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thepainterdoug
22nd January 2019, 17:24
What do you do when simple "rest" can't even be attained ?

I can lay there, tired and I'm just in a zombie state, not awake , yet not asleep.

The simple joy of a restful nights sleep seems long gone in my world. Not on any pills, drugs, pharma or otherwise, one cup maybe two of coffee, usually only in morning.None of this stuff, the what are you doing ? drinking or eating ?etc, ever made a difference 20 years ago. I slept like a log

Its not any of these things, its something else. I hear this from many people as well. They can't sleep.

I go to bed, shut things off and in an hour, I'm awake for another 2, sometimes 3 hours, then fall asleep at 4 am and get 2 hours where i know I'm asleep cause I dream. if i get 4 hours total is huge

Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

Kryztian
22nd January 2019, 17:41
Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

I've noticed that too, for a few years now. It seems to be accompanied by a high frequency sound. I'm a very good sleeper and it usually doesn't keep me awake, but I think it contributes to an anxious state.

I am thinking I want to take a vacation to that part of Virginia, on the border of West Virginia, where there is almost no EMF: no television, radio, cell phone reception. Wondering if that feeling, that sound, would still there.

I keep looking for the Men in Black in a van parked outside of my house. :laser: They aren't there. I do a little yoga or make sure my smoky quartz crystal is nearby and things seem a bit better. Life goes on, but there is an unsettling mystery about the subtle energies around me.
:behindsofa:

AutumnW
22nd January 2019, 18:11
What do you do when simple "rest" can't even be attained ?

I can lay there, tired and I'm just in a zombie state, not awake , yet not asleep.

The simple joy of a restful nights sleep seems long gone in my world. Not on any pills, drugs, pharma or otherwise, one cup maybe two of coffee, usually only in morning.None of this stuff, the what are you doing ? drinking or eating ?etc, ever made a difference 20 years ago. I slept like a log

Its not any of these things, its something else. I hear this from many people as well. They can't sleep.

I go to bed, shut things off and in an hour, I'm awake for another 2, sometimes 3 hours, then fall asleep at 4 am and get 2 hours where i know I'm asleep cause I dream. if i get 4 hours total is huge

Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

I take mild meds to get to sleep and they help. What has been the most helpful is massaging magnesium gel into my leg muscles. This takes away most of the weird sensations that contribute to wakefulness and if I have muscle pain, it helps.

Very common to have sleep issues with age. Mine started full bore when I was in my forties.

Oral magnesium is often prescribed by doctors for insomnia and they will also test iron levels.

The best drug out there for insomnia is gabapentin and as it isn't addictive doctors are usually happy to prescribe it. I take a low dose.

Indigris
22nd January 2019, 18:17
I have had this for as long as I can remember. I have no doubt in my mind it is slowly killing me. My boyfriend has it too, as does my father. My mother and sister, on the other hand, are blessed to be quick and heavy sleepers, so I'm not sure it's the technology, even though it's a good guess, and you may be on to something.

For me, the only thing that works is weed. Unfortunately, since it's illegal here I have to be careful, and don't get a choice in strain, and always get bud (which hurts the lungs), but ideally I'd like to vape some regularly when it finally goes federal.

Indica works best.

Swan
22nd January 2019, 18:27
Yes, its been that way for me too. And I used to have no problems at all sleeping.

I sometimes take a product called "Sleep Perfect", which contains L-Theanine and melatonin. Sometimes I try CPD oil. But I seem to need more than the suggested dosages, and I still won't sleep through the night. Just wake up less frequently.

petra
22nd January 2019, 18:37
Pot puts me to sleep also, but it has a side effect of making my thoughts "go faster", messes with my memory, and doesn't always work.

NyQuil (ZZZQuil) works better with less weird side effects. I think that's why they invented the ZZZQuil (because people were taking NyQuil to help them sleep). Not trying to say you need to drug yourself just saying what works for me.



Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

Something foreign, but not good. Yeah I can relate to that...

In my case I thought it was something alive which was keeping me awake, and it felt as if whatever it was just didn't understand that I need to sleep. That led me to believe maybe it's some kind of alien. Everything living sleeps (in some form), except that thing apparently. Maybe it's not alive at all - it felt alive though.

I just kept insisting that I NEED to sleep, and eventually I was able to sleep again.

scotslad
22nd January 2019, 18:46
A wee tip that's worked for me over the years...

...Find a room with no tv/radio/computer on. Sit quietly (on a soft seat) and using 3 fingers from each hand place them on your forehead above your eyebrows. Very gently touching your skin, push all 6 fingers up to your hair line breathing in through your nose, and out through your mouth exhaling all your stresses and worries as you relax your body.

Just remind yourself that you are relaxing as you remember your breathing in through your nose, and out through your mouth...
...as you continue gently brushing your fingers up your forehead to your hairline - over and over.

Repeat for 10 - 15 mins

No stimulants. No mantras. No meds. No reigious visualisations.

(its worked for me especially after a stressful busy day)

Hope it helps.

pyrangello
22nd January 2019, 18:47
Yeah , I'm on the same bus ride as you all, go to sleep, wake up at 1 am and usually 4 times a night I'm up, getting worse as I get older now. Only one that's happy about it is my dog cause she gets to go out. REM sleep is very foreign to me, when I do go there ,its like a holiday to me. I remember my father use to sleep for a few then work a good part of the night and go back to sleep. There is something about the peaceful silence of the night that humanity is at rest and it seems like there is little disruption happening if that makes any sense. And there are also so many nights where I'm waking up to the angelic numbers of the angels around me, 111, 222, 1234, happens a lot .:)

onawah
22nd January 2019, 18:49
I've had issues with insomnia since 1972, when injuries sustained in an accident left me with disabilities and chronic pain.
It's very difficult to sleep when you are in pain!
I've stayed away from pharmaceuticals, but after a long search I found homeopathic remedies that worked like a charm.
That lasted for several years, then my body chemistry changed apparently and I had to experiment with different homeopathic remedies until I found the new right combination.
When that stopped working, I took valerian, hops and chamomile, which weren't as effective, but helpful except that valerian left me feeling dopey in the morning.
Then I went to 5HTP and melatonin, and finally Tryptophan, which still really works well, and I've been using that for a long time now.
I tried CBD oil but not enough to know yet how well that works.
It's still too pricey, but hopefully that will change soon.
I take lots of herbs and supplements including magnesium and am very conscientious with my diet.
I drink lots of pure water.
I just bought 10 Mylar blankets and I'm going to use them to protect myself from EMFs, to which I am sensitive.
I have a land line phone only, no mobile or cell phones.
I use only full spectrum light bulbs, which are much better for eyesight and normal brain activity.
I wear a sleep mask and ear plugs at night, and have no electric appliances near my bed, except for my mini BioMat (which provides soothing infra red heat and negative ions and has a built-in EMF protector).
...Except for my battery operated TENS unit, which I use for at least an hour before sleeping to help relax the tendinitis in my neck, shoulders and back.
I spend as much time in the woods as I can when weather permits.
I don't think I could drink coffee and expect to sleep at my age (70)!
I make a brew of several different medicinal herbs (Reishi mushroom, astragalus, ashwaganda, olive leaf, pau d' arco, Tulsi, burdock and dandelion root) and have about a cup of that with my morning smoothie.
About a pound of fresh aloe vera gel in my smoothie helps to keep my joints lubricated, digestive tract healthy, also anti-viral, anti-fungal, anti-bacterial.
Taking the wholistic approach to insomnia, as to any other health issue, is very helpful.
It's all connected!
It's a blessing to be able to sleep well at this stage in my life, and it has been well worth the effort I've put into insuring that I can.

thepainterdoug
22nd January 2019, 18:52
PYANGELLO 222 is my number. its constant. shows up all the time in many ways.

Sunny-side-up
22nd January 2019, 19:05
Wow thepainterdoug I've had sleep problems all my life, 59 now.

I still have problems going to sleep, I could stay awake for days left to my own ways, I'm married now so I adhere to a normal pattern, well try.

I broke the full on, can't get to sleep pattern by burning myself out, near on a week of being awake, did that many many times. Finally burn't out the inner energy drive.

Now i can sleep any time, even standing up. that is now because I'm the other side of the equation, I am dog tired all the time Dho :(

So I keep myself awake and then let go when it is bed time.
Find it hard going to sleep if laying on my back though.

So I wouldn't recommend my style of solving the problem.
but doing it once might help you, then timing it too a time when you would like to sleep.

Having said the above though, yes I'm dog tired all the time now, but can still stay awake for days if needed.

angelfire
22nd January 2019, 19:52
My sympathies, thepainterdoug. I've never been a good sleeper but in recent years the lack of it has reached absurd and dangerous levels as my body just can't cope the older I get.

I started a thread last year asking for help and advice, was blown away by the many responses and maybe there is something here to help you.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103359-Help-with-debilitating-insomnia

Some things worked for a while but now I think I'm really going to have to discipline myself (never my forte) to meditate and a friend has recently described how this technique [/URL] helped and continues to help clear and empty her mind - a procedure I'm definitely going to explore.

Wishing you increased and longer sweet dreams.


(https://www.esamskriti.com/sa/Ayurveda/Shirodhara-Therapy-1.aspx)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Link to technique mentioned above:



¤=[Post Update]=¤

[url]https://www.esamskriti.com/sa/Ayurveda/Shirodhara-Therapy-1.aspx (https://www.esamskriti.com/sa/Ayurveda/Shirodhara-Therapy-1.aspx)

snoman
22nd January 2019, 20:40
I was having trouble sleeping

Decided to try loose lavender tea

Made an extremely strong brew in a teapot (Measuring never entered my mind)

Drank it

Woke up 16 hours later

Have a play around with that

Smile

Akasha
22nd January 2019, 21:01
Have you tried not eating after 6pm?

Bubu
22nd January 2019, 22:07
Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

can bet you the cat is on another tree. There are wireless everywhere and people seem to be sleeping soundly.
I have been in the no sleep state before and was quickly losing life. That was after heavy doses of typhoid meds. I did a blood cleanse. right on the first night I was sleeping soundly that I woke up with the sun already up. I been dispensing the same herbs to friends and family and about half attest to sound sleeps about half said it increase sexual activity. I dont know the science behind just relating the experience. try goose grass with turmeric.

Valerie Villars
22nd January 2019, 22:08
Doug, do NOT take ZZZQuill. I took it for a while several years ago, after drinking wine and my boyfriend said I was saying and doing some dangerous things which I have no memory of. I quickly stopped the ZZZQuill and so did the dangerous behavior. He said I was saying and doing quite aggressive things. I thought the whole time that I was sleeping. I wasn't.

That tells me there is something NOT good in that over the counter medication.

Melatonin works well a few times a week. I find I can't take it every night because it becomes less effective and then doesn't work. But, I after a few nights of not sleeping well, it gives my mind and body a nice rest when I do take it.

Also, physical activity is a must for sleeping well. I have consistently worked out since I was about 28. The body was made to be used and exerted and it is healthy and right to do so.

I did take gabapentin for a while, because I had a prescription and that actually did work. However, I'm not sure of the long term side effects and it is a pharmaceutical which makes me pause.

I've heard too many stories about Ambien for me to even consider taking that. It seems to have some kind of a weird mind black out thing and I would stay away from that.

Bubu
22nd January 2019, 22:13
I also notice that when I have so much energy I can hardly sleep. But I dont feel tired on my waking time in fact the contrary is true so I just let go of sleep. I can go on for weeks on a 2 to 4 hours sleep each night and I am loving it.

Constance
22nd January 2019, 22:31
What do you do when simple "rest" can't even be attained ?



Hello PainterDoug:waving:

I completely empathise with you PD. :bearhug:When my son was young I was lucky if I got about 2 hours of sleep a day.
In my eyes, sleep has become the absolute #1 foundation for my overall health and wellbeing.
I don't know how helpful or relevant this might be to you but here goes.

Matthew Walker, (https://www.sleepdiplomat.com/) author of Why We sleep - unlocking the power of sleep and dreams (https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501144316), is interviewed here by Joe Rogan.
It is a brilliant conversation, very comprehensive, jam-packed with good advice and well worth listening to.


Key Takeaways (https://podcastnotes.org/2018/04/29/why-we-sleep/)

One half of your brain won’t sleep as deeply as the other, when sleeping in a foreign environment, like a hotel room
“Sleep is the greatest legal performance enhancing drug that most people are probably neglecting”
One hour of iPhone use before bed will delay the onset of melatonin production by about 3 hours (your peak melatonin levels will also be about 50% less)
Your brain needs to drop its temperature 2-3 °F in order to sleep (so keep your room as cold as you can tolerate)
Men who sleep 5-6 hours a night will have a level of testosterone 6-10 years their senior
Humans beings are the only species that deprive themselves of sleep for no apparent gain. Mother nature has never faced the challenge of coming up with a safety net for lack of sleep.


To Sum Up
“Sleep is the elixir of life. It is the most widely available and democratic powerful healthcare system I could ever possibly imagine.” Matthew Walker


pwaWilO_Pig

thepainterdoug
22nd January 2019, 23:02
THANKS ALL SO FAR. I'm obviously not alone in this. And will take note of all advice and recommendations

DeDukshyn
23rd January 2019, 00:00
THANKS ALL SO FAR. I'm obviously not alone in this. And will take note of all advice and recommendations

Two questions ...

1) Do you drink (alcohol)? Or have you recently quit / cut down?
2) Are you actually tired and being affected by tiredness, or, are you just concerned about not sleeping but don't have any major effects?

You said that you dream - dreaming (REM) usually has a short stint while you are falling asleep, and then starts to re-cur after you've gone through deep sleep. So this may indicate that you are actually going through a full sleep cycle, albeit in a generally shorter than usual amount of time.

If I cut both Alcohol and Marijuana completely out of my life, (takes a few weeks of being "sober"), I can get by easily on 4 hours of sleep, which is disconcerting, but I don't actually need more ... A few thoughts there, the questions are somewhat rhetorical in relationship to what I just shared - might be something else to consider.

Kryztian
23rd January 2019, 00:04
This is super gentle and has zero side effects and sometimes works miracles:

http://www.hylands.com/products/hylands-calms-fort%C3%A9%C2%AE
http://www.hylands.com/sites/default/files/CAFO100.png

Also, I have to say that I never sleep better and deeper than during a good water fast. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101104-Water-Fasting)

Ernie Nemeth
23rd January 2019, 00:14
Hi Doug.

I have problems sleeping only when I am on a schedule. Especially Sunday nights. I do not sleep at all. I feel like a zombie at work on Mondays. This week I called in sick.

For me, because I used to work my own business and could make my own hours, I find that my sleep rhythm is not set to a 24 hour clock. It is more like 26. If left to myself to sleep when I feel like sleeping I keep going to bed later and later to about 6 am. Then I reset at around 2 am again. Trying to get to sleep before 11 pm is next to impossible.

Now that I must sleep to a schedule I simply cannot get my rest. Last year I estimate I lost almost a full month (over 3 weeks) of sleep. I need exactly 8 hours but I average 5 to 6, if I am lucky - a loss of 2 hours per night or an entire night's sleep every week. An entire day of sleep every three weeks. To me that is serious.

I am convinced that the cause of most illness and disease is due to lack of sleep. And it is the source of much mental illness as well. Mental fatigue can readily slip into various mental disorders to compensate for the stress.

I have no remedy. I utterly distrust our pharmaceutical industry so have never so much as slowed to peruse sleep medications on the shelves. Dope keeps me awake so that's no good. Meditation works while I meditate but has no effect on my ability to go to sleep. I use body meditation to summon energy and vitality on the morning commute and to alleviate small aches and pains. By the time I get to work I feel strong enough to function - except for the sugar crash an hour later. After that I am on my own to get through the day as best I can.

It's a bummer.

thepainterdoug
23rd January 2019, 01:43
I don't drink alcohol anymore , and if i do maybe a glass of wine. but either way, it makes no difference. I get plenty of exercise, playing with two hockey teams .
I think its all cyclical , but don't know why.

I also suspect my building. my wifi aside, there are 50 wifi, coming into my space

Bubu
23rd January 2019, 01:56
Hi Doug.

I have problems sleeping only when I am on a schedule. Especially Sunday nights. I do not sleep at all. I feel like a zombie at work on Mondays. This week I called in sick.

For me, because I used to work my own business and could make my own hours, I find that my sleep rhythm is not set to a 24 hour clock. It is more like 26. If left to myself to sleep when I feel like sleeping I keep going to bed later and later to about 6 am. Then I reset at around 2 am again. Trying to get to sleep before 11 pm is next to impossible.

Now that I must sleep to a schedule I simply cannot get my rest. Last year I estimate I lost almost a full month (over 3 weeks) of sleep. I need exactly 8 hours but I average 5 to 6, if I am lucky - a loss of 2 hours per night or an entire night's sleep every week. An entire day of sleep every three weeks. To me that is serious.

I am convinced that the cause of most illness and disease is due to lack of sleep. And it is the source of much mental illness as well. Mental fatigue can readily slip into various mental disorders to compensate for the stress.

I have no remedy. I utterly distrust our pharmaceutical industry so have never so much as slowed to peruse sleep medications on the shelves. Dope keeps me awake so that's no good. Meditation works while I meditate but has no effect on my ability to go to sleep. I use body meditation to summon energy and vitality on the morning commute and to alleviate small aches and pains. By the time I get to work I feel strong enough to function - except for the sugar crash an hour later. After that I am on my own to get through the day as best I can.

It's a bummer.

a very effective way of combating tiredness at work is no eating and lots of water. I can work 6 am to 8 pm on the construction site, hard jobs, without snack or meal breaks. But i do take breaks because co workers take a nap after lunch or sleeping time already in the afternoon and dont want to disturb them. Cross country truck drivers dont eat for weeks until they are back home. One former avalonian claimed to have drive 3 weeks without food.

Nonono to dope try the indica instead. pills? scares me, anything that comes from pharma.

Olam
23rd January 2019, 01:57
THANKS ALL SO FAR. I'm obviously not alone in this. And will take note of all advice and recommendations

Two questions ...

1) Do you drink (alcohol)? Or have you recently quit / cut down?
2) Are you actually tired and being affected by tiredness, or, are you just concerned about not sleeping but don't have any major effects?

You said that you dream - dreaming (REM) usually has a short stint while you are falling asleep, and then starts to re-cur after you've gone through deep sleep. So this may indicate that you are actually going through a full sleep cycle, albeit in a generally shorter than usual amount of time.

If I cut both Alcohol and Marijuana completely out of my life, (takes a few weeks of being "sober"), I can get by easily on 4 hours of sleep, which is disconcerting, but I don't actually need more ... A few thoughts there, the questions are somewhat rhetorical in relationship to what I just shared - might be something else to consider.

Same here, alcohol gets me asleep fast but then I wake up two hours later and can't sleep.
Weed helps me sleep but I don't like the groggy side effects.
I also only need 4 hours on average, at 51, I don't know how I can do that but its been that way for a long time.
Tried CBD oil lately and it does the job, with no side effects that I can tell of.
I also sleep with my head to the south which works for me.

Bubu
23rd January 2019, 02:04
THANKS ALL SO FAR. I'm obviously not alone in this. And will take note of all advice and recommendations

Two questions ...

1) Do you drink (alcohol)? Or have you recently quit / cut down?
2) Are you actually tired and being affected by tiredness, or, are you just concerned about not sleeping but don't have any major effects?

You said that you dream - dreaming (REM) usually has a short stint while you are falling asleep, and then starts to re-cur after you've gone through deep sleep. So this may indicate that you are actually going through a full sleep cycle, albeit in a generally shorter than usual amount of time.

If I cut both Alcohol and Marijuana completely out of my life, (takes a few weeks of being "sober"), I can get by easily on 4 hours of sleep, which is disconcerting, but I don't actually need more ... A few thoughts there, the questions are somewhat rhetorical in relationship to what I just shared - might be something else to consider.

Same here, alcohol gets me asleep fast but then I wake up two hours later and can't sleep.
Weed helps me sleep but I don't like the groggy side effects.
I also only need 4 hours on average, at 51, I don't know how I can do that but its been that way for a long time.
Tried CBD oil lately and it does the job, with no side effects that I can tell of.
I also sleep with my head to the south which works for me.

I guess most of us are just captive of the "8 hour a day sleep" mantra. Sleeps are required for certain reasons like repair of body tissues and growth. Is it hard to believe that some people repair faster than others. Ever heard of the man who never sleeps?

I normally watch energy levels. What gives me energy. regardless of sleeps. sometime I woke up after an 8 hours sleep and feel tired thats normally after I over ate the previous day or two parties parties holidays junk foods.

Unless its making me tired I dont care not sleeping.

chancy
23rd January 2019, 02:33
What do you do when simple "rest" can't even be attained ?

I can lay there, tired and I'm just in a zombie state, not awake , yet not asleep.

The simple joy of a restful nights sleep seems long gone in my world. Not on any pills, drugs, pharma or otherwise, one cup maybe two of coffee, usually only in morning.None of this stuff, the what are you doing ? drinking or eating ?etc, ever made a difference 20 years ago. I slept like a log

Its not any of these things, its something else. I hear this from many people as well. They can't sleep.

I go to bed, shut things off and in an hour, I'm awake for another 2, sometimes 3 hours, then fall asleep at 4 am and get 2 hours where i know I'm asleep cause I dream. if i get 4 hours total is huge

Its like some kind of energy is running thru me, perhaps wireless and 5 g?? something foreign, can't explain but not good

Hello thepainterdoug:
I have been there. I could sleep in less than 2 minutes BUT for a year couldn't sleep only 1-2 hours per night if that.

If you have checked your blood pressure and it's good then there are a couple of things you can try that will help much more than people would think.

1. eat a healthy diet
2. get a foot massager that is pretty aggressive. I use mine for 10 minutes before I go to bed and won't wake up until the alarm goes off in the morning.
3. check to see if you snore or have sleep apnea. I never knew I snored until I got married...Yes I know no one told me..haha
I bought a unit and it worked so well I bought a few more as spares. It's called Snoreeze and it's extremely easy to use and cheap. I wish I owned the company BUT am a very satisfied user. Here"s the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Snoreeze-Snoring-Relief-Oral-Device/dp/B00CSRLTHQ

IF none of those help I would say take some melatonin. I have used those in the past but wanted to be less pill oriented.
I was taking 10 - 10mg pills a night and got great sleep.

Good luck! Sleep is almost more important than being awake...

chancy

DeDukshyn
23rd January 2019, 03:13
THANKS ALL SO FAR. I'm obviously not alone in this. And will take note of all advice and recommendations

Two questions ...

1) Do you drink (alcohol)? Or have you recently quit / cut down?
2) Are you actually tired and being affected by tiredness, or, are you just concerned about not sleeping but don't have any major effects?

You said that you dream - dreaming (REM) usually has a short stint while you are falling asleep, and then starts to re-cur after you've gone through deep sleep. So this may indicate that you are actually going through a full sleep cycle, albeit in a generally shorter than usual amount of time.

If I cut both Alcohol and Marijuana completely out of my life, (takes a few weeks of being "sober"), I can get by easily on 4 hours of sleep, which is disconcerting, but I don't actually need more ... A few thoughts there, the questions are somewhat rhetorical in relationship to what I just shared - might be something else to consider.

Same here, alcohol gets me asleep fast but then I wake up two hours later and can't sleep.
Weed helps me sleep but I don't like the groggy side effects.
I also only need 4 hours on average, at 51, I don't know how I can do that but its been that way for a long time.
Tried CBD oil lately and it does the job, with no side effects that I can tell of.
I also sleep with my head to the south which works for me.

Yes, good add on the head direction - I also am quite affected by which direction my head points - in both my dreams and dreaming ability and in sleep quality.

Constance
23rd January 2019, 06:30
Yes, good add on the head direction - I also am quite affected by which direction my head points - in both my dreams and dreaming ability and in sleep quality.

Same! Although my head direction is East.

I always keep pen and paper next to my bed and scribble in the dark for dream recall.

I've also observed that downloading inspirations during the night is more regular in this direction than if I face any other direction.

conk
23rd January 2019, 13:25
Some in my family suffer the same difficulty. We found this recipe from Dr. Frank Shallenberger:

Amino Acid 5-HTP - 100 mg at bedtime
CBD - 10 - 25 mg at bedtime (fullspectrumhemp.com or cwhemp.com)
Melatonin - 60 mg at bedtime
Methyl Folate - 10 mg
Cannabis indica 4:1 (CBD:THC) 10 mg at bedtime (in states with medical marijuana use)

This worked for all of us. And we didn't use the THC, just the CBD oil. Good luck.

wondering
23rd January 2019, 15:59
Has anyone tried falling to sleep listening to music? I have a CD of “angelic voices”, but it could just as easily be anything gentle. I have listened to it so long that it is definitely part of my falling to sleep ritual. When i get up during the night, which I do 3 or 4 times, I just start it again when I go back to bed and usually fall back to sleep. I would love to sleep 7 or 8 hours straight, but I think those days are gone. Now I get several hours of interrupted sleep, but sleep nonetheless.

Olam
23rd January 2019, 16:06
Some in my family suffer the same difficulty. We found this recipe from Dr. Frank Shallenberger:

Amino Acid 5-HTP - 100 mg at bedtime
CBD - 10 - 25 mg at bedtime (fullspectrumhemp.com or cwhemp.com)
Melatonin - 60 mg at bedtime
Methyl Folate - 10 mg
Cannabis indica 4:1 (CBD:THC) 10 mg at bedtime (in states with medical marijuana use)

This worked for all of us. And we didn't use the THC, just the CBD oil. Good luck.

Thats quite the cocktail there !
Feel groggy the next morning?

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Yes, good add on the head direction - I also am quite affected by which direction my head points - in both my dreams and dreaming ability and in sleep quality.

Same! Although my head direction is East.

I always keep pen and paper next to my bed and scribble in the dark for dream recall.

I've also observed that downloading inspirations during the night is more regular in this direction than if I face any other direction.

Yes I tried East extensively , South seems to work best for me.
I ask for important messages in my dreams, like having passed relatives and spirit guides show up, South seems to work best for that.

Ernie Nemeth
23rd January 2019, 17:12
I also prefer head facing south...

we-R-one
23rd January 2019, 17:37
Has anyone considered glucose levels being the cause behind troubled sleep? My naturopathic doctor brought this to my attention and how it can drastically affect your sleep. I'm not sure one has to necessarily be a diabetic either to have the issues as I'm not. The western diet is so poor I can see after several years of subjecting your cells to processed foods that the condition would become inevitable. This little blurb below kind of explains it:

"Sleep can affect your blood sugar levels, and your blood glucose control can also affect your sleep. It's a vicious cycle. As the amount of sleep decreases, blood sugar increases, escalating the issue. Lack of sleep has been shown to increase blood sugar levels and the risk of diabetic issues."

Source: https://www.alaskasleep.com/blog/blood-sugar-and-sleep-problems

I don't have time to type up in more detail, just wanted to point you in a possible direction. I have a feeling this problem is more prevalent than people realize since practically everything in our diet is loaded with carbohydrates. If you haven't already, start reading labels of everything you put in your mouth, it's out of control.

spade
23rd January 2019, 17:37
I don't drink alcohol anymore , and if i do maybe a glass of wine. but either way, it makes no difference. I get plenty of exercise, playing with two hockey teams .
I think its all cyclical , but don't know why.

I also suspect my building. my wifi aside, there are 50 wifi, coming into my space

Would you be keen to try a holiday secluded away from all the WIFI and EMF interference? Camping / Yurts / Thailand (Pai), nature? You can really put this theory to the test. I used to suffer a lot, living in a 25 storey apartment surrounded by WIFI neighbours. Another thing that helped was taking pure gum spirits of turpentine an hour before I slept for twice a week, and it basically kickstarted / resetted my sleep after that. Didn't have to take the turpentine again after.

thepainterdoug
23rd January 2019, 18:18
KRYZTIAN/ ahhhh the water fast, I'm creeping up on it. trying a full day out so far. it let me know i can do it, and i can already feel that you can get on a roll, a high and not want to eat. but then folding the tent, playing hockey and started eating some. lol not much

but will get there!! thanks



spade // and interesting regarding the turpentine

thepainterdoug
23rd January 2019, 18:22
Thanks all/ all these remedies, solutions, seem to be of a new world. did people need do this , did our parents struggle to sleep and need to do these things in the early days? the pre computer days?

Mike
23rd January 2019, 18:27
Ernie and Duk, any idea why head direction is important?

Sunny-side-up
23rd January 2019, 19:15
Ernie and Duk, any idea why head direction is important?

Our internal compus, magnetic's.
We live in energy fields, we are energy fields, so I guess we can feel better if aligned with what we need.

snoman
23rd January 2019, 19:19
Until the 17th century it was quite a common practice to sleep in two sittings.. four hours at dusk followed by a couple of hours awake doing things,
then another four hour sleep. Roger Ekrich in ' At Day’s Close' researched diaries, court records, anthropology, and literature to discover this.
During the waking period people would read, pray, have sex, and even visit neighbours. A 16th-century doctor’s manual actually recommended that this
was the best time of the day to conceive.

Smile.

Bubu
24th January 2019, 01:56
Until the 17th century it was quite a common practice to sleep in two sittings.. four hours at dusk followed by a couple of hours awake doing things,
then another four hour sleep. Roger Ekrich in ' At Day’s Close' researched diaries, court records, anthropology, and literature to discover this.
During the waking period people would read, pray, have sex, and even visit neighbours. A 16th-century doctor’s manual actually recommended that this
was the best time of the day to conceive.

Smile.

sometime ago I decided to follow my senses. Eat when hungry rest when tired. surprisingly what you describe is what I have now. regardless of how much sleep I get I almost always get it in two settings

Whisper
24th January 2019, 07:27
hey, did you ever hear of the power of natural salt? It could help you sleep better.

Take a warm shower befor you go sleep. Clean your body with sea salt while you take your shower. Sea salt or stone salt..both is fine to use. It only works with natural salt. It flushes away bad energies you catched at day time. Always thank grandmother water for the cleaning help.

When you go sleep, pour some sea salt into a glas and fill it up with warm water. Put the glass on your night table or some other spot close to your bed. It will clean the room athmospere from negative energy. This is especially a great help if you travel and sleep at a hotel or some other place you are not used to and don*t know who stayed in the room before.

I did hear this some time ago and was sceptical too. But I did try it out ...and it did help me. I have a sleeping apnoe...and was very surprised to find out...this really works for me. Maybe this could be a help for some other people around here too.
Natural salt has magic power!!! Check it out... and let me know later on if it did work for you too.....thanks...:waving:

scotslad
24th January 2019, 21:25
Interesting article - 12 plants for your bedroom to help you sleep better ...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/12-plants-for-your-bedroom-to-sleep-better-and-treat-insomnia_2773782.html

Hope it helps

Tomkoyote
24th January 2019, 21:53
Thanks all/ ... did people need do this , did our parents struggle to sleep and need to do these things in the early days?
Nope, our parents, did not need to do this because did not struggle to sleep.
In the early days EMF was minimal. Today we swim 24/7 in a high density EMF. Chemtrails make it worse and more insideous.
2) in the early days people used to live at ground level and often walked barefoot in contact with the ground ie were grounded in contact with earth magnetic field. Today people live in cattle parks, high rises made up of aluminum frame and glass, totally disconected from the earth and bombarded with even more EMF.

A few hundred years ago the earth magnetic field was estimated at around 2-3 gauss, today it is less than 1 gauss.
Last week I saw a sign by the city hailing the benefits of LED, signaling their intention to replace all city lights with LED. LED emits harmful EMFs and a sleep disrupter.

Insomnia means low melatonin production by the pineal gland. One way to raise melatonin is with magnets directed at the pineal gland. Melatonin tablets didn't work for me.

Mandala
25th January 2019, 03:32
Doug, you are not alone. Last night I did clock checking. That’s where you wake up every hour on the hour and say, omg I’ve only got 4 hours left to sleep. Then you look at the clock and say, omg I’ve only 3 hours left. Then 2, then 1 and finally you get up and say, I might as well just get up, I’m not sleeping.

Anyone ever do that?

Sunny-side-up
25th January 2019, 13:32
Interesting article - 12 plants for your bedroom to help you sleep better ...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/12-plants-for-your-bedroom-to-sleep-better-and-treat-insomnia_2773782.html

Hope it helps

Hmm? always thought plants in the bedroom not a good idea, they take in air at night?
Plus
Make sure they are not poisonous to your cats if you have any 0.o

wondering
25th January 2019, 13:36
Mandala, Many times! It finally becomes just a relief to get up and do it!

Agape
25th January 2019, 15:37
Hello @Dough, start walking I suggest. Start with two hour walks and keep extending them as soon as your body gets used to the idea of healthy fatigue.
Walk through the landscape that keeps changing ,walk through different environments , don’t talk to people, don’t get absorbed in details or too much thought, keep walking till you can and make sure you’re able to get back safely.

Working from one place/chair/office can get strenuous on Mind but body gets very little workout -much below average for most civilised people.
So many people try to compensate this by various intense and sometimes exotic disciplines, going to expensive gyms or attending hatha yoga classes and some do extra few push ups every evening and call it a workout:)

Exotic forms of exercise no matter how intense have their limits set low. It means you can’t ever reach your total limits or get over them and thus,
your body always stores more energy than it spends.

In that condition we eat and feel hungry but it’s not “real hunger”. We feel fatigued but it’s not “real fatigue”. The state gets chronic for most civilised people and difficult to change unless you can change environments and life style.

The healthiest component we function with are water and oxygen. If people claim to be breatharians they have to be able to get extra exercise and so also oxygen everyday otherwise they’d get stuck,metabolically.

For people who can’t walk in fresh air, swimming for couple of hours can do the same job.

It’s interesting to observe ones natural limits and crossing them, each time, little by little. It’s also interesting to observe that neither body or mind need lots of extra calories for healthy couple hours walk and swim because there’s so much extras that’s been stored in them previously.

If you can do any of this you’ll see the healthy mechanism kicks back in and sooner or later you’ll return to where you’ve been as child.
Children use their physical energy lots more compared to adults so they also sleep well, usually.

In the Himalayas you can see 90 years olds walking their sheep or goats up and down the slopes everyday, chopping wood, fetching water, doing their prayers ..
sleeping well and being quite self sufficient.

There’s so much the Mind can only process in open space and fresh Air too.



Well, hope this was not my last advise to human kind but it’s a good one.


🙏🌸🙏🕊🕊🕊

Bubu
25th January 2019, 17:08
Doug, you are not alone. Last night I did clock checking. That’s where you wake up every hour on the hour and say, omg I’ve only got 4 hours left to sleep. Then you look at the clock and say, omg I’ve only 3 hours left. Then 2, then 1 and finally you get up and say, I might as well just get up, I’m not sleeping.

Anyone ever do that?

Yes been there done that, until I finally stop caring about 8 hour sleep. Like for example today I sleep at around 10 pm wake up at around 1200 (next day already) I will go to bed around 3 or 4 am or until I am sleepy then wake up 5 to 7 am and feel completely recharge. Found out that forcing myself to an 8 hour sleep a day makes me lethargic during the day simply because I believe that I am weak because I did not have enough sleep. Its in the head.

Ernie Nemeth
25th January 2019, 23:19
The only method that works for me is to purposely get little sleep two or three days in a row. The next night I will sleep like a baby. I am so against this slave wage system and its grueling 40 hour minimum work week that I am resentful to the core for ever having come to this planet. If I am not working I am fine so I know there is no fix for me - unless the entire world finally comes to its senses.

Then the other side of me whispers of true purpose, true identity, real life. Then I remember why I came. Before I can help others break this mind trap, I have to break it myself.

In fact, what you are can never be fatigued. And the body only responds to your perception and belief.

The body does as the mind decrees. It's part of the mind trap.

DeDukshyn
26th January 2019, 01:47
The only method that works for me is to purposely get little sleep two or three days in a row. The next night I will sleep like a baby. I am so against this slave wage system and its grueling 40 hour minimum work week that I am resentful to the core for ever having come to this planet. If I am not working I am fine so I know there is no fix for me - unless the entire world finally comes to its senses.

Then the other side of me whispers of true purpose, true identity, real life. Then I remember why I came. Before I can help others break this mind trap, I have to break it myself.

In fact, what you are can never be fatigued. And the body only responds to your perception and belief.

The body does as the mind decrees. It's part of the mind trap.

I think this sentiment applies almost universally, it is the degree in which it has your attention. Its an unfortunate situation for many. I remember he predictions back in the 80s of how computers, robotics (and later internet) will revolutionize existence, people will be able to work a 3 day workweek of 5 hours per day, everyone will be richer -- these grand new technologies are the path to utopia!!

Ok I'm just ranting now ...

Ernie Nemeth
26th January 2019, 16:56
What we didn't understand then, and most refuse to believe now, is that they must have us working long hours so they can steal our labour from us and give it to the unproductive ones coming up through the universities. Only wealth builders are productive, that's the ones that get dirty for a living handling the tangible realities of our society, creating wealth that is then stolen by the upper classes, leaving the worker with little bits of paper and blips on a screen - that they control the issue and display of.

Other than the true worker there is only the ethical chicanery that allows for the creation of a new class of worker: the value-added worker - another word for theft.

markenty13
27th January 2019, 17:58
If i struggle to get some needed sleep i always reach out to ASMR. Its so relaxing when you find the technique you like :)

If you are not familiar with ASMR, heres a summary -

a feeling of well-being combined with a tingling sensation in the scalp and down the back of the neck, as experienced by some people in response to a specific gentle stimulus, often a particular sound.
"ASMR is triggered by things like whispering voices, paper tearing, and scalp massage"


Here are some of my favourite ASMR artists -

Latte ASMR - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQe2Y7V-C9bNMAcCJCBvzQQ

Michael Kimball - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEcjxnsgNZuGcxwVt7yLZyQ

Massage ASMR - https://www.youtube.com/user/MassageASMR

Whisper
27th January 2019, 23:26
....ups...sorry ..double post..deleted...

Flash
27th January 2019, 23:41
What we didn't understand then, and most refuse to believe now, is that they must have us working long hours so they can steal our labour from us and give it to the unproductive ones coming up through the universities. Only wealth builders are productive, that's the ones that get dirty for a living handling the tangible realities of our society, creating wealth that is then stolen by the upper classes, leaving the worker with little bits of paper and blips on a screen - that they control the issue and display of.

Other than the true worker there is only the ethical chicanery that allows for the creation of a new class of worker: the value-added worker - another word for theft.

I sooooo sooooo disagree with you here.

This is, in my view, the speech of a frustrated worker (justifiably sometimes) against a class of people who just went to school to do something else.

What would be your health status if you were still submitted to microbes and lack of hygiene? This is doctors who studied the microbes and found the most efficient hygienic rules, so that we are all living past 45 years old.

It is trained engineers who can go on constructing solid huge bridges, or sending stuff in space, who finally allows you nowadays to communicate on this forum.

Pencil pushers are useful sometimes you know.

I think you mix the 1% extra wealthy ones, a wealth we cannot even imagine, with university schooled people who are often working 60 hours a week to manage the industries that hire you or to create new stuff stolen by the Chinese (kidding here, almost).

Also, to criticize a whole group of pretty much less paid university trained people than electrician are (yes, you are on average better paid than most university trained people, at least in Canada) is not very realistic.

Plus, have you any idea of the depth of knowledge and the real difficulties one encounters when studying for a Master or a PhD?

I am refraining from saying more, because on average, I truly like your posts and I like reading you, but here, really - go a bit deeper please.

---------------

As for sleep problems, one thing for sure: get rid of the narcissists in your life and you will start sleeping much better. These people put you on edge all day long, you stop relaxing altogether when living with them.

Talking here through experience, no judgment at all. It takes years to solve these problems (sleep and narcissists) in one's life. It also takes years to recuperate from the experience afterwards.

Whisper
27th January 2019, 23:48
Never did hear of this ASMR before. But it sound interesting. I will check it out.

I sometimes like to have the fan run all night, because the movement of the air and the steady sound makes me sleep more deep. And it keeps other night noises, like barking dogs, loud car engine, people talking or passing by...more away from my ear.

Just had to think of another possibility to relax and clear your mind to get a good night sleep. You can listen and watch one of those beautiful videos, nature music videos which often have a very amazing effect towards me, if watched and listend before I go sleep. There are all diffrent kind in the net. Some are only with nature sound..like a waterfall, ocean waves or winds blowing through the trees, bird singing aso. - others are mixed with nature sounds and meditation music like this one for example :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toJXGj4GNew which is with music in the 432 hz healing frequencie.... This is only a 2 hr. video, but there are way longer once in the net 8 - 10 hrs. ones....

I just love those kind relaxing videos and sounds.....it is so beautiful. :heart:

Here is a list of sleep music videos -
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sleep+music+nature+sound+432+ hz....Check it out.

And then I remember, before I found those in the net, I use to listen to one sleep CD...which really works to fall into sleep, even if you are not tired at the moment. But I am not sure if it is very healthy to manipulate your brain like this.....

Just in case you want to know : It was this here, if I remember right ...

https://www.monroeinstitute.org/node/1067

but like I said before, I am not sure if this is a healthy way in the long run. The Monroe Institut works with certain sounds to trigger the brain and as far as I know with subliminals also.....

And me, I prefer a more natural way to get a good night sleep by now. :flower: http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/sleep/t2239.gif

DeDukshyn
28th January 2019, 00:03
What we didn't understand then, and most refuse to believe now, is that they must have us working long hours so they can steal our labour from us and give it to the unproductive ones coming up through the universities. Only wealth builders are productive, that's the ones that get dirty for a living handling the tangible realities of our society, creating wealth that is then stolen by the upper classes, leaving the worker with little bits of paper and blips on a screen - that they control the issue and display of.

Other than the true worker there is only the ethical chicanery that allows for the creation of a new class of worker: the value-added worker - another word for theft.

Actually, there's plenty enough wealth and technology for almost everyone to live a utopia life on earth (worlds current wealth redistributed - everyone on earth gets over 10 million). What most people don't understand is that there are no systems that restrain the greed of those with means to exercise that level of insatiable greed and those who exercise that also have a large level of control to keep it this way.

The distance between the super rich and the working classes has become massive in the last 50 years -- these new ways of doing things and new technologies that were promised to make the working classes be able to work less and spend more (what we currently would consider "healthy" economic growth and "healthy" inflation) have only worked to make the rich, who own these corporations that had the most to gain from these technologies, get richer, while the working class gets poorer, and continues to get more poor each day. The improvements to technologies, business, and manufacturing have been the vehicle to allow this redistribution of wealth to occur, on the deceitful promises that they will be good for everyone, and "good for the economy".

No social policies of any sort caused this occur - that is an illusion planted into the minds of many - in fact any social policies that have been applied, didn't do a damn thing or the graph below would look different -- pause and think about it ... if what you say was true, the point that made me write me initial argument wouldn't even exist ... but it does exist, and that graph below is reflecting reality.

Whatever amount of riches you think is flowing from the middle class to the poor due to social programs is not really happening the way you think, or that graph wouldn't look that way. The money is moving up due to unrestrained capitalism and large corporations and banks who's only goal is to suck as much wealth out of its consumers and middle class, and who has been succeeding at that extremely well.

Social policies have been put into place or beefed up in an effort to try to combat this, but it is obviously not nearly enough to have any real effect. "Socialism" has been made the scapegoat for what is almost entirely capitalist created problem, and it is always the first thing shouted out first, by the people who make their wealth due to the systems that have continued to allow the rich to get richer and the poor poorer - as they need to defend their structure and they need the support of their "supporters" to ensure that this system isn't tampered with.

Considering that in the broad scheme of things, north America is a wholly capitalist society - the whole notion of blaming socialist policy for this state we are in is frankly entirely ridiculous, but it makes a great scapegoat to those who need to keep the current structure to further the imbalance. It's their supporters that parrot the blame on social policy, its just another way that people are controlled by the political machine and they have no idea they are just a pawn being used to help the rich achieve their goals - they don't care about you or anyone else in the working class. They care about their money and power, and how they can manipulate and control those that can help to bring it to them, and to manipulate those who would defend the systems that created the current situation.


https://wir2018.wid.world/files/executive-summary/figure-e3.png


Edit: we're waaay off topic, I suggest that if we end up continuing this conversation maybe the mods can break this part out.