Controversial but Simple Experiment Exposing Chemtrails Everyone Can Do!

[ExomatrixTV]

I have had a practical "Chem-Brainwave" today, 1 May 2018 :D

http://whynotnews.eu/pix/chemtruthers.jpg (http://youtube.com/ChemTruthers)

A controversial idea about how to do a simple experiment.

Find the biggest clean pan you have and put it outside when it rains just after you've seen a lot of chemtrails that day. Then bring the pan with collected rainwater to the boil ... let it boil until all the water has evaporated (make sure you stay there). Then study if you see a residue (remnant) in the pan, this will most likely have a powdered form. Take a photo to compare later (color is important).

Grab a magnet and test whether something of that powder sticks to the magnet. If this happens, put it on camera!

Do the whole test again but this time when it rains on a chemtrail-free day! Compare the color of the powder and also the amount of powder left. Note that you start with the same amount of rainwater! If you want to test something on certain substances search on the internet what you can do to detect certain chemicals! ... Not everything has to be expensive to prove something ... You can also extend the test by measuring the PH levels with a litmus test! (not expensive to do). Record this with your camera. Compare the 2 types of rainwater that you have collected. D.m.v. camera images.

http://whynotnews.eu/pix/chemtruthers-chart.png (http://youtube.com/ChemTruthers)


Best, of course is to have a reliable independent laboratory examine the residue on heavy metals & aluminum etc. Would be even better if they could also detect nano-particles.

Good luck to all who are going to do this ... I will do it too and capture it all on video!

My youtube channel about chemtrails is called #chemtruthers see: http://youtube.com/ChemTruthers :bowing:


Cheers,
#JohnKuhles aka #ExomatrixTV http://Stop5G.net

http://whynotnews.eu/pix/chemtruthers2.jpg (http://youtube.com/ChemTruthers)

[justntime2learn]

Hi John,

The experiment sounds like a great idea !

We're going to try it.

Cheers, J

[ExomatrixTV]

If anyone has any suggestions to do above experiment better please share here, appreciate if you do, thanks :thumbsup::dancing:

[Builder]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

[ExomatrixTV]

ymcZekX30Hg

AClt8BgXPpQ

¤=[Post Update]=¤

This is me:

ljvhfbG_oTg

[cursichella1]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

On Forbiddenknowledgetv.net (https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/chemtrails-styles-of-the-rich-and-infamous-2/)a few days ago. They're spraying something.
j7TOPdn_d6o

[Joe Akulis]

To suggest or assume that "chemtrailers" believe everything is a chemtrail is a fallacy.

I can easily tell the difference between a contrail, which dissipates shortly after the aircraft goes through the sky, and ... something else, which stays there and turns into its own cloud and usually combined with other trails will blanket the entire sky for a good portion of the day.

If someone claims that these too are also just another type of contrail, then I guess I'd be interested in knowing what changed between the 80s and now, because we never had this problem back then.

[Cidersomerset]

Interesting suggestion.....

[enigma3]

As far as I know, we are aware of two lovely products being spewed. They are lithium and very small aluminum particles.

We in Upstate New York have seen virtually no spraying in the last several days. That is unusual.

I would like to know how long it takes for the aluminum particles to float down to the ground to the point where you won't breathe that stuff in.

[ExomatrixTV]

zNeOTOytEeA

[Fellow Aspirant]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'.

Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?

B.

[Flash]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

you will see from the early 60's newspaper articles of Quebec northern farmers protesting in front of the Quebec government to stop the spraying of clouds to make rain, because their culture were rotting of too heavy moisture for many years in a row.

The Quebec parliament admitted they were spraying the clouds to make rain as an experiment and promised to stop it, which they did.

One of those farmers was my grand father.

iF this is not the beginning of chemtrails, tell me what is?

(we always have been the testing ground for many CIA experiments here in Quebec).

[raregem]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

I wonder what you have been studying in your basic physics and engineering to so strongly think that chemtrails are some kind of craze. I get the impression you think it does not exist. I am stunned considering your aviation background. I am stunned that people for two decades have NOT been able to discern a chemtrail from a contrail.
Contrails quickly dissipate and back to a normal sky whereas a chemical trail stays in the air and widens, There are many photos on the net where the chemtrails are crossed like a tic tac toe game. They do not disappear but get wider. My understanding from earlier tests -the chemicals were barium, aluminum, dissected red blood cells and other things I have forgotten. Nano particle form. The purpose of crossing their lines was/is to carry an energy waveform such as ELF (extreme low frequency), to aid in weather control/manipulation and to poison the people, plants and blanket the air so the heat cannot escape causing more damage. I may not say this well enough for you but do understand the gist is here.

p.s. No need to prove you wrong. There is an abundant amount of info, photos and discussions on the net. Not everyone is a kook. Perhaps, you can do some experiments and prove the believers wrong instead. I have seen the planes go incognito (cloaked), too. I have done my homework and have tried to show many others as it is happening. Blank stare.

[raregem]

Awesome suggestion ExoMatrix. Should you get enough statistics from us -would you publish the results here, please?

[ExomatrixTV]

Awesome suggestion ExoMatrix. Should you get enough statistics from us -would you publish the results here, please?

sure :coffee::thumbsup:

[MorningFox]

To suggest or assume that "chemtrailers" believe everything is a chemtrail is a fallacy.

I can easily tell the difference between a contrail, which dissipates shortly after the aircraft goes through the sky, and ... something else, which stays there and turns into its own cloud and usually combined with other trails will blanket the entire sky for a good portion of the day.

If someone claims that these too are also just another type of contrail, then I guess I'd be interested in knowing what changed between the 80s and now, because we never had this problem back then.

Exactly this. There's even proof of them going back to old films and cartoons (Disney) and adding in chemtrails to the sky that were not there in the originals. They're trying to convince us it's normal, but we know it isn't. Some of us do, anyway.

[Nick Matkin]

The residue has to be analysed by a decent lab. But I thought all labs capable of doing this have been knobbled by TPTB, so they won't find anything significant.

Anyway, surely it's better to gather much larger amount of water, off a clean plastic roof for example, then boil that down. Not sure what the significance of magnetic residue is, since 'chenmtails' are not ferrous based. Iron residue (from non-industrial areas) in rainwater is mostly of meteoric origin since there are many thousands on micro-meteors that burn up in the upper atmosphere every day, most too dim to be visible, but sufficient to be detected by radio reflections.

Wasn't there some crazy story about power-station fly ash being used, or was that just another silly internet factoid?

[justntime2learn]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'.

Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?

B.

I've noticed in the Great Northwest and commented on this before.

I've noticed something else too, but it may be nothing. we grow most of the food that we eat and I noticed every year that the pumpkin leaves which are quite large develop a whitish powder on them that gets thicker the closer to harvest. I don't notice it on leaf lettuce, however it takes about 45 days to grow whereas the pumpkins are already growing and I won't Harvest them until October.

Also, I'm not sure how scientific the experiment is and I don't see how it would prove Chemtrails are or aren't real, however I thought it would be interesting to see. The test reminded me of a video I believe I saw on Avalon with cereal and a magnet.

NHqN-Be5nlU

GwTAqraKOgw

[justntime2learn]

The residue has to be analysed by a decent lab. But I thought all labs capable of doing this have been knobbled by TPTB, so they won't find anything significant.

Anyway, surely it's better to gather much larger amount of water, off a clean plastic roof for example, then boil that down. Not sure what the significance of magnetic residue is, since 'chenmtails' are not ferrous based. Iron residue (from non-industrial areas) in rainwater is mostly of meteoric origin since there are many thousands on micro-meteors that burn up in the upper atmosphere every day, most too dim to be visible, but sufficient to be detected by radio reflections.

Wasn't there some crazy story about power-station fly ash being used, or was that just another silly internet factoid?

Coal and fly ash

Here it is Nick:

F6r0GqbH9Os

[digger]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'.

Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?

B.

I have noticed the correlation over the last 6 years between chemtrail spraying and rain/snow events, and the spraying will usually preceed the event by 2 to 3 days everytime. For example; we had spraying on Monday and Tuesday here near Sudbury, Ont. and this morning it is raining steady. Where we live is no where near any major airport and we generally have no commercial flights over us in an average day or at the most maybe 2 or 3. On chemdays, we will have 30 or more flights obliterating our sky and the flights are all mostly on the same bearing and altitude(about 40000 ft.) above passenger flights. Most of these flights do not identify on flightradar, and it will say registration unknown. Lately I have been seeing fleets of all white twin engine jets that are unmarked and I believe these planes are from a new spray contractor. I have also on occasion seen Air Canada jets with the red maple leaf on the tail spraying the persistant horizon to horizon chemtrail, most would think it is a domestic flight except for the crap that is coming out the backend.
I would like to see a daily registry of spraying activity from various locations so we can document clearly when these offenses are taking place in the event this evidence could be used in court. I think the government is above letting that happen in this so-called democracy.

[Noelle]

I've seen far fewer plumes in my corner of the world, Florida's Space Coast, over the last couple of months. Up until that point for the last 2+ years, it was almost every day, on both high-humidity and low-humidity days. I'm willing to try the experiment.

I took this photo in March.

[Joe Akulis]

Anybody notice over the past decade or two how a lot of people come down with respiratory illnesses after cutting down a real Christmas tree and bringing it indoors? Look up. Now you see what's been gathering on the branches of those evergreens.

Guess all the trees that lose their leaves in the fall are just lucky. *sad*

[Builder]

I wonder what you have been studying in your basic physics and engineering to so strongly think that chemtrails are some kind of craze.

Helping humans to fly is part of my spiritual mission in this life:
At age 10 I could identify and name every aircraft ever built.
At age 12 I could flying manned aircraft.
At about the same age I started studying aerodynamics and doing my first calculations for RC models I built.
Flying gliders at earliest allowed age of 15.
In my early twenties, while my peers from school were still in college, I got hired by the industrial military complex (which was a very strange story including MiB that shall be told another time). As a long haired hippie in t-shirts and jeans I had fun showing the much older PhDs in their suites how to improve their technology.
Got some of my tech flying in one of the latest generation military jet fighters.
Now working on electric "Uber" drones that can fly you from A to B without a pilot.

...so I think I know a thing or two about aviation.

My opinion so far:
Are government planes spraying chemicals? Yes!
Is the white stuff behind commercial airliners chemicals? No!

Why does it sometimes spread and sometimes disappear? Well talk to a meteorologist (there are very good explanations for every scenario with as much reproducible science experiments as you want)

Why are there sometimes more trails than engines? Talk to a pilot, who will tell you about fuel dump procedures (not nice to the environment, but necessary in emergencies)

What about all those images showing tanks in airplanes? Ask flight test engineers! Most of them are to simulate load scenarios while testing new aircraft. Very few of them are showing real chemical tanks of government aircraft. Bingo! But those are only few compared to the thousands of passenger aircraft that are in the air at any given moment.

Can you hide a chemicals tank in a passenger aircraft? Ask aviation engineers and maintenance personell (they will tell you no).

Can an airline afford the extra weight for chemicals tanks? Ask a financial planner at an airline (will tell you no, they are optimizing every single pound of weight).

Are there chemicals in the standard jet fuel? Rent a small jet for a few thousand bucks, stick a pipette into the tank, do your analysis!

How many teeth has a horse? Find one and count them instead discussing theories in forums ;-)

BTW, talking about weather engineering, this is definitely real:

China is attempting the largest artificial rain experiment in history, over an area 3 times the size of Spain (https://www.businessinsider.de/china-is-attempting-the-largest-artificial-rain-experiment-in-history-2018-5)



China's 'Sky River' will be the largest artificial rain experiment in history, covering a land mass larger than Alaska and three times the size of Spain.

Researchers plan to install thousands of fuel-burning chambers across the Tibetan mountains to induce rainfall, in a form of weather modification called 'cloud seeding'.

Some researchers believe this experiment would threaten ecosystems, since cloud seeding doesn't actually produce more rain — instead, it redirects clouds to rain in a different location.

[raregem]

Wow. Rather contemptuous response Builder. Btw I learned how to fly a single engine airplane before I learned to drive a car from my father who was a naval pilot. So please, pull back the reins on the condescention. Not relative to the postings here. You want to be right, then you are right. Just to back track a bit... these chemtrails are not about commercial airliners but planes specifially intended for the purpose of spewing poison soup for the masses and the planet. You count the horses teeth yourself cuz well, ... I will stop there. Thanks for the beating !!!!

[ExomatrixTV]

Wow. Rather contemptuous response Builder. Btw I learned how to fly a single engine airplane before I learned to drive a car from my father who was a naval pilot. So please, pull back the reins on the condescention. Not relative to the postings here. You want to be right, then you are right. Just to back track a bit... these chemtrails are not about commercial airliners but planes specifially intended for the purpose of spewing poison soup for the masses and the planet. You count the horses teeth yourself cuz well, ... I will stop there. Thanks for the beating !!!!

very well put raregem :thumbsup:

[Matt P]

I’ve noticed a lot of brilliant doctors who are complete idiots about nutrition and vaccines.
My son and daughter’s brilliant PhD math professor believes the bullsh*t official story of the physics of 3 steel skyscrapers falling at freefall on 9/11 due to fires.
My father, one of the book-smartest people I’ve ever known, thinks Oswald was the lone assassin.
I could go on and on. We’ve all seen these people.
Point being , how amazingly intelligent you may be does NOT make you intelligent in all things, highly aware or immune from brainwashing. And...using one’s perceived brilliance in a debate instead of actual facts is quite funny.

How an expert aviator can somehow miss chemtrails and geoengineering is incredible...but common.

[AlyssaRoselyn]

I saw the trails one day and eventually the sky was completely white. The next two days were very sunny and clear; then it rained for two days straight. I don't know if these observations are entirely relevant but I tend to joke and say "I guess the government doesn't work on Tuesdays" when ever I see a clear sky. So I do pay attention and I have seen a cycle. I'll start documenting for my own curiosity!

[Nick Matkin]

...so I think I know a thing or two about aviation.

My opinion so far:
Are government planes spraying chemicals? Yes!
Is the white stuff behind commercial airliners chemicals? No!

Why does it sometimes spread and sometimes disappear? Well talk to a meteorologist (there are very good explanations for every scenario with as much reproducible science experiments as you want)

Why are there sometimes more trails than engines? Talk to a pilot, who will tell you about fuel dump procedures (not nice to the environment, but necessary in emergencies)

What about all those images showing tanks in airplanes? Ask flight test engineers! Most of them are to simulate load scenarios while testing new aircraft. Very few of them are showing real chemical tanks of government aircraft. Bingo! But those are only few compared to the thousands of passenger aircraft that are in the air at any given moment.

Can you hide a chemicals tank in a passenger aircraft? Ask aviation engineers and maintenance personell (they will tell you no).

Can an airline afford the extra weight for chemicals tanks? Ask a financial planner at an airline (will tell you no, they are optimizing every single pound of weight).

Are all of the hundreds of thousands of people working in the world wide aviation industry part of giant conspiracy? Of course, because they can all keep a secret, even those in rouge countries ;-)

Are there chemicals in the standard jet fuel? Rent a small jet for a few thousand bucks, stick a pipette into the tank, do your analysis!

How many teeth has a horse? Find one and count them instead discussing theories in forums ;-)



Plenty of sensible stuff there. It's informed knowledge from pilots, maintenance engineers, fuel analysts, meteorologists - amateur or professional, aircraft loading personnel, etc. that is needed. But they never appear on here as they'd be abused and accused of being shills. Sometimes having people who really do know what they're talking about shines a light on the subject. But it rather goes against the grain on a conspiracy forum.

Like may conspiracies, they are mostly spread by those with no technical knowledge of what is or isn't possible. Weather modification is a real thing, but it's obvious to anyone who thinks about it that not all the stuff seen in the sky is sinister; far, far too many people would be involved in the production, transport and loading onto the aircraft...

[Icare]

Quote from Builder:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::
Helping humans to fly is part of my spiritual mission in this life:
At age 10 I could identify and name every aircraft ever built.
At age 12 I could flying manned aircraft.
At about the same age I started studying aerodynamics and doing my first calculations for RC models I built.
Flying gliders at earliest allowed age of 15.
In my early twenties, while my peers from school were still in college, I got hired by the industrial military complex (which was a very strange story including MiB that shall be told another time). As a long haired hippie in t-shirts and jeans I had fun showing the much older PhDs in their suites how to improve their technology.
Got some of my tech flying in one of the latest generation military jet fighters.
Now working on electric "Uber" drones that can fly you from A to B without a pilot.

...so I think I know a thing or two about aviation.

My opinion so far:
Are government planes spraying chemicals? Yes!
Is the white stuff behind commercial airliners chemicals? No!

Why does it sometimes spread and sometimes disappear? Well talk to a meteorologist (there are very good explanations for every scenario with as much reproducible science experiments as you want)

Why are there sometimes more trails than engines? Talk to a pilot, who will tell you about fuel dump procedures (not nice to the environment, but necessary in emergencies)

What about all those images showing tanks in airplanes? Ask flight test engineers! Most of them are to simulate load scenarios while testing new aircraft. Very few of them are showing real chemical tanks of government aircraft. Bingo! But those are only few compared to the thousands of passenger aircraft that are in the air at any given moment.

Can you hide a chemicals tank in a passenger aircraft? Ask aviation engineers and maintenance personell (they will tell you no).

Can an airline afford the extra weight for chemicals tanks? Ask a financial planner at an airline (will tell you no, they are optimizing every single pound of weight).

Are all of the hundreds of thousands of people working in the world wide aviation industry part of giant conspiracy? Of course, because they can all keep a secret, even those in rouge countries ;-)

Are there chemicals in the standard jet fuel? Rent a small jet for a few thousand bucks, stick a pipette into the tank, do your analysis!

How many teeth has a horse? Find one and count them instead discussing theories in forums ;-)
End of quote
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::




Dear Builder,

wow, I am no aviation expert (and I don't like to take part in exercises of one-upmanship), but I live pretty close to a major international airport. And I have eyes to see and am willing to use them.

Today I was sitting on my porch enjoying life and looking at a fairly blue sky (haven't seen a really blue one in ages). I saw planes coming and going on a regular basis. They all had white trails behind them which all dissolved within minutes.
See, and that's the difference. I hadn't even heard about chemtrails until a couple of years ago, but one day on my way to work I saw the whole sky criss-crossed with trails and they did not just dissolve. The weirdest thing about that is that is was before sunrise when I set off from home and the airport is not allowed to start take-offs or landings before 6, so where had all those planes come from? At night? Criss-crossing their paths? I thought what the heck is going on.

And now I read from someone - who seems to consider himself some kind of an expert on aviation - claiming that all that chemtrail talk is just some kind of craze. Are you having a laugh? You of all people should have noticed this phenomenon long before someone like me.

Also, trying to side-track this discussion by coming up with these facts about commercial airlines which make it clear that it isn't them is, with all due respect, somewhat upsetting.
It's so obvious it isn't commercial planes and I believe most people know that anyway. So why even try to come up with that kind of argument?

If you were a brand-knew member I would suspect the worst.

I do not mean to insult you but please, do not try to make people like me look like fools because we are not.

Sorry if this comes across too strongly, but I do feel strongly about it. How can someone with eyes and a well-working brain not see?
And even worse, how can said someone try to ridicule people who can obviously see?

[Ewan]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'.

Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?

B.

This bank holiday weekend the weather was going to be clear and sunny with an expected change on tuesday (tomorrow). Saturday and Sunday passed with the most magnificent blue skies all day long. Regularly saw planes leaving contrails which dispersed quickly. Today, BH Monday, the persistant trails were back in force.

Such a huge difference between a passenger jet contrail and these persistent trails it beggars belief that people can deny seeing them.

[Ewan]

...so I think I know a thing or two about aviation.

My opinion so far:
Are government planes spraying chemicals? Yes!
Is the white stuff behind commercial airliners chemicals? No!

Why does it sometimes spread and sometimes disappear? Well talk to a meteorologist (there are very good explanations for every scenario with as much reproducible science experiments as you want)

Why are there sometimes more trails than engines? Talk to a pilot, who will tell you about fuel dump procedures (not nice to the environment, but necessary in emergencies)

What about all those images showing tanks in airplanes? Ask flight test engineers! Most of them are to simulate load scenarios while testing new aircraft. Very few of them are showing real chemical tanks of government aircraft. Bingo! But those are only few compared to the thousands of passenger aircraft that are in the air at any given moment.

Can you hide a chemicals tank in a passenger aircraft? Ask aviation engineers and maintenance personell (they will tell you no).

Can an airline afford the extra weight for chemicals tanks? Ask a financial planner at an airline (will tell you no, they are optimizing every single pound of weight).

Are all of the hundreds of thousands of people working in the world wide aviation industry part of giant conspiracy? Of course, because they can all keep a secret, even those in rouge countries ;-)

Are there chemicals in the standard jet fuel? Rent a small jet for a few thousand bucks, stick a pipette into the tank, do your analysis!

How many teeth has a horse? Find one and count them instead discussing theories in forums ;-)



Plenty of sensible stuff there. It's informed knowledge from pilots, maintenance engineers, fuel analysts, meteorologists - amateur or professional, aircraft loading personnel, etc. that is needed. But they never appear on here as they'd be abused and accused of being shills. Sometimes having people who really do know what they're talking about shines a light on the subject. But it rather goes against the grain on a conspiracy forum.

Like may conspiracies, they are mostly spread by those with no technical knowledge of what is or isn't possible. Weather modification is a real thing, but it's obvious to anyone who thinks about it that not all the stuff seen in the sky is sinister; far, far too many people would be involved in the production, transport and loading onto the aircraft...

Nick, it is NOT passenger planes laying persistent trails.

Everything builder mentions is regarding passenger jets and other regular craft. Except for one short sentence at the beginning [Are government planes spraying chemicals? Yes!] (Only they're not government planes.)
Incidentally, fuel dumps are of course a thing, but they don't go from horzon to horizon in a criss-cross pattern.

I'd suggest the only way this is being done is through some military/black ops scenario and those guys don't talk, (as a rule).

When you start to watch the sky you get an idea of the regular commercial flight patterns in your area. High elevation planes leaving a trail from one side of the sky to the other become very noticable.

[Hervé]

I see the trenches war hasn't moved much from way back when:


All right, here is an article taking up this issue from a totally different point of view and quite comprehensive.

I hope it may loosen up perspectives from possible entrenchments:

chemtrails-contrails-strange-skies (https://www.sott.net/article/221199-Chemtrails-Contrails-Strange-Skies)


Here is what my take is on the whole psyop and cover-up laced with plausible deniability as well as to explain this comment of mine:


[...]

I personally think that most of the visible "chemtrails" are a secondary phenomenon with the actual spraying taking place at higher altitudes with the aerosols being disturbed when reaching flight paths when falling down.

There was an article on this phenomenon but starting from cometary dust as seeds for "persisting" contrails by influencing the temperature of the upper atmosphere. My take is that a similar phenomenon is being used for the hiding of the actual spraying.

So that, on the previous threads debating this chemtrails vs. contrails with experienced pilots; it may actually be that both side of that debate were right.

There is no doubt as to what reaches the ground and there is no doubt that pilots are also sincere... therefore one may need to find out where the spraying actually takes place?

I think the answer could be found in the geoengineering patent office...

The idea stems from the proposal found in post # 7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658517&viewfull=1#post658517) above:


The report said that the US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the International Union of Astronomers." If one takes into account the existence of a "Breakaway civilization Space Command Fleet" which could actually conduct, unobserved, a spraying very high up in the upper atmosphere where no commercial jets can fly in the altitude range suggested for the copper needles, then, when that aluminum, barium, strontium mix slowly comes down to where commercial jets do fly; the mixture creates these seeded contrails which persist.

Commercial passenger flights are then blamed for the spraying of aerosols they have no clue how that would even be possible and therefore rightly consider whoever utter such nonsense as totally nuts.

See?

With this scenario, Fred259 is right in his analysis (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20503-Chemtrails-don-t-exist&highlight=Chemtrails+don%27t)... debunkers are right about the mixture of aluminum, barium, strontium found on the ground and rain water... yet all are wrong regarding the persisting contrails!

... since they are seeded contrails by aerosols coming down from way higher up than passenger jet flight's corridors.

That particular scenario would also greatly alter the physical properties of the upper atmosphere and therefore skew the interpretation given by Laura knight-Jadczyk although she is much closer to reality than anyone else as to what's happening to our skies.


QED





All perfectly normal.

Maybe not! :)


http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg



So, in summary, the "dust" seeding persistent contrails could be cometary, volcanic, geoengineered or even plain pollution; see this thread: Dust Particles Influence On The Weather (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101492-Dust-Particles-Influence-On-The-Weather)

What I am getting at with all the above is that persistent contrails are not necessarily "chemtrails" but a symptom of the effect of atmospheric dust coming down from way higher up than passenger jets routes and which can definitely be collected with rain coming down in all sorts of pans.

These persistent trails are also a symptom of a cooling of the earth's atmosphere in conjunction with a change in the solar cycles associated with the changing weather patterns (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92384-Weird-wild-weather-floods-freak-storms-giant-hail-record-lows-all-over-the-world&p=1223159&viewfull=1#post1223159) going from "normal" to "weird."

[Sunny-side-up]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

Hi Builder can I ask you a question.
You have experiences of Contrails, first hand, do many or any contrails that you have seen keep on spreading to form a total overcast haze?
or do they just fade away like steam?

[ExomatrixTV]

"Hidden In Plain Sight" ?! ... This is NOT a "Conspiracy Research Site" geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/ (http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/)

[Nick Matkin]

"HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT" ?! ... This is NOT a "Conspiracy Research Site" http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/

Interesting, but that's not evidence. It's just a description of the possible technology.


There is wide range of proposed geoengineering techniques...

What I want to know is, if they're not civilian aircraft (for obvious reasons) what are they? How many of them are there (presumably many thousands), who's flying and maintaining them, who's supplying the fuel, where is all the chemtrailing, material being manufactured, and by whom, and where are they all taking off and landing from? I live near two RAF/US airbases. I've never seen any aircraft other than military jets, the occasional Osprey, ad some noisy propeller aircraft (sorry, can't remember their name).

Europe is fairly tightly packed. 'Special' airfields are hard to hide, and such aircraft at civilian airports would stick out like a sore thumb to aviation enthusiasts, likewise if they used military airbases.

[Icare]

"HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT" ?! ... This is NOT a "Conspiracy Research Site" http://www.geoengineering.ox.ac.uk/what-is-geoengineering/what-is-geoengineering/

Interesting, but that's not evidence. It's just a description of the possible technology.


There is wide range of proposed geoengineering techniques...

What I want to know is, if they're not civilian aircraft (for obvious reasons) what are they? How many of them are there (presumably many thousands), who's flying and maintaining them, who's supplying the fuel, where is all the chemtrailing, material being manufactured, and by whom, and where are they all taking off and landing from? I live near two RAF/US airbases. I've never seen any aircraft other than military jets, the occasional Osprey, ad some noisy propeller aircraft (sorry, can't remember their name).

Europe is fairly tightly packed. 'Special' airfields are hard to hide, and such aircraft at civilian airports would stick out like a sore thumb to aviation enthusiasts, likewise if they used military airbases.


I have been asking myself the same question and a few other people,too, nobody knows. And there is nothing about it in the mainstream press.
When I saw the sky fiiled up complitely with a criss-cross design. a bit like a grid, before dawn, I wondered that again. It can only be from airports that the general public usually doesn't frequent much, such as military airbases., for example. We do have a few in my country.

You say you've never seen a plane other than the ones you mention, but I think especially in densely populated areas they don't do it during normal flight times, so you wouldn't necessarily have seen one.
And about sticking out like a sore thumb, you are right, of course, but I think those planes would be kept out of sight.

[DNA]

I’ve noticed a lot of brilliant doctors who are complete idiots about nutrition and vaccines.
My son and daughter’s brilliant PhD math professor believes the bullsh*t official story of the physics of 3 steel skyscrapers falling at freefall on 9/11 due to fires.
My father, one of the book-smartest people I’ve ever known, thinks Oswald was the lone assassin.
I could go on and on. We’ve all seen these people.
Point being , how amazingly intelligent you may be does NOT make you intelligent in all things, highly aware or immune from brainwashing. And...using one’s perceived brilliance in a debate instead of actual facts is quite funny.

How an expert aviator can somehow miss chemtrails and geoengineering is incredible...but common.
Excellent Post!
Very true and good points.

[Nick Matkin]

Well, I'm disappointed that no one has come up with any evidence to answer all of the questions in post #35.

And another thing; why isn't the spraying solely done were no one can see it, rather than over populated areas? The chemicals are supposed to circulate in the upper atmosphere to have an effect on the whole earth, so it could just as well be done unseen off the coast.

[Andre]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'. Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?B.

I was wondering the same thing because that is exactly what I have seen over the past few months on two occasions when we experienced two instances of massive spraying over two consequetive days followed by a complete "fogging" of the sky and then rain on day three. I make a point not to go outside on those rain days and suspect I may have caught a bout of chem flu anyway on at least one of those occasions!

I also had the same thought that they use the rain to improve the fallout rates. I'm sure some chemtrail observers would argue that the spraying is what creates the rain, rather the other way round, i.e. "piggy-backing" on the rain that is already forecast.

P.S. I have a real problem with the idea that the primary objective of Stratospheric Aerosol Spraying is weather modification because it makes no sense to spend time, money and vast resources to spray remote areas so that you can modify the weather. I have no doubt that they use SAS to modify the weather. I'm not suggesting they don't. But what I am saying is it's NOT the primary purpose of SAS. The more likely purpose is terra-forming or military communication ionisation and I think they are happy to support the conspiracy theory of weather modification to deflect from the real reasons. (Having said that, I am aware of their efforts to steer rain away from California over the last few years by manipulating the jet stream and that is verifiable from all the satellite image analysis that has been done).

[jc71]

I have one observation to report. I am very interested to know what the answer is to this phenomenon as I see a lot of this in the South East of England, and you can almost see what looks like some sort of aerosol effect as the trails spread and drift, and they often feel like they have reached quite close to the ground (hard to tell, but maybe they look like they are a few hundred metres up when you can almost see the "mist" particles drifting slowly).

My observation, and I must admit I haven't seen it for a year or so, but after a few dry days then a rainy day, I have seen a white "scum" (not sure if that is the right word!) in the rainwater on the roads - almost like the water had detergent in it. And you could see this right across the roads - not heavy, but noticeable - imaging having 1% washing up detergent in a bucket, agitating it a bit, then tipping it out - you would see a similar effect - an unmistakable "whiteness" in the water and even some persistent bubble just like detergent.

I have often thought when I see it, I would love to analyse that water. Maybe I will if I see it again.

Interesting thread, thanks. I can see both sides of the argument - I really can't see what the cause is, but at the same time it is very noticeable and annoying and I don't think I am imagining that this really did not happen when I was younger.

It would be satisfying to get a clear explanation for it, and I am not looking for the cause to be from a benign or a sinister source; just seeking the actual answer like most other people in the thread.

I will watch the thread with interest.

Thanks,

JC

[Hervé]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'. Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?B.

I was wondering the same thing because that is exactly what I have seen over the past few months on two occasions when we experienced two instances of massive spraying over two consequetive days followed by a complete "fogging" of the sky and then rain on day three. ...
[...]
Well done on the observations... :)

... that's called "meteorology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology)"... when a colder air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_front) (high pressure, dryer air) slowly takes over a warmer air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_front) (low pressure, moist air -- high hygrometric or humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics)) which also affects contrails from rapidly "evaporating" to becoming persistent due to the air mass becoming saturated with water vapor (humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity)).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Warm_front.svg/600px-Warm_front.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warm_front.svg)

Illustration of a warm front. The warm air behind the front is slowly overtaking the cold air ahead of the front, which is moving more slowly in the same direction. The warmer air, due to lower density, climbs over the colder air as it moves. As a result of its increased altitude, it cools off and its moisture condenses, forming clouds and possibly precipitation.

[conk]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

Let's suppose that 'chemtrails' are merely contrails. Would you not ask the question, "who wastes so much fuel flying back and forth and back and forth across the sky with seemingly no destination in mind"? Lots of us believe no one would do that. The airlines simply do not fly around in the sky creating gridlines that last for 6 hours or more. There aren't enough military planes doing it all over the world. So who is it? Why do it?

[Nick Matkin]

OK. I really think this two-minute video of military and civilian aircraft activity over the UK in one 24-hour period will explain an lot.

Please carefully read the captions as they come up, and note the odd military aircraft flight patterns.

Maybe our North American readers in particular can appreciate the vast number of flights over the UK. Is it any wonder our skies get obscured...?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8CQ29yWvZI

[conk]

Interesting Nick Matkin, but doesn't explain the inordinate air traffic over rural Alabama or over vast areas of desert.

[Hervé]

...

https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png (https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png)
flight routes density... (click to enlarge)

https://static.virginamerica.com/images/2013/misc/130220_routemap.png

https://i.stack.imgur.com/SVDMB.jpg

https://pt.stayaspensnowmass.com/sites/default/files/images/misc/eagle-flight-map.jpg


http://www.barnabu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/usa-air-routes-google-earth.JPG (http://www.barnabu.co.uk/google-earth-complete-us-air-routes/)

[Nick Matkin]

Interesting Nick Matkin, but doesn't explain the inordinate air traffic over rural Alabama or over vast areas of desert.

Think about it...

[Nick Matkin]

...

https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png (https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png)
flight routes density... (click to enlarge)




Excellent. Most people have no idea of the intensity of commercial, military and business air traffic. And I don't see why 'rural Alabama' shouldn't have aircraft criss-crossing overhead, going about their business!


Neither do many have even a basic grasp of meteorology or atmospheric physics...*

Edit: Yes, that does sound pompous! What I should have written perhaps is "...or how the atmosphere circulates and moves." My bad...

[Ewan]

...

https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png (https://openflights.org/demo/openflights-routedb-2048.png)
flight routes density... (click to enlarge)




Excellent. Most people have no idea of the intensity of commercial, military and business air traffic. And I don't see why 'rural Alabama' shouldn't have aircraft criss-crossing overhead, going about their business!


Neither do many have even a basic grasp of meteorology or atmospheric physics...


Do you have the faintest idea how arrogant and disparaging that sounds to a reader?

[Nick Matkin]

Neither do many have even a basic grasp of meteorology or atmospheric physics...


Do you have the faintest idea how arrogant and disparaging that sounds to a reader?

It wasn't intended to sound 'arrogant and disparaging'. However, it is my reflection on some of the content seen on this forum; it seems some (OK, maybe not 'many') readers do not have any idea of the basic physics of the world around them.

[Ewan]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'. Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?B.

I was wondering the same thing because that is exactly what I have seen over the past few months on two occasions when we experienced two instances of massive spraying over two consequetive days followed by a complete "fogging" of the sky and then rain on day three. ...
[...]
Well done on the observations... :)

... that's called "meteorology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology)"... when a colder air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_front) (high pressure, dryer air) slowly takes over a warmer air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_front) (low pressure, moist air -- high hygrometric or humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics)) which also affects contrails from rapidly "evaporating" to becoming persistent due to the air mass becoming saturated with water vapor (humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity)).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Warm_front.svg/600px-Warm_front.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warm_front.svg)

Illustration of a warm front. The warm air behind the front is slowly overtaking the cold air ahead of the front, which is moving more slowly in the same direction. The warmer air, due to lower density, climbs over the colder air as it moves. As a result of its increased altitude, it cools off and its moisture condenses, forming clouds and possibly precipitation.





Now that right there is why I get so angry with 'expert' opinion. They start from a position of 'knowing' - not a position of curiosity. Worse, they then decide they have to tell everyone else what it is they are seeing/misunderstanding.

An example might be :-

PersonA - Intelligent and educated, knows in their own mind that the subject of UFO's is akin to talking about fairies and goblins. Is considered an expert in somethingorother.

PersonB - Equally intelligent, not so well educated, has no letters after their name. Had an experience that defies description. Indeed, describing it is difficult because the entire experience was a Gestalt that language alone cannot encompass.

PersonA - Dismisses PersonB's account and proceeds to tell everyone else what actually happened. Swamp Gas.

If you are suggesting, Hervé, that what we are seeing is due to current solar/planetary changes, (Maunder Minimum and possible eccenticity of orbit due to gravitational influences), I cannot dismiss that as a possibilty, but I can seriously doubt it.

Being observant is one of my stronger traits. I'm not knowledgeable about meteorology or atmospheric physics beyond the most rudimentary. I used to know all the names for the clouds, but since they introduced a whole new raft of names recently to cover these new sky patterns I'm a bit out of touch with that. I have alway watched the skies since I was a little lad. I used to be fascinated by the clear delineation between atmospheric layers and watching the clouds scuttle by at different rates dependant on elevation. My bedroom window faced a setting sun and the airport was less than 3 miles away as the crow flies. Planes disappearing into the sunset or over the horizon were often watch long into the evening.

Unfortuantely the image host has disappeared from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74872-Undeniable-Footage-Of-Jet-Aircraft-Spraying-The-Midwest-Respiratory-Crisis----Infected-Chemtrail-Beta-Test&p=1110134&viewfull=1#post1110134) so you can no longer gaze in wonder at the magnificent art* I produced but you can still read my description.

I'd wager an awful lot of money that what I witnessed that day cannot be ascribed to any kind of atmospheric physics.

Edit:

* this was sarcasm. :)

[Hervé]

Well: To hell with it!

[Ewan]

Unexpected response. If I'm missing something perhaps elucidation would be more helpful?

--------------------------------

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?17730-Chemtrail-pilot-talks&p=194331&viewfull=1#post194331

Took me a little while to track down what this meant.





http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg

[Nick Matkin]

My personal observation is that the chemtrails are often (not always) administered just before rain (for a couple of days) is predicted. My guess is that the rainfall is instrumental in getting the "stuff" to the ground and into the system. Otherwise, it might drift away and be 'off target'. Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of rainfall and chemtrails?B.

I was wondering the same thing because that is exactly what I have seen over the past few months on two occasions when we experienced two instances of massive spraying over two consequetive days followed by a complete "fogging" of the sky and then rain on day three. ...
[...]
Well done on the observations... :)

... that's called "meteorology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology)"... when a colder air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_front) (high pressure, dryer air) slowly takes over a warmer air mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm_front) (low pressure, moist air -- high hygrometric or humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychrometrics)) which also affects contrails from rapidly "evaporating" to becoming persistent due to the air mass becoming saturated with water vapor (humidity index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity)).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Warm_front.svg/600px-Warm_front.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warm_front.svg)

Illustration of a warm front. The warm air behind the front is slowly overtaking the cold air ahead of the front, which is moving more slowly in the same direction. The warmer air, due to lower density, climbs over the colder air as it moves. As a result of its increased altitude, it cools off and its moisture condenses, forming clouds and possibly precipitation.





Now that right there is why I get so angry with 'expert' opinion. They start from a position of 'knowing' - not a position of curiosity. Worse, they then decide they have to tell everyone else what it is they are seeing/misunderstanding.

An example might be :-

PersonA - Intelligent and educated, knows in their own mind that the subject of UFO's is akin to talking about fairies and goblins. Is considered an expert in somethingorother.

PersonB - Equally intelligent, not so well educated, has no letters after their name. Had an experience that defies description. Indeed, describing it is difficult because the entire experience was a Gestalt that language alone cannot encompass.

PersonA - Dismisses PersonB's account and proceeds to tell everyone else what actually happened. Swamp Gas.

If you are suggesting, Hervé, that what we are seeing is due to current solar/planetary changes, (Maunder Minimum and possible eccenticity of orbit due to gravitational influences), I cannot dismiss that as a possibilty, but I can seriously doubt it.

Being observant is one of my stronger traits. I'm not knowledgeable about meteorology or atmospheric physics beyond the most rudimentary. I used to know all the names for the clouds, but since they introduced a whole new raft of names recently to cover these new sky patterns I'm a bit out of touch with that. I have alway watched the skies since I was a little lad. I used to be fascinated by the clear delineation between atmospheric layers and watching the clouds scuttle by at different rates dependant on elevation. My bedroom window faced a setting sun and the airport was less than 3 miles away as the crow flies. Planes disappearing into the sunset or over the horizon were often watch long into the evening.

Unfortuantely the image host has disappeared from this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74872-Undeniable-Footage-Of-Jet-Aircraft-Spraying-The-Midwest-Respiratory-Crisis----Infected-Chemtrail-Beta-Test&p=1110134&viewfull=1#post1110134) so you can no longer gaze in wonder at the magnificent art* I produced but you can still read my description.

I'd wager an awful lot of money that what I witnessed that day cannot be ascribed to any kind of atmospheric physics.

Edit:

* this was sarcasm. :)

@ Ewan: This is straying off topic, but you've given an interesting example.

Person B might be absolutely convinced that what they saw was a UFO. Maybe they photographed or videoed it. However, Person A sees it and recognises that it is probably one of the following: the ISS, the Sun/Moon/Venus though high cloud or ice crystals, a sun dog, a bollide, a short vapour train illuminated by the rising or setting sun, a lens flare.

There is nothing wrong with Person B being observant, curious and posting what they saw. But it's up to people like Person A to inhabit these forums and gently offer alternative explanations - ones which Person B will often never have heard of or considered.

We've seen this here in the past on this forum with post after post of photos of Nibiru for example. All lens flares or sun dogs - obviously unheard of by the sincere posters. Even Bill Ryan got exasperated when tying to give alternative explanations.

Sometimes 'experts' are really useful...

[Ewan]

@ Ewan: This is straying off topic, but you've given an interesting example.

Person B might be absolutely convinced that what they saw was a UFO. Maybe they photographed or videoed it. However, Person A sees it and recognises that it is probably one of the following: the ISS, the Sun/Moon/Venus though high cloud or ice crystals, a sun dog, a bollide, a short vapour train illuminated by the rising or setting sun, a lens flare.

There is nothing wrong with Person B being observant, curious and posting what they saw. But it's up to people like Person A to inhabit these forums and gently offer alternative explanations - ones which Person B will often never have heard of or considered.

We've seen this here in the past on this forum with post after post of photos of Nibiru for example. All lens flares or sun dogs - obviously unheard of by the sincere posters. Even Bill Ryan got exasperated when tying to give alternative explanations. (I got exasperated right along with him Nick.)

Sometimes 'experts' are really useful...

Agree with all you said if PersonA did see the same thing, though the example I give was that they didn't see it but offered an explanation anyway.

If I was observant from just a boy then I might be expected to recognise a difference in the skies, noting, for instance, that they never looked like that before.

Cold fronts and warming air have existed since the current atmosphere formed so that cannot be the only explanation for this new phenomenon.
Perhaps other changes such as the Maunder Minimum or gravitational pull from Jupiter do indeed change the behaviour of the atmosphere?

I just don't know - but I do know that what I witnessed in the post I mentioned was highly unusual and not at all natural.

You may recall this post re: the behaviour of light where I took on the role of, not an expert, but of providing an explanation from my own knowledge.

So far no-one has provided an explanation, as you've so often pointed out - though from a different angle. Perhaps we should all just admit we don't know?

:handshake:

[Builder]

One point that I forgot in my little rant were military contrails:

1. While you could argue that the big bombers are deploying chemical weapons, why are they also doing it over their home country? And why would they undermine their own survivability by revealing their flight path visible for hundreds of miles?

2. Why would fighter planes reduce their speed and agility by carrying and deploying chemical weapons? And again why make yourself visible to the enemy and also spray the country you are defending? Even the in comparison faint dark exhaust gases from old, dirty burning jet engines used for example by the F-4 Phantom or Mig 29 are considered a disadvantage in arial battle, because they are giving away the position and direction of the jet.

If you google dogfight contrails you can find enough examples going back to WW2.

[Hervé]

From the "Dust" and "Meteorology" de-compartmentalized departments (Posted by Hervé (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1204344#post1204344) ) :

Incredible image captured by a Nasa satellite reveals the criss-cross patterns that ships leave in the CLOUDS (https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/incredible-image-captured-nasa-satellite-11907268?unique_ID=636526656010037314)

By Shivali Best The Mirror (https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/incredible-image-captured-nasa-satellite-11907268?unique_ID=636526656010037314), News (https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/)

14:15, 24 JAN 2018
Updated16:46, 24 JAN 2018


https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11907276.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/atlantic_amo_2018016_lrg.jpg
The stunning image reveals the impact that ships passing through the Atlantic Ocean have on the clouds above (Image: NASA/Jeff Schmaltz, LANCE/EOSDIS Rapid Response). The image was taken by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer on board Nasa’s Aqua satellite

A stunning image captured by a Nasa (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/nasa) satellite (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/space) reveals the impact that ships passing through the Atlantic Ocean have on the clouds above.

The image shows a patchwork of bright, criss-crossing cloud trails off the coast of Portugal and Spain, known as ship tracks.

Ship tracks form when water vapour condenses around tiny particles of pollution (https://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/pollution) that ships emit as exhausts.

These incredible clouds typically form in areas where low-lying stratus and cumulus clouds are present.

In a blog (https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/signs-of-ships-in-the-clouds) about the image, a spokesperson for Nasa said:
“Some of the pollution particles generated by ships (especially sulfates) are soluble in water and serve as the seeds around which cloud droplets form.

“Clouds infused with ship exhaust have more and smaller droplets than unpolluted clouds.

“As a result, the light hitting the polluted clouds scatters in many directions, making them appear brighter and thicker than unpolluted marine clouds, which are typically seeded by larger, naturally occurring particles such as sea salt.”
The image was taken by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer on board Nasa’s Aqua satellite on January 16 [2018].

While the ship tracks may not look too long in the image, in reality, some stretch hundreds of kilometres from end to end.

The narrow ends of the clouds are youngest, while the broader, wavier ends are older.

=====================================================

The above gives an inkling as to what happens when volcanic ashes and an increasing amount of meteoritic/cometary dust settle down... which may be the omitted, generating factor for persistent contrails; beside pollution.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Multiple industries are involved. Different yet occasionally overlapping agendas. Control of crops is a newer part of it (anyone with enough $ gets to play)but it really started as a way to track cloaked craft over a specific area. Particulates for that (unlike for agri-biz) are designed to be atmospherically buoyant. Take it with a grain of salt as always

[Nick Matkin]

Multiple industries are involved. Different yet occasionally overlapping agendas.

Which ones?


Control of crops is a newer part of it (anyone with enough $ gets to play)but it really started as a way to track cloaked craft over a specific area. Particulates for that (unlike for agri-biz) are designed to be atmospherically buoyant.

Which crops, where? Solid particles 'atmospherically buoyant' - examples?


Take it with a grain of salt as always

Ahhh. I see, I think.

[lloyds]

on what planet is aluminum magnetic? am I missing something here?

[Nick Matkin]

on what planet is aluminum magnetic? am I missing something here?

Planet paranoia, where the inhabitants don't know how to asses proof, data, evidence or more worryingly anything about science and how it works.

Oh, BTW, this Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6040173/Blocking-sunlight-cool-Earth-NOT-work-New-study-dismisses-solar-geoengineering.html?login) (!) article is being hawked around as chemtrailing proof, which when read by a sane person shows nothing of the sort.

(Now standing back and waiting for the angry responses to my obvious ignorance and/or indoctrination by TPTB. )

[Andre]

Planet paranoia, where the inhabitants don't know how to asses proof, data, evidence or more worryingly anything about science and how it works. Oh, BTW, this Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6040173/Blocking-sunlight-cool-Earth-NOT-work-New-study-dismisses-solar-geoengineering.html?login) (!) article is being hawked around as chemtrailing proof, which when read by a sane person shows nothing of the sort. (Now standing back and waiting for the angry responses to my obvious ignorance and/or indoctrination by TPTB. )

That Daily Mail article has nothing to do with current stratospheric aerosol spraying. Very few researchers who take chemtrails seriously would bother referring to something from the "Daily Mail' and I suspect that the folks who use this article as proof are not very knowledgeable.

[Hervé]

I see the trenches war hasn't moved much from way back when:


All right, here is an article taking up this issue from a totally different point of view and quite comprehensive.

I hope it may loosen up perspectives from possible entrenchments:

chemtrails-contrails-strange-skies (https://www.sott.net/article/221199-Chemtrails-Contrails-Strange-Skies)


Here is what my take is on the whole psyop and cover-up laced with plausible deniability as well as to explain this comment of mine:


[...]

I personally think that most of the visible "chemtrails" are a secondary phenomenon with the actual spraying taking place at higher altitudes with the aerosols being disturbed when reaching flight paths when falling down.

There was an article on this phenomenon but starting from cometary dust as seeds for "persisting" contrails by influencing the temperature of the upper atmosphere. My take is that a similar phenomenon is being used for the hiding of the actual spraying.

So that, on the previous threads debating this chemtrails vs. contrails with experienced pilots; it may actually be that both side of that debate were right.

There is no doubt as to what reaches the ground and there is no doubt that pilots are also sincere... therefore one may need to find out where the spraying actually takes place?

I think the answer could be found in the geoengineering patent office...

The idea stems from the proposal found in post # 7 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?57696-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-A-geoengineering-explanation-for-chemtrails&p=658517&viewfull=1#post658517) above:


The report said that the US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the International Union of Astronomers." If one takes into account the existence of a "Breakaway civilization Space Command Fleet" which could actually conduct, unobserved, a spraying very high up in the upper atmosphere where no commercial jets can fly in the altitude range suggested for the copper needles, then, when that aluminum, barium, strontium mix slowly comes down to where commercial jets do fly; the mixture creates these seeded contrails which persist.

Commercial passenger flights are then blamed for the spraying of aerosols they have no clue how that would even be possible and therefore rightly consider whoever utter such nonsense as totally nuts.

See?

With this scenario, Fred259 is right in his analysis (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20503-Chemtrails-don-t-exist&highlight=Chemtrails+don%27t)... debunkers are right about the mixture of aluminum, barium, strontium found on the ground and rain water... yet all are wrong regarding the persisting contrails!

... since they are seeded contrails by aerosols coming down from way higher up than passenger jet flight's corridors.

That particular scenario would also greatly alter the physical properties of the upper atmosphere and therefore skew the interpretation given by Laura knight-Jadczyk although she is much closer to reality than anyone else as to what's happening to our skies.


QED





All perfectly normal.

Maybe not! :)


http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg



So, in summary, the "dust" seeding persistent contrails could be cometary, volcanic, geoengineered or even plain pollution; see this thread: Dust Particles Influence On The Weather (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101492-Dust-Particles-Influence-On-The-Weather)

What I am getting at with all the above is that persistent contrails are not necessarily "chemtrails" but a symptom of the effect of atmospheric dust coming down from way higher up than passenger jets routes and which can definitely be collected with rain coming down in all sorts of pans.

These persistent trails are also a symptom of a cooling of the earth's atmosphere in conjunction with a change in the solar cycles associated with the changing weather patterns (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92384-Weird-wild-weather-floods-freak-storms-giant-hail-record-lows-all-over-the-world&p=1223159&viewfull=1#post1223159) going from "normal" to "weird."
Well, well, well... there's a new kid on the block... the "Electric Universe" and its application to "Meteorology" by understanding the connection between "Charged Particles" and "Weather" a little bit better:


KnwAUVNhU0s

PS: Thanks to Paul for posting (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90378-The-Earth-s-Magnetic-Field-Did-Not-Collapse-This-Week&p=1242095&viewfull=1#post1242095) the above video :) which provides answers to all sorts of questions.

[conk]

How can anyone doubt the reality of chemtrails? This site contains posts with patents for the spraying devices. Chemical trails and the technology is referenced in the Congressional Record. Respected individuals have tested samples on heavy spray days and concluded they contain elements or compounds that absolutely should not drift down upon us.

Does anyone really believe that someone is paying the fuel bill for planes that fly back and forth multiple times, often for hours a day? Planes with seemingly no destination in mind? Their objective only to create a pretty grid in the sky? We should challenge any meteorologist to explain how any contrail could last 6 hours and drift across a large section of the sky before finally dissipating. Maybe the conditions would sometimes allow contrails to remain for lengthy periods, but only rarely and certainly not every day as often witnessed. Very often a clear sky at 8:00 am is completely covered by these chemical trails by noon and no, they are not clouds.

And perhaps an anthropologist or anatomy expert can explain how someone's skull could be so thick!

[Hervé]

Mystery in the mesosphere: Noctilucent clouds TRIPLE compared to last August (http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=147310&PHPSESSID=vq5bqnva8a4k7pqf90kgad8vl6)

Spaceweather.com (http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=147310&PHPSESSID=vq5bqnva8a4k7pqf90kgad8vl6)
Thu, 16 Aug 2018 04:06 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483432/large/Paul_Knightley_image_153436790.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483432/full/Paul_Knightley_image_153436790.jpg)
NLCs on August 14, 2018 @ Hamnoy, Norway. © Paul Knightley


Anthony Watts Watts Up with That (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/15/strange-events-earths-upper-atmosphere-creating-glowing-clouds/?cn-reloaded=1)
Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:50 UTC

Via NASA: extra water vapor in the mesosphere (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/15/strange-events-earths-upper-atmosphere-creating-glowing-clouds/?cn-reloaded=1) is creating more glowing nighttime clouds

This summer, something strange has been happening in the mesosphere. The mesosphere is a layer of the atmosphere so high that it almost touches space. In the rarefied air 83 km above Earth's surface, summertime wisps of water vapor wrap themselves around specks of meteor smoke. The resulting swarms of ice crystals form noctilucent clouds (NLCs), which can be seen glowing in the night sky at high latitudes.

And, no, that's not the strange thing.

Northern sky watchers have grown accustomed to seeing these clouds in recent years. They form in May, intensify in June, and ultimately fade in July and August. This year, however, something different happened. Instead of fading in late July, the clouds exploded with unusual luminosity. Kairo Kiitsak observed this outburst on July 26th from Simuna, Estonia:


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483585/full/noctilucent_clouds_Kairo_Kiits.jpg
Taken by Kairo Kiitsak on July 26, 2018 @ Simuna, Estonia. © Kairo Kiitsak


"It was a mind-blowing display," says Kiitsak.

"The clouds were visible for much of the night, rippling brightly for at least 3 hours."
Other observers saw similar displays in July and then, in August, the clouds persisted. During the first half of August 2018, reports of NLCs to Spaceweather.com have tripled compared to the same period in 2017. The clouds refuse to go away.

Researchers at the University of Colorado may have figured out why.
"There has been an unexpected surge of water vapor in the mesosphere," says Lynn Harvey of Colorado's Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics (LASP).
This plot, which Harvey prepared using data from NASA's satellite-based Microwave Limb Sounder (MLS (https://mls.jpl.nasa.gov/)) instrument, shows that the days of late July and August 2018 have been the wettest in the mesosphere for the past 11 years:


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483431/large/mls2_strip.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483431/full/mls2_strip.jpg)


"July went out like a lion!" says Harvey.
In addition to being extra wet, the mesosphere has also been a bit colder than usual, according to MLS data. The combination of wet and cold has created favorable conditions for icy noctilucent clouds.

Harvey and her colleagues are still working to understand how the extra water got up there. One possibility involves planetary wave activity (https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-16-0231.1) in the southern hemisphere which can, ironically, boost the upwelling of water vapor tens of thousands of miles away in the north. The phenomenon could also be linked to solar minimum, now underway. It is notable that the coldest and wettest years in the mesosphere prior to 2018 were 2008-2009-the previous minimum of the 11-year solar cycle.


SOTT Comment (https://www.sott.net/article/393600-Mystery-in-the-mesosphere-Noctilucent-clouds-TRIPLE-compared-to-last-August):
(https://www.sott.net/article/392167-Late-season-surge-in-Noctilucent-Clouds-produces-stunning-displays)
Late-season surge in Noctilucent Clouds produces stunning displays (https://www.sott.net/article/392167-Late-season-surge-in-Noctilucent-Clouds-produces-stunning-displays)
In 2017 a heat wave in the mesosphere (https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2017/06/15/mystery-of-the-missing-noctilucent-clouds/) melted those crystals, causing a brief "noctilucent blackout." Could something similar, but opposite, be happening now? Perhaps a cold spell in the mesosphere is extending the season. In July an English astronomer reported (https://www.sott.net/article/391334-English-astronomer-reports-photographing-more-noctilucent-clouds-in-past-six-weeks-than-last-three-years) photographing more noctilucent clouds in six weeks than in the last three years.

See also: Are noctilucent clouds increasing because of the cooling climate, and the rise of fireball and volcanic activity? (https://www.sott.net/article/390338-Are-noctilucent-clouds-increasing-because-of-the-cooling-climate-and-the-rise-of-fireball-and-volcanic-activity)


https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483437/large/earth_atmosphere_layers_720x58.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s24/483437/full/earth_atmosphere_layers_720x58.jpg)


With the rise in rare and unexplained phenomena in our skies, clearly something is changing in our atmosphere:

Changing atmosphere: Red sprites and a blue jet seen above Europe's stormy skies (https://www.sott.net/article/387939-Changing-atmosphere-Red-sprites-and-a-blue-jet-seen-above-Europes-stormy-skies)



Rare green flash sunset photographed flickering into even rarer blue in Norway (https://www.sott.net/article/384282-Rare-green-flash-sunset-photographed-flickering-into-even-rarer-blue)



Strange skies: Red Sprites in Oklahoma, aurora Steve in Canada, iridescent clouds in Illinois and noctilucent clouds in Denmark (https://www.sott.net/article/387232-Strange-skies-Red-Sprites-in-Oklahoma-aurora-Steve-in-Canada-iridescent-clouds-in-Illinois-and-noctilucent-clouds-in-Denmark)



Elusive anti-solar arc captured on film during take off in Sweden (https://www.sott.net/article/386380-Elusive-anti-solar-arc-captured-on-film-during-take-off-in-Sweden)



Sunlight drips through clouds and strange arc of dotted light spotted in sky at Missouri River (PHOTOS) (https://www.sott.net/article/369445-Sunlight-drips-through-clouds-and-strange-arc-of-dotted-light-spotted-in-sky-at-Missouri-River-PHOTOS)



Stunning iridescent cloud captured over Ribeirao Claro, Brazil (VIDEO) (https://www.sott.net/article/376013-Stunning-iridescent-cloud-captured-over-Brazil-VIDEO)



Related:
Dust Particles Influence On The Weather AND Earth's Climate (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101492-Dust-Particles-Influence-On-The-Weather-AND-Earth-s-Climate)

Chemtrails? Contrails? Strange Skies (https://www.sott.net/article/221199-Chemtrails-Contrails-Strange-Skies#)

[Valerie Villars]

The photos and videos on the links provided were stunning.

[Bubu]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

The problem with your engineering knowledge is it comes from books or shall I say formal miseducation.

[Builder]

The problem with your engineering knowledge is it comes from books or shall I say formal miseducation.

LOL, the prejudgement is strong in this thread ;-) (maybe also from my side)

Nope, I am quite the opposite of what you describe. I had a quit interesting carrier including aerospace engineering without any relevant formal education. Just through curiosity and experience.

The point I wanted to make is that most chemtrail theorists may have a lot of curiosity, but zero experience in the relevant fields of aviation, engineering and physics. My prejudgement is that their "education" comes from conspiracy websites and forums, which are echo chambers of more people without any real world aviation experience.

Of course I have also researched chemtrail conspiracies, but I could not match it up with what I experienced in the aviation and engineering world. Since I perceive those areas as my core competency, I have some strong opinions around that.

Just wanted to put that out as counter point to think about: You can believe the experts in the conspiracy THEORY, or the people who deal in the real world with what the theory is about. And yes, of course the later ones may be blinded by, or be part of the conspiracy.

[Nick Matkin]

[...]
The point I wanted to make is that most chemtrail theorists may have a lot of curiosity, but zero experience in the relevant fields of aviation, engineering and physics. My prejudgement is that their "education" comes from conspiracy websites and forums, which are echo chambers of more people without any real world aviation experience.
[...]


Exactly. Most have no basic understanding of meteorology, aviation economics, aircraft design or maintenance. The scale of the manufacturing and transportation of all this material, with never an accident or anyone knowing anything about it or knowing anyone involved, is ever explained. If military or 'special aircraft' are involved, where are they all taking off from and landing? Who is maintaining them?

In any case - why do all this over populated areas? It would be just as effective when sprayed into the atmosphere anywhere.

If it's chemicals in 'chemtrails' that people want to believe in, how come after some days of 'intense chemtrailing' we're not brushing it off our cars and having it analysed?

I suspect there is a confusion with genuine weather-control experiments and a massive conspiracy that some people just love to embrace regardless of hard evidence.

Answers please...

[rick]

Coming from an aviation family and being an engineer with enough knowledge to understand how contrails form, it's hard to believe the chemtrail craze. But bring on the scientific experiments and prove me wrong!

For a balanced view it may also be a good idea to spend similar time and effort studying the basics of physics and engineering that would be responsible for contrails and chemtrails.

I thought the same a few year back. I build turbojet engines for RC models.

There is no doubt something is IN THE JET FUEL that causes all this sky diarrhea. I was washing our car as I watched the planes fly in a row, back and fourth, north to south, over Tucson yesterday. And it WOULD have been a clear day... I watched with my own eyes as these contrails grew from streaks, to a blanket over the entire sky...

OHH they are doing it, and it makes me sick. And its SO easy for them! Just add it to the jet fuel, and feed that fuel here and there as required. NO special "spray planes" needed. Fuel laced with whatever crap that pyrolizes at combustion temps.

Trace the fuel, and you will find who is doing this.

[Builder]

There is no doubt something is IN THE JET FUEL that causes all this sky diarrhea.

Easy to test: charter a jet and take a fuel sample. Not cheap, but shouldn't uncovering such a big worldwide conspiracy be worth spending a few thousand bucks for somone out of the 8 billion people living on earth?

[Nick Matkin]

Well I expect those of you living or working near busy airports will have to sweep the fallen residue off your car windscreens most days...

[Dennis Leahy]

I actually do not blame those that insist that all the stripes in the sky are just normal condensate from a jet. I have had a very difficult time with this. I'll tell you why:

For me, the problem started out with people early on theorizing that the Ruling Monsters were poisoning us, via the sky. This made no sense to me at all - even vicious sociopaths protect their own precious children-property-progeny and grandchildren-property-progeny, and could not possibly keep this sky poison from damaging their precious ones, and so nope, it made no sense to me. (I figure, when the psychopaths decide to snuff us "lesser life forms" in genocidal proportion, they will uses viruses they made and have the antidote for. But, I digress...)

I didn't believe in chemtrails because I didn't believe the premise that malevolent elite rulers would poison their own - really, and themselves - along with us.

I had to stop - postpone - the questions: who, and why, and focus on what. What am I witnessing? I'm nearly 65 and was outdoors constantly as a kid. Like member 'forest denizen' here in a post on another subject, I too was a kid with the field guides... and my dad gave us the gift of the Encyclopedia Britannica and encouraged his kids to wonder, and to then "look it up", do some research. You know, 'Nimbus', pg 217, 'Cumulonimbus', pg 220... I have always paid attention to the sky.

There was NOTHING like this in the sky before about 20 years ago. My skyviewing is not limited to rural bumpkin skies - I have lived in and near big cities with some of the largest airports in the world, such as Chicago and Denver and San Diego and Los Angeles. There was NOTHING in the skies like there is now, with jet trails that persist for hours. Never. Not once.

Sticking with "what", still temporarily ignoring the who and why questions... So, it started infrequently about 20 years ago, and maybe by 10 years ago had become so common as to be nearly daily.

Possibilities:

a.) I'm just a well-meaning idiot with a crap memory and a conspiratorial mindset. There used to be a lot less air traffic, and so my memory is faulty and there have been persistent trails from jets as long as there have been jets - and since I didn't notice them, I erroneously 'remember' the skies before chemtrails.

b.) The fuel changed. Simple as that. Something has been added to jet fuel that somehow makes ice crystals last for hours rather than seconds. No conspiracy, just an additive. Or, maybe not an additive, but rather some sort of shortcut in the refining process, from political deregulation, where the jet fuel now has impurities that used to be filtered out... and the impurities are what is making the "persistent trails."

c.) The Bob Ross Effect. Similar to the 'Mandela Effect', but with the inclusion of happy, fluffy little clouds.

d.) Earth's atmosphere has changed in such a way that jet contrails now frequently become persistent. This could be anything from solar wind particles to the composition of the gasses to the thinning or thickening of an atmospheric 'layer' - who knows? But some conditions have changed to make mundane contrails appear to be persistent for hours rather than seconds.

e.) There has been a timeline shift... or some such sci-fi explanation for why some trails now last for hours but before 20 years ago, they all lasted for seconds.

f.) Someone (unknown) is spraying something (that evidently includes aluminum) and Monsanto patented seeds that could withstand aluminum toxicity and numerous patents were issued for aerial spraying and for weather modification. The spraying continues, for reason(s) unknown to the public.

I don't think option "a" is correct, and I think it would be really easy to find video tape and film footage from the 1970s and 1980s to show that my memory is correct.

I think "b" is wrong because I have witnessed trails that sputter - start and stop - in the sky, in the winter, in Duluth, MN. If it is the fuel, it should always happen. I have also seen skies with both normal jets with normal contrails and chemtrails, simultaneously, in winter. Again, that makes no sense in winter, where every layer of air from the surface of Duluth to outer space is freezing cold - below the temperature for ice to form. There are no warm air pockets above Duluth, MN in the winter.

"c" is silly.

The premise in "d", (that Earth's atmosphere may be different now) could be true, and is certainly somewhat true, as the atmosphere is anything but static. But if true to the point where so many trails are visible now, then the trails would always show up - and they don't.

Option "e", well, I like to use Occam's Razor and steer toward the most likely explanation first.

If you just go outside and watch, just observe, you'll see trails coming from jets that last for hours, and if you've been an observer for a long time or research through footage (other than air shows, where trails may have been deliberately made) before about 20 years ago, you won't find trails that persist for hours. The laws of physics haven't changed, but the length of persistence of some jet trails is now a thousand times longer than 20 years ago.

Once you have done this due diligence, you'll realize that this is real. Until then, the questions of who and why are sure to provide emotional barriers that only logic can break down. Are there now trails that last a thousand times longer that jet trails did 20 years ago? Yes or no? That's really the question you have to answer first, and you can answer it for yourself by observation. You have seen normal contrails in a winter sky last from 10 to 30 seconds, then disappear, so you are familiar with normal contrails and even understand how the ice crystals form and dissipate (even in winter) within seconds. Now, you are also witnessing another phenomenon, a different one, one where trails from jets last for hours in the sky, quite literally a thousand times longer than your understanding of the ice crystals evaporating, usually within 10 to 30 seconds after leaving a jet engine.

Observe, and describe what are you witnessing, with no conjecture about who and why.

[Nick Matkin]

A thoughtful post Dennis. Thank you.

No one's asked for my opinion, but I'll give it anyway. ;)

Aviation fuel is carefully monitored from refinement to delivery. Where are the 'contaminants' being added?

Considering the vast amounts of contaminants required to make all these trails, where are they being manufactured, by whom and with what?

How can you add a contaminant to aviation fuel without it leaving either residue or other evidence in the engines? These are frequently checked by engineers - many who have worked in the industry for decades. Have they all been told to turn a blind eye to any evidence they may find? How about interviewing a selection of these guys for their opinions?

The quantities some days appear to be so significant one would expect to be brushing it off our vehicles. Or at least to easily be enough lying around to be sent to multiple independent labs all over the world for analysis. I dare say even a decent school lab could do a basic analysis these days. If this has been done, where and when? If not why not?

How about getting amateur aviation experts and amateur meteorologists together for their thoughts? (I suggest 'amateur' in case anyone suspects the professionals of having been knobbled!) Surely this forum has a few members qualified in both those disciplines? It would really help if they came forward and supplied some informed opinion.

I suspect (but obviously don't know) that real small-scale geoengineering/weather experiments are being conflated in a climate of general distrust of almost anything new, and generate yet another developing conspiracy by those so predisposed.

[Hervé]

[...]
I think "b" is wrong because I have witnessed trails that sputter - start and stop - in the sky, in the winter, in Duluth, MN. If it is the fuel, it should always happen. I have also seen skies with both normal jets with normal contrails and chemtrails, simultaneously, in winter....

[...]
Hi Denis, here is one to "meditate" on:


https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Spectacular-Rolling-Clouds-2.jpg
Image: Facebook/Virgin Australia (https://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/photos/pcb.10154070732356990/10154070731841990/?type=3&theater)



Fly parallel to this meteorological interface and you can get both regular contrails and persisting contrails...

Fly perpendicular to it at that interface altitude and you get a very precise "sputtering"...

Interfaces between meteorological systems are not planar/flat but wavy (often confused with "HAARP clouds" formations).



https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Stunning-Clouds-near-Australia-1-640x640.jpg (https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Stunning-Clouds-near-Australia-1.jpg)
Clouds (https://wordlesstech.com/tag/Cloud/)appear to be streaming out from a cold front, indicated by the dark blue line, near Australia.


[...]

While observing yet more Chem-trails I wondered why one thick one had sudden gaps init? Did the plane (Craft) suddenly stop spraying or change tanks or was it an atmospheric change!

[...]

Imagine the X axis as being a plane flight path and the sine wave the trace in a vertical cross-section of the corrugated (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Corrugated_iron_manual_roller.JPG/1024px-Corrugated_iron_manual_roller.JPG) interface between hot, moist [air] and cold, dry air sub-horizontal layers:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Sine.svg/590px-Sine.svg.png


There is your "intermittent" trail... and cloud formations; usually in a wavy pattern [interface].





As for the contrails, I think it's ice crystals turned into water vapor through the jet turbines disappearing again into ice crystal after a while... what's happening now with persistent contrails is that the water vapor gets "seeded" into water droplets and does not turn back into ice crystals.


See (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102647-Controversial-but-Simple-Experiment-Exposing-Chemtrails-Everyone-Can-Do-&p=1242140&viewfull=1#post1242140):


KnwAUVNhU0s

[DNA]

Here is an experiment showing the reaction that takes place between Aluminum and Mercury.

In my opinion this experiment is quite amazing, we see a very fast reaction taking place where hairs of aluminum oxide are formed.

This in my opinion is very reminiscent of the hairs reported in Morgellan's Disease.

So if you take the aluminum we see being distributed as an aerosol over the skies and the Mercury that is being injected into folks with their vaccines we see how something like this could take place inside of people.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrdYueB9pY4

[DNA]

All perfectly normal.

Maybe not! :)


http://circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpghttp://projectavalon.net/circular_chemtrail_aircraft.jpg


Indeed, I know Bill is not the biggest Crow777 fan, but regardless of some of the interpretations he has for his work, he has come up with some absolute fantastic footage with his amateur telescope photography which I'm of the opinion is professional except that he gives his footage for free with no expectation of pay.



In this video we see small metallic orb structures firing what appear to be energy shots into the chemtrail.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4byMQIk_iGQ&t=122s


In the video below another strange anomaly in regards to chemtrails.

Crrow seems to hint that the plane leaving this chemtrail is actually a halogram on top of another type of aerial vehicle.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1EU7IaMM_k&list=PLLRW7r8RLSgL3QF66voBZx4ldEIYiAsz9


And lastly in the video below Crrow shows more orb footage in regards to chemtrails.

Just FYI Crrow says he sees orbs in the company of chemtrails quite frequently.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_ukE5rLrhQ

[Nick Matkin]

This in my opinion is very reminiscent of the hairs reported in Morgellan's Disease.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrdYueB9pY4

So is this:

https://www.annforfungi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/hair-ice-010-600x450.jpg

...which is harmless hair ice if no one recognised it. See https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150722091530.htm

[Delight]

Bumping this video.....


Here is an experiment showing the reaction that takes place between Aluminum and Mercury.

In my opinion this experiment is quite amazing, we see a very fast reaction taking place where hairs of aluminum oxide are formed.

This in my opinion is very reminiscent of the hairs reported in Morgellan's Disease.

So if you take the aluminum we see being distributed as an aerosol over the skies and the Mercury that is being injected into folks with their vaccines we see how something like this could take place inside of people.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrdYueB9pY4

[Dennis Leahy]

[...]
I think "b" is wrong because I have witnessed trails that sputter - start and stop - in the sky, in the winter, in Duluth, MN. If it is the fuel, it should always happen. I have also seen skies with both normal jets with normal contrails and chemtrails, simultaneously, in winter....

[...]
Hi Denis, here is one to "meditate" on:


https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Spectacular-Rolling-Clouds-2.jpg
Image: Facebook/Virgin Australia (https://www.facebook.com/virginaustralia/photos/pcb.10154070732356990/10154070731841990/?type=3&theater)



Fly parallel to this meteorological interface and you can get both regular contrails and persisting contrails...

Fly perpendicular to it at that interface altitude and you get a very precise "sputtering"...

Interfaces between meteorological systems are not planar/flat but wavy (often confused with "HAARP clouds" formations).



https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Stunning-Clouds-near-Australia-1-640x640.jpg (https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Stunning-Clouds-near-Australia-1.jpg)
Clouds (https://wordlesstech.com/tag/Cloud/)appear to be streaming out from a cold front, indicated by the dark blue line, near Australia.


[...]

While observing yet more Chem-trails I wondered why one thick one had sudden gaps init? Did the plane (Craft) suddenly stop spraying or change tanks or was it an atmospheric change!

[...]

Imagine the X axis as being a plane flight path and the sine wave the trace in a vertical cross-section of the corrugated (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Corrugated_iron_manual_roller.JPG/1024px-Corrugated_iron_manual_roller.JPG) interface between hot, moist [air] and cold, dry air sub-horizontal layers:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Sine.svg/590px-Sine.svg.png


There is your "intermittent" trail... and cloud formations; usually in a wavy pattern [interface].





As for the contrails, I think it's ice crystals turned into water vapor through the jet turbines disappearing again into ice crystal after a while... what's happening now with persistent contrails is that the water vapor gets "seeded" into water droplets and does not turn back into ice crystals.


See (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102647-Controversial-but-Simple-Experiment-Exposing-Chemtrails-Everyone-Can-Do-&p=1242140&viewfull=1#post1242140):


KnwAUVNhU0s


I sure wish that Hervé had returned to Avalon, as I want to argue a point he made, and hate to do it in abstentia.

Naturally formed, warm-cool-warm-cool zones are Hervé's explanation for chemtrails that are intermittent.

I disagree.

I had the opportunity to fly to and from Hawaii from the US mainland semi-recently, and the sophisticated huge jets (777, 787) had mounted monitors all over the plane, for announcements and such. When there were no announcements, there was a graphic showing a "map" with the plane en route... and the outside temperature.

It was summer, and I was flying over the Pacific Ocean. The entire flight, when we were flying at altitude, showed the outside temperature to 'range' between -55°F and -58°F. Think about that for a minute. I thought about Herve's suggestion that "contrails" ice crystals stop forming when the plane goes through warmer air. It would not just need to be "warmer" air, but above 32F.

There was no warmer air, in that summertime sky over the Pacific, at 35000 feet, and sure as hell no air pockets that were 85°F warmer than the -55°F outside warmest temperature!

As the plane finally descended and landed, I watched to see just what altitude we would have to descend to, to hit air that was above freezing. It was somewhere around 10,000 feet.

You only see jets in the sky at low altitudes that are landing or taking off (from which I have seen contrails, but never chemtrails down that low.) Cruising altitude is 25000 to 35000 feet. The stop-start trail from chemtrail jets that I photographed 'sputtering' were at altitude, the jets were a tiny dot in the sky.

Certainly, Earth's atmosphere is dynamic and ever changing, and heavily influenced by altitude, water/land mass, air currents, ocean currents, seasons, and proximity to the poles or equator. But if the observations on that summertime flight over the Pacific from Hawaii to the US mainland (where you'd think there might just be a pocket of 32 air for the plane to fly through) are any indication (and I think it is, having been 85 degrees too cold to not form ice), then the notion of stop-start chemtrails being from thermal pockets is wrong.

Every so often, I will aim my camera up and capture images from a chemtrailed sky, and I have caught instances of the stop-start chemtrails (at high altitude - the jet is a tiny white dot), as well as images that clearly show a secondary trail of dark particles that is not a shadow.

The chemtrail conspiracy is one conspiracy where if you espouse "belief" in chemtrails in public, you are usually ridiculed and dismissed. So, it's not one of my big soapbox issues. But, chemtrails are real.

I used to think they are real but that the particles are probably considered as benign by the agency that is spraying them over us, and I figured that the function is probably to block some sunlight. Lately I have been thinking more about the nano-particles that they could include. The nanoparticles might be considered as benign (non-damaging) to themselves and loved ones, where an additional technology would be employed on the masses to weaponize or even assemble the particles into... something nefarious.

But the point I want to stress is that intermittent stripes in the sky from jets are not from the jet engine or from atmospheric conditions. Pauses in the chemtrail stripe are from switching tanks and from plugged nozzles on the chemtrail jets. Hate to sound so dogmatic and sure, but I'm applying physics and Occam's razor to this issue.

[Delight]

Chemtrails have been increased....I am seeing them

vo37ik

[ExomatrixTV]

International Weather Wars - 16 April 2022 - Featuring : Australia, Philippines, Indonesia, UK, USA:

-I72vts_kKU


antiweathermodification.weebly.com/follow-the-black-swan.html (https://antiweathermodification.weebly.com/follow-the-black-swan.html)

Your Government Is Not Telling You Everything
Please Research And Make Yourself Aware Of:

Taurus Molecular Cloud 65 (You Tube)
What In The World Are They Spraying (You Tube)
Why In The World Are They Spraying (You Tube)
"Rainmaking Linked to Killer Flood" (BBC)
Project Silver Lining/SPICE Geo Engineering trials- Norfolk & Scunthorpe, UK & the USA (Independant newspaper etc)
Chem Trails vs Con Trails (You Tube)
Subliminal Normalisation of Chem Trails in the Media (You Tube / web search)
Don't Talk About The Weather (Online Documentary)
Ocean Fertilisation / Fertilization (web search)
Cloud Seeding (web search)
Angels Don't Play This HAARP (You Tube)
NERC/MRST Radar Facility - Capel Dewi, Wales, U.K. (UK's HAARP Facility)

"Millions Were in Germ Warfare Tests" UK & USA (Guardian / Observer)
The Regulation of Geo Engineering - 221


publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/221/221.pdf (https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/221/221.pdf)



Search U.S. Patent site (https://www.uspto.gov/patents) with number:

2550324 - April 24, 1951 - Process For Controlling Weather
3518670 - June 30, 1970 - Artificial Ion Cloud
3813875 - June 4, 1974 - Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmopsphere
4042196 - August 16, 1977 - Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes
4653690 - March 31, 1987 - Method of producing cumulus clouds
5628455 - May 13,1997 - Method and apparatus for modification of supercooled fog
5984239 - November 16, 1999 - Weather modification by artificial satellite
6056203 - May 2, 2000 - Method and apparatus for modifying supercooled clouds
6315213 - November 13, 2001 - Method of modifying weather
4686605 - 1987 - Original Eastlund HAARP Patent
5159703 - Silent subliminal presentation system


use above patent numbers here (https://www.uspto.gov/patents) in search

cheers,
JohnKuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
April 16th, 2022 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

Weather Modification Is Real! & My Experience Fact-Checking The “Fact Checkers”:

RE0djFW1aZc

[Patient]

The problem with your engineering knowledge is it comes from books or shall I say formal miseducation.

LOL, the prejudgement is strong in this thread ;-) (maybe also from my side)

Nope, I am quite the opposite of what you describe. I had a quit interesting carrier including aerospace engineering without any relevant formal education. Just through curiosity and experience.

The point I wanted to make is that most chemtrail theorists may have a lot of curiosity, but zero experience in the relevant fields of aviation, engineering and physics. My prejudgement is that their "education" comes from conspiracy websites and forums, which are echo chambers of more people without any real world aviation experience.

Of course I have also researched chemtrail conspiracies, but I could not match it up with what I experienced in the aviation and engineering world. Since I perceive those areas as my core competency, I have some strong opinions around that.

Just wanted to put that out as counter point to think about: You can believe the experts in the conspiracy THEORY, or the people who deal in the real world with what the theory is about. And yes, of course the later ones may be blinded by, or be part of the conspiracy.

Or you could look at the patents, and the groups (companies and Universities ) who publicly admit to geo engineering.

If you only look at radical extremists, I guess that is what you will see.

WR6uSXW-8p4

[Ernie Nemeth]

Here in Toronto the spraying continues. I don't need an experiment to understand this.

The starburst pattern has been a mainstay here for a long time.

There is also energy being pumped into the patterns that is palpable, albeit indirectly. It plays havoc with emotions and the human body alike.

It seems they are insulating the sky to retain heat, as the temperature has been high the last few days. Then the starburst to the east this morning and now the weather has cooled considerably. I believe some of those particles can cause lensing, where the energy of the sun can be focused onto the surface. That same lensing effect causes the heat retention, as the returning energy waves reflect off the bottom of that layer and bounce back towards the Earth.

[kfm27917]

Spain Admits Spraying Chemtrails as Part of Secret UN Program

https://vervetimes.com/spain-admits-spraying-chemtrails-as-part-of-secret-un-program/

[ExomatrixTV]

Nanoparticulate Rain, Interview With A Scientist

NYBU5DUdXFc

[Johnnycomelately]

My Dog! Not you, John, just an expression. ~8O

How can you jive these claims, with your regular earnest demand for evidence? The guest “Joe” claims that winter traffic accidents are now worse than before, for the reason that frozen material from the sky (previously known as snow) now contains slippery surfactants that are used to manage/overcome sticking-together of chemical trail nanoparticles, so snow on roads is slicker (3:40 - 4:45). Oof.

I am a skeptic on this subject, but am open to receiving convincing evidence.



Nanoparticulate Rain, Interview With A Scientist

NYBU5DUdXFc