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Old 02-23-2010, 08:01 PM   #76
4Q529
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Originally Posted by truthseekerdan View Post
Thank you 4Q529 for sharing your knowledge, and also clarifying a few things!
Please feel free to share more on this thread.
Well, with specific regards to the title of this thread, I would suggest that "Lucifer" is equivalent to the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'--that is, the 'fallen' consciousness; while the term "Mi cha el" represents the "observing consciousness" Created 'by and in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27); represented by the "rider on the white horse" in the Revelation of John.

Similarly, the "serpent" of Genesis 3 and the "dragon" of Revelations 12 symbolize the 'movement' of self-reflection, which is the origin of the duality and the 'fallen' consciousness; the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" and the "beast of the sea" represent the consciousness of the "self"; and the 'fig leaves' and the "beast of the earth" represent the consciousness and the thoughts of the 'thinker'. (This is implied in Saying #37 in the Gospel of Thomas.)

Thus, the warfare between "Mi cha el and the dragon" is a warfare at the level of consciousness between the "observing consciousness" and the 'movement' of self-reflection, which is the origin of the duality and the 'fallen' consciousness consisting of the "self" and the 'thinker'.
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:10 PM   #77
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

4Q529 ~ Nice insights, I appreciate. I agree that Lucifer represents from an esoteric viewpoint the fallen consciousness, the duality consciousness, the identification with thoughts and Michael can represent Oneness reality ~ Being fully present eternally Now.

For me, I agree with your interpretations, I suggest that the "fall into duality" is not so much self reflection, as it is acceptance of the illusions that self is separate from the whole. Reflecting on the illusions of separation and coming to accept them as beliefs, to me this is the cause of the fall.

Self awareness is reality. However, it is also True that we are all One, we all are emanations from the Source of Beingness.

Our Divine State of Being is knowing, seeing clearly that we are One, yet still remaining I AM, individualization's of the One. Only when we act from our own illusions of separation do we create ego, do we block the flow of the Divine through our Beingness.

The observer is Self aware, it just sees that while it is unique, it is part of All that IS, it is not separate from it. Oneness is reality, but Oneness is not sameness. Rather it is infinite diversity co-creating eternally Now.

~ Espavo ~
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Old 02-23-2010, 10:54 PM   #78
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Originally Posted by 4Q529 View Post
Well, with specific regards to the title of this thread, I would suggest that "Lucifer" is equivalent to the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'--that is, the 'fallen' consciousness; while the term "Mi cha el" represents the "observing consciousness"

to think is a sin

awareness is not


think about it lol




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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
I suggest that the "fall into duality" is not so much self reflection, as it is acceptance of the illusions that self is separate from the whole.

this illusion

this moon in the well and the man in the mirror

is the Reflection of the Self

Last edited by RedeZra; 02-23-2010 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:08 PM   #79
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

Nothing wrong with thinking. However, being identified with thoughts is the problem. Thinking we are the thinker, that's the ego, that's the suffering, that's the limitation.

Being in the Now ~ Zero point Energy ~ where all things are possible ~ is I believe the Way ~

Just BE

I would say personally: That's enlightenment
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:11 PM   #80
4Q529
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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4Q529 ~ Nice insights, I appreciate. I agree that Lucifer represents from an esoteric viewpoint the fallen consciousness, the duality consciousness, the identification with thoughts and Michael can represent Oneness reality ~ Being fully present eternally Now.

For me, I agree with your interpretations, I suggest that the "fall into duality" is not so much self reflection, as it is acceptance of the illusions that self is separate from the whole. Reflecting on the illusions of separation and coming to accept them as beliefs, to me this is the cause of the fall.
This is a crucial issue: the realization that there is a 'movement' of self-reflection, or a pirouette of consciousness which is prior to all thought and image; but, at the same time, the origin of that image. I am not talking here about reflecting upon an image or reflecting upon a thought. What I am talking about is the movement that creates the duality in the first place.

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Self awareness is reality.
A crucial error.

Reality is what exists prior to the 'movement' of self-reflection; prior to the duality. Prior to the 'movement' of self-reflection there is neither space (division and duality) nor time (thought).

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However, it is also True that we are all One,
To say "we" are "one" is to destroy the very meaning of language, which is a quite serious error. Ultimately, every act of violence is based upon the destruction of the very meaning of language.

Prior to the 'movement' of self-reflection there is no "I", no "you", no "we" and no "they".

That is the state of unity; but "we" cannot be that unity because each of us self-reflects into an "I".

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we all are emanations from the Source of Beingness.

Our Divine State of Being is knowing, seeing clearly that we are One, yet still remaining I AM, individualization's of the One.
The words "I am" indicate self-reflection; and, hence, duality; the purpose of which is to maintain through thought the temporal continuity of the dualistic "self".


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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
Only when we act from our own illusions of separation do we create ego, do we block the flow of the Divine through our Beingness.

The observer is Self aware, it just sees that while it is unique, it is part of All that IS, it is not separate from it. Oneness is reality, but Oneness is not sameness. Rather it is infinite diversity co-creating eternally Now.

~ Espavo ~
The "observing consciousness" is consumed in the very act of observation, leaving only the knowledge itself.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:30 PM   #81
4Q529
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Nothing wrong with thinking.
Of course there is something wrong with 'thinking'.

It is a violation of Occam's Razor.

There is no 'thinking' and no 'thinker'.

There is only thought.

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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
However, being identified with thoughts is the problem.
But that is precisely what is indicated by the word "thinking" in the first place: an identification as the one who performs the verb "to think".

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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
Thinking we are the thinker, that's the ego, that's the suffering, that's the limitation.
It's helpful not to introduce another word here such as "ego". Best to simplify things to a "self" and a 'thinker'.

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Originally Posted by 14 Chakras View Post
Being in the Now ~ Zero point Energy ~ where all things are possible ~ is I believe the Way ~

Just BE

I would say personally: That's enlightenment
But the word "enlightenment" indicates a thought 'thought' by a 'thinker'.

In other words, one wants to identify with the particular thought of enlightenment when it is such identification which is the problem in the first place.
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:50 PM   #82
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

Perhaps God has no purpose to creation other than a bad dream?

My personal viewpoint is otherwise.

I believe it is simply a false belief by the 'thinker' that 'thinks' that beyond thought there is nothing. I do not agree with this.

I do Believe, that BE-yond thought is BEing, the realms of Pure Being. There is indeed infinite variety, differentiation and uniqueness in the realms of Pure Being beyond thought and beyond duality.

And yes, I believe very much there is Pure awareness while maintaing uniqueness, uniqueness in Oneness.

Duality is the relativity of concepts. Here we are we are having a dualistic discussion somewhat, as it is a bit 'my belief is right and yours is wrong', this indeed is duality. In reality is One yet there are infinitely differing ways of looking at Truth, and they have their own reality from different perspectives.

However, stress the importance of this (my understanding):

However, Oneness is not sameness. Consciousenss itSelf is not dualistic.

Being I AM is not dualistic, it is reality. We are individualization's of Oneness, not sameness. We are unique. We are Divine Blue Prints here in schoolroom Earth to learn and BE More as we move higher and higher into the schoolroom of infinity.

Enlightenment is not about disapearing, it's about Being. It's about Being below all that we are above ~ Uniquely So.

Free will is a gift. As we Awaken to our True identity ~ we Be the Divine Being that we really are, not the same being, we are each unique, but indeed, we are One.

Can the thinker wrap it's head around Oneness not being sameness? Indeed it cannot. Truth is Gnosis. Not a belief.

Only in Truth, in Gnosis, will we Awaken to the Truth that sets us Free to BE.

~ Espavo ~

Last edited by 14 Chakras; 02-23-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:52 AM   #83
4Q529
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Duality is the relativity of concepts. Here we are we are having a dualistic discussion somewhat, as it is a bit 'my belief is right and yours is wrong', this indeed is duality.
Thoughts, concepts and beliefs are merely one element of the duality. This is crucial.

Although thoughts and beliefs perpetuate the duality, they are not the origin of the duality.

Duality originates in the creation of the "self"/"not self" by means of the 'movement' of self-reflection; that self-reflection being the origin of the 'fallen' consciousness. What is referred to as "the Fall" is, in fact, the 'movement' of self-reflection itself. (This is symbolized by the "serpent" in Genesis 3 and the "dragon" in Revelations 12.)

In other words, the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker' has not been Created by God at all; it is, in fact, self-created.

Rather, it is the "observing consciousness" prior to self-reflection that has been Created 'by and in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27).

In other words, all of Western psychology is the psychology of the 'fallen' consciousness.

Thus, I do not want you to believe what I am saying so much as see what I am seeing.

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Being I AM is not dualistic, it is reality.
Thought is intrinsically dualistic. There is no escape from this. This is not a thought. It is something that can be directly observed. Either it is observed or it is not observed. Those who do not observe this cannot be told how to observe this.

But a person cannot say "I" without performing the 'movement' of self-reflection. That is simply not possible. And, the instant that there is self-reflection, there is the fracturing of reality into "self"/"not self". That is the origin of space. That is division and duality. This cannot be escaped. Your "self" is over there and my "self" is over here. And it is thought which maintains the temporal continuity of the spatial division of "self"/"not self". That is the very purpose of thought; and the origin of violence is all of the attempts to preserve the temporal continuity of the "self".

This is one of the fundamental Teachings of the Gospel of Thomas.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:14 AM   #84
14 Chakras
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Thus, I do not want you to believe what I am saying so much as see what I am seeing.
Yes indeed, I feel that I Am seeing what you are saying, and indeed I Am not believing it

That being said, I respect different take on things, there is always More. I'm sharing my personal understanding, which differs a little below:

Beyond thought is Being. Space is not created duality, rather through the Divine balance in symbiotic Unity of Father Mother consciousness ~ Alpha Omega ~ Electro Magnetism.

If you wish to call the balance between Father Mother / Electro Magnetism : Divine Duality, then that is an acceptable term, however noting, Father Mother are complimentary, intertwined and in perfect balance with each other creating Divine Being ~ in Oneness.

Ego duality is the fallen consciousness where we have relative concepts such as relative good vs. relative evil, when in reality, Oneness is reality.

Is there Being beyond duality? I suggest we are about to find out my friend as this is indeed what many will soon be demonstrating ~ the path to and of Christhood ~ the great Awakening is Now ~ and there will even be some here, that participate in this forum that are among the first fruits, the first 10,000 to Awaken and Be below all the they are above beyond the illusions of separation ~


Go with the flow the River of Life where all Be's MORE

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Old 02-24-2010, 12:34 PM   #85
4Q529
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Default Re: Who Are Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer?

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Yes indeed, I feel that I Am seeing what you are saying, and indeed I Am not believing it

That being said, I respect different take on things, there is always More. I'm sharing my personal understanding, which differs a little below:

Beyond thought is Being. Space is not created duality, rather through the Divine balance in symbiotic Unity of Father Mother consciousness ~ Alpha Omega ~ Electro Magnetism.

If you wish to call the balance between Father Mother / Electro Magnetism : Divine Duality, then that is an acceptable term, however noting, Father Mother are complimentary, intertwined and in perfect balance with each other creating Divine Being ~ in Oneness.

Ego duality is the fallen consciousness where we have relative concepts such as relative good vs. relative evil, when in reality, Oneness is reality.

Is there Being beyond duality? I suggest we are about to find out my friend as this is indeed what many will soon be demonstrating ~ the path to and of Christhood ~ the great Awakening is Now ~ and there will even be some here, that participate in this forum that are among the first fruits, the first 10,000 to Awaken and Be below all the they are above beyond the illusions of separation ~


Go with the flow the River of Life where all Be's MORE
Two comments here.

1) The origin of your words differs from the origin of my words. Your words consist, mostly, of thought. Thoughts can be read in a book or conveyed between one person and another or 'thought' by a 'thinker'. The knowledge conveyed by my words, on the other hand, did not originate in any book, nor was it received from any other person, nor is it something that I have 'thought'. It originated in one specific Revelation which occurred at the level of an Experience rather than thought: the Revelation of the Memory of Creation (Genesis 2:7); which Revealed the consciousness of man at the Moment of Creation, "the Fall", and the characteristics of the 'fallen' consciousness.

2) The implications of this are that, as expressed in symbols in Genesis 3, Moses had a knowledge of human consciousness deeper than and far beyond the knowledge of all of the Western psychiatrists and the Eastern mystics put together. This Knowledge was prior to any Doctrine of the Chosen people, or Doctrine of the 'M'essiah, or Doctrine of "resurrection", or any other Doctrine Revealed to the prophets of the monotheistic religions; a Knowledge which continues from Genesis 3 through the Gospel of Thomas and the Revelation of John.

What I am saying here is that the only way of resolving the conflicts between Judaism, Christianity and Islam--the only way of diminishing bloodshed between Jews, Christians and Muslims--is for there to be a return to the fundamental Revelations received by Moses and the prophets about the very origin of human consciousness itself and the characteristics of the 'fallen' consciousness (since it is the 'fallen' consciousness which is the very origin of conflict and violence) as well as the understanding of the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'--which would instantaneously strike at the very foundation of the conflicts in the Middle East.

Thus, the censorship of this kind of Knowledge by the mainstream and the Internet media is the proximate cause of the approaching horrors in the Middle East.

And the only conceivable way of diminishing those horrors is for this Knowledge to be conveyed to as many people as possible and as quickly as possible; which is the purpose of my website.
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