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Blue
24th February 2011, 15:54
Originally Posted by Chuck
There have been posts by others referencing some material that have been very helpful for me to come to grips with the very fine concerns raised here.
For example the post by Leon


Originally Posted by Leon
I found the following on Wiki this may be of some interest:

http://wikicompany.org/wiki/911:Black_Nobility


and the one immediately below it by Rocky_Shorz quoting some of the material



* "I am a generational member of a Ruling Bloodline Family. Every so often, as per the directives of the Law of our Creator, a brief window of opportunity opens, whereby a select handful of our Family are required to make communication with our subjects, and offer you the chance to ask us any questions you would like answered. I am double-bound in this duty. It is required of me by The Law of our Creator to offer this opportunity to you at this time, though I am also bound by the Law of (planetary) Free Will and by Family Oaths, that there is only so much I am able to say."
* "Our Lineage can be traced back beyond antiquity. From the earliest times of your recorded 'history', and beyond, our Family has been 'directing' the 'play' from behind the scenes, in one way or another. Before the rise and fall of Atlantis. (Yes, that was indeed perfectly real). We are 'born to lead'. It is part of the design for this current paradigm. The breeding is generally case specific, dependent upon the role that the Family members in question are due to grow into. I will touch more on this in answer to the next poster's question that you rephrased. There are no unapproved unions. Our Family will always intermarry between lines, or, what we would term 'Houses'. Marriages are arranged. In all my years alive, I have never seen or heard of a Family member breaking this code, as far as marriage goes. You do as you are told. One cannot 'join' the Family. One is 'born', or incarnated into it. On the rare instances of a child being born that could be seen as bringing 'difficulties', you are correct in your premise, that it would be raised as part of the Family, though would not grow up in the house or community of either of it's parents."
* "You need to first understand the structure of the Family. In the grand scheme of things, the Line is not as important as the House, the House, is not as important as the Family. The Family is all. No matter the House or Line, we are One (truly international) Family." (...) "Our realms of influence do not fit as comfortably into the three boxes of your triangle as you may imagine. There are six disciplines of training within the Family, and each member of the Family is schooled extensively in all of them, from early childhood. We all have an area of specialty, though we have experience in all spheres. The six spheres or 'schools' of learning are Military, Government, Spiritual, Scholarship, Leadership, and Sciences. In practice, out there on the 'stage' of public life, we hold key positions in all of these main areas of importance. With the addition of a complicit Media machine and ownership of your Financial establishments, all bases are covered."
* "... knowing the line is of no practical use to you. It is the belonging to the Family that is important. There are 13 'base' or 'core' original bloodlines. Yet there are many many other lines that spring from these, as do rivers from the oceans. If you imagine the 13 Original lines as Primary colour, that can be mixed to create a vast array of other colours, then you will have some comprehension. Again, no competition, just Family."
* "[The term "generational member"] means that one is born into the Family. The Order and it's agenda is handed down, from generation to generation. Only in extremely rare occasions, have outsiders been invested into the Family, and then, even these were of other 'esoterically' integrable lines."
* "Question: Are we really considered chattel and traded as such by the government? By the governments, generally, yes. People are seen as 'collateral'. Pawns that are maneuvered around the chess board, according to the game plan. By the Family, contrary to popular beliefs, many of us do not mean you any harm directly. There is just the matter of divine destiny to uphold and unfold, and we must play our parts in the game, as given to us by the Creator. In many ways, it is actually in our own interest that you are prepared for the coming Harvest. Just not maybe prepared in quite the way that you would like. Still, even then, you are choosing the Negative Polarity with your own Free Will decisions, with a little 'help' and direction from us. Souls are Harvestable in either 'extreme' of the Polarities, one could say."
* "You will never be 'free', for as long as you are incarnating on this planet. The very nature of your being here, is indication of that. There is a reason why you are here, and 'here' is very likely not really where you think 'here' is. How do you become free? By working out where you are, and coming to an understanding, of why you are here. You are fast running out of time to do so, before the coming Harvest. Those that don't make it, will have to repeat the cycle."
* "The British Royalty is not the most powerful line. The names that you know, do not hold the real ancient power. There are others above these lineages in the Hierarchy. You will not know the names of these lines."
* "I would be considered to be a "Regional" leader. Above me, are National and International."
* "It is very important to us, that the Polarization of this planet is Negative at the time of the Great Harvest. That means Service to Self orientated, as opposed to Positive, Service to Others. We require a Negative Harvest, and you are doing a fine job of helping us to attain our goal. We are very grateful."
o "Understand, that we HAVE to be Negative. That's what we were sent here to be. It is our contract, and it has always been to help you, by providing the "Catalyst" I spoke of earlier. Being Negative is very hard for us, not on a physical level, (the characters we play enjoy our roles, as we're programmed that way), but on a Spiritual level, it is hard. We surpassed the lowly negative vibrations eons ago. We are Light, and we are Love. It is a very hard thing for us to do Spiritually, to create all this Negativity, but we do it because we love you, and it is for your highest good, ultimately. You could say, that it is our Sacrifice that we have made, in order to be of Service to the One Infinite Creator, and to you, our Brothers and Sisters in the One. Remember, we are all just acting out a grand old game here, where we agree to forget who we really are, that in the remembering, that we may find each other again, and know that we are One. That All of Life, is One."
o "Our initial contract, was to introduce the Catalyst for Free Will on this planet. When Yahweh initially began discourse with the Council of Elders, he was not initially looking for help with introducing Free Will, but rather for guidance on how he could best speed up his (and his inhabitant's) evolutionary process."
o "As for "fighting for the freedom of all souls", remember that ultimately, this is a Game, that we are all playing here. We are actors, playing on the "stage of Life". This 'world' is all illusion, or 'though-form'. No one really "dies", and no one is really hurt. In between incarnations, you know this very well. But the rules of the game ensure that you must forget who you really are, so that you believe it is all 'real' whilst you are playing the game of Life. That is an essential prerequisite when you are making choices. Otherwise, the game would be too easy."
o "In order to "win" (or more accurately to be successful in) the Game, we must be as Negatively Polarized as possible. Service to Self in the extreme. Violence, War, Hatred, Greed, Control, Enslavement, Genocide, Torture, Moral Degradation, Prostitution, Drugs, all these things and more, they serve our purpose. The difference between us and you, in the Game, is that we know that we are 'playing'. The less you know about the Game, and the less you remember that you're a player, the more 'senseless' living becomes. In all these Negative things, we are providing you with tools. But you do not see it. It is not what we do, but how you react to it, that is important. We give you the tools. You have the Free Will choice how you will use them. You have to take responsibility. There is only One of Us here. Understand that, and you will understand the Game."
o "When one understands and sees that all is Illusion, or Thought, one can "use 'The Force' to manipulate the illusions. All things, seen and unseen, are inter-connected Life-Force Energy. Once you know what the magician knows, it's not magic. It's a 'tool of Creation'."
This is from a large document called the Hidden Hand material that modwiz and qbeac had referenced

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ar...ialogue_hh.pdf

Above link was removed so edit to...
http://www.wearechange.in/joomla/ind...-news&Itemid=1

end edit

I recommend it because it describes very well the contractual obligation of the elite to engineer a negative polarity of the planet for the up coming harvest. The extreme negativity provides a catalyst for all of us to aid in accelerated evolution. By presented with duality we exercise our free choice.

So it's about how we react, staying centered, in the eye of the hurricane ...knowing full well that the veil clouds our memory and our vision. We'll continue to be "poked in the chest" at an accelerated rate.

I thank you all for helping me through this process.





Hi,

This is from the link "A question for Bill Ryan - will he meet the group"

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12280-A-question-for-Bill-Ryan-will-he-meet-the-group

and I went off topic so thought I would start a new thread to find out how many people think that you have to suffer in life to evolve!
I read the main message in the bubble thingy and was really quite shocked by the sentiment behind it. I think its basically saying that the "Ruling BLoodline Family" want us to be as "Negatively Polarized as possible" And that they want us to experience as much "Violence, War, Hatred, Greed, Control, Enslavement, Genocide, Torture, Moral Degradation, Prostitution, Drugs, all these things and more" so we can evolve as fast as we can, as it part of their plan and that they are doing this from a place of love and light.

I dont know who wrote this and supposing its not a hoax or written by someone mentally ill, to me its the most warped idealogy I have come across.

I have always thought we are born actually pretty much ok in the first instance and if we grow up nurtured and supported and avoid unnecessary suffering ( I dont mean avoiding life experiences like relationships, work challenges, finding out what you want to do in life) but suffering due to say attachment to bad relationships, drugs, or suffering by being too accepting of situations or attitudes, then we can evolve through experiencing the beauty in the world and in the people around us, evolve through the practice of kindness, empathy, love and compassion!

I dont understand the logic of being born pretty much ok, then suffering loads so we evolve so we get back to where we were in the first place when we were born.

Is it all a big scam by the "Ruling BLoodline Family" to keep us down with the promise that its good for us and thats why we are here? And this scam is perpetuated and reinforced by religious institutions and government who say yes to war etc far too easily?

I would say our best retaliation is not to suffer and be happy! What would they do then. . . .

Just a thought,

blue

Jayke
24th February 2011, 16:14
suffering is the opposite of evolving
when you suffer it's because your holding onto something that isn't working for you.
evolution is about embracing change, adapting to and overcoming whatever is put in front of you.

there is a spiritual equation that i learned from a spiritual guy a while back, can't remember his name but he said:

pain multiplied by equanimity = spiritual purification

but suffering is just holding onto pain, having equanimity over pain allows you to see what that pain is trying to tell you, pain is a great motivator to inspire change in people

Charlie Pecos
24th February 2011, 16:17
I agree with what Jayke said and would like to add,

The suffering, the trials and tribulations of life come from the choices that we make, either while here as an expression of free will, or as part of our life contract so that we may learn and grow spiritually. Either way, we are here to learn. How many lessons have you learned through pain? You wouldn't want to repeat them, but they are part of who you are. Be grateful for those experiences. You wouldn't be where you are today without them. As far as games go, the only way to win is not to play.

Borden
24th February 2011, 16:47
Hi, Blue, thanks for your post,

I'm not sure if this s exactly in the spirit of your thread, but when I saw the title I just had to respond.

Very recently I had an insight into suffering as a means of progression. It was such a trivial thing, really, that i won't even embarrass myself by detailing it, but while going through it I had one of those flashes of insight that's quiet and deep. It was just a minor physical ordeal, but you know how you get into Alpha state at such times?

I have this question in my mind a lot. Is hardship and suffering how to learn and progress. Well, my recent insight told me that no it is not. The thing that moves us forward is will. Now, that may entail suffering in that one has to find one's will through a trial. But suffering is not what it's all about. I see that as the lowest common denominator. It's a mistake, and a mistaken belief. We live in a world of lowest common denominators.

Very flakey way of putting it: I think the universe wants us to create. That's all. It (we) want new experience. We're not going to get new experience while travelling under the yoke of prior misconception. Suffering is the hard way. The stupid way. That doesn't mean I think that you shouldn't go through what you're going through - of course not. Get out the other side!

I think learning through suffering is like being kept back a year at school. There's a better way. But of course sympathise with the poor kid who has been held back a year. Our evolution surely goes hand in hand with our growing compassion.

Borden.

king anthony
24th February 2011, 16:59
Is the concept of suffering (here) not attributed to the need to be something more!? Do human beings not have a need to belong to something, such as sports teams, corporate entities, religious groups, careers or (and) to be unique!? Have human beings not created stories to qualify themselves, to give hope/faith, or to justify why!? Has the human mind not been known to complicate the uncomplicated!?

I say, suffering is simply the reality that is (now).

Carmody
24th February 2011, 17:03
If you read the whole thing with the right viewpoint.....in a strange way.... it says: "Seek Detachment".

Jayke
24th February 2011, 17:06
If you read the whole thing with the right viewpoint.....in a strange way.... it says: "Seek Detachment".

"Wherever there's attachment, association with it...brings endless misery" - Gampopa

Borden
24th February 2011, 17:11
Well, seeking detachment is pretty Taoist. I like that. There is a stillpoint we can access. I know, I stumble upon it every so often. And believe you me, I'm in something of an emotional $&"!-storm right now.

BTW, King Anthony, is that you in the photo? Because if it is, then you could teach us all quite a bit about will. It's will that got you into that shape, and the suffering was chosen, right? I mean, it was challenge, not suffering? If I get in a fight I want you on my side.

Borden.

Jay
24th February 2011, 17:12
This interesting question is addressed in the holy gospel of twelve - in relation to reincarnation or "soul regeneration". Same indicates that we have to suffer and overcome in order move forward / evolve (?)
See Lection 37, No.3 "Regeneration of the Soul" (The Gospel of the Holy Twelve is also called the Gospel of the Nazarenes).

Borden
24th February 2011, 17:19
Well, okay, Jay, I haven't read that. I have my own ideas. I am not an acolyte. I have an active interest in this funny old business we call life, in that I am experiencing one. I am as much a part of the whole as any sandal wearing hippie in all of history. I believe we are all 'God'.

The above paragraph sounds unfriendlier than I intended, I'm sorry. I have to go now and won't be back until about 21:00 GMT, but I will google the passage you mentioned. I am always prepared to wrong, surprised or embarrassed. Thank you.

Borden.

3optic
24th February 2011, 17:34
If you read the whole thing with the right viewpoint.....in a strange way.... it says: "Seek Detachment".

It comes to the paradox of seeking who we really are. is "seeking" in this case the most appropriate word? Maybe "stillness"?

The short answer to the question in the title of this thread, I believe is "no it is not necessary". It sometimes happens that suffering leads to growth but it's not the only method. Certainly not my preference! ;)

Spadrylk
24th February 2011, 17:38
You said that beautifly Charlie! Our lives here on earth are actors in a staged play! We each determine what lessons we need to learn - then help write the script to learn those lessons and that script becomes part of the earth play of life!!! There is no consequence - this is a scripted play written by each and every one of us - some playing the negative - some playing the positive! We are doing a great JOB!!! Don't you think? I think the negatives are doing a hell of a job waking us up - that is what they are supposed to do!!! We have to think about our lives from a different perspective!!! IT IS ALL ABOUT LEARNING - nothing else - anyone taking the extreme in any form does not understand that. We are here learning about who and what we are - its an incredible ride and it is pure genius!

Spadrylk
24th February 2011, 17:56
and I went off topic so thought I would start a new thread to find out how many people think that you have to suffer in life to evolve!
I read the main message in the bubble thingy and was really quite shocked by the sentiment behind it. I think its basically saying that the "Ruling BLoodline Family" want us to be as "Negatively Polarized as possible" And that they want us to experience as much "Violence, War, Hatred, Greed, Control, Enslavement, Genocide, Torture, Moral Degradation, Prostitution, Drugs, all these things and more" so we can evolve as fast as we can, as it part of their plan and that they are doing this from a place of love and light.

I dont know who wrote this and supposing its not a hoax or written by someone mentally ill, to me its the most warped idealogy I have come across.

I have always thought we are born actually pretty much ok in the first instance and if we grow up nurtured and supported and avoid unnecessary suffering ( I dont mean avoiding life experiences like relationships, work challenges, finding out what you want to do in life) but suffering due to say attachment to bad relationships, drugs, or suffering by being too accepting of situations or attitudes, then we can evolve through experiencing the beauty in the world and in the people around us, evolve through the practice of kindness, empathy, love and compassion!

I dont understand the logic of being born pretty much ok, then suffering loads so we evolve so we get back to where we were in the first place when we were born.

Is it all a big scam by the "Ruling BLoodline Family" to keep us down with the promise that its good for us and thats why we are here? And this scam is perpetuated and reinforced by religious institutions and government who say yes to war etc far too easily?

I would say our best retaliation is not to suffer and be happy! What would they do then. . . .

Just a thought,

blue[/QUOTE]

Hi Blue - Have you read Whitley Strieber's 'THE KEY'? He writes about the MASTER OF THE KEY who told him that many people found their mastery in the NAZI death camps - asked if people evolve much quicker in misery - HE STATED - Evolution always responds better in a positive nurturing caring and uplifting environment - IN the extremes of negativity some will evolve quickly - but evolution always happens for many more people without suffering! I agree with you totally - Lets have and be the best experience we can be!!!

Hiram
24th February 2011, 18:13
Whitley Wrote: High deliverance has dark foundations.

Its not necessary to suffer. But One can use suffering to move forward.

There are easier and less painful ways.

greybeard
24th February 2011, 18:15
One sage said
Mankind does not learn by gentle reminders alone.

Unfortunately in my case I had to hit rock bottom through alcoholism in order to lift my mind above my own problems and through the 12 steps of AA seek the help of a Higher Power. I was forced to have enough humility to seek the help of a God of my understanding.
It was and is humbling to see many turn their lives around from an unmanageable state to something of service to others.
Alcoholism is and was a killer disease until the Founder Bill W, an atheist had a spiritual awakening.
The light appeared in the room and flooded into him and that turned his life around and there after the life of millions.

11th step is " Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."


Suffice to say this has worked for me for over 35 years.


Eckart Tolle said that St John of the Cross was the traditional way to evolve spiritually but no longer necessary.
Staying in the Now is enough. The ego cant survive without time.
The ego through its acquisition's traits is the main culprit of our pain. Enough is never enough
Land money POWER.
Chris

Ba-ba-Ra
24th February 2011, 18:23
Hi Blue - Have you read Whitley Strieber's 'THE KEY'? He writes about the MASTER OF THE KEY who told him that many people found their mastery in the NAZI death camps - asked if people evolve much quicker in misery - HE STATED - Evolution always responds better in a positive nurturing caring and uplifting environment - IN the extremes of negativity some will evolve quickly - but evolution always happens for many more people without suffering! I agree with you totally - Lets have and be the best experience we can be!!!

I agree, one can learn through suffering, but one can also learn - more pleasantly - through pleasant experiences.

Some humans tend to bring the pain of an experience forward, instead of the lesson, and therefore lock themselves into suffering by mentally reliving the experience over and over. If we can learn to let go of the pain (which often translates into guilt or fear or anger, etc) and look for the lesson, we will begin to find joy. But here is the rub: our egos don't want us to let go of the pain, because that's part of it's control mechanism, so at first one has to activate their will over the ego. Like anything else, the more you do it, the easier it gets and before you know it - the ego looses it's power.

Charlie Pecos
24th February 2011, 18:46
You said that beautifly Charlie! Our lives here on earth are actors in a staged play! We each determine what lessons we need to learn - then help write the script to learn those lessons and that script becomes part of the earth play of life!!! There is no consequence - this is a scripted play written by each and every one of us - some playing the negative - some playing the positive! We are doing a great JOB!!! Don't you think? I think the negatives are doing a hell of a job waking us up - that is what they are supposed to do!!! We have to think about our lives from a different perspective!!! IT IS ALL ABOUT LEARNING - nothing else - anyone taking the extreme in any form does not understand that. We are here learning about who and what we are - its an incredible ride and it is pure genius!

Yes indeed! "All the world is a stage and we are merely players" What else are we gonna do for eternity? Game on!

truthseekerdan
24th February 2011, 18:49
Hope this video will help many that still suffer...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deq_1lg9Dlo

greybeard
24th February 2011, 18:59
Than ks Dan
Eckhart made a massive diffence in my life. Helped me to understand the ego and in particular "PAIN BODY"
That part is addicted to pain. Attention seeking.
Wants your pain too.
If I cant get noticed by being successful let me be the most miserable one -listen to my story!!!!!!

No wonder his book "The Power of Now"has sold many Millions
His main follow up "A New Earth" has sold over 4 Million
Get on it Laughing
Chris

truthseekerdan
24th February 2011, 19:03
This is taken from Tim Keller's talk at MIT titled "How Could a Good God Allow Suffering? Belief in an Age of Skepticism."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5e9k6aME4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5e9k6aME4

Blue
24th February 2011, 19:04
and I went off topic so thought I would start a new thread to find out how many people think that you have to suffer in life to evolve!
I read the main message in the bubble thingy and was really quite shocked by the sentiment behind it. I think its basically saying that the "Ruling BLoodline Family" want us to be as "Negatively Polarized as possible" And that they want us to experience as much "Violence, War, Hatred, Greed, Control, Enslavement, Genocide, Torture, Moral Degradation, Prostitution, Drugs, all these things and more" so we can evolve as fast as we can, as it part of their plan and that they are doing this from a place of love and light.

I dont know who wrote this and supposing its not a hoax or written by someone mentally ill, to me its the most warped idealogy I have come across.

I have always thought we are born actually pretty much ok in the first instance and if we grow up nurtured and supported and avoid unnecessary suffering ( I dont mean avoiding life experiences like relationships, work challenges, finding out what you want to do in life) but suffering due to say attachment to bad relationships, drugs, or suffering by being too accepting of situations or attitudes, then we can evolve through experiencing the beauty in the world and in the people around us, evolve through the practice of kindness, empathy, love and compassion!

I dont understand the logic of being born pretty much ok, then suffering loads so we evolve so we get back to where we were in the first place when we were born.

Is it all a big scam by the "Ruling BLoodline Family" to keep us down with the promise that its good for us and thats why we are here? And this scam is perpetuated and reinforced by religious institutions and government who say yes to war etc far too easily?

I would say our best retaliation is not to suffer and be happy! What would they do then. . . .

Just a thought,

blue

Hi Blue - Have you read Whitley Strieber's 'THE KEY'? He writes about the MASTER OF THE KEY who told him that many people found their mastery in the NAZI death camps - asked if people evolve much quicker in misery - HE STATED - Evolution always responds better in a positive nurturing caring and uplifting environment - IN the extremes of negativity some will evolve quickly - but evolution always happens for many more people without suffering! I agree with you totally - Lets have and be the best experience we can be!!![/QUOTE]

Hi Spadrylk,

I love that thought, I am so glad we are on the same wavelength! Life is so life-affirming and empowering, even the bad parts, and we are here for such a short time really, so we should just go for it!

king anthony
24th February 2011, 20:01
BTW, King Anthony, is that you in the photo? Because if it is, then you could teach us all quite a bit about will. It's will that got you into that shape, and the suffering was chosen, right? I mean, it was challenge, not suffering? If I get in a fight I want you on my side.

That is a photo of me, however from long ago; I explain in my profile.

Borden
25th February 2011, 09:06
Thanks, king anthony,

You still look pretty tough. 1997 is fourteen years ago. Is it me, or does 1997 seem a lot more recent than that? I'm your age, so I hope you agree with me on this! Tempus fugit.

I've downloaded your book (thank you), but haven't read it yet. I will do soon. I can't imagine someone would write a book about his life unless there'd been a certain amount of suffering involved. Or is it about determination? And if so, what would inspire someone to be determined in the first place? Sticking to the spirit of the thread, I feel that suffering is a path to wisdom, but not the only path. In fact, I would go as far as to say that certain forces would like to marginalise us to that one path. It's not in their interests for the herd to take quicker, happier paths.

Borden.

the_flyingboy
25th February 2011, 13:41
i heard a man say once..."you don't become a sword without going in the fire first".

sjkted
26th February 2011, 02:48
Suffering is an emotional state caused by attachment, not to be confused with pain as in physical pain. There is no need to ever suffer no matter what is happening to you. It is part of the human condition.

For you a Buddhist allegory:

A man walking across a field encounters a tiger. He fled, the tiger chasing after him. Coming to a cliff, he caught hold of a wild vine and swung himself over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above.Terrified, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger had come, waiting to eat him. Two mice, one white and one black, little by little began to gnaw away at the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine in one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted!

--sjkted

dan i el
26th February 2011, 03:38
Very interesting thread, in terms of some of the spiritual premises cited; for my 2 pence, In my humble opinion:

suffering is to empathy what detachment is to sociopathology

de rien
26th February 2011, 03:59
Why not have the whole experience if we are to play the game? There is much to learn from every role. When it is right, it will be time to let go of all the suffering, hatred, fear etc. The time is now and it is growing. If you are suffering, and no longer wish to do so, then be still in your suffering and learn the lesson, hear the message. You create your experience with every thought, word and action. You create the suffering and the Love.

Lord Sidious
26th February 2011, 07:47
If one did not suffer, how would we then understand the beauty of joy?

Sowelu
26th February 2011, 07:56
Adversity is the cause of evolution...
animals developed camoflague to avoid predators,
Thicker hair in colder climates,
More colorful feathers/fur patterns for competitive mating...just to name a few...
And humans different skin pigmentations for varying temperatures..

Blue
26th February 2011, 17:41
i heard a man say once..."you don't become a sword without going in the fire first".

But I dont want to be a sword. . . . . . I understand the quote though, so thanks! I appreciate everyones thoughts on this subject. I guess everyone has their own way of learning and perhaps consciously or subconsciously we choose the way we do it and maybe that depends on our own personal history . . . I just dont like the idea that there may be a group or organisation deciding for us how we learn or evolve, especially if its in a violent way.

king anthony
26th February 2011, 20:38
Is the concept of suffering (here) not attributed to the need to be something more!? Do human beings not have a need to belong to something, such as sports teams, corporate entities, religious groups, careers or (and) to be unique!? Have human beings not created stories to qualify themselves, to give hope/faith, or to justify why!? Has the human mind not been known to complicate the uncomplicated!?

I say, suffering is simply the reality that is (now).

Is not perspective a fundamental standard for understanding!? What of the animals that suffer 'in nature' or by the hands of humankind!? Is their suffering for purpose as it relates to them or is it simply a moment in time felt!?

What of the suffering imposed by the hands of other human beings towards their own kind, are these things not created for the benefit of those who impose, either by chance or design!?

So then what of the suffering imposed by 'other species' both great and small towards each other, or to human beings; is there something more to the suffering then the lack of consideration or unfortunate need!?

Is not believing that human suffering has purpose as it relates to them - to give hope, to comfort, to give meaning!? Is it not arrogance to think that everything has more purpose then what it is!?

sjkted
26th February 2011, 22:40
If one did not suffer, how would we then understand the beauty of joy?

Sadness and suffering are not the same thing,

--sjkted

Lord Sidious
26th February 2011, 22:56
If one did not suffer, how would we then understand the beauty of joy?

Sadness and suffering are not the same thing,

--sjkted

They don't have to be, but more than often, they are related.

aikya
26th February 2011, 23:10
If one did not suffer, how would we then understand the beauty of joy?

Sadness and suffering are not the same thing,

--sjkted

Through joy itself?

sjkted
27th February 2011, 00:25
All suffering is due to maya (illusion). It is caused by thought forms and belief systems that have no place in reality. If you're suffering, it's because you are out of sync with the now and the universe. Suffering is not natural. Release of all emotions is the only natural course of action. Suffering is the act of holding onto or denying oneself the release of emotions.

--sjkted

=[Post Update]=


What of the animals that suffer 'in nature' or by the hands of humankind!? Is their suffering for purpose as it relates to them or is it simply a moment in time felt!?

The animals do not suffer... they experience pain. Pain is caused by physical sensations. Suffering is an emotional state which can be linked to physical pain or a traumatic situation. Suffering causes physical pain to feel much more severe than it is. Animals do not have this excessive emotional baggage that the human folks do thus they do not suffer.

--sjkted

Lifebringer
27th February 2011, 00:41
As in suffer the children for they know not what they do. Sorta fits in with the detachment of reality in capitalism. Everything is about consuming.
Well they've stuffed our minds with bs to suffer through, and lied about any truths we have come across about our origin.
Why teach the experience of deceit, if we won't have to worry about that type of behavior in heaven/universe?
I imaging during the rebellion and fall, certain protections against over trust of those who are not to be trusted, must have been the experience at the time.
Since immortals are timeless, what is in this dimension representing man's concept of the passing of time and measurement of light years, has no meaning in the universe as it turns on it's own time frame as it expands and is created for life.

king anthony
27th February 2011, 02:29
The animals do not suffer... they experience pain. Pain is caused by physical sensations. Suffering is an emotional state which can be linked to physical pain or a traumatic situation. Suffering causes physical pain to feel much more severe than it is. Animals do not have this excessive emotional baggage that the human folks do thus they do not suffer.--sjkted

Is it not human arrogance that puts themselves above all others!? For I say, one does not know those things they have given less to.

Blue
28th February 2011, 12:17
All suffering is due to maya (illusion). It is caused by thought forms and belief systems that have no place in reality. If you're suffering, it's because you are out of sync with the now and the universe. Suffering is not natural. Release of all emotions is the only natural course of action. Suffering is the act of holding onto or denying oneself the release of emotions.

--sjkted



What of the animals that suffer 'in nature' or by the hands of humankind!? Is their suffering for purpose as it relates to them or is it simply a moment in time felt!?

The animals do not suffer... they experience pain. Pain is caused by physical sensations. Suffering is an emotional state which can be linked to physical pain or a traumatic situation. Suffering causes physical pain to feel much more severe than it is. Animals do not have this excessive emotional baggage that the human folks do thus they do not suffer.

--sjkted

Hi sjkted,

Thanks for your post. I definitely agree that a lot of suffering is caused by thought forms and belief systems that imprison people idealogically. But I also think that people suffer through no fault of their own, through wars for example that are either instigated or allow to occur by governments or other more(?) sinister organisations, and thats my bugbear really.

I guess suffering can be seen as physical and emotion pain. I do believe that animals suffer both though - animals are definitely emotional creatures and feel emotions like loss (death of owner), jealousy (of a new baby or new pet), happiness (just watch any dog galloping through a field or on a beach!) and loads of other emotions I am sure! And there are studies that show that the better they are treated and the more they are loved, the more emotionally evolved they become!

=[Post Update]=

Wub
1st March 2011, 16:05
If, as the poet Keats believed, life is a training camp and we're here to learn something relevant to our spiritual progression, then suffering in order to learn makes some sort of sense....its all a bit nihilistic though when you think about it...

sjkted
1st March 2011, 16:40
Thanks for your post. I definitely agree that a lot of suffering is caused by thought forms and belief systems that imprison people idealogically. But I also think that people suffer through no fault of their own, through wars for example that are either instigated or allow to occur by governments or other more(?) sinister organisations, and thats my bugbear really.


Obviously, sh** happens. We don't get to choose the cards we are dealt with, but we get to choose how we deal with them. Suffering is a choice. When one chooses to suffer, one keeps an emotional attachment to whatever the source of pain is. When one releases the attachment, there is no more suffering. It is as simple as that.

Take a look at release methods like the Sedona Method and Emotional Release Therapy as well as some of the forum-type training like est. People can go from a lifetime of suffering on a particular issue to dropping it in a single moment for good. These methods really work. When you learn how all this works and do it for yourself, you see how it's not needed for our development and how it isn't possible for animals to be suffering.

--sjkted