PDA

View Full Version : No disrespect to atheists...



Jax_realm
21st April 2019, 02:17
..But does their particular belief structure require “explaining away” every single supernatural experience any one in the history of the world has ever had/claimed? That seems like a lot of work and against the numbers...

I know a lot of good hearted people who subscribe to atheistic beliefs and know a large portion of the world identify as atheists. I just don’t understand how they can hold that belief in confidence when near concrete spiritual evidences are available to be observed be it the normalcy of “voodoo spirits” of Haitian towns, “ghost resorts” of Missouri, and seemingly innumerable personal experiences that many of us have. I can understand (it being within the realm of possibility) of supernatural beings representing themselves in various forms though any form would seem to rule out atheism.

Unless I am missing something?Any thoughts?
Thanks

Didgevillage
21st April 2019, 02:56
I suppose Zen Buddhism does not require any God-figure, but it is possible to believe in it, if you so wish.

Religion comes in various disguises: communism is a pseudo-religion. So is modern science, as pointed out by Rupert Sheldrake that it is a belief system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

Atheism is a belief system that just happens to have no specific God-figure.

Rich
21st April 2019, 06:49
Some atheists are open about spirituality I think. An acquaintance of mine for example, was very interested in my "spiritual experience".

greybeard
21st April 2019, 09:51
I suspect atheists are uncomfortable with the thought of being judged on death and maybe sent to hell.
So would I be if it were true.
Would a loving, all forgiving God send His creation to hell?
I dont think so!!!
Could say a lot more but people are entitled to believe what they will.
Chris

.

Didgevillage
21st April 2019, 11:04
Believing in some God(s)/Goddess/Spirit/Great Spirit/Karma/Dharma... is one thing.
Stating it openly is another.

Sunny-side-up
21st April 2019, 11:07
Hi Jax_realm.

Your question hinges on what your definition of the word 'atheist' is, and then what your definition of the word 'God' is?

It's like the subject of 'UFO's' would you mean any plane flying over that you can't see the details of, like what airline own's it.
Would you be meaning a flaying craft made here on earth by earthlings or by ET's.
Then what would you mean by ET's?
ET's as humans not born or living on earth or other species of intelligent life?

Questions can have many different answers if you don't give very specific details.

:sun:

Iceberg
21st April 2019, 11:18
The saying: I'm an atheist. For my opinion is the most arrogant answer that can be said, denying all evidence and signs of creation in an arrogant way. If someone doesn't really believes because it hasn't been shown the truth yet, than the best answer would be, in a careful humble response. That is because once those atheists change to believers in future they need to undo all the mistakes spreaded to others and its an impossible task to contact them all again.

Strat
21st April 2019, 13:10
..But does their particular belief structure require “explaining away” every single supernatural experience any one in the history of the world has ever had/claimed? That seems like a lot of work and against the numbers...

I know a lot of good hearted people who subscribe to atheistic beliefs and know a large portion of the world identify as atheists. I just don’t understand how they can hold that belief in confidence when near concrete spiritual evidences are available to be observed be it the normalcy of “voodoo spirits” of Haitian towns, “ghost resorts” of Missouri, and seemingly innumerable personal experiences that many of us have. I can understand (it being within the realm of possibility) of supernatural beings representing themselves in various forms though any form would seem to rule out atheism.

Unless I am missing something?Any thoughts?
Thanks

I generally don't label what I am whether it be athiest/believer/agnostic/etc but my perspective is I don't explain anything; I admit I only know a small percent of a percent of the grand scheme of things. I don't have some horse in the race of spiritual matters. Another thing is I don't think these things are impossible, I just think that 99% of folks who claim such experiences are jumping to conclusions or are liars.

From my experience its been religious/spiritual folks in general that do the most explaining away. All you have to do is say something along the line of 'because it's gods will' and all arguments afterwards are cut off.

shaberon
21st April 2019, 16:09
There are different sorts of atheists; in the more Zen-like frame of mind, we would call ourselves "non-theists", which is to state that there is a living spirit which is not properly explained by theology because it is material (closer to pantheism), and to also deny dead souls materialistic atheism which explains there is nothing but mechanics in limited states of matter.

The prevalent modern atheism I've seen, states something like "lack of proof". But I've never really known them personally or had them explain the meaning and validity of their belief or non-belief system. There are at least two schools of atheism that are valid in Hinduism; never looked much into those, either. That may seem strange, but, it has atheists, as well as several well-defined schools of theists, and what it does not have, is most of the aberrant doctrines introduced by western theology.

It doesn't seem like atheists have to explain the unknown; it simply lacks an explanation. They may otherwise be moral, useful people.

What is worse is nescience or willful ignorance or a refusal to care. And I think there are a bunch of theists who are really like this and slap a prayer on it once a year to pretend otherwise.

Some of the atheists may be one of the varying degrees of agnostic, from "I don't know" to "it cannot be known". Neither one is necessarily an outright denial of spiritual existence, but, denials would be under the same rug. One can define or defend schools of thought, which itself is fairly useful.

Akasha
21st April 2019, 18:15
..But does their particular belief structure require “explaining away” every single supernatural experience any one in the history of the world has ever had/claimed? That seems like a lot of work and against the numbers...

I know a lot of good hearted people who subscribe to atheistic beliefs and know a large portion of the world identify as atheists. I just don’t understand how they can hold that belief in confidence when near concrete spiritual evidences are available to be observed be it the normalcy of “voodoo spirits” of Haitian towns, “ghost resorts” of Missouri, and seemingly innumerable personal experiences that many of us have. I can understand (it being within the realm of possibility) of supernatural beings representing themselves in various forms though any form would seem to rule out atheism.

Unless I am missing something?Any thoughts?
Thanks

As I understand it, atheism is simply a lack of belief, not a "belief structure". It is the willingness to say, at best, I don't know, until evidence comes along to the contrary.
The burden of proof lies with the believers, and as of yet, anecdotes aside, no-one has proved god. Sure, folk have reported this and that but after personally having had many psychedelic experiences with LSD, psilocybin and DMT juxtaposed with being "filled with the holy spirit" in my younger days, I can now safely say that I don't know............at best.

No disrespect taken BTW :)

Jax_realm
22nd April 2019, 01:59
I suspect atheists are uncomfortable with the thought of being judged on death and maybe sent to hell.
So would I be if it were true.
Would a loving, all forgiving God send His creation to hell?
I dont think so!!!
Could say a lot more but people are entitled to believe what they will.
Chris

.
Haha no kidding, thankfully the eternal hell doctrine isn’t held as truth by all Christian denominations. I personally consider that teaching as illogical (and damaging) as anything I’ve ever heard.

Jax_realm
22nd April 2019, 02:23
..But does their particular belief structure require “explaining away” every single supernatural experience any one in the history of the world has ever had/claimed? That seems like a lot of work and against the numbers...

I know a lot of good hearted people who subscribe to atheistic beliefs and know a large portion of the world identify as atheists. I just don’t understand how they can hold that belief in confidence when near concrete spiritual evidences are available to be observed be it the normalcy of “voodoo spirits” of Haitian towns, “ghost resorts” of Missouri, and seemingly innumerable personal experiences that many of us have. I can understand (it being within the realm of possibility) of supernatural beings representing themselves in various forms though any form would seem to rule out atheism.

Unless I am missing something?Any thoughts?
Thanks

As I understand it, atheism is simply a lack of belief, not a "belief structure". It is the willingness to say, at best, I don't know, until evidence comes along to the contrary.
The burden of proof lies with the believers, and as of yet, anecdotes aside, no-one has proved god. Sure, folk have reported this and that but after personally having had many psychedelic experiences with LSD, psilocybin and DMT juxtaposed with being "filled with the holy spirit" in my younger days, I can now safely say that I don't know............at best.

No disrespect taken BTW :)

Thanks, I can see your point of view as making sense: Atheism is often held passively, not to say that it’s believers are weak, rather that they tend to focus on other things in life and often are just lacking a convincing reason to believe. Athesim seeking to explain everything would definitely be the head scratcher (for me).

I also appreciate the mention of beliefs like Zen Buddhism etc. not necessarily being separate from atheism due to their lack Theistic elements. The definition of atheism is definitely important here.

This thread has given me a lot of food for thought, thank you very much everyone!

Merry Mom
22nd April 2019, 14:22
The definition is important, as many have stated here. I would think that many calling themselves atheists are actually agnostics or anti-theists. It would seem that a true atheist would have no need to fight against theists, as that would be a counterproductive action in an ultra-rational universe where the physical reality rules. The only way I could see the pop culture "atheists" such as Richard Dawkins having a logical reason to attack theists in the way that they do would be if they lived in a society truly ruled by religion, such as under the Taliban. Paradoxically if they did so, they would soon be executed by that society. Therefore, the purpose of selling books to make money is in itself valuable to an atheist, but it starts to turn atheism itself into a belief system (thus becoming anti-theism).

Justplain
22nd April 2019, 15:55
I have a friend who said there is no evidence of an afterlife, brushing off the university of virginia research on reincarnation. When I said my aunt saw my grandmother's spirit after the latter passed away, he called her crazy. So, I said that radio works on principles we can't see, and by analogy the same can be for the spirit world. Also, I pointed out that he had taken pictures of ufo's above his house, and that just because we don't know how it works doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. He didn't have a response to these points.

petra
22nd April 2019, 17:19
There's many kinds of athiests. I was surprised to find out there's such a thing as "agnostic athiest" !

As for the ones who just "explain away" the paranormal - I used to be one of those. It wasn't because I was an athiest though, it was because I never had a single creepy paranormal thing happen in my entire lifetime, and so I concluded these people were probably just watching too much TV.

Meanwhile, I was sitting around getting angry about stuff like hypnotism and exorcism. "Something's obviously wrong here. Is everyone BLIND?". It never really occurred to me, that those two things link into the "paranormal".

In order to keep from getting frustrated with athiests, I try to "put myself in their shoes". I imagine that maybe they are actually in a place where there isn't a God, or worse - where the "God" is really mean.

I've given a bit of thought to "How do we know God isn't evil?"

That's a tough one, but I was able to answer it. For me, I know God isn't evil because if he were, I'd be evil too (and I'm not) :)

petra
22nd April 2019, 17:42
Believing in some God(s)/Goddess/Spirit/Great Spirit/Karma/Dharma... is one thing.
Stating it openly is another.

Not sure what you're getting at here, but it implies someone being embarrassed by their own beliefs.
If anyone is ashamed of what they believe, perhaps it's time to re-think things.

Didgevillage
22nd April 2019, 18:50
If someone believes in something which is not anthropomorphic , be it Tao or the Sun, why should it be shameful and embarrassing?

The stronger the belief, the less he will speak about it.