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irishspirit
6th January 2011, 19:58
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner asked Congress to raise the US debt ceiling Thursday, firing the starting gun on a fresh political battle over the country's massive deficit.

In a letter the Senate's top legislator, Geithner asked for permission to increase the national debt from the 14.29 trillion dollar limit set last year.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.24aed2d4393365e0c8062dcc2cd184c f.791&show_article=1

I am sorry, but America as a nation cannot afford any more debt. It is already well over extended (being nice there), it cannot tax its people any more, and for this to be done is suicide for this nation. Ops wait, that is the plan.

Steven
6th January 2011, 20:55
Thanks Irish,

In my opinion, the people of every countries with national debts, both internal and external, should demand;

1. A moratorium on the payment of any national debts.
2. A clear explanation on any debt.
3. Clear answer to the questions;
a) To which banks or financial institution has been contracted the debt?
b) What are the terms and the interest rates at which the money has been landed? (People would fall off their chairs learning this).
c) What is the portion of the National income paying the debts? (Many are over 25% today)
d) What was the use of the initial capital borrowed? (In many cases, the money has not serve the nation)
e) How many times the initial capital has be already paid back? (In 1994, Brazil had paid over 10 times its initial capital sum and still paying a GROWING debt)
f) Can we challenge the rules of financial agreement when they are non-ethical both for the people and the environment? (Of course we can)

I say STOP paying the debts! They are made not to be paid back, but rather to make us work for nothing. And I would add we should stop borrowing more, instead we should be more creative to find other solution/alternative. Island showed us the way.

Namaste, Steven

irishspirit
6th January 2011, 21:06
steven;

as always! excellent post.

The trouble is, to many sheep and not enough wolfs. People don't want to know, and worse still, will see this as another way to boost the economy up. Sad, but true!

Lefty Dave
6th January 2011, 22:40
Greetings
First of all, I find it appalling that the person charged with control and oversight is the one asking to do wrong !!! He know's it's wrong....it's his job to ask the government to pare its' spending....but he doesn't. And that's the story of USA since Kennedy...most of us know we are doomed here...we're just too busy with the football game and the sixpack to do anything about it...sad. Blessings

Steven
7th January 2011, 18:47
The trouble is, to many sheep and not enough wolfs. People don't want to know, and worse still, will see this as another way to boost the economy up. Sad, but true!

Thanks Irish,

My opinion differ. It might be true if we look at the way people and the world used to react and behave. But things are different now, and will get more different exponentially as time goes by.

Ultimately, one day, sooner than we might logically think it would happen, the people will come to this recognition. It is unavoidable. The reason is simple; We take our reference from the past. But the past is not a reference anymore. There are simply too many energies of transformation available as we speak, an increasing potential for changes. Soon, it'll be simply impossible to keep sleeping because the ringer will be too loud, omnipresent.

Namaste, Steven

mgray
8th January 2011, 15:03
Geithner is just taking a tact from the Hank Paulson playbook. Allege that finacial Armageddon will occur if you don't give us the money.

Fredkc
10th January 2011, 14:06
Yes, I know.... "Gee! Is he just figuring this out?"

Geithner Says U.S. Insolvent

by Michael S. Rozeff

The U.S. government is insolvent. Who says so? Timothy F. Geithner, the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury.

Geithner sent a letter to Congress on Jan. 6, 2011 asking for the debt limit to be raised. If it is not raised, he warned, the U.S. will default on its debt. In his words:

Never in our history has Congress failed to increase the debt limit when necessary. Failure to raise the limit would precipitate a default by the United States."

He didnít say that the government will be inconvenienced. He didnít say that the government would be forced to muddle through by delaying payments, raising taxes, and cutting non-obligatory programs and services. He said the government will default. This means that the government doesnít have enough cash to pay its obligations to the many and sundry persons to whom it owes cash unless Congress authorizes an issue of even more debt.

After the government issues the new debt, its overall debt will be even higher than before. Unless its obligations that require cash payments are reduced, or unless it finds new sources of revenue, or unless the interest rates that it pays decline, the same situation will surely occur again and occur even faster because its overall debt will have risen. It will run short of cash to pay its obligations.

Suppose that you had a debt of $10,000 that required a payment of $500 in order to stave off your creditorsí seizing your assets. Suppose that you didnít have the $500. One way out would be to borrow $500 from a new lender and use that $500 to pay off the old lenders. That buys you time. However, now you have debts of $10,500. You have to find ways of lowering this or else you will again be faced with an even worse situation.

You are approaching insolvency when you begin to run out of new lenders who are willing to add to your debt. The willing lenders dry up because they know that they have to get in line to get their promised payments while you continually seek out new borrowers, all the while making your situation worse and worse.

Knowing their precarious position, the new lenders are likely to demand rising default risk premiums.

That means they demand higher interest rates.

That means your cash payment obligations go up. That hastens your approach to insolvency.

Insolvency occurs when you cannot find enough cash from any source, even new lenders, in order to make required payments.

The U.S. is approaching insolvency, according to its Treasury Secretary.
[more... (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff338.html)]

Fredkc
10th January 2011, 14:11
A few months back, Laurence Kotlikoff wrote that "The U.S. is bankrupt." Using the governmentís numbers properly labeled, he found that the U.S. fiscal gap, which is the difference between the present value of projected spending and revenues, is $202 trillion. An IMF study of the U.S. finances found that it would have to double taxes to close its fiscal gap. This is an impossibility. It would destroy the struggling economy.

Geithnerís statement confirms those of other analysts outside of the U.S. government.

WyoSeeker
10th January 2011, 18:47
Debt ceiling - that's kinda funny. As stated, Congress has never failed to raise the debt ceiling - maybe it's just me but it's not a ceiling if every time you get close to it you just raise it higher.

Wish my finances worked the same way the government's does. When my credit cards hit their limit I could just raise the limit indefinitely.

Lost Soul
11th January 2011, 05:04
U.S. has been bankrupt for years. Even if we were to eliminate the military in its entirety including military all pensions and the Veterans' Administration and its hospitals, the tax revenue of the United States will not cover the combined costs of social security, medicare and medicaid. Congress has been playing footloose with the budget for too many years and the collapse is inevitable as it is cheaper to collapse that even try to pay off the money owed to foreign nations. Think of it like Weimar Germany paying off the victorious European nations with worthless marks.

What we need is to invent something on the level of the wheel. If we came out with a green, renewable energy and kept the patents and production here, we could reverse our downward spiral. If we don't, the middle class will be gone and the United States will be a leader in de-industrialized nations. Most of us will be tenant-farmers, just like the medieval days.

Arrowwind
11th January 2011, 06:42
In my opinion printing more money will give us, those who are not prepared time to prepare for radical change coming.
If you do not prepare you are missing this blessed opportuny and one may not come again.
Prepare spiritually, economically and materially the best you can.

Mayan2012
11th January 2011, 07:40
Does anyone besides me think that there is no such thing a "The National Debt"?

I have thought it over and over and I can't remember anyone saying we borrowed X amount of dollars, followed by who we borrowed the dollars from. What I hear is that the money is released by the "Federal Reserve" ok, so how did the federal reserve get so much money that all they need to do is ok here is the $700,000,000,000 dollars you asked for to misappropriate anyway you seem fit. Where does the money come from? I have come to one inevitable conclusion, the money does not exist, this money is simply digits that are written on one computer and and transfered to another computer, then when someone gets payed from those "funds", a check is written out and then the payee takes it to his bank and hands it to the bank clerk who promptly reads the check and writes the appropriate amount in the bank member's account then the bank sends the check to the U.S. Treasury to make the funds good. So at this time the U.S. treasury clerk sits on his computer and and types the amount of the check on his keyboard and electronically sends those digits to the bank to make the check good.

So my friends there is no money. When I bought my house, I got a loan from my bank but I did not get a pile of hundred dollar bills I got this 4x6 piece of cardboard with the amount of the cost of the house on it, I gave it to the seller's, or rather my lawyer gave it to the seller's lawyer and I just signed a thousand papers that I still don't know what was written on it because we were only there for a bout one hour and it would have taken me the rest of the night and then some to go through the legal mumbo jumbo and would have pissed off the dozen or so people present if I had done what was my right and read this contract, instead I trusted everyone else, since I was just anxious to get the precious keys to my new house and I wanted to see the smile on the faces of my beautiful wife and wonderful daughters when we walked in to our house.

When is the Federal Reserve going to say, ok U.S. you owe us 50 trillion dollars and we want our money back. Never. The debt is there only to put fear in people so that there is a reason to make us pay taxes and keep us enslaved, basically, into thinking that we have to keep going to work and do what we think is our American duty.

Then there is the myth that we owe money to China. How and why did we borrow money from China? When they gave us money, did they give us crates of Renminbi (Chinese currency)? Or did the clerk at their national treasury sit at his computer and type out the amount that we asked for? We have the Federal Reserve for that remember?

Money does not exist, the illusion of money exists in order to create the illusion of DEBT. As long as we owe the bank we have to keep working and be a slave of the system.

When are we going to wake up?

The land on earth has no owners, it was here when each one of us was born, even before man was on this planet it was here and did not belong to anybody so how is it that we now have to pay someone to build a home on a piece of this earth that belongs to no one? I can see if you want to hire someone to build you a house, then you owe him for his labor or if you buy the material from a store for the builder to build you the house. But not for the land that your house sits on.

Finally, taxes, I hear so many people complain about paying taxes and how the national debt is keeping us paying taxes and we are never going to pay those taxes down. No we are not, taxes will be there for us to feel like we have to keep working because it is our American duty to help pay for all the squandering our leaders do with our money. We will never, in the system we live in, stop paying taxes, face it and get over it. The only way is if the 33 decide that money will no longer be used in the world, EVERYONE will work at what we are good at and take turns working at jobs nobody wants to do and in turn we will all have access to all the clothes we need, all the healthy, food we need, all the clean air we can breath, all the clean water we can drink. Travel on vacation to anywhere in the world will be free, the very best health care will be free. Our leaders will not be a few privileged individuals who stay for decades as leaders. They will be chosen by the people. all important decisions will be voted on and not left for the leaders to decide. The Government will be literally run by the people.

Thank you for reading my thoughts.

Mayan2012

Teakai
11th January 2011, 07:56
This is what Gerald Celente says is happening this year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO45VBO6Swo&feature=channel