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Old 11-18-2009, 01:51 AM   #101
orthodoxymoron
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I guess that 'Gray's Anatomy' would describe and illustrate that which is 'Human'. I guess that 'Grey's Anatomy' would describe that which is 'Reptilian/Grey'. But just in case...here is the Wikipedia version...which I somewhat disagree with. I think we were created and/or evolved somewhere (and somewhen?) else...and were brought to Earth...as fully Human Beings. I don't think the Annunaki created us. They may have 'detuned' us...but who knows?

Human
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See Homo sapiens (disambiguation).
This article is about modern humans. For other human species, see Homo (genus). For other uses, see Human (disambiguation).
Human[1]
Fossil range: 0.2–0 Ma PreЄЄOSDCPTJKPgN↓Pleistocene - Recent

Human male and female
Conservation status

Least Concern (IUCN 3.1)
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

Order: Primates

Family: Hominidae

Subfamily: Homininae

Tribe: Hominini

Genus: Homo

Species: H. sapiens

Subspecies: H. s. sapiens

Trinomial name
Homo sapiens sapiens
Linnaeus, 1758
Humans are bipedal primates belonging to the species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man") in Hominidae, the great ape family.[2][3] They are the only surviving member of the genus Homo. Humans have a highly developed brain, capable of abstract reasoning, language, introspection, and problem solving. This mental capability, combined with an erect body carriage that frees the arms for manipulating objects, has allowed humans to make far greater use of tools than any other species. Mitochondrial DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago.[4] Humans now inhabit every continent and low Earth orbit, with a total population of 6.8 billion as of November 2009.[5]

Like most higher primates, humans are social by nature. However, humans are uniquely adept at utilizing systems of communication for self-expression, the exchange of ideas, and organization. Humans create complex social structures composed of many cooperating and competing groups, from families to nations. Social interactions between humans have established an extremely wide variety of values, social norms, and rituals, which together form the basis of human society. Humans have a marked appreciation for beauty and aesthetics which, combined with the human desire for self-expression, has led to cultural innovations such as art, literature and music.

Humans are noted for their desire to understand and influence their environment, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through science, philosophy, mythology and religion. This natural curiosity has led to the development of advanced tools and skills, which are passed down culturally; humans are the only extant species known to build fires, cook their food, clothe themselves, and use numerous other technologies.

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Old 11-19-2009, 11:32 AM   #102
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Your probably right Ortho, and we don't know if they are the good guys but they're not saying to go out and kill or steal etc. They are preaching that Love is the Key. There will probably be a big adjustment coming. I have learned alot recently . You know, there are so many questions and no answers, not yet. However all your questions are no doubt making people here in avalon think and thats important. Perhaps the Creator doesn't have much to do with our planet and hasn't had for a long time allowing the malevolent to take over and control the situation. But I tend to believe that he/she is dissapointed with the way things have turned out and the Divine Consciousness and the true nature of Christ through reading the Letters in www.christ'sway.com . In regards to the Lucifer website the writer is basing all his beliefs and interpretations on the stories in the Bible is he not? when he is being critical of God/Jehovah. I have many doubts about the authenticity of the writers who wrote the so called Holy Book. Its going to be difficult to stay sane whilst firguring all this out ortho. All I know is, that I have found a kind of peace in my life since I have decided to think only through my heart. And if Love is exercised as the Key, then we won't have any fear and that will hopefully stop (them) in their tracks. The messages that I am receiving are telling me that we create our own reality and if we think that their are reptilians, draco's, grays and evil fallen angels then thats what we will have. As a collective conscience in this world we humans will be creating absolute havoc for ourselves.

In another thread I shared a revelation that one of my daughters receivedl. It happened when she was writing down her thoughts when all of a sudden the pen was writing words automatically that she had no control over. When she had finished this is part of what was written.

"The eating of meat or should I say flesh is to destroy the creation. You were meant to live in harmony with this world and have long prosperous lives, but you destroyed it because the demons have been moulding and manipulation you for thousands of years. You have become a disease on this planet killing everything in your path just as the demons have planned for you to do. You kill life, therefore they will take you and eventually everything will be consumed into nothing.

You are the creation and you must remember that the demons are everywhere gradually taking control of this life this creation.

I will destroy it once time has come. Not destroy the world but destroy the disease that has become of this creation, Like I can destroy many of my other creations. You have the ability to be saved by understanding what I AM and what I AM not. What is inside of you can tell you if you truely understand what the creation is and how the creation is God. The power the Light the Love that is inside of you, the way you feel towards your children (she has two) is the way I feel about my Creation. I AM dissapointed with the way it has turned out but I will not completely destroy it. I will take those that I know are pure in theirs hearts/their blood and are not fooled by the coming events or have contributed to them occuring.

There are hundreds of genuine people who have done some very wrong things in order to get this world into shape and where it is today. But many people have taken much life or contributed in creating and allowing the penetration of this disease into mankind so they cannot see or even begin to understand as to what God and the Creation are and that they are one and the same and how unique you are on this planet. This Garden of Eden that allowed you my creation to live enjoy and be creators of yourself through the Earth your Mother who bore you, and I the Father who is your Soul your Light your Energy, that is You...........(there is more.....) Let me know if you want to read the rest.

I have asked her on many occasions if she believed it was the Creator that wrote on that day, but she can't be sure. I feel there is alot of spiritual awakening happening all around the world. Perhaps some of it is from the Creator, or benevolent beings, no doubt some is not. I don't know Ortho, but I feel there is a big deception happening out there, and I'm being very cautious in saying that we are probably being manipulated ,big time,especially with the internet.

Peace be with you
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:53 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly View Post
Let me know if you want to read the rest.

firefly
certainly, post the rest ~ very interesting what she
'automatically' writes
love/susan
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:29 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXchanger View Post
certainly, post the rest ~ very interesting what she
'automatically' writes
love/susan
Okay! here it is eXchanger.

"Man is unique because I made him like Me. Not in the physical sense but in the sense that I gave them the power to think, to create, to achieve whatever their minds desire. However, these demons have been trying to control you, these demons that I once locked away are creeping back in, fooling man into many beliefs to advance their technology and their plans.(could this be referring to ET's) If I don't stop them they will consume you through deceit and lies. They are .....sins, the demons all instructed by satan their leader to devour My Creation in whatever means possible. However, I will not let that happen. I will destroy him for good and all his offspring and followers. No one will escape Me.

There are many out there that have done no wrong but remain ignorant to the happenings on a spiritual level. They concentrate on their sports their media and other outlets. These are ways of keeping you controlled. Most people will not believe that this creation in front of them is not the Creator.

I will stop this, save as many that are worthy and are not blinded by the beliefs the new world provides.

Jesus was the son I created to save your souls from the demons. It is through Him you can gain redeption for your sins against my Creation, through the life you have had to lead, the choices you make and lessons you learn along the way.

I will look after the children that are still mine and believe in Me."


Peace and Love to all
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:15 AM   #105
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Thank-you for sharing the message firefly. Who knows what the source was? I'm wary of automatic writing...as I'm wary of nearly all supernatural occurrences...but the author seemed to be benevolent. I'm beginning to think that the universe is populated by very imperfect beings...and that some of these beings play god. I'm thinking that the one or ones who were instrumental in our creation are not the one or ones we are dealing with in this Solar System...historically and presently.

I think we're going to make it...but that our future may be quite difficult. I really think we live on a haunted planet...as the message suggests. I think that demons and deceptions are everywhere. Even though I no longer believe a lot of Christian (or other) theology...I don't want to venture too far from the Teachings of Jesus...or from the Living Christ (as separate and distinct from the Historical Jesus who Albert Schweitzer came to profoundly question).

Thanks again for sharing. The message sounded like it contained a lot of truth...regardless of the source. But I'd like to see even the demons relocated and rehabilitated...if that's even possible. And I'd like to know the full and honest truth about the demons...and why they seemingly hate us so much. What if they have a legitimate grievance...but have allowed it to drive them completely mad? What if the demons are mercenaries who do the bidding of malevolent human beings? These are not rhetorical questions (some of my questions are rhetorical). I just want everything to begin making sense...even if I don't like the reality of the predicament which we may be in.

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Old 11-20-2009, 03:19 AM   #106
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Thanks ortho,

Perhaps the demons hate us so, because we are supposedly unique, as we a co-creators. I think our planet and mankind is unique but at the same time one of many creations. Perhaps satan and his minions are really envious of us and out connection to the Father and they are trying their hardest to bring us down.
Perhaps this whole ET and UFO thing is a great disception. Afterall man's ego has grown expotentially in last 100 years with science etc. What better way to fool us, by appealing to our scientific ego's. And when the UFO's come for us and tell us they're here to save us from our dystructive planet. Where will you be.? I for one will not be going into any alien or manmade flying saucer. My connection with the Christ Conscienceness will lift my vibrations to a higher realm without any machine.

I think you know ortho that I have been reading Christ's Letters and they have given me so much peace. (I have to share this with you and I hope you don't mind)

I had been meditating, and reading and listening to some beautiful music that I usually have playing while meditating and praying. One morning last week I woke and still half asleep. I asked myself 'should I listen to the morning news on my clock radio or should I get up and put on my music and meditate. Well I didn't have to make the decision someone made it for me because my CD came on all by its little self. And I thanked Christ Jesus. It was obvious that the negative news was not good for my soul or my spiritual journey. Alot of incredible things have happened to me since the Letters came to me, and I am grateful for them.

Peace and Love to you
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Old 11-20-2009, 04:48 PM   #107
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There is no single right way to heal ourselves and become enlightened. If you are doing something which works for you...well keep doing it...by all means! The CD experience was interesting. Music is probably a huge part of healing and enlightenment. On the other hand...the more spiritual one becomes...the more harsh everyday reality seems to be. We probably need the beautiful experiences which come to us during meditation AND we also need to face all manner of harsh realities. This is a delicate balance...and so far I have not been able to achieve it. I'm sort of like the teenager learning to drive. Hard on the gas! Hard on the brakes! Hit the trashcans! The Dracs probably even laugh!
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:33 PM   #108
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Check out this episode from 'Stargate SG1' titled 'The First Commandment'. It features a mere mortal...playing god. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fMAXRxF4nQ

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Old 11-23-2009, 07:32 PM   #109
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Is Nibiru a huge Draconian Mothership which travels throughout the galaxy creating Draconian Theocracies? http://www.nibiruancouncil.com/html/...ipnibiru.html#
Is this the real winged serpent in the Garden of Eden? Is Eve representative of the Human God of This World who becomes perfectly possessed by a Draconian Interdimensional Reptilian (eats the apple) and leads Adam (Humanity)...under the direction of the Dracs (One Nation Under Satan)? Is Nibiru the Galactic Vatican of a Universal Church? Is Nibiru owned and operated by Human Beings...or did Human Beings obtain it's services at Rent-A-Rep? I just had to ask. Please forgive the repetition of these videos. I felt that they would help to illustrate the text of this post. What do you think about Amen Ra? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun I know very little about this Egyptian god. I don't have a negative knee-jerk reaction against ancient gods...but I think that we are not dealing with the Creator God of the Universe...in antiquity or modernity. Why this is...I do not know. I sincerely wish we were dealing with this Ultimate Deity. I really don't know what the hell is going on...but something is very, very wrong. I think the gods of this world are Humans who were or are perfectly possessed by Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians. I can't prove this. I'm not a scholar. I just think that our safest course presently is to submit to Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...regardless of whether any deities are good or evil. Power to the People. All the People. Perhaps Nibiru can join the United States of the Solar System...and provide security services for the Solar System outside the orbit of Pluto. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15878 Why wouldn't this work? I'm still naive enough to think that where there's life...there's hope. Nibiruans should revolt against their theocratic or tyrannical leaders...and embrace Responsible Freedom. Come on guys...Do It!

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3A6_blpqpU
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7O7UZxipM
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b365_...e=fvwpYouTube- Stargate SG1 - Goa'ulds - Awesome Gods?
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTb...next=1YouTube- The Temptation of Jesus by the Devil in the Wilderness

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Old 11-24-2009, 08:15 AM   #110
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Regardless of whether you agree with me or not...or whether you like me or not...psychology/ethics/politics/religion (in the context of the subjects which surface in Camelot and Avalon) are central to solving our delemma. The City States and Secret Governments need to be profoundly purified and reformed. This will probably involve some type of benevolent off-world assistance. I envision a perfected Humanity living in a perfected Solar System. Physicality is not a bad thing...as long as it is highly ethical and spiritual...and we should appreciate it. This Solar System is prime real estate...which should be properly cared for...and we should appreciate it.

There are several major factions which go way, way back in Earth history...and further back than that...which should be identified and traced. I've made a feeble attempt to look at this...but I don't have the resources to properly do it. This is key to understanding where we came from...what the hell we are doing right now (or should be doing)...and where we are going (or could go). Controversy, turmoil, pain, suffering, and confusion are part of the deal. There is no way to neatly and cleanly figure out what's going on...and resolve our problems. Consider everything from all angles...all the time. This takes a lot of work. Beware of easy answers, simple solutions, and smooth saviors.

I suspect that we are just scratching the surface. Consider this thread to be a motivator...more than anything.

Namaste
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:39 AM   #111
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I'm starting to get the intense feeling Ortho that all pathways of the truth are leading to the same conclusion. Your onto it. keep up the good work.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #112
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Thank-you Initiate. I'm just trying to face reality. My insecurity propels me forward...and then I discover things which make me even more insecure! My insecurity and emotional trauma make it difficult for me to properly research these important topics. There are so many agendas and lies! This world is a very troubled and dangerous place! There is so much pain and confusion!

That link you provided (nibiruancouncil.com) is fascinating! Thank-you! I really need to stop blabbing on the internet...and actually read for an extended period of time. Unfortunately...when I read...my mind wanders and I tend to go to sleep!

Speaking of reading...there is a book which was published in the late 1800's titled 'The Great Controversy (Between Christ and Satan in the Conflict of the Ages)' by Ellen White. It is very interesting regarding the subject of this thread. I don't agree with a lot of things in it...but so many principles and concepts in this book are highly profound. The Jesuits know about this book...to say the least! There was one report...if I remember correctly...where unseen hands tore this book in two...the hard way! I shared this book with an ivy-league educated theologian...who was usually rather cynical and skeptical...and he spoke positively about the book...which shocked me at the time.

Namaste

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Old 11-24-2009, 10:15 AM   #113
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Ultimately I am feeling as you do ortho. I truely believe that whilst we can piece together the jigsaw puzzle out there, the true answers lie within. That's what makes this so incredible. We search for the answers outside of ourselves. The more we look the more there is to find. Yet, incredibly the answers are there all along. Inside of us. We just need to take the time to ask the questions and then listen for the answers. Of course, looking outside helps us to know what questions to ask. You have looked outside of yourself and are getting lost. Now, go within, and find the answers. You don't have to become a monk. just sit quietly. Don't look at the computer screen and feel your self breating and just listen (patiently) to your inner most voice. The answers will come. Then, enjoy life and the freedom and peace that that brings.

The wierdest thing is I have know this since before I can remember. Just took this long for me to admit it. Ultimately you find yourself on the quest for the holy grail. It's not out there. It's inside of you. In the deepest receses of your heart mind. God has a sense of humour don't you know.

peace brother.

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Old 11-28-2009, 12:12 AM   #114
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OK...I went within (way within)...and this is what I came up with:

Did God the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit require the sanctuary service? Or was it Satan who required the sanctuary service? The sanctuary service involved sacrifice(killing) and ultimately human sacrifice. When we hear about heathens sacrificing their children, we cringe in horror(I do). But isn’t traditional Christianity centered in God the Father sacrificing his child? Is there a problem here? Does the sanctuary service involve a sort of appeasement of ‘the gods’?

It seems to me that Satan had more to do with the sanctuary service than God. Jesus did away with the sanctuary service. It further seems that Satan claimed ownership of the human race, and required worship, and that Jesus had to literally strike a deal with the Devil to liberate us. Jesus waged spiritual warfare with all the forces of hell and won, thus opening the door for our liberation. The death of Christ on the cross was symbolic of a victory which had already occurred. The spike that was driven through Christ’s heel continued through the serpent’s head. Unfortunately the serpent is still writhing and will continue to do so until human beings win a spriritual warfare with the forces of hell in a manner similar to that of Christ. Jesus showed the way, but he has had few true followers for nearly 2,000 years now. So this thing keeps dragging on and on. A concerted spiritual warfare might well culminate in what is refered to as Armageddon. Satan and his cohorts will not give this earth up without a huge fight.

The substitutionary atonement was not to satisfy a bloodthirsty God…but rather to silence the demons infesting this earth. The crucifixion of Christ was the first payment, and when a critical mass of human beings do what Jesus said to do, the 2nd and final payment will be made. Might this be the final application of the atonement? Does Satan, rather than God, require the so called Pre-Advent Judgment? Isn’t Satan the ultimate legalist?

I guess I see the Sanctuary Service, the Substitutionary Atonement, and the Pre-Advent Judgment as being required to silence Satan and to kick him(or her) out of our world...permanently(God/Jesus dealing with Satan). But a harmonious relationship with Christ and His Teachings is required to bring about, and participate in, the Kingdom of God...and to obtain the benefits of the Atonement.

The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them: ‘A priest must not make himself ceremonially unclean for any of his people who die, except for a close relative, such as his mother or father, his son or daughter, his brother, or an unmarried sister who is dependent on him since she has no husband–for her he may make himself unclean. He must not make himself unclean for people related to him by marriage, and so defile himself. “‘Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies. They must be holy to their God and must not profane the name of their God. Because they present the offerings made to the Lord by fire, the food of their God, they are to be holy. “‘They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God. Regard them as holy, because they offer up the food of your God. Consider them holy, because I the Lord am holy–I who make you holy. “‘If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire. “‘The high priest, the one among his brothers who has had the anointing oil poured on his head and who has been ordained to wear the priestly garments, must not let his hair become unkempt or tear his clothes. He must not enter a place where there is a dead body. He must not make himself unclean, even for his father or mother, nor leave the sanctuary of his God or desecrate it, because he has been dedicated by the anointing oil of his God. I am the Lord. “‘The woman he marries must be a virgin. He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people, so he will not defile his offspring among his people. I am the Lord, who makes him holy.’” The Lord said to Moses, “Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the Lord by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy.’” So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.—Leviticus 21:1-24 (New International Version)

“When the loud cry, ‘It is finished!’ came from the lips of Christ, the priests were officiating in the temple. It was the hour of the evening sacrifice. The lamb representing Christ had been brought to be slain. Clothed in his significant and beautiful dress, the priest stood with lifted knife, as did Abraham when he was about to slay his son. With intense intrest the people were looking on. But the earth trembles and quakes; for the Lord Himself draws near. With a rending noise the inner veil of the temple is torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand, throwing open to the gaze of the multitude a place once filled with the presence of God. In this place the Shekinah had dwelt. Here God had manifested His glory above the mercy seat. No one but the hight priest ever lifted the veil separating this apartment from the rest of the temple. He entered in once a year to make an atonement for the sins of the people. But lo, this veil is rent in twain. The most holy place of the earthly sanctuary is no longer sacred. All is terror and confusion. The priest is about to slay the victim; but the knife drops from his nerveless hand, and the lamb escapes. Type has met antitype inthe death of God’s Son. The great sacrifice has been made. The way into the holiest is laid open. A new and living way is prepared for all. No longer need sinful, sorrowing humanity await the coming of the high priest. Henceforth the Saviour was to officiate a priest and advocate in the heaven of heavens. It was as if a living voice had spoken to the worshipers: There is now an end to all sacrifices and offerings for sin. The Son of God is come according to His word, ‘Behold, I have come-in the volume of the Book it is written of Me,-to do Your will, O God.’ ‘With His own blood’ He entered in ‘the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.’ Heb. 10:7; 9:12.”—Desire of Ages (Ellen White) p. 807-808(Home Library Edition)

‘”When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another.” Thus Christ on the Mount of Olives pictured to His disciples the scene of the great judgment day. And He represented its decision as turning upon one point. When the nations are gathered before Him, there will be but two classes, and their eternal destiny will be determined by what they have done or have neglected to do for Him in the person of the poor and the suffering. In that day Christ does not present before men the great work He has done for them in giving His life for their redemption. He presents the faithful work they have done for Him. To those whom He sets upon His right hand He will say, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.” But those whom Christ commends know not that they have been ministering unto Him. To their perplexed inquiries He answers, “Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them. Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness; before the words of life had fallen upon their ears, they have befriended the missionaries, even ministering to them at the peril of their own lives. Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God. How surprised and gladdened will be the lowly among the nations, and among the heathen, to hear from the lips of the Saviour, “Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” How glad will be the heart of Infinite Love as His followers look up with surprise and joy at His words of approval!’—Desire of Ages (Elllen White) pgs. 685 & 686 (Home Library Edition)

Forensic-only justification is legalistic. It is simplistic legalism offered as the solution to complex legalism. Responsibility is the real solution....being responsible caretakers of our world, ourselves, and each other...by exercising personal responsibility. Being right with God and others...by being right with God and others...not simply being declared to be right. But perfection is not required...because God is not a legalist. We can always do better...but we should not have a nervous breakdown trying to be 'perfect'. There should be Kaizen(continual improvement)...without ever 'arriving'. We don't have to be 'perfect' to be 'good enough' for God.

Furthermore, does Revelation teach a 'Final Solution' which involves killing all 'undesirables'? In other words, human beings being killed by a God of Love for rejecting a God of Love. I have stated this very bluntly...but is this a misrepresentation?

For those who choose to follow Satan...would it be ethical and appropriate to allow them to follow and worship their leader on a distant 'Devil's Island' planet for all eternity...rather than being tortured or killed by God?

The Great Commission: "Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."---Matthew 28:18-20(NIV).

Have Christians been busy doing this for 2,000 years...or doing everything but this? Is this the Great Omission? I'm guilty too. I'm no poster child. By the way, why does Jesus say 'all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me?' Given to him by whom, and when? Did he win this authority away from Satan during his earthly ministry? Is this the first part of the deal with the Devil(Holy Place phase)? Is doing what Jesus told us to do the second and final part of this deal(Most Holy Place phase)? Is this where the Pre-Advent Judgment comes in?

I have a problem with a Pre-Advent Judgment as being something which God needs or requires(the Lord knows them that are his). But if it is something which Satan requires as a part of a legalistic, lawyer-like, celestial courtroom, universal power struggle, legal wrangling regarding the souls of men and the fate of the human race at the end of this present darkness...then I am all ears. It can help to explain why 2,000 years after Jesus paid it all, and saved the human race...things are worse than ever. What went wrong? We can't say everything is fine when it obviously is not. 'Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then shall the Lord come to claim them as His own.'--Christ's Object Lessons (Ellen White), pg 69. Try taking the Teachings of Jesus seriously, and start talking about them and implementing them at the local church level...and see how much trouble you get into. How about the Fundamental Teachings of Jesus Christ? How about Teachings of Jesus Seminars? This applies to all Christian churches. Christianity is a religion about Jesus...not the religion of the teachings of Jesus. Who needs the Anti-Christ?

I think I believe in a sort of ‘harvest eschatology’. To me, the U.S. Constitution and the Red Letter Teachings of Jesus are much more important than Fundamentalist Christianity. I’m probably more on the wavelength of the following:

“Not many people of moderate persuasion have much sway in the church any more. I was reminded why recently when the Episcopal Church did two important things: It elected a woman bishop to head the denomination, and it backtracked on appointing gay bishops. The first move seems Christian. Women deserve to hold church office as much as political office (one diocese, however, was so incensed that it voted to leave the church, and worldwide there are still Anglican movements that do not permit women to be bishops or ordained priests). The second move was an act of cowardice because it did not reflect the ideals of love in Christianity and was motivated by reactionaries in the Episcopal denomination. Countering a long tradition of laissez-faire tolerance, the reactionaries have gotten tough and threatened to form their own church if gays are promoted in the priesthood. The worldwide Anglicans are more intolerant, upholding that homosexuality is forbidden, unnatural, wrong or an outright sin, depending on who is doing the disapproving. You'd think that someone would stand up and ask a simple question: Who are we to condemn gays if Christ didn't? In fact, who are we to condemn any sinner, since Christ didn't? Christianity is about forgiveness, and for the past two decades, as fundamentalism swept through every Protestant denomination, moderates and liberals have been driven out, and were roundly condemned as they left. Along with them went tolerance and forgiveness, not to mention love. Did Christ teach love or is that just a liberal bias? In the current climate, it's hard to remember, but one thing is certain: Once a tight cabal of fundamentalists takes over any denomination, Christ's teachings go out the window. The reversal of Christianity from a religion of love to a religion of hate is the greatest religious tragedy of our time. Those of us who haven't been swept up in worldwide fundamentalism, which has corrupted Islam, Hinduism and Judaism as well, have been caught in a double bind. We can't join any sect that preaches intolerance, yet we can't fight it, either, because by definition fighting is a form of intolerance. To escape this double bind, moderates have stayed silent and stayed home. But that tactic failed. As healthy as it is to nourish your own devotion and faith, it's disastrous to allow extremists to take over the church, because the statehouse, the board of education, the Congress, and eventually the presidency are next. Perhaps civil society will solve the problem of religious extremism. So far it hasn't. America finds itself in the sad plight of being the world's most prominent secular society hijacked by sectarians. One can only hope that the church comes to its senses and regains its moral center. If that doesn't occur, the core teachings of Christ will be lost, for all intents and purposes, to this generation.” --- Deepak Chopra

I have decided to follow Jesus. Though none go with me...still I will follow. No turning back.

Namaste

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Old 11-28-2009, 12:48 AM   #115
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Wow. what a deep inward journey. I stand with you brother. United we stand.
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:41 AM   #116
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Thank-you Initiate. I'm basically crazy...but I pull myself together long enough to produce semi-rational posts. It almost seems as though one has to go to hell to get at the truth. The theory is that the unseen bad-guys fight you every inch of the way when you start getting close to the truth. THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE EXPOSED. The truth will set us free...but it might make us very miserable along the way. Jesus said that he had many things to tell us...but we couldn't take it. I think we are learning about a lot of those things in Camelot and Avalon (including all the links)...especially if we read between the lines. I sincerely hope that we can take it. I think things will mellow out once we gain (regain) our freedom...but I also think we will always face huge problems of various kinds.

You have obviously done your homework Initiate...and I'm learning a lot from all of your posts. I sometimes think we have academics who post here...who wouldn't dare talk about Camelot and Avalon topics in the classroom. Who knows...we may even have some off-world posters. This forum may be a model for a future United Nations which includes the entire Solar System.

Consider rewatching (or watching for the first time) all of the Stargate episodes (including the movie)...with theology in mind...in each and every episode. Also consider rewatching (or watching for the first time) all of the 'V' episodes (1984 and 2009)...with theology in mind...in each and every episode. Theology may be stranger than Science Fiction.

Could many Human Beings, Supercomputers, and Androids be possessed by Draconian Interdimensional Reptilians aka Demons? Could two main factions really be Zionist Theocratic (Pleiadian) and Teutonic Zionist Luciferian (Aldebaran)? Is there a third Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom faction (Andromedan?) which seeks an end to this madness through peaceful means? I tend to think (without inside info) that the first two factions (whoever they really are) are not in control of the situation (if they ever were). I think they have both been deceived. Perhaps this would be a good time for all three factions to cooperate with each other...and call upon benevolent extraterrestrials...to perform a Solar System Exorcism. I don't know what the root issues are with the Dracs...but I think they should go now. We can address various grievances in a constructive and appropriate manner...at a later date. I continue to support the idea of amnesty for full disclosure, full cooperation, and reasonable restitution...applying to all factions. Who knows...the Dracs might eventually turn out to be model citizens!

Namaste

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:37 AM   #117
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Here is the most heretical post yet. It is merely speculation. Here goes.

What if God (of this world), Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, (and other deities?) are all the same being? What if this single being has multiple personalities? Jesus said 'I and my Father are one' and 'If you have seen me...you have seen the Father'. Satan is strangely absent in the Old Testament. Are Satan and the Old Testament God the same being? Could Josephus be the same being? I have speculated that there is always some level of insanity connected with absolute power. I suspect that the leader of this world...going way, way back is a Human/Reptilian God from the Pleiades/Aldebaran/Sirius who is a mixture of good and evil...sanity and insanity...male and female (androgynous)...black and white...human and reptilian. Did this being bring us all here (in Nibiru?) a long, long time ago? I don't know. I'm simply considering possibilities.

If this is true...what would it take for this hypothetical being to snap out of it...and come to their senses? Would a Solar System based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom rather than a Theocracy...really be the solution? If this being retired...could they recover over time? I think so. How about it God/Jesus/Satan/Lucifer/Etc? Are all of the above really Amen Ra? I mean no disrespect. Should 'Thou Shalt Have No Gods' be the first and last commandment? If this theory is true...I think there can be a happy ending...for everyone...including God/Jesus/Satan/Lucifer/Amen Ra/Etc.

Please review Post #109 with this post in mind. I'm simply trying to stimulate thoughts and solutions. This universe may be stranger than we think. It may be stranger than we can think. What do you think? Do you think? Come on! Think!

Namaste

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Old 12-04-2009, 03:55 AM   #118
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Some people think Formula One drivers are gods. They might be right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJb-...eature=related

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Old 12-04-2009, 04:00 AM   #119
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Evolutionary man finds it difficult to fully comprehend the significance and to grasp the meanings of Evil, Error, Sin, and Iniquity. Man has been very slow to perceive that contrastive Perfection and Imperfection produce potential Evil. He has been slow in perceiving that conflicting Truth and Falsehood create confusing Errors. That the divine endowment of "freewill choice", eventuates in the divergent realms of Sin and Righteousness. It is the persistent pursuit of Divinity that leads to the kingdom of God, as contrasted with it's continuous rejection, which leads to the domains of Iniquity.

The Gods neither create evil, nor permit sin and rebellion. Potential evil is time-existent in a universe embracing all the differential levels of perfection meanings and values. Sin is potential in all realms where imperfect beings are endowed with the ability to choose between Good and Evil. The very conflicting presence of Truth and Untruth, Fact and Falsehood, constitutes the potentiality of Error. The deliberate choice of Evil constitutes Sin. The willful rejection of Truth is Error, where the persistent pursuit of Sin and Error is Iniquity.

True and False Liberty

Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer Rebellion and the Adamic default, none of them has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of "Immature Evolutionary Mortals" to distinguish between true and false Liberty. True Liberty is the quest of the eons and the reward of evolutionary progress. False Liberty is the subtle deception of the "Error of Time" and the "Evil of Space". Truly enduring Liberty is predicated on the reality of Justice. Inherently, this is the understanding of Intelligence, Maturity, Fraternity, and Equity culminating in the expression of Liberty.

Liberty can be a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence - When it's motivation is Unintelligent, Unconditioned, and Uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality, and always regards Social Equity, Cosmic Fairness, Universe Fraternity, and Divine Obligations.

Liberty is suicidal when it is divorced from Material Justice, Intellectual Fairness, Social Forbearance, Moral Duty, and Spiritual Values. Liberty is simply nonexistent apart from Cosmic Reality and Responsibility, and ALL personality reality is proportional to it's Divinity relationships.

Unbridled Self-Will and unregulated Self-Expression equal Unmitigated Selfishness, which is the acme of Ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of Self, is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated Liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel Deception and License masquerading in the garments of Liberty, is the forerunner or precursor of abject Bondage and Suffering.

True Liberty is the associate of genuine Self-Respect whereas false Liberty is the consort of Self-Admiration. True Liberty is the fruit of one's self-control whereas false Liberty is the assumption of Self-Assertion. Self-Control leads to altruistic service whereas Self-Admiration leans towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual, in so much as they are willing to sacrifice their righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust Power over their fellow beings.

Even Wisdom is Divine and Safe, only when it is Cosmic in Scope, and Spiritual in Motivation.

There is no error greater than the type of Self-Deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of Power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these personalities of their Natural Liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against such Fraud, Unfairness, Selfishness, and Unrighteousness. It is only true and genuine Liberty that is compatible with the reign of Love, and the Ministry of Mercy.

It is extremely audacious that the self-willed creature encroaches upon the rights of their fellows in the name of their own personal Liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the Universe (The Creator and His Co-ordinates) stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of "will", and potentials of "personality"...

No being, in the exercise of their supposed personal Liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators. These priviledges of existence are duly respected by all their Loyal Associates, Subordinates, and Subjects.

Evolutionary Man has to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere. This is not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres. War is a heritage of early evolutionary man, but on the worlds of normally advancing civilization, physical combat as a technique of adjusting racial misunderstandings has long since fallen into disrepute and non-usage (That is, those Systems that are not under Isolation and Quarantine due to the Rebellion of a System Sovereign and then the Default of It's Adamic Material Son and Daughter).

The Theft of Liberty

With the Son, and in the Spirit, did God project eternal Havona, and ever since then, has been obtained the eternal pattern of "Co-ordinate participation" in Creation. This is more simply put as - Sharing. This pattern of sharing is the master design for every one of the Sons and Daughters of God who go out into space, to engage in the attempt to duplicate in time, the central universe of eternal perfection - Havona...

Every creature of every evolving universe who aspires to do the Father's will, is destined to become the partner of the time-space Creators in this magnificent adventure of experiential perfection attainment. Were this not true, the Father would have hardly endowed such creatures with creative free will, and neither would he indwell them as the Thought-Adjuster to actually go into partnership with them by means of his own spirit. That said, the path of the Co-creator is one in which You are willing to share in it's contruction, while at the same time respecting every free willed creature's desire and birthright to do the same.

Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable. To attempt to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer's crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania (Our Local System), which was the unrecognized abridgment of the creature's personal participation - Freewill participation that is - In the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of "Light and Life" both individually and collectively.

In so doing, this onetime Sovereign of your System placed the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God's will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personalized creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the Ascenders and Servers of the System of Satania. This was a threat to forevermore deprive EVERY ONE of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument of experiential wisdom, which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania.

Thus does Lucifer's manifesto of Personal Freedom, masquerading in the vestments of Liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to encapsulate the theft of personal liberty and do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon.

In short, what God had given men and angels Lucifer would have taken away from them, that is, the divine privilege of participating in the creation of their own destinies and of the destiny of this local System of Inhabited Worlds.

No being in all the universe has the rightful liberty to deprive any other being of it's true liberty, which is the right to love and be loved, as well as the privilege of worshiping the Prime Creator and of serving Your fellow aspects of First Source.

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Old 12-04-2009, 05:07 AM   #120
orthodoxymoron
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Thank-you Murcuriel. The Urantia Book gets at the heart of the problem...doesn't it? Here are the links (with the material in the previous post...in context):

Chapter 53: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p053.htm
Chapter 54: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm

Listen to this while you read!

Namaste

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Old 12-05-2009, 03:44 AM   #121
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I found this on a thread by the eXchanger. I condensed it, and transfered it. Thank-you eXchanger!

I found the following to be highly interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if this is quite close to the truth. This could really be who we are...and who our 'gods' are...and I'm not talking about the Founders or the Creator God of the Universe. I'm not seeing this Ultimate Divine Presence at work in this Solar System at this time. I wish I knew what happened to the original God. The vacuum is being filled by stand-ins and wannabe gods. I appreciate their efforts...I guess...but perhaps we don't need any gods whatsoever. I have no way of verifying the information...and I assume that it was channeled. I am wary of channeling...yet I still found the information to be fascinating. Reader discretion advised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXchanger View Post
The Truth about ETs - Original source: www.salrachele.com
Approximately 60% of all UFOs reported are from solar systems outside our own. The majority are from Zeta Reticuli, Alpha Centauri, Rigel & Betelguese (Orion), Sirius A & B, and the Pleiades. Approximately 20% are above top-secret military tests of experimental craft, often reverse engineered from Zeta craft. Approximately 20% are natural phenomena mistakenly identified as artificial craft.

In addition to the above, there are millions of encounters with beings from other dimensions (parallel, higher, etc.), most of whom are benevolent.

We Are All ETs to Some Extent

There is really no difference between ETs and humans, because Earth has been genetically manipulated for aeons by different ET races to the point that almost all of us have genetics from other star systems. There are often some physical genetic markers carried from generation to generation that can help identify one’s ET heritage. For example, those carrying genetic material from Nordic Pleaideans are often tall and muscular, with blond hair and blue eyes.. But with all the mixing and blending of our melting pot planet, this is a hard thing to track. For example, I am Venusian, but I do not have any markers that I'm aware of (I'm Italian with dark hair and eyes and olive skin while most Venusians are fair skinned and blond by nature).

Actually, if a non-human being were to walk among us (and some do), he/she might not even be noticed. Not only can some alien races disguise themselves, but many already look a lot like us.

As I've stated before, approximately 80% of all ETs are benevolent, kind, loving souls who sincerely want to lift humanity and welcome them back into the cosmic family. About 20% of ETs are malevolent, power-hungry beings with total disregard or even disdain of humans. Of course, there's some neutral middle ground (mostly alien scientists who have no ill feelings toward humanity but are not evolved enough spiritually to be in a position to decide what's best for us). In the name of research, they might dissect a human to learn more about him/her. (The subject of abductions is another matter for another time.)

The problem is, most of the negative ETs are vibrating in the 3D and 4D realms and so are often visible to 3D and 4D humans. Many of the higher, more loving races exist in 5D, 6D and 7D and can only be contacted by humans who are attuned to those densities.

So it APPEARS there are a lot of negative ETs involved with Earth. And of course, most of the world's rulers are controlled by negative ETs
(because of their lust for power).

There are many different "species" of aliens. Here's my latest assessment including those in human embodiment:

Orion Constellation: Councils of Rigel & Betelguese, Incarnates from Mars and Maldek. 80%
Pleiades System 7D: Adamic Race (original earthlings) from Lyra/Vega DNA, Atlantean Priest-Kings. 15%
Sirius B Binary System: Biblical Gods, Greek Gods, descendants of Israel & the Middle East. 2%
Venus, 6th Density: Generally blond-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned humans. 1%
Pleiades System 4D: Nordic-type tall muscular humans (original Vikings, Scandinavian races). 1%
Andromedan 4D: Oriental-type humans with small slanted eyes. 0.5%
Antares 4D: Red giant race mentioned in Genesis, Nordic-types, stocky European. 0.3%
Zeta Reticuli 3D: Human incarnates of original Zeta race before hybridization. 0.1%
Zeta Reticuli 3D Hybrid: Human incarnates derived from breeding programs. less than 0.1%
Andromedan 3D Hybrid: Human incarnates derived from breeding programs. less than 0.1%
Tau Ceti, Alpha Centauri, Polaris: Human incarnates from these star systems. (mostly 6D-8D). less than 0.1%
Arcturus 7D-9D: Emissaries incarnate in human form. less than one million.
Nibiru (Planet X): Nibiruan Council members, on and off-planet incarnations. about 80,000
ETs in alien bodies: Humanoids with off-planet incarnations. about 32,000
Walk-ins (soul transfers): Various races taking over human bodies through soul transfer. about 6,000
Other categories (3D-12D): Humans from star systems not mentioned above. about 50 million
Other entities (7D or higher): Spiritual masters from higher dimensions (avatars in manufactured bodies). about 300

Population percentage breakdown by density (current vibratory level of humans):

3D -- About 78%
4D -- About 22% (includes yours truly at approx. 4.65)
5D -- About 0.1%
6D -- About 0.00001%
7D -- About 0.000000001%

Here is my assessment of the types of craft observed in our skies, including the ones I've seen physically. The percentages are out of the total observed by humans:

Grey, saucer shaped, 10m-20m diameter - Zeta Reticuli - 3D/4D. 50%
Grey, saucer shaped, 10m-20m diameter - Illuminati Black Ops (Earth). 30%
Black, triangular, a few meters across - Alpha Draconis 3D (Reptilian). 10%
Multicolor, saucer-shaped - Pleiades 4D/7D, Venus 6D. 3%
Spherical, green glowing - Pleiades 4D/7D 1%
Black, triangular, very large - Illuminati Black Ops (Earth). 1%
Cigar-shaped (mothercraft - very large) - Zeta Reticuli - 3D/4D. 1%
Grey, Cylindrical - Andromeda - 3D/4D. 1%
Interdimensional, various sizes and colors - Sirius B, Orion, other systems (5D-9D). about 3%

NOTE: The Orions interbred with humans nearly half a million years ago. To my knowledge they have only a handful of emissaries from the constellation circling our heavens. The same goes for the Sirians. What about an impending invasion? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it already happened over 500,000 years ago and yeah, they won. No new invasion will be successful because Gaia (Mother Earth) is ascending
and only those souls on the path of ascension will be allowed to remain on Earth beyond the 2012 - 2030 A.D. window. See Earth Changes.

Please use your own divine judgment when dealing with ETs and especially when dealing with humans, as the percentage of negatively vibrating humans is much higher than that of ETs. In fact, if it were up to chance (which it is not), you would stand a better chance of meeting a positive ET than a positive human.

Detailed Descriptions of ETs - A complete description is found in Life On the Cutting Edge.

The Orions look like us because almost 80% of us are Orions.
The Pleiadeans look like us because they were the original root race of Earth.
The Sirians are a bit taller and lighter than the average humans.
The Antareans are large, muscular and have reddish-brown skin.
The Andromedans tend to incarnate as orientals, but the original ETs are tall and lanky with large heads and small slanted almond eyes.

The Zetas come in three main flavors:

(1) alabaster white and short with huge black almond eyes;
(2) short and grey with large black almond eyes (the most common); and
(3) tall, blue-skinned hybrids with small slanted almond eyes.

The other races are higher dimensional and can change their appearance at will.
The Venusians are fair-skinned, blond and translucent.
The Arcturians are large, blue-skinned translucent beings.
The higher-dimensional Pleiadeans are shimmering golden figures of light.
The highest level Pleiadeans look like the blue-white stars in the visible Pleiades star cluster.

ETs in Our Solar System - Note: Some of this information is also available in the article on Souls and Soul Rays.

Jupiter has advanced civilizations in the etheric atmosphere of the giant planet, vibrating at 5th and 6th density levels. They are not completely free of service-to-self (STS) vibrations and there is some kind of hierarchy to their government. They are large translucent beings originating in many local sectors of the galaxy. They were called to Jupiter to learn and grow spiritually with the assistance of Arcturians and Venusians. These beings have developed the power side of their nature more than the love side, although they are generally of a positive energy. However, that energy is somewhat harsh compared to the Venusians. Their biggest lesson appears to be finding balance between love, wisdom and power and integrating the mistakes they made during the Mars experience hundreds of thousands of years ago.

The Orions (who have controlled Earth for the last half million years) sometimes incarnate etherically in the atmosphere of Jupiter once they have ascended from the warrior-masculine-aggressive Martian paradigm.

Most of the rulers of the Jupiter conclave (about 1,000 rulers and 150,000 entities) are being tutored from higher realms in the ways of unconditional love, and how to govern a planet without ego superiority issues (a tough lesson).

The Venusians are a sixth density race from which the goddess mythology arose. They look very much as pictured in visionary paintings – long flowing golden hair, flowing robes and translucent bodies of light, some with wings.

The Martians are really the Orions prior to coming to Earth. They began their incarnations on the surface of Mars and later went underground when their atmosphere was destroyed by warfare.

The Maldekians are really Orions that once inhabited Maldek, the planet between Mars and Jupiter. They blew their planet apart with warfare and what’s left is the asteroid belt. The souls incarnated on Mars and Earth after the destruction of Maldek. The destruction of this planet threw the other planets out of their original orbits and created problems far beyond the solar system. For this reason, the Divine Councils of the higher dimensions have intervened and will not allow the total destruction of any more planets in this sector.

The Saturn Tribunal is a council of higher-dimensional entities from various systems that use etheric Saturn as their base of operations.

Original source for the above information: www.salrachele.com

Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 12-05-2009 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:34 PM   #122
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The latest Avalon meltdown rendered the video links inoperable. I reconstructed them...so everything is back to normal...until the next meltdown.

Namaste
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:21 PM   #123
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Please consider this Amen Ra thread http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...d=1#post202245 in the context of the God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer thread. Amen Ra may really be at the center of everything.

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Old 12-21-2009, 11:42 PM   #124
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Can you picture Jesus driving a Ferrari, wearing a sweat-suit and a Rolex watch as He pulls out of His beach-house driveway? Most would recoil from such a thought! Some would say that to suggest this is irreverent and inappropriate. Once again, I am conflicted. I love Jesus, both historically and within my heart. However, I would love to have a Ferrari, a Rolex, and a beach-house! Could I have my Jesus, and my Ferrari too? Is this the Rich Young Ruler 2009? Allow me to suggest that if I ever became a Wall Street wizard, a best-selling author, or a song-writer and singer, it would be entirely appropriate, as a Christian, to have a Ferrari, a Rolex, and a beach-house. Gasp! Shock! Disbelief! Disgust!

Now that I'm in deep H2O, allow me to try to escape the do-gooder sharks! The money making activities listed, if done honestly and ethically, are entirely appropriate. If a lot of money is made, the books are properly kept, and the taxes are honestly paid (even though the Federal Income Tax appears to be unconstitutional), the car, watch, and home are just rewards of the free enterprise system. The Ferrari could be a $60,000 used F355, rather than a $160,000 F430. Likewise, the Rolex could be purchased from an estate sale instead of on Rodeo Drive. The beach-house could be a small, modest property, located far from Malibu. If purchased shrewdly, all of these items could be excellent investments, and yield large financial returns.

Then, the majority of the income of all of the above could be donated to a variety of worthy causes. And one could drive said Ferrari to a Habitat For Humanity project, and pound nails for 8 hours. And the upper crust friends one would make on the job and on the golf course could be encouraged to go and do likewise! And they would have the resources to make a huge difference in this miserable world. Have you heard of Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Warren Buffet, Jimmy Carter, Bono, et.al.? I'm not sure that they started out to be Christ-like, but they sure are giving away lots of time and money! Maybe we Christians have been too narrow in what we define as Christ-like! I know I have...and I'm trying to change.

The Ferrari dealers make money to send their kids to college while people enjoy the nice cars. The Rolex employees make money for the necessities of life while people enjoy wearing these nice watches. Likewise, the construction and real-estate people make money to make their mortgage payments, while buyers enjoy their nice new homes. Part of the rationalization for this materialistic daydream is that good, ethical people should be well rewarded for their success. The bad, unethical people should not be well rewarded! They should be stripped of what they have, and locked up! I know I'm living in a dream-world. Having said this, one probably doesn't need a Ferrari collection, or 3 waterfront estates throughout the world! And one should never, ever be unethical or dishonest in the pursuit of money! People should pursue money and then become philanthropists. And they should never, ever look down on anyone. They should never, ever stop being nice to everyone.

I like the ancient Egyptian body position of reaching up with one hand, and reaching down with the other. Taking and giving. I also like the phrase, "Stand tall, and lift!" Striving for success and then helping others to climb higher! We must not neglect the top or the bottom. And the middle-class should be getting larger instead of smaller! How about one big, happy, stratified middle-class, with incentives, but without extreme wealth or destitute poverty? So, yes, I think it is possible at least, that Jesus would drive a Ferrari, wear a Rolex, and live in a beach-house! He probably would do it incognito to avoid misunderstandings. But Jesus hung out with just about everyone, from rich to poor...and maybe we should too!

As an afterthought, it should be just fine to not have a car, a watch or sweat-suit, and live in a studio apartment with no view! I have! The historical Jesus didn't even have a house! We shouldn't look up to others, or look down on others! We should all look straight ahead at each-other as children of God! By the way, don't take this too seriously. But don't dismiss it entirely, either!

Namaste
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:04 AM   #125
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I'm on a role procrastinating here, so I'll just type out another quick reply:

Seek first the kingdom of heaven, inside of you, and ALL will Be given unto you.

No word of a lie. There's nothing wrong with a fast car and a nice watch. However, there is something wrong with it if it is so you can be above others or feel better than them. The via delerosa is not what Being enlightened is all about.

The future leaders, the president's the world leadership, business leaders, musicians, etc. etc. are those who are the Pure in heart, the enligthened Ones.

They will lead not from Ego, but from the rock of Christ consciousness. They will build the foundations for a world that is not built on greed and the shifting sands of the human ego, but rather on Purity that will enable a world that provides abundance (including FAST transporation ) for All!

It's not a socialist or communist future, each one will reap as they sew, but from a much more enlightened perspective, they will sew much better and reap much better.

What needs to happen now is not that the spiritual people shun power as wrong, it is that they indeed TAKE BACK THEIR POWER NOW.

Power is a divine flame and we are co-creators, not slaves, not peasants. We are co-creators and this Earth is our charge to take dominion over.

We will do so, when we let our Divine spark within take dominion over us, because we finally give up the struggle and realize it is who we really are.

Last edited by 14 Chakras; 12-22-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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