PDA

View Full Version : A look beneath the Holocaust Propaganda ...



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Teakai
28th January 2011, 01:27
I’ve been reading about the holocaust and how there are those who believe that the story we’ve been told about it is a great deal of public relations propaganda in order to influence the minds of people to think a particular way.

Now, I’m not for a minute saying that utterly terrible things which ought never to have happened, happened during WWll.
And are still happening today to other people in other countries – but for some reason that pales in significance in people’s minds in comparison to that of ‘the holocaust’.

However, looking beyond the human tragedy of it, the question arises: - was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?

The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
Great Britian wanted US support during WWll, so a deal was done that Great Britian would hand over a chunk of Palestine (now considerably grown and increasingly growing ) if the US could be inspired to join – bring on p*ssing off the Japanese and thereby instigating the attack on Pearl Harbour.

All these moves, and many more, have been chess piece moves taking place under the cover of using human pawns in order to strategically place the pieces to bring about the globalist ‘nwo’ agenda.

It is illegal in certain countries to be a holocaust denier, and even people in countries where it isn’t have been so brainwashed by the propaganda they are unable to discuss the situation with an open mind and an opinion not shrouded by emotion.
Which is an absolute shame, for while it remains an un-investigated and unquestioned event the Jewish people will remain sacrificial lambs to the Zionist movement to attain total control over the world and humanity.

And, while we allow the cockroaches to remain hiding under the cover of Holocaust guilt and censorship they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing to make the world a place that none of us want to live in.

Have at it.

slvrfx
28th January 2011, 01:47
Wow, did you open up a can of worms or what.

This is one area, unfortunately, people are so afraid to express any opinion on, lest the 'hounds-of-hell' pursue them.

I took a higher level English class, that was all about the Gypsies. When some of the pieces were starting to click, I began to ask questions...

The woman Prof. was a Romanian whose father had Gypsy Blood (note), and admittedly was teaching it to discover more about that aspect of her own life.

When I began to bring up some obvious facts, I was told bluntly, that this was a public University and we weren't at liberty to discuss 'certain things'.


My thought...........if ANYTHING is being kept under such impenetrable wraps, SOMETHING MUST BE UP.

People who don't lie, are not afraid when everything's revealed.

That's what is so great about the truth. You can't hide it under a bushel. Eventually it'll explode in the faces of the liars/manipulators.

I have no doubt that one day everything will be revealed.

People need to consider now, where they will be found standing.

Teakai
28th January 2011, 01:56
Wow, did you open up a can of worms or what.

This is one area, unfortunately, people are so afraid to express any opinion on, lest the 'hounds-of-hell' pursue them.

I took a higher level English class, that was all about the Gypsies. When some of the pieces were starting to click, I began to ask questions...

The woman Prof. was a Romanian whose father had Gypsy Blood (note), and admittedly was teaching it to discover more about that aspect of her own life.

When I began to bring up some obvious facts, I was told bluntly, that this was a public University and we weren't at liberty to discuss 'certain things'.


My thought...........if ANYTHING is being kept under such impenetrable wraps, SOMETHING MUST BE UP.

People who don't lie, are not afraid when everything's revealed.

That's what is so great about the truth. You can't hide it under a bushel. Eventually it'll explode in the faces of the liars/manipulators.

I have no doubt that one day everything will be revealed.

People need to consider now, where they will be found standing.

Hi slvrfx, I figure if we don't open those worms, we'll be joining them :)

It is seriously crazy how this topic is thought to be untouchable. That is extreme mind control, and if people can't step out of that box, then they choose to stay in the box.
In which case they can hardly complain about the way the world is going.

"sure, I want to save the world - but let's not do the holocaust, OK?"

unplugged
28th January 2011, 02:29
Now, to add another wrinkle to your thread ...

I find it very interesting that so very much is made of the inhumanity of Hitler and his minions regarding the disgraceful treatment of Jews. And yes, it was a decidedly crazed, amazingly coordinated campaign of extermination. However, the most Jewish deaths ever attributed to this sad chapter in German history is around 6 million. What is seldom mentioned is the 20+ million Russians who perished in WW2. 20+ million is an awfully large number of Russian dead. I'm sure there are millions more dead when you toss in all allied nations' resistance to Hitler and Nazism.

You ask "was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?" I'd have to say yes, it was. One simply has to observe what has happened around the planet since WW2 to see the fruit of the corrupted tree. The Palestinians, unfortunately, seem to have gotten the rawest deal of all, having been turned into second-class citizens in their own country.

Lots of the worst of human nature was exposed in WW2. The only ones who have seemingly managed to do really well as a result of it are the Zionists. So YES, it was an orchestrated plan to get the NWO up and running at full steam.

Makes me wish that Michael Moore would issue SICKO II, this time focused on all those SICKOS who have orchestrated their sick agenda at sickening pace since the Nazis transitioned out of Germany to American (Project Paperclip) and Argentina. And it would be dangerous in the extreme to look past all the Zionists who have taken up hidden (and overt) residence in the Halls of Putrid Power since Kissinger.

jorr lundstrom
28th January 2011, 02:47
If lying is your lifestyle you have to have a very wellfunctioning memory, because you gotta remember wot you say all the time.
I you tell the truth you can get away with a rather bad memory, because you can just open your mouth and speak, much easier. LOL

Teakai
28th January 2011, 02:49
I do very much agree with all you're saying, Unplugged.
From what I've read, this doesn't even fall on Hitler's shoulders alone - like Obama, or like Bush, or like any governmental frontline crony - he was merely the front puppet through which it was all carried out.

It seems very clear to me that humanity is simply the pawn pieces in all this - and until we are ALL aware of how we are being used and what we are being used for we will continue to be willing mules for the propoganda war machine.

It seems that WWll was really when things started to take on a snowball effect in regard to mind control methods and societal subversion.

3optic
28th January 2011, 03:04
I took a higher level English class, that was all about the Gypsies. When some of the pieces were starting to click, I began to ask questions...

The woman Prof. was a Romanian whose father had Gypsy Blood (note), and admittedly was teaching it to discover more about that aspect of her own life.

When I began to bring up some obvious facts, I was told bluntly, that this was a public University and we weren't at liberty to discuss 'certain things'.


My thought...........if ANYTHING is being kept under such impenetrable wraps, SOMETHING MUST BE UP.


I'm curious to know what you think her candid take on the subject matter would have been, especially given her back ground.

Paul
28th January 2011, 03:23
It seems that many crimes, large and small, have an element of control through shame. Be it child molestation or mass genocide, the perpetrators often engage others in order to control them through the shame of presumed guilt in the deed.

My working hypothesis in the case of the Holocaust is that it is exaggerated and misrepresented, in order to provide such a lever of shame control.

slvrfx
28th January 2011, 04:24
I'm curious to know what you think her candid take on the subject matter would have been, especially given her back ground.

Her face turned white. She got REAL serious.

She wasn't tenured so probably a bit worried.

Nipped it in the bud, she did, she did.

Another English class I took was on Vampires, taught by a man from Romania. He debunked, with proof, those vampire tales. (Nice to hear from the 'other', yes?)

Very cool because I already had an understanding about who they really were and how they were defamed.

It fits in with Bloodline.

(Read Laurence Gardner books.)

jorr lundstrom
29th January 2011, 16:21
The jews has always wanted to be seen as the persued tribe. The holocoust is just a handy alibi.
During the same time and in the same camps were also many thousand jypsies, mentally disordered germans and many from the occupied contries. You never hear about them.
No the jews have exclusive right to exploit this tragedy. So now they have all rights to harass their neighbors in eternity,
which they probably had done without the holocoust too. LOL But its worse, they are also God´s choosen tribe.
This give them a lot of rights too.
Never give a whip to one who has been whipped.

Arrowwind
29th January 2011, 16:42
The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
\.

This is the nasty little fact that made me turn away from the Alice Bailey material long ago. The Bailey material was a big supporter of the UN, and how the UN was going to save the world.

Arrowwind
29th January 2011, 16:50
I think that if you go to the National Holacost museum you will not find that all the other religions or types of people that were killed during the holocost do not go unmentioned.

Speilburg has made it a point in his carrier to address the slaughter of many different groups of people, for instance his movie Amistad, and he did also cover Native American Repression and slaughter too in the Movie "Into The West"

Please always remember that there are Jews and then their are Zionists... and never the twain shall meet in theology and principle.

iceni tribe
29th January 2011, 16:52
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/dd395-Zyklonsite.jpg

iceni tribe
29th January 2011, 16:55
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/dd395-freesite.jpg

Bryn ap Gwilym
29th January 2011, 17:16
What is ironic is the jews were not the Israelites but only about 19 small tribes in the far south. The Israelites were the Omrides, today's Cymry (Welsh). They were the advance race which is inscribed on the black obelisk, Moabite stone, royal inscription of Sargon II of Assyria, Behistun Rock etc etc. 10x millions have been raped, tortured & murdered over the years with hardly a single reference to this genocide can be found in modern zion/jew english literature. History was rewritten by many, King James, the illuminati, Oxford Uni & the American congress to name just a few. The holocaust is nothing more than zion propaganda. along with jewish so called history resulting in covering up an ancient royal bloodline & replacing it with the frauds we know today.
The truth preaches are also guilty of spreading this lie. Why? You decide!
The Cymry are still fighting the war machine on a daily base now while the rest of the world sleeps in its brainwashed english indoctrinated slumber.
The gypsies are also of Cymry descent.

Nothing is as it seems.

Lost Soul
29th January 2011, 17:40
There's too much evidence to deny that the holocaust did not exist. Read the memoirs or letters of American GIs who stumbled into the camps. One group of GIs round up about twenty prison guards and Waffen SS and shot them all. Can't say I blame them for that, but today we would have tried those (outraged) GIs with war crimes.

I read somewhere that the purpose of WW II was to have a holocaust so that a Jewish state may be created in the Middle East and in so doing, destabilize that region.

Fred259
29th January 2011, 17:42
[QUOTE]My working hypothesis in the case of the Holocaust is that it is exaggerated and misrepresented, in order to provide such a lever of shame control

Grossly exaggerated and out of all proportion.

Fred259
29th January 2011, 18:01
What is ironic is the jews were not the Israelites but only about 19 small tribes in the far south. The Israelites were the Omrides, today's Cymry (Welsh). They were the advance race which is inscribed on the black obelisk, Moabite stone, royal inscription of Sargon II of Assyria, Behistun Rock etc etc. 10x millions have been raped, tortured & murdered over the years with hardly a single reference to this genocide can be found in modern zion/jew english literature. History was rewritten by many, King James, the illuminati, Oxford Uni & the American congress to name just a few. The holocaust is nothing more than zion propaganda. along with jewish so called history resulting in covering up an ancient royal bloodline & replacing it with the frauds we know today.
The truth preaches are also guilty of spreading this lie. Why? You decide!
The Cymry are still fighting the war machine on a daily base now while the rest of the world sleeps in its brainwashed english indoctrinated slumber.
The gypsies are also of Cymry descent.

Nothing is as it seems.

I,ve enjoyed reading your post Bryn ap Qwilym.

I was just wondering if when you say today’s Cymry, do you really mean “Celts”?

When you say you are still fighting the war machine daily, what do you mean?

Lettherebelight
29th January 2011, 19:02
Regardless of the numbers of people persecuted in the holocaust, the event must not be used to justify atrocities in the world today (Gaza).

The eminent Dr Finklestein, whose parents actually were holocaust survivors, campaigns against all odds for this cause.

It is certainly one of the most volatile sociopolitical issues of our time.

Dr. Norman Finkelstein at the University of Waterloo - Arabic Translation




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94AEisdJljE&feature=player_detailpage

Bryn ap Gwilym
29th January 2011, 19:10
Fred259 Hi

No I don't mean celts. In essence there is no such people as the celts, for this was yet another 17th century english invention to suppress & confuse the masses. It also doubled up for intertwining false bloodlines into the Cymry history to which this enabling them to falsely claim a throne, but these false monarchs still need the jacobs pillow / stone of Skone (scone). The Cymry has this title by birth right.

War machine:
We are still fighting for our language to have equal rights for the zionists / english are trying their hardest to stamp it out. S4c is the only Cymraeg language channel on the planet, but westmister is in the process of closing it down. Cymraeg, Coelbren & hieroglyphics are all the same & hold the very key of history. If the masses start to study the language then the game is up for the frauds. (Look up Alan Wilson & Baram Blackette - MOSES IN THE HIEROGLYPHS) http://www.kingarthurslegacy.com/bookmoses.html Suppressed historians.
Our history is refused in schools including Uni. While english brainwashing make-believe is forced on the world. Our culture is refused sponsorship & suppressed while the likes of morris dancing is promoted etc.
The only language that isn't allowed to be spoken in the house of commons is Cymraeg, while the likes of german & yiddish is used.
Political red tape along with their law lords, shills, trolls etc are doing their damned hardest to erase the Cymry once & for all. The list is endless.

An example is in my sig. How many Americans know that Cymraeg is on the monument? Two years ago scaffolding was erected for Bush wanted it removed. He failed.
The same time he ordered the plaque of Prince Madoc to be taken down & destroyed. It was taken down, but a higher power ordered it to be put back up.

Swami
29th January 2011, 19:15
Cole in Auschwitz


A Jewish revisionist visits Auschwitz in order to uncover the real facts about the so-called holocaust.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

Lettherebelight
29th January 2011, 19:42
Bryn ap Gwilym,

You have raised a most interesting point here on this thread regarding persecuted people.

The people of Cymry, who originally inhabited a much larger geographical area, have been hounded and culturally surpressed for hundreds of years.

It is little known fact that their culture was extemely advanced, extremely ancient and shared many similarities to ancient Vedic culture. There are many welsh words today that are uncannily similar to their sanskrit counterpart.

The question is why do dark forces want to obliterate the mystic knowledge of Cymry? Your references to the Washington monument, etc. are most intriguing.

Certainly this topic deserves its own thread, if anyone feels qualified in their understanding of the subject to do so. I would certainly like to know more! (Sorry if I got spelling/usage for 'Cymry' wrong)

Lord Sidious
29th January 2011, 19:53
There's too much evidence to deny that the holocaust did not exist. Read the memoirs or letters of American GIs who stumbled into the camps. One group of GIs round up about twenty prison guards and Waffen SS and shot them all. Can't say I blame them for that, but today we would have tried those (outraged) GIs with war crimes.

I read somewhere that the purpose of WW II was to have a holocaust so that a Jewish state may be created in the Middle East and in so doing, destabilize that region.

If and this is a big if, we get clearance from Bill Ryan, I will take you on a ride through this construction known as the holocaust and to others, like me, as the holohoax.
Be aware that if we are allowed to debate this openly, some of the information is considered verboten in parts of Europe, but I assure you that I know probably more about this than all of you combined.
You may consider this an arrogant statement, but if we go ahead with a thread on this, I think I can foresee a time where you may agree with my statement.
Some of you may label me a holocaust denier, but I would ask you this, how could I deny something that never happened?
What actually did happen and what is said to have happened are, in most cases poles apart and a lot of the claims are scientifically impossible.

Now, onto your post here, the western allies never set foot in a ''death camp'', those are all conveniently located in what was the soviet zone and none of our nations had anyone see them.
There was indeed a massacre of SS guards, but it wasn't 20, it was 300.
The guards were mainly recovering SS combat troops not regular Totenkopfverbande guards.
This was at Dachau, the first camp that came into operation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre



Cole in Auschwitz





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKHw0EZrqM

David later recanted all his information and never made the videos after this one that he planned and spoke about during this vid.
The reason he recanted is that the jewish defense league threatened his life.

Swami
29th January 2011, 20:03
Holocaust debate with David Cole


In 1994, two gas chamber deniers, Bradley Smith and David Cole went on national television. The maker of One Third Of The Holocaust points out moments like when everyone (except Smith) believes an obviously fraudulent phone caller.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNTIfoWNog

Lefty Dave
29th January 2011, 20:47
THERE IS A REASON FOR EVERYTHING..NOTHING IS COINCIDENCE.

For Americans, the overthrow of our nation was quietly done by this cabal of animals, they first took over our money supply... then our banking,then quietly took over our medicine, then our media/entertainment industries, they own most sportsteams, then our news, then our universities, then our libraries, then our publishing both print, music,then our corporations, then most of our crime, and finally they took over our government....now there is no aspect of this lunacy that isn't pervasive in our existence.
Doubt that this is true? They don't try to hide this fact. They want you to know..
all you have to do is look at their last names. Look at where they meet. Look at who they support.Read their 'religious tracts, they tell you right up front what they think of you, and your part in their world..we're the slaves...they are the master race.

My hope is that we can expose this, as the ONLY World War there ever was, and is, as it is ongoing and about to be won. By them.

My view is, free thinking humanity is and has been a thing of the past. Less than 1% of the population of the earth has any idea such a conspiracy even exists. and if you get too close...or get in their way...you're dead.

Now that's just my opinion...I could be wrong...

Still...I refuse to hate anyone...I will not be dragged down to their level...and I wish love and peace for all humankind...

even them.

Fred259
29th January 2011, 20:50
Fred259 Hi

No I don't mean celts. In essence there is no such people as the celts, for this was yet another 17th century english invention to suppress & confuse the masses. It also doubled up for intertwining false bloodlines into the Cymry history to which this enabling them to falsely claim a throne, but these false monarchs still need the jacobs pillow / stone of Skone (scone). The Cymry has this title by birth right.

War machine:
We are still fighting for our language to have equal rights for the zionists / english are trying their hardest to stamp it out. S4c is the only Cymraeg language channel on the planet, but westmister is in the process of closing it down. Cymraeg, Coelbren & hieroglyphics are all the same & hold the very key of history. If the masses start to study the language then the game is up for the frauds. (Look up Alan Wilson & Baram Blackette - MOSES IN THE HIEROGLYPHS) http://www.kingarthurslegacy.com/bookmoses.html Suppressed historians.
Our history is refused in schools including Uni. While english brainwashing make-believe is forced on the world. Our culture is refused sponsorship & suppressed while the likes of morris dancing is promoted etc.The only language that isn't allowed to be spoken in the house of commons is Cymraeg, while the likes of german & yiddish is used.
Political red tape along with their law lords, shills, trolls etc are doing their damned hardest to erase the Cymry once & for all. The list is endless.

An example is in my sig. How many Americans know that Cymraeg is on the monument? Two years ago scaffolding was erected for Bush wanted it removed. He failed.
The same time he ordered the plaque of Prince Madoc to be taken down & destroyed. It was taken down, but a higher power ordered it to be put back up.

Many thanks Bryn,

I’m interested in your comments.

Are you saying that Irish & Scots are not Celts?

And are you saying that the "Stone of Scone" has no relevance?

I don’t think you can stop the English from “Morris Dancing” do they still do that ? Is that the same as dancing around the Maypole or whatever…. Ha… I can hear the Aussies having a laugh.

I feel a land grab coming on, is that what your grumbling about?

Half of Wales is full of sheep; in fact you’ve probably more sheep in Wales than New South Wales, what’s the problem Bryn?

Teakai
30th January 2011, 01:14
If and this is a big if, we get clearance from Bill Ryan, I will take you on a ride through this construction known as the holocaust and to others, like me, as the holohoax.
Be aware that if we are allowed to debate this openly, some of the information is considered verboten in parts of Europe, but I assure you that I know probably more about this than all of you combined.
You may consider this an arrogant statement, but if we go ahead with a thread on this, I think I can foresee a time where you may agree with my statement.
Some of you may label me a holocaust denier, but I would ask you this, how could I deny something that never happened?
What actually did happen and what is said to have happened are, in most cases poles apart and a lot of the claims are scientifically impossible.



Hi Lord Sidious, I for one would be very interested to hear what you have to share.


What actually did happen and what is said to have happened are, in most cases poles apart and a lot of the claims are scientifically impossible.


911 anyone?

WWll destroyed the British Empire.
911 destroyed the US.

We could probably go far back in history and see how every war or revolt has been a chess piece move of the elites to build their 'nwo' and obtain world domination BWAH HAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHHA.

I've never understood why world domination was such a desire. Who wants to manage a world? Bo-o-o-o-ring! But I don't go much for chess, either, really.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 01:22
It seems that many crimes, large and small, have an element of control through shame. Be it child molestation or mass genocide, the perpetrators often engage others in order to control them through the shame of presumed guilt in the deed.

My working hypothesis in the case of the Holocaust is that it is exaggerated and misrepresented, in order to provide such a lever of shame control.

That's a very valid point, Thepythoniccow - only what I have a hard time understanding is why the US citizens feel that way. The US gvt is one of the biggest defenders of the holocaust and the country who fund Israel to a large degree (and we know why that is) but what is it that makes the everyday people feel guilt about it?
Unless - it was because they entered the war after the bombing of Pearl Harbour and refused to before. That though only just occured to me. And maybe that 'guilt' has been used to stop them questioning anything.

slvrfx
30th January 2011, 01:24
Always ready to hear more. No matter what the source, always are more pieces to add to the puzzle.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 01:29
[QUOTE]But what is it that makes the everyday people feel guilt about it?

Because they know its wrong, yet they are powerless to act.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 01:34
Hi Lord Sidious, I for one would be very interested to hear what you have to share.



911 anyone?

WWll destroyed the British Empire.
911 destroyed the US.

We could probably go far back in history and see how every war or revolt has been a chess piece move of the elites to build their 'nwo' and obtain world domination BWAH HAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHHA.

I've never understood why world domination was such a desire. Who wants to manage a world? Bo-o-o-o-ring! But I don't go much for chess, either, really.

Its an illusion that the sun went down on the British Empire.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 01:40
What is ironic is the jews were not the Israelites but only about 19 small tribes in the far south. The Israelites were the Omrides, today's Cymry (Welsh). They were the advance race which is inscribed on the black obelisk, Moabite stone, royal inscription of Sargon II of Assyria, Behistun Rock etc etc. 10x millions have been raped, tortured & murdered over the years with hardly a single reference to this genocide can be found in modern zion/jew english literature. History was rewritten by many, King James, the illuminati, Oxford Uni & the American congress to name just a few. The holocaust is nothing more than zion propaganda. along with jewish so called history resulting in covering up an ancient royal bloodline & replacing it with the frauds we know today.
The truth preaches are also guilty of spreading this lie. Why? You decide!
The Cymry are still fighting the war machine on a daily base now while the rest of the world sleeps in its brainwashed english indoctrinated slumber.
The gypsies are also of Cymry descent.

Nothing is as it seems.

That is really fascinating, Bryn ap Gwilym. So going even further into it - it's not even really anything to do with the semetic Jews at all - except they happen to be in the desired place and so were handy to use to achieve a means to an end.

In Herodotus' travels there was no mention of the tribes of Israel - so this may have all been dreamed up at a much later date.
Anatoly Fomeko gives evidence that the bible was really written around the 14th century, King James re-worked it in the 16th century.

Thinking about the Scottish rite of Freemasonary here. Apparently child abuse is rampant in Scotland which rarely/never make it to the light of day.

The gypsys definitely are interesting. This is a fascinating subject just by itself.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


T So going even further into it - it's not even really anything to do with the semetic Jews at all - except they happen to be in the desired place and so were handy to use to achieve a means to an end.


Gods chosen people - only which gods?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Its an illusion that the sun went down on the British Empire.

Hi Fred, I think it was that "the sun 'never' sets" on the British empire - because they owned so much - it was always daylight somewhere.

Or are you saying that the British Empire still remains in a certain form, only not by that name? Because then we could say the Roman Empire never fell either - it just moved.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 01:43
If and this is a big if, we get clearance from Bill Ryan, I will take you on a ride through this construction known as the holocaust and to others, like me, as the holohoax. Be aware that if we are allowed to debate this openly, some of the information is considered verboten in parts of Europe, but I assure you that I know probably more about this than all of you combined. You may consider this an arrogant statement, but if we go ahead with a thread on this, I think I can foresee a time where you may agree with my statement. Some of you may label me a holocaust denier, but I would ask you this, how could I deny something that never happened?
What actually did happen and what is said to have happened are, in most cases poles apart and a lot of the claims are scientifically impossible.

Hi Lord Sidious, my understanding is that we need to investigate and unearth all topics to get to the truth - no exceptions. I am not sure why this needs "approval" There is no censorship here so long as what is written is done with the best of intents and historical facts can be supported with references. Many topics discussed at Avalon are controversial - it is up to the individual to discern truth from fiction once all opinions and references are tabled. Without all facts this task is impossible.

I have certainly gone with the "rolled out" version of truth on the matter and if this is not correct, then I (as well as others) would appreciate the information you have that could highlight where written history is wrong. And given the propensity of the ptw to write history to suit themselves I should not be shocked to discover that this as well as incorrect. We need to right the wrongs - no-one else is doing it.

Please start your thread, it appears you have much to tell and I look forward to what will in all liklihood be a healthy debate with members here.

(If you have safety concerns, I understand the topic can be stored as members only - at the discretion of Bill and/or Mods)

Witchy

(Addit: If you cant start threads yet on your own, just ask (via a PM is probably best) and we can start it for you and let you run with it.)

Fred259
30th January 2011, 01:47
That is really fascinating, Bryn ap Gwilym. So going even further into it - it's not even really anything to do with the semetic Jews at all - except they happen to be in the desired place and so were handy to use to achieve a means to an end.

In Herodotus' travels there was no mention of the tribes of Israel - so this may have all been dreamed up at a much later date.
Anatoly Fomeko gives evidence that the bible was really written around the 14th century, King James re-worked it in the 16th century.


Thinking about the Scottish rite of Freemasonary here. Apparently child abuse is rampant in Scotland which rarely/never make it to the light of day.


This is very true, we have serious problems with this and utterly corrupt MPs who cover it all up. Who told you this?

The gypsys definitely are interesting. This is a fascinating subject just by itself.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Gods chosen people - only which gods?

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Hi Fred, I think it was that "the sun 'never' sets" on the British empire - because they owned so much - it was always daylight somewhere.


Or are you saying that the British Empire still remains in a certain form, only not by that name? Because then we could say the Roman Empire never fell either - it just moved.

Yes, Cecil Rhodes passed the lantern to Rothschild and look at the mess we are in today.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 01:49
What is ironic is the jews were not the Israelites but only about 19 small tribes in the far south. The Israelites were the Omrides, today's Cymry (Welsh). They were the advance race which is inscribed on the black obelisk, Moabite stone, royal inscription of Sargon II of Assyria, Behistun Rock etc etc. 10x millions have been raped, tortured & murdered over the years with hardly a single reference to this genocide can be found in modern zion/jew english literature. History was rewritten by many, King James, the illuminati, Oxford Uni & the American congress to name just a few. The holocaust is nothing more than zion propaganda. along with jewish so called history resulting in covering up an ancient royal bloodline & replacing it with the frauds we know today.
The truth preaches are also guilty of spreading this lie. Why? You decide!
The Cymry are still fighting the war machine on a daily base now while the rest of the world sleeps in its brainwashed english indoctrinated slumber.
The gypsies are also of Cymry descent.

Nothing is as it seems.

My last name is the anglo version of Gwilym(s)

Fred259
30th January 2011, 01:53
My last name is the anglo version of Gwilym(s)

So are you a Taf as well then?

modwiz
30th January 2011, 01:53
I,ve enjoyed reading your post Bryn ap Qwilym.

I was just wondering if when you say today’s Cymry, do you really mean “Celts”?

When you say you are still fighting the war machine daily, what do you mean?

Cymru is Wales. Cymry is Welsh person/people.

Celts are a very large group.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:00
[QUOTE]Celts are a very large groupAre you Celtic?


Modwiz - Are you from they Catskill Mountains or have you escaped to the Catskill Mountains – what are you doing to get out of this mess? What’s the plan?

We are very concerned, seriously..

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:05
So are you a Taf as well then?

Not sure, so good chance no.. I do not know what a T af is. Care to enlighten? Sure I'm not alone in finding this term new.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 02:06
[QUOTE=Teakai;113961]

Because they know its wrong, yet they are powerless to act.

I don't understand, Fred? They know what is wrong? I think most of them believe the official holocaust version - as most of them believe the official 911 version.

In which case - the only thing I can think they have to feel guilty about - is not coming into the war immediately. Is there any US citizen out there who can answer this for me?

My personal experience is that people simply get angry and emotional if you try and have a discussion about it. The door doesn't even get opened, but for a crack before it's slammed shut.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:09
Not sure, so good chance no.. I do not know what a T af is. Care to enlighten? Sure I'm not alone in finding this term new.
A person from Wales

English - Well we leave them out.
Scots - Jocks
Irish - Paddy’s
Welsh - Taffs

We don’t do political correctness – PC is cultural Marxism.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 02:10
My personal experience is that people simply get angry and emotional if you try and have a discussion about it. The door doesn't even get opened, but for a crack before it's slammed shut.

Gotta admit to having been one of those door slammers in the past:flock:

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:14
[QUOTE=Fred259;113966]

I don't understand, Fred? They know what is wrong? I think most of them believe the official holocaust version - as most of them believe the official 911 version.

In which case - the only thing I can think they have to feel guilty about - is not coming into the war immediately. Is there any US citizen out there who can answer this for me?

My personal experience is that people simply get angry and emotional if you try and have a discussion about it. The door doesn't even get opened, but for a crack before it's slammed shut.

The country is utterly corrupt controlled by AIPAC at every level and destined for oblivion.

I take no please in saying this. It’s even worse here in the UK. We don’t have AIPAC, but we do have FOI “Friends of Israel” a subversive organisation that has destroyed the country.

78% of conservative MP’s are FOI and in the last Labour Government cabinet ministers had to be FOI or no job.

Freemasonry is a huge problem as well….

Teakai
30th January 2011, 02:14
Yes, Cecil Rhodes passed the lantern to Rothschild and look at the mess we are in today.

Hi Fred - I think the Rothschilds have a very long history. Perhaps you already know that prior to being called Rothschild they were named Bauer. Possible roots in the Templars or even the early zionist, or even older.

Does the Cecil Rhodes history or connection to the Rothschilds go back further than that? Tell me so I can go study up on it if it does.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:17
[QUOTE=modwiz;113989]
Are you Celtic?


Modwiz - Are you from they Catskill Mountains or have you escaped to the Catskill Mountains – what are you doing to get out of this mess? What’s the plan?
e)

We are very concerned, seriously..

I'm a French/Celt w/ Native American on both sides. (Mohawk/Nez Perce).

Temporary escape. I have been able to drink my own delicious untreated well water for a decade and electricity comes from the Niagara Falls generators so not so susceptible to interruption owing to coal delivery cessation. After all no electricity, no pump to get water out of the ground.

The lack of a lengthy growing season and the cold and snow at 2200 feet above sea level is not working though and staying has its drawbacks.

It is a large house too and heating for six months with any medium is very draining on the funny money.

Plan. We need communities in an agrarian mindset though something akin to villages replete with an artisan class is really needed.

I live in a figurative castle with 8 bedrooms and only me and the ex-to-be. What a waste. She and I have different visions of what a quality life entails hence the parting of ways.

Praytell, why the concern? I am moved.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 02:18
The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN

I read the other day (didnt keep the link) that Aldous (Hitlers father) was none other than the illigitimate son of Baron RC!

Teakai
30th January 2011, 02:21
[QUOTE=Teakai;114002]

The country is utterly corrupt controlled by AIPAC at every level and destined for oblivion.

I take no please in saying this. It’s even worse here in the UK. We don’t have AIPAC, but we do have FOI “Friends of Israel” a subversive organisation that has destroyed the country.

78% of conservative MP’s are FOI and in the last Labour Government cabinet ministers had to be FOI or no job.

Freemasonry is a huge problem as well….

Well, that all makes sense. These organisations are there to protect and feed the beast.
I just don't understand where the guilt is coming from on behalf of the ordinary everyday people to not question. Is it guilt - or is it fear, perhaps? Maybe it's just ignorance, lack of interest, I don't know - I'm just curious as to their motivation - or lack of.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I read the other day (didnt keep the link) that Aldous (Hitlers father) was none other than the illigitimate son of Baron RC!

Hi Witchy - I have heard it tossed about that Hitler was Illuminati bloodlines - I didn't find anything definite myself, but it wouldn't surprise me. Apparently they plant their seed far and wide so as to have useful bloodline pawns to do their bidding.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:22
Hi Fred - I think the Rothschilds have a very long history. Perhaps you already know that prior to being called Rothschild they were named Bauer. Possible roots in the Templars or even the early zionist, or even older.

Does the Cecil Rhodes history or connection to the Rothschilds go back further than that? Tell me so I can go study up on it if it does.

Rhodes was really the founding father of the modern NWO. Lord Balfour was also involved as were some of the earlier Rothschild’s, but yes Rhodes wanted to build the British Empire into what today we would call the New World Order.

Why do you think you have a Royal Australian Navy even to this day?

Teakai - Question When you say Templers what do you mean?

witchy1
30th January 2011, 02:25
I just don't understand where the guilt is coming from on behalf of the ordinary everyday people to not question.

For myself it was just the absolute shock of understanding just how depraved humanity could be. We were allowed and conditioned to think that we all had within us the ability to do this to others.

This means that if we dont question it or bring it up for discussion, then we can bury that evil part of ourselves and choose not to acknowledge that we have that capacity. Almost like we cant trust ourselves to be do the right thing in the face of adversity and control. We would indeed do exactly the same as the Nazi in the same situation........ Who wants to admit that we have this evil just sitting under the surface of our conscienceness..........just teasing out my thoughts here

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:25
[QUOTE=Fred259;113992]

I'm a French/Celt w/ Native American on both sides. (Mohawk/Nez Perce).

Temporary escape. I have been able to drink my own delicious untreated well water for a decade and electricity comes from the Niagara Falls generators so not so susceptible to interruption owing to coal delivery cessation. After all no electricity, no pump to get water out of the ground.

The lack of a lengthy growing season and the cold and snow at 2200 feet above sea level is not working though and staying has its drawbacks.

It is a large house too and heating for six months with any medium is very draining on the funny money.

Plan. We need communities in an agrarian mindset though something akin to villages replete with an artisan class is really needed.

I live in a figurative castle with 8 bedrooms and only me and the ex-to-be. What a waste. She and I have different visions of what a quality life entails hence the parting of ways.

Praytell, why the concern? I am moved.

Just concerned about the state of the US and the complete lack of hope as I see it, but maybe Im wrong.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:28
A person from Wales

English - Well we leave them out.
Scots - Jocks
Irish - Paddy’s
Welsh - Taffs

We don’t do political correctness – PC is cultural Marxism.

Thank you. I guess I/m a French Taffpaddyjock. LOL

Agreed about PC and the mindf*** it is.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:35
Originally Posted by Fred259 View Post

Just concerned about the state of the US and the complete lack of hope as I see it, but maybe Im wrong.

We are in deep doo doo. This house of cards only stands because it is too big to fail, for now.
Your concerns for our survival are well founded and grounded in observation and logic.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:38
[QUOTE=Fred259;113992]

I'm a French/Celt w/ Native American on both sides. (Mohawk/Nez Perce).

Temporary escape. I have been able to drink my own delicious untreated well water for a decade and electricity comes from the Niagara Falls generators so not so susceptible to interruption owing to coal delivery cessation. After all no electricity, no pump to get water out of the ground.

The lack of a lengthy growing season and the cold and snow at 2200 feet above sea level is not working though and staying has its drawbacks.

It is a large house too and heating for six months with any medium is very draining on the funny money.

Plan. We need communities in an agrarian mindset though something akin to villages replete with an artisan class is really needed.

I live in a figurative castle with 8 bedrooms and only me and the ex-to-be. What a waste. She and I have different visions of what a quality life entails hence the parting of ways.

Praytell, why the concern? I am moved.
Findhorn Foundation.

This is a community that got going around 30 years ago and is booming. Serious money has been invested and left by serious people who build the community.

They established this next to an RAF base, and declared a Nuke Free Zone. The two lived side by side for the last 30 years and now the air base is closing. I have a feeling Findhorn Foundation will buy the base as it has everything they need. It’s a superb place.


http://www.findhorn.org/

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:42
We are in deep doo doo. This house of cards only stands because it is too big to fail, for now.
Your concerns for our survival are well founded and grounded in observation and logic.

This is what I mean,

9/11 was not the result of Islamic terrorism, terrorism or Islam for that matter rather it was the concealment of breathtaking financial crimes.

It’s all about a multi billion dollar gold bullion scam,

Citibank largest stockholders were JP Morgan which in December 2000 merged with Chase Manhattan to form the all-powerful JP Morgan Chase. Bankers Trust is a JP Morgan stand alone company. This has Rothschild written all over it.

It’s suggested that 14,000 tons of “thin air gold “was created to keep the price of gold low. By doing this the scam could continue, because not enough physical gold is available to make good all the futures held by the banks.

The FBI was investigating this and key gangsters from the Fed (Greenspan) JP Morgan, Chase Manhattan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank were involved in a pending lawsuit.

All the evidence held by the FBI was contained on the 23rd floor of WTC 1 ready for the court case on 9th October 2001 a KEY DATE.These cockroaches don’t do paper shredders they just take out the whole building!

In addition $240 billion in fraudulent bonds was due the next day September 12th.

Its out of control in the US…


Its just the same over here we are riddled with Marxists.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:46
[QUOTE=modwiz;114012]
Findhorn Foundation.

This is a community that got going around 30 years ago and is booming. Serious money has been invested and left by serious people who build the community.

They established this next to an RAF base, and declared a Nuke Free Zone. The two lived side by side for the last 30 years and now the air base is closing. I have a feeling Findhorn Foundation will buy the base as it has everything they need. It’s a superb place.


http://www.findhorn.org/

I have the book. I love it.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 02:49
Rhodes was really the founding father of the modern NWO. Lord Balfour was also involved as were some of the earlier Rothschild’s, but yes Rhodes wanted to build the British Empire into what today we would call the New World Order.

Why do you think you have a Royal Australian Navy even to this day?

Teakai - Question When you say Templers what do you mean?

Hi Fred, I was meaning the templars that existed at the time of the crusades.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 02:51
This is what I mean,

9/11 was not the result of Islamic terrorism, terrorism or Islam for that matter rather it was the concealment of breathtaking financial crimes.

It’s all about a multi billion dollar gold bullion scam,

Citibank largest stockholders were JP Morgan which in December 2000 merged with Chase Manhattan to form the all-powerful JP Morgan Chase. Bankers Trust is a JP Morgan stand alone company. This has Rothschild written all over it.

It’s suggested that 14,000 tons of “thin air gold “was created to keep the price of gold low. By doing this the scam could continue, because not enough physical gold is available to make good all the futures held by the banks.

The FBI was investigating this and key gangsters from the Fed (Greenspan) JP Morgan, Chase Manhattan, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank were involved in a pending lawsuit.

All the evidence held by the FBI was contained on the 23rd floor of WTC 1 ready for the court case on 9th October 2001 a KEY DATE.These cockroaches don’t do paper shredders they just take out the whole building!

In addition $240 billion in fraudulent bonds was due the next day September 12th.

Its out of control in the US…


Its just the same over here we are riddled with Marxists.

There is also the 2.3 trillion dollar problem at the Pentagon that whatever hit there so conveniently wiped all traces of malfeasance from the pages of history and traceability.
Cui bono?

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:51
[QUOTE=Fred259;114032]

I have the book. I love it.

The community is spread over 20 miles and now they are part of the surrounding villages as well.

I think a lot of rock stars have put serious cash into the project over the years.

Whenever some large property comes on the market they buy it and away they go again.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 02:57
There is also the 2.3 trillion dollar problem at the Pentagon that whatever hit there so conveniently wiped all traces of malfeasance from the pages of history and traceability.
Cui bono?



Read this report its mind numbing and you why the Pentagon was hit.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12470-Misconceptions-About-911

Teakai
30th January 2011, 03:01
A person from Wales

English - Well we leave them out.
Scots - Jocks
Irish - Paddy’s
Welsh - Taffs

We don’t do political correctness – PC is cultural Marxism.

I think I am of Taff decent.
I have tried to look up my family history, but it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. Everyone is very zip lipped. Maybe there was a convict in the family somewhere :)

modwiz
30th January 2011, 03:04
Hi Fred, I was meaning the templars that existed at the time of the crusades.

It seems that if you want to know who is white/gray hat or black hat you just have to see how long they last on the stage of the world. Templars, Cathars, Gnostics where art thou as institutions? Oh, I see, carried a bit too much light. Pity that.

Furthermore, if you've heard about it/them then they are not black. The Vatican has two(at least) levels with the upper level being dark gray.

What is heartening about these times is that those who prefer anonymity are losing it fast. The Fed is horrified that people are finding out that it is a privately owned bank with direct lines to the Red Shields. Roaches hate the light.

I do think it is important that as this dialogue deepens that we watch broad brush stokes. The original thread topic is an attempt to shine light on a purposely darkened corner of history. There are many dupes, and those who might have some skin/blood in this game might be the most duped of all.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:11
Hi Fred, I was meaning the templars that existed at the time of the crusades.

St Clair came over from France with the Norman invasion and showed allegiance to Malcolm Kind of Scotland. He was gifted lands in Orkney and Midlothian by Edinburgh.

From Orkney they sailed to Canada Before Columbus.

At Roslin near Edinburgh they built a chapel and this is where Scottish Rite Freemasonry has its roots. Something we are not proud of!

St Clair and Sinclair family names are on the bloodline of Christ, which is why Rothschild is married into this bloodline amongst others.

Rh-negative bloodline.

¤=[Post Update]=¤[COLOR="red"]

¤=[Post Update]=¤



It seems that if you want to know who is white/gray hat or black hat you just have to see how long they last on the stage of the world. Templars, Cathars, Gnostics where art thou as institutions? Oh, I see, carried a bit too much light. Pity that.

Furthermore, if you've heard about it/them then they are not black. The Vatican has two(at least) levels with the upper level being dark gray.

What is heartening about these times is that those who prefer anonymity are losing it fast. The Fed is horrified that people are finding out that it is a privately owned bank with direct lines to the Red Shields. Roaches hate the light.

I do think it is important that as this dialogue deepens that we watch broad brush stokes. The original thread topic is an attempt to shine light on a purposely darkened corner of history. Their are many dupes, and those who might have some skin/blood in this game might be the most duped of all.

That’s interesting thanks.. I agree…

Teakai
30th January 2011, 03:15
St Clair came over from France with the Norman invasion and showed allegiance to Malcolm Kind of Scotland. He was gifted lands in Orkney and Midlothian by Edinburgh.

From Orkney they sailed to Canada Before Columbus.

At Roslin near Edinburgh they built a chapel and this is where Scottish Rite Freemasonry has its roots. Something we are not proud of!

St Clair and Sinclair family names are on the bloodline of Christ, which is why Rothschild is married into this bloodline amongst others.

Rh-negative bloodline.

Fascinating stuff.

So I wonder - what is the connection between Rothschilds and the bloodline.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:16
I think I am of Taff decent.
I have tried to look up my family history, but it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. Everyone is very zip lipped. Maybe there was a convict in the family somewhere :)

Do you know your blood type?

modwiz
30th January 2011, 03:17
Read this report its mind numbing and you why the Pentagon was hit.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12470-Misconceptions-About-911

I know why the Pentagon was hit.

The whole treasonous saga we call 9/11 is sickening.

I would rather grow a garden and start a new world with beautiful people than be reminded of this dark day and the spell it has cast on the sheeple of the world.

I might say that it is our addiction to "facts" that is a major obstacle here. The disinfo people thrive on a factoid here and another there to make as if the gist of the story and moral of the tale is all wrong.

Who did what? What do we know?

We know our government did not protect us that day, at the very least. We no longer have a representative government. We can thank Obama for disabusing us of that lie.

We get to elect someone who was chosen by the cockroaches to go to DC so they can do further damage to our country in the service of these insects, and collect handsome sums,(bribes and hush money on top of the personal skeletons required to run for office) in the process.

Got any heirloom seeds?

modwiz
30th January 2011, 03:23
Fred 259 wrote,
St Clair and Sinclair family names are on the bloodline of Christ, which is why Rothschild is married into this bloodline amongst others.

Rh-negative bloodline.

My mother was Rh negative.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:23
Fascinating stuff.

So I wonder - what is the connection between Rothschilds and the bloodline.
Yes Yes, that’s what its all about, they say they are on the same bloodline as Christ, Moses and Abraham as are the British Royal Family.

O Rhesus Negative blood

Many of us so No.

Its all depends if you believe you can have a virgin birth.

If Yes. End of Conversation.

If No. Moses many historians say is Pharaoh Tuthmosis. Abraham is Pharaoh Amenhotep.

The Jews were worshiping the Pharaohs.

Remember the Jews were slaves to the Pharaohs.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 03:30
It seems that if you want to know who is white/gray hat or black hat you just have to see how long they last on the stage of the world. Templars, Cathars, Gnostics where art thou as institutions? Oh, I see, carried a bit too much light. Pity that.

Furthermore, if you've heard about it/them then they are not black. The Vatican has two(at least) levels with the upper level being dark gray.

What is heartening about these times is that those who prefer anonymity are losing it fast. The Fed is horrified that people are finding out that it is a privately owned bank with direct lines to the Red Shields. Roaches hate the light.

I do think it is important that as this dialogue deepens that we watch broad brush stokes. The original thread topic is an attempt to shine light on a purposely darkened corner of history. Their are many dupes, and those who might have some skin/blood in this game might be the most duped of all.

Hi Modwiz. The Templars were driven underground and came out at a later date as the Freemasons – possibly other groups as well, I don’t know, but definitely as Freemasons.

The Royals and the church tried to eliminate them, but they went into hiding and hid whatever treasures they had. They were also the first banking system.

They hated the church after that and swore revenge. I think that’s been seen to

Possibly that was the same motivation with marrying into royal bloodlines – plus the control and power it would give them. (I think I just answered my own question to Fred)

And they have positioned themselves throughout the years in such a way as their control is now in every facet of power and decision making.

All brought about by wars and falsehood.

'if my sons didn't want to have wars there would be no wars' ~old lady Rothschild~ "

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:36
My mother was Rh negative.

This is what we want to find out from Charles.

93% of the world population is Rh Positive

7% of the world population is Rh Negative



But

Rh Negative blood types are mainly found in North Africa close to the Atlas Mountains, Europe and the new world, Australia, NZ US Canada, etc

The question is this.

If mankind evolved from apes and have Rhesus positive blood cultures where did the Rhesus negatives come from?

Rh Negs can have an extra vertebra or rib.


Modwiz… I think it goes like this if your mother is Rh-negative you may be Rh-negative as well. If not you have the Rh Negative DNA and your children will be RH-negative.

Paul
30th January 2011, 03:41
I know why the Pentagon was hit. My working hypothesis continues to be that the wiping out of investigations and evidence in WTC 1, as noted in Post #54 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12633-A-look-beneath-the-Holocaust-Propoganda...&p=114036&viewfull=1#post114036) above, the Pentagon, as noted in Post #57 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12633-A-look-beneath-the-Holocaust-Propoganda...&p=114042&viewfull=1#post114042) above, and WTC 7 (if my memory serves me) was not the exclusive or even primary motivation for 9/11.

Rather such evidence destruction was a convenient by-product. If you're going to blow some buildings up anyway, might as well use it as a convenient trash burner for whatever papers (and people) you'd rather not have around anymore.

The Powers That Were had other motivations as well, including militarizing Asia from Iraq to Pakistan, tyrannizing the United States, maintaining control of the world's oil, suppressing Islamic regimes that were not co-operating with Western banking, numerous and diverse opportunities for graft, corruption and blackmail, ..., justifying a major increase in Military-Intelligence spending, ...

It's hard (for me at least) to figure out which motivation was sine qua non, if any.

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:42
:ohwell:
I think I am of Taff decent.
I have tried to look up my family history, but it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. Everyone is very zip lipped. Maybe there was a convict in the family somewhere :)

Yes a strong possibility, now we don’t want you back that’s you stuck down under for ever. You do understand this don’t you.!

modwiz
30th January 2011, 03:44
Yes Yes, that’s what its all about, they say they are on the same bloodline as Christ, Moses and Abraham as are the British Royal Family.

O Rhesus Negative blood

Many of us so No.

Its all depends if you believe you can have a virgin birth.

If Yes. End of Conversation.

If No. Moses many historians say Moses is Pharaoh Tuthmosis, and Abraham is Pharaoh Amenhotep. The Jews were worshiping the Pharaohs.

Remember the Jews were slaves to the Pharaohs.

Slaves. There are four hundred years missing from the record between when they were settled in some of the richest land in Egypt and making mud bricks, which was a common public works project expected by common people for a third of their year in exchange for the social security of the Kingdoms' food stores in times of poor floods and rain.

The other two thirds were your time.

I'll take that arrangement.

So, from blood relatives of the vizier( advisor) Joseph to slaves with enough gold to make golden idols is an interesting path to tread. The missing four hundred year history would shed some light there.

Probably Muslim terrorists jockeyed flaming camels into the history books. No Muslims yet? Nevermind!
:focus:

Where is this all headed?

Propaganda. Motifs, another word for modus operandi, which is a calling card.

There is a reason there is an officially sanctioned history. A comparison of Chinese and Japanese recounts of the latters' exploits in Nanking would probably be unrecognizable but supremely relevant to any topic on propaganda.

Cui bono?

Think growing season will start early this year?

Paul
30th January 2011, 03:47
That's a very valid point, Thepythoniccow - only what I have a hard time understanding is why the US citizens feel that way. The US gvt is one of the biggest defenders of the holocaust and the country who fund Israel to a large degree (and we know why that is) but what is it that makes the everyday people feel guilt about it?
Unless - it was because they entered the war after the bombing of Pearl Harbour and refused to before. That though only just occured to me. And maybe that 'guilt' has been used to stop them questioning anything.
Good question.

I don't think we Americans feel much guilt for not having stopped the Holocaust. That would require more awareness of the events and time order of history than most of my compatriots can offer.

Rather I think we get shamed into guilt anytime we raise any criticism of or withhold any support for Zionism, on the grounds (confusing them with Jews) that this dishonors the victims of the Greatest and Most Horrible Crime in Human History (or so we're made to feel.)

Fred259
30th January 2011, 03:51
Slaves. There are four hundred years missing from the record between when they were settled in some of the richest land in Egypt and making mud bricks, which was a common public works project expected by common people for a third of their year in exchange for the social security of the Kingdoms' food stores in times of poor floods and rain.

The other two thirds were your time.

I'll take that arrangement.

So, from blood relatives of the vizier( advisor) Joseph to slaves with enough gold to make golden idols is an interesting path to tread. The missing four hundred year history would shed some light there.

Probably Muslim terrorists jockeyed flaming camels into the history books. No Muslims yet? Nevermind!
:focus:

Where is this all headed?

Propaganda. Motifs, another word for modus operandi, which is a calling card.

There is a reason there is an officially sanctioned history. A comparison of Chinese and Japanese recounts of the latters' exploits in Nanking would probably be unrecognizable but supremely relevant to any topic on propaganda.

Cui bono?


Think growing season will start early this year?

No not for you, late I would say, its been a hard winter.

modwiz
30th January 2011, 03:53
My working hypothesis continues to be that the wiping out of investigations and evidence in WTC 1, as noted in Post #54 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12633-A-look-beneath-the-Holocaust-Propoganda...&p=114036&viewfull=1#post114036) above, the Pentagon, as noted in Post #57 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12633-A-look-beneath-the-Holocaust-Propoganda...&p=114042&viewfull=1#post114042) above, and WTC 7 (if my memory serves me) was not the exclusive or even primary motivation for 9/11.

Rather such evidence destruction was a convenient by-product. If you're going to blow some buildings up anyway, might as well use it as a convenient trash burner for whatever papers (and people) you'd rather not have around anymore.

The Powers That Were had other motivations as well, including militarizing Asia from Iraq to Pakistan, tyrannizing the United States, maintaining control of the world's oil, suppressing Islamic regimes that were not co-operating with Western banking, numerous and diverse opportunities for graft, corruption and blackmail, ..., justifying a major increase in Military-Intelligence spending, ...

It's hard (for me at least) to figure out which motivation was sine qua non, if any.

Yes, a gruesome stew with many ingredients. Mmm-mm good.

Freedom fries with that?

witchy1
30th January 2011, 04:08
So I wonder - what is the connection between Rothschilds and the bloodline

It all fits together: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_rothschild_bloodline.htm. :yes4: and referenced. (you may be gone a while)

Fred259
30th January 2011, 04:19
UK Conservative MP Zak Goldsmith has just divorced his wife and run off with Alice Rothschild.

His brother Ben is married to another Rothschild.

His father Jimmy Goldsmith the billionaire (Jew) some say, indeed many say, is the father of Princess Diana.

Jews now say, Ahhhh this means Prince William is Jewish !

They should be tarred and feathered the lot of them.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 04:30
Hiya Fred, seems they have moved away from marrying their first cousins then - lol.

Bauer's have been traced back (in the above article) to the 16th C thru to current times, and they are all MPD and mad as hatters!!!

(There is also a secret bloodline that is being kept pretty hush hush according to that article. I need to research the author and see what else he has written - Fritz Springmeier, no doubt a pseudomym)

Religion is simply a tool being used to control the masses and achieve the goals of the RC (or one world government / NWO)

Religion matters not at the end of the day - its simply a ruse

Remember: nothing happens by co-incidence, everything happens for a reason and follow the money

Fred259
30th January 2011, 04:42
Hiya Fred, seems they have moved away from marrying their first cousins then - lol. Bauer's have been traced back (in the above article) to the 16th C and all the way here.

(There is also a secret bloodline that is being kept pretty hush hush according to that article. I need to research the author and see what else he has written - Fritz Springmeier, no doubt a pseudomym)

Religion is simply a tool being used to control the masses and achieve the goals of the RC (or one world government / NWO)

Religion matters not at the end of the day - its simply a ruse

Remember: nothing happens by co-incidence, everything happens for a reason and follow the money

Well they were all mad, and produced children like Prince C .

It’s interesting to see this engagement with Kate Middleton soon to be wife of Prince William. They have obviously decided to do things like normal people!.

Elsewhere in Sweden, Princess Madeline broke her engagement following a dalliance by her fiancée who it’s alleged committed an act of gross indecency with a “ski bunny” in a mountain resort!

Many suspected that Princes Madeline would hitch with Prince William, but it didn’t happen…Waitey Katie won in the end!

She is now known as Catherine.

Catherine’s father was a former BA Pilot. Her mother also worked with the airline in the cabin.

The press don’t like the mother because she was pushy it would seem. Now the press have nicknamed Catherine’s mother “Doors to Automatic”

witchy1
30th January 2011, 04:46
Odds on Fred, there WILL be a connection if they go back far enough..........I'm just waiting for someone to unearth it.

Unless Madeline is to Will what Camillia is to Charles - LOL


Princess Madeline broke her engagement following a dalliance by her fiancée who it’s alleged committed an act of gross indecency with a “ski bunny” in a mountain resort! Not sure if that is just funny or completely insane!

Fred259
30th January 2011, 04:53
Odds on Fred, there WILL be a connection if they go back far enough..........I'm just waiting for someone to unearth it.

Unless Madeline is to Will what Camillia is to Charles - LOL

Not sure if that is just funny or completely insane!

Well she is a good looking girl, and a real Princess mind. She does have a habit of wearing low cut frocks and this has caused some problems in the past, when TV camera men don’t know what to do. Do you continue filming or what, it’s a dilemma!

Google Princess Madeline of Sweden.

mondaze
30th January 2011, 04:56
first thing. i have "jewish" blood. A great grandmother of German "jewish" descent. However, as she was probably Ashkanazi was she really jewish? Its a very complex and deliberately obtuse area to research. I am always wary of areas where we are told what to think. Holocaust denial is an area of free speech that is verboten. This sets of my alarm. As most Zionists are Ashkanazi one has to ask, (and this is heresy) is Zion really a jewish state? I recommend the following radio broadcast if you really want to disappear down that particular rabbit hole.
http://www.argusoogradio.org/nl/2010/11/the-waterman-files-%e2%80%93-19-november-2010/

Fred259
30th January 2011, 04:57
Well she is a good looking girl, and a real Princess mind. She does have a habit of wearing low cut frocks and this has caused some problems in the past, when TV camera men don’t know what to do. Do you continue filming or what, it’s a dilemma!

Google Princess Madeline of Sweden.

Prince Charles on the other hand has a problem. Many in the country don’t like his choice of wife. Many still think Diana was murdered.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 05:03
Many still think Diana was murdered Yes Fred, there has been discussions on Avalon about it...just do a search


and a real Princess mind

:attention:They still fart in the bath!!!! (or should I say still put one sock on at a time)
Soooooooorrrrrrrrrrreeeeeee T didnt mean to hijack your thread - back to topic :focus:

Fred259
30th January 2011, 05:08
first thing. i have "jewish" blood. A great grandmother of German "jewish" descent. However, as she was probably Ashkanazi was she really jewish? Its a very complex and deliberately obtuse area to research. I am always wary of areas where we are told what to think. Holocaust denial is an area of free speech that is verboten. This sets of my alarm. As most Zionists are Ashkanazi one has to ask, (and this is heresy) is Zion really a jewish state? I recommend the following radio broadcast if you really want to disappear down that particular rabbit hole.
http://www.argusoogradio.org/nl/2010/11/the-waterman-files-%e2%80%93-19-november-2010/

It does seem all very complex mondaze. The Jewish friends I have don’t really have much time for what is going on.

Perhaps the best thing is to fetch the Jews out of Israel and bring them here. Let the Zionists fight it out till the land is destroyed. I understand parts of Israel are contaminated with depleted uranium which is not very good at all.

Chicodoodoo
30th January 2011, 05:27
If lying is your lifestyle you have to have a very well functioning memory, because you gotta remember wot you say all the time.

Interestingly enough, lying is an integral part of your lifestyle if you are a sociopath, and along with that, keeping a lot of things secret. To non-sociopaths, all this lying is a laughing matter, because they can't possibly imagine living like that, but to sociopaths, lying is a practiced and well polished skill. The same goes for keeping so many things hidden. Both characteristics serve them well in their natural domination of leadership positions.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 05:31
:ohwell:

Yes a strong possibility, now we don’t want you back that’s you stuck down under for ever. You do understand this don’t you.!

You know, I'm only down under from the perspective that you're up top- don't you Fred? We're a planet in the middle of space whose to say which way is up?
:)

Teakai
30th January 2011, 05:52
Do you know your blood type?

No.
I have a blood donor card somewhere - only I can't find it.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 05:55
I know why the Pentagon was hit.

The whole treasonous saga we call 9/11 is sickening.

I would rather grow a garden and start a new world with beautiful people than be reminded of this dark day and the spell it has cast on the sheeple of the world.

I might say that it is our addiction to "facts" that is a major obstacle here. The disinfo people thrive on a factoid here and another there to make as if the gist of the story and moral of the tale is all wrong.

Who did what? What do we know?

We know our government did not protect us that day, at the very least. We no longer have a representative government. We can thank Obama for disabusing us of that lie.

We get to elect someone who was chosen by the cockroaches to go to DC so they can do further damage to our country in the service of these insects, and collect handsome sums,(bribes and hush money on top of the personal skeletons required to run for office) in the process.

Got any heirloom seeds?

I went to order some heirloom seeds yesterday - there's a 60 day wait on them.
And frankly - I think people should have started suspecting something was dreadfully wrong when Bush got elected - seriously that man's brain is scr*wed.

Teakai
30th January 2011, 06:06
Yes Yes, that’s what its all about, they say they are on the same bloodline as Christ, Moses and Abraham as are the British Royal Family.

O Rhesus Negative blood

Many of us so No.

Its all depends if you believe you can have a virgin birth.

If Yes. End of Conversation.

If No. Moses many historians say is Pharaoh Tuthmosis. Abraham is Pharaoh Amenhotep.

The Jews were worshiping the Pharaohs.

Remember the Jews were slaves to the Pharaohs.

Ah virgin births now there’s an interesting topic. There was a time not that long ago and I would have been, “Virgin births? Puh-leeeze!!”
Now, who knows.
This would have been considered a virgin birth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRPV-NlNUdU&playnext=1&list=PLD882A32E01300D50

And look at all the flying saucer references in mediaeval religious art.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH0FGRpx8-Q

Might be something to it.

This is a step up from holograms
:)

Teakai
30th January 2011, 06:16
Not sure if that is just funny or completely insane!

Bestiality is always completely insane. Poor little ski-bunny.
:wink:

Teakai
30th January 2011, 06:21
first thing. i have "jewish" blood. A great grandmother of German "jewish" descent. However, as she was probably Ashkanazi was she really jewish? Its a very complex and deliberately obtuse area to research. I am always wary of areas where we are told what to think. Holocaust denial is an area of free speech that is verboten. This sets of my alarm. As most Zionists are Ashkanazi one has to ask, (and this is heresy) is Zion really a jewish state? I recommend the following radio broadcast if you really want to disappear down that particular rabbit hole.
http://www.argusoogradio.org/nl/2010/11/the-waterman-files-%e2%80%93-19-november-2010/

Hi Mondaze, I've heard noises that 'they' want to make saying 911 was an inside job illegal. And considering all the crazy stuff that's going down in the US at the moment, who would be surprised if it happens?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Well she is a good looking girl, and a real Princess mind. She does have a habit of wearing low cut frocks and this has caused some problems in the past, when TV camera men don’t know what to do. Do you continue filming or what, it’s a dilemma!

Google Princess Madeline of Sweden.

Prince Charles on the other hand has a problem. Many in the country don’t like his choice of wife. Many still think Diana was murdered.

IMO the many would be right.

witchy1
30th January 2011, 06:45
Poor little ski-bunny. Wasnt he talking about a cute chick on the slopes???? as in playboy bunny??????? Wasnt sure - insane if not, totally agree.


I went to order some heirloom seeds yesterday - there's a 60 day wait on them.

Where did you order them from T, was in in Oz??

Lord Sidious
30th January 2011, 09:42
Hi Lord Sidious, I for one would be very interested to hear what you have to share.



911 anyone?

WWll destroyed the British Empire.
911 destroyed the US.

We could probably go far back in history and see how every war or revolt has been a chess piece move of the elites to build their 'nwo' and obtain world domination BWAH HAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHHA.

I've never understood why world domination was such a desire. Who wants to manage a world? Bo-o-o-o-ring! But I don't go much for chess, either, really.

The thing is, the debate that I am offering usually gets heated, especially for jews. I can figure out why they feel that way, but I am not proposing a witch hunt, but merely the swapping of information so that people can make up their own minds.
If people get offended at this, then they are better off not getting involved as from my perspective, it isn't anything personal other than I don't like to be lied too by people and then ostracised for being a heretic.


Its an illusion that the sun went down on the British Empire.

I would agree.


Hi Lord Sidious, my understanding is that we need to investigate and unearth all topics to get to the truth - no exceptions. I am not sure why this needs "approval" There is no censorship here so long as what is written is done with the best of intents and historical facts can be supported with references. Many topics discussed at Avalon are controversial - it is up to the individual to discern truth from fiction once all opinions and references are tabled. Without all facts this task is impossible.

I have certainly gone with the "rolled out" version of truth on the matter and if this is not correct, then I (as well as others) would appreciate the information you have that could highlight where written history is wrong. And given the propensity of the ptw to write history to suit themselves I should not be shocked to discover that this as well as incorrect. We need to right the wrongs - no-one else is doing it.

Please start your thread, it appears you have much to tell and I look forward to what will in all liklihood be a healthy debate with members here.

(If you have safety concerns, I understand the topic can be stored as members only - at the discretion of Bill and/or Mods)

Witchy

(Addit: If you cant start threads yet on your own, just ask (via a PM is probably best) and we can start it for you and let you run with it.)

I fully agree with you about debating topics to get to the bottom of it.
The reason I put that up about Bill approving it, is that I don't want things getting out of hand and causing trouble and then I get the finger pointed at me as if I am a troll or something.
And it is his forum, it is a point of courtesy seeing as some of the places members might view the info from would class that act as a criminal offence.


I read the other day (didnt keep the link) that Aldous (Hitlers father) was none other than the illigitimate son of Baron RC!

Alois is his father and no, they aren't from jewish blood. The usual version is that his mothers side is jewish.
There was a guy called Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichs Central Security Office and his superior, Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS ordered him on three seperate occasions to investigate this rumour.
The result was the same each time, no veracity at all. In fact, there were no jews at all in the region Hitlers family came from for hundreds of years due to expulsions.


Good question.

I don't think we Americans feel much guilt for not having stopped the Holocaust. That would require more awareness of the events and time order of history than most of my compatriots can offer.

Rather I think we get shamed into guilt anytime we raise any criticism of or withhold any support for Zionism, on the grounds (confusing them with Jews) that this dishonors the victims of the Greatest and Most Horrible Crime in Human History (or so we're made to feel.)

UK Conservative MP Zak Goldsmith has just divorced his wife and run off with Alice Rothschild.

His brother Ben is married to another Rothschild.

His father Jimmy Goldsmith the billionaire (Jew) some say, indeed many say, is the father of Princess Diana.

Jews now say, Ahhhh this means Prince William is Jewish !

They should be tarred and feathered the lot of them.

The royals are interesting, that is for sure.
Google this for yourself, that prince charles was circumcised by a mohel and so was william and harry.


first thing. i have "jewish" blood. A great grandmother of German "jewish" descent. However, as she was probably Ashkanazi was she really jewish? Its a very complex and deliberately obtuse area to research. I am always wary of areas where we are told what to think. Holocaust denial is an area of free speech that is verboten. This sets of my alarm. As most Zionists are Ashkanazi one has to ask, (and this is heresy) is Zion really a jewish state? I recommend the following radio broadcast if you really want to disappear down that particular rabbit hole.
http://www.argusoogradio.org/nl/2010/11/the-waterman-files-%e2%80%93-19-november-2010/

Does any of your family have any input on the holohoax story?
Oh, and your instincts serve you well, anything that is forbidden to discuss should draw us like moths to a flame.


Do you believe that it happened as is pushed today?

Teakai
30th January 2011, 10:08
Wasnt he talking about a cute chick on the slopes???? as in playboy bunny???????

Ooooh, I was making a rather seedy joke, Witchy - and speaking of seedy, I sent you and email about them :)

SKAWF
30th January 2011, 17:42
what i'm about to post covers this, and a lot of other subjects.
its a link to the transcript of a very... candid interview with a jewish senators assistant. (a zionist)
it had a 'unique' effect on me. it left me feeling a whole spectrum of things, but rendered me unable to express a single one of them.
ive read it to two other people, it left them in exactly the same state.
i should say that as none of the contained words are mine, i have no concern about any of it being anti semetic.
the fact that the guy was jewish puts pay to all of that.
it will give you an in depth look into a world thats kept hidden from you.

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/Harold_Rosenthal.html

its not to be taken lightly

steve

VajraYaya
30th January 2011, 21:12
Fred259 Hi

No I don't mean celts. In essence there is no such people as the celts, for this was yet another 17th century english invention to suppress & confuse the masses. It also doubled up for intertwining false bloodlines into the Cymry history to which this enabling them to falsely claim a throne, but these false monarchs still need the jacobs pillow / stone of Skone (scone). The Cymry has this title by birth right.

War machine:
We are still fighting for our language to have equal rights for the zionists / english are trying their hardest to stamp it out. S4c is the only Cymraeg language channel on the planet, but westmister is in the process of closing it down. Cymraeg, Coelbren & hieroglyphics are all the same & hold the very key of history. If the masses start to study the language then the game is up for the frauds. (Look up Alan Wilson & Baram Blackette - MOSES IN THE HIEROGLYPHS) http://www.kingarthurslegacy.com/bookmoses.html Suppressed historians.
Our history is refused in schools including Uni. While english brainwashing make-believe is forced on the world. Our culture is refused sponsorship & suppressed while the likes of morris dancing is promoted etc.
The only language that isn't allowed to be spoken in the house of commons is Cymraeg, while the likes of german & yiddish is used.
Political red tape along with their law lords, shills, trolls etc are doing their damned hardest to erase the Cymry once & for all. The list is endless.

An example is in my sig. How many Americans know that Cymraeg is on the monument? Two years ago scaffolding was erected for Bush wanted it removed. He failed.
The same time he ordered the plaque of Prince Madoc to be taken down & destroyed. It was taken down, but a higher power ordered it to be put back up.


Bryn..

I find all that you are writing about here exceptionally fascinating. My grandmother was a Williams from that place in Wales with the longest name. [and my Dad is Rh-] [I still have cousins there.] I’ve always been drawn to learn more about her and that culture but haven’t come across much. I’ll be watching what you write on this topic. IT has always really resonated with me. I have been to many countries but not yet Wales. It is at the top of my list. I have a feeling that it is a place that will resonate very deeply with me.


About this topic I really think we have to be careful when looking at this issue that we just shouldn’t take everything that is said to be truth or even a plausible theory. Someone posted a picture of Ernst Zundel. I know someone that knew him and he was a psycho. He just hated anything Jewish and his questioning came from that hatred. He headed and supported neo-nazi efforts in Canada. So I wouldn’t take anything he said seriously.

The Anti Defamation League [ADL] has done an excellent job of demonizing any questioning of Israeli policy, behaviour or deeper questioning of history as anti-semitic. You are simply not allowed to question anything Jewish or Zionist. It is simply a huge problem when these people use the history or suffering of their people to justify inflicting equal or greater suffering on others, namely Palestinians.

Over the years I have interviewed many holocaust survivors and you simply cannot help by be moved at the stories of their suffering and the utter barbarity that they experienced. To deny their suffering is to deny a big part of humanity. You just can’t.. BUT the ADL has really helped to do a good job of identifying that culture with this particular suffering. This at the same time has served to take attention away from and even deny other and some larger atrocities; the Ukrainian genocide under Stalin, the Irish genocide, the 800,00 East Timorese killed by Indonesians, the Armenians, Kurds.. there are many.

I get the feeling that there are a lot of people now that are becoming immune to and beginning to see through the Zionist propaganda and are starting to be brave enough to seek answers to some of these forbidden questions. Especially when you see Hasidic Rabbis, Israeli soldiers, academics and young “Shministim” who are becoming very vocal.:eek:

Paul
30th January 2011, 21:22
... only what I have a hard time understanding is why the US citizens feel that way ... what is it that makes the everyday people feel guilt about it?


Good question.

I don't think we Americans feel much guilt for not having stopped the Holocaust. That would require more awareness of the events and time order of history than most of my compatriots can offer.

Rather I think we get shamed into guilt anytime we raise any criticism of or withhold any support for Zionism, on the grounds (confusing them with Jews) that this dishonors the victims of the Greatest and Most Horrible Crime in Human History (or so we're made to feel.)

Perhaps a better way of describing this guilt trip would be as follows.

It resembles a family with a brutal father, a co-dependent mother and some children. The mother is afraid of saying anything that might shed doubt on the father (and if she forgets or performs inadequately in this duty, she is "reminded", brutally.) The children seeing this will suppress their fear of and anger toward their father, usually daring at most to only whisper doubts to closely trusted friends years later.

In this analogy, the co-dependent mother stands for the American media, political and education establishments. The children are us ordinary Americans. The father is a manifest in present society in such forms as the Neocons, Zionists, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, ... Speak against them or their schemes and you risk being labeled an anti-Semite. Being labeled anti-Semite is dangerous. Those in too public view so labeled are sometimes visibly punished.

In psych-lab experiments, one can get mice to live in terror of touching a particular object, even passing the fear down to subsequent generations, with a few occassional shocks. The fear of not knowing whether touching the object will shock or not seems worse than the fear of the shock itself.

There is a strong and deeply rooted negative energy behind this. The force behind the Neocons, Zionists, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, ... goes back thousands of years, and follows bloodlines.

Carmody
30th January 2011, 21:29
The royals are interesting, that is for sure.
Google this for yourself, that prince Charles was circumcised by a mohel and so was William and Harry.



I will take my response to this over to 'the key' thread in the Charles area.. You will see why. it will provide a 'eureka' moment, for many.

Lord Sidious
30th January 2011, 21:30
Over the years I have interviewed many holocaust survivors and you simply cannot help by be moved at the stories of their suffering and the utter barbarity that they experienced. To deny their suffering is to deny a big part of humanity. You just can’t..

You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else of course, but to say that we can't deny someones suffering is a huge statement to make for a truth seeker.
Many, if not most of the so called survivor stories I have seen contain ''facts'' that can only be taken with faith, for if you used science, they would be seen to be fantasy.
One thing that always got my attention is that no one questions how many of these ''survivors'' there are around the world and then compared that to how many were interred.
Something that I find VERY offensive is this holohoax crap being used to guilt trip millions of people and people who have done nothing, let alone take part in a fantasy.
Funny thing is, the jews are more captive to this fantasy than anyone else.

mrmalco
30th January 2011, 22:11
My first wife was Jewish. Her family, I know for sure, lost people. Through her I met lots of other Jewish people with holes in their families. A friend of ours researched - and has published a book about the few remains that she could find in Poland of the Jewish culture that thrived there before the war but has almost completely gone. For a couple of years I ran the main UK coordination of Aid programmes supporting the Polish people (back in Solidarnocz times) and traveled quite a bit there before the iron curtain lifted. I knew many Poles well personally - there was definitely a massive pogrom situation there. One of my closest friends (not Jewish) was a prisoner in Auschwitz ... he hardly spoke of it but he said enough ...

I think Zionism is groundless especially in view of what is known genetically about the Semitic roots of the Palestinians and the largely non-Semitic roots of very many Ashkenazim. Cf. Professor Schlomo Sand's book: The Invention of the Jewish People. The key point being that Judaism was in many places (Eastern Europe and the Kazari Empire, the Yemen and North Africa) an evangelical faith that brought about mass conversions of non-Semites. Even if the Semitic credentials of most of the Israelis were impeccable I still would not accept the idea that, because a religious text of 2500+ years ago expressed a territorial claim, that claim should in these times somehow hold the world hostage in an unresolvable dispute.

Having said that, from my own direct experience I know that an extraordinary mass murder of Jewish people (perhaps many actually non-Semitic) did take place. My in-law family and friends were not talking propaganda in the privacy of our home, they were confiding the awfulness that had happened to them. The same with my friends in Poland.

Lord Sidious
30th January 2011, 23:02
My first wife was Jewish. Her family, I know for sure, lost people. Through her I met lots of other Jewish people with holes in their families. A friend of ours researched - and has published a book about the few remains that she could find in Poland of the Jewish culture that thrived there before the war but has almost completely gone. For a couple of years I ran the main UK coordination of Aid programmes supporting the Polish people (back in Solidarnocz times) and traveled quite a bit there before the iron curtain lifted. I knew many Poles well personally - there was definitely a massive pogrom situation there. One of my closest friends (not Jewish) was a prisoner in Auschwitz ... he hardly spoke of it but he said enough ...

I think Zionism is groundless especially in view of what is known genetically about the Semitic roots of the Palestinians and the largely non-Semitic roots of very many Ashkenazim. Cf. Professor Schlomo Sand's book: The Invention of the Jewish People. The key point being that Judaism was in many places (Eastern Europe and the Kazari Empire, the Yemen and North Africa) an evangelical faith that brought about mass conversions of non-Semites. Even if the Semitic credentials of most of the Israelis were impeccable I still would not accept the idea that, because a religious text of 2500+ years ago expressed a territorial claim, that claim should in these times somehow hold the world hostage in an unresolvable dispute.

Having said that, from my own direct experience I know that an extraordinary mass murder of Jewish people (perhaps many actually non-Semitic) did take place. My in-law family and friends were not talking propaganda in the privacy of our home, they were confiding the awfulness that had happened to them. The same with my friends in Poland.

There is no doubt that lots of jews died in the period known to us as the second world war. To then extrapolate that out to ''the evil nazis murdered them all'', not that I am saying this is your view, is at best, a hard claim to back up.
The holohoax is a religion. It requires no proof, it is based on faith and anyone that questions it is a heretic and treated as such.
There is so much science that can be applied to this, but we can't do that because of emotion.
IF we are to break free of the yoke around all our necks, we have to stop this crap and start thinking. I know the topic is emotional for many, but what if you have been lied to?
Wouldn't you want to know? And know why? And by whom?
I sure as well would if I were of the belief that parts of my family were exterminated when they weren't.

Teakai
31st January 2011, 00:19
My first wife was Jewish. Her family, I know for sure, lost people. Through her I met lots of other Jewish people with holes in their families. A friend of ours researched - and has published a book about the few remains that she could find in Poland of the Jewish culture that thrived there before the war but has almost completely gone. For a couple of years I ran the main UK coordination of Aid programmes supporting the Polish people (back in Solidarnocz times) and traveled quite a bit there before the iron curtain lifted. I knew many Poles well personally - there was definitely a massive pogrom situation there. One of my closest friends (not Jewish) was a prisoner in Auschwitz ... he hardly spoke of it but he said enough ...

I think Zionism is groundless especially in view of what is known genetically about the Semitic roots of the Palestinians and the largely non-Semitic roots of very many Ashkenazim. Cf. Professor Schlomo Sand's book: The Invention of the Jewish People. The key point being that Judaism was in many places (Eastern Europe and the Kazari Empire, the Yemen and North Africa) an evangelical faith that brought about mass conversions of non-Semites. Even if the Semitic credentials of most of the Israelis were impeccable I still would not accept the idea that, because a religious text of 2500+ years ago expressed a territorial claim, that claim should in these times somehow hold the world hostage in an unresolvable dispute.

Having said that, from my own direct experience I know that an extraordinary mass murder of Jewish people (perhaps many actually non-Semitic) did take place. My in-law family and friends were not talking propaganda in the privacy of our home, they were confiding the awfulness that had happened to them. The same with my friends in Poland.

Hi mrmalco, I too think that a great many Jewish people suffered terribly during WWll - only they are not the only ones by a long shot to have done so - and people still today are suffering greatly under the same deception the money masters are using to make their wars.
The thing that we are questioning (at least I am) is whether this was a complete set-up by the zionist/illuminat/elitists/etc to bring about the furthering of their global enterprise.

They have been hiding behind the Jewish religion for centuries.
They have been hiding in the Chrisitan religion also.
They hide wherever it best suits them - they have no real religious interests except for the control it gives them over people.

People have been too subdued by the human horror of it to really look closely at what lies beneath.

Edit to add:Lordsidious, I read your post after I'd posted this and so it's pretty much a repeat.
:)

Fred259
31st January 2011, 00:47
[QUOTE]The thing that we are questioning (at least I am) is whether this was a complete set-up by the zionist/illuminat/elitists/etc to bring about the furthering of their global enterprise.
Probably, Yes.



(See my post below on Virgins, and the manipulation of meaning etc.)

Carmody
31st January 2011, 00:49
Interestingly enough, lying is an integral part of your lifestyle if you are a sociopath, and along with that, keeping a lot of things secret. To non-sociopaths, all this lying is a laughing matter, because they can't possibly imagine living like that, but to sociopaths, lying is a practiced and well polished skill. The same goes for keeping so many things hidden. Both characteristics serve them well in their natural domination of leadership positions.

To test if one is dealing with a sociopath.

I fix their wagons by feeding them with more data and feelings oriented material then they can handle. Eventually.... they trip up and expose themselves.

warning: You have to be better at discernment and fine details than they are.

Fred259
31st January 2011, 00:54
Ah virgin births now there’s an interesting topic. There was a time not that long ago and I would have been, “Virgin births? Puh-leeeze!!”
Now, who knows.
This would have been considered a virgin birth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRPV-NlNUdU&playnext=1&list=PLD882A32E01300D50

And look at all the flying saucer references in mediaeval religious art.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH0FGRpx8-Q

Might be something to it.

This is a step up from holograms
:)

"Virgin"

This words Virgin has been changed and manipulated over the years.

Today historians believe that in Bible times this word meant “Young Girl”

That’s all it meant, so I might come to your home and ask about your family,

“How are your son and the virgin”?

How often have you heard this either from the bible or church?

“ Angels and Virgins were singing and dancing”

Surely this just means that young girls were singing and dancing?

Over the years words have changed. Kid, or Kid Goat! means a young goat.

My daughter (aged 14) laughs at me for calling a dress a frock! But 30 years ago the word frock was quite normal.

Radio or Wireless, The word wireless has gone out of fashion now, except for people like Bill and me!

So you could say this was early mind control or manipulation. Someone on the boards posted yesterday the various changes that have taken place in the Bible, the King James Version, the New English Version and the illuminati version! These changes have had an effect on our understanding and meaning of words.

In Africa today it’s quite normal for young girls 13-15 to get pregnant. It’s not normal or shouldn’t be within our western society, but in developing nations this is normal.

The real question is who was Mary? And who was Mary Magdalene and James Jesus’ half sister and brother?

Was Jesus actually the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra?

Did Jesus marry his half sister Mary Magdalene and have children?

Historians are very certain that Mary Magdalene escaped to Gaul ( France) during the time of the Christians Crusade, and the rise of the Roman Empire, before it became the Holy Roman Empire.

Was this the bloodline of Christ via Charlemagne and Clovis the founder of the Merovingian Kings and Queens of Europe?

Fred259
31st January 2011, 01:32
You know, I'm only down under from the perspective that you're up top- don't you Fred? We're a planet in the middle of space whose to say which way is up?
:)

We are the right way up and you are the wrong way down! It’s a leg pull Teakai, you know we love you.

However

To borrow your expression: “It’s a complete set up”

Why so,

Those English, not us Scots,Welsh or Irish the English.

The world is not as it is.? By this I mean the actual land mass differs completely with what is featured on a map or chart.

That’s why “it’s a complete set up”

When Charles Everest a cartographer was “measuring” India during the days of the empire he sent his work back to London.

This was a new land that Britain had “acquired” and this is how it looks said Everest.

When the new land was mapped on the chart, and the remainder of the discovered world added, things did not look right.

Remember this was imperialism you could say a bit like the US today with its expeditions into foreign lands. Divide and conquer.

The British having acquired these new lands and painted them red, were concerned that these newly acquired lands were in fact vastly larger than the pin prick on the map that ruled over them!

This caused much head scratching and so it was decided that changing the scale on the chart would increase the actual land mass for northerly latitude nations and decrease the actual land mass of those nations between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. That includes you!

This means that India and Australia looker smaller than they actually are, and Greenland Norway and Britain look larger than they actually are.

By making Britain look larger the locals in those nations recently “acquired” would neither question nor consider the taxation that was about to be imposed.

Therefore it was “A complete Set Up”

For the avoidance of doubt Britain is 6x2 that is 600 miles x 200 miles (+- 25 miles)

The only country in the world that is correctly to scale is Borneo, which is why the Borneo Skew Orthomorphic Projection is the right choice for world mapping. However Borneo was British and taxation was due, so change the scale to make Britain look bigger!

Teakai
31st January 2011, 02:58
We are the right way up and you are the wrong way down! It’s a leg pull Teakai, you know we love you.

However

To borrow your expression: “It’s a complete set up”

Why so,

Those English, not us Scots,Welsh or Irish the English.

The world is not as it is.? By this I mean the actual land mass differs completely with what is featured on a map or chart.

That’s why “it’s a complete set up”

When Charles Everest a cartographer was “measuring” India during the days of the empire he sent his work back to London.

This was a new land that Britain had “acquired” and this is how it looks said Everest.

When the new land was mapped on the chart, and the remainder of the discovered world added, things did not look right.

Remember this was imperialism you could say a bit like the US today with its expeditions into foreign lands. Divide and conquer.

The British having acquired these new lands and painted them red, were concerned that these newly acquired lands were in fact vastly larger than the pin prick on the map that ruled over them!

This caused much head scratching and so it was decided that changing the scale on the chart would increase the actual land mass for northerly latitude nations and decrease the actual land mass of those nations between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. That includes you!

This means that India and Australia looker smaller than they actually are, and Greenland Norway and Britain look larger than they actually are.

By making Britain look larger the locals in those nations recently “acquired” would neither question nor consider the taxation that was about to be imposed.

Therefore it was “A complete Set Up”

For the avoidance of doubt Britain is 6x2 that is 600 miles x 200 miles (+- 25 miles)

The only country in the world that is correctly to scale is Borneo, which is why the Borneo Skew Orthomorphic Projection is the right choice for world mapping. However Borneo was British and taxation was due, so change the scale to make Britain look bigger!

That is truly fascinating, Fred.(and I mean that despite what's to follow)

The only other thing is that England, wishing to be seen as rulers of the world could not possibly have their land mass on the bottom and so while they were making the maps they did an artisitc flip and behold England was at the top and Australia was - down under.
It's a scam of the 'ptb'

OK - I was joking, but, you know, they could have done that. They lied about the size of the landmass after all, did they lie about which way was up as well???
Hmmmmmmm :lol:

Teakai
31st January 2011, 03:08
"Virgin"

This words Virgin has been changed and manipulated over the years.

Today historians believe that in Bible times this word meant “Young Girl”

That’s all it meant, so I might come to your home and ask about your family,

“How are your son and the virgin”?

How often have you heard this either from the bible or church?

“ Angels and Virgins were singing and dancing”

Surely this just means that young girls were singing and dancing?

Over the years words have changed. Kid, or Kid Goat! means a young goat.

My daughter (aged 14) laughs at me for calling a dress a frock! But 30 years ago the word frock was quite normal.

Radio or Wireless, The word wireless has gone out of fashion now, except for people like Bill and me!

So you could say this was early mind control or manipulation. Someone on the boards posted yesterday the various changes that have taken place in the Bible, the King James Version, the New English Version and the illuminati version! These changes have had an effect on our understanding and meaning of words.

In Africa today it’s quite normal for young girls 13-15 to get pregnant. It’s not normal or shouldn’t be within our western society, but in developing nations this is normal.

The real question is who was Mary? And who was Mary Magdalene and James Jesus’ half sister and brother?

Was Jesus actually the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra?

Did Jesus marry his half sister Mary Magdalene and have children?

Historians are very certain that Mary Magdalene escaped to Gaul ( France) during the time of the Christians Crusade, and the rise of the Roman Empire, before it became the Holy Roman Empire.

Was this the bloodline of Christ via Charlemagne and Clovis the founder of the Merovingian Kings and Queens of Europe?

Hi Fred - but the young virgins were called so because they were virgins, right. Unknown by man (in the biblical sense) So a virgin birth is what?

I did read that it was a Greek custom that there were two marriages (I guess the first was a type of engagement), only sometimes the female would become pregnant before the second marriage took place and, apparently children conceived at this stage were considered to be virgin births.

Can't answer any of the Jesus questions - have read so many angles ranging from Jesus never existed, to Jesus' father raped Mary, to Jesus was a twin and his real name was Marcus to Jesus is an ET to Jesus is from a bloodline of kings.
It's all grist for the mill until it isn't :)

If you have a particular theory, I'd love to hear it.

witchy1
31st January 2011, 03:32
The reason I put that up about Bill approving it, is that I don't want things getting out of hand and causing trouble and then I get the finger pointed at me as if I am a troll or something.

Lord Sidious, if you make reasoned non emotional statements supported with verifiable evidence then it is not you with the problem. It can only be truth and NO-ONE can argue that. The reason they might get upset is that is shakes their beliefs, but on the upside it might open their minds to what is really going on.

Call me naive, does it HAVE to be a religion thing.. can we not have a reasoned discussion about the facts of the matter. I am sorry, I just dont subscribe to the notion of any organized religion - I dont understand it and I dont want to. That people actually define their very being as "x" religion, is exactly mind control - that in turn leads to complete co-dependancy and prevents them from being who they can be. They stop exploring for themselves and start following, believing and relying on the leader - its a cult. (IMHO)


the debate that I am offering usually gets heated, especially for jews Then bringing in an emotional (religious) persepctive serves no purpose to the discussion.


I read the other day (didnt keep the link) that Aldous (Hitlers father) was none other than the illigitimate son of Baron RC!
Alois is his father and no, they aren't from jewish blood. The usual version is that his mothers side is jewish

Please re-read my statement - I did not ask anything about being Jewish and was not in any way referring to any religion, it was a question about him being the offspring of RC - Rothchilds only. (yes I spelt his name wrong)

I dont care about a persons religion - they have a right to choose their faith and I would not interfere with that right. However I do not expect anyone to force their point of view on anyone else and expect that a normally functioning human being will take on board all side of a discussion before making any decisions.
Discussing the religious aspect will only bring strong emotion/belief into the equation, which will derail the discussion

I am interested in the insane bottom feeders at the top of the pyramid and how they control the planet. WW2 was instigated as way to achieve something (nothing ever happens without a reason) - and without a well researched, non-judgemental discussion we will never know what the purpose was. We know who financed it - prescott shrub, RC etc - all of whom are pefectly insane.

Was it a simply a propoganda deception? If so for what purpose?
Was it simply to show the planet that they have the power to do with humanity whatever they want?
Was it a depopulation method..... Did it work????
Was it a large experiment on humanity - If so to what end?
Was it to create palestine/isreal state, (without the war this would not have happened as I understand) if so why - it follows that it can only have been to concentrate a particular type of person in one area? That then begs the question why. Perhaps they are being depopulated with all the depleted uranium....
Why do the states provide so much monetary support for Isreal when they are broke??? Bizzare---I just dont know, but would very much like to.
In fact we have a right to know

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 04:00
Lord Sidious, if you make reasoned non emotional statements supported with verifiable evidence then it is not you with the problem. It can only be truth and NO-ONE can argue that. The reason they might get upset is that is shakes their beliefs, but on the upside it might open their minds to what is really going on.

Oh, I am fully aware of where I would stand as far as not being the cause of the trouble, but being a moderator elsewhere, I know how problematic forum wars can be, so out of respect for Bill, the project and the members, I would prefer we don't get one going. I would like to debate freely if possible.


Call me naive, does it HAVE to be a religion thing.. can we not have a reasoned discussion about the facts of the matter. I am sorry, I just dont subscribe to the notion of any organized religion - I dont understand it and I dont want to. That people actually define their very being as "x" religion, is exactly mind control - that in turn leads to complete co-dependancy and prevents them from being who they can be. They stop exploring for themselves and start following, believing and relying on the leader - its a cult. (IMHO)

Me too, I don't get organised religion. I don't need or want someone to tell me how to communicate with that which created me and that I am a part of, if they are going to use their doctrine.


Then bringing in an emotional (religious) persepctive serves no purpose to the discussion.

Jew isn't necessarily a religious description only, it can be an ethnic describer too.


Please re-read my statement - I did not ask anything about being Jewish and was not in any way referring to any religion, it was a question about him being the offspring of RC - Rothchilds only. (yes I spelt his name wrong)

I dont care about a persons religion - they have a right to choose their faith and I would not interfere with that right. However I do not expect anyone to force their point of view on anyone else and expect that a normally functioning human being will take on board all side of a discussion before making any decisions.
Discussing the religious aspect will only bring strong emotion/belief into the equation, which will derail the discussion

In this case, I was using it as an ethnic descriptor.


I am interested in the insane bottom feeders at the top of the pyramid and how they control the planet. WW2 was instigated as way to achieve something (nothing ever happens without a reason) - and without a well researched, non-judgemental discussion we will never know what the purpose was. We know who financed it - prescott shrub, RC etc - all of whom are pefectly insane.

Was it a simply a propoganda deception? If so for what purpose?
Was it simply to show the planet that they have the power to do with humanity whatever they want?
Was it a depopulation method..... Did it work????
Was it a large experiment on humanity - If so to what end?
Was it to create palestine/isreal state, (without the war this would not have happened as I understand) if so why - it follows that it can only have been to concentrate a particular type of person in one area? That then begs the question why. Perhaps they are being depopulated with all the depleted uranium....
Why do the states provide so much monetary support for Isreal when they are broke??? Bizzare---I just dont know, but would very much like to.
In fact we have a right to know

Everything ''they'' do has multiple layers of benefits for them. These wars just happen to kill off the top of the gene pool each round.
Think about this, when they conscript people, they only take the best unless it really hits the fan, then they take everyone.
So, the best go to war, the rest stay home and breed, thereby bringing down the quality of the genepool.
I suspect a lot of powers described as paranormal are inherited and by lowering the quality of the genepool, the powers are diluted to the point of eradication.
That is just one reason, but there are many more.

Chicodoodoo
31st January 2011, 05:16
To test if one is dealing with a sociopath.

I fix their wagons by feeding them with more data and feelings oriented material then they can handle. Eventually.... they trip up and expose themselves.

warning: You have to be better at discernment and fine details than they are.

It sounds simple, but it is not. Even trained psychologists have been completely fooled. A good friend of mine is exactly that, a trained psychologist, and he is certain that George H. W. Bush is a fine, upstanding human being. The average person doesn't even know what a sociopath is, much less their defining characteristics and personality deficits. Women can be married to them for decades and never recognize the manipulation they have fallen for.

Carmody
31st January 2011, 05:21
I've dealt with sociopaths. Directly. It can get scary. :) Yes, it is not simple. It's a battle of wits. In all cases so far, I've managed to smoke them out. The question is if it can be done to a level and time frame that is workable for the given person(s) involved.

The thing bout being a sociopath is their limitations in expression can be less hindered by emotions... and in that moment they can skip by the reasoning limits of the persons they are working with or manipulating. This gives them what can be a powerful advantage, in the right hands.

I put them into positions where the cracks they inherently have -show. And there is no telling what those will be, until the given situation is in front of one.

The chink in the Armour is always the same: A mis-statement in emotional logic and connectivity.

Fred259
31st January 2011, 12:10
Hi Fred - but the young virgins were called so because they were virgins, right. Unknown by man (in the biblical sense) So a virgin birth is what?I did read that it was a Greek custom that there were two marriages (I guess the first was a type of engagement), only sometimes the female would become pregnant before the second marriage took place and, apparently children conceived at this stage were considered to be virgin births.

Can't answer any of the Jesus questions - have read so many angles ranging from Jesus never existed, to Jesus' father raped Mary, to Jesus was a twin and his real name was Marcus to Jesus is an ET to Jesus is from a bloodline of kings.
It's all grist for the mill until it isn't :)

If you have a particular theory, I'd love to hear it.

The girls were called virgins.

In those days, it didn’t have the same meaning as it does in our society today.

A young virgin was just a “young girl” what we would call teenagers.

So a young virgin had a baby by conception, in the same we were all conceived.

It’s a play on words and manipulation of the mind. I told you about my doctor. She in turn told me that ovaries are the most imbedded organ in the body. How could you have a virgin birth, its impossible?

So today the translation would be a teenage pregnancy…

Fred259
31st January 2011, 14:10
That is truly fascinating, Fred.(and I mean that despite what's to follow)

[QUOTE]The only other thing is that England, wishing to be seen as rulers of the world could not possibly have their land mass on the bottom and so while they were making the maps they did an artisitc flip and behold England was at the top and Australia was - down under.
It's a scam of the 'ptb'

Yes Spot on!


OK - I was joking, but, you know, they could have done that. They lied about the size of the landmass after all, did they lie about which way was up as well???
Well they increased the size of those nations in a higher latitude (i.e. Britain and New Zealand) and decrease the size of those nations closer to the equator. The rate of decrease of land mass increases towards the equator. The Increase of the land mass on the chart in higher latitudes and the decrease of land mass towards the equator is calculated by the secant of the latitude.



Absolutely,

Because the world isn’t round, the best projection to use is the Borneo skew. In Borneo land masses are correctly scaled to the chart. The same is also true of all the other nations on the equator, but they reduced the scale at the equator and expanded the scale above the tropic of Cancer in the north and the tropic of Capricorn in the south. This is called a polar stereographic projection (PSP)

Remember it wasn’t just Britain, the French were in New Caledonia, the Spanish in South America, the Dutch in the East Indies, this is how they conned you and made you pay taxes to these little pin prick nation in the north !

PSP projections are used in school atlases and world maps on the office wall, but the real world (the land mass) look completely different. To borrow your expression “it’s a complete set up! (Those English again! Never mind they stole our Oil & Gas so I understand how you feel!)

In order to resolve this and have all land masses correctly scaled you need to redraw the map of the world CORRECTLY, with the North Pole becoming the east pole and the south pole the west pole. The northern hemisphere would be the right hemisphere and the southern hemisphere the left hemisphere. The prime meridian would be the equator and everything would be to scale.

Magnetic north would remain the same but all the bearings would need to be changed, a 10 minute job. This chart would be called a Teakai Skew Orthomorphic Projection,(TSOP) and everything about it would be correct instead of what we have at the moment, which is all wrong.

To be honest it’s a Belgium called Mercator you have to thank for this. (Why do I have thoughts that you will be standing for the Australian parliament!)

Now land masses are correctly scaled. Australia, South Africa and India (all British Empire who paid the taxes) would look vast and Britain Holland and France (who received the taxes) would look like pin pricks. What is correct about this is that NOW all nations landmass is to scale. But why would they do this all they wanted to do was tax you!

The same applies in the southern hemisphere, Antarctica is huge and NZ is over scaled. The Kiwi’s need to be brought down a size! The same with Antarctica. (I do not wish to create problems in the southern hemisphere but seriously the Kiwis are over sized, in much the same we are in Britain all due to a higher latitude.)

If you take a banana and set it vertically on your desk. Darwin is at the top, and Sydney is at the bottom, this gives some idea of the size of Australia and the earth’s curvature. (In very very simple terms!)

In the olden days Qantas used HF radio due to the vast distances.(and still do) VHF is only good for line of sight which is what we use in pin prick Britain. In Australia Qantas are refracting the radio wave against the ionosphere and earths surface like this. (Darwin Airport)* VVVVVVV*(Sydney Airport) due to the vast distances. Look at the banana how do you get over the problem of earth curvature. The curvature of the banana shows the scale and distances involved.


PS. We should have let the Greeks solve the mapping problem. Its hard to explain on the forum so I put it in question format.

Question) Why is the Black Sea called Black and the Red sea called Red?

Note) During this period of history remember they hadn’t discovered the Pacific, or Indian ocean so it was really just the waters around the old world and around Greece we are talking about.

Answer) The reason it’s called black and red is because the sea ABOVE the Mediterranean is in the North and compass colour for North is Black so that became the Black Sea.

The sea BELOW the Mediterranean is south and compass colour for south is Red, so this sea is called the Red Sea.


*Teaks - Look - Just for you, seriously especially just for you, I have changed my Avatar and put Australia in the North and Britain in the South. Now you will be able to look down on us.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection

Transdimensional Bean Pod
31st January 2011, 15:07
People say things like this all the time:

"The holocoust is just a handy alibi.
During the same time and in the same camps were also many thousand jypsies, mentally disordered germans and many from the occupied contries. You never hear about them.
No the jews have exclusive right to exploit this tragedy."

And honestly, who does this? Who claims exclusive rights? Who is disenfranchising gypsies and others?
Nobody. That's who.
This is thinly veiled racism.

Not the thread, but posts like this.

If you don't get it, check your head.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/naf09_2010/dd395-Zyklonsite.jpg


I actually know people who were involved with that debacle.

Thing is, they didn't do the right kind of test, because the film maker intentionally gave incomplete information to the man who did the chemical analysis. Had the chemist known the nature of the sample and what was being sought after (only, in this case, this is a lie - the truth was not the film maker's objective) he would have done different tests.

And then there's the eye witnesses.

Besides. The manner of death is not the debate?

Oy.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


If and this is a big if, we get clearance from Bill Ryan, I will take you on a ride through this construction known as the holocaust and to others, like me, as the holohoax.
Be aware that if we are allowed to debate this openly, some of the information is considered verboten in parts of Europe, but I assure you that I know probably more about this than all of you combined.
You may consider this an arrogant statement, but if we go ahead with a thread on this, I think I can foresee a time where you may agree with my statement.
Some of you may label me a holocaust denier, but I would ask you this, how could I deny something that never happened?
What actually did happen and what is said to have happened are, in most cases poles apart and a lot of the claims are scientifically impossible.

Now, onto your post here, the western allies never set foot in a ''death camp'', those are all conveniently located in what was the soviet zone and none of our nations had anyone see them.
There was indeed a massacre of SS guards, but it wasn't 20, it was 300.
The guards were mainly recovering SS combat troops not regular Totenkopfverbande guards.
This was at Dachau, the first camp that came into operation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre




David later recanted all his information and never made the videos after this one that he planned and spoke about during this vid.
The reason he recanted is that the jewish defense league threatened his life.



NEver happened?

LOL

You have a lot of dead people to account for?

iceni tribe
31st January 2011, 15:39
hi transdimensional

first off , ive been to auschwitz 1, birkenau (auschwitz 2),and buchenwald and seen these places with my own eyes ,read many books like( by bread alone ,mel mermelstein)(london has been informed by henry swiebocki) o and a partically harrowing one named ella which i strongly recomend , so i am no way a holocaust denier.
but here's the thing ........ok thier were between 1 to 2 million murders in those camps that the zionists will keep banging on about...............what gets me is nobody talks about the 24 million russians that perished in these camps , or after when they were disowned by stalin and sent to siberia to build the road of bones.
sorry daves artwork got under your skin, i guess thats why he did it ........ to provoke debate and a better understanding.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 15:39
People say things like this all the time:

"The holocoust is just a handy alibi.
During the same time and in the same camps were also many thousand jypsies, mentally disordered germans and many from the occupied contries. You never hear about them.
No the jews have exclusive right to exploit this tragedy."

And honestly, who does this? Who claims exclusive rights? Who is disenfranchising gypsies and others?
Nobody. That's who.
This is thinly veiled racism.

I don't get what you mean here. What are you on about racism?


Not the thread, but posts like this.

If you don't get it, check your head.

Ok, head checked, all works well, still doesn't get what you mean.



I actually know people who were involved with that debacle.

Thing is, they didn't do the right kind of test, because the film maker intentionally gave incomplete information to the man who did the chemical analysis. Had the chemist known the nature of the sample and what was being sought after (only, in this case, this is a lie - the truth was not the film maker's objective) he would have done different tests.

In my opinion you are wrong. The Polish government did the same analysis after Leuchter did and couldn't prove him wrong, so they sat on the results.


And then there's the eye witnesses.

And most of them report things that are not possible according to science, what do you say about that?


Besides. The manner of death is not the debate?

Oy.

Oh, it is, it is.
And the numbers too.




NEver happened?

LOL

You have a lot of dead people to account for?

Do I? How is that? I didn't claim x happened to y, they did and you seem to be affirming it.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 15:48
hi transdimensional

first off , ive been to auschwitz 1, birkenau (auschwitz 2),and buchenwald and seen these places with my own eyes ,read many books like( by bread alone ,mel mermelstein)(london has been informed by henry swiebocki) o and a partically harrowing one named ella which i strongly recomend , so i am no way a holocaust denier.
but here's the thing ........ok thier were between 1 to 2 million murders in those camps that the zionists will keep banging on about...............what gets me is nobody talks about the 24 million russians that perished in these camps , or after when they were disowned by stalin and sent to siberia to build the road of bones.
sorry daves artwork got under your skin, i guess thats why he did it ........ to provoke debate and a better understanding.

Murders in the camps? You mean the German controlled ones?
And that 24 million, is that in the gulags?

Carmody
31st January 2011, 16:46
The girls were called virgins.

In those days, it didn’t have the same meaning as it does in our society today.

A young virgin was just a “young girl” what we would call teenagers.

So a young virgin had a baby by conception, in the same we were all conceived.

It’s a play on words and manipulation of the mind. I told you about my doctor. She in turn told me that ovaries are the most imbedded organ in the body. How could you have a virgin birth, its impossible?

So today the translation would be a teenage pregnancy…

The understanding is:

Joseph was not a carpenter, he was a land and building owner.

Joseph was of the priestly class.

Priestly class or group, is granted to the first male born child, and that child was supposed to and ONLY be born at the correct time of year.

This meant that until that child was born as male and at the correct time of year, it was HANDS OFF for Joseph and Mary.

Apparently they had the hots for one another, and had an accident. Jesus was born at the wrong time of year.

How did that happen! "Oh, it was divine intervention!", Joseph and Mary say,....as they each get uncomfortable...clear their throats, and look in other directions.(How bout those bears?-talk sports or something---change the subject, quick!)

Jesus's brother JAMES was the actual first born male in the correct time frame of the given year. He ended up being the heir to the family line, etc.

Jesus was left to his own devices, to some degree..and becomes another 'Sir Francis Bacon', the socially and culturally illegitimate child of a powerful union, who is denied his heritage.

Transdimensional Bean Pod
31st January 2011, 16:50
Murders in the camps? You mean the German controlled ones?
And that 24 million, is that in the gulags?

I'm not going to debate with you. You dismiss out of hand the survivors' testimonies. You think you know more than everybody else, as you announced with your first post.

I learned a long time ago about the kind of posters that are and are not worth my time.

I'd just love to make you call the survivors I know (well, many have since passed), liars. To their faces. All of them. And then account for all of the people they loved, who died.

But of course, this will never happen, and you do not care.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 17:25
I'm not going to debate with you. You dismiss out of hand the survivors' testimonies. You think you know more than everybody else, as you announced with your first post.

I learned a long time ago about the kind of posters that are and are not worth my time.

I'd just love to make you call the survivors I know (well, many have since passed), liars. To their faces. All of them. And then account for all of the people they loved, who died.

But of course, this will never happen, and you do not care.

This is the exact type of thing I am trying to avoid.
Your post is only about emotion, nothing else.
I don't know the ''survivors'' you know, I am talking in a general way. Most of them tell us things in their stories that are not possible. If that is the case, I don't care who are what they are, I am dubious straight away.
And you tell me that I dismiss them out of hand, yet you do the exact opposite. Is that not the same thing, but in a different alignment?
And then you tell me I am not worth your time, if that is so, why post this then?
The ones that need to read about this THE most are jews. First and foremost them, then Europeans. You know why?
We are both trapped in a paradigm of exploitation of our empathy and/or guilt.
Your attitude impedes the healing of those still trapped.
You can call me all the names you want, but that makes no difference, until we transcend this crap, we are stuck.

Transdimensional Bean Pod
31st January 2011, 18:09
This is the exact type of thing I am trying to avoid.
Your post is only about emtion, nothing else.
I don't know the ''survivors'' you know, I am talking in a general way. Most of them tell us things in their stories that are not possible. If that is the case, I don't care who are what they are, I am dubious straight away.
And you tell me that I dismiss them out of hand, yet you do the exact opposite. Is that not the same thing, but in a different alignment?
And then you tell me I am not worth your time, if that is so, why post this then?
The ones that need to read about this THE most are jews. First and foremost them, then Europeans. You know why?
We are both trappend in a paradigm of exploitation of our empathy and/or guild.
Your attitude impedes the healing of those still trapped.
You can call me all the names you want, but that makes no difference, until we transcend this crap, we are stuck.

Look. Try to understand how you present yourself.

You say things like, "Many, if not most of the so called survivor stories I have seen contain ''facts'' that can only be taken with faith, for if you used science, they would be seen to be fantasy." As if you would know. This is really just despicable, calling them all liars like that.

MEANWHILE...

"There was a guy called Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichs Central Security Office and his superior, Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS ordered him on three seperate occasions to investigate this rumour.
The result was the same each time, no veracity at all."

You believe in conspiracy theories, and pretend to believe in science, yet.... you can't fathom how the SS might fail to discover that Hitler has Jewish ancestry... even worse, you CONTINUE to believe their findings are accurate, despite SCIENCE now revealing otherwise.

Seems like you have a highly selective filter in terms of which sources are believable, and which are not. And again, in terms of which science is to be heard, and which, ignored.

You know what kind of person displays these kinds of internal inconsistencies?

A person with an agenda that means more to them than the truth.

This is a kind of person you can not argue with effectively, because they are not even aware of the extent to which they lie to themselves. There is no reasonable road through which to traverse a field of illogical denials.

I hope you someday come to understand.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 18:49
Look. Try to understand how you present yourself.

You say things like, "Many, if not most of the so called survivor stories I have seen contain ''facts'' that can only be taken with faith, for if you used science, they would be seen to be fantasy." As if you would know. This is really just despicable, calling them all liars like that.

So what do you want me to do? Believe fantasy stories because someone makes a claim that x happened to them?
And you notice I said many, if not most. How does that become I called them all liars?
You could at least pretend to be neutral.


MEANWHILE...

"There was a guy called Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichs Central Security Office and his superior, Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS ordered him on three seperate occasions to investigate this rumour.
The result was the same each time, no veracity at all."

You believe in conspiracy theories, and pretend to believe in science, yet.... you can't fathom how the SS might fail to discover that Hitler has Jewish ancestry... even worse, you CONTINUE to believe their findings are accurate, despite SCIENCE now revealing otherwise.

Did you think maybe, just maybe, those who ordered the investigation wanted to find out the truth to use against Hitler at a later date? That if in fact he did have jewish blood, they could depose him and take over?
And what are you on about science revealing otherwise?


Seems like you have a highly selective filter in terms of which sources are believable, and which are not. And again, in terms of which science is to be heard, and which, ignored.

You know what kind of person displays these kinds of internal inconsistencies?

A person with an agenda that means more to them than the truth.

You seem to be very judgemental, that isn't a good sign for someone seeking out the truth. If you can show me that anything I have said is wrong, I will acknowledge that. Will you do the same?


This is a kind of person you can not argue with effectively, because they are not even aware of the extent to which they lie to themselves. There is no reasonable road through which to traverse a field of illogical denials.

I hope you someday come to understand.

If you are going to continue to talk down to people, why not just stop posting?
I notice that as soon as someone disagrees with you, you make it personal and get narky, I don't think that is appreciated here.

Leon
31st January 2011, 19:01
Just to add to this,

I knew a man who lived in Triest, he spoke to many migrants leaving Europe in 1928. Most of the people leaving then were Jewish, he asked many why are you leaving here, they said something bad is going to happen in Germany.

A ducumentary show in Holland some years ago regarding Anne Frank, it this it was shown that the nazi's did not hunt Jewish people in Holland but that the Dutch betrayed the Jewish people to the Nazi's for money!

I know some people that have asked permission to ground-radar mass burial sites like Auschwitz, permission denied. Later on they managed to ground rader most of a mass buriel at a concentrations camp in Poland, before being removed the result showed that they found nothing there, no bone fragments, no teeth... this seemed rather odd!

I also read an articale on Zyklon B pellets used, it seems this substance leaves a blue stain on the walls of a chamber, non of this or even the slightest residue was found on Auschwitz gas chamber walls. after samples were taken and tested for this material. rather strange!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4230&d=1296499782

Also:

Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing Hitler rise to power?
Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing the death camps?

I do not believe this man killed himself, too many would protect him…

Transdimensional Bean Pod
31st January 2011, 19:06
Sidious.

Google DNA Hitler Jewish, and update your programming.

It's not in any way off topic or wrong to point out your logical inconsistencies. And it's a better use of my time than a point-by-point with a person so rooted in such faulty thinking.

It's disingenuous to now back peddle on the eyewitnesses. Much as it is to talk about other people's attitudes when you enter a thread announcing you know more than everybody else put together. (but let's not talk down to others, right?)

People disagree with me ALL OVER the place. And I don't talk down to any of them. Occasionally, people tick me off, and I address them. You just happen to be one of those handful of people.

When it comes to certain issues, folks like you need to be confronted, because not all conspiracy memes are harmless. This 'kick the jew' meme, is among the more insidious, and if you don't like my having emotions about it, tough luck.

I'm sorry to be the first person to hold up a mirror to your words.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 19:25
Sidious.

Google DNA Hitler Jewish, and update your programming.

Right, so you disagree with me and the logical conclusion is that I am programmed? How very enlightened of you.
If you are talking about this recent ''test'' where it is claimed that Hitler had jewish blood and african blood, do you really believe that? I mean really, not do you want to believe it.


It's not in any way off topic or wrong to point out your logical inconsistencies.

I would agree that if I am wrong, it isn't offtopic or wrong of a poster to show me.


And it's a better use of my time than a point-by-point with a person so rooted in such faulty thinking.

So your time is worth more than to honestly answer questions in a debate that you entered willingly?
Oh and thanks for showing me exactly what type of poster you are with every single post you make here.


It's disingenuous to now back peddle on the eyewitnesses.

You extrapolated a meaning from my words that isn't evident. If anything, you are the one being disingenuous. Outright dishonest to the verge of lying, actually.


Much as it is to talk about other people's attitudes when you enter a thread announcing you know more than everybody else put together. (but let's not talk down to others, right?)

How do you know that I don't know more about it from the other side? The common mainstream promoted side is one that lots are familiar with.
And my comment wasn't meant to be taken like that, but it does sound like that now you point it out to me.


People disagree with me ALL OVER the place. And I don't talk down to any of them.

Oh yes you do, you asked me in that other thread why am I interjecting between you and someone else you are talking down to.


Occasionally, people tick me off, and I address them. You just happen to be one of those handful of people.

People tick me off too, and you know what? When that happens, we have an opportunity to either settle or inflame the situation and it shows more about us than we might realise.


When it comes to certain issues, folks like you need to be confronted, because not all conspiracy memes are harmless. This 'kick the jew' meme, is among the more insidious, and if you don't like my having emotions about it, tough luck.

Where did I ''kick a jew'' at all here?
Is this conflict because you are jewish?


I'm sorry to be the first person to hold up a mirror to your words.

Yeah, because before you, no one had ever done that.
Get real.

slvrfx
31st January 2011, 19:34
Here are some facts, only a few of countless ones-

There was a census done in Europe before the war, and after. I believe the Red Cross had something to do with it, or maybe just has the facts about it. There were NO missing Jews, especially not to the tune of 6 million! There were people lost as a result of the war, but that was straight across the board.

Another fact is that if you comb through some of the earliest reports of those 6 million, you'll see that they kept dropping from that original figure, lower and lower, until it bottomed out around 150,000. (Do some reading.)

The second is something I have had a very personal experience with, because I was fortunate to have access to ALL of the copies of letters, journals, and magazine/newspaper articles and books, written by one Jesse George Murray, now deceased. Died in the early 1990's at the age of 89.

He was a journalist, an investigative reporter, in his youth, then worked for the gov. of the US. He had knowledge of the inside workings, and named names and told the true stories of key events. His wife was CIA, so they shared information. They both became ambassadors and were sent to many locations globally, with their particular assignments.

***After WWII, they were both sent to Germany to head the rebuilding program, which ultimately lasted 5 years.

They had very specific instructions to NOT hire any workers of German descent, which meant most were of Jewish descent.

Initially, these Jewish employees were very distant and distrustful, but after a few months, felt comfortable with George (he preferred this to Jesse) and his wife Virginia, and they started talking.

They ALL revealed THERE NEVER WAS A HOLOCAUST. Never a plan to exterminate the Jews. They'd never heard of such a thing, and they went about asking everyone they knew too, and the final, bottom line, was NO, it didn't happen.

Yes, there were camps, but there always are in the times of war, as peoples are being displaced, and yes, disease can run rampant (Typhoid, for instance which can decimate a healthy human being within 48 hours), kill thousands if not tens of thousands in a couple weeks, when so many people are living in such tight quarters, and yes, their were open pits, filled with bodies, because some disease had run rampant...

And of course, there was the human element. Guards and soldiers who abused the people, tormenting, torturing, raping...

And forced labor camps, also part of the War-Machine, which could explain men, women, and children being sent to separate camps...

And yes, there are people who say they were there, and I believe they were, and they saw these things happening, but isn't there a possibility that they have been given an explanation, which they readily accept?


The truth has been coming out, slowly from different quarters...for instance, one of the most famous Jews, who had a major influence on how we all perceived this, was Elli Wiesel, WHO ADMITTED his book on his being in a camp and the horrific conditions, WAS FICTION. (His admittance didn't happen until he was in his 80's I believe.)



So.....are you going to tell me the journals and letters I read, by Jesse George Murray were all fabricated?

With this, as with anything else, as we try to determine where the truth lies, you MUST consider, WHO HAD THE MOST TO GAIN?

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 19:42
Thanks for that slvrfx.
That is the type of post I am looking for, one that puts things up for debate without emotion, name calling and finger pointing.
I resent people implying I am doing this because I hate jews like our former forum buddy did.
I then saw that he had pulled that on another thread with someone else.

For the benefit of all readers here.
Let's get one thing straight, there is not one man or woman on this earth, me included that is immune from criticism of their deeds.
Crying anti-semitism because someone says something you don't like is the same tactic children use when they tell their parents they hate them because they couldn't have x.
Theoretically, we should be above that type of behaviour here as a lot, or most, I don't know, are in the process of having our consciousness expand and we should know better and do better.
If someone did post stuff that was considered to be an attack on another poster, I am fairly confident that Bill and his staff will sort that real quick.

Scout
31st January 2011, 20:19
''I just don't understand where the guilt is coming from on behalf of the ordinary everyday people to not question. Is it guilt - or is it fear, perhaps? Maybe it's just ignorance, lack of interest, I don't know - I'm just curious as to their motivation - or lack of.''

I have long wondered this myself, I would also argue that most North Americans feel similarly about 9/11.

Could it be, that deep down most of us are aware, perhaps on a psychic level, that we are ignorant to what is really going on around us? I sometimes think that we are subconsciously aware of our lack of awareness, and this may be a source of guilt.

We pause, momentarily, from the endless cycle of consumption, from the learned patterned behavior of helplessness, to feel guilt about our ignorance and the suffering of others.

Only to return, with a sigh, back to the trough...

slvrfx
31st January 2011, 20:36
Takes a lot of strength and diligence to 'kick against the pricks'. I believe people KNOW instinctively, but they also know they have spouses and children, jobs, mortgages, meetings, time frames, and lots of pressure to fit in this norm.

IT TAKES A LOT TO FIGHT THE EXISTING SYSTEM.

I think the guilt is from KNOWING, but choosing not to do anything about it, for whatever reason.

(I speak here specifically about debunking all the lies. Piles and piles and piles and piles ad infinitum!)

That's why there has to be a major flip of EVERYTHING. Mother Earth will have to 'shake off the fleas', for this has grown WAY OUTTA HAND!

(Mother knows how weak and ineffectual we feel. She has compassion, but patience has run out, not so much with us, but the situation. What IS expected of us, is that we do the best we can from wherever we are. The gaps will be filled. BELIEVE ME.)

Fred259
31st January 2011, 21:19
The understanding is:

Joseph was not a carpenter, he was a land and building owner.

Joseph was of the priestly class.

Priestly class or group, is granted to the first male born child, and that child was supposed to and ONLY be born at the correct time of year.

This meant that until that child was born as male and at the correct time of year, it was HANDS OFF for Joseph and Mary.

Apparently they had the hots for one another, and had an accident. Jesus was born at the wrong time of year.

How did that happen! "Oh, it was divine intervention!", Joseph and Mary say,....as they each get uncomfortable...clear their throats, and look in other directions.(How bout those bears?-talk sports or something---change the subject, quick!)

Jesus's brother JAMES was the actual first born male in the correct time frame of the given year. He ended up being the heir to the family line, etc.

Jesus was left to his own devices, to some degree..and becomes another 'Sir Francis Bacon', the socially and culturally illegitimate child of a powerful union, who is denied his heritage.

I have read before your point about Joseph being from a “priestly class” without the key component you correctly add, divine intervention so yes another bit of the jigsaw you could say.

Fred259
31st January 2011, 21:36
It sounds simple, but it is not. Even trained psychologists have been completely fooled. A good friend of mine is exactly that, a trained psychologist, and he is certain that George H. W. Bush is a fine, upstanding human being. The average person doesn't even know what a sociopath is, much less their defining characteristics and personality deficits. Women can be married to them for decades and never recognize the manipulation they have fallen for.

I enjoy your well crafted posts Chicodoodoo, thought provoking to say the least. I wonder however how your friend could consider George H.W. Bush or his son for that matter as “fine upstanding human beings”?

Paul
31st January 2011, 22:00
I wonder however how your friend could consider George H.W. Bush or his son for that matter as “fine upstanding human beings”?That depends on what you notice.

I too for many years considered Bush father and son to be "fine upstanding human beings".

The conscious mind is but a thin layer of all that is.

Fred259
31st January 2011, 22:20
Yes, there were camps, but there always are in the times of war, as peoples are being displaced, and yes, disease can run rampant (Typhoid, for instance which can decimate a healthy human being within 48 hours), kill thousands if not tens of thousands in a couple weeks, when so many people are living in such tight quarters, and yes, their were open pits, filled with bodies, because some disease had run rampant...

And of course, there was the human element. Guards and soldiers who abused the people, tormenting, torturing, raping...

And forced labor camps, also part of the War-Machine, which could explain men, women, and children being sent to separate camps...

And yes, there are people who say they were there, and I believe they were, and they saw these things happening, but isn't there a possibility that they have been given an explanation, which they readily accept?


The truth has been coming out, slowly from different quarters...for instance, one of the most famous Jews, who had a major influence on how we all perceived this, was Elli Wiesel, WHO ADMITTED his book on his being in a camp and the horrific conditions, WAS FICTION. (His admittance didn't happen until he was in his 80's I believe.)


Interesting story slvrfx. You do however mention a figure of 6 million, but it was the case wasn’t it that in the late 1950s this figure was 12, million which is quite extraordinary, then it went to 10, and then 8. I seem to remember it was 8 million during the 1970s but I could be wrong, and now we are at 6 million.

I think that this is perhaps closer to the truth, and as you say it does seem that many are reflecting on this now.

This story caught my eye. Russian Jews would rather emigrate to Germany, rather than Israel, and it would seem this is causing raised eyebrows in Jerusalem.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/01/24/2742688/20-years-on-russians-in-germany-flocking-to-big-cities


This matter really does need to be resolved. It’s my understanding that the German taxpayers have paid the State of Israel very very considerable sums of money over the past 50 for the ill-treatment and suffering of the Jews. One wonders what would happen now with these new revelations. Does anyone know how much money has been paid or pledged?

scopecover
31st January 2011, 22:28
I’ve been reading about the holocaust and how there are those who believe that the story we’ve been told about it is a great deal of public relations propaganda in order to influence the minds of people to think a particular way.

Now, I’m not for a minute saying that utterly terrible things which ought never to have happened, happened during WWll.
And are still happening today to other people in other countries – but for some reason that pales in significance in people’s minds in comparison to that of ‘the holocaust’.

However, looking beyond the human tragedy of it, the question arises: - was it all an essential part of the greater plan to drive the new world order agenda full steam ahead?

The Rothschilds (‘ptb’ being Zionists and apparently Jews (handy that) and god knows what else ) funded both sides of this war, they were responsible for the start of the UN.
Great Britian wanted US support during WWll, so a deal was done that Great Britian would hand over a chunk of Palestine (now considerably grown and increasingly growing ) if the US could be inspired to join – bring on p*ssing off the Japanese and thereby instigating the attack on Pearl Harbour.

All these moves, and many more, have been chess piece moves taking place under the cover of using human pawns in order to strategically place the pieces to bring about the globalist ‘nwo’ agenda.

It is illegal in certain countries to be a holocaust denier, and even people in countries where it isn’t have been so brainwashed by the propaganda they are unable to discuss the situation with an open mind and an opinion not shrouded by emotion.
Which is an absolute shame, for while it remains an un-investigated and unquestioned event the Jewish people will remain sacrificial lambs to the Zionist movement to attain total control over the world and humanity.

And, while we allow the cockroaches to remain hiding under the cover of Holocaust guilt and censorship they will continue doing whatever it is they are doing to make the world a place that none of us want to live in.

Have at it.

I read this post on Saturday night whilst surfing as a visitor. My reaction was "MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH". I joined the sight immediately and am now an Avalonian newbie.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 22:51
I read this post on Saturday night whilst surfing as a visitor. My reaction was "MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH". I joined the sight immediately and am now an Avalonian newbie.

Welcome to our humble corner of the internetssssssssssssssss.

witchy1
31st January 2011, 22:53
I see transindental bean pod has unsubscribed. I was going to wade in with a comment -

Please let Lord Sidious have his say. You dont have to believe it, but you do need give him the space to express his views and provide respect of free speech. There is little point in a constant barrage of "I dont believe you because my uncle / aunt/ best friend said...." without first hearing it all. We do not want a tirade of emotional disturbance to derail the topic

We absolutely need to hear all sides first before making a considered judgement decision on the matter - clear your mind of preconceived notions and just listen without judgement for a few minutes.

A note to others: If the topic herein incites rage within , hate or any other ill-feeling or dark emotions - then this may not be the place for you. If however you can control those emotions and provide a logical discourse and considered debate then please stay. We welcome your point of view as well. All comments may need to be fully referenced to ensure the emotions stay in check.

I think there is enough substance to the arguments to provide the space for a full discussion on the matter.

Sidious, please continue we are listening.

Teakai
31st January 2011, 22:59
The girls were called virgins.

In those days, it didn’t have the same meaning as it does in our society today.

A young virgin was just a “young girl” what we would call teenagers.

So a young virgin had a baby by conception, in the same we were all conceived.

It’s a play on words and manipulation of the mind. I told you about my doctor. She in turn told me that ovaries are the most imbedded organ in the body. How could you have a virgin birth, its impossible?

So today the translation would be a teenage pregnancy…

That's definitely one way you could look at it, Fred. Very down to earth and 'normal' :)
There are others - as with the Greek version and as with the video I posted. That may be termed a virgin birth also - if the woman was a virgin to begin with of course - impregnated without intercourse.

Lots of UFO references in mediaeval religious art, as I mentioned earlier. I wonder at the link.

witchy1
31st January 2011, 23:10
"MY GOD - THESE PEOPLE DO ACTUALLY PRACTICE & ALLOW FREE SPEECH".

Welcome to Avalon scopecover, pull up a seat and enjoy the forum.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

As an aside, what is it about that back to front penguin avatar - 3 with that avatar have gone in 2 days---------hmmmm

Fred259
31st January 2011, 23:14
That's definitely one way you could look at it, Fred. Very down to earth and 'normal' :)
There are others - as with the Greek version and as with the video I posted. That may be termed a virgin birth also - if the woman was a virgin to begin with of course - impregnated without intercourse.

Lots of UFO references in mediaeval religious art, as I mentioned earlier. I wonder at the link.

Well Im not really an expert when it comes to that department, so I will bow to your greater authority if I may!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Modwiz..

I was thinking about you. "Hydroponics" is the solution for you.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 23:20
I see transindental bean pod has unsubscribed. I was going to wade in with a comment -

Please let Lord Sidious have his say. You dont have to believe it, but you do need give him the space to express his views and provide respect of free speech. There is little point in a constant barrage of "I dont believe you because my uncle / aunt/ best friend said...." without first hearing it all. We do not want a tirade of emotional disturbance to derail the topic

We absolutely need to hear all sides first before making a considered judgement decision on the matter - clear your mind of preconceived notions and just listen without judgement for a few minutes.

A note to others: If the topic herein incites rage within , hate or any other ill-feeling or dark emotions - then this may not be the place for you. If however you can control those emotions and provide a logical discourse and considered debate then please stay. We welcome your point of view as well. All comments may need to be fully referenced to ensure the emotions stay in check.

I think there is enough substance to the arguments to provide the space for a full discussion on the matter.

Sidious, please continue we are listening.

When I get the nod from Bill, I will start a thread.
I think I would like to run it along the lines of someone puts up something they believe about the alleged ''holocaust'' and then we debate it.
How does that sound?

Teakai
31st January 2011, 23:37
Sidious.

Google DNA Hitler Jewish, and update your programming.

It's not in any way off topic or wrong to point out your logical inconsistencies. And it's a better use of my time than a point-by-point with a person so rooted in such faulty thinking.

It's disingenuous to now back peddle on the eyewitnesses. Much as it is to talk about other people's attitudes when you enter a thread announcing you know more than everybody else put together. (but let's not talk down to others, right?)

People disagree with me ALL OVER the place. And I don't talk down to any of them. Occasionally, people tick me off, and I address them. You just happen to be one of those handful of people.

When it comes to certain issues, folks like you need to be confronted, because not all conspiracy memes are harmless. This 'kick the jew' meme, is among the more insidious, and if you don't like my having emotions about it, tough luck.

I'm sorry to be the first person to hold up a mirror to your words.

Hi transdimensionalbeanpod, that you think any of this has ;kick the Jew' connotations shows the depth of brainwashing the zionist propoganda has had on you.
Your responses are the reason this stuff is not talked about.

What this is all about is the zionist agenda (zionists are not Jews) and to get at the truth of how they have hidden their dastardly deeds using the Jews as pawns - that way they can do all sorts of things and people stay hush - not only stay hush - but support it. Because people get very defensive about questioning anything to do with Israel and Judhism - it's a very good cover for the zionists.

You may believe the 'official' version - and that's your perogative.
Others are suspicious of it and would like to know more is all. We are already aware of what the 'official' version is - it was taught to us at school.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


When I get the nod from Bill, I will start a thread.
I think I would like to run it along the lines of someone puts up something they believe about the alleged ''holocaust'' and then we debate it.
How does that sound?

Great - but I don't think we're going to get a response from Bill.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Well Im not really an expert when it comes to that department, so I will bow to your greater authority if I may![COLOR="red"]


I don't have a greater authority, Fred. I'm just laying down the options as I see them.

deSelbyst
31st January 2011, 23:49
If I may throw a line into the discussion.

To use the memories of those who were persecuted and did die under tyranny to only further tyranny show's the sickness we have before us.

Lord Sidious
31st January 2011, 23:55
If I may throw a line into the discussion.

To use the memories of those who were persecuted and did die under tyranny to only further tyranny show's the sickness we have before us.

That my friend, is the exact behaviour I am was referring to when I was talking about people enslaved by this story.

Paul
31st January 2011, 23:57
As an aside, what is it about that back to front penguin avatar - 3 with that avatar have gone in 2 days---------hmmmmI believe that it is the other way around. When someone leaves, they get reassigned that penguin avatar.

The bean pod (and some of the other departees) had quite different avatars while they were here with us.

Fred259
1st February 2011, 00:16
I
believe that it is the other way around. When someone leaves, they get reassigned that penguin avatar.

The bean pod (and some of the other departees) had quite different avatars while they were here with us.

Why has he left?

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 00:22
Why has he left?

Partially because of the exchange you see between him and me above and him and me in another thread.
He was trying the guilt trip crap on me here and on someone else in another thread.
Accusing both of us of kicking the jews around.

Fred259
1st February 2011, 00:26
Partially because of the exchange you see between him and me above and him and me in another thread.
He was trying the guilt trip crap on me here and on someone else in another thread.
Accusing both of us of kicking the jews around.

Yea but you don’t leave for that…I see he also left some strange comments elsewhere…

Anyway glad to see you have your flag up..

Fred259
1st February 2011, 00:34
Does anyone actually have any reasonable estimate of how many Jews died; I did see a Red Cross report that mentioned around 250,000….

Apparently a memorial at Auschwitz mentions “around 200,000" died in total at that camp.

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 00:37
Yea but you don’t leave for that…I see he also left some strange comments elsewhere…

Anyway glad to see you have your flag up..

Bill put him on the spot and he didn't like it.
It seems he doesn't like to answer, only accuse.

And yeah, I put up the Palestinian one as I feel bad for their situation.
Thing is, by feeling bad for the Palestinians, that doesn't mean I hate the jews, as both groups are prisoners of the paradigm they can't control.


Does anyone actually have any reasonable estimate of how many Jews died; I did see a Red Cross report that mentioned around 250,000….

Apparently a memorial at Auschwitz mentions “around 200,000" died in total at that camp.

It isn't easy. There were more jews killed by Einsatzgruppen than died in the camps.
Problem is seperating out who was killed by them and why.
They were mostly involved in what we now call counter insurgency and a lot of those deaths were partisans.

RedeZra
1st February 2011, 02:07
Nice thread Teakai :peace:



How did that happen! "Oh, it was divine intervention!", Joseph and Mary say,....

Have you never experienced a divine intervention a supernatural event or at least a meager miracle ?


I admire your attempts to dedivine Jesus Christ but it is an exercise in futility ; )

Chicodoodoo
1st February 2011, 02:14
I enjoy your well crafted posts Chicodoodoo, thought provoking to say the least. I wonder however how your friend could consider George H.W. Bush or his son for that matter as “fine upstanding human beings”?

The public persona presented by powerful sociopaths is also carefully crafted. It is important to realize that they have spent their entire lives practicing this skill of deceptive public relations! It is a necessary condition for their survival and success in a world largely populated by honest, caring people that literally consider typical sociopathic behavior as abhorrent and criminal. The sociopath can be seen as a specialized chameleon designed to fool its prey. The prey would be us, the non-sociopaths, though a better analogy might be that of parasite to unsuspecting host.

It takes accurate and verifiable information to publicly expose a sociopath. The information must be accurate and verifiable because the immediate defense of the sociopath is to deny everything. They will lie to cover up their lies, and they are similarly well practiced at lying. If well organized groups of sociopaths have gained control of the money supply, and over the course of a century have used the profits of this lucrative control to quietly buy up government influence and the mass media, where will accurate and verifiable information come from? The facade is nearly perfect.

So naturally, having been raised in this sea of propaganda, I too believed George H. W. Bush was a fine upstanding human being, and I believed it for most of my life. It wasn't until the advent of the Internet and the sudden rise of phenomena like Project Camelot that whistle-blowing insiders had a public outlet for their unbelievable experiences. And their stories were unbelievable (to the brain-washed mind)! Chip Tatum worked directly under Bush when Bush was CIA director, and if anyone had an inside view of the man, Chip did. When my links to his material were routinely censored by MySpace (owned by News Corp, owners of Fox News and many, many other substantial media outlets), that also got my attention. So did the fact that Chip was brutally tortured and murdered, despite taking all the precautions he knew would be necessary. Even so, it took me years of collecting and analyzing information from many sources to realize that I had been completely fooled by the mass media. I cannot state categorically that I know the real truth about George H. W. Bush, or Kissinger, or Brzezinski, or Clinton, or Cheney, or many of the others at the top of the dog pile, but I do recognize that they are sociopaths and are not at all what they present themselves to be. I also recognize that most non-sociopaths, like my psychologist friend, do not see it at all, and they can't because they don't have the necessary background information. Being a Harvard-educated psychologist is not sufficient.

So, after all that I've learned, if someone claims the holocaust is to a certain degree a fabrication of powerful, well organized scheming men, I will definitely entertain that notion, despite what I've been taught by the propaganda machine. After all, the top of the dog pile is exactly where the cream of sociopathic society will "naturally" rise to, as long as their cunning and deception can hold up.

The bottom line is that I have learned to question everything and dismiss nothing, much like a detective. My psychologist friend is simply not there yet. It is true that my new philosophy results in a life that contains a good measure of uncertainty and discomfort. You have to constantly juggle a number of working theories until they can be replaced, and no theory is ever complete. But the certainties that most everyone else finds so convincing become quite transparent.

Lancelot
1st February 2011, 02:41
I dont agree with your anti- semitic comments jorr lundstrom.
We are all brothers and sisters on this earth regardless of creed or colour. If you hate jews you also hate your own family.
The Jews are the Old testament tribe of Judea- 1 of the 12 tribes of Israel, the other 11 tribes ended up as Europe and America (Scandinavians are mostly of the tribe of Dan)
Seems the Nazis thought wiping out jews was important for some reason. Not sure why. Maybe you're right- they are gods chosen tribe- whatever that means.

Lancelot
1st February 2011, 02:45
The jews has always wanted to be seen as the persued tribe. The holocoust is just a handy alibi.
During the same time and in the same camps were also many thousand jypsies, mentally disordered germans and many from the occupied contries. You never hear about them.
No the jews have exclusive right to exploit this tragedy. So now they have all rights to harass their neighbors in eternity,
which they probably had done without the holocoust too. LOL But its worse, they are also God´s choosen tribe.
This give them a lot of rights too.
Never give a whip to one who has been whipped.

I dont agree with your anti- semitic comments.
We are all brothers and sisters on this earth regardless of creed or colour. If you hate jews you also hate your own family.
The Jews are the Old testament tribe of Judea- 1 of the 12 tribes of Israel, the other 11 tribes ended up as Europe and America (Scandinavians are mostly of the tribe of Dan)
Seems the Nazis thought wiping out jews was important for some reason. Not sure why.
Maybe you're right- they are god's chosen people- whatever that means.

witchy1
1st February 2011, 03:08
The jews has always wanted to be seen as the persued tribe. The holocoust is just a handy alibi............. No the jews have exclusive right to exploit this tragedy. So now they have all rights to harass their neighbors in eternity,which they probably had done without the holocoust too. LOL But its worse, they are also God´s choosen tribe.This give them a lot of rights too.Never give a whip to one who has been whipped.

Jorr lundstrom - please clarify and explain how you know these things for a fact! Without facts it is conjecture and we are not after guesswork or one sided opinions/ beliefs here. It is far too an emotional topic and the written word can be easily twisted.

Please back your statement up with verifiable evidence as opposed to either your own or others opinion and beliefs. If you dont or cannot this leaves your statement open to guesswork and you risk personal confrontation

Fred259
1st February 2011, 03:20
[QUOTE]Seems the Nazis thought wiping out jews was important for some reason. Not sure why

This is a misconception. It’s what the Zionist would want you to believe.

The same sentence could equally apply to the Dutch, the Poles and the British.

These were past times, and we live and learn however what is objectionable is the brain washing of our children. They know little of British History, but are certainly well versed in the crimes of the Nazis.

It’s a nonsense that a boy and girl from every secondary school should travel to Auschwitz.

Do English schools send children to the battlefield at Naseby?

Do Scottish schools send children to the battlefield at Culloden?

The answer is No. So why should they travel to Poland and Auschwitz?

Paul
1st February 2011, 03:22
Why has he [Transdimensional Bean Pod] left?
See further this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9107-David-Icke-Debunked-%28Full-Movie%29&p=115991&viewfull=1#post115991) and this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9107-David-Icke-Debunked-%28Full-Movie%29&p=115995&viewfull=1#post115995).

modwiz
1st February 2011, 03:26
[QUOTE=ThePythonicCow;116349]I]

Why has he left?

Nazis in our midst

Fred259
1st February 2011, 03:31
[QUOTE=Fred259;116372]

Nazis in our midst

Rouse rouse

Modwiz O/T – Your farming solution could be “Hydroponics”, you have the space don’t you. 2500 feet is no good.

modwiz
1st February 2011, 03:49
[QUOTE=modwiz;116665]

Rouse rouse

Modwiz O/T – Your farming solution could be “Hydroponics”, you have the space don’t you. 2500 feet is no good.

:offtopic: My solution will be to find an appropriate intentional community to join in a more agrarian friendly climate after I leave my seasonal employ and community at the end of Oct.. I have lots of leads and intend to make that my late Winter project.

Thanks for thinking of me.:wave:

aikisaw
1st February 2011, 04:30
I want to thank-you all for this thread (and many others)

This forum

This website

This is a discussion, debate, search for the truth, that needs to happen.

I would say more but my brain is overloaded.

Rocketman
1st February 2011, 05:57
Professor Paul Rassinier was a French historian who personally spent time inside the concentration camps during WWII. Following the war, he devoted his life to researching and documenting what happened inside the camps under Nazi control. A brief synopsis of his research can be found here: http://radioislam.org/historia/really/10.htm

It has been a well established fact that Hitler's rise to power had been financed by Zionist (Jewish) bankers in both Europe and the United States, but this gives rise to the question of why? Here is the link to a 2-part video which explains why, and provides insight as to what Hitler's "final solution" was all about: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=733_1177590511

Leon
1st February 2011, 07:22
I also heard a recent report that the radio transcripts from Auschwich to Berlin have been found, in this every death was reported and the cause... no mention of gassing?

I knew a man who lived in Triest, he spoke to many migrants leaving Europe in 1928. Most of the people leaving then were Jewish, he asked many why are you leaving here, they said something bad is going to happen in Germany.

A ducumentary show in Holland some years ago regarding Anne Frank, it this it was shown that the nazi's did not hunt Jewish people in Holland but that the Dutch betrayed the Jewish people to the Nazi's for money!

I know some people that have asked permission to ground-radar mass burial sites like Auschwitz, permission denied. Later on they managed to ground rader most of a mass buriel at a concentrations camp in Poland, before being removed the result showed that they found nothing there, no bone fragments, no teeth... this seemed rather odd!

I also read an articale on Zyklon B pellets used, it seems this substance leaves a blue stain on the walls of a chamber, non of this or even the slightest residue was found on Auschwitz gas chamber walls. after samples were taken and tested for this material. rather strange!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=4230&d=1296499782

Also:

Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing Hitler rise to power?
Why was Bush’s grandfather or his businesses involved in financing the death camps?

I do not believe this man killed himself, too many would protect him…

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 10:25
I dont agree with your anti- semitic comments.
We are all brothers and sisters on this earth regardless of creed or colour. If you hate jews you also hate your own family.
The Jews are the Old testament tribe of Judea- 1 of the 12 tribes of Israel, the other 11 tribes ended up as Europe and America (Scandinavians are mostly of the tribe of Dan)
Seems the Nazis thought wiping out jews was important for some reason. Not sure why.
Maybe you're right- they are god's chosen people- whatever that means.

Some of the jews may be judeans, but not all.
And what if we don't follow christian doctrine?
Jews are people like us, no more, no less and should be treated with the respect that they deserve as individuals.
Oh, I don't know where you got this idea that the 3rd Reich wanted to wipe them out?


Jorr lundstrom - please clarify and explain how you know these things for a fact! Without facts it is conjecture and we are not after guesswork or one sided opinions/ beliefs here. It is far too an emotional topic and the written word can be easily twisted.

Please back your statement up with verifiable evidence as opposed to either your own or others opinion and beliefs. If you dont or cannot this leaves your statement open to guesswork and you risk personal confrontation

On the part where he says what I think he means about jews being a persecuted people, he is right.
The talmud and other religious items are full of that and the rabbis teach it too.
No wonder so many jews live in fear that we are all out to wipe them out.
That is another part of the paradigm that holds them captive.
All I can say to them is come on in, the water is quite nice and there aren't any sharks.


Professor Paul Rassinier was a French historian who personally spent time inside the concentration camps during WWII. Following the war, he devoted his life to researching and documenting what happened inside the camps under Nazi control. A brief synopsis of his research can be found here: http://radioislam.org/historia/really/10.htm

It has been a well established fact that Hitler's rise to power had been financed by Zionist (Jewish) bankers in both Europe and the United States, but this gives rise to the question of why? Here is the link to a 2-part video which explains why, and provides insight as to what Hitler's "final solution" was all about: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=733_1177590511

I don't have the time for the vid right now, I will check it later.
I will speak about the final solution and the bankers later.
Paul Rassinier was a communist as well, hence him being locked up.
Now he speaks out to clear the name of the people he once assumed were his enemy.
Can you guys see the HUGE lessons in this story?


I also heard a recent report that the radio transcripts from Auschwich to Berlin have been found, in this every death was reported and the cause... no mention of gassing?

You have heard of the Ultra decrypts? That is the name given to the info the british got from their enigma machine they had at bletchley part in England.
They decrypted all the German radio traffic.
In no ultra material is there any mention of mass killings of jews in the camps, gas chambers of any of the other stories we have been bludgeoned with for all these years.
They have the complete record of all the reports from the camps to SS headquarters in Berlin.

Fred259
1st February 2011, 10:29
I want to thank-you all for this thread (and many others)

This forum

This website

This is a discussion, debate, search for the truth, that needs to happen.

I would say more but my brain is overloaded.


Chill out aikisaw and rest your brain, you are suffering the effects of the New World Order.



No hate. No violence
Races? Only one Human race
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

mrmalco
1st February 2011, 13:17
"Anatoly Fomeko gives evidence that the bible was really written around the 14th century, King James re-worked it in the 16th century." Quote


Teakai
What evidence does he give?
The early texts of the Septuagint, the New Testament, Gnostic texts, the writings of Josephus, the Nag Hamadi texts, the Dead Sea scrolls - commentaries and interpretations of attested date in the Jewish Talmud, accounts of the Babylonian Emperors Nebuchadnezar, Cyrus and Cambyses, ancient traditions on the life of Pythagoras and a mountain of other bits and pieces in writings from Alexandria, the Hellenistic world, the Roman authors, the Desert Fathers, Neo-Platonic traditions... in all a simply HUGE body of material cumulatively attests to the existence of the Jewish scripture mainly from somewhat before the Christian era, certainly very soon thereafter.

Most had been edited together (with lots of material from other Near Eastern traditions) during the Exile in Babylon in the 6th century BCE. By that time incidentally it's reckoned that 10 of the tribes had already drifted off in all directions (e.g. there's evidence that the Afghan Pashtun may be descended from the tribe of Asher - don't tell the Taliban!) In the time of Herodotus the Judaeans were a small, post exile people. He does refer, scholars think, to Jerusalem under the name Candytes, he certainly referred to the lands of the Philistines - Palestine - the main name for that area.

Since the work of archaeologist David Rolle reshaped Egeyptian chronology numerous archaeological sites in Palestine have confirmed the existence of ancient Judaea (before, around and soon after 1000 BCE), as described in great detail in the Bible,(unknowable because long destroyed at a later date); also confirmed by the material in Egypt, the diggings of Assyriologists and other students in Palestine and Mesopotamia etc. etc. etc.

No argument for, conclusions about, anything will ever be strengthened by the ignorance of the Russian writer, if he wrote as you quote. One would have to reject almost the entire corpus of existing ancient European, Middle Eastern and North African texts - the entire edifice of history and its chronology (and all the forensic and epigraphical and archaeological science supporting that dating). Christian writings - again a huge volume still extant and of uncontested date and provenance - massively quote the Bible throughout all the centuries prior to the dates you say this Russian claims. That entire range of textual material would have to be forgery.

There was a revision of the Jewish text around 1000 CE, arising from the Masoretes. This was when vowel-markings were inserted in the ancient Torah that had been exclusively consonantal. Very few substantive changes were made to the Septuagint. This revision had some influence on the King James Authorised Version, which was a translation of the best texts that Francis Bacon's cohorts could pull together.

At the time the Russian mentions someone, whose name I now forget, put in the verse and chapter numberings. The Torah scrolls had originally contained solid slabs of Hebrew consonants, not even divided into words, let alone sentences, verses and chapters.

Perhaps it was that which your man meant.
Mr Fomeko sounds like a serious ignoramus. He must be a recently arrived alien!

By the way there is another HUGE body of research and discussion on the Holocaust matter. Though it often gets slagged off, a good starting point is wikipedia, not necessarily for its main articles but for the source material quoted.
It quotes stacks of stuff on both sides of this current debate.

On this Holocaust thing, good primary sources are 'Mein Kampf' by Adolph Hitler'; 'Hitler's Table Talk' in the original Heim edition; 'Hitler and I' by Otto Strasser, Hitler's speeches (if you can get a German speaker alongside to translate) - especially the first one ever broadcast to the German public, from a factory I think and where he dropped some pretty big hints re. his intentions about the Jews.

As you say - emotion doesn't get matters aired. Direct experience, research and thought, based on weighing evidence, do. Good luck.

IMO Zionism is wrong. Period. But I fear that in the long run the 'Holocaust Denial' movement will actually play into Zionist hands.

Incidentally one of the dearest friends I ever had - a man called Czezlaw Czmielinski, a gentile as am I, was one of the men who raked out the ovens at Auschwitz. He's dead now of course; he was a big lovely man with a big voice and a big sense of humour ... but with a deeply broken heart.

Leon
1st February 2011, 14:53
I know they had oven's not denying this but today we have these everywhere to and it is accepted that we burn our dead.

there we excecutions I am sure, as I lost family to this as well. but the figures just don't add up.

The German's were and still are real sticklers for precise dokumentation, the only point here is look at all the years the alies have had to stuff this up to suit themselves....

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 15:28
Don't look now, but there are crematories in every major city.
What do you think it proves that they were present in camps where people were confined?

mrmalco
1st February 2011, 16:06
MMmm I know what Czez saw. The numbers may have been be overstated but not the deed. Why are people so determined to make light of this?

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 16:20
MMmm I know what Czez saw. The numbers may have been be overstated but not the deed. Why are people so determined to make light of this?

I want to cut through the crap and get to THE truth.
Not your truth, not your friend's truth, but THE truth.
And what do you mean about the deed?

Leon
1st February 2011, 17:22
I think the biggest issue, is not what happened. it's the lies and exaggerate what went on in order for the world to feel sorry for some only...

I lost family in this war, and no one cares...

The truth is what we want, not some story of great proportions...

The German's did things they shouldn't have sure, in every war countries do this... The German's didn't invent the concentration camp, the Brits did this long before...
I cought a fish it was over a meter long and boy what a fight it put up... in reality it was only about 15cm.... get the picture...

mrmalco
1st February 2011, 19:37
So Lord Sidious what research have you done? Anger alone learns nothing.

Paul
1st February 2011, 19:50
Why are people so determined to make light of this?There seem to be two crimes here, the deaths (such as they actually were) and the exaggeration. Neither should be made light of.

aikisaw
1st February 2011, 22:22
Interestingly enough, lying is an integral part of your lifestyle if you are a sociopath, and along with that, keeping a lot of things secret. To non-sociopaths, all this lying is a laughing matter, because they can't possibly imagine living like that, but to sociopaths, lying is a practiced and well polished skill. The same goes for keeping so many things hidden. Both characteristics serve them well in their natural domination of leadership positions.

Is this ability to lie taught? Are you born with it? Are they trained from childhood?

I have been in a crowded room with some minor politicians. They seemed to be able to change personalities/demeanor depending on who they were talking to. That was disturbing enough...What was more disturbing was how everyone seemed to love the attention they got. They never seemed to see the change after the politician moved on from them to the next person. Dis ingenious attention was just fine with them. Clinton would be the best national example of this.

Everyone knows Clinton was the bad one and Bush came to save us all.( Kidding on that now) I did believe that at one time.

It seems to me that these are the people that the PTB sent to deal with masses. The public face of the franchise. They have a certain skill set as it were. Do you think that the PTB have a different set of sociopaths?

Lord Sidious
1st February 2011, 22:54
So Lord Sidious what research have you done? Anger alone learns nothing.

I am not angry, what makes you say that?
I have been researching the whole thing for over 25 years.
You?

Fred259
1st February 2011, 23:40
[QUOTE]I think the biggest issue, is not what happened. it's the lies and exaggerate what went on in order for the world to feel sorry for some only...

Precisely Leon,… Lies, exaggeration, manipulation and deceit.

It’s these traits that drive those of the Jewish faith who are constantly striving to distance themselves from modern day Zionism.

The Jews from many European nations were used and abused by the Zionists from the early 1920s to put pressure on the British Government to establish an independent state for the Zionists. They were and still are lambs for slaughter.

Lancelot
2nd February 2011, 01:10
[QUOTE=Fred259;116659][QUOTE=Lancelot;116616]



This is a misconception. It’s what the Zionist would want you to believe.

This sounds like you are denying the holocaust happened to the Jews at all. Have you been to Auschwitz? do you really beleive it was staged by Zionists- If so, for what reason?

Fred259
2nd February 2011, 02:24
[QUOTE=Lancelot;116616]



This is a misconception. It’s what the Zionist would want you to believe.

[QUOTE]This sounds like you are denying the holocaust happened

I don’t like the word holocaust, a word created by Zionists.


to the Jews at all

What about other who were detained in the camps Poles, Russians, Religious leaders, Homosexuals. Gypsies. Do they not matter?


do you really beleive it was staged by Zionists

Staged is your word, I would prefer to say manipulated and misconception.


- If so, for what reason?

The Jews from many European nations were used and abused by the Zionists from the early 1920s to put pressure on the British Government to establish an independent state for the Zionist's

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 09:37
[QUOTE=Fred259;116659][QUOTE=Lancelot;116616]



This is a misconception. It’s what the Zionist would want you to believe.

This sounds like you are denying the holocaust happened to the Jews at all. Have you been to Auschwitz? do you really beleive it was staged by Zionists- If so, for what reason?

Why is this only about the jews that were in the camps? What about the others?
And so what that people can go to the camps today? You may be interested to know that what is shown to you as an original gas chamber at the Auschwitz Stammlager, is in fact, an after war ''reproduction'' built by the Polish government.
So whatever benefit you think you may get by seeing a supposed crime scene over 65 years later may be less than you think.
And yes to your question, even though you didn't ask me. I do deny the events as described and commonly accepted are true.
If you are jewish, then I implore you to break through the paradigm that your people are stuck in. The paradigm of ''anti-semitism'' that scares so many jews.
Reject all information, regardless of the source until YOU are satisfied it is true, that is what I have done and continue to do.
The jews are THE most controlled group on the planet and they have suffered their own rulers planting ideas and concepts into their consciousness to control them for their own ends.
This HAS to stop and to stop it, we must break the shackles.
One of the links in those shackles is this holohoax rubbish.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 09:41
Ok, here is the thread I have been asked to start.
Let me set some ground rules first.
There is to be no flaming, no abuse and no racial crap.
We are here to debate something that a lot of people have a bee in their bonnet about.
We have to break the shackles of mind control and this is a big one.

What I would like to do, is that you guys put up one thing at a time and we hash it to death, then we move on.
I won't propose discussion topics, I want you guys to have complete freedom, within the above rules, to propose what YOU want to debate.

Ok, let's roll and thanks for your participation and for your restraint.

Gone002
2nd February 2011, 09:45
Ill start up then, i would like to make it clear are you talking about holocaust denial

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 10:06
Ill start up then, i would like to make it clear are you talking about holocaust denial

Right, so you have to define what I believe?
Rude, very rude. I am not attempting to tell you what you believe, am I?
Do me a favour, if you can't debate in this thread without manners, don't come into it at all.
Ok?

Gone002
2nd February 2011, 10:09
Chill the beans man, no need to attack me. its wasn't ment be a rude statement. :eek:

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 10:12
Chill the beans man, no need to attack me. its wasn't ment be a rude statement. :eek:

Ok, then I apoligise if that isn't your intent.
See, that is the danger of text alone.
What point were you trying to make?

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 10:19
Ill start up then, i would like to make it clear are you talking about holocaust denial

It is not clear to me.

Revision is not denial.

The Chinese version of the Japanese invasion of Nanjing/Nanking is very different. The Chinese call it "the Rape of Nanking".

The invasion and destruction of Iraq America calls the "liberation".

Everything you know about the holocaust you probably got from controlled media. There are reams of unbiased solid research on the web. Some sites with anti-Jewish agendas pick it up and get their stink on it.

We are one human family here. Something very foul and evil happened in Europe and it started with the Bolshevik Revolution. Nazi Germany is one of the metastasized aspects of it. The horror continued after the war in Russia under Stalin and then again under Mao in China. The numbers that died under these men is staggering.

And it was never indiscriminate, there was always a special quality that identified people as targets. It was a continuum from 1917 until at least Cambodia. Rwanda and Sudan being aftershocks of the convulsion of the main Eurasian Holocaust.

Some feel the holocaust is a sort of brand name, a trademark that others may not license. That is not fair to the other dead who outnumber them by many times.

All the dead are deserving of us never forgetting and declaring,"Never again".

Gone002
2nd February 2011, 10:24
Well said man, im in 100% agrement with you. The BNP (british national party) and others throw holocaust denial around with other racial attacks. There is to much evidence that clearly points out that happened.

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 10:24
Right, so you have to define what I believe?
Rude, very rude. I am not attempting to tell you what you believe, am I?
Do me a favour, if you can't debate in this thread without manners, don't come into it at all.
Ok?

As the originator of this thread you would do it and the sensitive subject greater honor by being the ultimate diplomat. This could be a very valiable thread, but it must be kept intellectual, even in the face of the emotional.

People need to be detoxified LS, you must come free of your own.

Expect outrageous slings and arrows and wear your finest armor. A cool head.

Modwiz

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 10:25
Well said man, im in 100% agrement with you. The BNP (british national party) and others throw holocaust denial around with other racial attacks. There is to much evidence that clearly points out that happened.

You still didn't tell me your point and now you drag in other irrelevant stuff.
If you don't intend to debate, then please just read and don't post.


As the originator of this thread you would do it and the sensitive subject greater honor by being the ultimate diplomat. This could be a very valiable thread, but it must be kept intellectual, even in the face of the emotional.

People need to be detoxified LS, you must come free of your own.

Expect outrageous slings and arrows and wear your finest armor. A cool head.

Modwiz

I try to be a diplomat and sometimes I succeed. Most times I don't as I am still working on my own issues, as you would know.
I do expect people to sling stuff, that is why I posted the rules, so that we can stop this and try to keep the debate clean and open.

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 10:29
You still didn't tell me your point and now you drag in other irrelevant stuff.
If you don't intend to debate, then please just read and don't post.

LOL Are you Lord Sidious or Darth Vader?

Pull out of this nose dive, Lord.

Gone002
2nd February 2011, 10:33
It was about holocaust denail which modwiz cleared up. if you continue to harass me and dissect what i post on this topic, saying if what i post is irrelevant or not in your eye then take a chill pill.

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 10:33
I try to be a diplomat and sometimes I succeed. Most times I don't as I am still working on my own issues, as you would know.
I do expect people to sling stuff, that is why I posted the rules, so that we can stop this and try to keep the debate clean and open.

Seriously, unless you started this thread to work out your issues, you need to leave them at the door or this place will develop a bad odor quickly.

I support what you are doing here, IF it is an enlightening environment.

It has started like a MMA match.

Modwiz

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 10:33
LOL Are you Lord Sidious or Darth Vader?

Pull out of this nose dive, Lord.

I started the thread as people said they would like to throw around their own ideas.
So far, not one post after mine has been about the subject itself, only offtopic stuff.
If we are going to break the mental shackles people have, this isn't the way to do it.
Maybe I am not diplomatic enough, well actually, there isn't any maybe, is there?
Ok, I am not diplomatic enough, but I feel this is important, as lots of people harbour dark thoughts and feelings about this topic that I believe is unwarranted.
I don't have to explain to people here why that is not a good thing, lots of you could probably explain it better than me.

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 10:45
I started the thread as people said they would like to throw around their own ideas.
So far, not one post after mine has been about the subject itself, only off topic stuff.
If we are going to break the mental shackles people have, this isn't the way to do it.
Maybe I am not diplomatic enough, well actually, there isn't any maybe, is there?
Ok, I am not diplomatic enough, but I feel this is important, as lots of people harbour dark thoughts and feelings about this topic that I believe is unwarranted.
I don't have to explain to people here why that is not a good thing, lots of you could probably explain it better than me.

People have been indoctrinated and it is many levels deep. It is incumbent on you to be gentle, you are going into peoples heads, rearranging their psychic furniture even making them reconsider their morality. They have been conditioned, too well I might add, that they are doing the right thing by standing up to you. They have been raised believing someone who says what you are saying is hiding horns under that hood of yours.

You are confronting what they believe to be their decency because it was put there and reinforced from every media angle imaginable.

Have mercy on them, you are working without anesthesia.

I say this because this discussion is important.

Martin
2nd February 2011, 10:45
The holocaust was a truly cruel and insane thing to do. So are all wars. We know wars as confrontations between nations and so most do not see the holocaust as a war, but as a crime against humanity. The millions of civilian deaths during the II WK we see as casulties of war when indeed they are as much casualties of a crime as the millions of killed jews in the so called holocaust. In conjunction I often wonder how most people seem to think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a mean to end a war and therefor not so much seeing it as what it truly is: a crime against humanity with unseen consequences for the generations to come. So once again it is due to our double standards that we condemn the one while ignoring it as the same time.

Holocaust as a brand. Well that seems to be very true and I once listened to a group of jews who said that this brand is badly needed by the Zionists to justify there sole existence and for accomplishing there goals.


MfG

Martin

norman
2nd February 2011, 10:45
Ok LS, The holocaust was about the genocide of European Jews, right?

Where other groups included?

Can we establish, first, if we want to track the victims or the perpetrators?

If we discuss the perpetrators we probably have to lump all victims in together, However, the jagged nerves reagrding revision of the holocaust seem to be about the Jews.

I have a very big first question about the relationship between the NAZI leadership and the "Jews".

Did the NAZIs even regard them as real Jews?

ViralSpiral
2nd February 2011, 10:52
I do expect people to sling stuff, that is why I posted the rules, so that we can stop this and try to keep the debate clean and open.

http://rationalia.com/z/love-17.GIF

As Modwiz so succintly wrote: could be a very valuable thread.
How quickly the game of catch the catcher starts....
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it. Mark Twain
on a macro and micro level

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 11:01
People have been indoctrinated and it is many levels deep. It is incumbent on you to be gentle, you are going into people heads, rearranging their psychic furniture even making them reconsider their morality. They have been conditioned, too well I might add, that they are doing the right thing by standing up to you. They have been raised believing someone who says what you are saying is hiding horns under that hood of yours.

You are confronting what they believe to be their decency because it was put there and reinforced from every media angle imaginable.

Have mercy on them, you are working without anesthesia.

I say this because this discussion is important.

Ok, I get exactly what you mean and I agree with you.
I am not doing this to provoke anyone, there are tons of places to do that.
But I think you see that anyways.


The holocaust was a truly cruel and insane thing to do. So are all wars. We know wars as confrontations between nations and so most do not see the holocaust as a war, but as a crime against humanity. The millions of civilian deaths during the II WK we see as casulties of war when indeed they are as much casualties of a crime as the millions of killed jews in the so called holocaust. In conjunction I often wonder how most people seem to think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a mean to end a war and therefor not so much seeing it as what it truly is: a crime against humanity with unseen consequences for the generations to come. So once again it is due to our double standards that we condemn the one while ignoring it as the same time.

Holocaust as a brand. Well that seems to be very true and I once listened to a group of jews who said that this brand is badly needed by the Zionists to justify there sole existence and for accomplishing there goals.



MfG

Martin

The thing is, your first is very broad. Do you believe in what is presented to us as historical fact? Is that what you are referring to?
The use of atomic weapons is an interesting question. I see some people say that only x amount died and we did that to save y amount in the long run, but they miss some important facts, under various treaties, which the US had signed, attacks on cities were illegal, intentionally targetting civilians were illegal and so I think this war crime is one of the worst, regardless of the numbers.
There is the other aspect as well, that being the ongoing effects of these weapons.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I am trying to free people from, the use of people as pawns and the freeing of their minds.


Ok LS, The holocaust was about the genocide of European Jews, right?

Where other groups included?

Can we establish, first, if we want to track the victims or the perpetrators?

If we discuss the perpetrators we probably have to lump all victims in together, However, the jagged nerves reagrding revision of the holocaust seem to be about the Jews.

I have a very big first question about the relationship between the NAZI leadership and the "Jews".

Did the NAZIs even regard them as real Jews?

I am not sure what you mean about tracking victims or perps? Could you explain what track means please?
And the NSDAP spent a lot of effort trying to define exactly what a jew was. This area is not an easy one, as you can be jewish by religion or ethnicity or both.
Thing is what is a REAL jew? By whose definition?
I would say that the people interred in the camps were from all types of backgrounds, from religious people who were against war, political opponents such as communists, gays, gypsies, prisoners of war such as soviets and more.


http://rationalia.com/z/love-17.GIF

As Modwiz so succintly wrote: could be a very valuable thread.
How quickly the game of catch the catcher starts....
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it. Mark Twain
on a macro and micro level

Thanks for the hint, received, comprehended and appreciated.

The One
2nd February 2011, 11:09
It is deeply shocking and incomprehensible to me that despite volumes of documentation and living witnesses who can attest to the horrors of the Holocaust, there are still those who would deny it. The Holocaust illustrates the consequences of prejudice, racism and stereotyping on a society. It forces us to examine the responsibilities of citizenship and confront the powerful ramifications of indifference and inaction.

norman
2nd February 2011, 11:12
I am not sure what you mean about tracking victims or perps? Could you explain what track means please?



My use of the word track was part of an attempt to lay out as full a perspective as possible as soon as possible to try to open up the discernible "tracks" of discussion before it got bogged down in bipolarities.

Perhaps I didn't need to try and perhaps I'd not be the right one to attempt to preface anything about this thread.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 11:12
It is deeply shocking and incomprehensible to me that despite volumes of documentation and living witnesses who can attest to the horrors of the Holocaust, there are still those who would deny it. The Holocaust illustrates the consequences of prejudice, racism and stereotyping on a society. It forces us to examine the responsibilities of citizenship and confront the powerful ramifications of indifference and inaction.

By all means, bring that info here for our discussion. That is the whole point of this thread.


My use of the word track was part of an attempt to lay out as full a perspective as possible as soon as possible to try to open up the discernible "tracks" of discussion before it got bogged down in bipolarities.

Perhaps I didn't need to try and perhaps I'd not be the right one to attempt to preface anything about this thread.

I am still not sure what you mean, but let me say this, I don't have any required area of discussion, the idea is for all of you guys to put that up here which you feel should be discussed.
Then, we beat the hell out of that topic till it's dead and move on.
I see this as a type of therapy and getting things out of our psyche, me included.

Martin
2nd February 2011, 11:15
The thing is, your first is very broad. Do you believe in what is presented to us as historical fact? Is that what you are referring to?

Well I have to say I never really thought about it that hard. The sheer number of crimes commited against human beeings in that time period is so tremendous that in the end every one has to carry a little bit of the consequences.

Did the holocaust happen? Were the german racial laws indtroduced? I do not know what you believe to be named holocaust, but If you ask me if I believe that there were camps where people were held against there will and killed for their believes, well yes that happened. There may be exaggerations concerning facts and numbers, but sadly that is part of history.

I can not say that the holocaust was a fraud so to speak, but if you have any thing you would recommend me to have a look at just shoot.


MfG


Martin

witchy1
2nd February 2011, 11:16
Righteo. *Deep breath*

My understanding is that 6 million people were murdered in the camps during WWII specifically set up for that purpose under the Nazi rulership of Adolf Hitler. It has been described by many as genocide and that the war was predominantely focussed on eliminating the Jewish race in its entireity. As evidence we see photos, personal testimony, eye witness accounts and museums dedicated to the "holocust". It is alledged that the majority of those murdered identified themselves as Jewish people however also inlcuded were Gypsies and intellectually challenged people. I do not know the numbers and assume there were other people as well.

The most notorious method of mass exocution was allegedly performed via application of xyclone b. Evidence exists by way of above as well as being able to physically view some camps that have been maintained since the war ended. Evidence also exists in the cremation area in the camps and photos identify that following gassing, bodies were cremated immediately

It is also understood that Hitler was trying to create a master race of aryan people based on blond hair and blue eyes with specific breeding programs for such purpose.

Lastly horrific medical experiments were carried out in the camps on the inmates under the care of Dr Mengele. He was alleged to have been taken to America following the war under operation paper clip where he was able to continue his work which included mind control and genetic manipulation. Much of which continues today

How is that for starters Lord Sidious?

modwiz
2nd February 2011, 11:24
It is deeply shocking and incomprehensible to me that despite volumes of documentation and living witnesses who can attest to the horrors of the Holocaust, there are still those who would deny it. The Holocaust illustrates the consequences of prejudice, racism and stereotyping on a society. It forces us to examine the responsibilities of citizenship and confront the powerful ramifications of indifference and inaction.

I missed who is denying it. Could be sloppy reading on my part so your help would be appreciated in pointing it out to me. This is not a thread for holocaust deniers.

witchy1
2nd February 2011, 11:28
If I may LS, In additon to above ground rules:

This is a thread for truth. Please ensure that any baggage is left at the door. Matters must be discussed on facts alone and supported by references.

Random statements about personal beliefs or disbeliefs will not add value neither will any stated alignment with any race religion or creed. Please come with an open mind ready for intellectual discussion.

Finger pointing and name calling not tolerated.

Addit: Original thread started by Teakai. This is to discuss topics that fell from there and any others of relevance. Lord Sidious has a wealth of knowledge that many are eager to listen to

Gustav
2nd February 2011, 11:41
I have on my computer a documentary by a person whose intentions I do not know completely. But what is verifiable is the next interesting part:
Right after WWII there was no consensus about the number of holocaust victims. Reports in French newspapers spoke about 3 million or less, some papers talked about smaller and larger number than the now accepted 6 millioin.

What I would like to point out with this is not that by downsizing the number of victims the act in itself becomes less evil. It is merely to point out that probably the 6 million number is based on a consensus that was established in the first few years after WW II. It could have been more people, it could have been less people I do not know.

What I do know is that not only jews where in the holocaust. Also gays, lesbians and gypsies where sent to the camps. And of course different nationalities that were very resistant to the germans, such as the poles and russians.

Last remark I would like to make is the interesting notion that Jordan Maxwell makes in one of his presentations. He mentions there that the word holocaust means a kind of offering. A quick lookup on wikipedia reveals two articles that give two slightly different meanings. Note that the second link gives much more explanation and that the first practically leaves out the part which explains it to be an offering. Although of course it remains Wikipedia and is not a definitive source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_%28sacrifice%29

Assuming that Jordan Maxwell is right in his explanation of the word Holocaust and in the light of the greater things going on than just a disgruntled people led by Hitler trying to exterminate all jews. What could be the purpose of such an offering of +/- 6 million souls?

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 11:55
Well I have to say I never really thought about it that hard. The sheer number of crimes commited against human beeings in that time period is so tremendous that in the end every one has to carry a little bit of the consequences.

Did the holocaust happen? Were the german racial laws indtroduced? I do not know what you believe to be named holocaust, but If you ask me if I believe that there were camps where people were held against there will and killed for their believes, well yes that happened. There may be exaggerations concerning facts and numbers, but sadly that is part of history.

I can not say that the holocaust was a fraud so to speak, but if you have any thing you would recommend me to have a look at just shoot.


MfG


Martin

Ok, first thing I should have done, sorry people, is define this word holocaust.
That should be taken for our discussion to mean the planned extirmination of not just jews, but the other internees of the camps as well.
So, no, it didn't happen, as far as I know.
And yes, the racial laws were introduced. Funny enough, I am told that they are very similar to those in place in israel now.


Righteo. *Deep breath*

My understanding is that 6 million people were murdered in the camps during WWII specifically set up for that purpose under the Nazi rulership of Adolf Hitler.

That number is what is claimed to be the jewish deaths alone. The overall claimed number is meant to be 12 million. Funny that it is exactly double. Oh, and funny that it is 6 million, not 5.648 million, you see what I mean?
That number is actually a very interesting number that I will get into later and you may be shocked to find out what it really is.
There were never 6 million jews in the areas Germany occupied or her allies, so it is physically impossible to have killed that many. So, where did that number come from? That I will show you later.
Oh, and the first concentration camp, Dachau was began before the NSDAP came to power.


It has been described by many as genocide and that the war was predominantely focussed on eliminating the Jewish race in its entireity.

If they had done that, then yes, it would have been genocide. If that were the main reason for the war, why did it take so long for the programme to begin? And what would be the benefit?


As evidence we see photos, personal testimony, eye witness accounts and museums dedicated to the "holocust".

As someone with legal training, let me put this idea to you, photographs and museums are circumstantial evidence that can show you many things, but more often than not, reflect the internal systems of the viewer more than they reflect anything else. Many of the photos have been doctored, some are not even photos but paintings that have then been photographed and some of the genuine photos are easily used with fake explanations pinned to them.
I will show you this too.


It is alledged that the majority of those murdered identified themselves as Jewish people however also inlcuded were Gypsies and intellectually challenged people.

Murder is a very interesting term. There were many who died in the camps. Some deserved it for crimes they had committed, most died from disease and malnutrition later on in the war when Germany was in such a state that supplies couldn't be guaranteed due to allied airpower.
Intellectually impaired people were killed early on until there were complaints and it was ordered to cease, which it did.


I do not know the numbers and assume there were other people as well.

I already spoke of that above.


The most notorious method of mass exocution was allegedly performed via application of xyclone b.

Zyklon B, or Cyclone B is a very common pesticide that is still made today by DuPont in America. It's actual use in the camps was for the eradication of lice. After the capture of large numbers of soviet prisoners and the conditions they were kept in, typhus started to rage as a lot of the soviets were lice ridden.
There is a gas chamber at Dachau that is real and was used for gassing bedding and clothing with Zyklon B. I say real as it was actually used and has certain features that are required for the use of Zyklon B which 99% of the other ''gas chambers'' do not, thereby rendering it impossible to use it in those ones.


Evidence exists by way of above as well as being able to physically view some camps that have been maintained since the war ended.

Again, the camps are mostly still there, some, such as Majdenek, Sobibor and Treblinka don't exist anymore and they are supposed to have been where 1/3 of the killings happened.
If you go to the Auschwitz Stammlager, they will show you the main ''gas chamber'' and tell you that it is original. However, the curator, a Dr F Peiper (excusing spelling) admitted to David Cole, an American jew, on camera that this is not true. It was actually put into its present condition by the Polish government after the war.


Evidence also exists in the cremation area in the camps and photos identify that following gassing, bodies were cremated immediately

That isn't the only version of the story. At Auschwitz, they claim bodies were burnt in deep pits. This is actually scientifically impossible as the whole area is reclaimed swampland and the water table is around 12 inches. The Stammlager is actually an old Polish army barracks taken over after they surrendered and predates the war.


It is also understood that Hitler was trying to create a master race of aryan people based on blond hair and blue eyes with specific breeding programs for such purpose.

That claim is one of what I call ''The kook claims'' as none of the senior members of any dept of the 3rd Reich were blond haired. The most senior one may have been Reinhard Heydrich, the head of the central security office.
What WAS claimed is that the nordics were the ideal aryan. The reasoning behind this is very esoteric and very controversial.
I would assume that you are aware of all of the accounts of ''gods'' from around the world through history that match that description? The idea was that the nordics were the closest to the progenitors that had altered our dna to start with.


Lastly horrific medical experiments were carried out in the camps on the inmates under the care of Dr Mengele.

Most of the claimed experiments are so bogus, I can't really believe that people believe them, other than they WANT to believe them.
For example, why would an SS Dr inject dye into someones eye to change the colour of it? What would be the benefit? And how would he do that?


He was alleged to have been taken to America following the war under operation paper clip where he was able to continue his work which included mind control and genetic manipulation. Much of which continues today

He wasn't part of that, he went to Argentina.


How is that for starters Lord Sidious?

100 points for you, you don't do anything 1/2 way.
Many thanks to you.
Oh, the reason I say we will get to stuff later is I am going to go find the info and post it here.


I have on my computer a documentary by a person whose intentions I do not know completely. But what is verifiable is the next interesting part:
Right after WWII there was no consensus about the number of holocaust victims. Reports in French newspapers spoke about 3 million or less, some papers talked about smaller and larger number than the now accepted 6 millioin.

That is still going on even today, but it is very dangerous. In Germany, if you aren't ''approved'' to mess with the numbers, you can go to jail for debating them and a lot have.
At the Auschwitz Stammlager, the original number on the plaque outside was 4 million, now it is 1 million, yet the 6 million figure never budges. Mess with that number and you will go to jail.


What I would like to point out with this is not that by downsizing the number of victims the act in itself becomes less evil. It is merely to point out that probably the 6 million number is based on a consensus that was established in the first few years after WW II. It could have been more people, it could have been less people I do not know.

If this never happened as we have been conditioned to feel, because most don't think about it, they feel, there is no evil and I would say that anyone saying that trying to get to the base of something is evil isn't truly a freethinker.


What I do know is that not only jews where in the holocaust. Also gays, lesbians and gypsies where sent to the camps. And of course different nationalities that were very resistant to the germans, such as the poles and russians.

True. There were a lot of Germans such as communists, gays, religious figures as well.


Last remark I would like to make is the interesting notion that Jordan Maxwell makes in one of his presentations. He mentions there that the word holocaust means a kind of offering. A quick lookup on wikipedia reveals two articles that give two slightly different meanings. Note that the second link gives much more explanation and that the first practically leaves out the part which explains it to be an offering. Although of course it remains Wikipedia and is not a definitive source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_%28sacrifice%29

Assuming that Jordan Maxwell is right in his explanation of the word Holocaust and in the light of the greater things going on than just a disgruntled people led by Hitler trying to exterminate all jews. What could be the purpose of such an offering of +/- 6 million souls?

It's real meaing is a sacrifice by fire, but that isn't an allegation of the story.

The One
2nd February 2011, 12:00
modwiz

I'm not denying it. I stated there are still those who would deny it.


Thankfully modwiz. there are very few holocaust deniers around to answer your question but if you look you will find. Even fewer who are brave enough I would imagine. They are not typified by personal qualities, let's face it. i didn't see the holocaust happen. I was born in the 70's. The reason I know the holocaust happened is that I have read history, the first recorded program against Jewish people happened in York in the 11th century. It is not as though there was no precedent. I also know it happened because another holocaust could happen at any time for example (Nuclear Holocaust). The so called civilised world thinks it is right about everything, and has the arrogance and political machinery to put their perverted ideas into practice. We also have a culture of greed and fear the essential ingredients for evil. While it is important to remember, respect and try to empathise with those who have suffered in the past. the most important thing is to recognise every little whisper of hatred, every covert attempt to find bigotry acceptable, and every ape like attempt to equate’ different with wrong. We are not apes though if we were. we would surely be insulted to be compared with racists, thugs, hooligans, monobrow idiots and murderers.

Perhaps those who claim nationalistic ambitions would like to explain themselves to those hundreds of thousands of British soldiers and other British victims of racist tyranny who lay in graves not yet 70years old. I doubt they will answer. Cowards never do.

General Eisenhower (as he then was) predicted that there would be people who would deny the Holocaust in 1945 when he visited the Death Camps. He instructed the military and civilian newsreel men to record all the horror because as he said in fifty years some people will deny this took place

Icecold
2nd February 2011, 12:12
At university I was involved in the Holocaust debate. I read as many of the relevant papers as possible for me at the time. I had other concerns which related to my PhD, which lightly touched on this subject.

OK. I define the Holocaust as a unique genocide and cultural event of the Second World War . There are many genocides, they continue to happen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pogroms against Jews have been a regular historical event since the rise of 'christian civilisation'. Pogroms have been perpetrated by both Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths.

The origins of the Nazi holocaust have their roots in Roman Catholic beliefs inculcated in school textbooks of the period. They were in the texts until the 1960s. Propaganda films of the period lend significant evidence to this view. Roman Catholic and not Russian Orthodox because the Nazi party at its head was a party ruled by Roman Catholics. This is a matter of fact and can be proven easily by examining church records. There were actually two genocide events in Europe at the time. The other was the genocide of Serbs by the Ustashi. Both were based on deciding victims by religious faith.

The Nazi holocaust was not initially a holocaust. It was a forced expulsion (with cruelty and murder) of Jews and Gypsies from Nazi occupied territory. The property of these individuals was
taken by the state. They were herded into concentration points, and sent to towns and districts earmarked for them....such as Warsaw and Lublin. Many were sent to forced labor camps which were ubiquitous throughout Nazi and Soviet occupied territories of the time. Forced labor was very big in both the USSR and Nazi Germany.

This was the situation until Germany invaded Russia. After 1941, German casualties in Russia became a huge drain on the male population of Germany. They were suffering on average 20,000
casualties a week. As this situation continued, the Nazi regime saw a problem in the following light....as Hitler said to a lady friend regarding the reasons for the final solution program...'we are losing 20000 German a week on the Eastern Front. We need to balance the blood in Europe for the future.' a rough translation.

Mass extermination became a norm after the invasion of Russia. It began in the Baltic states, the Ukraine and to a lesser extent in Belorussia. Most of the exterminations were not, as commonly believed to have been carried out by the SS. They were carried out by Police battalions.

Now is where it gets sticky. The holocaust is associated with German concentration camps. I have my doubts about the history of these events. Not that many deaths occurred in camps, they did surely. However, I doubt that the camps were intentionally setup for mass murder. This makes little sense as most were labour camps. Its not a good idea to kill all your labourers.

So, yes there was a holocaust which is undeniable. There were however mass killings at camps and at other places. But there is a lot of bad history in relation to the purpose of particular camps. Much of this is mythology. This is the problem with the holocaust debate its the mythologies that are at threat and cause the most angst.

Fred259
2nd February 2011, 12:17
[QUOTE=Lancelot;118279][QUOTE=Fred259;116659]

[QUOTE]Why is this only about the jews that were in the camps? What about the others?

Good question. It’s only the Jews (sadly) because the Zionists can control the Jews.


And so what that people can go to the camps today? You may be interested to know that what is shown to you as an original gas chamber at the Auschwitz Stammlager, is in fact, an after war ''reproduction'' built by the Polish government.

Agreed, is all part of the crime and part of the deception.


So whatever benefit you think you may get by seeing a supposed crime scene over 65 years later may be less than you think.

Agreed. The problem is a very small minority of “radical Jews” think that because of the Holocaust, they could gain advantage. The Zionists are using the Jews for a greater agenda.



And yes to your question, even though you didn't ask me. I do deny the events as described and commonly accepted are true.

This would indeed seem to be the case. Again the hand of the Zionist is clear for all to see.


If you are jewish, then I implore you to break through the paradigm that your people are stuck in. The paradigm of ''anti-semitism'' that scares so many jews.

The Jews have nothing to fear from mankind.

“Anti Semitism” is a new word created by the Zionist.

The Zionists create this fear and foster uncertainty. They do this in order to control the Jews. The Hyksos were very clever people and the modern day Jew has the Hyksos gene.

Clear thinking Jews can see this manipulation which is why they say, “Jews are not Zionists”, and “Zionism is about the State and the military”. This is correct.


Reject all information, regardless of the source until YOU are satisfied it is true, that is what I have done and continue to do.

Many Jews know this already, this is why they distance themselves from Zionism.

The Zionist deception is crafted to manipulate governments for the Zionist cause. An example of this is the never ending situation with Iran.

Israel will never attack Iran, it has no strategic capability ( other than WMD). Iran is a vast country, and Israel just a pin prick. This Zionist scaremongering of possible war is manipulation and control too justify the existence of the Zionist military industrial complex.

Clear thinking Jews know this, which is why they say Zionism is about State and Military. This is correct.


The jews are THE most controlled group on the planet and they have suffered their own rulers planting ideas and concepts into their consciousness to control them for their own ends.

Indeed My Lord Indeed. Need I say more…


This HAS to stop and to stop it, we must break the shackles.
One of the links in those shackles is this holohoax rubbish.

Agreed. The rise of Zionism is dark cloud over humanity. Conceived with lies and manipulation by creating a Holocaust, it’s a deception on mankind that never did exist.

This deception reaches into all our lives through the subversion of our governments and state.

The very existence of AIPAC within the United States is an utter abomination. It’s precisely organisation like AIPAC who are destroying the US and bringing that once great country to its knees.

It’s the same old dogma here in the United Kingdom.

"Friends of Israel" (FOI) an evil, subversive and repugnant organisation, who like AIPAC in the US is destroying the UK.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 13:27
modwiz

I'm not denying it. I stated there are still those who would deny it.


Thankfully modwiz. there are very few holocaust deniers around to answer your question but if you look you will find. Even fewer who are brave enough I would imagine. They are not typified by personal qualities, let's face it. i didn't see the holocaust happen. I was born in the 70's. The reason I know the holocaust happened is that I have read history, the first recorded program against Jewish people happened in York in the 11th century. It is not as though there was no precedent. I also know it happened because another holocaust could happen at any time for example (Nuclear Holocaust). The so called civilised world thinks it is right about everything, and has the arrogance and political machinery to put their perverted ideas into practice. We also have a culture of greed and fear the essential ingredients for evil. While it is important to remember, respect and try to empathise with those who have suffered in the past. the most important thing is to recognise every little whisper of hatred, every covert attempt to find bigotry acceptable, and every ape like attempt to equate’ different with wrong. We are not apes though if we were. we would surely be insulted to be compared with racists, thugs, hooligans, monobrow idiots and murderers.

Perhaps those who claim nationalistic ambitions would like to explain themselves to those hundreds of thousands of British soldiers and other British victims of racist tyranny who lay in graves not yet 70years old. I doubt they will answer. Cowards never do.

General Eisenhower (as he then was) predicted that there would be people who would deny the Holocaust in 1945 when he visited the Death Camps. He instructed the military and civilian newsreel men to record all the horror because as he said in fifty years some people will deny this took place

You know what? None of us KNOWS a thing about it, as you said, we weren't there.
And let me ask you this, who declared war? Germany? Or not?
And yes, the Americans filmed the camps they captured in Germany. If you recall, those camps are now, not considered ''death camps'' as those were all in the soviet zone. None of the western allies ever saw those camps, they were offlimits.
I will see if I can find the Dachau film online and post it. See the difference from then to now as far as the story goes.



OK. I define the Holocaust as a unique genocide and cultural event of the Second World War .

How can you say that and then talk about the Ustasha later?


There are many genocides, they continue to happen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pogroms against Jews have been a regular historical event since the rise of 'christian civilisation'. Pogroms have been perpetrated by both Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths.

That is true, but outside the context of this debate. We can talk about that later as it is related.


The origins of the Nazi holocaust have their roots in Roman Catholic beliefs inculcated in school textbooks of the period. They were in the texts until the 1960s. Propaganda films of the period lend significant evidence to this view. Roman Catholic and not Russian Orthodox because the Nazi party at its head was a party ruled by Roman Catholics. This is a matter of fact and can be proven easily by examining church records.

There is far more to the treatment of jews in Germany than this. This may be a small part of it, but there are many others.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/images/sitepics/dailyexpress1933.gif
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/jewishwar.cfm


There were actually two genocide events in Europe at the time. The other was the genocide of Serbs by the Ustashi. Both were based on deciding victims by religious faith.

No, there were more than that. There was the holodomor in the Ukraine, various massacres, such as the 38,000 officers and dissidents stalin had killed, the 15,000 officers at Katyn and others.
I would suggest to you that the differences between the Serbians and Croatians, like most neighbours is not one simple thing.
Are you aware of the mass killings of Croatians around the end of the war in Europe by the mainly Serbian guerillas? Men, women, children and the soldiers with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_massacre
The article seems to be a bit biased, but you will get the general idea.
There were no unique massacres then, now or at anytime. I want to be free of this madness and to do so, we have to change us first.


The Nazi holocaust was not initially a holocaust. It was a forced expulsion (with cruelty and murder) of Jews and Gypsies from Nazi occupied territory.

Erm, no. The vast majority never left Germany/occupied territory. Lots of jews did, but not most.
Think about it, if they did, how could they have been in the camps or, as the story goes, genocided?


The property of these individuals was taken by the state.

Indeed it was and I bet none of you know why?
As per the Haavara Agreement, the jews were encouraged to leave Germany and go to Palestine as it was then. The thing was, the british had made it a prerequisite that any jew landing had to have x amount of pounds sterling in cash with them. This amount went up as more and more arrived.
The money came from the communal pool that was the confiscated property. It didn't matter whether or not you could afford to go or not, the pool was used to provide the capital.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement


They were herded into concentration points, and sent to towns and districts earmarked for them....such as Warsaw and Lublin. Many were sent to forced labor camps which were ubiquitous throughout Nazi and Soviet occupied territories of the time. Forced labor was very big in both the USSR and Nazi Germany.
There were camps in the UK, Canada, US and Australia for Germans, Italians and Japanese too. They also did labour, not as heavy as the German camps, I think.


As this situation continued, the Nazi regime saw a problem in the following light....as Hitler said to a lady friend regarding the reasons for the final solution program...'we are losing 20000 German a week on the Eastern Front. We need to balance the blood in Europe for the future.' a rough translation.

Could you provide some info on this please? I haven't heard this one before and I have been around for a while.


Mass extermination became a norm after the invasion of Russia. It began in the Baltic states, the Ukraine and to a lesser extent in Belorussia. Most of the exterminations were not, as commonly believed to have been carried out by the SS. They were carried out by Police battalions.

The question is, who were they killing? Yes, there were jews, they were always being killed on the eastern front.
But why?
There were heaps of partisans on the eastern front and a large number were jews.
http://jewishpartisans.org/t_switch.php?pageName=what+is+what+1
They even made a movie based on it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1034303/
I would suggest that you guys do a bit of reading about it, because some of the stories of partisan brutality are legendarily nasty, so I don't want that in here.


Now is where it gets sticky. The holocaust is associated with German concentration camps. I have my doubts about the history of these events. Not that many deaths occurred in camps, they did surely. However, I doubt that the camps were intentionally setup for mass murder. This makes little sense as most were labour camps. Its not a good idea to kill all your labourers.

This is how logic can trump emotion and fantasy. This is why I said about clean debate. We agree on this point.


So, yes there was a holocaust which is undeniable. There were however mass killings at camps and at other places. But there is a lot of bad history in relation to the purpose of particular camps. Much of this is mythology. This is the problem with the holocaust debate its the mythologies that are at threat and cause the most angst.

No, it isn't undeniable, it is open.
Why is it that there are no mass graves of jews on the eastern front that have been found?
Ukrainians, Poles and Russians, yes, but no jews. Why is that?

RedeZra
2nd February 2011, 17:52
Something is not right when one can end up in jail for questioning an official story

to pull off a holohoax it would take the whole Western establishment - who would want to go up against that - and become an enemy of the State ?

It's safer to challenge the theory of evolution or 9/11 for that matter

the Holocoast story is too hot and holy for the PTB - it still serves some purpose in the Zionist struggle for a Homeworld


But it is cracking - like the second temple - for obstructing Truth ; )

mrmalco
2nd February 2011, 18:12
I am not angry, what makes you say that?
I have been researching the whole thing for over 25 years.
You?

I thought capital letters meant you were shouting. My mistake - apologies.




I wrote a long reply from the many personal accounts I heard about this topic. Early 1960s onwards and my Mum's info. from the wartime letters of Winston Churchill - she was in 'the Censorship' tasked with reading and cutting out sensitive material from his private correspondence to various Irish friends. There was the risk of mail-carrying ships being sunk or intercepted and mail that gave the Luftwaffe clues as to where their bombs were falling, getting into German hands. Apparently Churchill was really indiscreet. Anyway ... a freeze on the PC lost that - and you'd said you weren't interested in personal accounts (they are by the way, when in numbers and from different sources, the actual meat of history) - so here's the most recent real chewy topic from the mass of stuff I've been through on the net.

The Fatal Flaw in Holocaust Denial - Peter Myers, February 6, 2009

Over the years, I have put out material by Deniers from time to time, especially given the anti-Zionist position common to both Far Left and Far Right.

In balance, I put out large chunks of The Black Book of Communism, and the complete text of Otto Strasser's books exposing Hitler.

That does not mean that I support the status quo; far from it. It means that both of these two alternatives (Soviet & Nazi) were totalitarian.

The anti-Zionist movement seems to be drifing towards Holocaust-Denial, in the sense that I get quite a few emails from a Denialist perspective, and relatively few the other way. Barring the Zionists, of course (but they're not on my mailing list, and anyway I get few emails from them).

For years I was too busy, or perhaps just not interested enough, to tackle this issue. The constant media bombardment about "The Holocaust" bored me to tears; it would put anybody off the topic, just as one avoids nagging if one can.

Some Deniers had been urging me to get into it, but I kept postponing my reading of their material.

In the last month, that's all changed; I can hardly remember how I got started, but I've becpme an avid reader. However, I've spotted a fatal flaw in the Denier material; and since that realization, I've been tracking down quality material on the anti-Denier position.

In the next few weeks, I will make this a major theme of these bulletins.

The fatal flaw of the Deniers concerns the "Final Solution" to the Jewish Problem. The Deniers say that, instead of this meaning Extermination, it meant Resettlement in the East. That is, east of Poland. Not in the Ukraine, because that was for German settlement (and colonisation of the natives as peasant farmers). The main candidate was Belarus (White Russia, Ruthenia, White Ruthenia).

The Deniers have written reams on Gas Chambers - denying them - but next to nothing of where those millions of Jews evacuated from the West, actually went to.

At this point a distinction must be made. The Nazis imposed a Selection system, dividing Jews into those to be put to work as labourers, and the rest. Old men, old women, and children were routinely put into the second group. It's these people who were either killed or resettled.

Some German train schedules (timetables for the transposts to the concentration camps) still survive, and show that there were quite a lot of trains to Auschwitz, some from Western Europe, but especially from Poland.

There were far fewer trains to Minsk and other parts of Belarus, and they look like regular passenger trains.

Bialystok is in the north-east of Poland. Trainloads of Jews from Bialystok were sent to Auschwitz and Treblinka, both to the south-west. Yet Belarus is to the EAST of Bialystok. If you wanted to resettle these Jews in the East, you wouldn't send them West.

Witnesses say that at Auschwitz, Jews faced Selection - some as Labourers, the rest for Extermination. At Treblinka, there was no Selection because there were no Labour Camps there. It was just Extermination.

If you wanted to resettle Bialystok's Jews in the East, but first select some for labour at Auschwitz' work camps, you would do the selecting at Bialystok itself, sending some West (to work) and the others East (for resettlement). Yet we never hear of selections in that way. Instead, they are always reported at concentration camps.

To move millions of people from West to East, for peaceful resettlement, would entail the building of new cities, consuming scarce resources during wartime.

The clincher is the case of Hungary's Jews, which were not sent to Auschwitz until mid 1944, when the Russians were closing in.

Have a look at this map of the eastern front, noting the dates at which the Russians retook various lands: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eastern_Front_1943-08_to_1944-12.png

By mid 1944, there was no possibility of resettling Jews in Belarus (White Russia, Ruthenia, White Ruthenia). Yet this is when Hungary's Jews were sent to Auschwitz.

The Deniers have no answer to this. This is End-Game for Holocaust Denial.


If you want some detail on what I learned from my wife's family, her family's friends in Belfast, seminars with Alan Bullock (ex UK Intelligence Oxford Professor who did some visitor seminars on Hitler when I was at Cambridge), what I learned while working at the Ockenden Venture refugee agency that had plenty of ex-camp people still in the works 30 years later - mainly too damaged to move on, what I learned on two tours of Poland as the UK Aid co-ordinator 1980 - 84 ... I'll rewrite the thing I wrote.

If there's been a rebutal of Myers's stuff above I'd be interested to know it.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 19:27
Something is not right when one can end up in jail for questioning an official story

to pull off a holohoax it would take the whole Western establishment - who would want to go up against that - and become an enemy of the State ?

It's safer to challenge the theory of evolution or 9/11 for that matter

the Holocoast story is too hot and holy for the PTB - it still serves some purpose in the Zionist struggle for a Homeworld


But it is cracking - like the second temple - for obstructing Truth ; )

There are people in jail all over Europe for this. If this is so obvious, why jail people?
That is one thing no one can explain to my satisfaction.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 19:35
If I post LIKE THIS, I am not yelling, it is just emphasis.
I don't recall saying I am not interested in personal accounts, although I would tell you that most are either easily shown to contain feats that are impossible, things misplaced or the like.
If you want to post stuff like that, go ahead, but in my thread, if you would please.
As for the final solution, that was postponed until after the war had finished and all the jews in captivity were to be concentrated in the camps.
They kicked around where to send them with Madagascar, Uganda and Palestine all destinations that were discussed, with Palestine being the only one they actually did send jews to before the war.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Schlegelberger/Schlegelberger42.JPG
Translation:
"Mr Reich Minister Lammers informed me that the Führer had repeatedly declared to him that he wants to hear that the Solution of the Jewish Problem has been postponed until after the war is over. That being so, the current discussions are of purely theoretical value, in Mr Reich Minister Lammers' opinion. He will moreover take pains to ensure that, whatever else happens, no fundamental decisions are taken without his knowledge in consequence of a surprise briefing by any third party."
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Schlegelberger/DocItself0342.html
There is some other discussion on this page
http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/history/8632/Examining-the-final-solution-documentation-IN-CONTEXT
and I would urge you to see how the holocaust believers behave.

gardunk
2nd February 2011, 20:14
how about asking if it has stopped rather than question if it happened as His story says/ The PTB existed long before those inhumane acts were perpetrated and it was a lot more than about the Jews...

Fred259
2nd February 2011, 20:45
In conjunction I often wonder how most people seem to think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a mean to end a war

Valid point


Holocaust as a brand. Well that seems to be very true and I once listened to a group of jews who said that this brand is badly needed by the Zionists to justify there sole existence and for accomplishing there goals.Did they say what there Goals were Martin? I wonder do they have a list.

aikisaw
2nd February 2011, 20:52
I read the book IBM and the Holocaust several years ago. http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/


I was impressed with the detail in which they broke down IBM's involvement.

The Germans and IBM kept detailed records on everything. It would seem that that the record keeping could cut both ways. If the record keeping is as impressive as stated it should leave clues as to what the truth is.

While I understand this book as it applies to this thread that could be all propaganda, I want to hear your thoughts on this book.

I do not know who is correct. It has been frustrating to not be able to have a conversation about it. I am looking forward to the one happening here.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 21:09
I read the book IBM and the Holocaust several years ago. http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/


I was impressed with the detail in which they broke down IBM's involvement.

The Germans and IBM kept detailed records on everything. It would seem that that the record keeping could cut both ways. If the record keeping is as impressive as stated it should leave clues as to what the truth is.

While I understand this book as it applies to this thread that could be all propaganda, I want to hear your thoughts on this book.

I do not know who is correct. It has been frustrating to not be able to have a conversation about it. I am looking forward to the one happening here.

I have never read the book, so I can't offer an opinion. What I can say is this, the books of the camps in the soviet zone are all in the archives in Moscow.
Why are they never spoken of? Why aren't they brought out to show the world what the ''evil nazis'' did?

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 21:11
how about asking if it has stopped rather than question if it happened as His story says/ The PTB existed long before those inhumane acts were perpetrated and it was a lot more than about the Jews...

That is a very interesting question and I thank you for it. There have been massacres all through time in all places.
I don't see any evidence that it has ceased. In fact, some of those nations that sat at Nurnberg are now committing the massacres themselves, Iraq and Afghanistan for example.

bearcow
2nd February 2011, 21:24
Not telling anyone that they should or should not discuss this topic on the forum. But if someone wanted to bring this site down, this thread is an about an issue that could be turned quite easily against Bill and other forum members as justification that they were supporting anti Semitic beliefs and should be censured.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 21:29
Not telling anyone that they should or should not discuss this topic on the forum. But if someone wanted to bring this site down, this thread is an about an issue that could be turned quite easily against Bill and other forum members as justification that they were supporting anti Semitic beliefs and should be censured.

Thanks for the concern, but how can discussing the truth ever be anti - anything?
I know what you are getting at, but there are enough people here who wish to discuss it and I want to try and show people how we can break the paradigm of anti - semitism.
So shutting the thread would in itself, be not helpful to jews.
Some of them may not agree, but that is life.

aikisaw
2nd February 2011, 22:01
Not telling anyone that they should or should not discuss this topic on the forum. But if someone wanted to bring this site down, this thread is an about an issue that could be turned quite easily against Bill and other forum members as justification that they were supporting anti Semitic beliefs and should be censured.

I hear you.

I would say that if everything that I was ever taught about the holocaust stands up to available evidence that is fine with me. Can we at least find out.? It is possible that Lord Sidious has no idea what he is talking about. Can we find out?

The fact that even talking about it is radioactive.... sets off alarms with me. In my opinion this is the only piece of history you cannot talk about. You have to accept what has been taught. Why??

Aliens, church secrets, government secrets, mystery schools, 9-11, 7-7, Federal Reserve, God, ancient civilizations, genetics, secret space programs, alien human hybrids, all, we can discuss......but a 10 year or less period is off limits....makes no sense.

I'm not suggesting you be disrespectful to the what is the official version or the truth for all I know ....but lets talk about it.

I would add that everything that knew or thought I knew about the subjects above turned out to be wrong.

Lord Sidious
2nd February 2011, 22:17
All I ask is an open mind and respect for each others opinions.

Gustav
2nd February 2011, 23:32
On the issue of being jailed for questioning the official story on the holocaust. Two days ago it was proposed by the Central Jewish Organization in the Netherlands to impose "quick-law" on people who disagree/deny with the holocaust story. "Quick-law" is having your case handled with priority in the legal process. I do not know the proper legal english terminology. Why is the number of 6 million so fixed if even/also on plates in Austria lower numbers are mentioned. Is this having something to do with numerology, the power of numbers and the symbolic value of them?

Lord Sidious, you seem to know quick a bit about this subject, the holocaust. What is your background if I might ask?

Fred259
2nd February 2011, 23:38
[
QUOTE=bearcow;119726]Not telling anyone that they should or should not discuss this topic on the forum. But if someone wanted to bring this site down, this thread is an about an issue that could be turned quite easily against Bill and other forum members as justification that they were supporting anti Semitic beliefs and should be censured.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Bearcow,

I was interested in some of your comments.

When you say that some forum members were supporting anti-Semitic beliefs what do you mean by that?

Are we not allowed to investigate the crimes of the Zionist? These are the people who have subverted and destroyed your great country. Do you understand that? The White House is infested with them; Obama was manufactured by the Zionists and his controller David Axelrod.

Your Vice President Joe Biden repeatedly says “I am a Zionist” What a disappointment it was when I saw that. Why did he not say “I am an American”, and stick his chest out?

I am Joe Biden, I am a Zionist, I am a puppet for the New World Order. What an abomination, this is your vice president. Why do you allow this to happen?

Lord Sidious
3rd February 2011, 00:24
On the issue of being jailed for questioning the official story on the holocaust. Two days ago it was proposed by the Central Jewish Organization in the Netherlands to impose "quick-law" on people who disagree/deny with the holocaust story. "Quick-law" is having your case handled with priority in the legal process. I do not know the proper legal english terminology. Why is the number of 6 million so fixed if even/also on plates in Austria lower numbers are mentioned. Is this having something to do with numerology, the power of numbers and the symbolic value of them?

Lord Sidious, you seem to know quick a bit about this subject, the holocaust. What is your background if I might ask?

Let me tell you a little story.
When I was about 10 or 11, there was a mini series that came on tv called The Holocaust. This was the first (Jump in anyone if I am wrong here) tv show to make a big deal of this. I KNEW this was not true. How? I have never figured this out, yet.
So, I started to read and I have finished yet. From what I can see, this ''holocaust'' is in the jewish religious prophecies going back quite a ways.
And I believe it is part of a mind control paradigm used to control the jews and to set them up as patsies for some future event.
Now, I hate slavery and my belief is that slavery is like a contagious disease, if it exists somewhere on this planet, it can and will spread again.
So the only solution is to endeavour to free us all.
The shackles we wear today are NOT physical, they are mental. I can see that TPTB are running a psyop on the whole planet and this ''holocaust'' nonsense is a huge part of it.
If we are to be free, we have to move through this.
This generates so much negative energy for all of us, it has to be turned off.
Is that what you wanted to know?

Zook
3rd February 2011, 01:35
Hi folks,

There's two threads currently discussing the Holocaust now. In the interests of focus, I think it's best we merge the two threads. Since the other thread started earlier, I will merge this discussion with the ongoing discussion there. Both threads will be up for 24 hrs. After that, all the discussion here will shift to the other thread. Thank you for your co-operation.

karelia
3rd February 2011, 05:22
Hi folks,

There's two threads currently discussing the Holocaust now. In the interests of focus, I think it's best we merge the two threads. Since the other thread started earlier, I will merge this discussion with the ongoing discussion there. Both threads will be up for 24 hrs. After that, all the discussion here will shift to the other thread. Thank you for your co-operation.

Well, I found another threat, but it ended with exactly the same message as this one. Any chance you could give a link or point in the general direction? This is a topic I'm very interested in, having grown up in Germany, and I would love to continue reading and maybe even share my thoughts, so I'm kind of keen on following it.
Thanks.

RedeZra
3rd February 2011, 05:46
From 1929 onwards USA used Zyklon B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B) to disinfect the freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/7083,news-comment,news-politics,how-mexican-immigration-inspired-the-nazis) entering the US

Zyklon B was also used in Germany as a general delousing of buildings - specific chambers inside concentration camps - those with prussian blue walls - were most likely used to delouse clothes and mattresses to prevent an epidemic outbreak of typhus


In the Leuchter report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchter_report) from 1988 Fred A. Leuchter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter) sampled pieces of the walls and ceiling of the alleged gas chambers and sent them for analysis. The test responses showed no elevated concentrations of ferrocyanide which meant that the room designated as gas chambers are unlikely to have been used for the alleged purpose

the German revisionist Germar Rudolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germar_Rudolf) performed a similar study by Leuchter and reached the same conclusion - no elevated concentrations of ferrocyanide in the alleged gas chambers


History is written by the victors of war and if truth doesn't serve the victors then it becomes a victim like the rest of us

Gustav
3rd February 2011, 11:16
Thank you Lord Sidious, that is what I wanted to know. It reminds me of two things.
1. He who is falsely believing to be free is the most shackled prisoner.
2. truth needs only to be told once.

That is what I have been wondering since uncovering other stories than what I was learned in schools. While the things that i've read on my own discoveries are sticking with me, conventional history had to be repeated over and over again since I was small. Yet most of it I can now show to be false or mispresented.
Education is indeed a way of creating an mental environment in which you are allowed to wander around, but not to cross any lines and the Holocaust learns you just that I think. Cross the line of talking about facts that do not fit the paradigm and you will be punished.
That also connects with the saying that the propaganda minister of the nazi's had: don't tell a small lie, people will discover it. Tell a very big lie and people will accept/believe it.

Gustav
3rd February 2011, 11:28
Thank you Sidious, that is what I wanted to know.
Since education provides the shackles of the mind, could the holocaust on a certain level be used to restrain people from wandering outside the things that they have been learned?

Moderator: I would like this post removed if possible? I do not know how.

Lord Sidious
3rd February 2011, 13:15
From 1929 onwards USA used Zyklon B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B) to disinfect the freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/7083,news-comment,news-politics,how-mexican-immigration-inspired-the-nazis) entering the US

Zyklon B was also used in Germany as a general delousing of buildings - specific chambers inside concentration camps - those with prussian blue walls - were most likely used to delouse clothes and mattresses to prevent an epidemic outbreak of typhus


In the Leuchter report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchter_report) from 1988 Fred A. Leuchter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter) sampled pieces of the walls and ceiling of the alleged gas chambers and sent them for analysis. The test responses showed no elevated concentrations of ferrocyanide which meant that the room designated as gas chambers are unlikely to have been used for the alleged purpose

the German revisionist Germar Rudolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germar_Rudolf) performed a similar study by Leuchter and reached the same conclusion - no elevated concentrations of ferrocyanide in the alleged gas chambers


History is written by the victors of war and if truth doesn't serve the victors then it becomes a victim like the rest of us

Fred Leuchter had a movie made about him to make him out to be an idiot and Germar Rudolf did jail time for this thesis that he was asked to write.
The thing that some people may not know is that the Polish government did the same type of testing as Leuchter to refute him and found he was right, so they sunk the test results.
We will read a bit about zyklon b and how you use it, so that we can see the ''gas chambers'' and the stories of them are all fake.


Thank you Lord Sidious, that is what I wanted to know.

Excellent.


It reminds me of two things.
1. He who is falsely believing to be free is the most shackled prisoner.
2. truth needs only to be told once.

Very good observations.


That is what I have been wondering since uncovering other stories than what I was learned in schools. While the things that i've read on my own discoveries are sticking with me, conventional history had to be repeated over and over again since I was small. Yet most of it I can now show to be false or mispresented.
Education is indeed a way of creating an mental environment in which you are allowed to wander around, but not to cross any lines and the Holocaust learns you just that I think. Cross the line of talking about facts that do not fit the paradigm and you will be punished.

See, I think the holocaust is a religion. It needs no physical evidence, only faith, it doesn't accept dissenting views and if you do dissent, you are treated as a heretic.


That also connects with the saying that the propaganda minister of the nazi's had: don't tell a small lie, people will discover it. Tell a very big lie and people will accept/believe it.

Boy o boy, do I have a HUGE revelation for you.
It wasn't Goebbels, it was Hitler in Mein Kampf.
You wanna see irony? Check this out.

The source of Big Lie technique is this passage, taken from Chapter 10 of James Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf:

But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.
All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]

In that same chapter, Hitler accused "the Jews" of what he claimed was their use of the Big Lie.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie
Can you see that by the way they tell us Hitler spoke of the big lie, in a way that we believe he was promoting it, they in fact proved him right?


Thank you Sidious, that is what I wanted to know.
Since education provides the shackles of the mind, could the holocaust on a certain level be used to restrain people from wandering outside the things that they have been learned?

Moderator: I would like this post removed if possible? I do not know how.

Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I am doing this because that is what it is for, to control peoples thoughts.
I made up my own little one liner about politcal correctness and it is this;
Politcal correctness is a gastric band for the intellect
and that is true for this as well.

str8thinker
3rd February 2011, 23:54
I came across an interesting reference to the Cymry:


The Khumry people write:

“The wrath of the sky-monster [Destroyer] was loosed in the Heavens. It lashed about in flaming fury, roaring like a thousand thunders; it poured down fiery destruction amid a welter of thick black blood. So awesome was the fearfully aspected thing that the memory mercifully departed from man, his thoughts were smothered under a cloud of forgetfulness... Man survived, but he was not the same. The sun was not as it had been and a moon was taken away...He looked up into the Heavens above in fear for...the placid skies would hold a terrifying secret.”

Nibiru And The ‘lost Tribes Of Israel’ Connection (http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/gregjenner19.html)

Icecold
4th February 2011, 05:04
Thank you those that responded to my post.

Lord Sidious, the use of obscure newspaper editorial views which are not representative of the wider view extant at the time, are not evidence of anything...at least not in an academic historical debate. They may have some merit in the back room of a skin head club. Also there is documentary film evidence of the systematic murder of jews in the Ukraine by German Police units. Ohlendorf and Muller testified to the fact that there was systematic murder of Jews by their SD units. Good enough.

No, there were TWO holocaust events, as I said. AFTER 1941 the Ukrainian murders were carried out by SD or SD controlled units. Prior to the war their were pogroms and mass deaths by shooting and starvation carried out by Stalinist elements. These are contextually related to the period of Stalin's 5 Year plans.

I have nothing more to say on the issue. Good luck ladies and gentlemen.

Lord Sidious
4th February 2011, 05:29
A lot of the Germans who ''testified'' did so under duress.
Hoess one of the kommandants of Auschwitz, was told that if he didn't sign the testimony provided to him, then his wife and kids would be given over to the soviets.
We know this, because of a british guard who wrote that in his book.
I will get that reference later.

Chicodoodoo
4th February 2011, 07:20
Do you think that the PTB have a different set of sociopaths?

I strongly suspect children experiment with telling lies on their own volition. Sociopaths have a need to hide their true nature, which is at odds with the caring nature of most humans. Lies are an important part of maintaining that secrecy. So sociopaths lie whenever necessary, and that means they lie more often unless they can successfully blend in. The PTB are the most adept sociopaths, probably keeping things so well hidden that they have little need to lie, which is a better strategy. For example, we don't even know who the PTB are.

Chicodoodoo
4th February 2011, 08:28
I have to doubt the accuracy of the Holocaust story for these reasons:

1. Most of history is not recorded.
2. History is often subtly changed with each retelling before it is recorded.
3. Most of history that is recorded is recorded to serve some agenda, so it is further biased.
4. Most of the recorded history that is selected to be taught is selected to serve some agenda.
5. Most people are quite ignorant of history, including those that teach it. How could they not be, based on the prior statements?

So if someone says what we know of the Holocaust is significantly in error, I'm there! When there is a determined effort to censor any challenges to recorded “fact”, I get really suspicious.

Of course, using history to correct history presents even more challenges. Oh boy, another bottomless rabbit hole...

bearcow
4th February 2011, 17:37
When you say that some forum members were supporting anti-Semitic beliefs what do you mean by that?

I have not seen nor do I believe people here are supporting anti-Semitic beliefs, i am simply stating that this topic is a very emotionally charged one, it's easier for the enemies of this forum to twist and shape what is said here to their advantage.


Are we not allowed to investigate the crimes of the Zionist? These are the people who have subverted and destroyed your great country. Do you understand that? The White House is infested with them; Obama was manufactured by the Zionists and his controller David Axelrod.

I am aware of the role that Zionism plays in the USA and Israel , of course people should investigate the truth. This is a community, we have not only a responsibility to the truth, but also to the welfare of the forum itself and it's members. Seeing the possible ramifications of how the discussion of an issue plays out should also be put in account.


Why do you allow this to happen?

I am only one man

Leon
4th February 2011, 19:54
I also see people arguing about things proven,

The camps seem to have started as forced labour camps, transcripts deciphered from most camps to Berlin show every death and cause in the camps.
Zyklon-B it seems was either not used or not used excessively in the camps as this leaves a permanent stain on the walls which has been proven not to be there!
So why did people blow the stories out of proportion, why did so many lie to make the German’s seem like much worse people then most German’s are. Every basket of apples has it’s rotten apple’s!
Every country has people who do and enjoy doing evil things…
Why have the deaths shown at certain camps been changed at least 3 times since the war?
I disagree with people killing people believe me, but I don’t like the lies told good or bad.
Was this all a testing ground of what is yet to happen?
Perhaps that is why we are discussing what has happened, so we can see what is happening in the world? Why are there over 800 Fema camps (concentration camps) in America???
As we know the new world order states the world is over populated, but the new world order has been going for a long time, was ww2 just a test? We know who funded the German leaders rise to power and who funded some of the camps, so why do some people still try and hide these fact’s?

Read the posts..........

Gustav
4th February 2011, 22:31
I also see people arguing about things proven,

In my opinion there is nothing wrong to shed light on things you personally already know. Just to be sure to see that what you know can be verified or debunked by people that have different views. That enables us to eliminate the "burden" of known knowledge and indeed turn to the events unfolding in our times.
Because that is alarming as well, that we can agree immediately.

Second Son
5th February 2011, 03:56
I read an earlier post about the Ukrainian mass murders being blamed on the Germans. I think further study will reveal that it was the Russians. Also I watched a video where 3 or four guys stepped into a room the size of a phone booth (maybe a little bigger) and activated a canister of zyklon-b. It proved without question that the official story is a hoax. Of course these men had already talked to an expert on chemical insecticides... a log time owner of an extermination company, who knew that without a LOOOONG time to activate in combination with high heat the chemical would have no effect.

A pogrom of genocide targeted at jews is a complete fabrication designed to gain the Zionists a state in Israel... and it worked well! This needs to be said while it is still legal (though perhaps anathema) to talk about it here in the good old US of A.

Peace out.

Lord Sidious
5th February 2011, 15:05
I read an earlier post about the Ukrainian mass murders being blamed on the Germans. I think further study will reveal that it was the Russians. Also I watched a video where 3 or four guys stepped into a room the size of a phone booth (maybe a little bigger) and activated a canister of zyklon-b. It proved without question that the official story is a hoax. Of course these men had already talked to an expert on chemical insecticides... a log time owner of an extermination company, who knew that without a LOOOONG time to activate in combination with high heat the chemical would have no effect.

A pogrom of genocide targeted at jews is a complete fabrication designed to gain the Zionists a state in Israel... and it worked well! This needs to be said while it is still legal (though perhaps anathema) to talk about it here in the good old US of A.

Peace out.

One of the mass murders in the Ukraine you speak of is the one at Vinnitsa. I have seen photos of the corpses after they were exhumed for analysis by the Germans. The caption reads along the lines of ''The jews of Vinnitsa after the arrival of the Germans and their massacre.''
There are many pics like that, of genuine events with fake captions.

The genocide story isn't only about isreal, it is far bigger than that.
There is a prophecy that says the messiah will not come until 6 million jews fail to answer a roll call. My paraphrasing.
I am looking for an online source for this because, as you can see, this blows the roof off the whole thing.

peter67
5th February 2011, 16:17
I truly believe that this is another part of our awakening as we start peeling back the veil and seeing how the control of our minds has been carried out by the unseen magicians. Lets face it. If they can control the most powerfull weapon known as television and dumb us down enough we will believe anything..However we are now at the point of shifting our awareness to the heart and people are waking up in large numbers now. Our false history that is presented to us through education and so called official accounts are some what flawed when looked at more closely. We live in a world of lies and greed and lust for power. Thats what we have been sold since birth. to be subservient to all people in charge and those who know best and not ask awkward questions that make them feel uncomfortable. Thats when you know your onto something and the truth shines out..
thankyou.

Fred259
5th February 2011, 16:47
I truly believe that this is another part of our awakening as we start peeling back the veil and seeing how the control of our minds has been carried out by the unseen magicians. Lets face it. If they can control the most powerfull weapon known as television and dumb us down enough we will believe anything..However we are now at the point of shifting our awareness to the heart and people are waking up in large numbers now. Our false history that is presented to us through education and so called official accounts are some what flawed when looked at more closely. We live in a world of lies and greed and lust for power. Thats what we have been sold since birth. to be subservient to all people in charge and those who know best and not ask awkward questions that make them feel uncomfortable. Thats when you know your onto something and the truth shines out..
thankyou.

A Sensible post from a fellow Celt..

The thread is coming along slowly, its not about Jews, it’s all about control and who is behind the control…that’s what she typed up “ A Look behind the Holocaust Propaganda” Who is behind all this?

Lord Sidious
5th February 2011, 16:54
I truly believe that this is another part of our awakening as we start peeling back the veil and seeing how the control of our minds has been carried out by the unseen magicians. Lets face it. If they can control the most powerfull weapon known as television and dumb us down enough we will believe anything..However we are now at the point of shifting our awareness to the heart and people are waking up in large numbers now. Our false history that is presented to us through education and so called official accounts are some what flawed when looked at more closely. We live in a world of lies and greed and lust for power. Thats what we have been sold since birth. to be subservient to all people in charge and those who know best and not ask awkward questions that make them feel uncomfortable. Thats when you know your onto something and the truth shines out..
thankyou.

A Sensible post from a fellow Celt..

The thread is coming along slowly, its not about Jews, it’s all about control and who is behind the control…that’s what she typed up “ A Look behind the Holocaust Propaganda” Who is behind all this?

I can only speak for myself, but for me, yes, it is about the jews and no, it's not about the jews.
In the world of duality we exist in, there are two sides to everything as we know.
For me, I am out to break this paradigm of guilt, hate, horror and all the other negative crap associated to it.
I had a very valued member make a point to me, this is about healing and some will react to it in a negative manner.
I didn't think of that, but he is right and we have seen that already.
So at the same time that it is about jews and releasing them from their mental shackles of anti-semitism and welcoming them into the water, it is about freeing the rest of us too.

Fred259
5th February 2011, 17:01
I can only speak for myself, but for me, yes, it is about the jews and no, it's not about the jews.
In the world of duality we exist in, there are two sides to everything as we know.
For me, I am out to break this paradigm of guilt, hate, horror and all the other negative crap associated to it.
I had a very valued member make a point to me, this is about healing and some will react to it in a negative manner.
I didn't think of that, but he is right and we have seen that already.
So at the same time that it is about jews and releasing them from their mental shackles of anti-semitism and welcoming them into the water, it is about freeing the rest of us too.

1.
So at the same time that it is about jews and releasing them from their mental shackles of anti-semitism and welcoming them into the water, it is about freeing the rest of us too.


Lord Sidious; who is it that has the Jews mentally shackled?

Lord Sidious
5th February 2011, 17:28
I can only speak for myself, but for me, yes, it is about the jews and no, it's not about the jews.
In the world of duality we exist in, there are two sides to everything as we know.
For me, I am out to break this paradigm of guilt, hate, horror and all the other negative crap associated to it.
I had a very valued member make a point to me, this is about healing and some will react to it in a negative manner.
I didn't think of that, but he is right and we have seen that already.
So at the same time that it is about jews and releasing them from their mental shackles of anti-semitism and welcoming them into the water, it is about freeing the rest of us too.

1.
So at the same time that it is about jews and releasing them from their mental shackles of anti-semitism and welcoming them into the water, it is about freeing the rest of us too.


Lord Sidious; who is it that has the Jews mentally shackled?

You know when people are angy at some event and blame ''the jews?''
More often that not, that is the ones.
The jewish elites care nothing about the ''little jew'' and have been shown to sacrifice how ever many they needed to so that they could advance their agenda/s.
They control their flocks by telling/teaching them all sorts of things along the lines of'
''Don't trust the goyim, they all want to kill you'', ''We are superior to the goyim'' and all types of stuff.
Mainly to keep them seperate and obviously seperate to the rest of us.
Have a look around the net for info regarding rabbis and the drive to stop intermarriage.
You will find a lot of the mind control used in those types of areas.

RedeZra
6th February 2011, 11:28
the official picture of WWII is made up of much propaganda pieces with the foremost purpose to make the Allies look good and the Axis evil

Considering the track record of Western governments to officialy acknowledge fiction and to silence supress and deny facts then it is high time for a revision into the events and documents of WWII


take the Katyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre)massacre for example where about 20 000 Polish people - millitar officers, doctors, professors, lawmakers, police officers, landowners, factory owners, lawyers, officials, priests - were executed in the spring of 1940


Germany already announced the discovery of mass graves in the Katyn Forest in 1943 which led to the end of diplomatic relations between Moscow and the London-based Polish government-in-exile

the Soviet Union continued to blame Germany for the massacres until 1990 when Mikhail Gorbachev admitted that the NKVD (Soviet secret police) had indeed executed the Poles and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_(village))- Mednoye and Piatykhatky

Because of incessant efforts from the Polish Institute of National Remembrance to get Russia to hand over official Soviet records about the Katyn massacre then the factual documented piece of Katyn is one of Stalin Soviet atrocity

In November 2010 the Russian State Duma approved a declaration blaming Stalin (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11845315) and other Soviet officials for having personally ordered the Katyn massacre


In light of this there might be no wonder why Hitler invaded Soviet in the summer of 1941 even though the two countries had a bilateral treaty of non-aggression trade and cooperation fighting Polish resistance

Stalin's methods of sovietization by executing the intelligencia of Poland is most likely the reason why Hitler decided to invade Soviet

Lord Sidious
6th February 2011, 13:00
the official picture of WWII is made up of much propaganda pieces with the foremost purpose to make the Allies look good and the Axis evil

The thing about the second world war that differs from the first is that the propoganda of the first was openly acknowledged as being such, but not the second.


Considering the track record of Western governments to officialy acknowledge fiction and to silence supress and deny facts then it is high time for a revision into the events and documents of WWII


take the Katyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre)massacre for example where about 20 000 Polish people - millitar officers, doctors, professors, lawmakers, police officers, landowners, factory owners, lawyers, officials, priests - were executed in the spring of 1940


Germany already announced the discovery of mass graves in the Katyn Forest in 1943 which led to the end of diplomatic relations between Moscow and the London-based Polish government-in-exile

After this mass murder had been discovered, the Germans asked for help from neutral nations to send in forensic examiners. After autopsies had been done, it was determined that the soviets had done it, not the Germans.
For one thing, the bodies were dressed in winter gear and Unternehmen Barbarossa, the invasion of the soviet union was in summer.


the Soviet Union continued to blame Germany for the massacres until 1990 when Mikhail Gorbachev admitted that the NKVD (Soviet secret police) had indeed executed the Poles and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_(village))- Mednoye and Piatykhatky

Because of incessant efforts from the Polish Institute of National Remembrance to get Russia to hand over official Soviet records about the Katyn massacre then the factual documented piece of Katyn is one of Stalin Soviet atrocity

In November 2010 the Russian State Duma approved a declaration blaming Stalin (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11845315) and other Soviet officials for having personally ordered the Katyn massacre

At the trials conducted after the war in Nurnberg, the soviets still attempted to have this put on the indictments against the Germans, but the intervention of British and American prosecutors convinced them to remove them.


In light of this there might be no wonder why Hitler invaded Soviet in the summer of 1941 even though the two countries had a bilateral treaty of non-aggression trade and cooperation fighting Polish resistance

Stalin's methods of sovietization by executing the intelligencia of Poland is most likely the reason why Hitler decided to invade Soviet

I don't recall this being a reason, as it wasn't known of before about 1942 or 3, but there were other pressing reasons.

I won't give a link, I will let you guys google this one for yourselves.
Google this Icebreaker + Suvorov
That may surprise you, but this is THE reason for the invasion.

On another note, this is an interesting article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/world/middleeast/06tuviah.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&ref=obituaries&adxnnlx=1296990144-/mXl7i94zLDsB+/4Wl1lbg
In it, there are several interesting points.

''Tuviah Samuel Friedman was born on Jan. 23, 1922, in Radom, where his father owned a printing business. After escaping from the labor camp through sewers, he joined the semiofficial Polish militia in 1944.''
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, many of the partisans on the eastern front were jews.

''In Vienna he joined a secret Jewish group that was helping Israel come into being even as it strove to avenge the past. In 1946, his superior, Arthur Pier, who later changed his name to Asher Ben Natan and held posts in the Israeli government, instructed him on his top priority.''
So they say they were planning this even before the whole thing was over.
Even more interesting is the name thing.
Many european jews changed their names either before they went to Palestine or after arrival. Usually, they chose sephardic names. Whether this is to ''legitimise'' israel or not, I don't know.
The thing is, many people have claimed that people are lost, possibly dead as they can't find a trace of them after 1945. This is one reason why.