View Full Version : Family history and symbols

27th December 2010, 20:17
i have a question about symbols..

My family was "noble" in the early 1300's . There was a castle though all that remains is a fountain. My sister went to Paris over the holidays and found the fountain in Mont Marthe ..


The fountain has a fish wrapped around a trident..

we have very little information about this end of the family..

Most of the decendents are no longer in france..they are in australia and canada

27th December 2010, 20:30
this was the castle..


27th December 2010, 20:35
are you hoping to get an illuminati "get out of death camp free card"? Long lost nobility? :)

27th December 2010, 20:37
Funny lol..

No .. i am trying to tie up some loose ends.. alot of secrets in my family..my sister and i are trying to find the truth

27th December 2010, 20:55
shoot. i was hoping you had an "angle". I have always had a bit if an Anastasia syndrome (lol).

27th December 2010, 20:57
Who knows!! lol

I think the trident and fish is a synbol of atlantis but that really doesnt mean anything

27th December 2010, 21:21
check out on page 6...

Talisman (http://books.google.com/books?id=9MWlijSg_zwC&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=symbol+fish+wrapped+around+trident&source=bl&ots=KUkSQniKn5&sig=PIDg37VyupnOSSPNEP9CzmDqZsQ&hl=en&ei=qgAZTaPOBYKosAPL_vimDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=symbol%20fish%20wrapped%20around%20trident&f=false)


The dust has barely settled in the Holy Land after a terrible raid on Temple Mount when a group of archaeologists in the Judean desert stumble upon a secret room inside a cave. Its walls are covered in Egyptian hieroglyphs and other symbols, including the curious image of a dolphin wrapped around a trident. There they discover an old clay jar, also bearing this unusual symbol, and containing ancient scrolls...Meanwhile, a covert and ruthless sect called The Sons of Light are planning to turn the world upside down...


none of the images I have found show the dolphin's tail wrapping up and around the trident spears...

One place was talking about Navigators having Dolphins in their family coat of arms being sea travelers. being the 1300s when they "moved" and most Templars were royalty, you might be looking at the same puzzle I am from a different angle... France...

27th December 2010, 21:28
likely you already know this, Celine, but the fish is traditionally symbolic of Christ, & the trident of Poseidon

27th December 2010, 21:40

Hence we see a Delphic tripod with a dolphin upon it, on a silver coin of Vitellius, that emperor having, as the inscription teaches us, been one of the XV. viri appointed to the care of sacrificial ceremonies. A similar type appears on a denarius of Titus, but not with the same legend. -- See XV VIR. SACRis FACiundis.

ancientcoins (http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=dolphin)

notice it is being sold by Fontaine auction... That might be an old window from the castle...

27th December 2010, 21:45
Venini Dolphin w/Trident Martinuzzi Glass


27th December 2010, 22:07
Neptune- Nimrod --Pisces, Oanes the fish man.

Those are the immediate connections.

Which is about as esoteric as it gets.

The house of chicken?

St. Hubert?

I prefer KFC.... but I might be wrong, it's been a long time since I tried St. Hubert.

27th December 2010, 23:04
The trident is usually a symbol of the underworld.
I think other posters have indicated something like this... the underworld is the world of sexuality and fear, in other words the earth plane.

About that cat-fish looking symbol.
Take a look a George Kavassilias. I hope that spelling is close enough to get you there.

He had an experience which he relates in one of his more recent interviews of being taken to the moon where a ET queen resides.
He had to swim under a ledge to get to her and when he got there, he described her as looking like a catfish but very very big, I can't remember, maybe 8-12 feet long.
When he returned his bedsheets and clothes were soaking wet and smelled strongly of fish.

Maybe these are clues that will help you in your search.


28th December 2010, 03:00

ancientcoins (http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=dolphin)

notice it is being sold by Fontaine auction... That might be an old window from the castle...

Wow...this is really great! thank you ...now i just have to find some connections..

Lost Soul
28th December 2010, 13:46
Was your family hugenots?

28th December 2010, 15:56
i have no idea...but the Huguenot seem to be part of the 16th century and the castle/fountain is from the 14th century.

interesting read though..thank you


29th December 2010, 08:54
Also of note- in French terminology, the heir to the throne was "Dauphin" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauphin_of_France

Hmm.. if the castle was from XIV c, it must've been quite remodelled.. then again, I have quite skewed idea about what constitutes a castle, living where I live :)

29th December 2010, 14:36
Being in the new world... i envy many europeans footfall...

each step, has so much history/enerygy...

This is the only picture/drawing we have found of the castle.


It has been complelty destroyed...though i have no info on when or why. All that remains is the fountain.

And thank you Luke...though i knew the air to the thrown was named dauphin... i did not relate it to the dolphin on the crest.

29th December 2010, 14:47
It seems also...a street now named " Rue des Martyrs" used to be named rue des Porcheron

29th December 2010, 20:08
Patrick Eudeline published a novel called Rue des Martyrs

This street was sung by Francois Hadji-Lazaro : In the room of Bar-Tabac de la rue des Martyrs.

D es taverns were grouped around the chapel porches, replaced in 1646 by Notre Dame de Lorette, near the present church. Le lieu s'appelait des Porcherons. The place was called porches. Mais le souvenir des supplices dont les buttes Montmartre avaient été le théâtre à l'époque des persécutions du christianisme, ce souvenir ne fut pas consacré sans variante par le nom du chemin ou de la rue des Martyrs, que le plan de Lacaille qualifiait chemin de Montmartre, en y marquant au bas la place des commis chargés de percevoir les droits d'entrée en ville. But the memory of the tortures which the buttes Montmartre had been the scene at the time of persecution of Christianity, this memory was not spent without variation by the path name or the Rue des Martyrs

well another path leading to a time when the Catholic Church turned on the Templars in France...

I n this street precisely the Duke of Trémoille the reign of Louis XV, had a pied-à-terre for his gallantry; December 28, 1162, where he gave a supper to MM. de Froulay, d'Étampes, de Vieuville et de Valençay, ainsi qu'aux De Lozanges, Saint-Martin, Ledoux et Buart, figurantes à l'Opéra. of Froulay, d'Etampes, and of Vieuville Valençay, as well as with lozanges, St. Martin, Ledoux and Buart, appearing in opera.

A u même corps de ballet appartenait la Dlle Marquise, à demeure rue des Martyrs deux ans auparavant. A t the same ballet belonged Dlle Marquise, rue des Martyrs permanently two years ago. Elle avait déjà des relations avec le duc d'Orléans, père de Philippe Égalité, et elle mit au monde un garçon, qu'il fut question de légitimer. She already had relations with the Duke of Orleans, father of Philip Egalite, and she gave birth to a boy, it was a question of legitimacy. Les avis du conseil que le prince assembla à deux reprises, pour en délibérer, furent partagés : l'abbé de Breteuil, chancelier de sa maison, était favorable au projet ; mais le prince de Conti parlait contre avec énergie. The Board's opinion that Prince assembled twice to deliberate, were divided: the Abbe de Breteuil, chancellor of his house, was favorable, but the Prince de Conti spoke with energy cons. Aussi bien le duc d'Orléans n'était pas sûr que l'enfant ne ressemblât pas au jeune marquis de Villeroi. Both the Duke of Orleans was not sure the child does not resemble the young Marquis of Villeroy.

M ais au commencement du mois de mars suivant, il annonça à toute sa cour la seconde grossesse de sa maîtresse. B ut the beginning of March after he announced to his court the second pregnancy of his mistress. Marquise fut surprise à Bagnolet, pendant l'été, par les douleurs de l'enfantement ; elle accoucha de deux enfants, différents par le sexe, mais tous deux assez délicats pour qu'on jugeât prudent, de les baptiser sur-le-champ, en l'absence du prince. Marquise was surprised at Bagnolet, in the summer, by the pains of childbirth and she gave birth to two children by different sex, but both are sensitive enough to judge him being cautious, to baptize them on the spot in the absence of the prince. M. le curé de Bagnolet demanda quel était le père au parrain et à la marraine, qui n'osèrent pas le nommer, et le baptême fut retardé. The vicar of Bagnolet the father asked what was the sponsor and the sponsor, who dared not name, and baptism was delayed. Quant aux deux enfants ils vécurent ; l'un est la souche d'une famille peu estimable, mais assez haut placée. As for the two children they lived, and one strain is a small family worthy, but pretty high up...

story link translated (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=fr|en&u=http://www.paris-pittoresque.com/rues/176.htm&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3DRue%2Bdes%2BMartyrs%26 sl%3Den%26tl%3Dfr)

the translations aren't perfect but gives a possible spin of a royal heir...

29th December 2010, 20:48
The high street rue des Martyrs MINERVA has retained its medieval narrow.
On voit sur le coté droit la porte des Templiers ! Seen on the right side door of the Templars!

TEMPLARS of the gate called the XIII th century or ownership of hospitals

I can't grab the images from this link but worth seeing...

Templar entrance 13th century (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=fr|en&u=http://roukyben.over-blog.com/article-29759031.html&prev=/translate_s%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3DRue%2Bdes%2BMartyrs%2B templar%26sl%3Den%26tl%3Dfr&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhiqOHEGneVOCMp1sZTrbbz2F4Xlsg)

29th December 2010, 20:52
Yes... a bastard heir it seems...twins actualy

29th December 2010, 21:32
The Corsican Brothers? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087042/)

29th December 2010, 21:50
Their influence extended through much of France and into Italy, Germany and England. However, with the end of the crusades, the Templars' purpose was less well defined. Eventually, they seemed redundant with other militaristic orders including the Teutonic knights and Hospitallers. On Friday the 13th of October 1307, King Philip IV of France ordered the knights arrested and the leaders executed. His prime motivation was to eliminate large debts owed by the crown to the order.

Many of the Templars' lands were transferred to other orders, like the Hospitallers. Interestingly, some of the best preserved Templarand Hospitaller sites are located in the Averyon department of France. Perhaps it was the remote location and undulating natural landscape that generally spared the religious edifices from later upheavals around the country. Even so, the Hospitallers fortified many of the villages for security during the Hundred Years War...

full story... (http://mistralwriter.blogspot.com/2009/11/larzac-templars-hospitallers.html)

29th December 2010, 21:58
this is an old Templar Church in Larzac...

anyone know what the spiral symbol means?


29th December 2010, 22:02
so now I've learned a little more, the Templars disappeared in France replaced by the Hospitallers who held knowledge handed to the Masons...

my guess is your family was a part of it all...

look at the ceiling of the church, is that a dolphin and trident?

of the churches tore down, a few stained glassed windows were preserved and passed down through the ages until it ended up at an auction...


these churches are "Romanesque" which might explain the roman symbols...

29th December 2010, 22:51
an interesting trail to follow...thank you

29th December 2010, 23:45
A very good read ...

Les Hospitaliers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller)

30th December 2010, 00:16

put a circle around the cross on each of their chests and you have the Templar emblem...


The Hospitallers and the Knights Templar, formed in 1119,[2] became the most powerful Christian groups in the area. The order came to distinguish itself in battles with the Muslims, its soldiers wearing a black surcoat with a white cross. The Order's practice of acting first and legislating later is epitomised by the fact that it was not until 1248 that the pope, Innocent IV (1243–54), approved a standard military dress for the Hospitallers to be worn in battle. Instead of a closed cape over their armor (which restricted their movements) they should wear a red surcoat with a white cross emblazoned on it.[3]

30th December 2010, 18:27
You can never be sure of your background unless you have 100% documented evidence from each generation and a tested connection by blood. plus if you were related to any form of power family back in the day and it has been forgotten about then any power you name once had is dead.

30th December 2010, 19:19
My path isnt about finding "power" in my family...its about answering certain questions.

As well i find this path has taught me much about symbols..

spent most of the morning checking out a link (http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=58) from another thread about symbols

30th December 2010, 19:29
did you see the small space craft as part of the Masonic symbols?


second pillar from the left, top symbol to the right of it...

4th January 2011, 20:53
my uncles had told me before that i have scottish origins, this thread prompted me to look deeper, my last name only came to be a couple hundred years ago, but both it and the name it originates from originate to the murray clan wich is basically the moray clan in the film braveheart, but the murray clan has a crest of a mermaid being locked inside of a belt that forms a circle around it, Murray was first used as a surname by descendants of the Pictish people of ancient Scotland. The ancestors of the Murray family lived in the county of Moray in the northeast of Scotland, but some historians describe the Clan's forbears as originally Flemish, some as Lowland Scots. More enlightened research places them as descendents of MacAngus de Moravia, who was descended from King Duncan of Scotland and who was the first Earl of Murray, both my name and the name it came from are septs to th murray clan

4th January 2011, 20:57

4th January 2011, 21:03
Again the Family Crestis just part of the story of Coats of Arms or Heraldry. Heraldry is defined as the hereditary art or science of blazoning, the description is appropriate technical terms of Coats-of-Arms and other heraldic and armorial insignia, and is of very ancient origin. These insignia were the reward of personal merit and could be secured by the humblest as well as the highest. They are today the testimonials and warrants of bravery, heroism, and meritorious deeds of our ancestors.Arms:Shields at first were painted simply with one or more bands of colour or 'ordinaries'. Later, the ordinaries were used in conjuction with other figures or symbols; e.g. beasts, birds, fish, flowers, celestial objects, monsters, etc. Heraldry was thus rapidly enriched through the constant necessity to achive distinction.Crest:This device was worn on top of the helmet, and was usually made of wood, metal, or boiled leather. It provided the double advantage of easy identification and addition of height to the wearer. In heraldry today, the crestand armsare usually displayed together.Motto:The motto generaly evolved from the watchword or war-cry of the family. Often the motto contained an allusion to a memorable event in the family history; e.g., the "Bruce" motto 'Fuimus' (Latin-'We were') refers to the fact that the family were once the kings of Scotland.Torse (torse or Wreath):The torse was formed by two pieces of silk twisted together by the lady who chose the bearer for her knight, and was used to hold the crest and mantling in place on the helm. The tinctures of the torse are always those of the principal metal and colour of the arms, with the exception being in continental heraldry.Helm (Helmet, Casque, or Morion):These varied in shape in different ages and countries, and always in the case of titled arms.The Esquire Helm, as depicted in family arms, is always with closed visor and facing to the left.Mantling:The mantling was spread over and draped from the helmet, and served as protection, "to repel the extremities

4th January 2011, 21:19
Noticed the kabalistic symbolism in that mason image pretty quick.




They even dropped in the rainbow to represent the Ain Soph or levels of limitless negative light.

P.S. Anyone know anything about the symbolism of 9 ravens? or possible crows... Black birds anyway.. :P