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Lord Sidious
11th May 2011, 10:04
If you REALLY want to know the truth of this, research the background of Eric Arthur Blair.
There is a reason his books, 1984 and Animal Farm are so accurate.

[ mod-edit: The following posts were initially part of the China: The New Bin Laden (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20271-China-The-New-Bin-Laden) thread. I split them off to a separate dedicated thread. -Paul. ]

777
11th May 2011, 11:33
If you REALLY want to know the truth of this, research the background of Eric Arthur Blair.
There is a reason his books, 1984 and Animal Farm are so accurate.

Educated at Eton and Cambridge.......spawning ground for the elite. Is this what you meant?

Mike Gorman
11th May 2011, 12:50
They are 'accurate' because he was a man of considerable intelligence, observational astuteness and rigorous honesty; he could see the
emerging trends of Soviet Oligarchic politics, the bleak post-war pragmatism of Britain and the absence of what Gramsci called 'political consciousness'
in the masses-social control and hypocrisy are pretty safe bets when you think about it......

Lord Sidious
11th May 2011, 12:58
If you REALLY want to know the truth of this, research the background of Eric Arthur Blair.
There is a reason his books, 1984 and Animal Farm are so accurate.

Educated at Eton and Cambridge.......spawning ground for the elite. Is this what you meant?

Look more into his associations.

AuCo
11th May 2011, 13:38
Are they saying now that bin Laden IS dead, the next 911^10 would not possibly be attributed to this man but only by China? Quite a blatant in-your-face kinda message to Beijing, me think. Whoa! I see LA in the crosshair. Watch out folks!

seko
11th May 2011, 14:06
If you REALLY want to know the truth of this, research the background of Eric Arthur Blair.
There is a reason his books, 1984 and Animal Farm are so accurate.

Educated at Eton and Cambridge.......spawning ground for the elite. Is this what you meant?

Look more into his associations.

As I understand it, seems that he was against totalitarianism and social injustice......1984. To me that is a sad movie, I was trying to stop watching this movie, but I watched all. I don't want to see it again. Not something that I would like to experience.

Lord Sidious
11th May 2011, 14:14
If you REALLY want to know the truth of this, research the background of Eric Arthur Blair.
There is a reason his books, 1984 and Animal Farm are so accurate.

Educated at Eton and Cambridge.......spawning ground for the elite. Is this what you meant?

Look more into his associations.

As I understand it, seems that he was against totalitarianism and social injustice......1984. To me that is a sad movie, I was trying to stop watching this movie, but I watched all. I don't want to see it again. Not something that I would like to experience.

He was, that is why he wrote them.
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?

Corncrake
11th May 2011, 17:27
George Orwell was one of the most impressive writers/journalists of his generation who sadly died far too young from TB which he may have picked up when living 'Down and Out in Paris and London' - for those who have not read it - a highly entertaining read. The Road to Wigan Pier also examines poverty in Britain and is still relevant today. He did go to Eton but on a scholarship and was really not part of the ruling elite. 1984 is a bleak book and sadly prophetic. Orwell was totally opposed to totalitarianism and Animal Farm was a parody of Stalinism. For those of you who have done the London tourism thing - a plaque dedicated to Eric Blair can be seen on his very humble little house in Portobello Road.

Davidallany
11th May 2011, 23:30
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?
One may think that he was a high ranking intelligence officer with political science background to be able to get his information.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 00:05
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?
One may think that he was a high ranking intelligence officer with political science background to be able to get his information.

Nope, keep checking.

DouglasDanger
12th May 2011, 02:11
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?
One may think that he was a high ranking intelligence officer with political science background to be able to get his information.

Nope, keep checking.

No checking.. just a stab into the dark with my light saber.... since his last name is Blair I'm going to say he was in with the elite, through birth rite/ family orginizations . He didn't like what he saw or heard during his inclusions in things, so he wrote under a sudonym to try and warn the rest of the world what is coming. They liked what he wrote ( TPTB) and used his book as a template on how to go about getting the things implemented.?

Positive Vibe Merchant
12th May 2011, 07:12
I like your attempt DD.

Care to comment Lord?

BTW, many thanks to KT for the recent smashing of quality topics the last day or so.

Much Respect to you
PVM

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 11:59
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?
One may think that he was a high ranking intelligence officer with political science background to be able to get his information.

Nope, keep checking.

No checking.. just a stab into the dark with my light saber.... since his last name is Blair I'm going to say he was in with the elite, through birth rite/ family orginizations . He didn't like what he saw or heard during his inclusions in things, so he wrote under a sudonym to try and warn the rest of the world what is coming. They liked what he wrote ( TPTB) and used his book as a template on how to go about getting the things implemented.?

Partially correct, the end is not correct, they did not copy him.
Keep looking around, I want you guys to find this yourselves.
It is not hard to find out.

oceanz
12th May 2011, 12:27
Maybe information from his friend Tosco Fyvel (1907-1985). He was Jewish; his parents had emigrated from Vienna to what was then Palestine, where he was associated with the Zionist movement and had worked with Golda Meir. Orwell and he met in January 1940, with Fredric Warburg and others.

Golda Meir - fourth prime minister of the state of Israel.

yaksuit
12th May 2011, 13:16
Yevgeny Zamyatin "was a Russian author, most famous for his 1921 novel We, a story set in a dystopian future which influenced George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Zamyatin

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 14:04
Nope, you are off course, keep looking.
LOOK AT HIS ASSOCIATIONS!!

yaksuit
12th May 2011, 14:19
Nope, you are off course, keep looking.
LOOK AT HIS ASSOCIATIONS!!

Jesuits...............?

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 14:40
Nope, you are off course, keep looking.
LOOK AT HIS ASSOCIATIONS!!

Jesuits...............?

There is no need to guess, it is not hidden.
Look in the forest, that is where all the trees are.

yaksuit
12th May 2011, 14:49
Nope, you are off course, keep looking.
LOOK AT HIS ASSOCIATIONS!!

Jesuits...............?

There is no need to guess, it is not hidden.
Look in the forest, that is where all the trees are.

True....The squirrels are entertaining ;)

seko
12th May 2011, 15:59
The question I put to you avalonuggets, is where did he get the info for the books?
One may think that he was a high ranking intelligence officer with political science background to be able to get his information.

Nope, keep checking.


No checking.. just a stab into the dark with my light saber.... since his last name is Blair I'm going to say he was in with the elite, through birth rite/ family orginizations . He didn't like what he saw or heard during his inclusions in things, so he wrote under a sudonym to try and warn the rest of the world what is coming. They liked what he wrote ( TPTB) and used his book as a template on how to go about getting the things implemented.?

Partially correct, the end is not correct, they did not copy him.
Keep looking around, I want you guys to find this yourselves.
It is not hard to find out.

He went to Eton, one of his colleagues was Cyrill Connolly(British writer) who helped him to publish his essays. Was taught some french by Aldous Huxley at Eton( who sent him a letter after reading his book 1984 congratulating him on how fine and how profoundly important his book was. He worked with Roger Mynors to produce a college magazine. He was an expert on ancient church manuscripts, was knighted in 1966 and married Lavinia Allington the daughter of Cyrill Allington head master of Eton and Dean of Durham.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 16:13
None of that. Keep looking.

Metaphor
12th May 2011, 19:01
Friend of TS Elliot and others, none of them with any official significance to where you are pointing sidious. It is also pointed out in various biographies that he was involved with MI6, perhaps partially because his knowledge of wich prominent, one being Charlie Chaplin, people was pro-communist.
He was against communism, zionism and nazism. He was and is highly regarded by theosophists... but I give up, I havent found any real good clue after some serious digging on the net, i cant get what you are pointing at. How did he gain the knowledge to write stuff like "1984"?
You like to play hide and seek, huh? Well this game of yours has a lot of seeking and hiding alright.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 19:06
Friend of TS Elliot and others, none of them with any official significance to where you are pointing sidious. It is also pointed out in various biographies that he was involved with MI6, perhaps partially because his knowledge of wich prominent, one being Charlie Chaplin, people was pro-communist.
He was against communism, zionism and nazism. He was and is highly regarded by theosophists... but I give up, I havent found any real good clue after some serious digging on the net, i cant get what you are pointing at. How did he gain the knowledge to write stuff like "1984"?
You like to play hide and seek, huh? Well this game of yours has a lot of seeking and hiding alright.

There is no wisdom to be gained by you or any of us by having things handed to them on a plate.
If I told you, you wouldn't have read what you have, would you?
I will give you a hint, wolves in sheeps clothing.

Metaphor
12th May 2011, 19:22
Ahhhh... Fabian soceity!
:-D
http://www.silver-investor.com/charlessavoie/images/cs_may05b.jpg

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 19:25
Ahhhh... Fabian soceity!
:-D
http://www.silver-investor.com/charlessavoie/images/cs_may05b.jpg

Right, off you go then.
Nugget. :p

Metaphor
12th May 2011, 19:31
Nugget, had to look that one up too...
"In Scotland, a nugget means "idiot" in it's purest term. You can use nugget in both an offensive and friendly context.
Offensive: "Whit u lookin at, ya ****in nugget"
Friendly: "Aw, dinnae be a nugget man, lets gan get some drink"

Or

"A person with no arms or legs."

I´ll go for the first example then... in the friendly context.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 19:35
Nugget, had to look that one up too...
"In Scotland, a nugget means "idiot" in it's purest term. You can use nugget in both an offensive and friendly context.
Offensive: "Whit u lookin at, ya ****in nugget"
Friendly: "Aw, dinnae be a nugget man, lets gan get some drink"

Or

"A person with no arms or legs."

I´ll go for the first example then... in the friendly context.

I am not scots, I am from Naboo.

Ouroboros
12th May 2011, 19:43
Just finished re-reading 1984 after reading it as a teenager. It is unnerving in its accurate portrayal of todays society. Orwell, Huxley and HG Wells in my opinion was privvy to agendas and global strategies reaching into current times. If any Avalonians have not read 1984 I strongly urge you to read this wonderfully prophetic book.

Flash
12th May 2011, 19:48
Interesting, I always wonders what the Douglas-Coldwell Foundation in Canada was about. I did not know about the Fabian society. I must say that Canada is a social democracy but did not know it had been influenced by a British Society. Corrected: Before Harper and the Conservative

Widipedia:
The Douglas-Coldwell Foundation is a Canadian think tank devoted, in the words of its slogan, to "promoting education and research into social democracy." It was founded in 1971, and is based in Ottawa. The Foundation was named for and inspired by Tommy Douglas, the first federal leader of the New Democratic Party from 1961 to 1971, and M. J. Coldwell, leader of its predecessor Co-operative Commonwealth Federation from 1942 to 1960. Both had desired a Canadian counterpart to the Fabian Society.

The foundation board:
Board of Directors
Honourary Patrons Allan Blakeney
Ed Broadbent - The new opposition party , he was its leader for quite a while, social democrats
Shirley Douglas
Howard Pawley
Term
Board of Directors David Mackenzie, President to 2011
Jesse Brady, Vice President to 2012
Anne Scotton, Executive Secretary to 2013
Pat Kerwin, Treasurer to 2011
Tessa Hebb, Past President to 2013
Erin Armstrong to 2011
Kealey Cummings to 2013
Phyllis Dietrich to 2012
David Illman-White to 2012
Howard Leeson to 2013
Alexa McDonough to 2011
Diane O'Reggio to 2013
Peter Stoffer, MP to 2012
Dick Proctor to 2013
Lynn Williams to 2011
Kevin Wright

Not that powerfull in Canada. Lord Sidious, what is the link between the FAbian Society - Goerge Orwell, China, Bin Laden? This is quite opaque to me.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 19:52
Interesting, I always wonders what the Douglas-Coldwell Foundation in Canada was about. I did not know about the Fabian society. I must say that Canada is a social democracy but did not know it had been influenced by a British Society. Corrected: Before Harper and the Conservative

Widipedia:
The Douglas-Coldwell Foundation is a Canadian think tank devoted, in the words of its slogan, to "promoting education and research into social democracy." It was founded in 1971, and is based in Ottawa. The Foundation was named for and inspired by Tommy Douglas, the first federal leader of the New Democratic Party from 1961 to 1971, and M. J. Coldwell, leader of its predecessor Co-operative Commonwealth Federation from 1942 to 1960. Both had desired a Canadian counterpart to the Fabian Society.

The foundation board:
Board of Directors
Honourary Patrons Allan Blakeney
Ed Broadbent - The new opposition party , he was its leader for quite a while, social democrats
Shirley Douglas
Howard Pawley
Term
Board of Directors David Mackenzie, President to 2011
Jesse Brady, Vice President to 2012
Anne Scotton, Executive Secretary to 2013
Pat Kerwin, Treasurer to 2011
Tessa Hebb, Past President to 2013
Erin Armstrong to 2011
Kealey Cummings to 2013
Phyllis Dietrich to 2012
David Illman-White to 2012
Howard Leeson to 2013
Alexa McDonough to 2011
Diane O'Reggio to 2013
Peter Stoffer, MP to 2012
Dick Proctor to 2013
Lynn Williams to 2011
Kevin Wright

Not that powerfull in Canada. Lord Sidious, what is the link between the FAbian Society - Goerge Orwell, China, Bin Laden? This is quite opaque to me.

People wanted to know about Eric Arthur Blair, I am taking you on a roadtrip.
You wanna come for the ride?

Metaphor
12th May 2011, 19:57
Nugget, had to look that one up too...
"In Scotland, a nugget means "idiot" in it's purest term. You can use nugget in both an offensive and friendly context.
Offensive: "Whit u lookin at, ya ****in nugget"
Friendly: "Aw, dinnae be a nugget man, lets gan get some drink"

Or

"A person with no arms or legs."

I´ll go for the first example then... in the friendly context.

I am not scots, I am from Naboo.

Naboo? OK, must be number two then, haha

Yes, this is an intersting ride. Lets continue.
One can wonder if books and films like 1984 et etc are a bit like the chicken and the egg, wich comes first?
Or are they being picked up by us, from our common subconscious? Or even being injected there to manifest in the future, by some malevolent beings?

Edit:
Latest find here (http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/EntityDisplay.php?Entity=OrwellG)

"Orwell was introduced to the Fabian Society by his French teacher and lifelong friend Aldous Huxley. However, he later became disenchanted with the Fabian Society and it is now thought his book 1984 (a title chosen to mark the 100th anniversary of the Fabians) was really a satirical polemic describing the kind of world he believed the Fabians would achieve. The Fabian Society acquired and sealed the archives of Orwell when his second wife Sonia died some years ago. According to representatives of the publishing company Harper Collins, the Fabians will be in control of the "1984" copyright and name through the year 2025, and they have done their best to block unauthorized investigative research about Orwell's anti-socialist works. Even rights to Orwell's estate fell under control of the Fabian Society. "

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 20:22
Nugget, had to look that one up too...
"In Scotland, a nugget means "idiot" in it's purest term. You can use nugget in both an offensive and friendly context.
Offensive: "Whit u lookin at, ya ****in nugget"
Friendly: "Aw, dinnae be a nugget man, lets gan get some drink"

Or

"A person with no arms or legs."

I´ll go for the first example then... in the friendly context.

I am not scots, I am from Naboo.

Naboo? OK, must be number two then, haha

Yes, this is an intersting ride. Lets continue.
One can wonder if books and films like 1984 et etc are a bit like the chicken and the egg, wich comes first?
Or are they being picked up by us, from our common subconscious? Or even being injected there to manifest in the future, by some malevolent beings?

Edit:
Latest find here (http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/EntityDisplay.php?Entity=OrwellG)

"Orwell was introduced to the Fabian Society by his French teacher and lifelong friend Aldous Huxley. However, he later became disenchanted with the Fabian Society and it is now thought his book 1984 (a title chosen to mark the 100th anniversary of the Fabians) was really a satirical polemic describing the kind of world he believed the Fabians would achieve. The Fabian Society acquired and sealed the archives of Orwell when his second wife Sonia died some years ago. According to representatives of the publishing company Harper Collins, the Fabians will be in control of the "1984" copyright and name through the year 2025, and they have done their best to block unauthorized investigative research about Orwell's anti-socialist works. Even rights to Orwell's estate fell under control of the Fabian Society. "

They were written for a reason.

seko
12th May 2011, 20:28
The Fabian society in the Uk has the Labour Party affiliated to it. He joined the Labour party in 1938. Famous Members of the Fabian society HG Wells, George Orwell, Virginia Wolf.

Metaphor
12th May 2011, 20:29
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

seko
12th May 2011, 21:54
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

Fantastic, thanks for sharing it Metaphor and L.S. for pushing us to search the truth.

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 22:03
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

Fantastic, thanks for sharing it Metaphor and L.S. for pushing us to search the truth.

Don't get too excited, you aren't there yet.

yaksuit
12th May 2011, 22:45
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

Fantastic, thanks for sharing it Metaphor and L.S. for pushing us to search the truth.

Don't get too excited, you aren't there yet.

Eric Arthur Blairs father was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason?
And his dad was also a not so distant relative of Tony Blair?

Lord Sidious
12th May 2011, 22:46
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

Fantastic, thanks for sharing it Metaphor and L.S. for pushing us to search the truth.

Don't get too excited, you aren't there yet.

Eric Arthur Blairs father was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason?.
And his dad was also a not so distant relative of Tony Blair?

Tony Blairs real name is not Blair.
Keep going.

oceanz
12th May 2011, 22:55
Maybe information from his friend Tosco Fyvel (1907-1985). He was Jewish; his parents had emigrated from Vienna to what was then Palestine, where he was associated with the Zionist movement and had worked with Golda Meir. Orwell and he met in January 1940, with Fredric Warburg and others.

Golda Meir - fourth prime minister of the state of Israel.

In 1952 Fredric Warburg became a member of the committee of the Society for Cultural Freedom (S.C.F.), an organisation established to 'promote Western culture and defend it against the communist culture of the East'.[4] The S.C.F. were to produce a cultural magazine, Encounter, which was later to receive sustained criticism when it emerged that much of the money used to produce the magazine came directly from the CIA.

Thomas W. Braden, who headed the CIA's International Organizations Division's operations between 1951 to 1954, said that the money for the Encounter magazine (and Der Monat - another publication) "came from CIA, and few outside the CIA knew about it. We had placed one agent in a Europe-based organization of intellectuals called the "Congress for Cultural Freedom." (today Association for Cultural Freedom).

Melvin J. Lasky became editor of The New Leader and, later, of the German-language Der Monat ("The Month"). Lasky had founded the latter during the Berlin Blockade in 1948 as an anti-Communist but Leftist, socially progressive journal which became one of the leading Germanophone highbrow socio-political journals for decades, incorporating essays and articles from many Western European and North-American, as well as dissident East Bloc intellectual figureheads, such as George Orwell, Hannah Arendt, Franz Borkenau, Thomas Mann, Arthur Koestler, Raymond Aron, Ignazio Silone, Heinrich Böll, Hans Sahl, Max Frisch, T. S. Eliot, Saul Bellow, Milovan Djilas, Richard Löwenthal, Peter de Mendelssohn, Hilde Spiel, Hermann Kesten.

In the Anglosphere, Lasky was best known for his role as Editor-in-Chief of Encounter. He succeeded Irving Kristol, the original editor and founder, in 1958 and helped turn the young magazine into one of the most highly regarded periodicals in Europe. Lasky steered Encounter to represented the point of view of the anti-Communist, anti-Totalitarian Left.

Flash
12th May 2011, 23:46
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

Exceedinigly interesting read, thanks very much- manipulation going deep

thanks Lord Sidious for the invitation, I will keep reading the thread and if I find something will let you know, but my searh time is very limited because my work week is 60 hrs.

leavesoftrees
13th May 2011, 22:28
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG

I would take this article with a very large grain of salt

TWINCANS
14th May 2011, 05:41
Found this theory:

http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/george-orwell-believed-the-stark-totalitarian-society-he-described-in-1984-actually-would-arrive-by-the-year-2000-thanks-to-the-slow-sinister-influence-of-socialism/

Basically the Fabian Society which has 'a wolf is sheep's clothing' on its shield, began in 1884. Perhaps Orwell /Blair chose the title 1984 because he wanted to harken back to that date as the founding of a pernicious belief, one that would plod along until it achieved its socialist end. "...a mirror held up to the totalitarian face of the left-wing intelligentsia." We know this today as political correctness. The British Labour Party took many of the Fabian Society's tenets.

"Fabians believed they could be successful in taking over national governments incrementally even if it took 100 years.

"What gives pause is that the book clearly satirizes the consequences of Fabian socialism exactly 100 years after its birth in the salons of London."

"When asked about the world he had described in 1984, Orwell responded that he was not saying such a future would occur, but that a future something like it could happen because that was the direction in which the world was going.

So why would this Swiftian satire be unleashed against the gentle Fabian socialists? One reason is that they weren’t all that gentle. The redoubtable Webbs had traveled in 1932 to Stalin’s Soviet Union with Fabian playwright George Bernard Shaw to see socialism at work, and they were Potemkinized if not directly recruited by the NKVD, the Soviet secret police that preceded the KGB. The gushing Webbs claimed to have seen no evidence of famine, hardship or slave camps.

In 1933 they published an account of their trip titled Soviet Russia: A New Civilization. Two years later they put out a revised edition even more obsequious, to which they added an exclamation point, as in Soviet Russia: A New Civilization! According to the archives of the Soviet intelligence services, the book was entirely written by the NKVD. The aging Webbs now were working to create in England a replica of the Soviet Union, and Orwell was watching them."

"All of which suggests that Orwell’s 1984 was written as a forecast scenario for the year 2000, but titled 1984 to bring to mind the centenary of the Fabian Society. Orwell’s satirical approach assumes that the leaders of future governments would be Fabian successors of Beatrice and Sidney Webb, whom H.G. Wells with arcane foresight referred to as the global “New Machiavellians.”

Is that getting close, or is there another rabbit hole to go down here, LS?

TWINCANS
14th May 2011, 06:13
Eric Arthur Blairs father was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason?.
And his dad was also a not so distant relative of Tony Blair?[/QUOTE]

Tony Blairs real name is not Blair.
Keep going.[/QUOTE]



Tony Parsons, am I right?

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 09:44
Eric Arthur Blairs father was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason?.
And his dad was also a not so distant relative of Tony Blair?

Tony Blairs real name is not Blair.
Keep going.[/QUOTE]



Tony Parsons, am I right?[/QUOTE]

I am not sure of his real name, I never cared enough.
Dirtbag is as dirtbag does, you know the deal.

mondaze
14th May 2011, 11:05
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. " Blair was a member of the Burma Police and high ranking s.o.e. operative. Also fought on the catalan side in the spanish civil war, hence his disenfranchisement with the communist agenda. I don't know specifically what you are alluding to lord, but I can hazard a guess....

mondaze
14th May 2011, 11:10
http://vimeo.com/8321833

this might be of use...

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 11:11
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. " Blair was a member of the Burma Police and high ranking s.o.e. operative. Also fought on the catalan side in the spanish civil war, hence his disenfranchisement with the communist agenda. I don't know specifically what you are alluding to lord, but I can hazard a guess....

You are getting there, filling in some of the bits.
More to come yet though.

Lily de Cuir
14th May 2011, 11:26
Hello Sid,

Um Orwell's brother (or Blair, whatever) was privvy to the illumanti's plans?

M'Lord why do you play such drawn-out games?

If you have the answers, why not just spit your info out and give us the good stuff if you're in the know.

Life is too short to play games these days.

Yes, I know you will say info shouldn't be put on a plate 'chewed up and ready to be digested'. But I think most of us here are pretty savvy, already. :hail:

Love Lily
x

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 11:30
Hello Sid,

Um Orwell's brother (or Blair, whatever) was privvy to the illumanti's plans?

M'Lord why do you play such drawn-out games?

If you have the answers, why not just spit your info out and give us the good stuff if you're in the know.

Life is too short to play games these days.

Yes, I know you will say info shouldn't be put on a plate 'chewed up and ready to be digested'. But I think most of us here are pretty savvy, already. :hail:

Love Lily
x

It is the journey that shapes us, not the destination, for you would not be able to reach it without the journey.
You learn more by looking for yourselves and get knowledge AROUND the topic as well, rather than I just spit it at you.
Don't worry, your Uncle Sidious will assemble it all, once you have all the pieces required.

And mondaze, I will review your video later, I am having one of those days and don't have the patience for it right now.
Sorry.

Mr54
14th May 2011, 11:48
Orwell wrote an excellent essay about his experiences in the Burma Military Police entitled "to kill an Elephant" in which he describes the status quo through an experience he had in which he had to kill a rampaging Bull Elephant with his service revolver. Through this he experienced the full loathing of the local population and was taken up with an equal amount of hatred for them. The disgust that Orwell felt with himself for his handling of this event in which he became the embodiment of TPTB I believe was a very important event in his formation of anti establishment thinking.

Also I do believe that Orwell was involved with propaganda production for the "allies" in the second world war.........

Lily de Cuir
14th May 2011, 12:02
Hello Sid,

Um Orwell's brother (or Blair, whatever) was privvy to the illumanti's plans?

M'Lord why do you play such drawn-out games?

If you have the answers, why not just spit your info out and give us the good stuff if you're in the know.

Life is too short to play games these days.

Yes, I know you will say info shouldn't be put on a plate 'chewed up and ready to be digested'. But I think most of us here are pretty savvy, already. :hail:

Love Lily
x

It is the journey that shapes us, not the destination, for you would not be able to reach it without the journey.
You learn more by looking for yourselves and get knowledge AROUND the topic as well, rather than I just spit it at you.
Don't worry, your Uncle Sidious will assemble it all, once you have all the pieces required.

And mondaze, I will review your video later, I am having one of those days and don't have the patience for it right now.
Sorry.

Uncle Sid,

I think you may need to spend some time in the garden and turn your computer off.

I have no desire to chase people around with their promises of telling me what is correct for days on end, with cryptic offerings. Like most people on this forum I've been chasing the truth for a few years now. I am getting very frustrated with time-wasters of those who say they know the truth and lead people on for an age without getting to the point. I work very hard for a living and love having this space to communicate with like-minded people in rare times to myself.

Tell people what you want to say, say it and then tell them what you've told them. Simple. Wasting people's time is just a ego trip, in my humble opinion.

Your last sentence is very telling, you don't have the patience now or the time to attend to Mondaze's video. Well it's your choice to be on here stringing everyone along. You've been on here for the last week, non-stop....

Turn your computer off and dig your fingers in the soil Uncle Sid.

And I don't need you or anyone else to tell me when everything has been assembled, according to you, to make sense of anything and to be given answers. I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle and neither do you.

Love Lily
x

K626
14th May 2011, 12:06
Orwell on tea making.

First of all, one should use Indian or Ceylonese tea. China tea has virtues which are not to be despised nowadays — it is economical, and one can drink it without milk — but there is not much stimulation in it. One does not feel wiser, braver or more optimistic after drinking it. Anyone who has used that comforting phrase 'a nice cup of tea' invariably means Indian tea.

Secondly, tea should be made in small quantities — that is, in a teapot. Tea out of an urn is always tasteless, while army tea, made in a cauldron, tastes of grease and whitewash. The teapot should be made of china or earthenware. Silver or Britanniaware teapots produce inferior tea and enamel pots are worse; though curiously enough a pewter teapot (a rarity nowadays) is not so bad.

Thirdly, the pot should be warmed beforehand. This is better done by placing it on the hob than by the usual method of swilling it out with hot water.

Fourthly, the tea should be strong. For a pot holding a quart, if you are going to fill it nearly to the brim, six heaped teaspoons would be about right. In a time of rationing, this is not an idea that can be realized on every day of the week, but I maintain that one strong cup of tea is better than twenty weak ones. All true tea lovers not only like their tea strong, but like it a little stronger with each year that passes — a fact which is recognized in the extra ration issued to old-age pensioners.

Fifthly, the tea should be put straight into the pot. No strainers, muslin bags or other devices to imprison the tea. In some countries teapots are fitted with little dangling baskets under the spout to catch the stray leaves, which are supposed to be harmful. Actually one can swallow tea-leaves in considerable quantities without ill effect, and if the tea is not loose in the pot it never infuses properly.

Sixthly, one should take the teapot to the kettle and not the other way about. The water should be actually boiling at the moment of impact, which means that one should keep it on the flame while one pours. Some people add that one should only use water that has been freshly brought to the boil, but I have never noticed that it makes any difference.

Seventhly, after making the tea, one should stir it, or better, give the pot a good shake, afterwards allowing the leaves to settle.

Eighthly, one should drink out of a good breakfast cup — that is, the cylindrical type of cup, not the flat, shallow type. The breakfast cup holds more, and with the other kind one's tea is always half cold before one has well started on it.

Ninthly, one should pour the cream off the milk before using it for tea. Milk that is too creamy always gives tea a sickly taste.

Tenthly, one should pour tea into the cup first. This is one of the most controversial points of all; indeed in every family in Britain there are probably two schools of thought on the subject. The milk-first school can bring forward some fairly strong arguments, but I maintain that my own argument is unanswerable. This is that, by putting the tea in first and stirring as one pours, one can exactly regulate the amount of milk whereas one is liable to put in too much milk if one does it the other way round.

Lastly, tea — unless one is drinking it in the Russian style — should be drunk without sugar. I know very well that I am in a minority here. But still, how can you call yourself a true tealover if you destroy the flavour of your tea by putting sugar in it? It would be equally reasonable to put in pepper or salt. Tea is meant to be bitter, just as beer is meant to be bitter. If you sweeten it, you are no longer tasting the tea, you are merely tasting the sugar; you could make a very similar drink by dissolving sugar in plain hot water.


cheers

K

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 12:47
Hello Sid,

Um Orwell's brother (or Blair, whatever) was privvy to the illumanti's plans?

M'Lord why do you play such drawn-out games?

If you have the answers, why not just spit your info out and give us the good stuff if you're in the know.

Life is too short to play games these days.

Yes, I know you will say info shouldn't be put on a plate 'chewed up and ready to be digested'. But I think most of us here are pretty savvy, already. :hail:

Love Lily
x

It is the journey that shapes us, not the destination, for you would not be able to reach it without the journey.
You learn more by looking for yourselves and get knowledge AROUND the topic as well, rather than I just spit it at you.
Don't worry, your Uncle Sidious will assemble it all, once you have all the pieces required.

And mondaze, I will review your video later, I am having one of those days and don't have the patience for it right now.
Sorry.

Uncle Sid,

I think you may need to spend some time in the garden and turn your computer off.

I have no desire to chase people around with their promises of telling me what is correct for days on end, with cryptic offerings. Like most people on this forum I've been chasing the truth for a few years now. I am getting very frustrated with time-wasters of those who say they know the truth and lead people on for an age without getting to the point. I work very hard for a living and love having this space to communicate with like-minded people in rare times to myself.

Tell people what you want to say, say it and then tell them what you've told them. Simple. Wasting people's time is just a ego trip, in my humble opinion.

Your last sentence is very telling, you don't have the patience now or the time to attend to Mondaze's video. Well it's your choice to be on here stringing everyone along. You've been on here for the last week, non-stop....

Turn your computer off and dig your fingers in the soil Uncle Sid.

And I don't need you or anyone else to tell me when everything has been assembled, according to you, to make sense of anything and to be given answers. I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle and neither do you.

Love Lily
x

While what you say is not wrong, it is not my ego doing this, it is my urge to help.
And my comment was based on the fact that I am not feeling so good and sitting for more than 5 minutes at a time to concentrate is hard.
His video deserves some consideration, more than I can muster right now.
If that is a problem for you, then please accept my apologies.

mondaze
14th May 2011, 12:51
to be honest rob i only watched 20 mins... :o just thought it might help others see the background...

Mike Gorman
14th May 2011, 13:19
Are we trying to say Eric Blair got his ideas for 1984 from his brief association with Aldous Huxley
at Eton.?..This is a long bow to draw, 'Brave New World' and 1984 are very different visions of the world,
besides Orwell's own experiences as he describes:
“First I spent five years in an unsuitable profession (the Indian Imperial Police, in Burma), and then I underwent poverty and the sense of failure. This increased my natural hatred of authority and made me for the first time fully aware of the existence of the working classes, and the job in Burma had given me some understanding of the nature of imperialism: but these experiences were not enough to give me an accurate political orientation. Then came Hitler, the Spanish Civil War, etc. By the end of 1935 I had still failed to reach a firm decision.”
He goes on to say;

“The Spanish war and other events in 1936-37 turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

Are sufficient enough for him to develop his own ideas....

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 14:28
Are we trying to say Eric Blair got his ideas for 1984 from his brief association with Aldous Huxley
at Eton.?..This is a long bow to draw, 'Brave New World' and 1984 are very different visions of the world,
besides Orwell's own experiences as he describes:
“First I spent five years in an unsuitable profession (the Indian Imperial Police, in Burma), and then I underwent poverty and the sense of failure. This increased my natural hatred of authority and made me for the first time fully aware of the existence of the working classes, and the job in Burma had given me some understanding of the nature of imperialism: but these experiences were not enough to give me an accurate political orientation. Then came Hitler, the Spanish Civil War, etc. By the end of 1935 I had still failed to reach a firm decision.”
He goes on to say;

“The Spanish war and other events in 1936-37 turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”

Are sufficient enough for him to develop his own ideas....

The fact that Blair was in the fabians has escaped all of you so far.
Maybe you might think he KNEW what the plans were?

red_rose
14th May 2011, 14:42
I remember seeing a documentary that said his brother was either a member of parliament or some big wig but I can't remember who it was.....doh! His brother would confide in him about the plans for society.

I remember having a big discussion about it with my partner a few years back.

My memory is so crappy....

Gustav
14th May 2011, 15:14
ah that extremely open society that is the fabians.. interesting lecture on the fabians here. Although no really dark backgrounds it provides an insight in their working schemes.
http://mises.org/media/1180/media.aspx?action=author&ID=809

TWINCANS
14th May 2011, 15:15
Sorry, yes he was in the Fabians but did leave them, ie quit the organization. Thought that was already covered but obviously not clearly. And that would indicate that he knew, and disagreed with their aims, yes.

What I found interesting that I did not personally know was that Beatrice Potter (through her husband's seminal position in the Fabians) was the one that 'joined the dots' in the startegic thinking of the early organization to the labour movement.

Also didn't know how important Annie Besant was, so I'm very thankful to LS for his promptings that we do the research.

Gustav
14th May 2011, 15:22
Sorry, yes he was in the Fabians but did leave them, ie quit the organization. Thought that was already covered but obviously not clearly. And that would indicate that he knew, and disagreed with their aims, yes.

What I found interesting that I did not personally know was that Beatrice Potter (through her husband's seminal position in the Fabians) was the one that 'joined the dots' in the startegic thinking of the early organization to the labour movement.

Also didn't know how important Annie Besant was, so I'm very thankful to LS for his promptings that we do the research.

thanks for those names. Have no clue who Annie Besant was, but will look it up. Beatrice Potter, is she the woman that made all those lovely rabbit paintings and stories?

mountain_jim
14th May 2011, 15:34
I learned of Orwell and Huxley's involvement in The Fabian Society (and much more) from Icke's Human Race Get Off Your Knees.

Page 67: Chris Schacht (reportedly) - "You probably were not aware that us Fabians have taken over the CIA, KGB, MI5, ASIO, IMF, The World Bank, and many other organizations"

Icke: "Fabian Society.... has known from its creation about the long-term agenda for the global fascist / communist global dictatorship...... Their (Orwell, Huxley) books were not written from imagination, but from knowledge of what was coming."

T Smith
14th May 2011, 15:42
This is a very intriguing thread for me, Lord Nugget....

This exact topic is actually on my research list, and I just began thinking further on this topic a couple weeks ago. I began digging, based on my understanding of what I suspect Eric Blair's deal was (trying to validate or invalidate my suspicions). The way I understand it, in passing from a very knowledgeable source, is that Eric Blair was actually an insider of sorts who had the entire blueprint. Whether he was privy to this blueprint from his dealings with the Fabians or from his association with some other secret society even more clandestine and elite than the Fabians -- not sure. In any event, his first attempt at disemminating the basic info portrayed fictionally in 1984 was a more academic non-fiction account -- a warning of sorts, or a historical projection -- cited and referenced. The work he initially produced was way too extreme and controversial, so his publisher (or likely some other unknown power) suggested he--or profoundly influenced him in some unknown way --to refashion the information in a fictional account. This is the snippet I heard from a trusted source, in the span of a thirty second conversation -- but it was a couple years ago and I never followed up to validate whether this information was accurate or not. If true, it's a pretty fascinating biography and I would like to know the details.

I will admit at the outset that I have found nothing to validate this -- not that I've dug too deep -- and I'm not sure if this has anything to do with our little journey here. I just thought I would throw it out there. If anyone has any further evidence of this, by all means, please share.

Peace

MariaDine
14th May 2011, 15:58
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYrkLwLTrIg

Cuban-born journalist and author Alex Abella was allowed exclusive access inside the RAND Corporation to view their archives. What he discovered was a plot driven by mad scientists, behaviorists, and generals who were intent on starting world war three and fleecing the American people in the process.

Once he was a skeptic on the subject of conspiracy theories and the new world order, but after his work with the RAND Corporation he is now convinced that this top secret think tank has been pulling the strings of American government for at least 60 years.

----

...and he only touched the tip of the iceberg.

Namasté


Ps -http://www.abellaweb.com/pdf/writings-defense.pdf

TWINCANS
14th May 2011, 15:59
re "thanks for those names. Have no clue who Annie Besant was, but will look it up. Beatrice Potter, is she the woman that made all those lovely rabbit paintings and stories?"

Annie Besant had a varied life as an activist for many causes and organizations, including apparently the Fabian Society. She may be worthy of a thread on her own, I guess. Among others, she met Madame Blavatsky in 1890 and became President of the Theosophical Society in 1908.

Yes, Beatrice Potter of the Peter Rabbit fame.

Gustav
14th May 2011, 16:24
re "thanks for those names. Have no clue who Annie Besant was, but will look it up. Beatrice Potter, is she the woman that made all those lovely rabbit paintings and stories?"

Annie Besant had a varied life as an activist for many causes and organizations, including apparently the Fabian Society. She may be worthy of a thread on her own, I guess. Among others, she met Madame Blavatsky in 1890 and became President of the Theosophical Society in 1908.

Yes, Beatrice Potter of the Peter Rabbit fame.

Thanks, as I was watching the vimeo video also provided in this thread the name of Annie Besant was mentioned also. As most of the times, my lazyness took over instead of just typing it into scroogle first ;). But thanks for the explanation!

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 16:46
This is a very intriguing thread for me, Lord Nugget....

This exact topic is actually on my research list, and I just began thinking further on this topic a couple weeks ago. I began digging, based on my understanding of what I suspect Eric Blair's deal was (trying to validate or invalidate my suspicions). The way I understand it, in passing from a very knowledgeable source, is that Eric Blair was actually an insider of sorts who had the entire blueprint. Whether he was privy to this blueprint from his dealings with the Fabians or from his association with some other secret society even more clandestine and elite than the Fabians -- not sure. In any event, his first attempt at disemminating the basic info portrayed fictionally in 1984 was a more academic non-fiction account -- a warning of sorts, or a historical projection -- cited and referenced. The work he initially produced was way too extreme and controversial, so his publisher (or likely some other unknown power) suggested he--or profoundly influenced him in some unknown way --to refashion the information in a fictional account. This is the snippet I heard from a trusted source, in the span of a thirty second conversation -- but it was a couple years ago and I never followed up to validate whether this information was accurate or not. If true, it's a pretty fascinating biography and I would like to know the details.

I will admit at the outset that I have found nothing to validate this -- not that I've dug too deep -- and I'm not sure if this has anything to do with our little journey here. I just thought I would throw it out there. If anyone has any further evidence of this, by all means, please share.

Peace

Persue this line.

MariaDine
14th May 2011, 16:52
What is it I'm suppose to be looking for ? Orwell's connection to people involved in an internacional net ???

Jendayi
14th May 2011, 17:12
wow m'Lord...
i've never seen someone juggle so many nuggets at a time!
practice makes perfect ey?
Bless you for what you are doing!
Namaste

MariaDine
14th May 2011, 17:15
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

TWINCANS
14th May 2011, 17:20
A bit of a rant, which might seem elitist but is a bit socratic.

Why is it that every time humanity has a great surge of consciousness-raising ideas, this is followed almost immediately by horrific killing, chaos and bloodshed? I can almost see the slobbering reptiles feasting on it.

This came as we've been researching the Fabians. Obviously scum but why did so many embrace their ideas at the time, including Emily Pankhurst, Amelia Earhart, Besant, Potter etc. Were they all nuts? Like Rudolf Steiner - look where his amazing work is now? In the hands of a Fabian'esque cult. Anyone who has done any research into the late 1800's/turn of the century knows that there were actually kind-hearted, giving people of the mid-upper class out there, as now, who were truly trying to improve society. What came next? A horrific and shocking war of bloody trench fighting that has undoubtedly left the land still in shock.

Just as in the mid-late 1700's when the ideal of liberte, fraternite etc. was being actually embraced by a wide selection of Europe's ruling elite until bloodshed, carnage, chaos and Napoleon wrecked any chance.

And further back to the 14th century when there was a flowering of society - destroyed by a plague (new info says ebola) that wiped out a third of Europe and the middle east.

Makes you wonder if that's why the Atlanteans fell prey to the dark priesthood - maybe they were trying to shift upwards, and whammo! As for the about-face in consciousness that happened at the turn of the century, I read somewhere that Aleister Crowley has much to answer for that.

Anyways, does anyone else feel there's a pattern? What gives?

Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 17:43
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.

MariaDine
14th May 2011, 18:29
We may have something here!!!

I quote Orwell----

'Trust a snake before a Jew and a Jew before a Greek, but don't trust an Armenian.'
-----
Writing in the spring of 1945 a long essay titled "Antisemitism in Britain", for the Contemporary Jewish Record, Orwell stated that anti-Semitism was on the increase in Britain, and that it was "irrational and will not yield to arguments."

He argued that it would be useful to discover why anti-Semites could "swallow such absurdities on one particular subject while remaining sane on others." He wrote: "For quite six years the English admirers of Hitler contrived not to learn of the existence of Dachau and Buchenwald. .Many English people have heard almost nothing about the extermination of German and Polish Jews during the present war. Their own anti-Semitism has caused this vast crime to bounce off their consciousness."

In Nineteen Eighty-Four, written shortly after the war, Orwell portrayed the Party as enlisting anti-Semitic passions against their enemy, Goldstein. Nevertheless, he opposed the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine, taking an anti-colonialist stance against Zionism.

Before World War II, however, his attitudes appeared to be somewhat at odds with his later positions. In chapter 13 of Down and Out in Paris and London, first published in 1933, he recalled of a doorkeeper:

He called himself a Greek, but in reality he was an Armenian. After knowing him I saw the force of the proverb 'Trust a snake before a Jew and a Jew before a Greek, but don't trust an Armenian.'

Orwell publicly defended P.G. Wodehouse against charges of being a Nazi sympathiser, a defence based on Wodehouse's lack of interest in and ignorance of politics.

The British intelligence group Special Branch maintained a file on Orwell for more than 20 years of his life. The dossier, published by The National Archives, mentions that according to one investigator, Orwell had "advanced Communist views and several of his Indian friends say that they have often seen him at Communist meetings". MI5, the intelligence department of the Home Office, noted: "It is evident from his recent writings—'The Lion and the Unicorn'—and his contribution to Gollancz's symposium The Betrayal of the Left that he does not hold with the Communist Party nor they with him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79d/chapter13.html

Ivanhoe
14th May 2011, 18:41
Very interesting read LS.
The plot thickens.....

Carmody
14th May 2011, 18:46
Yesindeed. Starting to see a picture here. Connecting the dots, sort of. This article, if true, is an eyeopener:

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=AquarianConspiracy&Entity=OrwellG



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYrkLwLTrIg

Cuban-born journalist and author Alex Abella was allowed exclusive access inside the RAND Corporation to view their archives. What he discovered was a plot driven by mad scientists, behaviorists, and generals who were intent on starting world war three and fleecing the American people in the process.

Once he was a skeptic on the subject of conspiracy theories and the new world order, but after his work with the RAND Corporation he is now convinced that this top secret think tank has been pulling the strings of American government for at least 60 years.

----

...and he only touched the tip of the iceberg.

Namasté


Ps -http://www.abellaweb.com/pdf/writings-defense.pdf

T. Townsend Brown, the Philadelphia experiment and..... The Rand Corporation.

IIRC, I have read words about Eric Blair being involved in 'signals intelligence' near the end of WWII. But I could be wrong.

many a sci-fi author has done similar things. They put/release what they understand into a fictional caste, in order to find a way to get the information out into the collective consciousness.

Are we talking about the hijacking of the (or it's literal reason for creation) 'German school of thought', The rote teaching methodology, Freemason control of academia (easy to do, due to the left brained ignorance of complexities and dualities), the origins of the Illuminati, Adam Weishaupt, Jesuits, Rothschild, etc?

MariaDine
14th May 2011, 23:36
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.

Do you really want me to go down that road, here in your thread ???....

Step 1 - Understanding the Theory - What is the grail ? and Whom does it serve ? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3YNMPMNzU

Modernity may be described as the «age of ideology».
Sociologically the term most generally refers to the social conditions, processes, and discourses consequent to the Age of Enlightenment. The failure of racionalism - the Wars. the Holocaust. the poor countries ,etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD9B_ZXD_E&feature=related

-- The Self Under Siege
A very good lecture, clear and concise about Habermas (2 fase of the Frankfurt School)
Orwell is mencioned in the last video. The author was very much influenced by this school of thought
The F. School split in two during the 2 War. Some of the members went to USA and developed their theories there. Habermas belongs to the second momentum of this school.

MariaDine
15th May 2011, 02:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_vgmPz8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawGakdNoT0

This is an excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate .

Lately, Chomsky has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and «bought priesthood« of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties intertwined through common interests.
In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Chomsky along with his coauthor Edward S. Herman has written that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
Chomsky has condemned the 2010 supreme court ruling revoking the limits on campaign finance, calling it "corporate takeover of democracy."
-------------------------------------------------------------

'Disciplinary Society

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk9ulS76PW8&feature=related

In 1983, Foucault's responded to questions about arguably his most influential work, "Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison" (1977)... specifically, the focus was the orgin of the prison system as it relates to the emergence of what he termed - 'disciplinary society.'

The 18th century prisons, he contends, were based upon 17th century disciplinary institutions - mainly, schools and the army.

Their social arrangement became the basis for diffused societal regimentation - Bentham's panopticon, was the theoretical model - a centralized observation device in which the disciplinarian observes the disciplinee - but not vice-versa ...

The Big Brother...LOL

Carmody
15th May 2011, 02:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_vgmPz8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawGakdNoT0

This is an excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate .

Lately, Chomsky has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and «bought priesthood« of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties intertwined through common interests.
In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Chomsky along with his coauthor Edward S. Herman has written that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
Chomsky has condemned the 2010 supreme court ruling revoking the limits on campaign finance, calling it "corporate takeover of democracy."

the university of oregon, IIRC, did a study on media ownership consolidation in the USA.

85% of the MSM was in the hands of, IIRC, approx 250 people..who were on each others board of directors (for said media companies).

When peering closer, one found it was really down to about 7 people.

6 of those people have the same ethnic/religious background.

MariaDine
15th May 2011, 02:21
Yes, I understand what you are saying..................To be or not to be ...free of having your voice heard !

http://www.suite101.com/content/media-consolidation-ownership-a52916

-----------------------
On 21 October 1949, Huxley wrote to George Orwell, author of Nineteen Eighty-Four, congratulating Orwell on "how fine and how profoundly important the book is". In his letter to Orwell, he predicted:


Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience.

mosquito
15th May 2011, 02:57
Hi, Another interesting thread. As Maria rightly points out, Huxley communucated with Orwell and stated that he thought the "Brave new world" scenario was more likely than that laid out in "1984". In 1959, he wrote an essay entitled "Brave new world revisited", which I found to be an eye-opening read. Among other things, he says :

"It is rather alarming to find that after only twenty-seven years quite a number of those forecasts have already come true, and come true with vengeance ...... Some of them were foreseen, and I think some of them I didn't have the imagination to foresee, but I think there is a whole armory at the disposal of potential dictators at the moment".

One wonders what he'd say today .....

There is little need to introduce all-out fascism when, thanks in no small part to the television (narco-hypnosis), the masses are quite happy to live in a state of blind, un questioning servitude and apathy. Having said that, there are signs that things are starting to get viscious, and elements of the "1984" society are plain to see.

Oh, and by the way, it's BEATRIX Potter.

mondaze
15th May 2011, 06:58
you mention foucault. here is his most seminal discourse in a nutshell...(culled from wikipeadia)

Examples in Modern SocietyA central idea to Foucault’s Panopticism is the systematic ordering and controlling of human populations through subtle and often unseen forces. This is apparent in many parts of the modernized world. Modern advances in technology and surveillance techniques have made Foucault’s theories all the more pertinent to any scrutiny of the relationship between the state and its population.

Increased surveillance cameras have the effect of reminding us however, of the little use of "panoptic" mechanisms on the part of liberal democracies. It could also be argued that increased surveillance technologies are unnecessary in the face of disciplinary mechanisms as illustrated by Foucault's Panopticism. Foucault argues that Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon provides us with a model in which a self-disciplined society has been able to develop. These apparatuses of behavior control are essential if we are to govern ourselves, without the constant surveillance and intervention by an agency in every aspect of our lives. The Canadian historian Robert Gellately argued that because of the widespread willingness of Germans to inform on each other to the Gestapo that Germany between 1933-45 was a prime example of Panopticism[2].

In one of the “Eyes of New York” ads introduced by MTA, close up photographs of several different sets of eyes are juxtaposed while underneath reads in bold print, “There are 16 million eyes in the city. We’re counting on all of them.” This a continuation of the “If You See Something, Say Something” concept first launched in March 1993. MTA Director of Security William A. Morange says, “It is impossible for the police departments to be everywhere and see everything. Our passengers extend our reach and-by sharing their information-make the system safer."[3]

If discursive mechanisms can control and modify the body of discussion within a certain space (to the benefit of a certain class/the government/security), then there no longer remains the point of having an active agent in order to keep the same power using the threat of violence

¤=[Post Update]=¤

sounds a lot like Britain today!

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 08:09
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.

Do you really want me to go down that road, here in your thread ???....

Step 1 - Understanding the Theory - What is the grail ? and Whom does it serve ? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3YNMPMNzU

Modernity may be described as the «age of ideology».
Sociologically the term most generally refers to the social conditions, processes, and discourses consequent to the Age of Enlightenment. The failure of racionalism - the Wars. the Holocaust. the poor countries ,etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD9B_ZXD_E&feature=related

-- The Self Under Siege
A very good lecture, clear and concise about Habermas (2 fase of the Frankfurt School)
Orwell is mencioned in the last video. The author was very much influenced by this school of thought
The F. School split in two during the 2 War. Some of the members went to USA and developed their theories there. Habermas belongs to the second momentum of this school.

I meant you should start a thread about the frankfurt school, it is worthy of discussion and to bring to peoples attention the origins of political correctness and racism as concepts.

Flash
15th May 2011, 08:17
looking for links

Annie Besant was part of the Fabian Society as Orwell was later. Annie Besan was also from the theosophy school and mentor of Krishnamurti, friend of Huxley, who went to Eton like Orwell (checked for Krihnamurti, he did not).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Wbesant.htm


Like Catherine Booth of the Salvation Army, Annie was concerned about the health of young women workers at the Bryant & May match factory. On 23rd June, 1888, Annie published an article White Slavery in London where she drew attention to the dangers of phosphorus fumes and complained about the low wages paid to the women who worked at Bryant & May.

Three women who provided information for Annie's article were sacked. Annie responded by helping the women at Bryant & May to form a Matchgirls Union. After a three week strike, the company was forced to make significant concessions including the re-employment the three victimized women.

Besant also join the socialist group, the Fabian Society, and in 1889 contributed to the influencial book, Fabian Essays. As well as Besant, the book included articles by George Bernard Shaw, Sydney Webb, Sydney Olivier, Graham Wallas, William Clarke and Hubert Bland. Edited by Shaw, the book sold 27,000 copies in two years.

In 1889 Annie Besant was elected to the London School Board. After heading the poll with a fifteen thousand majority over the next candidate, Besant argued that she had been given a mandate for large-scale reform of local schools. Some of her many achievements included a programme of free meals for undernourished children and free medical examinations for all those in elementary schools.

In the 1890s Annie Besant became a supporter of Theosophy, a religious movement founded by Helena Blavatsky in 1875. Theosophy was based on Hindu ideas of karma and reincarnation with nirvana as the eventual aim. Besant went to live in India but she remained interested in the subject of women's rights. She continued to write letters to British newspapers arguing the case for women's suffrage and in 1911 was one of the main speakers at an important NUWSS rally in London.

While in India, Annie joined the struggle for Indian Home Rule, and during the First World War was interned by the British authorities.

Annie Besant died in India on 20th September 1933.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVe3iaf8RYA




En 1938, Huxley se lie d’amitié avec J. Krishnamurti, dont il admirait les enseignements. Il devient en même temps un vedantiste dans le cercle de Swami Prabhavananda, et il initie Christopher Isherwood à ce même cercle. Huxley publiera en 1948 une anthologie des valeurs communes à certaines religions : La Philosophie éternelle, dans laquelle il discute des doctrines des grands courants mystiques.

Orwell a snitch against other authors pro communists, had developed quite a distaste for Staline and communism, as well as fascism.

He developed in 1984 the novalangue, which is a language that allows for fascism to take hold and remain, having different grammar rules that make thinking about impossible. Some authors (below) compare it to the way American described the wars in Irak, where language modifications makes it impossible to oppose the actual propaganda. He also compares it to the aglutinating languages such as turkish that have some of the characteristics of the novalangue in poetry.

The way the novalangue is described in French texts makes me think of the way American use language as well as the way texting is used nowaday. Very revealing.

I was looking for a link between theosophy, Huxley and Orwell, but I failed to find it.




Le but de la novlangue", écrit George Orwell dans son roman 1984
▪ "Le but de la novlangue", écrit George Orwell dans son roman 1984, "était non seulement de fournir un mode d'expression aux idées générales et aux habitudes mentales des dévots de l'Angsoc [le nom qu'a donné Orwell au régime en place dans 1984, NDLR.], mais de rendre impossible tout autre mode de pensée" ( Mecanopolis » La guerre civile à l’horizon de l’Europe, A regarder absolument !!! Maurice Papon, itinéraire d'un homme d'ordre : jeudi 14 avril 2011 à 22h50 sur France 2).

Le chroniqueur William Pfaff,, a utilisé la citation d'Orwell pour décrire comment le gouvernement des Etats-Unis en est venu à soutenir inextricablement la base de Guantanamo, qu'il compare aux goulags de la Russie stalinienne -- à peine pire dans le sens où les condamnations au goulag, au moins, avaient une date de fin.

Alors que fermer la base semble être devenu politiquement impossible, "on pourrait encore dire certaines choses utiles sur cette situation", écrit Pfaff avec un espoir qui s'amenuise. C'est "de toute évidence un phénomène à caractère totalitaire, imitant, en toute connaissance de cause, la destruction du cadre judiciaire dans le système nazi par des moyens d'emprisonnement arbitraires dans des camps de concentration et par des méthodes généralisées dans la pratique de la Gestapo et des SS ; et dans la Russie stalinienne par sa police secrète et ses camps de travaux forcés".

http://citoyenactif.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2011/04/30/le-but-de-la-novlangue-ecrit-george-orwell-dans-son-roman-19.html


Constatant que « la première victime de la guerre, c’est la grammaire », Terry Jones se met en devoir de traquer les symptômes de cette « guerre des mots » secrètement déclarée à l’opinion publique par les spin doctors de la Maison Blanche et de Downing Street.

« Mon dictionnaire, écrit-il lors du déclenchement de l’offensive contre l’Irak, définit une “guerre” comme un “conflit ouvert, armé, entre deux parties, nations ou États”. Dès lors, larguer des bombes, protégé par l’altitude, sur une population déjà en difficulté, aux infrastructures ruinées par des années de sanctions et vivant sous la coupe d’un régime oppressif, ce n’est pas une “guerre”. C’est du tir aux pigeons. »

Voilà qui n’est pas sans rappeler Orwell qui écrivait déjà dans La politique et la langue anglaise : « Des villages sans défense subissent des bombardements aériens, leurs habitants sont chassés dans les campagnes, leur bétail est mitraillé, leurs huttes sont détruites par des bombes incendiaires : cela s’appelle la pacification. Des milliers de paysans sont expulsés de leur ferme et jetés sur les routes sans autre viatique que ce qu’ils peuvent emporter : cela s’appelle un transfert de population ou une rectification de frontière. Des gens sont emprisonnés sans jugement pendant des années, ou abattus d’une balle dans la nuque, ou envoyés dans les camps [...] : cela s’appelle l’élimination des éléments suspects. Cette phraséologie est nécessaire si l’on veut nommer les choses sans évoquer les images mentales correspondantes ».

http://citron-vert.info/spip.php?article558

Flash
15th May 2011, 08:30
Althusser's Concept of Ideology, where there is a social subject that cannot be free could be related to kirshnamurti teaching about one being programmed and having to see its own programm in order to free onself from it. I think however that I am stretching it. However, Althusser's Concept of Ideology and novalangue and Orwell is obvious.

mondaze
15th May 2011, 08:30
looking for links

Annie Besant was part of the Fabian Society as Orwell was later. Annie Besan was also from the theosophy school and mentor of Krishnamurti, friend of Huxley, who went to Eton like Orwell (checked for Krihnamurti, he did not).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Wbesant.htm


Like Catherine Booth of the Salvation Army, Annie was concerned about the health of young women workers at the Bryant & May match factory. On 23rd June, 1888, Annie published an article White Slavery in London where she drew attention to the dangers of phosphorus fumes and complained about the low wages paid to the women who worked at Bryant & May.

Three women who provided information for Annie's article were sacked. Annie responded by helping the women at Bryant & May to form a Matchgirls Union. After a three week strike, the company was forced to make significant concessions including the re-employment the three victimized women.

Besant also join the socialist group, the Fabian Society, and in 1889 contributed to the influencial book, Fabian Essays. As well as Besant, the book included articles by George Bernard Shaw, Sydney Webb, Sydney Olivier, Graham Wallas, William Clarke and Hubert Bland. Edited by Shaw, the book sold 27,000 copies in two years.

In 1889 Annie Besant was elected to the London School Board. After heading the poll with a fifteen thousand majority over the next candidate, Besant argued that she had been given a mandate for large-scale reform of local schools. Some of her many achievements included a programme of free meals for undernourished children and free medical examinations for all those in elementary schools.

In the 1890s Annie Besant became a supporter of Theosophy, a religious movement founded by Helena Blavatsky in 1875. Theosophy was based on Hindu ideas of karma and reincarnation with nirvana as the eventual aim. Besant went to live in India but she remained interested in the subject of women's rights. She continued to write letters to British newspapers arguing the case for women's suffrage and in 1911 was one of the main speakers at an important NUWSS rally in London.

While in India, Annie joined the struggle for Indian Home Rule, and during the First World War was interned by the British authorities.

Annie Besant died in India on 20th September 1933.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVe3iaf8RYA




En 1938, Huxley se lie d’amitié avec J. Krishnamurti, dont il admirait les enseignements. Il devient en même temps un vedantiste dans le cercle de Swami Prabhavananda, et il initie Christopher Isherwood à ce même cercle. Huxley publiera en 1948 une anthologie des valeurs communes à certaines religions : La Philosophie éternelle, dans laquelle il discute des doctrines des grands courants mystiques.

Orwell a snitch against other authors pro communists, had developed quite a distaste for Staline and communism, as well as fascism.

He developed in 1984 the novalangue, which is a language that allows for fascism to take hold and remain, having different grammar rules that make thinking about impossible. Some authors (below) compare it to the way American described the wars in Irak, where language modifications makes it impossible to oppose the actual propaganda. He also compares it to the aglutinating languages such as turkish that have some of the characteristics of the novalangue in poetry.

The way the novalangue is described in French texts makes me think of the way American use language as well as the way texting is used nowaday. Very revealing.

I was looking for a link between theosophy, Huxley and Orwell, but I failed to find it.




Le but de la novlangue", écrit George Orwell dans son roman 1984
▪ "Le but de la novlangue", écrit George Orwell dans son roman 1984, "était non seulement de fournir un mode d'expression aux idées générales et aux habitudes mentales des dévots de l'Angsoc [le nom qu'a donné Orwell au régime en place dans 1984, NDLR.], mais de rendre impossible tout autre mode de pensée" ( Mecanopolis » La guerre civile à l’horizon de l’Europe, A regarder absolument !!! Maurice Papon, itinéraire d'un homme d'ordre : jeudi 14 avril 2011 à 22h50 sur France 2).

Le chroniqueur William Pfaff,, a utilisé la citation d'Orwell pour décrire comment le gouvernement des Etats-Unis en est venu à soutenir inextricablement la base de Guantanamo, qu'il compare aux goulags de la Russie stalinienne -- à peine pire dans le sens où les condamnations au goulag, au moins, avaient une date de fin.

Alors que fermer la base semble être devenu politiquement impossible, "on pourrait encore dire certaines choses utiles sur cette situation", écrit Pfaff avec un espoir qui s'amenuise. C'est "de toute évidence un phénomène à caractère totalitaire, imitant, en toute connaissance de cause, la destruction du cadre judiciaire dans le système nazi par des moyens d'emprisonnement arbitraires dans des camps de concentration et par des méthodes généralisées dans la pratique de la Gestapo et des SS ; et dans la Russie stalinienne par sa police secrète et ses camps de travaux forcés".

http://citoyenactif.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2011/04/30/le-but-de-la-novlangue-ecrit-george-orwell-dans-son-roman-19.html


Constatant que « la première victime de la guerre, c’est la grammaire », Terry Jones se met en devoir de traquer les symptômes de cette « guerre des mots » secrètement déclarée à l’opinion publique par les spin doctors de la Maison Blanche et de Downing Street.

« Mon dictionnaire, écrit-il lors du déclenchement de l’offensive contre l’Irak, définit une “guerre” comme un “conflit ouvert, armé, entre deux parties, nations ou États”. Dès lors, larguer des bombes, protégé par l’altitude, sur une population déjà en difficulté, aux infrastructures ruinées par des années de sanctions et vivant sous la coupe d’un régime oppressif, ce n’est pas une “guerre”. C’est du tir aux pigeons. »

Voilà qui n’est pas sans rappeler Orwell qui écrivait déjà dans La politique et la langue anglaise : « Des villages sans défense subissent des bombardements aériens, leurs habitants sont chassés dans les campagnes, leur bétail est mitraillé, leurs huttes sont détruites par des bombes incendiaires : cela s’appelle la pacification. Des milliers de paysans sont expulsés de leur ferme et jetés sur les routes sans autre viatique que ce qu’ils peuvent emporter : cela s’appelle un transfert de population ou une rectification de frontière. Des gens sont emprisonnés sans jugement pendant des années, ou abattus d’une balle dans la nuque, ou envoyés dans les camps [...] : cela s’appelle l’élimination des éléments suspects. Cette phraséologie est nécessaire si l’on veut nommer les choses sans évoquer les images mentales correspondantes ».

http://citron-vert.info/spip.php?article558

sorry haven't got the hang of editing quotes. however this is a point i have made on several threads regarding language. More and more of our media use language which is metanymical rather than using exact words and inferances. Thus you cannot break it down accurately and attack it. This makes both discourse and dissent almost impossible.

Flash
15th May 2011, 08:41
sorry haven't got the hang of editing quotes. however this is a point i have made on several threads regarding language. More and more of our media use language which is metanymical rather than using exact words and inferances. Thus you cannot break it down accurately and attack it. This makes both discourse and dissent almost impossible


yes and Chomsky, the linguist and leftist, knows quite a lot about this, here a co forum post


Originally Posted by MariaDine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawGakdNoT0

This is an excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate .

Lately, Chomsky has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and «bought priesthood« of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties intertwined through common interests.
In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Chomsky along with his coauthor Edward S. Herman has written that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
Chomsky has condemned the 2010 supreme court ruling revoking the limits on campaign finance, calling it "corporate takeover of democracy."


Taking into account that almost all media are now owned by 7 individuals in US,(see Carmody's post) it makes it extremely easy to reduce the grammar to its minimum and only to its emotional components. Activating the masses is therefore very easy (see Bernays).

The term priesthood comes to Chomsky, theosophy is linked to the Fabian society somehow, and Orwell is writing against fascism and endoctrination, something somewhere is linked that is religious in purpose. My intuition.

MariaDine
15th May 2011, 12:13
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.

Do you really want me to go down that road, here in your thread ???....

Step 1 - Understanding the Theory - What is the grail ? and Whom does it serve ? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3YNMPMNzU

Modernity may be described as the «age of ideology».
Sociologically the term most generally refers to the social conditions, processes, and discourses consequent to the Age of Enlightenment. The failure of racionalism - the Wars. the Holocaust. the poor countries ,etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD9B_ZXD_E&feature=related

-- The Self Under Siege
A very good lecture, clear and concise about Habermas (2 fase of the Frankfurt School)
Orwell is mencioned in the last video. The author was very much influenced by this school of thought
The F. School split in two during the 2 War. Some of the members went to USA and developed their theories there. Habermas belongs to the second momentum of this school.

I meant you should start a thread about the frankfurt school, it is worthy of discussion and to bring to peoples attention the origins of political correctness and racism as concepts.


One can only tslk about racism after understanding the what an Ideology is and how it is a tool (instrumental) for changing the struture of society.

Racism involves the belief in racial differences, which acts as a justification for non-equal treatment (which some regard as "discrimination") of members of that race.

The term is commonly used negatively and is usually associated with race-based prejudice, violence, dislike, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have varying and contested definitions. Racialism is a related term, sometimes intended to avoid these negative meanings.

Racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, in particular to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

Several definitions are given -

That Racism is the belief

-that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" and the expression of such prejudice.

- that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and alternatively that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.

- that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."

As an ideology, racism existed during the 19th century as "scientific racism", which attempted to provide a racial classification of humanity. Although such racist ideologies have been widely discredited after World War II and the Holocaust, racism and racial discrimination have remained widespread around the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even though i am not going to do the story of (the ideology) racism, I have to point out thatt were the Spaniards who gave the world the notion that an aristocrat's blood is not red, but blue.

The Spanish nobility started taking shape around the ninth century in classic military fashion, occupying land as warriors on horseback.

They were to continue the process for more than five hundred years, clawing back sections of the peninsula from its Moorish occupiers, and a nobleman demonstrated his pedigree by holding up his sword arm to display the filigree of blue-blooded veins beneath his pale skin--proof that his birth had not been contaminated by the dark-skinned enemy.

They came up with «Limpieza de sangre» which means "cleanliness of blood" and this played an important role in modern Iberian history.
It referred to those who were considered pure "Old Christians", without Jewish or Muslim ancestors.

And this was the «OFICIAL» Historical genesis of Blue Blood.

Flash
15th May 2011, 12:26
[QUOTE=Lord Sidious;218765][QUOTE=MariaDine;218740]Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.


They came up with «Limpieza de sangre» which means "cleanliness of blood" and this played an important role in modern Iberian history.
It referred to those who were considered pure "Old Christians", without Jewish or Muslim ancestors.And this was the «OFICIAL» Historical genesis of Blue Blood.

I just understood where that feeling or religion was from: it was not religion but racism tied to religion. I must have been blind, you had spelled it just before my post.

It would be neat to explore the implication of the loss of adequate language to communicate in the power game of PTB.

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 12:27
Tss...spending the time reviewing the split of the Frankfurt School takes me back to my University years. Still, Ideology is a «Never Ending Story»....:)

That would be worth a thread, that school.
Hint, hint Maria.

Do you really want me to go down that road, here in your thread ???....

Step 1 - Understanding the Theory - What is the grail ? and Whom does it serve ? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz3YNMPMNzU

Modernity may be described as the «age of ideology».
Sociologically the term most generally refers to the social conditions, processes, and discourses consequent to the Age of Enlightenment. The failure of racionalism - the Wars. the Holocaust. the poor countries ,etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opD9B_ZXD_E&feature=related

-- The Self Under Siege
A very good lecture, clear and concise about Habermas (2 fase of the Frankfurt School)
Orwell is mencioned in the last video. The author was very much influenced by this school of thought
The F. School split in two during the 2 War. Some of the members went to USA and developed their theories there. Habermas belongs to the second momentum of this school.

I meant you should start a thread about the frankfurt school, it is worthy of discussion and to bring to peoples attention the origins of political correctness and racism as concepts.


One can only tslk about racism after understanding the what an Ideology is and how it is a tool (instrumental) for changing the struture of society.

Racism involves the belief in racial differences, which acts as a justification for non-equal treatment (which some regard as "discrimination") of members of that race.

The term is commonly used negatively and is usually associated with race-based prejudice, violence, dislike, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have varying and contested definitions. Racialism is a related term, sometimes intended to avoid these negative meanings.

Racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, in particular to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

Several definitions are given -

That Racism is the belief

-that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" and the expression of such prejudice.

- that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and alternatively that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.

- that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."

As an ideology, racism existed during the 19th century as "scientific racism", which attempted to provide a racial classification of humanity. Although such racist ideologies have been widely discredited after World War II and the Holocaust, racism and racial discrimination have remained widespread around the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even though i am not going to do the story of (the ideology) racism, I have to point out thatt were the Spaniards who gave the world the notion that an aristocrat's blood is not red, but blue.

The Spanish nobility started taking shape around the ninth century in classic military fashion, occupying land as warriors on horseback.

They were to continue the process for more than five hundred years, clawing back sections of the peninsula from its Moorish occupiers, and a nobleman demonstrated his pedigree by holding up his sword arm to display the filigree of blue-blooded veins beneath his pale skin--proof that his birth had not been contaminated by the dark-skinned enemy.

They came up with «Limpieza de sangre» which means "cleanliness of blood" and this played an important role in modern Iberian history.
It referred to those who were considered pure "Old Christians", without Jewish or Muslim ancestors.

And this was the «OFICIAL» Historical genesis of Blue Blood.

That isn't what racism meant when the term was coined.
That is why I said we should have a thread for the frankfurt school, so we could discuss it and its ideologies.
Would it be ok with you to have these bits seperated into a stand alone thread Maria?
It is worth its own thread, most don't know of the frankfurt school.

dan i el
15th May 2011, 12:46
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.


edit) I have an incomplete series of volumes of his collected letters and his anxiety communicated to confidants at this time is palpable.

Metaphor
15th May 2011, 12:48
Good idea, Sid Vicious... erh... sorry... Lord Sidious. The Frankfurtschool keeps coming up all the time. Lets dig.

dan i el
15th May 2011, 12:50
Good idea, Sid Vicious... erh... sorry... Lord Sidious. The Frankfurtschool keeps coming up all the time. Lets dig.

Might as well go the whole hog and add the Sorbonne too

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 12:51
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

dan i el
15th May 2011, 12:57
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

The trad version is that he became nonplussed in his govt. psych job marketing fatty gristle to housewives as healthy and it was a marked slippery slope to chronic rebellion from there on in...but that in itself might just be a lightweight anecdote poured around literary circles..iunno

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 13:01
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

The trad version is that he became nonplussed in his govt. psych job marketing fatty gristle to housewives as healthy and it was a marked slippery slope to chronic rebellion from there on in...but that in itself might just be a lightweight anecdote poured around literary circles..iunno

Yeah, sounds like a snow job to me.

dan i el
15th May 2011, 13:06
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

The trad version is that he became nonplussed in his govt. psych job marketing fatty gristle to housewives as healthy and it was a marked slippery slope to chronic rebellion from there on in...but that in itself might just be a lightweight anecdote poured around literary circles..iunno

Yeah, sounds like a snow job to me.

Yes, he seems like he was the innate archetypal rebel to me, Eton or not...a good one that didn't turn tail and return to the fold.

edit) in terms of apprehensions that some may hold as to the alleged Fabian/international communist agenda sub-narratives to his work, imho, one only has to read "Homage to Catalonia" to understand where he was coming from. of course, "Animal Farm" works too but sometimes people claim it a double bluff -- which, personally, I think is quite a numb pov lol

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 13:10
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

The trad version is that he became nonplussed in his govt. psych job marketing fatty gristle to housewives as healthy and it was a marked slippery slope to chronic rebellion from there on in...but that in itself might just be a lightweight anecdote poured around literary circles..iunno

Yeah, sounds like a snow job to me.

Yes, he seems like he was the innate archetypal rebel to me, Eton or not...a good one that didn't turn tail and return to the fold.

Like many whistleblowers, he knew that to just come out and write a book would not only get him killed, it might not get published.
So, he wrote it as faction.
There is another clue for you good avalonuggets.

9eagle9
15th May 2011, 13:17
One wonders if racism and bloodlines have something to do with each other. Not so much race or skin color prejudice but against the bloodline associations with any given race.

It seems there were some who were hell bent on destroying certain races. Why? The Irish and the Native American cultures were not treated so very differently in terms of conquer. And prior to the introduction of Christianity, Celtic culture was not so very different than Native American culture-- when you get past surface details the two are nearly indistinguishable.

When I began reading this thread it popped into my head (pop) that Orwell may have associations with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who was well known for his Sherlock Holmes stories but less well known for this Theosophical activities. I didn't find any associations between the two men, but maybe one is not so far off with the Theosophical element?

dan i el
15th May 2011, 13:17
Just a 2c as the thread is very academic and I don't want to sully that..

I read, a number of times, that, after the publication of 1984, Blair retreated to Dura for fear of assassination, and although the boat from the mainland was only once a month, or so, he diligently would meet it at the harbour, from a distance, to try and see if there were any would be M15 assassins among those arriving.

Never heard that one before.
Thanks for that, it sounds about right.

The trad version is that he became nonplussed in his govt. psych job marketing fatty gristle to housewives as healthy and it was a marked slippery slope to chronic rebellion from there on in...but that in itself might just be a lightweight anecdote poured around literary circles..iunno

Yeah, sounds like a snow job to me.

Yes, he seems like he was the innate archetypal rebel to me, Eton or not...a good one that didn't turn tail and return to the fold.

Like many whistleblowers, he knew that to just come out and write a book would not only get him killed, it might not get published.
So, he wrote it as faction.
There is another clue for you good avalonuggets.

Please confirm that you are not talkng about Starwars now :P

9eagle9
15th May 2011, 13:39
It's not unusual to fictionalize 'truth' either by intent or accidentally. I slide certain truths in my writing and I'm not afraid to reveal them because most of the sheep will ignore it but its nearly a beacon for other people who are of a more clear minded intent. The truth isn't so much hidden its ignored or dismissed as fictionalized.

Someones idea for a great story may not be an 'idea' at all and Star Wars is an example of certain truths about our nature. I work with what I call 'clear' martial artists, that allow spiritual and mental energies to work through their bodies, or rather have kept the spiritual aspect of the art in their expression. They really ID with Star Wars because there is a basic undeniable truth. Is Chi so very different from the Force? No. You can draw energy from anything and you can see with your eyes closed. I'm not referring to people who want to get a black belt to bolster their self esteem like they do here in America but people who are more of the warrior monk ilk.

Star Wars also retained a certain element of co-creation that our modern new agey world shrinks from --applied FORCE, (Violence). People shrink from the word not realizing its a necessary part of co creation. Its one you have to be careful with as Yoda attempted to express to where its not ruling you. You contain it, it doesn't consume you. Like Fire. Like anything else really.

TWINCANS
15th May 2011, 13:42
I also couldn't find any associations to the Theosophical movement, or the Anthroposophical movement for that matter. The Fabian Society doesn't really 'fit' with the other 2 which are very much based on Spiritualism as I remember them.

Is anyone able to find a link between Fabianism and Theosophy? Because they coexisted in the same time and place(s) and shared at least some members you would think there's a link.

TWINCANS
15th May 2011, 13:46
re LS's posting:
"Like many whistleblowers, he knew that to just come out and write a book would not only get him killed, it might not get published.
So, he wrote it as faction.
There is another clue for you good avalonuggets."


As was Gulliver's Travels, Humpty Dumpty, The Emperor's new Clothes etc. and all the group-written 'Shakespeare' plays? Satirical fiction is an oft-used shield for social criticism. Where do we go with that carrot?

BTW Did you mean to misspell fiction?

dan i el
15th May 2011, 13:49
re LS's posting:
"Like many whistleblowers, he knew that to just come out and write a book would not only get him killed, it might not get published.
So, he wrote it as faction.
There is another clue for you good avalonuggets."


As was Gulliver's Travels, Humpty Dumpty, The Emperor's new Clothes etc. and all the group-written 'Shakespeare' plays? Satirical fiction is an oft-used shield for social criticism. Where do we go with that carrot?

BTW Did you mean to misspell fiction?

couldn't resist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

9eagle9
15th May 2011, 13:53
Ask one's self why Dan Brown's fictional novels caused so much angst in the religious world when he clearly stated they were fiction. Me thinks the Vatican doth protested too much. And that was very revealing on its own not so much the fiction but the reaction from the Faction ;)

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 13:53
re LS's posting:
"Like many whistleblowers, he knew that to just come out and write a book would not only get him killed, it might not get published.
So, he wrote it as faction.
There is another clue for you good avalonuggets."


As was Gulliver's Travels, Humpty Dumpty, The Emperor's new Clothes etc. and all the group-written 'Shakespeare' plays? Satirical fiction is an oft-used shield for social criticism. Where do we go with that carrot?

BTW Did you mean to misspell fiction?

Faction is how I describe fiction based on fact to get under the radar. ;)

mondaze
15th May 2011, 14:08
"A modest proposal" was one of the first tracts we read in English literature at uni. Very prophetic given the effects of the potato famine not much more than a decade later...another writer in the 'know'

charlesfrith
15th May 2011, 14:40
I came across something on this a few days ago from David Icke. He pointed out that Orwell was part of the Fabian society and that like Mary Shelly he had an idea of what the future was going to be?

charlesfrith
15th May 2011, 14:59
Amazing find. I'm gobsmacked and feeling stupid about everything.

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 15:05
Amazing find. I'm gobsmacked and feeling stupid about everything.

Why would you feel like that?
None of us knows it all.
Let go of that and just be.
Nugget. :p

Carmody
15th May 2011, 15:21
As for bloodline decimation and intent to do so, this is, to my understanding, a component of Eastern Europe to some degree. At least in my limited knowledge of such a thing being in a given cultural background. I certainly would not say that it does not exist in other cultures and areas. I have a friend who's entire family name was wiped out by Stalin and Crew. This, for daring to fight him (and his associations) after WWII was 'over'. Their crime...was being effective.

Carmody
15th May 2011, 15:59
Hello Sid,

Um Orwell's brother (or Blair, whatever) was privvy to the illumanti's plans?

M'Lord why do you play such drawn-out games?

If you have the answers, why not just spit your info out and give us the good stuff if you're in the know.

Life is too short to play games these days.

Yes, I know you will say info shouldn't be put on a plate 'chewed up and ready to be digested'. But I think most of us here are pretty savvy, already. :hail:

Love Lily
x

It is the journey that shapes us, not the destination, for you would not be able to reach it without the journey.
You learn more by looking for yourselves and get knowledge AROUND the topic as well, rather than I just spit it at you.
Don't worry, your Uncle Sidious will assemble it all, once you have all the pieces required.

And mondaze, I will review your video later, I am having one of those days and don't have the patience for it right now.
Sorry.

Uncle Sid,

I think you may need to spend some time in the garden and turn your computer off.

I have no desire to chase people around with their promises of telling me what is correct for days on end, with cryptic offerings. Like most people on this forum I've been chasing the truth for a few years now. I am getting very frustrated with time-wasters of those who say they know the truth and lead people on for an age without getting to the point. I work very hard for a living and love having this space to communicate with like-minded people in rare times to myself.

Tell people what you want to say, say it and then tell them what you've told them. Simple. Wasting people's time is just a ego trip, in my humble opinion.

Your last sentence is very telling, you don't have the patience now or the time to attend to Mondaze's video. Well it's your choice to be on here stringing everyone along. You've been on here for the last week, non-stop....

Turn your computer off and dig your fingers in the soil Uncle Sid.

And I don't need you or anyone else to tell me when everything has been assembled, according to you, to make sense of anything and to be given answers. I don't have all the pieces to the puzzle and neither do you.

Love Lily
x

Just a general note, nothing intended by grabbing this post in the specific:

With regard to functional (for society, individuals and effective advancement of humans) advancement, it is generally noted that people cannot effectively learn by rote methodology of repeating given information. They have to be active participants for it to have lasting value or staying power, in their given lives. 'gimme a bunch of information and I'll make a value judgment on it' really does not hold much water when compared to how people operate on the base level. This aspect of academia is part of the problem that exists today with regard to the dogmatic foundation of scientific methodology. The roots of the issue revolve around the origins of scientific methodology and how it came about, who put the system together.

The situation is more complex than most people are willing to entertain, this...through having no experience with the complexities that humans can give into themselves in these social-political-cultural games. Games that can have very heinous reasons for existing. Complex, debasing, Machiavellian inhumane garbage is what it is, for the most part.

There is a subset of sociopathic and intelligent people who seem to exist solely to manipulate humankind through these complex hidden and semi-hidden games. The situation exists simply due to the incapacity of the common man to understand that such doorways or pathways for manipulation of the public ....can even exist. Besides any given incapacity or lack of desire to 'figure it out'. They walk away from the complexity..that they refuse to see or understand --even exists.

To return to being on point.....: Most importantly, the discovery aspect of much of how such structures (the theories of science, there are no laws of science) were arrived at... was removed and a dogmatic repetitious ritualistic casting of the information was enacted at that point. The rote teaching methodology was created. The ideas and theories were solidified into factual considerations and their very core meaning was lost and turned into dogma. The point being that the Renaissance man, the discoverer, was removed from the heart of the system of science ...... and erected in it's stead, was a quasi-religious structure of the factualization of theories.

It is most important to remember that the word 'law' pertains to controlling social and cultural norms as expected and desired by a given group. A stated situation where violation of law becomes punishment for the individual who many be violating those given cultural and social norms.

As yourself how a bunch of theoreticians who knew and understood all their works as MERELY theory that is subject to alteration, modification or change should new data emerge..ask yourself how their works were somehow turned into LAW.

The data that is new, it emerges all the time and indeed there is a record of ignored and new data that goes back hundreds of years and thousands in some cases.

All science is theory, there are no laws. The source of the 'scientific law' mystique that has been deeply inserted into the system... is a real and serious question. Within the scope of that, after digging...you will find issue with the very fabric of the creation of the idea of scientific methodology, as a teaching and schooling method.

What it seems to be saying is that someone or some group worked very hard to control the creation aspects or evolution aspects of the emergence of structured science..into a specific direction and form.

Which is why, as one works on getting all this material clear, to unfold into a new space or consideration, they must watch for the same hand intruding into these particular endeavors - right now) As for Charles point about people being approached after they reach a certain financial/influence threshold, or this given group inserting themselves into one's endeavors and purposely taking them over or destroying them..this is indeed true from my direct observation and through anecdotal stories from others.

As an example, if you start a small company that makes bags for doggie poop, you are probably not going to run into them. But..if you create a company that wants to (and will) move into technology, something that might go somewhere, I can guarantee you that you WILL run into them, but you might not recognize what you are looking at. BE AWARE.

My own research is, shall we say, supported by first hand observations. One gentleman whom I ran into told the story of his involvement with Freemasons. He said that Freemasons are so deep into the system of academia, that when he went in front of a panel to receive his Doctorate, he spoke a few key words and the entire panel individually signed to him that they were Freemasons as well. This man was also involved in the origins of superconductor alloys. The point is that the 'ranks' of freemasons are not really aware of this manipulation from on high, in their own system. They joined up as they have a joining mentality. A joining mentality is one of a group mentality so manipulation within the group is a thing that tends to be difficult for such a person's psychology to witness or even understand exists. They are thus hung by their inherent blindness that is part of their baseline psychology.

My information is not just historical and based on so called records, but it is also anecdotal and ...direct. Modern.

Note I say that intrusion exists. There are those who come to this forum ---to do the same, for various reasons.

I will say that Freemasons and what is behind them --is only one group. There are others, obviously.

charlesfrith
15th May 2011, 16:13
Also Icke points out that Mary Shelley was prescient with her Frankenstein novel and was a member of the Fabian society. What secrets did they know?

9eagle9
15th May 2011, 16:14
"A modest proposal" was one of the first tracts we read in English literature at uni. Very prophetic given the effects of the potato famine not much more than a decade later...another writer in the 'know'

People seem to think the potato is a traditional food of the Irish. But my grandmother stated the potato was imposed on the Irish by the British to grow as food crop, leaving little else to eat eventually so when the potato famine, the fungal infection that spread throughout the potato growth, decimated the crop the Irish basically were starved either into death or immigration. And potatoes were not introduced into Europe until the 1600's or so; the potato was relatively new to the Irish diet. And when one went to America they were viewed as unhealthy people. I suspect they were malnourished even prior to the Potato Famine even during times where there was plenty to eat.

Christianity chewed them up, the Prods spat them out and the alteration of their natural diet pretty much finished them off.

One wonders if this is by design or if the PTB got the idea of altering economics and population growth via the food supply by the Potato famine. Whatever the case that wasn't an entirely unfortunate naturally occurring episode , but the result of some assholery imposed on the Irish.

Nothing new certainly.

The Natives had their culture, the buffalo taken from them, and their land and were handed ag tools, and small pox laden blankets.

The Irish had their culture taken from them, their land taken from them and given the potato.

And today we are given property seizures (foreclosures) vaccinations, and fast and genetically altered food.

Has anything changed?

And..like the Native Americans the Irish are known have a problem with deep imbedded anger, (Irish 'temper') generational, karmic, pastlife related and probably genetic which manifests itself in the form of alcohol abuse. Its not a joke that Irish people are known to be drinky. Not a racial or character flaw, quirk or genetic inclination--one wonders how drinky the Irish were before Christianity imposed itself and the Protestant rule of Ireland insinuated itself into the Irish psyche. Any Native American could tell you why. My great grandfather said it was generally a euphemism among the IRA (for some) that effectively free themselves of the English one had to first free oneself from the Pope. I consider that rather prophetic in light of what is being known about the Vatican today.

Lord Sidious
15th May 2011, 16:20
Never forget too, that Irish indentured servants were considered lower than slaves and more expendable too.

Carmody
15th May 2011, 16:34
Also Icke points out that Mary Shelley was prescient with her Frankenstein novel and was a member of the Fabian society. What secrets did they know?

This is probably ancient Egyptian in origins.

Read this... and also the 'pyramid building solved' thread in the archeology area.

http://pesn.com/2011/05/15/9501826_Report_on_Reich_Research_from_Group_in_Gre ece/

mondaze
15th May 2011, 16:34
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

mondaze
15th May 2011, 17:41
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pr54s
i'm not sure if people outside uk can access this programme but to those that can, you might get an insight into the frankfurt school...

mosquito
16th May 2011, 05:33
Thanks Mondaze, I'm in China and I can access it, listening now !!!
Quite surprised actually, this sort of thing is a bit hit and miss here !

charlesfrith
16th May 2011, 07:52
The tone of this reminds me of Charles Forts book of the damned. Nice post. Thanks.

charlesfrith
16th May 2011, 07:57
I'm interested in Star Wars writing that had deeper knowledge of more than a movie if you have any links. Thanks.

Carmody
16th May 2011, 15:04
I'm interested in Star Wars writing that had deeper knowledge of more than a movie if you have any links. Thanks.

George Lucas had a NDE (Near Death Experience) just before he wrote the basic components of the star wars saga. He was driving a car and was at an angled intersection shaped like this > "y"... and he pulled out of the intersection and was hit by a truck, IIRC. Or something moving pretty fast. Basically he left ....and came back. Then he wrote the Star wars basic form and shape. Everything evolved from that point of the NDE, is my recollection. Do research on his vehicular accident. You may not find very much on it, these days. It is not very well known, from my searches on it. I found it, as pieces of information go, nearly 15 years back.

janus
16th May 2011, 15:42
however this is a point i have made on several threads regarding language. More and more of our media use language which is metanymical rather than using exact words and inferances. Thus you cannot break it down accurately and attack it. This makes both discourse and dissent almost impossible


yes and Chomsky, the linguist and leftist, knows quite a lot about this, here a co forum post


Originally Posted by MariaDine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawGakdNoT0

This is an excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate .

Lately, Chomsky has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and «bought priesthood« of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties intertwined through common interests.
In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Chomsky along with his coauthor Edward S. Herman has written that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
Chomsky has condemned the 2010 supreme court ruling revoking the limits on campaign finance, calling it "corporate takeover of democracy."


Taking into account that almost all media are now owned by 7 individuals in US,(see Carmody's post) it makes it extremely easy to reduce the grammar to its minimum and only to its emotional components. Activating the masses is therefore very easy (see Bernays).


Bernays and Lippmann sat together on the U.S. Committee on Public Information during World War I and Bernays quotes Lippmann extensively in his seminal work Propaganda.

According to Edward Louis Bernays:

"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits."

He called this scientific technique of opinion-molding the 'engineering of consent'.

Flash
16th May 2011, 16:05
"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits."[/B]

He called this scientific technique of opinion-molding the 'engineering of consent'.

I would definitly argue that it is much easier than what Bernays said about the control of masses. The engineering of consent is that, engineering of consent, by omitting information, generalising other information, distorting more information, creating new illusions, putting the information they want to provide in as many sensory perception as possible, creating distraction and counting on the lesser education now provided as well as the language deficiencies implemented and you have much better control than ever dreamed of before. Add to this herd behaviors, that have been studied since Bernays, and this is not that difficult. US went to war in Iraq with these ways of behaving!

Lets put it that way: if Canada elected Harper, it is easy to control masses!! (personal opinion of course):rolleyes:

The problem here is that I can't follow anylonger what this has to do with the thread topic.:ohwell:

janus
16th May 2011, 18:44
I was late to the party and responded to your post because I find Bernays interesting. Propaganda has come a long way since his time...I agree.

My thinking goes something like propaganda can be a two-edged sword to tptb...it can herd people in a certain direction without them being consciously aware of it, but it can also be used to disseminate information not normally available to the average person through a story...such as "1984" or "Animal Farm".

jjl
16th May 2011, 20:37
His son Richard Blair worked for many years as an agricultural agent for the British government.

Carmody
17th May 2011, 01:13
however this is a point i have made on several threads regarding language. More and more of our media use language which is metanymical rather than using exact words and inferances. Thus you cannot break it down accurately and attack it. This makes both discourse and dissent almost impossible


yes and Chomsky, the linguist and leftist, knows quite a lot about this, here a co forum post


Originally Posted by MariaDine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WveI_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawGakdNoT0

This is an excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate .

Lately, Chomsky has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and «bought priesthood« of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties intertwined through common interests.
In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Chomsky along with his coauthor Edward S. Herman has written that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
Chomsky has condemned the 2010 supreme court ruling revoking the limits on campaign finance, calling it "corporate takeover of democracy."


Taking into account that almost all media are now owned by 7 individuals in US,(see Carmody's post) it makes it extremely easy to reduce the grammar to its minimum and only to its emotional components. Activating the masses is therefore very easy (see Bernays).


Bernays and Lippmann sat together on the U.S. Committee on Public Information during World War I and Bernays quotes Lippmann extensively in his seminal work Propaganda.

According to Edward Louis Bernays:

"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits."

He called this scientific technique of opinion-molding the 'engineering of consent'.

The group mind always works as an undercurrent of emotional contact. It is, at minimum, three layers of communication down (three layers more primitive) from the internal mental mind and it's internal musings.

Which is why it is so easy to use posturing, imagery, and insincere words ---to sway or move them.

This is why...we ALL individually know, in some way or another how to get to where we want to go.

However, translating that to a group consensus, is near impossible.

When groupthink finally raises itself another notch, so a more rarefied communication is possible than the known parameters of crowd psychology...THEN..humankind will change.

This is also why someone who is not of great or astute mental capacity but IS sociopathic and amoral/unethical/inhumane--- this is how they can manipulate a large group of conscientious and thinking individuals.

It is not our ignorance or any other person's given ignorance --- it never was, and never will be.

It is our incapacity to communicate in a groupthink at a high enough level.

~THAT~ is our collective Achilles heel.

TWINCANS
17th May 2011, 01:19
I'm interested in Star Wars writing that had deeper knowledge of more than a movie if you have any links. Thanks.

George Lucas had a NDE (Near Death Experience) just before he wrote the basic components of the star wars saga. He was driving a car and was at an angled intersection shaped like this > "y"... and he pulled out of the intersection and was hit by a truck, IIRC. Or something moving pretty fast. Basically he left ....and came back. Then he wrote the Star wars basic form and shape. Everything evolved from that point of the NDE, is my recollection. Do research on his vehicular accident. You may not find very much on it, these days. It is not very well known, from my searches on it. I found it, as pieces of information go, nearly 15 years back.


I thought it was channelled from The Nine. NOTE: My bad. That was Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry. Thanks for the George Lucas info.

Flash
17th May 2011, 01:35
humankind will change.
[/I]
This is also why someone who is not of great or astute mental capacity but IS sociopathic and amoral/unethical/inhumane--- this is how they can manipulate a large group of conscientious and thinking individuals.

It is not our ignorance or any other person's given ignorance --- it never was, and never will be.

It is our incapacity to communicate in a groupthink at a high enough level.

~THAT~ is our collective Achilles heel.

I had never seen the groupthink under this angle. It makes perfect sense. How do you think we could bring it a notch higher?

TWINCANS
17th May 2011, 02:21
I think that to paraphrase "The group mind always works as an undercurrent of fear emotion contact..."

So when the consciousness sits in the oversoul or higher lightbody, not identifying with the ego body and without fear driving the emotional body, then there's the possibility of a merge or partial merge of consciousness, leading to telepathy. The higher frequencies are group frequencies. The lower ones (Earth's 3D one is the lowest) are individuation frequencies. So the key is to drop fear, increase your frequency and also the amount of light in your aura.

Carmody
17th May 2011, 02:28
humankind will change.
[/I]
This is also why someone who is not of great or astute mental capacity but IS sociopathic and amoral/unethical/inhumane--- this is how they can manipulate a large group of conscientious and thinking individuals.

It is not our ignorance or any other person's given ignorance --- it never was, and never will be.

It is our incapacity to communicate in a groupthink at a high enough level.

~THAT~ is our collective Achilles heel.

I had never seen the groupthink under this angle. It makes perfect sense. How do you think we could bring it a notch higher?

first identify the problem.

(Then it gets tricky)
Second, get that into people - individually.

third remove emotional overtones.

A good friend of mine was a world class debater. One major point he always makes is that as soon as one gets emotional in their debate tactics, they've lost. The audience that one is attempting to reach, they disconnect. It's over. Once one brings their emotional heat into their subtext or carrier wave of their communications, then the communication ceases. After that, either they emotionally agree with you or they emotionally dismiss you.

If one is trying to control an already known and connected to quantity, then it's a case of using emotions to keep them in thrall. Thus...Glen Beck, and Bill O'Reiley.

First, you have to reach the people. It cannot be done via emotional casting, this fails as it even begins. Thus, to get people to face the new and the unknowns, no panic, no emotions, no rising emotions and no provocative speech or similar arrangement of words/speech.

Now, think of the overall tone of my past 2000 or so posts.

There is a method to my madness. :evil:

Bill's past involves working with people. Note the similarity of our posting styles, with regard to heat or emotion in them. This is done not because the emotion is absent in the person posting, but that the emotion in the subtext or overt emotion in the post ....is simply not effective. Never waste your energy 'preaching to the pew', or the 'already converted'.

An emotional reaction in the target in any difficult intellectually based communication endeavor is pretty well a 100% guarantee that you've lost the target and they've lost the data.

Note that the 'democrats' (liberals) attempt to reach people with calm reason, for the most part.

Note the 'republican' (conservative) line of going after people with emotion. To KEEP their group in thrall.

This is the exact kind of thing that Orwell, Huxley, and Bernays were acutely aware of. Any good politician is, as well. So are the corporations that run things from the shadows. Same deal.

The public is kept in emotional thrall or confusion in other cases/ways... so that thought never begins.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now I know why this line was handed to me by my muse, about 3 hours back. it is very important to this subject. it is an old issue of the groupthink mentality, the herd mentality. This is my post from the 'Christ has returned' thread. It is the last line, here:

Since this has become a rambling thread, I'd like to say that I bought 'the power of now' (Eckhart Tolle) at a junk store about an hour ago. Driving home, I opened it for a second, as I waiting at a stop light. Most, if not all, that Tolle writes, I already know. But refreshers and different viewpoints can help. They always do. I used a thing sometimes called 'bibliomancy' which is thinking a clear thought and then flipping pages of a book...then you stop..and begin reading. This is surprisingly good, most times.

This I did -with his book. Sort of. I was not attempting to do so, really. But The first thing I read when I flipped and stopped to read was, 'do you find yourself thinking of the past? things you wish you could have done, or done better?". The light changed. Off I went.

Then my muse spoke to me.

It said, "The past catching up with you, that never happens. Never fear that. What happens to people, what catches up with them--is their fear of the future."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ie, you are kept in a state of fearing your future. That is the modern tactic that is at play. Recall that the mind is a device that works on pre-conceived notions, or shapes, ideals, words, structures, a whole cataloge of things that it keeps at the surface of the mind in order to identify things --faster. Fast enough to operate on a second to second basis. The same goes for expectations in the face of unknowns... and this is due to emotions. Our origins are designed around the idea of emotions coming first. So we feel our way through unknowns with our emotions, first. Then intellect. Fight or flight is paramount and owns your mind in the face of unknowns. See the thread of pilotsimone moving across the country, in the past few days. There it is, right there. It's not being in a war, it's the waiting for the war to begin that tears a person down.

The body uses emotions and direct physical input at the base level. Your thoughts have to start there as murmurings and then move upward through your edifice then into subconscious creation and then the mental mind speaks them, via the ego function. The ego function is part and parcel of the lower, subconscious emotional function. It is a reflection of the intellect of the body, given voice. It is emotionally based. Back to that thing of the voice in the head being created and shaped by the body, it is not the intellect itself.

If anyone thinks this is crazy, show a man an image of ...or in person, a woman whom he thinks is very beautiful and attractive. Watch the underlying monkey remove all of his highest level intellectual function. This has been tested and it is indeed true.

The thing is to know this sort of thing as an expression that can be communicated.

Before that, it must be identified and quantified. Only then can it be communicated and/or analyzed.

Jim Marrs, for example, writes incredible books that are incredibly effective for a few very simple reasons. One of the biggest, is the horrific things he is revealing, are not relayed in an emotional cast. None. Zip. Nada. Thus... the information gets into your skull.

TWINCANS
17th May 2011, 03:55
re "Note that the 'democrats' (liberals) attempt to reach people with calm reason, for the most part.

Note the 'republican' (conservative) line of going after people with emotion. To KEEP their group in thrall...."

I can't agree with that. It's simplistic. Actually the Liberals are the group that in my opinion are rife with political correctness overtones. They would be the modern day 1984'ers of the Orwell forecast. Always presenting themselves as above everyone, morally. That is not calm reason, it's moral blackmail.

The Conservatives are just plain thieves.

Carmody
17th May 2011, 04:06
i was speaking to a general audience, is my excuse. Flash is from Canada, where the 'conservatives (blue party) are the equivalent of the USA Republicans. The 'liberals' are indeed that, 'liberals'. their color is red. This can get confusing.

In Canada, they have toed that divisor line far better than the US counterparts have. Not good or bad, just different. Canadian Liberals tend to try to appeal to reason, their republican counterpart, more to base emotions. Similar to the USA, but not quite the same.

as for simplistic, if you wish to win the war of groupthink, then the 'issue' must be disarmed in how it emotionally devolves the target, and it must be simply identified with catchy and memorable phrasing, names, and ideas.

They (and any associated situations) must be made a laughing stock of, and it must go viral.

This, in order to enable thought to return in the people they are targeting.

Yes, the matter is not that simple but one needs a plan.

Propose a counter plan that is at least as simple and pertinent, and at least as transmissible.

"Kidnap Pilot's wife--Issue Demands" --- 'Life of Brian'

If any of you have not seen the film 'wag the dog' I urge you to see it immediately. It is gut bustingly funny, pee yourself funny, yet the film is incredibly important and potent. It outlines what you are up against and the kind of tactics that are used on the public.


Right now, the problem centers around the actual identification of the 'issue' in the overall public's eyes.

If one can frame that in a simple way which can be mentally seen by the public, then you stand to have a chance. For this point is at least half the current battle. This is one of -if not the- core things that needs be worked on, in order to push the pile forward.

Secret societies are secret, for this very specific and exact reason.

The point is to understand that their entire thrust is one of a defensive position. They are trying to maintain a state or condition and push it further at the same time.

In this, they are vulnerable. As an example...understand that half of the why that the Israeli's are so dang nasty...is due to the truth of their position as being - very weak.

Anyone who is constantly fighting a battle like that (and the so called 'Illuminati' are) is automatically in a weak position. The point of clarity comes on that when you understand that humanity is not even battling them. The bulk of humankind is unaware.

A perfectly phrased or framed question automatically begets the answer.

The better you become at clearly framing the question, the more the answer will emerge from the clearing fog.

Flash
17th May 2011, 05:24
i was speaking to a general audience, is my excuse. Flash is from Canada, where the 'conservatives (blue party) are the equivalent of the USA Republicans. The 'liberals' are indeed that, 'liberals'. their color is red. This can get confusing.

In Canada, they have toed that divisor line far better than the US counterparts have. Not good or bad, just different. Canadian Liberals tend to try to appeal to reason, their republican counterpart, more to base emotions. Similar to the USA, but not quite the same.

as for simplistic, if you wish to win the war of groupthink, then they 'enemy' must be disarmed in how they emotionally devolve the target, and they must be simply identified with catchy and memorable phrasing, names, and ideas.

They (and any associated situations) must be made a laughing stock of, and it must go viral.

This, in order to enable thought to return in the people they are targeting.

Yes, the matter is not that simple but one needs a plan.

Propose a counter plan that is at least as simple and pertinent, and at least as transmissible.

"Kidnap Pilot's wife--Issue Demands" --- 'Life of Brian'

If any of you have not seen the film 'wag the dog' I urge you to see it immediately. It is gut bustingly funny, pee yourself funny, yet the film is incredibly important and potent. It outlines what you are up against and the kind of tactics that are used on the public.


Right now, the problem centers around the actual identification of the enemy in the overall public's eyes.

If one can frame that in a simple way which can be mentally seen by the public, then you stand to have a chance. For this point is at least half the current battle. This is one of -if not the- core things that needs be worked on, in order to push the pile forward.

Secret societies are secret, for this very specific and exact reason.

Thanks very much for both replies. As I am not sleeping anylonger;), I read them carefully. You are here helping me to transfrom my way of presenting.

I have been told I am a good presenter usually (live) because it is apparent that I love the crowd I am presenting to. I must say that I usually truly love people and although it is emotionally pleasant, I do not feel/live it as being only emotion based. I also like to communicate ideas, vulgarize them to make them easily grasped by regular folks. Well, as much as I can. Often I will start by putting people at ease, looking at their overtone, and then start the more reason based information. But I will often as well end up with some emotions. Does this means that the comprehension in the audience will be lacking? Even if the emotions are positive? I tought that reasoned information was easier to grasp and retain when coupled with positive emotions. But yes, there is probably a thrwaling effect. Does this hampers the communication of ideas already done though?

When I read you or Bill, yes, the content or ideas goes through (sometimes only, because following you could be a sport in itself), yes it is expressed in an equal non emotional tone, but you said it, this is not thrawling, not emotion based. It is as if if does not go down in the body and back up to the brain. It remains brain based - sometimes. It took me a long time to feel/live the heart that I was sure you had in your writings - and here I am not talking emotions, but really the heart, this encompassing benevolent life flowing through towards others. (I am not psychic yet, so I rely on reading lol).

This is very interesting Carmody.

Then what would you do to get "the pew", people, to achieve a notch higher in their communication abilities - apart from Twincans telepathy possibilities - so that we get out of this kind or primitive global hypnosis we are entrapped in (tearing the emotions thrawling effect based on fear)?. How do we do it efficiently and fast? And how do we pass information so that it is easily grasped by the average person?


Right now, the problem centers around the actual identification of the enemy in the overall public's eyes.

If one can frame that in a simple way which can be mentally seen by the public, then you stand to have a chance Yes, how?

I will sleep on this and tomorrow will surely see it another dozen different ways as well. (It takes me more time for processing with, I bet, 70 IQ points less).:whoo:

I love your muse, she has excellent advice, thank you for sharing this, she must also have known that I am presently personnally working on this (fear of the future).

Thanks.

TWINCANS
17th May 2011, 05:32
Darla has just posted a very interesting channelling from the Arcturians which has a few paragraphs at the opening that are relevant to this discussion. (Hint: they think improved communications will happen as part of the current progression)

Flash
17th May 2011, 05:42
Interesting Twincans this Darla posting, I just had a posts exchanges with Chicodoodoo and Northern Boy about beliefs as well. I really enjoyed reading her post. Thanks

charlesfrith
17th May 2011, 06:39
Great. That was what I wanted to know. Lots of useful context there. Thank you.

loveandgratitude
17th May 2011, 06:54
The Fabian Society – Creeping Communism

This, along with many other ‘Secret Societies’ work together for this ‘Common Purpose’…… we see this consistently with denial & delay tactics used in response to complaints by the people & the lies & omissions & twisted truths that spin doctors play out to the public in the mass media….

Creeping Communism

The Fabians whose logo until very recently was a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing are a breed of Communism who believed in Collectivism (Communism) by stealth and many of the Globalists would belong to this scheming organisation.

Since the collapse of Communism you can rest assured that they are now to be found amongst the Fabians.a

A LOOK AT LABIANS IN AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT

The Fabians are well established in Australia and many are in the Labor party. All of Prime Minister Gough Whitlam’s cabinet were Fabians and Prime Ministers Hawke and Keating also belonged to the Fabians.

On 19 July 2006 ex P.M. Malcolm Fraser spoke to the Fabians http://ttp//www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Malcolm+Fraser+and+the+Fabian+society&btnG=Search&meta=and on 22 MARCH 2006 P.M. Howard also spoke to them http://www.fabian.org.au/1048.asp

Either Gough Whitlam or John Faulkner is the current president and in the current Labor cabinet Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard amongst others are members of the society.

The London School of Economics has been their breeding ground.

Below is a history of this treacherous organisation which is intent on creating a one world dictatorial government.

*************

THE FABIAN SOCIETY

Notable members

Gough Whitlam (ALP Prime Minister 1972–75)
Bob Hawke (ALP Prime Minister 1983–1991)
Paul Keating (ALP Prime Minister 1991–1996)
John Cain (ALP Premier of Victoria)
Jim Cairns (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Don Dunstan (ALP Premier of South Australia)
Geoff Gallop (ALP Premier of Western Australia)
Neville Wran (ALP Premier of NSW 1976–86)
Frank Crean (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
Arthur Calwell (ALP Former Leader)
John Faulkner (ALP Senator and National President)
Julia Gillard (ALP Deputy Prime Minister)
John Lenders (ALP Treasurer of Victoria)
Henry Hyde Champion (Journalist)
John Percy Jones (Businessman)
Nettie Palmer (Writer)
Ernest Besant-Scott (Historian)
Lucy Morice (Feminist)
Charles Strong (Clergyman)
William Henry Archer (Statistician)
Edward Shann (Economist)
Charles Marson (Clergyman)
David Charleston (Trade Unionist)
John Howlett Ross (Teacher)
Bernard O’Dowd (Writer)
Phillip Adams (Broadcaster)

But there was another movement coming to birth at about this same time that eventually gave competition to the hard-core Marxists. Some of the more erudite members of the wealthy and intellectual classes of England formed an organization to perpetuate the concept of collectivism but not exactly according to Marx. It was called the Fabian Society.

The name is significant, because it was in honor of Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrrucosus, the Roman general who, in the second century B.C., kept Hannibal at bay by wearing down his army with delaying tactics, endless maneuvering, and avoiding confrontation wherever possible. Unlike the Marxists who were in a hurry to come to power through direct confrontation with established governments, the Fabians were willing to take their time, to come to power without direct confrontation, working quietly and patiently from inside the target governments. To emphasize this strategy, and to separate themselves from the Marxists, they adopted the turtle as their symbol. And their official shield portrays an image of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Those two images perfectly summarize their strategy.

It is now 1884, and we find ourselves in Surrey, England observing a small group of these Fabians, sitting around a table in the stylish home of two of their more prominent members, Sydney and Beatrice Webb. The Webbs later would be known world wide as the founders of the London School of Economics. Their home eventually was donated to the Fabian Society and became its official headquarters. Around the table are such well-known figures as George Bernard Shaw, Arnold Toynbee, H.G. Wells, and numerous others of similar caliber. By the way, the Fabian Society still exists, and many prominent people are members, not the least of which is England’s Ex Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

H.G. Wells wrote a book to serve as a guide showing how collectivism can be embedded into society without arousing alarm or serious opposition. It was called The Open Conspiracy, and the plan was spelled out in minute detail. His fervor was intense. He said that the old religions of the world must give way to the new religion of collectivism. The new religion should be the state, he said, and the state should take charge of all human activity with, of course, elitists such as himself in control. On the very first page, he says:

“This book states as plainly and clearly as possible the essential ideas of my life, the perspective of my world…. This is my religion. Here are my directive aims and the criteria of all I do.”

1 When he said that collectivism was his religion, he was serious. Like many collectivists, he felt that traditional religion is a barrier to the acceptance of state power. It is a competitor for man’s loyalties. Collectivists see religion as a device by which the clerics keep the downtrodden masses content by offering a vision of something better in the next world. If your goal is to bring about change, contentment is not what you want. You want discontentment. That’s why Marx called religion the opiate of the masses.

2 It gets in the way of revolutionary change.

Wells said that collectivism should become the new opiate, that it should become the vision for better things in the next world. The new order must be built on the concept that individuals are nothing compared to the long continuum of society, and that only by serving society do we become connected to eternity. He was very serious.

http://nwoobserver.wordpress.com/2009/09/05/the-fabian-society-creeping-communism/

Positive Vibe Merchant
17th May 2011, 07:57
WOW!

Thanks L&G being a victorian, this is really interesting. Never would have thought a thread about Orsen Welles would sail all the way down here :)

PVM

Flash
18th May 2011, 02:24
Interesting, here the link and below some translations: http://raisondetat.forumactif.com/t130-pacte-synarchique-dempire-la-societe-fabienne-fabian-society



Le groupe était essentiellement formés d'intellectuels issus de la classe moyenne anglaise. Parmi ses membres notables figurent : George Bernard Shaw, Walter Crane, Edith Nesbit, Leonard Woolf, Emmeline Pankhurst, H. G. Wells1, Annie Besant, Graham Wallas, Sidney Webb, Beatrice Webb.
The group (Fabian) was composed of intellectuals from the English middle classe. Renown members are:....

Des sociétés similaires existent aussi en Australie (the Australian Fabian Society), au Canada (the Douglas-Coldwell Foundation) et en Nouvelle-Zélande.
Similar societies in Australia and Canada

Critiques Critics

Leon Trotsky pensait que le fabianisme était une tentative pour sauver le capitalisme de la classe ouvrière.
Trotsky tought that fabianism was to try to save the capitalism from the working class.

Il écrit notamment : « à travers toute l'histoire du parti ouvrier britannique, il y eut des pressions de la bourgeoisie sur le prolétariat par le biais de radicaux et d'intellectuels de salon qui rejettent la lutte des classes et défendent le principe de solidarité sociale, prêchent la collaboration avec la bourgeoisie, brident, affaiblissent et dégradent politiquement le prolétariat. »
He wrote: "throughout the history of the British workers party, the "bourgeois" (gentrhy or upper middle class ) has put pressures on the working class through "salon" intellectuals rejecting the classes struggles in favour of social solidarity, preaching collaboration with the uppper middle class, weakening and degrading the working class".

« Le fabianisme, le MacDonaldisme et le pacifisme jouent aujourd'hui le même rôle vis à vis de l'histoire du prolétariat. Ils sont la propagande principale de l'impérialisme britannique, et de la bourgeoisie européenne, si ce n'est de celle mondiale. »
"The fabianism, the MacDonaldisme and the pacifism play the same role throughout the history of the working class. They are the main propaganda of the British imperialism, of the European upper middle class, if not the the world upper middle class."

Dans un article du journal The Guardian du 14 février 2008, suite aux excuses faites par le premier ministre australien Kevin Rudd aux "Générations volées", Geoffrey Robertson critique les socialistes fabiens pour « avoir fourni la justification intellectuelle à la politique eugénique qui a conduit au scandale des générations volées. »
In an article of The Guardian on February 2008, following excuses by the Australian Prime Minister kevin Rudd to the "stolen generations", Geoffrey Robertson criticise the Fabian Socialists for having supplied the intellectual justification to the eugenic politic that provoked the scandal link to the stolen generations.

Le livre 1984 de George Orwell est peut-être une dystopie, satire de ce qu'il imaginait être le monde prôné par les Fabiens
The book 1984 of George Orwell may be a dystopy, satyre of how the imagines what the Fabian world would be.

There is more interesting stuff, I will translate later.

mondaze
19th May 2011, 18:53
now about george orwell, rob ;) any more clues?

Lord Sidious
19th May 2011, 22:23
You guys are still not looking into the people he associated with enough.
You have some of it.
Keep looking and you will find it.

Noble Hops
19th May 2011, 22:42
That isn't what racism meant when the term was coined.
That is why I said we should have a thread for the frankfurt school, so we could discuss it and its ideologies.
Would it be ok with you to have these bits seperated into a stand alone thread Maria?
It is worth its own thread, most don't know of the frankfurt school.

Didn't Marx coin the term "racism" as a psychological weapon?

Lord Sidious
19th May 2011, 23:02
That isn't what racism meant when the term was coined.
That is why I said we should have a thread for the frankfurt school, so we could discuss it and its ideologies.
Would it be ok with you to have these bits seperated into a stand alone thread Maria?
It is worth its own thread, most don't know of the frankfurt school.

Didn't Marx coin the term "racism" as a psychological weapon?

It is based on his work, but he didn't coin the word.

Flash
19th May 2011, 23:22
Very interesting topic, very well documented and deep analysis of the Fabian Society. the author compares its solicalist views with the USSR and the American/Soviet imperialism. What he is saying is that under socialist auspices, the Fabian Society is in fact leading us, consciously, toward totalirianism.

Here the translation of a second part, a third about the Powerful financier behind it will follow soon.

La Société fabienne fait irruption en France sous l’appellation d’École d’Économie de Paris
par 6clopes le Mer 24 Fév - 0:30
Le jeudi 22 février 2007 fera date : pour la première fois dans l’Histoire contemporaine, la Société fabienne a fait irruption en France sous l’appellation d’École d’Économie de Paris.

For the first time the Fabian Society is in France in 2007 in the XIVe in Paris. It was founded in 1884 with the inspiration of the London School of Economics,, the Webb c ouple, Bertrand russel, George Bernard Shaw, H.G. Wells, Aldous Huxley from a century that would en up with a first world war and socialism utopias that would not stop the second world war 25 years later.

Elle s’est installée au 48 boulevard Jourdan dans le XIV° arrondissement. Le Figaro précise qu’elle est née « à l’inspiration de la London School of Economics (LES) », elle-même fondée à Londres le 4 janvier 1884 autour d’une dizaine d’écrivains, universitaires et chercheurs, dont les plus connus furent George Bernard Shaw, le couple Webb, Bertrand Russel et bientôt H.G. Wells et Aldous Huxley, personnalités célèbres d’un siècle finissant qui allait déboucher sur la Première Guerre mondiale et les utopies d’un socialisme qui n’empêcherait pas, vingt-cinq ans plus tard, la guerre de 1939-1945.

Par / by Pierre de Villemarest

At the head of utopists was the Fabian Society and its School of Economics, wanting to be progressist. But Engels would not appreciate this closed group of middle/upper class socialists, wanting to nationalise the productions means without thinking of the working class. Half a century later the Fabian Socialists that has nested in the Trav aillistes (I think this is the Blair’ party) would be proponents of an 8 hours /day work, of health and unemployment insurance as well as old age pension. At the beginning of their development based on a limitless admiration of the Soviet Union, their priority problem was to work with the “colonial office” to convert the world, emancipate the Commonwealth colonies and spread in every country..

À la tête des utopistes se trouvaient la Société fabienne et son École d’Économie. Le Figaro écrit que celle-ci se voulait « progressiste », mais il néglige de rappeler qu’Engels n’appréciait pas « cette clique de socialistes bourgeois » avide de nationaliser les moyens de production, sans un regard sur le sort de la classe ouvrière1. Certes, un demi-siècle plus tard, les socialistes fabiens, qui avaient fait leur nid dans le giron des Travaillistes, allaient s’intéresser à la journée de travail de huit heures et aux assurances vieillesse et maladie comme au chômage. Cependant, dans le premier temps de leur développement, fondé sur une admiration sans bornes pour l’Union soviétique, leur problème prioritaire était de travailler avec leur « bureau colonial », autre pilier de leur entreprise de conversion du monde, à l’émancipation des colonies du Commonwealth, et d’essaimer dans tous les pays.

It is interesting to note that the inauguration of the Paris School of Economics is under the presidence of Dominique de Villepin, the prime minister Jacques Chirac graduate of the Hautes Études Commerciales (business school) and an ex Harvard Business School graduate, therefore with an internationalist training. Around Villepin on the opening of the School was Roger Guesnerie, College of France professor and president of the Paris School of Economics, Daniel Cohen and Vinent d’Autume, vice-presidents, Thomas Piketty and Philippe Aghion, directors. All these men are members of the Cercle de la pensée (thinking circle), leftist and in Europe. The tendencies are therefore obvious, without any hesitations from the prime minister about the introduction in France of this School that has a somewhat interesting background in the last century.
Il est surprenant de noter que l’inauguration de l’École d’Économie de Paris (dite P.S.E., pour Paris School of Economics) s’est placée sous la présidence de Dominique de Villepin, le Premier ministre de Jacques Chirac, diplômé des Hautes Études Commerciales, mais dont on oublie souvent qu’il est un ancien de la Harvard Business School, ce qui indique une formation internationaliste.

Le 22 février 2007, se pressait autour de Villepin l’encadrement de l’École. À savoir : Roger Guesnerie, professeur au Collège de France et désormais président de la P.S.E. ; Daniel Cohen et Antoine d’Autume, vice-présidents de la nouvelle institution ; Thomas Piketty, directeur d’Études qui sera secondé par Philippe Aghion.
Tous ces messieurs appartiennent au Cercle de la Pensée « À gauche et en Europe ». La tendance est donc affichée, sans que le Premier ministre ait montré la moindre réserve à propos de cette implantation en France d’une École, dont on se doit de rappeler les antécédents les plus marquants au cours du précédent siècle.

One wonders if the French teachers in France will call upon the permanency of the thinking and the militarism of the Fabian in 1918-1990. During more than one century, its governing body have openly saluted the soviet collectivism, proclaiming in 1930 that a new civilisation was born in USSR and assured us that the new Stalinian constitution was the world’s most democratic one.

La question se pose en effet de savoir si ses enseignants en France feront appel à la permanence de la pensée et du militantisme fabiens de 1918 à 1990. Car, durant près d’un siècle, ses dirigeants ont ouvertement salué le collectivisme soviétique. Ils ont même proclamé durant les années 1930 dans leurs brochures et plusieurs ouvrages qu’une « nouvelle civilisation » était née en URSS, et assuré que la Nouvelle Constitution voulue par Staline en 1936 était « la plus démocratique du monde ».

The USSR and its empire have imploded in 1989, but with Vladimir Poutine, the communist party and the internationale have been replaced by the russian secret services. There is therefore a continuity of the old methods thanks to the control of production means and of energy by excellent experts, now authorised to managed without the old ideological controls. An imperialism is showing up, imperialism that we were condemning for the American, questions must be asked. Is the Fabian Society and its Schools keeping its last century ideologies and aspirations for a world that finally was under totalitarian management?

L’Union soviétique et son empire ont implosé en 1989, mais, avec Vladimir Poutine, l’appareil du parti communiste et celui de l’Internationale ont été remplacés par celui des services secrets russes. Il y a donc continuité des anciennes méthodes grâce à la prise en main des moyens de production et de l’énergétique par des experts et techniciens hors pair, désormais autorisés à une gestion débarrassée des anciens contrôles idéologiques.Se pointe une sorte d’impérialisme qu’on avait beau jeu hier de dénoncer du côté de la puissance américaine, et qui appelle des questions. La Société fabienne et ses Écoles maintiennent-elles leur idéologie du siècle passé et ses aspirations à un monde qui, finalement, était sous direction totalitaire ?

Never its leaders, starting with Bernard Shaw and the Webb, have had a word of compassion for those that the NKVD and KGB drove to the Goulag, while they were friends with Staline and its entourage. Never have they blamed the killings that were decimating the communists as much as the Russian citizens, from 1934 to 1938 and after 1945. Will the leaders now touch on those topics, because the Goulag was servicing the USSR economy before being spread into its satellite countries.

Jamais ses dirigeants, Bernard Shaw et les Webb en tête, lorsqu’ils fréquentaient Staline et son entourage, n’ont eu un mot de compassion pour ceux que le NKVD puis le KGB conduisaient au Goulag. Jamais ils n’ont blâmé les purges qui frappaient les communistes autant que les citoyens russes, notamment de 1934 à 1938 et encore après 1945. Une question encore : les dirigeants de la P.S.E. aborderont-ils ces sujets, puisqu’après tout le Goulag était au service de l’Économie de l’URSS, avant d’être ensuite étendue à son empire satellite ?

Next translations will be about the powerfull financial help to the Fabian Society.

Lord Sidious
19th May 2011, 23:44
That is more like it.

Wub
20th May 2011, 00:31
Evidently, Tony Blair was president of the Fabian Society before he became Prime Minister. Additionally, there appear to be very strong links with the Fabians and the City of London as well as The London School of Economics and what became the Federal Reserve in America!

Seems to me (from what I've read so far), that Eric Blair would've had contacts at city, LSE , North American and European levels...not sure yet what this means though....

Flash
20th May 2011, 00:47
This is toooooo interesting. I am in haste of finishing the translations for you guys to make all the links, in the meantime, read this, i underine in blue the interesting. The US capitalists funded the USSR communism and some of the US funded in part the Nazis (Bush family). Sooooo interesting, see the connections?

http://www.orwelltoday.com/trotskystalin.shtml


"I have read a good deal of Trotsky's book Life of Stalin....
As for the suggestion that Stalin was responsible for Lenin's death,
Trotsky does not claim to be able to prove it
but merely puts it forward as something inherently probable
and presents a certain amount of supporting evidence."

ORWELL ON TROTSKY ON STALIN

"It was unfinished when he was murdered and was completed by the translator....
The circumstances of Trotsky's assassination
may have been partly decided on because of the knowledge that
he was writing this very book."
~ George Orwell, May 1946

To Orwell Today,

Hi. I have a question.

How does the inclusion of Goldstein's Book in 1984 reflect George Orwell's views on Trotsky and Communism? If you could get back to me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony W.

Greetings Tony,

Emmanuel Goldstein's book, THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM, isn't at all about Trotsky who was merely a character in the Communist Revolution in Russia which itself was just a practice run for what Goldstein's oligarchical collectivists (corporate communists) plan to do everywhere in the world. See GOLDSTEIN'S PLAN FOR WORLD DOMINATION.

If you want Orwell's views on Trotsky you should read "Animal Farm" which is a parallel of the Bolshevik (Communist) Revolution that took over Russia in 1917, and it features the pigs "Snowball" as Trotsky and "Napoleon" as Stalin. In real life Orwell hated pigs and that is probably the main reason he chose pigs to portray the Communists.

After the Communists came to power in Russia there were fightings amongst themselves as to who would replace Lenin as leader of the Party when he died. Stalin (real name Dzhugashvili) and Trotsky (real name Bronstein) were competitors.

Trotsky had been living in New York during the years leading up to the Communist Revolution. His job had been to collect money from Communists in America and deliver it to the Communists in Russia to pay for the overthrow of the Czarist government. This he did, and afterwards he wanted to aggressively spread the Communist Revolution to every nation (the Comintern*). But Stalin and others (after Lenin's death) wanted to concentrate on destroying Russia first and keeping their plans for conqueuring the rest of the world "secret" from the other nations.

Stalin - a thug for Lenin prior to the revolution - won out over Trotsky who, on fear of death, left Russia and went to live in exile in Mexico. There he wrote a book entitled LIFE OF STALIN which included the allegation that Stalin had murdered Lenin. Stalin tried to stop Trotsky from writing the book and managed finally to infiltrate Trotsky's household and have him murdered by a supposed servant.

Orwell himself was worried about being on Stalin's hit-list ever since escaping his death squads in Spain after which he wrote HOMAGE TO CATALONIA exposing how the Communists helped Franco destroy the Spanish working-man's Revolution.In the spring of 1946 someone sent Orwell a copy of Trotsky's book, LIFE OF STALIN, which was being suppressed, and Orwell tried to get his publisher, Fred Warburg, to publish it.

Here's the letter Orwell wrote to his publisher: (The time period is post-war London just before Orwell moves to the island of Jura for the purpose of writing "1984".)

27B Canonbury Square
Islington
London N1
4 May 1946

Dear Fred,

I am sending under separate cover on Monday Trotsky's Life of Stalin and Victor Serge's memoirs, which I received yesterday. I have only looked at the latter to the extent of seeing that it is an untidy manuscript, but if it is up to the extracts which were printed in Politics it should be a worth-while book. I thought it better to send it straight on because I might not get time to read it. I have been called out of London at rather short notice. I am sorry to say one of my sisters has died unexpectedly, and I have to go up to Nottingham on Monday. However, I'll be back in London before finally leaving about next Friday, and I hope to see you and Roger then.

As to the Trotsky book. I haven't read all of it, but I have read a good deal of it, mostly the bits dealing with Stalin's childhood, with the civil war and with the alleged murder of Lenin. With regard to the reason for its previous withdrawal by Harper's, an editorial note in the Partison Review for March-April 1942 states:

Three books, either critical or definitely hostile to the present
regime in Russia, have been withdrawn from publication after
having been publicly announced . . . also Trotsky's Life of Stalin.
The latter book was actually sent out for review, only to be
recalled a few days later (on December 12) by a note signed by
President Cass Canfield which concludes, 'We hope you will
co-operate with us in the matter of avoiding any comment
whatever regarding the biography and its postponement.'

I think it is clear, especially having regard to the date (a week after the USA entered the war) that the reason for withdrawal must have been to avoid offending Russian sentiment and not, as subsequently alleged, because of objections raised by the Trotskyists. If there had been any of the latter I should have heard of them, especially as I have once or twice referred in print to the existence of this suppressed book. And in any case, if Harper's previously withdrew the book because the Trotskyists objected, why are they reissuing it now?

As to the book's intrinsic value. I should think it would be well worth publishing if you could buy sheets for say 1,000 copies and bind them up. To produce it anew would, I suppose, be very expensive and would use up a lot of paper for a rather specialised book. It seems to me that it is quite a bona fide book in the sense of being either Trotsky's own work or, in the uncompleted pasages, the kind of thing that he would have said. It was unfinished when he was murdered and was completed by the translator. Wherever it is not Trotsky this is indicated by square brackets, and one could presumably verify from Trotsky's widow and others near to him that the emendation has been done honestly. I found the earlier parts, referring to Stalin's childhood and early history as a revolutinary particularly interesting because they demonstrate the difficulty of establishing any fact about a public figure who has become a subject for propaganda. I think all this part, and that referring to the civil war, successfully brings out, what can hardly be said too often, that Stalin was a secondary figure until about 1925 and the picture now presented him as Lenin's right-hand man etc is a fabrication. The passages referring to the inner politics of the party are to me somewhat tedious, but I suppose they can have an interest for specialists. By and large I should say that the book has historical value and, though of course it is not unprejudiced, is grown-up compared with what is written about similar subjects on the other side. The whole history of the Russian revolution has to be pieced together from fragments lying here and there among huge mounds of lies and the more unofficial first-hand documents that get into print, the better. As for the suggestion that Stalin was responsible for Lenin's death, Trotsky does not claim to be able to prove it but merely puts it forward as something inherently probable and presents a certain amount of supporting evidence. It seems to me the sort of inference that a historian ought to be allowed to draw, even if one does not agree with it. Stalin, after all, did have Trotsky assassinated.

This is not the sort of book that I myself would want to read in toto for its own sake, but I think it is the sort of book that ought to be in print. If one were adding an introduction for the English edition, it might be worth trying to get a little more information about the circumstances of Trotsky's assassination, which may have been partly decided on because of the knowledge that he was writing this very book. There had been an earlier attempt on his life, and one might be able to infer something from knowing the date of this. . . .

Yours
George

[taken from pages 194-196, Volume IV, In Front of Your Nose, The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell]

I hope that answers your question about Orwell's views on Trotsky, ie that he was an insider who had revelations about Communism and Stalin that would be valuable for the Western World to read. Trotsky, like other Communist Capitalists, was a follower of Goldstein's theories and practices which are interwoven into Orwell's nightmare world of "1984".
All the best,
Jackie Jura

PS - I don't think Warburg or anyone else ever did publish Life of Stalin by Trotsky.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UK Prime Minister reveals an unexpected influence: Trotsky. Independent, Mar 3, 2009 (...PM Tony Blair revealed his favourite reading matter at a World Book Day event in London yesterday. Blair said: "There were people who got me very involved in politics. But then there was also a book. It was a trilogy, a biography of Trotsky by Isaac Deutscher, which made a very deep impression on me and gave me a love of political biography for the rest of my life."...)

How Western capitalists funded Lenin, the Bolsheviks, and the Soviet Union
Trotsky traveled from New York to Petrograd on a passport supplied by the intervention of Woodrow Wilson, and with the declared intention to "carry forward" the revolution. The British government was the immediate source of Trotsky's release from Canadian custody in April 1917...

JOSEPH STALIN (Stalin became general secretary of the Soviet Communist Party in 1922 and following the death of Vladimir Lenin, he prevailed over Leon Trotsky in a power struggle during the 1920s. In the 1930s Stalin eliminated effective political opposition both within the Party and among the population (see Gulag) and consolidated his authority with the Great Purge, a period of widespread arrests and executions which reached its peak in 1937, remaining in power through World War II and until his death...Trotsky's August 1940 assassination in Mexico, where he had lived in exile since 1936, eliminated the last of Stalin's opponents among the former Party leadership. Only three members of the "Old Bolsheviks" (Lenin's Politburo) now remained in Politburo — Stalin himself, "the all-Union Chieftain" Mikhail Kalinin, and Chairman of Sovnarkom Vyacheslav Molotov. The repression of so many formerly high-ranking revolutionaries and party members led Leon Trotsky to claim that a "river of blood" separated Stalin's regime from that of Lenin. However, it has been argued that Stalin only continued the political repressions that had started under Lenin's regime, such as labor camps and express executions of political opponents.)

*18.Newspeak
...Even in the early decades of the twentieth century, telescoped words and phrases had been one of the characteristic features of political language; and it had been noticed that the tendency to use abbreviations of this kind was most marked in totalitarian countries and totalitarian organizations. Examples were such words as Nazi, Gestapo, Comintern, Inprecorr, Agitprop. In the beginning the practice had been adopted as it were instinctively, but in Newspeak it was used with a conscious purpose. It was perceived that in thus abbreviating a name one narrowed and subtly altered its meaning, by cutting out most of the associations that would otherwise cling to it. The words Communist International, for instance, call up a composite picture of universal human brotherhood, red flags, barricades, Karl Marx, and the Paris Commune. The word Comintern, on the other hand, suggests merely a tightly-knit organization and a well-defined body of doctrine. It refers to something almost as easily recognized, and as limited in purpose, as a chair or a table. Comintern is a word that can be uttered almost without taking thought, whereas Communist International is a phrase over which one is obliged to linger at least momentarily...

ANIMAL FARM PIGS & DOGS and HOMAGE TO CATALONIA and ORWELL'S PUBLISHING PROBLEMS

Jackie Jura
~ an independent researcher monitoring local, national and international events ~

email: orwelltoday@gmail.com
HOME PAGE
website: www.orwelltoday.com

Flash
20th May 2011, 02:41
Ok, the Fabian Society was funded by a group of intellectuals, amongst them the daughter of Karl Marx. They proposed an egalitarian society that would lead to autoritarian society.

H.G. Wells, one of the founder of the Fabian Society and also the writer of The invisible man, the time machine (I only have the title in French) L’Homme invisible, La Machine à remonter le temps ou encore La Guerre des mondes, The war of the worlds , his convictions written in Open Conspiracy (1928) proposed a classless world government controling everything, promoting the drastic reduction of the world population through eugenism, a new human community he would say.

Wells presented his theories in 1914 in a little known book with a title corresponding to the Maçonic formulae "Ordo Ab chao" or the Liberating Destruction (order through chaos in Latin). En fait, dès le début, H.G. Wells a présenté ses théories dans un livre méconnu dont le titre correspond exactement à la formule maçonnique «Ordo ab chao» : La Destruction libératrice. this is the story of a world war leading to the creation of a unique world state divided in 10 blocs. this is were is found for the first time the term New World Order. He published another bood in 1940 titles The New World Order.


Well :smokin:(smoking gun), H.G. Wells was the mentor of G. Or well in the Fabian Society, in which Orwell (Blair) had been a member. Orwell (Blair) had therefore direct access to the ideology of marxism, socialism, and the New World Order, in which everything is controlled.

How Am I doing Watson?

Lord Sidious
20th May 2011, 02:53
Ok, the Fabian Society was funded by a group of intellectuals, amongst them the daughter of Karl Marx. They proposed an egalitarian society that would lead to autoritarian society.

H.G. Wells, one of the founder of the Fabian Society and also the writer of The invisible man, the time machine (I only have the title in French) L’Homme invisible, La Machine à remonter le temps ou encore La Guerre des mondes, The war of the worlds , his convictions written in Open Conspiracy (1928) proposed a classless world government controling everything, promoting the drastic reduction of the world population through eugenism, a new human community he would say.

Wells presented his theories in 1914 in a little known book with a title corresponding to the Maçonic formulae "Ordo Ab chao" or the Liberating Destruction (order through chaos in Latin). En fait, dès le début, H.G. Wells a présenté ses théories dans un livre méconnu dont le titre correspond exactement à la formule maçonnique «Ordo ab chao» : La Destruction libératrice. this is the story of a world war leading to the creation of a unique world state divided in 10 blocs. this is were is found for the first time the term New World Order. He published another bood in 1940 titles The New World Order.


Well :smokin:(smoking gun), H.G. Wells was the mentor of G. Or well in the Fabian Society, in which Orwell (Blair) had been a member. Orwell (Blair) had therefore direct access to the ideology of marxism, socialism, and the New World Order, in which everything is controlled.

How Am I doing Watson?

And now we see why George Orwell/Eric Blair could write 1984 and it is so accurate.
He knew the deal.
And now you avalonuggets do too.
Good work Flash.

Flash
20th May 2011, 02:59
I found quite a lot more on the Fabian Society though, in French, which I believe is very important for conspiracy theories.

The author of the article is
© Pierre de Villemarest – Membre de l’Amicale des anciens des Services spéciaux de la Défense nationale (ASSDN) avec Max Saint John.
27 mars 2007

It seems not far from a French wistle blower! From the special services of the French National Defense (equivalent to the American Seals I think, French correct me if I am wrong) (or disinfo, but it does not look nor sound like it - the thinking and analysis is too deep)

I am ready to work for Jessee Ventura! LOL

Positive Vibe Merchant
20th May 2011, 04:15
Great work Flash!

PVM

mondaze
20th May 2011, 04:51
just about arriving at the nexus point. flash . thanks for your efforts.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmrHTdXgK4

i have been aware of something like this for 20 years, i read a very long essay either in The Observer or Guardian which laid it all out in plain view, but without a date it would be impossible to retrieve without a mind meld. It laid out a plan which mirrored the military position in 1984. The tenet being that the west, russia, and china would constantly be in states of flux, alliances made and broken, all working to a common plan.

TWINCANS
20th May 2011, 05:01
The 1984 Mystery? Elementary my dear, thanks to you Flash!
Excellently done.

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 05:53
Crowley was connected to many other Secret Society groups including the Brotherhood of Saturn and the Order of the Golden Dawn.- James Bond writer Ian Fleming, who was also a naval officer and society member, was close friends with Aleister Crowley. Many famous writers and occultist of the Golden Dawn from this time and connection were Aldous Huxley, George Orwell and others.

The Fabians were working towards a new world, by indoctrinating young scholars who would eventually rise to power in various policy-making positions throughout the world; by infiltrating educational institutions, government agencies, and political parties. Their strategy was called the "doctrine of inevitability of gradualism," which meant that their goals would be gradually achieved. So gradual, that nobody would notice, or "without breach of continuity or abrupt change of the entire social issue." The secret was evolution, not revolution, or what Webb called "permeation." Shaw (whose mistress, Florence Farr, was a witch in the Order of the Golden Dawn), revealed that their goal was to be achieved by "stealth, intrigue, subversion, and the deception of never calling socialism by its right name." -- The Fabian Society, from "Final Warning: A History of the New World Order," by David Allen Rivera


George Orwell was introduced to the Fabian Society by his French teacher and lifelong friend Aldous Huxley. However, he later became disenchanted with the Fabian Society and it is now thought his book 1984 (a title chosen to mark the 100th anniversary of the Fabians) was really a satirical polemic describing the kind of world he believed the Fabians would achieve. The Fabian Society acquired and sealed the archives of Orwell when his second wife Sonia died some years ago. According to representatives of the publishing company Harper Collins, the Fabians will be in control of the "1984" copyright and name through the year 2025, and they have done their best to block unauthorized investigative research about Orwell's anti-socialist works. Even rights to Orwell's estate fell under control of the Fabian Society.

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 06:27
Mark Dice's new book Big Brother: The Orwellian Nightmare Come True

BIG BROTHER IS UPON US


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVA1vYGQ5fQ

Feren
20th May 2011, 06:52
Has anyone started a thread about the Frankfurt School? I would like to do it if no one else is working on it.
Just let me know.
By the way, Lord Sidious (et al.), I appreciate what you are doing.

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 06:52
George Orwell and Tavistock

"Under this lies a fact never mentioned aloud, but tacitly understood and acted upon: namely, that the conditions of life in all three super-states are very much the same. In Oceania the prevailing philosophy is called Ingsoc, in Eurasia it is called Neo-Bolshevism, and in Eastasia it is called by a Chinese name usually translated as Death-Worship, but perhaps better rendered as Obliteration of the Self." George Orwell, 1984

"The significance of George Orwell's famous novel Nineteen-Eighty-Four is that its writing was inspired by a commitment to further a world order which existed among top, Rockefeller family-dominated Anglo-American political intelligence agencies by the late 1940s. Like numerous well-known top trade-union officials and celebrated social-democratic political and "cultural" figures, Orwell was an intelligence operative for the Anglo-American CIA-SIS services. This employment brought him into privileged association with other operatives directly connected with the London Tavistock Institute.

Several of these latter persons known to have served with Orwell were directly involved in developing key fascist sociological and psychological schemes, which had already been adopted off the Tavistock drawing boards by the late 1940s. His novel directly reflects such insider's information." from Fascism's Rape of the Mind

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 08:09
More than an international institution, Tavistock became a nonlocal community of practice -- a dark "invisible college," the Castaglia of the cryptocracy. Tavistock's grandmother is the drug empire of the British East India Company and Theosophical esoterics. Its grandfather is "The Open Conspiracy" of Utopian H.G. Wells, Bertrand Russell, Cecil Rhodes and Fabian socialists. The Society for Psychical Research (SPR) helped create the Fabian Society.


Sometime in 1946, leading British imperialist strategists founded the Tavistock Institute for Human Relations. It is located in London, and it is the chief think tank of the British Empire. The following is a quote from the Tavistock Institute’s official web site.

“The objectives of the Institute were to study human relations in conditions of wellbeing, conflict or breakdown, in the family, the community, the work group and the larger organization, and to promote the health and effectiveness of individuals and organizations. Since that time, the Tavistock Institute has evolved into an organization that does research, consultancy, evaluation and professional development work in support of change and learning.”

On December 12, 1946, John d. Rockefeller jr. agreed to donate $8,500,000 to the United Nations to purchase the site of their headquarters building in New York.

On June 18, 1948, the CIA created the Covert Operations Department by authority of National Security Directive (NSC) 10/2. Frank Wisner was its first director. He launched Operation Mockingbird, the program to infiltrate and take over many foreign and all major American media outlets by putting all key personnel on the CIA payroll. Operation Mockingbird was so successful that CIA Director William Colby bragged that:

‘The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any major significance in the major media’

This quote was substantiated by reporter Carl Bernstein in the 1970s. Wisner “committed suicide” on October 29, 1965 at the family farm in Galena, Maryland. He supposedly put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

Foreign Affairs Magazine (CFR Mouthpiece) January/February 1996

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19960101fareviewessay4181/david-fromkin/daring-amateurism-the-cia-s-social-history.html 

Sometime in 1949 The British establishment published a novel by the Englishman Eric Blair. The novel was named “1984,” and it described a futuristic, high-tech dictatorship. This dictatorship had several prominent features.

1: The citizens were not really citizens with rights, but slaves of the all-powerful state.
2: These state’s secret police constantly spied on the citizen/slaves.
3: The state constantly bombarded these citizen/slaves with propaganda.
4: History was constantly re-written and falsified to suit the current policy of the state.
5: There was no real opposition to the state. However, the state did set up and maintain false opposition rebel groups to lure into the open and entrap rebellious citizen/slaves.
6: The dictatorship is constantly and perpetually at war with the other two remaining global empires in order to justify its harsh policies.

The author of this novel had an interesting background. His family was not prominent or wealthy, but modestly middle class. The young Blair won a scholarship to Eton, which is an exclusive English high school. He graduated, but failed to win a scholarship to any of the exclusive universities like Cambridge or Oxford. Instead of attending some lesser college, the young Blair became a policeman with the Indian Imperial Police. The Indian Imperial so-called police were in fact not policemen, but hired enforcers employed by the private company that was granted a franchise by the Crown to loot the wealth of India and terrorize its people into submission. The Indian Imperial Police were the equivalent of the modern day corporations like DynCorp or Executive Outcomes. After his mercenary career of about 5 years, Mr. Blair became a communist revolutionary, although he would probably reject that description of himself. He traveled to Spain and joined the militia of the Partido Obero de Unification de Marxista political party. Mr. Blair’s motives for writing his novel are disputed, as are the reasons for the British establishment authorizing its publication. Whatever the truth about Mr. Blair or his establishment publishers, his novel was the most detailed outline of the plans of the NWO which had appeared up to that time. Mr. Blair had it published under the pen name of George Orwell.

Tavistock: Mass Brainwashing Institute

Tavistock, a progressive society, was founded in London in 19 . It always had secret ties to British Freemasonry. Its aims include social control, information control; and control of the hidden information environment. Practically, his means it has control mechanisms in academia, multimedia, intelligence, and medicine but especially pharmaceuticals.

Three elements combine to make the Institute unusual, if not unique: it has the independence of being entirely self-financing, with no subsidies from the government or other sources; the action research orientation places it between, but not in, the worlds of academia and consultancy; and its range of disciplines include anthropology, economics, organizational behavior, political science, psychoanalysis, psychology and sociology.

We assume large corporations have economic objectives. But we don't expect them to have a secret social and occult agenda as well. For example, we don't expect them to engineer arrested development and family breakdown. We don't expect them to use pop culture to foster alienation and dysfunction. But evidence suggests Tavistock and its sister organizations do exactly that.
Central bankers based in the City of London control the cartels that dominate the world. They finagled the right to print money based on our credit and quite naturally used this advantage to buy everything worth having. This might be tolerable if limitless wealth was all they wanted. But they also want limitless power: not just one-world dictatorship but total control over our minds and souls. Popular culture is engineered to brainwash each of us from cradle to grave. Trends and megatrends are manufactured, engineered by corporations.
Society evolves slowly toward "social efficiency" all by itself; society under stress, however, evolves much faster! Thus the deliberate creation of crisis is an important tool of evolutionary socialists. Does that help you understand the global drama a little better, or well-publicized doomsday scenarios?


The Occult Revival
Theosophical studies cover the origin and development of the cosmos and human development in all the planes of being from its beginning to its end.  It is a philosophy of process, transformation, and evolution toward an extraordinary human potential.  Out of this Utopian and scientific socialism came Theosophy, British” guild" socialism, the Fabian Society, Bertrand Russell, H. G. Wells, Tavistock and iconoclast Aleister Crowley.
Aleister Crowley is an infamous occultist.  Occultism has served as "an alternative account of the world, available to people dissatisfied with the orthodox view of things, scientifically and politically, since the late 18th century.  Older than Theosophy with roots in kabbalah, Hermetics, and pantheism, Magick was a practical application of causing change to conform with will using similar principles.  They both embrace the Hermetic Axiom: “As Above; So Below,” which reflects the identity of man as a microcosm.


Alice Bailey helped form the Lucis Trust, formerly LUCIFER PUBLISHING COMPANY, founded in 1922, [at the same time, I might add, that TAVISTOCK, the NWO FINISHING SCHOOL was being established in merry old England] where the Lucis Press is a publishing arm for the Uniteed Nations; incidentally, TAVISTOCK was, indeed, the place where George Orwell learned all the things he put in his two classic books, ANIMAL FARM & "1984"


GO TO THIS LINK AND SEE – PROUDLY DISPLAYED -
http://www.tavinstitute.org/about/our_history.php

THE TAVISTOCK INSTITUTE – OUR HISTORY

PUBLICATION OF GEORGE ORWELL's – 1984

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 09:52
chart of tavistock

7561

Sorry, I do not know how to make it bigger. You may have to copy and paste into your own photos and enlarge. If anyone knows how to upload bigger photos, please let me know. THank you

charlesfrith
20th May 2011, 09:56
I said it was the Fabian Society waaaay back.

loveandgratitude
20th May 2011, 09:58
Fabian = Tavistock

Lord Sidious
20th May 2011, 15:46
Excellent work there Loveandgratitude and thanks for bringing in Tavistock.
We can follow that branch too and a good one to follow is Tavistock and Martin Bryant.

Carmody
20th May 2011, 16:14
a side note:

One of the reasons you can find this stuff and figure it out is due to the the invention of the typeset press. Books, hardcopy specifically, is your friend.

This article here, is "documenting* the beginning of the end of the record of history." (*more like vaporously illustrating the very core of ignorance -of what is coming)

The ugly side of the coin of the internet and non-hardcopy communication is the capacity ...to eventually (reach the point of)... change historical record ----with the flip of a switch.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1388779/The-end-paperback-Kindle-ebook-sales-exceed-print-sales-time-ever.html

The internet spreads information beautifully, yes, but there is also downside aspect.

The good thing is that the internet puts communication first, due to it's ephemeral qualities of being a relatively non-hardcopy system of communication.

Lord Sidious
20th May 2011, 16:40
Excellent points there Carmody.

bearcow
20th May 2011, 17:05
i doubt these numbers amazon released are truly accurate, to be honest. The majority of books sold on amazon are actually sold to customers by independent booksellers who use amazon's site as a middle man. i doubt they took these sales into account when releasing their figures, as technically they are sold by a third party. I think amazon is just trying to create as much pr for the kindle as possible. Same thing goes for the mp3 downloads they offer instead of selling actual cd's.

Carmody
20th May 2011, 17:17
I believe so as well. It is just that the idea of removing hardcopy form the hands of the common man, as an agenda, I feel that there is an undercurrent of that as a very powerful point (indicator) toward Orwellian systems of influence and control. Remember the main character's job, in "1984".

Amenjo
20th May 2011, 18:43
Found this very interesting site that back engineers Starwars. It goes through the literal influences of the book from Flash Gordon through Akira Kurosaw, Tolkien to influences from Buddhism.

It quite a ride, but it is a well researched site. Didn't know where to post it but thought here would be relevant place.
It also mentions George Lucas' Near death experience and how it changed his life completely.

http://moongadget.com/origins/index.html

Hope you enjoy,

Love and Truth,

Amenjo

Playdo of Ataraxas
22nd May 2011, 23:54
Very intriguing and enlightening thread, Lord Sidious, and everyone who has posted! I have enjoyed following and learning! Here's a thought form my own humble, uneducated opinion: if Blair's view of the future, which was set forth in his book "1984", was ultimately a protocol designed by a group, as discussed in this thread, then it is probable that the events therein were scheduled to be immanent by 1984. If so, the fact that world domination has not been entirely and completely realized, that the plan has not been fully actualized and implemented, and it is now 2011, may mean that other positive elements have been actively manifesting an opposing reality to TPTB, i.e., that there is and has always been a hidden variable that TPTB have chosen not to acknowledge; a variable they can in no way control. Thus, to use Discordian terms, the eschaton will not be immanentized. What should have been accomplished in 1984 hasn't been accomplished, and now its months away form 2012, the proverbial nut-check! Time's up, and its time to start feeling the love!!!

Carmody
23rd May 2011, 00:36
My vague understanding of the choice of the title of '1984, was that it was a 'flip' or 'mirror' of the year of publication of the book. A literal expression of the double speak in the novel itself. It was not about dates or such.

I read '1984', 'The space Merchants', 'Brave New World' and other titles in early high school English class. Back when teachers tried to open their students up. I had already read all three, though.

GCS1103
23rd May 2011, 02:26
Great thread, Lord Sidious. I have never given much thought to George Orwell (other than reading one of his books in school) and now I have spent a fair amount of time researching him, thanks to you. I am waiting for you to start a thread on the Bilderberg Group. I have lots to say about them.......

TWINCANS
23rd May 2011, 04:02
a side note:

One of the reasons you can find this stuff and figure it out is due to the the invention of the typeset press. Books, hardcopy specifically, is your friend.

This article here, is "documenting* the beginning of the end of the record of history." (*more like vaporously illustrating the very core of ignorance -of what is coming)

The ugly side of the coin of the internet and non-hardcopy communication is the capacity ...to eventually (reach the point of)... change historical record ----with the flip of a switch.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1388779/The-end-paperback-Kindle-ebook-sales-exceed-print-sales-time-ever.html

The internet spreads information beautifully, yes, but there is also downside aspect.

The good thing is that the internet puts communication first, due to it's ephemeral qualities of being a relatively non-hardcopy system of communication.


Totally agree with you on this one. On another thread I indicated that my family is already busily buying books by the carload. (I don't know where we will keep them all) The issue we see is that the seminal work on a subject is both deep and wide, encompassing the big-bang components of the thought. That material will not be repeated and any later inquirer will not be able to delve the initial work without the book remaining on the shelf to find. How do you know where to find something if you don't know it exists? The internet is like the 'Coles notes' of an idea. It's dumbing down the populace. Wonder who stands to benefit from that?

Fred Steeves
23rd May 2011, 14:33
Maybe a wee bit off topic here, but when reading Animal Farm, Pink Floyd's 1977 album Animals struck me square between the eyes. Besides the title not being a coincidence, those guys had access to some pretty deep s**t at a time when David Icke was still a silly ass t.v. guy. They even have their thoughts(which I agree with) on how matters will wind up. Talk about being ahead of your time. I don't know whether Roger Waters is just that smart and observant, or if maybe he attended a Jordan Maxwell talk as a young man.

Cheers,
Fred S.

Carmody
24th May 2011, 00:33
Roger Waters really is that smart... and he has been on a mission of this observed nature (the meanings behind Pink Floyd lyrics and music) since day one.

Playdo of Ataraxas
24th May 2011, 01:48
Roger Waters really is that smart... and he has been on a mission of this observed nature (the meanings behind Pink Floyd lyrics and music) since day one.

I can personally attest to that statement, Fred S. and Carmody. This evens carries great synchronicity: I am currently wearing as I write this statement a Roger Waters concert T-shirt that my father bought me after seeing him play in Mumbai, India, in 2007! I have thoroughly and seriously studied with pleasure and literary intent the whole of Waters' work. The most pertinent would be his solo album, "Amused to Death", completed with a host of musicians, including Jeff Beck. Anyhow, the song, "The Bravery of Being Out of Range", among others, really seems to hit the nail on the head. Besides that album and the referred to "Animals", I see the song "Have a Cigar" from the album "Wish You Were Here" an obvious reference to Tavistock's recruitment of musicians into the industry.

Carmody
24th May 2011, 02:07
I have, of course, 'amused to death'--on vinyl. I wonder what Orwell would be listening to if he were around today. (Carmody feebly attempting in a very obvious way to not get too far off track)

PurpleLama
6th October 2011, 22:25
I saw this posted in another thread and thought it belonged here. Hopefull it wasn't put here to begin with.

Bump.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13715/13715-h/13715-h.htm

Guest
7th October 2011, 05:07
I saw this posted in another thread and thought it belonged here. Hopefull it wasn't put here to begin with.

Bump.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13715/13715-h/13715-h.htm

No, noone else posted that link on here -I just read through the entire thread. Thank you PurpleLama

and I bump :bump: also...

Nora

we are all related

Curt
7th October 2011, 11:32
There is enough material here to chew on for an entire lifetime. Where to begin..........bump.........

PurpleLama
7th October 2011, 12:22
Synchronicity has been off the hook here lately. Here is the thread where the link to the ebook came from. Looking at the dream, and what came of it, it is kind of chilling.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32014-Told-In-A-Dream--&p=326535&viewfull=1#post326535

Guest
7th October 2011, 22:01
Hi,

I don't know if anyone created a thread on the Frankfurt Institute but here are a couple of links.

www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html

www.marxist.org/subject/frankfurt-school/

Some basis here: Control through socialization ie media, radio, herd mentality -hegelian dialectic. include desensitization in there of the soul and spirit and later on control through doping society..... and masses are unaware -happy with the status quo -and through staging terrorist or economic downfalls....etc create control of the masses through their own resistances.....etc

Also look at Aristotle, Plato and Socrates I believe Homer and the Iliad.

Well this is some of it

Have a good day

and thank you for the thread Lord Sid and for everyone who contributed so much good information and for their effort and time.

Nora

we are all related

Corncrake
9th February 2013, 08:09
For those who don't want to read the whole thread there is quite a good summary of some of the points covered here by journalist David Aaronovitch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21337504