View Full Version : Communication Deterioration (What gets lost in translation)
Adaiahsshadow
19th February 2011, 18:39
Fist off if this topic is in another thread please move.
I've recently been looking into the conept of lost in translation. I myself am familiar with a few different languages and know that some things just cannot be translated properly to encompass the full meaning from one language to the next.
Now with all the languages in existence in this day in age, how much has been lost over the ages due to new languages being born? For example if you ask a group of people what love really means you will come up with 100 different definitions and if those people come from different backgrounds, languages, dialects, etc. it will be compounded exponentially.
So with all that in mind is it possible that a lot of what was shared and common knowledge in history has been misinterpeted due to the simple fact of languages changing? For example the word love could have been completely understood by the first inhabitants of this planet commonly with all being of the same opinion on the topic. Yet as languages evolved we've lost that meaning. I'd like to hear all your thoughts on the topic and anything you think may have been lost through the changes of languages.
DeDukshyn
19th February 2011, 18:48
First, excellent topic.
Language in my opinion is mind restricting mechanism. So when you move concepts from one restricting mechanism to another, you will never really get less restrictions of expression, only more. This applies to both translations and in a single langusge over time. English has 600,000 words. The most any individual uses is about 70,000 if you are decently eductated. Yet how many times in my life have I wished there were words for things that are ineffable? Perhaps there have been some of these words, maybe many, but I no longer have access to those words and even if I did no one would understand me anyway. My mind is full of things I cannot speak of, only because there are no words to describe. I use al lot of metaphors but I doubt I am able to clearly convey these thought most of the time.
If you have children or the luxury of being able to watch them develop, you'll see a shift in expression once they begin to use language. Their minds start to become more restrictive to the words they try to form to express themselves. And thus this continues until the mind is only able to express that which can be put into words. I'm not a big fan of language in general and as a young child I dreamed of a world where humans could "feel" every other human and no one could lie because no one needed to use words.
Adaiahsshadow
19th February 2011, 18:50
First, excellent topic.
Language in my opinion is mind restricting mechanism. So when you move concepts from one restricting mechanism to another, you will never really get less restrictions of expression, only more. This applies to both translations and in a single langusge over time. English has 600,000 words. The most any individual uses is about 70,000 if you are decently eductated. Yet how many times in my life have I wished there were words for things that are ineffable? Perhaps there have been some of these words, maybe many, but I no longer have access to those words and even if I did no one would understand me anyway. My mind is full of things I cannot speak of, only because there are no words to describe. I use al lot of metaphors but I doubt I am able to clearly convey these thought most of the time.
If you have children or the luxury of being able to watch them develop, you'll see a shift in expression once they begin to use language. Their minds start to become more restrictive to the words they try to for to express themselves. And thus this continues until the mind is only able to express that which can be put into words. I'm not a big fan of language in general and as a young child I dreamed of a world where humans could "feel" every other human and no one could lie because no one needed to use words.
Very insightful, thank you for this.
DeDukshyn
19th February 2011, 18:58
... For example if you ask a group of people what love really means you will come up with 100 different definitions ....
This is exactly why language is hugely inefficient. When love can be percieved in so many ways, literally hundreds representing many levels of perception, why is there only ONE WORD to try to encompass that? It is a big issue for me, and call me a cospiracy theorist, but I think there has been some planning involved in the overall reduction of language words of the last 1000 years or so. The result would be resticted thinking for all those who do language based thinking (almost all). The Inuit have seven (or more) different words for "SNOW" because one is not enough, because snow can have a whole range of states and ways of being percieved. This makes sense.
vibrations
19th February 2011, 19:01
I am daily talking in four languages and you know what, there is something happening in my (empty) head. There are some expressions, some concepts which are more real in one language than other. It is maybe because I relate the origin of the emotional connection with this concept with something I heard for example in English or maybe not. But I can assure you there are years from the moment when something is just as it has to be in the language and doesn’t fit in other. I'm not referring on a written stuff, I mean conversation, communication in general. About translations I just can say one thing - disaster. MHO
Alien Ramone
19th February 2011, 19:09
I'm guessing that is generally understood in the study of linguistics, history, archaeology etc. I think in religion there has sort of been an indoctrination, thus many don't seem to question the accuracy of the translated words in the texts of the religion they follow.
In the area of archaeology, I know that some of Sitchins' translations have been questioned. Also I have read that some Bible stories are very similar to some of the Sumerian stories. For example, the Sumerian stories have Adamu and Edin in place of Adam and the Garden of Eden. Since those have both been adjusted to English spellings, one would need to study the languages and pronunciations of the time to more fully understand the connections and possiblities.
Adaiahsshadow
19th February 2011, 19:16
I'm guessing that is generally understood in the study of linguistics, history, archaeology etc. I think in religion there has sort of been an indoctrination, thus many don't seem to question the accuracy of the translated words in the texts of the religion they follow.
In the area of archaeology, I know that some of Sitchins' translations have been questioned. Also I have read that some Bible stories are very similar to some of the Sumerian stories. For example, the Sumerian stories have Adamu and Edin in place of Adam and the Garden of Eden. Since those have both been adjusted to English spellings, one would need to study the languages and pronunciations of the time to more fully understand the connections and possiblities.
I'm glad you brought that up, because in my very early years I was raised with orthodox christian beliefs. One of the things that we did that isn't as common now is look up the earlier words and phrases used in the text. For example, when Jesus was crucified the modern bible says the last thing he said was "My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me." When the translation from modern hebrew is "Father, Father, for this I was spared." Which is a completely different translation. It differs even more if you use ancient hebrew, etc.
vibrations
19th February 2011, 20:10
And we don't have to forget that all this writings were transcripted and reinterpreted hundreds of times, the monasteries where for example monarchs were copying this texts were under this or that branch of the church and off course their "truth" was better than any other, so imagine how we all are convinced of knowing what we know despite all the flexibility we gain over the centuries, and how several hundreds years ago people just see a glimpse of "reality" compared with today. And then, there are so many other influences like geographical and political beliefs and customs, so it is perfectly clear that what we read today is just a shadow of what was originally written.
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