Freemasonry [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

Rimbaud

24th April 2010, 23:21

I would like to open a debate about FreeMasonry as I am an ex Grand Master of the thirty first degree..also an adept of the Rose Croix..in short I am a Mason supposedly a member of the Illuminati.

I joined the Freemasons mainly because I thought that I could do some good in this World. yes there are some dark proceedures in the initiation..but they're in no way Satanic..the first question asked of any of us is.."Do you believe in God" I answered !"YES!" and writing this ,writing at this moment I feel bathed in HIS Glory.

I am NOT a member of the supposed Illuminati although Kerry would "Pidgeon Hole" me as a sort of Satanist nutter. I am none of the above..just a regular bloke, with a lovely Mum and Dad. I am however an extremely high ranking Mason..and am wondering where to distribute our money..I want to do it for the animals ..my Lodge members want the cash to go towards Kids.

Guys and Girls,

I'm so sorry to burst your bubble over Freemasonry..90% of what you read is not true and I'm more than happy to discuss or debate any questions that you'd like to ask.

Best Regards

Rimbaud

perfectresonance

24th April 2010, 23:47

As the saying goes... "be careful what you wish for" :)

But since you ask.

I have concluded some time ago, after research and after talking with masons directly, that "some Illuminati may have been/be masons, but virtually none of the masons know any specific esoteric knowledge that they keep to themselves and won't share with the world. So in that respect, I can concur - Masons are not evil, and if you take a while to study the ritual and know the reasons behind them, they aren't any more dark or strange than a Catholic eating a symbolic part of the body of Christ and drinking his blood. Symbolic cannibalism of your saviour doesn't seem to put off a lot of people, so I don't see why a symbolic death and rebirth ritual is somehow worse.

As for where your Lodge members want to spend the money, that's really for your Lodge members to decide. Our opinion doesn't matter as none of your funds came from our pockets through taxation or by means of having made promises as to what would be done with it.

Personally I'd favour the reduction of human suffering, the increase of opportunity for youth, and I'd think global but act local.

Go to your local college and talk to a student advocate/councilor. See if they can identify some people that are top notch but are having to drop out through financial hardship. Look through your neighbourhood for old, dilapidated or unsafe playgrounds. Visit your local food banks, city missions and night shelters and ask them what they are desperately short of. You'd be surprised how little can go a long way. Look for community volunteers that are angels on earth, but can do with better tools, transport, equipment.

And finally, well done for inviting open questions. Be prepared to have your patience tested ;)

Snowbird

25th April 2010, 00:08

Rimbaud, please allow me to be the first to genuinely thank you for coming onto this board with intention for open discussion. I realize that you have the powerful support of your brothers and sisters within the Masonic Lodge. However, opening discussion such as this, especially on this particular board, requires an open heart and mind.

I think that for the most part, the population at large realizes and accepts the good works and truthful religious underpinnings of the vast majority of Freemasons. Most likely, 90-92% of those who have taken the oath are faithful to good works and to the God that they serve. I was quite amazed when I recently learned that the Rev. Dr. Norman Vincent Peale was a 33 degree Freemason.

My concern and most likely the concern of many others on this board, centers around those 8-10% of Freemasons that you and your brothers and sisters may not even know exist. It is, quite frankly, the secrecy of current and historical malevolent actions that bring these few Freemasons into the same spotlight that shines on the current and former benevolent Masons.

Some might wonder why I or someone else, would speak so freely and openly about a powerful group of mammoth historical proportions. It is because I envision a world into the future devoid of secrecy and unjust power over humanity. May I assume that this is the vision of our future that you and many of your brothers and sisters hold also?

You mentioned in your opening post that 90% of what is heard about the Freemasons is not true. Because I and any others who might join this thread discussion, are not involved with the Freemasons, it will be impossible for us to debate anything with you. We can however, discuss.

3(C)+me

25th April 2010, 00:30

[QUOTE=Rimbaud;13098]I would like to open a debate about FreeMasonry as I am an ex Grand Master of the thirty first degree..also an adept of the Rose Croix..in short I am a Mason supposedly a member of the Illuminati.

I joined the Freemasons mainly because I thought that I could do some good in this World. yes there are some dark proceedures in the initiation..but they're in no way Satanic..the first question asked of any of us is.."Do you believe in God" I answered !"YES!" and writing this ,writing at this moment I feel bathed in HIS Glory.

Ok Questions for you Rimbaud;
1. Why did you quit? You say you are an ex Grandmaster, what happened?
2. I am told there are levels above 33 degree, true?.
3. I am told that Masons would build buildings with secret geometry within them to condiction the space. Secretly of course, so if this organization is not so bad, why all the secrets?. I am also told they have a bloodline to goes all the way to I think it was the Annunki? Yes? Are you a blue blood? Don't worry I will not freak out and probably deal with them daily and don't even know it.
Thanks,
C

Majorion

25th April 2010, 02:46

I'm so sorry to burst your bubble over Freemasonry..90% of what you read is not true and I'm more than happy to discuss or debate any questions that you'd like to ask.
Hi Rimbaud, in my experience what you say is true, the freemasons are just a fraternity really, who've been implicated in almost every major conspiracy to date. They are not "satanic", you're right about that, nor do they "control the world".

The thing that really bothers people is the secrecy, they never get; why all the secrecy. Frankly, anybody that interested could join a lodge just as a learning experience and actually see for themselves, before they judge.

The reason they ask you if you believe in god, during the initiation, is because its a requirement of freemasons to believe in a "supreme being" as they call it, no matter who or what deity, if you believe in something then you're allowed in.

I'm interested to hear, if you're willing to say of course, about how you became a thirty first degree mason, how the system works, will you explain what each level is about, how you "go through the ranks", what's so special with each level, how many levels are there, etc.

All the best,

sunnyrap

25th April 2010, 03:19

I'm very interested in this discussion, and have entered into this type of discussion with a number of other Masons with poor outcomes. My grandfather was a Mason, my grandmother an Eastern Star. My stepfather became a Mason and achieved the 32nd degree, but refused when they wanted to elevate him to the 33rd. He died 6 months after this refusal of a massive heart attack.

I have done a great deal of research about them and their history from a number of sources. Our founding fathers were Masons, and from their perspective, 'keepers of the truth'. Washington is considered by many to be an 'ascended master'. My grandfather was a highschool principle, staunch Baptist, and a good loving man and my grandmother a wonderful Christian woman. So I didn't have any bone to pick with Masons until I stumbled upon their dark side.

I live in a town that is nearly completely run by Masons. If you are not a Mason, your business will likely not survive or thrive. If one is a Mason, he can and may well have gotten away with capital crimes, here. It is well known and well documented that they have abused their acquired power terribly for many decades. This may be entirely to some bad apples spoiling the local barrel, but I've just run into too many instances of this elsewhere to believe that is so. It becomes the old 'power corrupts' and 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' story.

Whatever good intentions may have begun any fraternal order, subversion to power schemes seems to be an ever present hazard. I have to concur that any 'secret' order becomes a target for this. Any groupings based on exclusion seem to eventually corrode at the core. Just an observation.

sunnyrap

25th April 2010, 03:36

By the way, I was told that masons are not made privy to 'real' teachings until well after 33rd degree. I was also shown some of this material that is not revealed, and it is dark indeed. Very dark.

In his book, The New World Order, A. Ralph Epperson states:

The Masons know that they must conceal their horrible secret from the people. That secret is simply the fact that certain of their members worship Lucifer. And that they keep that secret from the overwhelming majority of their own members. And certainly the public is not to know this fact.

In this study we are going to show the connection between Eliphas Levi, one of the most prominent occultists of all time - and Albert Pike one of the most prominent Freemasons of all time. The degree of influence that Eliphas Levi had upon Albert Pike is so great that it should make any thinking Freemason pause to consider what he is involved in.

Albert Pike has been introduced to you as a Freemason; and Eliphas Levi as an occultist. The facts are: Albert Pike was an occultist and a Freemason; and Eliphas Levi was also an occultist and a Freemason. When seen in this light, the attraction that Albert Pike had for the bizarre writings of Levi is not so hard to understand.

The Dictionary of Satanism says of Levi:

LEVI, ELIPHAS French magician and author of works on the occult. Eliphas Levi, whose real name was Alphonse Louis Constant, claimed to have summoned up the ghost of Apollonius of Tyana in London in 1854. Born in Paris about 1810, he is said to have been reincarnated as Aleister Crowley.

Aleister Crowley was the most influential Satanist of all time and Eliphas Levi had such a profound influence on Crowley, that Crowley actually believed that he was Eliphas Levi reincarnated. The influence of Levi can be seen not only on Freemasonry, but also upon modern Satanism. It can also be said of Crowley that he was an occultist and a Freemason. John Charles Cooper said of Levi:

"He popularized occultism in Europe, and through Aleister Crowley, in America. Levi stressed magic as a means to power and emphasized sex and drug abuse."

¤=[Post Update]=¤

By the way, I was told that masons are not made privy to 'real' teachings until well after 33rd degree. I was also shown some of this material that is not revealed, and it is dark indeed. Very dark.

In his book, The New World Order, A. Ralph Epperson states:

The Masons know that they must conceal their horrible secret from the people. That secret is simply the fact that certain of their members worship Lucifer. And that they keep that secret from the overwhelming majority of their own members. And certainly the public is not to know this fact.

In this study we are going to show the connection between Eliphas Levi, one of the most prominent occultists of all time - and Albert Pike one of the most prominent Freemasons of all time. The degree of influence that Eliphas Levi had upon Albert Pike is so great that it should make any thinking Freemason pause to consider what he is involved in.

Albert Pike has been introduced to you as a Freemason; and Eliphas Levi as an occultist. The facts are: Albert Pike was an occultist and a Freemason; and Eliphas Levi was also an occultist and a Freemason. When seen in this light, the attraction that Albert Pike had for the bizarre writings of Levi is not so hard to understand.

The Dictionary of Satanism says of Levi:

LEVI, ELIPHAS French magician and author of works on the occult. Eliphas Levi, whose real name was Alphonse Louis Constant, claimed to have summoned up the ghost of Apollonius of Tyana in London in 1854. Born in Paris about 1810, he is said to have been reincarnated as Aleister Crowley.

Aleister Crowley was the most influential Satanist of all time and Eliphas Levi had such a profound influence on Crowley, that Crowley actually believed that he was Eliphas Levi reincarnated. The influence of Levi can be seen not only on Freemasonry, but also upon modern Satanism. It can also be said of Crowley that he was an occultist and a Freemason. John Charles Cooper said of Levi:

"He popularized occultism in Europe, and through Aleister Crowley, in America. Levi stressed magic as a means to power and emphasized sex and drug abuse."

sunnyrap

25th April 2010, 03:58

Freeman is the moniker of a man whose father was VERY high up in the Masonic order. Freeman is an internationally-known award-winning TV producer, film maker, radio talk show host and lecturer. Freeman is considered an expert in the fields of the occult, trauma-based mind control, government conspiracy, and ancient civilizations.
Freeman graduated with an Associates of Arts with honors in Interdisciplinary Studies and attended Kansas University, specializing in ancient and environmental architecture.

Freeman has lectured extensively on Templar history, secret signs and symbolism of Freemasonry, the ancient astronaut hypothesis, trauma-based mind control, and government cover-ups.

He has several videos on his website http://freemantv.whynotnews.eu/ dedicated to the story of the Masons.

perfectresonance

25th April 2010, 04:03

I live in a town that is nearly completely run by Masons. If you are not a Mason, your business will likely not survive or thrive. If one is a Mason, he can and may well have gotten away with capital crimes, here. It is well known and well documented that they have abused their acquired power terribly for many decades. This may be entirely to some bad apples spoiling the local barrel, but I've just run into too many instances of this elsewhere to believe that is so. It becomes the old 'power corrupts' and 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' story.

That's not a reflection on Freemasonry in total.

I've sat in a church where they said "Now, this is Steve, he's just joined us, and he's an electrician, from now on, all your electrical business comes to him".

If you don't like the community you're in, get out.

Curative

25th April 2010, 04:22

Welcome in Rimbaud,

IMO, no apologies required, as no bubbles were harmed during the making of your announcement. (not mine anyway)

It is of course potentially possible that; all Illuminati are Masons......But not all Masons (including 31st degree grand masters) are Illuminati. :confused:

Do you (personally) believe in a "secret elite" or "T.P.T.B" behind the faces in government and the N.W.O ?

Ross

25th April 2010, 04:47

That's not a reflection on Freemasonry in total.

I've sat in a church where they said "Now, this is Steve, he's just joined us, and he's an electrician, from now on, all your electrical business comes to him".

If you don't like the community you're in, get out.

Every town in Australia and New Zealand and I suspect the western world, have a Masonic Lodge, even the very small towns, My home town In NZ was totally run by masons, The Mayor, directors of power/water/telecommunications utilities( before all were sold) Dairy farmers Ass, All local councillors, Police cheif and officers, Doctors, right down to the local mechanics...they run the towns, Every town is the same. All the decisions made under the local council(usually voted) are masons. My father, Uncle and great Uncle 33rd, top in NZ before he died, were masons, I understand more than the average Joe, I will say this, most masons believe they are for the good of all and mostly live by this code, however most masons, 95% are not privy to the real 'whats going on' (compartmentalized).

Peace

3optic

25th April 2010, 05:30

Hi Rimbaud. I too have heard the same thing related to Free Masonry. I believe the OTO has higher rankings than 33. Crowley is a famed member of that lodge. I have heard the highest secrets are kept until the 40th degree. Thus the phrase "Life begins at 40."

Most of the current controversy over the Masons and their influence originates, I think from Scottish Rite Free Masonry and it's controversial figurehead Albert Pike. It seems to me there are a number of clubs, think tanks and lettered agencies that have more power and influence (See: Club of Rome, CFR, etc)

Is it possible you are no more privy to what goes on at the very top than an American Catholic Priest or Bishop would be of the highest practices in the Vatican?

This is a clip of an Alan Watt interview where he discusses this discrepancy with the daughter of a 32nd degree Mason. He is just a researcher but has claimed to have corroborated testimony from ex-members who are allegedly unaffiliated. He also likes book learnin'.. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLok74l-a5s

blue777

25th April 2010, 07:48

Every town in Australia and New Zealand and I suspect the western world, have a Masonic Lodge, even the very small towns, My home town In NZ was totally run by masons, The Mayor, directors of power/water/telecommunications utilities( before all were sold) Dairy farmers Ass, All local councillors, Police cheif and officers, Doctors, right down to the local mechanics...they run the towns, Every town is the same. All the decisions made under the local council(usually voted) are masons. My father, Uncle and great Uncle 33rd, top in NZ before he died, were masons, I understand more than the average Joe, I will say this, most masons believe they are for the good of all and mostly live by this code, however most masons, 95% are not privy to the real 'whats going on' (compartmentalized).

Peace

I totally agree with what you say Ross...95% have been demonized...most have not got a clue whatis going on
lol

steve_a

25th April 2010, 13:51

steve_a

25th April 2010, 14:17

Hi cccme,

"so if this organization is not so bad, why all the secrets?"

Are we to arrive at the conclusion that ALL organizations with secrets are evil? How do you come to this conclusion?

Best regards,

Steve

3optic

25th April 2010, 14:40

Hi Rimbaud,

I really don't see why you started this thread. 'Real' Freemasons should stay in the background and not expose themselves. People say that within the Freemason organization there is another refined organization which is even more reserved. How would a Mason be invited into this inner circle if he manifests himself openly in public, telling to all and sundry about his degree status? How will he be trusted with deeper secrets if he can't keep the ones he knows? Jaques de Molay would be turning in his grave to think that the Freemason movement was being openly discussed on an internet forum.
Don't try and prove anything about Freemasonry. Let the people think as they wish. Whilst you're preocupied in what others think, you are taking your eye off the ball.

Best regards,

Steve

He did claim to be an ex Grand Master of the thirty first degree. Further he hasn't actually revealed his identity or any of his "secrets" which I'm guessing are a part of public record at this point. Thirdly, why should anyone care and what is the ball he needs to keep his eye on? The Great Work? Or is he supposed to infiltrate the organization on our behalf?

"so if this organization is not so bad, why all the secrets?"

Are we to arrive at the conclusion that ALL associations with secrets are evil? How do you come to this conclusion?

Good question, Steve. By implication AA may be a Satanic cult.

I think the problem people have though is not the secrecy per se but the membership of public servants to a secret organization that has an agenda that may be reflected by policies. Again, you can reference The CFR who, it seems to me are far more influential these days than the Masons and have a decidedly elitist and anti-democratic vision.

steve_a

25th April 2010, 15:04

Hi 3optic,

Most, if not all masonic secrets are out. Just have a quick browse on the internet and you will find thousands upon thousands of pages.
If there is an inner circle within Freemasonry, we must come to the following conclusions: There are some secrets which are probably the most powerful masonic secrets that exist; these secrets are given to only the most discreet few, so much so that the vast majority of Freemasons don't know that this inner circle exists.
Those conclusions being true, the thread author has just barred himself from being let in to this inner circle, as he is manifesting himself in a public forum as being a Mason. How can the inner circle trust someone who wishes to discuss what he knows - even if it isn't the whole truth - in public? That's why I mention keeping his eye on the ball. If he steps on the ball, basically his future in advancing within the Freemason organization would stop there.

I think the reason why people regard secret societies as evil doers is probably because: They haven't been included; they fear things they don't know; or if people think things that are not how they perceive them, automatically these people must be wrong. As for public servants being part of secret societies, one must find out first if these people were public servants before or after they joined these organizations. I think you will find the tendency of being a public servant before hand. Just as you or I would go out to a good film or restaurant with our work colleagues, so they may have been nvited to meetings by theirs.

Best regards,

Steve

"He did claim to be an ex Grand Master of the thirty first degree. Further he hasn't actually revealed his identity or any of his "secrets" which I'm guessing are a part of public record at this point. Thirdly, why should anyone care and what is the ball he needs to keep his eye on? The Great Work? Or is he supposed to infiltrate the organization on our behalf?"

sunnyrap

26th April 2010, 03:24

Simplistic solutions very often do not apply. And that is especially so in my case, as family obligations have kept me here. I do plan to leave this community in the near future, however. Meanwhile, I simply work with open groups on good causes I believe in, with the thought in mind of replacing the sole secretive, exclusionist groups with, open, community-minded wholistic groups. I take that back--sometimes simplistic solutions DO apply...

3optic

26th April 2010, 04:46

Thanks for the reply Steve. I am still confused as to your point of view. You seem to be suggesting he ruined his opportunity for advancement in an club (he is no longer a member of btw) that has a few esoteric tricks they can teach their senior members. Is this the ball you speak of?

I think the reason why people regard secret societies as evil doers is probably because: They haven't been included; they fear things they don't know; or if people think things that are not how they perceive them, automatically these people must be wrong. As for public servants being part of secret societies, one must find out first if these people were public servants before or after they joined these organizations. I think you will find the tendency of being a public servant before hand. Just as you or I would go out to a good film or restaurant with our work colleagues, so they may have been nvited to meetings by theirs.

I think there is another reason some have low regard for secret societies and that is they tend to be funded by people with ideas about how to run the world with methods most would find inhumane or immoral. Think tanks are often set up with the sole intention of misleading the public and to advance agendas that include wars, eugenics, looting economies and installing dictatorships. All the magic, Satanic hocus pocus is really secondary.

Now if they'd only invite me to one of those Bohemian Grove parties.. :p

steve_a

26th April 2010, 09:15

Hi 3optic,

You're right, he "ruined his opportunity for advancement in a club" because the club is based on guarding secrets and he is wishing to openly discuss such. He is not necessarily an ex member. He is an ex Grand Master, not an ex Mason (although that could be next).

Just as one poster commented about secret societies being evil, merely because they are secret, you seem to be assuming that there is a tendency for secret societies to be funded by evil do'ers who want to change the world. Why do you think this way? Your assumption is based on what? Was Pol Pot a Mason? Idi Amin Dada was a Luciferian? Mao Tse Tung was a Skull & Bones?

Secret think tanks have nothing to do with secret societies. Secret think tanks are government backed and have nothing to do with societies as such we are discussing in this thread. So, for example, the Iron Mountain people were not part of a secret sect, but were a cross section of people who were asked to think in a certain way in a government backed program. Also this: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137157 backed by the "Washington Institute".

Of course we can discuss who is behind the governments. They normally are people behind big business and corporations who unfortunately think that they must expand to be successful at any cost. If you want to know who is trying to change the world, follow the money.

As the Tears for Fears song goes, "Everybody wants to rule the world".

Best regards,

Steve

Snowbird

26th April 2010, 18:24

Rimbaud states that he is a former Grand Master of the 31st degree. He's still a Mason and I seriously doubt that he will reveal anything that will break that association.

There have been several 90 degree Masons that I have come across lately on the internet. If I'm not mistaken, the 33rd degree is the beginning of the real secrecy.

3optic

27th April 2010, 07:53

Hey Steve,

You seem to have pointed out a flaw in my thinking. My feeling has been that the CFR falls into a category that can be labeled either as both a Secret Society of sorts (it's membership is not to my knowledge published) and a think tank. I then proceded to lump them all together.

I do not think all secret societies are funded by evil doers. I was reacting to your comments which still leave me a bit confused. Let's see if I follow this:

He: "Hey guys I'm an ex Grand Master. Wanna know some cool stuff?"

You: " Why would we be interested in information from anyone who would out secrets he was sworn to uphold?."

Is this an accurate dramatization of your position?

Interesting that we have yet to hear from Rimbaud since his original post and yet here we are, you and I taking up his offer to have a debate.. with one another. Is this a Hegelian Dialectic? Have we been set upon each other? Order out of chaos?

3optic

27th April 2010, 08:11

Hey Steve,
My feeling has been that the CFR falls into a category that can be labeled either as both a Secret Society of sorts (it's membership is not to my knowledge published) [/I]

Er correction: The CFR has no "members" as such. It has a panel of "experts" (Gotta love that word) who are listed on it's site and have been outed on numerous whistle blowing sites. How much worse could I have screwed that up?

I will in future try to differentiate between these collectives.

Note before I abashedly slink off into the night: Mao and Pol have been linked to Anglo-American conspiracies quite credibly. Pol Pot was heavily funded by the CIA. Masonic membership certainly isn't out of the question..

steve_a

27th April 2010, 09:30

SpoonMan

27th April 2010, 11:32

Who is to believe anything this guy or anyone else on the internet or in real life says. Maybe he never was a Mason, or maybe he still is. He has not really said anything anyways.

Frater

27th April 2010, 17:53

Cari Rimbaud,

I think you guys should distribute the funds to "the animals" which i interpret to mean ecology as to do so would help everything, including the children and their children.

Freemasons do get a bad rap, they have noble ideals in general and don't really add up to a true spiritual Order, more of a club with a lot of grand titles and other ego inflating things, silly. Though of course The Scottish Rite might be performed by adepts of spiritually minded groups. Though I am not a mason, I am in various secret societies that many masons of higher ideal might also find very appealing.

Best Wishes in LVX,

Frater

Paul J Salmon

27th April 2010, 18:30

Interesting what Rimbaud has said and even though I'm not "on the square" myself, would agree with him judging from my own experiences. The only thing that I would say is that if you are invited to join and go through the initiation process, you will be asked if you believe in a "Supreme Being", not God as such. This is why Freemasonry has such a diverse membership around the globe. If you go above the first 3 degrees, Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason, you will then have to be a Christian. For example if you join Rose Croix like CCCME did, then you have to believe in the Trinity, which is the unity of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. This means that all 3 entities come together to form one God. This is where I would say things start to get more interesting. We can then move onto the Knights Templar next and we all know what they did years ago!

Anyway, I must go now but will keep my eye on this thread as it concerns a subject that interests me greatly.

Peace All!

SteveX

27th April 2010, 19:25

Oliver

27th April 2010, 20:20

Hello Rimbaud,

Did you choose your name because of the genius french Poet Arthur Rimbaud? [ For those who don`t know about him, when he was only 17, he wrote one of the most inspiring poetic books of all times - "Illuminations"- and it was all he wrote. It is enough..]

Whatever. Somehow, I do not believe you are 31 degree Grand Master. I can`t sense any spirituality in your words, but let us say you are.

To speak the truth, the masonry generally is loosing its spiritual energy, it is more and more political and business orientated. The masonry is demystified all over the world and that way it is loosing its power that was coming from the secrecy. The secrecy itself is giving some power.

Few years ago, when the Grand Lodge of my country was organized, it become public what kind of personalities were included - and it was great fun and laugh.

Also, most of the masonic lodges became nests of secret services and intelligence - lower political merchantilism.

They are not in the big game anymore. They are (geo)political tools and most of the members do not realize this, but they think they are very important since they are masons. Well, OK..what to say.

I agree there are many examples in history when masonry acted some positive role, but the negative aura is generally around it. I found them [the real Great Masters] holders of one tinny part of the big secret mosaic in this world... and that is all.

But, I am also inviting you, brother Rimbaud [this is without irony], to enlighten us, to teach us things we don`t know about masonry. Since masonry is claiming it is working for the good of the humanity - feel free to do it here, we will be grateful to you.

Greetings

Paul J Salmon

27th April 2010, 21:44

Nice one Oliver!

HORIZONS

27th April 2010, 22:10

Of course we can discuss who is behind the governments. They normally are people behind big business and corporations who unfortunately think that they must expand to be successful at any cost. If you want to know who is trying to change the world, follow the money.

As the Tears for Fears song goes, "Everybody wants to rule the world".

Best regards,

Steve

I'd say you are right on the money! :laugh:

Hiram

27th April 2010, 22:54

The Masons, comprising a group of human beings are endowed with the same flaws as all other groups of human beings that have been organized in public or in private.

The Craft, when practiced in it's pure form reveals much about the universe. 1 and 2 is 3. Yet like all other organizations, when you have your fingers in many honey-pots.....it is inevitable that mischief will ensue. I don't really wish to debate whether there are Masons who do bad things...or whether there are Masons who did good things. That's not really the point.

No, The point is whether the overall goals and aims of the the society or organization, are exclusive, or inclusive? Are all beings regarded equally or are there some who by "divine" right rise above? If it has been established within a group that a certain members can and will be held in higher regard than others..well then you have a problem. Why is that a problem? Well if the group held no influence whatsoever, had no members in positions of power, well then this attitude would mean very little..and you wouldn't have a problem at all.

Regrettably, the Masons and many other groups have members in many places. Is it a problem that fundamentalist Christians wield influence in policy making groups? Well possibly its a problem if your not a fundamentalist Christian. Is it a problem that Muslims wield influence in Many Governments? Jews? Mother's Against Drunk Driving? These groups normally keep each other in check through competing agendas.

But what happens when one group, through sheer numbers, begins to wield a hefty influence? Perhaps even an overwhelming influence? Again this might be a problem if you don't espouse the views of that dominant group. It could possibly mean alot of trouble for you if you happen to be a member of a group that they deem as "sub-par".

So when indeed you DO have a public-policy making group...and say 9 out of 10 members of that group happen to share a similar philosophy, attend the same club, espouse the same views, and think they know whats best for the masses (as most humans naturally do!) it seems to me that it would be that groups common agenda...which would be pushed forward, rather than the diversified agenda of the masses. Why, as a member of that secretive group, you may even end up believing that because the masses have agendas so diversified and schizophrenic, that they truly don't even know whats good for them. The fact that they can't get it together is a sign of that. In fact, you begin to pity the masses. They know not what they do! What those people need is direction, and leadership, and a coherent plan. Besides, the writings of your group said this exact scenario would present itself, and when it did, one of your group would step forward and guide these people to the light. This is natural...this is divine...the only order is here with your group....they are nothing but disorder, they are the profane!

Then again, perhaps they just play bridge and eat graham crackers?

I think its intelligent to be wary of groups such as this. I don't think any amount of minimizing can obscure the danger or risk of such groups. Indeed history favors the cautious and the vigilant. In the end it's a very human issue.

Rimbaud

28th April 2010, 01:59

Samarkis

28th April 2010, 02:14

In Light!

I have several friends that are Freemasons and I am close with family of Freemasons.....I have respect for groups that do Charities and help good people do more good.....

I would like to point out several facts that have to do with Freemasons....I am no expert by any means however I watch actions and read things from that:
There were MANY Freemasons that were killed by Hitler (over 20,000)....Freemasons were our founding fathers of the constitution, Many inventors,engineers and master archetects are Freemasons......They are supposed to be a group of people that help good have power behind it......

I just want to point out, in all groups, that there are the heavy givers and shakers,then you have the ones that lean in when asked and then there are always laggers and then, depending how much power is involved, you have infiltraters.....I say this in all earnest....One must ALWAYS use discernment at all times and especially in making weighty decisions.....One must always be cautious not to cross lines of integrity.....even in small scale as it always snowballs.....One must always be dilligent and stay away from even a whisper of scandel......

I say this in honor of all righteous people.....

Rimbaud

28th April 2010, 02:15

Rimbaud

28th April 2010, 02:23

Samarkis,

Some folk will always use a position of authority to impose their will..in my position in Freemasonry I never saw it happen despite being pretty senior within the system. If I had then I'd have left like a shot. There are; however, mysteries which I can't divulge, which would blow your socks off!

Rimbaud

28th April 2010, 02:36

Crowely was a Satanist I am not...Freemasonry has nothing to do with Satanism despite what you've read

Rimbaud.:cool:

Samarkis

28th April 2010, 04:47

Rimbaud........

My bringing to the discussion about Freemasons is that people should not fear every group.....but to discern the ethics of all individuals....to discern is not to interogate....it is to be observant of the others actions......ie-how does one treat peers,does one speak & walk in respect of others,etc.
Do they add to the good of others....I ask that people not pre-judge another because of which group they may be a part of........be watchful perhaps...but not pre-judge......

In Light!

3optic

28th April 2010, 07:22

Hi 3optic,

The reasoning behind my reaction to Rimbaud was the fact that I can't grasp the reasoning behind someone who has advanced so much in an organization which is based on secrets wanting to discuss them. Why would he want to do this? If he is wanting to defend his participation in the Freemason order before this forum, I would have thought the best way to do that would be to say nothing. After all, if what he is doing is not bad then there is nothing to say. As you pointed out, we don't know the real identity of Rimbaud and people are out there who will still think that there is an evil power behind freemasonry independent if he tells everybody he makes up a part or not. I'm not trying to question what he is doing behind closed doors, but why he feels the need to discuss it.

Most people who wish to start to discuss this sort of topic in internet forums are not freemasons, but have recently read a good book or have been stimulated by the film The Davinci Code.

Once again you seem to lump together CIA and Masons. I'm sure there are masons in the high ranks of government and indeed within the CIA, but are these people rubbing shoulders really with the likes of Pol Pot and his ilk? I'm sure that Pol Pot being a Mason is not 'out of the question', but then neither is he being an extra terrestrial. Anything's possible I suppose.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve, it is well known that the CIA is closely linked to Masonry and most, perhaps all are Free Masons. Does this mean there is a global conspiracy with the Masons at the center? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". Many Police officers are also Masons. Ah the banality of evil. I was making these remarks with some timidity and you seem to have pounced unnecessarily. Now I feel compelled to refute.

Saying Pol Pot's membership is the equivalent to saying he's an extra terrestrial is not entirely comparable :P. Stalin and some say Lenin were a Masons. The whole communist "movement" was funded from the Top (read here International Bankers if you want). I'm not "lumping" CIA with Masons. There is however an overlap in their memberships so this musing on my part is not so outlandish.

Does it really matter if mass murdering communist leaders through history have been Free Masons? Not a whole lot I think.

Thanks for explaining your position. I think I understand now. You may have misconstrued my post and I was reacting to your role as apologist. We have taken 2 sides of a discussion neither of us, I think are fully committed to. I am not one of these "the Masons are behind everything" people and I'm guessing you are not a supporter of murderous secret orders. I may have even taken your side of this discussion in another set of circumstances.

Take care,

-3

3optic

28th April 2010, 07:32

Crowely was a Satanist I am not...Freemasonry has nothing to do with Satanism despite what you've read

Rimbaud.:cool:

"Nothing to do" covers a lot of ground. No one is smart enough to be 100% wrong as they say. Familiar with Luciferian aspects of Free Masonry?

I'm sensing there is nothing to see here..

stardustaquarion

28th April 2010, 13:52

With all due respect, I see Freemasonery and any other form of organized lodge, religion, cults etc as limiting and a form of control dogma. We ourselves have the power within ourselves to free our minds and hearts and to align with whatever our path is. Belonging to anything is just follow the leader and giving our power away to something in exchange for being accepted

To this date, freemasonery and all the others have not assisted humanity towards empowerment and the ills of society remains the same if no worse which leads me to conclude that if it did not worked before and hundreds of years have gone by, maybe those credos are faulty somewhere

Cheers

blue777

28th April 2010, 13:59

Crowely was a Satanist I am not...Freemasonry has nothing to do with Satanism despite what you've read

Rimbaud.:cool:

I agree with this, anyway satan is only the negative thought patterns we have......

concerned square

28th April 2010, 16:28

..........

Celine

28th April 2010, 16:50

SteveX

28th April 2010, 18:18

Rimbaud

Three distant relatives of mine were masons. Two were big cheeses at Great Queen Street. Another wasn't so much a big cheese as being :hail: the cheese.

MargueriteBee

28th April 2010, 18:55

Rimbaud, why is it that women are excluded?

My dad is a 32 degree mason and wanted me to join Eastern Star. A co-worker joined Eastern Star and told me it was just an expensive social club, boring. Something to keep the women busy.

In my town also all city and county jobs of any importance are held by masons and there are rumors they are all involved in child porn and slavery but nothing will be done because the person who needs to be arrested is the sheriff and a 33rd degree mason. I see masonry as a shield for crooks to hide behind.

Oh, and my dad would NEVER speak about masonry, period.

Hiram

28th April 2010, 23:00

Hiram,
You honor me and credit my brothers way beyond our due..we're not exclusive as we actively seek members. In actual fact,90% of folk approached, refuse the invitation; my brother included! The mysteries of the Rose Croix are beautiful..but you can google that and see exactly what goes on..it's a scool of study not of secrecy.

Rimbaud

Thanks for the reply Rimbaud.

Yes, I understand much. A science of the human soul...a path toward illumination...toward the perfection of man beyond what he suspected possible. Continuing the "great work" of the "Grand Architect". Caring for your fellow travelers All these things are true...when practiced in the light. When practiced in darkness there is trouble afoot.

You perhaps mischaracterize this concept of "exclusivity". Its a perception of the relationship between the masses of humanity and yourself. The fact that you actively recruit members doesn't prove anything. The US Navy encourages everyone to try out for the "Seals" with full knowledge that only a small fraction of soldiers have the tools to make it. Are the SEALS then exclusive? Doesn't seem like it, but appearances are deceptive. All the encouragement still serves the organization, regardless.

This used to be the government of the world in the old days....then, in order to survive the machine that was created in order to destroy it, the brotherhood had to hide. Survive they did though, and their disciplines survived as well. They leaned a lesson about acting in the open, and vowed that the future security of the work relied upon hiding in the open. The path still exists, though they mistakenly believe that they hold the keys, when it is in anyone's power to find this path. Anyone with enough discipline--and perhaps guidance.

I don't imply that there is anything malevolent about you whatsoever Rimbaud. But to to proceed under the notion that the organization you belong to is good and positive, because everyone you happen to know in that organization appears to be good and positive, betrays a certain naivete.

I'm sure your a jolly ruddy-faced sort though:)

denis m

28th April 2010, 23:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR5NNo1AB9g anyone interested in freemasonry sould watch this.blew my mind

blue777

29th April 2010, 08:34

Rimbaud

Three distant relatives of mine were masons. Two were big cheeses at Great Queen Street. Another wasn't so much a big cheese as being :hail: the cheese.

hello steve.....98% of freemasons are decent blokes...the 2% who are neg, shouldn't call themselves masons.....everyone has been demonized

blue777

29th April 2010, 08:37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR5NNo1AB9g anyone interested in freemasonry sould watch this.blew my mind

therefore organization is big..and something will happen in 2012..is it linked to E.T. ?
lol

albert.sinclair

29th April 2010, 10:27

My Grandfather was accepted into Freemasonry in the 1940's and was originally invited by a multi millionaire at the time.

They went through a ceremony to accept him in and he attended many meetings, They regularly had evenings once a month called 'Ladies Evenings'.

At these nights the men would have to buy each women of that night a present, this meant buying many gifts for one evening.

The breaking point for him was when his Millionaire friend accompanied my grandfather to the next 'night' but took with him 20 gold watches as his gift for the ladies on that particular night,

My grandfather told me that was the turning point as he could see that he was not in the same league financially, His wealthy friend always pleaded with him to stay and to become more involved however my grandfather saw that he was not in the same class and would always would be.

My Grandfather eventually left the Freemasons as it got too much for him to keep up as he was only good old working class.

In the end when leaving the Freemasons he then went onto to join the Druid Society and adopted a lodge nearer to his home town.

Its very INTERESTING talking with our old relatives, im lucky that my grandfather of 90 is still alive to tell me all these stories. believe me i could go on for hours ;)

Hope this add a little further insight...

One

29th April 2010, 23:40

The problem for me is that in a democracy (or a pretend one) we have a hierarchical secret organisation recruiting people with money and power. I think it is fairly obvious that such an organisation setup in the way it is could potentialy wield an unlimited amount of influence & corruption. I can't believe the concept is defended because they do a bit of charity. :confused:

SpoonMan

30th April 2010, 00:26

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 02:18

Hi I've tried to reply to this thread three times this evening but have been maxed out...sorry I'll try again tomorrow if allowed!.

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 02:35

Hi ...I've been trying to post..try again tomorrow
XXX

Lucid Jia

30th April 2010, 04:25

I read this on ATS a few weeks back which was interesting....

So this is my first official thread that I am posting to this website, and I can think of a better topic to post about than something I had just learned these past couple days...

I am currently in the Marche Region of Italy, in the city of Ancona. Ancona is surrounded by other smaller sized city's that dates back to Ancient Rome and beyond, this place is full of history, not to mention occult symbolism.

I am currently here on a business trip for a jewelry show here in this region. I had only recently join the ranks of the Freemasons in a lodge in Chicago, IL. (That's where I live).

During my stay here I was invited to go with a few interpreters to a Scottish Rite Lounge in a small town near Ancona. They asked me because they had needed more interpreters and I had mentioned that I had recently been initiated. So obviously they thought I would get a kick out of this trip.

On the way there they warned me that Masonry on this side of the globe is nothing compared to what we do in the United States. I was told flat out that these are very bad, very powerful people.

The first thing I learned shortly after walking through the doors is that the true Freemasons are, in fact the Knights Templar! This meeting was a meeting of the Templar Knights under the guise of the Freemasons.

I couldn't believe what I had just heard. If I had even mentioned that anywhere in America I would be called crazy. I had been researching the Masons for years, I had learned about many good and bad things. After hearing from fellows brothers of other lodges I was completely convinced that these stories were completely bogus.

Now as far as the secrets go, every high up mason holds a small piece of the secrets. There religion is, in fact, that of the Pagan Mystery Schools. They literally told me the hold the secrets of the ages.

I am not saying this as a conspiracy theorist, I witnessed this first hand!

I was so nervous walking around this place, I provided absolutely no help to the other interpreters.

Now if you think that is bad, I only told you what I assumed I was allowed to share. 99% of what I was told about I had to swear that it would not leave the building.
Now I know what you are thinking, why would they openly tell me all this information. Well, the truth is much of it wasn't told directly to me until I became acquainted with a renowned Italian Prefect (aka Politician) Most of what I heard was being told to me and the translators to the American Delegates.

Now this is difficult for me but I can not mention who was there or what we talked about. But as far as the American Delegates that were there, that I stood right next to, I couldn't believe who I was seeing. The most appropriate thing I can mention is that everyone I saw, you definitely know exactly who they are... No Barack Obama was not there

Now this was literally 3 days ago. I am typing this from my hotel room. I paid 20 euro to have this wifi connection.

I am writing this because I want you people to know that there is something bigger that we can even imagine behind the scenes of the Freemason. They are everything and everywhere. And those conspiracies you may have come across, most true

To the Masons on this site and through out the United States, don't chew me out because you are a Mason and you believe this is bull... This is real, I didn't believe it before and I sure as hell don't want to believe it now.

The Masons are the continuation of the Knights Templar. Do not argue with me there because the meeting was called "Meeting of the Knights Templar"
I learned there history in nearly 48 hours.

This is how fate works people. I had no intention of going to any Freemason meeting when I was out here. I am a Jeweler, I am buying Jewelry out here! I don't believe in coincidence. God put me in that situation because he wanted me to know.

If you don't believe me that is perfectly fine. But, these past few days has completely changed my life
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread563708/pg1

Do you think this is accurate Rimbaud?

RedeZra

30th April 2010, 04:54

The first thing I learned shortly after walking through the doors is that the true Freemasons are, in fact the Knights Templar! This meeting was a meeting of the Templar Knights under the guise of the Freemasons.

interesting

there is a link between the Knights Templar and the masonry of the Gothic cathedrals

the Knights Templar was dissolved as an Order by the Pope in 1312

after many of them had been tortured and burnt at the stake

most of their assests were handed over to the Knights Hospitaller

better known as the Knights of Malta

which as an Order organized itself in geographic-cultural Langues

maybe that's why some Masonic Lodges work in a foreign language

SteveX

30th April 2010, 08:51

Hi I've tried to reply to this thread three times this evening but have been maxed out...sorry I'll try again tomorrow if allowed!.

There has been a regular problem with connection at this site. I have stopped using the quick reply because of time outs. I have found that RIGHT clicking and OPEN IN ANOTHER WINDOW is best when clicking REPLY and especially REPLY WITH QUOTE. I know it sound crazy but it really works for me and never times out when you click SUBMIT. To clarify...just open in another window, type your stuff and submit. If you need to edit the post after submitting it's the same procedure.

Edit...You write like a Brit. Are you an expat?

K626

30th April 2010, 08:59

Why are the Masons the Knights Templar? I don't get it and I've read the long post. My understanding is that what's left of the Templars is hereditary titles and smallish grouups in France and England and one or two banking magnates in Monaco.

Peace

K

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 22:35

Hi Lucid jia,

If I can reply loosely as I'm trying to catch up on queries. From my experience Contintal Europeans are even more Conservative than the Brits as to who enters the Master Craft. I know that whilst we're open about what we do I'd be amazed if a freemasonry lodge would simply invite you in as a spectator.

I hope that you don't take this in the wrong way and I don't deny your experience, it's just that I find it something that I have never seen. To answer another question I am a member of Malta..but this is purely an honorific title.

The Lord God is my master, the first question I was asked as a Mason..I merely don't believe in Islam or Christianity. Satan doesn't come into the mix, I believe in a simple faith and it has little to do with mainstream or doorstep faith.

I send you the love from the core of my heart..which is the only way that I can send my love

RIMBAUD

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 23:07

Hi Friends,

I'll try to answer questions one by one if anyone is still interested. i work 17 hours a day sometimes so comments may be a bit erratic. from time to time.. I leave you with one thought. Should I invite Bill into my Lodge to see what all the fuss is about? I'm sure that he's been invited many times before but probably refused. I belong to one of the oldest existing Lodges..I have been allowed to invite Bill Ryan as I believe he could become a fantastic Fellow Craft FreeMason.

Only then will he see that not only do we provide charity worldwide, but the Masons donate 70% to a single Countrys charity budget. I was sworn to protect my brothers whatever the cost. Black, Brown..Multiracial or whatever.. The biggest secret that I want to share with all of you... and it's our biggest secret...is that we supply charity. I'm so sorry that it's not more exiting for alot of you. From my point of view, being a Mason for me means giving something back to the community. I'm not a Roth or a damned lizzard, I just do what I can with whatever I've got.

God bless.

Rimbaud.

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 23:31

I'm sorry to sound so emotional..I'm actually crying right now..I'm so used to being described as a member of the Illuminati and it's just not me..maybe it's some Satanic sect that I simply don't know of but the Lodges that I know simply provide charity. We're an easy target you know, because our ceremonies are a bit odd in modern day parlance..but it's no more odd than any ancient ceremony including High Church. When the time comes, I will invite my son into the lodge that my family has been in for nearly 500 years..he can join that one first followed by my lodge. Knowing what a free spirit that he is he will reject them..that is his choice!

We're here to protect values that we all want. I am not Satanic as Kerry would have you believe? Can I have your views please?

Cheers

Rimbaud

Vidya Moksha

30th April 2010, 23:40

I know many masons and they do charity work and get together and help each other thats it. No hidden satanic rights, most are also 'practicing' christian.

I think the point is,it is being suggested that these people are being duped, and the high level core of the organization is not at all like its outer image. And the high level core has an agenda that would make its member shiver. Its the same with esoteric and exoteric religions, completely different views of the world.

Rimbaud

30th April 2010, 23:54

Marjorion,
Please excuse my short answer:-
1) Women have their own lodges..I have no input into them other than knowing that they're very extensive.
2) I believe in God..I also believe that the Diety is totally sexless and is pure Spirit.

Hope this helps you to equate my feelings.

Peace Margorion

Love

Rimbaud

Hiram

1st May 2010, 00:06

Thanks for your comments Rimbaud,

Thats very nice that you are displaying alot of emotion et cetera. Its apparent that you and your friends do "Charity" maybe even tons of charity for that matter.

Don't you think that your displaying alot of naivete though, going on and on about how your experience has been one of good--so the organization is good?

Can you imagine a Catholic going on and on about how all of their catholic friends are fantastic---so the catholic Church must be fantastic? Like I said, Its a nice sentiment, and I'm sure your just the nicest chap in the world...but so what if people label your group Illuminatus? You don't have to be a member, and furthermore your groups secrecy has brought the reputation on itself. Be honest, you don't really even know what the Masons are really up to do you? You know what those in charge want you to know.

I'm sorry to be direct, as I said I can tell you a nice fellow. Dab you tears mate, Buck Up. Keep up the good charity work!

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 00:10

Dar Vidya,

I don't feel what you say is correct; If it were so then what I've been doing all these years would make my life totally meaningless. I joined the Freemasons to help my fellow man with no other agenda.

I hate hearing that I'm Evil when all I ever tried to do was a bit of good here and there. I help families when they're too poor to pay their bills and I don't care where they come from. The tale of the " Good Samaritan" always makes me weep...so I always try to emulate him. I hate crying for good causes, because I think if God sees me doing it..it lessons what I'm trying to achieve.

Please don't judge me before you know me Vidya..I'm trying my best

Rimbaud

Hiram

1st May 2010, 00:18

I don't think anyone is judging you Rimbaud. We don't even know you aside from what you've shared...and thats been very little. Your posts are very welcome here.

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 00:26

Ok Hiram I've bucked up and wiped my tears away,I can only suggest that when invited you join a Lodge and do some work like the rest of us do. Jewish Lodges do exist and we do have links with them along with Islamic and all other faiths. The first thing that we learn is acceptance.

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 00:30

Hiram,
My problem is that I work 17 hours a day..I only spend a couple of hours per night on the PC before i flake out.
God bless my friend..sweet dreams.

Rimbaud.

Vidya Moksha

1st May 2010, 00:33

Dar Vidya,

I don't feel what you say is correct; If it were so then what I've been doing all these years would make my life totally meaningless. I joined the Freemasons to help my fellow man with no other agenda.

Please don't judge me before you know me Vidya..I'm trying my best

Rimbaud
im certainly not judging you, Im just trying to clarify what I think people think.

Whether you have been duped who can say? however, we can never be on the wrong path in life, even if it feels like it sometimes.

I would say that most of the masons I know personally are not altruistic, they joined to gain some benefit for themselves. Other people get a kick out of helping people, so they do it to 'help themelves' get this kick. I dont know you at all, so please dont personalise these latter comments, Im talking of people in my own experience.

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 00:59

Vidya,
It's difficult for me not to respond personally when attacked in such a personal manner. The first comment you made suggests that you views are what all others share on this site..well that's not my experience in my mail box thanks.

You continue that I was duped into the freemasons..well the Nazis had a similar idea along with an entire race of people who were exterminated in the gas chambers..we were accused then just as now.
I was not duped..I upheld my family tradition of justice and freedom for all.

You suggest that I do it for self gain?...I assure you I do it for completely the contrary reasons that you can possibly suppose.

I wonder what your agenda is actually

Rimbaud

Vidya Moksha

1st May 2010, 01:43

ok we will leave it there. Either i wasnt clear enough or you have completely misunderstood me or a bit of both. I NEVER said you were duped.. but you might have been, you might not have been, what i said was who can tell? I never said you were a mason for personal gain, i said people i knew that were masones were in it for themselves.

i would never claim to represent anybody other than myself, certainly not this entire site.

I have no agenda. I thought my original post was actually supportive of your situation, but i see that this was not clear.

The zen buddhists say you cannot give an insult, only receive one. If you are happy in what you do, then what more is there? if you can sleep at night (after so many hours working it should be easy lol) then why worry what other people think.

"an entire race of people exterminated" ? is this just an emotive over-reaction, i have no idea what you are referring to (historically), and it certainly seems a bit extreme in response to my mails.

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 02:13

Vidya,
I'd like to conclude this part of of the conversation also; but I'm afraid that I can't conceed that the Hollocaust forms a part of an emotive over reaction. I am not trying to make any point at all; I'm just trying to explain my situation. you didn't insult me, but you did attack me.

Rimbaud

Vidya Moksha

1st May 2010, 02:22

Vidya,
I'd like to conclude this part of of the conversation also; but I'm afraid that I can't conceed that the Hollocaust forms a part of an emotive over reaction.

:jaw:

go elsewhere for holocaust posts, im not prepared to discuss with you here. You would misunderstand. Your post is factually incorrect, no entire race was exterminated.

fact: the Russians suffered the most in terms of loss of life in the war. fact: it was gruesome on many many many levels.

to bring that in here as a repost to my post???????
goodbye.

Rimbaud

1st May 2010, 02:42

Vidya,
Your anger condemns you and confirms that you are far far away from the Zen like state you espouse. I'm sad that you can ignore the Hollocaust, while the rest of the World mourns. I didn't in fact even mention Russia..but while we're on the subject..what about the Pogroms?

Rimbaud

Vidya Moksha

1st May 2010, 03:53

this is becoming quite sublime... what anger? i feel no anger and expressed no anger.

I started out with some sympathy for your case. I have lost that now. You interpret everything from a narrow mind set, and your replies say everything about you and nothing about me. wow. What has the holocaust got to do with the masons? or my reply to you?

i have read many stories about people disagreeing with someone, then been labelled a holocaust denier, then anti semitic then being prosecuted under the hate crimes.. is that your next step?

you are so far from understanding my posts I am not sure why I bother... empathy? not here.

I never said i followed zen buddhism, where do you get these ideas from? i was mearly quoting something, but you misunderstood that too..If I quoted Lenin would I be a communist? a hindhu if I quoted gandhi?

does misunderstanding follow you around? mmm maybe i will revist my ideas along those lines too....who are you? you introduced the concept of agenda. Hmmm, do you have a job here? actually, no... dont bother, i really dont care..

sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not upset, angry or even offended. Bemused would be a good description of my feelings to this thread. But I wont carry that notion anywhere else today.

btw You say Crowley was a satanist. Tell me the books of his you have read yourself which leads you to that conclusion please. I would love to re-read them as I obviously missed the point of his works. Actually, I know you havent read any of his work, as you would never post such rubbish of you had. Do you believe all propaganda? Holocasust? crowley? what else have i missed? [and to pre-empt stuopid responses, I am saying what was reported of the holocaust has an agenda behind it and is very misleading of the truth, i am saying no more than that, so dont label me as you like to].

actually, maybe i am a holocaust denying, satanic worhsipping, anti semitic zen buddhist.. mmmm.. a new label. I love labels lol, and that might be a new cult i can set up? what to you think? (hope irony isnt over your head too)

Ross

1st May 2010, 04:12

Hi Rimbaud,

Firstly thank you for your contribution, I have a fair amount of insight into the freemasons as my family also were masons, I declined the 'offer' to become one for my own personal reasons.

Vidya M has not attacked you, I have read above and have to agree that you have somewhat mis-quoted VM.
Freemasonary will always be a touchy topic as you are well aware but please dont let anyone, or your interpretation of others views upset you. You are doing a great service to others from what you have stated and that is what is important for you. Be at peace that your own intentions are sincere with your 'brotherhood' that is all that matters...

Peace to you.

Ross

One

1st May 2010, 09:03

Lucid Jia

1st May 2010, 09:33

Obviously a secret organisation needs to do it's marketing. A bit of charity work does the trick it seems. However, it wouldn't be a good idea to tell those doing the good work what the real agenda is though would it?

I agreed with VM's points (thank you for raising them). I might be persuaded otherwise with some logic.

I'd imagine most people join the masons for self serving reasons. You's possibly better off joining a charity if you want to help others. There is a much better chance that the people running the show are genuine.

I agree one, why do you have join a secret society to help other people?

Also I did not sense any anger in Vidyas comments and he raised some very valid points. I am baffled how you linked his comments to the holocaust and seems to be blown way out of proportion.

Namaste, Jia.

Agape

2nd May 2010, 01:36

Just a little note for those who really wish to understand ...

What is the original meaning of 'masonic society' or 'secret brotherhood of knowledge keepers' ?

Basically a 'think'tank' , as is the colloquial expression nowadays , of people who are wise and intelligent and concerned about truth, about serious problems the wider society has to confront but can't always solve, the 'elders of the tribe', though that is also just provisional meaning.

Look very back to the history of mankind and its mysteries ..some are naturally aware that such a history exists, others not so, but what i mean to say ..

These 'holders of knowledge' , provisional meaning again, were people similar to who we are here, in essence, those more aware of truth and willing to discuss it among themselves , as the 'outer' society refused to see, to rationalize, to accept lots of facts, because either you want to hear it or not,
but most people in most times were happy enough not to think but to follow , and you can't blame those who think for doing so , and those who can't and refuse to think and do not have enough intelligence can't be forced to it,
but that's a side note ...

There's no truth in these 'elders' being just men, or just women, different times and cultures gave birth to different set up of dominance ,
and obviously, there were many kinds of such 'secret orders', of all genders and ages,

the times have changed and turned over so many times that what once was up-to-date and real is not true anymore ..

I'll give you an example ...

Project Camelot is the closest example I can give you but consider it just an example because there are numerous other well meaning people on earth now , various locations, hopefully , discussing similar issues and they all can call themselves somehow, be it project or society,
they have some standards to base themselves upon, hopefully too.
What is being discussed ? Free information..whatever we are aware of and can bring in, till there's free thought and debate, the Society is legit and alive ,
Are secrets being discussed ? Yes they are, both light and dark. The purpose of these are education, information exchange and 'think'tank' as i've said at the beginning,
with hope that some of the problems can either be solved or at least, can move forwards .

Notice there's no aspiration for money making allowed or attempts to take over the power structures but of course, there's serious concern about both, as in every society, from tribe to nation, there are material concerns , deceptions, power mongeres etc etc.

Now, imagine, hypothetically, what will become of Project Camelot after one thousand years, again, it's an exercise so take me with reserve please..

Lets imagine that many or most of the problems and secrets discussed here , in the form we see them now will be overcome and of course, there will be 'new age', 'new schools of thought', new problems and new paradigms, the ones we can't quite see or predict now.

But, there's a continuity, a connection..some of todays prediction will come true, many won't .
Truth once again will require free thought...

And then, that's the funny point, lets imagine that some will continue to remember 'the days of old' and call themselves 'Knights of Camelot' ( or however..) and consider themselves the lineage of ancient secret holders ..
the meaning might well degenerate through time because they will initiate their children to the line of problems discussed here..so there will come 'pure bloodlines'
and many will try to make profit of the formerly self-less service and others who think they can be the top leaders , they will be ones with world powers and so and so on..
And they may well have few good legends about what were /are the 'Secrets of Camelot' .

Now come back and see the point ...

We are as everyone else basically, people with mistakes. We may know more of certain aspects of truth and society than many of our siblings , we tend to be free thinkers and well behaved people but none of it can stand the weight of dogma and test of time.
Change is inevitable to all living ..and every understanding and means to express it are relative to its times .

What remained of the 'Orders ' of old that once stood against or aside of power structures and were meant to be free thinkers brotherhood ? Once timely and useful,
now only memories, legend, history, names remained . Doing anything in the name of something else..won't solve presence or help the issue .

Before there were hoods over head, nowadays it's avatars :popcorn:

There's always meaning to things...and then the meaning is easily compromised and misused by some, 'commercialised' etc.

Rise your awareness and knowledge, simultaneously and don't feed hatred and prejudice. It's not necessarilly our forefathers who were correct, not all of them are correct, anyway..

It's us who may be able to repair the state of matters and realize the big human ..and hopefully even cosmic brotherhood.

It's not easy to do...so i'm sure, someone else will have fun on my place after thousand years ..

In the name of Original Camelot

and we will be forgiven..

:bathbaby:
A

One

2nd May 2010, 21:00

The supposed hierarchical structure of these organisation doesn't suggest to me that they were think tanks. Also it seemed to me that it was normally capitalists with a bit of power and influence that were invited to join up. I suggest that to run successful think tanks you might be better off allowing a wider spectrum of the population to join in with all the thinking. Otherwise the danger is that you end up with a load of "thinking" about how to herd the cattle about to your best advantage.

Rimbaud

3rd May 2010, 22:23

Firstly in response to Ross S.Mod as an arbitrater I fully accept your judgement and thankyou for being a calming influence. Secondly sincere apologies to Vidya as I reacted in the wrong way..totally opposite to how I intended. This was a difficult subject for me to raise, as those who are aware of the Masons know that it's a difficult orginisation to resign from. I've never been threatened, yet I'd never want to leave them as in my small way I joined to help my fellow man..Maybe I should simply delete this thread..what do you think?

In my application to Avelon I said that I wanted challenging conversation, open discussion and fair debate..anything else demeans you or I, or else there is no point. If this does not meet Project Avelons criteria then feel free to remove me from your website.

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

3rd May 2010, 22:50

Spot on One!

sunnyrap

4th May 2010, 02:20

Freeman, researcher-historian-commentator-film maker and son of Worshipful Master of Freemasonry, has produced a video-documentary on this topic worth watching, for all who want more details on this discussion: it's just under 30 minutes:

http://freemantv.whynotnews.eu/?p=472

sunnyrap

4th May 2010, 02:27

I'm philosophically opposed to the whole Freemason thing for a LOT of reasons, so entering into a discussion about it is really going to be about my trying persuade anyone in the organization to see 'the error of their ways'. So from me, this would not allow honest debate as I'm unlikely to change my point of view. I've digested a mountain of information on how destructive the organization has been and from perspective, still is. I personally cannot see how the 'help' that it gives with its open hand could possibly balance out the death, destruction and misery it deals with the 'hidden' hand...

Manifestor

4th May 2010, 12:59

I would recommend everybody who is interested in freemasonry should read the book: "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff"

http://www.manlyphall.org/text/the-lost-keys-of-freemasonry/

you can read it there online

Rimbaud

5th May 2010, 21:28

sunnyrap,

I totally understand your thoughts and it is not my job to try to convince you to change your views regarding Freemasonry. I opened this link to see how foilk really feel about this emotive subject and my conclusion is that while some are open minded, most are against the whole idea.

That's a fair view but one that I must argue against, simply because I maintain that I joined them to help where I could and when I could. I can see that the whole system can seem to be Elitist whereas those within our fraternity know that it's not. For every two percent of the highest level Freemason Worldwide..ninety eight percent of us do good work for our communities. I remain to be convinced that the top two percent actively engage in Evil works...I see what they do; whilst you probably can't. Our charitable acts are "secret" which surely is the first law of charity.

Anyway I've said enough...goodnight.

Rimbaud

SteveX

5th May 2010, 21:35

Rocky_Shorz

5th May 2010, 21:55

I'm from the Bloodline of Washington so understand what you are saying Steve, very few people understand that freemasons were visionaries, most very gifted at seeing glimpses of the future and many dedicated their lives to changing that outcome...

There are those who are trying to fulfill the prophecies in the bible which right now makes it a very dangerous time for all of us...

The illuminati are like a prism of light, each separated out into its own strengths from darkness to light...

The best all of us can do is not to be afraid but find those in the darker shades and fill them with light...

Swami

5th May 2010, 22:00

Just curious......

1) Why all the secrecy and rituals?
2) Do your fellow bretheren know your are discussing these issues on a forum?

The money-thing: Feed the hungry.......

K626

5th May 2010, 22:03

Rocky_Shorz

5th May 2010, 22:26

I've been asked loads of questions about Freemasonry, but firstly I want to assert that I have never left my Lodge No: 1124 , I don't ever intend to leave it as I believe that we do too much good.

Specific questions:-
1) Yes despite being an ex-Grand master there are degrees above me, but as far as I'm aware they espouse brotherly love and charity.
2) Yes buildings in some places worldwide are built to our code..it's not a bad idea as they are geo sound.
3) I am absolutey NOT a member of the Illuminati whoever they may be! I run my own business and donate charity through my Fraternal Brothers

Friends, when I first started watching "Camelot" eons ago, I felt excluded because of my involvement in Freemasonry..I still expect to be booted out of the forum because of it. By allowing me to stay on board you guys show incredible guts and I thank you for your trust. I won't discuss my initiation through the degrees; but am happy to discuss anything else.

Yours Fraternally

Rimbaud

Well one thing I think is very important is to have someone step forward that actually "knows" the answers. One thing that always drove me nuts about Camelot was we only heard the one side and no one could speak for the other. You have the floor and our attention and I myself am very glad to have you join us to share your knowledge.

I like your honesty about not knowing all the inner secrets and I'm sure saying the top 2% in the organization is bad is an exaggeration.

a few handfuls of people have given the whole organization a very bad name...

If your lodge really wants to help children and animals why don't you offer assistance in getting free energy technology into the mainstream?

Powering homes with a few handfuls of permanent magnets is a reality, and the world needs influential people to step forward to move it forward.

the oil spill has just destroyed the gulf for the next 30-40 years, if it continues to spread it will kill off our oceans and our planet, pretty scary stuff...

and yet, the world demands more fuel, so it will continue

You want to bring FreeMasons back into the light of positive thoughts, then be the pioneers in pushing these technologies forward...

You are known as builders, that's what Mason's are...

let me hand you the plans for an automobile that can travel from San Diego to Boston non stop...

Help us to start building a better world for our children.

Rocky_Shorz

6th May 2010, 00:11

Well I guess the question on whether you are being watched was just answered...

Just received this email...

CONNECT is seeking nominees in the areas of energy efficiency, smart power, renewables, transportation and water management for our 2010 Cleantech Venture Roundtable.

CONNECT's Cleantech Venture Roundtable provides a platform for investment-ready cleantech companies to present to active angel and venture capital providers. To qualify, nominees are screened by industry experts and finalists have the opportunity to receive presentation coaching from CONNECT Entrepreneurs-in-Residence. Venture Roundtable presentations to capital providers will take place on June 24 at Procopio's new downtown green office space.

Are you an Angel Investor or Venture Capitalist interested in attending?
Please contact Taylor Peterson at 858.964.1341 or tpeterson@connect.org

Baelsfire

6th May 2010, 03:40

Hello Rimbaud, welcome to Avalon :)

Hopefully when you are a reading this you are in good spirits!

Seeing as you invited a Q&A thread, I would like to ask you a few seemingly random questions about (what you called) the "odd" stuff, if you feel comfortable talking about it.

You did say you didnt want to talk about the pomp and ritual, i guess because these are maybe very personal experiences for you - and i think thats great.

But this leads me to wonder if you have a particular interest in magikal practise? You said you are not Christian so i see no problem with that all by the way, I'd just like to know more about your views on magick and the universe/multiverse, seeing as you actively practise it but seem .. almost embarrassed to talk about it!

Do you have a Talisman? Or maybe several.. Im fascinated to know more of it.

Also, do you read and maybe enjoy or gain great insight in any particular passages of your Masonic Bible?

How do you think it is different from "conventional" Christian teachings?

It would be great to hear!

All the Best

Joshua

3optic

8th May 2010, 14:21

The supposed hierarchical structure of these organisation doesn't suggest to me that they were think tanks. Also it seemed to me that it was normally capitalists with a bit of power and influence that were invited to join up.

Hi One. The mistake of lumping secret societies and think tanks together may have been mine. Sorry to be off topic, but to clarify:

I suggest that to run successful think tanks you might be better off allowing a wider spectrum of the population to join in with all the thinking. Otherwise the danger is that you end up with a load of "thinking" about how to herd the cattle about to your best advantage.

It depends on one's definition of success. Think Tanks such as The Club of Rome would certainly not want to allow a wider spectrum. Let's be clear when we are using the term think tank (which has been effectively hijacked by presumably elitist groups started by David Rockefeller) we are usually referring to CoR and it's PR groups or NGOs (Non Governmental Organizations) such as the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. These are elitist groups with a deceptive agenda dealing with "crisis creation" that I'm guessing would be abhorrent to most on this forum.

It seems to me there is overlap with the philosophy of Masonry and these Rockefeller backed foundations that may become clearer after investigation.

See Agenda 21, and the book Limits to Growth

Unraveling the Club of Rome (part 1) (http://recyclewashington.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/unraveling-the-club-of-rome-part-1/)

Rimbaud

12th May 2010, 23:41

Hi 3optic,

I'm afraid that your comments go way over my head and can only comment that I don't feel that I'm an elitist man in any sense shape or form. My lodge most definately has no links with any Governmental or Banking interests; ..Yes there are Bankers within it, along with shopkeepers, Judges, Vicars and "Uncle Old Cobbley and all!"... I assure you, if I felt for one moment, that I was being perverted by some kind of Illuminati agenda I would instantly resign and return my apron. I don't feel that however; and will continue to do charitable works as long as I'm able to. This is no "bleeding Heart" sentiment..but it is a sentiment that has been drummed into my psyche since I joined 1724

Rimbaud

SteveX

13th May 2010, 00:50

Snipped

but it is a sentiment that has been drummed into my psyche since I joined 1724

Rimbaud

Immortal or vampire? Lestat de Lioncourt perhaps?

thedot

13th May 2010, 01:44

Can't say for other countries, but living in France, it is impossible not to know rather much abour Freemasonry, especially for an interested journalist. The books authored by and addressed to Freemasons are published by several publishing houses here and are available in virtually any book store throughout the country. And, of course, with nearly 300,000 Freemasons in France, every French, or almost, has at least one among his or her freinds. I know about a dozen, some are my good and old friends, and all are wonderful persons. I've learned much from them in what concerns their research methodology. Don't know if it's really their rule, but they seem to never say a word without first digging into its deep original meaning - a really great habit in our "doublespeak times"!

I have to admit, though, that none of my Freemason friends is even close to the degree of Rimbaud (31st, wow!), leaving alone ever being Grand Masters. But it doesn't really matter too much. As far as I know, the level of access to important political secrets is not given automatically, even to Grand Masters, but individually. So it's not Rimbaud's decision to "disclose" himself as a high-degree mason that has surprised me. (Any Freemason has the right to disclose himself if he feels like doing so; what he has no right to do is to disclose any other mason.) What has surprised me in Rimbaud's initial post is that his lodge seems to have much more money than it needs for functioning. This is strange. Freemasonry has a pyramidal structure, with lower levels paying regular contribution to the higher ones. At the lowest, so-called "Blue" level (at which, as Jordan Maxwell puts it, Freemasons are only dressed as such and have no idea of what they are really part of), there is no other money than personal contributions of lodge members. I have called one of my friends this evening, I don't know his degree, only know he's a Master, initiated 15 years ago, and he said that a lodge with excessive amount of money to spend is something he's never heard of.

Sorry for this outsider's impression, dear Rimbaud, but I've studied Freemasonry for several years, and it really sounds strange.

Manifestor

13th May 2010, 01:56

Hi 3optic,

but it is a sentiment that has been drummed into my psyche since I joined 1724

Rimbaud

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Manifestor

13th May 2010, 02:04

is it true that the rituals are supposed to "clean" your inner temple for the return of the master?

Baelsfire

14th May 2010, 14:25

Rimbaud, its sad you felt the need to completely ignore my post to you. Though on consideration, if you are a "faker", which i consider you are, then this is exactly what would be done. It appears you have no true intention in explaining about your beliefs in this organisation you claim to be a member of.

Rimbaud

15th May 2010, 00:41

Hi,
It's very late for me now, so I must go to bed in a minuite otherwise I won't be up to take my kids to school. Forgive me for not answering your comments one by one..so I'll sort of lump you together and reply as best as I can:-

1) SetveX, 1724 is my primary Lodge number not my date of birth LOL!...to narrow the search it's called "Kaiser I Hind" and it's an old Lodge mainly full of ex-Army types, judges Barristers and Clergy...About ten years ago they allowed types like me in...maverick and wanting to disclose and open the whole system of Freemasonry up to public scrutiny..The old "farts" in my Lodge weren't keen to do it; but when my turn came as Grand Master (the youngest in two hundred years)..I forced it on them!..they didn't have a choice. I've said before and repeat that I'll never divulge our Rites and ceremonies which are sacred to us all in the Fellowcraft and are easily found on the net anyway. But to give you a clue to my non-Illuminati status...I own my Inn in the French Pyrenees and just had to cook for fifty folk...I had to otherwise i couldn't pay my mortgage next month!...Illuminati be buggered! i wish they would help me out a bit!

2) thedot,

You're totally correct in saying that I'd never name another Freemason...I've been in Lodges thruought the World..USA,Canada, Palestine,Turkey,Iran, Greece and many more...I became the grand Master of my Lodge at a very young age. I also became an adept of Rose Croix and entered into the Knighthood of our Brothers of Malta a while ago. As for our charitable works; we're lucky to have some very wealthy types in our lodge..i.e folk who are happy to bid £200,000 on a directors seat in an international Rugby match.

These proceeds go directly to charities such as "Save the Children"...my own charity is the R.S.P.C.A ( ROYAL SOCIETY FOR THE PREVENTION OF CRUELTY AGAINST ANIMALS)..Which is my Charity, because I hate seeing animals in pain.

Folks, I'm sort of wanting to give up this thread right now..I know that I opened a debate,but feel that I'm having to defend myself all the time.7

Rimbaud

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Baelsfire,

I didn't ignore your post! I didn't see it in the first place..I'll look now

Rimbaud

Baelsfire

15th May 2010, 00:46

Hey i just realised that this thread is ten pages long... my post above was to accusatory in light of this, i apologise. :)

Rimbaud

15th May 2010, 01:06

Baelsfire (Joshua),

Firstly I thought I'd replied to you personally in your "inbox"..I'm sorry if it didn't get through! I definately remember replying to your interesting question. You must understand that I'm a very busy guy and don't have much access to my home computer very much..so if I don't reply for a couple of days, it means I haven't looked at my PC for a couple of days...will you allow me that at least?

Now, I know nothing about Majick, unless you are referring to Crowley.. a person who I definately don't believe you should dwell apon...I'm a Freemason, not a Black Mage..and believe me I've done it all. Don't get drawn into the darker arts Joshua (I'm concerned about the way you sound) Mail me and I'll give you my phone Number...I'll be damned if I see you heading towards where I've been in the past. I didn't ignore you friend...Mail me!

Rimbaud

Baelsfire

15th May 2010, 01:31

Well as a Adept of the Rosy Cross, im surprised to hear you know nothing about majick. I consider most if not all of the rituals of Freemasonary to be magical practise (the ones i have any knowledge about). I am particularly interested in the Rosicrucian's presently if thats of interest to you, and the OTO have their place with me also.

It did dawn on me that you are busy and had a large number of posts to reply to, hence my apology for the tone of my post #101 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1497-Freemasonry&p=18829&viewfull=1#post18829).

I do appreciate your concern though it may be unneeded! I am a student of Thoth and as such an indepth study of duality and non duality are part of the process. But id be more than happy to talk with you in PM when you are free to do so :)

Thank you Rimbaud

SteveX

15th May 2010, 02:02

Rimbaud

I was just having a laugh with you about the 1724 thing. I figured there was a typo.

Edit...ment to mention that my wife works for the RSPCA.

Rimbaud

15th May 2010, 22:58

Hi Baelsfire...Just checking in to say hi and thanks for the invite!....We'll lock horns soon lol!

Cheers

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

15th May 2010, 23:08

Hi SteveX,

I knew you didn't really believe I was over two hundred year old lol! although to be honest I feel like it tonight!...I've been in my kitchen since 7 am today, but I'm not complaining.

Congrats on your Wife working for my fave charity!...the RSPCA do incredible work and are unsung heros to my mind. Animals have souls too; and once we can stop being cruel to them, then maybe we can grow to be kind to our fellow humans.

Thanks for being a humerous friend...but feel free to debate with me here, as it's why I joined in the first place..to share views, argue and debate.

Cheers friend

Rimbaud

Manifestor

18th May 2010, 00:24

Hello Rimbaud,
can you explain me the purpose of the two pillars B J in Freemasonry?

SteveX

18th May 2010, 00:28

I don't have anything to debate about. Apart from 3 of my relatives, 2 of which were the highest ranking any freemason could be, I don't have anything to add other than conjecture and speculation. Yes they rubbed shoulders with folk reported to be involved in the dark arts but they did more for the community and / or bettering causes.

I’m not surprised some masons are in power grabbing or market-grabbing factions like government and corporate global capitalism although I don't buy the illuminati deal. I'm sure freemasons help each other out just like any group of friends would and that’s a scary thought when it involves the elite. Lower down the scale I don't think your freemason buddies would go as far as to make sure no other Inns could trade within a few miles of yours but I'll wager your friends recommend your Inn. Like wise you would recommend their business or place of work. Everyone does that...not just masons.

To me it’s just a bunch of folk acting out funny rituals and organizing charity events.

Rimbaud

20th May 2010, 23:44

Steve X,

In many ways you're spot on...but from my point of view I didn't need money particularly and am quite happy with a tenner in my pocket. What I did enjoy was watching my wealthy Lodge members parting with their cash for good causes.. I can't stress this enough...It was a pleasure for me to see a youth club in the East End being saved from closure, or a womens hostel where they're safe from their abusive spouses continuing ...I count these as victorys for Freemasonry.

Steve X, you know full well that it runs deeper than the above; but despite my ex high rank...I'm now just a grunt and make my signs and have my dinner at certain times in the lunar month..However I agree that there are some who head towards the extreme

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

20th May 2010, 23:51

Manifestor,
I won't name the pillars as I swore my oath and stand by it...however just do a youtube search and you'll find it there..or if not Google it. For me it is the corner stone of what I have been shown...It's probably a hell of a lot more boring than you think!

Rimbaud

thedot

21st May 2010, 00:13

Hi Manifestor,

Check out this Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaz_and_Jachin#Boaz_and_Jachin) on Solomon's Temple. All Masonic temples use this scheme (with some rite-specific differences, but the meaning of objects is always the same and originates in the Bible).

Manifestor

23rd May 2010, 22:36

Hi Dotman,
thanks for the info, but I allready knew that. I wanted to know some other things about the pillars, but now I understand that this things can`t be discussed here.
thanx anyway

Rimbaud

7th June 2010, 21:59

Dear Manifestor,

The Pillars are what they are..I'm sorry I can't add to this. I wanted to open a discussion about the impact of Freemasonry on our culture; rumour, Illuminati PTB and so on..not discuss our ceremonies and rites etc. I always made it very clear that I would never discuss them; Thedot is absolutely correct in telling you where you can find the facts that you want..as to the esoteric nature of the two pillars...you know that they both have a name and I really can't say any more on this subject..Therefore I'm going to ask a moderator to close the thread.

Many thanks to the friends that I've met here..It didn't go quite how I planned; nevertheless, I have met some open minded lovely folk who are now my friends.

Love to all

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

7th June 2010, 22:26

Steve-a,
I was looking for a moderator to close my " Freemasonry" thread down, as I couldn't see any point in continuing it. I opened it as a free discussion to debate matters that we have all discussed in the past..ie..are all Masons members of the Illuminati?..Do all Masons hold a rank in the "Powers that be"

I think that you were very harsh towards me when I was merely trying to open a debate and chair a discussion regarding pre-concieved perceptions and stereotypes. Part of my role in Freemasonry was to inform and remove the myth for the public, and lay bare our intent without going into details regarding our ceremonies. I hope I've achieved that at least.

In the meantime Sir, can you close this thread so that I can concentrate on more important Avelon issues...ones which are closer to my heart and soul. Those goals are and have always been helping my fellow man regardless of colour, race or creed.

Many thanks,

Rimbaud

John Parslow

2nd August 2010, 15:12

MariaDine

2nd August 2010, 15:42

There is the esoteric R.C. and the exoteric R.C.
One is civilian...the other has what is called the secrets. This last One is «divided». Your intention «choses» the one you will be in contact with. Law of attraction.
Know thyself .

Namaste

MariaDine

2nd August 2010, 16:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Put3K0Tp_go

In Portugal...in the news...the civilian side :)

MariaDine

2nd August 2010, 16:22

The grã master in the video is a socialist parlament member and a university theacher. All said. :)

Rimbaud

6th August 2010, 00:21

Hello Rimbaud

Firstly I take my hat off to for being so upright and honest and opening yourself to the possibilities of a hostile response - should there be any.

I have only just caught up with thread but I have to tell you that my ex-Father-In-Law was at one time The Grand master of the Lodge of King Solomon and he was a very kind and loving soul whom I miss greatly since he passed over.

To all Avalonians please note: Not all Free Masons are Illuminate and I suspect not all Illuminate are Free Masons. Just a thought ...

My love and peace to you all. JP :cool:

Hi friend John,

I originally opened this thread just to see what the response would be and absolutely expected derision and accusations (we all know how Freemasonry has been thought of over the last few years)....Actually I was amazed at how many people were open minded and inquisitive..and wanted to know more...not about the rites and funny handshakes per se...but about my views on it..why I joined..the history of etc etc. Sure there was some negative stuff but way, way less than I thought there'd be.

If you've read all through the thread..I think you'll see that for me it was a kind of "Coming Out" ...I don't mean this as a "double entendre"... but I had been doing it for so long and was feeling bad about myself for doing it!...For some (surprisingly few actually), I will never be much better than a minion of the Anti-Christ; but some I think, have come to terms with the fact that you can be a Freemason, and an ok guy at the same time. Like in any institution, I'm sure that Freemasons have their fair share of greedy grasping utter ****s...just as I'm sure that there are some spin off lodges that are dedicated to the Satanic Occult...God know the symbolism is there for a perverted mind to pervert the symbolism if that makes sense.

To conclude..like I've often said during this thread ..(which I had thought was played out by the way)....The VAST majority of Freemasons that I've met from all walks of life..and I mean all walks of life in many lodges both domestic and Worldwide...are the kinds of people that you'd want to know. The kind who will help you if you need help (not just other Freemason and usually not)..they give loads to charity without blowing a bugle to announce the fact and are often unutterably kind; never boastful and ALWAYS humane towards our fellow man....John I'm sure that you can recognise some of these traits in your Ex-Father in law.

By the way..I'm not saying that I'm any of the foregoing...you'd have to meet me to know that. I do however aspire to being those things, and every day I try to be that person..as hard as it can be sometimes when you see poverty, suppression, cruelty and violence around you every day..not here as I live on the side of an extinct volcano in the Pyrenees, and my nearest neighbour is a wild boar or bear...but I get to the city often enough for me to feel that there's still a place for compassion and love.

God Bless John,

Thanks for listening to this rant, and going thorough the roller-coaster of my thread!

Your friend

Rimbaud

John Parslow

6th August 2010, 08:13

Hello my dear friend Rimbaud

I am so pleased to hear from again, I had qualms that you may have quit over blue777's departure (probably not quite the correct use of the word) but like you I was surprised and somewhat dismayed at his exit from this forum, however that is another closed thread …

To be perfectly honest, I thought it FREEMASONRY was a brilliant thread and as stated earlier, I was surprised and delighted that you had the guts to 'come out', and no "double entendre" accepted! I feel sure that most ‘like-minded’ people on this forum approached it with the sensitivity and open mindedness that this subject deserves. I believe that because the very nature of Freemasonry is a ‘secret society’, many not so enlightened souls perceive it as a bad idea – not all secret societies are bad in the same manner that not all open societies are good.

I sincerely hope that this thread has allowed you to feel happier about yourself and all the good that you do for the world. Apropos ‘the satanists’, there unfortunately will always be negative elements who are unable to look past their narrow view of the world, it unfortunately ‘goes with the territory’!

As I mentioned previously, I can only speak of my personal experience with my ex-Father-In-Law: he was a very kind, loving man full of goodness – he was the head of a very large mental institution and on the several occasions that I had to opportunity to visit, I was truly amazed by the response to him of the poor souls therein. He was absolutely idolized by all he cared for which is a side of him that he never spoke of …

I was asked by him on many occasions if I would like to 'join-up' so to speak but at that time I was young had just married (his daughter) and trying to make my way in the world by working shifts and playing in bands in the evenings - by the time I was settled enough to consider his offer he had passed on.

God bless you too Rimbaud and as ever I send you all my love and peace to you my friend. JP :cool:

greybeard

6th August 2010, 08:49

My own experience of members of the the local Masonic lodge was good.
I had two close friends and one acquaintance, they all did a lot of good quietly in the non masonic community, just kind hearted people.
They never tried to recruit me and it was only by chance I found out they were masons.
There are good hearted people in every orgnisation.
Chris

Steven

6th August 2010, 16:24

Ba-ba-Ra

6th August 2010, 17:08

I think this thread was a wonderful example of how things can eventually be understood at deeper levels, if we all continue to express our truths, while avoiding taking offense and being reactive ~ and apologizing when we realized we had misunderstood or judged to quickly. Yea Team!!!

Ba-ba-Ra

MariaDine

6th August 2010, 18:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3UJz-ewacY

MariaDine

6th August 2010, 18:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAPfAcGjnJE

kcw_one

6th August 2010, 18:20

I just caught up on this thread today, and found the exchange of ideas interesting. I find discussions into the darker sides of the "illuminati" control drama mostly counterproductive, but I'd like to share a perspective or two in hopes that it may help some others on their own Way.

As it has been mentioned already, there appear to be infiltrators in key positions in a vast number of organizations around the world, many of those organizations being heavy hitters like CIA etc. This control structure has carefully and cunningly been built over CENTURIES to get to where it is today. The degree of power that any one person holds increases the higher up the pyramid they are, and it is probably only a handful at any one time that have a clear picture of what is really going on behind the scenes. The rest if us have fragments of fragments to piece together, and I doubt any of us has the total right idea no matter how many books we've read.

Now these true "illuminatus" have not built any organization by themselves, I feel. Control dramas like this one are parasitic in nature, so the true illuminated ones let their tendrils into structures that the rest of US create and infect them with fear, hate and greed to establish influence over them. Notice how I said influence, not control, as this is an important point. These parasites guide the activities of the structures that they influence to produce conditions for their own benefit. What those ends are we can only speculate.

As far as the Freemasons go, I am fairly certain that this organization of generally well-meaning individuals has been used as a tool, just like most others. To say that all freemasons are evil or worship the great god Boogooloogoo or something is sort of pointless as well. It's like saying that all catholic priests molest children. Not true. Some have and still do, but certainly not all. We've all read about the terrible things done by any of the big three religions, but how do those terrible things stack up against all the good they have done?

Rimbaud sounds like an alright fella, from what one can gather from message board posts. I'm sure that freemasonry has had a hand in some really good works done in this world. I think that this type of organization will become outdated fairly soon though, as the world begins to forget about all of these control dramas and gets down to the business of BEING HAPPY!

I sense so much fear and anger in much of what is written about the conspiracy end of things. The interesting thing about all of this is that the "illuminati" or reptoids or whatever other boogeyman is out there HAS NO REAL POWER. Only the illusion of it because enough people believe the lie.

If this kind of thing interests you, then I suppose there isn't much harm in looking into it for a while. Just remember that the only way for something better to replace it is to focus on what we WANT and move towards that.

Rimbaud

7th August 2010, 01:15

Hi Rimbaud,

I see your point and I agree with you about the "positive" fruits that comes from Freemasons. And it is a reminder to all of us to avoid generalizing a whole group by the acts of a few. To me, in this sens, freemasonry looks like the catholic church. I have a very dear friend of mine who, I can assure you, is a man who lets the divinity in him to flourish everywhere he walks. He is a bishop of the catholic church. He spent most of his life in Latin america and Africa fighting beside the poorest of our kind. In the "60's", he almost lost his life in Nicaragua because he chose to take the side of the people 'laborers' instead of the military regime in power. He went in Africa, doing the same. Where he goes, he seeds hopes and happiness all the time. And he will defend the catholic church all he can, because he sees the generalization done from the outside, judging the church for its worse deeds, neglecting all the best that come out of it. He knows about the "two churches", he makes the distinction. But he is also caught in the middle and have chosen to keep on this path doing his job from the inside.

I had talks with him about aliens cover-up, from the church. We talked about the Jesuits, the Dominicans and the Franciscans manipulating the old translations in the centuries that followed the death of Jesus Ben-Pantera. He knows about the infiltration at the vatican, in freemasonry, Nasa, and most of the political/military powers of the world. But he chose to stay in. I asked why? He answered: "My mother is a prostitute, she smokes drugs and forgets about her children, but it is still my mother and I love her". I respect him with all my soul.

I understand your view, but must tell you that all the negativity geared toward freemasonry has exaggeration, generalization and foundation. If you really are what you say, a 31th degree Grand master Freemason, and you are to defend freemasonry, you have to be aware that your worse enemy isn't the public judgment, but the infiltrators in your ranks.

Namaste, Steven

Dear Steven,

I must tell you that despite having held a high masonic rank in the past, I now take a back seat within my Lodge to allow my new Brothers to come up to the fold. I have served my time and can now relax a bit. I live abroad from my lodge anyway these days and only come home for the "Tylers" reception. I can absolutely confirm to you Steven that my lodge has never in my presence discussed UFO's, Papal doctrines or doctrines of any kind. We are not the progeny of the Templars although we have similar rites..we aren't Satanists although a pentacle IS prevalent in our ceremonies.

I'm actually wondering if I can get my Lodge members to allow some of you to come to an initiation..It's a wonderful moving thing to watch..and so far removed from that which is imagined. I'm bursting to tell you about it..but of course I can't.

Just trust me..I'm doing my best to bring Freemasonry into the 21stC...One day you'll all benefit from our Craft...it's what we're all working towards and it's our (my sole goal)...We know whats coming and are working behind the scenes to protect you all. We're used to being called the dark forces...yet we're the ones fighting for you.

Rimbaud

Steven

7th August 2010, 02:08

Dear Steven,

I must tell you that despite having held a high masonic rank in the past, I now take a back seat within my Lodge to allow my new Brothers to come up to the fold. I have served my time and can now relax a bit. I live abroad from my lodge anyway these days and only come home for the "Tylers" reception. I can absolutely confirm to you Steven that my lodge has never in my presence discussed UFO's, Papal doctrines or doctrines of any kind. We are not the progeny of the Templars although we have similar rites..we aren't Satanists although a pentacle IS prevalent in our ceremonies.

I'm actually wondering if I can get my Lodge members to allow some of you to come to an initiation..It's a wonderful moving thing to watch..and so far removed from that which is imagined. I'm bursting to tell you about it..but of course I can't.

Just trust me..I'm doing my best to bring Freemasonry into the 21stC...One day you'll all benefit from our Craft...it's what we're all working towards and it's our (my sole goal)...We know whats coming and are working behind the scenes to protect you all. We're used to being called the dark forces...yet we're the ones fighting for you.

Rimbaud

Ah! Your post is refreshing, bringing new air on freemasonry. Personally, I do not associate dark forces to any human group. It's a spirit with thoughts inspired in any human. When sorrow, anger or fear comes, the dark spirit takes advantage and inspire the unaware. It is everywhere in human activities and we have the choice to follow it or to follow our heart. I'm also "fighting" the good fight for all humanity and planet Earth, at a spiritual level with the power of consciousness. Contributing to create heaven on Earth, that's the goal.

Namaste, Steven

Rimbaud

8th August 2010, 01:33

Ah! Your post is refreshing, bringing new air on freemasonry. Personally, I do not associate dark forces to any human group. It's a spirit with thoughts inspired in any human. When sorrow, anger or fear comes, the dark spirit takes advantage and inspire the unaware. It is everywhere in human activities and we have the choice to follow it or to follow our heart. I'm also "fighting" the good fight for all humanity and planet Earth, at a spiritual level with the power of consciousness. Contributing to create heaven on Earth, that's the goal.

Namaste, Steven

Merci mes amis..we fight the fight and live or die for our struggle...That is the fate of us humans and I for one won't be restrained!

Your friend

Rimbaud

Dale

8th August 2010, 01:59

This was a very fun thread to read.

I think a great deal of the misconceptions about Freemasonry could be cleared up by reading "Secret Teachings of All Ages," by Manly P. Hall. It's a very dense book, but Manly Hall eloquently describes a vast amount of information on this subject. It's available in almost every bookstore. I highly recommend the book. Hall was a profoundly spiritual man, a great teacher, and a brilliant Freemason.

Bill Ryan

8th August 2010, 07:26

Ixopoborn

8th August 2010, 22:01

Dear Steven,

Just trust me..I'm doing my best to bring Freemasonry into the 21stC...One day you'll all benefit from our Craft...it's what we're all working towards and it's our (my sole goal)...We know whats coming and are working behind the scenes to protect you all. We're used to being called the dark forces...yet we're the ones fighting for you.

Rimbaud

Dear Rimbaud - this thread has been delightful to read. I am clear in my understanding that you are working for the good of humanity as a freemason. Did you ever come to supect or know that there is a dark side to the same order.

I have friends who are freemasons and they tell me that petty corruption was rife in the UK branch of freemasonry until maybe 15 years ago. The kind of thing I am referring to is police not pressing charges on discovering an offending driver is a freemason or is a son or daughter of one. What is your take on such stories?

I am told that membership numbers are dropping fast in the UK with very few new members joining. To what cause do you attribute this?

Acknowledging that the vast majority of freemasons are quite ordinary folk who use freemasonry for social purposes and not a lot else, what useful function does freemasonry have in the 21st century?

Rimbaud

9th August 2010, 02:10

Dear Rimbaud - this thread has been delightful to read. I am clear in my understanding that you are working for the good of humanity as a freemason. Did you ever come to supect or know that there is a dark side to the same order.

I have friends who are freemasons and they tell me that petty corruption was rife in the UK branch of freemasonry until maybe 15 years ago. The kind of thing I am referring to is police not pressing charges on discovering an offending driver is a freemason or is a son or daughter of one. What is your take on such stories?

I am told that membership numbers are dropping fast in the UK with very few new members joining. To what cause do you attribute this?

Acknowledging that the vast majority of freemasons are quite ordinary folk who use freemasonry for social purposes and not a lot else, what useful function does freemasonry have in the 21st century?

Hi Ixopoborn,

Thanks for your kind mail to me on this thread that I had believed to be long dead; I'm very happy to discuss these issues so long as folk like you are interested in the subject..It's never been an agenda of mine to convert people towards Freemasonry or even begging for acceptance...We're totally at ease with the "bad press" that we live with from time to time; it happens at times in our History whenever there is a sense of fear prevailing and when scapegoats are required.

May I answer your generous mail point by point..I think that's the best way..then I'll try to make a summary at the end.

1) I fully accept that there may be some "Dark Lodges" within Freemasonry..have I come across any?..I suppose if put into a corner I must say yes I probably have. I posted earlier that certain rites could be perverted by twisted minds, especially in the Third Degree. Loads of things could be abused in our Fellow Craft by selfish grasping men. In my particular Lodge..we report any suspicions of foul play..being an ancient Lodge, we feel that it's a duty to do so.

2) Corruption was rife in Freemasonry until about twenty years or so ago in reality..there were some instances of paedophiles in the Dock with paedophile Judges delivering disgracefully lenient sentences after receiving the sign of distress..."The Widows Son"...These guys are being de-barred as we speak. A nameless High Court Judge in my Lodge has assured me recently, that he would double any sentence imposed if any Masonic sign was used.

3) Membership levels for Freemasons in the UK alone have dropped by about 35% in the last five years ..and the average age of members is 65 and a half according to my Lodges recent study..I put down the reasons for decline in membership down to the New World Order of greed and selfishness..a lack of desire to commit. Bad press from virtually all the sites that we on Avalon/Camelot read. I opened this thread to redress what I regard as a misconception formed through fear.

4) I disagree that Freemasons are ordinary folk..yes some use it in the provinces as an "Old Boys" network for a good piss up, with dinner and backslapping. In my experience ( my new Grand Master is 26 years old) the new breed in my particular Lodge are younger than I was when I became a Grand Master. I was bought in as "New Blood"..and the old duffers are delighted about this thread.

Ixopoborn..as far as I'm concerned and as far as most of my equals and peers are concerned...I see Freemasonry serving the people in the 21stC..I see young wealthy men helping their communities and their Countries, who really don't want to be applauded for their actions. I'm not wealthy sadly..as my business takes most of my cash...I still give 33% of my income back into my Charity of choice (Save the Children) and I have done for 25 years...So to conclude dear friend...If you ask me what use the masons are in the 21st Centuary..I can only answer ..Charity..It's my belief..creed and my only reason for being a part of the Human Race

God Bless and Good Night!

Rimbaud

Rimbaud

9th August 2010, 02:18

"Secret Teachings of All Ages," by Manly P. Hall available here (free PDF download):

http://knowledgefiles.com/categories/freemasonry/the-secret-teachings-of-all-ages

Thanks Bill..I didn't know you had that here as I was about to buy it. From what I've heard, it's an excellent book, but I'll have to read it to see.

Thankyou |Bill

Rimbaud

Ixopoborn

9th August 2010, 12:40

Hi Ixopoborn,

Ixopoborn..as far as I'm concerned and as far as most of my equals and peers are concerned...I see Freemasonry serving the people in the 21stC..I see young wealthy men helping their communities and their Countries, who really don't want to be applauded for their actions. I'm not wealthy sadly..as my business takes most of my cash...I still give 33% of my income back into my Charity of choice (Save the Children) and I have done for 25 years...So to conclude dear friend...If you ask me what use the masons are in the 21st Centuary..I can only answer ..Charity..It's my belief..creed and my only reason for being a part of the Human Race

God Bless and Good Night!

Rimbaud

Thanks Rimbaud - fine words indeed. You stand as a fine example to anyone who aspires to be upright and the truth. On previous occasions when I have requested information about corruption from Freemasons, I have received little back except obfuscation - however, not from you.

I must confess that my impression of Freemasonry has been rather badly tainted by my experience of a number of masonic social gatherings where I had been disappointed to find narrowminded, correction small-minded individuals of little education and no appreciation of any of the higher minded aspects of the organisation to which they belong or anything else for that matter. All rather sad really.

Now, I accept that, at least some lodges, are populated by individuals for whom such matters are crucially important.

Am I correct presuming that you, as a member of this forum accept as real: UFO's, a concealed relationship between races from other planets and mankind; new energy science concealed from the people; and the possibility of a super high level agenda to prevent the growth of conscious awareness of humanity?

If so, are such views common amongst the Freemasons in your lodge and amongst freemasons with which you have frequent contact?

Rimbaud

9th August 2010, 21:28

Thanks Rimbaud - fine words indeed. You stand as a fine example to anyone who aspires to be upright and the truth. On previous occasions when I have requested information about corruption from Freemasons, I have received little back except obfuscation - however, not from you.

I must confess that my impression of Freemasonry has been rather badly tainted by my experience of a number of masonic social gatherings where I had been disappointed to find narrowminded, correction small-minded individuals of little education and no appreciation of any of the higher minded aspects of the organisation to which they belong or anything else for that matter. All rather sad really.

Now, I accept that, at least some lodges, are populated by individuals for whom such matters are crucially important.

Am I correct presuming that you, as a member of this forum accept as real: UFO's, a concealed relationship between races from other planets and mankind; new energy science concealed from the people; and the possibility of a super high level agenda to prevent the growth of conscious awareness of humanity?

If so, are such views common amongst the Freemasons in your lodge and amongst freemasons with which you have frequent contact?

Hi Ixopoborn,

Once again a great mail from you, asking the questions that I CAN answer...For instance,your sense of a let down by some Masonic gatherings...I totally concur with that as some of them can be the most crashingly dull affairs that one can't wait to get out of as quickly as is acceptable. It totally depends on the Lodge and the people in it to determine how "interesting" the experience can be. My own Lodge has a high proportion of Judges and high level ecclesiastical figures...with a sprinkling of ex Army Officers such as myself...although I was always regarded as a bit of a maverick..and encouraged to be one I must add.

I must confess that at no time in any meeting or Lodge event, have I noticed any interest whatsoever in the sorts of things that we discuss here or any other site of this kind...after our ceremonies and dinner, it's very business like to tell the truth and probably would seem rather dull to an outsider.

To conclude...yes you are right that I believe in UFO's...simply because I've seen one, (three in fact)... the first being when I was 19..it was so vast that short of something the size of a small town taking flight it couldn't be anything else (anyway it looked like a UFO) the second was smaller but no less defined..and the last one was over my house in the Pyrenees about four months ago...big, triangular, silent and slow; witnessed by 15 or so people. Yes I believe in Alien entities interacting with ourselves..Governments and institutions etc...If they don't, then the World as we know it today doesn't make any sense to me. I totally believe that free energy devices are being withheld from the masses due to the greed of a few...but is their agenda anything more than that? Well I still need to be convinced. I certainly believe that some businessmen have way too much influence over what we do..think and say but NWO?..Illuminati?...I'm just not sure. It could be the case I suppose, it's just that I haven't seen anything that convinces me yet.

All the very best my friend...I hope I have helped in some small way with your researches.

Rimbaud

Ixopoborn

10th August 2010, 07:27

Hello Rimbaud - your response has helped my researches very significantly - thanks again.

Rimbaud

11th August 2010, 00:52

Thanks friend

Rimbaud

Steven

18th August 2010, 13:25

Hi Rimbaud,

I'de like to know if you ever heard of Dennis Brunnel and John Todd? If yes, what do you think about their personal testemony on Freemasonry?

You can find a lot of readings on them on the web, but I'll provide a couple links to begin with.

On Dennis Brunnel : http://www.burlingtonnews.net/jscott5.html

and John Todd : http://www.kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/john_todd_and_the_illuminati.htm

Namaste, Steven

Rimbaud

19th August 2010, 00:53

More importantly why not look into Dr. John...For any researcher that is the starting point..I really can't say more.. although I'd love to be able to. Steven..those articles you refer to hold a fraction of the truth even though I've only heard of them recently.

I can only repeat that my order is one of Brotherly love..regardless of creed or culture...the only thing we strive for is peace amongst our fellow man...It's my own private goal which I doubt that I'll ever see the way things are going..but it is the fervent hope of all Freemasonry..to see all of humanity being as one..That's why we're hated from time to time.

Rimbaud

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Dr. John Deeds

Rimbaud

19th August 2010, 01:01

"Secret Teachings of All Ages," by Manly P. Hall available here (free PDF download):

http://knowledgefiles.com/categories/freemasonry/the-secret-teachings-of-all-ages

Dear Bill,

Without trying to sound elusive..I'm trying to answer without my throat being cut...Thanks for your erudite comments..I'm just trying to send the thread down towards the "Rose Cross" and Dr. John. Ask any Mason and I suspect that he'll concur with me..If not then so be it.

In any case dear Bill...I hope that you're having a brilliant time.

Best Regards

Rimbaud

cloud9

19th August 2010, 04:12

I was finally able to read this thread and I can see that some times some members are really daring and others are more discreet.

Personally, I don't know anything about Freemasonry other than what I've read or seen through the internet but many years ago, I was 13 yo and I was studying at night finishing my high school, I was the only young student there, all other students were between 30 and 50 years old (it was in Colombia, adult education) and one of them (he was around 30 years old) told me one night that he wanted to join the Masons, he had gone to a few meetings and was interested.

As I didn't know anything about the Masons I asked him why he was interested and he said this to me:
All masons help each other, if you are one of them you'll have access to the best jobs, the best salaries, all of them become wealthy and they have a secret plan. When I asked him what the secret plan was he said:
They're going to own the world and they are doing it little by little, as more people join they'll have "contacts" everywhere, in every institution, company, school, church, etc. This is their plan and they have been doing it for a long time, so I think if I want to be successful in life, that's a good way to do it.

Now, this was in Colombia almost 40 years ago, it wasn't US or Europe and they were already working on it in a country that has no much influence on the rest of the world. I never forgot that conversation and when I started to learn about Freemasons and the Illuminati agenda I remembered.

This guy wasn't even a part of the organization yet but he was told about the overall plan and that by join it he would benefit from it.

He also said that most politicians, judges, military and wealthy people in the country were definitely masons and it was the biggest reason all of them were "protected" because the organization was looking after them all the time, he also said: why do you think these people can do what they do and never get punished?

Rimbaud

20th August 2010, 23:37

Dear Cloud9,

I'm sure that your friend had more noble thoughts in his mind in joining Freemasonry other than monetary gain. If he went into the "fellowship" with that goal in mind..I suspect that he was bitterly disappointed and hated the experience. I was never once offered a job within Freemasonry..or perks..or advantage...I've said this many many times..and I repeat it now. Throughout history..Fellow craft Freemasonry become the pariahs of many conspiracy theorists..but we're sort of used to it..these allegations happen every 50 years or so.

From my own point of view..I was invited to join an ancient Lodge and eventually became Grand Master..moving on in further years to other things. I wasn't exactly on the "Dole", but I never once took a single penny or benefited from any job offer...none were ever made to me..and that is Gods truth. I'm not a Christian as I'm sure you know..but I swear on the lives that I hold dear to me that I have never..ever benefited financially from the Masons...Just the opposite in fact...I try to give...and most of the time I can't give enough, and it breaks my heart.

Rimbaud

cloud9

21st August 2010, 05:29

Dear Rimbaud,
I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart: I believe you.

As I stated in my post, I don't know anything about Freemasonry so I can't judge but even if I knew, I can't judge either.

I've read many things but I don't make my mind about anything based on that, I used to do it but not anymore, I'm learning to not judge and apply that to my life every single day.

My comment was just a comment about something I heard many years ago.

I visit this forum as often as I can but not every day, I read a lot and I learn but I don't believe everything people say, I have seen so many statements, prophecies, predictions, theories, etc., and at the end it's just speculation so I'm learning discernment too.

Some things I leave in the back of my mind and wait, others I just discard them...

When I read Conversations with God some years ago, one of the things that made think really hard was the concept of living in a world without secrets and it's such a revolutionary idea that I believe humanity is not even close to live in that kind of society.

Secrecy makes a lot of damage, knowledge should be shared freely... you see, many problems would be solved very quickly just putting and end to secrecy.

Talking about my friend, I truly believe he was just after monetary gain and all advantages he could take from joining the organization.

Be at peace.

MariaDine

21st August 2010, 22:56

Freeman talks about his father a Freemason.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcE6Mm2Nr5k&feature=related

MariaDine

21st August 2010, 23:01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4AMh0qE4WU&feature=related

MariaDine

21st August 2010, 23:21

Freemansory counts time in a different way .... they are in the Year 6007 (Sumerian Calendar)

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/bernheim_dating1.html

MariaDine

21st August 2010, 23:30

PS - According to other computation that takes in consideration adjustements to vatican calendar, in relation to Jesus birth, the freemansory Year is 6010

Rimbaud

30th August 2010, 01:33

PS - According to other computation that takes in consideration adjustements to vatican calendar, in relation to Jesus birth, the freemansory Year is 6010

Your're way ahead of me MariaDine..Would you be prepared to submit your findings privately to me so that I can assist you as much as I can. Your mathematical calculations seem fair to me although I'm no expert within this subject..As you're patently aware there are a few "historians" within my order who, within reason..could probably aid your researches.

Rimbaud

MariaDine

30th August 2010, 02:31

A precious jewel :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWKGVtJujLQ

Carmody

31st August 2010, 22:25

A spokesperson for the Whitehouse is only useful for convincing people of the proffered data if they themselves believe what it is they are selling. Consequently, the least informed person in the entire Chain at the Whitehouse has to be the appointed Spokesperson.

When that person begins to wise up to the intricacies of what really goes on, their presence in front of the camera is notably less convincing to the public at large. It is at that point that they are removed from the slot of being the Whitehouse spokesperson. Removed --and a more naive person is put in their place.

This happens in many many areas, not just the Whitehouse. It is merely an obvious example. The best support has always come from the ignorant..and when it comes to doing things on such complex levels, the true number of initiates into real information does not have to be a big #, no, not at all. All one has to do is to tell someone something that allows their emotions to be satisfied, to 'shine on' the followers, so to speak. Even allow them mysteries, mysteries that when solved, go to safe places.

This is basic psychology 101. It has been going on for thousands of years. Finessing people, psychologically speaking, is not all that difficult.

The dividing line is a simple one.

If it is secret, it is a problem. Crap, fungus and mushrooms grow in the dark, and things that are bad naturally convene and converge there. It is just a matter of time. Inevitable. And after such a long time, such an organization as is discussed here..is obviously compromised beyond repair. It matters not the window dressing.

The good guys -- don't hide.

And if involved, you'll never see it from there. Godel's Statement G - His incompleteness theorem. You'll never see the issue when standing inside of it.

Rimbaud

31st August 2010, 22:46

I've nothing more to say on this subject.

Goodbye

Rimbaud

Manifestor

21st November 2010, 00:27

for the serious researcher:

The Lost Keys of Freemasonry
or
The Secret of Hiram Abiff
by Manly P. Hall
http://www.rgle.org.uk/The%20Lost%20Keys%20of%20Freemasonry.pdf
http://www.manlyphall.org/text/the-lost-keys-of-freemasonry/

York Rite Freemasonry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdP2Cf_knA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdP2Cf_knA

Scottish Rite Freemasonry
Part1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrUoD_1YIbM

Part2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhwRnNlSB8

A beautiful temple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olIjEnOHuNE

Manifestor

21st November 2010, 01:09

More about Freemasonry. This guy is telling the truth....unfortunately nobody wants to hear that....
Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4sHSdYFdGI

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNOe1w5Lwb0&feature=channel

Celine

21st November 2010, 01:11

i belive i have seen this before..

Masons , are a subject that has been debated quite a bit here.

Swami

22nd December 2010, 17:17

A Gallery of Strange Masonic Bedfellows

http://freemasonsecret.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/masonic-handshake-ahmadinejad-lary-king.jpg
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2242/acodex64.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8g22ch-M3qk/TCtIT__bx4I/AAAAAAAAAM8/BaDkX_WHgYA/s1600/pope_blair_mason_handshake.png
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2590/masonhandshake.jpg

by Zen Gardner

The world will never make sense until you realize the 'powers that be' are all in on it together. If you're stuck in some right/left or us/them or good guy/bad guy paradigm you'll never get it.

No, not everyone being used by the Illuminati are aware of it. Most at the lower levels of power think they're doing good. This is especially true about Freemasonry, which is why they try to keep a 'clean face' with altruistic morals and recruit some of their more popular or recognizable supposedly 'successful' initiates, such as movie stars and captains of industry.

However, Freemasonry has been reviled through the ages for its subversive effects on nations and society. As a result, they had to meet in secret and greet and verify each other in a clandestine language, much the way early Christians used the sign of the fish. Hence their hand sign language.

Occult? Yes. That's exactly what that word means. Hidden. But we're watching.

Let these pictures give you an idea of just how vast the true conspiracy really is. This should really get you 'wondering'. - Zen

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/321/611/A_Gallery_of_Strange_Masonic_Bedfellows.html