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Old 11-12-2008, 12:42 PM   #1
Peer
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Default After the Great War....

Suppose the great war is over, mankind has diminished itself by 80-90% and governments have gone underground, taking their laws with them and great landslides have blocked their bunkers so we have to start from scratch.

Actually I mean to say: There are no rules for this thread, there are no laws, religion has proved to fail to save mankind and morals have proved to be lies.
Mankind has more or less returned to the stone-age as predicted by A. Einstein.

Now What?

How should a community (suppose you are not alone within a 1000km2) look like?

Should there be a leader? Natural leader or chosen?
Should it be a (strong) man or should only women lead from now on?

Equal men and women or more of one sex?
One man is enough to fertilise lots of women but on the other hand one woman could give birth to more or even many children so one woman could 'have' more men....

Should 'leaders' or specialists like doctors have previliges or should they be seen as servants to the group and therefore be rewarded lowest so the ones to lead will only do it out of passion and humbleness instead of the love of gain or power?

What status should children have?
There are cultures where children have absolute freedom and can do whatever they like and there are cultures like ours where children from the moment they are born are thaught to 'behave'.

How about sexuality, marriage, partnerships, no partnerships...

Should there be currency?

Should there be a ranking-system?
If yes: Based on what? Age? Fysical strength? Intelligence?

How big should a group be? 10? 100? 1000?
What would be the criteria to let a stranger/foreigner join the group?
Skills? Beauty? Contribution? Colour? Sex? Knowledge?

What would YOU have to offer to a group?


Please let your fantasy run free over this item because there are no more rules.....

Last edited by Peer; 11-12-2008 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:38 PM   #2
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Hi Peer,

I think a lot of us here have thought about this scenario. I think the immediate aftermath of dramatic and instantaneous climate change or war would be so jarring, so shocking, for most people that many of the old hatreds and "otherness" paradigms would shatter immediately. I don't think the Klansman will have much of a problem accepting fresh water from a black man immediately after such changes. It is sad to think that we might have to go through cataclysm before we learn how to be better humans. The caveat, of course, will be large urban areas. I think the urban psyche, not all but probably most, is so damaged, that these will be zones of great cruelty and desperation. I don't think I have anything constructive to offer there other than "get out." If you are single, it is relatively easy; if you have kids, it is harder to pack up on whim and leave, but they'll thank you for it in the years to come.

When one thinks about life six months to a year after such events, there is great excitement - the opportunities with a clean slate are fun to think about. However, as I and some others have discussed on my "Capitalism, Sustainability, and the Possibility of Global Collapse" thread, populations of over a few hundred can create complex problems that require organization and leadership. I think we tend to poo-poo government and economic systems because they have been so horrible for so long, but if practiced in an enlightened, "service to others" fashion, I think they could be effective tools for social organization. Then there is the issue of crime and punishment - some sort of system will have to be created for those who choose to exercise their personal sovereignty in a way that endangers the group or individuals (rape, murder, theft, etc.). Now lookit, if I had my way, we'd all be dancing naked with flowers in our hair, around the campfire, eating the products of the communal garden, and I would volunteer as hug enforcer. But, the sad reality is that we will always have to deal with the thugs and victimizers, the powermongers and perverts, and we will have to come up with a humanitarian way resolve these issues as communities of the future get larger.

There is nothing wrong with laws, so long as they are good laws. Again, I would say that we have a negative view of laws today because so many of them legalize stupidity and evil, while outlawing common sense and personal freedom. Laws, government, and economy need not be negative - I think they can be practiced equitably with humanitarianism at their core.

Good thread, and can't wait to read more (and for those of you interested in this type of discussion, please visit the thread I mentioned above, and leave your thoughts).
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:22 PM   #3
Peer
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Hi HC, why not make the other thread a link..

About laws: As long as we need laws we are on the lowest step of the ladder to enlightenment is what the buddhist says.

My goal is to make people think how a community should be organised.
If everything goes really wrong t here will be no more monetary system.
There will be some trading goods but that could be anything
I would like to know the fantasies of people on this subject.

I used to live in a small village of about 900 people and nothing ever happened there because of the social controle.
The one policeman we had died and there did n't come another one for years because simply nothing happened.
Now the village has grown, people don't know everybody anymore and so police is needed.
It could go up to a thousand people as far as I think because the stimulation of TV is gone and life is simple.
No advertising for have have have, cars, supermodels etc.

Last edited by Peer; 11-12-2008 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:24 PM   #4
THE eXchanger
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Default Re: After the Great War....

yeah, laws simply keep many employed

and, provide loop-holes

for some to get hanged
and, for some to avoid getting hanged !!!

we truly need to live with a set of virtues
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:39 PM   #5
Peer
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Default Re: After the Great War....

"we truly need to live with a set of virtues"

Like what kind of virtues?

I wonder if anybody here could honestly say he/she needs no rules.

Last edited by Peer; 11-12-2008 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:54 PM   #6
TranceAm
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer View Post
What would YOU have to offer to a group?

A huge bump on my forehead.

Last edited by TranceAm; 11-12-2008 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:54 PM   #7
Peer
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Quote:
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This will teach you never to argue with a tree.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:44 PM   #8
Trishsgate
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Great thread Peer and one many should start to think about.
Ok really stretching it here. If a community has a sense of treating all others fairly and equally can they not govern themselves without the use of laws? How many are ready for that? We have to learn to govern our lives totally. Don't step on another learn to be totally self-sufficient and manage your life with all its pros and cons. It may be ok to have someone as a speaker to discuss important projects again imho they should not be placed in a position above others again equality across the board. This is honestly the only way we are going to level the playing field for everyone as equals if that is what we wish to obtain.

I would also say keep the communities small say a thousand or so after that help to start a new community for the excess. Maybe a weekly get together meal to eat and discuss anything. Children should have a well balanced life, education, play and work. Remove the tv's and replace with music, arts and books this encourages creativity. I may get some backlash here but if any pc's survive a good teaching tool as far as education and sending alerts. I used to write educational programs for my children when they were young they advanced far more than other children in the same age group. They could tear down a pc and put it back together in no time it is just a tool if used correctly.

I think people should set their own guidelines for their personal affairs it is their business. As far as licenses for marriage, etc. a money maker which makes it a privilege and not a right to do something.

Bartering with some type of resources to trade with other communities should the need be there, which if you cut out wants there more than likely would not be a need. This eliminates the waste of natural resources and slave labor mentality.

Free energy alternatives need to be addressed.

Misspelled word edit
Love & Peace
Trish
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:59 PM   #9
Dan22
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it. Just look at early civilizations - and the majority of modern ones - to see how things will be. The strong, manipulative, aggressive ones will rule while the rest will follow like sheep. Once in a while someone or something better will come along, but will probably be quickly dispatched by evil. Just as the dream of the United States of America seems to be being taken away from us.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trishsgate View Post
I would also say keep the communities small say a thousand or so after that help to start a new community for the excess.
Therein lies the rub Trishgate - you have just described one of the principle functions of colonialism. When I talk with people informally about English colonialism in North America, I joke that the only reason Britain moved toward colonization is because Richard Haklyut was tired of stepping over bums and puddles of poo on the way to his office. Siphoning of the "excess" population was one of the express goals of colonization.

My point is this - we must force ourselves to work with each other no matter the community size - no matter the population numbers or spatial spread. And how do we maintain harmony within society and use the surrounding environment for our needs without some sort of organizational structure - if not laws? I'm not sure this was Peer's original intent with this thread, but it seems to me we should all be considering the value of government structures. If we find ourselves rebuilding as the result of cataclysmic Earth changes, rather than war, resource-use efficiency may be the more important issue.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:45 PM   #11
Trishsgate
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Thanks for the feedback HC and yes I agree it is the basic fundamentals of the colonists but I was thinking more on the lines of tribalism. IMHO we need to keep the numbers small for a few specific reasons listed below.

Too large and you lose the basic's of togetherness that bind people together. You would then have to implement control over the people to manage it via laws and a governing body.

Many may not have the same ideal or grow tired of a particular way an outlet is necessary to start another community that can still be linked with the original but may have different viewpoints still no struggle here just reorganizing groups into a more cohesive harmonious lifestyle that fits their needs. There does not have to be great difference within the two just a separate community also this serves to cultivate resources that can be exchanged between the two and and ally in times of need.

If resources are bad in one area the other may be able to pick up the need for a particular season this ensures survival of both groups if hard pressed to do so.

With regard for laws this is only required when people will not respect the rights of others is it not? Keep it small and like minded and the need for law disappears IMHO.

In regards to a governing body there again only needed\required when people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, when they cannot will not self govern their lives then a governing body steps in to "manage" their lives for them is this really the path we wish to take and how big should this governing body be, here in the US it is outrageous IMHO then come taxes et all to burden the populous for not doing what they should be doing in the first place.

A speaker that discusses issues with the whole yes a massive governing body I do not see a need IMHO.

There are more than this just a small list, would love to hear your or others input on this. As I truly need to understand the need for such in an enlightened community.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:29 PM   #12
Peer
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Hi Trish, I think you see my point.
In my OP I told I used to live in a village of about 900 people and we never needed the local policeman but once a year when the byciclerace would come through the village.
That was the moment of the year you would see this man in uniform.
The rest of the time you would find him in his garden if you needed some legal advise or have a paper signed.
There was a sort of village council and they had their meetings in the local pub which was rather hilarious.
I agree that groups shouldn't be much bigger because of the selfsupporting properties.
Transport will become difficult then.
I see a village, surrounded by fields, meadows and orchards where the food has to come from.
An energyplant, be it solar, magnetic or otherwise and a well.
Then of course you need a kind of sewersystem which itself could be part of the powersystem because of the methanegas.
Schools:
Let's talk about schools.
What should be taught in schools?
Telepathy? Astrology? Mathematics?
Sacred geometry?
Languages?
Philosofy? Medicins?
Classes or private teachings?
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:30 PM   #13
Trishsgate
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Thanks Peer and yes I seen your vision of the future was in alignment with some of mine. I have seen some visions of the future and it is truly spectacular. From researching history and talking with some elderly there was very little need of police, the people lived free from crime.

I have never had the privilege of living without laws and government I call intrusion which is what it has become to be. I live my life to the most part governing my own life and hoping others will do the same. I try to think of what effect my actions may cause upon another being before I do it not after and forge my choices based upon those options.

I like all your ideas on teachings really excellent subject material. Education should encourage creativity in all frames of thought. My family has some abilities and I encourage not discourage them if you know what I mean.

Education in some of the things taught in school but I would steer away from rote\robotic behavior and materialism it should prepare one for the future and a well being if you would like to call it psychic\spiritual gifts then yes. It should most likely be home schooled or within a small group let's get away from "peer" lol pressure and competitiveness.

IMO competitiveness is a fake sense of life it brings you into a sense of going up a ladder that in reality does not exist it makes you compete instead of cooperate and drives a wedge between you and others.

The ideas on energies & waste management are great throw in water energies as well and there you have it. I am not particularly fond of nuclear due to waste disposal with its nasty potential harmful side effects to the earth and consequentially ourselves.

Love & Peace
Trish
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:22 PM   #14
Peer
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Indeed, competition divides and cooperation unites.
When I think about schooling I think about art to learn discipline and craftmanship.
Philosofy and psycology as a tool to use with spirituality.
Not to manipulate but to understand better.

And of course geometry.
It's funny that Greg is writing about his key to the code and it is a very interesting thread.
If you would bring all that knowledge together in sort of 'machine' you would end up with a guitar .
So you could approach the same phenomenon from two or more sides.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:44 PM   #15
nigel2285
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer View Post
This will teach you never to argue with a tree.
try this link
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h1tzorj5y7Y
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:48 PM   #16
Baron Cross
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Default Re: After the Great War....

We should use these virtues Humility, Sacrifice, Compassion, Spirituality, Honor, Honesty, Valor, Fairness, Justice Ive always believe in protecting the weak from wicked bullies.

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Old 11-14-2008, 10:48 PM   #17
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Peer and Trishgate,

On a philosophical, idealistic level, I agree with you both. Personal responsibility should be the only governing mechanism in a perfect world. For that matter, in an idealistic world, we could depend on self interest alone - for all expressions of self interest would be moral, and beneficial for all.

But we don't live in an ideal world, and there will always be individuals who assert their interests over the public good. This might be where we are hitting a snag in synchronous thought.

Do you believe that after, say, a Nibiru spawned planetary storm, or the competitive factions of the PTB go at with all the might of their arsenals, the only people left will be those who share our idealism? I know there are those here who believe that yes, we are on the verge of leaving a reality where such human behavior exists, but I'm not sure that it works that way. I think that is wishful thinking, and it could leave many either unprepared, or at the mercy of unpleasant people.

That is the question that I struggle with when thinking of our future as a species. What are your thoughts? I read your posts, value your opinions, and would love to get your thoughts on just that question.
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:33 AM   #18
Tara
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Here's a place in existance now that is quite interesting. One site talks about projects and issues they work on as a community. The other talks about becoming a member and living there. I went to high school there. It was a wonderful experience, but I think the way it is set up now is better. Here is their "beliefs" section. Websites below.

Our Beliefs

The Farm community is comprised of many individuals, each with their own vision and ideas about spirituality as it applies to their daily life. The community was founded on the principle that we respect all religions and practices. There are many basic agreements that are telepathically understood, however in an effort to avoid the creation of dogma and ritual, no formal document exists that defines the spiritual beliefs of The Farm.

Recently several members of our Membership committee endeavored to create such a document, researching through previously published books and materials to identify statements that could still ring true for most members of the community. Although we make no claim that it represents every person completely, we present it here to give you some concept of our beliefs and agreements.
Basic Beliefs and Agreements of the Farm Community
As a church we live in community, and our reverence for life has always been central to our community ways. Within the Farm community people can live together and pursue a spiritual path that includes but is not limited to the following beliefs and agreements:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that there are non-material planes of being or levels of consciousness that everyone can experience, the highest of these being the spiritual plane.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that we are all one, that the material and spiritual are one,
and the spirit is identical and one in all of creation.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that marriage, childbirth and death are sacraments of our church.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree that child rearing and care of the elderly is a holy responsibility.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that being truthful and compassionate is instrumental to living together in peace and as a community.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to be honest and compassionate in our relationships with each other.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe in nonviolence and pacifism and are conscientiously opposed to war.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to resolve any conflicts or disagreements in a nonviolent manner.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to keep no weapons in the community.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that vegetarianism is the most ecologically sound and humane lifestyle for the planet, but that what a person eats does not dictate their spirituality.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree that livestock, fish, or fowl will not be raised in the community for slaughter.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that the abuse of any substance is counterproductive to achieving a high consciousness.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to strive for a high level of consciousness in our daily lives.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that the earth is sacred.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to be respectful of the forests, fields, streams and wildlife that are under our care.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree that the community is a wildlife sanctuary with no hunting for sport or food.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that humanity must change to survive.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to participate in that change by accepting feedback about ourselves.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that we, individually and collectively, create our own life experience.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We agree to accept personal responsibility for our actions.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
We believe that inner peace is the foundation for world peace.



http://www.thefarmcommunity.com/

http://www.thefarm.org/
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:57 AM   #19
Trishsgate
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Default Re: After the Great War....

Peer yes all arts for teaching and creative applications. I have seen Gregor's work and yes it holds much promise, I have questioned whether he is an incarnate or a walk-in fantastic work he is doing. I have been experimenting with fractals on the side myself. Flexibility seems to be a key component here.

HC I agree with you on the conception that we will not be alone I am not taking this lightly nor ignoring the implications. I am not in la la land or a daydream after all not only my life but children and others are involved it is not to be taken without complete forethought. What to do with this situation. Have you experimented much with protection I mean spiritual protection it can be very powerful and persuasive if used the correct way. This is something I wish people would discuss in more detail but I understand the reasons why it is not being done.
I could envision that had we not given our powers away that equality could have been attained and that we would not be in the position we are today. Of course time after time a select few always manage and IMO abuse the many this has to change direction. It starts within us as individuals that we are not going to go that route anymore.
I would guess that some type of spiritual or physical guard may be put in place but that would be up to each community as to the particular type. I have to say that in most cases when the opposition had armament and the others did not we all know the outcome, but I question whether any type spiritual force was ever in place.

Love & Peace
Trish
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Trishsgate View Post
Peer yes all arts for teaching and creative applications. I have seen Gregor's work and yes it holds much promise, I have questioned whether he is an incarnate or a walk-in fantastic work he is doing. I have been experimenting with fractals on the side myself. Flexibility seems to be a key component here.

HC I agree with you on the conception that we will not be alone I am not taking this lightly nor ignoring the implications. I am not in la la land or a daydream after all not only my life but children and others are involved it is not to be taken without complete forethought. What to do with this situation. Have you experimented much with protection I mean spiritual protection it can be very powerful and persuasive if used the correct way. This is something I wish people would discuss in more detail but I understand the reasons why it is not being done.
I could envision that had we not given our powers away that equality could have been attained and that we would not be in the position we are today. Of course time after time a select few always manage and IMO abuse the many this has to change direction. It starts within us as individuals that we are not going to go that route anymore.
I would guess that some type of spiritual or physical guard may be put in place but that would be up to each community as to the particular type. I have to say that in most cases when the opposition had armament and the others did not we all know the outcome, but I question whether any type spiritual force was ever in place.

Love & Peace
Trish
I don't discuss spiritual protection with anyone, simply because I get the sense that the majority here on Avalon have a "system" in place, and the mere suggestion of something different to what is taught by many is immediately percieved as an insult. But spiritual protection for a community, in my mind, is impossible. The only spirit we can protect is our own. That, I think, is why I dwell so much on the physical preparation of physical communities. Communities can come to together in spirit, but spirits cannot share community. Does that make sense?
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:55 AM   #21
Trishsgate
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Default Re: After the Great War....

HC, That would depend on how many spiritual people are protecting just my thinking here and correct me if I am wrong if you are inside said community that community gains some protection from your being does it not which is why instructional classes in protection may be in order, non-violent of course it is time for the hidden knowledge to come out for the benefit of all that wish it. Protecting ones home, environment, community, and family via spiritual means is not only possible it will be imperative. I say this in all humility it is not for all and I respect each and everyone's own belief system what ever that may be. Some will prefer other methods and that is fine I am just suggesting alternatives as I am and have always felt there is more than one option there are many.


Love & Peace
Trish
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