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manny
19th March 2011, 19:12
we claim to be here by choice,in these interesting times.
we want to be free from the ptb.
i ask you these questions.

what does being free mean to you.
could you leave and live off the grid.
support your family?
we are totatly dependant on society.
even when we think we are free ,we are not.
the web is very very tight.
and they are not about to let us go.
even if they said go on bugger off ....what would you do?
we are caught in a trap.
there will always be hierarchy .
someone telling someone what to do.
we are dependant.
we have forgot our instincts.

or we can make videos about being free and post them on you tube,and pretend we can be free.
but in reality we are all part of the system.
and if that system falls apart,as it seems it is at this time.
then the cycle starts again.

would you as a et come here and engage with humans?
if we can not get on with each other then what chance is there with et?

what difference would you make?

what difference can you make?

king anthony
19th March 2011, 19:41
we claim to be here by choice,in these interesting times.
we want to be free from the ptb.
i ask you these...

...what difference would you make?

what difference can you make?

The concept of human beings being here by (some sort of) choice is based on a belief (faith) system, which feeds human arrogance.

Many people who think they are awake only dream they are; and an example of proof is, how many people demonstrate their lack of understanding of the word 'free'; as they continue to debate the very meaning of it - like a board meeting that has gone on far too long.

The reality is, the 'establishment' (of the 'few') control civilization and people adhere to what is being imposed voluntarily, because they 'believe' they must. One can still live comfortably in this civilization, as corrupt as it is, while maintaining true sovereignty; example, feeding a family.

A hierarchy can either be by the few or by the many; this civilization is an example of how it is ruled by the few. Instincts and ability have been bred out of human beings - and furthered by conditioning, internally and externally (both in various ways).

Most are caught up in the 'feel good', which is for the moment; the example you used (videos) is one such way. When the 'feel good' stops, change will take place - as the 'pain' of actually doing something will be.

For most, the pain is 'too much' thus avoided; most would rather spend the rest of their lives suffering as slaves, 8 - 12 - 16 hours a day for the rest of their lives (with 'feel good' moments), rather then spend a fraction of it to make change - another example supporting paragraph two in this reply.

The division between human beings is not only for the benefit of the few, but also for the benefit of [your words] 'the ETs'; as the few have been side-by-side with some of these other species.

The difference one can make is to [excuse my being blunt and rude] 'shut up' and do something. When something is actually done, the difference that 'would be' made can be answered.

manny
19th March 2011, 19:46
'shut up' and do something.
exactly .
but what can we do?

king anthony
19th March 2011, 19:57
'shut up' and do something.
exactly .
but what can we do?

Some of the many can (begin) - the rest may follow (after it begins). The few... will resist.

ponda
19th March 2011, 20:01
It might be like the phenomenon where just by observing say an experiment that you can change the outcome of it.So just by observing or being aware of this reality or paradigm as it really is we can in fact change it to something different.Many are coming to be aware that things aren't right and now things are changing.As more people become aware and wake up then possibly things will change even more.If our collective consciousness changes then this change might manifest into the physical world around us.

It might be just as simple as being aware and raising our vibration.Sort of like the 100th monkey effect.Once so many people have reached some level of awareness then the rest might awaken as well.

cheers

king anthony
19th March 2011, 20:08
It might be just as simple as being aware and raising our vibration.Sort of like the 100th monkey effect.Once so many people have reached some level of awareness then the rest might awaken as well.

cheers

Is it not this type of thought what has allowed what is - to be!?

I say, the conditioning of the many has deep rooted, as most of the many believe by doing nothing - everything is accomplished.

manny
19th March 2011, 20:18
It might be like the phenomenon where just by observing say an experiment that you can change the outcome of it.So just by observing or being aware of this reality or paradigm as it really is we can in fact change it to something different.Many are coming to be aware that things aren't right and now things are changing.As more people become aware and wake up then possibly things will change even more.If our collective consciousness changes then this change might manifest into the physical world around us.

It might be just as simple as being aware and raising our vibration.Sort of like the 100th monkey effect.Once so many people have reached some level of awareness then the rest might awaken as well.

cheers
well i hope you are right.
because all i see is division.
camalot .avalon ,nexus.
all aiming for their own goals,different factions.
but do we not need to unite to be one

ponda
19th March 2011, 20:19
king anthony said:

Is it not this type of thought what has allowed what is - to be!?

I say, the conditioning of the many has deep rooted, as most of the many believe by doing nothing - everything is accomplished.


Yeah the conditioning is deep but we were all like that not too long ago.

I think that with all that is going on around the world now that people are becoming more alert to what is going on around them.With this alertness they might start to notice other things as well and start to wake up and then on it goes.

ponda
19th March 2011, 20:26
manny said:

well i hope you are right.
because all i see is division.
camalot .avalon ,nexus.
all aiming for their own goals,different factions.
but do we not need to unite to be one


Yeah well the original forum has separated but grown at the same time.This might be a blessing in disguise.Everyone is free to move around between forums and to learn and share info.The main thing is to learn from the experience.If everything was always smooth sailing then we wouldn't know what to do if a storm came along.

cheers

linz2d
19th March 2011, 20:32
Not one person on this earth has freedom yet everyone who believes they do is living a lie.

Any fool in any country who says we must protect our freedom or we must fight for freedom yet still prides themselves as being a citizen of a country needs to look at what freedom truly is. For example a crow squawking outside my window has more freedom than I do. As it can go anywhere and do anything it pleases. It is not controlled by a government it does not pay taxes. It does not rely on a supermarket for its food(some crows do :becky:), it does not rely on fuel. It does not need currency or material standing. It does not need a passport to cross borders.

If people truly want to be free they must give up almost everything which they hold dear this includes our dependencies in our everyday life. They must give up their homes and their cars, give up the Internet, give up their iphone, give up their designer cloths, give up the doctor and the dentist and anything that makes life easy.

The moment when nomadic man became a settler is when he gave up his freedom. In this day and age there is no such thing as freedom, we are all bound by something.

A free person does not have a country, nor a fixed home they do not care about material wealth and only where they will find next to meal to fill their stomach. They do not care about such things as laws and governments. The do not have health care. They do not care about social standing nor what others think of them. They rely solely on their selves for everything. True freedom can be very lonely but if this person ends up meeting someone and falls in love they then give up their freedom willingly and when they have children more freedom is given up.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no such thing as "freedom"or "being free", its just an ideal which we humans like to through around. In most cases when people shout about protecting their freedoms, they are referring to their way of life, ideals and their rights.

manny
19th March 2011, 20:35
Not one person on this earth has freedom yet everyone who believes they do is living a lie.

Any fool in any country who says we must protect our freedom or we must fight for freedom yet still prides themselves as being a citizen of a country needs to look at what freedom truly is. For example a crow squawking outside my window has more freedom than I do. As it can go anywhere and do anything it pleases. It is not controlled by a government it does not pay taxes. It does not rely on a supermarket for its food(some crows do :becky:), it does not rely on fuel. It does not need currency or material standing. It does not need a passport to cross borders.

If people truly want to be free they must give up almost everything which they hold dear this includes our dependencies in our everyday life. They must give up their homes and their cars, give up the Internet, give up their iphone, give up their designer cloths, give up the doctor and the dentist and anything that makes life easy.

The moment when nomadic man became a settler is when he gave up his freedom. In this day and age there is no such thing as freedom, we are all bound by something.

A free person does not have a country, nor a fixed home they do not care about material wealth and only where they will find next to meal to fill their stomach. They do not care about such things as laws and governments. The do not have health care. They do not care about social standing nor what others think of them. They rely solely on their selves for everything. True freedom can be very lonely but if this person ends up meeting someone and falls in love they then to give up their freedom willingly and when they have children more freedom is given up.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no such thing as "freedom"or "being free", its just an ideal which we humans like to through around. In most cases when people shout about protecting their freedoms, they are referring to their way of life, ideals and their rights.
in a nutshell thank you.

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 20:38
The concept of "freedom" like so many other things has been commandeered and used against the people without their even realizing it. The fact of our living in this dimension as physical beings with certain needs and limitations circumscribes "freedom" radically. The extent to which we identify with our physical selves and THIS LIFE without detachment defines the extent of our enslavement, a self-imposed - perhaps without even realizing it - enslavement. And yet the human spirit ever longs for freedom. This longing cannot be squelched. The key to freedom is detachment from THIS. Taking on the role of sacred observer, for example, provides some detachment - and observers DO in fact measurably influence the outcome of experiments like this one.

Chicodoodoo
19th March 2011, 20:40
'shut up' and do something.
exactly .
but what can we do?

We create a new system that serves the common good.

manny
19th March 2011, 20:42
The concept of "freedom" like so many other things has been commandeered and used against the people without their even realizing it.
please elaborate

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 20:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm_N3bjqlr4

manny
19th March 2011, 20:43
'shut up' and do something.
exactly .
but what can we do?

We create a new system that serves the common good.
ok go fo it how

manny
19th March 2011, 20:48
what we need is a new flower power.
a passive resistance.
our aim to move on and evolve.
to join in unity.
who,s gonna start it.

ponda
19th March 2011, 20:53
Maybe freedom is just a state of mind.

The open minded person who has limited mobility and choice might be more free than the wealthy person who has greater mobility and choice but is narrow minded.

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 20:54
The concept of "freedom" like so many other things has been commandeered and used against the people without their even realizing it.
please elaborate

as one example, during the American Revolutionary war period, the elites used the common people's desire for "freedom" (in this particular case, freedom from the oppressive economic policies of the Crown) to foment a revolution against Great Britain that placed THEM (the elites in the Colonies) in charge. As the WHO put it - "meet the New Boss - the same as the Old Boss." People have been exploited by the clever use of the idea of "freedom" - and the very concept of "freedom" has often been used to enslave. Fast Forward to now - witness the Current "War on Terror" where terroristic tactics are being used against people supposedly to "free" them.................often replacing one diktator with another one.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:00
i want to make a difference in this life ...all i need is direction.

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 21:02
Freedom is a feeling. It has nothing to do with circumstances.:playball:

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 21:03
Manny you do make a difference by the fact that you exist now. You stand as a unique being among all creations of heaven you are unique - and by everything you think, say and do, you exert influence on all of creation (the butterfly effect) and so you are a sleeping giant. You, me and others, together we are powerful and a force for good. And, on the energetic level, we are ONE. In that sense, awakening to who and what we are is the greatest secret of all, and in that sense - we all, individually and collectively create THIS reality. It can be a Heaven, or it can be a pure Hell. It is up to us.

And where we have the power, whether we realize it or not, IS IN THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE we have. Even if we do not realize it, we are exercising that freedom in each thought, word and deed. It is a tiny area of freedom, to be sure................creation is vast. But in that tiny area, we can ignite powerful forces for good, or for evil.

The choice is ours to make - and make it we do, even if we do not realize it, each moment we breathe.

Chicodoodoo
19th March 2011, 21:08
please elaborate

JFK had a great idea when he created the "Silver Certificate", a U.S. Treasury Note that was backed by silver. He knew that if people had a choice of money, between the Federal Reserve Note (backed by nothing) and the U.S. Treasury Note (backed by precious metal), the Federal Reserve Note would fade out of existence, and the Federal Reserve would no longer run the country. Of course, the global elite running the Federal Reserve knew what a threat that was to their monopoly on power, so they had JFK publicly executed and quietly withdrew the Silver Certificates from circulation.

The current system is much like the Federal Reserve Note (both are corrupt and collapsing). We need to create a new system, much like the Silver Certificate, that will give people a choice. Initially, the new system is only an idea, a virtual system with no power. Both systems will run in parallel at first, but it won't take long for people to withdraw their support from the corrupt system run for the benefit of the controllers and transfer their support to the new system that is run for the benefit of all.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:08
sorry i meant .
to be part of group that will make a difference.
and be actively involved in a greater change for humanity.

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:10
ok go fo it how

In brief.

1st: One must learn and understand how to think different; then make a plan to think for themselves, meaning not rely on others (example, the government) doing for them - a great responsibility.

2nd: One must learn and understand what laws they will be governed by; Natural Law is the law all should be governed by - basically, it is, that all people (things) have the right to life; this alone covers much.

Notice and direction should be given to the 'ruling class' regarding such things as 'putting government materials under seal' when they are returned; with 'Affidavits of Service' (evidence to be relied on as proof that this has been done); and that any third parties to debts are to be responsible for 'repayment', such as the 'tax-person', to which they are a party of.

3rd: One must give notice to the 'ruling class' by way of a formal 'Declaration of Independence', served to various levels of 'authority' both domestic and abroad - again with 'Affidavits of Service'.

4th: One must be prepared to educated those responsible for enforcing the 'laws' that have been, as they may not know or understand what is.

All this can be done using common wording and minimal knowledge of how things are now. Keep in mind - no one had entered into the 'agreement' knowingly or willing, therefore are not obligated by 'their' procedures. Keep the 'fight for freedom' within the abilities of the common, and keep it simple.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:11
please elaborate

JFK had a great idea when he created the "Silver Certificate", a U.S. Treasury Note that was backed by silver. He knew that if people had a choice of money, between the Federal Reserve Note (backed by nothing) and the U.S. Treasury Note (backed by precious metal), the Federal Reserve Note would fade out of existence, and the Federal Reserve would no longer run the country. Of course, the global elite running the Federal Reserve knew what a threat that was to their monopoly on power, so they had JFK publicly executed and quietly withdrew the Silver Certificates from circulation.

The current system is much like the Federal Reserve Note (both are corrupt and collapsing). We need to create a new system, much like the Silver Certificate, that will give people a choice. Initially, the new system is only an idea, a virtual system with no power. Both systems will run in parallel at first, but it won't take long for people to withdraw their support from the corrupt system run for the benefit of the controllers and transfer their support to the new system that is run for the benefit of all.
it has happened time and time again.
they will not let us be free.
and will eliminate all that oppose them.

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 21:13
sorry i meant .
to be part of group that will make a difference.
and be actively involved in a greater change for humanity.

Well there are so many groups working for positive change...........at all levels. Whatever you enjoy doing, whatever you feel your strengths are, you have many opportunities to put your shoulder to the wheel......................if you enjoy gardening, as just one example - the whole community organic gardening/heirloom seeds movement is there..........if you like politics, pick your horse and jump into the fray - the best thing about it is you can actually enjoy yourself while making a contribution. The roles of "leaders" "soldiers" and - especially "martyrs" are not necessarily the ones that each of us are suited to play.

The metaphor of the ants in the jungle is always informative in this regard...........ants are very tiny and as we know extremely hard-working if invisible on the forest floor. The lordly elephant is afraid of only a few things, and ants are one of them..................and an army of ants working busily can overcome all obstacles.

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:15
they will not let us be free.
and will eliminate all that oppose them.

I say, who is at fault if this be fact!?

manny
19th March 2011, 21:22
tptb.
they do not want anyone to influence the majority.
bang your gone.

SKAWF
19th March 2011, 21:23
when i found out, i used to ask people whether they thought they were mind controlled. most, even myself said no.
well we like to think we are in command of our own experience dont we?.
those that control this world, were in charge of things before you were born.
all the state, and global systems were in place by the time you got here.
the world you were born into is their construct.
and for the first few years, you were on the rails they set,
and you were reacting to the things they presented you with.
the experiences you have learned from, originated from them.

if they had never been there,
or if your experience had been free from their interference,
all of your learning would have been based around your own experiences
but that wasnt how things happened was it?.

at some point (in my experience) we may have become aware of that,
and actively sought to take control of our own destiny.
i believe at that point we free ourselves.
even if only in spirit.

its possible to hypnotise someone, and to make them bark like a dog.
to take control of someones free free will, but to have that person completely unaware of it.
if the individual were to realise that they were being controlled,
and they were to break out of that, then they would be free.

i dont know who said it, but it was something like

there are none so helplessly imprisoned, as those who falsly believe they are free.

if i were given the choice,
i would much rather be incarcerated and have my own free will,
than be totally mind controlled, but free from physical restraints.

'dreams is freedom innit' (norman stanley fletcher)

steve

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:28
tptb.
they do not want anyone to influence the majority.
bang your gone.

True... however, I'm still here (not been easy)... for now.

Be positive in thought, and I say this not in a 'belief/faith/opinion' type of way; thousands of years ago people just 'did' to survive... why did this change!?

I say, is it easier to say it is too hard, out of fear, thus do nothing - or is it a 'test' of one's self to do something.

ponda
19th March 2011, 21:28
tptb.
they do not want anyone to influence the majority.
bang your gone.

It is quite possible that the least free of all are indeed the tptw themselves

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:30
It is quite possible that the least free of all are indeed the tptw themselves

Very true... they are slaves not only to what they have 'created' but to 'those' they serve.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:30
tptb.
they do not want anyone to influence the majority.
bang your gone.

True... however, I'm still here (not been easy)... for now.

Be positive in thought, and I say this not in a 'belief/faith/opinion' type of way; thousands of years ago people just 'did' to survive... why did this change!?

I say, is it easier to say it is too hard, out of fear, thus do nothing - or is it a 'test' of one's self to do something.
i read your book and i feel you were not a threat.but was used for whatever their plan was.

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 21:31
While discussing this subject, maybye a little entertainment.:hug:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pa1QvSD440

Herbert
19th March 2011, 21:32
Sorry. I know the old paradox - less is more. :>))
Whenever a soul chooses to enter a human body, it decides to give up freedom to some degree. I mean as soon as the body gets sick you lose a great deal of freedom depending upon how serious or chronic - how dependent you are on pills to keep your body alive. Then you have a choice of going on in dependency (loss of freedom) or giving up and choosing death. So no one is ever going to be completely free during an incarnation, yet the soul chose to incarnate on Earth. We don't really know what it is like between lives. Is it so painfull between lives that we are willing to give up freedom in order to face another life, or is what we learn so wonderful that it is worth a period of non-freedom? True freedom is more about our attitude to the novelties which present themselves. How gratefull we are for the opportunity to learn is really the determining factor as to how free we are. We create the world we live in but we forget that. So we are now being reminded of how badly we have created. Not all of us needed the lesson to wake up. Obviously those at Avalon chose to learn that lesson in this lifetime. Others may already know that lesson from past lives and are here to learn something else. They are the ones who say: "Yes I know about the control but love is more important; so get on with sharing the grounded love in your daily life and do not give power to the control freaks. Give them all the rope they feel they need and they will be their own undoing. Stop giving them so much credence."

The question of 'how' we free ourselves from this pyramidal control is the problem. Will they really cut their own throats? Did the earthquake in Japan which they created actually do Earth a favour by permitting a badly needed release of pent-up energy? Would it be a good idea to form a group for directing conscious intention toward the biggest offenders like Monsanto? I don't know, it doesn't quite feel right to me.
As far as E.T.s go, I do not expect a ship arriving to lift us to safety and if it did arrive I would chose to stay with Earth as it moves into 5th dimension. Yes we have spiritual guides and our own higher consciousness which can be a very powerful physical force. We do not really need E.T. intervention and I think the good ones are wise enough to know that.

People rebuilding for themselves in South America and Japan, etc. is a common theme. As they repair the buildings working together, they are also healing themselves. It makes perfect sense.

"Living through a physical shock includes the feeling of being completely powerless in the face of awesome forces. The best way to recover from helplessness turns out to be helping." Naomi Klein

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:37
i read your book and i feel you were not a threat.but was used for whatever their plan was.

You have not read the other books, which continues where the other ones ended.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:38
i read your book and i feel you were not a threat.but was used for whatever their plan was.

You have not read the other books, which continues where the other ones ended.
you,ve not posted them

Chicodoodoo
19th March 2011, 21:39
it has happened time and time again.
they will not let us be free.
and will eliminate all that oppose them.

No, they will not let us be free. And that is why a new system is inevitable.

Yes, they will eliminate all that oppose them. And that is why we do not oppose them. We simply offer the people a choice. Once the people have chosen, it is highly likely that the controllers will no longer have anyone willing to listen to them, much less do their dirty work.

king anthony
19th March 2011, 21:46
you,ve not posted them

I sent you a PM.

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 21:46
There will be people knowing how to do things !

People need to learn the way of nature and self.

What is true freedom ? It is in the heart, in the spirit.

It is true there is no free people on the globe now all is full of borders and regulations and taxes and laibor.

If you have some resposibility you are not free, well that is not true because as free loving individuals give freely their energy to others out of love and compassion.

I do not see work as a problem its part of the joy of being together.

It is also a way of being.

Work becomes a problem if there is no reason for doing it lac of joy or inspiration.

What I can do ? Learn others how to grow seeds, animals, a lots of hand craft, what to eat in the wild.
I belive all can teach something to some one.

Money is not freedom- its a trap You cant eat money or gold Silly

All knowledge is in the people of earth, new clean teknik is already on the planet and its time to put it in to use.

It is time to support this new teknologie !

Water that runs cars (off cause also can be used to all other engins) and energy in a box in every home no more electric bill.

It is not us going back to stone age , but I see it can be some time when all is rumbling before this new can come.

manny
19th March 2011, 21:54
There will be people knowing how to do things !

People need to learn the way of nature and self.

What is true freedom ? It is in the heart, in the spirit.

It is true there is no free people on the globe now all is full of borders and regulations and taxes and laibor.

If you have some resposibility you are not free, well that is not true because as free loving individuals give freely their energy to others out of love and compassion.

I do not see work as a problem its part of the joy of being together.

It is also a way of being.

Work becomes a problem if there is no reason for doing it lac of joy or inspiration.

What I can do ? Learn others how to grow seeds, animals, a lots of hand craft, what to eat in the wild.
I belive all can teach something to some one.

Money is not freedom- its a trap You cant eat money or gold Silly

All knowledge is in the people of earth, new clean teknik is already on the planet and its time to put it in to use.

It is time to support this new teknologie !

Water that runs cars (off cause also can be used to all other engins) and energy in a box in every home no more electric bill.

It is not us going back to stone age , but I see it can be some time when all is rumbling before this new can come.
imo its about finding ourselfs .
take off your shoes,let you soles of your feet connect with mother earth.
what will be will be

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 21:57
tptb.
they do not want anyone to influence the majority.
bang your gone.

Then my words will reach the hearts of the ones in the mists of Avalon !

We are to many, they cant stop this. Its global.

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 21:58
Fredom is a feeling. It has nothing to do with circumstances.:playball:

We can of course discuss wot ideeas you have about wot must be put right

before you can feel free. And of course discuss wot hinders you.

Then when we have discussed this for some weeks we can arrive where we

started. Freedom is a feeling in your chest. Either you realize that you are free

or not. And if not, nothing you change outside yourself will make a change.

You are wots hindes you, no one else. :kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:

manny
19th March 2011, 21:59
you,ve not posted them

I sent you a PM.
imo you are a victim of a greater force that feeds on your negative energy.
this feeding may take in 2 year cycles.
your energy is for them.

king anthony
19th March 2011, 22:06
imo you are a victim of a greater force that feeds on your negative energy.
this feeding may take in 2 year cycles.
your energy is for them.

The PMs should put things into perspective. I don't wish to end up being a topic of discussion here - thanks :)

This is about... freedom!?

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 22:08
The freedom human beings have is this and only this: we have in the moment, in the eternal NOW, the freedom of choice, of "free will" to think, speak and act in certain ways. THAT is the freedom we have. It is NOT an emotional state - something that we "feel" - freedom exists on the level of volition, i.e. ACTION. In this way our reality is created individually and collectively. And - there are literally an infinite number of choices or options available to us even if we do not know that. Our enslavement, if such exists, lies in our lack of awareness of this fact - and the extent to which our ignorance causes us to create a hell for ourselves in ignorance - and also permits our energies and very lives to be exploited - again out of ignorance - by others.

bilko
19th March 2011, 22:16
Maybe freedom will come when we are allowed off this planet.
Why not now? maybe we are not ready, we think we are but maybe we are not.
Maybe we are not evolved enough to even be called human or maybe human is the precursor to freedom.

Maybe we are tadpoles in a jar waiting to be set free in the pond and after, the garden, woods, forest...

Its beginning to suck being a tadpole knowing there is a forest out there with an inkling i could turn into a frog too.

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 22:16
The freedom human beings have is this and only this: we have in the moment, in the eternal NOW, the freedom of choice, of "free will" to think, speak and act in certain ways. THAT is the freedom we have. It is NOT an emotional state - something that we "feel" - freedom exists on the level of volition, i.e. ACTION. In this way our reality is created individually and collectively. And - there are literally an infinite number of choices or options available to us even if we do not know that. Our enslavement, if such exists, lies in our lack of awareness of this fact - and the extent to which our ignorance causes us to create a hell for ourselves in ignorance - and also permits our energies and very lives to be exploited - again out of ignorance - by others.

Dear Ahkenaten. Every human has the freedom to act every moment.

Nothing can hinder humans from acting.

There is price-tag attached to every action though.

BTW. Are they still learning?:ranger:

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 22:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI1TwpY682A&feature=fvsr

manny
19th March 2011, 22:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI1TwpY682A&feature=fvsr
nice vid but are we not caught in a spiders web where you think you are free

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 22:25
Maybe freedom will come when we are allowed off this planet.
Why not now? maybe we are not ready, we think we are but maybe we are not.
Maybe we are not evolved enough to even be called human or maybe human is the precursor to freedom.

Maybe we are tadpoles in a jar waiting to be set free in the pond and after, the garden, woods, forest...

Its beginning to suck being a tadpole knowing there is a forest out there with an inkling i could turn into a frog too.

You know every tadpole absorb the nourishment stored in the tail during

his transformation. When this is done you are welcome in the forrest.:welcome:

king anthony
19th March 2011, 22:28
If I may say, the topic of this thread is freedom from the 'establishment' in this civilization - not a 'spiritual' freedom, as one differs from the other.

However, to add as a side note here; how can one seek and obtain 'spiritual' freedom (based on a faith or belief) when they cannot even free the 'flesh and blood' of their existence!?

Is running learned before walking, is walking learned before standing, is standing learned before crawling and is crawling learned before simply 'being'!?

I say, if people want change in this civilization, then they must take the first step and keep walking and run (forward) when needed.

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 22:34
The freedom human beings have is this and only this: we have in the moment, in the eternal NOW, the freedom of choice, of "free will" to think, speak and act in certain ways. THAT is the freedom we have. It is NOT an emotional state - something that we "feel" - freedom exists on the level of volition, i.e. ACTION. In this way our reality is created individually and collectively. And - there are literally an infinite number of choices or options available to us even if we do not know that. Our enslavement, if such exists, lies in our lack of awareness of this fact - and the extent to which our ignorance causes us to create a hell for ourselves in ignorance - and also permits our energies and very lives to be exploited - again out of ignorance - by others.

Dear Ahkenaten. Every human has the freedom to act every moment.

Nothing can hinder humans from acting.

There is price-tag attached to every action though.

BTW. Are they still learning?:ranger:

Jorr I would personally rather not commoditize action. ("price tagging" it) This is NOT a material world. Who knows what people learn? We can only hope for the best. If the time is right it will happen. People actually do not hear things until they are ready to hear them. That is the paradox of "learning" because the truth surrounds us at all times. That means that something inside a person must ripen in order to "hear." So the whole auditory/learning process is entirely internal - information alone will fall on deaf ears until the mind/spirit is ready to hear.

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 22:34
manny
nice vid but are we not caught in a spiders web where you think you are free


I can not be totaly free as long as the world is not !

But my spirit fly free. And I am free in me !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaqcRRg1jI&feature=related

jorr lundstrom
19th March 2011, 22:35
Aha, you are discussion freedom from something.

I can see where that will ultimately end.

So I thank you for being able to participate.

And I wish you good luck in your endavours to change things.:hail:

sllim11
19th March 2011, 22:42
"And yet the human spirit ever longs for freedom. This longing cannot be squelched. The key to freedom is detachment from THIS." ahkenaten

ah yes. the "longing". from my experience this longing is also what sends people on the search for their soul-mate, with OUT. I am my soulmate, with IN. I AM. so to detach from all of the preconceived notions. detatch from ALL preconceived notions of "longing", "soul-mate", "freedom", et cetera ad nauseum. this leads to an open mind. and there you go... open mind leads to more freedom, the chains loosen.

Ahkenaten
19th March 2011, 22:48
Aha, you are discussion freedom from something.

I can see where that will ultimately end.

So I thank you for being able to participate.

And I wish you good luck in your endavours to change things.:hail:

And I sincerely wish you luck in your efforts as well. God willing we will all meet in paradise in the end where there are no boundaries, no deceptions, no lies.

sllim11
19th March 2011, 22:57
Originally Posted by jorr lundstrom
"Aha, you are discussion freedom from something."

indeed and en pointe. freedom from.... ?

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 23:01
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to loose.

No One can just let go of everything it will have the same effect.

Let go of the old and let something new grow in the heart !

We have one planet She is the our playground, gives us the food water all that we have in the material world.
Our body belongs to her !

We are spirits and the way of the spirit is Love and compassion.

We should learn to love our self and love our great planet.

We should not produce tings that harms nature and what ever we do produce should have a recycle plan.

All is from her.

We have been here and let criminals to power and let them rule.

Why ? because we didnt know better, we didnt see other ways, now is the time to change as we DO se other ways.
We also see what they do, and what they have done. This must end.

Yes the big change starts with in.

Be the change !

Maria Stade
19th March 2011, 23:08
Ahkenaten
God willing we will all meet in paradise in the end where there are no boundaries, no deceptions, no lies.

Paradise is with in :luv:

Lunar
19th March 2011, 23:38
I think freedom is born from much sadness - we are brought up by parents expecting their sons and daughters to conform to society, to its unwritten laws, the american dream or whatever you want to call it. Our conventional teachers also pass on these expectations, as do our siblings, our friends, law providers, employers etc in this perpetuating cycle of conformity. Many people know the system is corrupt and meaningless. They choose not to think and it is renegated to the back of the mind like a mild irritation - a blister they can't stop picking but only dimly aware of its presence, as they pick it in a trance. This indoctrination is passed on to the next generation and the next, breaking free of this and walking an alternative path is like smashing all your loved ones' bubbles and benevolent expectations for you with a sledge hammer. This is too far out of most people's comfort zone, the pain of disappointing their family and friends is a very great force in protecting this hierachical, corrupt paradigm.

Perhaps people need to learn to be free at differing levels that is more acceptable - like a slow drip feed and not a sledge hammer.

Thank you for citing the silver dollary currency - I hadn't heard of this before and it could be used as a great example of how a united force of people worldwide (such as the Avalon network) could campaign to their governments for an alternative way. As raising awareness of free energy and the tesla coil. We could create a movement for a freer way of life than the one we currently have and slow build its awareness.

Or we could all just meditate and hope that enough people are awake, for some vibrational force to come and save us and somehow dislodge this paradigm...unlikely people.

manny
20th March 2011, 00:29
who is gonna start the change.
lets do this.
across the nations.

change is happening now.
we either go with it or we change it.
how passionate are you.

do you believe we can change this world.

MariaDine
20th March 2011, 00:35
we claim to be here by choice,in these interesting times.
we want to be free from the ptb.
i ask you these questions.

what does being free mean to you.
could you leave and live off the grid.
support your family?
we are totatly dependant on society.
even when we think we are free ,we are not.
the web is very very tight.
and they are not about to let us go.
even if they said go on bugger off ....what would you do?
we are caught in a trap.
there will always be hierarchy .
someone telling someone what to do.
we are dependant.
we have forgot our instincts.

or we can make videos about being free and post them on you tube,and pretend we can be free.
but in reality we are all part of the system.
and if that system falls apart,as it seems it is at this time.
then the cycle starts again.

would you as a et come here and engage with humans?
if we can not get on with each other then what chance is there with et?

what difference would you make?

what difference can you make?

Better brush up your Shakespear

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
----------
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
--------------
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
-------------------------
It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves
-------------------------------------------
Every subject's duty is the king's, but every subjects soul is his own."
- William Shakespeare ("Henry V")

Lunar
20th March 2011, 00:35
I'll try anything once! I'll repeat a famous analogy of how unwitting complicity works - if you put a frog in a pan of boiling water, it will immediately jump out. Now if you put the frog in a pan of luke warm water and slowly boil it, it won't jump out. Big change in a subtle, incremental, consistent and constant way perhaps?

manny
20th March 2011, 00:42
i am me.
i am not a game to played.
i want freedom.
but at what price i do not know..

never read shakespear.

manny
20th March 2011, 00:52
i am me.
i am not a game to played.
i want freedom.
but at what price i do not know..

never read shakespear.

at the end of the day we are sat round a big table(the internet) discussing this and that and doing nothing.

Maria Stade
20th March 2011, 01:03
Lunar
Or we could all just meditate and hope that enough people are awake, for some vibrational force to come and save us and somehow dislodge this paradigm...unlikely people

Yes we are working with the energies, meditating and so on but no one is sawing anyone !

All need to take charge of their own well being and life !

Yes we have been like th frogs in the water ! Time to jump out !

These are no easy ways and the question can one do the right thing with out bumping in to problems.

We tent to do and say as we have been taught by the program as the generation before us.

Yes there is so much sadness in the hidden but I have learned that this can be healed as the truth is spoken.

Not easy not at all !

Love

Maria

Lunar
20th March 2011, 01:05
Structured, worldwide campaigning for things that can slowly set us free and offer that vision of a free world to others - a movement. Creating awareness of things that can help in people's day to day lives so it is relevant to them. Such as free energy devices - know how; seed exchange and practical knowledge of growing food - more allotments or free land; currency backed up by something, such as silver, an alternative to the fed; more practical and holistic education, herb law and healing etc etc. Within this forum are so many creative minds from all different walks of life, let's get our heads together!! Suggest practical solutions or some sort of vision???

I think there is alot of power in this forum already so let's harness it!

manny
20th March 2011, 01:11
one vision

a true education.
a goal for humanity.
disclosure.
to reach for the stars.
to understand where you are and where you belong in the grand scheme of things.

any more ideas are welcome

Lunar
20th March 2011, 01:15
I think be quiet about disclosure. For now. It wouldn't give us any credence. I think a movement has to relate to people - in an effort to wake them up, we don't want to scare people or come accross as nutcases.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

anyway, I'm off to beddy byes now Manny but I think this is an important thread. Night

MariaDine
20th March 2011, 01:46
i am me.
i am not a game to played.
i want freedom.
but at what price i do not know..

never read shakespear.



at the end of the day we are sat round a big table(the internet) discussing this and that and doing nothing.

:) I come here to meet my Friends !!! Namasté


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbrdojDwzoM&feature=related

Chicodoodoo
20th March 2011, 01:55
at the end of the day we are sat round a big table(the internet) discussing this and that and doing nothing.

Action is the natural result of an idea. But first, the idea!

MariaDine
20th March 2011, 02:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tC-Ha0IRWk&feature=related

Here is an idea. The wheel of Fortune and The «Dance macabre»-. The teaching of the Wheel of Karma/Reencarnation in disguise during medieval times. The problem of freedom through the historical ages. We are in an historical Age Now. Freedom and Geting out of the Whell of karma NOW.

Stuart M.
20th March 2011, 02:29
Good golly there is a lot I'd love to say. Could probably write a book.. and probably wouldn't sell.

Any way a about 5 yrs. ago I came to the conclusion that in this universe anything goes or at least where we find ourselves now. After mulling over many fine contributions on this thread, I don't believe we ever lost any freedom. I think what we see in the world today is a group of people who are better at using freedom to achieve their goals. Remember I operate on the premise that anything goes and they have pretty well proven out that they are willing to do most anything and evidence would seem to clearly show they are absoluteky free to do so.

The good , bad and indifference to freedom all plays side by side here on earth. And most cleverly the majority have been conditioned to further the agenda of the maybe not so desireable, as pointed out in earlier posts. The facade has grown thin. And in my opinion the big change can only occur when a very large mass of people realize that the consequences for not acting on the more gracious aspects of freedom are greater than acting on the aspects that create power ,greed and dishonour. To me freedom is never in question, only how it's going to be used. Extreme discretion is advised.

Noble Hops
20th March 2011, 02:52
If I may say, the topic of this thread is freedom from the 'establishment' in this civilization - not a 'spiritual' freedom, as one differs from the other.

Good book on that topic (can read it free on line):

http://media.artdiamondblog.com/images2/HowIFoundFreedomBK.jpg

MariaDine
20th March 2011, 03:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAykOz1gWi4

giovonni
20th March 2011, 06:23
From manny

"what does being free mean to you"

being able to be here in the now with you all during this free falling called life

http://walktalkchewgum.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/freefalling-21.jpg