Relationships

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as joke -saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”

How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.

The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.

There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.

Why?

Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.

This is why.

There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.

The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.

There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.

So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?

By allowing it to be, that’s how.

There is enormous power for change in allowing.

Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.

We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.

When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be
with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.

You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.

Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.

Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.

The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.

The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.

The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.

See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.

Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?

Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.

“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.

Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.

You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.

It’s a state of non-judgmental love.

The situation is as it is.

As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.

Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.

The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.

There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.

What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.

Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.

So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.

If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.

The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of unconditional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”

On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.

These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.

This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.

A stepping stone if you will.

At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.

All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.



PS This was pasted from a book I wrote about four years ago.

I am retired but was a health processional helping people with all kinds of emotional problems.


Many clients were helped to release anger.
I would say simple things like
"You know you ar going to forgive so why not now???"

I would also point our that the Major Countries were at War, millions were killed
and very soon after the end of the war we are engaged in friendships, almost a thought it never happened.

Chris

Ps Anger is totally non productive and can cause ulcers.
Anger invariably comes from fear of some kind.
Fear of not being loved
Fear of not being wanted /rejection/ being ridiculed.

You guys can add to the list-- its virtually endless

Chris

[The One]

Very uplifting thank you

Change your thoughts and you change your world

[Carmen]

Thanks Chris, that was a great description of relationships and especially the divine love aspect or level.

[Providence]

Thank you greybeard, very eloquent and wise.
I am in the midst of a personal struggle right now, this was perfect timing...
Peace

[ace]

Positive-side-to-anger........

Do you use anger in a positive or destructive way? The good news is that anger, when used positively, can create change in the world–and within.

“Most of us believe that other people or situations have the ability to make us angry. This is a big misconception,” according to Janet Pfeiffer, author of The Secret Side of Anger. “No individual or event has the power to make you mad. Anger is actually a choice, one that occurs depending on that person’s perception (thought).”

Pfeiffer, a certified violence counselor and motivational speaker, asserts that anger is not inherently negative. It is an important and useful emotion that can be used as a motivating force to bring about positive change. If I witness an injustice in society, my anger can serve as a propellant to create new laws. Anger becomes a negative force when it is used in a destructive manner, either to hurt one’s self, another or to damage property. Unresolved anger leads to resentment and bitterness and can damage one’s relationships, health, careers, and overall enjoyment of life.

Anger, by definition, is a feeling of distress brought about by feelings of helplessness or powerlessness says Pfeiffe. People create their own feelings of being victimized because they feel as though others are controlling them. We need to understand that power and control come from within. Each individual is responsible for choosing their own thoughts. No one else controls that. From there, everything else flows: thoughts generate emotion and we act out what we feel. Everything in this equation is about personal responsibility. A victim is one without power. Regaining our personal power eliminates feelings of helplessness and anger. Others no longer have the ability to push our buttons and make us mad.

Her tips on reducing anger include:

•Put everything into perspective. Ask yourself if the situation is worth getting upset about. If not, let it go. If it is important, identify what needs to change and create a plan to accomplish that. Switch your focus (thought) from the problem (negative) to the solution (positive).

•The moment you feel anger well up inside you, remember SWaT: Stop, Walk and Talk. Stop what you are doing. This prevents the situation from escalating. Next, Walk away. Creating distance allows you to calm down and cool off. “Out of sight, out of mind”. Third: Talk yourself calm. Discuss your feelings and situation with a neutral party, seeking deeper understanding and guidance. If no one is available, talk to yourself. Repeat calming statements such as “I am fine. I am calm. I can handle this is an intelligent and rational manner.”

•Create a “Peace Plan”: daily activities to engage in that will naturally reduce your levels of anger. Some of my favorites are aerobic exercise, prayer, meditation, music, nature and my dogs. Each of these naturally replaces stress and anger with feelings of peace and serenity.

•Even a simple act such as deep breathing or smiling will help alleviate anger.
“Some believe that if you have your health you have everything” she says. “I believe when you have inner peace you have it all.”


Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/inspirationreport/2010/05/the-positive-side-to-anger.html#ixzz1LPKfVJff

Ace

[greybeard]

I think it may help to have a scale of emotions.
Bearing in mind that emotions surface mainly in relationships

Anger is well down the scale but it gets one out of apathy
So the one next up will pull you out of the emotion below
Everything that is before courage tends to be selfish.
Courage onward you are aware of the needs/feelings of others and will increasingly put their needs wants desires before you own.
This one is taken from "Transcending Levels of Consciousness" written By Dr David Hawkins a prominent Psychiatrist.

Lowest first.


Shame
Guilt Apathy/hatred
Grief
Fear
Desire
Anger
Pride
----------
Courage
Neutrality
Willingness
Acceptance
Reason
Love
Unconditional love
Joy
Peace
Enlightenment

Keep in mind that one level is not better than--just different than.

Generally I was give this advice---"Put no head above or below your own" "Neither a follower or a leader be"

And on the subject of relationships -- never go to sleep without amicably resolving a diference, if humanly possible--

Chris

[greybeard]

The importance of understanding the mechanics of relationships is crucial

Why?????

The moment there is another there is something or some one to relate to

One quote "Hell is the other"

In this world we have opportunity to relate to--- have relationships.
How we understand the mechanics or not leads to a happy or not so happy life.

Relationships are not just one to one but clubs versus another one, forum verses another.

Work situations, family. the list is endless
There is nothing in this world that we dont relate to.

As said the relationship can be happy or unhappy.
Frankly if the relationship is unhappy it is down to a misunderstanding--its mind stuff.
From a small misunderstanding world wars can break out.
Divorce rate is high-- and on it goes.

What caused the problem?
Many things can, different points of view, different ways of looking things.

Everyone genuinely thinks they are right and doing the right thing--- that is everyone without exception is acting for the best.

The best from their point of view that is, (added to give clarity)

I hope I have covered some of it in the first post and certainly anyone who is interested in forming good relationships will find much
the Enlightenment:Ego, what is it? thread


Virtually every conflict, small or large, in the history of the Universe has been caused by ego or rather not fully understanding it.

Problem is-- some seem to enjoy a good "fight" even if just as a spectator sport

Chris

[greybeard]

Some times I feel I am preaching to the teachers.
There are many here who know more on the subject of spirituality, relationships, forgiveness and humility than I do.
I start a thread with the desire that information will be shared as a to way street.
I learn more from being "wrong" than being right.
So all points of view are of value to me.

Regards Chris

[edina]

HI greybeard, thanks for starting this thread, the way I see it, Spirit lives, moves and dwells in our relationships, in the spaces in between us, like the sweet fragrance in the air.

We are very quickly moving into a time frame where by everything we think and understand about ourselves, and therefore our relationships to our other selves, will become transformed.

Understanding the nature of relationship, from a mother to a child, a couple, friends, family, communities, tribes, nations, planetary beings,....these will become increasingly paramount, you have a wise heart dear friend.

Let's start sharing our concerns, and our wisdom, and start honing our relationship skills, so that together, arm upon arm, we may help each other through the days of our transformation...:)

[toothpick]

Hello greybeard, great thread.
I am learning a lot about anger that I didn,t know.
As far as relationships go, the only thing I know for sure is that, women are from Venus and men are from Mars.
It just like that is the very best describtion of a human to human relationship that I,ve ever heard.

toothpick

[edina]

I think it may help to have a scale of emotions.
Bearing in mind that emotions surface mainly in relationships

Anger is well down the scale but it gets one out of apathy
So the one next up will pull you out of the emotion below
Everything that is before courage tends to be selfish.
Courage onward you are aware of the needs/feelings of others and will increasingly put their needs wants desires before you own.
This one is taken from "Transcending Levels of Consciousness" written By Dr David Hawkins a prominent Psychiatrist.

Lowest first.


Shame
Guilt Apathy/hatred
Grief
Fear
Desire
Anger
Pride
----------
Courage
Neutrality
Willingness
Acceptance
Reason
Love
Unconditional love
Joy
Peace
Enlightenment

Keep in mind that one level is not better than--just different than.

Generally I was give this advice---"Put no head above or below your own" "Neither a follower or a leader be"

And on the subject of relationships -- never go to sleep without amicably resolving a diference, if humanly possible--

Chris

I just love all of David Hawkins material. Here's an image of the maps of consciousness that someone posted on the old Avalon, when they were doing a big, big, big Synchronous Global Meditation. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQrAIoATAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fprojectavalon.net%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D10926&rct=j&q=nexus%202012&ei=1FmoTa_fO4fZgQed3-TzBQ&usg=AFQjCNHCdtolqGzIg0TyAXE5Hnv3sEH5_g&cad=rja)
I believe that there were something like 2800 - 2900 people participating in this meditation.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Oops, forgot the map, Here you go!!! :)

http://weblogs.hianoto.net/wp-content/map-of-consciousness2.gif

http://weblogs.hianoto.net/wp-content/map-of-consciousness2.gif

[edina]

Okay one more spin off from the Hawkins ideas on the maps of consciousness and its relationship to relationships. I wonder if anyone remembers Ian Lundgren, he was another person that did many, many workshops on the Mayan Calendar. Ian has since died of cancer, he is very beloved of so many people. He had some cool ideas on how we can move up and down the scale of our emotions.

I think his take presented here may be helpful to this discussion. You guys let me know what you think. :) Hope you all enjoy!!!!

pQRhodz2phg

[greybeard]

Thanks so much Edina for your input.
I was very happy to be transported back to Avalon.
The first forum I felt a sense of belonging.
I still talk with Mudra from time to time.
I visited America for a David Hawkins seminar "Living the Prayer" excellent.

Chris

[edina]

I'll post this over at Nexus, too, I've noticed that different groups of people develop conversations in a different way, I think it must be the way the members of each group come together, part of the group soul/being theory. It's a Dinny theory just now, I wonder if there is any research out there on this? Do you know of any?

I started really noticing this phenomenon when I was an instructor at the 17th Air Force Leadership School, in my mid-twenties. Well, actually I was pretty certain of it by the time I went in Basic Training at 17, and was convinced of it when I saw the very different personalities of the seminars and then classes coming through while teaching.

I'm sure you've noticed a similar phenomenon in you work.

[greybeard]

I'll post this over at Nexus, too, I've noticed that different groups of people develop conversations in a different way, I think it must be the way the members of each group come together, part of the group soul/being theory. It's a Dinny theory just now, I wonder if there is any research out there on this? Do you know of any?

I started really noticing this phenomenon when I was an instructor at the 17th Air Force Leadership School, in my mid-twenties. Well, actually I was pretty certain of it by the time I went in Basic Training at 17, and was convinced of it when I saw the very different personalities of the seminars and then classes coming through while teaching.

I'm sure you've noticed a similar phenomenon in you work.

Im laughing at me.
We have just got the results of elections in Scotland.

The Scottish Nationalist Party has done exceedingly well--- winning a working majority.
All of a sudden I am very proud to be Scottish.
Identity runs very deep.
Pride in one's Country is good ---nationalism not so --- all isms separate-- they create a chasm.
So I forgot I am first spirit and second a human being-- male Scottish.

Relationships are what the mind says they are --- labels --- friend or foe.
The ego is divisive and its last refuge is specialness.
All of a sudden there are followers of perceived specialness, a group identity forms which sets the relationship between those who follow and those who dont.


Chris

[K626]

Happy for you Chris me old mucka.

cheers

K

[greybeard]

The Dinny theory is correct edina
A lot of work has been done on the felt need for a group identity
The need to bond to have an Alpha male or female leading.
The in language that developpes
In UK the Upper class have etiquette and a certain use of language-- an "outsider" can be spotted in moments by inappropriate action or language-- its very subtle

So relationships instead of uniting tend to isolate and divide.
You either fit or you dont.
A longtime ago I decide just to be me -- I dont "belong" to any club or forum -- I may be a member but that is different.
If I belong, that belonging owns me and I have responsibility to the group image.
To err is to be ostracized.

More thoughts and opinions appreciated.

Chris

[edina]

Hey greybeard, I just watched a video that giovonni posted over in her friends thread, the laughing Bhudda, it seems relevant to what you are talking about here aka, laughing at yourself. :)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?255-Friends&p=207371#post207371

[greybeard]

Relationships. Thought I would bump this


Relationships


There is as joke -saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”

How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.

The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.

There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.

Why?

Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.

This is why.

There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.

The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.

There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.

So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?

By allowing it to be, that’s how.

There is enormous power for change in allowing.

Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.

We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.

When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be
with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.

You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.

Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.

Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.

The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.

The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.

The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.

See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.

Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?

Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.

“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.

Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.

You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.

It’s a state of non-judgmental love.

The situation is as it is.

As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.

Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.

The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.

There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.

What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.

Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.

So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.

If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.

The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of unconditional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”

On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.

These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.

This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.

A stepping stone if you will.

At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.

All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.



PS This was pasted from a book I wrote about four years ago.

I am retired but was a health processional helping people with all kinds of emotional problems.


Many clients were helped to release anger.
I would say simple things like
"You know you ar going to forgive so why not now???"

I would also point our that the Major Countries were at War, millions were killed
and very soon after the end of the war we are engaged in friendships, almost a thought it never happened.

Chris

Ps Anger is totally non productive and can cause ulcers.
Anger invariably comes from fear of some kind.
Fear of not being loved
Fear of not being wanted /rejection/ being ridiculed.

You guys can add to the list-- its virtually endless

Chris

[Ba-ba-Ra]

The Dinny theory is correct edina
A lot of work has been done on the felt need for a group identity
The need to bond to have an Alpha male or female leading.
The in language that developpes
In UK the Upper class have etiquette and a certain use of language-- an "outsider" can be spotted in moments by inappropriate action or language-- its very subtle

So relationships instead of uniting tend to isolate and divide.
You either fit or you dont.
A longtime ago I decide just to be me -- I dont "belong" to any club or forum -- I may be a member but that is different.
If I belong, that belonging owns me and I have responsibility to the group image.
To err is to be ostracized.

More thoughts and opinions appreciated.

Chris


You might as well be yourself, everyone else is taken.

I believe said by Oscar Wilde but not sure and it doesn't matter - it's the concept that's important.

[Flash]

In relationships, almost everybody do their best with what they are. If we would remember this, insteand of accusing, it would make resolving difficulties much easier. Giving the benefit of the doubt. Of course unless we are dealing with a psychopath. And even there, he does the best with what he is, what he is is just not that constructive for others.

One day I was taking a course in corporate management and the trainer said "nobody wakes up in the morning saying to himself "today I will do the worst I am able of"" to which I raised my hand and answered "yes, my husband does" - we were divorcing at the time lol. Of course, I was joking in view of my situation and my usual thinking if I was not making an effort to change it. But she was right, most of us wake up wanting to do the best we can, mostly in relationsips.

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as joke -saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”

How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.

The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.

There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.

Why?

Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.

This is why.

There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.

The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.

There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.

So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?

By allowing it to be, that’s how.

There is enormous power for change in allowing.

Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.

We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.

When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be
with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.

You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.

Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.

Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.

The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.

The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.

The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.

See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.

Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?

Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.

“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.

Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.

You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.

It’s a state of non-judgmental love.

The situation is as it is.

As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.

Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.

The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.

There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.

What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.

Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.

So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.

If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.

The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of unconditional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”

On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.

These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.

This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.

A stepping stone if you will.

At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.

All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.



PS This was pasted from a book I wrote about four years ago.

I am retired but was a health processional helping people with all kinds of emotional problems.


Many clients were helped to release anger.
I would say simple things like
"You know you ar going to forgive so why not now???"

I would also point our that the Major Countries were at War, millions were killed
and very soon after the end of the war we are engaged in friendships, almost a thought it never happened.

Chris

Ps Anger is totally non productive and can cause ulcers.
Anger invariably comes from fear of some kind.
Fear of not being loved
Fear of not being wanted /rejection/ being ridiculed.

You guys can add to the list-- its virtually endless

Chris

It came to mind to bump post this---always an important topic and relationships are far from easy.

Wow I said a lot way back then--what happened? Lol

Chris

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as joke -saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”

How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.

The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.

There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.

Why?

Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.

This is why.

There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.

The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.

There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.

So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?

By allowing it to be, that’s how.

There is enormous power for change in allowing.

Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.

We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.

When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be
with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.

You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.

Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.

Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.

The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.

The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.

The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.

See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.

Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?

Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.

“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.

Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.

You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.

It’s a state of non-judgmental love.

The situation is as it is.

As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.

Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.

The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.

There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.

What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.

Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.

So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.

If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.

The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of unconditional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”

On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.

These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.

This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.

A stepping stone if you will.

At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.

All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.



PS This was pasted from a book I wrote about four years ago.

I am retired but was a health processional helping people with all kinds of emotional problems.


Many clients were helped to release anger.
I would say simple things like
"You know you ar going to forgive so why not now???"

I would also point our that the Major Countries were at War, millions were killed
and very soon after the end of the war we are engaged in friendships, almost a thought it never happened.

Chris

Ps Anger is totally non productive and can cause ulcers.
Anger invariably comes from fear of some kind.
Fear of not being loved
Fear of not being wanted /rejection/ being ridiculed.

You guys can add to the list-- its virtually endless

Chris

I bumped this because --I felt like it--smiling
However after the parenting discussion a fresh start on relationships might be a good idea---

Chris

[greybeard]

Thanks for the thanks but what do you guys think of love?

Chris

[lake]

Well not exactly lol (nice thoughts though, I enjoyed reading it but those thoughts regarding 'love' shouldn’t be considered as correct in my opinion)


t’s a state of non-judgmental love.

this is the issue for me....its not love it is empathy.......love limits you to a consideration of YOUR own thinking where as empathy dictates that YOU become a part of ANOTHER!

I posted regarding this concept a time ago:

Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70969-Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology)

but it is not an issue that most wish to analyze?

love is a selfish action of the ego


Love shouts.......”I love you, you should thank me”

Empathy asks....”I can see that, how can I help you”

Love creates morals within the self.......for the self

Empathy creates morals within the self....for another

this is why i want a conversation mate

:)

[Rich]

Thanks for the thanks but what do you guys think of love?

Chris

That question made me chuckle ;)

Actually only reason I thanked your above post is because it said "you just want to be home with God" ...you nailed it.

[greybeard]

Depending on the mood I am in at the moment I post.
You could get entirely different points of view from me which are valid in the moment.

I could say love is "humbug" you are better without it-- a good solid friendship is better.
Or finest thing since sliced bread and you cant define it.

My though is that it is an energy thing--Im not that fond of the word love to be honest.

There is an attraction that is beyond words--it can be raw and extremely sexual.
The film "Mr and Mrs Smith" kind of summed that up--they just about killed each other--but then again they w were assassins for hire.
Im not sure I believe in love, as such, of the forever kind---people change.

I can see the point of having a mistress--works for some.
I can see it possible to be equally fond of two or more people of the opposite sex.

Thats a start to discussion.

Chris

[Rich]

lake with the definition you listed it's probably true that love is of the ego but that's not how I use the word and maybe others especially in spiritual circles it means to see the oneness.

[greybeard]

Thanks for the thanks but what do you guys think of love?

Chris

That question made me chuckle ;)

Actually only reason I thanked your above post is because it said "you just want to be home with God" ...you nailed it.

Yes thats ultimate.
Im listening as I type to Stephen Wolinsky said about Nasargadatta his Guru.
He was the only person that he had met that wanted absolutely nothing from him--that kind of sums it up.

--I like it here but going home is looked forward to.

Chris

[Dianamar]

Thanks for the thanks but what do you guys think of love?

Chris

I think love is something that can flourish between people who are compatible and in the right environment. IMO take those two elements away and it can become a trap for many.

[lake]

I think love is something that can flourish ....

Cool.......so WHAT is love....please if you can.......define it

ta
:)

[greybeard]

Many people have a need for intimacy, thats a good word.

There have been times I have been scared of love.
Im using the word " love" for the purpose of communicating on this thread.
I was scared of the responsibility of meeting some one else's expectation.
Depending on my age and maturity.

It was ok for me to love then I was in control--not of the other but of the situation if that makes sense.
I did not want to feel bought or owing in any way.

If you had a buddy just for sex and friendship then I see that as very honest--you and the other know exactly where you stand.
The other would actually have to be special in order to see it for what it is--like going to play squash with some one your equal--or going dancing--you name it.

That is out with my experience but it was on my wish list when I was single.

Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Great we have a feminine perspective--my friend Dianamar.
Chris

[lake]

What do you consider hate to be mate?

Its said that the oppossite of love is not hate but indifference!

Would you agree with this?

[greybeard]

Women like to be the priority in a mans life--the very significant other and I really get that.
They do not want you to be their doormat--they seem to want a man to be that little bit stronger so that they can depend on them in times of trouble.

One told me that God was the first love in my life--she loved God too but wanted to be the priority.
I accepted that, but did not promote her above my desire to know the spiritual Truth.

Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤


What do you consider hate to be mate?

Its said that the oppossite of love is not hate but indifference!

Would you agree with this?

Love me hate me but don't ignore me--- kinda sums it up, lake.

I have to quit now --been a busy day.

Chris

[Dianamar]

I think love is something that can flourish ....

Cool.......so WHAT is love....please if you can.......define it

ta
:)

it is in the eye of the beholder. subjective to ones own myriad of feelings and mindset.

[Flash]

The way I lived love seems quite different to me.

At a younger age, when I was thinking "does he love me", I was in fact meaning "does he want me, need me, does his ego vibrate" and the reverse for "do I love him". In fact, I now think I truly did not know what love was, and mostly I did not feel worthy of anything, so I surely could not receive true love.. Same with friends, this kind of ego love I had or they had, as a matter of fact, many of my friends are still at that kind of love, If their needs aren't met somewhere, the friendship is gone.

However, for other friends, it is no more the case. I know I could be whomever I want to be, or plainly nobody, and they would still be around, for the sake of being.

Then my dad died. I was really sad. Something like 3 months after his death, he showed up for the second time. He was sitting on a chair, looking at me. I was sooooo happy to see him. Then suddenly, an inflow of love was spread on and in me, as if every single cell of my body and heart had been dipped in a bath of love. This was the first time I experience something that great, that unconditional.

THen, my form of love grew, changed, but still more when I got my child, at an older age (I had been self centered long enough to know what self centered means). Someone had told me that she had a constant love tranfer with her daugther, like a fine thread connection. My first impression with my own daughter was "a fine thread!!!" it is not a fine thread, it is a humongous river connecting both of us. Of course, part of it was from being overlwhemed with oxytocin, the hormone released in new moms to foster their attachment to the new child. Therefore still 3D ego based.

Then, I met a spiritual master, who told me a single sentence, which I do not even remember. But I cried for 3 months, not completely understanding why. The only thing I finally understood after 3 months was that if I had not had this crying experience, which transformed me, I would not have been able to love the way I did, and my daughter would have suffered from this.

Later on, when she was 8 months old, I had just finished giving her her milk and was in my bed, with her beside me - she was a kid who had neurological impairments and would literally never sleep for long periods - so I would keep her beside me in my bed, to take care of her when she awoke but I would still being able to fall back asleep fast enough afterwards. Anyhow, on that day, I had a mystical experience. I have no idea how long it was, one second, one minute, one hour, but it was great. I got into my eternal Self. The only way to describe it is "i was, I am, I will be" and nothing truly matters, not even that wonderful very much desired daughter I had. I understood that this present life is not even a blink of an eye, in eternity, and that whatever I do which creates disbalance could be corrected at another time/life/space (there is not time or space in the eternal I). I came back from this with tremendous peace, which made me once again completely different towards my daughter. In fact, unconditional love truly started there.

I started loving my baby just for being here, period. This large river quadrupled in size. THank God I had this to support me throughout her education, it gave me the courage to implement a very long and tedious and expensive global therapies that went on for 16 years, and produced miracles. This enormous, unconditional love was my driving force. No question asked, you do what is needed when it is needed, and search the whole planet for help. Lots of work, a very heavy weight, lots of anxiety for my daughter, but truly, no burden felt. I did not feel it as a burden but rather as an honour to serve love.

Then, of course, this kind of love gets transfered to all around you, even when one is exhausted. It does not mean that I accept everything from everyone, not at all - I may chase them away when obnoxious, but I still love them. I did train many corporate people for years, standing up form 8 Am to 5PM, very tiring, and most morning, I would start my day by centering myself and thinking / feeling " I love all of you with me today". When I would do this, the day would go fine, when I would not and wanted the specifics of the course to be learned, I would have difficulties with the participants. One day, a high level executive asked me "what do you do to be so damn good"? I answered "I usually do not tell it, because you all, executive, may think yeurky, too feely touchy, but the main reason I am that good is because I LOVE YOU, ALL OF YOU". He started laughing, not knowing if I was joking or not, but I could see he was moved.

Then life went on, and I got some problems with my daughter (hence Parkes taking good care of her when she got to be 16, doing the night shift (his daytime) on skype with her when needed so that I could sleep) and some anger came through me and had to be solved, etc.

Then, lately, it is love for myself, what is deemed as problems and good points and all, that is arising. Unconditional. I am whom I am, period - and it is beautiful. Of course after heart pain from some new boyfriends (I had been alone all the time I raised my daughter, I did not have time for any partner, so new relationships were exciting, scary but worthwhile).

With this attitude, of course I met a loving man. For a year now, and it is soooooo good.

Then, a few months ago, another mystic experience took me - the inflow of energy was incredible. I could barely breath for about 15 minutes because the energy filling me was so strong. I looked at everyone around and could see their light. They were beautiful. I told someone beside me "wow, you are so beautiful" laughing and crying of joy. I understood that negativity was gone.

Since, negativity is very difficult to handle, I cannot keep it in as I did before, I was at time an expert at being unhappy lolllllllll. Therefore, I am now mostly positive and relax. This is another step into unconditional love. It passes through you, and you are the conduit sending it around.

And the heart chakra buzzes all the time.

I am truly grateful to the universe to allow me these wonderful experiences.

And these relationsips with humans, nature, the universe, my SELF, and most probably God.

But yet, quite realistic and down to earth.


, thi

Well not exactly lol (nice thoughts though, I enjoyed reading it but those thoughts regarding 'love' shouldn’t be considered as correct in my opinion)


t’s a state of non-judgmental love.

this is the issue for me....its not love it is empathy.......love limits you to a consideration of YOUR own thinking where as empathy dictates that YOU become a part of ANOTHER!

I posted regarding this concept a time ago:

Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70969-Love-Empathy-Morals-and-Technology)

but it is not an issue that most wish to analyze?

love is a selfish action of the ego


Love shouts.......”I love you, you should thank me”

Empathy asks....”I can see that, how can I help you”

Love creates morals within the self.......for the self

Empathy creates morals within the self....for another

this is why i want a conversation mate

:)

[greybeard]

Love is all in the imagination---
I feel free to contradict my self--smiling
If you have not had a dog for a pet then you dont know what love is--substitute any pet you have affection for.

Chris

[greybeard]

I had typed a whole lot more and it was lost due to loss of Internet.

Love is knowing that there is One Self which resides in the seeming other.
Namaste means ---"I greet the God within you"

My first love was a sailing dinghy called Cherie--The previous owner was Mr Darling.

Love wells up in you at the sight of the other---object of love.

"Divine Romance" by Yogananda a good book

A feeling of being loved happens in meditation--perhaps a better word is Bliss.

Love is being able to let go of your significant other if they want to leave the relationship, wishing them all they would wish themselves.--No animosity.

Enough for now.

Chris

[greybeard]

On refection with a little push from lake
I can see that empathy is a better and more accurate word in many cases than the over use of the word love.

Nisargadatta said that unconditional love is not possible for the unenlightened as even in the giving or helping there is a degree of self satisfaction--ie ego.

Give anyway, help anyway--- smiling.

Ch

[Flash]

Interesting. I precisely had a discission on that this morning. The love which is almost always in fact ego based. True, in this case, we are better off talking about empathy.

The discussion i had was on the love that is produced by the answer to one's needs, which in my views ends up decreasing with time as needs change, versus love because it gets out of your heart automatically, up to a point where the feeling is *it loves* as if LOVE is only using you as a channel, it loves through you. IT being the love vibration itself.

When this happens, you may end up wanting to satisfy others needs, out of love, withou any self involvement in an ego base fashion. If both relationship partners are process love through their being that way, you may end up with evolving fulfilling 40 years marriages - having desire to fulfill the partners needs and reciprocally

Very rare indeed

Even love for one's children is often based on our own perception of what is necessary or correct instead of on what is required to maximize the child own individual potentials independently of the parent's desires. In other words, letting love for your children flow through you.

As i grow old, i realize that the universe is filled with love. Our job is simply to take off the stumbling blocks stopping that energy going through us.

I also realize that the universe is reflecting to us, in a very precise manner, who we are, shadows and lights, both. Here the reasoning behind the saying Know thyself, and knie the shadow but do not focus on it, focus on light or love if you want the universe to reflect those back.






On refection with a little push from lake
I can see that empathy is a better and more accurate word in many cases than the over use of the word love.

Nisargadatta said that unconditional love is not possible for the unenlightened as even in the giving or helping there is a degree of self satisfaction--ie ego.

Give anyway, help anyway--- smiling.

Ch

[greybeard]

From time to time I mention the "Map of Consciousness" by the late Dr David Hawkins.
Basically we each express empathy from the level of our vibration---as we evolve the wants, needs and expectation that some one else is responsible for making us happy decreases.
More or less as said by Flash.

Different strokes for different folks---mixing different levels of vibration does not work, even if one member of the relationship is very empathic..
This might be taken as weakness by the other and disrespect would follow.

Chris