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skippy
24th February 2011, 16:04
Sometimes, we are keen to blaim others. It's not me, it's the other. We mold our daily lives to what Time expects us to do. But what about ourselves? Are we in control? Are we actors in all this? A thread on our own role and on the question about human nature. What's your thought on this?

wop91_Gvwos

crosby
24th February 2011, 16:08
i think as we look around ourselves, at this time, we indeed do see that we are the root of all of the problems that exist. i'm so glad that pa exists (and other forums too) so that we can come together and change this. we can strive too reach for ultimate peace and love.
regards, corson

Limor Wolf
24th February 2011, 18:17
There are two sides to this coin skippy,isnt it?

i agree with Jung when he is saying:"we know nothing on man.far too little"

but, to say that-"man is the origin of all coming evil" wel,'all' is a little bit harsh in my opinion.

from a wider perspective,we are now aware that we were heavilly manipulated since the dawn of our existance and parts of our characteristic and our reality were hidden from us.
for instance,what would have happen if we live our lives knowing that we are a soul inhabitting a body and that there is no actuall death... all our perspectives,our behaviors towords one another,our thoughts would have changed.
if we take the fear of death that exist in us-earth inhabitant almost 24-7 out, that might get a lot of pressure off us and allow our focus to be more on our inside than on the outside ,the outcome could be good. this kind of information was withheld from us ,thats not our fault.

on the other hand,half of this equation is about self responsibility and here we are failing terribly.
it seems that the floor is always at a curve but the dancers are never to blame..
there is a tendeancy for us humans,to act without too much thinking and on impulsive (reptelian side of the brain) and that cause us some trouble.we also dont think at all that we can be in controll.

so,i would like to rephrase Jong's words from the start and say that "To live on autopilot,is the origin of all evil,but to be aware is the solution."

skippy
24th February 2011, 18:26
תודה רבה Limor!

Thanks for your spontaneous reaction. Appreciate!

Skippy.

Operator
24th February 2011, 18:36
Besides ... there is a program running to teach the populous how to condemn itself: kill yourselves you're only polluting the world here.

First they tied our hands on our back ... and then claimed we're powerless. Guess what .... even with our hands on our back we still have more power :whoo:

skippy
24th February 2011, 18:54
I'm not sure whether there are planned programs for this. I'm just posing questions. If all the "sociopaths" in the world, leave tomorrow this planet, will that change anything on earth? I'm worried about the fact that people are not willing or are incapable to think for themselves. I agree with Limor that ignorance or - to live on autopilot - maybe the origin of all evil. But what's needed to wake-up our fellow-man? So far so good...

http://acidulee.canalblog.com/images/eva.jpg

skippy
24th February 2011, 19:27
RBoWABk64xQ

Operator
24th February 2011, 19:53
I'm not sure whether there are planned programs for this. I'm just posing questions. If all the "sociopaths" in the world, leave tomorrow this planet, will that change anything on earth? I'm worried about the fact that people are not willing or are incapable to think for themselves. I agree with Limor that ignorance or - to live on autopilot - maybe the origin of all evil. But what's needed to wake-up our fellow-man? So far so good...


I had some similar thoughts along those lines recently ...
A few centuries ago the world was full of slavery (still going on today but in another form ... :madgrin:). They captured their slaves and brought them to another part in the world.
Why not capture them closer to where they were 'used' (sorry for the term) ? Because there would be a better chance for the slaves in case they would run away.
So in some cases the slaves ran away but soon came to the conclusion that (part of) their families were still not free or far away.
But not only that ... they now had no master that gave them food and a roof overhead. So many returned by themselves after a while.

I couldn't help but think that this was the history of mankind ... we were created as slave race. And somehow our masters vanished from this planet. We were left behind, alone.
Now we had to figure out how to become our own masters ... but the 'sociopaths' filled the gap quickly, so they became the new alternative masters.

Until today a big part of mankind still thinks we need to be governed by masters and government ... but slowly a bigger and bigger group wakes up, realizing that everyone
should govern him/herself and each individual is as good as all of mankind. One can represent all and all should be regarded as one.
That's why UFO's will never 'land on the white house lawn', ET's will never ask 'Bring me to your leader' and disclosure will come from us and not form any government whatsoever.

Chicodoodoo
24th February 2011, 20:00
The origin of evil is a very important question. I would say it is an absolutely fundamental question. I have been pursuing this question all my life.

Evil comes from humans (excluding ETs or other outside influences for the moment). That does not mean humans are evil! Some of them are, but many are not. It is a continuum, as with any characteristic of a population. There is potential evil in all of us, to some degree. Those with larger degrees are more likely to manifest evil.

The current result of my long investigation into evil is that sociopaths are the root of the problem. Among humans, they have the greatest potential for evil, and they manifest that potential with the greatest frequency.

As I learn more, that conclusion could change, but it is a remarkably stable one so far. Expanding into ETs and other outside influences, I can see variations of the same scenario. ET races with very sociopathic characteristics towards other life forms (but not their own) could easily be a stable evolutionary possibility. Nature will eventually try all possibilities and let the dice fall where they may.

lake
24th February 2011, 20:34
I feel that it is nessasary to go a bit deeper,

What is evil, is the use of another species for food evil, is the use of a species that turns towards sunlight and requires water ( also love some my say) evil?

If you say that the use of others, of a preconceived lesser status, for food is ok then the use by a human of a preconceived lesser status human must also be ok?

Does the creation that we right now exist in consider such a thing as evil?

gary

skippy
24th February 2011, 20:36
I'm afraid that we've a long and painfull way to go ... The fact that mankind still thinks that governments and masters are needed, may exactly be the reason why sociopaths can continue to execute their evil plans. Are humans therefore evil, or as you said Chicodoodoo, some of them are, but many are not. The problem is that we lend ourselves for evil purposes or as Jung said evil is done through us and we are pityfully unaware of it.

Bless, Skippy.

skippy
25th February 2011, 17:53
Is mankind creating his own Golem? Like in the movie of Frankenstein, the Golem takes revenge on his creator for an undefined reason. The creature becomes incontrollable and the formula to deactivate the monster seems to be lost. At a global level, aren't we doing the same thing through our collective actions? Is it correct that we are losing more and more the control on what's going on in our modern world or where we never in control? What is this thing that is afffronting us in an elementary indepedence and that is taking away our liberties? Your answers are appreciated to better understand the subject at hand.

uwREWo_pyn4

Celine
25th February 2011, 17:55
This (the video)...IMHO...is part of an organized attempt to make us feel shame for being human.


They failed, with me.



Thank you for sharing this with us..keeping the mirror well aimed is very important in this process.

PathWalker
25th February 2011, 18:20
Thanks you skippy for this important thread.
There energy is better balanced then the thread about the sociopath humanity.

I wish to answer at 3 stages:
1. Definition of evil / good
2. Natural wave of destruction and renovation
3. Human morals and aspects of judgment.
In order to lead reader into higher perspective. So please bear with me, till the end.


1. Definition of evil / good

Evil is defined as opposite to good. And good is defined as desired behavior or situation. The desire is the essence of the subject.

Since it is all about judgmental attitude. Judgmental attitude is subjective and requires a point of reference. This very abstract statement requires concrete example.
Consider the current uprising in Libya, is it good or evil?
Assuming it result with liberation to the people. Is liberation good or evil?
Assuming it will grow into anarchy and tribal wars, is it good or evil?
Assuming it will create anarchy Somalia style, is it good or evil?
All answers depends on your side and your values.
For instance if you were with TPTB all answers are good, if you were local Libyan whatever the answers would depends on your local situation.

The point is that in order to make a decision (evil good), you need to consult your "human" values. Different human groups (societies) have different moral values. It is also said that pornography is a matter of geography.
Said that, what about some global values of compassion,team work and love. Anthropological science tries to explain this values as critical to the survivable of the young. Team work is required to hunt and defend the group. As such the team is encouraging its members to display those behaviors that support the group (altruism), and discourage the behavior that is anti social (dishonest). This is how moral values evolved.

Yet there are some behaviors that are on the boundary of social behavior and desired on specific situations. For example:
Aggression: desired for survival and fighting invaders.
Dominance: lead the team in a critical situation.
Bravery: self sacrifice for the benefit of the team.
These boundary social behavior, generate structure into "primitive" societies and assign roles to team members with distinguished inclination toward a specific behavior. There are also personal attributes that are encouraged and used for personal and team (wisdom, charity, cunning, curiosity...).
In addition there is also the genetic, nutrition and environment that effect the behavior of the team members.

In one sentence, good/evil morals are defined by the society. And defined by the geography.

2. Natural wave of destruction and growth

In nature there are cycles of growth and death. Each part promotes the next. For example, death of a pray bring life to the carnivorous. Death of old trees feed the soil with nutrients. Forest fires allow hard pine cones to germinate its seeds.
The death process nurture the growth of the next cycle. The growth is stopped by aging and scarcity to allow death. This cycle promote bio diversity and adaptability.

In human perspective growth is good death is bad. Let me remind you that cancer is unregulated growth, aging is bad, maturity is good, death is sad, birth is happy. We can find many social situation were: birth is sad, death is blessing.

In nature there are cycles that balance each other and promote the progress of the whole species regardless of the individual member.
Humans have the ability to introspect and value/judge situations. While animals do not judge, they observe for danger and react accordingly.

In nature there is always the opportunities and danger in any situation. If a person is asked what kind of animal would you like to be. Every each animal has its benefits and dangers (lion, eagle, elephant, snake, dolphin...).
Yet we judge some animals for bad behaviors. While they are serving in the death/growth cycles. The dynamics is required and is part of nature. Humans do not like change, change is associated with insecurity (what about opportunity).

The point here, is that in nature there are no moral values, but cycles of change. The survival of species and bio diversity.
3. Human morals and aspects of judgment.

We are human, judge pain as bad. Pleasant as good. No matter what is the source (remember animals do not judge, they react). Pain inflicting behavior is evil, pleasure inducting or pain reduction is good.
Pain and pleasure are required to experience life.
In order to evolve and learn survival we must avoid the pain and attract the pleasure. We cannot survive without pain. And we could not appreciate pleasure or health without the pain and illness.

As humans, we are in the cycles or nature, we are prayed, herded, cultured and groomed. By TPTB. Is that good or evil?
We need to experience the pleasure and the pain in order to grow. Is that evil or good?

Without referring to spiritual teaching (yet), we need both pain and pleasure and we grow by testing our limitations.
We need the limitation (physical, liberty, economic, education...) in order to appreciate and learn the value of each limitation.
A wise person once said that liberty is defined by oppression. I would say freedom is defined by limitation. And we need both. In order to appreciate each.

Now to the spiritual part: If you live your life with the knowledge of reincarnation and Karma. Suffer is understood and the role of evil is valued. Although not accepted socially.

Only the very awakened are beyond judgment of good and evil. The unlighted face evil with the same serenity as the good.
There is Buddhist story about a master monk to be executed by a Chinese soldier. The monk is sitting motionless in lotus posture as the invaders to loot and destroy the monastery. The soldier threaten the monk, "I really do not care to remove your head in a sec", the monk replied. "I really do not care if you remove my head." The story end is unknown to me. Is it evil? It is beautiful?


To make all story short, evil, goodness, beauty, pleasure, pain. Are all aspects of human life. Required for survival and spiritual growth.
Only the enlighted master can see beyond the duality. I can only speculated and try to understand with the intellect.

Carmody
25th February 2011, 18:24
there are very very important points in the 'who's driving the dreambus?' documentary. I should think that it is required viewing.

RedeZra
25th February 2011, 18:33
perhaps Creation comes with a catch

an inherent corruption so to speak


nothing in nature stays fresh forever


there seems to be a natural retardation

with sociopaths in the front whipping it on


ever escalating into deeper degeneration


til God says 'Enough is Enough'


and Creates again

all new and fresh

vibrations
25th February 2011, 18:40
I agree with what old master Jung said.
From my perspective I have answers why the people are evil. There is always fear of.....you name it. And if the person who is afraid (not to be able to eat or not to reach this political position) is too much egoistic too see the others around him as equals, than he does any kind of damage. The aperture of a mind leads to the tolerance and altruism. So it is a question of development. And right now in our planet there are so many souls than maybe never before. And from so many levels of consciousness, than maybe never before. Some of them came to teach as tolerance, solidarity, how to share.... and when we respond with violence it's just a sign we are not ready yet to make a quantum leap.

Talking about sociopaths like some other species. Sociopath is just a label for something very primitive (reptilian behavior if you want) undeveloped or damaged in childhood to the level that the brain can’t process difference between good and bad. They have to be removed from society, but treated.
So, the question is how do we remove a 99% of politicians and army personal from society?

skippy
25th February 2011, 19:01
http://www.globalgallery.com/prod_images/600/esc-e55.jpg
Escher (1946)

Chicodoodoo
25th February 2011, 19:43
If we accept that good and evil are products of human perspective, then the rough dividing line for deciding what is good and what is evil is the Golden Rule. Expressed properly in its negative form, it is "Do not do to others what you would not like them to do to you."

"Others" refers to other humans. This dividing line is subjective because it depends on what a human likes. It assumes that all humans like more or less the same things, which is usually true. But there is variation in what humans like, and that can cause some difficulty in drawing a fixed dividing line between good and evil. Perhaps a variation of the Golden Rule might read "Do not do to others what those others would not like you to do to them."

It's easy to see where problems arise. Sociopaths have no empathy, so they don't relate well to what others are feeling, and they don't care (a double whammy). So unless those with empathy (non-sociopaths) exert some control on the sociopaths, evil runs amok. And if sociopaths dominate the leadership positions of the world without the non-sociopaths being aware of it, you get a world of expanding evil. Sound familiar?

skippy
25th February 2011, 19:50
VGfykyQ0_So
Rostropovich playing Bach in Vézelay (FR)

skippy
26th February 2011, 09:34
Martin Buber on Modern Man

“Der Mensch vermag die durch ihn selbst entstandene Welt nicht mehr zu bewältigen; sie wird stärker als er, sie macht sie von ihm frei, sie steht ihm in einer elementaren Unabhängigkeit gegenüber, und er weiß Das Wort nicht mehr, das den Golem, der er geschaffen hat, bannen und unschädlich zu machen könnte”

Henri Bergson on the Human Mind

“Dans ce corps démesurément grossi, l’âme reste ce qu’elle était, trop petite maintenant pour le remplir, trop faible pour le diriger. D’où le vide entre lui et elle. D’où les redoutables problèmes sociaux, politiques, internationaux, qui sont autant de définitions de ce vide et qui, pour le combler, provoquent aujourd’hui tant d’efforts désordonnés et inefficaces : il y faudrait de nouvelles réserves d’énergie potentielle, cette fois morale. Ne nous bornons donc pas à dire, comme nous le faisions plus haut, que la mystique appelle la mécanique. Ajoutons que le corps agrandi attend un supplément d’âme, et que la mécanique exigerait une mystique.”

Heidegger on technology

“Das Wesen der Technik stellt der Mensch unter einer Macht die ihn herausfordert und der gegenüber er nicht mehr frei ist.”

Steph
26th February 2011, 10:57
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

Mouse x

Caterpillars Lens
26th February 2011, 11:03
hello!
:)
from lighter note:

PM6ya7wTb58

Greetings!
CL

PathWalker
26th February 2011, 11:06
is too much egoistic too see the others around him as equals, than he does any kind of damage. The aperture of a mind leads to the tolerance and altruism.

Thinking that we are all equal and be treated as equal might lead the socialist way of thinking.
Which is another Utopian model for control structure.

We are each, unique, and distinguished sacred soul. We treat each other with good intention, and compassion. Conflicts are essential for growth.

Each very individual is in different state of evolution, and requires/provides a unique service to the others. The child is not equal to the elderly, and the sick is not equal to the healthy.
Egoism and sociopath behavior is another lesson we need to learn. By confronting reflections of ourselves.
If we recognize an egoistic behavior, that is an indicator that we posses this attribute.

PathWalker
26th February 2011, 11:10
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

Mouse x

This knowing, is early childhood programming/culturing/teaching. Most of the early childhood programming is implicit and and unintentional.
The path of awakening is the process of reprogramming/relearning our values.

Steph
26th February 2011, 11:22
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

Mouse x

This knowing, is early childhood programming/culturing/teaching. Most of the early childhood programming is implicit and and unintentional.
The path of awakening is the process of reprogramming/relearning our values.

Lol indeed, I'm willing to accept that PathWalker. I'm going to go and think about that for a while :)

ponda
26th February 2011, 11:27
If you were going to ascend to a positive influenced environment then possibly the best experience that you could have prior to ascending would be to experience life in a negative influenced environment.This is IMHO why the world is the way that it is.We have been given a chance to learn from this negative environment so as to grow before moving on and up.

cheers

PathWalker
26th February 2011, 11:53
If you were going to ascend to a positive influenced environment then possibly the best experience that you could have prior to ascending would be to experience life in a negative influenced environment.This is IMHO why the world is the way that it is.We have been given a chance to learn from this negative environment so as to grow before moving on and up.

cheers

Thanks you, this observation is personal. Positive or negative is subjective to moral values and STS/STO bias.
Every each of us, find her/his lessons and reflection on its own unique path.
Some see it as unjust, (war, famine, disasters...) but when we expand the awareness. We learn to accept that all is perfect and part of a complete grand plan.

It is a virtual reality game We play to evolve. We need players in all roles. Even the sociopaths and the pedophiles.

DarkOne
26th February 2011, 12:15
IMHO - I think we place ourselves to highly in the order of things...as i child I would live/play in the woods and turned to my friend once and said if we learnt more about these woods we would progress so far...I was 5 maybe 6. My point is that recently I learnt that the Mushrooms root network will transport nutrients to sick trees. A chimpanzee knows 100 plants to heal themselves - if they have a stomach parasite they will fast , wonder of alone and suck (not eat a leaf), on getting the right leaf they will then eat and cure themselves - dogs chew grass and throw up... My point is that man is obsessed with himself and not the bigger picture the world we live in..An old photo in a pub I used to drink in showed my local town as a hive of activity with animals running amok every where.. now the street is empty of animals and the weekends are filled with violence...why? Perhaps we miss the animals - the mayhem they caused by running of squawking etc. caused humans to work together or laugh at the mayhem..now that has gone and all we have are other humans...and this leads to boredom/loneliness in a crowd and "evil"...do you see my point...Oh yes Indians before taking medicine plants would say ask the plant a day before what you need then go pick it...science has shown it takes 24 hours for active ingredients to peak...how did they know how to make Ayuascha (2 different plants that enable oral activation of DMT). When asked an old lady said the lightning told her...Evil is a man made creation nature is not...

ponda
26th February 2011, 12:42
Thanks you, this observation is personal. Positive or negative is subjective to moral values and STS/STO bias.
Every each of us, find her/his lessons and reflection on its own unique path.
Some see it as unjust, (war, famine, disasters...) but when we expand the awareness. We learn to accept that all is perfect and part of a complete grand plan.

It is a virtual reality game We play to evolve. We need players in all roles. Even the sociopaths and the pedophiles.


Yeah i agree that the whole thing is most likely very complex.Not everyone would probably be on a positive path.

Some people have postulated that people like sociopaths might not have a soul as such and just be sort of back ground role playing characters etc.I don't know about this but i treat everyone as having a soul but anything could be possible.

cheers

RedeZra
26th February 2011, 15:57
the Mayan the Greek the Hindu speak of a Cycle of Ages

where the quality of human life becomes progressively worse with each passing cosmic time cycle

the understanding is that we are now close to righteous rock bottom before the tip


there is a force against the turn of the tide but it is a lost cause as it is up against God

skippy
26th February 2011, 19:28
(autoportrait - Hyronimus Bosch - 1450-1516)

http://rolfgross.dreamhosters.com/Bosch-GE/PGardenRightCenterFace.jpg

skippy
26th February 2011, 20:04
Mircea Eliade: Without God, everthing is dust
2ofkZK1VLeA

dan33
27th February 2011, 02:44
It is a virtual reality game We play to evolve. We need players in all roles. Even the sociopaths and the pedophiles.[/QUOTE]

The Universe like a big Theatre. We act in a huge play that we're very deep immersed in.
Let's play a game and be emotionless for a moment. Change Good and Evil into a mathematical concept, like sound frequencies. A string resonates building a series of harmonics, some are "low" and some "high". When you're listening to music, the low ones you'll perceive like the bass or drums, and the high... whatever. Every instrument needs all the others. That can be "sounds" naive. And I'm aware of that, and the thread stills with the same problem. After all, the Universe it's an endless wave of frequencies. ;)

Thanks pathwalker.
Thanks skippy for your thread.

I hope you all understand my "english";)

Thank you all. ...and my character bows and leaves the stage.;)

1lYRoF0PYVs

Chicodoodoo
27th February 2011, 02:51
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

If sociopaths in high places agreed, we'd be home free. Unfortunately, they don't think like you or I do.

Chicodoodoo
27th February 2011, 03:19
Mircea Eliade: Without God, everthing is dust

As I see it, we could be without God, and everything is not dust. But I like Monsieur Eliade anyway, despite his faulty reasoning.

dan33
27th February 2011, 04:01
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

If sociopaths in high places agreed, we'd be home free. Unfortunately, they don't think like you or I do.

Hi Chicodoodoo, what do you think about the "Cassiopaean Experiment" on sociopaths and organic portals?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_organicportals00.htm

http://www.montalk.net/misc/62

Greetings Daniel

Chicodoodoo
27th February 2011, 07:35
Hi Chicodoodoo, what do you think about the "Cassiopaean Experiment" on sociopaths and organic portals?

Thanks, Daniel. I had not seen these sites before, or this material.

To me, it looks like something religion is often guilty of -- explanation building. We basically have a phenomenon that we can't adequately explain to our own satisfaction (the sociopath/non-sociopath distinction), so we go on a fishing expedition looking for explanations that will set our minds at ease. Any explanation, no matter how convoluted or tenuous, brings us greater satisfaction than admitting that we don't know. It's an unfortunate human characteristic, and that's what it looks like to me is occurring at these two sites. I prefer simply saying "I don't know."

Steph
27th February 2011, 09:23
I personally think we are born "knowing" inherently what is "right" and what is "wrong". It boils down to "harm no-one".

If sociopaths in high places agreed, we'd be home free. Unfortunately, they don't think like you or I do.

*nods her head*

So true Chico, it's my understanding that a sociapath has no empathy but are they born that way? Or are they just a product of their environment? A lack of love or empathy as a very young child can lead to some very serious wiring issues. Damn, I need to go read that sociapath thread now and that's another can of worms lol

Mouse x

skippy
27th February 2011, 11:14
Let's take a moment to sum-up and summarize. First, thanks for your answers and for sharing your insights. Your various contributions are needed to get a hand on this very complex subject matter.


the Mayan the Greek the Hindu speak of a Cycle of Ages where the quality of human life becomes progressively worse with each passing cosmic time cycle the understanding is that we are now close to righteous rock bottom before the tip

I agree with RedeZra that we are in a final "iron" age before the big clean-up. What this end-time event will be or look like, I've absolutely no idea.


It's easy to see where problems arise. Sociopaths have no empathy, so they don't relate well to what others are feeling, and they don't care..

I'm aware that the world is governed by people, that don't care. I agree with Limor that we were manipulated since the dawn of our existence and that parts of our characteristic and our reality were hidden from us. So question, why would someone do that; is there a link? Are "sociapaths" just without a brain or a soul or are they acting as they do, because they know? Are they aware of some ancient knowledge on civilizations getting lost in cycles of time? For the moment, I tend to believe that everyone has a soul and that anything could be possible either good and bad.



i think as we look around ourselves, at this time, we indeed do see that we are the root of all of the problems that exist. i'm so glad that pa exists (and other forums too) so that we can come together and change this. we can strive too reach for ultimate peace and love.

As Corson, I'm delighted to be part of this community. Project Avalon is a wonderful group of people, showing human dignity, values, thruth, and resistance on a daily basis. At a spiritual level, I think a change or breakthrough is possible at any time, at any moment. As long as true human beings are around, love will do miracles.

Best, skippy.

dan33
28th February 2011, 03:06
Hi Chicodoodoo, what do you think about the "Cassiopaean Experiment" on sociopaths and organic portals?

Thanks, Daniel. I had not seen these sites before, or this material.

To me, it looks like something religion is often guilty of -- explanation building. We basically have a phenomenon that we can't adequately explain to our own satisfaction (the sociopath/non-sociopath distinction), so we go on a fishing expedition looking for explanations that will set our minds at ease. Any explanation, no matter how convoluted or tenuous, brings us greater satisfaction than admitting that we don't know. It's an unfortunate human characteristic, and that's what it looks like to me is occurring at these two sites. I prefer simply saying "I don't know."

Thanks to you Chicodoodoo. Your answer is straight, with no "bends". ;)
The concept of guilty i know from first hand. I've studied on a religious school, catholic + opus dei (a very strong cocktail, it could knockout any human being).
Feeling guilty could be a heavy stone over you, like the sword of Damocles. Feeling guilty, also uprise and creates the negativity thats in you or transforms a neutral energy to the "left" side. I think it's the second one. But... "i don't know";)

Just imagine if i would said on confession -"Father i've committed sins. I've masturbated watching a picture of the holy mary" ;)

Your Quote it's great It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.

Your avatar or picture... you're very serious. I've think twice to send you a post.
I though - "this guy will make a joke with my naive post"

Thanks again.

Best, Daniel

skippy
28th February 2011, 07:00
http://www.letarot.com/jean-dodal/images/scan-web-new/pandu-web.jpg

TimelessDimensions
28th February 2011, 07:46
Sometimes, we are keen to blaim others. It's not me, it's the other. We mold our daily lives to what Time expects us to do. But what about ourselves? Are we in control? Are we actors in all this? A thread on our own role and on the question about human nature. What's your thought on this?

wop91_Gvwos


You obviously haven't watched any of the three Zeitgeist documentaries.

skippy
6th March 2011, 21:54
You obviously haven't watched any of the three Zeitgeist documentaries.

No that's correct; if I have some time, I'll watch it. Thanks TimelessDimensions !

PathWalker
11th March 2011, 08:29
The positive and negative polarization. Are required in order to identify them.
Notice then your own personal negative/positive morals are geographical and cultural.
"Pornography is a matter of geography"

We need the evil and harmful, while we need the grace and healing. We appreciate and learn to be in each side as we grow. We are not 100% on either side.

Once long ago, a spiritual teacher asked us the following polarizing questions:
1. What will you stand against?
2. What will you never tolerate?
3. What is bad?

As each of us gave her/his answers, we discussed and learned that in each statement a person make. She/he can find themselves in doing exactly the opposite and having very good moral excuse for doing harmful actions. Always in defense of something.

So the seed of all evil is the quest for being morally polarized. The sprout of all evil is personal awakening and recognizing the game of polarity.

skippy
25th March 2011, 02:47
The enemy is us..

-23kmhc3P8U

HURRITT ENYETO
25th March 2011, 03:14
People have always sought to lay the blame for the ills of the World at somebody's door.
Who better to take the rap than the Devil (a.k.a Satan, Lucifer, beelzebub, Belial, Exu and others)became the scapegoat (pun intended)for all the mishaps and evils that befell mankind, the universal impression of the Devil was one of a blackened beast with horns, tail, and cloven hooves.

Down the century's, folk law, literature, and art have helped to broaden the view, but the classic Devil image is hard to shift.
What if the Devil dwells within and not without?

Chicodoodoo
25th March 2011, 03:22
People have always sought to lay the blame for the ills of the World at somebody's door.
Who better to take the rap than the Devil (a.k.a Satan, Lucifer, beelzebub, Belial, Exu and others)

All evil on this planet can be traced back to the individuals or groups of individuals that are responsible for it. Blaming it on the Devil just allows the guilty parties to get away and do more evil.

Perhaps we have just identified the true problem.

skippy
25th March 2011, 03:32
People have always sought to lay the blame for the ills of the World at somebody's door.
Who better to take the rap than the Devil (a.k.a Satan, Lucifer, beelzebub, Belial, Exu and others)

All evil on this planet can be traced back to the individuals or groups of individuals that are responsible for it. Blaming it on the Devil just allows the guilty parties to get away and do more evil.

Perhaps we have just identified the true problem.

The devil is us

http://www.letarot.com/jean-dodal/images/scan-web-new/diable-web.jpg

Chicodoodoo
25th March 2011, 03:40
The devil is us

And some are much, much more responsible than others. Like the organized sociopaths, for instance.

skippy
25th March 2011, 03:47
It's not that we can't handle the truth. It's that they can't handle us if we know the truth.

shiva777
25th March 2011, 03:52
now you have to define what "us" is..who are you really?..could it be that you are a mix of many ET genetics and some of those genetics may have DNA distortions that block TRUE connection to your source?....what makes up our psyche and what is "evil " reaLLY..ISN'T IT JUST IGNORANCE...ignorance that stems from disconnection from unconditional love/Source...such BIG issues that would require thick books to even come close to having a really worthy discussion about...do you think that if you had a direct connection to Source and TRUE UNITY,you would do anything "evil"?...isn't evil just a manifestation of seperation/illusion?..

one of the biggest lies is that we need evil to know what good is...no we don't..we entered a game where we knew what good was and we wanted to play with that good,we allowed for the possibility of things FALLING into a lower polarity since we agreed to "freewill"..

this turns almost all new agey and religious reasoning on it's head...just consider the possibility that this may be true..read,think

http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%20in%20Creation%20-%20July%202007.pdf

SUCH BIG ISSUES

Chicodoodoo
25th March 2011, 04:17
now you have to define what "us" is..who are you really?..could it be that you are a mix of many ET genetics and some of those genetics may have DNA distortions that block TRUE connection to your source?

My momma didn't sleep with any alien! Or did she.....

Yes, you definitely have to determine what it is about us that causes evil. Most of us do not do evil things. A few of us do really evil things. What is the difference? It's already been shown that psychological differences that are gene-based and inherited can produce an individual that is highly prone to non-empathetic acts that most would call evil. Could these gene variations be due to the addition of ET genes into the human gene pool? I would not dismiss it.


what is "evil " reaLLY..ISN'T IT JUST IGNORANCE...ignorance that stems from disconnection from unconditional love/Source

It's usually not ignorance. Saying it is disconnection from unconditional love or Source is just grasping for explanations.


one of the biggest lies is that we need evil to know what good is...no we don't..

I certainly agree with you there.


SUCH BIG ISSUES

Huge.

Tenzin
25th March 2011, 04:40
I believe as long as one causes hurt to others for one's own gain in mind, may it be directly or indirectly, it is evil. I am pretty sure not only humans will agree with that.

Right/Wrong, Good/Evil, ultimately, is a conditioned concept that exists in duality of subjective degree in any context, isn't it?

As for how it arises, I prefer to look at it this way: Senses -> Feelings/Emotions -> Craving. Conditioned! And when not kept in check, we look for more, and that's when so called evil sets in; where there is no more balance. We thus shift to the other extreme and we take advantage of others. ~(O.O)~ * thunder rolls in the backdrop *

Tenzin
25th March 2011, 04:47
I believe as long as one causes hurt to others for one's own gain in mind, may it be directly or indirectly, it is evil. I am pretty sure not only humans will agree with that.

Right/Wrong, Good/Evil, ultimately, is a conditioned concept that exists in duality of subjective degree in any context, isn't it?

As for how it arises, I prefer to look at it this way: Senses -> Feelings/Emotions -> Craving. Conditioned! And when not kept in check, we look for more, and that's when so called evil sets in; where there is no more balance. We thus shift to the other extreme and we take advantage of others. ~(O.O)~ * thunder rolls in the backdrop *

Would like to add that evil probably tend to set in when we lose touch with our heart/oneness/source and start treating others as a separate entity, because we feel they do not have the same feelings we experience.

Tangri
25th March 2011, 08:04
We are the origin of all coming evil
Most of human kind it could be acceptable. If human kind did not have any filtered men/women with in it, it wouldn't be any hope.

Humans is ready and willing to serve higher authorities in return for recognition, wealth and sub-over statue, for lower being. They can do anything which most ETs might not stand as a witness.

They can kill, torture, suppress, destroy to every living thing for recognition , some times just for fun.
Every human has it's dark side and light side within. If they can be aware of their savageness and stop it when it urges ,there is a hope.
Do not scare of visitors from out of space, elites and disasters coming to be witnessed, be aware of dark sided humans. if they are frightened, inevitable or angry their capabilities are limitless.
I am not worry about losing my life during catastrophic changes, my only concern is, be survived and seeking other's mercy.
Only hope to teach as much as people to love, especially compassion as a it's most important part of it.

BowMan
25th March 2011, 08:29
I went over to my neighbours house the other day and of course our conversation turned to the state of the world. We're not far from Christchurch and my wifes family were down staying with us to escape the affected area.
Japan had just gotten nuclear to our shock and awe on watching on tv.
She (my neighbour) turned and said 'you know a lot of people will leave soon (ie die) because they just haven't signed up before they came here for what's coming next'...
The world will change. Some came to experience the world as it was. And some to experience the change. Some more to experience what it will be.

oceanz
25th March 2011, 09:56
If the origin of all evil is man then the reverse must also be true that the origin of all happiness comes from man.

Evil is the balance of good.

Is it humans destiny/purpose to try and walk the path in the centre of these polarities and other opposites (e.g joy is the balance of sadness)?

Why do humans die - is it so we are forced to experience grief/sadness so we know where the centre is between joy and sadness? Can this then be applied to good and evil where a physical response is required (i.e warm fuzzies or cold prickly sensations) so we know where the centre is before we can even understand language.

Is evil confined to man, given that jealousy could be considered an evil trait that many animals experience (e.g wanting to be the 'leader of the pack').

Are socialopaths born with their brain wired differently so they do not experience physical sensations to determine what is good or evil?

If one were to live in isolation their entire life would they know the difference between good and evil? One could only assume yes as that is why we were born with physical reactions to good and evil so that in the absence of language we do not have to be told what forms the basis for our moral compass.

Are these physical sensations of good and evil like 'reflex' actions that babies are born with? (e.g 'moro relex' where if a baby is frightened/startled they will fling their arms out before embracing themselves tightly). As with most of the reflexes that babies are born with most disappear over time...would it then be safe to assume that without guidance from society the warm fuzzy feeling of doing good might not have been encouraged and thus like other reflexes dissappear over time if one can find no use for it?

Tangri
25th March 2011, 23:40
If the origin of all evil is man then the reverse must also be true that the origin of all happiness comes from man.

Evil is the balance of good.

Is it humans destiny/purpose to try and walk the path in the centre of these polarities and other opposites (e.g joy is the balance of sadness)?

Why do humans die - is it so we are forced to experience grief/sadness so we know where the centre is between joy and sadness? Can this then be applied to good and evil where a physical response is required (i.e warm fuzzies or cold prickly sensations) so we know where the centre is before we can even understand language.

Is evil confined to man, given that jealousy could be considered an evil trait that many animals experience (e.g wanting to be the 'leader of the pack').

Are socialopaths born with their brain wired differently so they do not experience physical sensations to determine what is good or evil?

If one were to live in isolation their entire life would they know the difference between good and evil? One could only assume yes as that is why we were born with physical reactions to good and evil so that in the absence of language we do not have to be told what forms the basis for our moral compass.

Are these physical sensations of good and evil like 'reflex' actions that babies are born with? (e.g 'moro relex' where if a baby is frightened/startled they will fling their arms out before embracing themselves tightly). As with most of the reflexes that babies are born with most disappear over time...would it then be safe to assume that without guidance from society the warm fuzzy feeling of doing good might not have been encouraged and thus like other reflexes dissappear over time if one can find no use for it?

I do not think babies and children have any potential dark side. They develop it when they figure it their individuality.

Chicodoodoo
26th March 2011, 06:22
Evil is the balance of good.

Is it humans destiny/purpose to try and walk the path in the centre of these polarities and other opposites (e.g joy is the balance of sadness)?


It really is not correct to think of good and evil as "polarities". They are simply descriptions for a given state, like clean and dirty. There is no fixed mid-point between the two, just as there is no real limit to their ranges. They are also subjective, meaning in the eye of the beholder. There is no balance between them, i.e. just because something is clean doesn't mean something similar somewhere else has to be dirty.

So many people seem to think there is a "duality" to our world simply because there is this descriptive quality to our language and our way of thinking. They claim we need to transcend this dualistic nature in order to evolve "spiritually". I think this idea is absurd. All we have to do is decide if we want to make things cleaner or dirtier, better or worse. And once we've decided, we need to make it so. That is the way to evolve.

TimelessDimensions
26th March 2011, 06:57
We always had the choice -

A. Philosophy of Separateness -> Fear -> Scarcity -> Aggression -> Possession(s)

OR

B. Philosophy of Unity / All is One -> Love -> Abundance -> Peace -> Humanity living as one organism


Zeitgeist 1,2 and 3 documentaries cover the origin of evil relatively well :)

skippy
26th March 2011, 20:29
TimelessDimensions, is it possible to provide us here at PA with a summary on this topic from the Zeitgeist documentaries?

TimelessDimensions
28th March 2011, 11:50
Can't do that skippy, there are so many topics covered in Zeitgeist 1, 2 and 3 that if I get into it you'll probably keep arguing with me until I explain everything from start to finish.

So you'll have to watch them yourself if you want to know more.

Afterwards, if you still need more info then watch "The Reality Of Me" (TROM) and that's a 12-hour long documentary that goes even further into the scientific conclusions made by TZM and the Venus Project.

- Enjoy :)

jorr lundstrom
28th March 2011, 12:37
i
LIMOR WROTE: agree with Jung when he is saying:"we know nothing on man.far too little"

but, to say that-"man is the origin of all coming evil" wel,'all' is a little bit harsh in my opinion.


This is cute, one is ready to admit that we know too little about men but

at least we know that men is not the origin of all coming evil. LOL

Being brought up in a christian society we are told that we shall be good,

and only good. If we are evil we have to feel quilt and shame. Nobody can

be just good, so we walk around feeling bad most of the time and then we are

very vulnerable to manipulations. Voila, how clever of the priests. I suppose its the

same in judaism and islam.


LIMOR wrote: o,I would like to rephrase Jung's words from the start and say that

"To live on autopilot,is the origin of all evil,but to be aware is the solution."

Living on autopilot its very easy to imagine oneself to be good. If one is aware its very

hard not to notice that there is more than goodies coming through oneself.:sorry:

skippy
15th April 2011, 20:21
cX8szNPgrEs

skippy
13th April 2013, 23:06
"The truth in all this is, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one. This stuff is ruled by the equations of dynamics and chaos. Reality is some kind of a morphogenetic field created by the sumtotal of all human minds on this planet." Terence McKenna


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDnEWHkjBc

wavydome
14th April 2013, 12:08
Skippy thanks for threading into this mysterious origin of evil. I hope this fits your OP. Fast forward: Alan Watts compares the eastern and western stories of earth's eras... A really neat point made is that the eastern version (Veda based?) , tells us that two thirds of the ages need to be positive where goodness controls culture. While one third needs to have evil controlling cultures.... Why? Essentially, to keep life interesting. Too much goodness, just gets boring. Epochal-games with challenge are the best and the most highest rated... Are we allowed to interpret such evil? Where the good eventually and with magnificent excitement overcomes evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnLEhQXnIzQ

Alan Watts covers many related aspects in this very recent video (Published on Jan 6, 2013)... This vid incorporates a beautiful stream of remarkable terra-forming and galactica forming visualizations. Along with some great nature and great architecture photography. 10 points i say.

greybeard
14th April 2013, 12:44
The Soul purpose of evil is to give freedom of choice.
We get a chance to express forgiveness, compassion and many other selfless traits.
Chris

Gardener
14th April 2013, 16:15
Yes I agree with it being a necessary part of the dynamic, to create the tension needed for choosing and dealing with what life has to offer. To grow.
A way of stating evil is, 'to work against another' at a very simple level.

Sammy
14th April 2013, 17:38
looking for the origin? look in the mirror

Hervé
14th April 2013, 18:02
looking for the origin? look in the mirror

Mirror?

What's that?

Must be another invention of that evil thing....

Sammy
14th April 2013, 22:24
looking for the origin? look in the mirror

Mirror?

What's that?

Must be another invention of that evil thing....

Yes Amzer Zo... but it took me finding that one through the one I saw in the mirror. Not sure that would work for anyone else, but it did for me (along with other processes).

By the way - I met with a local auditor who works days and so he referred me to another who would be available for me during the day. We should be touching base next week.

The one I met showed me the e-meter. He demonstrated it to me by pinching me. It was interesting to see the meter react about a second or so after.

But what was even cooler was when he asked me to recall the pinch and when I did, again... about 1 - 2 seconds later, the meter pegged.

We then went through that a few more times where the meter no longer reacted which demonstrated I had "undone" or "dealt with" that small trauma.

This was very exciting to me because I was also able to make the meter react when I recalled a painful event of my past that I thought I had resolved.

The implications here are that if I am capable of some serious (self) honesty and that I then allow the removal of thought errors made in "past lives" or in the past of this current life, I might emerge as a consistently better for us all (which includes me) and that is my most important goal.

I have you to thank (and Truman Cash and observer and moxie as well) for getting me to this stage.

So, "thanks."

Your Friend

Chester

skippy
17th April 2013, 19:56
looking for the origin? look in the mirror

"This AI, that is coming into existence, is to my mind, not artificial at all, not alien at all. It's a new confirmation of geometry as the collective self of humanity." Terence McKenna

pHykSxxTiQc

rgray222
18th April 2013, 02:52
Sometimes I think the evil is a necessary part of living this life, so much of this life 'appears' to be evil, at times it seems intentional. From the way large cats kill and devour their prey, from the way the killer whale stalks its victims. Car accidents, disease, war, poverty.....the list of evil just goes on and on but on the other hand there are far more kind hearted people in the world. I don't think that will ever change.

We should never accept evil but we should accept that the evil in this world is mankind's challenge. We are the powers that be, we are in control of our own lives, we are the only ones that can honestly change things. Things will not change until there is either a collective awakening or enough people wake up and demand more from life, demand a different life, demand a life with less or no evil, less fear and more contentment. I believe that this is why we are here. We may not accomplish this in our lifetimes but we can contribute each and everyday to this change.

We are truly a soul having a life experience, we need to recognize that first and foremost. Once you have that 'fact' in perspective it changes the way you live your life and eliminates much of the fear and anxiety we experience. Once we understand that some people and institutions are evil and prey upon humanity we can start to change things. The true Powers To Be are us. The problem is we have not recognized our own ability to change things yet. We don't give ourselves the credit that we deserve, we have not accepted that power that is at our fingertips. Once we do that we will no longer allow our politicians to get us into wars, we will find a way to deal peacefully with conflict. We will embark on a path of eliminating/removing ruthless dictators. We will collectively demand that the world embark on a mission to end disease & sickness. Our human and even our economic resources are already sufficient to make massive changes but we allow our politicians to waste human and financial capital in a way that is appalling.

Only we can make the necessary changes, it will not be done by "others" we are the only ones with enough power to accomplish the impossible. We must recognize that death is not an end it is truly a beginning.

enfoldedblue
18th April 2013, 03:50
Thought I'd share my musings on the topic. (stuff from my website that Iwrote a while ago.)

Once upon a time we existed like a yin and yang symbol that pulsed with love. The white aspect was light and clear and bright, while the black was dark, dense and mysterious; and both were joined by love and were integral parts of the beautiful whole.

One day we decided to try an experiment. We decided to separate the light and dark aspects of the divine. We kept love on the side of the light and sent the dark away. Because love was on the side of the light we decided that the light was good, and the dark, which had become void of love, was bad. Thus we created duality.

Suddenly we could experience something that was impossible when we were united as one, we could experience ‘other’. We could now compare ourselves to ‘others’, judge ‘others’, take advantage of ‘others’, hurt ‘others etc...things that made no sense when we understood ourselves to be part of a whole.

The darkness which suddenly found itself cut off from love felt terrible pain, rejection and anger and began to hate the light. It seeped away into all the hidden corners and began to seethe. The absence of love caused the dark to distort and its true beautiful nature was twisted into evil. The dark became the lord of all things horrid, vile and repulsive. The fact that it had no morals or values to guide it meant it could do anything and so it grew more and more powerful.

Because we forgot our true state of unity we saw our opposite as the enemy. The aspects of the whole that aligned themselves with the light believed that they were righteous and that the darkness needed to be punished and eradicated. The aspects that aligned themselves with the darkness saw the light as weak and sanctimonious and felt it must be made to know suffering.

Thus a war between the light and dark was started and suffering spread throughout the whole.

In truth those who stand in the light and judge and condemn the darkness are as much a cause of the suffering as the dark. The answer is not to try to beat the dark, negative polarity into submission, the answer is to recognize it as part of the whole, and use the unifying force of love to heal those aspects that have been distorted into evil by being cut off from love.

The darkness gets its power from creating fear. When we act from fear we want to fight that which we feel opposes us. Some try to shine light onto the darkness thinking this is the solution..but the dark does not need to become light. In the same way that a plant needs both the rich dark soil, and the vibrant light to grow healthy...so do we need both the light and the dark to be healthy and strong.

The solution is not to repel, to squash, to fight, or to rage against, as these actions ultimately only act to amplify and perpetuate the problem...the answer is to love. When we choose love instead of fear we begin to neutralize and heal the dualistic system. When we remember that darkness is as much a part of us as the light, and that it has become evil because it has been separated from love, the only logical solution is love love love love and more love.


We are at the point in our story where we are ready to transcend the game of duality and start a new game based on unity and wholeness, and they key to our reunification is love.

If we remember that below the surface all is love, and this dynamic of an evil group dominating the masses etc, is just part of the natural unfolding of dense energies, then we can stop feeling fearful, powerless, angry, and relax and trust that what we are witnessing is simply the play out of the energies of separation. By choosing this viewpoint, we can focus our energy on grounding and spreading love in our world, and we stop feeding the fear paradigm.

Now that these dense energies have been allowed to play themselves out, it is time to make the shift back to our natural state. We have played the out the good and evil dynamic to the fullest. Now it is time to infuse all those parts of ‘ourself’ that we have hidden in the dark, both on an individual and collective level, with healing love. It is time to take the next evolutionary leap and re-unite in a wholeness that is deeper, wiser and stronger from our journey through separation.

skippy
10th September 2013, 19:17
"What civilization is, is 6 billion people trying to make themselves happy by standing on each other's shoulders and kicking each other's teeth in. It’s not a pleasant situation. And yet, you can stand back and look at this planet and see that we have the money, the power, the medical understanding, the scientific know-how, the love and the community to produce a kind of human paradise. But we are led by the least among us - the least intelligent, the least noble, the least visionary - we are led by the least among us - and we do not fight back against the dehumanizing values that are handed down as control icons.

This is something - I don't really want to get off on this tear because it's a lecture in itself, but - culture is not your friend. Culture is for other people's convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes - what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you. It disempowers you. It uses and abuses you. None of us are well treated by culture. Yet we glorify the creative potential of the individual, the rights of the individual. We understand the felt-presence of experience is what is most important.

But the culture is a perversion. It fetishizes objects, creates consumer mania, it preaches endless forms of false happiness, endless forms of false understanding in the form of squirrelly religions and silly cults. It invites people to diminish themselves and dehumanize themselves by behaving like machines."

Terence Mckenna, April 27, 1999, Seattle, US

skippy
16th October 2013, 17:59
Once upon a time we existed like a yin and yang symbol that pulsed with love. The white aspect was light and clear and bright, while the black was dark, dense and mysterious; and both were joined by love and were integral parts of the beautiful whole.

This sunday, during a walk around the lake closeby, I took the following picture. A beautiful swan couple, black and white. Thank you enfoldedblue and all the rest of you for your beautiful contributions on this mysterious subject :)

23286

Tchaikovsky - Swan Lake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76CGGPqI3s

Paul
16th October 2013, 20:40
Closed at the request of the original poster.