View Full Version : An open letter to conservative, libertarian, alternative researchers in the US

27th January 2011, 01:35
Hello brothers and sisters,
I fancy myself as somewhat of a conservative. A libertarian would be more specific although I don't like labels. I don't like central banking. I want to end the federal reserve. I think the US should stop policing the world and bring our troops home so we can stop killing people in the Middle East and stop losing our own troops in this senseless conflict which is supposed to have something to do with the attacks on 9/11 but, in my opinion, does not. I think we should stop spending so much tax payer money on black budget operations (for those who don't know "black" is a term used in the intelligence community meaning secret or classified) and our military apparatus. I think that if the US government wants to be big in size, have a large budget and not listen to the will of the people (like in the example of the unpopular war in the Middle East,) then it should not tax the people and should be made to find alternative forms of revenue (unlikely, I know.) I think that we, as a nation, should mind our own business, stay out of the affairs of other nations, and try to make our own country a place where the utmost freedom for the individual is prioritized.
Ok, all that being said, I understand that those are fairly "conservative" views. Although I know that the left/right paradigm is a fallacy, I use these terms because they are convenient for making the point I am trying to make. So, fellow like-minded people, or libertarians, or whatever I think it is unfair to illegal immigrants, and detrimental to the libertarian movement to alienate illegal immigrants, from Mexico or anywhere else, by demanding stricter border control policies or stricter deportation policies. I am addressing conservatives/libertarians because I have found a large percentage of them favor stricter immigration policies.
First I will go over why I think it is unfair. I believe it is unfair because I believe that most of us would do almost anything to take care of our families, feed our children, and/or remove them from violent situations. They are only doing what most of us would do in their situation regardless of what the law says. I think it is unfair for us to judge them for coming to the US when we have no idea how unbearable their situation is. I also think it is hypocritical because MOST AMERICANíS ANCESTORS WERE IMMIGRANTS, ILLEGAL OR NOT. Ok, that is why I think it is unfair, sorry for making that part so brief, the reasons are more complex, but the bulk of what I want to get into will be in the "why it is detrimental to the movement" part which will be longer.
I think this stance of demanding stricter border control policy is detrimental to the libertarian movement because it alienates this growing demographic from views of:
- Maximum freedom for the individual
-Small/ manageable government
-Non-interventionist foreign policy
-Congressional issuance of currency (as the constitution mandates)
-Currency backed by something inherently valuable (like gold)
Ok, any more on the list would be specific redundancies which are not necessary. Do you guys see where Iím trying to go with this? Instead of alienating these people, we could utilize them for a mutually beneficial purpose. If the entire illegal immigrant population in the US (sorry, have to keep specifying that because I know this is a multi-national forum) started demanding more personal freedoms, with the support of the entire libertarian movement, there would be little that could stand in our way! Maybe we could get the Patriot Act repealed overnight! And maybe Iím being overly optimistic or ambitious haha. But donít you guys think it would make a huge difference in how powerful the libertarian movement is? Hooray for civil liberties! Hooray for other cultures coming to the United States! Hooray for diversity! Hell, most of our ancestors came from other countries. The ancestry of most Americans is not native to this land. I believe that no matter how our population grows, with a little unity we could make it sustainable, peaceful and comfortable enough for all of us, immigrants included. I truly believe that.
-advocating unity,

27th January 2011, 03:43
This video starts out a little slowly but gives a fairly clear picture of what will happen.


27th January 2011, 05:02
This video starts out a little slowly but gives a fairly clear picture of what will happen.


Hey thanks for the input. i apreciate views from all sides of this debate. Overpopulation of the US might be a problem but i feel its a problem that we can handle with rationality and solidarity. The US doesnt have to solve the global poverty issue on its own, but we can set a precedent by helping our geographical neighbors and maybe other more well off countries will do the same. i believe we have more than enough resources in this country, even with our steady increase in population, to make sure all our citizens are taken care of. we just need the right change in consciousness and the right strategy. My opinion.
-respectfully AIJ

27th January 2011, 05:37
Agree with most of what you've stated except for the "Illegal Immigrants" issue. That word alone "Illegal" would tell you that it/they are in the wrong, I am a first generation born citizen of the U.S, my parents are from Mexico but they did it "legally". Several of my family served in the military because we love this country. Just because someone wants to make a better life for themselves doesn't give them the right to break laws - hey I don't have food so might as well rob a bank! Now that's in line to your way of thinking, it's OK to break laws as long as I am trying to better my situation ( I know you do not believe this is right but it is a flaw in my opinion in your ideology just by the way you stated your defense of unfairness).

Also think of the U.S as your house - you have a family and a job and all of a suddenly people overnight camp out in your house eating your food having babies in your house and "Legally" the barbies are your responsibility! You must provide them medical care, food and a education, how long do you think you would last financially?
That is what the U.S is going through, we can not meet all the floods of "illegal" people coming in. Coverage that is supposed to be for citizens of our country, this will not work financially, this is part of the reason for laws, census, and proper immigration.

No one I know is against immigration but we are against Illegal immigration, work hard try to improve your situation; no good ever comes from doing things the wrong way or the way that hurts others. You have a door at your residence for protection from cold, heat, also to keep people from just walking in. Makes a lot of sense to have doors - gates - people guarding this great country that needs much improvement but non the less our home!


27th January 2011, 12:30
I agree with you Pablo. I'm 3rd generation on my dads side. Grandparents came over on a boat from Italy(with a bunch of little kids in tow lol). I don't have any problems at all with legal immigration, most of us wouldn't be here without it. I think if all the services provided (health care, food stamps, whatever assistance they need because they are mostly low income) is a great incentive to come. I also agree with Alternative that it's a no brainer if you are trying to provide a better life for your family, I don't blame them for coming here. I don't think it's right but I understand. Not everyone is as honorable as your parents Pablo and sometimes I'm sure it's just pure desperation on the parts of some individuals. I think the laws about the freebies and "help" should be changed in order to somewhat stem the tide. And my grandparents were proud to be Americans. Italian Americans, but Americans none the less. They made their kids speak American and teach it to them. Their ties to Italy became more of a cultural thing than a citizenship thing. No one should have to give up their heritage but it should be just that, heritage. Almost every large city has China towns, German neighborhoods, Korean villages, Middle Eastern areas etc. You get the picture. But most of these people are proud to be here, in America and they embrace our culture and way of life as their own.

27th January 2011, 12:52
Thanks for the responses guys! i apreciate all the input. very tought provoking. i'll respond to specific points made when i have more time. lovin the debate. peace all!

27th January 2011, 17:53
Very well put Pablo. Very thought provoking. I still disagree though. One thing that i would like people to think about is the question "do we, as americans, really have the right to mandate what is lawful and what isnt, on the immigration issue, when we stole this land from others and it is not rightfully ours in the first place?" Thanks for the response peg226. i hope we can debate this a little more because i find it helpful to hear what the other side of the argument has to say.
-hoping for the unification of all man kind,