded into accepting horrors and nonsense under the guise of our current paradigm, it allows them to do what ever they please.

Nothing personal of course because its the concept im referring to and if that has became you then i think thats not really you.

Who were we all born as? innocent and loving.

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Old 10-26-2008, 01:48 PM   #8
Sanat
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Hello JohnWdoe!

The gap between our understanding of things is so great that I think it is best that we agree to disagree. Feel free to "debunk" any of my posts if you wish. I will however not engage in any discussion with you for the simple reason I stated above. I will emphasize the fact that this is not in any way shape or form a "value judgement" of you or your view of things. It simply is as it is. I have no problem with that at all. The best of luck to you!
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Hey Peaceful Warrior, well done for collating this thread, and i agree with your intentions/sentiments.
What can I say.....this is what we are here for.....and very enjoyable it is too. The window is still not yet closed.
And one might say that Thus Spake Zarathustra in the marketplace that day.

Help us to become.

All the love.
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Old 10-26-2008, 01:59 PM   #10
dayzero
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

And can we keep please this thread to the matter at hand as per the OP's wishes?
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Old 10-26-2008, 02:13 PM   #11
dayzero
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

x

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Old 10-26-2008, 04:28 PM   #12
KathyT
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

As I have posted before...
Here's a link to my webpage which has the entire message collated.

It can be printed in it's entirety by using your browser's print or print preview button.

http://home.comcast.net/~readingnews/Hidden_Hand.html
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Old 10-26-2008, 05:06 PM   #13
THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
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Talking Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Dear Friends and Avalonians,

Sanat:
Thankyou for your kind words, it's my pleasure and your thought's
were very interesting to consider.

John Wdoe:
Easy there tiger, no need to try to alter anyones viewpoints or belief systems here on this thread, this IS to discuss the material, I do appreciate your posts but please be gentle with other members here. Thankyou for your appreciation of my appreciation, I appreciate that very much, haha lol.

DayZero:
Thanks for all your comments my friend, I am most pleased by your 'defence of the thread' so to speak, mucho appreciato.

Kathy T:
Thankyou for your info regarding the webpage for printing this info. Please note that unless I missed anything it should also be here in it's entirety for reading at the start of this thread.

Keep em coming folks, look forward to your posts and opinions.

Remember, LOVE...ONLY LOVE...ALWAYS LOVE...

PEACE OUT ..and I Smile
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Old 10-26-2008, 06:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

I have read the entire post from Hidden Hand, and while I agree that a lot of what is SAID sounds like it is the right way to live life, the only thing I find troubling, is how THEY live their lives.

At one point, someone mentioned "Svali" and his response was that she could be one of THEM in a lower bloodline. So I googled "Svali" to see what she had to say. The information I found was SHOCKING to say the least. How children are treated even BEFORE birth is sickening.

How can such PEACEFUL thoughts come from someone with such a SICK mind?? There are double standards here, scary double standards if you think about it.

I think the Illuminati are nothing but a bunch of whackos that have money and think they rule this world. NOT!


Pam
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Yeah! I am very glad this discussion is going this way. I wanted to emphasize people to remember the difference between discussion and arguement, and I hope this remains a discussion.

Johnwdoe, I hope you stay in the discussion and keep firm with your beliefs, whatever they may be toward the material at hand. I think for taking a negative position toward the material you have presented your position very effectively, so mad props. Many people we've all probably noticed, have not been able to maintain much civility toward the issue. Because in all honesty, the reason we're dealing with all this BS is because of them. It's hard for anyone to even to begin to consider something like this due to its implication on even the most primitive level of our ego.

Another thing I wanted people to think about was the context of the message, because to me, this is by far the most intriguiging part to the message, as people have focused more on the message at hand and the messenger. The context is definetely the bridge between the two.

Think of the pyschology of the matter. We are dealing with the enemy, directly, for some of us the first time, and maybe the only time ever (IF this is the case). And in that, he is rationalizing his actions in a philosophical sense, which yes, it does make sense in the cosmological scheme of things. Love thy enemy is yes, a good example relating this notion.

Think of how Hidden Hand also presented himself, when he drifted away from his 'job,' and started revealing some of his persona, especially towards the end. Was it part of an act, or is there another subtle clue for us to think about.

This piece is extremely extraordinary in every way shape and form. You can take this and dissect it piece by piece just like one would do with Don McLean's American Pie. It is very intricate in style, presentation, and information.

Throw in some pyschoanalytical skills to look at this piece, along with an emphasis on interpreting literature and historical documents, as we all know we need a healthy level of discernment to understand and weed threw the material. Your intuition is your best friend. If it doesn't resonate with you, then hell, if better not.

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Old 10-26-2008, 07:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

wall of text
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:20 PM   #17
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wall of text
Yeah, tell me about it. The mods should delete Peaceful warriors middle two texts, and peaceful warrior, you should edit your first two texts leaving just your opinions, while posting KathyT's link at the top. Her page is very well organized.
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

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On a final note for now please remember to look deeper than your initial conditioned judgements at the ACTUAL SPIRITUAL CONTENT of the information contained within the above material.

Forget about who may or may not have written this and try to digest the contents without the interface of your personality or ego and you might find it sounding quite different to what you thought you heard it say.

I also strongly suggest a second read if you wish to extract the 'JUICE' inside the words, again if you read it only once, maybe re-read it with your 'filters' turned off.

Like it or not there are spiritual truths within this communication and without your judgement switched on that is what it is, a communication!

We are ALL in THE GAME, so let's play, have fun and share ideas and viewpoints peacefully with one another!

PEACE OUT ...and I Smile
Very powerful and inspiring to read. I openly wept because it has concepts (and truths) that are worth consideration. If anything, I will likely re-read this post and also check out the "Law of One" series.
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:21 PM   #19
norman
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

calm down folks!,

It's only a BELIEF SYSTEM, and it's theirs!

Buy it at your peril.

I'd rather leave this world 'pathetically' and do it all again than have a 'purpose' stuffed down my throat.

Ego is a devilish thing. Who who do think you are?
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:21 PM   #20
GregorArturo
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

If you resonated with this material, it is highly recommended you check out the Law of One, cause it will most likely be the same. Keep an open mind!
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

This information resonated with me greatly. Not because I take this material as the absolute truth with the way universal law works, but because if it is in fact the way our universe is governed then I feel that I am living in accordance with it to a large extent. This is a distinction that I think should be made as to our views towards the subject matter.

Truly deep ideas put onto paper whether you view it as fact or fiction.

Peace my brothers and sister!
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #22
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Thanks for the collation and the thread Peaceful. The linguistic style and phrasing of Hidden Hand are very familiar, don't want to blow his cover, but some others may have already recognized the patterns. I will read every word several times.
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:23 AM   #23
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Thread moved to - Project Avalon - Spirituality
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:27 AM   #24
Mizar
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

Please, DO NOT post who you think Hidden Hand is.
My bad for the last post. This is not a guessing game, blowing the cover of Hidden Hand will likely result in Project Avalon getting less information, not more.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:27 AM   #25
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Default Re: The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

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If you resonated with this material, it is highly recommended you check out the Law of One, cause it will most likely be the same. Keep an open mind!
Here is a link to The Law of One material

http://www.lawofone.info/

Peaceful Warrior did you choose your name from Dan Millmans book
"Way of the Peaceful Warrior"

That was my first spiritual book I read that taught me the lessons of who we are: infinite oneness..interconnected energy
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