Fraud? Deception? Speak!

[Chicodoodoo]

We all know Project Avalon is a champion of truth. Whistle-blowers are proudly presented here to reveal the fraud and deception that damages us all. Subjects frowned upon by the mainstream media are openly discussed and hotly debated here. In keeping with that spirit of truth-seeking and open inquiry, it occurred to me that a thread dedicated to this activity could be useful. It could act as a clearinghouse or catalog for new inquiry into deception and fraud. We have the opportunity to be whistle-blowers ourselves right here in our own secure and safe haven!

Let me give you an example close to home. One of our members is operating under an obviously assumed name and could be an “agent provocateur”. I’m hesitant to reveal names here, as this is a very delicate matter, but the first part of his name means “little boy” in Spanish, and the second part means “excrement” in American slang. This “little boy excrement” may be pushing people’s buttons, stirring up discontent, evoking strong reactions, and publicly practicing dissent that could potentially embarrass other members. There is very strong evidence that he has actually “thanked” posts in external forums that could be considered divisive or disrespectful in nature. I happen to know from a very reliable but anonymous source that he has even refrained from thanking highly sensitive posts on external forums in order to preserve his own neck! This demonstrates a dangerous two-faced, back-stabbing attitude that calls into question his very integrity. Should not fraud and deception of this magnitude be publicly called into question? I propose this thread for that purpose. There may be other members at Avalon that need the spotlight of truth shined upon them as well. It is our duty to do so. Many of us have reincarnated here for that very purpose. We had best get on with it.

[Rocky_Shorz]

looks around for a light...

whew, wasn't me... ;)

[crosby]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

[K626]

We all know Project Avalon is a champion of truth. Whistle-blowers are proudly presented here to reveal the fraud and deception that damages us all. Subjects frowned upon by the mainstream media are openly discussed and hotly debated here. In keeping with that spirit of truth-seeking and open inquiry, it occurred to me that a thread dedicated to this activity could be useful. It could act as a clearinghouse or catalog for new inquiry into deception and fraud. We have the opportunity to be whistle-blowers ourselves right here in our own secure and safe haven!

Let me give you an example close to home. One of our members is operating under an obviously assumed name and could be an “agent provocateur”. I’m hesitant to reveal names here, as this is a very delicate matter, but the first part of his name means “little boy” in Spanish, and the second part means “excrement” in American slang. This “little boy excrement” may be pushing people’s buttons, stirring up discontent, evoking strong reactions, and publicly practicing dissent that could potentially embarrass other members. There is very strong evidence that he has actually “thanked” posts in external forums that could be considered divisive or disrespectful in nature. I happen to know from a very reliable but anonymous source that he has even refrained from thanking highly sensitive posts on external forums in order to preserve his own neck! This demonstrates a dangerous two-faced, back-stabbing attitude that calls into question his very integrity. Should not fraud and deception of this magnitude be publicly called into question? I propose this thread for that purpose. There may be other members at Avalon that need the spotlight of truth shined upon them as well. It is our duty to do so. Many of us have reincarnated here for that very purpose. We had best get on with it.

Is this parody?

KKlein

[DevilPigeon]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

Corson's an FBI/CIA agent, she figured out who the agent provocateur was waaaaaaaaay too quickly in my opinion....

[Second Son]

I think that truth and disclosure is what this forum is all about. So I say knock yourself out... HOWEVER even if you are RIGHT methinks the mods would have a problem with you naming names... "Trolling" I think it's called, and I should know... I looked it up after I was banned from Avalon for a month for being accused of doing it.

The truth, it seems, needs to be rolled out with care and diplomacy, lest those in positions to do so, squelsh it.

[greybeard]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

Got in one.

Genuine seeker I would say.

Chris

[crosby]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

Corson's an FBI/CIA agent, she figured out who the agent provocateur was waaaaaaaaay too quickly in my opinion....

no. no. no. i didn't do it........ i am not a crook.......(peace)! i understand what he's saying, he's opening up a new can of worms. i'm interested in seeing what happens. i was going to ask chico if he was also the guy who dressed up like a cow to steal a gallon of milk....(from another thread started here today). that was pretty funny.
warmest, corson

all kidding aside for a moment, if chico knows that there are 'provocateurs' here, then we should in all honesty bring it too light. lets see how it works for all.

[ulli]

Little boys like to stir sh*t, just to get a reaction, right, Chico(doodoo)?
And reactions reveal a lot, don't they?
Since we can't see bogey language nor feces, I mean body language nor faces, I'd say you're onto something here.

Cool thread, which I will be visiting incognito.

[K626]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

Got in one.

Genuine seeker I would say.

Chris

Gonna keep an eye on Corson now. ;)

K

[DevilPigeon]

-----

The way I see the whole issue about either 'being scared to post in case you're "retired" too soon' or 'thanking posts on other sites that seem to go against the grain', is that it creates a bit of a paradox:


You're true to yourself & unafraid to upset the applecart (and thus risk a ban, which may be detrimental as whole whole to a wider community)
You're lying to yourself by holding yourself back, and thus keeping yourself in favour (which again, may ultimately be detrimental to a wider community)

[Nairnia]

We all know Project Avalon is a champion of truth........ It could act as a clearinghouse or catalog for new inquiry into deception and fraud. We have the opportunity to be whistle-blowers ourselves right here in our own secure and safe haven!.....Should not fraud and deception of this magnitude be publicly called into question? I propose this thread for that purpose. There may be other members at Avalon that need the spotlight of truth shined upon them as well. It is our duty to do so. Many of us have reincarnated here for that very purpose. We had best get on with it.

With that in mind, there was an interesting post on the OM Camelot page: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=10126


-----

The way I see the whole issue about either 'being scared to post in case you're "retired" too soon' or 'thanking posts on other sites that seem to go against the grain', is that it creates a bit of a paradox:


You're true to yourself & unafraid to upset the applecart (and thus risk a ban, which may be detrimental as whole whole to a wider community)
You're lying to yourself by holding yourself back, and thus keeping yourself in favour (which again, may ultimately be detrimental to a wider community)


A test case?

[DevilPigeon]

.
.

-----

The way I see the whole issue about either 'being scared to post in case you're "retired" too soon' or 'thanking posts on other sites that seem to go against the grain', is that it creates a bit of a paradox:


You're true to yourself & unafraid to upset the applecart (and thus risk a ban, which may be detrimental as whole whole to a wider community)
You're lying to yourself by holding yourself back, and thus keeping yourself in favour (which again, may ultimately be detrimental to a wider community)


A test case?

Without naming names, or admittedly knowing the whole history of this certain individual, my perception is that someone got retired for merely thanking a post on an external site.

[jjl]

In my case I was more afraid of getting "beat up" on a thread BEFORE the bans

[Nairnia]

In my case I was more afraid of getting "beat up" on a thread BEFORE the bans

I know what you mean, there are a few "playground bullies!"

[noprophet]

I've thanked posts in support of their right to opposition, not always because I agree. Or even a point I don't agree with that was made exceedingly coherently.

My thanks extend well beyond my alignments. In fact they couldn't exist without them.

[Fred259]

-----

The way I see the whole issue about either 'being scared to post in case you're "retired" too soon' or 'thanking posts on other sites that seem to go against the grain', is that it creates a bit of a paradox:


You're true to yourself & unafraid to upset the applecart (and thus risk a ban, which may be detrimental as whole whole to a wider community)
You're lying to yourself by holding yourself back, and thus keeping yourself in favour (which again, may ultimately be detrimental to a wider community)


I don’t agree Pigeon, this issue came up months ago and I posted then saying it was wrong being a member of both sites. Many didn’t agree and I was heavily criticised at the time.

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

If the reason for being on any forum is to agree with everyone and gain lots of “thanks” I would suggest something is wrong with the person’s motive.

Its better sticking with Avalon or Richards site, tittle tattling between the two is in my view Bill’s gripe about integrity. Actually I think Bill made a mistake in calling the thread Integrity, “two faced” might have been better.

Stick with Avalon and lets get on..

PS I vote for Pigeons being a protected species.

[Nairnia]

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

No one should. I posted a question to a persistant poster of anti-western propoganda from questionable sources and had one "member" personally attack me and my motivation and accusing me of being a troll. It just wasnt worth the hassle and unpleasantness....

[The One]

Can i just say i am feeling very negative about this i feel there is a storm brewing.Anyone would like to pm concerning this please do so if there is any truth to this

the one

[Chicodoodoo]

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

Good question. The answer, of course, is that no one should be afraid of posting. When people are, there is a problem, and generally, it is fear of consequences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjExDkL8CGM

[DevilPigeon]

.
.
I don’t agree Pigeon, this issue came up months ago and I posted then saying it was wrong being a member of both sites. Many didn’t agree and I was heavily criticised at the time.

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

If the reason for being on any forum is to agree with everyone and gain lots of “thanks” I would suggest something is wrong with the person’s motive.

Its better sticking with Avalon or Richards site, tittle tattling between the two is in my view Bill’s gripe about integrity. Actually I think Bill made a mistake in calling the thread Integrity, “two faced” might have been better.

Stick with Avalon and lets get on..



It's just the feeling I've got, maybe it's shock waves from the recent "retirements"... I'll never claim to be a psychic or whatever, but I sense others feel the same.


PS I vote for Pigeons being a protected species.

You get the official 'DP seal of approval' on that one! :thumb:

[The One]

Good question. The answer, of course, is that no one should be afraid of posting. When people are, there is a problem, and generally, it is fear of consequences

I fear no one i am a truth seeker all the misinfo/disinfo programs that the government departments have done in order to confuse the masses, conceal the ET presence and blame everything on national security is a joke.

The truth is coming and there is nothing anyone can do about it

[Calz]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

Corson's an FBI/CIA agent, she figured out who the agent provocateur was waaaaaaaaay too quickly in my opinion....

Okay ... but ... sssshhhhhhhh ... and stay the heck away from that thank you button else we will all go down with the ship :)

[Fructedor]

-----

I don’t agree Pigeon, this issue came up months ago and I posted then saying it was wrong being a member of both sites. Many didn’t agree and I was heavily criticised at the time.

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

If the reason for being on any forum is to agree with everyone and gain lots of “thanks” I would suggest something is wrong with the person’s motive.

Its better sticking with Avalon or Richards site, tittle tattling between the two is in my view Bill’s gripe about integrity. Actually I think Bill made a mistake in calling the thread Integrity, “two faced” might have been better.

Stick with Avalon and lets get on..

PS I vote for Pigeons being a protected species.

Don't follow you there Fred - why should being a member of different sites be wrong? I agree no-one should be afraid to post, and that posting just to trawl for thanks is suspect - but as long as your posts are honest and pertinent where you post, where's the problem? This isn't the army.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I told everyone a long time ago we need a parking lot for fighters to go beat themselves up offline from the public...

These threads continue to pop up looking for someone on the edge terrified of getting booted, kind of funny that is what people are worried about...

talk about a sheltered life... lol

[dan i el]

who ever said irony was dead?

Hi Chicodoodoo, I would like to contribute to your thread but cannot as I am terrified of getting booted.

[DeDukshyn]

People should fear breaking the rules of Avalon -- because that is what will get them "terminated"
With responsibility comes a lack of fear.

[Teakai]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

So, Chicodoodoo - is it you?

What's the point of blowing your own cover?

Are you also Corson?

Am I foolish to expect an honest answer from a potential deviot? :)

Just to say - though your posts may be seen as provocative by some, I have always found them reasonable and valid. (the one's I've read anyway :) )

There's provoking for the sake of causing trouble - or there's provoking in order to expose the wheat from the chaff.
I see your posts as being in the second category.

[dan i el]

but I will say this, Chicodoodoo, I was a moderator on a site for over 4 years until a year or so ago, I am still a member, at that time the site had a very clear policy of never deleting posts; so everything was on the record,so to speak. Also, there was an attempt to never censor - as a mod that meant often enough been cast in the role of big brother and getting all manner of doodoo slung our way. It was water off a duck's back though, tbh.
Frustration and the occasional meltdown simply comes with the territory of truth seeking sites wherein often lie passionate differences in opinion imho. It's not worth adopting a "book'em Dano" attitude, it leads to more strife as we can see evidenced on this site now.

Another, private, site I was once lucky enough to be invited to had a rotating staff edit) which did wonders in dismantling the problems inherent with hierarchy and in many ways facilitated personal growth amongst the membership (it is simple enough to make a back up once a week in case someone tries to scupper the database and as far as I can recall, it never happened anyhow) and there was ABSOLUTELY no censorship. It was called Infinity squared and alas it is no more. Only over 18's were accepted for legal safety and it was essentially a very well hidden site for Aspies but neurotypicals were welcomed too..if by invite. In terms of the no censorship policy, it actually turned out that the members self regulated (!) and bullying, trolling etc was always nipped in the bud, if somewhat savagely sometimes. But no one was ever banned. It was an interesting experiment which in many ways was a success but then we were mostly all autistic. shrugs.

[crosby]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

So, Chicodoodoo - is it you?

What's the point of blowing your own cover?

Are you also Corson?

Am I foolish to expect an honest answer from a potential deviot? :)

Just to say - though your posts may be seen as provocative by some, I have always found them reasonable and valid. (the one's I've read anyway :) )

There's provoking for the sake of causing trouble - or there's provoking in order to expose the wheat from the chaff.
I see your posts as being in the second category.

no, chico is not me, and i am not chico. follow the links.
regards, corson

[DeDukshyn]

We all know Project Avalon is a champion of truth. Whistle-blowers are proudly presented here to reveal the fraud and deception that damages us all. Subjects frowned upon by the mainstream media are openly discussed and hotly debated here. In keeping with that spirit of truth-seeking and open inquiry, it occurred to me that a thread dedicated to this activity could be useful. It could act as a clearinghouse or catalog for new inquiry into deception and fraud. We have the opportunity to be whistle-blowers ourselves right here in our own secure and safe haven!

Let me give you an example close to home. One of our members is operating under an obviously assumed name and could be an “agent provocateur”. I’m hesitant to reveal names here, as this is a very delicate matter, but the first part of his name means “little boy” in Spanish, and the second part means “excrement” in American slang. This “little boy excrement” may be pushing people’s buttons, stirring up discontent, evoking strong reactions, and publicly practicing dissent that could potentially embarrass other members. There is very strong evidence that he has actually “thanked” posts in external forums that could be considered divisive or disrespectful in nature. I happen to know from a very reliable but anonymous source that he has even refrained from thanking highly sensitive posts on external forums in order to preserve his own neck! This demonstrates a dangerous two-faced, back-stabbing attitude that calls into question his very integrity. Should not fraud and deception of this magnitude be publicly called into question? I propose this thread for that purpose. There may be other members at Avalon that need the spotlight of truth shined upon them as well. It is our duty to do so. Many of us have reincarnated here for that very purpose. We had best get on with it.

Its ok pooboy, we still love ya. ;)

[crosby]

I've thanked posts in support of their right to opposition, not always because I agree. Or even a point I don't agree with that was made exceedingly coherently.

My thanks extend well beyond my alignments. In fact they couldn't exist without them.

i agree with you. i've thanked people simply because i thought what they said was funny, or could be a point of interest, or simply out of respect. but, the problem isn't thanking people, the problem is that it's being considered derisive to go to another forum and post anything or thank any posts that have any link to this forum, dual membership, with perhaps dual perspectives and such.
warmest, corson

this is just my opinion of course, i do not know the ins and outs of it all. and i could very well be wrong, god knows that i've been wrong a lot in my life up to this point.

[Teakai]

no, chico is not me, and i am not chico. follow the links.
regards, corson

I was using the 'example', Corson.

I already had 'feelings' in regard to the link.

[crosby]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

Got in one.

Genuine seeker I would say.

Chris

may i ask you, a seeker of what?
corson

[dan i el]

I've thanked posts in support of their right to opposition, not always because I agree. Or even a point I don't agree with that was made exceedingly coherently.

My thanks extend well beyond my alignments. In fact they couldn't exist without them.

i agree with you. i've thanked people simply because i thought what they said was funny, or could be a point of interest, or simply out of respect. but, the problem isn't thanking people, the problem is that it's being considered derisive to go to another forum and post anything or thank any posts that have any link to this forum, dual membership, with perhaps dual perspectives and such.
warmest, corson

this is just my opinion of course, i do not know the ins and outs of it all. and i could very well be wrong, god knows that i've been wrong a lot in my life up to this point.

Message boards fragment really often, seemingly it is the nature of the web, if not just essentially the nature of human groupings under banners. This is forum 4 from PA for example. Dual membership isn't that strange or weird imho...dual citizenship can be a different kettle of onions though.

It seemed to me that Bill was called out as being a "fraud" who would be "exposed" should he "dare" ever to set foot in .CA over on the other site (nexus2012). Strong stuff, really, and some members from here thanked that post; he got the hump about it and curtailed their presence here. Personally speaking, I think that was fair enough, it's his "house", after all. why should he be chastised for not trying to be Jesuslike enough about it and turn the other cheek if he doesn't want to?It was them that decided to thank someone for calling him derisive names out of obvious hurt feewing. shrugs

[Arc]

This is clever. And, I look forward to seeing how this thread unfolds...

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=Fred259;207388]-----

I don’t agree Pigeon, this issue came up months ago and I posted then saying it was wrong being a member of both sites. Many didn’t agree and I was heavily criticised at the time.

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

If the reason for being on any forum is to agree with everyone and gain lots of “thanks” I would suggest something is wrong with the person’s motive.

Its better sticking with Avalon or Richards site, tittle tattling between the two is in my view Bill’s gripe about integrity. Actually I think Bill made a mistake in calling the thread Integrity, “two faced” might have been better.

Stick with Avalon and lets get on..

PS I vote for Pigeons being a protected species.

Don't follow you there Fred - why should being a member of different sites be wrong?
This is why, I’ve just been on Richards site for the first time via a link on this thread.

It’s a nice site I do like the template, but one moment: it would seem to me that half of you lot are two faced. Some of you tittle tattle on Richards site and come over here and be all lovey dovey. Get real guys. Seriously I’m more than “rather” disappointed.


I agree no-one should be afraid to post, and that posting just to trawl for thanks is suspect - but as long as your posts are honest and pertinent where you post, where's the problem?

Well this is precisely my point, if you are frightened about posting it’s because you forgot what you said or who you thanked on the other site for some ridiculous statement. Then It’s do I or don’t I, and will this come back on me. Then you blame everyone else and say you’re frightened of posting, and comments like “walking on eggshells”. So frankly you get all you deserve. Stick with Avalon and let’s get on.



This isn't the army.

No its not, but one thing the military does do for the individual, and I’ve been in the air force is that it teaches you to be disciplined, structured and above all to be loyal.


Don’t be frightened of the mods, they won’t ban you. I’ve got Ilie in my gun site, he posted up about the “US attacking China”, he doesn’t know that; I was going to challenge him but lost the thread, however he won’t ban me for disagreeing with him.

The next problem is hypothetically let’s say Ilie continues posting and members think this is disruptive or that he doesn’t have the best interests of the forum in mind. How do the members deal with Ilie, they cant is the answer. The only solution is for very clear lines of communication to be established.

In this example clearly the mods need to be restricted from posting personal opinions and views with the exception of Bill obviously.

I thought it was completely wrong that Charles had full and free access to the forum. Likewise John Lear when he was around. Those who are providing information, tutorials wisdom etc need to remain aloof and distant from the member’s “communication” forum.

I’m not talking about Bill and Kerry obviously they need control of the forums, but David Wilcox for example he mustn’t be able to post on the forum. He sets out his stall, provides his wisdom and the members discuss it.

This way the forum can’t be subverted.




PS Chicodoodoo highlights another problem in # 1. This is where an “agent provocateur” on Avalon if such a person should exist may discredit you on another website by stealing your identity on Avalon. The AP then logs on the other website as you and discredits you and in so doing destroys your good name on Avalon.

What’s needed now is a little counter subversion protecting you. Therefore go and register your Avalon screen name on the other website.

ie. If you are “pinkpuppy” on Avalon you must also be “pinkpuppy” on the other website. This way you and your identity are protected. Pinkpuppy is now taken and only you have access.

[Lord Sidious]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

Corson's an FBI/CIA agent, she figured out who the agent provocateur was waaaaaaaaay too quickly in my opinion....

You really are a devil pigeon. :p






Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

No one should. I posted a question to a persistant poster of anti-western propoganda from questionable sources and had one "member" personally attack me and my motivation and accusing me of being a troll. It just wasnt worth the hassle and unpleasantness....

I did indeed post that.
All anyone has to do is look at your post history.
And I stand by every letter and syllable I posted.

[dan i el]

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

No one should. I posted a question to a persistant poster of anti-western propoganda from questionable sources and had one "member" personally attack me and my motivation and accusing me of being a troll. It just wasnt worth the hassle and unpleasantness....

I did indeed post that.
All anyone has to do is look at your post history.
And I stand by every letter and syllable I posted.

easy, tiger

[enfoldedblue]

Ha ha ha....For a minute I was wondering who this 'ninopoo' was. Anyway I try not to get too involved in the political side of these forums. I like avalon because there are a lot of interesting topics raised in the threads and a lot of knowledgeable people responding. I am also a member of nexus for the same reasons. I see no reason to pick sides and pledge allegiance to one site. I figure the more information I have access to the better. I think everyone should be free to express themselves however, and wherever, they feel appropriate. I find it very sad that a situation has been created that makes people afraid to post their true thoughts....for me this completely goes against what I thought this forum stood for. Probably I am naive, but if I had the choice I would go for a completely lasser-faire approach, rather than a heavy handed mod approach. Sure we might have some nasty posts, and some feelings might get hurt, but as long as there were enough good, loving, aware people on board I believe things would ultimately work themselves out. We have been taught that without authority there would be chaos, but I feel that this is 'old paradigm'. Sure, as we learn to step away from authority there will inevitably be teething issues, but how else are people going to learn that an open, repectful response is more effective and constructive than spewing vitriole?

LOVE ALLways, c

[truthseekerdan]

Chico, good to notice your awakening. :) This real you, this conscious hidden intelligence that exists behind your eyes, is timeless, formless, and built from all the glory and magnificence that ever was. It is not a name or a job or a home -- indeed it has nothing to do with circumstance or situation. The plain fact is that you exist. Dwell on that, nothing more.

Much Love ~ Dan

[mondaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUO_5EALZoM
ninoplops this is for you

[Flash]

Chicosito con su poopoo,

Your post was true humour to me. Albeit with some sarcasms, do I decipher well? I did laugh loud. lol

As I prefer quiet relationships on a forum, a forum being only a forum, not all of life, albeit very fun and informative. I must say that my fear could be, if a problem ever arise, to only lose some of the fun. I am pretty sure this is the same for most, hopefully (if not we are in deep psychological waters - imho).. For my spiritual evolution, thanks to all those helping here, but it is mostly up to me in my actual physical place of residence, to do whatever is necessary (meaning most is outside the internet altogether) imho again.

I am truly starting to understand your personality and your sense of humour, Chico, gosh, I cannot add the doodoo anymore to your name, must not have been quite anal,

thanks for the relaxing laugh you created,

Que le vaya bien con el sitio aqui,

Flash

[Shikasta]

THANK YOU Chicadoodoo! We should ALL be extremely grateful for your tireless pursuit of 'integrity' and the weeding out of those that would obscure 'transparent' debate.

Graeme

[1159]

The challenge as I see it is how much discussed by the alternative media is propaganda, disinformation, fantasy, wild conjecture and malicious rumor mongering. Somewhere between those piles of rubbish there may be small gaps where useful truth slips in unnoticed.

Sifting through all the material to find 'the truth' is in itself a dodgy business, as some of the bull**** rubs off on ya fingers. How do you tell what maybe true and reliable and how do you see through the superficial hyperbole?

The other challenge is that some people treat this whole thing as a game, a fun pursuit to see who can pull the wool over the eyes and watch the rat pack dashing after the next piece of disinfo. If you're in doubt about that, you only have to peruse some of the back thread here, or any other alt-news forum to see how the games play out. And check out the propaganda on youtube, in fact it's more like a playground for boys with the latest trick with video editors. Didn't we all see this years ago in 'Private Eye' magazine? and yet we still fall for those old tricks, smoke and mirrors ...

My guess is that at least 50% and maybe more of the material posted is either corrupted deliberately or accidentally to keep the 'game on' and that game is hugely enjoyed by the world power brokers. Occasionally someone hits the bulls eye and that maybe deliberately or accidentally also. The real question we all need to ask is 'Do we prefer the boring truth to the exciting fun and games and can we tell the difference?'

To answer the original question, yes we do need a clearing house, a big fat sensitive nose for the squashy turds all over the floor. But by what criteria do we decide? There are so many 'unknown unknowns' and to quote Hoagland, 'The truth is different at every level'.

[3optic]

-----

I don’t agree Pigeon, this issue came up months ago and I posted then saying it was wrong being a member of both sites. Many didn’t agree and I was heavily criticised at the time.

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

If the reason for being on any forum is to agree with everyone and gain lots of “thanks” I would suggest something is wrong with the person’s motive.

Its better sticking with Avalon or Richards site, tittle tattling between the two is in my view Bill’s gripe about integrity. Actually I think Bill made a mistake in calling the thread Integrity, “two faced” might have been better.

Stick with Avalon and lets get on..

PS I vote for Pigeons being a protected species.

Don't follow you there Fred - why should being a member of different sites be wrong?
This is why, I’ve just been on Richards site for the first time via a link on this thread.

It’s a nice site I do like the template, but one moment: it would seem to me that half of you lot are two faced. Some of you tittle tattle on Richards site and come over here and be all lovey dovey. Get real guys. Seriously I’m more than “rather” disappointed.


I agree no-one should be afraid to post, and that posting just to trawl for thanks is suspect - but as long as your posts are honest and pertinent where you post, where's the problem?

Well this is precisely my point, if you are frightened about posting it’s because you forgot what you said or who you thanked on the other site for some ridiculous statement. Then It’s do I or don’t I, and will this come back on me. Then you blame everyone else and say you’re frightened of posting, and comments like “walking on eggshells”. So frankly you get all you deserve. Stick with Avalon and let’s get on.



This isn't the army.

No its not, but one thing the military does do for the individual, and I’ve been in the air force is that it teaches you to be disciplined, structured and above all to be loyal.



Hi Fred,
Good to hear about the benefit of your military training. It definitely shows! Loyalty fits with the aforementioned principal of integrity. In other words, a friendship once formed should not be betrayed.
However, speaking to, exchanging information with or even befriending someone your friend doesn't approve of wouldn't constitute an act of betrayal IMO.

What may make this awkward is that most of these exchanges are transparent to all. And yes, some have behaved duplicitously.

[greybeard]

Avalon is different things to different people.
I joined the original not because of the conspiracy exposure aspect or Bill and Kerry interviews but to join the Scottish Ground crew and interacting with like minded people with spiritual knowledge. whom I could learn from.

Some other things are of passing interest.

I have the greatest respect for what Bill and Kery did and Bills solo interviews are excellent -- I particularly enjoyed the Marcel Messer one.

I dont like name calling and as pointed out there are people here from many culture who dont have English as a 1st language so they may miss the essence or context or what is being said so misunderstandings happen.

All souls are equal.
The Buddha said put no head above your own, Other know different thing form what you know and you appreciate them and want to learn from them but hreo worship in my opinion, for what it is worth is not healthy, as it creates a follower mentality.

I am for open transparent debate -- some went too far because they made it personal and got into name calling.
Truth searching is fine when done with only the agenda of seeking truth for truth sake.

I believe Chico is of that mentality
As is my friend truthseekerdan.
He has posted many videos that I appreciate.

There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

I care about Avalon and get much from it--- Conspiracy exposure can be manipulated by those one tries to expose ie controllers so I take all that with a pinch of salt.
There are many facets of Avalon and great threads here possibly under estimated in their value.
Say what you want but with diplomacy and you have nothing to fear.
Provide evidence of any assertions.
That may not be easy.

In passing I would like to thank both Dennis and Paul who responded with integrity to a request I made.

Porridge making calls
Have a nice weekend

Respecting all points of view
Chris

[mondaze]

would that we could speak our minds clearly either here or there... and that in a nutshell is the rub

[Nairnia]

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

No one should. I posted a question to a persistant poster of anti-western propoganda from questionable sources and had one "member" personally attack me and my motivation and accusing me of being a troll. It just wasnt worth the hassle and unpleasantness....

I did indeed post that.
All anyone has to do is look at your post history.
And I stand by every letter and syllable I posted.

Oh God....its the playground bully....!
You dont like it when people take an opposing view do you?
I find it amusing that someone who is lost in the fiction of Star Wars should be so nasty, its just a movie you know.

http://www.aiohq.com/images/nathan/StarWars.jpg

[K626]

Chico, good to notice your awakening. :) This real you, this conscious hidden intelligence that exists behind your eyes, is timeless, formless, and built from all the glory and magnificence that ever was. It is not a name or a job or a home -- indeed it has nothing to do with circumstance or situation. The plain fact is that you exist. Dwell on that, nothing more.

Much Love ~ Dan

Let the energy be still.

Peace

K

[Tony]

I thought life was complicated enough.........!
I never trust my mind!

I shall now denounce my own buttocks.

[Mr54]

The challenge as I see it is how much discussed by the alternative media is propaganda, disinformation, fantasy, wild conjecture and malicious rumor mongering. Somewhere between those piles of rubbish there may be small gaps where useful truth slips in unnoticed.

Sifting through all the material to find 'the truth' is in itself a dodgy business, as some of the bull**** rubs off on ya fingers. How do you tell what maybe true and reliable and how do you see through the superficial hyperbole?

The other challenge is that some people treat this whole thing as a game, a fun pursuit to see who can pull the wool over the eyes and watch the rat pack dashing after the next piece of disinfo. If you're in doubt about that, you only have to peruse some of the back thread here, or any other alt-news forum to see how the games play out. And check out the propaganda on youtube, in fact it's more like a playground for boys with the latest trick with video editors. Didn't we all see this years ago in 'Private Eye' magazine? and yet we still fall for those old tricks, smoke and mirrors ...

My guess is that at least 50% and maybe more of the material posted is either corrupted deliberately or accidentally to keep the 'game on' and that game is hugely enjoyed by the world power brokers. Occasionally someone hits the bulls eye and that maybe deliberately or accidentally also. The real question we all need to ask is 'Do we prefer the boring truth to the exciting fun and games and can we tell the difference?'

To answer the original question, yes we do need a clearing house, a big fat sensitive nose for the squashy turds all over the floor. But by what criteria do we decide? There are so many 'unknown unknowns' and to quote Hoagland, 'The truth is different at every level'.


1159 for me you have hit the rather nasty nail squarely and vigorously on its head! Excellent post in my opinion, my only point of contention would be your 50% estimation of the truth to BS ratio. I personally see it being much higher. When I see some of the stuff that people are too ready, willing, even eager to believe it gives me pause. Just because you want something to be true because it sounds cool and is better than your rather mundane existence doesn't necessarily make it so. Compound this with the fact that the very act of observing reality causes it to behave differently and you are left chasing something that might not actually exist from a human perspective i.e. truth...........

[Fructedor]

Hi Fred

Thanks for your response. I don’t feel personally concerned by the epithet ‘two-faced’ since everything I posted on Nexus concerning PA I also copied here. My posting name there is the same as here. It was the narrow view principle of ‘true to my school’ that I questioned – forums like these are about education and exchange, and they’re open to all. Restrictive ‘loyalty’ to one or the other doesn’t come into it, in my opinion. We all visit all sorts of sites and probably post on more than a few – what’s wrong with that? And why would anyone post or thank, or indeed refrain from either, in fear of the mod reaction if what they’re posting is truly what they have to say? Assuming we’re not concerned here with blatant dumb hypocrisy – posting over there that Avalon is **** and then coming here and saying it’s the bee’s knees – I’m not aware of any of that, personally. Thanking posts doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with what’s said, either, does it? You can thank people for making you think differently too, or because you respect their honesty or humour.

I went to Nexus to try and understand the split and the mod exodus, to try and look at both sides, and I’d bet many others did the same. Now there are problems for which Inelia was the catalyst, and I wanted to see what had happened there too, particularly since some of the banned were people I appreciated. Some of them were really angry, and said so. That’s one thing, it’s an understandable reaction – random ****-slinging doesn’t really help anyone, though, and there was a little of that, unfortunately. Ignore it.

Also, moderating is probably a time-consuming and difficult job, trying to keep content pertinent and respectful, which avoids us wallowing in YouTube-style ravings. The problem comes from what appear to be changing guide-lines for forum behaviour – whether or not censorship is being applied – that is a point worth addressing I think.

Anyway, Fred, do it however you want – I’m just saying that ‘either/or’ doesn’t seem an effective solution.

[K626]

I thought life was complicated enough.........!
I never trust my mind!

I shall now denounce my own buttocks.

Get with the denouncing bro. :p

I denounce Greybeard. Hiding behind that calm and spiritual exterior is a monster and a wrecking ball to any forum he visits. :couch2:

Peace

K

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=enfoldedblue;207577]Ha ha ha....For a minute I was wondering who this 'ninopoo' was. Anyway I try not to get too involved in the political side of these forums. I like avalon because there are a lot of interesting topics raised in the threads and a lot of knowledgeable people responding. I am also a member of nexus for the same reasons. I see no reason to pick sides and pledge allegiance to one site. I figure the more information I have access to the better. I think everyone should be free to express themselves however, and wherever, they feel appropriate
I find it very sad that a situation has been created that makes people afraid to post their true thoughts....for me this completely goes against what I thought this forum stood for. Probably I am naive, but if I had the choice I would go for a completely lasser-faire approach, rather than a heavy handed mod approach. Sure we might have some nasty posts, and some feelings might get hurt, but as long as there were enough good, loving, aware people on board I believe things would ultimately work themselves out. We have been taught that without authority there would be chaos, but I feel that this is 'old paradigm'. Sure, as we learn to step away from authority there will inevitably be teething issues, but how else are people going to learn that an open, repectful response is more effective and constructive than spewing vitriole?

LOVE ALLways, c

Lol enfoldedblue, I agree with you look this really doesn’t apply to you or people like you, I can tell from your post you’re a sweet person thirsty for knowledge and wisdom. The mods aren’t going to ban or restrict what you say be it on Avalon or another site or wherever you may say it. It’s the “hell raisers” they are trying to eliminate.

[Lord Sidious]

Why should anyone be scared posting, provided its sensible and honest post away.

No one should. I posted a question to a persistant poster of anti-western propoganda from questionable sources and had one "member" personally attack me and my motivation and accusing me of being a troll. It just wasnt worth the hassle and unpleasantness....

I did indeed post that.
All anyone has to do is look at your post history.
And I stand by every letter and syllable I posted.

Oh God....its the playground bully....!
You dont like it when people take an opposing view do you?
I find it amusing that someone who is lost in the fiction of Star Wars should be so nasty, its just a movie you know.

http://www.aiohq.com/images/nathan/StarWars.jpg

Actually, I don't mind if people disagree, I don't like trolls and disruptors, hence me keeping an eye on you.
If I am wrong about you, show me.
But you can't, can you?

[steve_a]

Hi Chicodoodoo,

You first sentence in your post is very, very accurate. Avalon is the "champion of truth", because the truth will always come out in the end. There is only one truth, it is unique (I love the truth).
If the truth is posted from the get go, then it will never get questioned, as it will always prevail. If doodoo (nothing to do with your name, I just thought it would be a polite way of saying sh**!) was posted, eventually the real truth will come out. It always does. I could claim to be something special or something extraordinary, but somebody, somewhere will test me and find out if I'm telling the truth. When I slip up, then the truth will appear for what it's worth. We all need to remember, there is always somebody out there who knows more than we do. There is always somebody out there that knows who we are.

There's no point in banning people because they post on other forums, even if their point of view is contrary to what they post on this forum. This action won't prevent the real truth to be known. Of course, I don't understand the point of postingone side of the coin here and the other side of the coin there (another forum), as just that act wouldn't give the poster credibility.

With everything that has gone on in this forum and the comings and goings of members, unless I'm mistaken I probably am the oldest member (not counting Bill) still skulking around here. My quest is to find the truth and to question everything that has the aroma of cattle and I'm never frightened to do so. If the truth doesn't come out in one forum it will come out in another (not that I'm saying here is never telling the truth). The point I'm trying to make is that truth is supreme and there are two ways of it being found. Either by being told in the first place, or by somebody, somewhere debunking a lie and explaining the truth, with facts and data. Truth doesn't have a timeline, even if it takes years to rear it's head, it will do so in all it's glory.

Best regards,

Steve






We all know Project Avalon is a champion of truth. Whistle-blowers are proudly presented here to reveal the fraud and deception that damages us all. Subjects frowned upon by the mainstream media are openly discussed and hotly debated here. In keeping with that spirit of truth-seeking and open inquiry, it occurred to me that a thread dedicated to this activity could be useful. It could act as a clearinghouse or catalog for new inquiry into deception and fraud. We have the opportunity to be whistle-blowers ourselves right here in our own secure and safe haven!

Let me give you an example close to home. One of our members is operating under an obviously assumed name and could be an “agent provocateur”. I’m hesitant to reveal names here, as this is a very delicate matter, but the first part of his name means “little boy” in Spanish, and the second part means “excrement” in American slang. This “little boy excrement” may be pushing people’s buttons, stirring up discontent, evoking strong reactions, and publicly practicing dissent that could potentially embarrass other members. There is very strong evidence that he has actually “thanked” posts in external forums that could be considered divisive or disrespectful in nature. I happen to know from a very reliable but anonymous source that he has even refrained from thanking highly sensitive posts on external forums in order to preserve his own neck! This demonstrates a dangerous two-faced, back-stabbing attitude that calls into question his very integrity. Should not fraud and deception of this magnitude be publicly called into question? I propose this thread for that purpose. There may be other members at Avalon that need the spotlight of truth shined upon them as well. It is our duty to do so. Many of us have reincarnated here for that very purpose. We had best get on with it.

[Nairnia]

Actually, I don't mind if people disagree, I don't like trolls and disruptors, hence me keeping an eye on you.
If I am wrong about you, show me.
But you can't, can you?

So youre keeping an eye on me huh? From the Death Star no doubt :p
Seriously though, who the * do you think you are? I dont have to justify myself to you unless of course you are the Great Dark Lord of Avalon? And why should I to someone who is annonimous hiding behind a fantasy? Before you started your nonsense, I had a picture of me, my location and contact details on here, you chose to hide behind the mask of a movie.

But to those who know nothing about the situation your darkness caused I will say this:

I have worked in Fort Meade, better known as the NSA (and other locations under their guise UMD etc)
I have worked at many military bases throughout the USA (USAF and Army)
I am a student of the Esoteric.
Now add those credentials together.
Perhaps I know a lot more than I will ever admit but I will say this.... one of my posts in March warned of an event in the area of Japan which was going to be caused by the mass consciousness who were living in fear of the "great doom" (2012 etc)

I am not political, have no affiliations with any government entities, I am a free thinker and free spirit, one of the good guys. Maybe even a whistleblower in waiting?

Draw your own conclusion.

So who are you? Will you step out from behind your guise or will you continue to hide occasionally throwing bombs at those who dare to question?

As you said...."if I am wrong about you, show me."

Over to you..... :frusty:

[Lord Sidious]

Actually, I don't mind if people disagree, I don't like trolls and disruptors, hence me keeping an eye on you.
If I am wrong about you, show me.
But you can't, can you?

So youre keeping an eye on me huh? From the Death Star no doubt :p
Seriously though, who the * do you think you are? I dont have to justify myself to you unless of course you are the Great Dark Lord of Avalon? And why should I to someone who is annonimous hiding behind a fantasy? Before you started your nonsense, I had a picture of me, my location and contact details on here, you chose to hide behind the mask of a movie.

But to those who know nothing about the situation your darkness caused I will say this:

I have worked in Fort Meade, better known as the NSA (and other locations under their guise UMD etc)
I have worked at many military bases throughout the USA (USAF and Army)
I am a student of the Esoteric.
Now add those credentials together.
Perhaps I know a lot more than I will ever admit but I will say this.... one of my posts in March warned of an event in the area of Japan which was going to be caused by the mass consciousness who were living in fear of the "great doom" (2012 etc)

I am not political, have no affiliations with any government entities, I am a free thinker and free spirit, one of the good guys. Maybe even a whistleblower in waiting?

Draw your own conclusion.

So who are you? Will you step out from behind your guise or will you continue to hide occasionally throwing bombs at those who dare to question?

As you said...."if I am wrong about you, show me."

Over to you..... :frusty:

My ID is on this site, my name and location.
My name and location is known to many here.
If you are as good as you say, you can find it.
And when I say show me that I am wrong, your posts betray your intent.
You have some of merit, but a lot are nothing than one line ''rebuttals'' of other peoples posts.
I will make you this promise, if I am wrong about you, then I will apologise and acknowledge that.
Is that fair enough?

[DoubleHelix]

:popcorn: :fencing: :argue:

[Nairnia]

And when I say show me that I am wrong, your posts betray your intent.
I will make you this promise, if I am wrong about you, then I will apologise and acknowledge that.
Is that fair enough?

How can you know my intent? And no thats not fair enough, I do not recognise your authority to sit in judgement of me. And after your previous personal attacks, I think you owe me an apology anyway.
But I wont hold my breath..... I'll just sit back for a while :D

[Lord Sidious]

And when I say show me that I am wrong, your posts betray your intent.
I will make you this promise, if I am wrong about you, then I will apologise and acknowledge that.
Is that fair enough?

How can you know my intent? And no thats not fair enough, I do not recognise your authority to sit in judgement of me. And after your previous personal attacks, I think you owe me an apology anyway.
But I wont hold my breath..... I'll just sit back for a while :D

I am someone who cares about the site. As you know, we have had a bit of upheaval recently.
And if I were attacking you, how come the mods didn't remove the posts or warn me?
At this point, you won't get an apology, but if I am wrong, then you will.

[Flash]

I must say something, because I am traumatized since yesterday

As this is seemingly a new integrity thread, looking like integrity has a life of its own,

I must confess something

Chicodoodoo by giving in an anagram (almost) the significance of his name traumatized me ;)

Chico, meaning the kid, el nino, this I knew from my spanish speaking side,

Dodoo in French is written doudou, with the same pronunciation, and it is the small comfort blanket toddlers carry around everywhere,

I had associated in my mind Chico, el nino, the toddler, carrying his comfort blanket around everywhere, and made a psychological transfer,

Therefore, I always had the feeling like hugging Chicodoodoo because of this picture in my mind, very warm, motherly feeling,

But, all of a sudden, the little comfort blanket changed and it became excrements, I was in shock ! :confused:

So Chico, el nino, was now carrying his sh..t around, :(

This did not have the same impact on me at all,

My vision changed suddenly, I am traumatized, ROLF

I definitly prefer my first transfer, and I am reverting to it, as I don't thing Chico is carrying sh.. t around, and I prefer hugging someone clean (integrity helping)

Please to all take this post lightly, it is to be fun, but what I am saying is true, I did have these images in my mind.

We should make a thread on images and associations that avatars and names evoke on this forum.

Love to all,

Flash

[Moonwish]

Ha ha ha....For a minute I was wondering who this 'ninopoo' was. Anyway I try not to get too involved in the political side of these forums. I like avalon because there are a lot of interesting topics raised in the threads and a lot of knowledgeable people responding. I am also a member of nexus for the same reasons. I see no reason to pick sides and pledge allegiance to one site. I figure the more information I have access to the better. I think everyone should be free to express themselves however, and wherever, they feel appropriate. I find it very sad that a situation has been created that makes people afraid to post their true thoughts....for me this completely goes against what I thought this forum stood for. Probably I am naive, but if I had the choice I would go for a completely lasser-faire approach, rather than a heavy handed mod approach. Sure we might have some nasty posts, and some feelings might get hurt, but as long as there were enough good, loving, aware people on board I believe things would ultimately work themselves out. We have been taught that without authority there would be chaos, but I feel that this is 'old paradigm'. Sure, as we learn to step away from authority there will inevitably be teething issues, but how else are people going to learn that an open, repectful response is more effective and constructive than spewing vitriole?

LOVE ALLways, c

I think enfoldedblue has said the gist of the matter well here. Why should we "limit" ourselves to one website or another? Isn't the point to gain as much useful information as possible to connect the dots. This isn't a religion--it is a website. Though it is helpful for us to have a community, it is silly to think that is all there is. That's just another dogma we don't need or want to walk. Why is ego so deeply embedded in an intellectual forum. I thought the "point" of a persona was aesthetic distance. Let's try living up to that. I love many of you (not all) and have watched you for years, but I must say I'm tired of the "me me me" stuff that seems to be the main thread of all threads. This is why (IMHO) Lord Sidious refers to the members, and the public at large, as "nuggets" (Pray correct me if I'm wrong, M'Lord)

[Lord Sidious]

This is why (IMHO) Lord Sidious refers to the members, and the public at large, as "nuggets" (Pray correct me if I'm wrong, M'Lord)

Sorry, you need to be an initiated member of the Sith Order to find out what that is about. :p

[manny]

:mod: Narnia and lord sith need some:peace: :grouphug::thumb:

[yaksuit]

Sometimes I thank a post because it is "useful" as opposed to thanking a post because I "agree" with it.

cheers,
yak

[Fred259]

Thanks for your response. I don’t feel personally concerned by the epithet ‘two-faced’ since everything I posted on Nexus concerning PA I also copied here. My posting name there is the same as here. It was the narrow view principle of ‘true to my school’ that I questioned – forums like these are about education and exchange, and they’re open to all. [/QUOTE]

Fine Fructedor, I understand, so whats the issue then?


Restrictive ‘loyalty’ to one or the other doesn’t come into it, in my opinion. We all visit all sorts of sites and probably post on more than a few – what’s wrong with that?

Nothing I agree.


And why would anyone post or thank, or indeed refrain from either, in fear of the mod reaction if what they’re posting is truly what they have to say?

I agree. However you need to take responsibility for your actions.


Assuming we’re not concerned here with blatant dumb hypocrisy – posting over there that Avalon is **** and then coming here and saying it’s the bee’s knees.

It would seem that members are frightened from posting for fear of being banned. I don’t think this is the case, its an illusion.



I’m not aware of any of that, personally

I think that’s a little disingenuous. I mentioned earlier I visited Richards’s site last night for the first time , and so I don’t see how you can say that. Frankly I was appalled.


Thanking posts doesn’t necessarily mean you agree with what’s said, either, does it?

No. I think it does.


You can thank people for making you think differently too, or because you respect their honesty or humour.

You can but don’t expect everyone to agree with you, especially so if it’s disrespectful and or has a negative effect on Avalon.


I went to Nexus to try and understand the split and the mod exodus, to try and look at both sides, and I’d bet many others did the same.


Bill told the forum why this happened. Fundamentally the previous mods demanded the removal of another mod. Bill declined and they resigned or were retired. IMHO he was right; you can’t have cults and bullying. This is what destroys forums.

I also suggested that stopping the mods posting “ideology” would be a good thing. The mods job is to moderate and manage the forum not dictate or influence posts. This way the member’s forum remains honest and freethinking.



Now there are problems for which Inelia was the catalyst, and I wanted to see what had happened there too, particularly since some of the banned were people I appreciated.

What is the problem with Inelia? How could this be resolved on Richards site? Surely it can only be resolved here. I don’t know Inelia or her message. If her message is spiritual I would imagine it will have foundation and be long lasting. If it’s new age, I would suggest not. Did Jane Fonda and John Lennon really change the world?
They come and go don’t they, just like Charles. What don’t you like about Inelia message?


Maybe Inelia should also be stopped from posting “ideology” as with the mods. I posted yesterday saying it was wrong for Charles and John Lear in my opinion to have full and free access to the forum. Teachers should provide the information and wisdom that can then be discussed on the member’s forum. This way the forum remains free from subversion. What would have happened if Charles had been a member of the KKK?


Some of them were really angry, and said so. That’s one thing, it’s an understandable reaction – random ****-slinging doesn’t really help anyone, though, and there was a little of that, unfortunately. Ignore it.

I agree. But these issues can only be resolved on Avalon. Going to other sites just inflames the situation which is precisely what’s happened.


Also, moderating is probably a time-consuming and difficult job, trying to keep content pertinent and respectful, which avoids us wallowing in YouTube-style ravings.

It is, but it needn’t be. One of the best features about Avalon is that it’s a closed forum. Therefore it can’t be subverted. The “hell raisers” are on the outside looking through the bars wanting inside, yet they cant. So the moderating job should be quite easy. Essentially we should self police the forum.

This is what happens at Bilderberg, CFR and these other organisations. You can’t infiltrate them because they are a closed society. We should do the same.


The problem comes from what appear to be changing guide-lines for forum behaviour – whether or not censorship is being applied – that is a point worth addressing I think.

Forum “standards” I think may be a better word.

I have never been censored, and I often go against the forum opinion, so I don’t see this as a problem. I still haven’t forgiven Ilie for his China war remark, however that’s another matter, he won’t ban me or censor my post for disagreeing with him unless he works for the “Securitate” the Romanian secret police….lol…so really its all back to how we conduct ourselves isn’t it…

[Chicodoodoo]

{Don't fear the reaper} ninoplops this is for you

Thanks !!! One of my all-time favorites ....

[The One]

There is so much diss info/miss info its hard to take it all in at the moment.

Hoaxed or not,Fraud or not or debunked or not there is always going to be some people more opionated than others thats just the way us humans are.
I tend to do alot of reaserch re the above and if i cant say its hoaxed,fraud or i cant debunk it then to me it becomes unexplained.Some will make an opinion without doing any research

As per our history books just because somebody said this and that happened and that is written down dosent mean i beleive it.

We all have a path to take


The One xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Fred259]

There is so much diss info/miss info its hard to take it all in at the moment.

Hoaxed or not,Fraud or not or debunked or not there is always going to be some people more opionated than others thats just the way us humans are.
I tend to do alot of reaserch re the above and if i cant say its hoaxed,fraud or i cant debunk it then to me it becomes unexplained.Some will make an opinion without doing any research

As per our history books just because somebody said this and that happened and that is written down dosent mean i beleive it.

We all have a path to take


The One xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I agree, just 15% of the former KGB spying involved the James Bond sexy spying Hollywood style scenario.

85% is subversion, mis and dis information that has changed society forever. Now the criminals in the Banking / Military Industrial Complex control every aspect of society.

Watching the Royal wedding with my children yesterday the hymns and even the Lords Prayer were alien to them. Why is this? Because they have taken and removed religious education from schools and replaced it with cultural Marxism.

[ROMANWKT]

Hi there
Just to let you know that this thread is Childish Crap (pun intended)


Sorry Chicodoodoo I couldn't help myself (apologies)
regards to you
roman

[The One]

•2.5 billion people lack access to improved sanitation
•1 billion children are deprived of one or more services essential to survival and development
•148 million under 5s in developing regions are underweight for their age
•101 million children are not attending primary school, with more girls than boys missing out
•22 million infants are not protected from diseases by routine immunization
•8 million children worldwide died before their 5th birthday in 2009
•4 million newborns worldwide are dying in the first month of life
•2 million children under 15 are living with HIV
•>500,000 women die each year from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth

Over 22,000 children die every day around the world.

That is equivalent to:

•1 child dying every 4 seconds
•15 children dying every minute
•A 2010 Haiti earthquake occurring almost every 10 days
•A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring almost every 10 days
•An Iraq-scale death toll every 18–43 days
•Just under 8.1 million children dying every year
•Some 88 million children dying between 2000 and 2009


The silent killers are poverty, hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. Despite the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage

Need i say anymore

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Fructedor]

Fred I propose we don’t waste time talking in circles.

I questioned your original statement that posting on other threads was wrong – now you seem to agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. Great. And may we assume that we’re all capable of taking responsibility for our actions?

You seem to be saying that fear of mod reprisals for posts or thanks is illusory. I agree.
Clearly we disagree that thanking posts means that you’re in agreement with the opinion expressed – as Yaksuit pointed out, the word ‘useful’ is engaged in forum thanks – I thank posts for a variety of reasons, and I do not agree with all of them. And no-one’s obliged to agree with our thanks.

I don’t see PA being any healthier by adopting a Bilderberger / CFR structure, attempting impregnability. Keep it as open as possible I think, so that people can come and go as they please – we’ll all be richer for it. My opinion.

Best wishes

Fructedor

[Chicodoodoo]

I had associated in my mind Chico, el nino, the toddler, carrying his comfort blanket around everywhere, and made a psychological transfer,

Therefore, I always had the feeling like hugging Chicodoodoo because of this picture in my mind, very warm, motherly feeling

Awww, aren't you sweet! To think I sacrificed all those hugs in pursuit of truth and integrity. J'ai presque des regrettes maintenant...

I love your mental image, Flash. Please hold onto it, as it is much closer to the truth than the image I painted, which I of course created to add to the power of the post (plus it tickled my funny bone).

[Dennis Leahy]

•2.5 billion people lack access to improved sanitation
•1 billion children are deprived of one or more services essential to survival and development
•148 million under 5s in developing regions are underweight for their age
•101 million children are not attending primary school, with more girls than boys missing out
•22 million infants are not protected from diseases by routine immunization
•8 million children worldwide died before their 5th birthday in 2009
•4 million newborns worldwide are dying in the first month of life
•2 million children under 15 are living with HIV
•>500,000 women die each year from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth

Over 22,000 children die every day around the world.

That is equivalent to:

•1 child dying every 4 seconds
•15 children dying every minute
•A 2010 Haiti earthquake occurring almost every 10 days
•A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring almost every 10 days
•An Iraq-scale death toll every 18–43 days
•Just under 8.1 million children dying every year
•Some 88 million children dying between 2000 and 2009


The silent killers are poverty, hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. Despite the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage

Need i say anymore

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks, "The One", for reminding us where our focus is most needed.

Dennis

[Teakai]

There are so many 'unknown unknowns' and to quote Hoagland, 'The truth is different at every level'.

Hi 1159, didn't Hoagland say 'the lie is different at every level'?

I thought he did, but I could be wrong. Big difference between the two, though as truth can only ever be truth.
:)

[Fred259]

I questioned your original statement that posting on other threads was wrong – now you seem to agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. Great. And may we assume that we’re all capable of taking responsibility for our actions?

That happens to be my view I posted at the time saying that I thought it was wrong, and many didn’t agree. I’m not upset about it; rather I had a bad feeling of how it would end up. I’m not saying that it’s wrong to be members of other websites but given the history posting on Richards site about Avalon I think is plainly wrong. I don’t expect you to agree with me.


You seem to be saying that fear of mod reprisals for posts or thanks is illusory. I agree.
Good.


Clearly we disagree that thanking posts means that you’re in agreement with the opinion expressed – as Yaksuit pointed out, the word ‘useful’ is engaged in forum thanks – I thank posts for a variety of reasons, and I do not agree with all of them. And no-one’s obliged to agree with our thanks.

Thank whoever you want whenever you want, I dont really have an opinion on it

However we were talking about Richards site. If people post BS about Avalon and you go and thank the post, then I think regardless of how you want to “spin the thanks” it’s duplicitous. But listen I’m maybe a bit older than you so call me a bit old fashioned. My daughter does.. all the time I might add!


I don’t see PA being any healthier by adopting a Bilderberger / CFR structure, attempting impregnability.

Yes, obviously however I was talking about subversion and pointing out the benefits of having a closed society / forum. It’s not really closed, it’s just the expression closely regulated would perhaps be a better explanation.


Keep it as open as possible I think, so that people can come and go as they please –we’ll all be richer for it. My opinion.

No I strongly disagree, if you do that you end up with all the mis / dis agents who seek to destroy the work going on. Keep it the way it is. France and Britain are open societies; look at the complete mess we are in. Russia is a closed society, so is Switzerland look how well they are doing…that’s what I mean really…

[Teakai]

No its not, but one thing the military does do for the individual, and I’ve been in the air force is that it teaches you to be disciplined, structured and above all to be loyal.



Hi Fred - loyal to whom? And is it such a good thing? I can understand loyalty when it is freely and willingly given, but when it is required or demanded, then surely one must sacrifice their own reason in order to give it.

[Teakai]

Respecting all points of view
Chris

Hi Greybeard - I wonder, are all points of view worthy of respect? I get respecting the right to voice a point of view, but surely not all viewpoints are worthy of being respected.
:)

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=Fred259;207524]No its not, but one thing the military does do for the individual, and I’ve been in the air force is that it teaches you to be disciplined, structured and above all to be loyal.




Hi Fred - loyal to whom?

To your oath.


And is it such a good thing? I can understand loyalty when it is freely and willingly given, but when it is required or demanded, then surely one must sacrifice their own reason in order to give it.

We are talking about the military. No one forces you to join up…

[Teakai]

[QUOTE]
To your oath.

Who is that oath to? The Queen?


We are talking about the military. No one forces you to join up…

Not yet. But we may well lose that right, and any we have left if the military and the police all stay loyal to their oaths instead of waking up and thinking about the world they really want to live in rather than the world that's being made by use of their unquestioned loyalty.

Unquestioned loyalty - or reason. Which would you really prefer in a person?

[greybeard]

Respecting all points of view
Chris

Hi Greybeard - I wonder, are all points of view worthy of respect? I get respecting the right to voice a point of view, but surely not all viewpoints are worthy of being respected.
:)

I will rephrase that
Respecting all people and their right to hold any opinion.
Most people are not familiar with Namaste which really sums up what I mean -- I am also saying im not claiming to be right.
If I were "them" with their life experience and conditioning I would probably have the same opinion as they have.
I tend to think in essence and context rather than content.
So I believe that on the whole people have the best intention

You have made a valid point though in that all opinions cant be respected but the person can be.

Chris

[Teakai]

I must say something, because I am traumatized since yesterday

As this is seemingly a new integrity thread, looking like integrity has a life of its own,

I must confess something

Chicodoodoo by giving in an anagram (almost) the significance of his name traumatized me ;)

Chico, meaning the kid, el nino, this I knew from my spanish speaking side,

Dodoo in French is written doudou, with the same pronunciation, and it is the small comfort blanket toddlers carry around everywhere,

I had associated in my mind Chico, el nino, the toddler, carrying his comfort blanket around everywhere, and made a psychological transfer,

Therefore, I always had the feeling like hugging Chicodoodoo because of this picture in my mind, very warm, motherly feeling,

But, all of a sudden, the little comfort blanket changed and it became excrements, I was in shock ! :confused:

So Chico, el nino, was now carrying his sh..t around, :(

This did not have the same impact on me at all,

My vision changed suddenly, I am traumatized, ROLF

I definitly prefer my first transfer, and I am reverting to it, as I don't thing Chico is carrying sh.. t around, and I prefer hugging someone clean (integrity helping)

Please to all take this post lightly, it is to be fun, but what I am saying is true, I did have these images in my mind.

We should make a thread on images and associations that avatars and names evoke on this forum.

Love to all,

Flash

:lol: He should never have blown his cover, Flash. I knew nothing good would come of it. :)

[Fred259]

Here you go Teaks, this is loyalty Aussie style.

An Australian SAS trooper who deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire in a clash with the Taleban in order to save the lives of wounded colleagues today became the first of his countrymen to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years.

His VC, the highest honour for gallantry in the face of enemy fire.

The George Cross GC is awarded for bravery but not in the face of the enemy.

I remember him being interviewed by the BBC, and essentially it was a hop, skip and jump over open ground to recover his wounded colleague, while taking inbound fire directly in the face of the enemy.




7129

Australian Mark Davidson VC at Westminster Abbey.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article5532804.ece

[Teakai]

I will rephrase that
Respecting all people and their right to hold any opinion.
Most people are not familiar with Namaste which really sums up what I mean -- I am also saying im not claiming to be right.
If I were "them" with their life experience and conditioning I would probably have the same opinion as they have.
I tend to think in essence and context rather than content.

You have made a valid point though in that all opinions cant be respected but the person can be.

Chris

The soul within the person.

YAARGH, now I feel like I'm being pedantic, but I'm not really. Ego/the illusion does not warrant undue respect.
Porridge definitely does, but not ego.

We are all soul - only some are unaware. :) And if one must be asked to feel respect, then is it truly respect? Does respect not come naturally on the basis of awareness? Without the awareness is it not simply demanded protocol? And as such is this a good thing? Does it encourage conscious expansion or shut it down?

Sort of the same as the point someone made earlier - does one learn how to communicate with reason if one is banned if they don't do so? Where is the room to learn?



So I believe that on the whole people have the best intention

Just to add - I think humans have a choice. We are dual. We are spiritual and physical beings. We can choose good or choose ill. Choose the illusion or choose the truth. Choose conscience or choose desire.

So best intentions are relevant to the focus. Is it the best for them as ego, or is it the best for them as soul.
If it is the best for them as ego and others will suffer for it - then why is that worthy of respect?

[Teakai]

Here you go Teaks, this is loyalty Aussie style.

An Australian SAS trooper who deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire in a clash with the Taleban in order to save the lives of wounded colleagues today became the first of his countrymen to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years.

His VC, the highest honour for gallantry in the face of enemy fire.

The George Cross GC is awarded for bravery but not in the face of the enemy.

I remember him being interviewed by the BBC, and essentially it was a hop, skip and jump over open ground to recover his wounded colleague, while taking inbound fire directly in the face of the enemy.



I get where you're coming from, Fred. 'They' feed us all this mateship propaganda and use our natural inclination to want to protect those we care about in order to have us fight their wars for them.
And we do it.
Because we believe the lie.

If we all knew that we were fighting so the rich could get richer and have more control over us - then would we do it?

Unquestioning loyalty and indoctrination is important to those in the seat of power.
Reasoning is our own personal protection against it.

[greybeard]

I will rephrase that
Respecting all people and their right to hold any opinion.
Most people are not familiar with Namaste which really sums up what I mean -- I am also saying im not claiming to be right.
If I were "them" with their life experience and conditioning I would probably have the same opinion as they have.
I tend to think in essence and context rather than content.
So I believe that on the whole people have the best intention

You have made a valid point though in that all opinions cant be respected but the person can be.

Chris

The soul within the person.

YAARGH, now I feel like I'm being pedantic, but I'm not really. Ego/the illusion does not warrant undue respect.
Porridge definitely does, but not ego.

We are all soul - only some are unaware. :) And if one must be asked to feel respect, then is it truly respect? Does respect not come naturally on the basis of awareness? Without the awareness is it not simply demanded protocol? And as such is this a good thing? Does it encourage conscious expansion or shut it down?

Sort of the same as the point someone made earlier - does one learn how to communicate with reason if one is banned if they don't do so? Where is the room to learn?

Depends how far you want to go.
You could say there is only one soul and that is Creator/totality all of it.
Our true self has no wants needs or desires and is complete = One without a second.
Its a subject for the "Enlightenment: Ego what is it? how to transcend" thread

So its out of context here really and therefore open to misunderstanding

Namaste

[Fred259]

Here you go Teaks, this is loyalty Aussie style.

An Australian SAS trooper who deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire in a clash with the Taleban in order to save the lives of wounded colleagues today became the first of his countrymen to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years.

His VC, the highest honour for gallantry in the face of enemy fire.

The George Cross GC is awarded for bravery but not in the face of the enemy.

I remember him being interviewed by the BBC, and essentially it was a hop, skip and jump over open ground to recover his wounded colleague, while taking inbound fire directly in the face of the enemy.



I get where you're coming from, Fred. 'They' feed us all this mateship propaganda and use our natural inclination to want to protect those we care about in order to have us fight their wars for them.
And we do it.
Because we believe the lie.

If we all knew that we were fighting so the rich could get richer and have more control over us - then would we do it?

Unquestioning loyalty and indoctrination is important to those in the seat of power.
Reasoning is our own personal protection against it.

Whatever….

I’m responding to your earlier question with me regarding the military oath. I’m not getting involved in a discussion on the Queen and Australian etc etc

I respect the man for his actions, regardless of his nationality.

However the procedure as I understand is that Australian Army and the prime minister make these decisions in Camberra. Because it was the VC, yes they consulted the Queen and a medal for his bravery was prepared. I understand he received this along with his family from the Queen at Buckingham Palace.

Appreciate they don’t hand these out every day.

[Teakai]

Depends how far you want to go.
You could say there is only one soul and that is Creator/totality all of it.
Our true self has no wants needs or desires and is complete = One without a second.
Its a subject for the "Enlightenment: Ego what is it? how to transcend" thread

So its out of context here really and therefore open to misunderstanding

Namaste

I'm not sure that it's not appropriate here, Greybeard. Why is it necessary to respect that which is not worthy?

I see us as souls evolving rather than the done deal. We can make mistakes. We can go bad on the plan we set out for ourselves. I don't respect the policeman who beats up an innocent victim. But I know there's a soul in that person - it is the same essence as my soul. It doesn't require respect.

So - what is it we're respecting? And if we have to force ourselves to do it or make a conscious effort to do it - is it really respect or faking respect?

[Teakai]

Whatever….

I’m responding to your earlier question with me regarding the military oath. I’m not getting involved in a discussion on the Queen and Australian etc etc

I respect the man for his actions, regardless of his nationality.

However the procedure as I understand is that Australian Army and the prime minister make these decisions in Camberra. Because it was the VC, yes they consulted the Queen and a medal for his bravery was prepared. I understand he received this along with his family from the Queen at Buckingham Palace.

Appreciate they don’t hand these out every day.

I think maybe you're missing the point, Fred. It was that loyalty without reason is not necessarily a good thing. It seemed to me by a comment you made that you think it is.

Why? (no pressure, if you don't feel like going there.)

[greybeard]

Sorry Teakai its tomorrow here12.50am Im to tired for intelligent reply --am I ever lol

I believe the soul is pure and does not need to evolve.
What is moving from self to Self evolves to know itself.
The Self of the "other" is the same divine energy as inhabits this Self and I acknowledge the Divinity in the other.
Self is egoless -- self has varying degrees of ego depending on how far the self has evolved.
When enlightenment happens there is no "person" left to claim that state
Best I can do
Good night may your life be filled with joy

Chris

[Nasu]

Here you go Teaks, this is loyalty Aussie style.

An Australian SAS trooper who deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire in a clash with the Taleban in order to save the lives of wounded colleagues today became the first of his countrymen to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years.

His VC, the highest honour for gallantry in the face of enemy fire.

The George Cross GC is awarded for bravery but not in the face of the enemy.

I remember him being interviewed by the BBC, and essentially it was a hop, skip and jump over open ground to recover his wounded colleague, while taking inbound fire directly in the face of the enemy.



I get where you're coming from, Fred. 'They' feed us all this mateship propaganda and use our natural inclination to want to protect those we care about in order to have us fight their wars for them.
And we do it.
Because we believe the lie.

If we all knew that we were fighting so the rich could get richer and have more control over us - then would we do it?

Unquestioning loyalty and indoctrination is important to those in the seat of power.
Reasoning is our own personal protection against it.

Most soldiers fight for their buddies at their sides not for any other reason. Like Sun Zu said, put your men in a situation where they have to fight to survive and they will fight, put their backs to the edge of the cliff. This is what we do with our young men and women, don't blame the players, blame the game..N

[DevilPigeon]

.
.
Most soldiers fight for their buddies at their sides not for any other reason. Like Sun Zu said, put your men in a situation where they have to fight to survive and they will fight, put their backs to the edge of the cliff. This is what we do with our young men and women, don't blame the players, blame the game..N

As Einstein said (paraphrasing) - "The pioneers of a warless world are the young men that refuse military service". David Icke says exactly the same - "What if there was a war and no-one turned up?"

I know it's not as simple as that, and I'm not trivialising the issue, it will take time... But without a start it won't happen.

[Fred259]

Whatever….

I’m responding to your earlier question with me regarding the military oath. I’m not getting involved in a discussion on the Queen and Australian etc etc

I respect the man for his actions, regardless of his nationality.

However the procedure as I understand is that Australian Army and the prime minister make these decisions in Camberra. Because it was the VC, yes they consulted the Queen and a medal for his bravery was prepared. I understand he received this along with his family from the Queen at Buckingham Palace.

Appreciate they don’t hand these out every day.

I think maybe you're missing the point, Fred. It was that loyalty without reason is not necessarily a good thing. It seemed to me by a comment you made that you think it is.

Why? (no pressure, if you don't feel like going there.)


The meaning Teaks has been lost in the thread.

The previous member posted. “ This isn’t the army”

And I responded,

“No its not, but one thing the military does do for the individual, and I’ve been in the air force is that it teaches you to be disciplined, structured and above all to be loyal”.

So we were talking about discipline and loyalty in the military but it could equally be in a general context Loyal to your employer, loyal to your wife, loyal to your faith etc.

Now you are saying “loyalty without reason is not necessarily a good thing”.

Clearly we are all responsible for our own actions and beliefs, and if one has an appropriate moral compass and you decide to serve in the military, choices have to be made. This is not forced on the individual. The possible consequences are known in advance.

In the marital situation mmmmm this is an interesting one I don’t think women in general would agree with your “loyalty without reason concept” It’s an interesting one. I have to tell you Teaks, in my experience it’s demanded and is no negotiable.

What’s on your mind, What does loyalty without reason mean with you?

[Fred259]

.
.
Most soldiers fight for their buddies at their sides not for any other reason. Like Sun Zu said, put your men in a situation where they have to fight to survive and they will fight, put their backs to the edge of the cliff. This is what we do with our young men and women, don't blame the players, blame the game..N

As Einstein said (paraphrasing) - "The pioneers of a warless world are the young men that refuse military service". David Icke says exactly the same - "What if there was a war and no-one turned up?"

I know it's not as simple as that, and I'm not trivialising the issue, it will take time... But without a start it won't happen.

Leaving Einstein aside, David is really coming from an extreme New Age prospective IMHO, and really some of these views and opinions are I would suggest from cloud Cuckoo land.

[DevilPigeon]

Leaving Einstein aside, David is really coming from an extreme New Age prospective IMHO, and really some of these views and opinions are I would suggest from cloud Cuckoo land.

I disagree. Admittedly some of David's ideas could be considered "alternative-alternative", but when it comes to stuff like this I think he's basically saying what the majority on here would be - ie be sceptical about government/power structures, know we're being lied to on a monumental worldwide basis, know that it's really us at the bottom of the pyramid that's holding it up... Know that peace is the target, but fighting for it is an absurdity destined to fail.

[Chicodoodoo]

As Einstein said (paraphrasing) - "The pioneers of a warless world are the young men that refuse military service".

I was one of those. My father was a successful military officer. I refused an offer for an education at the United States Air Force Academy. I refused to participate in the draft. I refused to fight in Vietnam. I refused to be loyal to a country that acted without reason, without morality, and without conscience. And I did so with good reason, good morality, and good conscience.

In retrospect, it is clear that it was not me that did not measure up. It was my country.

[mondaze]

were german soldiers showing loyalty whilst herding children into the showers?

[Nasu]

.
.
Most soldiers fight for their buddies at their sides not for any other reason. Like Sun Zu said, put your men in a situation where they have to fight to survive and they will fight, put their backs to the edge of the cliff. This is what we do with our young men and women, don't blame the players, blame the game..N

As Einstein said (paraphrasing) - "The pioneers of a warless world are the young men that refuse military service". David Icke says exactly the same - "What if there was a war and no-one turned up?"

I know it's not as simple as that, and I'm not trivialising the issue, it will take time... But without a start it won't happen.

Leaving Einstein aside, David is really coming from an extreme New Age prospective IMHO, and really some of these views and opinions are I would suggest from cloud Cuckoo land.

Ike aside, a society that does not at the very least consider defense, is setting itself up to be assimilated or conquered, whether or not the inhabitants are spiritually aware enough not to join up or join in. Look at what a wonderful place Tibet was for so many centuries, look how its inhabitants evolved spiritually and its location offered sound defense for so long, then along came China, who did not think as they did and were not put off by the mountains. Whether or not we turn up to fight, the war will continue to rage unabated around us.

As for Einstein, I leave it to his sage words - "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when we contemplate the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose your curiosity."

- Albert Einstein

[Lord Sidious]

I will rephrase that
Respecting all people and their right to hold any opinion.
Most people are not familiar with Namaste which really sums up what I mean -- I am also saying im not claiming to be right.
If I were "them" with their life experience and conditioning I would probably have the same opinion as they have.
I tend to think in essence and context rather than content.

You have made a valid point though in that all opinions cant be respected but the person can be.

Chris

The soul within the person.

YAARGH, now I feel like I'm being pedantic, but I'm not really. Ego/the illusion does not warrant undue respect.
Porridge definitely does, but not ego.

We are all soul - only some are unaware. :) And if one must be asked to feel respect, then is it truly respect? Does respect not come naturally on the basis of awareness? Without the awareness is it not simply demanded protocol? And as such is this a good thing? Does it encourage conscious expansion or shut it down?

Sort of the same as the point someone made earlier - does one learn how to communicate with reason if one is banned if they don't do so? Where is the room to learn?



So I believe that on the whole people have the best intention

Just to add - I think humans have a choice. We are dual. We are spiritual and physical beings. We can choose good or choose ill. Choose the illusion or choose the truth. Choose conscience or choose desire.

So best intentions are relevant to the focus. Is it the best for them as ego, or is it the best for them as soul.
If it is the best for them as ego and others will suffer for it - then why is that worthy of respect?

You don't need to apologise or excuse yourself for attempting to bring a finer comprehension of what you are saying.




Here you go Teaks, this is loyalty Aussie style.

An Australian SAS trooper who deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire in a clash with the Taleban in order to save the lives of wounded colleagues today became the first of his countrymen to win the Victoria Cross in 40 years.

His VC, the highest honour for gallantry in the face of enemy fire.

The George Cross GC is awarded for bravery but not in the face of the enemy.

I remember him being interviewed by the BBC, and essentially it was a hop, skip and jump over open ground to recover his wounded colleague, while taking inbound fire directly in the face of the enemy.



I get where you're coming from, Fred. 'They' feed us all this mateship propaganda and use our natural inclination to want to protect those we care about in order to have us fight their wars for them.
And we do it.
Because we believe the lie.

If we all knew that we were fighting so the rich could get richer and have more control over us - then would we do it?

Unquestioning loyalty and indoctrination is important to those in the seat of power.
Reasoning is our own personal protection against it.

Whatever….

I’m responding to your earlier question with me regarding the military oath. I’m not getting involved in a discussion on the Queen and Australian etc etc

I respect the man for his actions, regardless of his nationality.

However the procedure as I understand is that Australian Army and the prime minister make these decisions in Camberra. Because it was the VC, yes they consulted the Queen and a medal for his bravery was prepared. I understand he received this along with his family from the Queen at Buckingham Palace.

Appreciate they don’t hand these out every day.

It isn't the VC as you think, it is the VC For Australia.
They did away with the old one a while back.



As Einstein said (paraphrasing) - "The pioneers of a warless world are the young men that refuse military service".

I was one of those. My father was a successful military officer. I refused an offer for an education at the United States Air Force Academy. I refused to participate in the draft. I refused to fight in Vietnam. I refused to be loyal to a country that acted without reason, without morality, and without conscience. And I did so with good reason, good morality, and good conscience.

In retrospect, it is clear that it was not me that did not measure up. It was my country.

And I salute you for that.
Funny enough, it takes more courage to do what you did than to join.
I still count myself lucky that I never had to point a loaded weapon at anyone, blanks not included.

[Teakai]

Sorry Teakai its tomorrow here12.50am Im to tired for intelligent reply --am I ever lol

I believe the soul is pure and does not need to evolve.
What is moving from self to Self evolves to know itself.
The Self of the "other" is the same divine energy as inhabits this Self and I acknowledge the Divinity in the other.
Self is egoless -- self has varying degrees of ego depending on how far the self has evolved.
When enlightenment happens there is no "person" left to claim that state
Best I can do
Good night may your life be filled with joy

Chris

No worries, Greybeard - I know what you mean. It was 9am-ish and I was awake and on the go :) Now I'm winding down.

But now I have another question altogether.
If we are soul and soul is pure (which I agree with to a point) What do you think it's doing this human game plan for? What point is this earthly life if soul is complete and requires nothing and must know itself already?

I also think that the trips are about shedding the identity and uniting with the whole - only I don't see the earth incarnation as being even nearly close to that stage.

This is quite possibly a question better asked in the ego/enlightenment thread. So, I'll go and pop it there, also. :)

[Teakai]

Most soldiers fight for their buddies at their sides not for any other reason. Like Sun Zu said, put your men in a situation where they have to fight to survive and they will fight, put their backs to the edge of the cliff. This is what we do with our young men and women, don't blame the players, blame the game..N

Hi Nasu, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying it how it is. How many people would enlist in the military if they really knew what they were fighting for? How many simply accept what they see and what they're told?

I think the question is - who is it who is responsible for our own education?

Possibly the game is all about us having the opportunity to become aware. So, no blame. It is what it is and we make it so. :)

[Teakai]

What’s on your mind, What does loyalty without reason mean with you?

To me it means that loyalty given without reason maybe given at the sacrifice of truth. One may be required to forfeit their own integrity.

[Teakai]

I disagree. Admittedly some of David's ideas could be considered "alternative-alternative", but when it comes to stuff like this I think he's basically saying what the majority on here would be - ie be sceptical about government/power structures, know we're being lied to on a monumental worldwide basis, know that it's really us at the bottom of the pyramid that's holding it up... Know that peace is the target, but fighting for it is an absurdity destined to fail.

Agree, Devilpigeon. That's the trick/trap of this particular planet and this physical body. You can't be love and still sign up to kill people - because of course we are at essence soul/love - we are the same family.
When we understand the game and no longer choose to participate in the game - then we have completed earth 101 and are ready for the next stage :)

[Lord Sidious]

I disagree. Admittedly some of David's ideas could be considered "alternative-alternative", but when it comes to stuff like this I think he's basically saying what the majority on here would be - ie be sceptical about government/power structures, know we're being lied to on a monumental worldwide basis, know that it's really us at the bottom of the pyramid that's holding it up... Know that peace is the target, but fighting for it is an absurdity destined to fail.

Agree, Devilpigeon. That's the trick/trap of this particular planet and this physical body. You can't be love and still sign up to kill people - because of course we are at essence soul/love - we are the same family.
When we understand the game and no longer choose to participate in the game - then we have completed earth 101 and are ready for the next stage :)

I disagree. You can sign up and be full of love, that being your motivation.
The fact that it leads you to do things that are the polar opposite of love, THAT is the game we are stuck in here.
Remember how Annakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?
He fell because of his love for his wife.

[Teakai]

I disagree. Admittedly some of David's ideas could be considered "alternative-alternative", but when it comes to stuff like this I think he's basically saying what the majority on here would be - ie be sceptical about government/power structures, know we're being lied to on a monumental worldwide basis, know that it's really us at the bottom of the pyramid that's holding it up... Know that peace is the target, but fighting for it is an absurdity destined to fail.

Agree, Devilpigeon. That's the trick/trap of this particular planet and this physical body. You can't be love and still sign up to kill people - because of course we are at essence soul/love - we are the same family.
When we understand the game and no longer choose to participate in the game - then we have completed earth 101 and are ready for the next stage :)

I disagree. You can sign up and be full of love, that being your motivation.
The fact that it leads you to do things that are the polar opposite of love, THAT is the game we are stuck in here.
Remember how Annakin Skywalker became Darth Vader?
He fell because of his love for his wife.

Hmmmmmm, maybe it depends on the love, M'lord. There's love and there's LOVE. One has boundaries, the other has none.

(I have a terrible terrible confession ..... Ihaveneverwatchedstarwars.)
*gulp*
;)

Edit to add. M'lord, your comment put me in mind of a movie my husband watched late one night and was in a dilemma about.
There was this surgeon whose daughter had been terribly mutilated in an accident, but the doctor kept her alive somehow down in his lab and would kill people and use their bits to put his daughter back together again because he loved her so very much.
My husband didn't know whether this guy was doing good, or doing bad. because it was all for the love of his daughter.

The truth of it was, though, was that it wasn't really about his daughter, or what was best for her, but about his feelings about her, and about how he would feel losing her. Everything he did, he did for himself.

[Donna O]

The way I have come to look at it is that the source is an ever expanding consciousness. That each ‘piece’ of itself needs to experience everything in order to grow and propagate more consciousness.

As part of the source, I believe we are operating here on different levels of knowledge, learning and developing as we go until we reach a point of being creators of ever more life, experience and ultimately enlightened consciousness.

Does this make sense? I have all of these thoughts flying through my head but don’t have much talent for translating them into language which is why I mostly read rather than contribute. (off to work now ) :o





Sorry Teakai its tomorrow here12.50am Im to tired for intelligent reply --am I ever lol

I believe the soul is pure and does not need to evolve.
What is moving from self to Self evolves to know itself.
The Self of the "other" is the same divine energy as inhabits this Self and I acknowledge the Divinity in the other.
Self is egoless -- self has varying degrees of ego depending on how far the self has evolved.
When enlightenment happens there is no "person" left to claim that state
Best I can do
Good night may your life be filled with joy

Chris

No worries, Greybeard - I know what you mean. It was 9am-ish and I was awake and on the go :) Now I'm winding down.

But now I have another question altogether.
If we are soul and soul is pure (which I agree with to a point) What do you think it's doing this human game plan for? What point is this earthly life if soul is complete and requires nothing and must know itself already?

I also think that the trips are about shedding the identity and uniting with the whole - only I don't see the earth incarnation as being even nearly close to that stage.

This is quite possibly a question better asked in the ego/enlightenment thread. So, I'll go and pop it there, also. :)

[sllim11]

ah. like leelah said i have much many thoughts running through my head. trying to wrap around it so i can deliver it in a way that is hopefully understandable... so i will try here:

from what i understand, we work on ourselves (soul/spirit) in many dimensions and at many levels. that the earth is the best place to learn and to learn quickly. so soul/spirit is flawless. the opposite being our ego and the STS DNA we seem to have right now in this place in time and history. so after we have reached "enlightenment" here, we are off to another world to learn even more grand lessons.

as for the respect idea, i believe that each one of us lives the life that we are supposed to within the context of free-will and God's -will/co-creation. so, do i agree with the actions of or respect the person named "hitler"? no. but i do not believe his soul/spirit was "wrong" for him, given the fact that he had his own lessons, that we know nothing of, to work through.

thinking about this, i feel that possibly the word "respect" is only applicable to the material world. so that would lend it would or would not apply to a "person" and it would NOT apply to the essence of the being. hence, essence is beyond respect. ???



"respect |riˈspekt|
noun
1 a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements : the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor.
• the state of being admired in such a way : his first chance in over fifteen years to regain respect in the business.
• due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others : respect for human rights"

i would say "abilities, qualities, or achievements" does indeed pertain to the ego and not to the soul spirit...

curious? anyone have any thoughts about that?

[Teakai]

ah. like leelah said i have much many thoughts running through my head. trying to wrap around it so i can deliver it in a way that is hopefully understandable... so i will try here:

from what i understand, we work on ourselves (soul/spirit) in many dimensions and at many levels. that the earth is the best place to learn and to learn quickly. so soul/spirit is flawless. the opposite being our ego and the STS DNA we seem to have right now in this place in time and history. so after we have reached "enlightenment" here, we are off to another world to learn even more grand lessons.

as for the respect idea, i believe that each one of us lives the life that we are supposed to within the context of free-will and God's -will/co-creation. so, do i agree with the actions of or respect the person named "hitler"? no. but i do not believe his soul/spirit was "wrong" for him, given the fact that he had his own lessons, that we know nothing of, to work through.

thinking about this, i feel that possibly the word "respect" is only applicable to the material world. so that would lend it would or would not apply to a "person" and it would NOT apply to the essence of the being. hence, essence is beyond respect. ???



"respect |riˈspekt|
noun
1 a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements : the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor.
• the state of being admired in such a way : his first chance in over fifteen years to regain respect in the business.
• due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others : respect for human rights"

i would say "abilities, qualities, or achievements" does indeed pertain to the ego and not to the soul spirit...

curious? anyone have any thoughts about that?

Hi Slim - I do agree in regard to respect.

On the subject of soul - I'm not sure that soul is always in control. If it were it would not need to evolve.
We can underestimate the body we choose. We can underestimate the amount of our soul we bring into it and we can scr*w up. We can overestimate the lessons and challenges we set for ourselves.
But even with scr*wing up we can still evolve as soul, because we can learn so much from how we scr*wed up - if we choose to.
Like Hitler. The human ego won the day in that lifetime. Like many men of power - they seek that position because their ego's desire it and are pulling the strings.
I think this because mass murder and those atrocities are not necessary for soul evolvement. Those things are the realm of the lower frequencies.

Anyway, that's how I'm seeing it at the moment. :)

[John Parslow]

Hello Pigeon


The way I see the whole issue about either 'being scared to post in case you're "retired" too soon' or 'thanking posts on other sites that seem to go against the grain', is that it creates a bit of a paradox:
• You're true to yourself & unafraid to upset the applecart (and thus risk a ban, which may be detrimental as whole whole to a wider community)
• You're lying to yourself by holding yourself back, and thus keeping yourself in favour (which again, may ultimately be detrimental to a wider community)



I think that the ability to thank a post via the thank you button is very often taken out of context inasmuch as; the button is merely to thank a poster for their post and does not infer agreement with the context or sentiment necessarily of the content therein. I often thank posts with which I disagree for several differing reasons; one may be because the poster has had the courage to put in print their thoughts, another may be although that particular ‘thanker’ also might not agree with the content they feel that the post deserves thanks on it’s merits for it’s succinctness.

Perhaps we as a forum should concentrate on the message and stop trying to shoot the messenger or whoever thanked the messenger for their efforts. Just because a person on this forum may have a diametrically opposed view to mine does not mean that I do not appreciate their view and I would always defend their right to it and probably hit the thanks button - this is how we learn, see the other’s point of view, mull it over and try to see what we can understand from it.

This is still the best forum on the net and my wishes go to Bill and Inelia for their tireless efforts to enlighten us all …

Love and peace to all. JP :cool:

[Wings]

I think that the ability to thank a post via the thank you button is very often taken out of context inasmuch as; the button is merely to thank a poster for their post and does not infer agreement with the context or sentiment necessarily of the content therein.

I can't believe you are serious. "Very often taken out of context", you say?

More often than not, I see the majority of the posters here use the thanks button to say they agree with what another person has said, or to thank them for providing information that is of interest to them or key to the debate in progress. 'Some' do use it to 'support a friend' in their 'discussion' with others. It's even apparent where a person is not a friend of others, or a person's post is deemed irrelevant or not very useful - the poster is ignored and given no thanks. ... no different to what happens in real life.

But let's just call a spade a spade ... a spade isn't for hitting someone over the head with ... just like the thanks button.

[John Parslow]

Hello Wings


I can't believe you are serious. "Very often taken out of context", you say?

More often than not, I see the majority of the posters here use the thanks button to say they agree with what another person has said, or to thank them for providing information that is of interest to them or key to the debate in progress. 'Some' do use it to 'support a friend' in their 'discussion' with others. It's even apparent where a person is not a friend of others, or a person's post is deemed irrelevant or not very useful - the poster is ignored and given no thanks. ... no different to what happens in real life.

But let's just call a spade a spade ... a spade isn't for hitting someone over the head with ... just like the thanks button.



Probably my statement: “very often taken out of context” is incorrect but how do you know that people use the thanks button to say they agree with what another person has said? I assumed as I mentioned previously that it is there merely to thank someone for their post. As you correctly said: to call a spade a spade - it just means thank you … not necessarily I agree with you, or because I am your friend. It also has to be said that sometimes posts are ‘ignored’ simply because they have not all been read. I am sure that most Avalonians do not have time to spend all day reading everything …

Love and peace to you my friend and thank you for a differing opinion. JP :cool:

[butcherman]

well said john nothing to add just hit the button simple.

[9eagle9]

This is a good point. Thank you is courtesy not a contract of utter agreement and slavish devotion and alignment to what one has said. I will thank some one for opposing me in an intelligent way. I won't thank some one for unnecessarily trashing me.

"Thank you for responding to me, good, bad, or indifferent..:

How many unwanted gifts have we ever received and we politely said thank you. Instead of raising fur over it.




I've thanked posts in support of their right to opposition, not always because I agree. Or even a point I don't agree with that was made exceedingly coherently.

My thanks extend well beyond my alignments. In fact they couldn't exist without them.

i agree with you. i've thanked people simply because i thought what they said was funny, or could be a point of interest, or simply out of respect. but, the problem isn't thanking people, the problem is that it's being considered derisive to go to another forum and post anything or thank any posts that have any link to this forum, dual membership, with perhaps dual perspectives and such.
warmest, corson

this is just my opinion of course, i do not know the ins and outs of it all. and i could very well be wrong, god knows that i've been wrong a lot in my life up to this point.

[DevilPigeon]

Hello Pigeon
.
.
I think that the ability to thank a post via the thank you button is very often taken out of context inasmuch as; the button is merely to thank a poster for their post and does not infer agreement with the context or sentiment necessarily of the content therein. I often thank posts with which I disagree for several differing reasons; one may be because the poster has had the courage to put in print their thoughts, another may be although that particular ‘thanker’ also might not agree with the content they feel that the post deserves thanks on it’s merits for it’s succinctness.

Perhaps we as a forum should concentrate on the message and stop trying to shoot the messenger or whoever thanked the messenger for their efforts. Just because a person on this forum may have a diametrically opposed view to mine does not mean that I do not appreciate their view and I would always defend their right to it and probably hit the thanks button - this is how we learn, see the other’s point of view, mull it over and try to see what we can understand from it.
.
.


Hi John

I agree with what you said above, merely seeing that someone has thanked a post gives no context at all into why that post has been thanked. Banning a poster by who has merely given a 'thanks' is shallow in my opinion.

At the very least, the question needs to be asked why they gave thanks before making a decision. But even that I'm not sure about, I'd be inclined to say "that's my business!"

[Wings]

Probably my statement: “very often taken out of context” is incorrect but how do you know that people use the thanks button to say they agree with what another person has said?
Read the posts that come after the person hits the thanks button. The word 'thanks' is a compliment. If you hit the thanks button, you are complimenting someone on what they have said ... by doing so you are giving the person your nod of approval. I do not know how a person can see it any other way. This is why I said just call a spade a spade. Some who have used the thanks button inappropriately, and deliberately so, have paid the price. If a friend of mine was overhead at a neighbour's house insulting me, she wouldn't be welcomed in my house again.

I assumed as I mentioned previously that it is there merely to thank someone for their post. As you correctly said: to call a spade a spade - it just means thank you … not necessarily I agree with you, or because I am your friend.

It also has to be said that sometimes posts are ‘ignored’ simply because they have not all been read. I am sure that most Avalonians do not have time to spend all day reading everything …
That wasn't my point. I don't expect people to read every post in this forum. There are many instances where I've seen people talking around other people's posts.

Love and peace to you my friend and thank you for a differing opinion. JP :cool:

****************

[Wings]

How many unwanted gifts have we ever received and we politely said thank you. Instead of raising fur over it.

Not relevant in a forum setting.

[Flash]

How many unwanted gifts have we ever received and we politely said thank you. Instead of raising fur over it.

Not relevant in a forum setting.

Why not relevant in a forum setting?

[John Parslow]

Hello again Pigeon


I agree with what you said above, merely seeing that someone has thanked a post gives no context at all into why that post has been thanked. Banning a poster by who has merely given a 'thanks' is shallow in my opinion.

At the very least, the question needs to be asked why they gave thanks before making a decision. But even that I'm not sure about, I'd be inclined to say "that's my business!"


Nice to speak with you again, about time you started another funny thread …

I am not really sure what you mean by the above in bold - why would anyone be banned just for saying thanks? Are you sure there are not other extraneous circumstances involved - I must confess that I personally have not had time to read a lot of threads lately (family visitors - one of the penalties of living by the sea) so I am not really apprised of this situation.

Love and peace to you my friend. JP :cool:

[9eagle9]

I'm denouncing my buttocks too.

Maybe for different reasons...


I thought life was complicated enough.........!
I never trust my mind!

I shall now denounce my own buttocks.

[DevilPigeon]

Hello again Pigeon


I agree with what you said above, merely seeing that someone has thanked a post gives no context at all into why that post has been thanked. Banning a poster by who has merely given a 'thanks' is shallow in my opinion.

At the very least, the question needs to be asked why they gave thanks before making a decision. But even that I'm not sure about, I'd be inclined to say "that's my business!"


Nice to speak with you again, about time you started another funny thread …

I am not really sure what you mean by the above in bold - why would anyone be banned just for saying thanks? Are you sure there are not other extraneous circumstances involved - I must confess that I personally have not had time to read a lot of threads lately (family visitors - one of the penalties of living by the sea) so I am not really apprised of this situation.

Love and peace to you my friend. JP :cool:

Hello again John!

Always nice to speak to you my fine friend, a pleasure! Don't recall a funny thread though, maybe it degenerated into that after several posts? LOL

The bit you question, I'll hold my hands up and say I'm not 100% into the history/circumstances, but it appeared as if a long-standing member who had no previous contentious posts, was retired solely because of a 'thanks' they did on another site. The poster in question, I looked through as best I could their post history on here & saw nothing bad. I also got the feeling others felt the same, so I don't think it was entirely my imagination.

This is what I'm uncomfortable about.

All the best to you my friend! :)

[NancyV]

I disagree. Admittedly some of David's ideas could be considered "alternative-alternative", but when it comes to stuff like this I think he's basically saying what the majority on here would be - ie be sceptical about government/power structures, know we're being lied to on a monumental worldwide basis, know that it's really us at the bottom of the pyramid that's holding it up... Know that peace is the target, but fighting for it is an absurdity destined to fail.

Agree, Devilpigeon. That's the trick/trap of this particular planet and this physical body. You can't be love and still sign up to kill people - because of course we are at essence soul/love - we are the same family. When we understand the game and no longer choose to participate in the game - then we have completed earth 101 and are ready for the next stage :)
I disagree. You can sign up and be full of love, that being your motivation. The fact that it leads you to do things that are the polar opposite of love, THAT is the game we are stuck in here. Remember how Annakin Skywalker became Darth Vader? He fell because of his love for his wife.I think much misunderstanding comes from our individual definitions of LOVE and what is LOVING. If you came here to do certain things that look unloving to others, it may still be the loving thing to stay true to your mission. Sometimes your mission may hurt or kill others, but that "death" is only here in this game where a player gets taken off this playing field. The player then plays elsewhere and the game goes on.

I will post something I may have posted part of many months ago, but it bears repeating. It's a view of a Buddhist monk in Vietnam of a young soldier (17 or 18 at that time) who is in Vietnam to do one main thing....kill. This comes from my husband's memoirs of his time in Vietnam in a secret unit of black ops assassins. His team lived with a tribe of Hmung who were fierce warriors. The following took place once when they stayed at a Buddhist monastery where they occasionally spent time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The monastery was old, built of stone and intricately carved ironwood and teak. It was designed with large open areas where the monks grew flowers and had small rock gardens. Everywhere you looked there was incense burning, or flowers; the variety of smells was wonderful. There were some brass and bronze decorations and even a few gold ones, but most of the decorations were made of the intricately carved wood.

The monks here spent much of their time working the wood of the area. They never cut wood to work it, they only used wood from fallen trees. It would have been against their belief that all life was precious to kill a tree to work the wood, but if the tree had already given up its life they would turn the wood into something beautiful. The tree had great strength and beauty in life, and in death it fed the earth. Its strength and beauty went into the objects created by the monks. I would watch as the monks slowly and lovingly carved the small things they made; animals, flowers, bowls, cups, and the larger items; boxes, prayer towers, arches, doors, room dividers. It was a joy to see the peaceful pleasure they got from their simple, yet detailed work.

The monks all spoke several of the local dialects including the language of the Hmung. The monks considered the Hmung to be their children, whom they helped in any way they could. The Hmung would come to the monks when the shaman couldn’t heal someone or if there was a need for food. The monks shared their food with the Hmung when they needed it and the Hmung shared theirs when the monks needed it. Several of the monks spoke French and a few spoke English. They had learned from the French and British soldiers who had fought in the area before we arrived. The British had fought all over during World War Two and the French had fought here since the end of World War Two. One of the monks smiled and told me that now it was our turn. He told me that the people of this region of South East Asia had been conquered many times but never defeated.

When the French were here they had used the monastery as an outpost. A platoon of the French Foreign Legion had been posted here and several Legionnaires had died protecting the monks and the Hmung from the Viet Minh, the predecessors of the Vietcong. Both sides in this war disliked the monks because few of them would take sides. They opposed the war because it was a war, and supported neither side. As for us, we were just the latest in a long line of foreign people who had come here to fight a war.

When I had the time I would talk with the monks. They seemed to be so at peace with themselves, never hurrying anything or becoming upset over anything. If something broke they cleaned it up and moved on, no big deal. I loved being around them and did my best to emulate their attitudes. I wanted to be able to be as unbothered by anything that happened as they were.

One day, while I was relaxing in one of the rock gardens, one of the older monks stopped to speak with me. “I would sit and talk with you if that is acceptable to you,” he said in his perfect British accent.

“Sit, I’d be glad to talk with you,” I answered, motioning him to sit next to me.

“I have traveled to the cities of this land and have seen many American soldiers, but none like you and your friends.”

“Yes, we are different than many of the others.”

“Oh no, I have seen commandos before, the British, the French, the Japanese. What I mean is, you don’t treat us or the Hmung as lesser people.”

“Why would we do that? They’re just as good as we are. Hell, they’re better than we are in many ways.”

“No,” he smiled, amused, shaking his head. “No man is better than another; each has his own way through this world. He chooses what he will leave behind him, hate or peace. You have chosen your path, and a dark and violent path it is, but you do not leave hate behind you. I have watched you with the other monks and with the Hmung. You treat them all as equals.”

“They are my equals or my betters. I’m not really sure which.”

“Yes, you are. You never grovel or kowtow, you also never talk down or act rudely to anyone.”

“Oh, I have my rude times, you just haven’t seen any of them.”

“Have you ever been rude or hateful to a monk or Hmung?”

“No, I’ve never had any reason to.”

“How do you judge a man?”

“By his actions, his attitudes, what he’s doing.”

“Do you ever consider race?” He looked at me very closely as I thought on my answer.

“At times I have, yes, and been proven wrong. I try not to judge anyone by race,
religion, or anything other than who he shows himself to be.”

“Good. The tribe’s shaman told me you were a good man; I just wanted to see for
myself.”

I looked at him in confusion. “He said what?”

“That you were a good man, and you are, you just need to accept that in yourself.”

“Do you know what it is I do?”

“Yes, you are here fighting a war. Do you know what it is you do?”

“Yes. I kill.”

“No. You release.”

“Release? What do you mean?”

“We are all here for a short time. Once we are released we can move on to our next life. You allow the spirits of the people you shoot to pass on to their next and possibly better life.”

“What if this was the better life?”

“Then it was their karma to leave this one in order to earn it again.”

“How does one earn a better life?”

“Through their actions in this one.”

“Then my next life isn’t going to be worth a sh*t.”

“I think you are wrong. In your own way you do much good in this world. Every man has his own gift and mission. You simply do what you are here to do.”

“How can I be sure?”

“Because you are doing it,” he said with a smile as he stood and walked away, leaving me deep in thought.

[Jake]

Thank you, NancyV. I will take this to heart.

[Calz]

Thank you Nancy.

I had never quite thought of it like that. Interesting story.

*** adding ***

A while back I started a thread concerned about needing to defend my family in the event society breaks down to the extent of limited food and roving gangs etc breaking into homes.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15556-Morality-of-chosing-death-options-PARENTS-INVITED!!!

I have managed to live a non-violent life thus far and was somewhat tormented at such a prospect. From the perspective of your story (and bearing in mind that "intent" seems to carry more weight than action) I feel less distressed by such likelihoods.

[Second Son]

A provocative title to this thread, indeed. I can see that in true form, we are chewing on the gristle, whilst the real meaty issues go by with nary a notice... Sex also sells. I bet if we started a thread which reads "Footage of Alien Grey Reproducing with Abductee", there would be, like a million views.

Or maybe "Pimp my Underground Bunker" ;)

[NancyV]

A provocative title to this thread, indeed. I can see that in true form, we are chewing on the gristle, whilst the real meaty issues go by with nary a notice... Sex also sells. I bet if we started a thread which reads "Footage of Alien Grey Reproducing with Abductee", there would be, like a million views.

Or maybe "Pimp my Underground Bunker" ;)
I like Pimp my Underground Bunker! Let us know when you begin that thread please!

Nancy :p :hug:

[edina]

What’s on your mind, What does loyalty without reason mean with you?

To me it means that loyalty given without reason maybe given at the sacrifice of truth. One may be required to forfeit their own integrity.

Teakai, I must say I am enjoying your posts, thanks for your thinking here.

IN fact, many of our young American soldiers are doing just this, coming home feeling as if they have betrayed some deeper truth within themselves.

They suffer, their families suffer.

The issue of loyalty is similar to the issue of integrity in my mind, a person could be loyal, for loyalty's sake, or have an examined loyatly, a loyalty that is weighed with a low purpose, or a high purpose.
The same with integrity, a thief will be in integrity with a thief's values, and a con man with a con man's values.

So, it may more important to know our values, and hopefully to reach for our noblest intent, our highest potential, to set the purpose and meaning to qualities such as loyalty, or integrity.

I served in the USAF, too. A strong leader understands that loyalty goes both ways, up the chain of command, and down the chain of command. When the troops cannot trust their leader, the effectiveness of the team is compromised.

During my wee time in the Air Force, I challenged this very issue up my chain command, any time I saw it. You would think it got me into trouble. But it didn't. It earned me the respect of squadron commanders, base commanders, and many starred generals. I was usually thanked and appreciated for my actions.

Most times, it is deeply respectful to call a man's hand, when he is slightly slipping off his center. It called camaraderie. It ensures esprit de corps. No one is perfect, and we all watch each others back.

[edina]

This is a good point. Thank you is courtesy not a contract of utter agreement and slavish devotion and alignment to what one has said. I will thank some one for opposing me in an intelligent way. I won't thank some one for unnecessarily trashing me.

"Thank you for responding to me, good, bad, or indifferent..:

How many unwanted gifts have we ever received and we politely said thank you. Instead of raising fur over it.

I thanked NorthernBoy today over at Nexus because he expressed his opinion without the degree of anger he has been posting. I felt good about that, and wanted to appreciate it.

My feeling is, if anyone wants to assume what I mean when I push a TY button, there assumption is their responsibility. If they want to know why I pushed the button, hey...ask me. It's all cool!!!:cool:

[Lord Sidious]

Violence in itself is a tool like any other and should be viewed as such.
It is the motivation to use the tool that we need to watch.
Those who kill to protect in genuine circumstances are different to a thrill killer for example.

[Tangri]

so, "little boy excrement would be you?"
regards, corson

chico - little boy
doodoo - excrement

are you an agent provocateur?

I wish I knew Spanish. I know first word but I am unfamiliar with american slang.

[ulli]

Violence in itself is a tool like any other and should be viewed as such.
It is the motivation to use the tool that we need to watch.
Those who kill to protect in genuine circumstances are different to a thrill killer for example.

In the case of the thrill killer the tool theory shifts a bit, I would say.
Here the killer himself becomes tbe tool. His violence is the ammunition.

[John Parslow]

Good morning Pigeon


Always nice to speak to you my fine friend, a pleasure! Don't recall a funny thread though, maybe it degenerated into that after several posts? LOL

The bit you question, I'll hold my hands up and say I'm not 100% into the history/circumstances, but it appeared as if a long-standing member who had no previous contentious posts, was retired solely because of a 'thanks' they did on another site. The poster in question, I looked through as best I could their post history on here & saw nothing bad. I also got the feeling others felt the same, so I don't think it was entirely my imagination.

This is what I'm uncomfortable about. All the best to you my friend!



Once again it is my pleasure to speak to you, sorry about the funny thread reference - it’s possible I am thinking of another, so apologies for that.

If a long-standing member here on Avalon was banned for thanking on another site then surely it must be because of the either the content or the context of that post. I have been here long enough to realize that Bill does not ban Avalonians just for the sake of it! He certainly would not ban his own supporters - would anyone? Were there machinations behind Bill’s back, sometimes people can be extremely petty on forums! I am always sorry to see people leave (however it happens) but that it the nature of a forum; we are hundreds of disparate people from many countries and walks of life and as such almost bound to disagree with each other occasionally, I have always tried to see the other’s point of view and see if there is any common ground on which we can both agree …

As ever my friend I wish you peace and love. JP :cool:

[Moonwish]

Violence in itself is a tool like any other and should be viewed as such.
It is the motivation to use the tool that we need to watch.
Those who kill to protect in genuine circumstances are different to a thrill killer for example.

I agree violence has been a tool that we must put down, finally.

We have been led to kill, not really chosen it for the most part.
I remember the satisfaction of that, but now am disgusted by that feeling.

What is a soldier if not a being following orders?

I have said "yes" many times to what I would now say "no" to.

Maybe it's progress. Maybe it's weakness. I'm not fully sure anymore.

I live life incognito. An academic, incapable of action.

[sllim11]

ah. like leelah said i have much many thoughts running through my head. trying to wrap around it so i can deliver it in a way that is hopefully understandable... so i will try here:

from what i understand, we work on ourselves (soul/spirit) in many dimensions and at many levels. that the earth is the best place to learn and to learn quickly. so soul/spirit is flawless. the opposite being our ego and the STS DNA we seem to have right now in this place in time and history. so after we have reached "enlightenment" here, we are off to another world to learn even more grand lessons.

as for the respect idea, i believe that each one of us lives the life that we are supposed to within the context of free-will and God's -will/co-creation. so, do i agree with the actions of or respect the person named "hitler"? no. but i do not believe his soul/spirit was "wrong" for him, given the fact that he had his own lessons, that we know nothing of, to work through.

thinking about this, i feel that possibly the word "respect" is only applicable to the material world. so that would lend it would or would not apply to a "person" and it would NOT apply to the essence of the being. hence, essence is beyond respect. ???



"respect |riˈspekt|
noun
1 a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements : the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor.
• the state of being admired in such a way : his first chance in over fifteen years to regain respect in the business.
• due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others : respect for human rights"

i would say "abilities, qualities, or achievements" does indeed pertain to the ego and not to the soul spirit...

curious? anyone have any thoughts about that?

Hi Slim - I do agree in regard to respect.

On the subject of soul - I'm not sure that soul is always in control. If it were it would not need to evolve.
We can underestimate the body we choose. We can underestimate the amount of our soul we bring into it and we can scr*w up. We can overestimate the lessons and challenges we set for ourselves.
But even with scr*wing up we can still evolve as soul, because we can learn so much from how we scr*wed up - if we choose to.
Like Hitler. The human ego won the day in that lifetime. Like many men of power - they seek that position because their ego's desire it and are pulling the strings.
I think this because mass murder and those atrocities are not necessary for soul evolvement. Those things are the realm of the lower frequencies.

Anyway, that's how I'm seeing it at the moment. :)

hi Teakai. just thinking about your post. i think maybe the soul does know what is going on but the human self is in a fog and does not remember. also, it is this forgetting, the veil, that causes us to keep learning, to keep striving to remember. because if we do remember, that would mean we have evolved past the point of having to continue to learn earth lessons. (did that make sense?) i'm not sure what control has to do with it. ? and, i agree, it is really only through sc*ewing up that we grow. at least from my own experience, seems i gain the most from the really painful s*it. y'know?

i do think lower frequencies, hitler types, could be souls trying to evolve or could be a possession or something like a truly lower entity. i really don't think we could ever know that for sure. anyhow, is interesting food for thought... thanks for your input!

[Chicodoodoo]

I’m taking Bill’s advice and moving on. He mentioned that members who fail to understand the complex meaning of Avalon and fail to resonate to its message should seek other homes.

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon? The moderators really should do something about this. The message of Avalon that we resonate with is the pursuit of truth and unity. That message is apparently being undermined with relentless efficiency. Avalon is being transformed into a shell of its former self. It is so disheartening to watch. Is there nothing that we as a community can do?

[1159]

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon? The moderators really should do something about this. The message of Avalon that we resonate with is the pursuit of truth and unity. That message is apparently being undermined with relentless efficiency. Avalon is being transformed into a shell of its former self. It is so disheartening to watch. Is there nothing that we as a community can do?

It's only my opinion, but you need to go back to the the original interview Bill had with Charles. Listen to it again very carefully. Listen to what Bill and Charles nearly said, but tailed off because it was a live interview. Especially regarding Kerry Cassidy and Bill. Read between the lines and join the dots ...

This is a time of transition and that is unsettling, but this is not altogether a bad thing, the river has changed it's path and we need to follow its course. Some things are lost and others gained. I have sat back for many weeks and just watched the activity here without too much involvement. There are seasons for everything. It's time to pick up the pieces and build again a citadel for truth.

[Nasu]

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon? The moderators really should do something about this. The message of Avalon that we resonate with is the pursuit of truth and unity. That message is apparently being undermined with relentless efficiency. Avalon is being transformed into a shell of its former self. It is so disheartening to watch. Is there nothing that we as a community can do?

This is a time of transition and that is unsettling, but this is not altogether a bad thing, the river has changed it's path and we need to follow its course. Some things are lost and others gained. I have sat back for many weeks and just watched the activity here without too much involvement. There are seasons for everything. It's time to pick up the pieces and build again a citadel for truth.

It is a troubling time to be sure, here in Avalon and in the wider context, but we are the only ones who can effect the change we wish to see. Although we may react against it, or choose to walk away from it, the game is afoot, with or without us. We can only control our reaction or action.

As for negative plants within our ranks, sowing the seeds of disharmony, I personally take it as a compliment to Avalon and the ripples its 1900+ membership are causing in the wider battle ground. Like so mush else in life, its a numbers game.

If we take the distant mountain view for one moment we see so many things happening at once, some are clearly designed to confuse and misdirect and miss-lead us, it is time for us to be even stronger and more united, not less.

Old Roman saying: when there's trouble in the senate rattle the sabers abroad.

Squint your eyes gang, its time for us to see clearly through the crap and work together. x.. N

[9eagle9]

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon?

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

[edina]

I’m taking Bill’s advice and moving on. He mentioned that members who fail to understand the complex meaning of Avalon and fail to resonate to its message should seek other homes.

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon? The moderators really should do something about this. The message of Avalon that we resonate with is the pursuit of truth and unity. That message is apparently being undermined with relentless efficiency. Avalon is being transformed into a shell of its former self. It is so disheartening to watch. Is there nothing that we as a community can do?

Chicodoodoo, we HAVE been doing something, come join the choir of voices for forgiveness, healing, repair, reconciliation, and Peace!!! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19661-Healing-Choir)

[Teakai]

hi Teakai. just thinking about your post. i think maybe the soul does know what is going on but the human self is in a fog and does not remember. also, it is this forgetting, the veil, that causes us to keep learning, to keep striving to remember. because if we do remember, that would mean we have evolved past the point of having to continue to learn earth lessons. (did that make sense?) i'm not sure what control has to do with it. ? and, i agree, it is really only through sc*ewing up that we grow. at least from my own experience, seems i gain the most from the really painful s*it. y'know?

i do think lower frequencies, hitler types, could be souls trying to evolve or could be a possession or something like a truly lower entity. i really don't think we could ever know that for sure. anyhow, is interesting food for thought... thanks for your input!

Hi Slim - I agree with you about the veil. But whatever action we take - it is still us taking the action - but sometimes in ignorance. And while the veil is on us, well, anything can happen.
Especially when we choose to ignore that inner voice of our deeper knowledge and as such what we planned can go out the window.

By control I was just meaning that, though we have a plan made as soul before we incarnate - that plan doesn't always go accordingly.

One of Michael Newton's clients during his/her regression session said that as soon as killed his body he thought, "Sh*t!! What the hell did I do that for?" (Paraphrased)

I do agree that in ego we do stuff that we wouldn't choose to do as soul - and we learn by that. But the lesson can be learned fast, or slow.
From another book there was the story of the person who as soul agreed to plant a mail bomb as a human so this woman would have her hands blown off - each would learn something valuable from this - if they chose to.

There are other souls who are so ashamed of what they have done that they refuse to move on to their rightful place when they 'die' and there are others who are so taken with the material world that they want to stay close by it.

There's a completely amazing system going on in the 'afterlife'.
The soul that played Hitler may be hiding himself away in shame for his actions - or he may have got home and said, 'boy, I totally messed up that one good, didn't?'
There's also the chance that he did exactly as he, as soul, had planned to do.

Just to say -I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying - I'm just putting this forth in the interests of the subject :)
Sounds to me like we pretty much are on the same lines in our thinking.

[Teakai]

Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon? The moderators really should do something about this. The message of Avalon that we resonate with is the pursuit of truth and unity. That message is apparently being undermined with relentless efficiency. Avalon is being transformed into a shell of its former self. It is so disheartening to watch. Is there nothing that we as a community can do?

Hi Chico - it's a bit like a condensed version of the world situation. :)

What can we do?

Expose the inconsistency and the evidence.
And then allow the rest to make of it what they will.

I guess the only thing other than that we can do is to not take it personally.

(current opinion subject to change depending on the weather)

[loveandgratitude]

Friends teach you what you WANT to know. Enemies teach you what you NEED to know.

[greybeard]

Alcoholism the great teacher.
At one AA meeting a Dr friend said "Jesus had righteous anger, is it not all right to be angry when its justified ?"
The Chairman said "Jesus wasnt an alcoholic the main cause of members drinking again is resentment"

My friend drank again he was dead within the month.

I cant afford to carry anger and resentment ( I dont see any reason to) and I can only speak for me.

It is as it is-- The teaching of Eckhart Tolle helped me ---immensity.
So the "enemy" alcoholism taught me so much, frankly it was learn or die.
So now on the whole I say live and let live, AA says "Let go Let God"

Situations, events, have way of sorting them selves out

Love Chris

[loveandgratitude]

The funny thing is that everyone thinks of changing the world, but few ever thinks of changing oneself.

[Chicodoodoo]

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Sometimes, people are more inclined to listen when you whisper.

[Nasu]

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Sometimes, people are more inclined to listen when you whisper.

I hear that... N

[9eagle9]

Whispering failed about two months ago. I for one am not addressing the situation anymore and I don't blame others for not doing so either. It is literally beating a dead horse.


Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon?

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

[edina]

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Sometimes, people are more inclined to listen when you whisper.

I think her point Chico, is that the more gentle attempts have been squashed, this is why so many good hearted people are leaving.

[edina]

Whispering failed about two months ago. I for one am not addressing the situation anymore and I don't blame others for not doing so either. It is literally beating a dead horse.


Has anyone been able to identify the person that has been so successful at chopping up the community here at Avalon?

YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

I am disheartened because the The Healing Choir (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19661-Healing-Choir) thread is closed, I am thinking about leaving now too, to be honest I had been thinking about it last week, but I had rallied when I faced my own inner issues and felt them resolved inside of me.

Now matter how hurt the people here become, and very many people here have been hurt by the events here at Avalon, please remember, Forgiveness is the key, it truly is

[9eagle9]

Yes that is it exactly.

And when that occurs, when a number of people have tirelessly attempted to shed light on the situation and it falls on deaf ears, or is otherwise ignored, it sends the clear message that people don't want a solution. They are then asking for what they really don't want and one realizes that if they refuse a means of solution than what is really wanted is a means of continuing the drama .

So now that the solution has been withdrawn, now we are left with the drama.

And if we are choosing drama over solution then we must next accept all the negativity, criticism, victimizing, taking sides and hysteria that goes along with drama.

Enjoy.




YES!!!! For the MILLIONTH TIME THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WHO HAVE IDENTIFIED WHO/WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE BEEN SHOUTING IT FROM THE ROOF TOP BUT IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS SO WE STOPPED ATTEMPTING TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

Sometimes, people are more inclined to listen when you whisper.

I think her point Chico, is that the more gentle attempts have been squashed, this is why so many good hearted people are leaving.

[loveandgratitude]

It would be really wonderful to have a MEDIATION & HEALING ROOM here at Avalon. In the past, a large amount of wonderful people were attacked, ridiculed for their posts, bullied into submission and fearful to post again. These people did not have a voice here at Avalon because of the bullies operating behind the scenes. Not allowing NEW KIDS on the block to show their prescence.

The situation seems to be now resolving with the banning of some of these bullies. Some left peacefully but now they are regrouping as a hornets nest, attacking in a different modis operandi, where the agenda it to take away as many members from Avalon based upon fear, lies, deception.
This is worked well for them. Maybe we need a Healing/Mediation Room to discuss our concerns, worries, problems etc.

My point here, if and when differences occur between people, we need to create a safe place where these greivenous could be aired in a private room away from the public but open to all members, who could offer advise and wisdom. A safe place where we could approach the differences with understanding, opening a door for growth. Hopefully the result would be increased understanding and softening on both sides. A room full of the essence of compromise or collabration, bringing out the best in ourselves and others.

A safe place where there is an understanding of seperate realities where we could have the luxury of reflection without irritation or judgement. Not undersatnding the principle of seperate realities can result in constant conflict and frustation. The solution would be to gain an adequate understanding of a persons perspective and to have the humility to admit tht we cannot always step into the minds of other people. No matter how easily you see something, or how obviously true a situation appears, someone else will access it differently and be equally certain of that position.

In the mediation/healing room we can learn to accept another point of view without conflict.

[Carmody]

The funny thing is that everyone thinks of changing the world, but few ever thinks of changing oneself.

I tried to explain that concept to a billionaire once. That we had to fix ourselves first so that we came from a 'right place' when we tired to help the world.

He insisted that he was right and that the world had to be helped first. Then he quickly left so that his comment could hang in space as the last word. He would not even look at me when he said it.

As for the rest:
As well, anyone who has a hard voice, in their demeanor, etc... should be encouraged to move on to another forum that might be more suitable for their mental stance.

Debate -- requires civility...specifically with respect to a more gentle crowd. Without it no clear thought can form or be expressed. The mean/hard can become the civil.

This last bit is the entire point.

But ...the civil should not be expected to 'harden up' and/or 'take it like adults'.

If this cannot happen, then the given' 'hard/oppressive demeanor' type person should be encouraged to move along.

[Flash]

Friends teach you what you WANT to know. Enemies teach you what you NEED to know.

wouuuuu, I love this

[Flash]

The funny thing is that everyone thinks of changing the world, but few ever thinks of changing oneself.

I tried to explain that concept to a billionaire once. That we had to fix ourselves first so that we came from a 'right place' when we tired to help the world.
He insisted that he was right and that the world had to be helped first. Then he quickly left so that his comment could hang in space as the last word. He would not even look at me when he said it.

As for the rest:
As well, anyone who has a hard voice, in their demeanor, etc... should be encouraged to move on to another forum that might be more suitable for their mental stance.

Debate -- requires civility...specifically with respect to a more gentle crowd. Without it no clear thought can form or be expressed. The mean/hard can become the civil.

This last bit is the entire point.

But ...the civil should not be expected to 'harden up' and/or 'take it like adults'.

If this cannot happen, then the given' 'hard/oppressive demeanor' type person should be encouraged to move along.

I just explained it to a billionnaire's son today, 19 years old (totally true by the way, not a figure of style). Telling him that going around "screwing" others and having to always protest and disrespect was coming from lack of love, that to change the world was to open his heart while using his very bright brain to support his heart, and change himself, this is what being a man is. That was all I wished for him.
He had wet eyes, I was astonished that it went through, in him.
Love to all

[Flash]

Please check the healing choir thread, did I miss something Dennis thread, and message of the healing choir thread, all closed man!

I had rarely seen such a beautiful, what seemed to be heartfelt attemps at reconciliation or at the least forgiveness, chopped off litterally. I barely can believe it. What is happening? One hand extended and chopped, that it is what it looks like.

Where is that thinking coming from? I cannot believe it is Bill ordering, he seems much too wise and open for this kind of behaviour. I truly, in all my being, do not understand at all.

It looks like warring wanting to be prolongued. Gosh doesn't it look like what is happening on this planet. I can't resist but writing this, too bad is some are not happy with this, I am too old and have seen this kind of things happening way too much.

All my hope is that it is not what it looks like and that I am confounded or do not understand something, if someone can help me and explain, I would appreciate.

[loveandgratitude]

Please check the healing choir thread, did I miss something Dennis thread, and message of the healing choir thread, all closed man!



Where is that thinking coming from? I cannot believe it is Bill ordering, he seems much too wise and open for this kind of behaviour. .
I can't resist but writing this, , if someone can help me and explain, I would appreciate.


This is why we need a mediation room so we can ask questions in private.

[ThePythonicCow]

Yes, Flash, those other threads are closed, for the reason stated on each thread. Let's not try to bring that matter to other threads. :focus:

[sllim11]

hi Teakai. just thinking about your post. i think maybe the soul does know what is going on but the human self is in a fog and does not remember. also, it is this forgetting, the veil, that causes us to keep learning, to keep striving to remember. because if we do remember, that would mean we have evolved past the point of having to continue to learn earth lessons. (did that make sense?) i'm not sure what control has to do with it. ? and, i agree, it is really only through sc*ewing up that we grow. at least from my own experience, seems i gain the most from the really painful s*it. y'know?

i do think lower frequencies, hitler types, could be souls trying to evolve or could be a possession or something like a truly lower entity. i really don't think we could ever know that for sure. anyhow, is interesting food for thought... thanks for your input!

Hi Slim - I agree with you about the veil. But whatever action we take - it is still us taking the action - but sometimes in ignorance. And while the veil is on us, well, anything can happen.
Especially when we choose to ignore that inner voice of our deeper knowledge and as such what we planned can go out the window.

By control I was just meaning that, though we have a plan made as soul before we incarnate - that plan doesn't always go accordingly.

One of Michael Newton's clients during his/her regression session said that as soon as killed his body he thought, "Sh*t!! What the hell did I do that for?" (Paraphrased)

I do agree that in ego we do stuff that we wouldn't choose to do as soul - and we learn by that. But the lesson can be learned fast, or slow.
From another book there was the story of the person who as soul agreed to plant a mail bomb as a human so this woman would have her hands blown off - each would learn something valuable from this - if they chose to.

There are other souls who are so ashamed of what they have done that they refuse to move on to their rightful place when they 'die' and there are others who are so taken with the material world that they want to stay close by it.

There's a completely amazing system going on in the 'afterlife'.
The soul that played Hitler may be hiding himself away in shame for his actions - or he may have got home and said, 'boy, I totally messed up that one good, didn't?'
There's also the chance that he did exactly as he, as soul, had planned to do.

Just to say -I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying - I'm just putting this forth in the interests of the subject :)
Sounds to me like we pretty much are on the same lines in our thinking.

yes teakai. totally same lines of thinking. i thought that already from your earlier posts...

imagine that?!?! two members at avalon actually "getting along" ! HA.

[Oxygen]

A bit further explinations about the closing of those 3 threads would be nice.... Sepia`s opening post was thanked by several mods , it was also agreed to sticky it ( done or not i didn`t notice ) .... What is all that about???

[ThePythonicCow]

A bit further explinations about the closing of those 3 threads would be nice.... Sepia`s opening post was thanked by several mods , it was also agreed to sticky it ( done or not i didn`t notice ) .... What is all that about???

I am discussing, in general terms, what I said specifically in the closing message of those three threads. But not here. Instead please consider the Forgiveness (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?19680-Forgiveness) thread.

[edina]

The funny thing is that everyone thinks of changing the world, but few ever thinks of changing oneself.

I tried to explain that concept to a billionaire once. That we had to fix ourselves first so that we came from a 'right place' when we tired to help the world.
He insisted that he was right and that the world had to be helped first. Then he quickly left so that his comment could hang in space as the last word. He would not even look at me when he said it.

As for the rest:
As well, anyone who has a hard voice, in their demeanor, etc... should be encouraged to move on to another forum that might be more suitable for their mental stance.

Debate -- requires civility...specifically with respect to a more gentle crowd. Without it no clear thought can form or be expressed. The mean/hard can become the civil.

This last bit is the entire point.

But ...the civil should not be expected to 'harden up' and/or 'take it like adults'.

If this cannot happen, then the given' 'hard/oppressive demeanor' type person should be encouraged to move along.

I just explained it to a billionnaire's son today, 19 years old (totally true by the way, not a figure of style). Telling him that going around "screwing" others and having to always protest and disrespect was coming from lack of love, that to change the world was to open his heart while using his very bright brain to support his heart, and change himself, this is what being a man is. That was all I wished for him.
He had wet eyes, I was astonished that it went through, in him.
Love to all

I've been seeing what you describe here more and more, about three weeks ago, I was talking with a contracter neighbor, he's a born grouch, very surly, love the dude. He'll do anything for you. We've been talking to him about the current issues evolving on the planet, oh..., for years now. Usually he just tolerates it.

However, this time, some part of him became riveted by what I was saying, I was talking about how we affect our reality by how we use our consciousness.

I believe it was at the word "consciousness", he completely transformed, it was if his soul reached forward from behind his personality. He looked me square and deeply in the eye. And like your young friend, his eyes watered, he felt genuinely moved in his heart some way.

This thread started as a sort of tongue in cheek tension releaser, so to bring this in line with the topic, on the surface level there is still much deception, however, underneath the surface, and in the air, if you train your eye and look for the signs I think people can begin to see how Truth is resonating It's Own Awakening.

I talked with one friend back in March, she is saying/seeing the same thing. She said some people are waking up with full blow memories. Regular folk, the ones some people call sheeple, (I don't agree with that BTW, it demeans people, eerghghhe.) People who have never been interested in anything alternative are simply one day waking up and some of the ones she has met even have blueprints for new technologies just full blown there, out of the Blue.

Exciting times we live in!!!!