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View Full Version : SKEPTICISM CORNERr..includes you sam!!



blue777
25th April 2010, 09:25
If you are a skeptci about any of the esoteric data which is discussed on this forum, i would like to hear your point of view the reason "Why" you are so skeptical..and how do you see the future panning out?.... also what has made you so skeptical ,can one of the reasons be, that falsehoods are built on falsehoods...

that includes you SAM
lol
love of light
blue

perfectresonance
25th April 2010, 09:36
I'll put my hand up.

I WANT to believe.

But everything has to go through a very long process where the data is placed on a continuum from probably true right through to probably false.

In my personal life I have had very little direct proof of many of the things discussed here.

But I remain keenly interested.

That said, I am not one to take other people's word for something. I'll take a new idea from them, but then start the task of data collection over many years to see if the idea stands scrutiny.

I figure I have another 40 years or so to work on this, so I am not in a hurry.

But what a fantastic time we live in!

Can you imagine having interests such as we do, and doing this just 50 years ago? Apart from your parents, community or religious leaders, and the funny guy mum told you not to talk to, your ability to access additional information was limited to Brittanica and the purchasing policy of your local library.

But with this new inter-connectedness does also come a complete LACK of filters. Anyone can say anything. And sometimes an idea grabs hold and many people will repeat it.

Does it make it true?

And so, the search continues.

And I'm lovin' it ;-)

blue777
25th April 2010, 09:41
I'll put my hand up.

I WANT to believe.

But everything has to go through a very long process where the data is placed on a continuum from probably true right through to probably false.

In my personal life I have had very little direct proof of many of the things discussed here.

But I remain keenly interested.

That said, I am not one to take other people's word for something. I'll take a new idea from them, but then starts the task of data collection over many years to see if the idea stands scrutiny.

I figure I have another 40 years or so to work on this, so I am not in a hurry.

But what a fantastic time we live in!

Can you imagine having interests such as we do, and doing this just 50 years ago? Apart from your parents, community or religious leaders, and the funny guy mum told you not to talk to, your ability to access additional information was limited to Brittanica and the purchasing policy of your local library.

But with this new inter-connectedness does also come a complete LACK of filters. Anyone can say anything. And sometimes an idea grabs hold and many people will repeat it.

Does it make it true?

And so, the search continues.

And I'm lovin' it ;-)

i AGREE, at the moment there is so much disinformation , it is hard to make out the truth and reality from falsehood and unreality.....and it seems that these esoteric groups are being divided and conquered ...the question is why?....also catastrophes scenario creates FEAR and we do not need that , however if it is the truth we also need to prepare........therefore skeptics explain why we should not worry....and are we heading to a new age?

Swami
25th April 2010, 09:47
No skepticism here Mr. Blue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77MM6rwwucc)...;)

viking
25th April 2010, 09:50
Interesting Thread Blue...

Waiting in anticipation!!

viking

blue777
25th April 2010, 09:53
No skepticism here Mr. Blue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77MM6rwwucc)...;)

Therefore everything esoteric being spoken about is the truth and reality.... you have no doubt at all
lol
bluish

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Interesting Thread Blue...

Waiting in anticipation!!

viking

Have you any notions of what is truth ...have you any area which you are skeptical about?
lol
blue

viking
25th April 2010, 10:09
[/COLOR]
Have you any notions of what is truth ...have you any area which you are skeptical about?
lol
blue[/QUOTE]

LOL...

The only truth we all have is what we can see in front of us...

So what we really know as 'truth' is what we can 'see'...'touch'... and ' hear'

The rest is hearsay!! We can only summise...

But don't worry truth will unfold!!

viking

blue777
25th April 2010, 10:13
[/COLOR]
Have you any notions of what is truth ...have you any area which you are skeptical about?
lol
blue

LOL...

The only truth we all have is what we can see in front of us...

So what we really know as 'truth' is what we can 'see'...'touch'... and ' hear'

The rest is hearsay!! We can only summise...

But don't worry truth will unfold!!

viking[/QUOTE]



quote:
So what we really know as 'truth' is what we can 'see'...'touch'... and ' hear'

hi viking
what about the sense of INTUITION.....and the sense of SILENT THOUGHT?
lol
blue

viking
25th April 2010, 10:27
LOL

My intuition tells me that we have a lot of crap out there and folk spewing bull s**t!!! Ha ha

I hear where your coming from Blue and am trying to seek answers..but until we can see with our own eyes..then that a different kettle of fish...

Let me give you an example...I have seen discs in the skies and ships floating around up there so I know that they exist...but the question I don't know is what they truly are!!!

My Instincts tell me we are in for big change!!! What ?? I wish I really knew... does anyone really know??

viking

Petut Semedhi
25th April 2010, 10:29
Just wrote a great long reply, and like usual the computer disappeared it by pretending that I wasn't logged on.

Yes ! for skepticism.

*technogobbledegook as per early Thubron and equivalent
*ascensionism - based purely on the imagination (like waiting for Jesus - wont necessarily leave people prepared for life)
*breatharianism - there was a round of that about 10 years ago (that generation are probably dead and buried by now)
*anyone who has an exclusive franchise on the truth
*anyone who doesn't face the truth even when it is staring face to face with them
*anyone who comes up with a position that truely contradicts anothers (my head hurts !)

My topic has always been spirit or spirituality - or however one chooses to translate it. It is the only thing that really matters. Everything else is ultimately a distraction.

We can perv. at future reckonings, but only in the manner of voyeurism. Now is always us here.

My approach - hear and absorb it all, but don't make my path out of it. (For the path needs to be guided by sound practise - at least mine does). To be discriminating in how I appreciate things, and to consider 'who am I to decide what is right and what is wrong?'. Truely - I don't know most of what goes on in the world. Or beyond it.

I do love it when titbits of information correlate. Or when I hear something on the ticktock news and I've already heard the full(er) background story.

The song collecters in ancient China would collect the songs that people were singing, and by that determine what their conditions were like. So too with PA and the ?conspiracy/exopolitics/etc? world.

Those that enter deeply into the truth within the human condition, their voices speak with a consistancy. No Matter what colour their bathing costume is. They know their truth and know that it is unassailable.

I listen carefully without investing in any particular story.

Careful out there - it's a jungle
Gg

blue777
25th April 2010, 10:42
Just wrote a great long reply, and like usual the computer disappeared it by pretending that I wasn't logged on.

Yes ! for skepticism.

*technogobbledegook as per early Thubron and equivalent
*ascensionism - based purely on the imagination (like waiting for Jesus - wont necessarily leave people prepared for life)
*breatharianism - there was a round of that about 10 years ago (that generation are probably dead and buried by now)
*anyone who has an exclusive franchise on the truth
*anyone who doesn't face the truth even when it is staring face to face with them
*anyone who comes up with a position that truely contradicts anothers (my head hurts !)

My topic has always been spirit or spirituality - or however one chooses to translate it. We can perv. at future reckonings, but only in the manner of voyeurism. Now is always with here.

My approach - absorb it all, but don't make my path out of it. (For the path needs to be guided by sound practise - at least mine does). To be discriminating, who am I to decide what is right and what is wrong. Truely - I don't know most of what goes on in the world.

I do love it when titbits of information correlate. Or when I hear something on the ticktock news and I've already heard the full(er) background story.

The song collecters in ancient China would collect the songs that people were singing, and by that determine what their conditions were like.

Those that enter deeply into the truth within the human condition, their voices speak with a consistancy. No Matter what colour their bathing costume is.

I listen carefully without investing in any particular story.

Careful out there - it's a jungle
Gg

THANKS SEMHEDI...Excellent reply..
1.quote:
ascensionism - based purely on the imagination (like waiting for Jesus - wont necessarily leave people prepared for life)

I have to disagree with you, Ascension is based on sound frequency harmonics , second inversion ,due to the fact it is based on the survival of the fittest , natures way...also based on the fibonnaci series.

2.quote: anyone who doesn't face the truth even when it is staring face to face with them..

could this be a skeptic!!
lol
blue

Swami
25th April 2010, 10:59
So, the Swami's question is, who in here still is skeptical about all the info given by Mr. Blue....?
Dont be shy now............:happy:

Swami
25th April 2010, 11:17
OK it works like this:

13 have to know the absolute truth.....people who have reached the desired frequency will be picked up
PUP......PICK UP PLACES.... 7 CHAKRAS...12 PLUS ONE =13

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 11:38
Great thread!

I am skeptical of glamorized "theories" which are just that "theories" which offer nothing to the progress of the human race other than more vacuos intellectual rubbish
I am skeptical of doom and gloomers ( I do think we will experience earth changes but much of what has been speculated with will fall sideways)

I am convinced we are being manipulated into creating a "worse case escenario" by the media and TPTB and while I think we could prepare ourselves within reason the biggest danger is falling into irrational fear

Only direct experience at all levels, including the inner levels, can yield knowledge most of the rest is just bs

Saying that, I am gratefull to the gloom and doomers because without them I will have put for later what I am doing now, and thank you Samvado too....We learn more from those that challenge us than from those that agree with us

:humble::peace::grouphug:

blue777
25th April 2010, 12:04
Great thread!

I am skeptical of glamorized "theories" which are just that "theories" which offer nothing to the progress of the human race other than more vacuos intellectual rubbish
I am skeptical of doom and gloomers ( I do think we will experience earth changes but much of what has been speculated with will fall sideways)

I am convinced we are being manipulated into creating a "worse case escenario" by the media and TPTB and while I think we could prepare ourselves within reason the biggest danger is falling into irrational fear

Only direct experience at all levels, including the inner levels, can yield knowledge most of the rest is just bs

Saying that, I am gratefull to the gloom and doomers because without them I will have put for later what I am doing now, and thank you Samvado too....We learn more from those that challenge us than from those that agree with us

:humble::peace::grouphug:

being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority.....Take 7 Phd's on the Earth is equivalent to one grain of sand......higher intelligence E.T. is equivalent to a 50 mile beach...therefore skeptics ....suffer form grandiose.......the real authority is off the Earth
lol
blue[COLOR="red"]

kriya
25th April 2010, 12:13
Great thread!

Saying that, I am gratefull to the gloom and doomers because without them I will have put for later what I am doing now, and thank you Samvado too....We learn more from those that challenge us than from those that agree with us
:humble::peace::grouphug:

I agree Stardust. Realitycorrodes post on my thread has made be even more determined to practice kriya yoga more. I love Samvado's brutal honesty, it makes me really laugh.

Question everything (but don't call me a liar!!).

Love,

Kriya

Operator
25th April 2010, 12:14
I have said this before but I think this thread is actually THE thread to repeat it ....

Be alert for whistle blowers that start of great and seem very reliable ... as soon as they gather lots of followers quite a few of them start diverting because they either can't handle the stardom
and start adding (made up) incredible stuff to keep exceeding expectations or they will be targeted and messed with (probably without them knowing it) by the controllers.

But let's not call them a scam (black and white thinking) right away ... it's our job to filter the info and discern what's true and what's disinfo.
Sometimes the whistle blowers are not experts themselves and are easily abused to repeat false info ...

Take care ...

blue777
25th April 2010, 12:23
I have said this before but I think this thread is actually THE thread to repeat it ....

Be alert for whistle blowers that start of great and seem very reliable ... as soon as they gather lots of followers quite a few of them start diverting because they either can't handle the stardom
and start adding (made up) incredible stuff to keep exceeding expectations or they will be targeted and messed with (probably without them knowing it) by the controllers.

But let's not call them a scam (black and white thinking) right away ... it's our job to filter the info and discern what's true and what's disinfo.
Sometimes the whistle blowers are not experts themselves and are easily abused to repeat false info ...

Take care ...

THANKS OPERATOR...How do YOU discern between truth and falsehood?
lol
blue

SteveX
25th April 2010, 12:47
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority.....Take 7 Phd's on the Earth is equivalent to one grain of sand......higher intelligence E.T. is equivalent to a 50 mile beach...therefore skeptics ....suffer form grandiose.......the real authority is off the Earth [COLOR="red"]

In a word….cobblers. Being one of the un dead (NDE) and having seen an alien I am forced to be open minded. I’m not so open minded that my brain fell out. With the in-tard-net being what it is I would guestimate 95% of the stuff that interests us is total and utter bollocks.

I’m sure there are some truths out there but with all the rubbish it’s just so hard to find. One is left to think about the people that put this stuff out there. There are truelly-deluded people, in a real clinical sense, out there. Then we have the gullible, the unintelligent, the uneducated, the ill informed, the mischievous, and the moneymakers all compounding the rubbish on the net. Just one spark of truth has little chance of staying clean of disinfo. So I’m skeptical of a lot of things but that doesn’t mean I’ll through every part of a concept out just because some or most of it is crap.

As a for instance…. The illuminati. There maybe aspects of stateism that could be misconstrued. I have no doubt there are elitist groups with an agenda all under the banner of capitalism. However, I find it hard, through practical reasons, to believe one group is calling all the shots. I am tempted go as far as to say there is NO group called the illuminati. I think it’s the equivalent to an urban myth, probably inspired by a fiction righter way back when. This, hypothetically, may have been expanded upon by a clinically DELUDED person, that puts enough information out there for the GULLIBLE to expand upon. The ILL INFORMED, in turn, passes it on like it’s a fact. I’m open to be proved wrong. There could well be a grain and I emphasis a grain, of truth in it. Just look at al the different stories or different faction that are supposed to be the make up of the illuminati. Which theory is near the grain of truth? I’m skeptical but I’ll keep an open mind.

What’s the likelihood of 17 brand new top-secret underground bases being built per year? Yes, 17 bases could be being built but the practicality of them being kept secret is zero. So how do we know the number but not the locations? Is somebody deluded, gullible, ill informed or is there a $ in the story. Again, one is to seek the grain of truth. One is left skeptical but open-minded.

Of the mountains of crap it’s that one-grain of truth that’s important. Getting to it is a different matter and causes many an ego to be kicked in the nads. Sometimes I don’t have the academic acumen to follow a certain theory but that doesn’t mean I should act like a gullible idiot and believe it. It means I gosta swat up on the subject if I want to follow it to a conclusion. You have to ask the questions.

Many theories fall at the first hurdle anyway. Take planet X nibiru and 2012.

Operator
25th April 2010, 12:47
THANKS OPERATOR...How do YOU discern between truth and falsehood?
lol
blue

For a very important first part intuition only for a secondary part 'monkey' mind ... (mind can be 'controlled', consciousness not)
So instead of being or becoming a whistleblower junkie it's far more important to work on developing intuition (meditation helps) ...

The way it works for me is that most of the times I do have 'visions' first and to be able to communicate them to others I start looking for
as much hard evidence as I can find to support it. The problem remains however ... if you are still one step ahead in your awareness development
compared to others the 'hard' evidence is still not perceived as such by them ... it is still too incredible to be accepted.
Then 'having patience' will be(come) the main exercise in your life ...

blue777
25th April 2010, 12:58
In a word….cobblers. Being one of the un dead (NDE) and having seen an alien I am forced to be open minded. I’m not so open minded that my brain fell out. With the in-tard-net being what it is I would guestimate 95% of the stuff that interests us is total and utter bollocks.

I’m sure there are some truths out there but with all the rubbish it’s just so hard to find. One is left to think about the people that put this stuff out there. There are truelly-deluded people, in a real clinical sense, out there. Then we have the gullible, the unintelligent, the uneducated, the ill informed, the mischievous, and the moneymakers all compounding the rubbish on the net. Just one spark of truth has little chance of staying clean of disinfo. So I’m skeptical of a lot of things but that doesn’t mean I’ll through every part of a concept out just because some or most of it is crap.

As a for instance…. The illuminati. There maybe aspects of stateism that could be misconstrued. I have no doubt there are elitist groups with an agenda all under the banner of capitalism. However, I find it hard, through practical reasons, to believe one group is calling all the shots. I am tempted go as far as to say there is NO group called the illuminati. I think it’s the equivalent to an urban myth, probably inspired by a fiction righter way back when. This, hypothetically, may have been expanded upon by a clinically DELUDED person, that puts enough information out there for the GULLIBLE to expand upon. The ILL INFORMED, in turn, passes it on like it’s a fact. I’m open to be proved wrong. There could well be a grain and I emphasis a grain, of truth in it. Just look at al the different stories or different faction that are supposed to be the make up of the illuminati. Which theory is near the grain of truth? I’m skeptical but I’ll keep an open mind.

What’s the likelihood of 17 brand new top-secret underground bases being built per year? Yes, 17 bases could be being built but the practicality of them being kept secret is zero. So how do we know the number but not the locations? Is somebody deluded, gullible, ill informed or is there a $ in the story. Again, one is to seek the grain of truth. One is left skeptical but open-minded.

Of the mountains of crap it’s that one-grain of truth that’s important. Getting to it is a different matter and causes many an ego to be kicked in the nads. Sometimes I don’t have the academic acumen to follow a certain theory but that doesn’t mean I should act like a gullible idiot and believe it. It means I gosta swat up on the subject if I want to follow it to a conclusion. You have to ask the questions.

Many theories fall at the first hurdle anyway. Take planet X nibiru and 2012.

Great reply steve,
KOHINAS would be a better word....now to wade through it,
quote: Being one of the un dead (NDE) and having seen an alien I am forced to be open minded.

O.K. Therefore we have to take your word for it , that you have seen an alien.. ANY,.proof evidence photos, recordings enlightenment., would be a great help
Secondly
quote:
95% of the stuff that interests us is total and utter bollocks. (KOHUNAS)
THEREFORE THE 5 % WHICH IS LEFT IS WHAT EXACTLY WHAT TRUTH REALITY IS IT?

tHIRDLY
QUOTE:
Many theories fall at the first hurdle anyway. Take planet X nibiru and 2012.[/QUOTE]

tHEREFORE YOU ARE CALLING dR DEAGLE A LIAR....

BE INTERESTED IN YOUR REPLY
P.S
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....

bashi
25th April 2010, 13:11
It is good to be a sceptic.
You will always find arguments for or against something and can pass time by debunking or “proofing” something.
A forum can never provide "truth" for everybody, only encouragement to find your own.
This forum is more about seeking or how to seek for “truth”.
A sceptic is not a seeker of “truth”.
A sceptic is mostly passive, just consuming the info coming to him and then forming an opinion. He/she often lacks due diligence in case of an already formed opinion.

A statement here is typical:” I listen carefully without investing in any particular story”

A seeker uses the power of discernment and inquiry with an open mind, in order to come closer to the hidden reality.
That requires a wilful effort, active seeking.
A seeker forms a temporary opinion, keeping in mind that proof might surface during the seeking that might change the opinion.

So what is proof or “truth” for a seeker? An experience by perception through the senses, which was made available to him through active seeking.
A true seeker can have even an extended definition of senses apart from the ordinary physical ones. Like vision, intuition, dreams etc. These are experiences apart from ordinary physical senses, and by working on him/her-self these experiences might become more important in his quest for “truth”.

Now, to develop these additional senses requires effort by the seeker to work on himself. By raising the questions:” How trustworthy is this info?” “How can I increase the clarity of the info?” he/she will eventually actively find it out. By painful try and error, following misperceptions etc. , he/she might eventually develop for him/her-self additional senses.
He/she might implement his/her own classification system for these senses like: ” Always right, sometimes correct, less probable info to faint hint.”

But the seeker will always include this info into the info-“bag”.
And will sometimes act on that, resulting in actions/opinions not understandable for other sceptics, who will try to ridicule based on their limited info provided by their limited senses.

That’s why it is good to be a sceptic, but better to be a seeker.

The difference is based on two things: Active Effort and self-inquiry.

blue777
25th April 2010, 13:16
quote
That’s why it is good to be a sceptic, but better to be a seeker.

being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy, just to re-emphasise this , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority.....Take 7 Phd's on the Earth is equivalent to one grain of sand......higher intelligence E.T. is equivalent to a 50 mile beach...therefore skeptics ....suffer form grandiose.......the real authority is off the Earth
lol
blue[COLOR="red"]

Majorion
25th April 2010, 13:55
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy ...

therefore skeptics ....suffer form grandiose...
Blue, you keep repeating these baseless statements here.

Skepticism is not negative, its just that some people have a much higher standard of evidence, and they take these things more seriously than others, they are more critical, and less inclined to take the word of every joe selling a book.

Show me one skeptic that has done any damage to ufology, the real damage is done by the ones who believe everything they are told, everything they read, without seriously questioning or having any doubt.

Discernment doesn't mean you use intuition, it means that you question things that are otherwise not self evident or proven, and not take anyone's word for it alone. For a skeptic, the process of substantiating something is far more rigorous.

Especially in this day and age, people need to be extra wary of information they are getting, if you are saying all that is negative, then you are not being realistic. I would be interested in hearing what kind of alternate solution you have in mind.

SteveX
25th April 2010, 14:03
Great reply steve,
KOHINAS would be a better word....now to wade through it,
quote: Being one of the un dead (NDE) and having seen an alien I am forced to be open minded.

O.K. Therefore we have to take your word for it , that you have seen an alien.. ANY,.proof evidence photos, recordings enlightenment., would be a great help

The difference here is I believe I have experienced things, which are considered out of the norm. I believe they happened to me. I trust the experience. I am NOT selling YOU the idea of aliens or life after death. I’m not saying a friend of a friend of friend said XYZ. I’m not telling YOU a theory as to why aliens exist or the theory as to why there is life after death. I’m NOT saying you must believe me.

I am using my experience of the unusual as a very good reason not to dismiss, off handedly, ideas on the fringe of normality. I am open to what the masses may consider outlandish ideas. It is for me to find the truth in it rather than roll over and believe it right off the bat.

Secondly
quote:
95% of the stuff that interests us is total and utter bollocks. (KOHUNAS)
THEREFORE THE 5 % WHICH IS LEFT IS WHAT EXACTLY WHAT TRUTH REALITY IS IT?

This I have to admit is subjective to any given person. There is next to little real hard-core evidence out there on the net. There are hints and innuendo. Something’s are feasible to consider and something’s are just to unrealistic for words.

tHIRDLY
QUOTE:
Many theories fall at the first hurdle anyway. Take planet X nibiru and 2012.

tHEREFORE YOU ARE CALLING dR DEAGLE A LIAR....BE INTERESTED IN YOUR REPLY

Common bloody sense tells you there is no planet headed our way. Man! You would see it with the naked eye if it entered the inner solar system. I’m no sky watcher but thousand of astronomers would have alerted us of such a thing years ago. OK, you could get into a planet size Klingon cloaking device theory but that’s just preposterous.

P.S
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....[/QUOTE]

I really don’t buy your emphasis of negative energy thing. That works well for the gullible to keep themselves deluded to realty. If a theory doesn't stack up to a few simple questions it's a waist of your energy.

blue777
25th April 2010, 14:05
Blue, you keep repeating these baseless statements here.

Skepticism is not negative, its just that some people have a much higher standard of evidence, and they take these things more seriously than others, they are more critical, and less inclined to take the word of every joe selling a book.

Show me one skeptic that has done any damage to ufology, the real damage is done by the ones who believe everything they are told, everything they read, without seriously questioning or having any doubt.

Discernment doesn't mean you use intuition, it means that you question things that are otherwise not self evident or proven, and not take anyone's word for it alone. For a skeptic, the process of substantiating something is far more rigorous.

Especially in this day and age, people need to be extra wary of information they are getting, if you are saying all that is negative, then you are not being realistic. I would be interested in hearing what kind of alternate solution you have in mind.

hello Majorion, do I have to really spell it out...being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy, just to re-emphasise this , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....meaning everyone else who believe in something are wrong, and they are right..making themselves the authority on that subject.......but infact is is PRIDE AND EGO WHICH MAKES THEM SKEPTIC , therefore it is based on a negative energy.....
to emphasise
.Take 7 Phd's on the Earth is equivalent to one grain of sand......higher intelligence E.T. is equivalent to a 50 mile beach...therefore skeptics ....suffer form grandiose.......the real authority is off the Earth
lol
blue[COLOR="red"]

blue777
25th April 2010, 14:17
tHEREFORE YOU ARE CALLING dR DEAGLE A LIAR....BE INTERESTED IN YOUR REPLY

Common bloody sense tells you there is no planet headed our way. Man! You would see it with the naked eye if it entered the inner solar system. I’m no sky watcher but thousand of astronomers would have alerted us of such a thing years ago. OK, you could get into a planet size Klingon cloaking device theory but that’s just preposterous.


P.S
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....

I really don’t buy your emphasis of negative energy thing. That works well for the gullible to keep themselves deluded to realty. If a theory doesn't stack up to a few simple questions it's a waist of your energy.[/QUOTE]

Therefore why are all these underground systems being built by the so called hierarchy....if catastrophes are not going to take place...
and secondly
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy, just to re-emphasise this , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....meaning everyone else who believe in something are wrong, and they are right..making themselves the authority on that subject.......but infact is is PRIDE AND EGO WHICH MAKES THEM SKEPTIC , therefore it is based on a negative energy.....

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 14:22
Hi Blue777

Here is the definition from wikipedia so we know where to stand

quote
Contemporary skepticism (or scepticism) is loosely used to denote any questioning attitude,[1] or some degree of doubt regarding claims that are elsewhere taken for granted.[2]

The word skepticism can characterize a position on a single claim, but in scholastic circles more frequently describes a lasting mind-set. Skepticism is an approach to accepting, rejecting, or suspending judgment on new information that requires the new information to be well supported by evidence.[3] Individuals who proclaim to have a skeptical outlook are frequently called skeptics, often without regard to whether it is philosophical skepticism or empirical skepticism that they profess.[4]

In religion, skepticism refers to 'doubt concerning basic religious principles (such as immortality, providence, and revelation).' (Merriam–Webster)

In classical philosophy, skepticism (or scepticism) is the teachings and the traits of the 'Skeptikoi', a school of philosophers of whom it was said that they 'asserted nothing but only opined.' (Liddell and Scott) In this sense, philosophical skepticism, or Pyrrhonism, is the philosophical position that one should suspend judgment in investigations.[5]
unquote

This is what I mean when I said I am skeptical. We are brainwashed since childhood to accept that all that is written in a book, said by authorities and our parents is "THE TRUTH", what a lie!

We can not judge a book by its cover (methaphorically speaking) but we don't have to believe either. There is a great difference between "knowing" and "believing". Knowing requires first had experience and "believing" is a matter of faith. I have ditched the "faith" and prefer a much more experiencial and profound exploration

Love

blue777
25th April 2010, 14:27
Hi Blue777

Here is the definition from wikipedia so we know where to stand

quote
Contemporary skepticism (or scepticism) is loosely used to denote any questioning attitude,[1] or some degree of doubt regarding claims that are elsewhere taken for granted.[2]

The word skepticism can characterize a position on a single claim, but in scholastic circles more frequently describes a lasting mind-set. Skepticism is an approach to accepting, rejecting, or suspending judgment on new information that requires the new information to be well supported by evidence.[3] Individuals who proclaim to have a skeptical outlook are frequently called skeptics, often without regard to whether it is philosophical skepticism or empirical skepticism that they profess.[4]

In religion, skepticism refers to 'doubt concerning basic religious principles (such as immortality, providence, and revelation).' (Merriam–Webster)

In classical philosophy, skepticism (or scepticism) is the teachings and the traits of the 'Skeptikoi', a school of philosophers of whom it was said that they 'asserted nothing but only opined.' (Liddell and Scott) In this sense, philosophical skepticism, or Pyrrhonism, is the philosophical position that one should suspend judgment in investigations.[5]
unquote

This is what I mean when I said I am skeptical. We are brainwashed since childhood to accept that all that is written in a book, said by authorities and our parents is "THE TRUTH", what a lie!

We can not judge a book by its cover (methaphorically speaking) but we don't have to believe either. There is a great difference between "knowing" and "believing". Knowing requires first had experience and "believing" is a matter of faith. I have ditched the "faith" and prefer a much more experiencial and profound exploration

Love

It does not change the fact that a skeptic is setting themselves as an authority ....they know better than the majority.......any idiot could be a skeptic.........try being a person who wants the truth , that is a lot harder
lol

Majorion
25th April 2010, 14:29
being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy, just to re-emphasise this , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....meaning everyone else who believe in something are wrong, and they are right..making themselves the authority on that subject.......but infact is is PRIDE AND EGO WHICH MAKES THEM SKEPTIC , therefore it is based on a negative energy.....
No need to reemphasize blue, you've made your position perfectly clear, you don't like skeptics, end of story.

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 14:37
That is your take blue777 not mine. We have to be discerning in this world, there is tooooooooooo much disinformation purposedly planted to confuse. Without discernment and a healthy enegaged detachment attitude progress can be like walking through molassess. If you think all skeptics are arrogant that is your judgement only backed by your sole words. You have not presented any data that supports your claim that "all skeptics are arrogant". I know lots of skeptical people that are very nice

So, proportionally in the world how many arrogant skepticals do you think there are and where are you getting your data from?

Love

HORIZONS
25th April 2010, 14:40
I'm skeptical about the benefits of this thread - there is nothing to be proved, nothing to be believed, no absolute to be known, nothing to argue - there are just the opinions of infinite individuality expressing itself.
Personally - I observe everything, but beLIEve nothing in the external world as Truth - I express my opinions but those opinions are subject to change for I am not locked into any one belief system. I greatly desire to know Truth, but my experience tells me that Truth is within us all in the realm of Spirit, and right now we cannot fully access that - so I press on to know as I am Known.

blue777
25th April 2010, 14:41
No need to reemphasize blue, you've made your position perfectly clear, you don't like skeptics, end of story.
NOTHING TO DO WITH LIKING.....it is seeing the truth as it is.....a skeptic sets up a field of authority ,but udermining the truth, any fool can be a skeptic......as they do not know the depth of reality....tell someone 300 years ago we are all ATOMS...THEY WOULD OF THOUGHT YOU ARE A NUTTER..skeptical , they probably would of cut off your GONADS.and set you alight.....that is what ignorance does
LOL

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 14:50
I'm skeptical about the benefits of this thread - there is nothing to be proved, nothing to be believed, no absolute to be known, nothing to argue - there are just the opinions of infinite individuality expressing itself.
Personally - I observe everything, but beLIEve nothing in the external world as Truth - I express my opinions but those opinions are subject to change for I am not locked into any one belief system. I greatly desire to know Truth, but my experience tells me that Truth is within us all in the realm of Spirit, and right now we cannot fully access that - so I press on to know as I am Known.

Agree with you totally, it is about knowing not be-LIE-ving.....words are so revealing!

Love



Love

Grizzom
25th April 2010, 14:52
The Dots are the damn problem!

New age circus masters always give you dots to connect, and these are special dots that no other master/guru has!

They keep you baffled in bullsh-t and sell their books and movies that show you more and more dots to connect and never end.

I sat in the floor and hummed for 2 days and all I got out of it was a sore ass!

I studied sacred geometry and also realized it was just another connect the dot scheme that never ends.

All I do know is something is terribly wrong with planet earth and the people who know how to realistically fix it aren't talking.

blue777
25th April 2010, 14:58
The Dots are the damn problem!

New age circus masters always give you dots to connect, and these are special dots that no other master/guru has!

They keep you baffled in bullsh-t and sell their books and movies that show you more and more dots to connect and never end.

I sat in the floor and hummed for 2 days and all I got out of it was a sore ass!

I studied sacred geometry and also realized it was just another connect the dot scheme that never ends.

All I do know is something is terribly wrong with planet earth and the people who know how to realistically fix it aren't talking.

THEREFORE , YOU SOUND LIKE A SKEPTIC....and do not believe any of this BS .....WHY HAVE WE GOT FORUMS LIKE THIS THEN?
LOL

HORIZONS
25th April 2010, 15:00
THEREFORE , YOU SOUND LIKE A SKEPTIC....and do not believe any of this BS .....WHY HAVE WE GOT FORUMS LIKE THIS THEN?
LOL

To give skeptic's something to do. :-)

Grizzom
25th April 2010, 15:04
THEREFORE , YOU SOUND LIKE A SKEPTIC....and do not believe any of this BS .....WHY HAVE WE GOT FORUMS LIKE THIS THEN?
LOL

Entertainment mostly?

I love a good conspiracy, and project Avalon has the best!

Ha! Ha! He! He! :p

blue777
25th April 2010, 15:07
To give skeptic's something to do. :-)

THEREFORE it is a forum to teach skeptics that they do not have any authority ..and that they cannot set themselves as an authority with people who have a different belief system
lol[COLOR="red"]
lol

Majorion
25th April 2010, 15:10
NOTHING TO DO WITH LIKING.....it is seeing the truth as it is.....a skeptic sets up a field of authority ,but udermining the truth, any fool can be a skeptic......as they do not know the depth of reality....tell someone 300 years ago we are all ATOMS...THEY WOULD OF THOUGHT YOU ARE A NUTTER..skeptical , they probably would of cut off your GONADS.and set you alight.....that is what ignorance does
LOL
You seem quite certain you know the truth, also you're being very specific here, by saying skeptics "undermine" the truth implies that you "know" what the truth actually is, isn't that setting up a field of authority? in the same breath no less...

Your example is from 300 hundred years ago, and besides this really doesn't apply, you're talking about people who would kill a person just because they disagreed, it has nothing to do with basic "doubt" or being skeptical. Unless you're trying to say that skeptics are murderers, well then I've lost you friend!

Grizzom
25th April 2010, 15:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B2O6gpChA

I love this clown :p

blue777
25th April 2010, 15:22
You seem quite certain you know the truth, also you're being very specific here, by saying skeptics "undermine" the truth implies that you "know" what the truth actually is, isn't that setting up a field of authority? in the same breath no less...

Your example is from 300 hundred years ago, and besides this really doesn't apply, you're talking about people who would kill a person just because they disagreed, it has nothing to do with basic "doubt" or being skeptical. Unless you're trying to say that skeptics are murderers, well then I've lost you friend!

OBVIOUSLY 330 YEARS AGO WOULD HAVE SEEN YOU AS A WITCH WITH THOSE SORT OF IDEAS....no-one knows the absolute truth we are all learning
lol

SteveX
25th April 2010, 15:23
I really don’t buy your emphasis of negative energy thing. That works well for the gullible to keep themselves deluded to realty. If a theory doesn't stack up to a few simple questions it's a waist of your energy.

Therefore why are all these underground systems being built by the so called hierarchy....if catastrophes are not going to take place...

You say that like they really are being built. You are saying to me that you are taking the word of someone you don’t know, as gospel. Has it not crossed your mind that this guy knows how many bases are being built this year but hasn’t told you the location. Has it not crossed your mind where these bases might be? Have you considered the practicalities of keeping 17 such large construction projects a secret? The impact of which would reverberate within the construction industry and the commodities market. If you haven’t why not? Wouldn’t your curiosity be compelled to investigate the chance of survival in one of these bases? Would you want to be part of a program that see’s you safe underground in one of these bases?

and secondly

being a skeptic tends to emphasise the negative energy, just to re-emphasise this , what they are saying is that there is no higher levels of intellect, they are the sole authority....meaning everyone else who believe in something are wrong, and they are right..making themselves the authority on that subject.......but infact is is PRIDE AND EGO WHICH MAKES THEM SKEPTIC , therefore it is based on a negative energy.....[/QUOTE]

I would like to pose a few questions here. Quote but infact is is PRIDE AND EGO WHICH MAKES THEM SKEPTIC , therefore it is based on a negative energy.

I can’t see how pride makes one a skeptic. As we get older we gather more information, which we use to discern things. With this information and our life’s experiences something either sounds like a load of bollocks or it doesn’t. Something’s are less clear so we test the validity of what we’re told. Your saying it’s pride and not curiosity?

You then say its based on negative energy. I would say …. and so what? What difference does it make? Does finding the truth of a matter rely on positive energy? Isn’t the truth of the matter the point?

I mean (exaggerated for purpose) I wouldn’t want to abandon my home and spend the next 2 years digging a big ar$se whole to hide in, just to find out someone had told me a lie or had got something wrong.

bashi
25th April 2010, 15:23
I really don’t buy your emphasis of negative energy thing. That works well for the gullible to keep themselves deluded to realty. If a theory doesn't stack up to a few simple questions it's a waist of your energy.

Therefore why are all these underground systems being built by the so called hierarchy....if catastrophes are not going to take place...
[/QUOTE]


A sceptic will reply with this question: “How can you be sure that any of this DUMB stuff is true? If so, why dont we see them? Give me the coordinates!”

Because the sceptic will not do his homework, he has to be only a sceptic, not a seeker.

How would you judge a police-inspector, who goes out into the street and
asks the people:” Do you know of any crime? Please point the finger so that I can arrest somebody. OK, nobody? So, there is no crime! Work is done!!

Example:
Just watch all the vids of Phil Schneider; the info given; the samples he had with him; his murder cover-up with his files missing etc.
Then ask yourself: “ Can all this be just faked?”
A sceptic will say:”Of course” and that’s the end for him.
A seeker will say:”I have seen the smoke, so lets find out where the fire is.”
Thats where the adventure starts, to beat the guys who work hard to conceal the info. And these guys are dammed good...

.

Wood
25th April 2010, 15:24
Common bloody sense tells you there is no planet headed our way. Man! You would see it with the naked eye if it entered the inner solar system. I’m no sky watcher but thousand of astronomers would have alerted us of such a thing years ago. OK, you could get into a planet size Klingon cloaking device theory but that’s just preposterous.

What about the theory that Niburu is not a planet but a 'brown dwarf' star that emits no light but some heat? The 'black sun'. I do not know how many infrared telescopes are out there and how easy would be to control the people working there to not tell about their findings. Interestingly the new Lucifer telescope that is operative since last Friday, managed by the Vatican, operates in the infrared range. Also this 'black sun' might be a large spacecraft or asteroid that absorbs light somehow and thus it is not easily visible. I am not saying there is a Niburu coming towards the earth (I do not have hard evidence) but I assume it might be posible and at the same time not have been detected by many people yet.

Going back on topic, I think skeptics are anchors in the present views, and they might be useful as a reference point but change will never come from them, in particular if it is a huge paradigm change.

I have changed a lot in the last years, and the change rate have been accelerating. My intuition (and events/facts/clues/dots) tells me there is something big going on, and also I think my intuition guides my change. However, I do not know how much truth is there in each of the theories that can be found all over the internet. I am freeing myself from fear, and living in the now, why spend much time with how much is actually right about each theory? I think we can't really know at the moment the truth but as events unfold some theories will remain relevant. I also believe things should be happening at a faster rate if there is truth in all this, so we should know better soon.

Summing it up, I think most of us agree these are times of change and I believe it is important that we focus in making the change (and the outcome) positive rather than in theories. To do so we could figure out what things we dislike from the current world, what is our responsibility in how things are, and change it. Hopefully whatever emerges after the change (even if it is only an economic collapse) will be better.

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 15:25
THEREFORE it is a forum to teach skeptics that they do not have any authority ..and that they cannot set themselves as an authority with people who have a different belief system
lol[COLOR="red"]
lol

It is not possible to teach anything....to teach people has to be willing to learn...anyway don't you think that you may be a little arrogant by judging others to be arrogant and thinking that you have the right to change them?

With love and respect

Swami
25th April 2010, 15:30
Being a skeptic creates "cages" in your head. This means you will not hear "the voice" that will guide you these days. Energetic flows from the Universe are speeding up big time these days. Staying in rationality will BLOCK these energies..........

Go with the flow.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al9WmowJ3bQ

Who can I believe in,
I'm kneeling on the floor.
There has to be a force; who do I phone.
The stars are out and shining, but all I really want to know.
Oh won't you... show me the way.
I want you ...show me the way.

Its all about how much you TRUST "the voice" in your heads. You would be suprised how close ET really is............

Majorion
25th April 2010, 15:35
How would you judge a police-inspector, who goes out into the street and
asks the people:” Do you know of any crime? Please point the finger so that I can arrest somebody. OK, nobody? So, there is no crime! Work is done!!
bashi, this is not an example of skepticism, you're mostly talking about suppression, concealment, and just plain laziness with the cop story. The definitions are being heavily generalized here. A skeptic can be a seeker as well, what gives you the impression that this isn't the case?

I think you guys need to say that this the kind of skeptic you have always encountered, and be clear with the distinction.

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 15:43
[quote] Swami Being a skeptic creates "cages" in your head. This means you will not hear "the voice" that will guide you these days. Energetic flows from the Universe are speeding up big time these days. Staying in rationality will BLOCK these energies..........[/unquote]

I for one use my higher senses all the time and listen to my inner voice and it is because I listen to my inner voice that I reject much of what is "out there" but, i can not ask you to believe me because you must follow your own inner knowing

Again, I think the term skeptic is being mistaken to be interpreted as only for people that are atheist and spirituality deserves the same discipline and investigation as everything else otherwise there is potential to be deceived

Take a channeler for example, if a channeler has not learned how to differenciate energy patterns how will he/she know whether they are talking with a positive or negative entity? people say follow your feelings but feelings come from the second chakra...hello? They are the same feelings that create havoc in our lives so if we do not learn how to train our emotional body how do we know that our feelings are ours?

Discerment is required always, the inner realms are no exception and perhaps those are the places that require the most research

Love

blue777
25th April 2010, 16:00
[quote] Swami Being a skeptic creates "cages" in your head. This means you will not hear "the voice" that will guide you these days. Energetic flows from the Universe are speeding up big time these days. Staying in rationality will BLOCK these energies..........[/unquote]

I for one use my higher senses all the time and listen to my inner voice and it is because I listen to my inner voice that I reject much of what is "out there" but, i can not ask you to believe me because you must follow your own inner knowing

Again, I think the term skeptic is being mistaken to be interpreted as only for people that are atheist and spirituality deserves the same discipline and investigation as everything else otherwise there is potential to be deceived

Take a channeler for example, if a channeler has not learned how to differenciate energy patterns how will he/she know whether they are talking with a positive or negative entity? people say follow your feelings but feelings come from the second chakra...hello? They are the same feelings that create havoc in our lives so if we do not learn how to train our emotional body how do we know that our feelings are ours?

Discerment is required always, the inner realms are no exception and perhaps those are the places that require the most research

Love

I AGREE WITH SWAMI.....QUOTE:Being a skeptic creates "cages" in your head...BY THIS I THINK HE MEANS SETTING UP INTELLECTUAL AUTHORITES ...in the brain, which is PRIDE, VANITY ARROGANCE and so forth..[COLOR="red"]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

SteveX
25th April 2010, 16:12
Wood
Here’s a link I posted in another thread the other day. No need to watch the 5 min vid. Read the questions below.
http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/intro/nibiru-and-doomsday-2012-questions-and-answers

I too feel something in the air…so’s to speak. That’s one reason I hang around forums like this but I have no idea what it is I’m looking for. I do know or have knowledge and have life experiences that help me cut out the crap from the wheat.

Unfortunately there is way too much BS, disinfo, and gullible unintelligent rhetoric to cut through. If I know something isn’t right its right to dismiss it and inform those that don’t know. If I’m not sure of something and I feel it worth researching I’ll do that.

SoothSayer
25th April 2010, 16:14
Hey guys :D Didn't have time to read everyone's replies.. i will though :D

For me healthy scepticism and good discernment are a prerequisite for critical thinking & feeling, we cannot escape our own Nervous Systems.. there's no absolute truth out there, but we can reach a kind of subjective , collective , consensus on what is real and what is false . For me Scepticism means not forming beliefs until evidence starts to compel us toward a certain understanding, to KNOW a thing means to experience it where as to believe something always has a connotation of doubt. I keep an open and mind and heart, try to be aware of how my personal Reality Tunnel and cultural filters effect the object of my attention.

As the old Koan says.. if a tree falls in a forest with no one there to hear it fall, does it make a sound? we are the masters who make the grass green after all :D

Love and wisdom to all :D

Soothy

(and hi by the way , this is my first post yay )

blue777
25th April 2010, 16:32
Wood
Here’s a link I posted in another thread the other day. No need to watch the 5 min vid. Read the questions below.
http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/ask-an-astrobiologist/intro/nibiru-and-doomsday-2012-questions-and-answers

I too feel something in the air…so’s to speak. That’s one reason I hang around forums like this but I have no idea what it is I’m looking for. I do know or have knowledge and have life experiences that help me cut out the crap from the wheat.

Unfortunately there is way too much BS, disinfo, and gullible unintelligent rhetoric to cut through. If I know something isn’t right its right to dismiss it and inform those that don’t know. If I’m not sure of something and I feel it worth researching I’ll do that.

hello Steve, this is something we can agree , i agree with everything you say here
lol

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 16:33
Hey guys :D Didn't have time to read everyone's replies.. i will though :D

For me healthy scepticism and good discernment are a prerequisite for critical thinking & feeling, we cannot escape our own Nervous Systems.. there's no absolute truth out there, but we can reach a kind of subjective , collective , consensus on what is real and what is false . For me Scepticism means not forming beliefs until evidence starts to compel us toward a certain understanding, to KNOW a thing means to experience it where as to believe something always has a connotation of doubt. I keep an open and mind and heart, try to be aware of how my personal Reality Tunnel and cultural filters effect the object of my attention.

As the old Koan says.. if a tree falls in a forest with no one there to hear it fall, does it make a sound? we are the masters who make the grass green after all :D

Love and wisdom to all :D

Soothy

(and hi by the way , this is my first post yay )

Hi Soothy! agreed and welcome to Avalon :wave:

SteveX
25th April 2010, 16:49
I AGREE WITH SWAMI.....QUOTE:Being a skeptic creates "cages" in your head...BY THIS I THINK HE MEANS SETTING UP INTELLECTUAL AUTHORITES ...in the brain, which is PRIDE, VANITY ARROGANCE and so forth..[COLOR="red"]
¤=[Post Update]=¤

There’s more than one-way to create a cage in the head and one of them is believing everything your told. There comes a point when questions are appropriate. Especially when it conflicts with known knowns. Like a hooffing great big planet entering our solar system.

At what point does stating a known fact or questioning a dubious claim become pride, vanity and arrogance?

stardustaquarion
25th April 2010, 16:51
Hi Blue777

I think this video sums it up nicely, at least for me

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FkFX76M0rws&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FkFX76M0rws&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

:rapture:

blue777
25th April 2010, 16:57
thanks SDT............A VERY GOOD VID...LOL

Swanny
25th April 2010, 17:12
As the old Koan says.. if a tree falls in a forest with no one there to hear it fall, does it make a sound?


I've thought about this in the past.... If there is no one to see or hear it is it there at all?
If you walk into the forest maybe the tree didn't bother to fall down it just led down ready for you to see it?
When you pass a car at night and you can't see the driver, is anyone in the car??



Welcome to here as well :)

lightblue
25th April 2010, 19:07
depends on how much knowledge and experience your skepsis is based on.. quality of doubting depends on the doubter's educational standing... matter of choice - if you can't go independent... :yes2:

Templeton Peck
26th April 2010, 02:49
To much sanctimonious unintelligent condescending circumlocution intellectual vague pronouns trash rhetorics , sorry im running out of big words to try and convey to you im a intellectual colossus talking to people trying to sound like Bill Ryan's English great great grandfather at a after dinner speech in 1723. Because thats what passes for being a fake intellectual on the internet these days.

Less is more yee old sesquipedalian penultimates jerkoffs lol

CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language


CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language.

Ross
26th April 2010, 04:58
To much sanctimonious unintelligent condescending circumlocution intellectual vague pronouns trash rhetorics , sorry im running out of big words to try and convey to you im a intellectual colossus talking to people trying to sound like Bill Ryan's English great great grandfather at a after dinner speech in 1723. Because thats what passes for being a fake intellectual on the internet these days.

Less is more yee old sesquipedalian penultimates jerkoffs lol

CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language


CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language.

Are you referring to members here at AV2?

Ross

starsmoonmtns
26th April 2010, 06:19
JKrishnamurti.org - Daily Quote ===

Truth has no path.it is living

.We have been told that all paths lead to truth - you have your path as a Hindu and someone else has his path as a Christian and another as a Muslim, and they all meet at the same door - which is, when you look at it, so obviously absurd. Truth has no path, and that is the beauty of truth, it is living. A dead thing has a path to it because it is static, but when you see that truth is something living, moving, which has no resting place, which is in no temple, mosque or church, which no religion, no teacher, no philosopher, nobody can lead you to - then you will also see that this living thing is what you actually are - your anger, your brutality, your violence, your despair, the agony and sorrow you live in. In the understanding of all this is the truth, and you can understand it only if you know how to look at those things in your life. And you cannot look through an ideology, through a screen of words, through hopes and fears.

Freedom from the Known - 15
~~~~~~~~~

We have contributed to it in our daily lives

We are each one of us responsible for every war because of the aggressiveness of our own lives, because of our nationalism, our selfishness, our gods, our prejudices, our ideals, all of which divide us. And only when we realize, not intellectually but actually, as actually as we would recognise that we are hungry or in pain, that you and I are responsible for all this existing chaos, for all the misery throughout the entire world because we have contributed to it in our daily lives and are part of this monstrous society with its wars, divisions, its ugliness, brutality and greed - only then will we act.

Freedom from the Known - 14
~~~~~~~~~~

The whole history of man is written in ourselves

We human beings are what we have been for millions of years - -colossally greedy, envious, aggressive, jealous, anxious and despairing, with occasional flashes of joy and affection. We are a strange mixture of hate, fear and gentleness; we are both violence and peace. There has been outward progress from the bullock cart to the jet plane but psychologically the individual has not changed at all, and the structure of society throughout the world has been created by individuals. The outward social structure is the result of the inward psychological structure of our human relationships, for the individual is the result of the total experience, knowledge and conduct of man. Each one of us is the storehouse of all the past. The individual is the human who is all mankind. The whole history of man is written in ourselves.

Freedom from the Known - 13
~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have to question everything

I do not demand your faith; I am not setting myself up as an authority. I have nothing to teach you - no new philosophy, no new system, no new path to reality; there is no path to reality any more than to truth. All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary.

Freedom from the Known - 21
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Totally responsible

All outward forms of change brought about by wars, revolutions, reformations, laws and ideologies have failed completely to change the basic nature of man and therefore of society. As human beings living in this monstrously ugly world, let us ask ourselves, can this society, based on competition, brutality and fear, come to an end? Not as an intellectual conception, not as a hope, but as an actual fact, so that the mind is made fresh, new and innocent and can bring about a different world altogether? It can only happen, I think, if each one of us recognises the central fact that we, as individuals, as human beings, in whatever part of the world we happen to live or whatever culture we happen to belong to, are totally responsible for the whole state of the world.

Freedom from the Known - 14
~~~~~~~~~~~~

To change society, you must break away from it

The social pattern is set up by man; it is not independent of man, though it has a life of its own, and man is not independent of it; they are interrelated. Change within the pattern is no change at all; it is mere modification, reformation. Only by breaking away from the social pattern without building another can you 'help' society. As long as you belong to society, you are only helping it to deteriorate. All societies, including the most marvelously utopian, have within them the seeds of their own corruption. To change society, you must break away from it. You must cease to be what society is: acquisi*tive, ambitious, envious, power-seeking, and so on.

Commentaries on Living, Series III - 82
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no such thing as freedom of thought

Have you ever noticed that when you respond to something totally, with all your heart, there is very little memory? It is only when you do not respond to a challenge with your whole being that there is a conflict, a struggle, and this brings confusion and pleasure or pain. And the struggle breeds memory. That memory is added to all the time by other memories and it is those memories which respond. Anything that is the result of memory is old and therefore never free. There is no such thing as freedom of thought. It is sheer nonsense.

Freedom from the Known - 36
~~~~~~~~~~~~

A particular corner of the vast field of life

And what is yourself, the individual you? I think there is a difference between the human being and the individual. The individual is a local entity, living in a particular country, belonging to a particular culture, particular society, particular religion. The human being is not a local entity. He is everywhere. If the individual merely acts in a particular corner of the vast field of life, then his action is totally unrelated to the whole. So one has to bear in mind that we are talking of the whole not the part, because in the greater the lesser is, but in the lesser the greater is not. The individual is the little conditioned, miserable, frustrated entity, satisfied with his little gods and his little traditions, whereas a human being is concerned with the total welfare, the total misery and total confusion of the world.

Freedom from the Known - 13
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Immaturity lies only in total ignorance of self

The question of whether or not there is a God or truth or reality, or whatever you like to call it, can never be answered by books, by priests, philosophers or saviours. Nobody and nothing can answer the question but you yourself and that is why you must know yourself. Immaturity lies only in total ignorance of self. To understand yourself is the beginning of wisdom.

Freedom from the Known - 12
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Put an end to war in yourself

To put an end to outward war, you must begin to put an end to war in yourself. Some of you will nod your heads and say, "I agree," and go outside and do exactly the same as you have been doing for the last ten or twenty years. Your agreement is merely verbal and has no significance, for the world's miseries and wars are not going to be stopped by your casual assent. They will be stopped only when you realize the danger, when you realize your responsi*bili*ty, when you do not leave it to somebody else. If you realize the suffering, if you see the urgency of immediate action and do not postpone, then you will transform yourself; peace will come only when you yourself are peaceful, when you yourself are at peace with your neighbor.

The First and Last Freedom - 185
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To die to everything of yesterday

To be free of all authority, of your own and that of another, is to die to everything of yesterday, so that your mind is always fresh, always young, innocent, full of vigour and passion. It is only in that state that one learns and observes. And for this a great deal of awareness is required, actual awareness of what is going on inside yourself, without correcting it or telling it what it should or should not be, because the moment you correct it you have established another authority, a censor.

Freedom from the Known -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BE HERE NOW & LIVE IN THIS MOMENT
YOU ARE THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS

WISHING US ALL ILLUMINATING TRANSFORMATION AND SUCCESS THIS TIME AROUND THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!
PEACE

blue777
26th April 2010, 07:41
To much sanctimonious unintelligent condescending circumlocution intellectual vague pronouns trash rhetorics , sorry im running out of big words to try and convey to you im a intellectual colossus talking to people trying to sound like Bill Ryan's English great great grandfather at a after dinner speech in 1723. Because thats what passes for being a fake intellectual on the internet these days.

Less is more yee old sesquipedalian penultimates jerkoffs lol

CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language


CIRCUMLOCUTION The use of unnecessarily wordy and indirect language.

Are you trying to say that the members here are socopolitical,and have a transcandentalism,transparency,parqetry..,bona fide,disjecta membra....or to put it another way intelligent..if so carpe diem...
lol

Petut Semedhi
26th April 2010, 10:43
Hey Bluey
I had Ascencionism on my list because there are those who talk about it as if it is just going to roll up and save the day. As if they will move on up without having sorted out the ****e in the current mode of life. If we go up to the next level, I hope that it is because we have mastered this level. Imagine our foibles powered by the national grid rather than by our piddly domestic energy supply. Hence the reference to Jesus.

By the way. does ascension have a practical component, so that we (the practitioner) wont crumple at the slightest sign of difficulty ? A history, a track record, seasoned practitioners who have negotiated the minefield that is the human mind ?

Actually scepticism is indeed fairly toxic - especially when it becomes a way of life, a way of dealing with reality. I think that in the old days judgement and critical discernment were more balanced approaches.

Anyway keep on boxing old man ! You'll be out of that corner before you know it.

The Hare Krishnas have a cute saying...
'...that the sage is able to separate the milk from a mixture of snake venom and milk....'

Cheers big ears
Gg

bashi
26th April 2010, 13:30
The Hare Krishnas have a cute saying...
'...that the sage is able to separate the milk from a mixture of snake venom and milk....'

Cheers big ears
Gg

Actually the original vedic saying goes like this:


"The hansa (swan) will drink the milk and leave the water."

referring to the widespread habit in India of diluting milk with water


.

blue777
26th April 2010, 13:49
Hey Bluey
I had Ascencionism on my list because there are those who talk about it as if it is just going to roll up and save the day. As if they will move on up without having sorted out the ****e in the current mode of life. If we go up to the next level, I hope that it is because we have mastered this level. Imagine our foibles powered by the national grid rather than by our piddly domestic energy supply. Hence the reference to Jesus.

By the way. does ascension have a practical component, so that we (the practitioner) wont crumple at the slightest sign of difficulty ? A history, a track record, seasoned practitioners who have negotiated the minefield that is the human mind ?

Actually scepticism is indeed fairly toxic - especially when it becomes a way of life, a way of dealing with reality. I think that in the old days judgement and critical discernment were more balanced approaches.

Anyway keep on boxing old man ! You'll be out of that corner before you know it.

The Hare Krishnas have a cute saying...
'...that the sage is able to separate the milk from a mixture of snake venom and milk....'

Cheers big ears
Gg

never mind the old.....
quote:
.that the sage is able to separate the milk from a mixture of snake venom and milk....'......you have to recognize the snake before you can do that
rave on

Hiram
26th April 2010, 22:55
I would just remind people here, as I do in life--and by people I mean those who refute certain ideas---and after refuting take refuge in the blanket terms "I'm a Skeptic" or "I'm Skeptical" that they aren't truly skeptical at all. They are misapplying the word.

The word is derived from the Greek: skeptikós which means to inquire or to investigate. Most of whom call themselves skeptics aren't really skeptics. For instance those who claim to be skeptical about theories pertaining to 911. If you haven't investigated it...you aren't a skeptic.

I think this is an important distinction to make here.

Skeptics investigate and inquire...not merely express disbelief without having investigated.

lightblue
26th April 2010, 23:25
"Purple"]skep'-sis) n. philosophic doubt as to the objective reality of phenomena; (broadly) a skeptical outlook or attitude. from Greek skepsis...
[/I]
which is what the majority here take it to mean...also correct..


For instance those who claim to be skeptical about theories pertaining to 911. If you haven't investigated it...you aren't a skeptic.

i am curious - what would you call their position?

best l :wink:

Hiram
26th April 2010, 23:46
Thanks Blue,

Yes, the more recent use for the word, and the one adopted through the colloquialism of our age. I'm afraid that simply expressing disbelief should not be rightly called Skepticism.

It is used that way, but the overuse of the term has created a falsely legitimate pedestal from which to take refuge in an argument. The way the word is used by the common man is to legitimize disbelief, or incredulity, to make it sound scientific, and authoritative, and to lend a morally superior position in the discussion. She's "The skeptic".

This is couldn't be further from the truth in most cases, so the word is being used deceptively. Often (not always but usually) the person decrying their Skeptical status has done no such investigating--no such looking in to the knowns and unknowns, no such inquiring. They are merely projecting their worldview upon the topic at hand, and since the topic may not fit in with that worldview...they claim to be skeptical--thereby lending an undeserved air of respectability to their position.

Why is that respectability undeserving? Because after no investigation whatsoever, the so-called "Skeptic" is presenting their opinion on the topic as carrying the same weight as someone who has taken the time to look into it, to inquire, to investigate. This is duplicitous.

Now on the other hand, if the person has asked the questions, and has inquired, has identified the knowns and unknowns, and still does not believe...then they are skeptical. However someone who, after investigating, DOES believe...well by the definition of the word they too are "Skeptics". And in their case, the label is aptly applied.

Those who express disbelief in things they have not investigated should rightfully be called what they are "Disbelieving" and "Incredulous".

Then again, I'm a bit old-fashioned.[COLOR="red"]

lightblue
27th April 2010, 00:24
Those who express disbelief in things they have not investigated should rightfully be called what they are "Disbelieving" and "Incredulous".

thanks... yes, i accept that and agree...
sadly, in every day use, the language is for the most part alienated from its potential....there are thousands of other terms being used in a very loose sense to obtain advantage, advancement - fullfil some interest...it takes a conscious effort to maintain the discipline you are concerned with and i am guessing would not make a popular choice...best l :)

Templeton Peck
27th April 2010, 00:28
Thou art a bunch of muddle-mettled tottering pale-hearted coxcomb sesquipedalian penultimates, who's lean-witted sanctimonious unintelligent condescending distempered full-gorged circumlocution of vague pronouns rhetorics have me at a loss good sirs. What that say you ? do i refer to this forum as haveing circumlocution content in this abode ?
Thou has functioning retina's do you not ? gentleman of your caliber with such a vast intellect should not need to ask a gentlmen to repeat or clarify oneself

what i say is in jest of course.


it was just a joke but i feel you shouldnt need a book of latin or dead languages to translate or decipher a post that someone is full of crap on a internet forum lol any forum ,even youtube

im sorry im abit irritable in this post i have a painful lung caused by breathing in all them particles of that volcanic dust from iceland. I think i might have a PNEUMONO*ULTRA*MICRO*SCOPIC*SILICO*VOLCA which just so happens to be the longest word in any English dictionary.
i leave you with an obscure old saying from google copy and paste special

Beagan agus a ra go maith
:)
peace and love peace and love

Hiram
27th April 2010, 00:48
Thank you for sharing Templeton:p


Yes, when one has debated enough individuals about some of the more--shall we say--esoteric topics, (I guess occult would be applicable) you start to notice certain patterns.

Honestly, its difficult for many people to just express that "I haven't looked into it" rather than trying to make the universe fit within their own preconceived box.

One certainly sounds quite on top of their game, when they say "I'm a Skeptic" don't they?

Ross
27th April 2010, 01:54
Thank you TP,

However, Systemactically speaking, from a diabolical point of view, I found my fundermental faculties were sufficiently sophisticated to collaborate with your philosophy...
I did figure you were 'in jest' but felt to ask.

ok, back on topic...

Peace

lightblue
27th April 2010, 08:40
The Hare Krishnas have a cute saying...
'...that the sage is able to separate the milk from a mixture of snake venom and milk....'

Cheers big ears
Gg



Actually the original vedic saying goes like this:


"The hansa (swan) will drink the milk and leave the water."

referring to the widespread habit in India of diluting milk with water

this is a good example, thanks.

changing a meaning (by free interpreting) to suit our understanding takes us further away from it...l

viking
27th April 2010, 08:54
Hey Templeton that was brilliant!! It appeals to my sense of humour...

Ross classic!!! :becky: :heh:

viking

morguana
27th April 2010, 09:09
:lol: :lol: :lol:
thanks for the giggle folks

Majorion
27th April 2010, 10:37
One certainly sounds quite on top of their game, when they say "I'm a Skeptic" don't they?
Actually, let's take this forum as an example, how many here would you approximate are skeptics? my observation is that they are a minority here. Yet here we have this thread for what is otherwise known as the 'believer' group. Do you deny that the real intent here is to single people out (specifically named in title) and simultaneously garner support to validate beliefs? my experience is that when someone is even 'perceived' a skeptic they're usually looked down upon, anything but "on top of their game". However if the persons you've mostly come across were scorn scoffing pseudo-skeptics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism#Pseudoskepticism) with no demonstrable familiarity with the topics of debate, then please make that distinction clear.

haibane
27th April 2010, 11:55
The word is derived from the Greek: skeptikós which means to inquire or to investigate. Most of whom call themselves skeptics aren't really skeptics. For instance those who claim to be skeptical about theories pertaining to 911. If you haven't investigated it...you aren't a skeptic.
I hear you - however, I'm afraid we're observing here something called semantic shift ... Btw I consider myself a skeptic, but when I can't be bothered to investigate, I prefer to lurk. ;)

blue777
27th April 2010, 12:04
I hear you - however, I'm afraid we're observing here something called semantic shift ... Btw I consider myself a skeptic, but when I can't be bothered to investigate, I prefer to lurk. ;)

interesting point haibane, people who are not bothered to investigate a speciific altruistic area, just make their mindsup in a flash and say.."i do not believe that" or isit linked to indoctrination....

blue777
27th April 2010, 12:12
[QUOTE=Templeton Peck;13926]Thou art a bunch of muddle-mettled tottering pale-hearted coxcomb sesquipedalian penultimates, who's lean-witted sanctimonious unintelligent condescending distempered full-gorged circumlocution of vague pronouns rhetorics have me at a loss good sirs. What that say you ? do i refer to this forum as haveing circumlocution content in this abode ?
Thou has functioning retina's do you not ? gentleman of your caliber with such a vast intellect should not need to ask a gentlmen to repeat or clarify oneself
what i say is in jest of course.
it was just a joke but i feel you shouldnt need a book of latin or dead languages to translate or decipher a post that someone is full of crap on a internet forum lol any forum ,even youtube

poco a poco in vino veritas...lapsus linguae
:)

Peace of Mind
27th April 2010, 18:00
The governments have lied to us in so many ways it’s ridiculous. Once I’ve noticed their true interest, which is money and organized slavery…I lost much of my trust for them and the people who are blinded by their propaganda. When I hear of someone claiming to have very important life altering and life saving information…but lack a creative way to releasing this info to the masses (without looking for a payday)…I become very skeptical. Especially when said people claim to be the chosen/ the grounded / and symbols of spiritual greatness….but, turns around and uses fear (for his/her safety) as a reason to keep quiet or dumb down their testimonies. Sorry, but I have to say “why do these people even open up in the first place?” Is it for attention? Sure I’m open minded, but I’m also leery of absorbing disinfo and fabrications of the truth. The half hearted efforts I see in disclosing material/data can be more detrimental to our salvation than the very people/entities we claim are causing this dissension. Too many stories, Too many ideas, Too many probabilities, but no certainties…other than what we see around us….confusing and chaos…

Peace

Hiram
27th April 2010, 21:51
Actually, let's take this forum as an example, how many here would you approximate are skeptics? my observation is that they are a minority here. Yet here we have this thread for what is otherwise known as the 'believer' group. Do you deny that the real intent here is to single people out (specifically named in title) and simultaneously garner support to validate beliefs? my experience is that when someone is even 'perceived' a skeptic they're usually looked down upon, anything but "on top of their game". However if the persons you've mostly come across were scorn scoffing pseudo-skeptics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism#Pseudoskepticism) with no demonstrable familiarity with the topics of debate, then please make that distinction clear.

Honestly I have no idea how many people here are true skeptics in the classical sense. An academic guess? Perhaps 10%?

I try and take information for information's sake, and I think that when I project my ideas about other's motives, thats where I get into trouble (just like most of us). Especially when you consider not everyone is equally proficient at communicating via the English language. Some people sound deceptive and aren't. Others sound cold and distant...and can't seem to help it. Its just the way they write.

I think if one is a non-believer, one should have no fear about proclaiming it here. There are a bunch of very reasonable personalities on the board. With that being said, one has to consider one's audience when expressing ideas.

It's the way people proclaim their non-belief which makes them the target of others. Like many things in life, presentation is very important. The inverse is true as well. The way we proclaim our belief...also targets us.

We have to leave others room to maneuver, to save face, and to disagree.

There should not be any fear of ideas here. Ideas for or ideas against.

On the other hand, I work in academia, where the mere notion of many of these ideas elicits scorn and condemnation. They pride themselves on being "skeptics"..when to my mind they are no such thing.

A limited imagination, is not a virtue---physicist or no.

A healthy, inquisitive mind definitely IS a virtue.

blue777
28th April 2010, 10:02
quote
I think if one is a non-believer, one should have no fear about proclaiming it here. There are a bunch of very reasonable personalities on the board. With that being said, one has to consider one's audience when expressing ideas.

i agree with these sentiments.......lol

blue777
28th April 2010, 13:17
The governments have lied to us in so many ways it’s ridiculous. Once I’ve noticed their true interest, which is money and organized slavery…I lost much of my trust for them and the people who are blinded by their propaganda. When I hear of someone claiming to have very important life altering and life saving information…but lack a creative way to releasing this info to the masses (without looking for a payday)…I become very skeptical. Especially when said people claim to be the chosen/ the grounded / and symbols of spiritual greatness….but, turns around and uses fear (for his/her safety) as a reason to keep quiet or dumb down their testimonies. Sorry, but I have to say “why do these people even open up in the first place?” Is it for attention? Sure I’m open minded, but I’m also leery of absorbing disinfo and fabrications of the truth. The half hearted efforts I see in disclosing material/data can be more detrimental to our salvation than the very people/entities we claim are causing this dissension. Too many stories, Too many ideas, Too many probabilities, but no certainties…other than what we see around us….confusing and chaos…

Peace

thanks peace of mind I totally agree with you...lol

Rimbaud
20th May 2010, 22:58
Blue777
I spent my whole chidhood wondering if any single person existed once they were out of my line of sight. To be honest Kerrys "matrix" made way more sense then to me as a child than it does now. I simply don't end up with the same conclusions that she does.

I don't believe in the "Matrix" theory..I believe in reality and if I didn't I think I'd go mad! I don't believe in a matrix where tens of thousands of kids have to sort through rags in the **** heaps of India and Africa..knee deep in the putrecent waste of excess? What kind of matrix would allow that? What about the child stabbings in China right now...kids seem to be the target right now why's that?

To conclude, I believe that we live our nasty brutish and short lives as best as we can..then die. Personally I hope to die bravely then come back as a cooler dude than I am now!!

Cheers Blue

Rimbaud