View Full Version : 'Zeitgeist: The Movie' influenced the AZ shooter

12th January 2011, 16:58
Check out this ABC piece on the AZ gunman's influences.

He was off the grid, politically, emotionally and spiritually.

Watch the video piece.


12th January 2011, 18:50
We live in a very sick culture. It is no surprise that some individuals are wholly incapable of dealing with it.

When something bad happens we need to find a villain. Something to attack and change so that we can feel like we have "done something".

Basic human psychology.

People should focus on why, after so many warnings on this man's mental state, our society failed to provide him the support he so verily needed. But people are not interested in going there, because that would bring up too many difficult subjects.

Better to focus on a villain that is shallow and easy to address. This man also stated he was a fan of Hitler's Writings. The next thing you know people will be debating banning access to those writings. Anything to avoid addressing the real problems.

12th January 2011, 19:13
Check out this ABC piece on the AZ gunman's influences.

He was off the grid, politically, emotionally and spiritually.

Watch the video piece.


I'd like to encourage you to go a bit deeper with this, Jimmer. There is an effort by the mainstream media to frame this in a way that suits their agenda.


Also if you'd like to go even deeper, google Loughner's name with MK-Ultra and consider his "missing accomplice" who seems to be impossible to find. Even with all the cameras that are present, we can't seem to ID the man... Hmmm. Can you say.. handler?


DELTA. This is known as "killer" programming, originally developed for training special agents or elite soldiers (i.e. Delta Force, First Earth Battalion, Mossad, etc.) in covert operations. Optimal adrenal output and controlled aggression is evident. Subjects are devoid of fear; very systematic in carrying out their assignment. Self-destruct or suicide instructions are layered in at this level.

12th January 2011, 19:18
I agree with you, Hiram.
Years ago, with so many signal of mental problems, the guy would have been provided 'involuntarily' help.
Today, it's almost impossible to do anything until a tragedy happens.
Yet, anywhere along the line, authorities could have imposed a 72 hour mental evaluation to see what was going on with him, but instead, looked the other way.
He is a bad machine that needed help and received none.

12th January 2011, 19:43
The mainstream media framing?
The specific piece I posted is an interview with the shooter's close friend.
The info in the video isn't framed by the media, as much as it's factual insights from a close personal, horrified friend - from his own mouth.
It's not an editorial, it's reportage.
Facts are facts, aren't they?
And are you saying that this deranged soul is part of MKULTRA? Really?

12th January 2011, 19:55
The mainstream media framing?
The specific piece I posted is an interview with the shooter's close friend.
The info in the video isn't framed by the media, as much as it's factual insights from a close personal, horrified friend - from his own mouth.
It's not an editorial, it's reportage.
Facts are facts, aren't they?
And are you saying that this deranged soul is part of MKULTRA? Really?

My concern was that the title of your thread and the media onslaught which includes ABC News paints a picture of a person who's mind has been warped by alternative media. The word frame in this case is being used thusly:

a basic structure that underlies or supports a system, concept, or text : the establishment of conditions provides a frame for interpretation.

Please understand that I say what I mean. If I was under the impression that there was no doubt he is a Manchurian Candidate I would have said so. I was remarking that the circumstances seem very suspicious to me. I also wanted to point out there are areas you may not be considering because of your seeming unfamiliarity with this material. Given the fingerprints of Monarch in past incidents we shouldn't rule this out.

PS I didn't mention I found the video you posted deeply moving and saddening. Sorry that I neglected to say this.

12th January 2011, 20:48
I agree the whole thing is very sad.
And I did review your links.
This incident had nothing to do with ideology or for that matter super secret gov't.
My big take from the video is: being rebuked + salvia + insolation + radicalism = very bad things
We're all trying to understand how an individual could go so far off the reservation.
I think the interview is very enlightening.

12th January 2011, 21:21
As sad as the case is, from all angles, there seems now to be the potential of the mainstream media to use this incident and Loughner's 'alternative community' influence (Zeitgeist and his participation on ATS) as a smear campaign.

For example, MSM may relay these things to equate use of shamanic plants (salvia) with deranged behaviour leading to killing, or relate things like Zeitgeist (an archetypal truthseeker's doorway) could be used to smear in the same way. It's just like in the 60s how gradually psychedelic substances were smeared because of a few events which were inflated by MSM. Whether this is deliberate (planned) or opportunistic, it still smacks of potential smear campaigns to me (and that's not even touching the whole gun/constitution aspect of all of this). Through history, things which have enormous potential to become doorways to truthseeking have always been smeared somehow whether deliberately planned or opportunistic. Other much older examples: How the Christians burned the 'pagan' Royal Library of Alexandria or how the Catholics invaded mesoamerica and destroyed almost entirely the knowledge of the Maya, Aztec, etc.

Regarding Loughner's mental state, he was definitely bent. One must ask, did he become like this on his own, or was he somehow manipulated into this state via the use of mind control.

I feel for Loughner's ex-friend who said he wished he could have helped and all those who have been effected by this incident.

12th January 2011, 21:39
The Safeway at which the event occurred is blocks from my Father's Home. I have personally bought the fixings for Nachos at that very Safeway just a couple of weeks ago.

(For the record I do not live in Tucson, but was visiting)

The entire situation is very, very sad. A Compassionate culture recognizes the suffering of its members when they are very young, and it steps in to ensure the member has all the support and fellowship that member needs. A dispassionate culture only punishes, once things have gone wrong.

Whether due to our media, our diet, or our technology, we have left compassion and thoughtfulness by the wayside.

Until this is remedied, I'm afraid this sort of thing will happen with ever-more frequency.

12th January 2011, 22:05
Hiram , while your post about this kid falling through the cracks is admirable, it also is walking a fine line about freedom. Being taken off the street for an involuntary evaluation as another poster suggested leads to the obvious question; Who is going to do the evaluating and and what criteria is going to be used for the snitching. It kind of smacks of Nazi Germany tactics of informing on your neighbors. I know that is not what you intended but , nevertheless that is the logical extension of the premise taken to the nth degree. The parents probably are the ones that should have that responsibility, but one of his friends said his father was a drunk. This kid was just a prime target for a psy-op.

12th January 2011, 22:18
Psy-op is a possibility--I can't argue that he was specifically vulnerable to this. I agree.

I think you make a good point about "fine-line's". When we have been raised in a culture where we cannot place our trust in established institutions---trust that they will not abuse authority once it is given to them---it is only natural to be skeptical about the sort of compassionate culture I am describing. How would this work?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, that has been one of my mantras on the board since the very beginning. It is a true axiom. Unfortunately once the philosophy is put into practice, you find yourself intensely skeptical of ANY proposed good intentions....for you just assume (rightfully and historically so) that these good intentions will be put to ill-use sometime in the future. So you become paralyzed. Unable to do a thing. I have a personal insight into this having worked in mental health for some time (I am no longer a mental Health professional).

So thank you plumr....you are absolutely right. The sentiment is in the right place...but our own sentiment can destroy us, and we should be ever vigilant against such a thing.

I do believe there is such a thing as an active, courageous, compassionate culture. We, unfortunately, do not have it.

13th January 2011, 14:59
Your point Hiram is absolutely right. The context of my post is based in today's reality. In the past we were and hopefully in the future I pray we can become the solidly compassionate people that would automatically respond in the manner you described. In truth that change needs to begin in everyone. Maybe that is what the coming vibrational changes in the universe will bring us.

13th January 2011, 15:27
Removal of posts

Fred Steeves
13th January 2011, 17:39
I'm VERY suspicious of the whole deal. The main talk is speech, guns, and forced psychiatric detainment.

GUNS: btw I am a gun owner. We know from history one of the main things a tyranny wanna be needs is to get rid of those pesky guns. How inconvenient for an emerging police state.

SPEECH: A tyranny cannot have people expressing intelligent, well thought out ideas to the contrary of their intentions. We MUST now be VERY careful of what we say.

MENTAL ILLNESS: People who tend to resonate with the premise of Zeitgeist and similar information, a.k.a. Project Avalon, David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Oathkeepers and such, could potentially be considered mentally ill in need of "help"...They should be considered dangerous...
As a side note to this, we would do well to not forget what Uncle Joe Stalin said about the danger of ideas: " Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why would we let them have ideas"?

This whole thing just reeks of David Icke's " PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION".

Wonder why no one in mainstream media seems to be commenting on these delightful expressions of love and understanding?

Fred S.



[/COLOR]Don't know why the vids. didn't post.....Anyone?

13th January 2011, 18:14
From: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=310494



It has come to my attention that various mainstream news organizations are beginning to run an association between my 2007 performance piece/film, “Zeitgeist: The Movie” and the tragic murders conducted by an extremely troubled young man in Tucson, Arizona. They are also slowly beginning to bleed the obvious line between my 2007 documentary work, my film series as a whole and The Zeitgeist Movement, which I am the founder. Frankly, I find this isolating, growing association tremendously irresponsible on the part of ABC, NBC and their affiliates - further reflecting the disingenuous nature of the America Media Establishment today.

It appears to have begun with a comment on NBC news referencing my film along with other “influential” films as well, such as Richard Kelly's film “Donnie Darko” and then spreading to ABC News where it singled out "Zeitgeist: The Movie" and the Series itself, stating:

“Osler pointed to an online documentary series called "Zeitgeist" as a possible influence on the man.
The series rails on currency-based economics.
"I really think that this 'Zeitgeist' documentary had a profound impact on Jared's mindset and how he viewed that world that he lives in," Osler said.”


When we reflect on the history of seemingly random violence or other forms of highly offensive, irrational, aberrant behavior, we see a common pattern of reaction from the public and media in their attempt to explain such extreme acts. Rather than deeply examining the Bio-Psycho-Social nature of human social development and the vast spectrum of influences that create and morph each of us in unique and sometimes detrimental ways, they take the easy way out. The first thing they do is simply ignore all modern scientific, social understandings of what generates human motivation in both positive and negative regard, for to do so can only call into question the social system itself and hence the “zeitgeist” (meaning: spirit/intellectual climate of the time/culture) at large.

Generally speaking, it is historically accurate to say that the Mainstream Media simply isn't in the business of challenging the Status Quo. The limits of debate are firmly set. Virtually all ideas, persons or groups who have succeeded in changing the world for the better, later to be hailed as heros in the public mind, started out being condemned by those in the Mainstream Media who latch on to the dominant world view of the time. Even Martin Luther King Jr., a peaceful, loving, wonder of a man who contributed more to our social progress than likely any humanitarian in the US history, was followed by the CIA and publicly humiliated as a “Communist” which he even had to defend in front of a Congressional Committee. In fact, you can rest assured that if King were alive in the current paradigm today and seeking an equal form of justice - he would be given the name: “Terrorist”.

So, again, rather than taking the scientific view, the Mainstream Media often seeks out or implies one point of blame and runs with it. After all, it is much easier, presentable and more simplistic for the public to think that the troubling reality of seemingly random acts of mass murder is the result of a “singular influence” and hence the logic goes that if that one influence is removed, then the world will be back in balance. This gives the public a false resolve and position of focus in an otherwise ambiguous, complex world of social and biological influences. And as far as the scapegoat itself, very often any group, media or dataset that is counter-culture or even hints at wishing to challenge the status quo, is a magnet for such blame.

For example, musical groups of a counter-culture nature have been a favorite scapegoat for acts of murder/violence historically. In 1990, the rock band Judas Priest was actually taken to court for their “role” in the self-inflicted gunshot wounds in 1985 of 20-year old James Vance and 18-year old Raymond Belknap in Reno, Nevada. In 2008, the band Slipknot was publicly tied/blamed to a high-school murder in South Africa. Even the Beatles song “Helter-skelter” was associated to the murders incited by Charles Manson. It goes on and on... and, frankly, it's simply pathetic - avoiding the true nature of the problem - which is the Socio-Economic Environment itself.

Make no mistake: The Social System is to blame for the rampage of Jared Loughner – not some famous online documentary which is known as the most viewed documentary of all time in internet history. Are the other 200 million people who have seen the film also preparing for murder sprees? I think not.

In my new film: "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward", I feature a prominent Harvard Criminal Psychologist by the name of Dr. James Gilligan who headed the Centre for the Study of Violence at Harvard Medical School for many years. In his life work of personally engaging the most dangerous, violent offenders the US system produces, he found some basic trends. The most common is the social issue of “shame”. Our socio-economic system inherently breeds social division and there is a natural demeaning of others generated as a result. It is a scientific fact that mass murderers and those who many just dismiss as “evil” today, are the product of years of being shamed, humiliated and demeaned. Their acts of violence is a reaction from these highly oppressive feelings and the real resolve to such acts can only come from removing the real source of such emotional hurt. You will notice that most other countries don't come close to the level of violence we see in the United States. The US is the capital of violence with 30-300 times more acts of violence than any other country. We have produced more serial killers in America than all other countries combined. Why? You will notice the Mainstream never asks this question.

If anyone would like to understand why more and more people in the modern world end up like Jared Loughner and why these patterns are only going to get worse as time goes on in this system, I suggest the book “Violence” by Harvard Criminal Psychologist Dr. Gilligan.

In conclusion, let it be stated that the Zeitgeist Film Series is about critical thought regarding various social issues which challenge many erroneous notions held as fact in the modern culture. It also explicitly promotes non-violence, human unity and prosperous human development based on truth and science.

Anyone who wishes to really understand the works can view them for free online at zeitgeistmovie.com and my new film, which will detail how a new, humane social system can work, will be in 315 theaters in 60 countries and 30 languages starting Jan 15th 2011. www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com

I am also in contact with my legal team and considering legal action against ABC.

-Peter Joseph

Source: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=310494

13th January 2011, 18:58
Removal of posts

13th January 2011, 19:46
well anyone in advertisement knows any exposure is good...

what do you think other kids are doing right now that just heard Zeitgeist for the first time?

how many people are asking themselves what alternative media means? maybe flipping from MSNBC to CNN for a change...

no, most people are stumbling on the meaning for the very first time...

gun purchases of soon to be controlled weapons are up 40% in Arizona since the shooting...

13th January 2011, 22:46
Removal of posts

13th January 2011, 23:17
Have a look at this video from a MKULTRA survivor :


I was on this thread earlier watching swerdlow video, was about half way threw power went off in whole house for five minutues, powered back up and logged on to my side of the computer( my mother has other side) and i could not load avalon or camelot,( i tryed 5 other sites all loaded rapidly) logged out and switched to mom's and loaded instantly, now the links is gone....... It was a great video and I agree that this just reakes a hit like duncan said. Just look at the before and after pics floating around, looks like more than just depression to me.

And we know that the PTB target these kind of mentally unbalanced people for these Manchurian candidate position's, like the one's used with JFK, RFK etc.
And obviously a smear campaign that has been getting revved up for sometime, the militia incident a year or so ago was probly part of same campaign but was poorly executed

Truth Nectar

16th January 2011, 17:42
A message from Peter Joseph quoted from his post (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=229&id=311066#311066) on The Zeitgeist Movement forum:

Those that have listened to my radio shows might have remembered me commenting many times on the fact that when it came to attacks we have experienced in the past: "we haven't seen anything yet".

The bored, petty bloggers and various hatefilled individuals who have wasted their time creating anti-z/anti-peter joseph sites and videos are about to be royally trumped by a mainstream media onslaught that will bring the definition of attack/propaganda into a whole new light.

I have been contacted by CNN, NBC, FOX, ABC, AP, Yahoo! and many national/local/international news agencies regarding the comment by Zack Osler referencing a TWO YEAR OLD association of my first film and Jared Loughner. The parroting of this painfully unscientific and idiotic association has resonated across all mainstream outlets. As of now, I am not engaging them for I want the new film to be released before anything.

After the film is released, I have a feeling we are going to see a huge backlash. The stage has been set... and I want all members to hold strong. Don't let any of this get to you. This is exactly what I have been expecting with regard to the media introduction of TZM and it is long overdue. If it wasn't the AZ shootings it would have been another scapegoat. Just as Wikileaks is now associated with a "rapist"- the Z films and hence the Movement/myself are going to be publicly pegged to "mass murder". This is how the game works and I plan to do a radio show on the history of propaganda in the near future to discuss this historical phenomenon.

After the release, I am going to established a large PR campaign for all press interactions from the Movement and TZM is going to explode with interest.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

17th January 2011, 13:42
Here is another article about this issue: what I really find interesting here are the various comments.
Someone called it "massacre baiting".