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Old 12-04-2008, 06:46 PM   #101
feeler
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Default Re: Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life (brand new documentary...

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I trust you'll be able to find some information on the pyramids. And you don't really need to go much further than that with the pineal gland, we need to focus on stopping the new world order and the things that are happening to us right now in realy, they are depopulating us as we speak by controlling and manipulating the food, water and air, and weather. This is a nightmare we live in right now we have to relize that to even begin to fix it. And not worry about our 'pineal gland', or 'defeating the evil in our ego', and 'seeing beyond 5 sense reality' and even finding out the origin of man because at the moment we have to accept that it cannot be known for certain. So many of these new age type thought patterns that make ourselves our own enemy. Though, it is our fault in a way for letting this happen to us, but we can't keep blaming ourself, we have to forgive ourselves and not let this happen anymore. We are a long ways from serious solutions and changes right now, because we are so far behind. We need to be worried about surviving as a species and keeping this information alive for the next generation, we need to make sure there is a next generation. This is something bigger than each one of us, this is for everyone who has ever lived and everyone who deserves a chance to live in the future.

As for humans apppearing after dinosaurs. I don't know. I don't have all the answers on the origns of man. I have my suspicions and many opinions, but I don't think we truly can know for sure. The sciences used to tell us we do know are not sound. Science is a very effective tool, because it can be used so deceptively to convince the public no other thing could be possible, especially with the use of statistics, when in fact scientific theories change by the minute. I don't deny it is possible for species to change over time, obviously many speices are very adaptable, especially humans. But a simple truth like that can easily be twisted and used and attached to conditions and ideas that aren't necessarily true and used by the ruling elite to control the public. With evolution we have the survival fo the fittest, darwinism, eugenics essentially, as well coming with it often is atheism and essentially the belief that we are worthless and nothing special. And to go deeper they have the spiritual atheists who make it out to be an amazingly beautiful thing that we are worthless, it is such an honor to be so lucky that science just happened to result this way so that we have lives like we do. All information is managed for purposes you see.
Doom

If you don't have all the answers on the origins of man, at least be open to the possibility of alien intervention/hybridization of humans. Also consider the validity of recent scientific findings (e.g. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...ncia_adn07.htm).

Doom, I am doing the best I can to alert the others; even on a dentist chair, I would tell about the CIA drug trafficking. I've reminded others (Americans) whether they would like the national heath care program to be centralized and administered by a small group of psychopaths. I have shared my concerns on the AIDS program, the 9/11 controlled demolitions, the HARRP, etc.

If the concept/acceptance of ET presence is outside your comfort zone and not your primary concern, I'd respect your free will.


-feeler


p.s. This'd be my last post in this J.M. thread. Many thanks to the inputs from milk and honey.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:17 PM   #102
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Default Re: Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life (brand new documentary...

The mention of Phylos was obviously going to be a red flag for you Doom. Presumably it won't matter to you that Olivers contact with Phylos was the first to deal with many of the subjects it dealt with at the time. Subjects which have since found their way into the body of "new age" literature in 1001 ways. But like i was saying about Jesus' life and teachings, just because they've been hijacked by shadowy forces, doesn't make the original release of these concepts tainted. [I'm not saying either that their reappearance everywhere is the tainted work of the PTB. Not at all.]

Interestingly, what we've both agreed about the PTB in regard to their funnelling technology to themselves is also true of the brotherhood of spiritual adepts that i'm talking about. By their own account they have kept the spiritual and scientific knowledge safe from the destructions of past civilisations. Apart from the occasional adept who incarnates on earth to teach the people (ie, Jesus, Guatama and others) they've lived apart from the masses for ages in mountain retreats around the world since they withdrew from the impending cataclysms that rocked the world.

In 1883-4 the book asserted that Mount Shasta is one of the retreats of the ancient brotherhood and just to illustrate what i was saying earlier about how the PTB hijack the identity of the adepts (ie, Jesus) the so called "alien saviors" are already pretending that they occupy the retreat in Mt Shasta. By doing so, the "aliens" have already hijacked the identity of the brotherhood and released reams of dodgy channelings - which as always must contain a fair degree of truth to be attractive - in an attempt to confuse truth seekers with promises of external salvation via UFOs and thereby derail the work of the real adepts by diverting our attention to "aliens". I suppose that is enough to make your head spin in disbelief Doom. "My God! Am I expected to sort that out?"

Fasten your seatbelt Doom i feel a lot of presumptions coming on... my own that is...

If from your POV you believe that the entire body of info in the "new age" is tainted from a tainted source which you are convinced is a psy-op of the PTB -- info that in the 1880s had never been previously released yet has been subsequently verified - at least the high tech predictions - metaphysical info which has frequently been copied by plaigerists sponsored by the PTB as i mentioned -- then you can reach no other conclusion than that Phylos' contact with Oliver was also part a psy-op, no? After all, his information permeates the "new age"does it not?. And if the entire "new age" is false then it is case closed. If, in your conviction you have never identified a credible source of spiritual information then maybe there is no spiritual source? Maybe nobody exists beyond the material plane? After all, the PTB are masquerading as spiritual and alien beings. Then eveything of the like must undoubtedly be their own invention?

If 99 apples in a barrel are rotten at the core then the 100th must be also? If there are satisfying and logical reasons for the rotteness of the 99 then the 100th - which looks very much the same on the outside - is rotten for sure?

If the spiritual ideas and info given by Phylos (and others over time) is well motivated from a spiritual source and is indeed reflective of truth then you might reconsider all your blanket dismissals.

I appreciate that this would be very confronting because at this point it appears to me that you cannot allow yourself to consider the possibility that any spiritual teaching which you associate with the "new age" - even if it was hijacked by the PTB to reinforce their own agenda - cannot possibly have been originally released with good intentions from a spiritual source. If you cannot then why not consider the question from a spiritual POV rather than only the PTB's POV and what you consider serves them? Some questions you might consider are... " in what i've been calling the "new age movement" what is true and what is not"? "What is possible and what is not"... and ... "what is plausable from a spiritual POV and what is not".

As you said to me earlier.... "just because something is possible doesn't make it true". Agreed. But doesn't make it untrue either. And just because we have TPTB wrapping themselves in a shield of truth in order to sugarcoat their own cache of lies doesn't mean we can safely assume we have all the truths identified simply because we believe we've identified all the lies. Maybe, given that TPTB make such resourceful use of truth as well as lies, you've mistaken some truth for lies? I know you're convinced in relation to the subjects we're talking about that it is others who are confused in that regard and indeed they are but maybe you are too. Allow yourself to consider the possibility that, on crucial points of reality, you may have confused truth for lies. And then try to approach each source of info with these things in mind.

I submit to you 'Horatio' that there is far more in heaven and earth than man dreams. But man can more than dream. He can know. With perfect self-knowledge (knowledge of the self as spirit) comes the knowledge of all else. That's what Jesus taught and is what i mentioned earlier when emphasizng the need for spiritual discernment of external information.

That's what Jesus meant when he said:

"Man cannot live by bread alone - (material forces, external sources)
"But by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD"

Where is the "LORD'S mouth"? In his 'kingdom' with the rest of 'him'. Where's that? "WITHIN YOU".

Another question for you...

Earlier i asked if you were a 'materialist' and explained what i meant by the question. You answered me by acknowledging the spirit of man. But you made no mention of the now scientific understanding that there are dimensions of reality beyond the sensible.

Do you realise - conceptually at least - the nature and powers of a man fully integrated in spirit at all levels of his own being? Have you considered the possibilities that this suggests regarding the freedom of soul travel and possible habitation of higher dimensions of reality? Ever pondered what Jesus meant when he said? :

"I and my Father are One"

The "I" is the soul. The 'Father' is a metaphor for the spiritual source of his being. In other words his own spiritual identity or I AM Presence. Jesus the 'Christ' (and Guatama the Buddha) taught that everyone has an individual selfhood from the same spiritual source within (in the subtle spiritual dimension of identity) and all souls can realise it's full potential just like he did. Man's spirit is a far greater power and presence that mere tenacity and instinct for survival. It is the creative source of his intelligent soul which is untapped by people who are asleep in the mass consciousness

Jesus said:

"The works that i do ye shall do also
And greater works shall ye do
because i go to my Father"

He was really saying: Because I attained the union of my soul to spirit so can you and you can prove your self-mastery over matter like i did.

Jesus was not the only person to accomplish the integration of his soul with inner-spirit. Others have too and by doing so have attained the soul liberty to return to their origin in the spiritual plane with no necessity to incarnate again. Some of these adepts remain here to help inspire us to awaken to spiritual reality just like they have.

These principles at least suggest how it is possible that someone like Phylos could even act in higher dimensions and the power upon which he can draw to inspire Oliver to spiritual work in the physical plane. Lower astral beings can act in the lower astral plane as imposters of the adepts but that is a whole different bowl of soup. There are multiple levels of subtle materiality beyond the gross physical plane. So, a sharp spiritual discernment is required to sense the vibrational difference between spiritual and lower astral beings. In the case of "A Dweller on Two Planets" i know Phylos is a spiritual adept who dictated the book from spiritual levels.

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Old 12-04-2008, 07:25 PM   #103
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Default Re: Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life (brand new documentary...

You too feeler. Bon voyage!
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:54 PM   #104
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Default Re: Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life (brand new documentary...

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Hhaha. Alas, Alan is no god. Nor do I 'believe' in him. But I do credit him for motivating me to really get to the sources of information and research for myself rather than take other researchers word for it.
Yeah, ok.

Seriously i listened to him on RED-ICE Creations, and i found him a very knowledgeable guy.
He shed some very good light on many aspects of the 'whole NWO scam'.
I respect him for this.

For some reason, they ceased (the Palmgren brothers of RED-ICE ) to re-invite him to his monthly radio show.

The Palmgren brothers said that Watt did'nt bring any solutions down the line, only rehearsing the same old NWO thing, so that's why it seems they got tired of him.... - And probably Watt did'nt like it.-

Doom, I am not saying this to start a mud fight, but just to let you know.

I respect both of these men (Maxwell,Tsarion,Watt,Icke..etc) they are humans with their own weaknesses. They All bring an 'aspect' of the whole thing.

The danger is where you stick too tightly to a point of view.
It's healthy to reassess your beliefs once in a while.

Challenge your own perspective of things, you'll get better at it with time.

salute.

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Old 12-04-2008, 09:11 PM   #105
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Doom

If you don't have all the answers on the origins of man, at least be open to the possibility of alien intervention/hybridization of humans. Also consider the validity of recent scientific findings (e.g. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...ncia_adn07.htm).

Doom, I am doing the best I can to alert the others; even on a dentist chair, I would tell about the CIA drug trafficking.
If the concept/acceptance of ET presence is outside your comfort zone and not your primary concern, I'd respect your free will.


-feeler
It has nothing to do with being 'outside my comfort zone' the fact is i've researched it extensively and found it to be counter-intelligence. In fact because of how much I know about it from many sides of the story, it happens to be very much in my comfort zone to talk about it and expose it. I was once more than 'open minded' about it, which is why I researched it in the first place, i believed it to be true at one point too, until I did more research and more research.

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Old 12-04-2008, 09:25 PM   #106
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Yeah, ok.

Seriously i listened to him on RED-ICE Creations, and i found him a very knowledgeable guy.
He shed some very good light on many aspects of the 'whole NWO scam'.
I respect him for this.

For some reason, they ceased (the Palmgren brothers of RED-ICE ) to re-invite him to his monthly radio show.

The Palmgren brothers said is that Watt did'nt bring any solutions down the line, only rehearsing the same old NWO thing, so that's why it seems they got tired of him.... - And probably Watt did'nt like it.-

Doom, I am not saying this to start a mud fight, but just to let you know.

I respect both of these men (Maxwell,Tsarion,Watt,Icke..etc) they are humans with their own weaknesses. They All bring an 'aspect' of the whole thing.

The danger is where you stick too tightly to a point of view.
It's healthy to reassess your beliefs once in a while.

Challenge your own perspective of things, you'll get better at it with time.

salute.
Alan Watt is not on Red Ice anymore is because they (Palmgren/David Icke/Tsarion) wanted him to talk about about aliens and reptilians. They even offered him a book deal and dvd plans etc. and told him he'd be making big $. But Alan Watt said he told them 'No, I won't do your biddings, I know you work for MI5 and MI6 like your mentor Crowley'. And since then he hasn't heard from them other than some angry emails. As you said they thought Alan was boring, they don't want to hear the 'boring' truth, they want to hear fantastic fantasy. Basically they gave him an ultimatim to start spewing disinfo or they'd take him off the air.

The danger is sticking too tightly to a point of view indeed, cause you can't see everything from one point of view. And I don't stick with one point of view ever, I always try to get all sides of the story before coming to my conclusions. It's the new agers who stick too tightly to their point of view, as you can see often at this message board, many are like religious fanatics and will insult and do anything but be rational when someone goes against their beliefs. I have no problem discussing opposing beliefs as you see, I respect other's opinions, but that doesn't mean I can't share my opposing opinions.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:31 PM   #107
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The mention of Phylos was obviously going to be a red flag for you Doom. Presumably it won't matter to you that Olivers contact with Phylos was the first to deal with many of the subjects it dealt with at the time. Subjects which have since found their way into the body of "new age" literature in 1001 ways. \

....


As you said to me earlier.... "just because something is possible doesn't make it true". Agreed. But doesn't make it untrue either.
The new age wasn't ever a free, grass roots movement, it was created from the top down, that is well documented. Just because you say this instance was the 'first to deal with many subjects' doesn't make it true. They always put out the guys who tell you the stuff first to make sure you follow them. They put out many of the conspiracy theories first before anyone else does, they put out the truth themselves but attatch it to so many lies and disinfo, that when someone comes along with the real truth afterwards, they are discredited because they didn't come out first and aren't going along with the attatched dis-info.

And right, possibility think doesn't make something true OR untrue, but possibilty think is faith based, there is no evidence, only a possibilty. We have to base our solutions on what we know and can prove, not on faith.

BTW, i recommend finding some of the other threads on this forum about the oneness movement, and the new age, there has been some decent posts and threads with lots of info. If you would trace find the origin of these ideas that you are talking about like 'possible habitation of higher dimensions of reality', you'll find this is complete propoganda, and is exactly what the new age is all about trying to make people think, and it ultimately does not lead us to freedom, but only to be further trapped in our own mind. But I do agree like I said before with many of the universal truths in the new testament which often come in jesus' messages, but you have to relize that they have spun the truth in the messages off into the bizzare using the new age, as the new age takes from many older religions including Buddhism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, and of course Christianity, etc. So be careuful of how you interpret the messages and meanings. Especially be careful not to fall for the exoteric meanings given for the public, and look to the esoteric meanings. the new age is often mistaken for true spirituality.

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Old 12-04-2008, 11:53 PM   #108
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Alan Watt is not on Red Ice anymore is because they (Palmgren/David Icke/Tsarion) wanted him to talk about about aliens and reptilians. They even offered him a book deal and dvd plans etc. and told him he'd be making big $. But Alan Watt said he told them 'No, I won't do your biddings,
Well, i find this VERY hard to believe...

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I know you work for MI5 and MI6 like your mentor Crowley'. And since then he hasn't heard from them other than some angry emails. As you said they thought Alan was boring, they don't want to hear the 'boring' truth, they want to hear fantastic fantasy. Basically they gave him an ultimatim to start spewing disinfo or they'd take him off the air.

For the MI5 thing, Palmgren of course got aware of this and answered in his forum he did'nt have to defend himself against such funny thing,.... people will decide.

I just think Mr. Watt just got frustrated for being showed the door....

Anyways, believe me, I was surprised and disapointed when i knew of this.
I was very much impressed with Watts radio sessions.


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The danger is sticking too tightly to a point of view indeed, cause you can't see everything from one point of view. And I don't stick with one point of view ever, I always try to get all sides of the story before coming to my conclusions. It's the new agers who stick too tightly to their point of view, as you can see often at this message board, many are like religious fanatics and will insult and do anything but be rational when someone goes against their beliefs. I have no problem discussing opposing beliefs as you see, I respect other's opinions, but that doesn't mean I can't share my opposing opinions.
I have to a agree on this.


salute.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:26 AM   #109
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Well, i find this VERY hard to believe...




For the MI5 thing, Palmgren of course got aware of this and answered in his forum he did'nt have to defend himself against such funny thing,.... people will decide.

I just think Mr. Watt just got frustrated for being showed the door....

Anyways, believe me, I was surprised and disapointed when i knew of this.
I was very much impressed with Watts radio sessions.




I have to a agree on this.


salute.
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on the Watt/Red Ice situation, my opinion knowing what I know about the kind of dis-info those guys put out and the backing behind it, is that I give the benefit of the doubt to Alan in this situation. Cause all we have is someone's word against someone else's, and character and integrity says a lot in that situation, which Alan definitely possesses more of (in my opinion of course). But of course there is no way to know for absolute certainty what happened between them. And it's more important to discuss their information than their personal battles and reasons for disliking each other or whatever, I think we both know that won't get us anywhere.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:27 AM   #110
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He believes that the ones behind NWO and secret societies are the aliens.
What a joke.
As astounding as this might seem it may not be very far from the truth.

I have heard from countless sources, some of which i deem highly credible that the "powers that be" or the real manipulators behind the veil are being directed by entities which are not terrestrial in origin. What i am refering to are extradimensional entities, some from as high as the fifth and sixth dimensions. It would not be a mistake to call these extraterrestrial as the very definition means originating, located, or occurring outside Earth or its atmosphere.

Consider what we know about other dimensions, extraterrestrial entities, group consciousness etc and multiply that by one thousand and you will come closer to understanding the knowledge that these guys have. And they will use that knowledge whatever way they feel will increase the power they posess over the human race even if that includes making contact with nefarious entities who are polarised towords service to self in a bid to form an alliance from which the two parties avail.


It is much more plausible to assume that our government is being manipulated/aided by extraterestrial entities rather then the notion that men are capable of such feats of intelectual prowess when left to their own devices.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:51 AM   #111
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As astounding as this might seem it may not be very far from the truth.

I have heard from countless sources, some of which i deem highly credible that the "powers that be" or the real manipulators behind the veil are being directed by entities which are not terrestrial in origin. What i am refering to are extradimensional entities, some from as high as the fifth and sixth dimensions. It would not be a mistake to call these extraterrestrial as the very definition means originating, located, or occurring outside Earth or its atmosphere.

Consider what we know about other dimensions, extraterrestrial entities, group consciousness etc and multiply that by one thousand and you will come closer to understanding the knowledge that these guys have. And they will use that knowledge whatever way they feel will increase the power they posess over the human race even if that includes making contact with nefarious entities who are polarised towords service to self in a bid to form an alliance from which the two parties avail.


It is much more plausible to assume that our government is being manipulated/aided by extraterestrial entities rather then the notion that men are capable of such feats of intelectual prowess when left to their own devices.



No it is not more plausable at all. That is ridiculous. And such a con. It is more typical new age rhetoric, probabilty think, etc. I have gone through in this thread already how all the evidence supporting these types conclusions is counter-intelligence. Specifically check out where I mention possibilty think and look more into it. Also be careful because these types of sources you speak of put out some truth about dimensions, consciousness etc. but then spin it to fit the new age agenda. Hell, just look into the new age movement period.

In fact right there in your last paragraph you admit we are defeated by saying they are capable of feats that men are not capable of, that means we're doomed because you're already admitting to being inferior. Once you come to these conclusions, you may not even relize it, but a psychological warfare program has already defeated you, no matter how you spin it and rationalize it to yourself.

Jack, can I ask you to please read this thread back through? Just because we've been talking about this for the whole thread already really. I have talked about how the PTB set up these conspiracies that want us to believe that the gov't is being manipulated by aliens, cause then we are battling imaginary creatures isntead of the real men behind the curtians, normal men flesh and blood like you and me. They circumvent any real revolution before they start up, by being good shepards, supplying our leaders, and showing us some truth first before anyone else, but then spin it off into fantasy and mix it with all kinds of lies so it renders us useless. The evidence is overwhelming that the new world order has been controlled by men throughout all ages and it often comes from the highest powers that be themselves who tell us (read Carroll Quigley's books for starters, he's the official historian for the CFR). There is no need for fantastic science fiction to prove and explain anything about this situation that we're in.

BTW, I don't mean to come off offensive sounding and if I do I apologize, but I have to be straight out with this information, there is no beating around the bush about it, I was once a victim of being spun off into outterspace myself, but I did so much research and traced the origins of all this information, and was shocked to see that even though I thought I had woken up that I was in fact just being conned again. I even had a hard time letting go of some of those new age beliefs almost because as humans we are drawn to fantasy and want to believe it. The new age has so many cons that give us warm and fuzzy solutions like ignoring the negative and everything will be ok, or how we are going to ascend into higher consciousness etc. all this stuff that make us feel good but actually just disables our true survival instinct which is the only thing that can stop the new world order.

Exposing counter intelligence, and cutting through the false realities that have been given to us or "cutting through the matrix", is one of the most important things we need to do if we ever expect to really wake up and get to the bottom of things.

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Old 12-05-2008, 01:58 AM   #112
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Is there an Alien complaint department I could go to?
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:07 AM   #113
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Is there an Alien complaint department I could go to?
Yea, but I think you need to take some DMT or Ayahuasca to get there. , that or join a yoga club or something and learn to channel,
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:04 AM   #114
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Doom, I suggest you google Credo Mutwa. His interviews are also availabe via transcripts. Now as I've personal contact with a number of contactees whose stories are indeed amazing and true.. what is true is based on their personal experiences. I've also been in this field of research since the early 1970s.. that means there is a good 35 years plus - studying this topic, talking to the people involved, reading/ediiting unpublished manuscripts and testimonies from high ranking government officials and the direct interviews of many of the people you are dissing here.. so in essence grasshopper, there is a steep learning curve still to climb on your part.

Tearing someone apart to fit your limited viewpoint and opinion does not serve the greater good here.
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Old 12-05-2008, 03:26 AM   #115
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Doom, I suggest you google Credo Mutwa.
Already seen his interview with icke and have read all about him, his story is a complete croc(no-pun intended).

And i'm not tearing anyone apart to fit any viewpoint. I'm just explaining and providing information on what counter-intelligence is and what the new age is and how to spot it, I'll recommend you research those. Exposing lies that spin the truth into non-sense in order to discredit it is absolutely for the greater good. We'll never stop the new world order chasing aliens, i promsie you that.

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Old 12-05-2008, 03:39 AM   #116
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Default Re: Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life (brand new documentary...

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Yea, but I think you need to take some DMT or Ayahuasca to get there. , that or join a yoga club or something and learn to channel,
Stewart Swerdlow says a HIGH (See very HIGH) percentage of channelings info comes from:

-- satellite transmission technology. --

With means like this, it's easy to program UNAWARE and naive people into believing almost anything...!
Just look at the Blossom Goodchild October 14th non-event:

It was such a popular happening and, even if it 'failed', it got more and more people aware of the 'ET' 'presence'.

For what reason ???

That is where again we get multiple and divergent opinions.....

Swerdlow also says that as well, a high percentage of crop circles
are generated by the Brookhaven National Laboratory in Long Island NY (!!!),
to imprint the Earth magnetic grid with 'specific patterns', as one of their purposes.

So, if true, we see that 'negative human factions'
are already at work using highly advanced technology, to say the least.

Where comes from that technology ???

That is where we again get multiple and divergent opinions.....

salute.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:36 AM   #117
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Doom where do I start with you.

First I do feel sorry for you.

You obviously have never had an obe before. I guess I'm a liar and the half a dozen people who are close to me too. Once you feel your astral body lift out of your physical body you start to fathom there is more than the 3D reality and its not unusual to encounter entities who are not of this world.

I have someone who is very very close to me who has been abducted by an ET before, who has never told anyone before, has got absolutely nothing to gain out of it but only embarassment. They have never touched drugs before and have an extremely sharp memory to recall details whilst in a waking conscious state.

Oh and DMT isn't a drug..it's a medicine. Also something your pineal gland produces everytime you go to sleep. Try having a lucid dream then go from there.


Icke and Tsarion have never followed the new age movement in fact they have warned of it as a religious belief.

Try not to dismiss EVERYTHING as new age cause you are only fooling yourself from being in denial.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:43 AM   #118
Jack
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No it is not more plausable at all. That is ridiculous. And such a con. It is more typical new age rhetoric, probabilty think, etc. I have gone through in this thread already how all the evidence supporting these types conclusions is counter-intelligence. Specifically check out where I mention possibilty think and look more into it. Also be careful because these types of sources you speak of put out some truth about dimensions, consciousness etc. but then spin it to fit the new age agenda. Hell, just look into the new age movement period.
To dismiss the entire realm of spirituality as a "new age movement" is a form of disinformation in itself, and lays in the ranks of Religion and any other generalisation a person wishes to put onto an amazingly expansive and dynamic group of subjects. Although i have no doubt that there is much disinformation out there, im also very aware that there is plenty out there that is genuine. The trick here is to be able to determine what is fact and what is fiction. Everyone has their own ways of determining truth, I have numerous ways of doing this myself. But i know one thing for sure and that is ; once you turn your back on spirit you will never, no matter how hard you seek, find the real truth. The only reliable thing we have in this incarnation that guides us in the right direction is spirit. And my spiritual guidance has never once led me astray, and it is the only form of inteligence that i trust 100% with all of my heart.

I like Alans work, and find him highly interesting as well as extremely informative, but i do not think any one man has all the answers.

Sorry I had to keep this short, ive work in about 20 minutes. I'll come back later to expand upon my views and give a better understanding as to why i dont think that Alan Watt is right about everything. He is genuine, and his heart is in the right place. But it would be implausible to assume that he has all of the answers, and each one of them is correct.
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Old 12-05-2008, 02:19 PM   #119
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Doom where do I start with you.

First I do feel sorry for you.

You obviously have never had an obe before. I guess I'm a liar and the half a dozen people who are close to me too. Once you feel your astral body lift out of your physical body you start to fathom there is more than the 3D reality and its not unusual to encounter entities who are not of this world.

I have someone who is very very close to me who has been abducted by an ET before, who has never told anyone before, has got absolutely nothing to gain out of it but only embarassment. They have never touched drugs before and have an extremely sharp memory to recall details whilst in a waking conscious state.

Oh and DMT isn't a drug..it's a medicine. Also something your pineal gland produces everytime you go to sleep. Try having a lucid dream then go from there.


Icke and Tsarion have never followed the new age movement in fact they have warned of it as a religious belief.

Try not to dismiss EVERYTHING as new age cause you are only fooling yourself from being in denial.

if it look slike a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Tsarion and Icke ARE new age.

And if you're allowed to feel sorry for me then I'm allowed to feel sorry for you, for being a new ager in la-la land and completely out to lunch about reality. Actually i take that back, because I don't want to begin slinging insults. There is a lot of confusion out there and we can't get upset with each other for having opposing opinions, we have to understand given the state of affairs that people are going to be confused and it is not ALL their fault.

But I think you can try to rationalize OBE's and or drugs all you want, but imo they do nothing to show you anything about reality, they disconnected you from reality - these experiences are not real. And I've been over ET abduction and how it is a scam, whether the victim beleives it to be true that it happened to them or not, that is still not proof in itself, as there are lots of other elements at play...

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Old 12-05-2008, 02:23 PM   #120
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To dismiss the entire realm of spirituality as a "new age movement" is a form of disinformation in itself, and lays in the ranks of Religion and any other generalisation a person wishes to put onto an amazingly expansive and dynamic group of subjects. Although i have no doubt that there is much disinformation out there, im also very aware that there is plenty out there that is genuine. The trick here is to be able to determine what is fact and what is fiction. Everyone has their own ways of determining truth, I have numerous ways of doing this myself. But i know one thing for sure and that is ; once you turn your back on spirit you will never, no matter how hard you seek, find the real truth. The only reliable thing we have in this incarnation that guides us in the right direction is spirit. And my spiritual guidance has never once led me astray, and it is the only form of inteligence that i trust 100% with all of my heart.

I like Alans work, and find him highly interesting as well as extremely informative, but i do not think any one man has all the answers.

Sorry I had to keep this short, ive work in about 20 minutes. I'll come back later to expand upon my views and give a better understanding as to why i dont think that Alan Watt is right about everything. He is genuine, and his heart is in the right place. But it would be implausible to assume that he has all of the answers, and each one of them is correct.

I'm not just dismissing anything as new age, i've extensively researched it to the point it becames obvious. So it is not dismissed, it is careful studied and shown to be so. And BTW, of course Alan doesn't have all the answers, and isn't right about everything, but I'm not basing anything on his opinions. I'm basing it on my own research from every side of the story I can get. You don't need to take anyone's word for anything. But information speaks for itself when you study the new age movement, counter-intelligence, etc.

And indeed it's all about determining what is fact and fiction. That is what I'm trying to help people do here, cause most new agers don't even know the trap they've been sucked into and think they've been woken up when they've actually just been misdirected into la-la land, fiction is quite captivating. New Age spirituality can be very alluring as it offers so many false solutions that make you feel good. And like in this thread already, I said I haven't turned my back on spirit at all, I believe in human spirit, but there is a fine line between spirituality and the new age.

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Old 12-05-2008, 08:03 PM   #121
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Good discussion.

I think reality is so harsh that unconscously people create a denial/schizm in their perception. Hence the creation of religion. The PTB's help develop and direct religion so that the peasants could in their mind have a place to go for hope and the eilte could live more comfortably knowing the peasants wont riot. The peruvial "I will be in a better place then here", my good deeds will be rewarded in heaven. The PTB placed this type of mind trap for us back then and they are doing the same with us now with "New Age" information. There is no difference. Basic psychological warfare mix eternal truths with lies. Lies that in the end steer you away from the obvious that you and me are being killed/murdered at this very moment. Bait and switch.

Just imagine/think if we did not have this place to escape too (New age concepts, esoteric/exoteric). As a revolutionairy movement we would be more unified and more focused on the a s s holes (which are men and women) who are commiting this genocide to us. For me this is the essence of what im trying to do by pushing forth this type of logic which Alan Watt is trying to formulate.

Its not that I dont believe in spirit or UFO's, its trying to get our focus into the here and now. The reality of the present! Where the tire meets the road. Meeting the spear of evil with the shield, yes.

People projecting that I am denying spirit/soul just exhibit the level of addiction they have to these esoteric/exoteric beliefs. These ideas are working against us people! Dont you see by these posts how this helps the PTB to stay in control?

Hey if we stop these psychopaths and can live in peace like hobbits ill chum with ya about metaphysics until we open a stargate, but until then realize that you are in a war in the front lines each one of you. When you draw your perception to new age beliefs you are losing a part of your energy to the battle, you are propagating the PTB's agenda, you are creating more divergence in reality and you are seeding the future.

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Old 12-05-2008, 08:30 PM   #122
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The new age wasn't ever a free, grass roots movement, it was created from the top down, that is well documented. Just because you say this instance was the 'first to deal with many subjects' doesn't make it true. They always put out the guys who tell you the stuff first to make sure you follow them. They (the PTB) put out many of the conspiracy theories first before anyone else does, they put out the truth themselves but attatch it to so many lies and disinfo, that when someone comes along with the real truth afterwards, they are discredited because they didn't come out first and aren't going along with the attatched dis-info.
Yes, but in the case of spirituality it's the other way around. A spiritual teaching is released first then along comes the PTB to hijack and twist it to their own advantage. That way the spiritual truth is discredited by association with the PTB's nonsense. Believe it or not the differences are often subtle. Their objective is achieved when non- discerning souls either accept it in toto OR reject it in toto. Either way you lose.

I think you've got the aliens fairly well covered but you fail to sort the wheat from the chaff in your total dismissal of the catch-all you refer to as the "new age". Like so many other 'truth seekers' who've written books on the "new age" you've tossed everything into it including legit spiritual teachings released first by legit spiritual teachers. Those who can't see the differences are spinning their wheels and will likely end up in the same ignorance as people who accept the "new age" unreservedly. Neither extreme is a winning formula.

I know there's a lot of balony in the "new age". Usings labels to dismiss the truths which you've snared within that label allows you to avoid what you don't understand or haven't verified personally. So long as you keep doing what your doing you can remain authoritive by denying all metaphysical experiences, real or otherwise. All you have to do is keep using your catch-all labels, keep denying plausable alternative realities (ie, the repetitive MO of the PTB in stealing the ID and truth of legit spiritual teachers) and keep telling people they're mentally ill or decieved if they can personally verify the multi-dimensional nature of themselves and the universe.

That would be unfortunate because you appear to have reached a cul-de-sac from which you cannot emerge. You're in so deep your ego cannot allow you to acknowledge the reality of spiritual law, spiritual beings or experience in the spiritual / material multi-verse. Yet all these exist and are an essential part of awakening and gaining self-mastery. There are no lasting victories without realising spiritual potential. It is the source of potent action not a delusion to escape into.

Certainly the PTB disseminate their claptrap from the top down. It is well documented, as you say. And you're correct that being first to release info (ie, the vast majority of Jesus teachings or certain of Phylos' teachings) doesn't make it true. But, as i continue to reiterate; in their attempt to poison the stream, the most transparent MO of the PTB throughout history is to STEAL the ID and teachings of legitimate sources of spiritual truth and salt it with their own spin. They did this to Jesus and his teachings and they're doing the same to Phylos and his teachings and to others. The distorted mask worn by the PTB is woven from the strands of truth and the origin of that truth is spiritual.

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And right, possibility think doesn't make something true OR untrue, but possibilty think is faith based, there is no evidence, only a possibilty. We have to base our solutions on what we know and can prove, not on faith.
"Faith", in the exoteric understanding, is something one "believes". But as i've said, one can "know" things which there is no possibility - at a given time - of scientifically proving to someone else. And the PTB are not about to confess that they rip off the true adepts and their teachings. But i know they have.

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BTW, i recommend finding some of the other threads on this forum about the oneness movement, and the new age, there has been some decent posts and threads with lots of info. If you would trace find the origin of these ideas that you are talking about like "possible habitation of higher dimensions of reality", you'll find this is complete propoganda, and is exactly what the new age is all about trying to make people think, and it ultimately does not lead us to freedom, but only to be further trapped in our own mind. But I do agree like I said before with many of the universal truths in the new testament which often come in jesus' messages, but you have to relize that they have spun the truth in the messages off into the bizzare using the new age, as the new age takes from many older religions including Buddhism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, and of course Christianity, etc. So be careuful of how you interpret the messages and meanings. Especially be careful not to fall for the exoteric meanings given for the public, and look to the esoteric meanings. the new age is often mistaken for true spirituality.
Me saying "possible habitation of higher dimensions of reality" was an invitation to you to consider the possibility. Science has already proven the reality of higher dimensions and so have i by a different route. Whether or not science had recently proven it is immaterial to me in the same way it was immaterial to Jesus and Guatama. They knew it and so do many others. They ascended into the spiritual plane and so can we, one by one as we awaken NOT en masse in 2012 or any other time.

You've cautioned me to gain an esoteric understanding of the religious texts. So far as words can tell i've been explaining my esoteric understanding in this thread and others by quoting the adepts who clearly also know of higher dimensions of personal and cosmic reality. (ie, Jesus, Guatama, Phylos etc). True spirituality enables one to verify spiritual truth wherever it appears whether in the old religious texts or the modern.

The few reliable teachings found in what is termed the "new age" do take concepts from older religions because there is truth in older religions (discernable below the surface). The true spiritual teachers of humanity are trying to show the continuity of their teachings through different cultures over a long time. They planted their veiled truths in the historical stream in many places. The false "priests", ancient and modern, always seek to misrepresent that spiritual truth and to spin it to their own 'advantage'. Consequently you will also find attempts in the "new age" to distort and spin the old religions. It is up to each individual to discern the difference.

Even so, no well motivated spiritual teaching is totally error free because it is recieved and scribed by a human being. If there are errors there, we've been taught by all spiritual teachers worth their salt to discern and resolve them through our own inner-spirit which is the ultimate source of confirmation. Debate can only inform that process but can't resolve it.

Cheers Doom.

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Old 12-05-2008, 09:08 PM   #123
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Yes, but in the case of spirituality it's the other way around. A spiritual teaching is released first then along comes the PTB to hijack and twist it to their own advantage. That way the spiritual truth is discredited by association with the PTB's nonsense. Believe it or not the differences are often subtle. Their objective is achieved when non- discerning souls either accept it in toto OR reject it in toto. Either way you lose.

I think you've got the aliens fairly well covered but you fail to sort the wheat from the chaff in your total dismissal of the catch-all you refer to as the "new age". Like so many other 'truth seekers' who've written books on the "new age" you've tossed everything into it including legit spiritual teachings released first by legit spiritual teachers. Those who can't see the differences are spinning their wheels and will likely end up in the same ignorance as people who accept the "new age" unreservedly. Neither extreme is a winning formula.

I know there's a lot of balony in the "new age". Usings labels to dismiss the truths which you've snared within that label allows you to avoid what you don't understand or haven't verified personally. So long as you keep doing what your doing you can remain authoritive by denying all metaphysical experiences, real or otherwise. All you have to do is keep using your catch-all labels, keep denying plausable alternative realities (ie, the repetitive MO of the PTB in stealing the ID and truth of legit spiritual teachers) and keep telling people they're mentally ill or decieved if they can personally verify the multi-dimensional nature of themselves and the universe.

That would be unfortunate because you appear to have reached a cul-de-sac from which you cannot emerge. You're in so deep your ego cannot allow you to acknowledge the reality of spiritual law, spiritual beings or experience in the spiritual / material multi-verse. Yet all these exist and are an essential part of awakening and gaining self-mastery. There are no lasting victories without realising spiritual potential. It is the source of potent action not a delusion to escape into.

Certainly the PTB disseminate their claptrap from the top down. It is well documented, as you say. And you're correct that being first to release info (ie, the vast majority of Jesus teachings or certain of Phylos' teachings) doesn't make it true. But, as i continue to reiterate; in their attempt to poison the stream, the most transparent MO of the PTB throughout history is to STEAL the ID and teachings of legitimate sources of spiritual truth and salt it with their own spin. They did this to Jesus and his teachings and they're doing the same to Phylos and his teachings and to others. The distorted mask worn by the PTB is woven from the strands of truth and the origin of that truth is spiritual.


"Faith", in the exoteric understanding, is something one "believes". But as i've said, one can "know" things which there is no possibility - at a given time - of scientifically proving to someone else. And the PTB are not about to confess that they rip off the true adepts and their teachings. But i know they have.


Me saying "possible habitation of higher dimensions of reality" was an invitation to you to consider the possibility. Science has already proven the reality of higher dimensions and so have i by a different route. Whether or not science had recently proven it is immaterial to me in the same way it was immaterial to Jesus and Guatama. They knew it and so do many others. They ascended into the spiritual plane and so can we, one by one as we awaken NOT en masse in 2012 or any other time.

You've cautioned me to gain an esoteric understanding of the religious texts. So far as words can tell i've been explaining my esoteric understanding in this thread and others by quoting the adepts who clearly also know of higher dimensions of personal and cosmic reality. (ie, Jesus, Guatama, Phylos etc). True spirituality enables one to verify spiritual truth wherever it appears whether in the old religious texts or the modern.

The few reliable teachings found in what is termed the "new age" do take concepts from older religions because there is truth in older religions (discernable below the surface). The true spiritual teachers of humanity are trying to show the continuity of their teachings through different cultures over a long time. They planted their veiled truths in the historical stream in many places. The false "priests", ancient and modern, always seek to misrepresent that spiritual truth and to spin it to their own 'advantage'. Consequently you will also find attempts in the "new age" to distort and spin the old religions. It is up to each individual to discern the difference.

Even so, no well motivated spiritual teaching is totally error free because it is recieved and scribed by a human being. If there are errors there, we've been taught by all spiritual teachers worth their salt to discern and resolve them through our own inner-spirit which is the ultimate source of confirmation. Debate can only inform that process but can't resolve it.

Cheers Doom.
And I agree that somewhere in our history and origins there was true spirituality, that over time has been hiijacked. But so much of what you have talked about falls right into the lines of the hiijacked material in my opinon. Like I said, there is a fine line between the new age and spirituality. I have stated before I fully believe in spirit. Proving the reality of higher dimensions existing has nothing to do with us habitating higher dimensions. And Perhaps our soul does. But like Mega said, we need to defeat the new world order in this reality, this is where the road meets the tire. But while so many are shopping for the New Age in answer to their spiritual crisis they fail to realize that this is the world where spirit meets matter and what you do here in the world of matter is important, no matter how you rationalize it, we are being rendered extinct and need to do something to stop this in this world, not the spiritual world. Once we get this new world order out of the way, maybe then, we can achieve our full potential spiritually, but first we must survive.

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Old 12-06-2008, 04:26 PM   #124
milk and honey
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... But like Mega said, we need to defeat the new world order in this reality, this is where the road meets the tire. But while so many are shopping for the New Age in answer to their spiritual crisis they fail to realize that this is the world where spirit meets matter and what you do here in the world of matter is important, no matter how you rationalize it, we are being rendered extinct and need to do something to stop this in this world, not the spiritual world. Once we get this new world order out of the way, maybe then, we can achieve our full potential spiritually, but first we must survive.
I agree with virtually all you've said here. What you're emphasising is exactly the relationship all spiritual people need have with this world. This world is where we must have our spiritual and material victories. Neither one without the other. Both are crucial.

I'd reply to your last comment about priorities by saying that we'd profit most by persuing spiritual and material survival simultaneously, not neglecting or postponing either. There's a lot at stake for the individual as well and what many don't fully appreciate is that both can be achieved together. In fact it's the reason we find ourselves at this crossroad "where spirit meets matter". To know and master both.

Take care Doom,
M + H
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Old 12-06-2008, 04:53 PM   #125
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I agree with virtually all you've said here. What you're emphasising is exactly the relationship all spiritual people need have with this world. This world is where we must have our spiritual and material victories. Neither one without the other. Both are crucial.

I'd reply to your last comment about priorities by saying that we'd profit most by persuing spiritual and material survival simultaneously, not neglecting or postponing either. There's a lot at stake for the individual as well and what many don't fully appreciate is that both can be achieved together. In fact it's the reason we find ourselves at this crossroad "where spirit meets matter". To know and master both.

Take care Doom,
M + H
Well said,
btw I don't mean to say to postpone anything, I'm not trying to supress spirit, I just think our spirit connection will grow a lot more if we focus on surviving our species here in this world, in this reality of flesh and blood. I think there are so many cons out there and that they love for everyone to be busy going through book after book in the new age section of the book store searching for something that will help them accept and be at peace with the horrors we face. It all works as religion even if they think they are breaking free from religion. To be honest, I fear that the effect that this new world order could have if they fully succeed, could destroy the spirit. Some are at peace with death because they "know life goes on" in other realms in some way shape and form, but I would caution that there is more to it, that the most important time we've ever faced so far in our known history and it is at hand, where spirit meets matter, and if we want to survive, even in spirit, we need to fix what is happening here. We are fighting for everyone who has ever lived and everyone who has a rite to live in the future. We need to stop this new world order no matter where you stand spiritualy at the moment.

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