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Rayne T.
23rd February 2011, 21:06
Hi everyone, I had been reading the post by Bill about Wade Frazier's website - which I think is awesome, but I had one bone to pick, and made the following post.

After this post, I was pm'd about the diet, so I thought it would be a good idea to post a new thread about it for questions. I will do the best I can to answer from my own personal experience :) Here is the post I made....

"I have been reading through Wade's website, and like much of what I read. However there is one idea that I disagree with.

This particular idea, I feel, is being pushed by many all over and it is extremely dangerous to the health of humanity. This idea is that we should all become vegetarian.

Vegetarianism, is exactly what "they" want for us. Grains are the most harmful food a human can eat - contrary to popular belief, and we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies. Please don't just disagree and stop reading because of what you have read in magazines, heard on tv, or even experienced for yourself about the benefits of going vegetarian. Or, because of the nonsense you have read about how we get all of the protein we need from plants. We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach.

I could write everything I know about why we are not meant to eat grain here, but if you really want to know, then please read Aajonus Vonderplanitz book, "We Want To Live". He can describe this to you much better than I can.

I have saved my own life, and cured myself of over 15 symptoms ranging in severity by eating what is called he has called the Raw Primal Diet. Whatever you have heard on the internet about what is wrong with it, please don't believe it until you have done some investigation.

In 1998 at the age of 35, my health began to rapidly deteriorate. My list of symptoms included - restless legs, bleeding gums, weight gain alternating with severe weight loss, severe 3 day long headaches that occurred several time per month, Hep C, edema, anemia, severe anxiety and paranoia, food allergies, insomnia, blurring and deteriorating vision, ear infections, ADD, confusion, and social isolation.

I moved 40 miles from the nearest town, off grid, in the AZ high desert to try to begin to heal myself. I was completely disabled, and thought I would probably die. Doctors couldn't figure out my problem, and any medications only made me feel worse. The closest thing to a diagnosis was "you have some kind of autoimmune thing going on", and "the Hep C might explain some of it".

I began to study and read everything I could get my hands on about diet and health. Over the next 5 years, I tried raw vegetarianism, the macrobiotic diet, hundreds of dollars of supplements, and superfoods. Everything I tried made me sicker and sicker. And, no - I was not simply detoxifying because of my new "healthy" diet. I was dying.

In 2007, I gave up and moved home with my family in WV. This did not go well because of my mental problems, and I ended up fleeing to live in the basement of a friend's home. I was a mess.

The first thing I came to realize was that my problems had a spiritual basis. The spiritual manifests in the physical. "As above, so below". I began getting all of the spiritual healing I could afford, or have given to me for free.

A powerful shaman/healer gave me Reiki healing, and all of the attunments up to Reiki master teacher for practically free. A hypnotherapist friend of his gave me several very helpful session of hypnotherapy for only a painting - that I hadn't even painted yet. I received the rites of the Munay Ki, and learned E.F.T. This was only part of it. However, my physical self didn't recover.

When you have a spiritual problem long enough, it goes physical, and because of this, it takes physical action to heal the body sometimes - like dietary changes, and exercise, detoxification, removing exposure to toxins, etc. Well, another friend of mine spent over $1000 on a food allergy/sensitivity test for me, and I began to eat accordingly to the results. It was an ALCAT test.

I had improvement, and got my hopes up, but after almost a year, I ran back into my same old wall of not being able to eat more than one or two foods without experiencing horrible weight loss and the worst of the symptoms I listed above.

I was vegetarian, and I did it raw, I did it cooked, and a combination of both, and I was still dying.

Finally, I discovered Aajonus Vonderplanitz raw Primal diet online, which consists of raw meat, raw dairy, raw veggie juices, raw fruit, raw honey, etc.. I have been on this diet ever since, and have almost eliminated every single symptom I had except occasional bleeding gums, occasional restless legs - if I eat something I shouldn't like potato chips, lol, and I still get one of those three day long headaches about once every 3 months or so.

My muscles have filled back out. I gained weight, but not like someone in their 40's, I'm am shaping up even better than in my 20's. Hep C is gone. My energy is getting awesome. My eyesight is better. My mind is clear.

Please don't think I am selling anything here. I am not. I am not connected to A.Vonderplanitz in any way. I am just spreading information that I feel is needed here. This guy actually has a 95% cure rate for cancer.

Charles, if you have an incurable disease, contact Aajonus Vonderplantiz.

Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart.

Raw meat, and lots of raw animal fats are the healthiest, most cleansing things a person can eat. ALL of the info out there that tells us that meat and fat are bad for us are ALL based on cooked meat and fat.

How many nervous, high strung, scrawny vegans have we seen? I have seen LOTS.
I have also seen the few others - with the well developed muscular body and glowing health. They are mostly males under 50, and it won't last.

Believe me, I tried ALL of the raw oils, and superfoods, and everything else under the sun. In my studies, and experience I have learned that humans do not digest beans, nuts, and seeds well at all. They may for awhile appear to, that is all. These are not good sources of protein. We are not grazing animals. We aren't pure carnivores either. The raw Primal Diet, and perhaps the Paleo diet as well - i am still researching- are perfect for humans.

Please read the book, "We Want To Live". When you read it, you will recognize the truth of it.

Now, about the subject of animal abuse in the food industry. This is the real problem as well as all of the pollution created by factory farms. This must stop.

Professional hunting needs to replace this abusive destructive situation. Hunting should once again become the respected occupation it once was. And I don't mean by rediculously terrifying things like chasing down animals with helicopters.

Besides for the animal abuse, and pollution, the fact remains "we are what we eat". When we eat abused, enslaved, tortured animals who never see the light of day or get to play and run, then we take on that energy. The Native Americans knew this. The elite know this. Why do you think they spend huge sums of money to go somewhere and eat Tiger, or some other powerful wild animals?

We are part of this Earth. We are part of the food chain. Killing to eat is not wrong, it's being what we are. It is allowing ourselves to be, and live. People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy. Please do not believe all of what you hear about food poisoning, or e-coli, or salmonella either. Aajonus explains the truth about that too. I have been on this diet for 1 1/2 years now, and have never gotten food poisoning. That is a scam created by Big Food corps.

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

9eagle9
23rd February 2011, 21:24
You've made fabulous points. My health didn't get completely better till I eliminated ALL grains from my diet. I had onset MS and melanoma. Even after that I had to eliminate all grains in order to just feel good. Mind you I love bread and things like that but eating a peice of bread is like asking for week long hangover. Literally thats what I feel like, I've drank a fifth of rot gut the next day. Followed by sugar. I'm not sure that un hybrid grains are any better. I noticed no difference when I tried spelt.

There's a lot fruits that don't serve me very well either, and a few veggies like potatoes and other starchy types. I can do a potato now and again but the grain...lethal. Pity, I love beer...lol.

. Vegetarianism was out of the question due to severely limited food choice and as a holistic practitioner I've seen lots of them. I've never seen one who looked healthy mostly because they deny essential fats and amino acids from their diet. Your trials probably had a lot to do with improper amino acidization. .

Most vegetarians I've see at the very least looking way old before their time, dry hair and dry unhealthy looking skin.

thanks for the info, and especially for sharing the experience.

stashing that away for future reference.

Rayne T.
23rd February 2011, 21:36
You've made fabulous points. My health didn't get completely better till I eliminated ALL grains from my diet. I had onset MS and melanoma. Even after that I had to eliminate all grains in order to just feel good. Mind you I love bread and things like that but eating a peice of bread is like asking for week long hangover. Literally thats what I feel like, I've drank a fifth of rot gut the next day. Followed by sugar. I'm not sure that un hybrid grains are any better. I noticed no difference when I tried spelt.

There's a lot fruits that don't serve me very well either, and a few veggies like potatoes and other starchy types. I can do a potato now and again but the grain...lethal. Pity, I love beer...lol.

. Vegetarianism was out of the question due to severely limited food choice and as a holistic practitioner I've seen lots of them. I've never seen one who looked healthy mostly because they deny essential fats and amino acids from their diet. Your trials probably had a lot to do with improper amino acidization. .

Most vegetarians I've see at the very least looking way old before their time, dry hair and dry unhealthy looking skin.

thanks for the info, and especially for sharing the experience.

stashing that away for future reference.

Thanks for your post!

I'm the same way with fruits. See, most people don't realize that food, in it's natural raw organic form is very potent. That includes fruits. This is why Hyppocrates said to make your food your medicine. It's very powerful.

We are so used to being able to go to the store and buy all kinds of foods out of season and from every part of the world. This is unnatural and unhealthy. I used to drink a tropical raw smoothie every day because I thought it would heal me. Instead, my stomach would explode, lol.

You are certainly riight about the lack of healthy raw fat in the vegetarian diet. Avocados, and raw coconut butter are good sources, but many have trouble digesting avacados, and raw coconut butter is hard to make/find. People think oil can be substituted for other fats, but this isn't true. Oils are solvents, and work differently. We actually need raw animal fat. Raw eggs are good for this.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Jayke
23rd February 2011, 22:20
Interesting thread, I've read that eating a raw meat diet is great to reverse tooth decay as it provides the right nutrients you need to rebuild the dentin in your teeth, I've been eating a vegetarian diet for the past year but am always open to experimenting to optimise my health
got a couple questions for you
eating raw meat sounds a bit gross lol what kinds of raw meat do you find the most palatable?
where do you source the meat from, is organic from the supermarket ok or do you go direct from the farmers?
how much meat do you eat a day? is it an expensive diet to go on compared to when you were a vegetarian?
thanks
J

Arrowwind
23rd February 2011, 22:46
I agree with much of what you say... I have done the Atkins diet and found it quite incredible for me... I was vegetarian and at one point a raw fooder, for 13 years and all it did was make me weak. I needed high quality dense protien.

Its the grains that are killing us and now with the introduction of soy and fructose sugars to everyting its speeding the agenda.

You do not have to eat fully raw meat to benefit from the diet. Cook your steaks on the outside and quite rare on the inside. Stay away from raw hamburger and chicken of course.. that could kill you unless you raise and butcher your own meat.

Veggies should be frequent and mostly raw. Coconut oil, raw and virgin is not hard to get via mail order. I eat it by the spoonful every day

Rayne T.
23rd February 2011, 23:44
I agree with much of what you say... I have done the Atkins diet and found it quite incredible for me... I was vegetarian and at one point a raw fooder, for 13 years and all it did was make me weak. I needed high quality dense protien.

Its the grains that are killing us and now with the introduction of soy and fructose sugars to everyting its speeding the agenda.

You do not have to eat fully raw meat to benefit from the diet. Cook your steaks on the outside and quite rare on the inside. Stay away from raw hamburger and chicken of course.. that could kill you unless you raise and butcher your own meat.

Veggies should be frequent and mostly raw. Coconut oil, raw and virgin is not hard to get via mail order. I eat it by the spoonful every day

Hi Arrowwind,

You've got it right about the grains and sugars. Yes, you can lightly cook the steaks on the outside, but I don't because that adds carcinogens to the meal. I eat this diet for it's healing and re-building effects and don't want to add any unnecessary toxins for my body to have to process. This reduces the amount of nutrition that is available for rebuilding and healing. I have heard that this is a good way to slowly get used to eating meat raw though.

I eat raw hamburger and raw chicken all the time. I mentioned in the above post that in the book, "We Want To Live", Aajonus talks all about food poisoning and parasites. You always want to get your meat from local, organic, free range farms - preferably ones you can see for yourself, or are known to practice what they preach. If money is a problem, like it was for me for a long time, you can eat raw meat from the supermarket and get good results. What you want to avoid are the organ meats, and chicken, as you mentioned. I ate lots of raw hamburger with no problems from the supermarkets. I don't advise doing this if you can afford not too because of the abuse that factory farm animals suffer, not to mention all of the pollution they are creating.

Coconut oil is not the same thing as coconut butter. As I mentioned above, oils shouldn't be substituted for raw fats. Oils are solvents. I wouldn't consume more than 1 to 2 tblsp of coconut oil per day. Too much oil will dry out the skin.

Veggies like carrots and celery are best for us if they are juiced raw and fresh. Some veggies put too much strain on the system to digest. Foods like raw tomatoes, raw corn, broccoli, cauliflower, squash, and cucumbers can be eaten whole with no problems for most people. When we eat raw meat, we don't need nearly the amount of fruit and veggies for vitamins as before . Meat has an abundance of vitamins and minerals - if it isn't cooked.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 00:06
I think you take great risk eating raw meat these days. Perhaps not 40 years ago, unless it comes from a good clean organic farm. Did you see Katie Couric's report (cbs news) on her investigation to the Iowa and Illinois cattle ranches? The feed lots are loaded with MRSA, as well as many of the workers there. They will never be able to clean them out in my opinion, they need to be shut down.

Having delt with MRSA in many a patient I am extremely cautious. It is now an epidemic in the USA and most of it is coming from the community, and meat is a source... It is why the packing industry has taken to irradiating meat... another reason to say away from factory meat...

Get yourself a freezer. Arrange for a local farmer to raise a head for you antibiotic and vaccine free fed on grass only. Find someone to split it with. Choose a reputable and clean butcher. It is the best that anyone can do these days and it gives a powerful message to the farmer.

Be careful. I wish you well

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 02:49
I think you take great risk eating raw meat these days. Perhaps not 40 years ago, unless it comes from a good clean organic farm. Did you see Katie Couric's report (cbs news) on her investigation to the Iowa and Illinois cattle ranches? The feed lots are loaded with MRSA, as well as many of the workers there. They will never be able to clean them out in my opinion, they need to be shut down.

Having delt with MRSA in many a patient I am extremely cautious. It is now an epidemic in the USA and most of it is coming from the community, and meat is a source... It is why the packing industry has taken to irradiating meat... another reason to say away from factory meat...



Get yourself a freezer. Arrange for a local farmer to raise a head for you antibiotic and vaccine free fed on grass only. Find someone to split it with. Choose a reputable and clean butcher. It is the best that anyone can do these days and it gives a powerful message to the farmer.

Be careful. I wish you well

Well, you may want to read the book. As far as a freezer, all but 25% of the proteins are destroyed in frozen meat. Something else you might not know - bacteria mutates and grows out of safe ranges only on cooked, frozen, and processed meats. Bacteria only feed on dead and diseased tissues and never on live tissue, and are not the problem. The problem is caused by the toxins that create dead and diseased tissues.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 02:54
Interesting thread, I've read that eating a raw meat diet is great to reverse tooth decay as it provides the right nutrients you need to rebuild the dentin in your teeth, I've been eating a vegetarian diet for the past year but am always open to experimenting to optimise my health
got a couple questions for you
eating raw meat sounds a bit gross lol what kinds of raw meat do you find the most palatable?
where do you source the meat from, is organic from the supermarket ok or do you go direct from the farmers?
how much meat do you eat a day? is it an expensive diet to go on compared to when you were a vegetarian?
thanks
J

Hi Jayke,

My favorite is steak or hamburger from grass fed, free range, organic cattle or buffalo. It is delicious. Make sure it has never been frozen or 75% of the proteins will be useless. I eat about one pound per day, but a large man may want up to 3 lbs per day. I can't really say which is more expensive. When you are buying exotic vegetarian superfoods, that is expensive, but if you are buying quality raw seafood - yum! that is expensive too.

thewebkid
24th February 2011, 03:19
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:


Intend well being for yourself and others
Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first


You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

karelia
24th February 2011, 03:50
I'm glad you found a diet that works in an optimal way for you. That said, I believe that there is no diet that falls into the 'one-size-fits-all' category. Years ago, I read 'Eat Right for Your Type.' It explained to me why I cannot eat meat and why hubby loves meat and could never be a vegetarian. I disliked meat all my life and stopped eating it the moment parental coercion stopped by me moving away. I still don't eat meat, and even if an expert convinced me that I'll die an early death because of it, I'll prefer death over meat. For me it's a spiritual thing. I'm not able to take the responsibility for a killing.

I have, however, over the years become an informed buyer. I would have to be on the brink of utter exhaustion before I eat anything ready made, and even then it better be organically grown, or I'll just forget about eating. I do not ever buy anything that may have GM ingredients. I have cut out sugar completely; it's been at least a decade since I last bought sugar, and even then it wasn't the refined stuff, which is highly poisonous. I use raw, local honey. I've cut out grains; I do occasionally eat a slice of fresh bread (home-made) or a dish of pasta (also home-made), but that's a fairly rare occasion because I don't like feeling all sluggish as a side-effect. The only fats I use are virgin olive oil, virgin coconut oil, and butter. Milk I only drink when I find it raw, though I love making cheese out of it. ;) The meat I buy for hubby and son is ALWAYS from a local source and organically raised (no ABs, no vaccines, though the latter is not always entirely avoidable) and if it's beef or lamb, it's pastured, if chicken, truly free-ranged. I grow my own herbs, on the window sill if necessary, and during the produce season, I buy exclusively at farmers' markets and usually more than needed to preserve for the winter months (dehydrating, canning, freezing). My preferred proteins are local eggs and wild mushrooms. Next month, I'll be wild-crafting dandelion for my daily dose of greens. What I learned, over the years, is that the biggest impact diet has on my health is the fact that I switched to locally produced food. My energy levels went up, and we all started to eat less.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as long as we are aware and continue the learning path, we all find the diet that suits us best.

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 05:37
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:


Intend well being for yourself and others
Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first


You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

I agree with you completely, however I think when you are hearing the word, "primal diet", you are thinking that it is like other "diets" that give you a list of food you can eat, and a list you cannot. The primal diet does not exclude any food that nature provides. All foods are available to choose from and you are encouraged to choose the foods your body desires. The only things that the Primal diet does not include, are things that are called food that either aren't, or were at one time food, but have been changed into a non food form through processing or the addition of harmful chemicals. By definition, food is that which nourishes the body. Processed and cooked "foods" have been proven to cause disease and do not provide nourishment, therefore they are not food.

Love and Light,
Rayne

thewebkid
24th February 2011, 06:43
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:


Intend well being for yourself and others
Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first


You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

I agree with you completely, however I think when you are hearing the word, "primal diet", you are thinking that it is like other "diets" that give you a list of food you can eat, and a list you cannot. The primal diet does not exclude any food that nature provides. All foods are available to choose from and you are encouraged to choose the foods your body desires. The only things that the Primal diet does not include, are things that are called food that either aren't, or were at one time food, but have been changed into a non food form through processing or the addition of harmful chemicals. By definition, food is that which nourishes the body. Processed and cooked "foods" have been proven to cause disease and do not provide nourishment, therefore they are not food.

Love and Light,
Rayne

'cept when my diet is fueled by a savage self love and a yearning for well being, sometimes I am in a situation that calls for an enchilada which psychologically provides connection and a host of other benefits not necessarily linked to what toxins are embedded in the mexican missive.

I am not religious about anything and my nutritional foray is iterative/incremental, not sudden.

That's what works for me. The improvements in my vitality/well being by acting in accordance with that have been VAST.

Ron

modwiz
24th February 2011, 07:13
I believe we humans always have the opportunity to turn any activity into a sacred one and that our five senses provide five easy sensual paths.

I like what the teacher Jesus( I'll use that name knowing there are other variations) said about diet, (paraphrasing) "It is more important what comes out of a person (words, actions) than what goes in"(diet).

I like to think the Creator knows what is best for a form. Wanting to know more about my proper diet is as easy as looking in my mouth at the kind of teeth that are in there. Dentition, in a word.

If confused I can look into the mouths or at the skulls of other creatures of known dietary types, (carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, insectivores and primates.)

My relatively flat molars are different from the grass eaters. They are very different from the scissors-like ones of carnivore/omnivores. Almost any mouth can deal with insects.

My molars excel at turning nuts into butter and fruit into sauces. Nice big leafy greens with their stalks are well chewed with our ability to move our jaws side to side.

Like Karelia, I would be very hard pressed to make flesh a part of my diet. Hunted or harvested, (netted fish, no trawlers) wild meats could find their way into my diet but, I might not thrive and choose her 'cast off the body' mindset.

Having said that I will end by referring back to what Jesus said.

Ilie Pandia
24th February 2011, 08:17
People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy.

I like meat in my diet, but I find it more and more difficult to eat it. It's not because I think that I will become more spiritual if I remove meat from my food, but I am starting to have big problems with something being killed so that I can eat it...

I am still at the hypocrite level since I really enjoy a stake now and then... but as I've said it's becoming more and more difficult.

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 11:20
First thing first people forget that we live in a holographic universe which means everything always has been there for us!
Second where genetically altered to make belief things we see with our own eyes and made extra weak as well (They change the design so its difficult to go off meat and they have most people mind controlled with there falls knowledge). There people on the planet who do not eat meat for generations and there healthy
.
We normally do not kill for food and because that's a belief system(Darwin primate diet BS ) If you do not think this true "Not my problem".
There two types of diets .. your ether have spiritual diet or Draconian Diet! (Co Creator vs Destroyer)

---->The problem is not that you are eating meat it is that you belief you need it!!!, why because you co create the lie. <-----

Another thing I picked out the foods my self which I found good to consume not that I follow a preset diet, because its for every one different and I mean NOT including the draconian belief diet.
And if you miss something in your diet you will get sick and this is not because your where not eating meat that's a make belief!!!

Conclusion get all the knowledge you can get from raw nutritional foods and get detoxed!! (Detox alone is not enough)
(And don't think if purchased something that it contains the active working substance, because you fooled again). A lot of people have purchased a thing they needed but never where consuming what they had.

Example there is a miss understanding that Raw Cacao is not good for you and the people who report this, are reporting that they have the same effects when drinking coffee. Conclusion you have purchased a raw product that was not RAW. (This is because of corruption and its very high). Also I check if the raw seeds sprout I have purchased !!!

Professor
24th February 2011, 12:46
I thought that perhaps I should share my personal experiences along this line of thought. I grew up n a very small rural family farm setting. Fresh meat was always a focus of each meal, whether from hunted wildlife or butchered domesticated animals. From the first moment that I can recall I felt it was wrong to kill other animals to eat. But, of course, I went along with the family pressure.

I'm not a religious or spiritual person in the traditional sense of those, though I have survived many attempts to convert me into one! However, I do believe that I have an inner sense of right and wrong. When I reached 13 years of age I had a very strong deep feeling inside that it was time to end my hypocracy and publically stated my intent to follow a vegetarian diet henceforth. My family thought I was pretty weird, but went along with my decision. I've never eaten meat of any sort since that time and now I am into my 6th decade. I have not followed any extreme diet - far from it. I believe that vegetarians can eat as unhealthily as carnivores and I have often done so. (Hopefully doing better now.) But I have always been quite healthy and happy.

I believe that the problems people have with diet are completely caused by the quality of the food and not the type of foods. GMOs, processing, etc. all contribute to poor health and food allergies. I have known many people with food allergies - I believe that most go unrecognized as such and diets and treatments change but rarely reach to the core issue of healthy problems. I sense that most of us here agree these are problems, but I believe they are THE PROBLEM.

I chose vegetarianism because I have a strong personal conviction that it would be wrong for me to take the life of another animal merely to continue mine when it is an unnecessary act. In the instance of a violent threat from another animal, I might see it the right path to react in order to protect my life or that of my family - but even then I would be troubled by that decision and might decide against it. I really find it difficult to accept that my life is any more important than the life of any other animal. I eat plants to survive and in return will one day feed them. This seems to be the natural way to me.

I found it interesting to read comments on this thread about the health of vegetarians. My experience has been completely at odds with many of the mentions above. In my life I have known many vegetarians and vegans and almost without exception they have been healthier than the carnivores I know. Admittedly, most of the carnivores I know and have known have not followed a very good diet - falling prey to the things we all seem to agree are bad in our diets - food additives, unnatural processing, GMOs, etc.

I choose vegetarianism and have found it works for me in all aspects of my life and development as an individual. Sometimes I wonder whether this choice might enhance the curbing of some of the uncontrolled aggressive tendencies we humans seem to exhibit.

Just my life, my experience, my thoughts. We all have those...

Peace

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 13:14
The human alimentary tract most resembles that of a rat or pig. Scavengers. At that is what we were early in our history before we learned agriculture. Not very flattering I know.....

As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless.

Once I stopped attaching guilt to everythign I put in my mouth, my food stopped punishing me and I stopped expecting my ass to expand everytime I ate. So it did. I was creating those conditions based on beliefs imposed on me. I had a lot of artifically imposed negative false values imposed on my southern belle family who were very much into the Gone With the Wind diet: Eating is unfeminine. Don't be seen eating in public, and anything expressed on your plate must be dainty, and don't finish your portions so every one will see how dainty you are.

Those who believe that our food affects us on a core spiritual level have bought into just another matrix game. I can't recall a single philosophy or religion that doesn't state that things of the material world have little importance. That includes food. How we allow us to effect us is a different matter. Yes our food challenges are illusionary but until we reach that threshold they are very real to us. Food does carry energetic values to it. I'd rather consume a deer that has had a happy wild deer life than a cow that has had miserable conditions imposed on it but there that to is an illusion that I hope to rise above some day.

The whole food issue is a matrix game, and I know that once I work more and more on the illusions I've bought, into the less issue food will become.

But in the meantime we can have a comfortable illusion life or we can have a miserable one. Until we reach that threshold I suggest people do what makes them most comfortable. Our spiritual journeys don't have to be made more onerous than they already are by buying into beliefs that have no meaning to the spirit in the first place. No of course spirit doesnt' eat meat. It doesn't eat anything Godly or Draconian or anything in between.

It's much easier to reach that threshold of seeing beyond illusions if the vessel we've projected around ourselves isn't in pain. Maybe we will all be able to reach that place where our bodies are no longer affected by the illusions but until that time its probably better that we focus on what we are dealing with now, rather than creating more beliefs around that which is already a pestersome illusionary reality.

Muzz
24th February 2011, 14:38
Hi folks

Any food experts out there? Whats members thoughts on The Paleolithic Diet, Im thinking of giving this a go maybe one day a week to start with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnGNZ6RDjlg

http://www.paleofood.com/

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 14:38
As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless.


Maybe this article gives you more of a understanding how realilty works.
http://rayelan.com/ACTIVATEDCELLULARMEMORY.htm


Holographic universe does not mean illusionary that is what you belief system tells you when you use the word "holographic". Meaning it is being projected in to reality and if reality is a hologram then its real and not illusionary. It same when you see trans dimensional being you can't touch it but it is real! go define real!

This conflict of what is real and what is not real has do that on this planet we fell below our own spiritual light (Time, not the clock!! we use to glow) that we no longer know what is real and what is not, but then again how do you define real and what does the word really mean anyway? when I talk about spirit then I talk about creational light, not destroying which folding your own energy on to your self. This Holographic reality on earth has trauma which is energy folding on to it self, its junk.(Duality is not real we created it )

What is so hard to understand that when you destroy your destroying a little bit of your self since your are expression of everything you are (Your made in the image of WHAT!! everything that exist in past the present and future what we call GOD). If you think you need to kill, guess what! you killing your self slowly bit by bit if that is the way you think). (If we go for unity you better get it otherwise your simple not here, I'm not kidding!!)

So when you read something you need to understand what the word really means and not what you belief you think it is, so that's why there is a lot of confusion when reading a sentence when you do not understand a word in it. That's why my focus was to understand what person is saying after I found out that he is speaking the truth otherwise you still spreading lies you belief in happens a lot with a lot of people.
Example They(who? for does who know this term->"") talk about "4 density" and never have taken the time what it does mean for us when we go to it and not from any other world! there is lot missing here if you do not research it further to understand things first.

Another example is try to speak a language you do not understand!! you can't till you get it then you can learn to speak it other wise your confusing, but some people try to speak it with out understanding it first.

Oh, where was I. Yeah belief systems!! and reality , What is a Draconian diet its a traumatised diet what is a spiritual diet one that does not do the other.

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 14:48
O btw it does not come from a ego-mind based !!

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 15:03
Forgive me for not responding to your post its so full of opposing core beliefs grinding against each other that I have no means to do so.

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 15:24
First of all you try to twist the meaning of me explaining how thing work so that I look like I was trying to look superior to another and it was a ego based belief system! --->


As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless. when I was just trying to explain how thing work including a link that explains it in hole other way .

And now you come with this ???
Forgive me for not responding to your post its so full of opposing core beliefs grinding against each other that I have no means to do so. and no further explaining what conflicting beliefs your talking about since I have none.

Jayke
24th February 2011, 15:39
A pestersome illusionary reality lol you just haven't joined the party yet, it's my belief that we're here to have fun, grow, evolve, create, play...if eating a diet that optimises the functioning of the body and mind allows us to achieve that more efficiently then there's nothing wrong with dedicating plenty of time to figuring out what that diet is, it's been done in the past by greater minds than ours, there are ancient scholars, spiritual masters, mathematicians that unlocked the mysteries of food and used it to create sacred meals called pulse that were used to quicken their spiritual evolution

It was anciently believed that applying sacred geometry to the amounts and choices of foods could 'unlock the mysteries' of all truths, in doing so they could learn to apply 'truest truth' in their lives bringing themselves in relationship to the whole of existance.
Pythagoras would initiate people into his school by first making them fast for fourty days and forty nights on nothing but fresh air, pure water and sunlight...should they succeed in this challenge he would welcome them into his academy and offer them a sacred meal called 'pulse phi - the meal of Hercules'.

Food has a fascinating history among the enlightened mystics of antiquity, they proposed that the living maths, sacred geometry found in food (you can clearly see the star of David on blueberries for example) would enhance life in all aspects. meals combined with the correct phi ratio were literally a mathematical formulae meant to improve health and cognitive intuition, designed to target the mind, the emotions, the physical body, personality and character for greater social interaction and ones ability to earn trust.

In my opinion the food we eat is directly related to the capacity of ones spirit, it may not matter once we leave this mortal coil but while we're here it's of paramount importance...food can be used to enhance or enslave, I choose to enhance it by paying close attention to exactly what i'm putting into this light body we all temporarily live in...the illusion is no fun if the body is falling apart right

Much love

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 15:55
A pestersome illusionary reality lol you just haven't joined the party yet,--------------------;):rofl:

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 16:18
I think you take great risk eating raw meat these days. Perhaps not 40 years ago, unless it comes from a good clean organic farm. Did you see Katie Couric's report (cbs news) on her investigation to the Iowa and Illinois cattle ranches? The feed lots are loaded with MRSA, as well as many of the workers there. They will never be able to clean them out in my opinion, they need to be shut down.

Having delt with MRSA in many a patient I am extremely cautious. It is now an epidemic in the USA and most of it is coming from the community, and meat is a source... It is why the packing industry has taken to irradiating meat... another reason to say away from factory meat...



Get yourself a freezer. Arrange for a local farmer to raise a head for you antibiotic and vaccine free fed on grass only. Find someone to split it with. Choose a reputable and clean butcher. It is the best that anyone can do these days and it gives a powerful message to the farmer.

Be careful. I wish you well

Well, you may want to read the book. As far as a freezer, all but 25% of the proteins are destroyed in frozen meat. Something else you might not know - bacteria mutates and grows out of safe ranges only on cooked, frozen, and processed meats. Bacteria only feed on dead and diseased tissues and never on live tissue, and are not the problem. The problem is caused by the toxins that create dead and diseased tissues.

Love and Light,
Rayne

So I would like to ask where do you purchase your meat? How do you certify that it is fresh and not from a death feed lot? and for how long do you store it?How do you certify that it is not treated with antibiotics? If you are purchasing organic meat how old is it before you eat it? are you raising your own meat and butchering?

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 16:18
Offer one's higher self a banana cream pie and see what sort of reaction one gets. Let me know how that works out for you.

If you're not offered an opinion from your higher self cut and paste another from the internet.

Jayke
24th February 2011, 16:26
Offer one's higher self a banana cream pie and see what sort of reaction one gets. Let me know how that works out for you.

If you're not offered an opinion from your higher self cut and paste another from the internet.

Banana...GOOOOD!
Cream...GOOOOD!
Pie...no thankyou, pastry doesn't sit well with me

DianeKJ
24th February 2011, 16:29
This is very interesting and I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, and in kind manners no less :)

I am reading it all and many interesting points have been brought to the surface for my consideration, even though I'm a vegetarian, and will remain so. In light of that though, I do believe for me that I need to reconsider how much and what types of grains I am eating- as I believe it is an issue for me. I've decided to cut out most grains, (aside from quinoa) and all sugar and dairy for a bit to see how I feel. I've come to realize that I have gotten somewhat lazy about what I am consuming. Organic sugar is still sugar and I believe that is a huge problem for me.

Thank you for this thread and all the great information it has provided me.
-Di

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 16:30
I believe we humans always have the opportunity to turn any activity into a sacred one and that our five senses provide five easy sensual paths.

I like what the teacher Jesus( I'll use that name knowing there are other variations) said about diet, (paraphrasing) "It is more important what comes out of a person (words, actions) than what goes in"(diet).

I like to think the Creator knows what is best for a form. Wanting to know more about my proper diet is as easy as looking in my mouth at the kind of teeth that are in there. Dentition, in a word.

If confused I can look into the mouths or at the skulls of other creatures of known dietary types, (carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, insectivores and primates.)

My relatively flat molars are different from the grass eaters. They are very different from the scissors-like ones of carnivore/omnivores. Almost any mouth can deal with insects.

My molars excel at turning nuts into butter and fruit into sauces. Nice big leafy greens with their stalks are well chewed with our ability to move our jaws side to side.

Like Karelia, I would be very hard pressed to make flesh a part of my diet. Hunted or harvested, (netted fish, no trawlers) wild meats could find their way into my diet but, I might not thrive and choose her 'cast off the body' mindset.

Having said that I will end by referring back to what Jesus said.

Hi! I love everything the teacher called Jesus said, and I quote him often in my website. I agree, it is what comes out of our mouths that corrupts us, and this is why I said in my original post that the first thing I discovered on my path toward healing was that my sicknesses were caused on the spiritual level. Then I described how when we have had a spiritual sickness for long, it goes physical, "as above, so below". That can sometimes require that we take physical steps to correct those problems. Maybe my faith wasn't large enough - that is a huge possibility. So, in that case, a physical approach was necessary.

I think the majority of people have spiritual ailments that have gone physical and might need to take physical action in their recovery.

I believe that a "Master" could eat poison, and transmute it to healthy food, and I would like to attain that level someday. For now, I am not there.

But we are kind of talking apples and oranges here because Jesus wasn't referring to any particular diet. He was talking, I believe, about food sacrificed to idols. He told his followers not to feel guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief upon.

Fruits are primarily cleansers. They detoxify, and hydrate us, provide sugars, and enzymes. Too much sweet fruit causes people to be overly emotional and also causes tooth decay. I eat fruit, but in moderation. No more than 1 piece per day. I had some tooth and gum problems when I was a vegetarian that healed when I began eating raw meat and raw fats.

I see what you are saying about the teeth, however, none of us on the primal diet have any trouble chewing raw fish and meat. It is easier to chew than many nuts, seeds, etc. We don't have fangs for ripping into and killing a running animal. We don't need them because the creator gave us hands that can use tools to bring down an animal. We can build traps, shoot an arrow, etc.

As for nuts, I will quote Aajonus V. here because he can explain it better than I - "Even if raw, nuts and seeds are indigestible in the human system because they contain phytic acid that prevents proper protein digestion and absorption. Most people can digest only 1 cup per week if they eat them in combination with raw fat and unheated honey. That combination neutralizes phytic acid." Even so, nuts and seeds if eaten in this combination too often will cause neurological detoxification and sleep disturbances.

I know this to be true especially for me. I cannot handle any nuts at all without getting an upset stomach. Also keep in mind that most disease begins in the digestive tract, and physical symptoms caused by an inability to digest something may appear anywhere in the body. So, if you say to me that you can can digest a pound of nuts per day, I will ask you if you have any physical ailments at all. Do you have signs of aging? My signs of aging began to reverse after beginning the raw Primal diet involving raw meat and raw fat.

So, on your diet of fruit and nuts, first my teeth would fall out, then I would die from malnutrition caused by the inability to digest all of the nuts and seeds I would have to eat to get enough calories!

Leafy greens are good when you desire them, but my Creator didn't make me happy to eat leafy greens all the time.

The cool thing about the Primal diet is that you can trust your bodies cravings. When it craves dairy, it wants it raw. When it craves meat, it really wants it raw. When it craves sugar, it wants raw fruit. Processed, and cooked foods are a cruel trick to play on the body. The taste buds are satisfied yet the nutritional needs are not. This is why the foods that people crave the most, make them ill- they are satisfying the cravings with food imposters!

Look into more than just our teeth when you are trying to see what the Creator meant for us to eat. He gave us our tastes and desires so that our body can tell us what it needs.

Also look at what is the easiest for us to provide for ourselves. Our creator didn't intend for us to struggle, and labor to provide food. The story of Cain and Abel might be trying to tell us this as well.

Having a small free range happy herd and some chickens and bees easily supplies food for a family or tribe. We can easily grow a nice amount of other fruits and veggies, and eat those IN SEASON. Eating local and in season is very important for health.

Meat is a very nutrient dense food that supplies nearly every vitamin and mineral we need. When eaten raw it digests quickly and easily - in even the most debilitated people. Raw eggs are like this too - even easier to digest.

Also keep in mind that ALL of the information out there from "authorities" who say that meat and fat are bad for you, are basing all of their information on studies involving ONLY COOKED meats and fats. In the body, raw meat and cooked meat, raw fat and cooked fat, are as different as night and day.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Jayke
24th February 2011, 16:30
would eating insects be as beneficial as eating meat, just looking at the diet of gorillas and other primates and they mostly eat leaves, fruit and bugs...since they have the most similar DNA to us out of the entire animal kingdom it would be feasible that bugs would benefit us alot as well since gorillas and things have the one of the highest power to weight ratio of all animals

Jayke
24th February 2011, 16:39
Rayne T has been sharing experiences on the raw primal diet vs vegetarianism thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14925-The-Raw-Primal-Diet-vs-Vegetarianism) it seems similar to the paleolithic diet so could be of interest to you

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 16:40
Offer one's higher self a banana cream pie and see what sort of reaction one gets. Let me know how that works out for you.

If you're not offered an opinion from your higher self cut and paste another from the internet.

Banana...GOOOOD!
Cream...GOOOOD!
Pie...no thankyou, pastry doesn't sit well with me

Ha Ha! This is exactly what I just pointed out in a previous post. We CAN TRUST our bodies cravings IF we supply it raw. When you crave a banana cream pie, your body really wants a banana, and some raw cream. Raw fruit eaten with raw fat is a wonderful combination for the body. That's why we crave foods like strawberries and cream, or strawberry short cake, or fruity milk shakes, etc.

Love and Light,
Rayne

¤=[Post Update]=¤


would eating insects be as beneficial as eating meat, just looking at the diet of gorillas and other primates and they mostly eat leaves, fruit and bugs...since they have the most similar DNA to us out of the entire animal kingdom it would be feasible that bugs would benefit us alot as well since gorillas and things have the one of the highest power to weight ratio of all animals

There is a simple answer to that Jayke - do you crave bugs?????? I don't, lol and I'm not about to pursue that unless I am starving. I will say that there is a lady that lives out here near me in the AZ high desert who ate nothing but bugs for a year as an experiment, and thrived!

Love and Light, Rayne

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 16:40
The human alimentary tract most resembles that of a rat or pig. Scavengers. At that is what we were early in our history before we learned agriculture. Not very flattering I know.....

As far as the Saintly diet vs the Draconian diet...if this is a holographic universe and illusionary in nature, then the concept of one diet being more godly and the other being more reptilian is another illusionary concept probably ego-mind based to give those who are scrambling for an identity a sense of superiority over those who realize that its not food that is the issue, its our belief systems attached to it. We are projecting our belief systems to create reality. With the ego mind. Our ego mind can praise or punish us. I hardly think altering ones diet is going to alter their Higher Self. It basically percieves such things as being meaningless.

Once I stopped attaching guilt to everythign I put in my mouth, my food stopped punishing me and I stopped expecting my ass to expand everytime I ate. So it did. I was creating those conditions based on beliefs imposed on me. I had a lot of artifically imposed negative false values imposed on my southern belle family who were very much into the Gone With the Wind diet: Eating is unfeminine. Don't be seen eating in public, and anything expressed on your plate must be dainty, and don't finish your portions so every one will see how dainty you are.

Those who believe that our food affects us on a core spiritual level have bought into just another matrix game. I can't recall a single philosophy or religion that doesn't state that things of the material world have little importance. That includes food. How we allow us to effect us is a different matter. Yes our food challenges are illusionary but until we reach that threshold they are very real to us. Food does carry energetic values to it. I'd rather consume a deer that has had a happy wild deer life than a cow that has had miserable conditions imposed on it but there that to is an illusion that I hope to rise above some day.

The whole food issue is a matrix game, and I know that once I work more and more on the illusions I've bought, into the less issue food will become.

But in the meantime we can have a comfortable illusion life or we can have a miserable one. Until we reach that threshold I suggest people do what makes them most comfortable. Our spiritual journeys don't have to be made more onerous than they already are by buying into beliefs that have no meaning to the spirit in the first place. No of course spirit doesnt' eat meat. It doesn't eat anything Godly or Draconian or anything in between.

It's much easier to reach that threshold of seeing beyond illusions if the vessel we've projected around ourselves isn't in pain. Maybe we will all be able to reach that place where our bodies are no longer affected by the illusions but until that time its probably better that we focus on what we are dealing with now, rather than creating more beliefs around that which is already a pestersome illusionary reality.

Universal Law

Death gives life
Life gives rebirth
Rebirth gives movement
Movement gives change
Change gives chaos, is invevitable and leads to death
Chaos gives death
Death gives Life

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 16:43
[QUOTE=modwiz;153978]IAlso keep in mind that ALL of the information out there from "authorities" who say that meat and fat are bad for you, are basing all of their information on studies involving ONLY COOKED meats and fats. In the body, raw meat and cooked meat, raw fat and cooked fat, are as different as night and day.

Love and Light,
Rayne

But if you look at the studies of Drs Eades, authors of "Protien Power" you will see that even cooked meat in the right balance with veggies, without carbs leads to a greatly improved health for many.

Jayke
24th February 2011, 16:49
There is a simple answer to that Jayke - do you crave bugs?????? I don't, lol and I'm not about to pursue that unless I am starving. I will say that there is a lady that lives out here near me in the AZ high desert who ate nothing but bugs for a year as an experiment, and thrived!

Love and Light, Rayne

Lol I'm sure i could develop a taste for em if the situation arose, would thwart the rulers of the worlds plans to starve us all if we could just go into the garden and dig up a few worms lol but yeah, can't say i've had any cravings for that as of yet :)

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 16:52
[QUOTE=modwiz;153978]IAlso keep in mind that ALL of the information out there from "authorities" who say that meat and fat are bad for you, are basing all of their information on studies involving ONLY COOKED meats and fats. In the body, raw meat and cooked meat, raw fat and cooked fat, are as different as night and day.

Love and Light,
Rayne

But if you look at the studies of Drs Eades, authors of "Protien Power" you will see that even cooked meat in the right balance with veggies, without carbs leads to a greatly improved health for many.



From my personal experience - I was dying and I couldn't digest anything without getting a severe reaction. Cooked meats were the end for me but not nearly as bad of an effect as cooked vegetables and grains - so there is something there. When I began eating raw meat, that changed everything for me. My body took it well, and began to heal.

Many others with "incurable" diseases have this same experience when they begin eating raw meat. There is a reason for this and to me it's saying that raw meat is far more nutritious and easy on the body than cooked meat. Besides for the destroyed proteins, the cooked fat in the cooked meat is very harmful. I wish everyone could read "We Want To Live", and then discuss this. My fingers are falling off, lol.

Love and Light, Rayne

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 16:55
This is very interesting and I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, and in kind manners no less

I am reading it all and many interesting points have been brought to the surface for my consideration, even though I'm a vegetarian, and will remain so. In light of that though, I do believe for me that I need to reconsider how much and what types of grains I am eating- as I believe it is an issue for me. I've decided to cut out most grains, (aside from quinoa) and all sugar and dairy for a bit to see how I feel. I've come to realize that I have gotten somewhat lazy about what I am consuming. Organic sugar is still sugar and I believe that is a huge problem for me.

Thank you for this thread and all the great information it has provided me.
-Di

I don't have any grains in my diet, only recently ate some bread with cheese that's it. Thing that are processed and heated have no spiritual life in it any more, this is what you can say traumatised food when you consume it will effect you.
I do not consume any sugar only fruits/veggies that contains it, so no added sugar. Do you have Himalayan crystal salt in your diet , because most people miss minerals they never had in there lives(so you will get sick eventually.
In case of mine it helped me off sugar addiction long ago, I no longer wanted sweet thing that where processed.

Fredkc
24th February 2011, 16:57
Personally, after trying several disciplines, I have been following a very strict regimen for 3 decades.

I eat anything that doesn't eat me, first.

(in moderation, of course)
Fred

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 16:58
I would like to ask a question to all of you who say that killing an animal for food isn't spiritual. Why do you say this, and why do you feel it is wrong to kill an animal for food? The creator made the animals to kill and eat each other, and put us here with and as part of them. Many native tribes were very spiritual yet they killed and ate. They gave thanks to the Creator and to the animal for their food. My Creator gave me this Primal diet to save my life. I would have died. Would I have been more spiritual to have died instead? I don't think so.

Love and Light, Rayne

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 16:58
btw
For making my food I use a blender and a juicer it very use full to transform your diet to a healthier diet!

Rayne T.
24th February 2011, 17:01
This is very interesting and I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, and in kind manners no less

I am reading it all and many interesting points have been brought to the surface for my consideration, even though I'm a vegetarian, and will remain so. In light of that though, I do believe for me that I need to reconsider how much and what types of grains I am eating- as I believe it is an issue for me. I've decided to cut out most grains, (aside from quinoa) and all sugar and dairy for a bit to see how I feel. I've come to realize that I have gotten somewhat lazy about what I am consuming. Organic sugar is still sugar and I believe that is a huge problem for me.

Thank you for this thread and all the great information it has provided me.
-Di

I don't have any grains in my diet, only recently ate some bread with cheese that's it. Thing that are processed and heated have no spiritual life in it any more, this is what you can say traumatised food when you consume it will effect you.
I do not consume any sugar only fruits/veggies that contains it, so no added sugar. Do you have Himalayan crystal salt in your diet , because most people miss minerals they never had in there lives(so you will get sick eventually.
In case of mine it helped me off sugar addiction long ago, I no longer wanted sweet thing that where processed.

I use Himala Salt lightly - it's the best!

conk
24th February 2011, 17:05
Very good information in this thread! Thank you all.

I've read the books referenced by the OP and they are quite intriguing. Very interesting. I've been trying to embrace this raw diet for some time. I wish it were easier to find more varied raw foods, like butter and milk for example. I dehydrate wild venison at a very low temperature, as to keep it essentially raw. I'm going to start marinating some of my grass fed meats overnight. This will 'cook' them and make them more palatable. Ground up, it is easier to eat with some kind of sauce.

Many vegetarians experience what's been termed "failure to thrive". Some nutrients are found only in animal products.

One more important point to make. Our older dogs experienced profound improvement in their health after we started them on 100% raw diets. Raw, grass-fed meats, with a sprinkling of green plant material. Wild animals eat vegetation when they eat the intestines of the prey.

Shelltower
24th February 2011, 17:11
I have been a vegetarian since I was 17 , maintaining the same weight ...fasting periodically to detox...I am seeing first hand what the food supply is doing to peoples bodies....they are blowing up like balloons....whether you are a meat eater or a vegetarian...you have to just listen to your body about what it needs....I am not type A about it either...lately i have been eating the fat off what is being cooked by the rest of my family and it tastes good!!! WHo cares really....just listen at that moment and ask yourself if its good for you, then eat it....be your own kinesthesiologist...your own dowsing instrument.....just stay away from the artifial sweeteners and high fructose corn syrup....
EAT TO LIVE, DONT LIVE TO EAT

Jayke
24th February 2011, 17:12
unrefined sea salt is vital for proper functioning of the human body, so vital in fact that the romans used to pay their soldiers in salt hence the expression "worth ones salt"
the body needs salt to break down the carbohydrates in vegetables and regulate different processes in the body. The water to salt ratio outside of the cells is the same as the water to salt ratio of the ocean, we didn't evolve out of the ocean, we just took it with us...salt is key to living a healthy vegetarian lifestyle IMO

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 17:15
I would like to ask a question to all of you who say that killing an animal for food isn't spiritual. Why do you say this, and why do you feel it is wrong to kill an animal for food? The creator made the animals to kill and eat each other, and put us here with and as part of them. Many native tribes were very spiritual yet they killed and ate. They gave thanks to the Creator and to the animal for their food. My Creator gave me this Primal diet to save my life. I would have died. Would I have been more spiritual to have died instead? I don't think so.

Love and Light, Rayne

again the Universal Laws

Death gives life
Life gives rebirth
Rebirth gives movement
Movement gives change
Change gives chaos, is invevitable and leads to death
Chaos gives death
Death gives Life

so I see nothing in error regarding spirit
in your choices.

I think you did exactly what you needed to do
though following gut instinct.
There are many ways to heal
as well as many types of poisons in foods these days.
Trying to sort it all out is a tremendous work

The human body is also tremendously resiliant
and will heal if give correct attention but
what is correct for one person is not necessarily correct
for another.

Aside from significant emotional imbalances
and self degragation
the largest challenges for most people
at least in the US are nutrient starvation
the presence of chemicals in their food and water
the excess use of heavy denatured carb meals
and the use of legal and illegal drugs (generally excluded marijuana)

A diet change can fix most of it
as well as altering an erronous belief system
that is causing disease
You obviously picked a diet change that worked for you.

Peace of Mind
24th February 2011, 17:56
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 18:20
I'm glad to hear that plants don't die when we consume them. No risk of consuming death there.

I always wondered who drew the moral line in the sand that killing a plant was okay cause I'm begining to surmise that plants don't have to experience death in order for us to consume them. No risk of composing a death energy there but killing an animal is an act of moral terpitude.You kill a plant and eat it its okay. But kill an animal and eat it and we are consuming death. Sounds like human kind had a hand in writing what appears to be yet another set of counter conflicting beliefs. I'm sure whomever made this rather bizarre opposing values statement will revert unwittingly to the 'death is only an illusion' statement later on down the road. Apparently death is only illusionary when we aren't eating. Stick something in your mouth and all universal laws and precepts are suspended for a while.


Are we POSITIVE that the plants we consume were harvested in morally conscious way? Positive that the apples and oranges that we eat, their trees didn't displace some natural occurring plant life? Or animal life? That our wheat fields didn't crowd out packs of pre existing animals that eventually died off because their natural habitat was taken over by organic growers. Are we positive that any food source vegan or meat has been handled in a precisely morally and spiritually correct way as it makes it way from source to mouth. I doubt it. Death occurs over and over to get that plant in your mouth before that plant actually dies. There's no way to avoid killing something be it an animal or a plant to sustain us. Most people who have hysterics over the killing of trees are typically living in a home that's major composition is a tree.

I'd be very very careful of attaching judgments to what people are eating for that reason. The harvesting of many of the plants we eat have caused death somewhere down the road. The harvesting of morally correct plants for human consumption may very well be taking it out of the mouth of animal that depends on it. If one is compelled to do it for physical health then by all means....but attaching moral and spiritual values on food is self serving. The only person it serves is one's self.

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 18:22
Death gives life
Life gives rebirth
Rebirth gives movement
Movement gives change
Change gives chaos, is invevitable and leads to death
Chaos gives death
Death gives Life

This is not Universal law, this is the law of the Masters of chaos or the PTB.

Arrowwind
24th February 2011, 18:27
Death gives life
Life gives rebirth
Rebirth gives movement
Movement gives change
Change gives chaos, is invevitable and leads to death
Chaos gives death
Death gives Life

This is not Universal law, this is the law of the Masters of chaos or the PTB.

Such is your opinion, but I see it written in nature.

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 18:30
Re: The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism


Quote Originally Posted by Mu2143 View Post
Death gives life
Life gives rebirth
Rebirth gives movement
Movement gives change
Change gives chaos, is invevitable and leads to death
Chaos gives death
Death gives Life

This is not Universal law, this is the law of the Masters of chaos or the PTB.
Such is your opinion, but I see it written in nature.


Is it??? or do I see a relation between your belief system for what is happening in the Middle East !

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 18:37
Rayne said: But we are kind of talking apples and oranges here because Jesus wasn't referring to any particular diet. He was talking, I believe, about food sacrificed to idols. He told his followers not to feel guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief on.

Precisely. Putting moral judgments on food for spiritual reasons is idolatry.

HORIZONS
24th February 2011, 18:37
I have a very high nutrition/mostly raw diet, but I would never give the full details, because I think the only diet that works for EVERYONE is the following:


Intend well being for yourself and others
Intend deeply to connect to your deepest truth - especially the needs of your body
Follow this intention into nutritional studies/practices that flow well personally for you - knowing that changes will be awkward or uncomfortable at first


You may not gain access to certain nutritional clubs, but you will come away with a profound sense of self love, trust, confidence, INTUITION, and a happy springy body because you developed a relationship with IT and not a vicarious relationship with trusting someone else to provide the dietary semantics. I cull my food intake regime from a number of sources coupled with my own inner guidance.

Plus your body's needs will shift over time and you will have the sense of how to adjust diet according to your own circumstances.

Great Post - double thanks for saying so!!!

Jayke
24th February 2011, 18:46
The only person it serves is one's self.

And which part of ones self might that be?

personally i think it's fine to be completely self centered, being centered in ones self is an admirable quality, especially if that self happens to be ones highest self

If that makes any sense

Mu2143
24th February 2011, 18:49
Rayne said: But we are kind of talking apples and oranges here because Jesus wasn't referring to any particular diet. He was talking, I believe, about food sacrificed to idols. He told his followers not to feel guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief on.

Precisely. Putting moral judgments on food for spiritual reasons is idolatry.
You mean when I have no food and almost dying form hunger and I have a gun and see you, I blow you brains out so I can eat you raw and call it a spiritual diet and feeling not guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief on which this is <---:rofl:

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 18:51
Usually the ego self. The higher self doesn't put that sort of attachments on things.

I completely understand what you mean about SELF centered. I try to remain SELF-centered (and sometimes fail) rather than self-centered. If you know what I mean. ;)SELF (big self) self (lower self)

Muzz
24th February 2011, 18:55
Thanks Jayke just seen it. Mods if your readin no point havin this one as well sorry to cause you work.

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 18:58
How about when strangle you for breathing and wasting the air which is a precious resource given off by my precious plant life. After all I can't blot you out of existence I'm only changing the circumstances of your existence from a physical one to one that is not. In fact I'd be doing you a favor by untethering you from the miseries of the material world and sending you on to a better existence.

And my ego will justify me strangling you to death in the same irrational way that you have just justified blowing my head off.

And then I'd go off and brag about how killing with my primal bare hands is more...uhm....primal than some sissy gun that only weak simpering cowards would use because they were afraid of getting close to death and have to do it from a safe distance.

Yeah..

That's what my ego would do.

In actuality the only difference here is that I would KNOW that I'm acting from an ego place...





You mean when I have no food and almost dying form hunger and I have a gun and see you, I blow you brains out so I can eat you raw and call it a spiritual diet and feeling not guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief on which this is.

Peace of Mind
24th February 2011, 19:06
When a plant/apple or orange screams in pain I will gladly reconsider. When it tries to run away from me…I will reconsider. When its nutrients clearly show my body that it’s not for me…I will reconsider….just like I did for the sentient beings that clearly showed me exactly how it feels. Plants/Earth has an exchange contract with Animals, give and take. Carbon for oxygen, our waste for food. Vegetation has been here longer than man, its part of the Earth, if it had a problem with us eating it…it would have evolve some sought of protection a long time ago…just like any other species that felt threatened. It’s not hard to tell, or see what’s going on in our times…at least for me its not…

I will gladly stop eating (I hardly eat now, btw) if what I ate didn’t want to be eating. Destroying life to sustain my own is not what I want to do. It’s not right. In fact I’m prepared to die before I start eating something that wants to live. I wonder how many are willing to do that…

Life here has great potential but it’s not all that beautiful due to the inhumane practices of man. And, I have no problem making an early exit from this place for that very reason... But, until then, I will gladly fight for those that can’t fight for themselves...

I know this place is temporary schooling and I intend on passing with flying colors…or in the least experience the beauty of all sentient beings while I still have the chance to…

Peace

Jayke
24th February 2011, 19:17
You mean when I have no food and almost dying form hunger and I have a gun and see you, I blow you brains out so I can eat you raw and call it a spiritual diet and feeling not guilty for eating something that someone else put some kind of crazy belief on which this is <---:rofl:

LMAO

So where do we draw the line...

I can't eat anything that looks really cute when it's a baby, anything that makes you go 'awww' when you see em running around or stood there in a field. Lambs for example, when you see them running around together before they get their tail docked and then they all suddenly stop and stare at you, then off they go playing again. There's no way I can see that and think to myself "I'm gonna kill me one of them"...they're just too frickin cute.

small baby fish on the other hand, no emotional connection with them, I'd be happy with them on the plate...although I don't feel like i'd need to go that far as I find enough nourishment from my fruit, veg, legumes and dairy to keep me feeling spritely

Limor Wolf
24th February 2011, 20:07
peace of mind originally wrote:

I will gladly stop eating (I hardly eat now, btw) if what I ate didn’t want to be eating. Destroying life to sustain my own is not what I want to do. It’s not right. In fact I’m prepared to die before I start eating something that wants to live. I wonder how many are willing to do that

i am with you peace of mind.i am vegeterian from the age of 10.the most wonderfull thing i had done in my life! and will sign for it all over again.i am not able to consume any creature that was terrorized and were Mercilessly slaughtered (and there is no such thing as compassion way to take life).

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp.4 out of 13 of my grandmother's brothers managed to survive.let me tell you,it is One of the most terrible atrocities Of the human race.

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope.it seems that even being an aware and compassionate person have its limits when concerning 'diets' and 'whats best for me'.
sorry if what i wrote sounds harsh,but thats one of the pains that i carry most of my life.
and if i carry it,what would THEY have to say about it,if only they could talk..

We are not the strongest link in the food chain as you well know these days,and i can not avoid reflecting if ever we will be the ones to be on the 'being conusumed' side of things and not the 'consumers'.what a lesson that will be.


i would very much recommand watching this movie (if you dare to) with open mind and heart,just as we do on any other material of camelot/avalon


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#

p.s

plants are just as alive as animals.but animals are an aware beings and thats the whole story.

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 20:16
Apples and Oranges screaming. Hmmm....

Well now if they are long dead before they are consumed I'd hazard one would not hear something like that.

While fruits remain on a tree, consciousness harvesting might offset any objections an apple has. And they object . That is why you are often times directed to pick elsewhere when using that means of harvesting. The plant will let you know what it wants to give up. ...and what it wants to reserve. Unless one is using CH you've stolen the plants ability to make the decision in the matter. Plants communicate very well...while their still living that is.

That is to say if one left it at that and explored the differences in consciousness and sentiency....and the expressions thereof sentience.

I'd suggest that plants may not have the sort of sentiency that humans have...which causes attachments to the material world.

nearing
24th February 2011, 21:05
9eagle9:

In actuality the only difference here is that I would KNOW that I'm acting from an ego place...

Okay, THAT made me laugh. :bounce:

Peace of Mind
24th February 2011, 21:16
peace of mind originally wrote:

I will gladly stop eating (I hardly eat now, btw) if what I ate didn’t want to be eating. Destroying life to sustain my own is not what I want to do. It’s not right. In fact I’m prepared to die before I start eating something that wants to live. I wonder how many are willing to do that

i am with you peace of mind.i am vegeterian from the age of 10.the most wonderfull thing i had done in my life! and will sign for it all over again.i am not able to consume any creature that was terrorized and were Mercilessly slaughtered (and there is no such thing as compassion way to take life).

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp.4 out of 13 of my grandmother's brothers managed to survive.let me tell you,it is One of the most terrible atrocities Of the human race.

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope.it seems that even being an aware and compassionate person have its limits when concerning 'diets' and 'whats best for me'.
sorry if what i wrote sounds harsh,but thats one of the pains that i carry most of my life.
and if i carry it,what would THEY have to say about it,if only they could talk..

We are not the strongest link in the food chain as you well know these days,and i can not avoid reflecting if ever we will be the ones to be on the 'being conusumed' side of things and not the 'consumers'.what a lesson that will be.


i would very much recommand watching this movie (if you dare to) with open mind and heart,just as we do on any other material of camelot/avalon


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142#

p.s

plants are just as alive as animals.but animals are an aware beings and thats the whole story.

Since 10 years old? I wish I would have started around that age or earlier. Glad to see you are still sticking with it…you saved a bunch of animals (realize it or not). I think people are starting to understand the damage human’s do to this world. We are waking up slowly but surely.

I’m sorry about the holocaust, that was some sad times. I would never want anyone to witness or go through that again.

Peace

Peace of Mind
24th February 2011, 21:19
Oh, to add to the topic...

Every night around midnight I mediate in my backyard…no matter what the weather is like. Over the last few months (maybe year) I’ve notice the curiosity in the animals back there. The stray cats circle me and sometimes brush up against my leg. A raccoon wasn’t even hesitant to sniff my legs. I remember a brown bird spending the night in my backyard. Originally I thought the bird was sick and planed to take it to a vet but I gave it a piece of Danish and left it alone…in the morning it was still there. So, I grabbed my cat carrier to put the bird inside but it flew away. I also get visits from a bright red bird. It sings the loveliest songs. Even bugs land on my lap and stare at me. In all these occurrences I talk to these species just like I talk to people. They are amazing.

I also talk to the plants in my garden along with my apple and cherry tree. My neighbor haves a hugh towering raspberry tree that always drop berries in my yard. When I speak to them they reply thru the wind and a calming vibration in the ground.

When spring comes around, I will ask them again if they mind providing sustenance for me…

Peace

Jetsam
24th February 2011, 21:31
I became a vegetarian only recently (stupidly enough), and I'm very glad I did. It's so dumb actually, whole your life you are pressured into eating meat, and not once you think about it; until you wake up.

I cannot imagine hurting an animal, even it was for my health.
Science, when used correctly could help with the deficiencies...

Limor Wolf
24th February 2011, 21:45
9eagle9 originally posted:

"Apples and Oranges screaming. Hmmm....

Well now if they are long dead before they are consumed I'd hazard one would not hear something like that".

eagle,that being said,it reminded me ( and i hope its o.k with you all to take a little humor break and allow me to add a little balance to my former response)

ENJOY! (sorry Rayne.t a little bit off-topic, but considering how this discussion has developed about fruits,vagetables and consciousness ... :)

take a look :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PlmKWi1DY&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km8syQ3cQjA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPvt96wt2w&feature=channel

egss have consciousness too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Cfg3swvbc&feature=related

next time you eat marshmallow think about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=playnmJB_TI&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEiL3y65Xv0&feature=related

dont say i didnt warn you...

:-)

Limor

Mike
24th February 2011, 22:46
hi Rayne,

thanks for sharing. i've also incorporated many of aajonus' teachings, though i wish raw milk and butter were a little easier to come by and a little less expensive(its an hour trip to the nearest farm authorized to sell raw, and $8 a gallon for milk). raw meat was a little tough at first, but i've learned to love a good steak tartar dish.

the spiritual aspect can be chopped up a million ways(no pun intended) but it basically comes down to this: if you're sick enough, and if you'd tried everything under the sun, and if you're dieing, you will do what must be done, whether it involves eating raw meat or concrete. i speak from experience. i should have died years ago. raw meat was one of the things that saved my life.

of course everyone is different-some will respond to vegetarianism and others to a primal diet. whatever works is best. but any judgements either way need immediate smashing. there isn't a single vegetarian on earth that would refuse meat if they were on their death bed with meat as their only salvation. and there isn't a single meat eating person on earth who wouldn't change to a vegetarian diet if they were in the same spot. anyone who says otherwise is full of sh*t. ;)

9eagle9
24th February 2011, 23:21
China.

There's a neat little group here that I scavenge from on occasion trading eggs for raw milk products. Its a group of about eight people. They all have a share in this cow..(lol..poor cow many masters..) However all they are doing is really just purchasing the cows entire milk output. Some organic farmers find this lucrative. Then the group divies up the milk and each of them do something with it. Consume as raw milk, make butter or clotted cream or cheese, kefer things of that nature and then trade products. I bust in occasional with my eggs and they barter me some stuff for eggs. Works splendidly. Visiting the farm is divided up on a rotation basis for each member so the trips out there per person are not quite so onerous. I love clotted cream and in this area this is my only good source of getting it.

Some very small dairy farm outfits will take on folks like this as they can't sell raw milk and they don't produce enough to qualify for the big league dairy distributors. We can't legally purchase raw milk so the contract is that the people are paying for the cows room, board, and food.



hi Rayne,

thanks for sharing. i've also incorporated many of aajonus' teachings, though i wish raw milk and butter were a little easier to come by and a little less expensive(its an hour trip to the nearest farm authorized to sell raw, and $8 a gallon for milk). raw meat was a little tough at first, but i've learned to love a good steak tartar dish.

the spiritual aspect can be chopped up a million ways(no pun intended) but it basically comes down to this: if you're sick enough, and if you'd tried everything under the sun, and if you're dieing, you will do what must be done, whether it involves eating raw meat or concrete. i speak from experience. i should have died years ago. raw meat was one of the things that saved my life.

of course everyone is different-some will respond to vegetarianism and others to a primal diet. whatever works is best. but any judgements either way need immediate smashing. there isn't a single vegetarian on earth that would refuse meat if they were on their death bed with meat as their only salvation. and there isn't a single meat eating person on earth who wouldn't change to a vegetarian diet if they were in the same spot. anyone who says otherwise is full of sh*t. ;)

Rayne T.
25th February 2011, 02:16
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Rayne T.
25th February 2011, 02:27
I became a vegetarian only recently (stupidly enough), and I'm very glad I did. It's so dumb actually, whole your life you are pressured into eating meat, and not once you think about it; until you wake up.

I cannot imagine hurting an animal, even it was for my health.
Science, when used correctly could help with the deficiencies...

I mean you no disrespect, but I have to speak up here. NOOOOO!!! Science cannot make up for our nutritional deficiencies. This type of thinking is exactly what got us in the nutritional mess we are in now. All of the GMO's and harmful chemicals added to our food, and feeding us a diet that is completely unnatural. You want a nice clean world where all you have to do is eat some nice little white pill and you will be glowing with health - this will never happen, and this type of thinking is going to get us all killed.

you say you wouldn't kill an animal to save yourself? Even an animal will kill another to live. Are you less valuable than an animal.

The anti- meat eating brainwashing that is going on with younger people is very destructive. Jetsam, please read my opening post, and read "We Want To Live" by Aajonus Vonderplanitz.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Rayne T.
25th February 2011, 03:03
What I am picking up from most of you who are vegetarians is that you feel it is wrong to kill an animal because it loses it's life and, it of course wants to live just like we do. Another reason is that you see yourself as a being more highly evolved and therefore think it is your responsibility to show a "higher" behavior of not eating meat.

Another reason Im reading is that you don't want to kill something that you perceive as cute.

On the website Divine Cosmos, David Wilcock talks about a study that demonstrates that plants suffer too. Of course they can't scream, but they express it in other ways. Plants show that they are even sensitive to our thoughts about harming them. How can you suggest that because a plant is designed differently, they don't suffer? Here is a link to the study. Scroll down to where it says, "BACKSTER DEVELOPED THE NEW PROTOCOLS WITH PLANT RESEARCH" -

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/articles/362-groundbreaking-russian-dna-discoveries

Here is another interesting article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_%28paranormal%29

So, we are required to kill, cause suffering, and eat, no matter what.

If you say you don't believe in killing something with a face, or that is "cute", this has nothing to do with right or wrong. We are only projecting our own selves and opinions onto the animal. We have a face. We think they are cute. No living thing wants to die, but animals don't view killing to eat as evil - it's what they do.

For all we know, an animal that dies to feed a human may incarnate as a higher life form because of it.

What is a person to eat if we decide that it is only ok to kill things that we perceive as being less evolved like a plant?

Beans, and grains are not meant for us, and nuts and seeds can only be consumed in very small amounts without causing damage. This leaves only fruits and vegetables to eat.

Too much sweet fruit has several very negative health effects, so then we are left with mostly vegetables. This is how I tried to eat when I was a vegan, and I was starving all of the time. I found myself craving cooked beans, and grains - which trashed my digestive system every time I indulged.

There was simply nothing to eat that satisfied my taste buds and hunger. Nothing but raw veggies is very depressing. So what are we to eat?

It's been proven, and common sense confirms, that it is healthiest to eat local and in season when it comes to plants. It is the greenest approach. So what then, can a vegetarian eat in the winter except for the few winter vegetables that grow and can be stored in a root cellar? What is there to eat for a vegetarian in the winter except for beans, nuts, seeds, and grains?

Not everyone can live in a tropical climate can they? This would be best I'm sure, but is it possible.

I appreciate all of your posts and sharing your opinions and, I'm not interested in arguing at all, but in seriously finding some answers here.

I don't like killing animals any more than you do, but I see no other real option when it comes to achieving optimal health. Please read my opening post if you haven't.

I'm always hearing vegetarians talk about all of the exotic superfoods, things like gogi berries, etc that they eat. This isn't realistic for the population, and it is the masses that need to start eating in a way that is harmonious to the planet because it is their eating habits that are causing all of the pollution and animal abuse in factory farms. We need a solution for them.

It seems to me that the raw Primal diet is the answer. It can be done organic, local, and free range. People can eat more meat in the winter, and more fruits and veggies in the summer. It is grain-less, bean-less, and includes a normal amount of nuts and seeds that you'd find growing on local trees here and there. People don't need a bunch of fiber on the raw primal diet. All that fiber is only necessary when people have lots of sludge in their intestines from cooked processed foods.

The raw Primal diet uses a min amount of packaging. It's organic. And, it freaking tastes good! Raw dairy is awesome. Fresh, organic, grass fed meat is awesome! This stuff is healing and filling. Its just seems perfect.

Back when I was vegan I bought a book called "Rawsome". I was so excited for it to arrive. Then I got it and discovered that about 90 % of the recipes included gobs of nuts and seeds- of course all raw and organic. Not only did these recipes cost a small fortune, but for me they were like eating arsenic. So disappointing.

If any of you can tell me WHAT there really is to eat as a vegetarian that will supply complete digestible real muscle building nutrition please, I'd love to hear it. Please keep in mind that a body doesn't start breaking down on a poor diet until around 35 or sometimes 50 if the diet has been vegetarian, so you need to be old enough to prove your results. If you are in your 20's, it doesnt mean anything to me that you eat 10 lbs of nuts a day and are running marathons. Your body simply hasn't had time to wear out from jumping through digestive hoops trying to process everything yet.

Love and Light, Rayne

Rayne T.
25th February 2011, 03:10
hi Rayne,

thanks for sharing. i've also incorporated many of aajonus' teachings, though i wish raw milk and butter were a little easier to come by and a little less expensive(its an hour trip to the nearest farm authorized to sell raw, and $8 a gallon for milk). raw meat was a little tough at first, but i've learned to love a good steak tartar dish.

the spiritual aspect can be chopped up a million ways(no pun intended) but it basically comes down to this: if you're sick enough, and if you'd tried everything under the sun, and if you're dieing, you will do what must be done, whether it involves eating raw meat or concrete. i speak from experience. i should have died years ago. raw meat was one of the things that saved my life.

of course everyone is different-some will respond to vegetarianism and others to a primal diet. whatever works is best. but any judgements either way need immediate smashing. there isn't a single vegetarian on earth that would refuse meat if they were on their death bed with meat as their only salvation. and there isn't a single meat eating person on earth who wouldn't change to a vegetarian diet if they were in the same spot. anyone who says otherwise is full of sh*t. ;)

Ha Ha, lmao! Right on! Thanks for your post!

Mike
25th February 2011, 03:22
China.

There's a neat little group here that I scavenge from on occasion trading eggs for raw milk products. Its a group of about eight people. They all have a share in this cow..(lol..poor cow many masters..) However all they are doing is really just purchasing the cows entire milk output. Some organic farmers find this lucrative. Then the group divies up the milk and each of them do something with it. Consume as raw milk, make butter or clotted cream or cheese, kefer things of that nature and then trade products. I bust in occasional with my eggs and they barter me some stuff for eggs. Works splendidly. Visiting the farm is divided up on a rotation basis for each member so the trips out there per person are not quite so onerous. I love clotted cream and in this area this is my only good source of getting it.

Some very small dairy farm outfits will take on folks like this as they can't sell raw milk and they don't produce enough to qualify for the big league dairy distributors. We can't legally purchase raw milk so the contract is that the people are paying for the cows room, board, and food.



hi Rayne,

thanks for sharing. i've also incorporated many of aajonus' teachings, though i wish raw milk and butter were a little easier to come by and a little less expensive(its an hour trip to the nearest farm authorized to sell raw, and $8 a gallon for milk). raw meat was a little tough at first, but i've learned to love a good steak tartar dish.

the spiritual aspect can be chopped up a million ways(no pun intended) but it basically comes down to this: if you're sick enough, and if you'd tried everything under the sun, and if you're dieing, you will do what must be done, whether it involves eating raw meat or concrete. i speak from experience. i should have died years ago. raw meat was one of the things that saved my life.

of course everyone is different-some will respond to vegetarianism and others to a primal diet. whatever works is best. but any judgements either way need immediate smashing. there isn't a single vegetarian on earth that would refuse meat if they were on their death bed with meat as their only salvation. and there isn't a single meat eating person on earth who wouldn't change to a vegetarian diet if they were in the same spot. anyone who says otherwise is full of sh*t. ;)

hi 9eagle9,

all the pageantry just to get a little raw milk! crazy;) isn't it???

you had me laughing there: they all have a share in the cow...lol!!!

its ridiculous, but if you don't tip-toe around these laws, f.b.i. have been known to raid percieved non-compliant health food stores with guns drawn. no joke. the man referenced, aajonus vonderplanitz, has a store in s.california-Rawsome-and was raided relatively recently. and he was operating completely within the law. probably a whole new thread...

Jayke
25th February 2011, 07:21
If any of you can tell me WHAT there really is to eat as a vegetarian that will supply complete digestible real muscle building nutrition please, I'd love to hear it. Please keep in mind that a body doesn't start breaking down on a poor diet until around 35 or sometimes 50 if the diet has been vegetarian, so you need to be old enough to prove your results. If you are in your 20's, it doesnt mean anything to me that you eat 10 lbs of nuts a day and are running marathons. Your body simply hasn't had time to wear out from jumping through digestive hoops trying to process everything yet.

chick peas are great, especially when mixed into humus, mushrooms are 60% protein and contain a wealth of minerals, eggs, lots of olive oil, lots of butter, fermented foods, fruit and vegetables of every colour, a rainbow diet...I find grains alright as long as i soak them overnight or ferment them to soften them up...root vegetables cooked...seeds, nuts, vegetarian curries are great, figs and dates in small proportions so as not to be bad for the teeth...no breads,no sugar, plenty of water, lots of sea salt.

I find vegetarian food delicious, much nicer than when I was eating all processed and refined stuff but i lead a very active lifestyle and as a result i do have to eat alot to keep my weight up, kudos to you for finding a diet that works, I may even try adding a bit of raw salmon to my diet just to see how it affects me, i've heard alot of vegetarians who have had to start eating meat for health reasons so I see no shame in giving it a go

Thanks Rayne, your experiences are much appreciated

Sowelu
25th February 2011, 07:43
OOH great topic!

Cats today are no less of carnivores than the sabretooths were.
I feed mine high protein diets cause the corn based ones cause health problems-ie
(friskies, whiskas,meowmix any big name commercial cat chow is escentially mostly fillers)

Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.
Though if you do go that route make sure it's organic as the commercial processing is often what causes parasites and bacterial contamination.

If you're a dog owner, dogs ARE omnivores but a food high in grains is still bad for their health. they require more proteins and veggies than grains.
Check your ingredients :)

...THIS APPLIES TO HUMANS TOO!...
we were omnivores in the beggining and that hasn't changed...
HOWEVER there is nutritional typing as some humans genetically require more proteins or more carbs based on the climate they were encoded for...

Truthfullly we're all designed to only eat raw foods but because of how unsafe our food handler's practices have become, i would air on the side of caution when it comes to raw meats.
(we didn't always have fire :P)
I eat my eggs raw but they're free-range locally produced and noncommercial.

The reason at least SOME raw foods are important is simply this..cooked food is dead food...
raw contains many important ezymes that help your body to process things more quickly, effciently, and completely.

Also many vitamins and other nutrients are destroyed with the cooking process.

more info @ mercola.com (they also have a free nutritional typing test)

chelmostef
25th February 2011, 08:01
Life is about choice, which road you want to travel down.
We all have a choice and different roads to walk down.
My choice is to not eat anything with a brain or is a sentient being.
I don't need any justification for my diet as I know in my heart that it is right.
I want to live in a world were we can walk amongst all living creatures without them running in fear of their lives.
You are what you consume, you are the fear that the animals feels before they die, that's in you that's your choice.
I have chosen my road and a weight has been lifted, I'm not a hypocrite, I'm liberated.

Malcolm Linus
25th February 2011, 08:09
Please don't just disagree and stop reading because of what you have read in magazines, heard on tv, or even experienced for yourself about the benefits of going vegetarian.
This is what made me stop reading. Ridiculous. Experiencing for yourself (when possible) is the best reason to test something. By the way, I am a vegan going on for 5 years, in great health, except for an hereditary disease. In my opinion, nothing can beat self-experience.

Borden
25th February 2011, 10:02
I was thirteen when I decided I wanted to be vegetarian, and it was on compassionate grounds. My Dad called me a weirdo and I didn't care. He never missed an opportunity to mock, lecture or otherwise dissuade me. Didn't care. I liked animals. Even ones that didn't seem to like me too much. I had sympathy for them. There are plenty of humans I don't particularly like, and some that I very much dislike - but I wouldn't wish the abattoir on any of them.

In my mid-thirties (I'm nearly forty-two) I went full vegan. I'd read some things and seen some things that horrified me. Really horrified me. How, I thought, can we as a species maintain the hypocrisy of conceits like philosophy, romance, art, higher thinking? How? Look at what happens in abattoirs and tell me how.

Well, I nearly died being a vegan. A previous poster mentioned the book, "Eat right for your type", and I have that book. My blood group is 'O', which - if I'm correct - is the ancient, more stone age friendly one. I fell apart physically. I thought I was being so careful: Spirulina, soaked hemp, flax, vitamins (the good ones, not the crap they sell in supermarkets), you name it. But eventually even walking became un-doable. If I walked half a mile to th nearest shop I would have to spend the next week crippled. It was that bad - I couldn't go down the stairs - had to go one step at a time on my backside.

In early 2007 I did an exercise I read in a book by Alberto Villoldo (The Four Insights). I was dying, and had been having seriously worrying symptoms of cardio vascular breakdown. It's an exercise to cleanse your chakras. Forgive my flakiness. The next morning I had the strongest desire in the world to eat fish. Not mammal - fish. So I did, despite all my strongest feelings against it.

Well, I walk miles on a regular basis now, and that appalling period of fear and sickness is gone. I eat fish, and I eat locally sourced free range, organic eggs. No mammals. I don't like it, but I'd be dead now if it wasn't for that turnaround. I really don't like it. I will never eat fish or eggs without a very private prayer to both the animal and the Earth. I wish I didn't have to, believe me.

I have noticed that when I eat protein, animal foods (fish and eggs), and a lot of salad, I feel a vitality that is unnatural to modern people. I agree with the posters who say that grains and beans and things are not so good for us. I mean, I eat them sometimes - but I think you're right. Why the hell are the things that are so good for us (green, leafy vegetables we cat eat raw) the most expensive? Hmmm.

As for raw meat ... well, I think if you are going to eat mammal then it probably is the way to go. Cooking things really hasn't had a chance yet to take, evolutionarily speaking. But I have this intuition that I don't want to eat mammals. I share a limbic brain with them. I fear that there is an element of hypocrisy in this, and admit that I don't want to eat fish either. But mammal? Yuk. My weird life has granted me bizarre and comic interaction with the sort of mammals that humans generally eat, and for my money they are just too like us. Warm-blooded and feeling. Maybe fish feel, blimey - maybe plants feel. What can I do? When i started eating fish again I had to make a decision that was as dramatic as me or them. I do it with respect and regret. I want to live.

If there are proper vegans out there who can be healthy, then power to your elbows. I wish I could be one again, and I respect you utterly.

p.s. LIMOR, thank you for what you said. Beautiful. As a non-Israeli, non-Jew - if I had said what you said - likening the death camps to what we as a species seem to tolerate so blithely - I'm pretty sure I would have been blasted. It's off-topic, sorry - but important to remember that whatever we hear on the news and whatever we think about certain governments, there are plenty of people in Israel who are (extremely) compassionate human beings! I didn't watch the film you posted because I've seen things like it, and become enraged and upset before. I saw a television documentary in England some years ago about abattoirs, and I will take it to my grave. I saw calves skittering, panicked and terrified, in a queue, to be executed. They were slipping and sliding on a blood soaked floor. It was hell on Earth.

chelmostef
25th February 2011, 10:14
Thank you Borden for that wonderful post. We all have many differnt paths to walk and it seems you are finding one that makes you the most happy and that is the goal of life is it not, to be happy and content deep within our soles.

Mu2143
25th February 2011, 10:15
Its sounds like your where missing B12 in your diet ,because if you run out of it your death!

Borden
25th February 2011, 10:24
Thanks, chelmostef

'Sole'? Was that a joke about the problems I had with walking or a typo? Either way, very kind, thank you.

What's a Brit doing in Norway? Please forward my regards to Thor.


And thank you, Mu2143

I thought I would be getting the B12 from Spirulina. Listen, seriously - if you can tell me how to be a vegan without killing myself I would love to know!

Borden.

Mu2143
25th February 2011, 10:35
I found out recently that my B12 level where getting low , but because of my very healthy diet I did not really noticed it (Blood test 2 times). I did had COD liver(should contain b12 fish) in my diet and Chlorella/Spirulina about 7 grams a day and it still was dropping. I have supped it with a Vegan b12 spray for under the tongue.

This one I have purchased .
http://www.company4you.nl/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1475

Borden
25th February 2011, 10:58
Thanks, chelmostef

'Sole'? Was that a joke about the problems I had with walking or a typo? Either way, very kind, thank you.

What's a Brit doing in Norway? Please forward my regards to Thor.


And thank you, Mu2143

I thought I would be getting the B12 from Spirulina. Listen, seriously - if you can tell me how to be a vegan without killing myself I would love to know!

Borden.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Oops, double post. Sorry.

Borden.

chelmostef
25th February 2011, 11:01
Sole! no pun intended just came off that way, its quite a good word though from the top right down to the soles..

I moved to Norway with my sole mate... Arh done it again!

But seriously its a great country and a great place to, i moved here with my girlfriend. It a bit nicer than Walthamstow were we was living before, although I did enjoy living there too.

I have to say I been vegan for about 12 years and have many vegan friends in London and around the world.

From what people have told me form Av1 certain blood types cannot be vegan. I understand this can be difficult if you do want to be something and cannot.

I can only go by what I have found with me personally and that was that i first cut out fish, then meats then all animal products, although I do eat honey..

I did that slowly and started when I was 17, some of my friends have been vegan for years. What I would say is to make sure you eat a wide variety of food to try and get a broad basis of minerals and vitamins. I have read that spirulina does have good source of B12 but is not a reliable one, for this reason I have always taken vitamin supplements not always regularly but just when I feel I have needed a boost or started to feel a bit under the weather... I have also been taking the sunshine vitamin, vitamin D and I could not recommend it enough.. I also supplement with calcium in to stop any uptake of fluoride and to make sure im not laking there either.

I do understand that diet is a personal thing and right to eat what ever you like, but I have found that I have never felt better. I have a healthy mind (I think) and I like to think a healthy sole, I feel content with the knowledge that nothing dies from my direct action, Im a giver of life not a taker.

The dichotomy is if people cannot be what they want to be and then we have to strive to be content within ourselves.

Borden
25th February 2011, 12:43
Thank you, chelmostef

I did the vitamin D thing and the other things you mention ... but I was dying! I wish I could be a vegan again, but it seems evolution does not want that. Could I have been cleverer about it? I thought I was covering every angle. It depresses and enrages me. Animals seem to like me ... they know I have respect and compassion. I look at warm-blooded fellows who have a limbic brain like I do, and I feel a natural sense of kinship, of compassion. I won't eat then, and I will admit that I have to fight the rage I feel when I see things that go on in abattoirs. The animals humans tend to eat are about the most loving, friendly and lovely. It's perverse. I was looking in another thread a minute ago that was about people and their dogs and cats. How can we feel this way about one animal and another about a different animal? It doesn't make sense.

Borden.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

BTW, chelmostef

I lived in Walthamstow for about a week. I found it very friendly. I played in a band there on a sort of mini 'tour'. Very hospitable people.

Malcolm Linus
25th February 2011, 14:18
I have also read the books by Peter J. Adamo, and I must say that it all makes sense. The link between blood types and food digestion, etc. Low stomach acid for many with the blood type A is one good example that makes me think this type of blood (with its links to other inherited properties) is not meant to digest meat.

For me, being a vegan is more about living out an ideal that I have in my mind. Humans living in nature, with the animals having no fear around us. It's a bit silly, but this image is stuck in my mind. But I also believe animals can be killed humanely, and is meant to be consumed by a certain type of human. Organic farming is a great starting point to use animals as a resource (it makes me cringe to write it, but hey...) without causing pain.

If at one point I really needed it, I would gladly eat eggs from organic farms (that I know is legit) and meat from animals that have lived a good life without too many restrictions. In my eyes, you made the wise decision, Borden.

I have the blood type A, by the way.

Mu2143
25th February 2011, 14:48
If you want to go back to your old diet and wanted to know if its B12 that your where missing then I suggest to take a blood test for b12 levels and then go back to your old diet for a month or 2 and do a blood test again to see if this was the cause of the problem.

Peace of Mind
25th February 2011, 16:50
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Hi there, Rayne T...

I see where you're coming from...and going.

I used to play football, so I was always a health nut. What I and a few others I know experienced was more of a mental spiritual lifting when we decided to end our flesh eating.

I remember being told that spirits from the highest realm come to talk to you but they are hesitant when you have a certain type of energy signature…meaning the negative energy in the consumption of death/flesh. This is real to me because I’ve been involved in and witnessed some very negative things before my transition. Now I’m experiencing some beautiful things in life, my body is going through some unexplainable changes (heightened senses and possibly unlocking dormant abilities). My mind has become so vivid that most of my thoughts seem to need a complex language to explain them.

When ever I smell cooked flesh it’s nauseating. Eating flesh will most certainly make me sick because my body is cleansed of it. All my body’s cells are re-new and not one of them needs a pinch of meat to operate to their full potential.

Mostly every report giving to the masses from the FDA or any controlled institution are filled with lies. All they want to do is make you sick so they can drug you. They tell you what your body needs instead of you listening to it yourself. None of this is Rocket science…people just need to trust themselves…I can’t say that enough.

My body tells me the truth not some person who has never met me or done any health test on me. I don’t need someone with selfish plans to inform me on how to take care of myself. My mind, body and soul are thankful for that. What I write here is my testimony; but, it might mean something to someone who is considering a change in their energy field.

I know animals are intelligent species; it’s unfortunate that most humans don’t have the capacity or patience to learn from them.

As I said in an earlier post I’m prepared to die before I put another piece of dead flesh inside God’s temple. Death is no stranger to me. Seen it and almost became it. I don’t fear it one bit because we will meet in due time…so I will live in complete LIFE until then. Fear is not a part of me; I actually despise (lack of a better word) cowards, because they hinder the WHOLE by being hesitant in doing their part. Maybe people have too much fear because that is part of the energy they consume from meat….how were the animals feeling before they were killed for food? I actually feel sorry for the ones that do fear death...they will have no problem taking another innocent life just to save their own, when it probably should be the other way around. The global conditioning has been efficient…as well as damaging.

We are only going to be living for a minute, so I’ve learned to not fear the inevitable. Life here is temporary, my existence out of this body matters more to me than what I do while occupying it,temporarily. In other words…this is part of my preparation for that unavoidable journey outside of the meat suit we’re currently carrying. So, I’m glad for my being as you should be for yours…

I’m not here to convince anyone, but to leave something to ponder for those that are interested. After all…the choice has always been yours…that’s what this school called Earth is all about…

Peace

Mike
25th February 2011, 20:22
would just like to add a couple things here. i've never been to a restaurant and seen death on the menu. or negative energy. or fear. they're called STEAKS. or CHICKEN BREASTS. i'm not inhaling the scared soul of a cow, so please, enough of the pseudo-spiritual esoteria. i've never eaten a steak and suddenly felt petrified. ive never oink-oinked in terror after enjoying a pork chop. ive never cuckle doodle do'd and ran from an invisible butcher after a dinner of chicken breasts. if you enjoy a vegetarian diet, great. but please stop trying to equate meat eaters with Hitler. thank you.

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune. i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process. are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

nearing
25th February 2011, 20:28
Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.
I agree with all you said there Sowelu and I LOVE your avatar!

But I must disagree with the statement above.

Humans have Hydrochloric acid (HCL) in their stomachs. You can't get a more potent while still biologically-compatible acid. It's a VERY VERY strong acid.

chelmostef
25th February 2011, 21:04
i'm not inhaling the scared soul of a cow, so please, enough of the pseudo-spiritual esoteria. i've never eaten a steak and suddenly felt petrified. ive never oink-oinked in terror after enjoying a pork chop.

Im sorry but their are many tradtions were they consume the flesh, heart and brains to gain some sort of power... And even credo mutwa ate alien flesh to gain some sort of power he nearly died, but ate it to gain a connection


Credo Mutwa: I said, sir, the Grey aliens are edible.

Martin: Yes, I heard that and I’m anxious to....

Credo Mutwa: Their flesh is protein, just as animal flesh on Earth is, but, anyone who ingests Grey alien flesh comes very, very close to death. I nearly did.

You see, in Lesotho there is a mountain called Laribe; it is called the Crying Stone mountain. On several occasions, in the last 50 years or so, alien craft have crashed against this mountain.

And one last incident was reported in the newspapers not so long ago. An African who believes that these creatures are gods, when they find the corpse of a dead Grey alien, they take it, put it in a bag, and drag it into the bush, where they dismember it and ritually eat it. But some of them die as a result of ingesting that thing.

About a year before I had the experience from the Inyangani Mountains, I had been given, by a friend of mine in Lesotho, flesh from what he called a sky god. I was skeptical.

He gave me a small lump of grey, rather dry stuff, which he said was the flesh. And he and I and his wife ritually ate this thing, one night. After we had eaten this thing, sir, on the following day, exactly, our bodies erupted into a rash which was like nothing I had experienced in my life before.

Our bodies were so full of the rash and urticaria, it was as if we had small pox. We itched, the itching was horrible, especially under the arm-pits and between the legs, and the buttocks. Our tongues began to swell. We could not breathe. And for a number of days, my friend, his wife and I were totally helpless, secretly attended by initiates who were studying under my friend, who was a shaman.

I came very close to death. There was bleeding from nearly every orifice in our body. We passed blood, much blood when we went to the toilet. We could barely walk, barely breathe. And after about 4 or 5 days, the rash subsided, then the pealing of the skin took its place now. Our skins began to peal, in scales like that of a snake shedding it’s skin.

Sir, it was one of the most terrible experiences I had undergone. In fact, when I began to feel better, I think that my being abducted by the Mantindane was the direct result of my having ingested flesh from one of these creatures. I had not believed that what my friend was giving me was flesh from a creature. I assumed it was some kind of root or herb or whatever. But, afterwards, I recalled the taste of the thing. It had a coppery taste, and had the same type of smell that I was to encounter in 1959.

And, after the rash went down-while I was still peeling and we were smeared from head to foot with coconut oil by the initiates, every day-a strange change came over us, sir, which I am asking all people of knowledge who would read this in your country to try and explain to me. We went crazy, sir, utterly crazy.

We started laughing like real loony tunes. It was ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, day after day-for the slightest things we started laughing our heads off, for hours, until you were nearly exhausted.

And then the laughing went away; and then a strange thing happened, a thing which my friend said was the goal which those who ate the flesh of a Mantindane wanted to achieve.

It was as if we had ingested a strange substance, a drug, a drug like no other on this Earth. Suddenly, our feelings were heightened.

When you drank water, it was as if you had drunk a wine of some kind. Water became as delicious as a man-made drink. Food began to taste amazingly. Every feeling was heightened, and it’s indescribable-it was as if I was one with the very heart of the universe. I cannot describe it any other way.

And this feeling of amazing intensity of feeling lasted for over 2 months. When I listened to music, it was as if there was music behind the music, behind the music. When I painted pictures-which is what I do for a living-and when I was holding a particular color on the tip of my brush, it was as if there were other colors in that color. It was an indescribable thing, sir. Even now I cannot describe it. But let me now, sir, go to something else.

http://www.metatech.org/credo_mutwa.html

Peace of Mind
25th February 2011, 21:30
Chinaski,

If you don’t believe what I have to say that’s cool with me. And I’m definitely not going to tell you what to do. I’m just providing some insight to those that are interested. It’s not hard for me to see why you and others are dealing with certain health issues. If you think you need meat then you will…it’s really that simple. I don’t believe “I need to eat another animal or I’ll die.” If you want to, fine. I’m sure many don’t.
I’m speaking on behalf of the animals, and maybe some that are against flesh eating because of what it does (as I explained). I hope you do know at the time of these animals death they excrete toxins into the blood…which the flesh is soaked in, right?

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune.
I highly doubt that. Besides, I’m not really impressed with the current state of the world to make such a selfish sacrifice anyway. So the idea of death would be more inviting than you know. I’m sure my ideas of death are very different than yours.
i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process.

Are you even sure the doctors aren’t the ones making people sick? I wonder how many of them people know how to heal themselves, most not be many because they wouldn’t be in there in the first place. The healthcare industry is more of a biz than a lifeline. Learn to heal your body by meditation. The body is a magnificent machine. Meds don’t heal; they only assist you in tolerating the pain while the body does the rest (placebo). Pain is in the mind, its only there to tell you that there is something wrong, control the mind and you will control the pain.
There are (very graphic) vids on youtube showing a few Muslims tolerance to pain. They stick knives thru their arms, neck, mouths, and tongues. There is even one scene where one guy lodged a machete in the top of one of his brother’s head. All this was done while they sang and dance. It was a bloody display but very educational.

are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

Again, I don’t buy the “need meat to live” theories, there are substitutes. Even the "so called" need for b12 can be found in dirt, sea plants and a can of RedBull (if you trust the FDA)…not to mentioned supplements. But I do not recommend drugs of any kind to people, I can’t even remember the last time I was sick.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

Do you really see my post as being judgmental? I don’t waste time posting nonsense, and I rarely engage in small talk because there is little time for that. Every post I make here is from the heart, my intentions are pure. Sorry to see how sensitive you are about this, just imagine how the animals feel…

I doubt I’ll respond to this thread again, there really isn’t anything else to add on the subject, My post are not personal, if you take them that way…maybe you need to re-read them and/or reflect on them a bit longer. Then re-read yours. The problem might be closer than you originally thought.

Live well...

Peace

9eagle9
25th February 2011, 21:35
Really you haven't sat down to a meat meal and thought with pleasure of the bolt entering the cows head, as you chewed and savored. Or the way a chickens head makes little snap, while sinking your teeth into a fat thigh and shivering with sensation? Writhed in an orgy of delight because you are consuming some hapless animal.

No? Didn't think so. Me either.

Mind you many the moralist vegans have probably never consciously harvested anything, reseeded or replanted what they've taken from the earth. Most of them have no idea what destruction that even organic farming can cause. The ones that do 'get' the sacredness of what the earth has given to us and doesn't seek to make such divisionary thoughts.

It doesn't matter. Those who seek self value in material things will find one spiritual snobbery and another will always find a way to trump it. Spiritual One up manship. I can't wait till a fruitarian shows up and piously admits to not eating anything unless it was fallen from the tree. Now they make the vegans look like rank sinners...




*************
Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune. i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process. are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.[/QUOTE]

Peace of Mind
25th February 2011, 21:41
I can't wait for a Cow/ a pig / some chickens / and fish show up too. And I also wouldn't mind if some vegatation chimed in...

Peace

Limor Wolf
25th February 2011, 21:59
Chinaski originally posted:

would just like to add a couple things here. i've never been to a restaurant and seen death on the menu. or negative energy. or fear. they're called STEAKS. or CHICKEN BREASTS. i'm not inhaling the scared soul of a cow, so please, enough of the pseudo-spiritual esoteria. i've never eaten a steak and suddenly felt petrified. ive never oink-oinked in terror after enjoying a pork chop. ive never cuckle doodle do'd and ran from an invisible butcher after a dinner of chicken breasts. if you enjoy a vegetarian diet, great. but please stop trying to equate meat eaters with Hitler. thank you.

would just like to add a couple things here.

i'v never read any newspaper and saw any 'rulling elites' that controll the world,or sensed any negetive energy or fear thrown at me from the royal family or the vatican.they are called KINGS AND QUEENS or HIGHLY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. i'm not affected from the advertisments on television,so please,enough of the pseudo-conspirational so called 'agenda'.
i have never listened to George Bush giving a speech and suddenly felt petrified.i have never oink-oinked in terror after being checked by scanners machines at the airport (after all its for my own security).i have never ran from an invisible 'man in black' that are part of some secret organisation.if you enjoy conspiracy theories,great. but please stop trying to equate senior politicians and leaders who try to do their best to some kind of satanists...thank you.

(sigh) Why,oh why can't we just see (or feel)...

*sorry my friend chinaski,please dont take it personal

Mike
25th February 2011, 21:59
Peace of Mind,

thanks for the reply.

people that require meat to survive do not view this as a philosphy or belief. its a fact, whether you buy into it or not. they've tried all the alternatives and they didn't work. meat did.

i'm not really a sensitive guy, but i take issue with words like "coward" when applied to meat eaters. and "despising" meat eaters etc...these words are...well...judgemental. hard not to take it personally. no additional "reflection" required on my part.

as far as the medical system being harmful, well, icouldn't agree with you more! see, we do agree on something lol!

Mike
25th February 2011, 22:05
thanks for that post chelmostef. interesting article. i seem to remember reading that or seeing that in a video somewhere.

well i sort of agree with you. i eat meat(particul;arly organ meat) to feel power. i equate power and vitality with health.

as far as credo....well, look, even credo eats meat!!!;) no, but seriously, i would guesss that his reaction had more to do with the chemical composition of the grey being than karma/negative energy/fear/ eating its soul etc...you might have similiar symptoms from LSD, right?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

9eagle9 you're hilarious! the fruit people lol! well, i wouldn't be surprided one bit, honestly.

chelmostef
25th February 2011, 22:07
The ones that do 'get' the sacredness of what the earth has given to us and doesn't seek to make such divisionary thoughts.

If its any consolation i tried my very hardest to stay out of this thread for exactly the reason you have stated.

It seems I do what I do to make myself happy and content. But by me denying and abstaining myself from something it clearly upsets you.... I am very sorry for this and I apologize if you feel I have judged you in any way.

Mike
25th February 2011, 22:10
Chinaski originally posted:

would just like to add a couple things here. i've never been to a restaurant and seen death on the menu. or negative energy. or fear. they're called STEAKS. or CHICKEN BREASTS. i'm not inhaling the scared soul of a cow, so please, enough of the pseudo-spiritual esoteria. i've never eaten a steak and suddenly felt petrified. ive never oink-oinked in terror after enjoying a pork chop. ive never cuckle doodle do'd and ran from an invisible butcher after a dinner of chicken breasts. if you enjoy a vegetarian diet, great. but please stop trying to equate meat eaters with Hitler. thank you.

would just like to add a couple things here.

i'v never read any newspaper and saw any 'rulling elites' that controll the world,or sensed any negetive energy or fear thrown at me from the royal family or the vatican.they are called KINGS AND QUEENS or HIGHLY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. i'm not effected from the advertisments on television,so please,enough of the pseudo-conspirational so called 'agenda'.
i have never listened to George Bush giving a speech and suddenly felt petrified.i have never oink-oinked in terror after being checked by scanners machines at the airport (after all its for my own security).i have never ran from an invisible 'man in black' that are part of some secret organisation.if you enjoy conspiracy theories,great. but please stop trying to equate senior politicians and leaders who try to do their best to some kind of satanists...thank you.

(sigh) Why,oh why can't we just see (or feel)...

*sorry my friend chinaski,please dont take it personal hi limor, no worries. i don't take it personal at all. i thought it was a clever response, actually lol!

as far as my similiar comments, i was really attempting sarcasm(perhaps unsuccessfully) to make a point.

Paul
25th February 2011, 23:10
This one I have purchased .
http://www.company4you.nl/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1475

The B-12 supplement I use is Swanson Ultra Dr. Mercola's Vitamin B-12 Spray (http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU498/ItemDetail?n=0), but I do not know if it is pure vegan.

(The Swanson website has been painfully slow of late - not sure what's up with that.)

Limor Wolf
25th February 2011, 23:26
Chinaski originally posted:

would just like to add a couple things here. i've never been to a restaurant and seen death on the menu. or negative energy. or fear. they're called STEAKS. or CHICKEN BREASTS. i'm not inhaling the scared soul of a cow, so please, enough of the pseudo-spiritual esoteria. i've never eaten a steak and suddenly felt petrified. ive never oink-oinked in terror after enjoying a pork chop. ive never cuckle doodle do'd and ran from an invisible butcher after a dinner of chicken breasts. if you enjoy a vegetarian diet, great. but please stop trying to equate meat eaters with Hitler. thank you.

would just like to add a couple things here.

i'v never read any newspaper and saw any 'rulling elites' that controll the world,or sensed any negetive energy or fear thrown at me from the royal family or the vatican.they are called KINGS AND QUEENS or HIGHLY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. i'm not effected from the advertisments on television,so please,enough of the pseudo-conspirational so called 'agenda'.
i have never listened to George Bush giving a speech and suddenly felt petrified.i have never oink-oinked in terror after being checked by scanners machines at the airport (after all its for my own security).i have never ran from an invisible 'man in black' that are part of some secret organisation.if you enjoy conspiracy theories,great. but please stop trying to equate senior politicians and leaders who try to do their best to some kind of satanists...thank you.

(sigh) Why,oh why can't we just see (or feel)...

*sorry my friend chinaski,please dont take it personal hi limor, no worries. i don't take it personal at all. i thought it was a clever response, actually lol!

as far as my similiar comments, i was really attempting sarcasm(perhaps unsuccessfully) to make a point.

me too.

allow me another one:its not always only about US.even if something is good for us but will be on the expense of someone else,it might be worth considering again..

however,i am not interested to 'hijack' this thread from its original topic as intended by Rayne T.those 'arguments' are a never ending story... and no one convincing no one.
life will do its 'job' for each of us and eventually we will know what is best for us and everyone/everything involved.

have a good night :)

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 04:17
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Hi there, Rayne T...

I see where you're coming from...and going.

I used to play football, so I was always a health nut. What I and a few others I know experienced was more of a mental spiritual lifting when we decided to end our flesh eating.

I remember being told that spirits from the highest realm come to talk to you but they are hesitant when you have a certain type of energy signature…meaning the negative energy in the consumption of death/flesh. This is real to me because I’ve been involved in and witnessed some very negative things before my transition. Now I’m experiencing some beautiful things in life, my body is going through some unexplainable changes (heightened senses and possibly unlocking dormant abilities). My mind has become so vivid that most of my thoughts seem to need a complex language to explain them.

When ever I smell cooked flesh it’s nauseating. Eating flesh will most certainly make me sick because my body is cleansed of it. All my body’s cells are re-new and not one of them needs a pinch of meat to operate to their full potential.

Mostly every report giving to the masses from the FDA or any controlled institution are filled with lies. All they want to do is make you sick so they can drug you. They tell you what your body needs instead of you listening to it yourself. None of this is Rocket science…people just need to trust themselves…I can’t say that enough.

My body tells me the truth not some person who has never met me or done any health test on me. I don’t need someone with selfish plans to inform me on how to take care of myself. My mind, body and soul are thankful for that. What I write here is my testimony; but, it might mean something to someone who is considering a change in their energy field.

I know animals are intelligent species; it’s unfortunate that most humans don’t have the capacity or patience to learn from them.

As I said in an earlier post I’m prepared to die before I put another piece of dead flesh inside God’s temple. Death is no stranger to me. Seen it and almost became it. I don’t fear it one bit because we will meet in due time…so I will live in complete LIFE until then. Fear is not a part of me; I actually despise (lack of a better word) cowards, because they hinder the WHOLE by being hesitant in doing their part. Maybe people have too much fear because that is part of the energy they consume from meat….how were the animals feeling before they were killed for food? I actually feel sorry for the ones that do fear death...they will have no problem taking another innocent life just to save their own, when it probably should be the other way around. The global conditioning has been efficient…as well as damaging.

We are only going to be living for a minute, so I’ve learned to not fear the inevitable. Life here is temporary, my existence out of this body matters more to me than what I do while occupying it,temporarily. In other words…this is part of my preparation for that unavoidable journey outside of the meat suit we’re currently carrying. So, I’m glad for my being as you should be for yours…

I’m not here to convince anyone, but to leave something to ponder for those that are interested. After all…the choice has always been yours…that’s what this school called Earth is all about…

Peace

Hi, thanks for your post. I don't eat cooked meat. Cooked is certainly dead. I eat meat raw, that 's what the raw primal diet is based on- that and raw fats, veggies, fruits, and unheated honey.

I can say that I have a pretty clear clean connection with my High Self and guides now, none of the fear and negativity that you are imagining. No disrespect intended, but you have some beliefs and emotional charges around these issues. You say you "despise" cowards, and you sound very judgemental - this is projection.


Love and Light, Rayne

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 04:31
Chinaski,

If you don’t believe what I have to say that’s cool with me. And I’m definitely not going to tell you what to do. I’m just providing some insight to those that are interested. It’s not hard for me to see why you and others are dealing with certain health issues. If you think you need meat then you will…it’s really that simple. I don’t believe “I need to eat another animal or I’ll die.” If you want to, fine. I’m sure many don’t.
I’m speaking on behalf of the animals, and maybe some that are against flesh eating because of what it does (as I explained). I hope you do know at the time of these animals death they excrete toxins into the blood…which the flesh is soaked in, right?

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune.
I highly doubt that. Besides, I’m not really impressed with the current state of the world to make such a selfish sacrifice anyway. So the idea of death would be more inviting than you know. I’m sure my ideas of death are very different than yours.
i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process.

Are you even sure the doctors aren’t the ones making people sick? I wonder how many of them people know how to heal themselves, most not be many because they wouldn’t be in there in the first place. The healthcare industry is more of a biz than a lifeline. Learn to heal your body by meditation. The body is a magnificent machine. Meds don’t heal; they only assist you in tolerating the pain while the body does the rest (placebo). Pain is in the mind, its only there to tell you that there is something wrong, control the mind and you will control the pain.
There are (very graphic) vids on youtube showing a few Muslims tolerance to pain. They stick knives thru their arms, neck, mouths, and tongues. There is even one scene where one guy lodged a machete in the top of one of his brother’s head. All this was done while they sang and dance. It was a bloody display but very educational.

are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

Again, I don’t buy the “need meat to live” theories, there are substitutes. Even the "so called" need for b12 can be found in dirt, sea plants and a can of RedBull (if you trust the FDA)…not to mentioned supplements. But I do not recommend drugs of any kind to people, I can’t even remember the last time I was sick.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

Do you really see my post as being judgmental? I don’t waste time posting nonsense, and I rarely engage in small talk because there is little time for that. Every post I make here is from the heart, my intentions are pure. Sorry to see how sensitive you are about this, just imagine how the animals feel…

I doubt I’ll respond to this thread again, there really isn’t anything else to add on the subject, My post are not personal, if you take them that way…maybe you need to re-read them and/or reflect on them a bit longer. Then re-read yours. The problem might be closer than you originally thought.

Live well...

Peace

Hi, I understand your position on this, but it would help if you would read my opening thread before jumping to conclusions. I was a vegetarian when I developed all of my health problems, and was nearly dead. I'm not going to relist all of my symptoms again here, and write the entire story over again.

I also explained how I healed myself with the raw primal diet. I didn't use doctors. I believe food is our medicine. However, if a person won't eat a healthy diet for them, they do end up in hospitals - exactly what I avoided. They end up in hospitals and doctors do what they can. They can't make someone eat raw meat and raw fat, they can only try to kill microbes, viruses and try to kill tumors and cancer cells. I don't agree at all with their approach but if a person is going to insist on a bad diet, it's the only other option.

Love and Light, Rayne

Sowelu
26th February 2011, 04:52
Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.
I agree with all you said there Sowelu and I LOVE your avatar!

But I must disagree with the statement above.

Humans have Hydrochloric acid (HCL) in their stomachs. You can't get a more potent while still biologically-compatible acid. It's a VERY VERY strong acid.

pardon my misquote :P, but what i meant to say was that their systems are designed to be more resilient than ours. Their saliva contains antibacterial agents such as lysozyme and their shorter digestive tracts make it harder for bacteria to colonize... they have digestive ENZYMES that we don't not acids

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 07:13
This one I have purchased .
http://www.company4you.nl/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1475

The B-12 supplement I use is Swanson Ultra Dr. Mercola's Vitamin B-12 Spray (http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU498/ItemDetail?n=0), but I do not know if it is pure vegan.

(The Swanson website has been painfully slow of late - not sure what's up with that.)

It needs to be this form Methylcobalamin otherwise your not getting the active form!!it does not mean your not getting it ,but I know its not as effective as the one I am taking.
http://www.naturalnews.com/027654_vitamin_B12_food_foods.html

Dennis Leahy
26th February 2011, 07:17
...This particular idea, I feel, is being pushed by many all over and it is extremely dangerous to the health of humanity. This idea is that we should all become vegetarian.

Vegetarianism, is exactly what "they" want for us. Grains are the most harmful food a human can eat - contrary to popular belief, and we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies. Please don't just disagree and stop reading because of what you have read in magazines, heard on tv, or even experienced for yourself about the benefits of going vegetarian. Or, because of the nonsense you have read about how we get all of the protein we need from plants. We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach.

...

I have saved my own life, and cured myself of over 15 symptoms ranging in severity by eating what is called he has called the Raw Primal Diet.

...

Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart.

Raw meat, and lots of raw animal fats are the healthiest, most cleansing things a person can eat. ALL of the info out there that tells us that meat and fat are bad for us are ALL based on cooked meat and fat.

How many nervous, high strung, scrawny vegans have we seen? I have seen LOTS.
I have also seen the few others - with the well developed muscular body and glowing health. They are mostly males under 50, and it won't last.

...

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

[OPINION]

I tried to snip out specific sections of your text where I disagree, and/or where I am surprised to hear the claims you're making.

Before we get into details, I will say that I don't tell people what to eat. I'm vegan by choice as I believe the literature I read that shows it to be the healthiest diet, with the least diseases, and the greatest longevity. (If asked to cite sources for my claims, I'd point to John Robbins' books, especially Diet For a New America.) Also, as a couple of other people here mentioned, even if I believed I would be stronger, or faster, or smarter, - or even if I believed I would live longer or be healthier - I would not eat any meat. I'm done with meat. (1976 for red meat; a few years later for fish and chicken; about 20 years ago went vegan.) Buddhist literature regarding vegetarianism rang true to me.

"...exactly what "they" want for us."
I think "they" don't give a rat's ass if we live or die, as long as enough of us are left to clean their swimming pools and scrub their toilets for them. Actually, that's not quite true - they do want most of us to die. (This coming year, your "organic, grass fed" steer will have a good chance of eating GMO alfalfa.) They don't care what we die of, what we eat, and whether we eat at all - as long as we keep spending our money and borrowing their money and doing their bidding.

"...we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies."
The literature I have read contradicts this. Amino acids create protein molecules, so it is true that we need amino acids for re-building and renewing our bodies. Like gorillas, elephants, and giraffes, we can get all our amino acids from plant material.

"We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach."
We certainly do not have a gut like a carnivore, and with the length of small intestine, it appears we evolved a way to extract amino acids from plant material. We cannot be carnivores (we would die.) We can choose to be omnivores or herbivores.

"I have saved my own life..."
I suspect this is true, and I suspect that your belief in this diet helped to turn your health around. I could be wrong about that, and if so, then I wonder if the human race can be subdivided not by race but by dietary criteria. If the hidden knowledge of ET "seeding" or hybridizing humanity is true, then maybe there are millions of folks just like you that need to eat meat. I actually doubt it, and I think every human can thrive on a vegan diet, but I suppose that could be a possibility if I'm wrong. Bodies do have cravings, natural cravings and sometimes what is craved seems unnatural. "Pica" is the condition of being compelled to eat dirt. My guess is that their bodies crave some nutrient in the dirt, but that they could get that nutrient need satisfied elsewhere. If they took a mineral supplement and did not eat dirt, I believe they could still have fully manifested symptoms, because their emotional need was not met. I have to say I believe that is possibly what happens when a vegetarian craves meat - that an emotional need is not being met, and we can manifest all sort of symptoms when that happens.

"Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart."
Hmmmmmm, well, I think that should have been surrounded with tags. True, vegetarians do start to fall apart at some point, but of course, all living creatures start to fall apart at some point - even Paleo or raw Primal practitioners are gonna fall apart. The statistics show vegetarians live longest and have the least disease. That's the statistics, not just my opinion.

I've got to admit that I'd be willing to bet that eating raw meat is not part of the statistical data set.

"Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it."
Guaranteeing vegans problems is a bold assertion, and the statistics contradict that. Maybe you feel great eating what you are eating - that doesn't mean the rest of humanity is guaranteed to have problems if they don't adhere to your diet.

I'll say the same thing John Robbins said, and tell you not to feel guilty or bad in any way when you eat that meat. Enjoy it and bless it. But I would ask that in your zeal that you are careful in the advice you give others and the guarantees that you profess.

There is also the matter of 7 billion people on Earth now, and (if we somehow stop the eugenicists), maybe 10 billion in a couple of decades. I think it is honest to admit that all of humanity cannot be fed if everyone eats meat (feeding half a dozen bushels of plant material into an animal to get back a pound of meat.) It is not sustainable. Luckily for humanity, our bodies are designed to be able to be healthy as vegetarians - even if it is not your ideal dietary choice.



Dennis

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 07:33
There is a lot of factors to it when eating a vegan/vegetarianism diet and one of them is the soil its growing on . If there is something wrong with this then your not getting what your buying. just wanted to add this. (EM and mycorhza for the soil )

http://www.backyardnature.net/f/mycorhza.htm
http://www.golden-mist.net/en/em.php

Paul
26th February 2011, 08:06
It needs to be this form Methylcobalamin

While researching the difference between methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin, I came across the following caveat from the Wikipedia page for Vitamin B12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12)

Finally, so-called pseudo-B12 refers to B12-like substances which are found in certain organisms, including Spirulina (a cyanobacterium) and some algae. These substances are active in tests of B12 activity by highly sensitive antibody-binding serum assay tests, which measure levels of B12 and B12-like compounds in blood. However, these substances do not have B12 biological activity for humans, a fact which may pose a danger to vegans and others on limited diets who do not ingest B12 producing bacteria, but who nevertheless may show normal "B12" levels in the standard immunoassay which has become the normal medical method for testing for B12 deficiency.
Bold emphasis added by myself.

If true, this could be important for vegetarians trying to maintain B-12 levels by consuming Spirulina.

As I write this, I realize that one such person is my son, living in California. Thank-you Mu2143. You may have just inadvertently helped someone you didn't even know.

P.S. -- There is much more good information on B-12 to be found on the Wikipedia page for Vitamin B12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12). I recommend reading it. Beware of course that Wikipedia is not always reliable on controversial subjects.

3optic
26th February 2011, 08:53
Aw Hell. I was thinking there were some good recipes here..

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 13:52
I purchased colostrum yesterday for boosting my health.

http://www.surthrival.com/

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 14:16
Thank you for taking it upon yourself to assign a 'feeling' onto me. Or rather impose it. You may have your feelings back, thanky very much, Chelmo. You are judging me by assigning me as upset now? No?

I suppose if someone doesn't notice the clash of counter conflicting beliefs here they wouldn't notice what amused irony is. If you bother to read my threads, you will find I'm not the one making judgements on what one is eating, I'm making ironic comments about the hypocritical expressions of the moralists. They put forth one belief and then oppose it a post later . A real stretch in grasping for ego comfort.

I find the colustrum admission particularly amusing.

Morbidly fascinating these moral trainwrecks.


*chuckle, chuckle*







The ones that do 'get' the sacredness of what the earth has given to us and doesn't seek to make such divisionary thoughts.

If its any consolation i tried my very hardest to stay out of this thread for exactly the reason you have stated.

It seems I do what I do to make myself happy and content. But by me denying and abstaining myself from something it clearly upsets you.... I am very sorry for this and I apologize if you feel I have judged you in any way.

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 14:19
Am I anxiously awaiting the debate on what morally proper type of air we should be breathing.

Limor Wolf
26th February 2011, 14:30
This talk was not about US,or what someone should do or not do in their lives,...this talk was about the suffer of others.other creatures are suffering,surely you can relate to that?!

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 15:14
I find the colustrum admission particularly amusing. waiting for your explanation on this one ,because you already made accusation without out one before. Explain this to others where my conflicting beliefs are.

I Am still waiting to get amused!!!

aroundthetable
26th February 2011, 15:32
If you contribute to the suffering of billions of living entities, you wont be getting in your ascension balloons anytime soon.

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 15:35
It is a perception of suffering. You are attempting to attach meaning to something that is without meaning. The moment you shift your perception about suffering, the suffering goes away. Spiritual laws aren't suspended just because we are talking about food.

Limor would you rather have me see you has a whole person and support you in that or some pathetic suffering being, and I can impose more suffering on you via my perception of you?

Plants conveniently don’t have any consciousness when a vegan wants to eat one. Animals are conveniently judged as superior moral beings therefore inviolable. This is more a subconscious core value that we are holding about ourselves. To cord into, and attach to the ‘perceived’ suffering of others is not compassion. It’s wallowing in our own inner wounds. You are then imposing suffering on others.

What is being expressed here is an “Us” paradigm but I didn’t create it. My first response in this thread didn’t chide the OP for her use of raw meat even though, I personally don’t subscribe to it. The Us vs Them mentality came from the veg morality and their dropping little judgements. They created that themselves.

And its a core form of prejudice that reflects back core values of ourselves.

So what is being expressed here is : Animals are more like us than plants therefore anything alien or not behaving as we do are not to be taken into consideration as having a conscious value. Because its sentiency isn’t expressed the same way ours is .

That is a prejudice.

One is expressing a core value of prejudice. Suffering is an attachment to the material world. Food is of the material world. Suffering via attachment is the oldest philosophical precept in existence. We experience suffering via experience with the material world, or we project suffering onto others based on our individual perception of what suffering is.


People suffer so of course they want to project that suffering on to anything whose sentiency resembles their own and see the perception of their own suffering in other things.
On a human level we project this onto each other racially and culturally. ‘Those’ people are less important because they are less like me. Isn't that what is being expressed here on a subtle level?

Plant vs. Animal prejudice. Humans tend to humanize and associate animals as having human traits so it’s easy to fall into the association of plants not having equal meaning. “An animal's suffering is like mine, but a plant’s isn’t." Which is like saying I don’t know if a plant suffers, its not squealing moaning or crying like a human or an animal so therefore it must not be suffering. It’s death throws are not so obvious so it must not equate death.

Humans are blind to each other’s suffering , their blind to their own suffering therefore create prejudices around others suffering. Do we really think we have the ability to ID suffering in subtler life forms? A bit arrogant eh?

We are born into world equal. We are born spiritual. It’s not something we have to develop or grow, we just have to recognize it. It is not necessary to clutter up what is already pure and shining with a bunch of beliefs about material things because spiritual is not of the material world. Especially things that sustain us all. It certainly doesn’t make one more spiritual and it doesn’t make one less spiritual.

Spiritual and sacred are not the same thing. We make things sacred by acknowledging the divinity in EVERYTHING (food –all kinds of foot fauna and flora )

We are also born into this world equally physical. None of us are more or less physical than the other there’s just those who use their spirituality deny their physicality because they have negative attachments to the material world. SELF (spiritual) denial equals self-denial vs those who don’t find it to be meaningful, therefore don’t put judgments on it. If one is denying something at least be honest on a spiritual and intellectual level about why they are denying it.

They want to ID into something elses suffering.

To say it’s purer to consume only plants is in what sense? Only the physical sense. It doesn’t make one more spiritual, you can’t make or create spiritual conditions they have been in place for as long as the spirit has been in existence.

It may help those whose physicality interferes with the psychic abilities, but psychic ability and spirituality are not the same thing. Neither are they sacred until one makes them so. Putting an judgment on all of the above is not sacred. Assigning suffering is a judgement.

To say that an animal can speak and suffer in death to feed us but a plant doesn’t is just a bias, a prop to support a faulty logic to our moral point of view and the association attachments we have with animals. Its mind created not spirit created.

Plants can and do communicate with even the lowest vibrational densest physically attached being in the same way all humans commonly communicate. With the tongue.
A plant will tell you the moment it hits your tongue if it is good to eat or bad to eat. If it’s acidic or alkaline. If it’s safe or not. It is communicating with you. That is why you so often see medicine people sticking twigs and leaves in their mouth and thoughtfully regarding them for a long time. They have plant helpers. And they will tell you that the plant is helping them. Then you go from there into a higher form of consciousness communication.

Grow some salvia divinorium plants and tell me they aren’t communicating with you. On an obvious level.

All foods plant or animal will do this if one takes their head out of the moral soapbox long enough to listen.

There are some foods we make agreements with. All of life is based on contracts and agreements . Food makes agreements with us that is expressed only on a physical level because food is only physical .

So if its agreeable to us on a physical level we make an agreement with it. It’s agreeable to us. Or disagreeable. I for one can’t eat lamb, it disagrees with me. Should I climb on a soap box and state that eating lamb is a form of death ingestion, because it makes me deathly ill, when death is all around me and pre exists in me all ready?

I have cells dying in my body, succumbing o death even as I consume it . Knowing that death is illusionary and just a doorway to life why would I make a meaning from death. Any death. . So I’d be straying into projecting illusionary concepts as a truth.

And that is the only thing I am pointing out here that people are trying to project meaning onto things that are meaningless.

If you want to make a statement for and of suffering look inside your own self and see where you are suffering that make one want to project it on to others.

This post is for those who made find other's judgements damaging and making them uncertain if their food choices are causing some spiritual error. Their not. Its meaningless. No one here is more or less spritual, pure, grander, or higher for what they consume.

For those who are embedded in this material food mindset I already know that what I expressed will not be understood.

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 15:39
I find the colustrum admission particularly amusing. waiting for your explanation on this one ,because you already made accusation without out one before. Explain this to others where my conflicting beliefs are.

I Am still waiting to get amused!!!

I edited my remark because on further reflection I couldn't recall precisely if you were the one who was making such a big issue out of animal consumption or not. If you were then I find it amusing that you would hypocritically consume colustrum and then berate others for their animal consumption. If you were not the one who one one had berated others for animal consumption then I edited my post for not making a remark based on faulty recall. Nor did I feel like weeding out a thousand threads to find out.

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 16:14
Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.
I agree with all you said there Sowelu and I LOVE your avatar!

But I must disagree with the statement above.

Humans have Hydrochloric acid (HCL) in their stomachs. You can't get a more potent while still biologically-compatible acid. It's a VERY VERY strong acid.

pardon my misquote :P, but what i meant to say was that their systems are designed to be more resilient than ours. Their saliva contains antibacterial agents such as lysozyme and their shorter digestive tracts make it harder for bacteria to colonize... they have digestive ENZYMES that we don't not acids

Hi Sowelu,

I would highly recommend that you read "We Want To Live". Just because a straight carnivore is MORE geared toward eating meat, doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to eat any. We are quite able to digest quite a bit. My digestive system was nearly destroyed when I began the raw primal diet - consisting of raw meat - and ironically I was able to digest raw meat better than anything else, and this is what lead to my recovery.

As for bacteria....YOU WANT MORE, not less in your body. Bacteria consume dead and diseased tissues, not healthy ones. Bacteria cleanse out toxins. Our bodies use bacteria for cleansing and healing. Please everyone read the book I keep ranting about :nod:

Love and Light, Rayne

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 16:32
I find the colustrum admission particularly amusing. waiting for your explanation on this one ,because you already made accusation without out one before. Explain this to others where my conflicting beliefs are.

I Am still waiting to get amused!!!

I edited my remark because on further reflection I couldn't recall precisely if you were the one who was making such a big issue out of animal consumption or not. If you were then I find it amusing that you would hypocritically consume colustrum and then berate others for their animal consumption. If you were not the one who one one had berated others for animal consumption then I edited my post for not making a remark based on faulty recall. Nor did I feel like weeding out a thousand threads to find out.

First of all I had not a problem with people consuming meat , but a problem with that you need to kill for food. Because then you create a space for it. Meat is addictive, if you want to stop its hard.
Second I explained here that if you getting food that was traumatised (being a destroyer) your not living a spiritual life (NOT LAW), because that's something you create in this world(belief system). ----->Belief system is mind control btw<---

Following a spiritual life is simple what your are!!!!not against it which is destroying your self. Its like your the river of energy that is flowing outwards creating reality, but instead you trying to stop it from doing so.

Thats why it is also called "The way"

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 16:37
We are all born spirtitual. We are all born composed of spiritual and physical, spirit and flesh, and there is NOTHING that we are going to eat, even if it kills us, sickens us that will change that.

The Powers That be have poisoned our food supply, and we poison it for each other with our toxic thoughts and actions.









I find the colustrum admission particularly amusing. waiting for your explanation on this one ,because you already made accusation without out one before. Explain this to others where my conflicting beliefs are.

I Am still waiting to get amused!!!

I edited my remark because on further reflection I couldn't recall precisely if you were the one who was making such a big issue out of animal consumption or not. If you were then I find it amusing that you would hypocritically consume colustrum and then berate others for their animal consumption. If you were not the one who one one had berated others for animal consumption then I edited my post for not making a remark based on faulty recall. Nor did I feel like weeding out a thousand threads to find out.

First of all I had not problem with people consuming meat , but a problem with that you need to kill for food. Because then you create a space for it. Meat is addictive, if you want to stop its hard.
Second I explained here that if you getting food that was traumatised (being a destroyer) your not living a spiritual life (NOT LAW), because that's something you create in this world(belief system).

Following a spiritual life is simple what your are!!!!not against it which is destroying your self. Its like your the river of energy that is flowing outwards creating reality, but instead you trying to stop it from doing so.

Thats why it is also called "The way"

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 16:42
...This particular idea, I feel, is being pushed by many all over and it is extremely dangerous to the health of humanity. This idea is that we should all become vegetarian.

Vegetarianism, is exactly what "they" want for us. Grains are the most harmful food a human can eat - contrary to popular belief, and we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies. Please don't just disagree and stop reading because of what you have read in magazines, heard on tv, or even experienced for yourself about the benefits of going vegetarian. Or, because of the nonsense you have read about how we get all of the protein we need from plants. We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach.

...

I have saved my own life, and cured myself of over 15 symptoms ranging in severity by eating what is called he has called the Raw Primal Diet.

...

Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart.

Raw meat, and lots of raw animal fats are the healthiest, most cleansing things a person can eat. ALL of the info out there that tells us that meat and fat are bad for us are ALL based on cooked meat and fat.

How many nervous, high strung, scrawny vegans have we seen? I have seen LOTS.
I have also seen the few others - with the well developed muscular body and glowing health. They are mostly males under 50, and it won't last.

...

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

[OPINION]

I tried to snip out specific sections of your text where I disagree, and/or where I am surprised to hear the claims you're making.

Before we get into details, I will say that I don't tell people what to eat. I'm vegan by choice as I believe the literature I read that shows it to be the healthiest diet, with the least diseases, and the greatest longevity. (If asked to cite sources for my claims, I'd point to John Robbins' books, especially Diet For a New America.) Also, as a couple of other people here mentioned, even if I believed I would be stronger, or faster, or smarter, - or even if I believed I would live longer or be healthier - I would not eat any meat. I'm done with meat. (1976 for red meat; a few years later for fish and chicken; about 20 years ago went vegan.) Buddhist literature regarding vegetarianism rang true to me.

"...exactly what "they" want for us."
I think "they" don't give a rat's ass if we live or die, as long as enough of us are left to clean their swimming pools and scrub their toilets for them. Actually, that's not quite true - they do want most of us to die. (This coming year, your "organic, grass fed" steer will have a good chance of eating GMO alfalfa.) They don't care what we die of, what we eat, and whether we eat at all - as long as we keep spending our money and borrowing their money and doing their bidding.

"...we all need meat for re-building and renewing our bodies."
The literature I have read contradicts this. Amino acids create protein molecules, so it is true that we need amino acids for re-building and renewing our bodies. Like gorillas, elephants, and giraffes, we can get all our amino acids from plant material.

"We are NOT cattle. We do NOT have more than one stomach."
We certainly do not have a gut like a carnivore, and with the length of small intestine, it appears we evolved a way to extract amino acids from plant material. We cannot be carnivores (we would die.) We can choose to be omnivores or herbivores.

"I have saved my own life..."
I suspect this is true, and I suspect that your belief in this diet helped to turn your health around. I could be wrong about that, and if so, then I wonder if the human race can be subdivided not by race but by dietary criteria. If the hidden knowledge of ET "seeding" or hybridizing humanity is true, then maybe there are millions of folks just like you that need to eat meat. I actually doubt it, and I think every human can thrive on a vegan diet, but I suppose that could be a possibility if I'm wrong. Bodies do have cravings, natural cravings and sometimes what is craved seems unnatural. "Pica" is the condition of being compelled to eat dirt. My guess is that their bodies crave some nutrient in the dirt, but that they could get that nutrient need satisfied elsewhere. If they took a mineral supplement and did not eat dirt, I believe they could still have fully manifested symptoms, because their emotional need was not met. I have to say I believe that is possibly what happens when a vegetarian craves meat - that an emotional need is not being met, and we can manifest all sort of symptoms when that happens.

"Now, what I want to say about vegetarianism.....It works for most, pretty much healthy, people at first. Sometimes they experience health for many years, but it doesn't work forever. The body and digestive system begins to break down, and everything falls apart."
Hmmmmmm, well, I think that should have been surrounded with tags. True, vegetarians do start to fall apart at some point, but of course, all living creatures start to fall apart at some point - even Paleo or raw Primal practitioners are gonna fall apart. The statistics show vegetarians live longest and have the least disease. That's the statistics, not just my opinion.

I've got to admit that I'd be willing to bet that eating raw meat is not part of the statistical data set.

"Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it."
Guaranteeing vegans problems is a bold assertion, and the statistics contradict that. Maybe you feel great eating what you are eating - that doesn't mean the rest of humanity is guaranteed to have problems if they don't adhere to your diet.

I'll say the same thing John Robbins said, and tell you not to feel guilty or bad in any way when you eat that meat. Enjoy it and bless it. But I would ask that in your zeal that you are careful in the advice you give others and the guarantees that you profess.

There is also the matter of 7 billion people on Earth now, and (if we somehow stop the eugenicists), maybe 10 billion in a couple of decades. I think it is honest to admit that all of humanity cannot be fed if everyone eats meat (feeding half a dozen bushels of plant material into an animal to get back a pound of meat.) It is not sustainable. Luckily for humanity, our bodies are designed to be able to be healthy as vegetarians - even if it is not your ideal dietary choice.



Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I will quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz here...

"Our intestines are 2 1/2 times shorter than most hervibores. We have only one stomach, while herbivores have 2 - 4 stomachs. Herbivores have nearly 60,000 times more enzymes than we have to disassemble cellulose (plant fiber) to obtain the fat and proteins from vegetation and grain. Vegetable fiber passes through an herbivore's digestive system in about 48 hours. In our digestive tracts, vegetables complete their journey in 24 hours. Only a fraction of the cellulose is digested. Sixty-five percent of the protein and fat are undigested." Now, considering how little protein and fat are in vegetation - if we only are able to digest 35% of it, that does and WILL ALWAYS lead to malnutrition.

"Our gastrointestinal tract is not like that of birds. Birds can eat a lot of grain and seeds and digest them with their gizzards. We do not have a gizzard or an alternative way of eating grain that is health-giving. We cannot properly digest grain for cellular reproduction and healing, EVEN IF SPROUTED. Sprouted grains are vegetables. As stated above, we do not digest vegetables well. Germinated seeds contain enxyme suppressors that prevent proper protein digestion, utilization and assimilation, causing protein deficiency."

"When humans eat a lot of fruit, they incur health problems, such as osteoporosis, toothe degeneration, anxiety, dryness, diabetes, hyperactivity, attetion deficit disorder, hyperactivity, over emotionality and temperature sensitivity. Unlike pure frugivores and herbivores, we mainly have an acidic digestive tract, including acidic bacteria that facilitate the prevention and reversal of cancer. More than a little raw high carb fruit over alkalinizes the intestines. Intestinal over akalnity destroys proper protein and fat digestion and suppresses appetite for raw meat. This destroys our ability to combine many foods and impairs the natural acidic environment of our bowels. A sugar rich environment caused by high carb fruits results in fungal problems, such as candida and other yeast infections. Eating more than a little fruit causes severe fat and protein deficiencies. In women, that causes bloating and menstrual cramps." - something that I no longer experience :)

"Carnivores, such as cats and dogs, mainly eat meat. Our digestive juices are most similar to carnivores. In their stomachs, the hydrochloric acid concentration is 15 times greater than in humans so that they digest meat in 10 hours (raw), which accommodates their very short intestines. Humans, however, produce an equal amount of hydrochloric acid throughout the stomach and intestines combined, allowing raw meat and other raw animal products to digest easily and efficiently in our much longer digestive tract within 16 hours. Cooked meat takes up to 36 hours and is accompanied with putrefaction, heterocyclic amines, acrylamides and lipid peroxides not found in the digestive tract when raw meats are eaten. Our teeth are designed for cutting and crushing meat with the help of our dexterous hands."

Myself, and all of the other people who are partaking of this diet have found his conclusions to be true and effective for curing and preventing disease. There has been no one, who has followed this diet who has had a negative or non - healing reaction. It has been found to affect EVERYONE the same way. No other diet, medicine, or supplement can make this claim.

Love and Light, Rayne

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 16:48
This talk was not about US,or what someone should do or not do in their lives,...this talk was about the suffer of others.other creatures are suffering,surely you can relate to that?!

No, this talk IS about US. WE are part of this world, we have a right to be here and eat what we were designed to eat. And this is the subject of this conversation - what we are meant to eat for optimum health and the health of the planet.

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 16:56
I will keep it simple try to find out what spirit really is and what a belief system is , because if it does not come from the spirit its mind control its that simple.
Any spirit directly connect to it creator does not need to think it knows, so you will never find 2 of them disagreeing with one another.

If you not try to understand what the difference is between it then your never going to anyway

An example of mind control is----
People who belief that wild animals who kill others for food to survive is how nature has evolved.

Hint - genetic engineering exist a little bit longer than this civilization (Pigs are a hybrid being and its a cross between a wild boar and a human)

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 16:57
If you contribute to the suffering of billions of living entities, you wont be getting in your ascension balloons anytime soon.

Are you talking about factory farms? Are you talking about the commercial meat industry? If you are then you haven't read this thread as those options have already been condemned for what they are - cruel, abusive, polluting, and an animal version of Hitlers concentration camps. They need to be shut down.

We are what we eat, and eating abused, enslaved, poisoned, and tortured animals, causes us to absorb that energy. This is definitely not what any of us wants.

Personally I believe that meat should be handled this way...

Killing animals for meat is something that should be considered a special career, and an art form. This person should be skilled in the ART of killing. I use the term art because this, like every skill, should be done with love and awareness.

The killing should be done in a way that the animal hardly is even aware of what is happening. The Jewish people's method of Kosher killing is like this. There are other ways as well. It should be a respected occupation that requires learning and using these skills.

Before the animal is killed it should be allowed to live as close as possible to how nature intended for it. It should have freedom to run, play, mate, eat what is natural for it, and enjoy it's life.

Love and Light, Rayne

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 17:01
Spirit is not a belief system.

A beleif system is created in an attempt to understand the Spirit, and is usually faulty because the spirit has no belief system.

Spirit is an experience, a belief is a thought.

If you have to think then you don't know. Understanding is not knowing, its complete embrasure of a belief system.

Spirit doesn't need to understand anything. It knows

Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.


I will keep it simple try to find out what spirit really is and what a belief system is , because if it does not come from the spirit its mind control its that simple.
Any spirit directly connect to it creator does not need to think it knows, so you will never find 2 of them disagreeing with one another.

If you not try to understand what the difference is between it then your never going to anyway

An example of mind control is----
People who belief that wild animals who kill others for food to survive is how nature has evolved.

Hint - genetic engineering exist a little bit longer than this civilization (Pigs are a hybrid being and its a cross between a wild boar and a human)

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 17:04
I will keep it simple try to find out what spirit really is and what a belief system is , because if it does not come from the spirit its mind control its that simple.
Any spirit directly connect to it creator does not need to think it knows, so you will never find 2 of them disagreeing with one another.

If you not try to understand what the difference is between it then your never going to anyway

An example of mind control is----
People who belief that wild animals who kill others for food to survive is how nature has evolved.

Hint - genetic engineering exist a little bit longer than this civilization (Pigs are a hybrid being and its a cross between a wild boar and a human)

Ok, this is a new thread entirely- that I would love to read. Very intersting. Human and pig???? Carnivores aren't???? Please tell more.

Love and Light, Rayne

Carmody
26th February 2011, 17:04
Now, about the subject of animal abuse in the food industry. This is the real problem as well as all of the pollution created by factory farms. This must stop.

Professional hunting needs to replace this abusive destructive situation. Hunting should once again become the respected occupation it once was. And I don't mean by ridiculously terrifying things like chasing down animals with helicopters.

Besides for the animal abuse, and pollution, the fact remains "we are what we eat". When we eat abused, enslaved, tortured animals who never see the light of day or get to play and run, then we take on that energy. The Native Americans knew this. The elite know this. Why do you think they spend huge sums of money to go somewhere and eat Tiger, or some other powerful wild animals?

We are part of this Earth. We are part of the food chain. Killing to eat is not wrong, it's being what we are. It is allowing ourselves to be, and live. People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy. Please do not believe all of what you hear about food poisoning, or e-coli, or salmonella either. Aajonus explains the truth about that too. I have been on this diet for 1 1/2 years now, and have never gotten food poisoning. That is a scam created by Big Food corps.

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

So..when someone asks me, 'how was your steak?', My answer could be....'mmmnn, not so bad. Pretty OK.'

Most people just eat the steak, and don't understand the trade off. I'm living within the trade-off.

Every second of it.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 17:14
Morbidly fascinating these moral trainwrecks.


Not sure really were I go with this, other than I wish you well on your journey....

Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that I am not judging you.

I wish you well on your journey.

I hope you can find contentment and happiness on your path to enlightenment. If or course that is what you are looking for.

I'm sorry If you feel I have emulated something onto you this was not my intention.

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 17:18
If you have to think then you don't know No, we think because we fell in to time and lost our spiritual light (we forgot ,but its still there if you have access to it directly you know and now you need to think and thinking takes a lot of time and we fell a lot in to time).


Spirit is not a belief system. if people talk about it does not mean they understand it.


Understanding is not knowing, its complete embrasure of a belief system. Understanding is getting back what you always have known by thinking things out and it cost time.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 17:19
Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 17:29
I have heard some of you promoting supplements, and I would like to again, quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz...

"All vitamin supplements are merely portions of the vitamin, like bran is to a grain. They are not what we are led to believe the are, and will not do what we believe they will do. Extraction processes alter nutrients and poison them. Once a nutrient is isolated from its' bioactive form and extracted, it is no longer bioactive. If it is not in food form, it is not raw or bioactive. Pill, powder, and liquid supplements are only 2 - 12% utilizable, and are 88 - 98% waste that will be isolated and eliminated, leeching and usurping our bodies innate vital nutrients."

"Most pill, powder, and liquid supplements create a toxic high similar to the high created by caffeine, causing a rise of hormones, such as adrenaline, that buffer, hide, or arrest symptoms without resolving disease and without effecting cure."

"Decades of research proved that the body manufactures adrenaline in response to injury and most poisons that enter the blood stream. Hormonal rushes and cessation of symptoms are usually interpreted and marketed as increased health. Therefore, people think falsely that suppplements work to increase health and cure disease. Like medications, supplements are drugs."

"Our vitamin, enzyme and mineral suppplementation should be fresh raw green vegetable juices."

Vitamin and mineral supplements are just another failed arrogant attempt of man to try and outdo nature. Nature provided everything we need, and in balance, but we have never stopped trying to screw it up, and do it better. Won't happen!

Love and Light, Rayne

Carmody
26th February 2011, 17:30
Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

I try never to attack someone else's truth and I always try to express my own as a question, rather than as a reality.

In that moment I find that the question is inside of me, or is inside of the other, and is not external.

My point here is that I must strive to not set up the antagonistic state of ping ponging reflection, as that is seemingly a good portion of the problem itself. Ego reflection.

Some might say it is necessary, but only as long as one feels it is. I find that the mind gets to where it needs to be when that aspect settles down and stops masking core considerations.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 17:31
When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

I have had similar problems, perhaps not quite in the same way although it really was knocking me out of balance.... After becoming vegan I felt liberated like a weight had been lifted. Not straight away it was a gradual process of change.

I now feel complete, whole, happy. Apart from all the **** that's going on in the world but inside I feel much better.

It very much a personal journey one where I am not judging any one else, this is about me how I feel inside.

Carmody
26th February 2011, 17:36
When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

I have had similar problems, perhaps not quite in the same way although it really was knocking me out of balance.... After becoming vegan I felt liberated like a weight had been lifted. Not straight away it was a gradual process of change.

I now feel complete, whole, happy. Apart from all the **** that's going on in the world but inside I feel much better.

It very much a personal journey one where I am not judging any one else, this is about me how I feel inside.

In my understanding it is not the the dietary change but the inner change. As a pair. One must not just remove the caustic and the damaging but one must then face the ego and make the inner changes, otherwise becoming a vegan (to get rid of the lower and fear vibrations from the factory farming, etc) was all for naught.

'militant vegan' is a powerful oxymoron, IMO.

Strat
26th February 2011, 17:36
I exercise daily, watch what I eat, and try to stay healthy. I am fascinated with all the different kinds of diets one can choose. I clicked on this thread expecting dietary information. This is closer to a religious debate, with people offering their thoughts and opinions. There is not so much dietary information I expected. Shame.

There is a reoccurring argument in here that it is immoral to eat meat. I don't agree with this because I think ones morals change from person to person. There are no concrete defined set of morals that we can all stick too. It is opinionated. It's like arguing your favorite color, "But my car is so sexy in red!"

Exodus 29:16: "And thou shalt slay the ram, and thou shalt take his blood, and sprinkle it round about upon the altar."

Crazy, right? This was the highest form of spirituality at the time. Those words (supposedly) came from God himself. Say what you want about Christians, the Bible and all that, but it is spiritual. If you don't want people to listen to the Bible, you need to give people a good reason to listen to you. Keep in mind there is a person waiting in line behind you to tell me what's REALLY spiritual. I understand you (the reader) may have strong convictions, we all do.

Native Americans are often looked at as some of the most spiritual people to ever have walked this earth (despite wild practices varying from tribe to tribe). There is a saying, "Chase two rabbits and lose them both." They were meat eaters as well.

It is not natural for the human animal to eat plants alone. This is a recent phenomenon, we have the ability to make that choice because of our overabundance of food. History has proven this read, 'Guns, Germs, And Steel.' If the hunter gatherers didn't eat meat, we wouldn't be tapping away on our keyboards. They were people, they were hungry, and their kids were hungry, so they ate what they could find. Eating meat is natural, we have incisors.

For the health argument, I'm all ears. I am yet to hear how it will benefit my health. As I said, I run, I work out, I lift weights, I spar my peers in martial arts, I need protein. I eat meat, and I still have to take protein supplements or else I'll be sore for days. I wont be able to perform as well as my peers do. I can't imagine living on plants alone. If you see a statistic that says "X vegetable contains Y% of protein," that doesn't say much. What that's saying is, of its makeup, it has more protein than fiber or whatever. So if you eat a serving of broccoli, you may get six grams of protein, you'll get literally four times that much from a serving of steak. Look it up.

I do agree that animal husbandry has evolved into perverse practices. It's really hard to watch documentaries that show food processing plants, or chicken coops where the chickens don't see light and they can't walk. I feel that is wrong. I am actively trying to find more natural, free range alternatives. This is how I act against it, I don't buy their products.

For the vegetarians in here I just ask you one thing: If you have kids please, please make sure you know the ins and outs of the vegetarian diet. For their sake, set aside the spiritual aspect and look into the nutritional. Don't let your emotions get in the way. Emotional decisions are typically wrong decisions.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 17:39
I try never to attack someone else's truth and I always try to express my own as a question, rather than as a reality.

In that moment I find that the question is inside of me, or is inside of the other, and is not external.

My point here is that I must strive to not set up the antagonistic state of ping ponging reflection, as that is seemingly a good portion of the problem itself. Ego reflection.

Some might say it is necessary, but only as long as one feels it is. I find that the mind gets to where it needs to be when that aspect settles down and stops masking core considerations.

Thank you for this

Dennis Leahy
26th February 2011, 17:40
Hi Dennis,

I will quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz here...

"Our intestines are ...
Our teeth are designed for cutting and crushing meat with the help of our dexterous hands."

Myself, and all of the other people who are partaking of this diet have found his conclusions to be true and effective for curing and preventing disease. There has been no one, who has followed this diet who has had a negative or non - healing reaction. It has been found to affect EVERYONE the same way. No other diet, medicine, or supplement can make this claim.

Love and Light, Rayne
Hi Rayne,

Would you agree that even if you are correct (that Raw Primal, including raw flesh is the ideal human diet), that it is unsustainable on a planetary level?

If Vonderplanitz is correct, and it is universally true for all humans, then I'd say in my spiritual path that I have made a decision to incarnate into a body that might thrive by eating some raw flesh of other animals, or that can survive in relative health without eating any flesh of other animals, that I choose to survive in relative health while here on Earth.

We all die, we all experience bacteriological and viral attacks on our bodies (sickness.) I don't think I'm here on this earth just to experience personal optimum health, especially at the expense of other animals and with full knowledge that I can survive in (at least) relative health without killing and eating animals.

[ABSURD EXAMPLE]I know this is absurd, but play along with me on this: what if you found out that you would live for 300 years, in superhuman health, with heightened powers like the ability to heal and levitate, if you drank all the blood from a virgin human child once a year. Would you do it?[/ABSURD EXAMPLE]

The absurd example is where I have gotten to as far as eating animal flesh goes. Vonderplanitz might convince me that his ideas are indeed the ideal human diet, but I won't eat the flesh of animals. I'm willing to suffer (if true) the consequences of not eating flesh, and I'm not willing to suffer the emotional/spiritual consequences that I would face by eating flesh.

Dennis

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 17:49
When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

I have had similar problems, perhaps not quite in the same way although it really was knocking me out of balance.... After becoming vegan I felt liberated like a weight had been lifted. Not straight away it was a gradual process of change.

I now feel complete, whole, happy. Apart from all the **** that's going on in the world but inside I feel much better.

It very much a personal journey one where I am not judging any one else, this is about me how I feel inside.

The positive change you experienced is not the result of going vegan. It is for at least 2 reasons...

1. If you are like the majority, you were eating your meat cooked. Cooked meat is harmful like all cooked foods. Raw meat is not.
2. You were eating factory farmed, not free range local, and organic meat before you became vegan. You then stopped eating the negative emotions and poisoned chemicals found in factory farmed meats. This will always lead to increased health.

I have experienced the same and perhaps better (because I recovered from a fatal disease) results from changing over to the raw primal diet as many of you have from "going vegan". Veganism works to a degree and then fails. The raw primal diet does not - it actually reverses aging.

I wish there weren't so many people like yourself who equate eating meat with factory farming, and cruelty to animals. I am a meat eater - a raw meat eater- and I do not eat meat that comes from abused, factory farmed animals.

Love and Light,
Rayne

Peace of Mind
26th February 2011, 18:00
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Hi there, Rayne T...

I see where you're coming from...and going.

I used to play football, so I was always a health nut. What I and a few others I know experienced was more of a mental spiritual lifting when we decided to end our flesh eating.

I remember being told that spirits from the highest realm come to talk to you but they are hesitant when you have a certain type of energy signature…meaning the negative energy in the consumption of death/flesh. This is real to me because I’ve been involved in and witnessed some very negative things before my transition. Now I’m experiencing some beautiful things in life, my body is going through some unexplainable changes (heightened senses and possibly unlocking dormant abilities). My mind has become so vivid that most of my thoughts seem to need a complex language to explain them.

When ever I smell cooked flesh it’s nauseating. Eating flesh will most certainly make me sick because my body is cleansed of it. All my body’s cells are re-new and not one of them needs a pinch of meat to operate to their full potential.

Mostly every report giving to the masses from the FDA or any controlled institution are filled with lies. All they want to do is make you sick so they can drug you. They tell you what your body needs instead of you listening to it yourself. None of this is Rocket science…people just need to trust themselves…I can’t say that enough.

My body tells me the truth not some person who has never met me or done any health test on me. I don’t need someone with selfish plans to inform me on how to take care of myself. My mind, body and soul are thankful for that. What I write here is my testimony; but, it might mean something to someone who is considering a change in their energy field.

I know animals are intelligent species; it’s unfortunate that most humans don’t have the capacity or patience to learn from them.

As I said in an earlier post I’m prepared to die before I put another piece of dead flesh inside God’s temple. Death is no stranger to me. Seen it and almost became it. I don’t fear it one bit because we will meet in due time…so I will live in complete LIFE until then. Fear is not a part of me; I actually despise (lack of a better word) cowards, because they hinder the WHOLE by being hesitant in doing their part. Maybe people have too much fear because that is part of the energy they consume from meat….how were the animals feeling before they were killed for food? I actually feel sorry for the ones that do fear death...they will have no problem taking another innocent life just to save their own, when it probably should be the other way around. The global conditioning has been efficient…as well as damaging.

We are only going to be living for a minute, so I’ve learned to not fear the inevitable. Life here is temporary, my existence out of this body matters more to me than what I do while occupying it,temporarily. In other words…this is part of my preparation for that unavoidable journey outside of the meat suit we’re currently carrying. So, I’m glad for my being as you should be for yours…

I’m not here to convince anyone, but to leave something to ponder for those that are interested. After all…the choice has always been yours…that’s what this school called Earth is all about…

Peace

Hi, thanks for your post. I don't eat cooked meat. Cooked is certainly dead. I eat meat raw, that 's what the raw primal diet is based on- that and raw fats, veggies, fruits, and unheated honey.

I can say that I have a pretty clear clean connection with my High Self and guides now, none of the fear and negativity that you are imagining. No disrespect intended, but you have some beliefs and emotional charges around these issues. You say you "despise" cowards, and you sound very judgemental - this is projection.


Love and Light, Rayne

Hi, Rayne T,

Meat is dead. It came from an animal that was once enjoying life with its family and friends...correct me if I’m wrong. Sorry if you take offence to the 2 words in one of my posts. But there really is no other (accurate) way to describe people willing to eat innocent but are reluctant to face their known enemy. We know why we are in the predicament we’re in, and we know it isn’t cows/pigs/chicken ruining the world. You call it judgmental, I call it excuses. Every creature materialized here on this planet for a reason, even the Great roach….which have been here for millennia and hasn’t destroyed a thing…but most humans despised them. If any of these creatures were meant for you to eat they would glady hope on your dinner plate.

Since we're here chewing the fat, answer this if you don't mind? Out of all the species on this planet…which one is not really doing their job? Is this same creature building a world for the whole or for self? Until that creature/monster realizes just what it is… the world will become a wasteland before a paradise. I’m against anything holding us back from paradise…even my fellow human. I rather not be, but I have to be real with my self if I expect to make true progress. This is the way I'm wired.

Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Chinaski,

If you don’t believe what I have to say that’s cool with me. And I’m definitely not going to tell you what to do. I’m just providing some insight to those that are interested. It’s not hard for me to see why you and others are dealing with certain health issues. If you think you need meat then you will…it’s really that simple. I don’t believe “I need to eat another animal or I’ll die.” If you want to, fine. I’m sure many don’t.
I’m speaking on behalf of the animals, and maybe some that are against flesh eating because of what it does (as I explained). I hope you do know at the time of these animals death they excrete toxins into the blood…which the flesh is soaked in, right?

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune.
I highly doubt that. Besides, I’m not really impressed with the current state of the world to make such a selfish sacrifice anyway. So the idea of death would be more inviting than you know. I’m sure my ideas of death are very different than yours.
i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process.

Are you even sure the doctors aren’t the ones making people sick? I wonder how many of them people know how to heal themselves, most not be many because they wouldn’t be in there in the first place. The healthcare industry is more of a biz than a lifeline. Learn to heal your body by meditation. The body is a magnificent machine. Meds don’t heal; they only assist you in tolerating the pain while the body does the rest (placebo). Pain is in the mind, its only there to tell you that there is something wrong, control the mind and you will control the pain.
There are (very graphic) vids on youtube showing a few Muslims tolerance to pain. They stick knives thru their arms, neck, mouths, and tongues. There is even one scene where one guy lodged a machete in the top of one of his brother’s head. All this was done while they sang and dance. It was a bloody display but very educational.

are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

Again, I don’t buy the “need meat to live” theories, there are substitutes. Even the "so called" need for b12 can be found in dirt, sea plants and a can of RedBull (if you trust the FDA)…not to mentioned supplements. But I do not recommend drugs of any kind to people, I can’t even remember the last time I was sick.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

Do you really see my post as being judgmental? I don’t waste time posting nonsense, and I rarely engage in small talk because there is little time for that. Every post I make here is from the heart, my intentions are pure. Sorry to see how sensitive you are about this, just imagine how the animals feel…

I doubt I’ll respond to this thread again, there really isn’t anything else to add on the subject, My post are not personal, if you take them that way…maybe you need to re-read them and/or reflect on them a bit longer. Then re-read yours. The problem might be closer than you originally thought.

Live well...

Peace

Hi, I understand your position on this, but it would help if you would read my opening thread before jumping to conclusions. I was a vegetarian when I developed all of my health problems, and was nearly dead. I'm not going to relist all of my symptoms again here, and write the entire story over again.

I also explained how I healed myself with the raw primal diet. I didn't use doctors. I believe food is our medicine. However, if a person won't eat a healthy diet for them, they do end up in hospitals - exactly what I avoided. They end up in hospitals and doctors do what they can. They can't make someone eat raw meat and raw fat, they can only try to kill microbes, viruses and try to kill tumors and cancer cells. I don't agree at all with their approach but if a person is going to insist on a bad diet, it's the only other option.

Love and Light, Rayne

It’s called adaptation. When certain animals started eating meat (due to Human ways of destroying the land) they had to change, they became SAVAGE. Everything found in meat (raw or cooked) can be found elsewhere… Tell me what’s in meat that you can’t find in the land. I’m sure I can find it for you…

Peace

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 18:10
Hi Dennis,

I will quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz here...

"Our intestines are ...
Our teeth are designed for cutting and crushing meat with the help of our dexterous hands."

Myself, and all of the other people who are partaking of this diet have found his conclusions to be true and effective for curing and preventing disease. There has been no one, who has followed this diet who has had a negative or non - healing reaction. It has been found to affect EVERYONE the same way. No other diet, medicine, or supplement can make this claim.

Love and Light, Rayne
Hi Rayne,

Would you agree that even if you are correct (that Raw Primal, including raw flesh is the ideal human diet), that it is unsustainable on a planetary level?

If Vonderplanitz is correct, and it is universally true for all humans, then I'd say in my spiritual path that I have made a decision to incarnate into a body that might thrive by eating some raw flesh of other animals, or that can survive in relative health without eating any flesh of other animals, that I choose to survive in relative health while here on Earth.

We all die, we all experience bacteriological and viral attacks on our bodies (sickness.) I don't think I'm here on this earth just to experience personal optimum health, especially at the expense of other animals and with full knowledge that I can survive in (at least) relative health without killing and eating animals.

[ABSURD EXAMPLE]I know this is absurd, but play along with me on this: what if you found out that you would live for 300 years, in superhuman health, with heightened powers like the ability to heal and levitate, if you drank all the blood from a virgin human child once a year. Would you do it?[/ABSURD EXAMPLE]

The absurd example is where I have gotten to as far as eating animal flesh goes. Vonderplanitz might convince me that his ideas are indeed the ideal human diet, but I won't eat the flesh of animals. I'm willing to suffer (if true) the consequences of not eating flesh, and I'm not willing to suffer the emotional/spiritual consequences that I would face by eating flesh.

Dennis

The raw primal diet is far more sustainable than the vegetarian diet. Here are some of the benefits...

#Encourages eating locally and in season - eat mostly plants during growing season, and eat mostly meats in winter. Flow with nature.
# Easy to digest and supplies all of our nutritional needs
# Requires no processing and minimal packaging
# Supports local, organic, and free range farms
# Doesn't require excessive amounts of labor to supply food
# Doesn't require the use of supplements and expensive exotic superfoods
# Doesn't involve GMO's, harmful chemicals, and dangerous industrial chemicals
#Doesn't require that we waste land that could be grazing and free space for wild animals, for farming beans and grains that are harmful to us anyway.

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. Not one person yet has been able to tell me what we can eat as a vegan, that doesn't require that we eat expensive exotic superfoods, cooked foods, grains, rice, beans, nuts and seeds. This list is indigestible, unhealthy, and/or ridiculously expensive.

Rather than argue anymore about the moral issues of whether to kill or not, first I would like to hear someone give me a list of foods that is vegan and will provide all of our dietary needs.

Honestly Dennis, the way I see it...you think you are higher than God, or higher than Nature. This has been man's problem from the beginning. You can't do it better than nature, and the key to "going back to the garden" is to learn to flow with, and harmonize with nature.

There is no such thing as a bacterial, or viral attack on our bodies, period. Please read the damn book, lol. Our bodies use bacteria and virus to cleanse toxins - toxins that our modern "civilized" trying to be better than God lives have created. It is the toxins that are attacking us.

Dennis, I know how to live for more than 300 years with "superhuman" health and powers. Ha ha, and I don't need to drink the blood of any human virgin children.

Love and Light, Rayne

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 18:16
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Hi there, Rayne T...

I see where you're coming from...and going.

I used to play football, so I was always a health nut. What I and a few others I know experienced was more of a mental spiritual lifting when we decided to end our flesh eating.

I remember being told that spirits from the highest realm come to talk to you but they are hesitant when you have a certain type of energy signature…meaning the negative energy in the consumption of death/flesh. This is real to me because I’ve been involved in and witnessed some very negative things before my transition. Now I’m experiencing some beautiful things in life, my body is going through some unexplainable changes (heightened senses and possibly unlocking dormant abilities). My mind has become so vivid that most of my thoughts seem to need a complex language to explain them.

When ever I smell cooked flesh it’s nauseating. Eating flesh will most certainly make me sick because my body is cleansed of it. All my body’s cells are re-new and not one of them needs a pinch of meat to operate to their full potential.

Mostly every report giving to the masses from the FDA or any controlled institution are filled with lies. All they want to do is make you sick so they can drug you. They tell you what your body needs instead of you listening to it yourself. None of this is Rocket science…people just need to trust themselves…I can’t say that enough.

My body tells me the truth not some person who has never met me or done any health test on me. I don’t need someone with selfish plans to inform me on how to take care of myself. My mind, body and soul are thankful for that. What I write here is my testimony; but, it might mean something to someone who is considering a change in their energy field.

I know animals are intelligent species; it’s unfortunate that most humans don’t have the capacity or patience to learn from them.

As I said in an earlier post I’m prepared to die before I put another piece of dead flesh inside God’s temple. Death is no stranger to me. Seen it and almost became it. I don’t fear it one bit because we will meet in due time…so I will live in complete LIFE until then. Fear is not a part of me; I actually despise (lack of a better word) cowards, because they hinder the WHOLE by being hesitant in doing their part. Maybe people have too much fear because that is part of the energy they consume from meat….how were the animals feeling before they were killed for food? I actually feel sorry for the ones that do fear death...they will have no problem taking another innocent life just to save their own, when it probably should be the other way around. The global conditioning has been efficient…as well as damaging.

We are only going to be living for a minute, so I’ve learned to not fear the inevitable. Life here is temporary, my existence out of this body matters more to me than what I do while occupying it,temporarily. In other words…this is part of my preparation for that unavoidable journey outside of the meat suit we’re currently carrying. So, I’m glad for my being as you should be for yours…

I’m not here to convince anyone, but to leave something to ponder for those that are interested. After all…the choice has always been yours…that’s what this school called Earth is all about…

Peace

Hi, thanks for your post. I don't eat cooked meat. Cooked is certainly dead. I eat meat raw, that 's what the raw primal diet is based on- that and raw fats, veggies, fruits, and unheated honey.

I can say that I have a pretty clear clean connection with my High Self and guides now, none of the fear and negativity that you are imagining. No disrespect intended, but you have some beliefs and emotional charges around these issues. You say you "despise" cowards, and you sound very judgemental - this is projection.


Love and Light, Rayne

Hi, Rayne T,

Meat is dead. It came from an animal that was once enjoying life with its family and friends...correct me if I’m wrong. Sorry if you take offence to the 2 words in one of my posts. But there really is no other (accurate) way to describe people willing to eat innocent but are reluctant to face their known enemy. We know why we are in the predicament we’re in, and we know it isn’t cows/pigs/chicken ruining the world. You call it judgmental, I call it excuses. Every creature materialized here on this planet for a reason, even the Great roach….which have been here for millennia and hasn’t destroyed a thing…but most humans despised them. If any of these creatures were meant for you to eat they would glady hope on your dinner plate.

Since we're here chewing the fat, answer this if you don't mind? Out of all the species on this planet…which one is not really doing their job? Is this same creature building a world for the whole or for self? Until that creature/monster realizes just what it is… the world will become a wasteland before a paradise. I’m against anything holding us back from paradise…even my fellow human. I rather not be, but I have to be real with my self if I expect to make true progress. This is the way I'm wired.

Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Chinaski,

If you don’t believe what I have to say that’s cool with me. And I’m definitely not going to tell you what to do. I’m just providing some insight to those that are interested. It’s not hard for me to see why you and others are dealing with certain health issues. If you think you need meat then you will…it’s really that simple. I don’t believe “I need to eat another animal or I’ll die.” If you want to, fine. I’m sure many don’t.
I’m speaking on behalf of the animals, and maybe some that are against flesh eating because of what it does (as I explained). I hope you do know at the time of these animals death they excrete toxins into the blood…which the flesh is soaked in, right?

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune.
I highly doubt that. Besides, I’m not really impressed with the current state of the world to make such a selfish sacrifice anyway. So the idea of death would be more inviting than you know. I’m sure my ideas of death are very different than yours.
i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process.

Are you even sure the doctors aren’t the ones making people sick? I wonder how many of them people know how to heal themselves, most not be many because they wouldn’t be in there in the first place. The healthcare industry is more of a biz than a lifeline. Learn to heal your body by meditation. The body is a magnificent machine. Meds don’t heal; they only assist you in tolerating the pain while the body does the rest (placebo). Pain is in the mind, its only there to tell you that there is something wrong, control the mind and you will control the pain.
There are (very graphic) vids on youtube showing a few Muslims tolerance to pain. They stick knives thru their arms, neck, mouths, and tongues. There is even one scene where one guy lodged a machete in the top of one of his brother’s head. All this was done while they sang and dance. It was a bloody display but very educational.

are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

Again, I don’t buy the “need meat to live” theories, there are substitutes. Even the "so called" need for b12 can be found in dirt, sea plants and a can of RedBull (if you trust the FDA)…not to mentioned supplements. But I do not recommend drugs of any kind to people, I can’t even remember the last time I was sick.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

Do you really see my post as being judgmental? I don’t waste time posting nonsense, and I rarely engage in small talk because there is little time for that. Every post I make here is from the heart, my intentions are pure. Sorry to see how sensitive you are about this, just imagine how the animals feel…

I doubt I’ll respond to this thread again, there really isn’t anything else to add on the subject, My post are not personal, if you take them that way…maybe you need to re-read them and/or reflect on them a bit longer. Then re-read yours. The problem might be closer than you originally thought.

Live well...

Peace

Hi, I understand your position on this, but it would help if you would read my opening thread before jumping to conclusions. I was a vegetarian when I developed all of my health problems, and was nearly dead. I'm not going to relist all of my symptoms again here, and write the entire story over again.

I also explained how I healed myself with the raw primal diet. I didn't use doctors. I believe food is our medicine. However, if a person won't eat a healthy diet for them, they do end up in hospitals - exactly what I avoided. They end up in hospitals and doctors do what they can. They can't make someone eat raw meat and raw fat, they can only try to kill microbes, viruses and try to kill tumors and cancer cells. I don't agree at all with their approach but if a person is going to insist on a bad diet, it's the only other option.

Love and Light, Rayne

It’s called adaptation. When certain animals started eating meat (due to Human ways of destroying the land) they had to change, they became SAVAGE. Everything found in meat (raw or cooked) can be found elsewhere… Tell me what’s in meat that you can’t find in the land. I’m sure I can find it for you…

Peace

I will repeat what I just posted. Here is why you can't find it for me....

"I will quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz here...

"Our intestines are 2 1/2 times shorter than most hervibores. We have only one stomach, while herbivores have 2 - 4 stomachs. Herbivores have nearly 60,000 times more enzymes than we have to disassemble cellulose (plant fiber) to obtain the fat and proteins from vegetation and grain. Vegetable fiber passes through an herbivore's digestive system in about 48 hours. In our digestive tracts, vegetables complete their journey in 24 hours. Only a fraction of the cellulose is digested. Sixty-five percent of the protein and fat are undigested." Now, considering how little protein and fat are in vegetation - if we only are able to digest 35% of it, that does and WILL ALWAYS lead to malnutrition.

"Our gastrointestinal tract is not like that of birds. Birds can eat a lot of grain and seeds and digest them with their gizzards. We do not have a gizzard or an alternative way of eating grain that is health-giving. We cannot properly digest grain for cellular reproduction and healing, EVEN IF SPROUTED. Sprouted grains are vegetables. As stated above, we do not digest vegetables well. Germinated seeds contain enxyme suppressors that prevent proper protein digestion, utilization and assimilation, causing protein deficiency."

"When humans eat a lot of fruit, they incur health problems, such as osteoporosis, toothe degeneration, anxiety, dryness, diabetes, hyperactivity, attetion deficit disorder, hyperactivity, over emotionality and temperature sensitivity. Unlike pure frugivores and herbivores, we mainly have an acidic digestive tract, including acidic bacteria that facilitate the prevention and reversal of cancer. More than a little raw high carb fruit over alkalinizes the intestines. Intestinal over akalnity destroys proper protein and fat digestion and suppresses appetite for raw meat. This destroys our ability to combine many foods and impairs the natural acidic environment of our bowels. A sugar rich environment caused by high carb fruits results in fungal problems, such as candida and other yeast infections. Eating more than a little fruit causes severe fat and protein deficiencies. In women, that causes bloating and menstrual cramps." - something that I no longer experience

"Carnivores, such as cats and dogs, mainly eat meat. Our digestive juices are most similar to carnivores. In their stomachs, the hydrochloric acid concentration is 15 times greater than in humans so that they digest meat in 10 hours (raw), which accommodates their very short intestines. Humans, however, produce an equal amount of hydrochloric acid throughout the stomach and intestines combined, allowing raw meat and other raw animal products to digest easily and efficiently in our much longer digestive tract within 16 hours. Cooked meat takes up to 36 hours and is accompanied with putrefaction, heterocyclic amines, acrylamides and lipid peroxides not found in the digestive tract when raw meats are eaten. Our teeth are designed for cutting and crushing meat with the help of our dexterous hands."

Myself, and all of the other people who are partaking of this diet have found his conclusions to be true and effective for curing and preventing disease. There has been no one, who has followed this diet who has had a negative or non - healing reaction. It has been found to affect EVERYONE the same way. No other diet, medicine, or supplement can make this claim.

Love and Light, Rayne

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 18:22
I will keep it simple try to find out what spirit really is and what a belief system is , because if it does not come from the spirit its mind control its that simple.
Any spirit directly connect to it creator does not need to think it knows, so you will never find 2 of them disagreeing with one another.

If you not try to understand what the difference is between it then your never going to anyway

An example of mind control is----
People who belief that wild animals who kill others for food to survive is how nature has evolved.

Hint - genetic engineering exist a little bit longer than this civilization (Pigs are a hybrid being and its a cross between a wild boar and a human)

Ok, this is a new thread entirely- that I would love to read. Very intersting. Human and pig???? Carnivores aren't???? Please tell more.

Love and Light, Rayne

Go true all of the Project Camelot interview (more then ones) before the split and plus all what you can find on the internet and then include all of you past life experiences /out of the body and spiritual progress you follow true your own dreams and put that all to getter . I have being busy putting that all to getter from 2008 (wake up year ) till now + 10 years extra of researching all I can find on food/ herbs health etc.

If you have done that then you getting the bigger picture!


One example

Of what I've found out about Hiroshima/Nagasaki the nukes where pre-placed in the cities and bombs they have dropped where flash bombs for a person on the ground to flip the switch.

I remembered interview around 1986 with a survivor that remember seeing 2 flashes before she was buried under her own house (that stayed with me until I found a video that I cannot find any more because I forgot what it was called where a person explained this and it was like ooo ZHIT

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 18:34
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Peace of Mind
26th February 2011, 18:39
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

Logically, digesting negative energy can’t be good…
We can live without it, we can easily substitute it. We are intelligent creatures who can make that choice (unlike other Earthly inhabitants). We are being tested daily in every way. It will be our commitments to pro-life, our decisions on how we co-exist with all other sentient beings that will be very important. Would you like it if some creature ate your child and/or your parents, how will that make you feel? I strongly believe the planet has been rapped of most of its vegetation (on land and in sea). This was probably done on purpose or thru a catastrophic event…causing famine and a taste for blood/flesh for all Earthly creatures. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some think we are in the last days…our way of living is not living…its hypocrisy.

Peace

The positive health changes you experienced sounds like the same changes I experienced when I quit the vegetarian diet, and began to add raw meat and raw fat to my diet. My energy is awesome! You say that meat is not a necessity, however I would have died without it. I don't know if you read my opening post to this thread, but I explain that.

I disagree with you when you say that the other creatures on this planet aren't intelligent. They lack linear thought processes, but they are actually quite intelligent. They have "knowing" rather than collected information. This is something we need more of.

Actually I don't eat meat because of conditioning, but because of what I have experienced and learned. I was vegetarian before I changed over to the primal diet, so my conditioning was for vegetarianism.

I have a different but similar belief to yours....I believe that we are being steered toward vegetarianism because of it's detrimental health effects. Beans, grains, nuts, and seeds - the vegetarian sources of proteins are all difficult to digest and lead to debilitating disease. "They" don't care whether you are vegan or not as long as you are eating unhealthy food that will eventually destroy your mind and body. In fact, it seems obvious to me that when it comes to the abuse and pollution going on in factory farms, "they" are being quite opportunistic. Get the public clamoring to end the abuse and pollution so that they can take away an extremely healthy source of food - meat. Not saying that factory farmed meat is healthy. I am saying that they will use that to get all meat eating banned.

Hi there, Rayne T...

I see where you're coming from...and going.

I used to play football, so I was always a health nut. What I and a few others I know experienced was more of a mental spiritual lifting when we decided to end our flesh eating.

I remember being told that spirits from the highest realm come to talk to you but they are hesitant when you have a certain type of energy signature…meaning the negative energy in the consumption of death/flesh. This is real to me because I’ve been involved in and witnessed some very negative things before my transition. Now I’m experiencing some beautiful things in life, my body is going through some unexplainable changes (heightened senses and possibly unlocking dormant abilities). My mind has become so vivid that most of my thoughts seem to need a complex language to explain them.

When ever I smell cooked flesh it’s nauseating. Eating flesh will most certainly make me sick because my body is cleansed of it. All my body’s cells are re-new and not one of them needs a pinch of meat to operate to their full potential.

Mostly every report giving to the masses from the FDA or any controlled institution are filled with lies. All they want to do is make you sick so they can drug you. They tell you what your body needs instead of you listening to it yourself. None of this is Rocket science…people just need to trust themselves…I can’t say that enough.

My body tells me the truth not some person who has never met me or done any health test on me. I don’t need someone with selfish plans to inform me on how to take care of myself. My mind, body and soul are thankful for that. What I write here is my testimony; but, it might mean something to someone who is considering a change in their energy field.

I know animals are intelligent species; it’s unfortunate that most humans don’t have the capacity or patience to learn from them.

As I said in an earlier post I’m prepared to die before I put another piece of dead flesh inside God’s temple. Death is no stranger to me. Seen it and almost became it. I don’t fear it one bit because we will meet in due time…so I will live in complete LIFE until then. Fear is not a part of me; I actually despise (lack of a better word) cowards, because they hinder the WHOLE by being hesitant in doing their part. Maybe people have too much fear because that is part of the energy they consume from meat….how were the animals feeling before they were killed for food? I actually feel sorry for the ones that do fear death...they will have no problem taking another innocent life just to save their own, when it probably should be the other way around. The global conditioning has been efficient…as well as damaging.

We are only going to be living for a minute, so I’ve learned to not fear the inevitable. Life here is temporary, my existence out of this body matters more to me than what I do while occupying it,temporarily. In other words…this is part of my preparation for that unavoidable journey outside of the meat suit we’re currently carrying. So, I’m glad for my being as you should be for yours…

I’m not here to convince anyone, but to leave something to ponder for those that are interested. After all…the choice has always been yours…that’s what this school called Earth is all about…

Peace

Hi, thanks for your post. I don't eat cooked meat. Cooked is certainly dead. I eat meat raw, that 's what the raw primal diet is based on- that and raw fats, veggies, fruits, and unheated honey.

I can say that I have a pretty clear clean connection with my High Self and guides now, none of the fear and negativity that you are imagining. No disrespect intended, but you have some beliefs and emotional charges around these issues. You say you "despise" cowards, and you sound very judgemental - this is projection.


Love and Light, Rayne

Hi, Rayne T,

Meat is dead. It came from an animal that was once enjoying life with its family and friends...correct me if I’m wrong. Sorry if you take offence to the 2 words in one of my posts. But there really is no other (accurate) way to describe people willing to eat innocent but are reluctant to face their known enemy. We know why we are in the predicament we’re in, and we know it isn’t cows/pigs/chicken ruining the world. You call it judgmental, I call it excuses. Every creature materialized here on this planet for a reason, even the Great roach….which have been here for millennia and hasn’t destroyed a thing…but most humans despised them. If any of these creatures were meant for you to eat they would glady hope on your dinner plate.

Since we're here chewing the fat, answer this if you don't mind? Out of all the species on this planet…which one is not really doing their job? Is this same creature building a world for the whole or for self? Until that creature/monster realizes just what it is… the world will become a wasteland before a paradise. I’m against anything holding us back from paradise…even my fellow human. I rather not be, but I have to be real with my self if I expect to make true progress. This is the way I'm wired.

Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Chinaski,

If you don’t believe what I have to say that’s cool with me. And I’m definitely not going to tell you what to do. I’m just providing some insight to those that are interested. It’s not hard for me to see why you and others are dealing with certain health issues. If you think you need meat then you will…it’s really that simple. I don’t believe “I need to eat another animal or I’ll die.” If you want to, fine. I’m sure many don’t.
I’m speaking on behalf of the animals, and maybe some that are against flesh eating because of what it does (as I explained). I hope you do know at the time of these animals death they excrete toxins into the blood…which the flesh is soaked in, right?

Peace of Mind, you're prepared to die before you put meat in your body because your particular body does not require meat to be healthy. if it did, you'd be singing a different tune.
I highly doubt that. Besides, I’m not really impressed with the current state of the world to make such a selfish sacrifice anyway. So the idea of death would be more inviting than you know. I’m sure my ideas of death are very different than yours.
i'm not scared of death either, but i am scared of SUFFERING. having experienced quite a bit of it myself, and having worked in several hospitals, i believe i have the authority to speak on it. the thing is, most people don't just die immediate;y. they suffer mightily, for months and years, wasting away on hospital beds, battling bed sores, *****ing themselves, and losing their dignity in the process.

Are you even sure the doctors aren’t the ones making people sick? I wonder how many of them people know how to heal themselves, most not be many because they wouldn’t be in there in the first place. The healthcare industry is more of a biz than a lifeline. Learn to heal your body by meditation. The body is a magnificent machine. Meds don’t heal; they only assist you in tolerating the pain while the body does the rest (placebo). Pain is in the mind, its only there to tell you that there is something wrong, control the mind and you will control the pain.
There are (very graphic) vids on youtube showing a few Muslims tolerance to pain. They stick knives thru their arms, neck, mouths, and tongues. There is even one scene where one guy lodged a machete in the top of one of his brother’s head. All this was done while they sang and dance. It was a bloody display but very educational.

are you suggesting that a cancer patient whose body requried meat to heal should instead waste away for years under this misguided notion of vegetarian spiritual heroism? would he be a "coward" if he decided to save his life by consuming meat? would you "despise" him for doing so? careful, my friend, those are pretty strong words you're using there.

Again, I don’t buy the “need meat to live” theories, there are substitutes. Even the "so called" need for b12 can be found in dirt, sea plants and a can of RedBull (if you trust the FDA)…not to mentioned supplements. But I do not recommend drugs of any kind to people, I can’t even remember the last time I was sick.

you sound passionate about your vegetarian stance, and i admire that. just please, check the judgements at the mat.

Do you really see my post as being judgmental? I don’t waste time posting nonsense, and I rarely engage in small talk because there is little time for that. Every post I make here is from the heart, my intentions are pure. Sorry to see how sensitive you are about this, just imagine how the animals feel…

I doubt I’ll respond to this thread again, there really isn’t anything else to add on the subject, My post are not personal, if you take them that way…maybe you need to re-read them and/or reflect on them a bit longer. Then re-read yours. The problem might be closer than you originally thought.

Live well...

Peace

Hi, I understand your position on this, but it would help if you would read my opening thread before jumping to conclusions. I was a vegetarian when I developed all of my health problems, and was nearly dead. I'm not going to relist all of my symptoms again here, and write the entire story over again.

I also explained how I healed myself with the raw primal diet. I didn't use doctors. I believe food is our medicine. However, if a person won't eat a healthy diet for them, they do end up in hospitals - exactly what I avoided. They end up in hospitals and doctors do what they can. They can't make someone eat raw meat and raw fat, they can only try to kill microbes, viruses and try to kill tumors and cancer cells. I don't agree at all with their approach but if a person is going to insist on a bad diet, it's the only other option.

Love and Light, Rayne

It’s called adaptation. When certain animals started eating meat (due to Human ways of destroying the land) they had to change, they became SAVAGE. Everything found in meat (raw or cooked) can be found elsewhere… Tell me what’s in meat that you can’t find in the land. I’m sure I can find it for you…

Peace

I will repeat what I just posted. Here is why you can't find it for me....

"I will quote Aajonus Vonderplanitz here...

"Our intestines are 2 1/2 times shorter than most hervibores. We have only one stomach, while herbivores have 2 - 4 stomachs. Herbivores have nearly 60,000 times more enzymes than we have to disassemble cellulose (plant fiber) to obtain the fat and proteins from vegetation and grain. Vegetable fiber passes through an herbivore's digestive system in about 48 hours. In our digestive tracts, vegetables complete their journey in 24 hours. Only a fraction of the cellulose is digested. Sixty-five percent of the protein and fat are undigested." Now, considering how little protein and fat are in vegetation - if we only are able to digest 35% of it, that does and WILL ALWAYS lead to malnutrition.

"Our gastrointestinal tract is not like that of birds. Birds can eat a lot of grain and seeds and digest them with their gizzards. We do not have a gizzard or an alternative way of eating grain that is health-giving. We cannot properly digest grain for cellular reproduction and healing, EVEN IF SPROUTED. Sprouted grains are vegetables. As stated above, we do not digest vegetables well. Germinated seeds contain enxyme suppressors that prevent proper protein digestion, utilization and assimilation, causing protein deficiency."

"When humans eat a lot of fruit, they incur health problems, such as osteoporosis, toothe degeneration, anxiety, dryness, diabetes, hyperactivity, attetion deficit disorder, hyperactivity, over emotionality and temperature sensitivity. Unlike pure frugivores and herbivores, we mainly have an acidic digestive tract, including acidic bacteria that facilitate the prevention and reversal of cancer. More than a little raw high carb fruit over alkalinizes the intestines. Intestinal over akalnity destroys proper protein and fat digestion and suppresses appetite for raw meat. This destroys our ability to combine many foods and impairs the natural acidic environment of our bowels. A sugar rich environment caused by high carb fruits results in fungal problems, such as candida and other yeast infections. Eating more than a little fruit causes severe fat and protein deficiencies. In women, that causes bloating and menstrual cramps." - something that I no longer experience

"Carnivores, such as cats and dogs, mainly eat meat. Our digestive juices are most similar to carnivores. In their stomachs, the hydrochloric acid concentration is 15 times greater than in humans so that they digest meat in 10 hours (raw), which accommodates their very short intestines. Humans, however, produce an equal amount of hydrochloric acid throughout the stomach and intestines combined, allowing raw meat and other raw animal products to digest easily and efficiently in our much longer digestive tract within 16 hours. Cooked meat takes up to 36 hours and is accompanied with putrefaction, heterocyclic amines, acrylamides and lipid peroxides not found in the digestive tract when raw meats are eaten. Our teeth are designed for cutting and crushing meat with the help of our dexterous hands."

Myself, and all of the other people who are partaking of this diet have found his conclusions to be true and effective for curing and preventing disease. There has been no one, who has followed this diet who has had a negative or non - healing reaction. It has been found to affect EVERYONE the same way. No other diet, medicine, or supplement can make this claim.

Love and Light, Rayne

Our bodies adapt to their environments, I don’t trust these instituions or their lies. I’m living proof that they lie. Its understanderable if you don’t believe me.

Did you know that there are caterpillars evolving into meat eaters? Because of shortness in food in their environment, man is doing a fine job I tell ya… The body, every body from every specie adapts to its environment…we have to change our ways, our thinking and fix this place. Fix ourselves…before it’s too late. We are creating hell on Earth and many are none the wiser...

Peace

Mu2143
26th February 2011, 18:43
Put a heirloom seed for 9 mins under the tongue and it will load all your nutritional needs in to that seed (What would I have done with all the different heirlooms seeds if I had a big enough garden and better wether) Holland suck when trying to grow something

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 19:05
Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

Could you understand it?

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 19:11
Yes I know this as factual part of spiritual existence. Other people who live a spiritual existence know this.

Stand out in the woods one day and observe it for yourself, its out there for the 'bear eye' to see.

If we'd take ten minutes to get over veddy veddy terrible self importance as humans we'd KNOW everything we need to know about ourselves it already exists in the natural world.

So next time you are a bird feeder tell me how many crows you see obsessing over the morality of eating decayed meat. They were designed to eat decayed meat Or a finch obsessing and losing feathers about the moral value of the seeds they are eating. These are animals who KNOW their roles and don't question them or clutter them up with beliefs and moral values.





Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

Could you understand it?

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 19:20
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 19:25
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Colustrum (animal product) has a plant based alternative. Why aren't YOU using it?

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 19:31
Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

Could you understand it?

The thing is there are sentient beings living here on earth. Who is to say that the whales in the ocean are not singing about the meaning of life or the trials and tribulations of the ocean. Just because they do not have an opposable thumb and not pushed into an evolutionary line does not mean that they are not spiritual beings. They are creatures here that have been evolving far longer than homo sapians, do you not think their brain evolves also. We have been pushed to were we are because of an opposable thumb, that simple fact has made us what we are.

One reason I can see as not being excepted into the galactic community is because we cannot communicate with the numerous species here already, if we cannot communicate and show empathy with them how are we supposed to communicate and show empathy with other species in space. That is the litmus test we are failing.

What are whales singing about?

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 19:46
Which is exactly what the stewardship of the earth is about. We can't begin to grasp the immensity of that when we are pettily squabbling about who is morally superior in their Food choices.

Food.

Of all things. Food.

Just food.

Ask a whale what its singing about. It's the Whales song. Not ours.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 20:41
Which is exactly what the stewardship of the earth is about. We can't begin to grasp the immensity of that when we are pettily squabbling about who is morally superior in their Food choices.

Being Vegan, for me is also a very effective way of removing my self from all the mind numbing adverts, endless lines of sweets and chocolates. I have not drunk Coca-Cola for years because they are a morally corrupt company and fall into my scope of belief, its an effective way of removing your self from the system by non participation.

Its not just about food being vegan. I am not digging at what you wrote, I just felt I should elaborate on that fact you brought up.

Life, I think is quite a selfish endeavor in some aspects as its about feeling content and happy within ones self.


Which is exactly what the stewardship of the earth is about

This is the key... Were can you draw the line so to speak as hunting has brought about the extinction of many different species and it needs to stop... Its a very selfish sport that takes away from every one. It just not fare to do that.

We should be living in balance with the world and we are clearly not doing that, for me the best way I can find is complete non participation of anything destructive, short of killing myself. This is the only way I can feel happy within myself.

9eagle9
26th February 2011, 20:47
I assure you , that you are not digging at what I wrote or upsetting me as you repeatedly keep implicating since you do not have the power to do so.

So no hunting. Good idea. As soon as all us humans are greatly reduced in population there will be plenty of room for animals to expand and we need not worry about the destruction of unchecked animal population. Animals keep themselves in check by keeping the predator-prey equilibrium in balance. In fact animals will be much better off without us here regardless of what we are eating.

I for one don't want to be here when the meek inherit the earth.

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 20:47
..............

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 21:06
Animals know their roles in physical life and spiritual life.... people do not.

In your opinion you do not know this as fact, do you? Could you elebarate on this?

Could you understand it?



The thing is there are sentient beings living here on earth. Who is to say that the whales in the ocean are not singing about the meaning of life or the trials and tribulations of the ocean. Just because they do not have an opposable thumb and not pushed into an evolutionary line does not mean that they are not spiritual beings. They are creatures here that have been evolving far longer than homo sapians, do you not think their brain evolves also. We have been pushed to were we are because of an opposable thumb, that simple fact has made us what we are.

One reason I can see as not being excepted into the galactic community is because we cannot communicate with the numerous species here already, if we cannot communicate and show empathy with them how are we supposed to communicate and show empathy with other species in space. That is the litmus test we are failing.

What are whales singing about?

But what has this to do with the subject matter? Of course all creatures are spiritual beings. They are in connection with and communicate with each other all the time. They also eat each other. What they eat doesn't interfere with their spirituality. It only interferes with yours because you have negative beliefs about it.

Rayne T.
26th February 2011, 21:10
What is wrong with hunting? I see some are balling up hunting with irresponsibility and illegal activities. Hunting should be done responsibly and for food only. It shouldn't be done to the point of extinction for a species. Hunting is a superior method of acquiring superior meat, when compared to factory farms and their abused, tortured and poisoned sick animals.

Love and Light, Rayne

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 21:18
I assure you , that you are not digging at what I wrote or upsetting me as you repeatedly keep implicating since you do not have the power to do so.

It was an attempt at being nice.

Mike
26th February 2011, 21:24
Am I anxiously awaiting the debate on what morally proper type of air we should be breathing.

i'm anxiously awaiting the fruititarians and insect eaters (tapping my fingers, chin in palm-drooling). and the inevitable debate between the fruit and vegetable people, attempting to quantify the sentience of an apple vis a vis broccholi.

and where's the guy whose feels the agony of the banana as he's mashing it with his jaws? i know you're out there buddy! come on, join the fight!

i'm a little disippointed in the vegetarians for not asking this one: what if humans weren't atop the food chain? what if some alien race came to earth and began hunting and eating humans etc etc. how would you feel etc etc. this is your best argument guys! come on, pull yourselves together!

and surely there is at least one person out there who will make the asinine suggestion that we live off love and light, that we don't really need food, mind over matter etc...join the debate, you'll fit right in!

btw, i just sprinkled salt on my popcorn. objections, anyone? is salt alive? is popcorn???

chelmostef
26th February 2011, 21:44
i know you're out there buddy! come on, join the fight!

i'm a little disippointed in the vegetarians for not asking this one: what if humans weren't atop the food chain? what if some alien race came to earth and began hunting and eating humans etc etc. how would you feel etc etc. this is your best argument guys! come on, pull yourselves together!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/announcement.php?f=62

Respectfully, C - 4

Sowelu
26th February 2011, 21:45
Cats and dogs could eat raw meat as their stomachs contain harsh acids that ours don't.
I agree with all you said there Sowelu and I LOVE your avatar!

But I must disagree with the statement above.

Humans have Hydrochloric acid (HCL) in their stomachs. You can't get a more potent while still biologically-compatible acid. It's a VERY VERY strong acid.

pardon my misquote :P, but what i meant to say was that their systems are designed to be more resilient than ours. Their saliva contains antibacterial agents such as lysozyme and their shorter digestive tracts make it harder for bacteria to colonize... they have digestive ENZYMES that we don't not acids

Hi Sowelu,

I would highly recommend that you read "We Want To Live". Just because a straight carnivore is MORE geared toward eating meat, doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to eat any. We are quite able to digest quite a bit. My digestive system was nearly destroyed when I began the raw primal diet - consisting of raw meat - and ironically I was able to digest raw meat better than anything else, and this is what lead to my recovery.

As for bacteria....YOU WANT MORE, not less in your body. Bacteria consume dead and diseased tissues, not healthy ones. Bacteria cleanse out toxins. Our bodies use bacteria for cleansing and healing. Please everyone read the book I keep ranting about :nod:

Love and Light, Rayne



Beneficial bacteria yes... imbalances can cause a variety of disorders. If u saw my original post I was merely saying cats and dogs can safely eat raw, and suggesting
If a human wants to, make sure its organic to be on the safe side. Personally, I say eat whatever makes u feel good.
Weather that's raw meat or crunchy beans, go crazy!

If ur feeling tired or ill, try something else. Just make
Sure u get some sun :)

Dennis Leahy
26th February 2011, 21:45
...The raw primal diet is far more sustainable than the vegetarian diet. Here are some of the benefits...

#Encourages eating locally and in season - eat mostly plants during growing season, and eat mostly meats in winter. Flow with nature.
# Easy to digest and supplies all of our nutritional needs
# Requires no processing and minimal packaging
# Supports local, organic, and free range farms
# Doesn't require excessive amounts of labor to supply food
# Doesn't require the use of supplements and expensive exotic superfoods
# Doesn't involve GMO's, harmful chemicals, and dangerous industrial chemicals
#Doesn't require that we waste land that could be grazing and free space for wild animals, for farming beans and grains that are harmful to us anyway.

A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. Not one person yet has been able to tell me what we can eat as a vegan, that doesn't require that we eat expensive exotic superfoods, cooked foods, grains, rice, beans, nuts and seeds. This list is indigestible, unhealthy, and/or ridiculously expensive.

Rather than argue anymore about the moral issues of whether to kill or not, first I would like to hear someone give me a list of foods that is vegan and will provide all of our dietary needs.

Honestly Dennis, the way I see it...you think you are higher than God, or higher than Nature. This has been man's problem from the beginning. You can't do it better than nature, and the key to "going back to the garden" is to learn to flow with, and harmonize with nature.

There is no such thing as a bacterial, or viral attack on our bodies, period. Please read the damn book, lol. Our bodies use bacteria and virus to cleanse toxins - toxins that our modern "civilized" trying to be better than God lives have created. It is the toxins that are attacking us.

Dennis, I know how to live for more than 300 years with "superhuman" health and powers. Ha ha, and I don't need to drink the blood of any human virgin children.

Love and Light, Rayne

"The raw primal diet is far more sustainable than the vegetarian diet."
The list of benefits you show could only (possibly) be true for a minute percentage of the population at best.

The Earth is (mostly) not grazing land. The Earth is a diverse set of ecological niches. If you multiply 7 billion people times the number of animals that would be required to feed them a Raw Primal diet, times the number of fractional acres of land each animal needs to graze/range/roam, you'll see that what you are proposing is impossible on a planetary scale - especially if natural habitats are protected and restored for other endemic creatures and plants to thrive. When animals are given an area to graze, they dominate the ecosystem, to the detriment of all or most other species that would have (naturally) used that space. Humans are already habitat hogs and resource hogs; you're proposal aims us further down that road. Honestly, what you're proposing, on a planetary scale, also sounds like a garish nightmare to me.



"A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. Not one person yet has been able to tell me what we can eat as a vegan, that doesn't require that we eat expensive exotic superfoods, cooked foods, grains, rice, beans, nuts and seeds. This list is indigestible, unhealthy, and/or ridiculously expensive. "
For those not convinced that cooking is bad, here's a link: Grain-free Living dot com Recipe Pages (http://www.grainfreeliving.com/recipes) to a few recipes. Add in most vegetables and fruits (subtract the known bad guys like soy), add in some nuts. Prepare shaken, not stirred.

If you believe that all food must be eaten uncooked, the dinner bowl contents get more restrictive and less interesting in terms of variety, but again, most vegetables (minus the ones like potatoes and legumes that need to be cooked to change some biochemical component that is harmful/poisonous), most fruits, nuts. Vegan Raw dot com (http://www.veganrawdiet.com/)

If everyone on the planet was given as much of the above as they require, ate moderately, exercised, drank pure water, and got some sunshine, breathed some clean air, laughed and dance and sang, we would have a planet full of vibrant, healthy people.

It is easy to find fault in any diet, and you may say, "they included chickpeas which I believe are unhealthy", or nuts, or whatever.

I fully expect that you're going to reject the above diet general components as providing complete health. You've already stated what you believe is the ideal, and since I excluded meat, you believe I'm wrong. You have stated that when you tried the above vegetarian/vegan solutions, you were still actively dying. I don't believe you, but I do believe that you believe you. So, I believe I'm in an "argument" I cannot win. I think I jumped into the conversation because you made sweeping statements that vegetarians and vegans are wrong, unhealthy, and falling apart and that you had found the only solution to health.


"Honestly Dennis, the way I see it...you think you are higher than God, or higher than Nature."
Well, I know you're trying to steer the conversation away from spiritual and or moral grounds for vegetarianism/veganism, but this comment is interesting to me on a spiritual level. "I" am a subset of God, a teeny-tiny blob of God, just like (I believe) we all are. "Higher than God" is like saying "bigger than the Universe."

If it is true that one man, Vonderplanitz, who wrote a book is the first person to ever properly interpret human diet as evolved by Nature and/or as designed by God, then wow, that's pretty amazing. If you want to follow that guy's book, I say go for it, bless your food, and let it sustain you. But that's a far cry from believing that the entire planet could live like that, or especially must live like that to be healthy.

But, I also stated:

If Vonderplanitz is correct, and it is universally true for all humans, then I'd say in my spiritual path that I have made a decision to incarnate into a body that might thrive by eating some raw flesh of other animals, or that can survive in relative health without eating any flesh of other animals, that I choose to survive in relative health while here on Earth.
So, it doesn't matter to me if Vonderplanitz is "correct", I still see it as selfish, unsustainable, and violent. Me. I see it that way. That's my perspective. (I know it's not yours.)


There is no such thing as a bacterial, or viral attack on our bodies, period.
We live in symbiosis with many, many bacteria (and probably virus too, though I don't really know that.) We have gut bacteria without which we would immediately die, and skin bacteria without which we would be subject to massive attack and would die quickly. So, I am in agreement that bacteria on the whole is not a pathogenic enemy. But of the (probably) billions of kinds of bacteria on Earth, many are harmful and/or deadly to humans. Take utmost care in your eating of raw meat, so you'll not have to find out the hard way that this is true.

Dennis

Mike
26th February 2011, 21:54
no disrespect intended chelmostaf. just a bit of fun while we wait for the 18 messiahs;) its become impossible to leave a serious remark on this thread at this point.

best,
Mike

nearing
26th February 2011, 22:53
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now. :love:

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

9eagle9
27th February 2011, 01:16
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

Carmody
27th February 2011, 01:50
I'm attempting to make a very powerful point here.

Please stay with it. thank you.

Read on:




Now, about the subject of animal abuse in the food industry. This is the real problem as well as all of the pollution created by factory farms. This must stop.

Professional hunting needs to replace this abusive destructive situation. Hunting should once again become the respected occupation it once was. And I don't mean by ridiculously terrifying things like chasing down animals with helicopters.

Besides for the animal abuse, and pollution, the fact remains "we are what we eat". When we eat abused, enslaved, tortured animals who never see the light of day or get to play and run, then we take on that energy. The Native Americans knew this. The elite know this. Why do you think they spend huge sums of money to go somewhere and eat Tiger, or some other powerful wild animals?

We are part of this Earth. We are part of the food chain. Killing to eat is not wrong, it's being what we are. It is allowing ourselves to be, and live. People think that they have to be vegetarians to be spiritual. NONSENSE! Eating COOKED meats and fats WILL dull your mind and make you unhealthy, while eating them raw is just amazingly healthy. Please do not believe all of what you hear about food poisoning, or e-coli, or salmonella either. Aajonus explains the truth about that too. I have been on this diet for 1 1/2 years now, and have never gotten food poisoning. That is a scam created by Big Food corps.

Believe me, "they" want you to go vegan and not experience the renewal, and health that people like me are experiencing. Yes, raw veganism has healed some of "incurable" diseases because, yes of course, it is a clean diet compared to what the person was eating previously. But, I guarantee they will run into future problems with it. The Primal diet is curing EVERY "incurable" disease with nothing but improvement from then on!"

Love and Light,
Rayne

When I eat the flesh of animals that have been killed in factory farms, I live their deaths.

All the emotional helplessness, the pain, the fear, the rage, the sense of loss, the horror, all of it. Each separate meat eating experience is different. Each is a reflection of the horror of the death of the given animal in question. The loss of everything they know and understand....steps inside of me. I have to go through absorbing their vibrations and it takes a few hours.

I'm not happy about it and I experience it every time I forget and eat something like a fast food hamburger.

The question is..I know what it is doing to them...... what is it doing to me?

I can go as far as fish and chicken, for the most part. My body wants that nice ribeye 12oz steak, medium rare....mmmmmmm.... When I eat it I go through about 2-3 hours of absolute horror.

when I am at my (so far) most tuned, I even see, visualize within the death, not just the emotions.

Think about that...... the next time you sit down in front of a steak.

So..when someone asks me, 'how was your steak?', My answer could be....'mmmnn, not so bad. Pretty OK.'

Most people just eat the steak, and don't understand the trade off. I'm living within the trade-off.

Every second of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Credo Mutwa

Now, there is another thing, sir: It is that one of the things that the Chitauli like to do in their underground caves, where many fires are always kept ablaze, we are told, is that when a Chitauli gets sick and starts to lose a large area of skin on his body, it is said that there is a disease that the Chitauli suffer from which causes them to lose large areas of their skin, leaving only raw flesh.

When the Chitauli gets sick this way, a young girl, a virgin, is usually kidnapped by the servant of the Chitauli and is brought to the underground place. There the girl is bound, hand and foot, and wrapped in a golden blanket, and is forced to lie next to the Chitauli, the sick Chitauli, week after week, being well fed and well cared for, but kept bound hand and foot, and only released at certain times to relieve herself. It is said that after the sick Chitauli shows signs of getting better, then the human girl is manipulated into trying to escape. She is given a chance to escape, a chance which is really not a chance. Then, when the girl escapes, she runs, but she is pursued over a long distance underground by flying creatures which are made of metal, and she is recaptured when she reaches the height of fear and exhaustion.

Then she is laid on an altar, usually a rough rock, flat on top. Then, she is cruelly sacrificed, sir, and her blood is drunk by the sick Chitauli, which then recovers. But, the girl must not be sacrificed until she is very, very, very frightened, because if she is not frightened, it is said that her blood will not save the sick Chitauli. It must be the blood of a very frightened human being, indeed.

Now, this habit of chasing a victim was also practiced by ordinary African cannibals, sir. In Zulu-land, in the last century, there were cannibals who used to eat people, and their descendants, even today, will tell you, if they trust you, that the flesh of the human being who has been frightened and made to run over a great distance, while trying to escape, tastes far better than the flesh of someone who was simply killed.

Credo Mutwa interviewed 9/30/99 by Rick Martin
http://www.whale.to/b/mutwa.html

alchemy is about the reduction of specific elements to their basic components, ie, as close to single atoms as is possible. Herbals, dilution. what happens in the DNA, in the chemical stew of the meats we consume?

From the dreambus thread.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10942-Who-s-Driving-The-Dreambus-The-Documentary

SEE THE DREAMBUS documentary. Then you will understand what I say here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The inner world of the ego reflection on/in the given relevant astral plane..... is surprisingly similar to the film Inception.

Consensus reality in small groups, around their given activities and involvements.

Watching the interactions and the motions, changes. Walking among them is very interesting too.

Some will see you, some will not, some will respond, some will simply interact.

Some will even be aware. The odd one says, 'I see you'. And I smile back. It is a fun game.

....and Don Quixote goes galloping off in all directions. :)


For this 'one'...this is/was the gift of seeing the ego of the consensus reality ...forming itself as a rolling wave both in and out of time, in anticipation of a 'reality' to come, and history to be, to recall. to watch the separateness of the dance of the human form of/in the oneness of all.

1:12 in the video. :)

~~~~~~~~~~~

To clarify. What I was seeing was the ego function, playing in anticipation of reality, ahead of time. Before it happens in this 3d world. Remember there is cross feed of the different dimensions. this is indirectly stated in the video at 1:12.

We always anticipate, this is a major component of our duality function in consensus reality while in this time based state of 3D space.

Exist as one. Look to the future. Immutable history. Oneness, and all, at the same time. Blocked from knowing this as the source/door is blocked, by the ego. The ego is the body's inner voice function.It is not you. The thing that arose when we were children ---and closed the doorway over. It blocked the source from conscious Avatar presence. See the Dreambus documentary. Dreaming the dream.

We don't have to throw the ego away, as after all... it is the body (Avatar) function. But we do have to gently get it to understand that it is not us, and we are not it.

Now, understand the why of the farming of animals---is it to drive you into fear?... and thus you anticipate fear filled worlds and thus steer that reality into existence?

It isn't the fear of the animal, specifically? It's how it affects your underlying complex duality self?

Seriously.

Look ahead, anticipation.

'oneness' the still of the self in this life, if it can be achieved. (see the documentary)

History, immutable, if it is not erased or altered, that is.

Duality ....and center.

two cranial hemispheres. One creative, the other linear and solid. Imagination..and immutable history. The center. the pineal. The third eye of dimensional oneness.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14976-Do-we-need-to-suffer-to-evolve

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14977-Origin-of-all-coming-evil&highlight=jung

It takes a couple of months to build my Kundalini up. Healthy food, healthy life, healthy attitude.

Practice, practice, practice.

Like the virgin girl in constant fear, keep at it.

Except, not fear.

Clarity. Truth. Oneness.

No free rides, you have to work for it? No push-button salvation? Problem is, there are not many manuals about, are there?

Hopefully the above will be of some help.

For the scientifically minded:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?397-Pyramid-Building-Solved/page4

Within Maxwell's original equations is the asymmetrical (single direction) aspects of vortex function. The basis of his math on electrodynamics. The "law" of thermodynamics is a farce. Maxwell states it is also...elastic. oops.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?14591-Original-20-Maxwell-Equations

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 05:05
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now. :love:

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

Mu2143
27th February 2011, 06:48
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Colustrum (animal product) has a plant based alternative. Why aren't YOU using it?

You still did not understand me did you, I do not consume meat which I already explained. BTW there people on this planet using plant based diet and there healthy. They did not live in a mind controlled system we do.

Mu2143
27th February 2011, 07:16
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

chelmostef
27th February 2011, 10:19
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.


What you describe is how it is when we live in balance. We Do not live in balance at this point at time on earth.

When a wild animal is wondering many thousands of miles of free space its his soles decision to bring himself to you to sacrifice himself though death to nourish you and share knowledge.

When an animal is penned in or is not able to freely roam about on earth then it has not free will, he cannot choose his destiny to be one thing or another. When an animal is brought to the brink of extinction he is not bringing himself to us to nourish one person. That is not balance, we do not live in balance. That is why I am like I am, I am a product of the system, do not judge me.

You make powerful points and I wish more people were like you to understand things more deeply, I wholeheartedly respect you for being this way. I wish we could all live in balance in this manner.

chelmostef
27th February 2011, 10:27
I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

These words are not kind or showing empathy at all, but words of grandeur and of a divine higher status.

9eagle9
27th February 2011, 13:08
Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

Instead I laugh because if I didn't I'd cry at how out of touch people even as their mouths talk about how pure they are.

The whole point is someone cured themselves eating raw meat. That's a miracle. Provided by the natural world.

And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.




I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

These words are not of kind or showing empathy at all, but words of grandeur and of a divine higher status.

9eagle9
27th February 2011, 13:32
I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

chelmostef
27th February 2011, 13:51
Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

I sincerely hope it does.


And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.

By me sharing my life and things that are very personal and close to my heart a story which of abstinence, I am taking sacred things and defiling others. It makes me sad you feel this way.


Round and round in cirles we go!

Have a good day I wish you well.

Alan
27th February 2011, 13:52
Years ago, I read 'Eat Right for Your Type.' It explained to me why I cannot eat meat and why hubby loves meat and could never be a vegetarian.

I've read this book and I found it very interesting, and even started to follow it.

Then I discovered that the author has written a newer book, "The Genotype Diet". Like the blood type diet, it attempts to divide people into categories, and describes which foods are best for each category.

But the results of both books are contradictory, which to me invalidates both. The blood type diet would say I needed to avoid certain foods, and the genotype diet book then said they're OK for me. I feel like my only choice is to ignore both books!

SOOO much contradictory info out there on diets!

Alan
27th February 2011, 14:00
I like meat in my diet, but I find it more and more difficult to eat it. It's not because I think that I will become more spiritual if I remove meat from my food, but I am starting to have big problems with something being killed so that I can eat it...

But if you eat plants you're still killing the plants, right? Do plants have souls? Do they experience "pain"? I have no idea....

And most veggies are sprayed with pesticides, which kills lots of bugs, snakes, rodents, etc. Grains are usually harvested by large machines which also will bugs/rodents/snakes/etc.

Food for thought...

9eagle9
27th February 2011, 14:00
You wouldn't be sad if you .... stopped taking every word that comes from my mouth PERSONALLY because this isn't about YOU or any one individual. It's about US. You are just re emphasizing the point I made. Everytime someone speaks someone has to make it about them. It is and has always been about US collectively. And we can't remove whats on our plates before meddling in others, there is no hope for us to be healthy collectively living species.

If I have the power to make YOU sad then I have been bestowed with a great deal of power indeed...only because you gave it to me.

I am not your abuser and I am not the source of your sadness. Stop blaming your feelings on other people.

If people would stop imposing their crap on other people the world would be a much better place altogether.

Alan
27th February 2011, 14:13
But if you look at the studies of Drs Eades, authors of "Protien Power" you will see that even cooked meat in the right balance with veggies, without carbs leads to a greatly improved health for many.


I have "The Protein Power Life Plan" book. I think the title is somewhat lame but it's a terrific diet/lifestyle book.

Even tho there's so many contradictory books on diet, it's interesting what they have in common -- avoid sugar and processed foods. A good percentage of these books also say to avoid grains.

Alan
27th February 2011, 14:22
Well, speaking from my experience and a few others close to me… I/we have never been better physically as well as mentally once we stopped consuming death. I sleep a lot less (about 4 to 5 hours daily) and have plenty of energy to do all the average everyday deeds. It’s been over a decade since I’ve killed anything or eating something that clearly shows me it doesn’t want to be eating. IMO, when you live off of the Land/Earth, you are taking what mother Earth has provided for you. Meat is the flesh of animals (like you). It is not a necessity; it’s a con to keep your frequency low. Eating death/animal flesh becomes you…and your environment…due to the mentality cultivated by negative consumption. You might not see this as being wrong simply because of conditioning; you’re use to the craving and taste. You are what you eat…

But unless you are a fruitarian you ARE killing. Plants have a right to live and reproduce, don't they? They have self defense mechanisms -- some are poisonous, some have thorns, most have some kind of antinutrients in them. The only things in nature "designed" to be consumed are milk, fruit and honey, that's it.

You might be right about vegetarianism, I honestly don't know. And I'm glad what you are doing is working for you. But it might be working for you just because you believe in it so strongly.

Alan
27th February 2011, 14:40
I mean you no disrespect, but I have to speak up here. NOOOOO!!! Science cannot make up for our nutritional deficiencies. This type of thinking is exactly what got us in the nutritional mess we are in now. All of the GMO's and harmful chemicals added to our food, and feeding us a diet that is completely unnatural.

I agree! "Science" is what has given us all of the things which are making us sick -- high fructose corn syrup, MSG, artificial sweeteners, processed food, GMO foods, etc, etc.

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 15:03
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

Limor Wolf
27th February 2011, 15:07
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

9eagle9,i thought wehther to react to any of your posts on this subject.i dont say it often,but i find a lot of unsensitivness in them and an inability to put yourself in other creatures shues.you are more than welcom to get back at me if you wish.i have nothing against you or other people with similar thinking but i will prefer Carmody's reaction as someone who consumes meat and yet stop and thinks about the meaning of it all, to the very convenient theory that animals were given to us as tools for our own use (how noble of them) i do not agree.please be kind enough to explain it to them while watching this: http://vimeo.com/11518271.

i can only hope that you take your wonderfull signature seriously:"i dont believe everything i think". but even if not, let me give you a hint,whatever senses wrong and feels wrong and is done in hidden places and not in the open (slaughter houses) while creatures are mooooing and crying in agony is wrong! of course if anyone quietly and calmly watchs this and reflects how they were volunteering for this...well,against this i have no answer.i will give-up.
the gap is too big between our perceptions and feelings.

lets agree not agree.unfortunetly not you nor me will pay the price of this Difference in perceptions.

be blessed dear sister

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 15:13
I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.


What you describe is how it is when we live in balance. We Do not live in balance at this point at time on earth.

When a wild animal is wondering many thousands of miles of free space its his soles decision to bring himself to you to sacrifice himself though death to nourish you and share knowledge.

When an animal is penned in or is not able to freely roam about on earth then it has not free will, he cannot choose his destiny to be one thing or another. When an animal is brought to the brink of extinction he is not bringing himself to us to nourish one person. That is not balance, we do not live in balance. That is why I am like I am, I am a product of the system, do not judge me.

You make powerful points and I wish more people were like you to understand things more deeply, I wholeheartedly respect you for being this way. I wish we could all live in balance in this manner.

We must return to this balance. There is no other way. To go forward, we must go back. Some may die, some may starve. There are too many people on this planet if a healthy natural diet is not "sustainable". Humans are not meant to depend on a "they" to supply their food. Survival of the fittest is a good thing. Humanity is trying to destroy survival of the fittest, and reduce everything to weak, sickly shadows of what they should be. Everyone should be doing something to produce at least some of their own healthy organic food.

Mu2143
27th February 2011, 15:20
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 15:21
I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 15:25
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

Alan
27th February 2011, 15:31
FYI here are some extracts from Aajonus' book:

http://www.wewant2live.com/site/811618/page/45031

Mu2143
27th February 2011, 15:41
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

Your problem not mine, your responsible for your self.
If you don't like the truth don't read it and stop responding to it!!!

You don't realize it yet ,but this civilization is build on a BIG lie keep on dreaming!

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 17:28
A vegetarian diet that provides all of our nutritional needs simply doesn't exist. error that's not true (that's what I call mind control)

Then WHAT is it? Tell me about that diet. This is what I have been asking. I don't want to talk anymore about whether it's right or wrong to eat meat. Before we can even discuss that subject, we have to have a realistic alternative to eating meat. I am fulling willing to never touch another animal if you can tell me what to eat.

You all are wonderful at defending vegetarianism, yet you won't say much about the actual diet. Please, for the last time, can anyone tell me what we can eat that does not include the items we have already discussed that have been determined to be harmful. Tell me about a vegetarian diet that does not include...

cooked food
grains
beans
excessive amounts of nuts and seeds
excessive amounts of fruit
expensive exotic superfoods

I am anxiously awaiting your replies.

Love and Light, Rayne

If you need to consume meat then go a head I did not have a problem with that ,because I already explain this. You going to have to find out by your self how you going to get off it if you want to. I already gave info on this and that's B12

I can no longer eat meat ,because of a spiritual cleaning I had in April 2010 I got a reaction from meat and stopped eating it (tried twice to consume it) and for the first time I could with out it because I was addicted to it.
I avoid grains I don't consume beans and I known that people who stop eating meat have B12 problems and in my case that was it. I some times eat cheese. (Just do a search for b12)

And I have COD liver oil in my diet(Fish oil) ,also I was told to start using this back in Feb 2010 (in my dreams which is simple you out of your body in another reality)

Taking supplements and pills is not the answer, as I already pointed out. Your reaction to meat was a reaction to cooked meat. I wasn't able to eat cooked meats either, but raw is incredibly nourishing to my body. Common sense tells us that nature provided a healthy diet for humans. We just have to find it. Taking pills is ridiculous.

Love and Light, Rayne

It simple we where never meat eaters , that's a belief system. Where heavily genetically altered. If people where not mind controlled in this world we would not have any supermarkets and real food with be available everywhere for nothing. It does not matter in what form it comes, it is how you got it in the first place. (Simple rule did you got it ,by destroying or co-creating!)

You know what is ridiculous believing you need to kill for food that is.

Then why don't you get out there and tell all those wild carnivores that they are being ridiculous by feeding themselves. Better yet, why not just kill them all, then there will be no more killing. If you had been listening to me you would know I am not for supermarkets. Real food is available naturally everywhere, and it includes meat.

Your problem not mine, your responsible for your self.
If you don't like the truth don't read it and stop responding to it!!!

You don't realize it yet ,but this civilization is build on a BIG lie keep on dreaming!

The truth??? What truth? You are not even making sense. I think you are balling up the nightmare of humanity as being one and the same as real life on earth where animals eat other animals. You are trying to say it's all part of the matrix, aren't you? That creation is a mistake, and we have to go back to the light, is that what you are saying? This is why I didn't like church and all those religions who condemn the flesh and being alive. Personally I enjoy living in a physical body.

Rayne T.
27th February 2011, 17:31
All this makes me want to go running through the forest, leap out of a tree onto some unsuspecting juicy herbivore, and rip into it. Yeahhhhhhhhhh! Hell with sitting on a futon and eating soy and rice, feeling holier than thou, and getting fat, gray, and disease ridden. Bleckk!!!

Dennis Leahy
27th February 2011, 18:37
I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.
A pound of ranch (not wild) produced meat really does cost (in resources consumed) immensely more than a pound of carrots.

If John Robbins was correct in his calculation, if the US government did not subsidize the cattle ranching industry (I think mostly due to massive amounts of nearly free water for ranchers), hamburger would be $80US/pound. And, that figure (if my memory is serving me), was from about 20 years ago.

So, (if that is correct), to reduce meat consumption, there is no need to outlaw meat, just let the price rise to reflect reality, and voila, lots more vegetarians - or at least meat would become an occasional "treat" for omnivores, rather than a daily, or even thrice daily, prime component of an entree. This would be an elitist crime if there was a need in human nutrition for meat, but my understanding is that there is no need in human nutrition for the flesh of animals or the milk from any animal other than mother's breast milk for infants.

Does the raw primal diet insist on frequent/daily meat intake? Or, is this something that raw primal adherents could occasionally eat (the way vegans often periodically outsource B12)? If it could be infrequent and small amounts of flesh, then it moves closer to a sustainable practice.

Actually, I suspect that even if every nutritionist on the planet sang in chorus about a need to eat raw flesh, there would still be very few that would do it. I just can't believe this is something that is going to catch-on, so the point about the misuse or over-consumption of resources for raw meat production is moot. But, it's not moot for meat production in general.

I'm not arguing against meat eaters eating meat. Bless it, let it nurture you. But if the assertion that meat is not required for human nutrition is correct, then it is a luxury item, and meat eaters should not expect society to subsidize the production costs to make it more affordable.

We do need to decriminalize hemp, because it is a 'miracle' plant providing oil, food, fiber for cloth and paper, medicine.

If (shoving aside the profit/greed-driven food corporations and agribiz corporate agenda) we find specific plants are really unhealthy for human consumption (such as soy), then lets be smart enough to demand only nutritious and digestible crops.

7 billion people is a lot of mouths to feed. I would hope that based on compassion for all of humanity, we realistically and honestly take a look at what needs to be done, to produce food to feed all 7 billion. "May All Be Fed (http://www.johnrobbins.info/other-books-by-john/)" - another of John Robbins books worth reading.

Dennis

Mu2143
27th February 2011, 19:01
The truth??? What truth? You are not even making sense. I think you are balling up the nightmare of humanity as being one and the same as real life on earth where animals eat other animals. You are trying to say it's all part of the matrix, aren't you? That creation is a mistake, and we have to go back to the light, is that what you are saying? This is why I didn't like church and all those religions who condemn the flesh and being alive. Personally I enjoy living in a physical body.

I never said creation was a mistake , what I can tell is that this play or experience is a one time only and it will never happen again. (We had a view more civilizations before this one where we did destroyed our self when we had more technology, information etc. people did not listen in Atlantis when it destroyed it self for 3th and last time )

because of free will no body can makes us stop this play unless where confronted with it in some form to stop it (evolve here or die! here that's our choice). Trying to solve that puzzle is the biggest of all and the highest level is here on earth.
You always look in to the past from where you want go forward, So the steps you have experienced to get this far is the best choice you have made and is not to be judged on. But it is how do you move forward from now on. There tons and tons of information the get the full picture ,but everybody has to read from there own book of life to fill in the pieces.

If people don't want to try harder then what to do you want co-create anyway and I am sure your not here to repeat history again.

And yes it all part of the matrix ,because there is a program running and where the one creating it (mind control, belief system) stop that and you stop the program. Did know that there is a reality in the spirit realm that's a reflection of this world only that explains what really is happening here. (Your not always seeing what really going own)

Truth will said your free , but first it will piss you off.
I can assure you there is only one truth because the rest is mind control.
The truth is simple not complex there only 2 ways in this universe 0 or 1

I'm trying to motivate people to try and think harder by challenge there beliefs, but there always feel attacked in some short of way.

Malcolm Linus
27th February 2011, 19:06
I think we will see in about ten years who was right, and I think the answer will be everybody. In my opinion, our bodies are not so similar as the mainstream would like it to appear. Some of us are "built" to eat meat, some of us are not. Making this planet a giant melting-pot for all kinds of physical beings is a great and exciting experiment (adventure). I can't wait for the moment when we realize this and stop judging each other. Until that time, I hope the carnivores among us will have a nice and juicy steak, and the herbivores enjoy their plate of delicious vegetables.

nearing
27th February 2011, 19:11
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now. :love:

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

You are right, Rayne (and now I see you are a she!). This thread is a very small sample of the overall population. And it doesn't change what I said, there can be people who are very healthy on a cooked meat diet as well. The point I am trying to make is that due to genetic variations, there isn't going to be just one diet that is right for all.

So this judgment of others for what they choose to eat and thrive on is utter nonsense.

I personally used to be a strict vegetarian and found that even though I was doing it right, I was not healthy (and I am very nutritionally aware)! So, I slowly began to reintroduce meat (only free range grass fed, 'organically' and humanely raised) into my diet and became much healthier for it. Now, I always gives thanks to the soul that left it's body in order for me to sustain my body with it's flesh and I eat rare (not raw, at least not yet). But if there are vegans out there who thrive on being one, that's great for them!

For people here of all places to throw judgment on someone who chooses to eat meat is just wrong-headed. Surely, they can see that no one is eating anything out of pure malice. No one here hasn't thought long and hard about what they put into their bodies. We should be supporting each other's arduous efforts to do the right thing, whatever that may be for one's own being.

Lettherebelight
27th February 2011, 19:22
I'm sure if slaughterhouses were made of glass, we would all eat a lot less meat.

In the vedas there are mantras recommended that one should chant at the time of killing an animal for food.
The translation roughly is, 'In this life, I take your life. In the next, you will take mine.'
Maybe that's one of the reasons why millions of people in India have had a largely vegetarian diet for thousands of years!...without supplements :)
The brotherhood of all life is ingrained in their culture. They find it distasteful to use the term 'meat'; they always describe a carnivorous menu as 'non-veg'.
At the same time, they recognize that certain sections of society will always eat meat.

It's a personal thing. A choice we are lucky enough to be able to make at this point in time.

What we eat affects not only our body, but our consciousness as well.

Everyone should do what they feel is right for themselves.

Rayne T.
28th February 2011, 02:11
Okay, I need to chime in.

I have seen people in this thread say that they tried to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and got sicker and sicker and didn't get healthy until they ate meat.

I have seen the opposite on this thread as well. Vegans who say they are healthy and happy and, dammit, no one should be eating meat.

This makes the medical professional in me very curious.

OBVIOUSLY, we are not all the same.

Maybe there really is something to this Eat for Your Blood Type Diet thing. I sort of poo-pooed that without looking at it before but, hey, only 15% of us are Rhesus negative, right? So perhaps those are the 15% of the human population that would die without eating meat! (Or vice versa as I have not read the book yet)

So, wouldn't this whole judgmentalism about what is and isn't right for us to eat be a moot point if there are a certain percentage that require meat to be healthy?

Carmody says she/he feels the suffering of death when eating meat - maybe her/his blood type is the kind that would be poisoned by meat.

Rayne says she/he was dying trying to live a vegan lifestyle and has come back from brink of death on raw meat. Maybe her/his blood type requires meat!

Can we all stop with the judging of others? We are supposed to be a little higher spiritually here than most other places on the net. Can we start acting it?

Okay, I feel better now. :love:

*off to the bookstore to find that book*

there is only one problem with this though...All those who say they got better after quiting eat, all quit COOKED meat. Not one person quit raw meat, and felt better.

Love and Light, Rayne

You are right, Rayne (and now I see you are a she!). This thread is a very small sample of the overall population. And it doesn't change what I said, there can be people who are very healthy on a cooked meat diet as well. The point I am trying to make is that due to genetic variations, there isn't going to be just one diet that is right for all.

So this judgment of others for what they choose to eat and thrive on is utter nonsense.

I personally used to be a strict vegetarian and found that even though I was doing it right, I was not healthy (and I am very nutritionally aware)! So, I slowly began to reintroduce meat (only free range grass fed, 'organically' and humanely raised) into my diet and became much healthier for it. Now, I always gives thanks to the soul that left it's body in order for me to sustain my body with it's flesh and I eat rare (not raw, at least not yet). But if there are vegans out there who thrive on being one, that's great for them!

For people here of all places to throw judgment on someone who chooses to eat meat is just wrong-headed. Surely, they can see that no one is eating anything out of pure malice. No one here hasn't thought long and hard about what they put into their bodies. We should be supporting each other's arduous efforts to do the right thing, whatever that may be for one's own being.

Where have I judged anyone? sorry, don't understand you. As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter. You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic, and some can't. No judgment, just a discussion.

Love and Light, Rayne

nearing
28th February 2011, 02:39
Where have I judged anyone? sorry, don't understand you. As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter. You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic, and some can't. No judgment, just a discussion.

Love and Light, Rayne

You haven't, Rayne, others have. If you read my whole post again, you might see that I have been agreeing with you.

And I know what cooking at high heat and charring do to food and what eating that food does to body. BBQing meat is asking for colon and rectal cancer.

I eat meat rare, even bloody, but so far I haven't been able to go raw. I am kind of like my cat in this manner. He loves the canned food that is just opened, but if it has been in the fridge, he will turn his nose to it until it has warmed up. :hungry:

9eagle9
28th February 2011, 03:14
Oh I don't doubt you find me insensitive. The central hypocrisy here is our belief systems are our sacred cows and occasionally somethign shows up to make the cows stampede.

"Oh I wouldn't eat a cow but I expect others to eat a line of bull (chuckle).

No. I don't think anyone is intentionally shoveling bull. The problem they are not consciously aware of the illogic of the belief systems because they are derived from a sensitive emotional state.

A handful of people present two or more opposing beleif systems as a 'truth'. Not to mention putting words in people's mouths. I don't think any meat eater here has admitted to eating from slaughter houses.

The belief systems that are published all contradict each other even though they came from the same person.

The person who notices these contradictions is therefore rendered insensitive because I didn't pretend there were NOT several different opposing beliefs clashing at each other. You cannot make your beleif systems be in alignment with each other so its my fault because I noticed?

Brilliant. But predictable. The whole basis of why people are here on Avalon is because they woke up to the fact that they were being fed two opposing sets of beliefs.

My only fault is that I notice when someone hands me two or more opposing beliefs that don't even agree with other. Dare I say I'm SENSITIVE to opposing beliefs. If one didn't wall paper the universe and impose them on others as some sort of central truth there would be little for me to notice.

If one is not responsible with their belief systems I should be expected to treat them with tender loving care?

Lol. Now do you see why I laugh? You expect me to do something you are not willing to do yourself.



I work with animals in spirit. Totems. Or rather they have chosen me to work with. They've chosen to sacrifice their life to give me a greater wisdom to share with my fellow kin. The owl that flew into me virtually committing suicide on my chest, my brother hawk that dive bombed my car until he threw himself to his death so I would acknowledge his wisdom. So I would wake up and be aware of their teachings. My sister deer, my grandfather eagle. Why did they give me this wisdom. Because I didn't have it. That's all. Not because I was special just because I needed it and the time came when I could accept it without making it greater or lesser than what it was.

It just was, it just is. I didn't need to understand it I only needed to accept it and honor it. That's all that is required of me.

They don't understand why you'd yearn for their wisdom in spirit, but deny their flesh as filthy. How dare you when they are possessed of so much more than you. I honor the filthy death you put in your mouth more than I honor you because you have contempt for those who would honor you. Unconditionally.

All of them have willingly given to me their wisdom through the path of death and left a token of their former physicality to remind me of it. Did I cringe from these teachings because they were death, did I disparage them because they were not of my understanding? Would you?

Oh but you are.

That they sang a song to me simply because they wanted to sing and not because there was some greater understanding in it. There wasn't. Not that a human could understand . They just wanted to share the gift of their song. Yet we demand and expect an understanding of that song, demand some meaning, when all is given without conditions. Or meanings.

All given to me by their willing choice to go into death to give it to me. .It wasn't given by consumption or denial. Would I dishonor a sacrifice that was made unconditionally in order to share with my brothers in sisters. No but my brothers and sisters would dishonor their gift even as they disparaged the vessel that held that wisdom.

I didn't ask it from them. I didn't take it from them. It was not even inkling in my mind when these events occurred to think I deserved such honor.

Their died by their own volition to do this. Did I kill these animals these brothers and sisters of mine to gain their wisdom? What they had to offer. I didn't need to. Did I ask or require a sacrifice of the? . No. They made the decision and they gave it to me, even giving their life to give because they understand their purpose in order to sustain my spirit to learn and to grow into myself as authentically as they conducted their lives they gave up for the greater good. Because they know their purpose and try so very hard to help us to know ours.

But those whom they'd reach out to sneer at the flesh. Are they surprised when their spirit is not acknowledged or heard because we are so fixated on the flesh. If you hate their flesh so badly you expect they'd offer their soft voice to be heard?

Am I their murderer? Did I commit a wrong doing when they died without my interference to give themselves to me. Did I consume their death? Would they judge me if I did? Or would you? Or would they be honored when I made ritual of their flesh a reflection of accepting their wisdom.

When I look through my medicines and see the feathers, skulls, bones, tails and hides the remains of all that was offered to me, and I listen to how people judge and dishonor those who teach us by making them idols.....they gave me the flesh of their back so I could drum and sing their song. And people revile it.

I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

9eagle9,i thought wehther to react to any of your posts on this subject.i dont say it often,but i find a lot of unsensitivness in them and an inability to put yourself in other creatures shues.you are more than welcom to get back at me if you wish.i have nothing against you or other people with similar thinking but i will prefer Carmody's reaction as someone who consumes meat and yet stop and thinks about the meaning of it all, to the very convenient theory that animals were given to us as tools for our own use (how noble of them) i do not agree.please be kind enough to explain it to them while watching this: http://vimeo.com/11518271.

i can only hope that you take your wonderfull signature seriously:"i dont believe everything i think". but even if not, let me give you a hint,whatever senses wrong and feels wrong and is done in hidden places and not in the open (slaughter houses) while creatures are mooooing and crying in agony is wrong! of course if anyone quietly and calmly watchs this and reflects how they were volunteering for this...well,against this i have no answer.i will give-up.
the gap is too big between our perceptions and feelings.

lets agree not agree.unfortunetly not you nor me will pay the price of this Difference in perceptions.

be blessed dear sister

DeMeeee
28th February 2011, 03:17
What works for one does not work for all, there is not a diet that is universal.
We each need to find what works for our own body, our own way, and listening to our body.
It will tell you what it needs. We all come from various backgrounds, genetics, and ailments, etc….

Yes it is helpful to research, listen and learn, but most are concluded from studies (which have issues) and most don’t take in varying unique individual considerations. There also so many chemicals in our foods, water, and air that it’s amazing our bodies do so well no matter what one’s eating.

When people make blanket statements, it falls in the line of judgment and a food “religion” status… Find what works for you. It will also change as you age and as toxins dissolve, organs recover. I do feel that we have been meat eaters to some degree in the past. I also believe that our consciousness and DNA structures are shifting and we will become plant based in our future.

9eagle9
28th February 2011, 03:37
People will get hungry enough to began hunting and trapping for vegan spiritualists. They'd probably be quite toxic considering all the grain they'd eaten. ..(chuckle) Then we are consuming the energy of their morality and judgements. Poor energy food. Of course they aren't consuming animals for the same reason I wouldn't consume them...lol.

One step removed from the PETA people who release lab animals to give them back life and the animals promptly go out into the free world and die because they don't know how to exist outside in a natural state. That's not taken into consideration though so I have to presume this wasn't about animal welfare at all. The animal died because of the PETA people. They die because the PETA people have free'd the animals only because they themselves feel imprisoned.

Not thinking beyond the implications of their emotional driven state to find the illogic and destruction in their beliefs.





I would have to add is there not anyone here who would break the law to save someone's life?

The 'laws' we are creating? Are they more important than someone's life, quality life, and well being? And if someone broke a law to bring themselves back to a quality of living why besmirch it with your laws? Is it because your quality of life in spite of your laws is not quite what you want it to be. Thus you create laws in the hope that it improves your quality of life? i see people here who have broken the laws in order to have their quality of living but don't seem to think others should be able to break the laws that kept them down.

I can see a future when the vegan "spiritual" elitists outlaw meat eating. They will be living on spirulina and hemp seeds while the less fortunate will be forced to buy beans and rice because it's all they can afford.

Dennis Leahy
28th February 2011, 05:42
People will get hungry enough to began hunting and trapping for vegan spiritualists.

hahahahahaha "This is my body, which shall be given up for you" - oh wait a minute, that guy ate fish.

Dennis

Mu2143
28th February 2011, 07:31
Where have I judged anyone? sorry, don't understand you. As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter. You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic, and some can't. No judgment, just a discussion.

Love and Light, Rayne




Where have I judged anyoneDid I say you did, no ? I was making a point and it is indeed a discussion but some people here feel this way.


You are basically trying to tell me that some people can be healthy eating arsenic That are your words not mine.


As far as cooked meat goes, I can give you a detailed description of what it does in the body, and any cooked food for that matter I already know this, when you cook anything its no longer food its dead!

chelmostef
28th February 2011, 08:02
I would say I want to puke and revile you.

Instead I just ....
l
LAFF MY ASS OFFFFFFF

At how much wiser are my animal kin than you.

These words are not kind or showing empathy at all, but words of grandeur and of a divine higher status.


Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

Instead I laugh because if I didn't I'd cry at how out of touch people even as their mouths talk about how pure they are.

The whole point is someone cured themselves eating raw meat. That's a miracle. Provided by the natural world.

And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.



Yeah the ego usually doesn't like things it doesn't want to hear. The spirit listens though.

I sincerely hope it does.


And then a lot more people had to make it about themselves.... using sacred things to defile others.

By me sharing my life and things that are very personal and close to my heart a story which of abstinence, I am taking sacred things and defiling others. It makes me sad you feel this way.


Round and round in cirles we go!

Have a good day I wish you well.


You wouldn't be sad if you .... stopped taking every word that comes from my mouth PERSONALLY because this isn't about YOU or any one individual. It's about US. You are just re emphasizing the point I made. Everytime someone speaks someone has to make it about them. It is and has always been about US collectively. And we can't remove whats on our plates before meddling in others, there is no hope for us to be healthy collectively living species.

If I have the power to make YOU sad then I have been bestowed with a great deal of power indeed...only because you gave it to me.

I am not your abuser and I am not the source of your sadness. Stop blaming your feelings on other people.

If people would stop imposing their crap on other people the world would be a much better place altogether.


If you take my words and think I have projected something on you that is my mistake my friend.
I took your words " I want to puke and revile you"(A personal emotive word) and should have laughed with you.
When I said I feel sad because of your comments towards me, I should have never projected sadness onto you. Again I take that back. Instead I laugh with you.

There are many a blinkered horse in this paddock.

There are also many spiritual teachers that teach abstinence as a path to enlightenment.

I think I will remove myself from this merry go round as its just creating negativity(Do not spin my words I am attempting to be nice) and this is not what I am about. Thank You :)

Limor Wolf
28th February 2011, 11:55
that was a wierd discussion.one side was politly talking about other creatures suffering and another side talked about themselvs,how they are feeling,how they are being deprived..and than this need to defend and attack from both our sides.no good vibes. thats not a real openess for discussion or understanding both point of views.

i just hope that this saying might prove us wrong one day:
"Parallel lines never meet".

Chelmostef,can i join you?!

good day everyone!

*peace*harmony*compassion*empathy*

-no more "spiritual" no less "spiritual" than others,just a concerned citizen,thats all.
(planet earth)

chelmostef
28th February 2011, 12:39
Chelmostef,can i join you?!

good day everyone!

*peace*harmony*compassion*empathy*

Of course you can all are welcome! :)

Love and peace to all :luv:

Janos
1st March 2011, 01:08
I think this sums it up pretty nicely:

GKTsWjbjQ8E

Rayne T.
1st March 2011, 01:09
Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne

Dennis Leahy
1st March 2011, 01:14
Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne
I tried, in post #162. The Blue words are text links.

Dennis

9eagle9
1st March 2011, 01:26
then eat your words...



....ooo somebody ate a bad word....

Janos
1st March 2011, 01:49
(shortened for brevity by Janos)

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp...

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope



You are actually seriously comparing the holocaust to killing an animal for food, or even domestic meat production?

I know how commercial meat is raised, and it's barbaric. But the practice of eating meat doesn't have to be barbaric. Animals raised for consumption and properly handled have a much swifter, cleaner, and more painless death than any of us dare hope to have when we pass on. Nor does it make someone barbaric because they choose to eat meat, and in some cases, it's a life or death situation for them.

Rare indeed is the individual that says they'd rather die than eat something that can help them. I find those folks a bit odd, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

I'm pretty sure we all didn't incarnate here to die pointlessly from eating toxins in our food and water.

You can't harm anything anyway. (imho) Either it is an immortal soul, or it isn't. If a shark ate my wife, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't be mad at the shark for being a shark. I'd say that she shouldn't have gone swimming where sharks were known to be!

What's that term that references how many posts/pages that it takes for any discussion on the internet on ANY subject to eventually reference Nazis, Hitler, or the Holocaust? Can't think of it offhand, but... Yea...

No offense LIMOR, but ye are WAY off base here with those comments.

Stable, rational people do not compare the atrocities of the Nazis in WWII with their neighbor, say, eating a chicken that they've humanely raised for that express purpose.

I'm sure glad human activists don't do the same things that animal activists do. ;)

vmXyf2eOZyY&NR

Janos
1st March 2011, 02:03
Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

And you'll be waiting until Hades freezes over, because it doesn't exist.

Everyone I know that was a vegetarian in their 30's, is now (surprise surprise) not so very healthy in their 50's and beyond. (Of course all that 'good for you' soy probably didn't help much either...)

People want to talk teeth?

Out of all my teeth there are 4 front and bottom at are not expressly sharp. Every thing else, even my molars, have very noticeable points on them. (4 points)

When I eat most grains I feel ill afterwards. I can eat brown rice if it is in something, like a soup, but by itself is asking for problems.

I am a protein nutritional type, and feel not well at all if I eat anything else. High sugar sweet fruit is the worse, followed by potatoes.

However, wild fruits such as tart blackberries or wild blueberries aren't bad, and I can eat a few handfuls without issue.

The best for me are wild greens, such as dandelions and plantains and such, (the potherb, not the banana looking thing!), which I can eat raw or cooked without issue.

For those interested in such things, "Green Deane' has some very interesting information and videos on Youtube. I think the site is www.eattheweeds.com

Vids can be found on youtube by doing a search on 'Green Deane'.

9eagle9
1st March 2011, 02:47
Plantain is a very versatile plant, I have four acres of not grass but plantain. Mostly male plaintain, I have to import some ladies in here. The female has less spikey thingies in the leaves but if you pulp them really good they are a most excellent poultice for burns, wrinkles, sunburn and skin conditions. Plaintain poultice will prevent scarring. Dandelion roots are excellent blood tonic very good for cancer. Burdock, plaintain and dandelion leaves all mixed together is very good. Not to mention the medicinal value.

I love weeds.

Soy is a horrible plant. Before we tampered with it, it was horribly toxic. Now its just ...you know...sorta toxic. A lot of the toxicity found in beef is because of feeding them soy bi product. The average amercian diet has so much soy in it as a filler that you get the equivalent of six birthcontrol pills worth of estrogen a day. What men must think of that, snorfing down estrogen like that. I can't imagine what a person on a soy heavy diet experiences in terms of of having their hormonal markers taken up by soy. Not to mention what it does to your thyroid. ONe of those things the government and fda imposed on us. They just stuck it out there that it was healthy and people just accepted it.

Its not. I wouldn't touch it with someone elses mouth.

Carmody
1st March 2011, 02:59
I miss peanut oil cooked french fries. mmmmmm.

Justano
1st March 2011, 03:09
I recently moved in with 2 vegetarians and its kinda been rubbin off on me, and being broke adds to the incentive of not buying meat. But Im all about being healthy(relativly) and what not,and i was pretty much raised a carnivore, but the concept of eating raw meat just sounds disgusting to me, Rayne you said you ate raw hamburgers bout a pound a day, like just straight up cold flavorless meat? How do you store it if your not supposed to freeze it? Im going to start looking around town for a place to get good meat not from some facory farm, but i would need a serious case of the munchies to stomach raw beef.

13th Warrior
1st March 2011, 03:50
Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne

I don't have a dog in this fight but, i do have a couple comments.

Expensive is a realtive term i'd say; grass feed free range beef and the like aren't exactly cheap...

Rayne, have you given a listen to David Wolf at all? He seems to do quite well with his diet. I know he is high on supper foods but, he also promots wild edible foods (read this as free).

I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on tv but, I did stay at a Holday Inn Express last night; I suspect those that have problems with digesting fruits and grains are having problems with candida.

Lord Sidious
1st March 2011, 03:58
(shortened for brevity by Janos)

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp...

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope



You are actually seriously comparing the holocaust to killing an animal for food, or even domestic meat production?

I know how commercial meat is raised, and it's barbaric. But the practice of eating meat doesn't have to be barbaric. Animals raised for consumption and properly handled have a much swifter, cleaner, and more painless death than any of us dare hope to have when we pass on. Nor does it make someone barbaric because they choose to eat meat, and in some cases, it's a life or death situation for them.

Rare indeed is the individual that says they'd rather die than eat something that can help them. I find those folks a bit odd, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

I'm pretty sure we all didn't incarnate here to die pointlessly from eating toxins in our food and water.

You can't harm anything anyway. (imho) Either it is an immortal soul, or it isn't. If a shark ate my wife, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't be mad at the shark for being a shark. I'd say that she shouldn't have gone swimming where sharks were known to be!

What's that term that references how many posts/pages that it takes for any discussion on the internet on ANY subject to eventually reference Nazis, Hitler, or the Holocaust? Can't think of it offhand, but... Yea...

No offense LIMOR, but ye are WAY off base here with those comments.

Stable, rational people do not compare the atrocities of the Nazis in WWII with their neighbor, say, eating a chicken that they've humanely raised for that express purpose.

I'm sure glad human activists don't do the same things that animal activists do. ;)

vmXyf2eOZyY&NR

Just be aware that English is not Limor's first language, so what she means and what you read may be different.
I think she is trying to equate suffering.

Rayne T.
1st March 2011, 07:01
I recently moved in with 2 vegetarians and its kinda been rubbin off on me, and being broke adds to the incentive of not buying meat. But Im all about being healthy(relativly) and what not,and i was pretty much raised a carnivore, but the concept of eating raw meat just sounds disgusting to me, Rayne you said you ate raw hamburgers bout a pound a day, like just straight up cold flavorless meat? How do you store it if your not supposed to freeze it? Im going to start looking around town for a place to get good meat not from some facory farm, but i would need a serious case of the munchies to stomach raw beef.

There isn't a good way that I know of to store it for long, unless you are able to get it fresh - and I mean within a day of butching, and then vacum pack it. That will last over a week, and then a few days more after it is put in regular wrapping. The "fresh" meat at the grocery stores have been vacum packed for up to 2 weeks before they rewrap them for shoppers. Gross I know. That's part of the reason grocery store meat tastes so blah and yucky. Truly fresh raw meat is delicious. Most people have never had it, and never will.

That leads me to something else. You know how chicken in the supermarkets is all light colored and the fat is white? We raised a few chickens this year - organically, and free range. They ate all kinds of bugs and pasture stuff. Anyway, when we butchered them, the meat is darker, and the fat isn't white, it's yellow. Not only that, but it smells exactly like the best Kentucky Fried Chicken seasoning. I didn't know that there was anything that smelled like that that didn't have msg in it. It was unbelievable, and tasted great too -raw! I know that the people who make those seasonings know exactly what to make them smell and taste like. They are imitating the real thing that our bodies crave. They know what real chicken smells like.....how many of us do? Sorry, but this is shocking to me.

Anyway, you might have to just shop more often if you want fresh meat. I've thought about finding a way to make jerky, but can't find a way that doesn't use so much salt, but I don't know if that would be much different than cooking it.

Love and Light,
Rayne

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne

I don't have a dog in this fight but, i do have a couple comments.

Expensive is a realtive term i'd say; grass feed free range beef and the like aren't exactly cheap...

Rayne, have you given a listen to David Wolf at all? He seems to do quite well with his diet. I know he is high on supper foods but, he also promots wild edible foods (read this as free).

I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on tv but, I did stay at a Holday Inn Express last night; I suspect those that have problems with digesting fruits and grains are having problems with candida.

Thanks, I started to listen to him once, and all I heard about were superfoods, and I turned him off.

Love and Light, Rayne

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne
I tried, in post #162. The Blue words are text links.



Dennis

Thanks Dennis, I didn't see them, but will look.

Love and Light, Rayne

Rayne T.
1st March 2011, 07:12
Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne
I tried, in post #162. The Blue words are text links.

Dennis

Just checked out your links...one was only cooked foods - I'd be dead in a week from eating those recipes, and the other link only had articles about superfoods, hemp seeds, and other nuts!

chelmostef
1st March 2011, 08:15
Earthlings trailer, can you make the connection?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW3gunMSCu4

Sick of vegans?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9qdPbmQZb0&feature=player_embedded#at=251


Round and round we go!

9eagle9
1st March 2011, 13:07
Candida could account for the DIGESTIVE part of it.

I can digest most anything including raw meat , cooked meat, tree bark, and bulldozer blades without discomfort but just because one can digest grains and fruits doesn't mean the toxicity isn't present systemically. Which may mean feeling like you have a hang over for a week, after consuming those sorts of carbohydrates even though you didn't get a bad reaction in the digestive tract. Insulin resistance usually means your body is resisting something the body doesn't' want present. Its not always sugar or starch.

But Candida would go away on its own after a few weeks of a raw meat, or just meat diet that included some raw low starch vegetables because you are starving out the sugar and starches necessary for it to survive.

Physical alcoholism is also a culprit even though the person isn't a drinker. Most recovered alcoholics are advised to stay away from starchy grains. So are people who are attempting to stop smoking.

Grains are notorious for having fungal and microbial conditions present on them while still in the field, and those effect liver function which i suspect where my issue is coming from. But its not because something is wrong with my liver, there's something wrong with the grains.

Candida is usually the first thing that is ruled out anyway. If one cannot correct yeast overgrowth with conventional dietary measures something like Agrisept-L will knock it out in a few weeks without distressing the alimentary tract.

But Candida could account for the hysteria exhibited in some vegetarians, along with insufficient amino acids that contribute to supporting good emotional and mental health. with vegetarianism because the sugar-starch combination sets up a nice condition for it to grow in. But there's other fungal and microbial conditions that exist on grains particularly grassy grains, that can also account for the 'high' feeling that vegans-vegetatrians describe as 'spiritual.'

But Celiac disease could be a culprit too. Gluten toxicity I'm sorry comes from certain grains. It will also mimic neurological diseases like Parkinsons and muscle-nerve malaise like Fibromialgia . When those are present, one takes the sufferer off any sort of grain related product. Parkinson's people are often times cured by taking them off grains and wheats.

Or a missing enzyme marker, or one of the number of microbial conditions that modern medicine overlooks and are only treated by those practitioners who acknowledge they exist. (ie; not doctors)

Unfortunately modern medicine has taught us to clump people under blanket conditions and no longer treats us on an individual basis for OPTIMAL health. They treat us blanket wise for statistical, range normal health.









Still patiently waiting to hear about the raw vegetarian diet that doesn't include exotic expensive superfoods, excessive nuts or fruit, and that supplies all of our nutritional requirements.

Love and Light, Rayne

I don't have a dog in this fight but, i do have a couple comments.

Expensive is a realtive term i'd say; grass feed free range beef and the like aren't exactly cheap...

Rayne, have you given a listen to David Wolf at all? He seems to do quite well with his diet. I know he is high on supper foods but, he also promots wild edible foods (read this as free).

I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on tv but, I did stay at a Holday Inn Express last night; I suspect those that have problems with digesting fruits and grains are having problems with candida.

Carmody
1st March 2011, 15:11
My comment about the complex chemical stew in processed foods and the bad aspects of eating farmed meats is about getting that out of one's system..in order to get to the higher vibrational states. That was the point behind that comment. To remove the lower vibrations with regard to their entry to your given system. Balloons can't float of you drag them down with rocks. It really is that simple, IMO and IME.

Rayne T.
2nd March 2011, 22:42
Earthlings trailer, can you make the connection?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW3gunMSCu4

Sick of vegans?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9qdPbmQZb0&feature=player_embedded#at=251


Round and round we go!

The Earthlings trailer I like, the other video is complete B.S. She's full of nothing but opinions and misinformation about meat- all of the bad health effects of meat for example, that she mentions are about cooked meat only. She knows nothing about the health giving and healing effects of raw meat. Then, all of her other information is based on the cruelty and pollution and waste that occurs with factory farming- something that I, as a meat eater, am against. She's of the opinion that some giant "we" must come up with some sustainable solution to the world's food problem. She's completely against and can't concieve of the idea of personal responsibility. Not to mention, that the arrogant, self-righteous and judgemental attitude of that girl ought to be a clear indicator that she's full of it.

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 05:34
Janos originally posted:

Re: The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism
Originally Posted by LIMOR
(shortened for brevity by Janos)

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp...

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope


You are actually seriously comparing the holocaust to killing an animal for food, or even domestic meat production?

I know how commercial meat is raised, and it's barbaric. But the practice of eating meat doesn't have to be barbaric. Animals raised for consumption and properly handled have a much swifter, cleaner, and more painless death than any of us dare hope to have when we pass on. Nor does it make someone barbaric because they choose to eat meat, and in some cases, it's a life or death situation for them.

Rare indeed is the individual that says they'd rather die than eat something that can help them. I find those folks a bit odd, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

I'm pretty sure we all didn't incarnate here to die pointlessly from eating toxins in our food and water.

You can't harm anything anyway. (imho) Either it is an immortal soul, or it isn't. If a shark ate my wife, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't be mad at the shark for being a shark. I'd say that she shouldn't have gone swimming where sharks were known to be!

What's that term that references how many posts/pages that it takes for any discussion on the internet on ANY subject to eventually reference Nazis, Hitler, or the Holocaust? Can't think of it offhand, but... Yea...

No offense LIMOR, but ye are WAY off base here with those comments.

Stable, rational people do not compare the atrocities of the Nazis in WWII with their neighbor, say, eating a chicken that they've humanely raised for that express purpose.

I'm sure glad human activists don't do the same things that animal activists do.


Hey there Janos,

The odd one,unstable,unrational here :)

(i am just kidding, dont worry)

i would like to try and bring yet another perspective wich might be even more off base to some of you and very real and acute to others.and even though it will seem to belong to many of the other threads concerning extraterrestriel reality in our world, i leave it to you to make the comparison and the insight to what is being said here.

i will bring some information from "The Allies of humanity" second book by Marshal vian summers.i will only quote some pharagraphs from "what they want" chapter since i know there is a copy material issue on the forum.i will ask the MODS to please delete this post if they think there is law violation in here.

This part of the book (channeled) talks about alien intervention on earth.it relates to specific ET species.the point is not if this information is true or not,but its importance is by giving us a distinctive feeling how it is to be on the 'other side'.(by the way,i believe this material very close to the truth) here it is :

************************************************

"As we have said,those who are intervining in your world today want to gain control of this world for obvious reasons and for reasons that are not so obvious.
They see this world as a great prize.rich in resources,governed by a race that they believe is unruly and unworthy to be the stewards of such a wondrous place.They also value your world,as we have said,beacuse of its strategic importance and because of the hidden depositories that exist in many parts of the world"

"...in order to acomplish and to maintain this,however,they will have to establish a very deep network of deception that we have been describing all along.
here you must understand that ther regard you as a resource as well.they do not consider you to be their equals.they do not value your religions,your cultures or your customs.they see you primarily as one of the resources of the world.as such,they seek to take advantage of you in all the ways that they can that they deem to be profitable and valuable to their interests."

"To them,you are a potential asset.as an asset you are valued only in what you are worth to them,how you may assist them and what you may be worth as an entity and as a resource in and of yourself.you must stop to consider what this really means.it means that they consider you to be a biological resource,part of a network of resources that exists within this world.in this,they view you much the same way that you view domesticated animals that you use as a resource."

"you use these animals for a variety of reasons,we understand.and this is commom in the greater community in worlds where such animals can be used as food resources.we understand that you use your animals in many different ways,to provide many different kind of benefits and substances and so forth."

"perhaps this is shocking,but you can understand this,for this is how you treat your animals as biological resources-to be used for food,for closing,for medicines,for fuel.in the greater community,biological resources are very valuable because they can be used and altered for a variety of purposes as we have mentioned-for medicinal purposes,for life support purposes and for the breeding of generation of new species."

"This is why many of your animals are taken.they are not simply taken to provide blood products for the interbreeding program.they are taken because these blood products themselves are highly valuable and can be traded very successfully."


So,while the visitors want the mineral resources of your world,they also want things that are much more elemental to the need of life.they need water.they need oxygen.they need blood.they need the resistance factors in blood.they need plasma.they need the biological elements that constitute life and that are fundamental to life everywhere.
this means that they need you as a biological resource.it is one thing to consider that your world will be used to serve other powers.But the idea that you will be used to serve other powers is another matter altogether and represents a further violation of your fundamental rights."

"As resource,you will be used,and when your usefulness is over,you will be discarded.this is how resources are used.some are preserved.some are used up.just the way that you use resources in your daily life."

"The visitors are here to do business.you are part of the business.your hands.your eyes.your reproductive organs.your blood.your plasma.your biochemistry,This is all part of their business.to them,you are like inteligent live-stock- useful,interesting and commercially important."

"They want to use every part of the world.and they want to use every part of you.just like you would want to use every part of the cow or the sheep or any other domesticated animal that you breed for your own purposes."

"The visitors do not "hate" humanity.They are not cruel and murderous in the sense that you might think.They just view you as a resource the way you view your animals as a resource.To them,though you have inteligence,they consider that you are irredeemably chaotic and unruly,and they do not understand your deeper motivations.they see your technology as being in a rather adolscent phase,and they look at your destructive behaviours with concern,anxiety and repulsion.Being without knowledge,the spiritual foundation,they do not see that what they are prepetrating upon your world is ethically or morally reprehensible.it is merely an opportunity to fullfil their practical neccessities."

"We have been reluctant to tell you certain things because we do not want to lose your attention.we do not want you to turn away in denial,thinking that you cannot face those matters.so we have tried to be extremely carefull in the way that we have presented the situation.but in spite of this,there are certain things you must know and that you cannot readily see from your vantage point."

"Resources are precious in the universe-mineral resources,water resources,biological resources,food resources.large technological societies such as the collectives have an enormous need for resources for their own maintenance.Their commerce is based upon the acquisition of all those things and on the exploration for new sources.This,of course,makes them primarily interested in emerging worlds such as your own,wich are emerging within regions where they have influence and power.

Consider our words.Now we will tell you what you must do."

Rayne T.
3rd March 2011, 16:52
Janos originally posted:

Re: The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism
Originally Posted by LIMOR
(shortened for brevity by Janos)

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp...

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope


You are actually seriously comparing the holocaust to killing an animal for food, or even domestic meat production?

I know how commercial meat is raised, and it's barbaric. But the practice of eating meat doesn't have to be barbaric. Animals raised for consumption and properly handled have a much swifter, cleaner, and more painless death than any of us dare hope to have when we pass on. Nor does it make someone barbaric because they choose to eat meat, and in some cases, it's a life or death situation for them.

Rare indeed is the individual that says they'd rather die than eat something that can help them. I find those folks a bit odd, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

I'm pretty sure we all didn't incarnate here to die pointlessly from eating toxins in our food and water.

You can't harm anything anyway. (imho) Either it is an immortal soul, or it isn't. If a shark ate my wife, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't be mad at the shark for being a shark. I'd say that she shouldn't have gone swimming where sharks were known to be!

What's that term that references how many posts/pages that it takes for any discussion on the internet on ANY subject to eventually reference Nazis, Hitler, or the Holocaust? Can't think of it offhand, but... Yea...

No offense LIMOR, but ye are WAY off base here with those comments.

Stable, rational people do not compare the atrocities of the Nazis in WWII with their neighbor, say, eating a chicken that they've humanely raised for that express purpose.

I'm sure glad human activists don't do the same things that animal activists do.


Hey there Janos,

The odd one,unstable,unrational here :)

(i am just kidding, dont worry)

i would like to try and bring yet another perspective wich might be even more off base to some of you and very real and acute to others.and even though it will seem to belong to many of the other threads concerning extraterrestriel reality in our world, i leave it to you to make the comparison and the insight to what is being said here.

i will bring some information from "The Allies of humanity" second book by Marshal vian summers.i will only quote some pharagraphs from "what they want" chapter since i know there is a copy material issue on the forum.i will ask the MODS to please delete this post if they think there is law violation in here.

This part of the book (channeled) talks about alien intervention on earth.it relates to specific ET species.the point is not if this information is true or not,but its importance is by giving us a distinctive feeling how it is to be on the 'other side'.(by the way,i believe this material very close to the truth) here it is :

************************************************

"As we have said,those who are intervining in your world today want to gain control of this world for obvious reasons and for reasons that are not so obvious.
They see this world as a great prize.rich in resources,governed by a race that they believe is unruly and unworthy to be the stewards of such a wondrous place.They also value your world,as we have said,beacuse of its strategic importance and because of the hidden depositories that exist in many parts of the world"

"...in order to acomplish and to maintain this,however,they will have to establish a very deep network of deception that we have been describing all along.
here you must understand that ther regard you as a resource as well.they do not consider you to be their equals.they do not value your religions,your cultures or your customs.they see you primarily as one of the resources of the world.as such,they seek to take advantage of you in all the ways that they can that they deem to be profitable and valuable to their interests."

"To them,you are a potential asset.as an asset you are valued only in what you are worth to them,how you may assist them and what you may be worth as an entity and as a resource in and of yourself.you must stop to consider what this really means.it means that they consider you to be a biological resource,part of a network of resources that exists within this world.in this,they view you much the same way that you view domesticated animals that you use as a resource."

"you use these animals for a variety of reasons,we understand.and this is commom in the greater community in worlds where such animals can be used as food resources.we understand that you use your animals in many different ways,to provide many different kind of benefits and substances and so forth."

"perhaps this is shocking,but you can understand this,for this is how you treat your animals as biological resources-to be used for food,for closing,for medicines,for fuel.in the greater community,biological resources are very valuable because they can be used and altered for a variety of purposes as we have mentioned-for medicinal purposes,for life support purposes and for the breeding of generation of new species."

"This is why many of your animals are taken.they are not simply taken to provide blood products for the interbreeding program.they are taken because these blood products themselves are highly valuable and can be traded very successfully."


So,while the visitors want the mineral resources of your world,they also want things that are much more elemental to the need of life.they need water.they need oxygen.they need blood.they need the resistance factors in blood.they need plasma.they need the biological elements that constitute life and that are fundamental to life everywhere.
this means that they need you as a biological resource.it is one thing to consider that your world will be used to serve other powers.But the idea that you will be used to serve other powers is another matter altogether and represents a further violation of your fundamental rights."

"As resource,you will be used,and when your usefulness is over,you will be discarded.this is how resources are used.some are preserved.some are used up.just the way that you use resources in your daily life."

"The visitors are here to do business.you are part of the business.your hands.your eyes.your reproductive organs.your blood.your plasma.your biochemistry,This is all part of their business.to them,you are like inteligent live-stock- useful,interesting and commercially important."

"They want to use every part of the world.and they want to use every part of you.just like you would want to use every part of the cow or the sheep or any other domesticated animal that you breed for your own purposes."

"The visitors do not "hate" humanity.They are not cruel and murderous in the sense that you might think.They just view you as a resource the way you view your animals as a resource.To them,though you have inteligence,they consider that you are irredeemably chaotic and unruly,and they do not understand your deeper motivations.they see your technology as being in a rather adolscent phase,and they look at your destructive behaviours with concern,anxiety and repulsion.Being without knowledge,the spiritual foundation,they do not see that what they are prepetrating upon your world is ethically or morally reprehensible.it is merely an opportunity to fullfil their practical neccessities."

"We have been reluctant to tell you certain things because we do not want to lose your attention.we do not want you to turn away in denial,thinking that you cannot face those matters.so we have tried to be extremely carefull in the way that we have presented the situation.but in spite of this,there are certain things you must know and that you cannot readily see from your vantage point."

"Resources are precious in the universe-mineral resources,water resources,biological resources,food resources.large technological societies such as the collectives have an enormous need for resources for their own maintenance.Their commerce is based upon the acquisition of all those things and on the exploration for new sources.This,of course,makes them primarily interested in emerging worlds such as your own,wich are emerging within regions where they have influence and power.

Consider our words.Now we will tell you what you must do."

That's easy...

We don't eat factory farmed meat, and we stop abusing animals. One does not have to participate in animal abuse in order to eat meat.

It's a preditory universe.

Carlos Castaneda says that a warrior doesn't leave himself standing in the middle of the road to be run over. I agree.

We don't have to be victims to anything, even those alien predators you are talking about.

Survival of the fittest is a good thing. Be a warrior.

Love and Light, Rayne

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 17:44
Rayne.T originally posted:

"thats easy..."

"Survival of the fittest is a good thing"

Is it? ----------------


http://www.mynet.co.il/PicServer2/02022009/2144164/yTIK014351_hh.jpg


http://www.hayadan.org.il/images/content2/people/old_hungarian.JPG


http://blog.lib.umn.edu/schne644/architecture/htdocs/blog/schne644/architecture/hunger.jpg

http://www.datili.co.il/files_media/d8804f0bd76d3b89e28c0c296856a327.jpg

Love &light
Limor

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 17:58
With the qualifier that fitness isn't just about physical health and fitness. That mind, body and spirit are as balanced as possible. One's state of physical fitness doesn't automatically dictate their emotional or mental state are fit.... However it's much easier to achieve a balanced mind and spirit place, if one's body isn't suffering. Some folks can't achieve this optimal balance if their minds are holding on to things that are not serving them. Conversely one's spiritual and mental state can cause conflict in the body. So that's why all three in balance and not resisting each other is important for optimal fitness.

Rayne you noted way up thread that you had some spiritual and emotional energetic work done prior to trying the raw meat-food. Did that help you to find any emotional trauma that may have triggered your body's reaction to a more conventional diet? You don't have to answer if it's too personal.

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 18:02
Limor, some people are quite correctly not allowing themselves to attach into to other peoples inner landscape drama.s. I. You are emotionally identifying with these photos, and their subjects, and attempting to emotionally manipulate us by exposing them to things YOU are emotionally identified with. Because some of us don't have the same wounds you do we aren't triggered by such manipulations. Its not that we are callous, we just have a different level of knowing. If you feel we don't take you seriously its not that at all. Its just we aren't going to climb in your wound with you. That would be doing YOU a great disservice to stir up your pain body more than its already and obviously stirred up.




Rayne.T originally posted:

"thats easy..."

"Survival of the fittest is a good thing"

Is it? ----------------

http://www.mynet.co.il/PicServer2/02022009/2144164/yTIK014351_hh.jpg


http://www.hayadan.org.il/images/content2/people/old_hungarian.JPG


http://blog.lib.umn.edu/schne644/architecture/htdocs/blog/schne644/architecture/hunger.jpg

http://www.datili.co.il/files_media/d8804f0bd76d3b89e28c0c296856a327.jpg

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 19:57
Hi 9eagle9,thank you for your response.i am emotionally identifying with the people in this photos and the situations they are in,very true.
i am not manipulating,i do not attach drama to my life.i do not take others emotions upon myself,but i do recognize.and recognision in others has some value.
no worries,i do not feel that you dont take me seriously.this thread is being read by many silent readers,so maybe some of the angles i presented here will be more beneficial to them.

one last thing.sometimes pain has a purpose in our life.it shows us that something is not quite right and it points to the problem,If we are attentive enough to listen.i am not one to turn my head to the other direction in denial.i believe people want a happy outcome.people want to avoid conflict and challenge.people do not want to change,necessarily.but change is coming to our world today nevertheless.this change in perceptions will come from a deeper understanding.today there is a lot of confusion and ambivalence towords many issues,like the one that we are talking about here.

i read a nice sentence today that i think will be suitable to our 'to eat or not to eat meat' correspondence as well:

"It is not information you need as much as perspective.if you cannot see the situation clearly,what good is having more information? if you cannot know the truth in your own heart,what the information provide for you? you need a little information.you need a lot of perspective.and you need a lot of courage."

only my POV

only the best to us all
~*&^~*&^~*&^&~*

Limor

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 20:23
Then pray tell why are you posting them if not to elicit an emotional response? Which is nearly always a prelude to a drama. Which is manipulation. Some people call it guilt tripping.

I dare say you aren't quite sure why you are doing it. And I realize that.

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 21:03
9eagle9 originally posted:
"I dare say you aren't quite sure why you are doing it. And I realize that"

GOOD FOR YOU!

blessings,
Limor

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 21:09
With that understanding please explain why pain is necessary to purpose when most pain is self created? An old Judeo-Christian precept, correct?

A rather bit in opposition this belief (s) that suffering is okay for humans but animals needn't suffer? Two opposing core beliefs. If one accepts the suffering of humans serves a purpose one would have to reasonably acknowledge the suffering and pain of animals serves a purpose as well?

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 21:28
Dont be ofended dear 9,i think i put all i wanted in here.the table is set and everyone can help themselves to whatever they like and leave the rest that they dont find appetizing.i think we did a good job in presenting both sides of this issue,and i especially thank you for raising your voice as you did...i think you are doing an excelent job...

Limor

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 21:58
.....so you percieve me as suffering now?

hmmm,,,,,,

Lettherebelight
3rd March 2011, 23:18
Survival of the fittest is a natural law of this material world we inhabit. One living entity is food for another.

Emotions are important...empathy, compassion...if sincerely felt with intelligence, they can lead us to higher realms of consciousness.

In the human form we have the opportunity to choose how/what we eat according to our nature, it is an individual choice.

I think the title of this thread of 'one vs the other' is antagonistic.
Thoughtful people, like those here, have very strong convictions about how they
maintain their body, so there's bound to be conflict.

No one will convince me to change something I've found to be true for me, and I can't convince another against their truth.
I hope it doesn't sound wishy washy, but I hear both sides here, loud and clear.

We're lucky we have the luxury to discuss what type of food we eat at all,
So many go without.

Limor Wolf
3rd March 2011, 23:26
9eagle9 said:


.....so you percieve me as suffering now?

hmmm,,,,,,

ha,ha where does this head of yours take you?

:-)

Bless your heart!

9eagle9
3rd March 2011, 23:37
Limor

YOU were the one assumed I was offended. Offense being a form of suffering. I asked you a question. You responded with the following implying I was offended.

Your quote: (not mine btw)

""Dont be ofended dear 9,i think i put all i wanted in here.the table is set and everyone can help themselves to whatever they like and leave the rest that they dont find appetizing.i think we did a good job in presenting both sides of this issue,and i especially thank you for raising your voice as you did...i think you are doing an excelent job...""

Limor

Limor Wolf
4th March 2011, 01:22
O.k,got you. lets shake hands an move on.I feel a little uncomfortable from Ryne.T that we are off-topicing her thread.
nice join date you have.

9eagle9
4th March 2011, 02:05
No wait! It's a dream come true. I've always wanted someone other than myself to be responsible for my moods! To do otherwise means I"M responsible for them!

Limor Wolf
4th March 2011, 02:25
:-)

may all your dreams come true!!

9eagle9
4th March 2011, 03:35
Are you sure? That I won't mess up my purpose of suffering as a human by making all my dreams come true? I mean none of my dreams involve suffering. This sounds pretty important and I wouldn't want to get it wrong.

Carmody
4th March 2011, 06:02
Janos originally posted:

Re: The Raw Primal Diet vs Vegetarianism
Originally Posted by LIMOR
(shortened for brevity by Janos)

i am a family member of a holocaust survivors and those that did not survive.my mother was hiding under a false identity in a village in belgium Among strangers who agreed to take her in exchange for money,her father was murdered by gas at the 'Auschwitz' concentration camp...

But there is one atrocity that is never ending,and that is the animals concetration camp,and trilions of them that are being slaughterd everyday,As if they were objects without a soul.i am not willing to live my life contributing to any of it.my grandfather with other milions was put to death by gas and experienced extremely difficult conditions the months prior to this.

i would not hesitate to say that cows,chicken,lambs,fish are going through the same suffering everyday,without much hope


You are actually seriously comparing the holocaust to killing an animal for food, or even domestic meat production?

I know how commercial meat is raised, and it's barbaric. But the practice of eating meat doesn't have to be barbaric. Animals raised for consumption and properly handled have a much swifter, cleaner, and more painless death than any of us dare hope to have when we pass on. Nor does it make someone barbaric because they choose to eat meat, and in some cases, it's a life or death situation for them.

Rare indeed is the individual that says they'd rather die than eat something that can help them. I find those folks a bit odd, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

I'm pretty sure we all didn't incarnate here to die pointlessly from eating toxins in our food and water.

You can't harm anything anyway. (imho) Either it is an immortal soul, or it isn't. If a shark ate my wife, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't be mad at the shark for being a shark. I'd say that she shouldn't have gone swimming where sharks were known to be!

What's that term that references how many posts/pages that it takes for any discussion on the internet on ANY subject to eventually reference Nazis, Hitler, or the Holocaust? Can't think of it offhand, but... Yea...

No offense LIMOR, but ye are WAY off base here with those comments.

Stable, rational people do not compare the atrocities of the Nazis in WWII with their neighbor, say, eating a chicken that they've humanely raised for that express purpose.

I'm sure glad human activists don't do the same things that animal activists do.


Hey there Janos,

The odd one,unstable,unrational here :)

(i am just kidding, dont worry)

i would like to try and bring yet another perspective wich might be even more off base to some of you and very real and acute to others.and even though it will seem to belong to many of the other threads concerning extraterrestriel reality in our world, i leave it to you to make the comparison and the insight to what is being said here.

i will bring some information from "The Allies of humanity" second book by Marshal vian summers.i will only quote some pharagraphs from "what they want" chapter since i know there is a copy material issue on the forum.i will ask the MODS to please delete this post if they think there is law violation in here.

This part of the book (channeled) talks about alien intervention on earth.it relates to specific ET species.the point is not if this information is true or not,but its importance is by giving us a distinctive feeling how it is to be on the 'other side'.(by the way,i believe this material very close to the truth) here it is :

************************************************

"As we have said,those who are intervining in your world today want to gain control of this world for obvious reasons and for reasons that are not so obvious.
They see this world as a great prize.rich in resources,governed by a race that they believe is unruly and unworthy to be the stewards of such a wondrous place.They also value your world,as we have said,beacuse of its strategic importance and because of the hidden depositories that exist in many parts of the world"

"...in order to acomplish and to maintain this,however,they will have to establish a very deep network of deception that we have been describing all along.
here you must understand that ther regard you as a resource as well.they do not consider you to be their equals.they do not value your religions,your cultures or your customs.they see you primarily as one of the resources of the world.as such,they seek to take advantage of you in all the ways that they can that they deem to be profitable and valuable to their interests."

"To them,you are a potential asset.as an asset you are valued only in what you are worth to them,how you may assist them and what you may be worth as an entity and as a resource in and of yourself.you must stop to consider what this really means.it means that they consider you to be a biological resource,part of a network of resources that exists within this world.in this,they view you much the same way that you view domesticated animals that you use as a resource."

"you use these animals for a variety of reasons,we understand.and this is commom in the greater community in worlds where such animals can be used as food resources.we understand that you use your animals in many different ways,to provide many different kind of benefits and substances and so forth."

"perhaps this is shocking,but you can understand this,for this is how you treat your animals as biological resources-to be used for food,for closing,for medicines,for fuel.in the greater community,biological resources are very valuable because they can be used and altered for a variety of purposes as we have mentioned-for medicinal purposes,for life support purposes and for the breeding of generation of new species."

"This is why many of your animals are taken.they are not simply taken to provide blood products for the interbreeding program.they are taken because these blood products themselves are highly valuable and can be traded very successfully."


So,while the visitors want the mineral resources of your world,they also want things that are much more elemental to the need of life.they need water.they need oxygen.they need blood.they need the resistance factors in blood.they need plasma.they need the biological elements that constitute life and that are fundamental to life everywhere.
this means that they need you as a biological resource.it is one thing to consider that your world will be used to serve other powers.But the idea that you will be used to serve other powers is another matter altogether and represents a further violation of your fundamental rights."

"As resource,you will be used,and when your usefulness is over,you will be discarded.this is how resources are used.some are preserved.some are used up.just the way that you use resources in your daily life."

"The visitors are here to do business.you are part of the business.your hands.your eyes.your reproductive organs.your blood.your plasma.your biochemistry,This is all part of their business.to them,you are like inteligent live-stock- useful,interesting and commercially important."

"They want to use every part of the world.and they want to use every part of you.just like you would want to use every part of the cow or the sheep or any other domesticated animal that you breed for your own purposes."

"The visitors do not "hate" humanity.They are not cruel and murderous in the sense that you might think.They just view you as a resource the way you view your animals as a resource.To them,though you have inteligence,they consider that you are irredeemably chaotic and unruly,and they do not understand your deeper motivations.they see your technology as being in a rather adolscent phase,and they look at your destructive behaviours with concern,anxiety and repulsion.Being without knowledge,the spiritual foundation,they do not see that what they are prepetrating upon your world is ethically or morally reprehensible.it is merely an opportunity to fullfil their practical neccessities."

"We have been reluctant to tell you certain things because we do not want to lose your attention.we do not want you to turn away in denial,thinking that you cannot face those matters.so we have tried to be extremely carefull in the way that we have presented the situation.but in spite of this,there are certain things you must know and that you cannot readily see from your vantage point."

"Resources are precious in the universe-mineral resources,water resources,biological resources,food resources.large technological societies such as the collectives have an enormous need for resources for their own maintenance.Their commerce is based upon the acquisition of all those things and on the exploration for new sources.This,of course,makes them primarily interested in emerging worlds such as your own,wich are emerging within regions where they have influence and power.

Consider our words.Now we will tell you what you must do."

That's easy...

We don't eat factory farmed meat, and we stop abusing animals. One does not have to participate in animal abuse in order to eat meat.

It's a preditory universe.

Carlos Castaneda says that a warrior doesn't leave himself standing in the middle of the road to be run over. I agree.

We don't have to be victims to anything, even those alien predators you are talking about.

Survival of the fittest is a good thing. Be a warrior.

Love and Light, Rayne

Survival of the fittest can also mean moving beyond meat.

We can do this.... if we get the vampires that we allow to rule this world...off our planet and off of us.

It is possible to show the direct physical map to the existence of the vampires.

However it would be best to show the face of a less inflammatory higher reality first. A reality of love and light. For the spin of how this happens, how it rolls out.... is all important.

Basically, you don't want the fear in place first. Fear..is easy to illustrate.

You want the love and the light to be there, in our minds and lives.... so the fear has as little chance as is possible.

Hopefully, from that statement alone, it becomes clear that nothing can break your immortal self and what it can bring to this world.

Pandora's box is not only broken in that moment, it is blown to pieces.

In that moment you claim and gain your freedom- from the fear.

And in the final analysis....that is what this whole exercise is about.