Be as you truly are 14. Fluoride cannot effect consciousness.

[Tony]

I forgot to say, nothing can have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride cannot have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride or any chemical does have an effect on the body or brain. If ,WE identify with the body or brain then want happens to the brain or body does seem to have an effect on us. But it is not true.

We say we have a cold. NO, the body has the cold...you do not! Your brain can be addled by alcohol but the consciousness is still aware. You have been taught wrongly that your are your body and brain. People even think they are the accumulation of their thoughts this is totally wrong. This just builds up pride and conflict.....especially with men!!!

The danger is becoming what you believe or are taught.

This is why it is extremely important to see the body/brain is separate from consciousness.

True happiness means that inner state that no outside force can affect.
It does not rely on conditions.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Sorry, just spotted the spelling error. AFFECT not EFFECT....!

[sjkted]

Let me ask you ... if you get drunk or high on drugs, does that affect your consciousness? LSD used to be branded as a "consciousness altering" drug.

--sjkted

[Lord Sidious]

I forgot to say, nothing can have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride cannot have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride or any chemical does have an effect on the body or brain. If ,WE identify with the body or brain then want happens to the brain or body does seem to have an effect on us. But it is not true.

We say we have a cold. NO, the body has the cold...you do not! Your brain can be addled by alcohol but the consciousness is still aware. You have been taught wrongly that your are your body and brain. People even think they are the accumulation of their thoughts this is totally wrong. This just builds up pride and conflict.....especially with men!!!

The danger is becoming what you believe or are taught.

This is why it is extremely important to see the body/brain is separate from consciousness.

True happiness means that inner state that no outside force can affect.
It does not rely on conditions.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Sorry, just spotted the spelling error. AFFECT not EFFECT....!

I just noticed that if I mess with your handle, it can read pineal.

[Tony]

Dear Sjkted,
I bet you want a simple answer. The way I see it, ( and I have never tried them ) drugs must have a effect on the brain. From what I hear, drugs could open up channels to consciousness. But being artificial or temporary one will have to rely on them. But then there may be a problem of fixating on them. Plus it could have long term damaging effect on the body. I'm sure drugs can give one a high.
Actually in meditation we are advised to break the meditation, when one experiences bliss, clarity and non thought, so one doesn't become attached, and it stays fresh. It is so easy for meditation to become conceptual or become a state, which pure consciousness is not. Pure consciousness is not a vacant state. However if you find a drug that make you totally enlightened forever....please let me know!! To try to answer "consciousness altering"....hmm, maybe that is to do with the perception of consciousness. In Tibetan buddhism there are 9 consciousness(es), five of the senses, 6th is mind, 7th feeling if I, 8th is called the alaya vidyana ( not quite pure), 9th is Rigpa. The 9th is where it's all at. But you can see that there are traps one can fall into.
Such a lovely question, such a bloody awful answer! Meditation is to free you, open you up....for nothing. IT"S FREE! I wish you well.

[Tony]

Dear Lord Sidious,

Go to the top of the class! My parents had a shop selling Pie and Mash....and jellied Eels. Plus I was never any good at spelling!!

[Odah]

i saw what sidious did before i even clicked on the thread. there is a lot that can effect how your consiousness interfaces in your body .. how your true self connects to the identity that is developed while you are alive on this earth . Recreational use of mind altering drugs is bad . The use of such drugs in trible shaministic cultures is surrounded by cerimony and purification rituals .

[Hervé]

I forgot to say, nothing can have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride cannot have an effect on consciousness. Fluoride or any chemical does have an effect on the body or brain. If ,WE identify with the body or brain then want happens to the brain or body does seem to have an effect on us. But it is not true.

We say we have a cold. NO, the body has the cold...you do not! Your brain can be addled by alcohol but the consciousness is still aware. You have been taught wrongly that your are your body and brain. People even think they are the accumulation of their thoughts this is totally wrong. This just builds up pride and conflict.....especially with men!!!

The danger is becoming what you believe or are taught.

This is why it is extremely important to see the body/brain is separate from consciousness.

True happiness means that inner state that no outside force can affect.
It does not rely on conditions.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Sorry, just spotted the spelling error. AFFECT not EFFECT....!

So true... on one hand.

On the other hand, sometimes it's the consciousness which has the cold and nothing that could usually relieve a cold seem to be able to do so. "It's all in your head!" comes as diagnostic. Past life therapies are then able to relieve that cold in most cases... and the body de/un-stresses with a great sigh of relief...

Then there's the matter of a body's wiring being shunted or short-circuited through the integration of toxic chemicals... one can be a great formula one pilot but when that machine has gone tree-hugging in a perfect embrace... you've got one great pilot hitch-hiking home.

Hence, IMO, the great value of grey scales in the evaluation of B&W.

Other than that, I am in agreement with your conclusion and the hitch-hiker is very happy to go home!

[Davidallany]

This is why it is extremely important to see the body/brain is separate from consciousness.
Consciousness existes without the body? which one of them the eye consciousness or the mind consciousness?


True happiness means that inner state that no outside force can affect.
It does not rely on conditions.

Can you explain this more. What's that inner state? What is the outside force? How can happiness exists by it's own right without causes and conditions? given that the phenomena of omniscience itself needs causes and conditions to exist ! Please explain.

[Tony]

Dear Davidallany,
We are going to have to take this slowly. Plus I don't know your experience, so forgive me if I state the obvious. Also what is meaningful for me, may not satisfy you. That which looks out of your eyes at this moment, and say when you four years old (you may even remember further back..?) has never changed. That pure consciousness. It is constant. Thoughts change, the body changes, but awareness does not. It's natural state is happy....for no reason. It is awareness just being aware. It is happy but not excited, just at rest. Unconditional happiness, as opposed to conditional happiness which relies on a condition. If that condition is taken away..we may become unhappy. If our happiness relies on a condition this in itself create hope and fear. Hope the it will last, fear that it might be taken away. Outside forces are all phenomena, which we get attracted to or repulsed by. They become distractions. In non-meditation there is just letting be in empty essence and cognisant nature. Meditation is maintain something, it's not quite it. But it's near enough. I seem to be running out of space. I will write more.............keep asking questions!! Be pushy!!!! pie'n'eal

[Tony]

Dear Davidallany,


Viewing consciousness may depend on which tradition you follow.
So it is easy to talk at cross purposes.

Dzogchen teachings are secret, mainly because if not understood properly it may lead to confusion.
One needs to practise the first steps, experience, then move on. This is a stable, sane way of working.
I do not want to confuse anyone. The terminology maybe unfamiliar. The experience is recognisable.

You would be better going to proper teachings.

Let's try a little.
The body has five consciousnesses, each relates to the five senses.
Eyes just see, tough just feels, nose just smells,
tongue just tastes and the ears just hear.

The sixth consciousness is the mind, it does all the thinking.

The seventh consciousness is the “I” identity.

The eighth consciousness is the awareness.

The ninth consciousness is empty awareness.
( but this is a baby conscious awareness ) one has to practise.

Then there are three finer stages after that, get to pure consciousness.

But at nine you are quite stable.

The eighth and ninth are very close and can be confused.
The eighth can turn into a vacant state.

This probably will create more questions...this is a wonderful part of the journey!

pie'n'eal

[Davidallany]

tough just feels

Sorry, what just feels?

[Tony]

The body feels. The brain lights up. That is experienced in the mind. That is experienced by consciousness.
This one way of understanding , there are other ways. You may see it differently.

[Lettherebelight]

In total concordance with Pie'n'eal...

Pure consciousness, which is 'who we really are' cannot be, and indeed is not, affected by anything material.

[Davidallany]

Be pushy!!!!
I do not like to force things. It's not my nature.


The eighth consciousness is the awareness.

The ninth consciousness is empty awareness.
( but this is a baby conscious awareness )
Are these the consciousnesses that we need to separate from body/brain?

Dzogchen teachings are secret I understand, there are many secret teachings of course.

Then there are three finer stages after that, get to pure consciousness.
So, there are 10 consciousnesses?

[Davidallany]

The body feels. The brain lights up. That is experienced in the mind. That is experienced by consciousness.
I do realize that:) but what is this
tough just feels?

[Tony]

Dear oh dear, it's my bad typing....touch not tough...sorry!
When I say pushy I meant...be diligent....sorry!

I wish I had a proper education..........?

[ThePythonicCow]

tough just feels

Sorry, what just feels?

I'm guessing that pie'n'eal meant to say "touch just feels" ... but that's just a guess.

[manny]

hey pie man
have you actually acheived all of these consciousness states.
what are your experiences.
these states remind me of the teachings of dr david hawkins.
and if so how would you advice a person to acheive them.
thanks

[Davidallany]

Hi Paul, nice to see on this thread "not referring to your avatar"
Yes, thank you indeed. It's delicate subject and I didn't want to guess, that's why I asked :)
PieandI belong to different schools of thought and are showing subjects to each other.

[Davidallany]

The phrase:

"There is no Royal Road to geometry".
Suddenly came to mind. Experienced by mind consciousness.

[SKAWF]

the mind is like an adaptable key that will unlock deeper energies.
there are rhythms and patterns that that people find inspiring.
the mind is the thing interprets, and creates those patterns.
which we then feel the energetic significance of.

poetry for example, inspiring to read,
but if you had to create it,
could you do so with an impaired mind?

[leavesoftrees]

Dear oh dear, it's my bad typing....touch not tough...sorry!
When I say pushy I meant...be diligent....sorry!

I wish I had a proper education..........?


Don't be too hard on yourself. You picked up the difference between affect and effect in your first post on this thread ... that's no small thing !

[DeDukshyn]

Dear oh dear, it's my bad typing....touch not tough...sorry!
When I say pushy I meant...be diligent....sorry!

I wish I had a proper education..........?

Damn semantics! No worries!

[dddanieljjjamesss]

I just want to say, in relation to psychedelics, that DMT had a profound effect of opening doors to consciousness.
That being said, it was a couple times, and time has passed, it turned me on but I would never use it as a 'source' and haven't since.
That would be the worst offense and lack of understanding about what I had experienced.

[Tony]

Dear Manny,
These are just words on a page: it is up to you
to decide if there is any meaning in them.

Everyone is conscious, but maybe not always aware of it.
I could ask you, “Are you conscious?”

In that moment, you are. ! As it is an unfamiliar phrase,
it produces a gap in your thinking.
However, in the next moment, thoughts come flooding in -
or we are left in a vacant state.

Throughout our lives, we oscillate in and out of consciousness.
In and out of a dream. Unconscious means unaware of pure awareness
in this context. We all take it for granted that we are aware,
which we are, but it's being aware with no habitual preconceptions.
Like getting into a new car which has left hand drive
(if you are used to a right hand drive). It is totally unfamiliar,
so one's awareness is very high, until you get used to it.

Most of our life we are busy or oblivious. The world has become very 'interesting' so there is always something to do! There is always something to occupy us. So we do not waste time – but this is in fact exactly what we are doing. Acquiring.

It's in meditation (a non state), that one sees this going on. The trick is being aware of the awareness. This pure awareness is you. But we identify with the thoughts and think the thoughts are us, which 'they' are not.

How do I know this? In forty years I have been to a lot of teachings
and done a bit of practice.

Am I any good at it? ....no! But what I know satisfies me, after years of frustration.

Being conscious is a piece of cake! Being conscious all the time that takes
a lot of effortless work. The main problem is the luggage we carry around.

That which is aware learns not to take 'ones-self ' too seriously. There is pure perception, and there is the chattering.

Does that help?

Understanding the levels of consciousness comes from being taught, and one's observation: taking this observation apart, and checking for self deception.

I'm only writing this material because I believe that consciousness is the answer to the threat around us.
And some people may never have time to have access to this information.

I am not saying it's the only view.

[manny]

in my recent early understanding of consciousness .i tend to believe at this moment that consciousness awareness is available to every soul.
but only when they are ready,for all the answers are within ourselfs.we may ask for guidence and advice off others to help us on our journey.
but in the end we all will reach the same goal.

now the questions that i am struggling with are:consciousness is the higher self, the soul and the physical body is the ego.
we are searching to reach higher self affirmination,so does this not mean that the higher self is a seperate entity to our physical.
if we are guided sometimes by thought,ideas that does not seem our own,but is our consciousness.
then is this body,the physical not just a puppet,a vessel.
so we have body,mind,consciousness
are we one or seperate.
to what ends?
why have we forgot .
what have we forgot.
to be one.
or maybe we are not suppose to remember.
just to live this life and experience it.in the phsyical.

hope this makes sense.

can,t believe it .just posted the above,then visited Ilenia,s blog and read the the first page lol.

[gardunk]

I think that it is crazy to break up our reality into these kind of parts and partitions/ we are one/ just as there are layers to many realities as well as your own skin, none is disconnected from the rest. Creating hierarchies forces folks to swallow theories and create subjective priorities which is well and fine for the individual that is at that point in their development but we must find a way to get beyond the specifics of any line of thought out of religious allegiance and realize that we are all connected and the secrets are not what is important anymore...just my opinion of course and no harm meant to anyone...

[Tony]

Dear Manny,
Have left a message on your private board'

[manny]

not received it
:mmph: