devil's advocate

[Borden]

My discernment alarm is highly tuned. 'Fakedar' if you will. This Charles material was interesting to begin with, but having briefly skimmed some of his posts here as Atticus, the bells are ringing.

Don't be offended.

I am not stating that I definitely think he's a fake or a flake. But I think it's best to be aware that he seems to represent an argument or paradigm that we are all looking for. I can't see how a faker would benefit financially from what he's doing, but there may of course be a book in the offing.

As a London boy myself I feel a certain longing for him to be genuine, but I also see certain traits of psychopathology that tend toward the Narcissistic. It could be that he has nothing to gain financially, but something to gain by all the attention. And there is definitely attention.

I have known real villains, and he is not one. From the back of his head I can tell you this. I'm no phrenologist, but the back of his head screams Narcissist. Not hard man.

I could be wrong. I'm interested in and open to discussion on this.

[Ahkenaten]

Spin spin spin the wheel of controversy - what purpose could this kind of "discussion" possibly serve other than destructively pitting people against one another. I say to you what is your motive in a post like this? This is not good.

[Borden]

How can alertness be "not good"?

I am not stating he is a fraud - I am simply positing the idea in a forum where unfortunately credulity seems rife. I have no argument with you. I have no desire to pit people against each other. I merely wish our discernment levels well. I am fascinated by his assertions, and openly admit that I want him to be on the up and up. Doesn't mean he is. Doesn't mean he isn't either. If constructive debate isn't your bag then maybe you should check your credulity tank and have a word.

[firstlook]

be specific about the information and not the person.

[Ahkenaten]

How can alertness be "not good"?

I am not stating he is a fraud - I am simply positing the idea in a forum where unfortunately credulity seems rife. I have no argument with you. I have no desire to pit people against each other. I merely wish our discernment levels well. I am fascinated by his assertions, and openly admit that I want him to be on the up and up. Doesn't mean he is. Doesn't mean he isn't either. If constructive debate isn't your bag then maybe you should check your credulity tank and have a word.

You seem a little hostile mate - maybe you should check your motives for posting.

[Borden]

You need to read the paragraph again, "mate". Check where I said, "I have no argument with you", or "I have no desire to pit people against each other". Maybe you should check your motives for replying.

[crosby]

Spin spin spin the wheel of controversy - what purpose could this kind of "discussion" possibly serve other than destructively pitting people against one another. I say to you what is your motive in a post like this? This is not good.

playing the devil's advocate isn't necessarily a bad thing. perhaps Borden just needs more clarity on the charles/atticus issues than what has been referred to in other threads. it's quite possible that the info on the other threads leaves many questions still unanswered. he does have the right to post a new thread without taking a poll too see if everyone agrees with him regarding the topic.
regards, corson

[Borden]

Thank you, Corson, you're the kind of person I was hoping to debate with. Reasonable. And that's a very cute dog.

[greybeard]

Open mined is good,
As yet I have not seen any answer to a spiritual question coming from Charles.
It would be easy surely to say I have a belief in a Power Greater than my self, a power of Divinity, of good.
I know some people have great reluctance to use the word God but there are other ways of expressing the same thing.
I am uncomfortable that Charles has not done so.
There has been every opportunity to do so.
However I am really pleased that so many really want to do something specific positive and good.

Chris

[Lee-B]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

[Borden]

Thanks, Chris,

I think that 'God', like 'love' has become a dirty word. Misused and trashed by popular culture until it has no real meaning. You and I may derive meaning from those words, but what good is that if it is no longer valid language?

But isn't Charles admitting that he's been a naughty boy? Perhaps we shouldn't expect him to be too spiritual.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

You are so right! From the back of Charles head, we can all tell he is a pussy cat, a real sweetie. It is my belief that he could have been spared all this insider pain and agony if his Mum had been rich enough to keep him instead of him being thrown to the wolves. The absolute agony he has gone through to get where he is now, wow, I need a nap to even contemplate this perspective.

You know, Charles, has an insider's view and it is so very interesting but not lovely or happy in any way. One thing, he should know as well as his Master is that a way forward into the light is always available. I bid that he consider it. There are the vibrations of unconditional love, any can play these frequencies, and come along to the big party when Heaven is restored to Earth. It's taking place now and all are invited whether you played dark hats or white, red, yellow, or blue. None will be left behind ~ if it is the desire of their hearts to return to higher celestial realms. I will start you out with the love vibration, one that opens stargates, so please spend a little time and look up more on YouTube by searching 528 hz ~ it is so much more happy to go with this vibe. Then to stew and be ill in darkness. Charles never got to enjoy the greed of his Master or benefit in any real way to all he has seen and been surrounded by all these long years. Much light and love lies ahead if it's the desire of your heart. We are each the judges of ourselves, no one else does this for us. This is the really scary part ; ) Just teasing, I think. Here is the 528 hz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZrBRQn6K0A and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuG2ILHKj6A&feature=related

Now if these are not comfortable to your ear ~ don't be discouraged. Run another search under just "hz" and all the tones will come up and you can start lower, each has the miracle of blessings, no matter what frequencies all have great value. Since 528 hz throws you into DNA repair, you need to drink lots of water as your body will begin to cleanse itself and get rid of diseases. There is no disease so serious it can't be repaired, none, nada, so go for it. Please understand that we have all been mucking about playing dark and light roles endlessly, over and over, changing parts again and so forth for 13 million years in time! Geez. Of course, there is a way to redeem ourselves and it's as easy as these frequencies ~ so get going! Oh, gosh, once a mother, always a mother. Forgive me but I can't seem to stop myself. None of my own kids pay attention or obey a word I speak, so I'm not heavily invested if you want to disregard everything I say here. It's okay, too. Just when I think I've conquered patience, I spurt out, GET GOING! xoxox


This one is for no reason at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK2rrvFQL98

[Borden]

Thanks, LeeSW1, I agree completely about the blind faith thing. Without debate we are flakes. I could post here that I am the reincarnation of the great cheese sandwich who will guide us all to better spices and fillings, but if I saw a list of replies saying, 'Yay, man, I knew you were coming,' I would weep into my condiments.

[crosby]

Thank you, Corson, you're the kind of person I was hoping to debate with. Reasonable. And that's a very cute dog.

i must be honest, i didn't join the forum for the charles/atticus material. in fact, i find it difficult to get through all the pages of posts. however, i am interested in learning what it's all about and reading the arguments that may accompany it. i've watched the bill/charles interview, but that was a while ago. perhaps i should watch it again. then i could play a little bit of devil's advocate with you......and thank you for the puppy comment. she's a great girl. cookies.......she's gotten bigger since this photo and has lost the blue halo around her eyes, but she's still my girl.
warmest regards, corson

oh great cheese sandwich............lmbo

[Ahkenaten]

I just wonder Borden if you feel so strongly about playing the Devil's Advocate role and you are so darned morally concerned here - why did you wait so long to jump in with a post like this? The timing seems a bit suspect, especially as the Charles crew gains momentum and a life of its own. Could it be that you, under the guise of a position of conscience, are merely playing the old stir the pot, pit them against one another game for the purpose of harming this Forum? Just askin'.

[Borden]

I would just like to add that while I am not a hard man per se, I have done some pretty 'hard' things, and been pretty horrible in my time. From the back of Charles's head I would happily say that I would be more than willing to discuss the veracity of his claims face to face. Having perused a bit more, I lean strongly towards the flagrant liar hypothesis. I love Bill, and I hope I'm wrong.

[firstlook]

So I'm guessing this thread is about Narcissistic Tendencies/ Psychological memes?

Ill wait for the OP to decide if that is the case.

:)

[crosby]

I just wonder Borden if you feel so strongly about playing the Devil's Advocate role and you are so darned morally concerned here - why did you wait so long to jump in with a post like this? The timing seems a bit suspect, especially as the Charles crew gains momentum and a life of its own. Could it be that you, under the guise of a position of conscience, are merely playing the old stir the pot, pit them against one another game for the purpose of harming this Forum? Just askin'.

and the debate begins.........back to you great cheese sandwich
corson

[Borden]

Ahkenaten, there is nothing suspect here. I'm interested, that's all. You seem to have taken a stance to my post, and you're welcome to it, but if you're a Charles devotee, then surely you would welcome the opportunity to debate with me about the veracity of his claims. Yes?

[Borden]

It doesn't matter how angry I may get, Corson, that puppy takes it right out of me. Lesson there somewhere, for me, I suspect.

[Lee-B]

Hey Borden, I laughed at that a bit more than I should :)
So you're here to spice things up, without resorting to being cheesy. Mind you don't get yourself in a pickle. I'm glad you're here. Don't eat too much cheese, it can give you nightmares!

[ponda]

Yeah i agree with greybeard.

There's been little or nothing spiritual about the charles saga so far IMHO.The thinking is all old paradigm left brain survival type with no talk of conscious awakening or positive ascension etc.

But that being said if people want to follow charles and form a group etc then i wish them the best of luck.

Personally i'm not worried about the coming Earth changes.IMHO i think that everyone will be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing what ever that maybe.Everyone has their own path and good luck to all of them.I'm looking forward to what ever is coming our way and i believe it is getting closer by the day.

cheers

[Flash]

My discernment alarm is highly tuned. 'Fakedar' if you will. This Charles material was interesting to begin with, but having briefly skimmed some of his posts here as Atticus, the bells are ringing.

As a London boy myself I feel a certain longing for him to be genuine, but I also see certain traits of psychopathology that tend toward the Narcissistic. It could be that he has nothing to gain financially, but something to gain by all the attention. And there is definitely attention.

I have known real villains, and he is not one. From the back of his head I can tell you this. I'm no phrenologist, but the back of his head screams Narcissist. Not hard man.

I could be wrong. I'm interested in and open to discussion on this.

I am interested to know precisely how you came to the conclusion narcissism by looking to the back of his head. Precision on the technique or the things you noticed (looks like phrenology at first glance even if you say it is not, then what is it, how did you deduce that?)

[crosby]

Open mined is good,
As yet I have not seen any answer to a spiritual question coming from Charles.
It would be easy surely to say I have a belief in a Power Greater than my self, a power of Divinity, of good.
I know some people have great reluctance to use the word God but there are other ways of expressing the same thing.
I am uncomfortable that Charles has not done so.
There has been every opportunity to do so.
However I am really pleased that so many really want to do something specific positive and good.

Chris

this very post is a great debatable issue. thank you Greybeard.
warmest regards, corson

[Ahkenaten]

I am not a Charles devotee - I am suspicious when spurious subjects/posts clog the threads. There already have been ample opportunities to discuss every nuance of this subject elsewhere. Why a new thread? Why NOW?

[Flash]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???

[jorr lundstrom]

I find the pattern very interesting. LOL

[Ahkenaten]

Hey Borden, I laughed at that a bit more than I should :)
So you're here to spice things up, without resorting to being cheesy. Mind you don't get yourself in a pickle. I'm glad you're here. Don't eat too much cheese, it can give you nightmares!

Usually eating too much cheese just gets one constipated.

[crosby]

Hey Borden, I laughed at that a bit more than I should :)
So you're here to spice things up, without resorting to being cheesy. Mind you don't get yourself in a pickle. I'm glad you're here. Don't eat too much cheese, it can give you nightmares!

hahhahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahha.
regards, corson

[Ahkenaten]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???

yeah we should ask Chicodoodoo if we could merge the threads

[Flash]

It doesn't matter how angry I may get, Corson, that puppy takes it right out of me. Lesson there somewhere, for me, I suspect.

Corson,
Keep that puppie as avatar, nobody will ever be able to be harsh with you, ever,
Love

[Borden]

I reckon that's a big no from Ahkenaten. The precious cannot be questioned. Insert best Smeagol voice here. I do a really good one. Method actor. You cannot know your opponent until you have been him.

If we sit here taking it up the backside from every flake with a book to sell then we are letting the side down. Certain people need to bloody well grow up.

[greybeard]

Thanks, Chris,

I think that 'God', like 'love' has become a dirty word. Misused and trashed by popular culture until it has no real meaning. You and I may derive meaning from those words, but what good is that if it is no longer valid language?

But isn't Charles admitting that he's been a naughty boy? Perhaps we shouldn't expect him to be too spiritual.

Sorry but get real
Naughty boy does not come close. He has been working for those that were planing to cull billions.
Im not going into what the 33 did or did not do but!!! think.
Only very recently has he got a new master, who is the oldest man and sheds his skin bit like a snake and was a beggar in India, he is doing this under orders,
The story is like a bad Indiana Jones film. Imprisoned in Africa, a phone call from Bill helps to release him, he spends time in the water of Portugal waiting a boat,his hands smashed and broken, he has millions, lost millions, he spent money keeping us safe, he is dying from cancer inflicted by a machine there is a machine on this web site he has a secretary here who ha been with him for ten years, she obviously worked on the dark side to, he has twin African minders, the list goes on, You say he has been a bad boy. Well Think. It is some story and it pushes the bounds of reality somewhat
I would love to be proved wrong in being cautious.
So many people with great ideas and high hopes they may change him he may be changing but naughty boy, ha Ha

C

[crosby]

It doesn't matter how angry I may get, Corson, that puppy takes it right out of me. Lesson there somewhere, for me, I suspect.

Corson,
Keep that puppie as avatar, nobody will ever be able to be harsh with you, ever,
Love

she helps maintain equilibrium with the heart and mind. that's why she came too me.
regards, corson

[jorr lundstrom]

I am not a Charles devotee - I am suspicious when spurious subjects/posts clog the threads. There already have been ample opportunities to discuss every nuance of this subject elsewhere. Why a new thread? Why NOW?

This game is started the same time everyday. First someone says something provoking or totally without structure. Then comes one or two

others in often the same every night. Supporting without any real arguments. Ahkenaten, dont jump in. Let them unfold. LOL

[crosby]

I am not a Charles devotee - I am suspicious when spurious subjects/posts clog the threads. There already have been ample opportunities to discuss every nuance of this subject elsewhere. Why a new thread? Why NOW?

This game is started the same time everyday. First someone says something provoking or totally without structure. Then comes one or two

others in often the same every night. Supporting without any real arguments. Ahkenaten, dont jump in. Let them unfold. LOL

examples???????
corson

it's comments like this that fill all of the other threads and make it unbearable for anyone to read through them. great provacatuers.......keep going Borden, it's your thread. you have the right to post.

[ponda]

Thanks, Chris,

I think that 'God', like 'love' has become a dirty word. Misused and trashed by popular culture until it has no real meaning. You and I may derive meaning from those words, but what good is that if it is no longer valid language?

But isn't Charles admitting that he's been a naughty boy? Perhaps we shouldn't expect him to be too spiritual.

Sorry but get real
Naughty boy does not come close. He has been working for those that were planing to cull billions.
Im not going into what the 33 did or did not do but!!! think.
Only very recently has he got a new master, who is the oldest man and sheds his skin bit like a snake and was a beggar in India, he is doing this under orders,
The story is like a bad Indiana Jones film. Imprisoned in Africa, a phone call from Bill helps to release him, he spends time in the water of Portugal waiting a boat,his hands smashed and broken, he has millions, lost millions, he spent money keeping us safe, he is dying from cancer inflicted by a machine there is a machine on this web site he has a secretary here who ha been with him for ten years, she obviously worked on the dark side to, he has twin African minders, the list goes on, You say he has been a bad boy. Well Think. It is some story and it pushes the bounds of reality somewhat
I would love to be proved wrong in being cautious.
So many people with great ideas and high hopes they may change him he may be changing but naughty boy, ha Ha

C

LOL yeah and not to mention the 5000 year old guy.

IMHO we don't need to run to anyone as we already have all we will ever need inside of us

cheers

[trenairio]

I believe Charles is more likely to be telling the truth. I mean Bill utilized his discernment on Charles for six months. Plus Bill practiced his critic on a wide load of whistleblowers beforehand.

[Ahkenaten]

I reckon that's a big no from Ahkenaten. The precious cannot be questioned. Insert best Smeagol voice here. I do a really good one. Method actor. You cannot know your opponent until you have been him.

If we sit here taking it up the backside from every flake with a book to sell then we are letting the side down. Certain people need to bloody well grow up.

Borden you seem quite linguistically skilled at a certain level that is. But you should really cut out the games. If you are really interested in debating the validity and veracity of Charles and his information I suggest that you do what a stand-up soldier of integrity would do (assuming his Commander agreed) and take these issues directly to Charles himself. I am sure with your skills of discernment you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak, as he answers your questions directly.

[Borden]

Chris, with respect, please don't tell me to think.

It is the name of my game.

I have outhunk you, clearly.

Regards.

[aikya]

Hi Borden, My reading of Ahkenaten's post is that he didn't say or imply that the precious cannot be questioned.

You've assumed he is a Charles supporter - assumptions aren't always right.

Personally, I don't have a problem with you starting this thread. But you seem to be under the impression that until now no-one has questioned Charles or the Charles material.

If so, I can assure you that's a wrong impression. If I have misunderstood, that's my mistake.

[Ahkenaten]

I am not a Charles devotee - I am suspicious when spurious subjects/posts clog the threads. There already have been ample opportunities to discuss every nuance of this subject elsewhere. Why a new thread? Why NOW?

This game is started the same time everyday. First someone says something provoking or totally without structure. Then comes one or two

others in often the same every night. Supporting without any real arguments. Ahkenaten, dont jump in. Let them unfold. LOL

You are right Jor I should not permit myself to be baited - I am just sick of these people whose only purpose in coming here, apparently, is to disrupt and pit people against one another. And there are a lot of them. Want me to name them? I have a list. They are ruining this Forum and driving everyone of value who is respected here and have made real contributions to their fellow human beings, away. Someone needs to begin to hold these people to account.

[Borden]

Okay, Ahkenaten, tell me how to speak to him directly. I will happily do so in front of everybody. Right here. Can you make that happen?

[Ahkenaten]

Chris, with respect, please don't tell me to think.

It is the name of my game.

I have outhunk you, clearly.

Regards.

I seriously doubt that. How foolish you are to say something like that.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Okay, Ahkenaten, tell me how to speak to him directly. I will happily do so in front of everybody. Right here. Can you make that happen?

Why you can talk to him on his many threads as others do, or enter the chat room when he is there discussing his issues with others like so many have done. I notice he is pretty prompt talking to people, and you can do this on your own, you are a big boy.

[greybeard]

Chris, with respect, please don't tell me to think.

It is the name of my game.

I have outhunk you, clearly.

Regards.

Well neither of us can spell Laughing but we are being read by thousands of people so I think that saying that Charles was naughty is a bit of an understatement and perhaps if thought, which you are well capable of, had been applied then you, would perhaps have used another word.

im not going to argue with you, pointless, but you know what I mean regarding Charles
Regards Chris

[Borden]

Your doubts are not my problem, Ahkenaten. Can you provide me with a way to speak to Charles?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Okay, well maybe this is a computer newbie thing ... but the chat room isems to be a no go. Anyone else have this problem?

[Sarlic]

Chatroom is down for me aswell Borden.
Maybe a pm might do instead.

My mistake chatroom is working fine just took a while to kick in

[Borden]

Chris, you are clearly too nice a man to argue with me. I certainly have no desire to argue with you. I'll debate with you, sure, but not argue. I was glib, I apologise.

[Ahkenaten]

Your doubts are not my problem, Ahkenaten. Can you provide me with a way to speak to Charles?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Okay, well maybe this is a computer newbie thing ... but the chat room isems to be a no go. Anyone else have this problem?

I have no inside conduit to Charles at all. You are, as are others, on their own when it comes to engaging with Charles. For technical issues accessing the Chat Room you just need to PM one of the Mods who will be pleased to assist you.

[Borden]

I couldn't PM Charles, I wouldn't dare! I am not of the anointed. I would love to, but I suspect he is of rock star status on here now.

[Ahkenaten]

As for me, Borden, I am NOT so nice. I think you should sit awhile with yourself and ponder your motives for what you are doing and mind well that what you are saying here is NOT ONLY being read by thousands of people - but more importantly, it forms part of your personal history, and remember that MAAT will weigh your heart with a feather one day, and you do not want to come up on the wrong end of that scale.

[Mike]

i think the 'bad indiana jones movie' comparison definitely holds some merit. i find myself in that camp too, at times. but then i think: is the Charles info that much more outrageous than David Icke's? Benjamin Fulford's? Bob Dean's? i think every interview on avalon requires a suspension of what we normally think of as logic and/or the reality that most of us are used to.

frankly, i don't know what the hell to think. and i don't see how anyone can really argue passionately for or against Charles. all we have so far are words. my respect for Bill keeps me in the game when i start leaning too far towards the bad indiana jones movie feelings i get. as a result, i usually wind up firmly on the fence. and i'll remain there until i'm convinced one way or the other.

anyway, this thread is hardly controversial, so what's with the bizarre hostility??? it seems to have been started with good, honest intent. hardly rabblerousing, just sparking healthy debate.

[greybeard]

Well thats enough fun for the moment.
Seriously Beren is gone Tuza going others of a good spiritual standing and well respected in our community are going.
Quite a few gone already, people who have served this community well for years .
There has always been as steady growth through new members never a challenge then Jan 1st Mayhem.
You can tell a person by the fruits of their actions or non actions.
Enough said.
Goodnight may your God bless you
Chris

[Shane_Original]

Hello all,

Please keep this thread civil and be respectful of all members.. Please remember Atticus/Charles is a member here.

[Mod hat off] Some opinions do not require debate on this forum. Simply stating an opinion as a thread topic at times does little to benefit Avalon. Some opinions are just best kept to ourselves. There have been enough threads of people with a shared opinion also, perhaps post in one of those. The choice is your own of course. Regardless, be respectful even of those you disagree with.

With love and respect,
Shane

[Hiram]

Mod Hat On.....


Alot of tensions flowing at the moment guys. Lets take it easy. Sometimes more offense is taken than what was actually given.

Carmody put it best in another post: Astrologically: "we are being introduced to our earliest wounds today"

I can attest this is true for me--though i couldn't believe it. Anyone else???

[Ahkenaten]

Chinaski - Borden, if he were truly sincere about raising these issues, could have posted as others have on one of the many Charles threads that already are clogging up this forum - and he could have done it, if he felt as strongly as he says he does, a long time ago. I am suggesting that perhaps his true motive is to be divisive............to spin the wheel of karma, so to speak, using the energies of people on this thread. If that IS his motive, I am calling him on it. This sort of thing is driving the truly good people on this Forum away.................and it must stop. Someone must begin to call these people on their stuff. If the mods won't, and granted that would be asking too much of them - then I am more than willing to be the one to do it. If Borden's motives are pure, then he will not mind it one bit because guess what - this is being undertaken for the good of all the good people who are involved here, many of whom are poised to leave unless something changes around here.

[crosby]

i agree with you whole-heartedly. it's very presumptuous that some members feel free to blast others for no other reason than "they think they are right about everything". it did start as a healthy debate and there was no rabblerousing until it became personal. total b.s. i've watched this happen on many threads, again, one reason most people do not want to wade through the unintelligent pages of asinine posts. apparently only certain members can say what they like, when they like, and the rest of us, presumably, have to sit here and take it. total b.s. and if you're not such a nice person akhenaten, maybe you should do something about that. i find your post almost threatening. grow up.
corson

[Flash]

Thanks, Chris,

I think that 'God', like 'love' has become a dirty word. Misused and trashed by popular culture until it has no real meaning. You and I may derive meaning from those words, but what good is that if it is no longer valid language?

But isn't Charles admitting that he's been a naughty boy? Perhaps we shouldn't expect him to be too spiritual.

Sorry but get real
Naughty boy does not come close. He has been working for those that were planing to cull billions.
Im not going into what the 33 did or did not do but!!! think.
Only very recently has he got a new master, who is the oldest man and sheds his skin bit like a snake and was a beggar in India, he is doing this under orders,
The story is like a bad Indiana Jones film. Imprisoned in Africa, a phone call from Bill helps to release him, he spends time in the water of Portugal waiting a boat,his hands smashed and broken, he has millions, lost millions, he spent money keeping us safe, he is dying from cancer inflicted by a machine there is a machine on this web site he has a secretary here who ha been with him for ten years, she obviously worked on the dark side to, he has twin African minders, the list goes on, You say he has been a bad boy. Well Think. It is some story and it pushes the bounds of reality somewhat
I would love to be proved wrong in being cautious.
So many people with great ideas and high hopes they may change him he may be changing but naughty boy, ha Ha

C

Thank you very much for these words Greybeard, it seemed at first that all the oldies in the forum did not see it this way, and I was wondering what was going on. Some of us insisted to keep the sociopath thread active, we could have called it manipulator thread as well, to see if others would see the same thing as us. Can one change, maybe... But I could not bet on it for the moment As you say, he is under orders.

I also wonder if these people do not have some special powers (better than those shown by Charles on the forum) and how they could use it. Maybe we are not that important to them anyhow. But probing on us with special means has been done that is a sure thing.

I wish I would have achieve your level of awareness by now to be able to see through.

Thanks again for your comments

[Lee-B]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???

Not seen it, is it worth a butchers?

[Flash]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???

Not seen it, is it worth a butchers?

Indeed, quite a lot a great posts. Of course, some were mine (you see we can all be narcissists at times lol)

[Ahkenaten]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???


Not seen it, is it worth a butchers?

Here is the link - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13154-Are-sociopaths-human

[Lee-B]

Your doubts are not my problem, Ahkenaten. Can you provide me with a way to speak to Charles?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Okay, well maybe this is a computer newbie thing ... but the chat room isems to be a no go. Anyone else have this problem?

Have you tried this link? ********************

[Mike]

ahkenaten, with respect, it seems to me that you're being a bit sensitive. if all your accusing him of is creating a thread that should have belonged elsewhere, it seems you're being a little harsh. he is a relatively new member, which is why he's likely posting this now. i just don't see how your making the leap from 'misplaced thread' to divisive rabblerouser. perhaps he hasn't navigated all the charles stuff to realize some of this may be a retread.

not trying to argue with you here at all. just suggesting you could have been a biit more diplomatic here.

[Ahkenaten]

i agree with you whole-heartedly. it's very presumptuous that some members feel free to blast others for no other reason than "they think they are right about everything". it did start as a healthy debate and there was no rabblerousing until it became personal. total b.s. i've watched this happen on many threads, again, one reason most people do not want to wade through the unintelligent pages of asinine posts. apparently only certain members can say what they like, when they like, and the rest of us, presumably, have to sit here and take it. total b.s. and if you're not such a nice person akhenaten, maybe you should do something about that. i find your post almost threatening. grow up.
corson

Corson don't take my comments out of context. If I haven't grown up at this point by the way, it ain't gonna happen. I was respectful with what I said to Borden, I was reminding him of the moral consequences of his actions.

[Lee-B]

You know, I think this could quite possibly be one of the most important threads started here in the last few weeks. Hi Borden, and thanks for posting. The blind faith around here has become a little bit nauseating.

May be this thread and the one on sociopaths???

Not seen it, is it worth a butchers?

Here is the link - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13154-Are-sociopaths-human

Thanks, I'll give it a look.

[Ahkenaten]

ahkenaten, with respect, it seems to me that you're being a bit sensitive. if all your accusing him of is creating a thread that should have belonged elsewhere, it seems you're being a little harsh. he is a relatively new member, which is why he's likely posting this now. i just don't see how your making the leap from 'misplaced thread' to divisive rabblerouser. perhaps he hasn't navigated all the charles stuff to realize some of this may be a retread.

not trying to argue with you here at all. just suggesting you could have been a biit more diplomatic here.

I respect what you are saying Chinaski. Did you read what I said about disruptive activities in the Forum that are driving lots of good people away? I agree that Borden is a new member and I respect that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but honestly something needs to be done by all concerned PA members soon or the backbone members will all have left. I notice that you are relatively new..........perhaps you might take a look and see how many old members, people who have been here for a long time contributing much of their collective wisdom without thought for themselves, have left, and have stated that they are planning on leaving soon. You are right I could have been more diplomatic, but my patience wore out.

[Lee-B]

I have to say, unless you have hours and hours to spend on here, it's really hard to keep up with all the information being shared (and not just regarding Charles)
That's why I'm grateful when people point out threads I have missed, as long as I come away with some useful knowledge. Lets not assume every new poster comes with an agenda. How can we make progress? if there is constant bitch slapping and posturing which really puts obstacles in peoples paths. Those who want truth.

[meeradas]

The thinking is all old paradigm

Yup, that's it.
Thank you for putting it into words -
that's exactly what has kept me so far [pun?] from the 'Charles' stuff.

[Mike]

i certainly understand the frustration of the senior members. its unfortunate that many of them are leaving. its a frustrating time for everyone, and they are needed now more than ever. so i hope they change their mind and return. i suspect many of them will. i've always enjoyed their presence.

Ahkenaten, i can see that you are a senior member, and i respect that. i agree that something must be done about the senior members leaving. i just fear that if senior and junior mrmbers keep squabbling, EVERYONE will leave. won't do us any good.

anyhow, i appreciated your response.

best,
Mike

[Icecold]

I am not a Charles devotee - I am suspicious when spurious subjects/posts clog the threads. There already have been ample opportunities to discuss every nuance of this subject elsewhere. Why a new thread? Why NOW?

This game is started the same time everyday. First someone says something provoking or totally without structure. Then comes one or two

others in often the same every night. Supporting without any real arguments. Ahkenaten, dont jump in. Let them unfold. LOL

You are right Jor I should not permit myself to be baited - I am just sick of these people whose only purpose in coming here, apparently, is to disrupt and pit people against one another. And there are a lot of them. Want me to name them? I have a list. They are ruining this Forum and driving everyone of value who is respected here and have made real contributions to their fellow human beings, away. Someone needs to begin to hold these people to account.

Hi Ahkenaten,

can you PM me your list? :)


Sok Got it.....


:hurt:

Can I see the non-human list now AHK? Huh????? :fish2:



Cheers,

Ice

[jorr lundstrom]

This is a nice gang. Really. I love you all. Are you satisfied with the test? LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ice. I PM:d you his list. LOL

[crosby]

I couldn't PM Charles, I wouldn't dare! I am not of the anointed. I would love to, but I suspect he is of rock star status on here now.

i have pm'd him twice. no response either time.
regards, corson

[Ahkenaten]

This is a nice gang. Really. I love you all. Are you satisfied with the test? LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ice. I PM:d you his list. LOL


You realize Jorr that sending personal messages without the permission of the sender to someone else is grounds for being barred from this Forum, don't you? Not to mention a breach of trust.

[Flash]

i certainly understand the frustration of the senior members. its unfortunate that many of them are leaving. its a frustrating time for everyone, and they are needed now more than ever. so i hope they change their mind and return. i suspect many of them will. i've always enjoyed their presence.

Ahkenaten, i can see that you are a senior member, and i respect that. i agree that something must be done about the senior members leaving. i just fear that if senior and junior mrmbers keep squabbling, EVERYONE will leave. won't do us any good.

anyhow, i appreciated your response.

best,
Mike

I have been reading the posts for 3 years before joining 11/2 week before Charles (my luck!). I truly enjoyed the quality of the forum then. I am soooo sorry that they are leaving. I truly miss them. The job that was appointed to Charles (other than taking personal care of Bill) seems to be achieved. How can we get the oldies back? They need to flood this forum back.
Thanks Akhenaten, Greybeard, and others to remain.

[Ahkenaten]

i certainly understand the frustration of the senior members. its unfortunate that many of them are leaving. its a frustrating time for everyone, and they are needed now more than ever. so i hope they change their mind and return. i suspect many of them will. i've always enjoyed their presence.

Ahkenaten, i can see that you are a senior member, and i respect that. i agree that something must be done about the senior members leaving. i just fear that if senior and junior mrmbers keep squabbling, EVERYONE will leave. won't do us any good.

anyhow, i appreciated your response.

best,
Mike

I have been reading the posts for 3 years before joining 11/2 before Charles (my luck!). I truly enjoyed the quality of the forum then. I am soooo sorry that they are leaving. I truly miss them. The job that was appointed to Charles (other than taking personal care of Bill) seems to be achieved. How can we get the oldies back? They need to flood this forum back.
Thanks Akhenaten, Greybeard, and others to remain.

Sorry to say Greybeard has said he is leaving too.

[Flash]

Sorry to say Greybeard has said he is leaving too.

OUF!!
I have a message saying my first message is too short. Therefore:
OUF! OUF!

[Icecold]

This is a nice gang. Really. I love you all. Are you satisfied with the test? LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ice. I PM:d you his list. LOL





You realize Jorr that sending personal messages without the permission of the sender to someone else is grounds for being barred from this Forum, don't you? Not to mention a breach of trust.


Thanks Ahk.

Hope your energy is now satisfied.


BTW your list has not been made public on the forum. JS


Jorr is banned until next month.


Funny that someone can create a hate list and the person who receives it gets banned. LOL

He might have said that, but did he send you a list?

I doubt it. Catch 22 says you couldn't send it to me even if he did.

The thing is you did create a hit list. I've got it.

[Ahkenaten]

This is a nice gang. Really. I love you all. Are you satisfied with the test? LOL

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ice. I PM:d you his list. LOL





You realize Jorr that sending personal messages without the permission of the sender to someone else is grounds for being barred from this Forum, don't you? Not to mention a breach of trust.


Thanks Ahk.

Hope your energy is now satisfied.


BTW your list has not been made public on the forum. JS


Jorr is banned until next month.

OK IceCold - just for the record since all this is public now, am I right? Since Jorr was so dishonorable to send you my PM........................aside from the fact that you two are "friends" - why, I wonder would he be falling over himself to send you that list? He told me he has his list, too.

[9eagle9]

There are no moral consequences to 'these' actions. People choose to take things personally because they wrap their self identity up in these sorts of things.

You can't bait anyone unless they choose to take the bait.

[Ahkenaten]

That's right - it does take two to tango. Very correct. Specifically with regard to this thread, the problem is that certain disruptive behaviors here are damaging this forum. In general, there are in fact moral consequences to each of one's actions - the fact that someone else "plays" along does not absolve either one of responsibility for their behavior. So are you saying that because a victim "put themselves in harm's way" (rape victim, theft victim, murder victim) that there is no consequence to the actions of the one taking action against another? There is something wrong from my point of view with that moral set.

[Flash]

There are no moral consequences to 'these' actions. People choose to take things personally because they wrap their self identity up in these sorts of things.

You can't bait anyone unless they choose to take the bait.

I disagree with this statement. See the sociopath thread. This is what a manipulator would say about the victim: she likes it!! She chose it!

Second: Icecold and Akhenaten, frankly, I like you both of you. Make friend together, shake hands. And how for g. sake can any one of you ever think of creating a "hate list" "hit list" "mushy list" "whatever list" of other members apart from a "communication list"? Please, leave the ego at the door.
Love

Thank you.

[Icecold]

That's right - it does take two to tango. Very correct. Specifically with regard to this thread, the problem is that certain disruptive behaviors here are damaging this forum. In general, there are in fact moral consequences to each of one's actions - the fact that someone else "plays" along does not absolve either one of responsibility for their behavior. So are you saying that because a victim "put themselves in harm's way" (rape victim, theft victim, murder victim) that there is no consequence to the actions of the one taking action against another? There is something wrong from my point of view with that moral set.


I'm off this thread.

Have fun ladies and gentlemen.

[Maria Stade]

Icecold wrote


Funny that someone can create a hate list and the person who receives it gets banned. LOL


Yes that is amazing !

A forum full of robots creating texts ! Im amazed truly.

[9eagle9]

[ :: { } ::]


psst...yer bleeding



There are no moral consequences to 'these' actions. People choose to take things personally because they wrap their self identity up in these sorts of things.

You can't bait anyone unless they choose to take the bait.

I disagree with this statement. See the sociopath thread. This is what a manipulator would say about the victim: she likes it!! She chose it!

Second: Icecold and Akhenaten, frankly, I like you both of you. Make friend together, shake hands. And how for g. sake can any one of you ever think of creating a "hate list" "hit list" "mushy list" "whatever list" of other members apart from a "communication list"? Please, leave the ego at the door.
Love

Thank you.

[Ahkenaten]

There are no moral consequences to 'these' actions. People choose to take things personally because they wrap their self identity up in these sorts of things.

You can't bait anyone unless they choose to take the bait.

I disagree with this statement. See the sociopath thread. This is what a manipulator would say about the victim: she likes it!! She chose it!

Second: Icecold and Akhenaten, frankly, I like you both of you. Make friend together, shake hands. And how for g. sake can any one of you ever think of creating a "hate list" "hit list" "mushy list" "whatever list" of other members apart from a "communication list"? Please, leave the ego at the door.
Love

Thank you.

Hi Flash - it wasn't a hate list. No such thing exists. A number of members have been talking offline about the issue of disruptive behavior on this Forum and who is doing it. I stupidly sent Jorr that list, my mistake. No hate list. As for IceCold - his behavior speaks for itself. Since he saw the list - I am straight out asking him if I was right, that is fair and square - he was the one who mentioned it here on this Forum, not me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Icecold wrote


Funny that someone can create a hate list and the person who receives it gets banned. LOL


Yes that is amazing !

A forum full of robots creating texts ! Im amazed truly.

there was no hate list and IceCold knows that very well. He is as usual being provocative which pretty much proves my point. As for robots creating texts I wonder where you got that idea from?

[Flash]

[ :: { } ::]


psst...yer bleeding



There are no moral consequences to 'these' actions. People choose to take things personally because they wrap their self identity up in these sorts of things.

You can't bait anyone unless they choose to take the bait.

I disagree with this statement. See the sociopath thread. This is what a manipulator would say about the victim: she likes it!! She chose it!

Second: Icecold and Akhenaten, frankly, I like you both of you. Make friend together, shake hands. And how for g. sake can any one of you ever think of creating a "hate list" "hit list" "mushy list" "whatever list" of other members apart from a "communication list"? Please, leave the ego at the door.
Love

Thank you.

I'll put a beaume (don't know if this word exist in English but no taste to look for translation - goo word anyhow) on your bleeding. Love you usually, don't worry.

Just tought of it and editing my post: Unless it is me bleeding - Oh saint paranoia! What did you mean? lol

[Ahkenaten]

Flash I think he means that I am bleeding, i.e. I am wounded. Not really. It was stupid of me and my own fault. But there was no hate list, never was. That is twisting the facts in a very malicious way. In fact one way to interpret what happened here is an example of "instant karma" - I stupidly, without discernment, naively trusting Jorr's intentions to look into who is being disruptive on the Forum, sent him my list of people I think are being deliberately disruptive. Results? He immediately sent that list to Icecold and maybe others, too.......I got smacked in public for creating a "hate list" (my own fault, I deserved it, but it wasn't a hate list) Jorr got booted off the Forum, etc. etc. Instant Karma, this is it! Can't deny my role, and I deserved it.

[9eagle9]

S/he meant that you seem to be taking it a bit too personally. Because I don't see where you are a injured party in this whole matter.. I for one am not taking any hate list seriously and believe me s/he's been on a few. Mostly For not taking things as personally as people would like me to take them.

If you take things like this so seriously it tips you over, what happens when we are confronted with something that really has some teeth.

[ponda]

i certainly understand the frustration of the senior members. its unfortunate that many of them are leaving. its a frustrating time for everyone, and they are needed now more than ever. so i hope they change their mind and return. i suspect many of them will. i've always enjoyed their presence.

Ahkenaten, i can see that you are a senior member, and i respect that. i agree that something must be done about the senior members leaving. i just fear that if senior and junior mrmbers keep squabbling, EVERYONE will leave. won't do us any good.

anyhow, i appreciated your response.

best,
Mike

Hi Chinaski


Don't feel too bad if some of the longer serving members leave.I don't think that everyone who leaves is going because of any perceived disruptions etc.Sometimes it's just time to move on and focus on other activities.

I suspect that many more will give more attention to other aspects of their lives over the next two years as we approach 2012/13 and don't be surprised to see some of the oldtimers popping back in from time to time.

cheers

[Shezbeth]

They are ruining this Forum and driving everyone of value who is respected here and have made real contributions to their fellow human beings, away.

As a post-Atticus member, I can say the following with certainty. The way this forum is perceived and often referred to by "Senior Members" and the way it is perceived by New members is not necessarily consistent. I say this to illustrate that one person's perceptions are not another's.

I am curious of the following choices of phrase, I find they are quite telling:
"Ruining this forum"
"Everyone of value"

There seems to be a fair degree of attachment to intellectual constructs, as implied by these phrases. Specifically, the 'of value' term raises flags, as it implies that those who aren't/haven't/won't leave are other than 'of value' simply because they are new and have not had the time to contribute as older members have. Just a theory though,.... :noidea:

[Borden]

Wow. I bet my ears were burning in my sleep.

What amazes me is that my original post was taken the way it was. The toys have been thrown out of the pram. How on Earth could that happen? This was meant to be a debate about Charles, not a mud-slinging session. Looking at the posts made after i went to bed I imagine I'm on this list that's been mentioned. What is all that about? I mean, seriously.

I'm a new member. I have no sinister motive. I am not and was not rabble-rousing or doing whatever Ahkenaten suggested about his karma-wheely thing. I found his various comments surprisingly provocative, and I shouldn't have risen to his bait, but I'm only human. Oh, and as for MAAT and the feather? Well, judging from the only exchange I've ever had with you, I'll stand next to you, mate, with my head held high.

There. I did it again. Rose to the bait. Bother.

I've obviously entered a place where there is a lot of mistrust and grievance among older members. All I wanted was debate on the Charles stuff. I even stated that I am undecided one way or the other. Even when offended and being a little more honest than I should, in mentioning his Narcissism - it wasn't a flat-out statement that he is a fraud. If he is who he says he is then he's likely a Narcissist. You'd have to be. Inflicting physical cruelty on other human beings (which he's admitted he has) requires some sort of imbalance.

Somebody mentioned some names in this thread a little earlier - saying that we all have to suspend our disbelief a little. I agreed with the poster, but some of the names made me laugh. Some of these people are palpable con-men. Without discernment we are nothing. It depresses, enrages and hurts me that these con-men damage the credibility of genuine men and women who want to bring the truth to light. They are out there, and we have all seen them speak. But they live in a hostile environment. What hope do they have if they have to rub shoulders with fakers and fakirs?

As I have already repeated, this was supposed to be a debate. I'm not interested in the snotty back and forth that happened last night. It surprised me.

[modwiz]

Yawn............Bed time.

Even us people on lists have to sleep.:rolleyes::biggrin::spy::gossip::madgrin::bored:

[megaorgun]

Well my hunch was,

-Yes an secret society insider
-infiltrate as a whistle-blower
-build trust play on a certain group/persons subconscious with fear tactics
-ultimately disrupt someones work.:tape2:




Yes I am psychic and have psychic friends we are like the x-men only we have tea and biscuits. ^^

[Borden]

That sort of thing has occurred to me, megaorgun, and if he isn't on the up and up then I would think it unlikely that he has no connection at all to the things he talks about. Again, and for the record, I do not necessarily believe him to be a fraud. All I am interested in is that our discernment is always switched on.

What some who have looked at this thread won't know is that it's actually uncomfortable for me to debate (or try to anyway) this subject. When I saw the interview I was fascinated by it, as it had various elements - for me - that made it stand out over many other so-called whistle blowers. It had a ring of truth that surprised and interested me.

On the one hand, I could say that scrutiny of something like this is essential. I am not an acolyte, and will not ignore my own doubts and questions. If 'Charles' is who and what he says, and if the situation is as he says - then I think our discernment should be turned up to eleven. It's important to pay attention.

On the other hand, I respect Bill, and he says there are various compelling things about 'Charles' that he isn't able to tell us. Coming from someone other than Bill that might sound dodgy, but his natural integrity carries weight with me. I believe him.

I'm open to several different conclusions about this subject, but won't draw one automatically. That's the point of debating an issue. All I wanted was insights, not arguments. I'm even prepared to be wrong, but since I haven't stated a conclusion one way or the other I'm not.

Thank you megaorgun for your ideas. That's the sort of thing I was looking for. Including people telling me why they think 'Charles' is genuine. And by the way, I'm more like Magneto, so if we ever bump into each other in a tea shop there might be a dreadful argument over custard creams versus bourbons.

[bestbeforedate]

The idea of Trojan horse comes to my mind. I really am puzzled by the concept of choosing 18 representatives... divide and conquer!
Borden, you expressed what I had in mind, thank you for your contribution.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Perhaps this is a good time to talk about consciousness. I see it as a river that we are all drawing from and all releasing into.

I would like to ask you if you think you are polluting the river of consciousness or purifying it. (Now the first reaction of some will probably be to look at others and begin pointing fingers at who you think is polluting). But remember, my questions is: What are you, putting into this river.

This thread makes it clear to me that we need to find a kinder way of speaking. We can speak our thoughts without accusing others or pointing fingers. I know we can, I'm sure we can.

When we attack, that is not coming from the higher self. But - and here is the dichotomy - when we defend ourselves, the other party feels that as an attack. So either way we are polluting the river of consciousness. Let's take the other party out of it when we respond - and always be aware if our words are polluting or purifying this river that we must then dip into.

Perhaps knowing this, Charles's only purpose was to keep the fight going, so to keep the pollution of consciousness going. Or, perhaps Charles is simply an individual desperately seeking attention. Or, perhaps he's the real thing (not in my opinion, but I honor your opinion). Let us not be addicted to everyone agreeing with us. Instead, when someone says something that makes you react, try to understand why you are reacting. We're here to work on and understand self ~ and, if nothing else, Charles is surely being a conduit for that.

[Fred Steeves]

Borden you seem quite linguistically skilled at a certain level that is. But you should really cut out the games. If you are really interested in debating the validity and veracity of Charles and his information I suggest that you do what a stand-up soldier of integrity would do (assuming his Commander agreed) and take these issues directly to Charles himself. I am sure with your skills of discernment you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak, as he answers your questions directly.

Ankenaten, that would be a great idea if Charles didn't conveniently ignore the tough questions. I've given up, and surely others have too. There are plenty of threads for people to fawn over Charles, feel special, and ignore inconsisantsies and/or red flags. What's the problem with a thread in general discussion that welcomes people to talk about things they have noticed, that have not been addressed, and are a bit wary about. This is still our home too isn't it?

Surely we don't want to be like Al Gore and just declare the debate over...


Cheers,
Fred S.

[bestbeforedate]

I am amazed the amount of time and great energy spent on the Charles materials. Certainly, some people are very glad to see the avalonian minds totally absorbed by this story. Maybe something even more intersting is going on elsewhere, I don't know... maybe in arabic countries perhaps! Charles is pointing his finger and we all look the same way... basic ruse!

I summit Charles' preach on crop circles: "The first couple of crop circles were drone landing zones in GMO fields. After which, overzealous students and societies with scaffold boards and GPS took up the hobby". Now, I have a problem with that... makes we frown...

[Borden]

This thread shows signs of turning into what I originally intended. Thank you to the last few posters.

When we take sides we seem to lose our integrity. When we defend or attack we are no longer talking about the truth as we see it, but our emotional investment in what we have decided. If I make observations it does not necessarily mean I have decided anything. If I hold two opposing opinions at the same time I find that there is often a gap through which valuable insight slips past the usual doormen of our emotional/logical/evolutionary blundering through this world. If we want to truly understand things in this confused world we have to (I believe) fight our minds to a certain extent. But fighting that mind will also strengthen it for the things we want to use it for. The only battles people like us should be engaged in are probably with ourselves, and those should be good humoured and gentlemanly.

In some ways I would love to speak to 'Charles', but what would I ask him? That's Bill's job. My job - our job, as I see it - is to pay close attention and to be discerning. Above all, I think we should not polarize ourselves into stupidity. We are like an ocean of switches that are flicked this way and that by TPTB, and they do understand how to appeal to our most primitive nature. I will not be treated like an animal. And you've only got to look at how human beings largely treat animals to get some idea of the distinct lack of compassion in our 'handling'.

Now that we get to it, there are doubts here, and I share them. That doesn't mean I have decided 'Charles' is a fraud. I am just as interested in opinions on why he's not a fraud.

[firstlook]

You can tell a person by the fruits of their actions or non actions.
Enough said.
Goodnight may your God bless you
Chris

I just want to discuss the idea of being able to tell what a person is about.

In my opinion there are two categories that relate to judgment of a person.

1. Is how the individual describes him or herself. How does the individual reflect their words and actions. This can only be truly established through their own spoken reflections. Interpretation is not a factor here. One must focus on the obvious statements the individual makes about his or her past.

2. How do you, the judge, relate to the archetype you perceive. I do not believe that when a person judges another, that they can go to far from the classic archetype character structure. The Tarot cards are very established in the human Psyche for a reason and people who have not even studied the archetypes, make these judgments everyday. Now, thats not saying judgment is wrong.

The issue I have with deciding a persons character is gaging there "free will" factor. I use this method down to the most micro scale. Each tone, movement, expression, is related to a persons free will to use their intention. While some may have service to self expressions across the board, they may not be using their free will to express the feelings/thoughts in any harmful way. Usually its about narcissism of vary degrees. We all do it.

Then their are those who have very little service to self ideas and feelings but appear more nefarious then those who do not embrace there free will as much. These individuals express much of their free will, showing small amounts of internal struggle but through highly open expressions.

The issue between all these archetypes, is to always show compassion. What that really means is never assuming the road a person is going to take internally because of what you observe externally. Saying you have someones number and you understand what they are about, while it may not seem it, is a highly negative energy you are sending to the individuals free will. Its a challenge to his or her's free will in a way that resembles a competition. But the fact you are drawing this competition out of them is what makes it non-sustainable and they themselves gain no knowledge or wisdom about facing their own choices in a balanced way.

I just wanted to mention this, because we talk alot about knowing what a person is about, when in fact that person is an ever changing being who is still trying to figure themselves out. This applies to everyone no matter their actions or expressions.

Stay strong in this knowledge, so that you can continue to not look at people as stationary archetypes,l but instead as the evolving/conscious beings that we are. If you need to establish a safety barrier for your thoughts and feelings, it should be done internally without the need to tell others, subtly, about how to interact with a person and how safe he or she isn't. That is a highly individual and personal process that needs to be encouraged for every sovereign soul in order to develop their methods of giving their energies to the universe in all its form.

Peace :)

[enoch]

Did any of us question when we saw Darth Vader (star wars) use his telepathic powers to choke the life out of his poor underlings.
Or reach out and will his light saber to come from 30 feet across the room. No i just accepted that he was tapped in to the (Dark side)
and exercising his new toys. Darth being closest to The Power That Was got to play in a new sand box.
i my self like to see someone question the matter of fact statements being presented to the masses.
i think wow what would it have been like if we kept believing the world was flat.
of if we all believed Jim Jones and drank his kool-aid
i leave it to the individual to decide is he (Charles) Darth. Obi wan of just an underling sent to beguile?
i don't doubt that Charles is involved with TPTB to what extent and end purpose i am not sure.
i do know that TPTB do not have my best interest at heart.
i pay close attention to see if his message is for just the "enlightened" or the common man who swings a hammer all day.
There seem to be many different interpretations of enlightenment presented on this forum. i wait to see which form he (Charles) gravitates towards. this will reveal more than the spoken word
i decided to withhold my judgment until i see the fruit of his endeavors then i will judge the tree.
i will not blindly follow any man nor will i join in any ego stroking to coax for information that should be freely given
i think if i lived my life as a professional assassin and usurper of other men's gain then had a change of heart
i would be most anxious to lesson my karma-tic return ( sowing an reaping whatever expression you fancy ) and reach as many as i could with the "truth". if i remember correctly Darth didn't really change sides until the end of the series and his master never did lol.

[firstlook]

I just want to discuss the idea of being able to tell what a person is about.

In my opinion there are two categories that relate to judgment of a person.

1. Is how the individual describes him or herself. How does the individual reflect their words and actions. This can only be truly established through their own spoken reflections. Interpretation is not a factor here. One must focus on the obvious statements the individual makes about his or her past.

2. How do you, the judge, relate to the archetype you perceive. I do not believe that when a person judges another, that they can go to far from the classic archetype character structure. The Tarot cards are very established in the human Psyche for a reason and people who have not even studied the archetypes, make these judgments everyday. Now, thats not saying judgment is wrong.

The issue I have with deciding a persons character is gaging there "free will" factor. I use this method down to the most micro scale. Each tone, movement, expression, is related to a persons free will to use their intention. While some may have service to self expressions across the board, they may not be using their free will to express the feelings/thoughts in any harmful way. Usually its about narcissism of vary degrees. We all do it.

Then their are those who have very little service to self ideas and feelings but appear more nefarious then those who do not embrace there free will as much. These individuals express much of their free will, showing small amounts of internal struggle but through highly open expressions.

The issue between all these archetypes, is to always show compassion. What that really means is never assuming the road a person is going to take internally because of what you observe externally. Saying you have someones number and you understand what they are about, while it may not seem it, is a highly negative energy you are sending to the individuals free will. Its a challenge to his or her's free will in a way that resembles a competition. But the fact you are drawing this competition out of them is what makes it non-sustainable and they themselves gain no knowledge or wisdom about facing their own choices in a balanced way.

I just wanted to mention this, because we talk alot about knowing what a person is about, when in fact that person is an ever changing being who is still trying to figure themselves out. This applies to everyone no matter their actions or expressions.

Stay strong in this knowledge, so that you can continue to not look at people as stationary archetypes,l but instead as the evolving/conscious beings that we are. If you need to establish a safety barrier for your thoughts and feelings, it should be done internally without the need to tell others, subtly, about how to interact with a person and how safe he or she isn't. That is a highly individual and personal process that needs to be encouraged for every sovereign soul in order to develop their methods of giving their energies to the universe in all its form.

Peace :)

I forgot to add that this form of practice in perception, keeps the mind focused on ever changing information. It allows one to process truth in a very subjective way while still maintaining understanding of the laws of the universe and how they interact in infinite possibilities.

You become an observer. :)

[Ahkenaten]

Borden you seem quite linguistically skilled at a certain level that is. But you should really cut out the games. If you are really interested in debating the validity and veracity of Charles and his information I suggest that you do what a stand-up soldier of integrity would do (assuming his Commander agreed) and take these issues directly to Charles himself. I am sure with your skills of discernment you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak, as he answers your questions directly.

Ankenaten, that would be a great idea if Charles didn't conveniently ignore the tough questions. I've given up, and surely others have too. There are plenty of threads for people to fawn over Charles, feel special, and ignore inconsisantsies and/or red flags. What's the problem with a thread in general discussion that welcomes people to talk about things they have noticed, that have not been addressed, and are a bit wary about. This is still our home too isn't it?

Surely we don't want to be like Al Gore and just declare the debate over...


Cheers,
Fred S.

Fred I have stayed out of the pros and cons re: the Charles controversy and incidentally am not a big supporter not that it matters at all, rather I am skeptical in all things. What I have been concerned about are what I think are deliberate efforts ongoing to undermine and attack this Forum in the various discussions and in various ways sometimes not at all easy to detect. While it is not at all clear exactly what is going on, something IS going on and it isn't right. Also in that regard I am not an old members vs new members person at all. What really matters are the individuals who gather here, the quality of people's contributions and ultimately, shining through their words human minds and intentions that cannot be hidden from discerning minds. It would be helpful if all those intent on playing games examined their own consciences and considered stopping. It is not helpful or positive.

[Borden]

Hello, firstlook,

them's some pretty deep words. Thank you.

[Borden]

Ahkenaten, let's not argue any more.

You have my word (and you'll have to decide what that's worth) that I am not here to cause problems, disruptions or anything other of a nefarious nature. My questioning is honest, and I've explained how and why. I certainly have no desire to alienate people. Let's drop it, okay? I hope that the fact that we're both in here means that we're essentially on the same side.

[Shezbeth]

Borden - I very much appreciate the contribution that this thread has made. I have read through your posts and have the following comments:

I agree with your unresolved doubts. Charles (in the video) and Atticus (in the forum) state things in a way that ring of truth,... for the most part. There are things that are mentioned that seem inconsistent or questionable, and those things are usually thrown in 'between' things that are (essentially) undeniable. I have experienced and observed before however, that administering untruth amidst a heap of truth is a decisive and effective tactic.

I appreciate Bestbeforedate's mention of crop circles. I agree that some (most) of the simpler circles are likely of human origin,... the ones that look like building schematics. Conversely, Nassim Haramein has included in his uber-lecture examples of crop circles which I suggest are entirely too intricate and complicated to be of human origin, whether by drone or frat-boys. The content of a few, which is in translatable binary code defies the idea of human creation IMO.

As I see it, there are two predominant theories about Atticus' involvement on Avalon:
1. He is here to guide, inform, and unite
2. He is here to mislead, disinform, and divide

I present the following possible theory
3. He is here for BOTH 1. and 2.

I have alluded before and will now outright say it.

There were many before, and now are many more in Avalon who respond to the Atticus material as per their disposition/conditioning. Some will join together, unite, and form more cohesive bonds with one another. Others naturally respond by increased separation, segregation, and dissolution of bonds. I won't name names - a quick survey of various threads will give one plenty of examples of both poles of this equation.

Atticus, in his earlier posts referred to the idea that some will not make it through the adversity that is 'to come', even going so far as to respond negatively to some of the more supercilious and superfluous questions and comments. We can, I hope, agree that not all the questions directed to/about Atticus are relevant or coherent. Many knew and agreed before Atticus arrived that there was some form of adversity 'to come', however the awareness of that was/is not universal.

Particularly, it seems that due to Atticus' appearance/participation many feel they have had the onus of preparation (mental, physical, dietary, logistical) removed. Those individuals seem to be making their presence known, and I assume this is what Ahkenaten was referring to by his list - reference George Carlin on people who are stupid, full of %^&(, and $%^&ing nuts.

Ultimately I suggest that some form of division is the natural response of a group that shares different individual values, perceptions, and dispositions, to the Atticus material. I also suggest that Atticus knew this before he began his involvement - one cannot do the work he mentions doing, with such an intricate and intimate knowledge of human behavior and not realize how others will respond - and that Bill may have known it as well.

It has been said before that there must be a separation of the wheat from the chaff,... one does this by threshing (destroying) the plant.

[Borden]

thank you, Shezbeth,

I have not read those replies you mention, but who has the time? If this a chess game then who knows what strategies are in play? It is disturbing to most human beings to contemplate the sort of insectile intelligence that goes into governing a mammal species. It is brutal, ruthless, and entirely without mammalian compassion. We are idiots to them.

I hope you are right about Atticus and his intentions. Debate is what we have. True debate and its resultant are horrific to TPTB.

[Flash]

i certainly understand the frustration of the senior members. its unfortunate that many of them are leaving. its a frustrating time for everyone, and they are needed now more than ever. so i hope they change their mind and return. i suspect many of them will. i've always enjoyed their presence.

Ahkenaten, i can see that you are a senior member, and i respect that. i agree that something must be done about the senior members leaving. i just fear that if senior and junior mrmbers keep squabbling, EVERYONE will leave. won't do us any good.

anyhow, i appreciated your response.

best,
Mike

Hi Chinaski


Don't feel too bad if some of the longer serving members leave.I don't think that everyone who leaves is going because of any perceived disruptions etc.Sometimes it's just time to move on and focus on other activities.

I suspect that many more will give more attention to other aspects of their lives over the next two years as we approach 2012/13 and don't be surprised to see some of the oldtimers popping back in from time to time.

cheers

How in total disagreement I am with your comments about those leaving. I think they are leaving because this forum has become a bickering place, with no real information given by those having most of the main threads.

How do you want well educated (I don't mean scolar, I mean behavior), well informed and loving people stay in such an environment.

The problem once again is that manipulators get in, and everybody says: nothing is happening, this is normal! JUst don't read, just don't....Wake up guys, bickering, insults, bullying and manipulation is the norm for power struggles and destruction. This is the path of all those leading the planet. Please, wake up.

And everywhere I go in the forum, thinking this will be a good thread, with information, I get:

- A video with no explanations (no time here to look at them all)
- Charles here Charles said that there, even if unrelated to the prime topic of the thread. I am not in a sect, If I want to know what Charles said, I can read the very numerous tread about him. I don't have the choice anylonger, I am constantly exposed to supposedly words said by Charles, when I do not want to hear about it. (I just opened another unrelated to Charles thread and all I read was Charles.)
- Bickering between a few people.
- Obvious malveillance and sometimes provocators.

Don't I understand the Berens and Greybeards of this world. This is desperating.

Here what I feel and think and if I leave, yes it will be because of the above, not because life brings me somewhere else, but because power took over the forum.

[crosby]

Borden, just wanted to let you know that there is an interesting conversation going on in regards to charles over at the duncan ofinian thread. check it out. it is rather captivating
regards, corson

[ItsAllCreated]

I dont think its ever a bad thing to question something.

If one is fighting, or attempting to stop questions, then you could be fighting the whole universe (its like your attempting to stop differences in perspective from occurring). Even if you believe your only attempting to stop a certain question because of the motive behind that question... you're still attempting to stop a question (and now your attempting to stop a motive too). If you can't be excepting of all that already is in our universe... then when will your quest to stop existence end (when differences are eradicated)? Are you gonna fight the whole universe, because consciousness dares to ask questions and be different? (thats something like what the Elite do now that is a problem for those who are different from them)

In my view its valuable to know all side of the sphere even if you only intend to play & help create one little perspective of it (at the core of things: everything matters because everything is connected in some way)

I too have questions regarding Charles role & his motives. & I too have been mis-understood at times when I've raised questions or concerns regarding the popular direction of things (not here on Avalon, but other places). Even when my heart had nothing but good intentions (while being careful with my words to express my good intentions), I have been misunderstood at times.

Theres no doubt (in my view) that most Avalonians have good intentions, and they (like me) are choosing to believe and create good things from the chaotic situations that we have to work with in our World.

I am sorry to hear that some valuable people have left Avalon because of the stress that has been caused with opposite thinking & motives. But where do they think they can go? Our World has issues & there is no way to disregard them or keep them out if we are to get passed them and move forward onto something better. Our world is partly sickened because people choose to focus on one thing, and disregard another (is that what we want to keep doing?).

I think that the author of this thread has every right to question (no matter what his motives maybe). Just as Charles has every right to play role (no matter what his motives maybe), so does the author of this thread have every right to play too.

Our World is so chaotic (I physically & emotionally feel our Worlds pain in my heart), and I'm here in life (experiencing the abuse of its reality) so that I may have the opportunity to learn from this & help steer this invaluable jewel towards another path. I'm not going to let one persons motives & questions get too me, when there is so much more going on. I take it all in acceptance, with the knowing that I will use it all for my own loving choices (And I'm thankful for all that I receive in knowing that all things I have will help me make a better choice).

Again I am sorry that some have been so stress out with conflicting ideas that they have chosen to leave Avalon, but if we don't question, then how do we choose? Can choices even exist if one cannot find any differences?

Differences should be observed, questions should be asked, & choices should be made.

So what is the issue with this thread??? Why is it a problem to ask questions? Isnt that what Avalon is about? In my view I think there is more potential for problems to occur if you're not asking questions.

[ItsAllCreated]

I'm a full on believer in everything. If there was ever such a thing as a skeptic, then I am the opposite of skeptic. Instead of looking for ways to find flaws and reasoning as to how something cannot be... I seem to naturally (right from the start) know that there is some way that everything can be (& be existing simultaneously at once). I'm also one who hopes and wishes for the best. I want the best for our world & the people on it, and so I 'choose' to think & feel in that direction

When I 1st saw the Bill/Charles Vid, I had no problems with it at all (I still don't). Because I simply took the info for what it was (info). There was nothing in that Vid that surprised me (Not even that the 33 think they are doing the best good they can do, by being greatly destructive). I can see how people believe that they do good by being bad (thats not what I would do, but I have no problem understanding it). Its all choice & each chooses what they want to be right, wrong, good, & bad (or something in between where such things as good/bad do not exist). In Charles's own words theres no good & bad, and he doesnt even care what happens. When I watched the Vid, I choose to believe what Charles communicated; that he had done (what others might call) bad things, and now the new Charles wishes to do other things. At the same time I also believe him when he says that the ideas of good & bad are rubbish, and that he does not care what happens in this world. (again I beleive him when he says it, but I don't think or feel that way. I just can understand how one could think/feel that way).

The one thing I am sure of with Charles is that he is playing a the game of life and we are all in play. Which role he is playing is undetermined by me as of yet (i may never determine which role he is playing & it may not matter either). He could be the guy who aims to gain our trust & help steer us off course (which is fair play), or he could be the guy who aims to gain our trust & help steer us on course. He also says that he's playing both sides (he could be steering us off course enough to keep the 33 happy, while also steering us on course enough to keep us happy). One thing for sure is that we are the ones who are steering, and (I believe) Charles want to make sure it stays that way (thats why I believe he gives such vague, general, and contradiction answers alot of the time). He seems to be fair in that he tells us what he's done, & is doing (which is just as the Elites do, because they want to be able to say "we told you so, but you didnt listen, so now the consequences are you own"). He's still very much playing the 33's game and that's valid because in a sense we all have too deal with that game. Even if our aim here is to not play that game & begin a new game of our own, its still valuable to know the 33's game so that we can safely move away from it & into our own creation.

I guess my point is that I just take it for whatever it is. Although I find Charels story to be Very interesting, I don't know where its headed yet. One thing for sure I think Its good to question, so keep asking them. I think the more sides & perspective we can see, the better choices we can make for ourselves (and others)

[Billy]

I have reached page 3 in this thread, I think debating without "judgement" being present is always healthy. be aware of what you think and how you express yourselves, as yet Charles has not revealed any fruits, so i am neither for him or against him, but i will give him the space and support to manifest what he has expressed so far, because his expression "so far" resonates with my own belief/knowing system,

One part of my Knowing is That we can make a difference when we work together , which has been with me on my journey for more than 40yrs now. It was with me before Charles and it will be with me after Charles, Whatever or Whoever Charles is, my journey and passion to assist humanity will carry on regardless,

I am not sure why some are allowing insucurity to be felt within them, please debate and express without judgement and have patience with Charles to allow time for his fruit to bear.

Peace be with us all

[Gone002]

If your unsure, PM charles. State your case to him and ask him your questions.

[Mike]

hi Borden,

i was the poster who suggested we need to suspend our disbelief here and there. the names i listed(comparing to Charles)could have been anybody interviewed by avalon/camelot. i literally plucked those names out of thin air(can't even remember who i chose) the point i was trying to make was that its difficult to spot outrageousness when you're drowning in it. i guess what i was trying to say was, relative to the other whistleblowers, Charles story isn't THAT ridiculous. sure, we could pick it apart here and there, but is he really that much more outlandish than...(fill in the blank with any whistle blower that you may find credible)

i don't know. how do we REALLY judge whistleblowers? how do we determine their credibility when so many of them are saying the same thing with little to no proof. perhaps concrete conclusions are not to be made, only debated. which makes this, in my opinion, a pretty interesting thread you've started here. would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[ponda]

How in total disagreement I am with your comments about those leaving. I think they are leaving because this forum has become a bickering place, with no real information given by those having most of the main threads.

How do you want well educated (I don't mean scolar, I mean behavior), well informed and loving people stay in such an environment.

The problem once again is that manipulators get in, and everybody says: nothing is happening, this is normal! JUst don't read, just don't....Wake up guys, bickering, insults, bullying and manipulation is the norm for power struggles and destruction. This is the path of all those leading the planet. Please, wake up.

And everywhere I go in the forum, thinking this will be a good thread, with information, I get:

- A video with no explanations (no time here to look at them all)
- Charles here Charles said that there, even if unrelated to the prime topic of the thread. I am not in a sect, If I want to know what Charles said, I can read the very numerous tread about him. I don't have the choice anylonger, I am constantly exposed to supposedly words said by Charles, when I do not want to hear about it. (I just opened another unrelated to Charles thread and all I read was Charles.)
- Bickering between a few people.
- Obvious malveillance and sometimes provocators.

Don't I understand the Berens and Greybeards of this world. This is desperating.

Here what I feel and think and if I leave, yes it will be because of the above, not because life brings me somewhere else, but because power took over the forum.


You are never ever going to have everything just the way that you like it.A forum,this forum,any forum is never going to stay perpetually in a state of never ending perfection.People come and people go for many different reasons.Sure some have left because of 'perceived' bickering but this is a 'forum' remember,this is a place where part of what goes on is indeed exchange of ideas and opinions and views which can be interpreted by some as bickering.If you can't tolerate opposing views then you won't enjoy any forum not just this one.

Nobody is forcing anyone to slave away and read every single post about charles or 2012 or anything.If you don't like a trend of views by people or an exchange of opinion then my advice would be to find another topic that might give you what you are searching for or make you feel more comfortable.

For example in the main charles question threads i only read posts by charles and bill and virtually no others.I just flitted down through the thread and then read whatever charles or bill said or answered....easy and it saved a lot of time.I could of got bogged down by opposing views but i didn't.I found a way of reading the answers without having to endure every post and different opinion.

IMHO if people get upset and leave because of other peoples opinions then it is their choice and free will and not the other posters fault.

cheers

[linz2d]

I believe it is up to every person to make up their own minds on this situation. As a new member I will try to convey how I see this whole sitiuation.

The first time I came into contact with the Charles topic was after joining the forum and I was surprised to see a whole section dedicated to it. I watched the interview and it sounded interesting, psychic abilities, hypnotism, elite conspiracy, remote viewing, everything was interesting but nothing special.

I must admit when Bill said that he experienced Charles Psychic ability, thats what got me interested. However I have to ask my self is he beyond the capabilities of someone like Derren Brown who is an excellent hypnotist and master of suggestion, a man who can turn people into chickens almost instantly. And consider if you can make a man think he is a chicken then you can make a man walk in front of a bus. Anyway I concluded that it was all interesting. As the days past and I posted on here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13214-Is-the-Charles-33%C2%92s-POV-ok-or-a-Trojan-Horse-Who-do-you-agree-with-Bill-or-Kerry&p=148588&viewfull=1#post148588), two posts down Atticus replied to that thread with a response which was not relevant to the question. Well at that time I had only seen the video and did not understand was written in that post but still there is no reason for such a response.

Today I decided to read the Charles/Bill Q&A - Summary thread. Again interesting but its nothing I have never com across before. Psychic machines where you lay in an interface gel, an immortal master walking among us, a key to the planet. All interesting but most of these concepts I have heard before, from spirituality texts to Sci-fi books and films.

Lately,"interesting" has become my favorite word and I find allot of things interesting on Avalon one of them is how much attention is given to the Charles Material. But it is still up to the individual to make their own mind up whether it is real or not.

[Flash]

hi Borden,

i was the poster who suggested we need to suspend our disbelief here and there. the names i listed(comparing to Charles)could have been anybody interviewed by avalon/camelot. i literally plucked those names out of thin air(can't even remember who i chose) the point i was trying to make was that its difficult to spot outrageousness when you're drowning in it. i guess what i was trying to say was, relative to the other whistleblowers, Charles story isn't THAT ridiculous. sure, we could pick it apart here and there, but is he really that much more outlandish than...(fill in the blank with any whistle blower that you may find credible)

i don't know. how do we REALLY judge whistleblowers? how do we determine their credibility when so many of them are saying the same thing with little to no proof. perhaps concrete conclusions are not to be made, only debated. which makes this, in my opinion, a pretty interesting thread you've started here. would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

I agreed with your statement in bold at the beginning of Charles stories. But since, nothing, what is Charles story in fact? Right now, there is very very little. So why all the fuss around what? I clearly don't see any reason for the innumerable threads :
no answers to questions
no more addition to the first story (or so very little)
and a fan club

Sound like manipulation! Or like a sect. The guru of the sect moves his tiny little finger and everybody is in awe. But I wouldn't care that much if I could just read the regular threads without having to read about him at the same time. And if the regular interesting thread were not sinking down without exposure.

At this point, I would be surprise if I am wrong, but I still remain open. However, this has produced some bickering, offended people because we speak our mind (pro or against Atticus) etc etc.
So easy to manipulate a crowd! Why shoud we have pros and against to start with, and when we have, this should remain civilised. We are talking to the whole planet and are from the whole planet. Some do not want his Charles threads and are not here for that. We should also respect that.

[noxon medem]

Engage one of these. (rather cheap)

http://www.creatableinflatables.com/reptiles.htm

- just, for fun.

:)

:fish2:

[Flash]

Engage one of these. (rather cheap)

http://www.creatableinflatables.com/reptiles.htm

- just, for fun.

:)

:fish2:

After my post, absolutely hilarious, thanks

[Mike]

hi Flash,

well i guess its just a matter of opinion. i find the thread pretty interesting. what can i say?;)

i agree that we don't have too much to go on. i said something similiar in a previous post. i'm just waiting to see if anything interesting happens, to try to develop an opinion here. since this is a forum, for opinions and such, why not pass the time expressing opinons, having debates etc...i don't really see the harm. i just don't consider an extra charles thread here and there as a brainwashing threat.

as far as those that are not interested in charles, i'd simply suggest they don't participate in the charles threads. simple.

[Borden]

Hi, Chinaski,

My fingers SO want to type the names of those I find palpably ridiculous, but luckily my mind won't let me. After all, I don't know for sure. I mean, there are obvious signs of financial or egoical renumeration for many, but this is a strange old world we live in. I could always be wrong. Also, I don't want to enrage any fans of these various people. I've had enough argument with people in this thread, and all I wanted was debate.

I found the 'Charles' interview compelling, otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about it. I'd have disregarded it as I have many other interviews. There was something about it that made me pay attention.

On another note, and I hope this doesn't infringe any rules - I did PM Atticus, and he responded. So I was wrong about the rock star thing. I was pleasantly surprised. I'm sure it would infringe rules to talk about the content, and I certainly wouldn't anyway - but just for any of you who doubted that he could be contacted, well - he can.

"Its difficult to spot outrageousness when you're drowning in it."

Well said, Chinaski. I know exactly what you mean. But this is the problem, isn't it? We are the sort of people who really want to see the wiring under the board, but unfortunately we have to immerse ourselves in flakes and weirdos to get to what we're looking for. I can't say who I find ridiculous, but I can say who I find credible and fascinating - who Bill or similar has interviewed. Klaus Dona, Graham Hancock, David Icke. Yes, David Icke! Wow. And I know some of the arguments about David Icke, but I still persist in listening to the man. I like him. Oh, Clyde Lewis write some interesting articles too.

What is the difference between intelligent discernment and intuition? Are we conning ourselves to put them in two different and opposing camps? It's like the difference between intuition and paranoia. There's a fag paper between them, and as I see it the filtration process demands emotional discernment, not just intellectual discernment. I will keep using this bleeping word, discernment.

Thanks for your contribution, mate. I appreciate it.

Borden.