Gestalt
28th April 2010, 01:54
There is no true freewill in atheism, or Judaeo-Christian religions. Only in Buddhism, Hindu philosophy and other brands of free-thought with the concept of reincarnation can there be true freewill. Let me ask you these simple questions:
Did you choose your gender in this lifetime?
Did you choose who your parents were going to be, did they choose you?
Did you choose what environment you were born into, what your physical characteristics are, etc.?
Unless you can answer yes to these questions you do not believe in true freewill. For there is much you did not choose of your own will.
Only in reincarnation theory can you have true free will. For the soul pre-exists life on earth and so chooses a path of development that benefits the soul most, at its given stage in evolution. Of its own freewill the soul chooses a limited framework so that it can experience a given reality within it and thereby grow. The soul chooses temporary loss of total freewill power of its own freewill.
Now this leads into one of humanities greatest mysteries and possibly one of the most difficult things to rationalize given the atheist/Judeo-Christian framework most people are coming from. That mystery is: why are some people born sick while others healthy? Why are some people born rich while others poor? In Judaeo-Christian religions God chooses for you, overriding your freewill. In atheism this occurs by random probability and thus overriding your possible freewill.
Now in reincarnation theory people actually choose to be born poor, sick etc. Souls choose such a path so that they can learn from the experiences. They choose such a path because it benefits their overall spiritual evolution. Without anything to overcome the soul simply would not grow. Some of the most difficult lifetimes offer the greatest potential for growth.
The general purpose of incarnating on planet earth is to learn about emotion and sexuality. That’s right earth is a SCHOOL for sexuality and emotions. This is the unique experience that earth offers in that it enables souls to learn how to use these tools in order to create. Thus you can easily see why majority of souls who incarnate on this planet do not choose to incarnate into a mansion lifestyle and sit around and eat grapes and drink wine all day. It’s through life’s challenges specifically in relation to others where human souls individually stand to gain the greatest amount of spiritual growth knowledge and wisdom.
Individual soul characteristics are also important. Why would souls pick places like Darfur, or a mentally retarded body? Well they have their reasons. The greatest adversity also provides the greatest potential for growth. Some souls are rather gung-ho, and pick really challenging lives spiritually and others prefer to take it easier. But nonetheless souls can not grow unless they have something to overcome. And souls choose to incarnate into situations that best match their own personal stage of evolution. For everyone has their own highly personal and specialized growth pattern.
For a moment, temporarily suspend whatever beliefs you may have and attempt to figure out why YOU may have chosen the life you have right now in order to learn the things you have chosen. Remember this most likely has something to do with your emotions, ego and sexuality. See how this impacts your life knowing full well you were the ultimate chooser of virtually almost everything that has happened to you. Remember the soul’s intelligence and wisdom is far superior to that of your own current limited illusionary perceived self. The soul knows full well what it gets itself into and all possible things that may happen to it. Under such a framework it is pretty difficult to build a victim identity for yourself knowing how much you actually chose out of your own true freewill!
Now on a side note what is also important to the discussion of freewill is relativity and its apparent limitations. For example, you cannot at the current time morph into a bird fly and fly away. You can imagine this but you cannot actually do this within the current relative physical framework which you live in. People take this physical framework for granted often thinking that’s all there is. But you could be no further from the truth. There exist many other dimensions in which the physical limitations you experience here on planet earth don’t exist. In these other dimensions you are free to create and do whatever it is that you wish and imagine. Your only limitation being that of your own creativity! You could create planets, stars, people, places, things. You could morph into whatever shape or thing you wanted. Now because such a reality has so much freedom and true freewill it cannot interact with those of others unless you choose to, and the ‘other’ also chooses too.
Now you may be curious to see what ‘others’ are possible of creating and ‘others’ experience, so you may form a contractual type of relationship where you can experience each other’s self-created realities and thus learn more about others and they about you and so you BOTH expand your potential creative knowledge. You can see why it is to your mutual benefit to interact with other forms of creative identities for the overall purpose of gaining more experience and creativity thereby evolving on every possible level.
Now this is quite simplistic, and things get much more complex. Large groups of consciousness with likeminded creative goals coalesce and form ‘families’. They then choose to create set frameworks which offer experiences unique to that particular framework. Experiences are often limited by frameworks and this is something you must understand. In order for our current physical reality to have any kind of mutual coherence among other creative consciousness some self imposed limiting framework must exist! This is an undeniable fact of life, which makes physical life as you and me experience it possible.
Imagine the havoc that would be wrecked if everyone’s imagination manifested everything they thought of right on the spot! Physical reality would quickly lose its coherence and thus the physical experience in relation to others as you experience it now would simply not be possible and cease to exist thus undoing the very reason the framework was created for in the first place!
Under the reincarnational framework birth is usually a more painful process for the soul than death. Death is a letting go of a dense physical framework and embracing of the truer freer state of being, where thought manifestation happens much quicker. Birth on the other hand is an intensely limiting experience as the soul begins to limit and confine its avenues of creation and perception. The loss of power and control can be quite frightening initially, but is understood as a necessity to live in our framework. On the other hand people that choose to commit suicide and end their physical realm contract prematurely often do so in the hope of self-annihilation in order to easy their pain. But it is important to understand that thoughts and emotions in the next dimension up from the physical dimension is much more powerful. Such souls find themselves in even more pain, for that is what their thoughts are manifesting for them without the luxury of the physical dimension to act as a grounding force for that pain. There is no escape from the emotional and spiritual lessons one has chosen to learn, circumstances will often repeat themselves until the soul learns its lessons. It’s important to understand the soul wants this for itself, that YOU want this for yourself.
Thus the temporary suspension of true and utter freewill must be embraced, for it offers unique creative experiences that cannot be experienced in any other way, especially in that of relation to millions and billions of other conscious creative entities.
Check out my other threads for more insights on reality as a construct: Universe as God (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1487-The-Universe-as-God-A-Challenge-to-your-Imagination), Nonlocal Universe (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1393-Nonlocal-Universe-Reality-as-a-Dream)
Purpose of Reincarnation Case example:
“I was once a mother with twelve children. Ignorant in terms of education, far from beautiful, particularly in later years, with a wild temper and raucous voice. This was around Jerusalem in the sixth century. The children had many fathers. I did my best to provide for them.
My name was Marshaba. We lived wherever we could, squatting in doorways and, finally, all begging. Yet in existence, physical life had a contrast, a sharpness greater than any I had known. A crust of bread was far more delicious to me than any piece of cake, however well-frosted, had ever been in lives before.
When my children laughed I was overwhelmed with delight, and despite our privations, each morning was a triumphant surprise that we had not died in our sleep, that we had not succumbed to starvation. I chose that life deliberately, as each of you choose each of yours, and I did so because my previous lives had been too blasé. I was too cushioned. I no longer focused with clarity upon the truly spectacular physical delights and experiences that earth can provide.
Though I yelled at my children and screamed sometimes in rage against the elements, I was struck through with the magnificence of existence, and learned more about true spirituality than I ever did as a monk. This does not mean that poverty leads to truth, or that suffering is good for the soul. Many who shared those conditions with me learned little. It does mean that each of you choose life conditions what you have for your own purpose, knowing ahead of time where your weaknesses and strengths lie.
In the gestalt of my personality, as in your terms I lived later richer lives, that woman was alive again in me—as, for example, the child is alive in the adult, and filled with gratitude comparing later circumstances to the earlier existences. “ ~Seth Speaks, the eternal validity of the Soul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On an interesting historical note Reincarnation used to be a part of Christianity up to 545AD! until it was systematically removed for the following reasons:
"There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cycle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the guidance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptabloe to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.
The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God." (Source (http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm))
Did you choose your gender in this lifetime?
Did you choose who your parents were going to be, did they choose you?
Did you choose what environment you were born into, what your physical characteristics are, etc.?
Unless you can answer yes to these questions you do not believe in true freewill. For there is much you did not choose of your own will.
Only in reincarnation theory can you have true free will. For the soul pre-exists life on earth and so chooses a path of development that benefits the soul most, at its given stage in evolution. Of its own freewill the soul chooses a limited framework so that it can experience a given reality within it and thereby grow. The soul chooses temporary loss of total freewill power of its own freewill.
Now this leads into one of humanities greatest mysteries and possibly one of the most difficult things to rationalize given the atheist/Judeo-Christian framework most people are coming from. That mystery is: why are some people born sick while others healthy? Why are some people born rich while others poor? In Judaeo-Christian religions God chooses for you, overriding your freewill. In atheism this occurs by random probability and thus overriding your possible freewill.
Now in reincarnation theory people actually choose to be born poor, sick etc. Souls choose such a path so that they can learn from the experiences. They choose such a path because it benefits their overall spiritual evolution. Without anything to overcome the soul simply would not grow. Some of the most difficult lifetimes offer the greatest potential for growth.
The general purpose of incarnating on planet earth is to learn about emotion and sexuality. That’s right earth is a SCHOOL for sexuality and emotions. This is the unique experience that earth offers in that it enables souls to learn how to use these tools in order to create. Thus you can easily see why majority of souls who incarnate on this planet do not choose to incarnate into a mansion lifestyle and sit around and eat grapes and drink wine all day. It’s through life’s challenges specifically in relation to others where human souls individually stand to gain the greatest amount of spiritual growth knowledge and wisdom.
Individual soul characteristics are also important. Why would souls pick places like Darfur, or a mentally retarded body? Well they have their reasons. The greatest adversity also provides the greatest potential for growth. Some souls are rather gung-ho, and pick really challenging lives spiritually and others prefer to take it easier. But nonetheless souls can not grow unless they have something to overcome. And souls choose to incarnate into situations that best match their own personal stage of evolution. For everyone has their own highly personal and specialized growth pattern.
For a moment, temporarily suspend whatever beliefs you may have and attempt to figure out why YOU may have chosen the life you have right now in order to learn the things you have chosen. Remember this most likely has something to do with your emotions, ego and sexuality. See how this impacts your life knowing full well you were the ultimate chooser of virtually almost everything that has happened to you. Remember the soul’s intelligence and wisdom is far superior to that of your own current limited illusionary perceived self. The soul knows full well what it gets itself into and all possible things that may happen to it. Under such a framework it is pretty difficult to build a victim identity for yourself knowing how much you actually chose out of your own true freewill!
Now on a side note what is also important to the discussion of freewill is relativity and its apparent limitations. For example, you cannot at the current time morph into a bird fly and fly away. You can imagine this but you cannot actually do this within the current relative physical framework which you live in. People take this physical framework for granted often thinking that’s all there is. But you could be no further from the truth. There exist many other dimensions in which the physical limitations you experience here on planet earth don’t exist. In these other dimensions you are free to create and do whatever it is that you wish and imagine. Your only limitation being that of your own creativity! You could create planets, stars, people, places, things. You could morph into whatever shape or thing you wanted. Now because such a reality has so much freedom and true freewill it cannot interact with those of others unless you choose to, and the ‘other’ also chooses too.
Now you may be curious to see what ‘others’ are possible of creating and ‘others’ experience, so you may form a contractual type of relationship where you can experience each other’s self-created realities and thus learn more about others and they about you and so you BOTH expand your potential creative knowledge. You can see why it is to your mutual benefit to interact with other forms of creative identities for the overall purpose of gaining more experience and creativity thereby evolving on every possible level.
Now this is quite simplistic, and things get much more complex. Large groups of consciousness with likeminded creative goals coalesce and form ‘families’. They then choose to create set frameworks which offer experiences unique to that particular framework. Experiences are often limited by frameworks and this is something you must understand. In order for our current physical reality to have any kind of mutual coherence among other creative consciousness some self imposed limiting framework must exist! This is an undeniable fact of life, which makes physical life as you and me experience it possible.
Imagine the havoc that would be wrecked if everyone’s imagination manifested everything they thought of right on the spot! Physical reality would quickly lose its coherence and thus the physical experience in relation to others as you experience it now would simply not be possible and cease to exist thus undoing the very reason the framework was created for in the first place!
Under the reincarnational framework birth is usually a more painful process for the soul than death. Death is a letting go of a dense physical framework and embracing of the truer freer state of being, where thought manifestation happens much quicker. Birth on the other hand is an intensely limiting experience as the soul begins to limit and confine its avenues of creation and perception. The loss of power and control can be quite frightening initially, but is understood as a necessity to live in our framework. On the other hand people that choose to commit suicide and end their physical realm contract prematurely often do so in the hope of self-annihilation in order to easy their pain. But it is important to understand that thoughts and emotions in the next dimension up from the physical dimension is much more powerful. Such souls find themselves in even more pain, for that is what their thoughts are manifesting for them without the luxury of the physical dimension to act as a grounding force for that pain. There is no escape from the emotional and spiritual lessons one has chosen to learn, circumstances will often repeat themselves until the soul learns its lessons. It’s important to understand the soul wants this for itself, that YOU want this for yourself.
Thus the temporary suspension of true and utter freewill must be embraced, for it offers unique creative experiences that cannot be experienced in any other way, especially in that of relation to millions and billions of other conscious creative entities.
Check out my other threads for more insights on reality as a construct: Universe as God (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1487-The-Universe-as-God-A-Challenge-to-your-Imagination), Nonlocal Universe (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1393-Nonlocal-Universe-Reality-as-a-Dream)
Purpose of Reincarnation Case example:
“I was once a mother with twelve children. Ignorant in terms of education, far from beautiful, particularly in later years, with a wild temper and raucous voice. This was around Jerusalem in the sixth century. The children had many fathers. I did my best to provide for them.
My name was Marshaba. We lived wherever we could, squatting in doorways and, finally, all begging. Yet in existence, physical life had a contrast, a sharpness greater than any I had known. A crust of bread was far more delicious to me than any piece of cake, however well-frosted, had ever been in lives before.
When my children laughed I was overwhelmed with delight, and despite our privations, each morning was a triumphant surprise that we had not died in our sleep, that we had not succumbed to starvation. I chose that life deliberately, as each of you choose each of yours, and I did so because my previous lives had been too blasé. I was too cushioned. I no longer focused with clarity upon the truly spectacular physical delights and experiences that earth can provide.
Though I yelled at my children and screamed sometimes in rage against the elements, I was struck through with the magnificence of existence, and learned more about true spirituality than I ever did as a monk. This does not mean that poverty leads to truth, or that suffering is good for the soul. Many who shared those conditions with me learned little. It does mean that each of you choose life conditions what you have for your own purpose, knowing ahead of time where your weaknesses and strengths lie.
In the gestalt of my personality, as in your terms I lived later richer lives, that woman was alive again in me—as, for example, the child is alive in the adult, and filled with gratitude comparing later circumstances to the earlier existences. “ ~Seth Speaks, the eternal validity of the Soul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On an interesting historical note Reincarnation used to be a part of Christianity up to 545AD! until it was systematically removed for the following reasons:
"There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cycle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the guidance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptabloe to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.
The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God." (Source (http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-pope.htm))