Integrity

[jjl]

breath in............................................... breath out

[jjl]

I will speak up as one person who was harassed by one of the banished members. This happened when I first came on and lasted for six hours. I imagine that mine was not the only case. I am relieved. I got to be AFRAID of posting. It feels better knowing at least one "Basher" got consequenced. I do realize it could happen to me too, but facts are facts. The mods are privy to things the rest of us are not. That's all I will say from personal experience on this subject.

[jorr lundstrom]

@ Flash:
glad to be a member of a club that has no name!!!!

Wot about ordinary humans?:thumb:
i am an ordinary human! don't know if i have an ordinary way of thinking though... :(

Im convinced that everybody who has the ability to think, is thinking in their own unique way.

But most humans cant think. They just register thoughts and thats not thinking. :tea:

[Janos]

I would encourage other Avalon members to act in the original spirit of Project Camelot and look into all sides of this issue, not just Bill’s side. The integrity of Avalon is at stake. As Flash points out, if we can’t solve this problem here, what chance does humanity have?

I think that you have hit the nail on the head and gotten to the crux of the matter here.

How does Avalon solve the problems of the world, if we can't even solve them here in our own house?

[jjl]

it's seems to be the "our house" that is a sticking point. Bill does not "own ' nexus, nor do I consider this "my house" I am an invited guest here. (meaning that if Bill visits Nexus, he doesnt leave flaming bags everywhere for people to step on)

[Janos]

I would say Avalon is a great forum, with much credit due to Bill Ryan, but those that might offer a dissenting opinion to mine no longer have a voice here. It would be useful if all members that were dismissed had the opportunity to leave a final post. I bet that would be quite an interesting thread as well as a valuable learning tool for everyone.

I concur wholeheartedly with this suggestion. And while I intuit a collective "sigh" from the Mods, perhaps the most constructive aspect of this suggestion is that it would allow for an exploration of the phenomenon of dissonance Bill describes, and which he also admits he does not fully understand. If there is something happening here, and others seem to concur there is, it would be helpful to examine it. What's going on inside Avalon may represent a microcosm of some universal phenomenon taking place that is very much worthy of our reflection.

I would also submit, and echo other's notes, that yes, this is indeed a microcosm of the problems in the world.

If we can't solve them here without resorting to banning everyone, how the heck are we going to fix the problems in the world. How are we 'being the change we want to see' in the world?

What happens when you are faced with real world problems, and just can't 'ban' your way out of a problem.

A ban, is almost always, a failure of communication... on the part of the banning party, to communicate or understand the point of view of the one being banned.

To use an example, Modwiz had... what... 4500 'thanks' for his posts, where fellow Avalonians took the time to thank him for his efforts.

If that is an example of a troll that needs banned, I think I'm on the wrong planet.

But I digress. This thread is about integrity.

'Integrity' is achieved by right and righteous action. Not by declaring that you have it and everyone else you disagree with does not.

Look after people like Chicodoodoo. He's one of that 10% where the growth of Avalon will come from. Someone who questions and truly seeks an answer, in order to answer to his OWN integrity.

These people are worth their weight in gold for the value they bring to this forum. Without them... stagnation and slow demise into mediocrity.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Often it's not what we say, but how we say it. Learning to talk softer and more respectfully is an art worth pursuing. Also, be aware of your real intention behind your words.

That being said, in these days when most of us are feeling the deprivation of time, we tend to type faster than we think. Add to that the terseness of internet and email conversation which tends to come across as abrupt, and the fact that for many English is not their first language can lead to miscommunication. So it's important that we all give each other some leeway.

We must also recognize that Bill and the moderators can see a much bigger picture as to what's happening. I believe their intent is to be fair. If I thought otherwise, I would go elsewhere.

[ROMANWKT]

Hi all I have been away for a week working and bang here we go again.
Those that feel that Bill is laying down the law, are missing the point.
Those that know, do not need to have the point mentioned.
The points are being mentioned because people are not getting the point , and that no point ever has been placed on people who understand that there are no rules and no rules were ever placed by Bill Ryan ever, I have never had any rules placed on me by bill, He never had to because I am not missing the point, if i have seen rules and regulations here, is because you am missing the point.
This is a self regulating forum, once you understand the point.
When people have to have thing pointed out to them, then they need to see what is pointed at them and for what reason. One either is or is isn't. you all have an opportunity to be here.

I have been following Bill and Kerry for many years now, and I still follow them both daily, I have never had bill or kerry lay the law down, or any such thing ever, it is an unnecessary and unmentionable effort by them, when people get the point.

We all class ourselves as being awake here, so why are there so many that have missed the point. check exactly what we feel we are awake about yet, miss the point of Integrity.

as penance I will ask you all who are missing the point, or believe that are missing the point to read my humble offering to you the bright brains out of control. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

As always my regards to all
roman

[jorr lundstrom]

Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper:wave:

[jjl]

Jorr-wish I could answer you. I only know about my own experience with someone else. Why don't you corner a mod and ask? Wish I could help. All I can say is from my perspective, they must have had their reasons. Again sorry your friend isnt here. But at least you can find him on Nexus. When Lee B was kicked off, I never saw him again.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Some of those whom I’ve just learned today that were banned, have contributed MUCH to Avalon.

So, I am asking you publicly, here and now, to reverse these bans and put an end to this foolishness.

We need to present a united front, not fractured ‘cliques’. If someone wants to leave voluntarily, that is one thing, but forcing someone out is another thing entirely.



Janos,

many people spend so much time posting they never take time to look at Avalon and get to know the members or what is going on here.

They were so full of their truths that no one else's mattered...

yes I miss everyone that leaves Avalon, but I also know it is a force moving forward that can't be stopped and many groups have sent attackers into the forum to try and stop the progression. The only way to prevent them from succeeding is to toss out all fighters...

all forums are created for differences of opinions to be discussed, but members should be above discussion...

if I was at Bill's house and a group walked in and started attacking the host and other whistle blowers present, not because of info they presented, but because they didn't comb their hair the right direction.

at first I would step forward and ask what does their hair style have to do with what they presented?

then the group would say ok it isn't the hair it's the shoes...

again I would ask why...

after all their attacks have been answered and I see what they are upset about is they want to learn more...

I ask them to sit down relax more will be coming...

They start jumping up and down about the hair, and the shoes... the whole group jumps in so nothing is discussed...

Then they turn on Bill mad that they aren't learning anything demanding more answers to why the hair is parted wrong...

everyone would leave not knowing anything more, not because of the whistle blower or host of the party, but because of the group of attackers...

for the next gathering do you want them there, or do you want to learn?

[jorr lundstrom]

Jorr-wish I could answer you. I only know about my own experience with someone else. Why don't you corner a mod and ask? Wish I could help. All I can say is from my perspective, they must have had their reasons. Again sorry your friend isnt here. But at least you can find him on Nexus. When Lee B was kicked off, I never saw him again.

Im not a member on Nexus, have never been. Im sure they have their reason.

102 000 years ago we entered the fifth underworld( the Cultural) in which we learned

reason, so of course. I dont want to corner a mod. We dont have to do that here. We

discuss those things in the open here on Avalon. You are nice jjl, thank you.:kiss:

[Jendayi]

Hi all I have been away for a week working and bang here we go again.
Those that feel that Bill is laying down the law, are missing the point.
Those that know, do not need to have the point mentioned.
The points are being mentioned because people are not getting the point , and that no point ever has been placed on people who understand that there are no rules and no rules were ever placed by Bill Ryan ever, I have never had any rules placed on me by bill, He never had to because I am not missing the point, if i have seen rules and regulations here, is because you am missing the point.
This is a self regulating forum, once you understand the point.
When people have to have thing pointed out to them, then they need to see what is pointed at them and for what reason. One either is or is isn't. you all have an opportunity to be here.

I have been following Bill and Kerry for many years now, and I still follow them both daily, I have never had bill or kerry lay the law down, or any such thing ever, it is an unnecessary and unmentionable effort by them, when people get the point.

We all class ourselves as being awake here, so why are there so many that have missed the point. check exactly what we feel we are awake about yet, miss the point of Integrity.

as penance I will ask you all who are missing the point, or believe that are missing the point to read my humble offering to you the bright brains out of control. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15834-Its-all-nonsense-part-1

As always my regards to all
roman
thank you roman... and to all.. roman's and sierra's words are what helped me regain my composure and remain on avalon.. be it in lesser degree.. back to observing for now (if i can, haha)
thank you both!

[skippy]

Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper:wave:

Jorr, everybody knows what happened to Modwiz. Just check out his personal explanation on Nexus. The point is that we would like to hear the story from Bill and/or the mods. I agree with Chico, that the integrity of PA is here at stake. But, at the same time, I trust Bill and his team to step forward, to clarify things and to take some appropriate actions. Transparancy is needed to restore the balance and integrity of this endeavour. We need to learn from this experience, take the appropriate actions and move forward hand in hand with our friends at Nexus.

Respectfully yours,

Skip.

[Rocky_Shorz]

transparency on a conspiracy site?

why do I hear the song Dreaming...

Modwiz will always be one of us, and he wasn't kicked out, he just joined his friends...


They are working on a healing project, speaking of which, how is Josephine?

[ROMANWKT]

Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper:wave:

Jorr, everybody knows what happened to Modwiz. Just check out his personal explanation on Nexus. The point is that we would like to hear the story from Bill and/or the mods. I agree with Chico, that the integrity of PA is here at stake. But, at the same time, I trust Bill and his team to step forward, to clarify things and to take some appropriate actions. Transparancy is needed to restore the balance and integrity of this endeavour. We need to learn from this experience, take the appropriate actions and move forward hand in hand with our friends at Nexus.

Respectfully yours,

Skip.

I'm sorry to differ with you here Skippy, but I don't thing projects Avalons integrity is in question here???????????????? as has been stated by Bill and others, its is our integrity being questioned here, and for that reason a clean up.
regards
roman

[Rocky_Shorz]

Iran's Ayatolla in my left hand, children of the world in the other...

4.0 Earthquake location 33:33:000 just a few hundred miles from Tehran... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10845-Avalon-The-gathering-of-33-Bloodlines...&p=202264&viewfull=1#post202264)

who says we haven't learned anything this year... ;)


>>>>FOCUSED INTENT<<<<

[ROMANWKT]

We should all remember what reason Bill and Kerry started this quest of seeking the truth, and what this site is all about. We have some amazing minds and contributors here that you will never find any where else, I can tell you that after 32 years of seeking, this is the only place for like minded people that are seriously looking for answers to life and view the results of others on their spiritual paths. This is the place that you get up to the minute news, the real news. The whole world and a whole world of views are here for you to digest and ponder or take on and proceed with if you vibrate with it, and there are many people here to guide the beginner in their knowledge for truth as we know it up to the minute. I could go on and on about this, so what is this thread here about, just possibly,people who have lost their way as to what this site is all about, ITS ABOUT EVERYBODY, not just some, all contribute, and all are heard.
My regards to all
roman

[Chicodoodoo]

well said brother! (may i call you brother?)

You need not ask, Jendayi. We are brothers, and we always have been. Everyone here is family. That's why it pains me to see family members treated unfairly by other family members. This is a critical problem, and it's precisely why the integrity of Avalon is at stake. Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.

[norman]

Buffski posted a vid earlier that made me blub.

Here's a vid I hope will do something for a few tracking this thread now and especially in the future as lurkers.

Integrity is a sense, a conciousness, not a role.

enjoy. ( as well as care ) { and the last little 'judas' bit is just for Bill }


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_qxlL9Y5iM&feature=fvwrel

edit: it's been a busy evening and now I'm off to bed, good night.

[ROMANWKT]

well said brother! (may i call you brother?)

You need not ask, Jendayi. We are brothers, and we always have been. Everyone here is family. That's why it pains me to see family members treated unfairly by other family members. This is a critical problem, and it's precisely why the integrity of Avalon is at stake. Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.

Again I beg to differ with you Chicodoodoo, I still don't see where Avalon integrity is at stake here , when we the contributors of this site are the sole integrity keepers??????????????
regards to you
roman

[Sierra]

hi guys 'n gals..
i guess i reacted a bit emotional to the whole thing... i have adjusted my signature accordingly.. i will stay on avalon but will reduce my presence again, like i did before and try to only share thoughts from my own personal experience and no longer get caught up in discussions like these.. i have way more valuable information to share on a more personal level, touching upon the core of our being, especially regarding the healing of emotional and sexual imbalances.. i can help people to let go... now i just need to find a way to express it without needing others to get me going... and without offending anyone I guess.. (please read that i say "Try" for a reason, i am still human.. ;)


i just really love modwiz's being.. he is a gentle soul who, i believe, deserves better...
I still don't understand fully what is going on here... and i don't care anymore.. i have not lost a friend, just one way of communicating with him.. i realize that now..
namaste!

p.s.
just saw that this post generated my 777th "Thanks" so that is definitely a sign! Thanks Norman or JJl (did not see who was first ;) )
p.p.s. Just saw modwiz on the other forum where he received 777 thanks so far... ( I Kid you not!!! just doesn't feel right to make a screenshot)
now that's what i call syncronicity!!!! this IS freaking me out a bit but i am enjoying the ride...
let's see where it will all lead, shall we?

YIPPEE!!!! er... I'm so glad you are staying and it is SO TOTALLY AWESOMELY AMAZING that there is such a connection between you and ModWiz and that number is really powerful, a triple number, a triple seven number and it resolves to three CATALYST.

May these numbers bless the connection catalyst :)

I never got to tell ModWiz how HANDSOME he is in the photograph, he was so handsome he made me shy rats. Please give my apologies and regards to ModWiz.

Sierra your fondest Grandmother on this site :hippie:

[Sierra]

breath in............................................... breath out

Whew ... Heaving a big sigh thank you :)

[ROMANWKT]

Buffski posted a vid earlier that made me blub.

Here's a vid I hope will do something for a few tracking this thread now and especially in the future as lurkers.

Integrity is a sense, a conciousness, not a role.

enjoy. ( as well as care ) { and the last little 'judas' bit is just for Bill }


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_qxlL9Y5iM&feature=fvwrel

edit: it's been a busy evening and now I'm off to bed, good night.

Well that's an insult Norman calling Bill a Judas, whats that all about, where will that get you??????????????????????????
Think again,regards
roman

[Icecold]

ROMANWKT:

Well that's an insult Norman calling Bill a Judas, whats that all about, where will that get you??????????????????????????


.....possibly banned, but his personal integrity will be intact.

[Rocky_Shorz]

well Judas wasn't as bad as the good book says...


now we find out he was the one Jesus trusted the most... ;)


so maybe it was a compliment...


Happy Easter everyone!!!

[ulli]

well said brother! (may i call you brother?)

You need not ask, Jendayi. We are brothers, and we always have been. Everyone here is family. That's why it pains me to see family members treated unfairly by other family members. This is a critical problem, and it's precisely why the integrity of Avalon is at stake. Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.

Chicodoodoo, when the winds of change blow there comes a time when old ideas have to be shelved for a while as one contemplates everything in a fresh light...
What you say here tells me something about where you are at in your life's development- I honestly believe that you are showing signs of being a leader yourself. Perhaps you ought to try your hand at forming a small forum of your own where you could offer open and frank discussion for alternative community building. One where you get to show your strength as a protector...
It doesn't have to be a forum as complex as Avalon, maybe start small, with a Yahoo group...I'm sure you'll get quite a few to join and then invite their friends, and see how it grows...alongside being a member of the Avalon forum

[Sierra]

Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.

Chico ... I know we're supposed to turn the other cheek but did you hear jjl? She was hounded for six hours and became afraid to post. I felt pretty intimidated myself and was expressing it rather sideways over in the patriarchy thread until I figured out at the end of three I am embarrassed to say longwinded postings the excessive aggressive streak at Avalon really stressed me out. Really stressed me out. Really stressed me out. If I don't speak out for me and others would that be integrity? Should I hide and cower? I don't want to.

What do you do when two family members cannot even agree on what is reality? The incongruence is unbelievable. Reunion without the return of dissension and bullying is a difficult reality to manifest at this point and I do not see united intent to manifest this reality at this point in time.

Both parties have to bring integrity to the table and I don't see this over at Nexus. They seem to be riling each other up as hard as they can. This does not allow time to give healing nor the emotional body to calm down. This is insincere behavior. Sit down and breathe dammit.

Ahem snort. This blowup was HUGE, absolutely HUGE. That is what I see still manifesting on Nexus. The emotional reaction to the blowup. Richard I believe did more for Avalon than anyone up to that point in time. That packs a powerful punch to the light or the dark. It was so painful to watch. It is painful to see ModWiz and GoldenYears be gone too. But sitting over on Nexus and being snarky as hell does not contribute to an attitude or ambiance of respect and compassion does it? Same for the Bill bashers on this site ... lets start being responsible with what we do with our emotions and our words and our energy and our manifestations. Have you noticed the iteration is happening so FAST? Its making people dizzy.

So go away focus
Go away red tunnel vision
Go away claws
Go away predator
Return light
Return air
Turn your head away
Sit down
Breathe
Breathe
Return human
Breathe
Breathe
Calm is here
Peace is here
You are here
I am here
This is biggest gift
You are here
I am here
It is my prayer
It is my prayer
If I must die today
Let me know
Let me see
Let me greet you
with eyes wide open
at the dawn
joy in the morning
Great Joy

This is where someone from the peanut gallery should yell, "A pox on both your houses!" lol snicker ...

So hows about back to spiritual development and conspiracy theories youse guys? And I'll take out the garbage, mop the floor and do we need to do a beer run ...

Chic, it is the time of choice. Be a kind respectful compassionate bridge Chic, please. I just can't do it, the heaving bosoms you know ...

Man my moods are flipping second by second this site is red hot.

Sierra heaving a deep breath :hippie:

[Chicodoodoo]

I still don't see where Avalon integrity is at stake here , when we the contributors of this site are the sole integrity keepers??

I would gladly agree with you if we, the contributors of this site, were the sole integrity keepers. Unfortunately, that's not the case. When push comes to shove, we have seen Bill overrule entire moderation teams (and there's no telling how many times we didn't see it -- those that know have all been banned).

I know the argument is that this is Bill's house, and he can do whatever he pleases, but that ignores the fact that this house could never have been built without the contributions of so many Avalon members. Imagine you are invited to help build a house where all contributors can enjoy shelter and camaraderie. You work hard and help build a magnificent structure. You enjoy almost every minute of the time spent creating this beautiful shelter. Out of the blue, the foreman comes up to you and says, "This is my house, and it's no longer the place for you. Pack up your tools and leave immediately."

How do you feel about the project's integrity then?

[jjl]

Sit down and breathe dammit.

that gave me a big gulp of fresh air and a healthy guffaw!

[Flash]

breath in............................................... breath out

Whew ... Heaving a big sigh thank you :)

just for a break while breathing: Sierra, I don't know if your avatar is your cat or not, but if it is we are twins through our cats. Mine is identical. Yes, I am off topic, oups!

[Rocky_Shorz]

I still don't see where Avalon integrity is at stake here , when we the contributors of this site are the sole integrity keepers??

I would gladly agree with you if we, the contributors of this site, were the sole integrity keepers. Unfortunately, that's not the case. When push comes to shove, we have seen Bill overrule entire moderation teams (and there's no telling how many times we didn't see it -- those that know have all been banned).

I know the argument is that this is Bill's house, and he can do whatever he pleases, but that ignores the fact that this house could never have been built without the contributions of so many Avalon members. Imagine you are invited to help build a house where all contributors can enjoy shelter and camaraderie. You work hard and help build a magnificent structure. You enjoy almost every minute of the time spent creating this beautiful shelter. Out of the blue, the foreman comes up to you and says, "This is my house, and it's no longer the place for you. Pack up your tools and leave immediately."

How do you feel about the project's integrity then?

well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

Richard is a great guy, but at that moment when he cooled he realized it was time to step back to figure out what happened...

It was mutual on both sides and those that stood with Richard as friends will always be there for him when he needs it... like Bill...

[Ross]

Both parties have to bring integrity to the table and I don't see this over at Nexus. They seem to be riling each other up as hard as they can. This does not allow time to give healing nor the emotional body to calm down. This is insincere behavior. Sit down and breathe dammit.


Hello all,

Some Members are upset at Nexus, but not all, some Members are rilled up, but not all. 445 members are there and only some are in the catergory you state. You say you dont see integrity at Nexus, I'm guessing you have only focused on certain threads and posters, to come to this conclusion? There are infact several posters on the threads you have read, that are infact trying very hard to "bring integrity to the table"... to both forums.

Please, it helps the over-all community to be as accurate as possible when posting statements.
Judging an entire community (Nexus and Avalon) based on a few threads is not an accurate account for what they (the Membership) stand for.

Regards,

Ross

[jjl]

:pop2:
I thank everyone. this thread is riviting

[Sierra]

breath in............................................... breath out

Whew ... Heaving a big sigh thank you :)

just for a break while breathing: Sierra, I don't know if your avatar is your cat or not, but if it is we are twins through our cats. Mine is identical. Yes, I am off topic, oups!

That is McKnao. I'll PM you later with a story about how I met McKnao :)

[Sierra]

Both parties have to bring integrity to the table and I don't see this over at Nexus. They seem to be riling each other up as hard as they can. This does not allow time to give healing nor the emotional body to calm down. This is insincere behavior. Sit down and breathe dammit.


Hello all,

Some Members are upset at Nexus, but not all, some Members are rilled up, but not all. 445 members are there and only some are in the catergory you state. You say you dont see integrity at Nexus, I'm guessing you have only focused on certain threads and posters, to come to this conclusion? There are infact several posters on the threads you have read, that are infact trying very hard to "bring integrity to the table"... to both forums.

Please, it helps the over-all community to be as accurate as possible when posting statements.
Judging an entire community (Nexus and Avalon) based on a few threads is not an accurate account for what they (the Membership) stand for.

Regards,

Ross

Thank you for the correction Ross. Yes, I was on only one thread, "Banned Members?" it was called? I do remember you were polite and respectful. I scrolled back up to see who it was. I don't remember others but I do believe you. I apologize for slighting and not mentioning the good.

My point and I may have not mentioned this and I apologize is that the new thread "Banned Members" had the same tone and energy as the original thread at the time Richard and the mods left Avalon, which was months ago.

I have to hop off this thread, I'm moving too fast and hurting people. Again, I apologize Ross.

Off to breathe :)

[Lord Sidious]

I don't expect the mods or bill to be perfect any more than I think they expect me to be.
That being said, I would hope that they are striving to be that way.
The mods are doing a good job considering time constraints and their newfound roles into which they are trying to fit.
So screwups may happen and probably will. There aren't any mods on this forum that I don't appreciate and have fond thoughts of.
That being said, we are on a fine line right now.
If we ban, unsubscribe, or whatever term we use those that challenge us, who is left to make us stretch ourselves to the next level?
There is no wisdom in relaxing.
It is like bodybuilding, there is no gain without pain. Maybe bill doesn't appreciate some of us putting him on the spot and questioning him and/or pointing out his errors.
But that is too bad for bill, in the real world, that is how it works.
And, that is much to bills benefit, for if we were all sycophants, who would tell him that he is naked?
Modwiz is my brother. I love the guy and will miss him here, but I will be with him in real life and that is better.
There are others who have been ejected, zook for example, that I didn't like to see, some I know of some I don't, but it makes me sad to see users logged in with grey names when we have trolls who are still allowed to post here.
I have absolutely no problem with people coming to me and proving me wrong, in fact, I invite you to do so, you are doing me a favour if you do.
I don't know bill, I have never met him, but I think he needs our reality checks every so often, as we all do.
If he bans those who do it, then who is going to pull him up and ask him the hard questions?
On the same token, I still would like to thank bill for a)putting this forum up and b)accepting me as a member. I have met some damn fine people here who not only are welcome in my lounge, they can stay over as long as they want.
I have also learnt much whilst I have been here too, which is why I came here.
Let me finish by yet again posting this vid of Ofra Haza.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVX5Dz7NV1c

[jjl]

Please dont leave sierra, we are all grownups here and I value your posts

[sandy]

Maybye I can get an answer if I whisper:wave:

Jorr, everybody knows what happened to Modwiz. Just check out his personal explanation on Nexus. The point is that we would like to hear the story from Bill and/or the mods. I agree with Chico, that the integrity of PA is here at stake. But, at the same time, I trust Bill and his team to step forward, to clarify things and to take some appropriate actions. Transparancy is needed to restore the balance and integrity of this endeavour. We need to learn from this experience, take the appropriate actions and move forward hand in hand with our friends at Nexus.

Respectfully yours,

Skip.

I'm sorry to differ with you here Skippy, but I don't thing projects Avalons integrity is in question here???????????????? as has been stated by Bill and others, its is our integrity being questioned here, and for that reason a clean up.
regards
roman

Dear Romanwkt,

My question to you then is as a whole>>>> Are we not Avalon?>>> Your words were "check our integrity" or are you meaning every individual here at Avalon needs to their integrity?

[Flash]

well said brother! (may i call you brother?)

You need not ask, Jendayi. We are brothers, and we always have been. Everyone here is family. That's why it pains me to see family members treated unfairly by other family members. This is a critical problem, and it's precisely why the integrity of Avalon is at stake. Avalon is a microcosm of humanity, and humanity itself is still searching for ways to solve the exact same problem. The answer has been with us for millennia -- "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." We know the answer. Why can't we be the answer? If we want to know what integrity is, we need look no further than that.

chicodoodoo my dear friend, you expressed yourself loud and clear. I am sure you have been heard. Now it may be time to let go and rest. Let time do its work, because it has already. I see a lot of change in people all over lately, and this is good news, including change in me, in Bill from the ways he writes, and in some others in the forum itself. This is Easter, have fun with your nice family and your children, enjoy life. And happy Easter.

Everyday life mixing with Avalon: By the way, while I was answering you I burned the nice indian rice I was making for dinner - my teenager and her friend, both wearing rainbow colours eye shadow and big pinky earings, talking about boys, and texting at dinner table (I had to stop them), ate the rice and delicately, politely, pushed it aside asking for more salad (their faces were funny). You see, my daughter has rules in this house - no phone at the table and you eat what you are served - and her invitees have to respect them as well. Usually I say nothing until it goes a bit overboard, then I gently realign the situation with teenagers, or talk about it with adults. If it does not work, I become more imposing -I would have taken the phones away.

Everywhere basic respect rules are in place usually, throughout the world. This forum seems to have the same, even if unspoken sometimes. The only difference is that we have the world diaspora here and that basic rules may differ from place to place, making confusion sometimes greater, but nonetheless, respect rules are in place.

Have a great Easter Sunday Chicodoodoo and all of you Avalonians.

[thunder24]

I don't expect the mods or bill to be perfect any more than I think they expect me to be.
That being said, I would hope that they are striving to be that way.
The mods are doing a good job considering time constraints and their newfound roles into which they are trying to fit.
So screwups may happen and probably will. There aren't any mods on this forum that I don't appreciate and have fond thoughts of.
That being said, we are on a fine line right now.
If we ban, unsubscribe, or whatever term we use those that challenge us, who is left to make us stretch ourselves to the next level?
There is no wisdom in relaxing.
It is like bodybuilding, there is no gain without pain. Maybe bill doesn't appreciate some of us putting him on the spot and questioning him and/or pointing out his errors.
But that is too bad for bill, in the real world, that is how it works.
And, that is much to bills benefit, for if we were all sycophants, who would tell him that he is naked?
Modwiz is my brother. I love the guy and will miss him here, but I will be with him in real life and that is better.
There are others who have been ejected, zook for example, that I didn't like to see, some I know of some I don't, but it makes me sad to see users logged in with grey names when we have trolls who are still allowed to post here.
I have absolutely no problem with people coming to me and proving me wrong, in fact, I invite you to do so, you are doing me a favour if you do.
I don't know bill, I have never met him, but I think he needs our reality checks every so often, as we all do.
If he bans those who do it, then who is going to pull him up and ask him the hard questions?
On the same token, I still would like to thank bill for a)putting this forum up and b)accepting me as a member. I have met some damn fine people here who not only are welcome in my lounge, they can stay over as long as they want.
I have also learnt much whilst I have been here too, which is why I came here.
Let me finish by yet again posting this vid of Ofra Haza.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVX5Dz7NV1c

Lord Sidious couldn't have said it better. HERE HERE!
PEACE

[Isthatso]

I see us here and those at Nexus trying to operate with integrity as much as possible and for the most part doing a great job. I also truly hope those endeavouring to bring 'integrity to the table' at Nexus will succeed. I don't know all the in's and out's of exactly what happened but I can imagine that starting a new site after such a huge emotional discord was always going to make for a tricky start and the situation on 'some' of their threads is a reflection of that.... but I'm hopeful for the Nexus folk that this will pass.

I'm an Avolonian and to date happily so, but I do wish Nexus to be a place where people who resonate with the team there find comradeship, knowledge and peace.

As we trade blows are we not mere reflections of each other?

Peace and warm wishes to all....

[Lettherebelight]

I received some very good advice recently about being patient. An increasingly rare quality.

When tensions are high, and change is electric in the air, it's so easy to go for a knee-jerk reaction. Make big changes, sever ties, burn bridges... And that may not be a completely bad idea, often this acts as a catalyst for change...and over time, the action turns out to be for the best.

However...

I also thank Sierra, for setting the good example of taking a breathing break. A deep breath is sometimes all it takes to connect us with the calm within and feel the detachment necessary to act with patience.

[Dennis Leahy]

... When push comes to shove, we have seen Bill overrule entire moderation teams (and there's no telling how many times we didn't see it -- those that know have all been banned).

I know the argument is that this is Bill's house, and he can do whatever he pleases, but that ignores the fact that this house could never have been built without the contributions of so many Avalon members.

How do you feel about the project's integrity then?

There are different kinds of forum structure. So far, I have not been on one that is truly 'holographic'/headless structure (though I have seen that claim made.) It would literally mean that a consensus or majority vote of members could oust the founder(s.) It is true that a forum founder or owner is not the whole forum, but they most certainly have a distinction and certainly deserve respect.

Seems like there are forums for everything these days, and often if you want to get any kind of technical help, you are best served by joining a forum. So, you might find yourself on a vacuum cleaner forum one day, a photography forum the next, and tomorrow you might end up on one of the computer hardware or software forums...

I have been on many forums, and am an admin and/or founder of a couple of them. They are all different, but all of them have some set structure (rules) and some moderation (at least to remove Spam and porn and throw a bucket of water on a flame war.)

If a forum is specifically set up to attempt egalitarianism, then members have the right to expect something approaching pure democracy or pure communism or pure socialism (they all sort of blur as ideologies, at some point.) Most forums are not like that. Project Avalon was not like that when I visited before joining, or when I joined (with Richard, Ross, Beth, Luke, etc. as admins/mods.) The mods were actively moderating, there were members getting 'vacations', there were members that were getting 'decommissioned.' The mods did what they thought was fair, and what was best for Avalon - and it was under Bill's guidance.

Would you steal an apple from a fruit vendor that isn't watching? Would you cheat on your spouse if you knew you could get away with it? Would you openly mock one of your friends behind their back, attempting to damage their reputation, and then feign innocence or cry 'foul' when they find out about it - and would you really be surprised if they didn't want you for a friend any more?

Integrity is what you do when no one is looking.

Dennis

[Rocky_Shorz]

I've been on full moderation forums where 80% is bounced back from most posters...

I like this free environment, and think Avalon has finally found peace...

It is a quiet forum but now will have many knowledgeable posters that have always stayed away from zoos join us.


I want Bill and Kerry to continue their search for Rabbit holes, that is what Camelot/Avalon is about, they shouldn't have to babysit anyone...


I just want to see the incredible videos continue opening all of us up to unknown truths...


That's why I'm here...

[Chicodoodoo]

well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

http://i52.tinypic.com/2i9tg8j.jpg

[Amzer Zo]

Time for deep reflections...

This thread has become a hall of mirrors...


[...]

Many of you will know that I've recently got to know Inelia quite well. When I first met her, she explained to me that the way each person sees her is a mirror. They only see themselves.

It took a while for me to fully understand this. Initially, I thought that this was a kind of interesting poetic metaphor.

But I came to realize that what she was describing is a remarkable phenomenon that is literally true in her case: and that, at least partially (and maybe more than partially), this also applies to myself, and of course some other people, too. To consider this in all its aspects is more than fascinating.

[...]

To call it how I think it is: the regroupings, the new friendships and relationships, and the re-arranged alliances are manifestations and reflections of us as spiritual beings. Not of anything else.

If this is what I feel this is, this is an enormously important development. It's hard to talk about this in anything other than metaphor. Some of you will grasp what I'm saying - and I welcome your mirroring. :)

So... while keeping taking deep breaths, empty your pockets of their stones content and look at the reflections eye to eye.

Then reflect on it.:decision:

(keep breathing...):dance:

[mondaze]

thank you all for your contributions on this thread. I feel like i'm surrounded by sentinels of good sense. I try to always be open and honest in what i say and do, so my comments earlier were posted not in haste but with a real sense of doubt regarding the direction of the forum... However reading the ensuing comments as allayed my fears, there still remains the original community which i am happy to connect with. thank you all once again.

[Flash]

well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?

I see two things in your comments:
1. The aggravation based on not knowing that some of your friends are in trouble with the forum, the hows and whys of it. Followed by the unexpected mourning that has to be done.
2. The three strikes practices to make sure everything is fair.

I do understand how one feels when we lose a friend we like to communicate with. I wonder though if the friend would have wanted us to know they were swimming in troubled waters, or if they wanted to keep it for themselves. It does not stop the discomfort of lost though, and the potential mistrust on decisions we were not informed about as they went along.

For the three strikes, they may have had the 3 strikes opportunities. I am not sure about that either, but following Bill's responses, patience was given by the whole team of mods, therefore more than 3 strikes. Correct me if I am wrong.

Therefore, the whole things comes to transparency, isn't it? and communication may be.

I still burned my dinner for you Chicodoodoo!;)

ps: I am correcting my post. I did not want to reduce the whole discussion on integrity to transparency and communication only. I still maintain that integrity is to be coherent with oneself, that there should not be a clash between integrity and acceptance or tolerance of diversity and that forgiveness to oneself first is all part of it. I do maintain my previous posts. I just wanted to clarify Chicodoodoo discontent, to make it easier to find a solution satisfying everyone, for all circumstances.

[ViralSpiral]

There is no wisdom in relaxing.



this....


As I mentioned previously (some 6000 pages ago *wink*), and others also so succinctly put: adversaries should be allowed a voice, without "real bullets".


If we cannot stretch, we will wilt!




p.s. Ofra can still not sing in Germany due to not being available ... /booo big bother!

[Paul]

adversaries should be allowed a voice
... not absolutely, not without limits ...

Societies optimally allow for a diversity of organizations, and each organization optimally allows for a diversity of opinion.

But to insist that each organization should allow all voices would lead to each organization becoming a Tower of Babel, a discordant cacophony.

Rather each organization should constantly seek a balance between excessive discord and excessive uniformity.

The right to free speech needs to be balanced with the right of like minded people to freely associate.

[Isostool]

adversaries should be allowed a voice
... not absolutely, not without limits ...

Societies optimally allow for a diversity of organizations, and each organization optimally allows for a diversity of opinion.

But to insist that each organization should allow all voices would lead to each organization becoming a Tower of Babel, a discordant cacophony.

Rather each organization should constantly seek a balance between excessive discord and excessive uniformity.

The right to free speech needs to be balanced with the right of like minded people to freely associate.

And what of the rights of Goldenyears and Modwiz and Lightblue and aroundthetable and Nagual to freely associate with their like minded friends here on Avalon?

And what of the point that what these people have said elsewhere on the internet does not interfere with the rights or ability of people to freely associate here?

How has removing them made for balance at Avalon between free speech and free association? It has not.

I have been looking back through Goldenyears' posts at Nexus - and I cannot for the life of me find anything rude enough to warrant a cancellation of membership, even if it was admissible to count evidence from outside of this forum, which in my opinion, it is not anyway. Just as an example. Go and have a look for yourselves. She was with Bill from the very beginnings of Avalon - the reasonings for these cleansings here are not straightforward or even cleanly explainable as having to do with integrity. It just does NOT add up.

[Icecold]

"Survivor" Ethics: The Saga of Dreamz and Yau-Man

http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/list/survivor.html

It's the season of year when the flowers blooming and the reality shows are picking their winners. There is usually a good ethics controversy to be found among the ramped up drama, clever editing and unmistakable odor of cheese. As it has several times before, "Survivor," the granddaddy of all reality shows, came through with the best ethical puzzler.

"Survivor," for those of you smart enough to avoid it and do something better with your time, like, oh, watching the newly released DVDs of "McHale's Navy," is a game show in which a bunch of contestants play Robinson Crusoe on some remote and primitive locale, as film crews record them competing in teams and finally as individuals. Every episode ends with someone being "voted off the island" by the participants, a decision that can be based on dislike, revenge, or strategy. The last three contestants win cash, a million bucks going to the winner, and there are other substantial prizes to be won on the way to the finals.

As the 2007 edition of "Survivor" got down to the final four competitors, there was a so-called "rewards challenge" for which the prize was a new truck. The challenge, and the truck, was won by good-guy contestant Yau-Man, but he offered the truck to a fellow competitor, "Dreamz," if he would agree to give Yau-Man his immunity if Dreamz won the upcoming immunity challenge. The winner of these "challenges," a fancy name for the kind of games people are forced to play at corporate retreats, can't be voted off the island in that week. Though giving away his immunity would subject Dreamz to the risk of being voted off himself, he accepted the deal and the new truck, saying that he wanted to teach his young son the value of keeping one's word.

He taught his son something else. Dreamz won the challenge but kept the immunity and helped vote the now truck-less Yau-Man, perhaps the strongest competitor, out of the competition---a smart move for someone wanting to win the million dollar prize, and a classic betrayal. Dreamz didn't win, but he did finish third, earning a substantial cash prize in the process. He also established himself as the current #1 villain in the reality show blogosphere.

Did Dreamz do anything unethical? It seems like a silly question: he lied, he betrayed, he double-crossed---what else could you call such conduct? But he didn't cheat. In "Survivor" all of this is within the rules of the game, just as bluffing in poker is neither cheating or lying. The objective of "Survivor" is not, as the name suggests, to literally "survive" on an island. If the stay on Fiji was going to be indefinite, ethical conduct would gradually become essential for all: imagine if Yau-Man and Dreamz had to work and live together after the betrayal. But "Survivor" has a much less complicated pay-off: winning the top prize after a limited number of weeks. The contest's creators purposefully encourage alliances and betrayals, because they make the game entertaining; this is, after all, a TV show. Lies, within the parameters of "Survivor," are simply tactics. They may be ill-advised (make too many enemies early, and you're a cinch to be voted out early), but anyone who has followed the show through the years knows that trickery has been part of the successful game plan of most season winners, beginning with first season winner Richard Hatch, who made the mistake of carrying "Survivor" ethics into the real world and got himself sent to prison . The producers of "Survivor" could easily make rules that forbid the sort of double-cross that Dreamz pulled on Yau-Man. But what fun would that be?

Culture determines ethics, and in the culture of "Survivor," lying and betrayal are not unethical. Stealing, however, is. Dreamz cannot keep the truck. For him to do so would be straightforward theft, and grand theft at that. The deal for the vehicle was broken by his reneging on the promise that was the only payment given to obtain it; Dreamz has no right to the truck whatsoever. As for his comments about teaching his son integrity, well, Dreamz was either being needlessly disingenuous or he's an idiot. "Survivor" is no place to teach anyone about integrity, honesty, or ethics. On the island, unlike in real life, ethical principles are simply tools to be used or discarded for other conduct that will win the game. Discussion for another time: how does this differ from politics?

But you still can't steal a truck. :lol:

[Lord Sidious]

There is no wisdom in relaxing.



this....


As I mentioned previously (some 6000 pages ago *wink*), and others also so succinctly put: adversaries should be allowed a voice, without "real bullets".


If we cannot stretch, we will wilt!




p.s. Ofra can still not sing in Germany due to not being available ... /booo big bother!

Those dirtbags.
Ok, we will defeat them.
If you are using windows, go get yourself a program called free studio. Search my posts, I have posted a link for it.
Once you have it installed, you can download youtube vids.
Just go to the title line on the Ofra Haza vids, get the url and pump it into the free studio youtube download nugget and see what happens.
If that works, you can see what you like.

[Lily de Cuir]

Hello Everyone,

Forgive me if I am missing something, but I've spent a goodly time on here over Easter, trying to make sense of a lot of stuff on this forum.

Am I correct in surmising that Inelia and Bill are now a partnership and an 'item'? That would explain Kerry's 'dummy spit' in releasing the Charles documents on another thread, in order to maintain some control, as it seems to be her modus operandi. Before I get myself unsubscribed, I'm just making an observation...seems like everyone is walking on egg-shells here. Not a good look if you ask me. I am all for being respectful and mindful, but we have to have free speech don't we, surely?

Wow, all these people being unsubscribed! Bit of a shock if people are just speaking their minds...

Mmmmm...

Kind regards,
Lily de Cuir:confused:

[Peacelovinman]

adversaries should be allowed a voice
... not absolutely, not without limits ...

Societies optimally allow for a diversity of organizations, and each organization optimally allows for a diversity of opinion.

But to insist that each organization should allow all voices would lead to each organization becoming a Tower of Babel, a discordant cacophony.

Rather each organization should constantly seek a balance between excessive discord and excessive uniformity.

The right to free speech needs to be balanced with the right of like minded people to freely associate.

Then what you describe is not free speech. Surely, if a post is made, then all shades of opinion are welcome, as long as due respect is shown and the post is made within the guidelines of the expected courtesy from members?

When I see the word "balanced" next to "free speech" , I'm afraid it sets alarm bells ringing for me. That is the way communitarian philosophy and law seeks to erode basic rights within our society. I'm sure it was unintentional on your part, Paul.

Im my humble view, free speech cannot be balanced, it either exists or it doesn't.

[DoubleHelix]

I have been watching this unfold from day dot and from where I've been sitting it's come across crystal clear why the majority of these members have been removed / unsubscribed.
To grasp the whole story you will of had to of read a lot of posts and threads concerning the underlying issues. In regard to Modwiz I believe he was in the process of leaving avalon anyhow.. but besides that I think Chinaski summed it up pretty well


frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"? this issue of where an insult or attack on character occurs and it's resulting relevance is pointless. if i had a friend that i was hanging around with being two-faced or stabbing me in the back, i wouldn't give a sh#t if he was doing it in the cellar of his house or in Timbuktu. you can dress this up verbally any way you like, but back-stabbing is back-stabbing, regardless of where it occurs.

modwiz was a solid contributor, yes. but go read that thread. he continually accuses Inelia of being a phony but offers no explanation whatsoever. over here he says something to the effect of feeling a powerful presence from her photo. over there he's singing a different tune. over here he's referencing her posts and encouraging other members to read them. over there,again, he's singing a different tune. (now i notice-in an effort to cover his tracks- he has invented some cockamamie excuse as to why he encouraged members to read her posts).

not only that, he accused Bill of exploiting Inelia- the "flavor of the month"- calling it a phony "promotion", and "creepy", implying Bill is some sort of snake oil salesman. he even likened him to P.T. Barnum, the promoter of hoaxes. he thanked a Celine post referring to Bill as a "fraud" and accused him of "peddling snake oil".

if i didn't know any better, i would have thought he was trying to get booted.

I for one fully support Bill and the Mod team and believe there doing a stella job... keep it up guys !

[billyji]

Personally i think Bill's house is a very very fine house, you light the fire Bill and someone can put the flowers in the jar that they brought today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZtJWJe_K_w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZtJWJe_K_w


Come to me now
And rest your head for just five minutes
Everything is good
Such a cosy room
The windows are illuminated
By the sunshine through them
Fiery gems for you
Only for you

Blessings to all who are invited and Happy easter

[Isostool]

frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?




Um... so now members are being policed and scutinised and assumed to be understood as to their motives and intentions for who they choose to thank?! On another forum? So where is the line? Anywhere? What are you sanctioning here? Seriously!!! wtf [LOL...shakes head laughing with amazement]

[DoubleHelix]

Um... so now members are being policed and scutinised and assumed to be understood as to their motives and intentions for who they choose to thank?!

Yeah I'd have to agree.. That part seems a little far fetched

[greybeard]

I thought the thank you button just meant you found something helpful in the post not that you agreed totally completely and utterly with the whole content
I have thanked many who had opposing opinions to mine as they prompted me to examine my thoughts.
I thanked people for giving me the chance to hold and express a different view.

Chris

[Icecold]

Originally Posted by Chinaski
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?


Oh look the gestapo is on the job. lmao

This reminds me of 1984 and the 'thought police'. :spy: ROTFLMAO

{mod edit: removed ad hominem attack}

[Gone002]

I had no idea that those members had been removed, im kinda shocked that this has happened. It is strange that the majority of elders have gone/ been removed.

[Icecold]

I had no idea that those members had been removed, im kinda shocked that this has happened. It is strange that the majority of elders have gone/ been removed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPi8ePDmcg

[greybeard]

There is great value in positive feed back - that is integrity
The opinions I held over the years have been modified changed because I listened to constructive criticism. (there has been plenty--- laughing)
I know my opinions will change, mature over the coming days weeks years -- if I thought I was correct in my views -- set in concrete how could I grow?

A good example was the early guided missile --it would veer to the left after take off -- then the computor would direct it to the opposite direct ie right.
It would then veer right but not so far -- soon it would cease these fluctuations and be on target.
I would not claim to be on target yet far less right.
Part of integrity is being open minded.
Eventually you dont have a set opinion.
That might seem strange.

The Course in Miracles says, as far as I remember "The moment that you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion."
Eckhart Tolle says " I dont take my thoughts too seriously"

Paul Simon "One mans ceiling another mans floor"

We all have different points of view thats the way it is.

Happy Easter

Chris

[jjl]

sounds like we could all use a cleansing breath again.

[ulli]

Bill's quest for learning is what brought me to this forum.
So my personal quest led me to the greater highway of Bill Ryan's quest.
Am I now a cultist? I can leave when I want to, I doubt if anyone here will come after me or my money.

While Bill worked with Kerry on Camelot there were more regular interviews,
as there existed this rather different dynamic.
Now Bill is heading Avalon, on his own, which appeals to me more
(psychologically this can possibly be explained in that I was a daddy's girl)
and he is getting more deeply involved with the people he is interviewing than before.

That's his style. Fine by me.
Charles and Inelia must be pretty special people to grab Bill Ryan's attention,
and I wish that both will interact more with this forum once it is free from disruptive hecklers.
And perhaps that is the overall plan. People like that are very, very sensitive
and don't function too well with James Randi type hecklers screaming in their ears.

Ok, some who were unsubscribed weren't exactly hecklers, nor trollls. Yet in believing that Bill had become too gullible,
and making snide remarks about him I find not only inappropriate but also see it as a projection.

I first discovered the knowleldge of "projections" around 2003, and went a bit wild with that idea.
I now know that this knowledge can become a dangerous weapon if one applies it
more to others than to oneself, but in the case of some of the members behavior it is hard not to see them doing it.

But even if I were to project onto him that he is "too this", or "too that" I would keep it to myself,
as it would reveal something about myself I hadn't noticed before.
Private matter between me and my Maker.
Contemplating on it helps me to get to know my inner universe better.

[Isostool]

Um... so now members are being policed and scutinised and assumed to be understood as to their motives and intentions for who they choose to thank?!

Yeah I'd have to agree.. That part seems a little far fetched

Then take a look at this!: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079

[jjl]

Um... so now members are being policed and scutinised and assumed to be understood as to their motives and intentions for who they choose to thank?!

Yeah I'd have to agree.. That part seems a little far fetched

Then take a look at this!: http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1671-They-canceled-my-membership&p=12079&viewfull=1#post12079
This to me, would strengthen the argument that they were not happy here.

[Icecold]

Ulli, (psychologically this can possibly be explained in that I was a daddy's girl) :laugh:


BTW...that is James Randi :)

[Isostool]

This to me, would strengthen the argument that they were not happy here.

This point is not at question, for all you need to do to answer this is to ask Goldenyears: and she did not unsubscribe herself, she was forcibly removed.

The point it is making as evidence, among many, is about the nature of the evidence and justification in this case, how it is gathered and what is inferred from it. And if that process in all its implications and extensions is just.

[Icecold]

European Union Policy on Freedom of Speech (FWIW :()

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.


It seems that TPB have a more democratic idea of freedom of speech than some other parts of the planet.

Usually, the only reason freedom of speech is challenged is if it incites violence of revolution???

[Lily de Cuir]

Originally Posted by Chinaski
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?


Oh look the gestapo is on the job. lmao

This reminds me of 1984 and the 'thought police'. :spy: ROTFLMAO

{quoted ad hominem attack removed}.

Hello Everyone,

I know I shouldn't laugh at this, but thanks Icecold (always knew I liked you, lol...)

Gotta love the straight talking Ozzies and the humour.

Don't take offence anyone, we're just taking the mickey...

Jesus, Ice, we could be skating on thin ice here, no pun intended....

Love Lily:pray:

[Janos]

You are banning MORE good people? Do you not know when to say 'when'? Or are the people making these decisions just absolutely clueless to the fallout that it causes?

Is this what you truly want, Bill and new mods, a sanitised and 'safe' environment, where comments made on an entirely separate board, or a 'thanks' given to a post is judged as agreeing with it 100%, and judgement is passed that the person has no integrity?

For crap sake, you could search all most posts here over the last several months, and at Nexus, and you'd see that I FREQUENTLY 'thank' things that I don't even agree with. I thank them if they make me think, I thank them if I feel that is how the person truly feels, and they've taken the time and effort to type it down, and I thank things, sometimes, that I agree with as well.

But that's not YOUR judgment to make, and honestly, none of your goram business!!

What I thank or not thank, is none of your concern, and has nothing to say about MY integrity, considering you have no clue why I thanked it in the first place, and can only make biased frontloaded assumptions based upon what you want to be true.

However it DOES tell us a lot about YOUR integrity, doesn't it?

And to Limor, I read the message you sent to Goldenyears and instructed her to post on Nexus... you are way, way, beyond way, out of line.

{mod edit: removed ad hominem attack}

I guess Nagual was right when they said that to be a member here you have to be a follower. Considering... that they seem to have been banned for that comment.

You know what, I fully, 100% agree with that comment. It does appear now, unfortunately that you DO have to be a 'follower' here, lest you risk the almighty 'banhammer'.

Pull your heads out of your collective asses before you lose what interesting member base you have left, and are left only with the hordes that will 'thank' your next post refuting this one, en masse.


---------

Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

You can say that again. Holy cats.

All of my efforts here have proven utterly futile.

[GK76]

People lets stop sweeping this issue under the carpet and face it as a community (as it should be faced). Yes, forums need moderation, but in moderation... not with an iron fist. So many have left or been pushed due to over zealous rules and damage control, lets make peace, forgive and move on... but not forget or we'll be back here again in 3 months time.

This situation can be fixed, and for the good of the community it should be fixed. Honesty will be the key, open your hearts and stop reacting with negativity. Many things here have been kept from the community, we should all be calling for an end to this destructive force... we can do this with openness.

[Isostool]

Originally Posted by Chinaski
frankly i cannot understand the indignation here. have we all read the 'Bill Ryan as guru' post at Nexus? have we noticed the support in the form of "thank you's"?


Oh look the gestapo is on the job. lmao

This reminds me of 1984 and the 'thought police'. :spy: ROTFLMAO

{mod edit: removed ad hominem attack}

hahaha I knew you'd get done for that old chap!!!

Excellent use of the correct formal logical term for descriptive clarity, Dennis..... lol.

[Icecold]

People lets stop sweeping this issue under the carpet and face it as a community (as it should be faced). Yes, forums need moderation, but in moderation... not with an iron fist. So many have left or been pushed due to over zealous rules and damage control, lets make peace, forgive and move on... but not forget or we'll be back here again in 3 months time.

This situation can be fixed, and for the good of the community it should be fixed. Honesty will be the key, open your hearts and stop reacting with negativity. Many things here have been kept from the community, we should all be calling for an end to this destructive force... we can do this with openness.


You see the dilemma Paul?

No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.

This sets up an impasse.

[Paul]

This thread is temporarily closed for repairs.

[Ilie Pandia]

Hello all,

I am in a short vacation at the country side, but I just want to pop in and say a few things.

This forum was not and it is not about free speech. Free speech would have to include trolls, spam, pornographic material, and otherwise topics that are not in alignment with the mission of Project Avalon.

This is a private, moderated forum. It is not free a speech forum. Bill together with the moderation team is working to keep this a high quality forum (from his point of view, of course).

This forum does not limit people rights! So please, do not compare it with 1984 and “thought police”. You always are free to go, you are free to create and maintain your own forums, you are free to create your own projects and web pages and you are free to associate with whomever you like. Nobody at Avalon will kill you or torture you over that! This is not 1984 and nothing like the thought police! (I know, I have read the book).

There is no need to walk on egg-shells either. This is not what Bill was asking for in this thread. All you have to do is ask yourself if you are still resonating with this forum. And if not, you can easily and gracefully leave.

It is unrealistic to expect that this forum is a perfect fit for all, or to ask to have it your way. As I have already said: you can always create your own projects that can complete the work of Avalon (instead of compete with it). You can always try and materialize your own vision of what a forum should be, but you will have to do that at your own forum.

PS: And before bashing the mod team or Bill, please also try to consider the support we offer daily and quietly to the members of this forum. You know... the private messages, personal emails and answers to help requests... imagine asking that from the "thought police" in "1984".

[Paul]

Janos has asked that his account be retired. I have done so.

I am reopening this thread. Ilie spoke my thoughts better than I could have, in the post just above.

[Icecold]

Another extremely articulate, intelligent member gone.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x_QbVDlLbI

[Bill Ryan]

Am I correct in surmising that Inelia and Bill are now a partnership and an 'item'? That would explain Kerry's 'dummy spit' in releasing the Charles documents on another thread, in order to maintain some control, as it seems to be her modus operandi.

Hi, Liiy, All:

Kerry - like almost anyone else who has ever met her! - thinks the world of Inelia (quote: "She's a doll" :) ), and is delighted that we're working closely together.

[Rocky_Shorz]

well Chico, you need to remember the attack Richard was under, the broom was out and everything in Avalon was about to be wiped out in a fit of rage...

Agreed, there was a problem there, but in retrospect, it did not merit banishment. Removing Richard as a moderator, perhaps temporarily, would have been more than sufficient.

However, the problem we are seeing now is much more serious. Modwiz apparently was removed for expressing his honest opinion both here, in private messages, and on the 2012 Nexus forum. Goldenyears and Lightblue appear to have been blind-sided out of the blue. And what about Aroundthetable? How many more have disappeared today for little reason?

Would it not be more reasonable to have a "three strikes" policy before a member is permanently banned? Wouldn't a simple "cease and desist" as the first strike be sufficient in many cases? How about a one week cooling-off period for strike two?

are you sure they only had one strike?

I think once everyone has calmed down and Avalon starts moving forward in the direction it was created for, many names you mention along with many of those going back to the Mists will rejoin us...

Just relax for now and understand a child indigo has foreseen a disaster striking Japan in May...

we need to let our attention focus on changes to prevent it from happening...

I don't want any more friends to leave us...

[Bill Ryan]

No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.


Not so. :)

If I were to choose a team of Avalon members to while away the time on a desert island (or a spaceship on a long trip), Chicodoodoo would be right there on my list.

He's intelligent, respectful, analytical, questioning, open to learning, and never slips into covert hostility, sarcasm, or cheap backbiting - even when bothered by something. That has my respect.

One criterion for my respect is whether the member concerned would say whatever they are saying elsewhere on the internet to the face of the person being criticized or smeared. I know that Chicodoodoo and I would get along really well. I suspect that he'd agree.

Anyone can approach me in person at any event or conference and say anything they want to. Many here will testify. I value that, and will talk with anyone who wants to talk with me. But many do not have the courage to do that when all they want to do is denigrate.

It's interesting to me that negative comments are so often made by people hiding behind anonymity, and not taking any responsibility for their statements, the hurt they cause others who are trying to do what they can to help, or the negative influence they are spreading.

Words on the internet are cheap. The courage to communicate in person is not.

[DevilPigeon]

-----

If it's true that some members have been 'retired' based on them showing gratitude to posts on other forums, I'm deeply unhappy about that.

To continue the use of the 'guest in my house' metaphor, you should judge members solely on their interaction within the house. In real life, you wouldn't send your housekeeper out to do some 'private investigations' on your guest! That's just plain rude, and dare I say it, paranoid.

As has been mentioned before, no context can be derived by someone that has 'thanked' another post.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I thought the thank you button just meant you found something helpful in the post not that you agreed totally completely and utterly with the whole content
I have thanked many who had opposing opinions to mine as they prompted me to examine my thoughts.
I thanked people for giving me the chance to hold and express a different view.

Chris

come on lets all be honest...

how many of you have disagreed with almost everything someone wrote, and finally you find a post that makes you smile...

doesn't it feel good to finally thank that person... ;)

[Bill Ryan]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

[Lord Sidious]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

Bill, don't be disingenuous, you are quoting part of a post.
How do you know they agreed with the post in its entirety?
Or if in part? And if in part, which part?
Things are starting to get into the surreal now.
It is almost like the twilight zone.
I would have to think it is carrot time again, except I am not sure who to carrot first.

[Icecold]

No member can safely comment without getting outed, therefore the problem is likely to persist.


Not so. :)

If I were to choose a team of Avalon members to while away the time on a desert island (or a spaceship on a long trip), Chickodoodoo would be right there on my list.

He's intelligent, respectful, analytical, questioning, open to learning, and never slips into covert hostility, sarcasm, or cheap backbiting - even when bothered by something. That has my respect.

One criterion for my respect is whether the member concerned would say whatever they are saying elsewhere on the internet to the face of the person being criticized or smeared. I know that Chickodoodoo and I would get along really well. I suspect that he'd agree.

Anyone can approach me in person at any event or conference and say anything they want to. Many here will testify. I value that, and will talk with anyone who wants to talk with me. But many do not have the courage to do that when all they want to do is denigrate.

It's interesting to me that negative comments are so often made by people hiding behind anonymity, and not taking any responsibility for their statements, the hurt they cause others who are trying to do what they can to help, or the negative influence they are spreading.

Words on the internet are cheap. The courage to communicate in person is not.

I'll tell you what, I would say anything I say in a post to anyone's face. Believe it.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I'm sure out of the millions of forums they will find one to be happy in...

Right now, we have not only the attention of the 33, but those underneath them, illuminati etc...

I would like constructive discussions, I see them as being here for answers so they don't have to wipe out 6 billion people...

anyone ready to get down to business of fixing this rock we call home?

plenty of paint brushes available...

[Lord Sidious]

What do we want to get out of this thread?
More people get the boot?
We turn on each other?
We do the work that others would like and have the cohesian we are trying to build shot to ribbons?
I find this all disappointing.

[Gone002]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.


Very interesting the whole post seems to be somewhat poisonous, I’m shocked and somewhat saddened that these people would turn on the Avalon community. Attacking anyone in such away is wrong and destroys the ideal of unity and respect Avalon stands for, it seems i may have been fooled into calling them friends; acting in such a way helps no one and tarnishes all involved.

[Agape]

Dear Bill ..

with all the due respect to your work and noble efforts ..

I noticed there is some discomfort here , I'm not home even so no danger I'd indulge myself in many postings . Blessed Easter Holidays to all of you .

Listen , I would not tolerate some of the arrogant , hateful and otherwise negativistic comments at my home either . We are all sensitive beings .
People who know me closely they also know that if once they become rude or show certain level of hypocrisy I wont have anything to do with them and leave the town .

I understand this is not the way forwards . We are not here to spend hours on praising or criticising one another . This is not a fan club , I hope and I'm tired of these interpersonal issues flooding all these boards .
I feel ashamed for both parties involved and perhaps for myself too , say guilt by association .


But allow me to tell you that some and many of those countless reactions are caused by yourself alone and it's a simple psychological reflection that does the trick .

As in physics , every force produces antiforce .


If you praise someone openly it awakes feelings of insufficiency in many others . Good school teacher should know that , not to talk about higher education professionals .

If you pick up boy from London suburbs to speak on great truth of universe many understand it's done to heal him . On the other hand ,
the board with it's thousands members is full of gifted and beautiful individuals with unique abilities and how many of them have the chance to be picked up by you ( if that's you they believe and follow ) .

Introducing new talented faces is all fine but the emotional or even messianic context as it was in the case of Atticus is not alright .

It provokes reaction , naturally . These people are not small kids and even if they were .


If you feel your friend Inelia is special it is perfectly fine but I think that as a leader of this forum you could give things time .

I'm sure there is about hundred other dolls and charlies around here .


My apologies for stepping to this debate but I think that reflecting on ones own behaviour ( time ARE changing ) is the shortest way to salvation .


Thanks and best wishes to you both


:angel:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Can't correct typos sorry

[ace]

I have spent two day's reading this fascinating thread.

And the line that done it for me was.

Integrity is something you use While no one is watching.

Blew me away...
Any way, I said to this man at the bus stop with one leg
How you getting on, alright!!

Regards
Ace

[NancyV]

I went over to Nexus to read some of the posts there and a part of me got literally nauseated at reading the comments from some of the posters in their slimy attacks and innuendos against Inelia and their outright nasty comments against Bill and assumptions about who he is. After feeling sick I then laughed at the absurdity of it all.

Some of you who are both here and on Nexus are saying that you stay here because of the "friends" you have here, but I would guess that many of you who say that are really staying here just to create or engage in more conflict.... because conflict is FUN! Yes, there are many of us who enjoy conflict or at least we are willing to participate in it long after we could just let it die. We like to keep it going because it satisfies a deep longing we have for passionate interactions in our lives and allows us to stand firm in some illusionary belief we have decided to defend (and they're all illusionary). I am occasionally (even often) willing to engage in conflict so I know how good it feels. It's a fun game.

Looks like Bill is not playing your conflict game in a very satisfying manner though. He's being who he is and not who you think he should be. So that frustrates you even more and your attacks get nastier. Really you are not frustrated or outraged, you're having a lot of fun with this game!! I guess it's fortunate that Bill is not like you so you can have more fun making him the bad guy for not living up to your expectations of who he should be.

It all boils down to your individual beliefs and judgments of how someone else "should" act, how they should do things the way you would do them. As long as you expect others to be like you you will continue to be outraged when they don't adhere to the script you have written which dictates their words and actions. So you take it personally. It is a personal affront to you that Bill did not do as YOU wanted him to do, as YOU wrote his part into the play.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) that control over another's part in the play does not exist. But in reality you DO have total control and none of this "drama" needs to affect you at all. It is your choice to take it personally, to be outraged, to be disappointed, to be conflicted. Then there is the larger reality that none of it matters in the slightest. If you choose to make this conflict important in your life, so be it. It's because you're enjoying the game.

The reality is that this is Bill's forum. He will make the rules. You will either follow the rules or leave or be booted out. Period. Simple. Easy to understand. Any emotional reactions one has to that reality are their own dramas they feel like sharing with others to make themselves feel good and to have fun expressing their personal points of view.

If any of you who have gravitated to the energy over at the Nexus forum think that it's so wonderful because you can trash anyone in any way you want without repercussions and you can celebrate the wonderful "free speech" over there, then I'm wondering why you can't fully type out certain 4 letter words or words that many people think are nasty? Hmmm.... seems like a bit of censorship has already been imposed. Who was that imposed by? The administrators and moderators!! You mean there is actually a hierarchy over there that is making decisions about the "best" interests of the forum? Where is your egalitarian social order now? Oh yeah, it never existed. There will always be a hierarchy here in 3D constructs and groups. You are only completely sovereign over yourself.

Nancy

[ROMANWKT]

My word, are we still at it, I thought it would be over by today, but No.

We are all here by invitation only to a private guests house owned and run by our host Bill Ryan and his Mods. The name of the house is Avalon. Bill Ryan invites like minded guests to his home to discuss and share all issues concerning life and beyond.

Some of the guests are outright rude and disrespectful to their host and his guests, some are completely of topic for the house of Avalon, some get even ruder when their behavior is pointed out which is not applicable behavior in his house for himself and his many guests inside and outside of the house.

He and his guests have been insulted point blank, and action has been taken to restore the guest list to be on track for what Avalon stands for, and the kind of respect that any host and his guests would naturally expected to receive.

He Bill Ryan has every right to take action as he see fit to put AVALON back on course for his guests, and restore respectful composure to his house.

PLEASE TELL ME WHICH BIT DO SOME PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ????????????????????

My regards to all
roman

[Inelia]

I have spent two day's reading this fascinating thread.

And the line that done it for me was.

Integrity is something you use While no one is watching.

Blew me away...
Any way, I said to this man at the bus stop with one leg
How you getting on, alright!!

Regards
Ace

Indeed, this is very important. Integrity starts with the self.

I would say that there is a separation going on, with regards people in real life, the Internet and beyond. but the way I see it is not so much a “separation” but that there is a regathering going on. No right or wrong, or us/them, although this does come up in lower harmonics, more of a realignment of harmony.

The “politically correct” mindset of allowing enormous low vibe communications and attacks on people and posts in the internet is very prominent in other forums, it simply not allowed here. This fact has never been a secret. Those who don’t agree with this are less than a handful of members, and it’s surprising that they are still here... they are very loud about it though and create a type of off balance of viewpoint of agreement/disagreement which is not really a true reflection of what the overall membership is happy/unhappy with.

Personally speaking, this is a place I like to hang out in. And I like to hang out here because of the great majority of members who make this place what it is. High vibe, respectful, filled with integrity, enormous variety of viewpoints, beliefs and practices. A shining gem and safe environment to those who come here as readers or participants.

Nancy
you totally rock girl!
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=203864&viewfull=1#post203864

[Gaia]

PLEASE TELL ME WHICH BIT DO SOME PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ????????????????????

I feel sad that people I highly appreciated for their commitment to find truth just left !....Peoples who bully on any forum due to their pride and arrogance need to be shown the truth and reality...

Lets face it ,it all belongs to the ego.

[Bill Ryan]

I went over to Nexus to read some of the posts there and a part of me got literally nauseated at reading the comments from some of the posters in their slimy attacks and innuendos against Inelia and their outright nasty comments against Bill and assumptions about who he is. After feeling sick I then laughed at the absurdity of it all.

Some of you who are both here and on Nexus are saying that you stay here because of the "friends" you have here, but I would guess that many of you who say that are really staying here just to create or engage in more conflict.... because conflict is FUN! Yes, there are many of us who enjoy conflict or at least we are willing to participate in it long after we could just let it die. We like to keep it going because it satisfies a deep longing we have for passionate interactions in our lives and allows us to stand firm in some illusionary belief we have decided to defend (and they're all illusionary). I am occasionally (even often) willing to engage in conflict so I know how good it feels. It's a fun game.

Looks like Bill is not playing your conflict game in a very satisfying manner though. He's being who he is and not who you think he should be. So that frustrates you even more and your attacks get nastier. Really you are not frustrated or outraged, you're having a lot of fun with this game!! I guess it's fortunate that Bill is not like you so you can have more fun making him the bad guy for not living up to your expectations of who he should be.

It all boils down to your individual beliefs and judgments of how someone else "should" act, how they should do things the way you would do them. As long as you expect others to be like you you will continue to be outraged when they don't adhere to the script you have written which dictates their words and actions. So you take it personally. It is a personal affront to you that Bill did not do as YOU wanted him to do, as YOU wrote his part into the play.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) that control over another's part in the play does not exist. But in reality you DO have total control and none of this "drama" needs to affect you at all. It is your choice to take it personally, to be outraged, to be disappointed, to be conflicted. Then there is the larger reality that none of it matters in the slightest. If you choose to make this conflict important in your life, so be it. It's because you're enjoying the game.

The reality is that this is Bill's forum. He will make the rules. You will either follow the rules or leave or be booted out. Period. Simple. Easy to understand. Any emotional reactions one has to that reality are their own dramas they feel like sharing with others to make themselves feel good and to have fun expressing their personal points of view.

If any of you who have gravitated to the energy over at the Nexus forum think that it's so wonderful because you can trash anyone in any way you want without repercussions and you can celebrate the wonderful "free speech" over there, then I'm wondering why you can't fully type out certain 4 letter words or words that many people think are nasty? Hmmm.... seems like a bit of censorship has already been imposed. Who was that imposed by? The administrators and moderators!! You mean there is actually a hierarchy over there that is making decisions about the "best" interests of the forum? Where is your egalitarian social order now? Oh yeah, it never existed. There will always be a hierarchy here in 3D constructs and groups. You are only completely sovereign over yourself.

Nancy


Nancy
you totally rock girl!


You do! :) Nancy, once again you're crystal clear about what's right and wrong, and willing to tell it like it is: highly articulately, and with intelligence and respect.

No way could I have said it any better myself. If reading or writing that negative energy makes anyone feel good, then don't let me stop them. But just take yourself elsewhere and do not bring this junk here.


I would say that there is a separation going on, with regards people in real life, the Internet and beyond. but the way I see it is not so much a “separation” but that there is a regathering going on. No right or wrong, or us/them, although this does come up in lower harmonics, more of a realignment of harmony.

The “politically correct” mindset of allowing enormous low vibe communications and attacks on people and posts in the internet is very prominent in other forums, it simply not allowed here. This fact has never been a secret. Those who don’t agree with this are less than a handful of members, and it’s surprising that they are still here... they are very loud about it though and create a type of off balance of viewpoint of agreement/disagreement which is not really a true reflection of what the overall membership is happy/unhappy with.

Personally speaking, this is a place I like to hang out in. And I like to hang out here because of the great majority of members who make this place what it is. High vibe, respectful, filled with integrity, enormous variety of viewpoints, beliefs and practices. A shining gem and safe environment to those who come here as readers or participants.


Exactly.

Folks, note what Inelia mentions about the separation: this is my observation as well. And it may well continue to manifest in various ways over the next couple of years.

Ultimately, of course, we're all in this together. I stand for every being in the universe, whatever their history, anger or pain.

But before we get that all handled, we need to organize in strong groups, and maybe not everyone can be a part of that in its initial stages.

Charity begins at home, and some people on Planet Earth have to clean themselves up first a little (or bring themselves up to speed) before they're in a position to fully support others.

This is not the kind of thing that some people like to hear: but it's true.

[SKAWF]

i'm thinking, that a lot of people on this forum DO have integrity.
and thats why some of us didnt get the 'meaning' of the thread.
or at least we possibly were not aware of the reasoning behind the threads conception.
the word integrity, like the word Balance, has many different meanings.
and the relevance of the word means diferent things to different people.

its an observation on my part, that some who have spoken out, or disagreed with.....
are still here. so maybe it isnt about that.
i read the thread on nexus.

if i found out that someone was saying things like that about me,
i would make sure that they knew exactly what i thought of them,
and in front of as many people as possible.

in RL there was a guy called ian, he would make himself out to be a friend,
shaking my hand and saying hello.
he had this habit though, when he was erm intoxicated, he couldnt keep his mouth shut.
he was talking with a girl who i liked... i'd heard my name mentioned,
so i sat on the chair that was behind him, and rolled a smoke.

i heard him say to her,
'go with him then, sleep with him, find out what a w*nker he is'

i walked away, same bloke ten mins later comes up to me, acting like he's my best mate.

who is the real w*anker?.

some people ive met though, i didnt like at first, but over time ive grown to respect them.
ive found i can engage with them, work with them.
one guy called Otis said to me, 'you're alright man, i like people that are on a level, d'ya know what i mean?'

i do.

maybe if bill had posted a link to the nexus thread, and THEN made a statement about integrity,
things would have been much clearer.

for the last 2 days, i have been thinking, that i was going to be kicked out,
for not living up to someone elses defintion of integrity.

i know what bill means by the defintion he posted, but
if you can point me to the being that lives that way all the time, i want to meet him.
IMO the only way one can maintain that state of being, is when one is alone.

you cant talk to a hells angels member like he's your gran. you'll lose teeth.
also you might have to engage with those of a different perspective.
i reckon in a minor way, we compromise our own integrity every day, just by living.

there is nearly 7 billion people on this planet,
so why is it, that if you had to count your 'true' friends,
you could do it with the figers of one hand?

steve

[Gone002]

Would you be able to tell use were this all came from or did i miss the information. this "separation" came out of no ware in my eyes , also together we are stronger regardless of cread/history/pain/angry. regardless of what happens in the world there will always be different kinds of people, even when we leave this shell we will all be different even in ascension.

[Arpheus]

My take is ,if the 33 actually do exist at all wich i am not so sure about it,but lets assume they do ,they are all gathered around a big oval table right now smoking their big cigars and drinking the best scotch money can buy and they are telling each other,you see i told you guys there was nothing to worry about it everything is going according to the plan i can almost hear all their evil laughs all across the ether,like i said folks there is a hidden hand behind all of this and only the blind cannot see that,it seems to me they are on the winning side so far,we got a lot of catch up to do if we are to stand a chance of winning this dirty game!

[SKAWF]

they will fail due to their own complacency.

the tortoise and the hare

the best thing for us, is to stop playing their game, and start playing our own

[Lord Sidious]

I feel like putting my head through the nearest wall.
When will all this end?
How much is enough?
What is it that we all want to achieve?
Remember, that if we engage in a ****fight, we all get covered in it.
My heart is heavy with seeing people I care about being asked to leave and the others throwing crap around like a bunch of chimpanzees at the zoo.
I hoped we were better than this.
And we are going to heal the world?
We need to heal US first.
I invite and implore those of you who can heal to turn your abilities on to all of those that are casualties in this.........stupidity.
This is like one of those wars that go on so long no one remembers the why.

[K626]

I feel like putting my head through the nearest wall.
When will all this end?
How much is enough?
What is it that we all want to achieve?
Remember, that if we engage in a ****fight, we all get covered in it.
My heart is heavy with seeing people I care about being asked to leave and the others throwing crap around like a bunch of chimpanzees at the zoo.
I hoped we were better than this.
And we are going to heal the world?
We need to heal US first.
I invite and implore those of you who can heal to turn your abilities on to all of those that are casualties in this.........stupidity.
This is like one of those wars that go on so long no one remembers the why.

This is indeed one of the saddest threads I have seen in my 4 years on Camelot/Avalon.

Peace and love to all the posters in here.

K

[Gaia]

My heart is heavy with seeing people I care about being asked to leave and the others throwing crap around like a bunch of chimpanzees at the zoo.
I hoped we were better than this.
And we are going to heal the world?
We need to heal US first.
I invite and implore those of you who can heal to turn your abilities on to all of those that are casualties in this.........stupidity.
This is like one of those wars that go on so long no one remembers the why.

We do have the choice to stop feeding the beast but that is up to each one.

[Chicodoodoo]

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views.

I have to say that I have sometimes thanked people for their postings when I certainly didn't agree with what they said. Usually I did this because I recognized and appreciated the time, effort, and thought that they put into the post. Sometimes there is only one line in a post that brings me greater clarity about some subject, and just for that I am grateful. There can be any number of reasons why I thank the author for a "useful post", including of course, total agreement with what they expressed. I would hate to be judged by the thanks I give, though I realize we all have a tendency to judge like that. To be unsubscribed and have my voice silenced here for the thanks I give on another forum could really be unjust, I would think.

[K626]

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views.

I have to say that I have sometimes thanked people for their postings when I certainly didn't agree with what they said. Usually I did this because I recognized and appreciated the time, effort, and thought that they put into the post. Sometimes there is only one line in a post that brings me greater clarity about some subject, and just for that I am grateful. There can be any number of reasons why I thank the author for a "useful post", including of course, total agreement with what they expressed. I would hate to be judged by the thanks I give, though I realize we all have a tendency to judge like that. To be unsubscribed and have my voice silenced here for the thanks I give on another forum could really be unjust, I would think.

I'm similar in the sense that I invest my thanks and not always to posts that I agree with, I might resonate to it on another level or it might remind me of MYSELF in the past or I just like the thought process that has gone into it rather than just the conclusion or argument. Or sometimes I just thank people for the effort or research that is clearly the BACK STORY of the post.

K

[sepia]

I feel like putting my head through the nearest wall.
When will all this end?
How much is enough?
What is it that we all want to achieve?
Remember, that if we engage in a ****fight, we all get covered in it.
My heart is heavy with seeing people I care about being asked to leave and the others throwing crap around like a bunch of chimpanzees at the zoo.
I hoped we were better than this.
And we are going to heal the world?
We need to heal US first.
I invite and implore those of you who can heal to turn your abilities on to all of those that are casualties in this.........stupidity.
This is like one of those wars that go on so long no one remembers the why.

This is indeed one of the saddest threads I have seen in my 4 years on Camelot/Avalon.

Peace and love to all the posters in here.

K

Sad, very sad.

...and there are some hearts out there to be healed.

Sepia

[Gaia]

I feel like putting my head through the nearest wall.
When will all this end?
How much is enough?
What is it that we all want to achieve?
Remember, that if we engage in a ****fight, we all get covered in it.
My heart is heavy with seeing people I care about being asked to leave and the others throwing crap around like a bunch of chimpanzees at the zoo.
I hoped we were better than this.
And we are going to heal the world?
We need to heal US first.
I invite and implore those of you who can heal to turn your abilities on to all of those that are casualties in this.........stupidity.
This is like one of those wars that go on so long no one remembers the why.

This is indeed one of the saddest threads I have seen in my 4 years on Camelot/Avalon.

Peace and love to all the posters in here.

K
Visitors must think we are kindergarden fools.IMHO

[Mr54]

Integrity?
Credibility?
Fragility?
Insecurity?

Division!

Is this what Avalon is for?

Has the purpose changed?

This is exhausting and distracting.

One of the least valuable threads I've read!

A shame............................................. ....

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Wow, all these people being unsubscribed! Bit of a shock if people are just speaking their minds...


There is a huge difference between speaking your mind and straight up slander. I'm also noticing that some people are showing their true colors with absolutely childish name calling. Any sympathy they MIGHT have had for getting banned is gone. They themselves have proven that it was the right call. I hope that these very negative expressions are never acceptable here.

Another thing, could we please refrain from speculations and assumptions about Bill, Inelia, Kerry, and all of the dynamics and motivations surrounding them as people? That has nothing to do with Avalon's goals. dynamics between Bil and Kerry are their business. Dynamics between Bill and Inelila are their business. Dynamics between Inelia and Kerry are their business. Let'e refrain from assumptions and projections. At best it's just distraction, and in my opinion, it's none of our business.

Some of you (I don't mean you, Lily) are making me very angry. Thank you for the gift of giving me a chance to practice controlling and processing my anger. I'm still learning.

I'm left wondering why some of you are still here if you disagree so strongly with everything. What is your goal and motivation regarding Avalon? Are you trying to "champion the rights of the people" or something? Are you Luke Skywalker fighting against Darth Bill? If Bill is such a misguided egomaniac and Avalon is so terrible, why not go? I would. All I am saying is take a moment to reflect on your goals.

Some people are really milking this for the drama, whether they realize it or not. Groups of people instinctually identify an external threat as a form of group bonding and to foster a sense of belonging among members. Don't get sucked into it.

I don't care if some of you reading this think some of us are "yes men/women" or "obedient Bill followers". I could care less. That's for me to worry about. And I sure don't need anyone to show me the light or save me, so if this applies to you, go get a life.

Thank you.

P.S. In my opinion (once again) Bill has never owed any of you an explanation for anything. That's your delusion.

[greybeard]

All I can say is be patient
The law of karma can not be denied
If a person with integrity in their intention unwittingly hurts another that is unfortunate but the karma is softened by the intention
If a person claims integrity but is actually acting out of agenda - self interest -- with malice -- any negative intention-- particularly falsely claiming to be acting for the good of another then the consequence are exactly equal to the true intention.

In fairness my actions do not alway match my overall intention, which is to be kind to all life including my own.
To err is human to forgive is Divine
This is Easter it is well to remember Christs last words --- "Forgive them for they know not what they do."


Given time it will all sort itself out.

Chris

[sandy]

There is great value in positive feed back - that is integrity
The opinions I held over the years have been modified changed because I listened to constructive criticism. (there has been plenty--- laughing)
I know my opinions will change, mature over the coming days weeks years -- if I thought I was correct in my views -- set in concrete how could I grow?

A good example was the early guided missile --it would veer to the left after take off -- then the computor would direct it to the opposite direct ie right.
It would then veer right but not so far -- soon it would cease these fluctuations and be on target.
I would not claim to be on target yet far less right.
Part of integrity is being open minded.
Eventually you dont have a set opinion.
That might seem strange.

The Course in Miracles says, as far as I remember "The moment that you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion."
Eckhart Tolle says " I dont take my thoughts too seriously"

Paul Simon "One mans ceiling another mans floor"

We all have different points of view thats the way it is.

Happy Easter

Chris

Greybeard My Friend,

So happy you are posting today>>>>>>I love your being and wisdom and the fact that you tell your story and make your posts very relate-able. You don't talk down to people and I so value you for this:) and that is why I always make sure and read what you have to say whenever you post.

[MMA_Fan]

All I can say is be patient
The law of karma can not be denied
If a person with integrity in their intention unwittingly hurts another that is unfortunate but the karma is softened by the intention
If a person claims integrity but is actually acting out of agenda - self interest -- with malice -- any negative intention-- particularly falsely claiming to be acting for the good of another then the consequence are exactly equal to the true intention.

In fairness my actions do not alway match my overall intention, which is to be kind to all life including my own.
To err is human to forgive is Divine
This is Easter it is well to remember Christs last words --- "Forgive them for they know not what they do."


Given time it will all sort itself out.

Chris

I always enjoy your posts Chris, you're like a strong anchor that keeps the thread ship where it needs to be.
I tip my proverbial hat to you :)

I have seen this seperation of people gaining momentum for a while now and not just on the internet. I don't see the bad in it anymore (thanks to this thread), more like people choosing what they like from a buffet. It's only when people criticise the choice of food of the others that the problems continue.

[Rocky_Shorz]

actually, visitors are here because of this thread...

and I'm sure most see that there isn't fighting going on here, just working out an understanding between members...

Modwiz and Shiva I see you are with us and you will both be missed...

[3optic]

I'd like to propose we expel members for posts they did not thank. BTW everyone must thank this post OR YOU ARE GONE! :D

[Chicodoodoo]

If I were to choose a team of Avalon members to while away the time on a desert island (or a spaceship on a long trip), Chickodoodoo would be right there on my list.

Thank you, Bill. I appreciate your kind words. While we pass the time on that desert island (I prefer that to a space flight), you might work on the spelling of my name. ;)

Even if you insist on adding a "k" in my name, I suspect we would indeed get along quite well. By the way, the "Chico" part is pronounced like the Mexicans would say it, as in "cheek-oh". The "doodoo" has a Norwegian accent to it. Imagine a Norwegian parent that knows a little Spanish using the name as a term of endearment for a small child, and you will have it!


It's interesting to me that negative comments are so often made by people hiding behind anonymity, and not taking any responsibility for their statements, the hurt they cause others who are trying to do what they can to help, or the negative influence they are spreading.

Yes, a part of integrity is what you do when you have complete anonymity. Another part is what you do when you have the spotlight. When they are the same, you are true to yourself.


Words on the internet are cheap. The courage to communicate in person is not.

Words anywhere can be cheap (witness Obama), but when used properly, they can form a conduit along which integrity flows (witness Alex Collier).

[manny]

forgiveness.
humbleness.
humility.
love.
peace.
learning curve.
friendship.
to learn by mistakes.
equality.
free speech.
respect.
enlightenment.
transformation.
ego.
awareness.

make of these what it means to you.

[NancyV]

you cant talk to a hells angels member like he's your gran. you'll lose teeth.
also you might have to engage with those of a different perspective.
i reckon in a minor way, we compromise our own integrity every day, just by living.

steve
Steve, your statement about the hell's angels and how you CAN'T treat them illustrates how a strong belief is just that, a personal "belief" we have adopted and bought into, not necessarily a reality. Treating a hell's angel member like your gran is EXACTLY how I treated them when I happened to have a boyfriend who was a hell's angel back in the 70's when I lived in Southern California. My present husband also occasionally rode with the hell's angels before he went off to Vietnam and to this day I treat him like he's a pussycat or my gran. It's like soothing the savage beast. Of course I do have an unfair advantage being a woman. LOL...

If you truly believe something is scary, it will be scary. If you believe it's a pussycat it will often purr at you. I don't consider communicating or engaging with others who come from different perspectives to be compromising my integrity. It's great practice learning how to communicate with potentially dangerous people and can help you in other dimensions when you run across what seem to be negative or demonic type beings. To establish communication you might have to speak their particular "language" first, then once you have them intrigued (or hooked) you can shift the energy to your desired type of communication. I pretty much treat them all the same and they almost all end up purring. If they insist on continuing the conflict game past a certain point, I banish them out of my life. Sort of like what Bill is doing in his life and forum.

Nancy :)

PS: I see nothing sad or wrong with this thread. Sh** happens, life changes, forums change, people come and go and so what. I don't usually feel sad at the reality of online interactions or interpersonal interactions. It's constant change. If someone wants to feel sad that is a personal choice and a valid one for them. I much prefer happy or detached! You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need.

Here's a great version of that song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0GKiNp9-Bk&feature=fvwrel

[thunder24]

so this thread was started three days after the full moon. could of fooled me, seems like its been a full moon all week.
So back to what happened...Did the moon cause this or was it A.I.? Were some peoples minds taken over and they accepted the thought suggestions as their own?

Heal Avalon, Heel...thats it, good community, good gathering.
peace

[Dragonfly]

forgiveness.
humbleness.
humility.
love.
peace.
learning curve.
friendship.
to learn by mistakes.
equality.
free speech.
respect.
enlightenment.
transformation.
ego.
awareness.

make of these what it means to you.

Manny, if I could, I would push the thank you button 1000 times:cool:

[manny]

forgiveness.
humbleness.
humility.
love.
peace.
learning curve.
friendship.
to learn by mistakes.
equality.
free speech.
respect.
enlightenment.
transformation.
ego.
awareness.

make of these what it means to you.

Manny, if I could, I would push the thank you button 1000 times:cool:
no disrepect.
i could not care if i get thanked once or a thousand times.
as long as it makes sense to one person.
then its worth it.;)

[manny]

years ago me and a friend departed ways.
seperated for about three years.
eventually we got back in touch.
now we are the best of friends.

the door was never closed.

[learninglight]

Hi all

I want to put this on here just to bring a smile to your faces; i hope you take it in the way it is meant
B6-oKlPt6IA

[Bill Ryan]

no disrepect.
i could not care if i get thanked once or a thousand times.
as long as it makes sense to one person.
then its worth it.;)


years ago me and a friend departed ways.
seperated for about three years.
eventually we got back in touch.
now we are the best of friends.

the door was never closed.

Manny is a member I very greatly value here. He had a couple of temporary bans after battling with his demons and losing his cool, we communicated with him extensively backchannel, and he returned and apologized so sincerely it was inspiring.

We offered him all the support we could, he's had a bit of a roller-coaster ride, and he's a model for us now from whom others are learning. I wish everyone could match his courage and his spirit.

[SKAWF]

hi Nancy,

i was trying to pick two extremes!.
i know what you're saying though.

i'll try to clarify....

when i meet someone, if i'm listening to what they say, i dont exist.
only they do. i try to engage with people on their level where possible.
sort of like meeting them halfway, and its different for each person.
mostly what people get back from me, is what they give out

there are times that i deliberately tone down what i'm saying dependant on the company i'm in.
or sometimes i say nothing at all, even though i have something i could say.

if we were being strict with the definition,
it could be argued that my integrity suffers on those occaisions,
even though my core values remain intact.

like i say, i really really want to meet the being who holds a state of pure integrity all of the time.
i dont believe he/she exists.
i reckon for most, integrity is more an aspiration than a reality.
even more so in a corrupted world.

cheers

steve

[giovonni]

no disrepect.
i could not care if i get thanked once or a thousand times.
as long as it makes sense to one person.
then its worth it.;)


years ago me and a friend departed ways.
seperated for about three years.
eventually we got back in touch.
now we are the best of friends.

the door was never closed.

Manny is a member I very greatly value here. He had a couple of temporary bans after battling with his demons and losing his cool, we communicated with him extensively backchannel, and he returned and apologized so sincerely it was inspiring.

We offered him all the support we could, he's had a bit of a roller-coaster ride, and he's a model for us now from whom others are learning. I wish everyone could match his courage and his spirit.

Bill ~ Could this be a possible course of a rectification method or channel to any of those that were banned > in seeking (pursuing) an amicable good faith reconciliation with you and the Avalon Forum?

[truthseekerdan]

The layers to our negative programming might be so extensive that we are not able to recognize our true image or even know who we really are unless we begin to live in the present, where our thoughts are free from any errors from the past. What we think about most we eventually become, so every step we take, every move we make, every word we say, is affecting the integrity of our real identity.

Love is the one thing that cannot be divided by an inflated ego because of its integrity. Where there is integrity, there is completeness. Where their is completeness, there is wholeness. Where there is wholeness, there is reality. When something is real, it is truth.


Blessings to All

[Ross]

Hello all,

Perhaps these posts I dragged out of the archives may be of help with this current thread...perhaps.

But before you read them:

None of us are equipped fully, (yet) with operating from the highest good all of the time. That place in us all, that does understand this essence, is always tested. Some days we are at our best, others we are far from it.

Underneath it all, we are fundermentally the same as each other.



Your continuing journey towards understanding yourself, understanding that you only have control over yourself, understanding that you are leading by example for all around you to witness, understanding "what you think you create" understanding that the key is already in you.

The greatest challenge we ever face in this life is ourselves! period. That is our most worthy task, what you are and become, radiates outwardly (at any given moment) You are the greatest investment you will ever make. Invest wisely

The above is centered around "the one thing we should focus our efforts on"... and that is ourselves.





Our intention is the key, with anything we choose to do through our life. Understanding the role of "observer" with yourself, is a great skill to practice. Often we can fail to think about "what we are thinking" and this can remove the process of "what exactly are my intentions here". When we give ourselves time to observe our "thinking" we can better invest in what our intentions are. (the greater good)

Nobody really enjoys operating with intentions that are unhealthy, often, after the fact, we do realise that our response was that of reaction and not an intentional act of "our higher essence". We are all subject to reacting, we all do it and need to forgive ourselves and that of others who fall into this seemingy automatic response mode.

Our intention is the groundwork (investment) for the manifestation of our next moments reality. Invest wisely.

EDIT TO ADD: Intention of a "higher essence" (we all have it) is part of the groundwork for integrity.

Peace to you all.



We can all "fall from grace" and we can all offer profound wisdom. This is the current paradox or duality, as it were.

This is my humble attempt at offering some wisdom to the community and a reminder to myself.

Regards,

Ross.

[sandy]

Regards Ross,

That is awesome, thank you for your post :)

[Belle]

Love is the one thing that cannot be divided by an inflated ego because of its integrity. Where there is integrity, there is completeness. Where their is completeness, there is wholeness. Where there is wholeness, there is reality. When something is real, it is truth.

Blessings to All

Your post brought to mind the following from ACIM:

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

[skippy]

qn0iP1pAr_4

[jp11]

I'm having a hard time getting the message to copy from Bill #338 "Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showt...ll=1#post10203"

When all this mess happened a while back I was shocked, saddened and disappointed that in this community personal egos could come to play out as such...but then as Ross and others have said, we all have challenges from time to time. I was offended and angered by Céline many times before they were asked to leave...and I did go to Nexus to read some of what was said in recent posts. When I saw this by Céline, even before I saw Bill quoted it, I again saw what disturbed me before. And thank you Chris for the reminder that in time it will all play out in ones life, what is put out will indeed come back.

But my question to you Bill, were the most recent members asked to leave because of what was posted and/or thanked at another forum? If so, I find this disappointing as well. I do agree that integrity is most evident by what one does when no one is watching, but to ban someone from Avalon because of what was written at Nexus begs the question about integrity. I don't want to assume anything, just asking a question.

I have followed you and Kerry for quite a few years, shortly after PC was created. I admire, respect, and appreciate both of you immensely. I've done a lot of work on myself, seeing when my ego is reacting, and reading this thread has been an adventure in observing that in action. :rolleyes:

[benevolentcrow]

I try not to hurt anything or anyone. I once tried to be nice to a wasp and not kill him, not a wise decision. I was stung by the wasp, at that point pain and anger took over and he was squashed. Drastic action was taken on my part. I now look at wasps in a different light and steer clear of them or let them out of my house to fly elsewhere to cause to pain or live there life at a new location. Moral of the story live and learn... All experiences leads to wisdom. Life is a learning process for all of us.

Experience is not what happens to a man. It is what a man does with what happens to him. ~Aldous Leonard Huxley

The road to wisdom?
Well, it's plain
and simple to express:
Err
and err
and err again
but less
and less
and less.
~Piet Hein

[Hypothetical]

Folks, note what Inelia mentions about the separation: this is my observation as well. And it may well continue to manifest in various ways over the next couple of years.

Ultimately, of course, we're all in this together. I stand for every being in the universe, whatever their history, anger or pain.

But before we get that all handled, we need to organize in strong groups, and maybe not everyone can be a part of that in its initial stages.

Charity begins at home, and some people on Planet Earth have to clean themselves up first a little (or bring themselves up to speed) before they're in a position to fully support others.

This is not the kind of thing that some people like to hear: but it's true.

Let's set the lead by taking the high road. No sense of debating this if someone is blatantly saying negatives to others ask them to leave if they continue remove them. No need to discuss the matter beyond that. Let's not fuel Egos need for dominance. Close this thread and move on! we all will be better off.

[jorr lundstrom]

Now I know wot happened to Modwiz, and why. Thank you. :tape2:


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajimparaply.jpg

[Lifesong]

Have you ever known anyone who in any given situation may have assumed the worst of you, even though they knew the best of you? It feels to me like there's been an abundance of this kind of energy in the air lately. Especially between forums.

Anyway, I think integrity also includes gratitude.

This is for Bill and for Modwiz, GoldenYears and all of the other familiar screen names I've seen recently reading the Nexus forum links in this thread:

My gratitude to you all for your words, your friendship, for sharing your hearts and your thoughts. I see the best of you. :)


“Let us rise up and be thankful, for if we didn’t learn a lot today, at least we learned a little, and if we didn’t learn a little, at least we didn’t get sick, and if we got sick, at least we didn’t die; so, let us all be thankful.”
~Buddha, a great soul…

“Saying thank you is more than good manners. It is good spirituality”
~Alfred Painter….

“Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin, and an antiseptic”
~John Henry Jowett

“Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”
~Cicero..

” Kindness trumps greed: it asks for sharing. Kindness trumps fear: it calls forth gratefulness and love. Kindness trumps even stupidity, for with sharing and love, one learns.
~Marc Estrin

” Let us be grateful to people who make us happy; they are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom.
~Marcel Proust..

[edina]

"Integrity is what you do when no one is looking."

Thank you Dennis, I think this also defines transparency. Which means, since you have nothing to hide, you don't mind people looking. When people ask honest questions, or have honest concerns, they get honest answers.

I find that when a person is clear about themselves, their own inner motivations, and feelings, when they take ownership of their thoughts, emotions, feelings, attitudes, perceptions, actions, and reactions; they become very responsive and accountable to their own inner and highly dynamic world, they become equally responsive to their outer world, as well, this includes their other selves.

I have discovered that these people are consistently very accepting of the people around them. They do not feel a need police their friends.

These people are very comfortable being forthright, genuine, honest, direct.
They are comfortable with self examination.
They have embrace their humanity.
And therefore they are very comfortable with the humanity in other people.

If they have had their feelings hurt by someone, they do the reasonable and emotionally mature thing, they take that hurt to the person who hurt them and make an honest and genuine attempt to repair and reconcile.

The meaning of what they say is clear, there is no obfuscation or murkiness in their words. People can trust that what they say is what they mean. People around them do not have to wonder about their cryptic meaning. And when people ask for clarity they make a good hearted attempt at trying to be clearer.

I, too value this.

I discovered many years ago that I also I value authenticity, over politeness.

I prefer to deal with people who are very real, even if they be a bit messy at times.

I find I have very little patience for people who chose to manipulate others, no matter now noble their cause.

I am weighing in on these matters very seriously right now.

When I first joined Avalon, there was much discussion about Avalon as a model for community.

In fact, I believe it was initially founded with the ground crew community idea at the forefront of its mission.

It's true, forums evolve. However, in the short time I have been a member of this community. It has evolved from a community of many to a house of one.

All based on a metaphor, that in all honesty has gone awry.

It's important to remember that a metaphor, or analogy is not reality, any more that a map of a mountain, is the mountain.

If we want a model for this forum; I no longer consider it a community of souls, that has somehow been hi-jacked over the past two months; if we want to model this forum on some sort of a metaphor or analogy, may I suggest a new model.

Nature.
Nature, the wonderful Diversity of Oneness.
Nature is inherently balanced.
Nature is inclusive of all Life.
Nature is eternally forgiving.
Nature simply allows life to be what Life is.
Nature is raw, wild, real, and transparent. What you see is what you get.
I cannot think of anything else that has more integrity than Nature.

I'm certain there are more ways we can play with this.

Consider this for a moment, which I now know is 3 seconds, per a thread that I read that was posted by Swami in the Nexus Forum.

Breathe in, pause,............................................ ........exhale and relax.

Deep Peace to all involved.

[Gone001]

Hello Everrrbody,

This whole thing seems so strange now. It's like a glove that once fit perfectly but it's somehow shrunk so when you put it on it feels somehow uncomfortable and different from before. This thread is a good example of the new tone that is apparent whenever logging into Avalon. Here's integrity...here's it's definition...now have some or go. Act accordingly or find yourself on the chopping block like so and so and so. I must admit I'm not that sad to see some of the members that have gone go, some I am though; Some were great and some were sorely belligerent.

I myself have been in a couple scuffles on this site. Some were fairly silly and I mostly engaged for reasons purely of pride. Other situations were completely different. There have been times when I've seen members posting who upon reading there posts I find myself feeling ill. What intensity's this ill feeling is on occasion people actually pay attention to what these people may be saying. On those occasions I've engaged these members (And I don't name names) for the simple reason of forcing them to show their true colors or lack of actual knowledge; for you see I can't hand out bans. At these times it's my perception that I'm doing the right thing for my community even though my community may not view it that way at the time for they perceive from another place.

It's not something I find at all fun. I find engaging to be completely tiring and at times when doing it you bring yourself down to the level of those you engage. Sometimes the ends justify the means though... sometimes they don't but there's always an accompanying sense of urgency that comes when trying to stay true to yourself and your perception of what is right. With this in mind integrity is unique to how the individual perceives what is right and must be accompanied with pure, untainted logic.

This is Bill's website. He'll do what he has to do based on his perception of integrity. Without knowing everything he knows or how he feels it's hard for another creature such as myself to say if he's completely right or wrong. I know that I disagree with his actions at times. I also agree with his actions at times. Mostly I feel things are off though... like my now too tight glove that once fit so perfectly. I suppose soon enough we'll all know if the end justifies the means. Until then we're all just along for the ride, opinions ablaze as we seek to locate the bottom of the never ending rabbit hole.

Cheers,

Aldous

[Tahi]

This is what I agreed too and signed up for:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forumdisplay.php?61-Welcome-New-Members

Welcome to Avalon!

Dear New Avalonian,
Welcome to the Project Avalon Forum. We sincerely hope you enjoy your stay.

This forum is a little different in a number of ways:

First of all you had to be invited to get here!

A lot of the forum is hidden to non-members (including this message). There are some readable areas, but most require you to be a member to not only see them, but post as well.

Membership is tiered. This means that the more you post and the longer you've been a member, the more you can do.

Community Groups can now be found on the top menu under Community > Groups.

What happened to the original Avalon Forum?

As happens with many forums, what we now call 'Avalon 1' descended into an uncomfortable degree of chaos. When this happens in a public place (whether physical or virtual), it's always the actions of individuals that perpetrate that.

Much of the time - but not always - this is deliberate. What we can say is that a number of members there were not at the same spiritual and intellectual level and understanding as we hope and believe you are - hence your invitation.

A way forward needed to be found that allowed the message and vision that this forum represents to be preserved and supported by members who are fully in support of all the principles we espouse.

What is that Message and Vision?

In creating this new forum, we're encouraging all members who've been invited here to:

Start or participate in community projects that will radiate out to the members' communities - or

Post information and participate in regards to awakening; spirituality; healing humanity; galactic and earth changes; '2012' (whatever that may mean!); geopolitics; new science; hidden history; ETs and disclosure; what we are not being told by those who might wish to control us - and much else.

Please be proactive in real time in the true spirit of Avalon. Many of you already do, of course. However, we'd like you all to share more about these activities as it will lead to others becoming awakened.

So...

Please do us and this forum proud - and show us the spiritual beings we know you to be.

Please always remember that this is in essence a private party. We value quality, not quantity. We don't aspire to be like Above Top Secret or Godlike Productions (and there are good reasons for that). This private party is a place of learning, awareness, respect, intelligence, community and fun.

We're delighted to have accepted your membership application on the basis of what we believe we understand about you.

Please understand that if we come to understand other aspects which were not apparent when we first started to get to know you, then we may politely ask you to leave.

Please see this clarifying post for a little more about this. As of 19 January 2011, we're regarding all new Avalonians as PROVISIONAL MEMBERS, who we look forward to upgrading after your first few posts once we have a good idea who you are, what your values are, and how you communicate and relate to others.

If we do ask you to leave, we intend no disrespect - and do not intend conflict. It would just be that the moderator team, working closely together, would have reached the decision that the invitation may have been a mistake and that you may be more satisfied communicating and contributing elsewhere.

A note about the one aspect of the forum which is more controversial than any other: that of channeled messages. The moderator team, fully supported by myself, have made the decision to post a disclaimer on threads on that particular subforum.

My personal opinion, which is fairly well-informed, is that many channeled messages offer many nice words and plenty of saccharine hope - but little of substance and in all probability (I'm afraid) little that is real.

There are deep, dark games played here, and there is much deliberate deception both on the physical (electromagnetic) and astral levels. We encourage intelligent inquiry - and discourage proselytizing and anything that smacks of promoting belief systems of any kind.

And in all that, we're all committed to discovering the truth. My personal purpose is to support that in happening - wherever that leads.

*******

To see the rest of the forum and enable you to post, simply reply to this thread as acknowledgement.

The system will detect the reply. Within 10 minutes, your title will automatically change to Avalon Junior Member and you will be activated.

And for those of you who were long-time senior members of the original Avalon, you'll probably find that you will be manually upgraded to Senior Member by one of the team in due course. I would also encourage you to re-post here your best threads from Avalon 1 so that the new forum may enjoy them. We welcome that.

Once again, welcome aboard. Post your reply, and we'll see you on the other side.

Bill Ryan and the Project Avalon Forum Team

[araucaria]

Dear Lord Sidious
To mangle a quote, 'We want to get out of this thread'! Please do so, I think one of your useful posts on some other subject of substance would be a more appropriate response to this, i.e. discourse not more metadiscourse.


What do we want to get out of this thread?
More people get the boot?
We turn on each other?
We do the work that others would like and have the cohesian we are trying to build shot to ribbons?
I find this all disappointing.

[Jendayi]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

Bill, don't be disingenuous, you are quoting part of a post.
How do you know they agreed with the post in its entirety?
Or if in part? And if in part, which part?
Things are starting to get into the surreal now.
It is almost like the twilight zone.
I would have to think it is carrot time again, except I am not sure who to carrot first.
hi m'lord... i would like a carrot... just to get me back on my feet again...

[Jendayi]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.


Very interesting the whole post seems to be somewhat poisonous, I’m shocked and somewhat saddened that these people would turn on the Avalon community. Attacking anyone in such away is wrong and destroys the ideal of unity and respect Avalon stands for, it seems i may have been fooled into calling them friends; acting in such a way helps no one and tarnishes all involved.
even our closest friend will lash out at us some times... especially when they feel that we have done something wrong to them...
it does not mean they are right (or wrong for that matter) it means they are hurting... and they don't see other ways of expressing it (at that time)
we all love our mothers... however.. haven't we caused them a lot of pain when we were younger? haven't we denied our fathers? some of us have beaten or cursed at our parents and loved ones... not because we hate them... but because we were in pain... blinded by our own emotions... regardless of the validity of the cause of these emotions, they are still there.. wanting to be resolved...

[greybeard]

I have pasted this in as I think it is a very fair opinion expressed by Ross.

He has the utmost integrity in my opinion.

Chris

Re: Question for Those in The Know

Quote Originally Posted by SEAM View Post
I'm personally glad that Bill "is gently" calling out some of the trolls. I am also frankly surprised how many of the "Wannabe" trolls set up shop in "Dick & gas-Celine's" place, disparage everyone here, then come back here to dish out their "Peace, Love, Brother" routine. There is an unwritten law over there, that to gain acceptance you must dis Bill.

But the bottom line, is "Class and Integrity". You either have it or you don't. It's not a part time gig. I say throw them overboard - useless ballast.

By Ross

This comment deserves a reply:

Firstly, you are displaying exactly what you are complaining about. Dis-ing Bill. You refer to Richard as Dick and Celine as Gas...that my friend is a direct intentional provocation. Seems that is your point?.

I see you are a newish Members here. I will give you some facts. Richard has put more hours into this forum than I can count. His efforts, along with Bill, myself and all of the older Mods, have all contributed greatly, along with the long standing Membership to make this Forum what it is. Bill will be the first, and has done many times, to acknowledge the efforts of Richard and the Team for their long serving contribution.

There have been occasions where I have not agreed with Bill, Richard, Celine and others, but we still got the job done and until the end, an admirable effort done by all.

Celine is still the highest poster here, and the bulk of her posts are more than worthy, and on the most part, stand for what Avalon represents.

Sure things got out of hand towards the end and there are two sides to this story my friend. Both sides can argue the point, as to their perspectives of what went wrong and both sides can have grounds to do so. This is life, this is what can happen and it does.

Bill himself has made errors in judgment, as has Richard, Celine and myself, infact most everyone here and in life, in general, has done so.

disparage everyone here, then come back here to dish out their "Peace, Love, Brother" routine. There is an unwritten law over there, that to gain acceptance you must dis Bill.
Wildly incorrect statement, and one that I will correct.

I wrote this below, a few days back to make clear, to all, what we are endeavouring to do.
In regards to threads there.

The Mod team over at Nexus did discuss this thread (at Nexus) and its potential with it becoming problematic. We watched as it was added to and were ready to engage if it became out of hand. There is one post there that I do personally feel is "below the belt" but in general it is a healthy discussion.

We at Nexus have been well aware of some, who feel it was/is necessary to discuss what "happened" at Avalon. We do have a "perspective" thread there which was a worthy avenue for those to discuss their perspectives. We have allowed "free speech" within the bounds of "keeping it as clean as possible". Mods have publicly posted that Nexus is not to be a "bashing" place but felt it was also necessary to have this avenue for the healing process.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is posted by Fred, a long serving member and Mod here at Avalon, a highly respected Man and one who always offers a wise perspective. This post was greatly appreciated by the Team at Nexus and many of its members. This the general view of the Team and the Membership:
You know, it is very difficult to build something, by tearing something else down.

Yes, I know nature does it all the time; but nature does it without malice.
Beyond nature, the universe takes great delight in giving you more of what annoys you. It's just that honest.

Meanwhile, we have built what we wanted to carry on with.

Our membership grows, at a better rate than we hoped.
We have one of the most comprehensive sections on the tragedy in Japan, and what it means for the world, than I have seen on most of the forums I haunt.
There is more coming on this subject.
We have released our first interview, and have several more scheduled.
Several members have already begun sites that either branch off from ideas here, or will add to what is intended here. (Giving space to create these, and a place for people to meet, grow, and branch off seems a good start at healthy parenthood.)

Those of us who came here, began this site, and did so as a continuation of ideas we could no longer practice elsewhere. If people have issues with that, I can't help it. The good faith effort was made to lay out this idea, and it was rejected. I can tell you that no one was happy about that; but we can't carry that along as we go... it doesn't help.

Thanks to everyone who has helped us with that. That help has been important. It has shown that you really can build something which becomes more than yourself, personally, and collectively. What a wonderful child to set loose upon the world.
Fred
Now...all parties involved in the "moving on" (some were permently removed from Avalon) were all equally hurt along with Bill, after more than 2 years this is expected and emotions gather pace and can produce "reactive" behaviour" we all do it, including Bill.

Yes there are some disgruntled members (a few) who have displayed less than honourable posts, just as some here do...but on the most part the members of both forums offer wonderful contributions.

I believe that if all parties involved, were to sit together, over a cuppa, away from the forums, in each other’s energy, with "real" eye contact, much would be resolved.

All these people involved are inherently good folk, all have the ability to "fall from grace" as it were, we are Human beings with all the greatness and dis-function that goes with it.

Lastly:

Everyone involved with both Forums, and others, are all reading the same book, not always the same page, but all standing on the side of "trying to figure this mess of a world out"

The forum's can be a micro reflection (at times) of the chaotic world we all live within, We are all susceptible to Human behaviour that is not so lovely, but thats how it is. The lesson to understand is we are all connected, good bad and otherwise.

Regards

Ross

[buffski]

I agree Jendayi...there is a lot of hurt still out there and some folks need to let those feelings out, even if at times it would appear harsh.
The recent bannings have fuelled that hurt, and i sincerely hope that this was not done by design. To stir up the wounds of division by delineating between those that 'understand' and those that dont will never be a stance of a peacemaker. To then raise the question of 'integrity' almost appears to be a subliminal message that here it resides, there it does not.

It remains for those of us who are members of both forums to highlight that we are indeed one community and that no matter what the hurt, we are greater than the division that is created by bannings and a runaway debate on who holds the keys to integrity.

I might suggest that certain posts (ad hominem attacks) such as 'Dick and gas-Celine' should be removed as to ensure the 'treasured integrity' here. Not nice, and not clever.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v7LlS5Ajs4

[loveandgratitude]

Forgiveness and the Freedom of Letting go
Maybe we all need a good dose of this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VMZb8wLY&feature=related

[Tahi]

Is this a tale of Two Forums... starting to wonder??

[Donna O]

Whilst I can agree that the recent bannings may make one nervous to offer alternative points of views we must remember that we are talking about integrity here and try to get the right perspective.

I do visit ‘that’ forum, not as a spy, but simply as I would any other forum that has been brought to my attention. There are people at nexus that I have resonated with and those that I haven’t so much. Regardless of my dealings with them, which has been mainly to read their musings, I have seen in distaste some of the comments and threads that have ‘carried on’ over there,

Now, there are ways to disagree with a person’s values and actions without resorting to downright slander and attack and this I have seen with my own eyes. Though we should be careful about presuming we understand someone’s views by their use of the thanks button, you wouldn’t have caught me anywhere near that button on certain occasions, enough said!

Holding integrity does not include applauding verbal abuse, bullying and slander. That kind of behavior has been the curse of the human being since time began and we need to learn how to rise above this.

I may not always entirely agree with the goings on here at Avalon, but the one thing I admire is the commitment to keeping the forum free of bullies and bad-mouthers. I have lost count of the number of posts I have read where people have been surprised at the generous reception they have got here after having terrible experiences at other forums. Now that is something to be proud of and long may it continue. A safe place for those who hold onto their integrity ;)

[Martin]

Oh boy, hearing the word integrity so much over the last couple of days. Does anyone really knows what it is supposed to mean anyway? *g* I just hope that the atmosphere here won't be tainted by all the events recently any longer no more. I am recently joined up at the nexus forum myself. Not yet activated the account, but I will drop by in the next days. I have chosen the same name as here and for now that is enough integrity for me.


MfG

Martin

[Inelia]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

[Donna O]

Oh boy, hearing the word integrity so much over the last couple of days. Does anyone really knows what it is supposed to mean anyway? *g* I just hope that the atmosphere here won't be tainted by all the events recently any longer no more. I am recently joined up at the nexus forum myself. Not yet activated the account, but I will drop by in the next days. I have chosen the same name as here and for now that is enough integrity for me.


MfG

Martin

Lol, you’re on a thread called ‘Integrity’. What did you expect, a discussion about French fries ;)

Integrity is just a word, it is the values it connotes we are trying to discuss. Sometimes one word is just not enough.

Peace

[Lord Sidious]

--------

Listen up, Folks: here is an example of where I draw the line.

Céline wrote here:

http://nexus.2012info.ca/forum/showthread.php?1371-Bill-Ryan-From-Interviewer-to-Guru&p=10203&viewfull=1#post10203


dont come to canada, bill and inelia. I promise you both that I will expose you as frauds if you attempt to peddle your snake oil here...

The Avalon members (aroundthetable, goldenyears and modwiz) who thanked that post revealed their real views. That's fine, of course - but they also communicated clearly that Avalon is not an appropriate community for them to be members. If someone just doesn't understand that, there's not a lot more I can do to explain.

Bill, don't be disingenuous, you are quoting part of a post.
How do you know they agreed with the post in its entirety?
Or if in part? And if in part, which part?
Things are starting to get into the surreal now.
It is almost like the twilight zone.
I would have to think it is carrot time again, except I am not sure who to carrot first.
hi m'lord... i would like a carrot... just to get me back on my feet again...

You of all people would be welcome to some if I had any left.
But to eat, not up your nostrologies.
Be well brother.


How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

I am glad you asked.
To me, it means standing for what I believe is right and/or defending those who haven't done anything wrong and that is regardless of who attacks you.
My colours don't run. I stand and don't back down or back off.
And that isn't internet talk, you can take that to the bank.

[mariposafe]

Bloody hell, I come back after a day to a thread which looked as though it would be really interesting and have just had to wade thorough all this bickering !!!!!!!
Wake up people ! If it's like this when we're only connected by bits of wire and plastic, imagine what it would be like in a flesh and blood community ! And maybe that's something we can learn from ...... ? Anyone who believes that a "spiritual" community is all fluffy bunnies and candles needs to get their head from out of their arse ! Conflict and disagreement are a part and parcel of our current dualistic, physical reality. I don't like it either, but tough sh1t. A couple of brief observations :
- Plenty of people have clearly expressed a meaning of integrity, why not get back to discussing that, rather than questioning anybody elses (integrity, that is) ?
- Integrity and "free speech" are not necessarily the same thing.
- And finally, an apt little gem of my own creation ........

"Wisdom is knowing when to tell someone to **** off" :p

Sweet dreams, Philip

[Isostool]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?


------

<snip>With integrity, there is no two-facedness, no camouflaged position, no variance of view depending on the circumstances or who one is with.

Or what forum one posts on.

The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

<snip>Clearly their membership was a mistake - on our part.

<snip>I do welcome all views and perspectives.

The thread's first post was not just about the subject of integrity, it was about members getting banned and Bill's perception on that, on why he had done so or would do so.

It wasn't as though this thread was bastardised by members [Icecold made reference to an act of sodomy - that does not mean all who wished to speak about banned members would be so rough with our suggestions] looking to change its subject - the subject was already a part of it.

And it is an integral part of it in relation to Avalon and what is occurring here right now, and it is of some concern for people. It was not an act of hijack, it is something people wanted to discuss and it is about the subject matter of integrity.

[DoubleHelix]

C'mon guys this has been done to death.. I think we're treading over old ground here!

Have we established what Integrity means?
Do we understand what will and what will not be tolerated at Avalon?

I think this has been a learning curve for everyone involved, I foresee a bright and positive future for the community of Avalon !

Now could I make a request to the Mod team in having this thread closed.

Thanks

-DH.

[SEAM]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

Thanks Inelia... it went from Integrity to Entitlement...
which is a whole 'nother big can a worms...

[Dennis Leahy]

There was a valid point brought up by Ross, and at least one other instance that I saw, where a couple of ad hominem attacks showed up in this thread that were not dealt with quickly. I'll offer a personal apology for not catching these quickly, and now we have replies (some reasoned and wise, some not so wise) to those being re-quoted back. Being late to clean these up causes both the problem that they were left there in the first place and it is one of the things mods are asked to contain, and the problem that the replies quoting the ad hominem attacks can look like Swiss cheese after surgically removing chunks of words. But, I'm going to try to do my best anyway.

So, I'll close this thread for a few minutes while I do that task.

Thanks,

Dennis

{edit} Ross' observation was in a different thread.

I did remove one small exchange by a couple of members that was ad hominem - and tangential to the thread as well.

I had read all of this thread before, and a quick scan back over the posts shows me that it would be impossible to remove the names (forum pseudonym 'handles') that have been brought up numerous times, of people recently retired from Avalon - some bringing up these names in incredulity, some in defense, some gobsmacked at what was written elsewhere. Though this stuff is a tangent to Bill's original post about Integrity, in my opinion it was nonetheless directly tangential and does not appear to me wholly intended to segue away from the topic of "Integrity." However, I believe that dead horse has been beaten sufficiently.

I would hope, at this point, that if anyone really wants to keep this thread going, that they will regroup, and go back to the original topic of Integrity as a general concept and not about individuals recently departed.

Thanks,

Dennis

[3optic]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

Hi Inelia. You make a good point. Definitions are worth exploring here. Very simply I've always felt that living with integrity means that one keeps their word. For me this is often one of the principles that alerts me to when things may be out of balance. Bill expanded on this defenition quite well.


The best definition of integrity I ever heard is when one's beliefs, actions and statements are all in alignment.

However discussing who has been banned is actually on topic. Bill goes on to say,


The criterion we use with all members, no matter how longstanding, is that if we had known [ --- insert something new that emerges about this person here --- ] when we'd welcomed them in the first place, we would not have accepted their application, then we may ask them to leave.

Generally rules are rules and don't leave much room for discussion. I don't have a problem with this in a private forum so there isn't much to discuss there. I have at times expressed dismay at seeing members leave as I enjoyed their contributions but this has been well covered by many. If I were asked to leave I might be disappointed but life does go on and (forgive the triteness :P) as Alexander Graham Bell said, “When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”

[edina]

I really like this quote 3 otpic, thanks for sharing it, this perspective can be very healing....

“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.” by Alexander Graham Bell

[Chicodoodoo]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

The multiple bannings that have occurred recently have the appearance of being unjustified and are dividing the Avalon community. This not only affects the integrity of the Avalon community, but also calls into question the integrity of the forces behind those bannings.


At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

This thread has not been hijacked or bastardized, in my opinion. It is right on target, still talking about integrity, but there may be interested parties that don't want this subject explored as it may incriminate their integrity.


I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

That is indeed what this discussion has been about. Integrity does not imply that justice has been done or fairness has been achieved. What we have witnessed here at Avalon is this very phenomenon -- integrity leading to injustice. It is an open wound that needs care and proper healing if we hope to avoid a festering infection.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

It may sound kind of obvious and cliche, but years ago someone changed my life by simply saying, "When you walk and talk the truth of your life, you will find that it aligns itself in harmony." This has been an ongoing practice for me ever since. I have many reasons to deceive myself or act in a way that misaligns with my turth. Conflict avoidance or simple lack of courage for example. This is part of what integrity means to me.

I think there are two discussions happening here. I don't know for sure, but I think Bill was trying to start a discussion about integirty which happened to exist within the greater context of the recent bannngs. If he wanted it to be specifically about the bannings, then he would have been more direct. Hell, I thought he was referring to something with Kerry when I read it.

Then some people wanted the thread to be about the details of those specific bannings and absolutely will not let go until they feel satisfied that everything was fair and justified or, barring that, Bill apologizes and reinstates everyone.

I am proposing that this thread be locked and two new ones created. One to discuss integrity. And another for the torch and pitchfork crowd. (no disrespect, really. That's just what I see in my mind. Oh c'mon, it's funny!)

[Flash]

Icecold, allow me to hijack your writing on one of the other threads, on topics unrelated to this one. It can help to explain so much in my opinion.

Please bare with me with this long post, there is a logic throughout that has to be explained.

For those that love Charles, I am in for a real blasting here, so please, replace Charles by the 33, in case he was truly genuine as you may believe. It is the principles that matter here, not the persons. The following is, in my view, for the welfare of us all.

It goes as follows:


Re: Chemtrail pilot talks
From Icecold:
What happened to the thread??????

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.

As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.

Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.


Now a little history:

1. Charles/33 come in somewhere last August or even prior in Bill’s life. He/they presented himself/themselves as the destructor of Avalon, and of Bill in his physical body – following Kerry, Bill still has death threats. The destructor, Charles, has a change of heart – having had his life spared thanks to Bill - and won’t do the job given to him.

This could (speculation here) only means he won’t kill him, because he owes him that much. Therefore, he and/or they 33, found a mean of doing the job while not having to make Bill disappear, by killing Avalon.

In the mind of paid “problem solvers” this is a great gift and a real change of heart, what Charles did. I do thank Charles for sparing Bill’s life.

2. Now, the best way to destroy something is through looking at its prey, its behaviour, habits, weaknesses and strengths, be it in commercial terms between competitors, in hunter’s terms during hunting season, or in a killer’s/33/destructors terms.

So, Avalon’ structure is analysed, Bill’s behaviour is analysed, and every important member of Avalon is analysed – through regular means, simple behavioural and structural studies (barely speculative, this is how it is done on a regular basis in ordinary businesses and more in depth by the army during wartime).

Other means – unknown to normal folks - may have been used to see the future potential of members and their impact on Avalon (speculation here).

Then measures are taken. And this with the outmost grace and pleasantness if it was coming from Charles. If you master the information and know how, why would you be unpleasant?

3. The measure taken will always start with the easiest, namely structures and behaviours. Here Icecold article comes in handy

]“people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs”.

Furthermore, what will often be considered is in fact biased:


]“gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs” .

You can be absolutely sure about this. This is people’s basic behaviours. This is why change is so hard to achieve in families, organisations, societies or forums. As Carmody just mentioned in another thread, we are pre-wired to see in certain ways, to “lie to ourselves” for faster brain processing.

Now, was there any more emotionally significant issues for Bill and Richard than Avalon existence – which, standing alone, is quite an emotional issue. The answer is yes: Bill’s life, consciously or not, and Richard’s wife, consciously or not.

I explain: Bill has been threatened covertly or overtly for a while (see Kerry’s comments). Anybody in his place would feel edgy. This may cloud one’s reactions and behaviours.

On the other hand, the most interesting hitting point was Richard, he was holding the day to day aspects of the forum together. Get at him and be efficient, to make sure he holds a constant grudge, that will permeate even when the Avalon’s problem is resolved (meaning dead).

How do you do it? Here are some speculations, based of reading through the lines of Céline’s posts on Avalon: Through Richard’s weakest point, Céline. Be nice to Céline, make sure she feels like a potential saviour, an extraordinary women and hit when she is on the downside of manic disorder. She will pick on it.

Richard’s will feel edgy for the forum and for his wife at the same time (for losing her personally or through the illness), and he will make mistakes. Easy, just drive the guy crazy. Any other extra stress – which may have inadvertently been given by stressed out Bill or others, and there it is, mistakes in behaviours.

One of the main characteristic of manipulators is that they will end up having people do things that are entirely out of their natural make up. Ex: Vincent Lacroix in Quebec who stole 30 millions$ from pension funds- his accountant is now in jail and he still does not understands how come he let this fraud go on, this was out of character for him, but he rots in jail, while Lacroix is basically out.

Following Icecold article, this:


“explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence)”.

In behavioural science, you can absolutely count on this.

What are the expected behaviours/desires we can count on here precisely:

INTEGRITY for one (established expected belief system, positive in open relationship, but usable if one wants destruction) –
POLARISATION – BITCHING for the other (expected behaviour when grudge/beliefs blindness holds).

Once the first results show up and the strategy is well implemented, the manipulators can leave, human behaviour will take over, this becomes automatic, pre-wiring and grudge doing the job.

4. Why do I bring this point: In my idea, anything still polarized in this forum is the result of what went on previously.

When we continue, anyone of us, hammering this nail, we are pursuing the manipulation job already started by PTB and/or the 33 and/or Charles.

Furthermore, we can be assured that this will be tried again if the forum holds up. If we know how manipulation works, it will be easier to defeat.

When I deal with manipulators, one thing I do is to behave in unexpected ways. I behave and react in unexpected ways that are not in my basic temperament, in order to throw the manipulators off and have the time to recoup and strategize. This is difficult to do when one is basically straightforward and honest.

It took me literally 35 years to learn. Do I like it: NO. Do I have to do it? Usually not, I just leave. But I will do it if needed, while trying to hold love in my heart - these manipulators are only doing what they have learned, and it pays them well. And most manipulators are not aware of manipulating – not true for the trained ones.


5. Please, stop doing the manipulators jobs. Openly desiring integrity and transparency for example, in open relationships, is entirely fine and helpful. Doing the same in manipulative circumstances is naive and not helpful. IMHO.

Relaying suspicion, he said, she said, he said, and trashing anybody that have regular behaviour (sometimes without grandeur, but just human petiteness) in any way is doing the manipulator’s job, for him. How silly will we get?

6. This is why I was trying to mitigate what was said in some of my posts, and told some of you to rest. Rest, recoup and relaunch with open heart. Lets stop doing the destructive job started by manipulators and please move on to better areas of openness.

I really hope that Richard and Céline are reading this as well because I am sure they are fundamentally of good hearts, as Bill is as well, and that these behaviours could be stopped. Mourning is over, destruction happened, now lets move on. I also hope Bill reads it.

7. Lets go back to open, honest and working relationships and really define what is

INTEGRITY

for each one of us, and for us all.

Thanks to all for your patience at reading this long post, hopefully it will be helpful. Love to all.

Flash

[SKAWF]

How did a thread about the exploration of integrity become about who was or wasn't banned at Avalon?

At what point was the thread hijacked and bastardised? And by whom? Very telling.

I say lets get back to topic: Instead of attacking one person's view of what is integrity, or attack the fact that some of us have decided to explore this question, why not explore what it means to you?

i think what happened was, some people from here were saying things about bill and others, on another site.
i think bill and others found out about it.
i think a decision was made to drop a few members,
and the whole thing was dressed up to look like a thread about integrity.
to make it more palatable for everyone.
otherwise we are left with a massive coincidence,
a thread about integrity was started at the same time as people were being banned for a lack of it, and the two events are in no way are related.

it wasnt hijacked or bastardised, it was started by bill in relation to verbal attacks against him.

may i ask why you think it was hijacked?, and who was responsible?,
and also, may i ask what you think is 'very telling'?

or were we supposed to have an intellectual debate about integrity, while other members were being booted out?
with no one saying anything about it. (integrity?)

we all know why this thread was born.

steve

[Inelia]

Well steve, you are persistent, that's for sure.

It's funny how we read things through our own filters.

Can I ask you, what's with the hostility toward Bill?

[K626]

Well steve, you are persistent, that's for sure.

It's funny how we read things through our own filters.

Can I ask you, what's with the hostility toward Bill?

Little bit patronising sweetie? ;)

K

[viking]

Dear Bill

Please stand back for a week and take a deep breath, jump out of the cocoon, remove yourself from all the drama and take in where you are, what you are doing and why.

Please do not come back with an answer until you have collected all your thoughts.

We are all here for one reason and one reason only...remember what you started with Kerry all those years ago...and why! To see seek the 'truth' and pass it on...

Don't get engulfed with all the politics of the 'merry go round'...look around you and ask how other 'truth seekers' would react to all this! ... David Icke is a supreme example...and many more...you know I have followed him from day one...(as I have with both you and Kerry)when he was ridiculed on the Wogan show, and he just had a handful of folk attending to his talks/seminars ... he just kept chipping away...remained on track and hardly ever steered away from his mission. Look at him now.

The dark ones have many tricks up their sleeves and will try all they can to divert you from your 'mission' ...don't lose track...stop trying to find out what he or she said and whos back stabbing who and why whats what and where!! do what you came here to do... TO PASS ON TRUTH AND WAKE EM UP.

You are a great interviewer...in fact I would put you on par with Parky!!!

Just bloody well do what you came here to do...and stop piss arsing around with trivialities!!!!

And Inelia if you really do care for Bill ... support this message and get it sorted...

viking

[SKAWF]

Well steve, you are persistent, that's for sure.

It's funny how we read things through our own filters.

Can I ask you, what's with the hostility toward Bill?

i'm not hostile to bill in any way.
in spite of everything thats happened over the last couple of months,
i believe in what he's trying to do.
i was watching an interview only this morning,
and i felt bad for the crap thats been thrown at him in recent times.
and yet he's still there standing up, putting one foot in front of the other.
i respect that.
sometimes the hardest thing in the world to do,
is to get back up after you've been knocked down.

my response wasnt in any way hostile either.
i assure you the only thing i was feeling, was flabbergasted,
that you thought the thread was hijacked.

interesting what you say about filters.

i'm suprised you actually posted what you did. flabbergasted you might say.
there cant be many people who have read this thread, and not realised what it was about.
even bill has posted to confirm this.
which is why i had to respond to YOUR post.

i'll say again, i believe in what bill stands for.
i have no hostility against him at all.
your assumptions about me are inncorrect.

without wishing to appear hostile,
may i have your answers to the questions i asked you.

cheers

steve

[Inelia]

steve, Thank you for the clarification, much appreciated.

Answer to your question: very telling in how the person/s who have been working very hard to pollute/destroy Avalon can take a thread about a very high vibrational level topic and corrupt it onto low level drama.

Viking, Bill is very much on his mission, which is on track and going strong :) what he posts in Avalon is by no means the bulk of his work. Thank you for your passion and concern. Things are moving very quickly and very nicely!

[Jendayi]

You of all people would be welcome to some if I had any left.
But to eat, not up your nostrologies.
Be well brother.

thank you..... for a dark lord you're a pretty nice guy! :tea:
ah... so you planned on going for the nostrels ey? well, that's always better than the other place you could shove them, since you did not intend to share them for nutritional purposes..
and here i was thinking you would poke us in the side with your carrots..
we must have been a very naughty bunch here indeed for you to have run out of carrots already!
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/Kaminoan%20cloners%20on%20Kaminohttp://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/frutas/www.MessenTools.com-Frutas-carrot1.gifhttp://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/frutas/www.MessenTools.com-Frutas-carrot1.gifhttp://www.messentools.com/images/emoticones/frutas/www.MessenTools.com-Frutas-carrot1.gif

maybe you should start cloning them.. perhaps ask the Kaminoan cloners on Kamino for some assistance? i hear they are quite good at what they do...
hey.. if they're not meant to be eaten but are used for correctional purposes only... why not?
i don't believe you would compromise your integrity if you did.. more carrots please..
they really help... better to be smacked with some slapstick than a real stick ey..
Sid, bless you for being here.. you keep us focused..

[Fred Steeves]

I was just about to add these comments to the Bill and Inelia in Florida thread, but at the last second it occured to me that it was more appropriate to be posted here, so here goes:


It was a priviledge to meet up with Bill, Inelia and Pharaoh today. The good vibes and the powerful, intelligent, insightful conversation made it an afternoon I will not soon forget. It just now got me to thinking that if more of us here could have the opportunity to meet up, face to face, eye to eye, and simply share some time together in person, we would very soon realize that there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us. It would render the need for threads like this and others of the like obsolete.

This is something very valueable I learned today.


Cheers,
Fred S.

[DeDukshyn]

...It's funny how we read things through our own filters....


Something I observed in myself a few years back ... I took this weird course called the "Landmark Forum" And it exposed what these filters were, how and why WE create them for ourselves, and how to clear them to see a full view as opposed to the view we WANT to see to justify our excuses for not having "integrity". After that I have the confidence to say that all ye lie to yourselves .... as I lie to myself to justify my own actions. It's part of the human condition and the frst step is to recognize it ... After that it's hard not view everything objectively, we are bigger than we think, and the bigger view serves us well.

Part of havinging integrity is to know that you have nothing to "convince" people of, integrity is an agreement with self and has NOTHING to do with what is external to yourself.

[DeDukshyn]

I was just about to add these comments to the Bill and Inelia in Florida thread, but at the last second it occured to me that it was more appropriate to be posted here, so here goes:


It was a priviledge to meet up with Bill, Inelia and Pharaoh today. The good vibes and the powerful, intelligent, insightful conversation made it an afternoon I will not soon forget. It just now got me to thinking that if more of us here could have the opportunity to meet up, face to face, eye to eye, and simply share some time together in person, we would very soon realize that there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us. It would render the need for threads like this and others of the like obsolete.

This is something very valueable I learned today.


Cheers,
Fred S.

Double thanks ... wish I could have been there ... ;-)

[Fred Steeves]

... wish I could have been there ... ;-)


ME TOO!

Cheers,
Fred S.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

[DeDukshyn]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

Thank you for pointing out the obvious; yet again ... ;-) Here's a rare, yet public thanks to Charles from me, I see far more than what would be expected ... and he knows that ;-)

[Rocky_Shorz]

well if it was obvious to everyone, I wouldn't have had to say a thing... ;)

Charles is still a part of us...


and ps... when you went back to add the Charles note, I was already typing mine...

[Flash]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

I sincerely wish we did, I sincerely wish Charles is not part of them any longer but part of us. However, what I see is:

1. Egos and stress has been playing and played with quite a lot on this forum and this is the mark of PTB as well as the mark of plain human behavior.
2. Fight has been going on where we should get in agreement amongst willfull people. Re: the history of this planet as well.
3. From what I see here, if they could not get the forum, they must think that the job has to be re-thought and done once and for all.
4. If we destroyed them, from what is going on in the world presently, the job is not finished yet. And for this, we need to tighten up together, not spread gossips but be forgiving and helpful.
5. The idea of talking about integrity was great. Anything on values is great. If we all manage to have the same definition, it could be easy to manage the boat that is Avalon.
IMHO of course.

[greybeard]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?


Yes Rocky assuming you are right

The group consisted of people who at least thought they had the power to control the fate of the world.

So now they are very powerful individual families.
They do not give up power and control its in their genes.
Thats what they call integrity.
Looking after the world their way.
ie population reduction.
All that has possibly happened, is that the power base has individualized and is still operating full force.

Thats just my thoughts on it -- not saying its true.

Regards Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

well many are still confused, the ones still part of the 33 aren't attacking us which is who Charles is working with...

nope these are the elites that broke away that are trying to disrupt us...

and each time they do, I lay out more of what's on their mind...

[Rocky_Shorz]

you see Charles agreed not to say anything about many subjects, but being here at Avalon surrounded by the gifted, words aren't necessary.

they have money, we have survival instincts kicking in with gifts they only dream of...

What many don't understand is, we have Charles group of the 33 working with us, everything going on in the world is completely disrupting the elites plans...


look what happened to the Republicans/Tea Party that were moving forward under mind control just to realize they just destroyed their chance of being re-elected into power...

[Flash]

you see Charles agreed not to say anything about many subjects, but being here at Avalon surrounded by the gifted, words aren't necessary.

they have money, we have survival instincts kicking in with gifts they only dream of...

What many don't understand is, we have Charles group of the 33 working with us, everything going on in the world is completely disrupting the elites plans...


look what happened to the Republicans/Tea Party that were moving forward under mind control just to realize they just destroyed their chance of being re-elected into power...

Come on, the Avalon's "gifted" cannot even agree on values and a simple definition on values. I have seen better than that in "PTB corporations" truly, I am actually saying what I truly saw with my own eyes.

And for our survivor instincts, it must have been fuzzy because the 33 took over for 17,000 years no! They must be better than us at something, may be even at survival.

However where you may hit are the gifts they may only dream of. These are most probably spiritual in nature.

They are activated through heart thinking and forgiveness to oneself first, than to others. Hence see my previous posts on this thread for step one.

I am not here targetting you personnally Rocky Shorz, I am writing this for the whole of Avalon members.

[SKAWF]

with regards to the destruction of the 33,

i think of it like a meteor heading for earth.
it may be broken up, but now we have a few separate chunks heading for us.
each one capable of doing massive damage.

we are not safe just yet.
the group was balanced with purists/non purists
now though they are separate entities,
and that brings with it, a whole set of unknowns and unpredictabilities.

steve

[Rocky_Shorz]

the Avalon gifted didn't even realize there was a disagreement going on... ;)

remember the 33 aren't PTB...

PTB are a bunch of Bankers and Lawyers who's only God is money a few of the 33 that broke off are associated with them, they are the ones attacking us...

[DeDukshyn]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?


Yes Rocky assuming you are right

The group consisted of people who at least thought they had the power to control the fate of the world.

So now they are very powerful individual families.
They do not give up power and control its in their genes.
Thats what they call integrity.
Looking after the world their way.
ie population reduction.
All that has possibly happened, is that the power base has individualized and is still operating full force.

Thats just my thoughts on it -- not saying its true.

Regards Chris


Chris, I will say that is 100% true from their perspective ... and that mine is a little bit different ;-) I heard this of this tactic once ... divide .. and .. something ....

[Flash]

with regards to the destruction of the 33,

i think of it like a meteor heading for earth.
it may be broken up, but now we have a few separate chunks heading for us.
each one capable of doing massive damage.

we are not safe just yet.
the group was balanced with purists/non purists
now though they are separate entities,
and that brings with it, a whole set of unknowns and unpredictabilities.

steve

my thank to you with the button does no show, i don't know why. Therefore here it is.

[DeDukshyn]

with regards to the destruction of the 33,

i think of it like a meteor heading for earth.
it may be broken up, but now we have a few separate chunks heading for us.
each one capable of doing massive damage.

we are not safe just yet.
the group was balanced with purists/non purists
now though they are separate entities,
and that brings with it, a whole set of unknowns and unpredictabilities.

steve

my thank to you with the button does no show, i don't know why. Therefore here it is.

That was weird ..... My sentiments exactly ...

==update== Dang, I'll have to clarify, we are far better off now - divide and conquer didn't become a tactic for nothing ...

[Rocky_Shorz]

i think of it like a meteor heading for earth. it may be broken up, but now we have a few separate chunks heading for us. each one capable of doing massive damage.



but now remember the gifts you are surrounded by...

taking Cat 5 Hurricane that rolls into shore as gentle rain...

massive earthquakes meant to kill 5.5 billion people, that roll in 3-4 Magnitude under plans...

Planet X... vaporized...


now tell me, what will money buy?

[Chicodoodoo]

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

We have only one person's word on this (Charles), and that person has not exactly been a fountain of truth. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence to support this assumption either, as far as I know. Rather than believe it is true or not, we should believe that we don't really know.

And if the "lol" is an indication that your statement is just a joke, it would appear that it didn't translate too well, and many people missed it. Personally, I think you were being sarcastic, and it was a joke. Sometimes I even wonder if this entire existence is a joke, and I'm just not getting it.

[sandy]

Dear Inelia,

May I ask if you read Flashes excellent article on Manipulators?

[DeDukshyn]

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

We have only one person's word on this (Charles), and that person has not exactly been a fountain of truth. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence to support this assumption either, as far as I know.

I believe Inelia also stated that they are now broken up. My intuition also tells me we have a vantage point if we act quickly. Charles may have made certain indications for us to fill in the blanks but blatant lies ... I haven't been able to find any that "we" haven't created for him as a result of him feeding us "bits" ... can you supply some? PM if you feel it's better there than on the Integrity thread, but it may be a worthy discussion to have.

[Arpheus]

I was just about to add these comments to the Bill and Inelia in Florida thread, but at the last second it occurred to me that it was more appropriate to be posted here, so here goes:


It was a privilege to meet up with Bill, Inelia and Pharaoh today. The good vibes and the powerful, intelligent, insightful conversation made it an afternoon I will not soon forget. It just now got me to thinking that if more of us here could have the opportunity to meet up, face to face, eye to eye, and simply share some time together in person, we would very soon realize that there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us. It would render the need for threads like this and others of the like obsolete.

This is something very valuable I learned today.

Cheers,
Fred S.
More then once i stated that i was game to have a get together for the Avalonians of new england i thought it would be awesome to meet some face to face and exchange a nice conversation about some of the many topics we discuss in here but as usual it fell on deaf ears,oh well at least i tried tho LOL.

[Rocky_Shorz]

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

We have only one person's word on this (Charles), and that person has not exactly been a fountain of truth. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence to support this assumption either, as far as I know. Rather than believe it is true or not, we should believe that we don't really know.

And if the "lol" is an indication that your statement is just a joke, it would appear that it didn't translate too well, and many people missed it. Personally, I think you were being sarcastic, and it was a joke. Sometimes I even wonder if this entire existence is a joke, and I'm just not getting it.


I understand you can't look into heads, but at least listen to those of us that can...

I solved missing children cases by looking into monsters heads...

Santa has nothing on me when it comes to seeing whose been naughty and whose been nice...

Charles came to us able to share just a few pieces of info, to most it meant nothing, but to me answered questions as old as time...

some times it only takes a trigger to unlock hidden knowledge, that's what he did for many of us

[DeDukshyn]

... Sometimes I even wonder if this entire existence is a joke, and I'm just not getting it.

Chicodoodoo, my friend, this entire existence is more of "role playing" than it is of a "joke", but you are on the right track IMHO. Seriousness, in my opinion is a small tool we have to be able to use, but our base "tool" is play!! If you think of all this as how kids would play a game it becomes so much more rewarding. seriousness is burdensome ..... ;-) Blessings. And BTW if I had to pick a crew - you'd be right there with me too. Why? You question, everything, that is a talent my friend ..;)

[SKAWF]

hi chico,

can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

steve


PS i often thought that life was a sick joke!!

[andywight]

I went to the cemetery yesterday to lay some flowers on a grave. As I was
standing there I noticed 4 grave diggers walking about with a coffin... 3
hours later and they're still walking about with it...
I thought to myself, these buggers have lost the plot!!

[perfectresonance]

What prompted you ? Is everything OK? Did you find a [B]wolf in a sheep costume recently?


There are still some here, I note. Some not even bothering with a costume!

Still - the process of getting the rabid double dealers out of here is the best news I have had today; the reason I've come over to check on progress.

The game is never boring, but some of them are quite an energy drain.

I hope the cull isn't complete. When it is, I'll be more than happy to return.

All my best wishes, Bill
P

[Rocky_Shorz]

I believe Inelia also stated that they are now broken up. My intuition also tells me we have a vantage point if we act quickly. Charles may have made certain indications for us to fill in the blanks but blatant lies ... I haven't been able to find any that "we" haven't created for him as a result of him feeding us "bits" ... can you supply some? PM if you feel it's better there than on the Integrity thread, but it may be a worthy discussion to have.

and as far as Integrity, I know Bill didn't want this thread to turn into a discussion on Charles, but the truth is the unanswered questions are what is still bothering many of our members.

I "know" Charles and I like him, he isn't the monster many are thinking...

he actually took my advise about stepping out of Avalon for his health, the stress he was going through was hurting him...

I'm glad Bill brought him to us, but wish the talk of choosing 18 never happened...

Avalon comes as a package deal, all for one and one for all...

[DeDukshyn]

Flash...

the 33 didn't destroy Avalon, we destroyed them... lol

don't any of you realize why a group that had been together for 17000 years suddenly broke up after Charles met and joined Bill?

I sincerely wish we did, I sincerely wish Charles is not part of them any longer but part of us. However, what I see is:

1. Egos and stress has been playing and played with quite a lot on this forum and this is the mark of PTB as well as the mark of plain human behavior.
2. Fight has been going on where we should get in agreement amongst willfull people. Re: the history of this planet as well.
3. From what I see here, if they could not get the forum, they must think that the job has to be re-thought and done once and for all.
4. If we destroyed them, from what is going on in the world presently, the job is not finished yet. And for this, we need to tighten up together, not spread gossips but be forgiving and helpful.
5. The idea of talking about integrity was great. Anything on values is great. If we all manage to have the same definition, it could be easy to manage the boat that is Avalon.
IMHO of course.

Atticus, got the ball rolling on 1-4, 1 was to seperate the chaff, number 5 was Bill's. Thanks Guys; As for 2, I see that as secondary --- not that important, but interesting nonetheless. Dang, maybe my cup is just too "half full" ... I better add some pessimism or narrow my view .... or, not. ;-) no dis on you Flash at all, just using your post to make my point. ;)

[Inelia]

hi chico,

can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

steve


PS i often thought that life was a sick joke!!

A lie I know about personally, when Charles called me on Skype in January, he told me that he and Bill were putting together a team. When I asked Bill about this (a few minutes later), Bill told me he knew NOTHING ABOUT IT. That he was not putting together a team, that it was something he had not been consulted or talked about by Charles and that it had nothing to do with him (Bill).

There's a one whopper for you ;)

[Rocky_Shorz]

Gmta... ;)

[Kimberley]

Integrity to me is not one of my favorite words... I think it is a word that is over used and miss understood.. I am just going to add my 2 cents...

Claim your power in each moment... be love NOW... even though we are one we are unique... please, please, claim your uniqueness. Be in your knowingness of your truth in every moment. Follow YOUR heart!!! Stand your ground, your knowing in every moment!

I love me and I love you!!!
XOXOXOXYou ARE love!!!

[loveandgratitude]

FLASH

Dear Flash, Thank you so much.

I read all your posts - all I can say is BLOODY BRILLANT HOLMES. That is exactly what is happening. I was going down this road of thought but without all the information. You have put (nearly) all the pieces of the puzzle together. I personally ask you at this time to lead this group out of the bog and onto higher ground for a group healing. To stay in the bog, we can only sink deeper in the mud.

I felt there were a couple of agent provoctaurs in action here but could not put the story together. You have done a brillant analogy of the situation. Thank you for your perspective it made bells ring.

[DeDukshyn]

hi chico,

can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

steve


PS i often thought that life was a sick joke!!

A lie I know about personally, when Charles called me on Skype in January, he told me that he and Bill were putting together a team. When I asked Bill about this (a few minutes later), Bill told me he knew NOTHING ABOUT IT. That he was not putting together a team, that it was something he had not been consulted or talked about by Charles and that it had nothing to do with him (Bill).

There's a one whopper for you ;)

Not quite a "whopper" IMHO, but I thank you muchly for sharing that! Atticus has been known to make preconceived assumptions ... food for thought, thanks! Because I have scoured the threads and I can't think or recall of any blatant lies in his posts, that he couldn't argue a misrepresentation. Whatever his alignment, he does have a few talents.

[Inelia]

Dear Inelia,

May I ask if you read Flashes excellent article on Manipulators?

No, I haven't. Can you post a link?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Integrity to me is not one of my favorite words... I think it is a word that is over used and miss understood.. I am just going to add my 2 cents...

Claim your power in each moment... be love NOW... even though we are one we are unique... please, please, claim your uniqueness. Be in your knowingness of your truth in every moment. Follow YOUR heart!!! Stand your ground, your knowing in every moment!

I love me and I love you!!!
XOXOXOXYou ARE love!!!

Thank you for this post :)

[truth4me]

Spirituality is the key right now. It's not that we ,spiritual beings, are "better" then those who aren't spiritual it's just that we look at things different. I interveiwed for a job awhile back and the person who interveiwed me couldn't understand why I didn't want to "move up in the world". I just told her " the world wasn't important to me but staying true to myself was". Spiritual vibes are real. The BIG SWITCH is on the way and sooner then we think.....

[SKAWF]

hi chico,

can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

steve




PS i often thought that life was a sick joke!!

A lie I know about personally, when Charles called me on Skype in January, he told me that he and Bill were putting together a team. When I asked Bill about this (a few minutes later), Bill told me he knew NOTHING ABOUT IT. That he was not putting together a team, that it was something he had not been consulted or talked about by Charles and that it had nothing to do with him (Bill).

There's a one whopper for you ;)

would that be the 18?

its going to be difficult to respond without accusations of hostility flying around....

bill did say, that he was letting things play out naturally,
charles had freedom in this place, without any interference...
when you look at what charles said he was going to do,
and compare that with the things he has actually done,
you'll find that he stuck to his word.
ive said before,
he walks a very thin line, but he doesnt waver.

maybe when he said about creating a group (the 18)
he thought the bills support would naturally follow.
as for the creation of the group itself,
its would be difficult bordering on impossible to accuse him of lying about it,
because we all saw him try to do it.
numerous threads on the topic, and counter threads by those who dissagreed with him.

he's pretty much stuck to his word, and continues to do so.

if he was really about destroying this forum, he could have walked away a while ago.
yet he's still around building his website.....

steve

[Chicodoodoo]

there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us.

This is exactly why this business of banning Avalon members should be a difficult and visible process, not an easy and invisible one. We need to learn to deal with each other, as hard as it may be, rather that just toss bothersome people by the wayside.

For a long time, I had a blogsite on MySpace. I had absolute power to ban anyone from the comment section of my blogs. I had a very few people call me the most derogatory names they could think of, curse me in the most colorful ways, and insult me with absolute vehemence. Never did I respond in kind. Never did I censor anything that was posted. Never did I ban one person. Why? Because the truth was there for everyone to see. And I believe most people will eventually see it, regardless of what that truth might be, if it is not censored!

When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored. Eventually the truth will pop up somewhere else, maybe in another forum, but not here. Avalon is supposedly all about uncovering the truth. Why can't we deal with it? Isn't that why we are here?

[sandy]

Dear Inelia,

May I ask if you read Flashes excellent article on Manipulators?

No, I haven't. Can you post a link?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Integrity to me is not one of my favorite words... I think it is a word that is over used and miss understood.. I am just going to add my 2 cents...

Claim your power in each moment... be love NOW... even though we are one we are unique... please, please, claim your uniqueness. Be in your knowingness of your truth in every moment. Follow YOUR heart!!! Stand your ground, your knowing in every moment!

I love me and I love you!!!
XOXOXOXYou ARE love!!!

Thank you for this post :)


Thank you for your response Inelia,

Sorry, I too computer illiterate and don't know how to do what you ask. However, I went back and looked and the Post is #414 if this helps.

[Inelia]

Icecold, allow me to hijack your writing on one of the other threads, on topics unrelated to this one. It can help to explain so much in my opinion.

Please bare with me with this long post, there is a logic throughout that has to be explained.

For those that love Charles, I am in for a real blasting here, so please, replace Charles by the 33, in case he was truly genuine as you may believe. It is the principles that matter here, not the persons. The following is, in my view, for the welfare of us all.

It goes as follows:


Re: Chemtrail pilot talks
From Icecold:
What happened to the thread??????

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.

As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.

Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.


Now a little history:

1. Charles/33 come in somewhere last August or even prior in Bill’s life. He/they presented himself/themselves as the destructor of Avalon, and of Bill in his physical body – following Kerry, Bill still has death threats. The destructor, Charles, has a change of heart – having had his life spared thanks to Bill - and won’t do the job given to him.

This could (speculation here) only means he won’t kill him, because he owes him that much. Therefore, he and/or they 33, found a mean of doing the job while not having to make Bill disappear, by killing Avalon.

In the mind of paid “problem solvers” this is a great gift and a real change of heart, what Charles did. I do thank Charles for sparing Bill’s life.

2. Now, the best way to destroy something is through looking at its prey, its behaviour, habits, weaknesses and strengths, be it in commercial terms between competitors, in hunter’s terms during hunting season, or in a killer’s/33/destructors terms.

So, Avalon’ structure is analysed, Bill’s behaviour is analysed, and every important member of Avalon is analysed – through regular means, simple behavioural and structural studies (barely speculative, this is how it is done on a regular basis in ordinary businesses and more in depth by the army during wartime).

Other means – unknown to normal folks - may have been used to see the future potential of members and their impact on Avalon (speculation here).

Then measures are taken. And this with the outmost grace and pleasantness if it was coming from Charles. If you master the information and know how, why would you be unpleasant?

3. The measure taken will always start with the easiest, namely structures and behaviours. Here Icecold article comes in handy

]“people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs”.

Furthermore, what will often be considered is in fact biased:


]“gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs” .

You can be absolutely sure about this. This is people’s basic behaviours. This is why change is so hard to achieve in families, organisations, societies or forums. As Carmody just mentioned in another thread, we are pre-wired to see in certain ways, to “lie to ourselves” for faster brain processing.

Now, was there any more emotionally significant issues for Bill and Richard than Avalon existence – which, standing alone, is quite an emotional issue. The answer is yes: Bill’s life, consciously or not, and Richard’s wife, consciously or not.

I explain: Bill has been threatened covertly or overtly for a while (see Kerry’s comments). Anybody in his place would feel edgy. This may cloud one’s reactions and behaviours.

On the other hand, the most interesting hitting point was Richard, he was holding the day to day aspects of the forum together. Get at him and be efficient, to make sure he holds a constant grudge, that will permeate even when the Avalon’s problem is resolved (meaning dead).

How do you do it? Here are some speculations, based of reading through the lines of Céline’s posts on Avalon: Through Richard’s weakest point, Céline. Be nice to Céline, make sure she feels like a potential saviour, an extraordinary women and hit when she is on the downside of manic disorder. She will pick on it.

Richard’s will feel edgy for the forum and for his wife at the same time (for losing her personally or through the illness), and he will make mistakes. Easy, just drive the guy crazy. Any other extra stress – which may have inadvertently been given by stressed out Bill or others, and there it is, mistakes in behaviours.

One of the main characteristic of manipulators is that they will end up having people do things that are entirely out of their natural make up. Ex: Vincent Lacroix in Quebec who stole 30 millions$ from pension funds- his accountant is now in jail and he still does not understands how come he let this fraud go on, this was out of character for him, but he rots in jail, while Lacroix is basically out.

Following Icecold article, this:


“explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence)”.

In behavioural science, you can absolutely count on this.

What are the expected behaviours/desires we can count on here precisely:

INTEGRITY for one (established expected belief system, positive in open relationship, but usable if one wants destruction) –
POLARISATION – BITCHING for the other (expected behaviour when grudge/beliefs blindness holds).

Once the first results show up and the strategy is well implemented, the manipulators can leave, human behaviour will take over, this becomes automatic, pre-wiring and grudge doing the job.

4. Why do I bring this point: In my idea, anything still polarized in this forum is the result of what went on previously.

When we continue, anyone of us, hammering this nail, we are pursuing the manipulation job already started by PTB and/or the 33 and/or Charles.

Furthermore, we can be assured that this will be tried again if the forum holds up. If we know how manipulation works, it will be easier to defeat.

When I deal with manipulators, one thing I do is to behave in unexpected ways. I behave and react in unexpected ways that are not in my basic temperament, in order to throw the manipulators off and have the time to recoup and strategize. This is difficult to do when one is basically straightforward and honest.

It took me literally 35 years to learn. Do I like it: NO. Do I have to do it? Usually not, I just leave. But I will do it if needed, while trying to hold love in my heart - these manipulators are only doing what they have learned, and it pays them well. And most manipulators are not aware of manipulating – not true for the trained ones.


5. Please, stop doing the manipulators jobs. Openly desiring integrity and transparency for example, in open relationships, is entirely fine and helpful. Doing the same in manipulative circumstances is naive and not helpful. IMHO.

Relaying suspicion, he said, she said, he said, and trashing anybody that have regular behaviour (sometimes without grandeur, but just human petiteness) in any way is doing the manipulator’s job, for him. How silly will we get?

6. This is why I was trying to mitigate what was said in some of my posts, and told some of you to rest. Rest, recoup and relaunch with open heart. Lets stop doing the destructive job started by manipulators and please move on to better areas of openness.

I really hope that Richard and Céline are reading this as well because I am sure they are fundamentally of good hearts, as Bill is as well, and that these behaviours could be stopped. Mourning is over, destruction happened, now lets move on. I also hope Bill reads it.

7. Lets go back to open, honest and working relationships and really define what is

INTEGRITY

for each one of us, and for us all.

Thanks to all for your patience at reading this long post, hopefully it will be helpful. Love to all.

Flash

Excellent post.

Also note, that Avalon is still here, and going strong. And, if we follow the same theory, it was because the majority of members, including Bill, did not respond the way they (Charles/33) were expecting.

[perfectresonance]

I went over to Nexus to read some of the posts there and a part of me got literally nauseated at reading the comments from some of the posters

Ditto.

So I stopped reading them.

However.

What disturbs me most?

That some of the posters over at Nexus are also here, but when they are here, they sing from a different song sheet.

Integrity.

Just sayin'

[andywight]

there is much more that unites us here at Avalon than divides us.


When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored. Eventually the truth will pop up somewhere else, maybe in another forum, but not here. Avalon is supposedly all about uncovering the truth. Why can't we deal with it? Isn't that why we are here?

Well said Chicodoodoo, I totally agree with you.

[Chicodoodoo]

hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

What prompted you ? Is everything OK? Did you find a [B]wolf in a sheep costume recently?


There are still some here, I note. Some not even bothering with a costume!

Let's not start bashing wolves. I've got enough problems.

[SKAWF]

hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.

thanks for the response Chico.

please dont see this as an attack....

if you cant point to anything he said that was a lie,
and nor can you point to anything that is true.....

how can you be sure about what you think you know?

steve

[Whiskey_Mystic]

hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.

Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.



edit- oh crap, did this just become another Charles thread? (John Cleese voice) Sorry, everyone. So sorry. :frusty:

[ulli]

years ago I was active in the Bahai religion which came out of Iran in the 19th century. There were many prophecies about this period, some fulfilled, such as the prophecies of the two world wars. If anyone is interested i could share them.

Anyway, there was one particular prophecy which never made any sense, but has become clearer to me now, and I think it refered to what is happening right here at Avalon.
I think Baha'u'llah meant us and in particular he meant Charles, Rocky, Inelia, and some others.
(whatever went on between Charles and Inelia I attribute to a misunderstanding, no more, which can be easily straightened out, but due to fall-out of Charles not having had enough preparation for people who had been on the search path for decades longer than himself. I basically see all of us on the same side.)
Here is the prophecy. Remember this came out of an offshoot of Shi'ite Islam, so allowances have to be made as far as the language is concerned. The "Faith of God" is the religion of Oneness...not Islam, by the way.
I had always thought he was talking about ETs, but now think he is talking about psychics as well as Indigo and Crystal children.


"The day is approaching when God will have, by an act of His Will, raised up a race of men the nature of which is inscrutable to all save God, the All-Powerful, the Self-Subsisting.”
“He will, erelong, out of the Bosom of Power, draw forth the Hands of Ascendancy and Might—Hands who will arise to win victory for this Youth, and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These Hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name, the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. They will enter the cities, and will inspire with fear the hearts of all their inhabitants. Such are the evidences of the might of God; how fearful, how vehement is His might!”

[perfectresonance]

When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored.

I'm not sure if my brain is wired up to understand that.

If people are banned for lying, the truth is being censored?

Nope. That makes my head hurt.

We are all people with flaws.

Teams work very well with flawed people.

But sometimes a flawed person adopts a behaviour that stops the team from progressing.

It causes the team to fracture.

It may even destroy the team as people take sides.

If the team wants to gets things back on track, such members need to be removed.

And that's not a bad thing - it's part of the process.

It may even mean there are now two teams, both working towards their own goal without the road blocks they felt were in place when together.

Integrity is to recognise the problem and deal with it openly.

Tick.

[SKAWF]

hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.

Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.

thanks Whiskey.

i wasnt aware of anything he said about crop circles,

with regards to st germaine,
why is it balderdash that charles might have an involvement with him,
but yours is erm..... whats the opposite of balderdash?

cheers
steve

PS true enough we have strayed a bit, but it does sort of relate to integrity

[DouglasDanger]

Okay so I skiped 22 pages
but I'll have you all know that when I am a guest in someone elses house, I keep it in check and lift the seat for the ladies and try my best not to spray it all around so the next person who's invited does not have a stinky smelly wet facility to use after me!.. Thats integrity! [/end joke ;)]

Some others mentioned an energy seperation feeling?

Divide and conqure isn't bad when you do the dividing, leave your main army where they're expected, ask for volenteers to deviate from the main bodies duties, they then set up for ambushes, gorilla style warfare and flank when the enemy arives and the time is right. Divided but not conqured.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

hi chico, can you point me to one thing that charles said, that you know is a lie?

No, I cannot. Nor can I point to one thing he said that I know is the truth. But I suspect the best candidate for truth coming from Charles is that he said he was good at his job.

Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.

thanks Whiskey.

i wasnt aware of anything he said about crop circles,

with regards to st germaine,
why is it balderdash that charles might have an involvement with him,
but yours is erm..... whats the opposite of balderdash?

cheers
steve

PS true enough we have strayed a bit, but it does sort of relate to integrity

Are you asking me to prove something that I have already stated that I can't prove? Please note the usage of the words "for myself" in my statement. Thank you.

[SKAWF]

anyway, the truth is

even though i might disagree wholeheartedly with someones view,
i would still fight to my death for their right to express it.

i heard that years ago.
and i live in accordance with it.
i hope that others extend the same curtesy to me.

i do like avalon.
theres a higher concentration of active minds here than most places.
ive learned quite a bit from the people here.
life changing stuff.

steve

[perfectresonance]

I'll tell you what, I would say anything I say in a post to anyone's face. Believe it.

Having been a recipient of Ice Cold's to-my-face communications, I will back him up on that much.

The issue here, Ice Cold, is that to claim Integrity is to say the same thing in public and in private, don't you think?

[SKAWF]

Are you asking me to prove something that I have already stated that I can't prove? Please note the usage of the words "for myself" in my statement. Thank you.


no i was asking why when charles says it, its balderdash,
but when you say it, its the truth.

to an outsider, i just see two people who say the same thing, but one calls the other a liar.

cheers

steve

[ulli]

About Flash's theory: all those scenarios went through my head at one point, too.
But when I engaged my heart a totally new picture emerged.
I had this knowing that Charles had had a profound transformation.
One can't expect he would change all his habits overnight,
or suddenly have all the knowledge that most of us had spent years accumulating...
that would be asking too much.

I just know that he knew where he wanted to belong and be accepted and not have to return to his former haunts.
Once one has seen a strong spiritual light and felt the lightness of being that comes with that
it is hard to go back to the density of the lower dimensions,
and the fear and the control structures that go with them.
He is a mortal like the rest of us, and he found some connections here that were healing him.
Those who have eyes to see, see.

[Sierra]

When members are banned, the truth is being censored. Even if the truth is that much of what the banned member is saying is a vindictive fabrication, that truth is being censored. Eventually the truth will pop up somewhere else, maybe in another forum, but not here. Avalon is supposedly all about uncovering the truth. Why can't we deal with it? Isn't that why we are here?

It is uncovered. I suspect that is why this thread was opened up. We are dealing with it, you and I and everyone having an honest discussion here with their heart.

I'm not sure that is why we are here as you ask... but I am willing to go through it so I can continue to be on Avalon in safety and respect. This issue is very important to me too Chico. And until you address the issue of safety and respect, I cannot unite with you and what you seem to want.

You gotta give me a better plan.
Sierra

[Gone001]

A lie I know about personally, when Charles called me on Skype in January, he told me that he and Bill were putting together a team. When I asked Bill about this (a few minutes later), Bill told me he knew NOTHING ABOUT IT. That he was not putting together a team, that it was something he had not been consulted or talked about by Charles and that it had nothing to do with him (Bill).

There's a one whopper for you ;)



Charles said something to the effect that the first crop circles were caused by drones that malfunctioned and landed in fields. Nonsense.

Charles also made statements regarding the involvement of St. Germaine. I can't prove it to any of you, but I know for myself that this is absolute balderdash. I have my own access to that wonderful entity.



edit- oh crap, did this just become another Charles thread? (John Cleese voice) Sorry, everyone. So sorry. :frusty:


[ There were discussions on this forum of the "group of 18" Charles was forming. These discussions occurred some time after Bill learned of these plans, from Inelia amongst others. Aldous conflated these two events and asked a number of loaded questions, impugning the integrity of Bill and Inelia. Aldous also impugned Whiskey_Mystic. I will not let such (not so) covert hostilities remain on this forum. I have removed them. - Paul. ]

[Sierra]

OK, this is something that has been bugging me for a long time and out comes my dark side. People keep saying Celine STILL has the record for the most postings on Avalon even though she has been gone for months. As if this is a compliment.

At first I thought this was hysterically funny but now I find myself feeling anger. It is actually excessive and inappropriate control and lack of respect. Why on earth should posting one liners consisting usually of one incomplete sentence that in most cases contained no information, had nothing to do with the thread, usually to single out her favorites for complimentary drivel in every single thread every two or three postings be something to praise and admire?

What? Did she cast a spell on you? Someone tell me, do you actually miss this and if so, why.

In its own way, it is just as oppressive as active name calling and insults only sneaky.

There is a post on Nexus where you see Celine can write in complete sentences, complete paragraphs, and in ordered thought while defending her part in the blowup. She is perfectly capable of direct communication and now I am mad that over HERE I was subjected to that LAZY continuous drivel.

Sierra stomping off to breathe again dammit

--EDIT--

THIS is the source of my making cracks about "reaaaaalllllll mennnnnn" and heaving bosoms. I'll stop making the cracks now.

--END EDIT--

[Inelia]

Inelia, I think it's pretty clear that Charles was referring to his group of 18. Are you honestly saying Bill was completely unaware of this with the multitudes of threads and posts pertaining to the subject? [mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

Yup. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying, Bill knew nothing of the 18. I take Bill at his word. He is my friend, and someone I respect and trust. I would ask you the same as you are doing for your friend, stop slandering Bill's reputation. You are implying that Bill was lying, he was not.

[Chicodoodoo]

This issue is very important to me too Chico. And until you address the issue of safety and respect, I cannot unite with you and what you seem to want.

Sierra, I agree that there must be a mechanism to ensure the safety of all members. Banning may be a reasonable mechanism when safety is at risk. Respect, on the other hand, cannot truly be enforced. Respect has to be earned. Banning someone for a perceived lack of respect does not seem proper. A time-out perhaps, but not a permanent banning.

A better plan than "you're gone" is definitely what is needed here. That kind of plan in itself shows a lack of respect towards others, if I may be so bold.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Whiskey your hostility is particularly puzzling. [mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

For the record, I am not hostile. In fact, I agree with Ulli. Charles said, "I dreamt of being a good man and awoke to find it may be possible." This touched me so much that it made me cry. I think that was the most important thing that he said and I emphasized it in early February. Everything that I have said of my own analysis is just data points and my own conclusions. I have no judgement about whether or not Charles is "good" or "bad' because I don't believe in such things. It just is what it is. Perhaps your assessment that this is "bashing" has more to do with your own point of view than mine.

I DO apologize if I have chosen words that were too inflamatory such as "balderdash". It sounded better to me than "bald faced manipulative lie", but I suppose it is the same. Charles built his life on manipulation and deceit. It's what he knows. I don't think he can help it. Yet. I think fate led him to Bill Ryan for this reason. Bill used to work with troubled youth.

I was trying not to respond to any more Charles this and that because I think this is off topic. I won't say anything further about it in this thread.

[SKAWF]

INTEGRITY

integrity is having to balls to stand up for that which you know to be true.

its about staying to answer any and all criticism directly, and with reason.

its about having the courage to face any amount of opposition,
and staying there till there is no more.

its about being focused on your goal and not being distracted by anything.

its about seeing something through till its conclusion, not giving up halfway.

its about being prepared to make sacrifices, and to put the effort in,

its about being able to look with pride at something you've created knowing 'i did that',

its about staying true to yourself,

its also about others knowing that they can rely on you, even in the bad times

its about being able to look someone in the eye without turning away

its also about a million other things too

there should be no place where the truth is unacceptable.

[sllim11]

I certainly do not know everything. But Does anyone think " they " would want to return to Avalon?

[Chicodoodoo]

please dont see this as an attack....

if you cant point to anything he said that was a lie,
and nor can you point to anything that is true.....

how can you be sure about what you think you know?

I don't see it as an attack, Steve. It is a very good question. I'm glad you asked.

The short answer is that I can't be sure. This is a consequence of my philosophy, "Question everything, dismiss nothing." You have to live with uncertainty to have any kind of integrity with such a philosophy. And we all know most people do not like uncertainty.

This concept, however, in not unknown in science. For example, we "know" there are electrons zipping around the nucleus of most atoms. Truth be told, we don't know it, but we strongly suspect it. A scientist can't tell you where that electron is exactly at any given moment, but he can describe with probabilities where it is most likely to be. But certainty? Forget it. The universe doesn't work that way. It turns out that I realized that I shouldn't either. The number of times I've been wrong about things was another clue supporting that realization. For example, the sociopathic con-artists that run this world had me fooled for a very long time.

Uncertainty doesn't stop me from pursuing truth. It just so happens that you can do a lot with probabilities, much more than you can do with certainties.

[perfectresonance]

There is a post on Nexus where you see Celine can write in complete sentences, complete paragraphs, and in ordered thought while defending her part in the blowup.


I wasn't here when Celine earned the respect of many. I too just saw the petty sniping and couldn't understand the outpouring of love for her. She also seemed to be unusually immune to being reprimanded for her "fluffy pillow observations". I didn't know about the relationship with Richard at the time.

But when she stood up here, at PA, and said "Mea Culpa!", and even argued against her own husband to ensure the truth was being spoken, I sat up and noticed.

The post you mentioned, at Nexus, where Celine writes a beautiful account of what happened, her role in it, and her taking responsibility for her actions...

...well...

All at once she had my total respect.

And I could finally see why so many people love her.

Richard is a lucky man.

Celine is flawed and troubled, but through the tribulations I finally got to see who she really is.

I'm sure she wouldn't feel the same way about me, but I would invite her into my house.

That woman placed integrity higher than the loyalty to her husband and friends when the time came.

I have forgiven her.

We are now poorer for not having her amongst us.

Yes, she made a lot of poor choices.

But Integrity? She has more than I do. And I suspect, more than many here.

[ulli]

Charles built his life on manipulation and deceit. It's what he knows. I don't think he can help it. Yet. I think fate led him to Bill Ryan for this reason. Bill used to work with troubled youth.

Life before enlightenment is life without choice. Everything just happens.

Real life begins only when free will enters,
and that is the moment that one becomes aware of options.

Living and being harmless.

That's when the real war begins, the struggle against those habitual behavior patterns of one's past.

And that's when friends are needed, to help one stay awake, and keep on that path.

The alternative is too awful, like returning to ignorance.

They say ignorance is bliss, but I've never met anyone who wants to go back there.

[perfectresonance]

---------

Dear Friends:

A few people posting on this thread have completely missed the point.

I suggest that that makes the point.

Some people (some?) have some very strong filters that they apply, knowingly or not.

I have been astounded where person A makes a factual statement ("this happens"), person B refers to it, and person C says person B shouldn't be making up stories like that. Even when person C is being directed to read person A's original statement, person C sticks to their filtered view, preferring to recast the unambiguous statement to fit their own needs.

One thing I have learned is that one of my flaws is that I expect other people to have the same ability to process information that I do.

Occasionally I am reminded that there are (otherwise smart and sane) people, when faced with immutable Truth, still manage to process it in such a way as to see it differently than I do.

I can't say I understand it, but I have accepted it happens.

[SKAWF]

please dont see this as an attack....

if you cant point to anything he said that was a lie,
and nor can you point to anything that is true.....

how can you be sure about what you think you know?

I don't see it as an attack, Steve. It is a very good question. I'm glad you asked.

The short answer is that I can't be sure. This is a consequence of my philosophy, "Question everything, dismiss nothing." You have to live with uncertainty to have any kind of integrity with such a philosophy. And we all know most people do not like uncertainty.

This concept, however, in not unknown in science. For example, we "know" there are electrons zipping around the nucleus of most atoms. Truth be told, we don't know it, but we strongly suspect it. A scientist can't tell you where that electron is exactly at any given moment, but he can describe with probabilities where it is most likely to be. But certainty? Forget it. The universe doesn't work that way. It turns out that I realized that I shouldn't either. The number of times I've been wrong about things was another clue supporting that realization. For example, the sociopathic con-artists that run this world had me fooled for a very long time.

Uncertainty doesn't stop me from pursuing truth. It just so happens that you can do a lot with probabilities, much more than you can do with certainties.

thanks for that Chico.

i absolutely agree that people dont like unknowns.
i think thats where applying labels to things comes from.
the little period of uncertainty until they can apply a label to something.

but without prior thought or conclusions, some things can be outside of someones experience.
the only thing they have left to judge something, is how they feel about it,
and as we've said, people dont like unknowns,
so anything new, might be seen as bad by default almost.
regardless of the actual reality.

ive taken on board new concepts,
knowing that pretty much every conclusion i have about it at that stage, will be wrong.
thinking its better to have some thoughts that will be corrected,
rather than none at all

my view for a while has been

we utilise knowledge,
but we learn from the things we dont yet know.

cheers

steve

[Sierra]

This issue is very important to me too Chico. And until you address the issue of safety and respect, I cannot unite with you and what you seem to want.

Sierra, I agree that there must be a mechanism to ensure the safety of all members. Banning may be a reasonable mechanism when safety is at risk. Respect, on the other hand, cannot truly be enforced. Respect has to be earned. Banning someone for a perceived lack of respect does not seem proper. A time-out perhaps, but not a permanent banning.

A better plan than "you're gone" is definitely what is needed here. That kind of plan in itself shows a lack of respect towards others, if I may be so bold.

OK, thank you for breaking silence on this issue. Now we can dialog. We have a difference in terminology. I am not talking about the kind of respect one tries to earn on the job. I am talking about the respect every single sovereign soul on this website deserves. The kind of respect that shows we are here for each other's growth and a connection that provides joy and amusement along the way.

As for the other kind of respect, ALL of us are above and below someone in attributes and skills. All of us. Of what use is earned respect in a spiral world view? This place is not a job, not a career, not a paycheck. This is a private forum where we come to be with like minded people in agreement with Bill's mission statement. If earned respect causes the kind of abuse experienced here a few months ago, forget it. I was appalled by their words and deeds. Those who were banned don't get my respect. They didn't earn it.

Safety WAS at risk. I don't know about you but me the deafie heard repeatedly on this thread that people were not posting because they felt threatened and intimidated. Earned respect indeed.

I don't think you can talk to me about safety and respect when it is perfectly clear you been blind and deaf to the issue for 25 pages as evidenced by your complete silence on the subject until I brought it up directly to you. It is more important than you think.

If you plan to keep talking about this, put a scenario out here so we can see if it is workable or not. Come up with something better than what is currently in place.

Earn the respect of one pissed off old crone

Sierra

[mariposafe]

Good to see that the last 14 hours has produced so much wonderful dialogue, thanks everyone, especially Flash for that wonderful, long-but-iteresting post. I possibly have more to say, but I want time to marshal my thoughts, and right now I have an appointment with 65 Chinese teenagers, who are going to be treated to 30 minutes of Edmund Blackadder, give them something to laugh at before their mid-term exams !
This really is a wonderful forum, thank you everyone, keep it up ! ;)

[Gone001]

[mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

[Inelia]

[mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

You have obviously made up your mind, so no point discussing it further.
I like that you went from "Bill obviously knew what was happening about the 18 - and lying about it" type attitude, to one where Charles was misunderstood... a slight, yet positive shift.

[Isthatso]

I find this thread expanding my awareness in unexpected ways (personal attacks aside).

There's very clever people here at Avalon......

:tea:

Thanks and warm wishes...

[SKAWF]

[mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

[Gone001]

[mod-edit: text deleted - see my mod-edit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18908-Integrity&p=204756&viewfull=1#post204756), above. - Paul. ]

[jjl]

oh please breath!

[Dennis Leahy]

Well, some of this thread relates to integrity.

We've got the cast and crew from 2 different forums, the overlap of members in those 2 forums, plus the so-called 33 rulers of the world (some pure; some impure), plus Charles, all being mentioned. No mention of Adolph Hitler yet, so that's a good sign.

I'm going to recommend that if someone wants to debate about changing the rules or the 'spirit' of Project Avalon - that we all agreed to when we became members - that is a separate subject from this thread titled "Integrity."

I'll also remind everyone not to single-out individuals ("ad hominem"), even if you are directly on-topic and talking about Integrity. If anyone thinks that directly challenging someone else's integrity is going to end up on a positive note (or even a neutral resolution), then you're so immersed into your emotions that you're not thinking straight. Stop posting until you shake that notion.

You know that amazing part of yourself that has soul-smiling inner vision and a vibrant depth of compassion that beams outwards in every direction? The Higher Self? Use that, and the conversation moves forward toward healing.

Dennis

[Inelia]

There is a very distinct and very easily identifiable energy flowing back and forth, from this thread to the other forum. Personal attacks, they come in various forms, and "innocent" people can be used to carry them out.

Was there an attack on Bill on this thread? Yes. No denying it, no matter how you change your words. It is called "covert hostility", which is when someone pretends to be nice while stabbing someone with innuendos and veiled accusations. I don't do that, I call a spade a spade.

There really is no secret about where the ultimate source puppets are who are stirring all the mud at Bill, nor the puppeteers. My message to "them" is that you will not succeed. Bill and Avalon are standing strong. If I feel a threat to this place or Bill, even if simply implied, I will step in. No question.

Take it or leave it.

As to this thread, it no longer reflect the spirit with which it was started, I would ask the mods to close it.

[Limor]

This issue is very important to me too Chico. And until you address the issue of safety and respect, I cannot unite with you and what you seem to want.

Sierra, I agree that there must be a mechanism to ensure the safety of all members. Banning may be a reasonable mechanism when safety is at risk. Respect, on the other hand, cannot truly be enforced. Respect has to be earned.

Respect can not be enforced,but respectfull communication can and will be..
Always agreeing is not necessary or natural,but expressing it through slander is not A usefull thing!
Words and thoughts are a strong form of energy in the universe,this is why the whole game around it is being manipulated.
taking self responsibility on our words and actions (not on our reflections) is a tough thing to do,but necessary.

Ignoring it or saying 'oh,well i've been pissed off,so it is justified',is how things were always done.
lets take a look around us...

isn't it about time that we try something else?

~*&^~*&^~*&^

Limor