View Full Version : 26. Timelines, Free Will and Karma.
Timelines, Free will and Karma.
Let us say that timelines do exist, that there are parallel realities.
And that one can choose a different reality.
I have no experience (or memory) of this, so I'm just
wanting to some clarification on the practicalities.
How can one choose a timeline?
Which one?
I do not know or understand all the possibilities and alternatives?
I am told and believe advanced practitioners can choose their next
rebirth, but us ordinary practitioners are driven by karma.
Karma meaning the mind imprinted with fixed ideas which control our reactions,
we still believe everything around us is real, though in theory we know it is not.
In the moments before reincarnation, because of our past reactions
we can easily mistake a nice looking place
for a dung heap, and a strife-ridden place as beautiful.
Which bring us to free will. Until we are free from the power of our habitual
thoughts and emotions we are not free. We are biased and not at all free in will.
We have the potential for free will, to transcend karma and be able to choose.
But here comes another point, our intention. Is the action for ours or others benefit?
Yesterday we looked at enemies as friends.
We should take a look at friends!
Friends can really sharpen you up. Why? Because they agree too readily. What is agreed to, readily tends to rounded off at the corners of perception. Friends can come and go, wishing it to be otherwise....is not wise.
A so-called enemy glaringly show you your faults...wow!
So-called friends can make us feel nice...oh!?
Being nice, is nice, it's wonderful. We put our hands together, pray together chant together, but it can become ritualistic. The form can take over the meaning, believe me this happens!
Do not leave your brains on the door step.
Derren Brown the illusionist, shows how easily we can be unconsciously manipulated, we actually like it, but it is insane.
Do not leave your brains on the door step.
Whatever you think, there is always a higher view. Concepts cannot by fought with high scholarly concepts. To find out what works for you, you have to do some digging. If one just says, “I know what works for me”. Me reply is, “How big is your picture?”
Keep sharp
pie'n'al
Lord Sidious
14th May 2011, 11:15
I would have thought that changing the way things are in the timeline you were in if not THE test, was at least a huge part of it.
Attempting to get out of that by taking yourself to another one would surely be selfish and an instant fail?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
I would have thought that changing the way things are in the timeline you were in if not THE test, was at least a huge part of it.
Attempting to get out of that by taking yourself to another one would surely be selfish and an instant fail?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
Young man, I totally agree!!!
Lot of interesting posts in Omni's thread regarding timelines.
Why not "jump" on over there to see for yourselves? :bolt:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20417-Timelines-what-are-your-views-A-focus-Inelia-s-claim-of-timelines....
9eagle9
14th May 2011, 11:34
Consider this.
Would the timeline of someone who has made an effort to free themselves from the habits of thoughts already have a different preexisting timeline than those who have have not imposed will to power?
I look out of my reality and see a place out there where people are deaf to what animals say, die of cancer and other ailments . No expression of will. I find that bizarre and unnatural. That one cannot hear an animal speak and die of diseases that to my perception are as unnecessary, artificial, and weird as dying from bubble gum exposure. When I view these conditions I have a whole new meaning given to the word 'alien'. That's not my reality (or timeline?) Does it mean I'm WRONG? I didn't make a choice per say, not a conscious one to change a reality or timeline, but consciously chose to remove conditions from my self that effected my quality of life. My reality would seem to be a natural occurring expression of removing those conditions. I expected it no more than I expected the sun to rise in the west.
Consider this.
Would the timeline of someone who has made an effort to free themselves from the habits of thoughts already have a different preexisting timeline than those who have have not imposed will to power?
I look out of my reality and see a place out there where people are deaf to what animals say, die of cancer and other ailments . No expression of will. I find that bizarre and unnatural. That one cannot hear an animal speak and die of diseases that to my perception are as unnecessary, artificial, and weird as dying from bubble gum exposure. When I view these conditions I have a whole new meaning given to the word 'alien'. That's not my reality (or timeline?) Does it mean I'm WRONG? I didn't make a choice per say, not a conscious one to change a reality or timeline, but consciously chose to remove conditions from my self that effected my quality of life. My reality would seem to be a natural occurring expression of removing those conditions. I expected it no more than I expected the sun to rise in the west.
Dear 9eagle9,
Sounds right.
I look at my brother and watch his theme-of-life (timeline?) and wonder, if I had not turned to the spiritual aspect of life would my life be the same as his. The answer is YES! My family spent all their time arguing.
It's such a relief to have changed. However, we no longer talk. As the karma peels away, a refinement seems to take place. We become more sensitive, this can put us out of kilter with the world around us.
That's where compassion comes in... the strong serve the weak! Therefore, I suppose, the meek shall inherit the Earth. Meek doesn't mean weak!!!
Actually, love hurts. The more the joy the more the sadness.
All the very best
pie'n'eal
Mad Hatter
14th May 2011, 12:11
Once again Mad Hatter slips on his contrarian hat...
In reference to Karma and as such what is oft termed the great Karmic Wheel of life...
Does not a wheel go round in circles?
What sort of intelligence is it that chooses to do just that?
cheers
Once again Mad Hatter slips on his contrarian hat...
In reference to Karma and as such what is oft termed the great Karmic Wheel of life...
Does not a wheel go round in circles?
What sort of intelligence is it that chooses to do just that?
cheers
Dear Mad Hatter,
Run of the mill.....ignorance!
I believe that we have a natural course to follow in life, something like a highway. But beyond this path exist other paths, such as short-cuts, u-turns and stops. Things do happen, which are out of our control, but we always have a choice in how we respond to them.
9eagle9
14th May 2011, 12:53
Depends on how you view karma. Karma in it's orignal whole form and functional meaning which lends great influence on one's life or Karma in the Westernized New Agey sense that is all over the board, up to personal opinion and has no functional value whatsoever other than it seems to create more victims and martyrs?
The original concept of Karma was making the conscious choice to remove that which blocked will from converting to power. The original sutra spoke of emptying the soul. Westerners don't like the idea of walking around with an empty soul , so the original functional if somewhat polemically expressed precept was discarded for one that is basically created upon one's personal whim.
Once again Mad Hatter slips on his contrarian hat...
In reference to Karma and as such what is oft termed the great Karmic Wheel of life...
Does not a wheel go round in circles?
What sort of intelligence is it that chooses to do just that?
cheers
Dear Mad Hatter,
Run of the mill.....ignorance!
Couldn't have put it better!
Kind regards
Pie'n'Eal
Mad Hatter
14th May 2011, 14:21
Hi pie'n'eal,
If by that you are implying that my question stems from...
Run of the mill.....ignorance! then I say touche :p and I look forward to being enlightened further...
If what I put forward was viewed more from the concept of if I've made some form of prior agreement to come and play in this plane, with full knowledge of the Karmic process and it's relative downside with respect to collecting Karmic debt then the percieved potential payoff for undertaking such a task must have exceeded the percieved risk otherwise I'd have to be either ignorant or crazy to accept the terms and conditions, no?
So am I crazy / ignorant for choosing to be here? Was I deceived from a yet higher level when signing up for this tour of duty? Or is it I am confident of success in the mission?
Simply food for thought... ;)
The original sutra spoke of emptying the soul. Westerners don't like the idea of walking around with an empty soul
I admit I have not had the pleasure of reading the original sutra but that analogy seems to imply getting the ego under control to remove the illusion and if that interpretation is correct there would appear to be some westerners attempting to do that, despite the new age translations... Of course I could be way off base as most days I have trouble finding the ballpark, thus always appreciate being pointed in the right direction.
cheers
Once again Mad Hatter slips on his contrarian hat...
Would that be a "one" or "zero"??? :nerd:
Enjoy it while you can ... gets a lot more complex when you hit "hexadecimal" :haha:
:sorry:
Every once in awhile I simply cannot control myself :ballchain:
Every time I see your (rockin) avatar I :bolt: back to my computer programming days :)
All better now ... back to topic :offtopic:
9eagle9
14th May 2011, 14:32
Some westerners are attempting to belay the ego by direct means. And most are attempting to belay the ego in ways that will cause it to expand.
We had a consciousness shift with the introduction of duality, and again when imposing dualistic religion on us. This caused an overgrowth of ego.
We're doing it again. Consciousness shifting or expansion isn't quite as beneficial as some would believe.
Look at the word Legion. What does it mean.
Look at the word RE-Legion.
and?
Some westerners are attempting to belay the ego by direct means. And most are attempting to belay the ego in ways that will cause it to expand.
We had a consciousness shift with the introduction of duality, and again when imposing dualistic religion on us. This caused an overgrowth of ego.
We're doing it again. Consciousness shifting or expansion isn't quite as beneficial as some would believe.
Look at the word Legion. What does it mean.
Look at the word RE-Legion.
and?
Ohhh ... that was a good one.
My ego tried desperately to put it's hand over my eyes.
Hmmmm.
the quickening is upon us
:rain: :flame: :rain: :flame:...
choices are:
:behindsofa:
:painkiler:
:ranger:
there are more choices, as always,
plus the "sit and meditate"
but only 7 icons allowed...
Avalon has to expand it's territory...
ulli putting on her Herr Hitler hat...
Once again Mad Hatter slips on his contrarian hat...
In reference to Karma and as such what is oft termed the great Karmic Wheel of life...
Does not a wheel go round in circles?
What sort of intelligence is it that chooses to do just that?
cheers
the intelligence that misses the point...
instead of going cosmic with one single step
it's incarnation after incarnation, after incarnation
and when you finally get there, they tell you
you have to come back ONE MORE TIME...
AS A MAN!!!!
as ONLY males can be freed from the 'round and 'round....
Mad Hatter: you have a chance, at least.
ulli does not!!
ulli wonders what those Tibetans have to say about sex change transexuals?
9eagle9
14th May 2011, 15:09
Choices may have very well gotten us in the confusion we're in now.
Say that we have oh randomly 12 conditions or tools of formation that work together to create (a timeline for instance).
Tools are used for creation with another tool, or singularly for maintenance.
So an herbalist will demonstrate this by using one herb as a companion to another. The act of doing this reflects the process of creating a unified field. The two plants are working in unity with the herbalist, then with the patient . I'll stop there but with the addition of the remaining tools you have a whole and complete process of creation.
With one tool you are just maintaining pre existing conditions. With a saw and a screwdriver you can put boards together to form a doghouse. You can maintain what holds the dog house together with a screwdriver but you can't create the doghouse with JUST a screwdriver.
When are tools were divided from each other folks seized on them and created a separate schism around them to further keep the tools from each other. We acknowledge and venerate the SAW and deny the existence of the screwdriver.
Then because the SAW isn't able to create on its own more dogma is added to it to prop up it's failing. The SAW will become whole again in 2010. Someone decided by verbally changing the nature and conditions of the tools they'd work again. This is the creation of delusion (illusion). Tools in their whole form functionality is creation of reality.
norman
14th May 2011, 15:10
I would have thought that changing the way things are in the timeline you were in if not THE test, was at least a huge part of it.
Attempting to get out of that by taking yourself to another one would surely be selfish and an instant fail?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
You surpised me with this post Lord of the Sith. I must not have been paying attention to enough of your posts in the past.
You just said exactly what's on my mind about this subject.
If it's the wrong end of the stick, we're both on it.
Mad Hatter
14th May 2011, 15:13
Well ulli this mere male is pretty sure source / god / ? is a girl with a really really wicked sense of humour... so I wouldn't fret too much.
Calz_ I owe you one laptop full of coffee... delivered in Octal of course...:pound:
9eagle9: have you seen this eagle house timeline?
if you haven't seen this before:
here is a good high light:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13817652/highlight/165592
the livestream is here, babies are much bigger now,
and one pooped onto the lense, I think...
right now no sign of mummy eagle...nor daddy...
babies getting big and losing their fluff feathers:
http://www.ustream.tv/decoraheagles
Hi pie'n'eal,
If by that you are implying that my question stems from...
Run of the mill.....ignorance! then I say touche :p and I look forward to being enlightened further...
If what I put forward was viewed more from the concept of if I've made some form of prior agreement to come and play in this plane, with full knowledge of the Karmic process and it's relative downside with respect to collecting Karmic debt then the percieved potential payoff for undertaking such a task must have exceeded the percieved risk otherwise I'd have to be either ignorant or crazy to accept the terms and conditions, no?
So am I crazy / ignorant for choosing to be here? Was I deceived from a yet higher level when signing up for this tour of duty? Or is it I am confident of success in the mission?
Simply food for thought... ;)
The original sutra spoke of emptying the soul. Westerners don't like the idea of walking around with an empty soul
I admit I have not had the pleasure of reading the original sutra but that analogy seems to imply getting the ego under control to remove the illusion and if that interpretation is correct there would appear to be some westerners attempting to do that, despite the new age translations... Of course I could be way off base as most days I have trouble finding the ballpark, thus always appreciate being pointed in the right direction.
cheers
My Dearest Mad Hatter,
You are not ignorant at all. I meant the wheel of life is continued by ignorance, we are all caught up in it. You are perfectly pure. However you like me, carry some old ideas around. As you so rightly say, it is a process, and YOU are facing the right way. I feel the situation we find ourselves in will speed the whole thing up.
There is sort of craziness about it all....divine craziness!!
Kind regards
pie'n'eal
Carmody
14th May 2011, 19:39
One might also change their timeline through changing the outlook and existence parameters of the self. to not be conscious of such things. To have it be an automatic function.
The example of that is the change of the location of the USS Eldridge ship from the dock where the Philadelphia experiment was taking place, to the dock where it was most familiar with (in it's recent past) and had a sort of similar and complimentary vibration to and with. (this, during the moments of the experiment. as documented)
Snowbird
14th May 2011, 19:56
I would have thought that changing the way things are in the timeline you were in if not THE test, was at least a huge part of it.
Attempting to get out of that by taking yourself to another one would surely be selfish and an instant fail?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
I just recently successfully altered a timeline in my life. I accomplished this by purposely raising my frequency. Essentially, I reside in a different density although I am still living the same life in the same surroundings. It appears as though there is a very thin veil between the density that was and the density that is.
I'm not on this Earth to be tested. I am here to experience and to learn and for various other reasons, but on occasion there does exist a test that I must master.
9eagle9
15th May 2011, 00:57
No I had not but THANK YOu for sharing that, too awesomely majestic for words...
and the little fuzzlies......hard to believe something that small and fuzzy will become a bird of prey.
9eagle9: have you seen this eagle house timeline?
if you haven't seen this before:
here is a good high light:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13817652/highlight/165592
the livestream is here, babies are much bigger now,
and one pooped onto the lense, I think...
right now no sign of mummy eagle...nor daddy...
babies getting big and losing their fluff feathers:
http://www.ustream.tv/decoraheagles
Carmody
15th May 2011, 01:19
You ask the Zen master "What does Zen Mean?"
And the Zen master says back to you, "What does baffled mean?"
And ....the light either goes on, or it does not.
If not, enter round two.
Choices may have very well gotten us in the confusion we're in now.
Say that we have oh randomly 12 conditions or tools of formation that work together to create (a timeline for instance).
Tools are used for creation with another tool, or singularly for maintenance.
So an herbalist will demonstrate this by using one herb as a companion to another. The act of doing this reflects the process of creating a unified field. The two plants are working in unity with the herbalist, then with the patient . I'll stop there but with the addition of the remaining tools you have a whole and complete process of creation.
With one tool you are just maintaining pre existing conditions. With a saw and a screwdriver you can put boards together to form a doghouse. You can maintain what holds the dog house together with a screwdriver but you can't create the doghouse with JUST a screwdriver.
When are tools were divided from each other folks seized on them and created a separate schism around them to further keep the tools from each other. We acknowledge and venerate the SAW and deny the existence of the screwdriver.
Then because the SAW isn't able to create on its own more dogma is added to it to prop up it's failing. The SAW will become whole again in 2010. Someone decided by verbally changing the nature and conditions of the tools they'd work again. This is the creation of delusion (illusion). Tools in their whole form functionality is creation of reality.
Hello 9eagle9,
I was just passing, and read your threat.
Your first line and last line interest me.
We could be talking at cross purposes, so forgive me if I too have the wrong end of the stick.
Let's take the last line. Reality cannot be created. Reality is the only non-thing that IS real.
So what is real? Well, to be real.......a thing can never not be real. As all things are created,
they have no constant reality!
So what is constant? Well, that which knows! Consciousness....pure consciousness!
Pure consciousness never ever changes. That is the only constant in any universe.
As to the first line.
Until we understand consciousness, we will always be in confusion. Because our
consciousness see through a cloud of habitual ideas, it will always made the same
choices because it just habitually re-acts.
So the timeline, karma free will stays the same. We have been doing this for eons.
However, something is happening now to speed up the process, and we are getting
a bigger picture....or maybe it's a fake picture.
Haven't decided yet!
All the best
pie'n'eal
9eagle9
15th May 2011, 17:06
To clarify:
Making things up is not creating reality.
Creating reality is creating from reality. Regardless if one is fully versed in the conditions of reality or don't know about the conditions of reality... that doesn't mean they don't exist. You can't create reality persay , its conditions are already there. Know what I mean. Like we don't have to create the law of manifestation, that is a condition that pre exists already.
Making things up is making things up and fails to create or express anything.
Some folks make things up as they go along and some people create reality (from reality) as they go along. Its easy to tell the difference between the two.
At the beginning there was dirt, and subquantum particles...
then comes the idea, or vision.
The divine part (unknown mystery) made the dirt and the passage ways
for the dirt to fly towards the consciousness that has an idea.
I think it's all rather marvellous.
To clarify:
Making things up is not creating reality.
Creating reality is creating from reality. Regardless if one is fully versed in the conditions of reality or don't know about the conditions of reality... that doesn't mean they don't exist. You can't create reality persay , its conditions are already there. Know what I mean. Like we don't have to create the law of manifestation, that is a condition that pre exists already.
Making things up is making things up and fails to create or express anything.
Some folks make things up as they go along and some people create reality (from reality) as they go along. Its easy to tell the difference between the two.
AH HA!
Anything, anything created has to have a beginning, a middle and an end!!!!
Therefore it cannot have any inherent existence of it's own. IT IS CREATED!
Again if a thing IS REAL, it will never not exist...it is real forever.
How do you define real?
Everything created, is created by causes and conditions. True there is no to creating, but none of it lasts, it only seems to be real. Take time, time only exists in relation to things that change. Time does not exist!
If reality (which has to be pure consciousness) does decide to create something,
it will only be created to benefit, those who think anything is real. Because they cannot see the illusion.
We spend all our time creating our own confusion.
I know I do!
Is this fun, or is this fun!
pie'n'eal
PurpleLama
16th May 2011, 13:01
I would have thought that changing the way things are in the timeline you were in if not THE test, was at least a huge part of it.
Attempting to get out of that by taking yourself to another one would surely be selfish and an instant fail?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?
Rob, let me say thank you, for this provides, to me, the most salient point. In magical terms, it is the difference between black and white. The black works for himself, and is missing the point, whereas the white works only for others, and the universe rushes in to assist because the goal is the same. It's like the old saying, be careful what you wish for because you might get it. One may indeed change things for one's own benefit, but the result will never quite be the good that one envisioned for oneself. It's quite easy to misinterpret this to be due to lack of perfect discipline, or to some other factor, when in truth the operation of selfishness is simply out of alignment with what is really real, not subject to illusion. When the desire to change the reality is out of concern for others without regard for self, it is in alignment with the "perspective" of the universe, creator, whatever you want to call it. Then, the work is easy, discipline is not required, and it just flows right in.
What we have here is a situation. There are those out there who are trying to cultivate a reality that is very much the selfish end of the stick, and they carry out their operations on a planetary scale. They are making themselves a reality where everything falls under their control and they are counting on our confusion to put us there. All this discussion is clearing the confusion, but still we are not at the point of optimum clarity.
So, over there in the other thread where this was most recently brought to light, along with timeline shifting another topic was in discussion, which was Ho'oponopono. This, in my understanding, is a concept integral to the discussion of timelines, and to me, there was no coincidence in anything that happened over in that thread. You see, the shaman who "healed" the criminally insane prisoners, was very much changing timelines, illustrating, in my view, what could very well be the right and proper way of excersizing influence over this reality we collectively call home. The point isn't about removing yourself from a negative reality, rather lifting up and healing the reality you continuously experience.
As far as free will goes, to my understanding multidimensional reality and free will are conditions that require each other.
In my view there is a timeline where everything is at rest with creator. It's the only "real" timeline at all. All the lines of time and space are woven into a fabric that forms what looks like a tunnel around the place of rest. The intricacy of this "fabric" seems to be almost fractal in nature. The whole thing ultimately runs into itself, the tunnel in truth being a torus.
If reality was written in binary, then the truth looks like a "2". There are so many "rogue" bloodlines extending back further, even, than the PTB can remember. The calvary has arrived, and it's me and you and you and you and you, ad infinitum. I love you all.
Oh, and special thanks to 9eagle9 for everything you have said over the last week. You totally rock ****ing steady!
PurpleLama
16th May 2011, 13:21
As for karma, the forgiveness takes care of all of that.
9eagle9
16th May 2011, 13:38
Defining reality in an illusionary world is difficult. Basically we are working within perception.
Even a shift of perception creates conditions for creating.
But if you have the intention to manifest something, and you bring that intention, goal or thought into material reality....then you have created realty as we know it.
It depends on what level you are working at.
To clarify:
Making things up is not creating reality.
Creating reality is creating from reality. Regardless if one is fully versed in the conditions of reality or don't know about the conditions of reality... that doesn't mean they don't exist. You can't create reality persay , its conditions are already there. Know what I mean. Like we don't have to create the law of manifestation, that is a condition that pre exists already.
Making things up is making things up and fails to create or express anything.
Some folks make things up as they go along and some people create reality (from reality) as they go along. Its easy to tell the difference between the two.
AH HA!
Anything, anything created has to have a beginning, a middle and an end!!!!
Therefore it cannot have any inherent existence of it's own. IT IS CREATED!
Again if a thing IS REAL, it will never not exist...it is real forever.
How do you define real?
Everything created, is created by causes and conditions. True there is no to creating, but none of it lasts, it only seems to be real. Take time, time only exists in relation to things that change. Time does not exist!
If reality (which has to be pure consciousness) does decide to create something,
it will only be created to benefit, those who think anything is real. Because they cannot see the illusion.
We spend all our time creating our own confusion.
I know I do!
Is this fun, or is this fun!
pie'n'eal
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