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What Does It Mean ? What does this all mean for the Ground Crew ?

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Old 11-25-2009, 10:17 AM   #1
Steve_A
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Default How can we trust scientists any more?

Hi Everybody,

It seems that the 'scientists' at the University of East Anglia were manipulating not only data, but also peer group papers. For those who don't know, peer group papers are documents about subjects that have been revised and agreed to by other independent scientists.

The whole manipulation of this system, the use of one scientist within the clique as a 'peer' to another to agree to their theory, opens a huge can of worms not only to the subject of climate change, but ANY scientific subject.

We are at the stage now where we can't even trust what were once trusted science magazines to give out the results of a TRUE research.

This is damning for every aspect of science. How do we not know now if 'science' proving that chocolate is good for your blood pressure was not financed in the back rooms by Nestlé, or that a glass of beer a day helps keep your heart healthier was not financed by Anheuser Busch?

Does this mean that we all have to turn our backs on science and take a step back in time and rely on "old wives tales" again to solve our problems?

This last piece of 'research' by an anonymous person in the computers of a British University is very, very damning and because of apparent hoodwinking puts the whole of the scientific community under the microscope.

Best regards,

Steve
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Maybe it is the concept of the "noble lie" showing itself. My understanding is that is the way the elite think: they think they are superior and should therefore rule and whatever it takes to control the masses is quite appropriate. I guess scientists are caught up in this system.

I guess the first thing we should do before even considering any scientific report is to follow the money. Who funds the institution the scientist works with?

One thing I like is to always be able to observe and listen to the source of any assertion - to be able to read body language and listen to the tone of voice.

We really do have our work cut out for us!
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:44 PM   #3
morguana
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

steve, we cant trust blindly anyone really, scientists included, look at egyptology.....lost of things withheld there and the nutitional info our gov sends out about eating 5 a day......well it should be 8 to 10 portions or veg or fruit......so i guess it all comes down to human error, ego and blindness.
just have to keep the human condition at the back of ones mind when looking at anything.
bou x
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:02 PM   #4
gibonos
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post
Hi Everybody,

It seems that the 'scientists' at the University of East Anglia were manipulating not only data, but also peer group papers. For those who don't know, peer group papers are documents about subjects that have been revised and agreed to by other independent scientists.


Steve

Hi All

Here you have an excellent example how most people would deny any facts anyways: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHH9J...layer_embedded

just wait till the second part, some people just could not handle paradigm shift especially when they prosper from it.
There is no question that climate chagne is happening and we shouldn't pollute our home planet.
Till greed and selfintrest is the driver we wont have real change.

I'm of the opinion that all statistics are rigged, just even from quantum level the observer is influencing the research, not mentioning that particular grups who sponsor those experiments would favour certain results.

Gibonos

Best way to start would be to put whatever resources we have to best use.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:43 PM   #5
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Angry Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

I agree Steve, I just recently watched an up-date on the monsanto gmo controversy, and was taking back by the way the revolving door system (governnent<> corp boards) > which is legal and accepted here in the US > has totally corrupted the US food and heathcare systems (industry).
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:19 PM   #6
Tango
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

It's all going to change shortly... Because people all over feel the same way.

Corporations will have to change the way they do business... People are NOT

going to be sooo trusting of businesses... Everything is going to change !!!

People, now understand those things in the sky are REAL... All, those things...

There will be more accountability... Because the people will demand it.

Trooly,


Tango

Last edited by Tango; 11-25-2009 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Science was never there for our betterment, it was simply another tool for our enslavement.

Science is funded by money, whoever holds the money dictates the "facts" which are then fed to the public as truth. Science is really and truly a bunch of lies mixed with a few truths set together in order to mold public opinion and societies accepted version of "reality".

Its good in a way that this has happened because it might open peoples eyes a bit to the way things really are, i doubt it somehow, but it might.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:35 PM   #8
TheObserver
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

It's one thing to be anti-corrupt scientist, it's another thing to be anti-science.
Depending on altitude, air pressure and such water boils at around 100 C/212 F and freezes at around 0 C/32 F. Is this in dispute?
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

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It's one thing to be anti-corrupt scientist, it's another thing to be anti-science.
Depending on altitude, air pressure and such water boils at around 100 C/212 F and freezes at around 0 C/32 F. Is this in dispute?
Thats not my point at all


And i think that deep down you know that.

What is my point is that "science" when confronted with indisputable evidence will not recognise that isac neutons brain did not know everything (if anything other then some very minor details when compared to the scale of things) . Any establishment that rests its laurels on everything that a man said well over 400 years ago needs a smack on the ars€. For a start, the guy was wrong on one very major thing that has kept people a slave to automobiles, electricity, and all of those other things we spend 60% of our money on. "To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction" ... and you stand there and defend an institue that promotes this to this very day? May i ask, who's side are you on?

Im none for science, all for truth. And truth needs not be segregated into little frictional groups (science ; physics, biology, spirituality et al) that contradict each other around every cornor. If science was as fantastic and reliable as most people think it to be then it would indoctrinate every part of reality into its teachings instead of accepting some very evident things and dismissing some other not so evident but extremely important stuff, ie ; spirituality.


The very word science is now defined by its very existance. If at one time it defended truth above all else then so be it, but as it stands the very word science denotes the very system that has been used to enslave the human mind. And for that the very word itself no longer stands as a representation of truth, it stands for a representation of control.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Some things are constant and there is no question about them, most of them are not tactical in economic/control sense.
However if a scientist tells me i.e. that sun exposure is bad for your plants and I somehow see that they grow better then in a shade, would I listen or which is more controversial that fish are good for you "recent experiment shows". Question has the be asked what fish, where from, how much mercury does it hold, is the color real and is it good for ones health. The fact they are good for Smith it does not mean that Brown wouldn't die from very same batch.
It's all relative and is up to the observer to decide what is good and what is not.
There might be some suggestion, common knowledge but not in a system based on profit and greed, not betterment of humanity.

To show another side, would it be possible:
- to create full body analisys to design perfect diet (one that would eliminate imbalances) for everyone.
- to make machines to work for us,
- to have cars that don't break, not saying antigravity crafts for everyone or teleportals, instead of bus stops :-)
- to have a device, where you only supply hemp fiber, desing your own outfit, bum bum 30 sec and you have a perfect fit, like designers clothing.
Technology is there we just have to put into use.

I think I'll another thread about what would like to see in the world, that would have the most impact :-)

Gibonos
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:31 PM   #11
TheObserver
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

The water still boils the same for atheists and religious people alike. Inconsistencies between disciplines will eventually work themselves out.
I guess i just don't like angry anti-(fill in the blank)-ism.
Again i think you're angry at corruption, not repeatable experiments.
Follow the money, use discernment, but don't whitewash all science as evil.
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:14 PM   #12
Jack
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

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The water still boils the same for atheists and religious people alike. Inconsistencies between disciplines will eventually work themselves out.
I guess i just don't like angry anti-(fill in the blank)-ism.
Again i think you're angry at corruption, not repeatable experiments.
Follow the money, use discernment, but don't whitewash all science as evil.
My apologies, to put it in a way thats easier to understand ; you may as well take that word "science" and throw it out the window. My point being, the word science is now discredited and tarnished, the very word now stands for lies, ridicule, corruption, imprisonment.

The word science is where my beef is at, not the actual persuit of truth. The persuit of truth is not science, they are completely different concepts. Its like using the word ba$tard.. we all know it means a child born to illegitimate parents (unmarried) but the word means something entirely different now, just like the word "science".

We need a new word for this stuff... "truth" maybe?
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:00 AM   #13
TheObserver
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Ok Jack, i got your point, but there's nothing new about it, flat earthers, and earth centrics paraded their biased 'experts'
against Copernicus et al back in the day and the future will have it's share of controversy as well, but in the end
'repeatably observed truth' will always rise above superstition and 'unobservable assumptions'.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

I have very little trust of anyone or anything. This is not a psychologically well-balanced way to live...but it seems that to really get at the truth about anything...you have to listen to a bunch of diverse sources...and then read between the lines. Everything seems to be up for grabs.

I really like the Avalon approach...where people from around the world view articles, videos, and opinions...and then proceed to evaluate and comment. This teaches us Thought Triage.

I don't even trust myself. That's why I mostly ask questions...even when I think I know the answers.

Check out this thread http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...orthodoxymoron regarding unconventional science and even unconventional biblical studies...with numerous examples of conventional views being supported by dishonest scholarship and research. What trouble me...is that once individuals and organizations go public with a view...they then proceed to defend this view with all manner of legitimate and illegitimate material...rather than honestly searching for truth. Lying seems to be the norm.

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Old 11-26-2009, 10:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

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Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
I have very little trust of anyone or anything. This is not a psychologically well-balanced way to live...

I don't even trust myself. That's why I mostly ask questions...even when I think I know the answers.
If you change the word trust to belief your psychological profile improves

I think an habit of questioning and review of all the facts - even well established ones - is a very good way to live.

We are going to witness more and more - established norms are already breaking down to some extent. The markets are a good example. That said I think most of the changes are the inside (as in inner being) at the moment - most of the scientists are busy looking outwards though and I think perhaps they are missing the fun - even if they are telling the truth.

A..
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

I'm trying to be orthodox and unorthodox...simultaneously...hence orthodoxymoron. There has to be a sweet-spot where questioning is done in a non-offensive, non-abrasive, non-disruptive manner. Believing everything and just following orders is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand...being a rebel without a clue...causes even more problems.

When I was a child...I was once in the basement of a church...and an Illuminati sort of man (whatever that means)...whom I had never seen before...starting talking to me...and told me I was a mother's-son and very gullible. I never saw him again. He was sort of like the 'Satan' who tempted Jesus in 'The Last Temptation of Christ'. The sad part was that he was absolutely correct. I'm still that way!

Scientists need to listen to classical music...while they look at the stars with their 14 inch Celestron telescopes. Scientists need to focus on nature as a whole...rather than on compartmentalized facts and figures. They need to make science a spiritual discipline. Many probably do...but a lot more should. I recall speaking with the director of a planetarium regarding the enjoyment of science...and he stated that a non-scientist may be in a better position to enjoy science...because of the fact that it's not a job. I'm getting ready to order a 12 inch Dobsonian reflector telescope.

I look forward to a time when the Deep Underground Military Bases and Secret Laboratories are opened periodically to the general public...and where nothing horrific is being done...ever. Why does this world have to be such a stupid and dangerous place...in so many sophisticated ways? This really does seem to be an insane-asylum.

I often wonder if Nicola Tesla was unwittingly exposed to forbidden technology in the Vatican Library...which opened a Pandora's Box...which included the World Wars, Nuclear Weapons, Deep Underground Military Bases, and the Secret Space Program. I tend to think that there is a lot of technology which we are not morally competent to handle.

BTW...Steve A...have you seen the current issue of 'The Economist'? It features Brazil...and the cover shows the big Jesus taking off like a rocket! This gives the term 'Flaming Jesus' (a type of drink) a whole new meaning!

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Old 11-27-2009, 10:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Science was never there for our betterment, it was simply another tool for our enslavement.

Science is funded by money, whoever holds the money dictates the "facts" which are then fed to the public as truth. Science is really and truly a bunch of lies mixed with a few truths set together in order to mold public opinion and societies accepted version of "reality".

Its good in a way that this has happened because it might open peoples eyes a bit to the way things really are, i doubt it somehow, but it might.
Yes, Jack, this is a very deep thinking and high wisdom comment!

You are right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post
Does this mean that we all have to turn our backs on science and take a step back in time and rely on "old wives tales" again to solve our problems?
I think yes, we must turn to "old wives tales" even though some of it maybe are false, at least by doing that we are sure that no others will benefit ripping our money, as in the case of this tainted science! Money, of course, they use against us!
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: How can we trust scientists any more?

Unfortunately, it is not new or surprising that scientists are or can manipulate data, as well, have it or them controlled.

In relation to the other perspectives being presented, the rabbit hole actually goes much deeper.


You have to remember, in order to control a planet and those whom reside on it, you must control the development, evolvement, self expression, knowledge and wealth of the populace, including their brightest minds (in terms of science). This makes them dependent, and limited.

It goes deeper than merely funding to withold, control, and manipule data via institutions or "the" education system in place ("the" meaning "not ours, nor for our benefit").

What is actually at play is limiting knowledge and/or access to the mathematics and concepts that prevent such evolvement, and advancement/development. This is why we can't figure out how so many things that existed thousands of years ago, cannot be fathomed today, aside from extraterrestrial origin.

However, evolution does not recognize limits when intelligence continues to sprout forward. Therefore, you will always have those (scientists, and us) whom will break free of the confines of that which they are taught. Think of Tesla as an example, and what do those whom wish to control do with a Tesla? You seize and suppress, so that the concept and mathematics discovered does not carry over to the populace. Hence, control is maintained.

Unfortunately, if you add the belief systems of each generation of our scientists, archaeologists, physicists, etc, you unfortunately are that much more limited because you will not accept, believe, or think of that outside of those personal belief systems.

That rabbit hole is b**** indeed.
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