UK Summary Care Records... are you opting in or out? [Archive]

Kulapops

18th May 2010, 16:06

This thread applies to UK only.

The NHS are rolling out a database which will contain everyone's name, date of birth and medical history. One and a quarter million names are already on it and 50 million or so to follow.

I heard that if you don't opt out you are opting in.

They are not exactly publicising its existence.

Someone mentioned there was a deadline for opting out this month. Anyone heard anything about this?

http://www.nhscarerecords.nhs.uk/options/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7408379/Patients-medical-records-go-online-without-consent.html

Ooh, it's a tricky one... "To be on the database, or not To be on the database. . . that is the question."

Just think, if Shakespeare had been born that bit later...

I do think it is intriguing, the stories like this that do not make the news. However, since I am much less well informed these days (you guys know I don't follow all this time-wasting rubbish anymore :0) ), it can of course be that you are all very well informed about this.

I also found it heartening to hear we have (govt) given the bee-saving fraternity £10 million to look into the devastating issue of bee decline and disappearance. Though it doesn't sound much when you read that the amount set aside for the NHS summary care record project is £11 billion. (can I really have got that right???!)

Ahh... it's so nice to know that in the end, we are so much more valuable than the bees.

To Bee or not to Bee, what was the question?

K

folotheflo

18th May 2010, 17:06

i did not know anything about this, and so i am extremely grateful you brought it to my attention, cheers. not even sure what to make of it, i guess it seems like a good idea, something about it though feels strange !

Kulapops

18th May 2010, 17:43

Well who needs an ID card system... when you're already on a national database anyway? I guess they'll just get around to adding photos to this one a little bit later on...

ElvenMyst

18th May 2010, 18:02

Hi Kulapops.....I'm not sure how to vote here because I have heard of it and am still not sure whether to opt in or out.

I received a letter from my surgery about 3 weeks ago explaining the new system. I can't find it at the moment but I remember the the cut off date for opting out is July 2010. If you do not actively opt out by then....you will be assumed to have given your consent to being on the database. While I can see the benefits of having easy access medical records....the potential for abuse of the system is pretty huge too. Like I said...I'm still making up my mind.

Blessings....

Elven

KaliMagic

18th May 2010, 21:13

well i think i must be from a different part of the country because i had a letter about this about two years ago now i think with a date to opt out. and yes... if you didn't send a letter explaining you wanted OUT, they would automatically put you IN! i chose to opt OUT without a question really... i mean would you really trust them with your personal information......? i don't even know if it will matter i opted out... who knows you could prob end up on the system anyway and then what... it's too late!
i think, well actually hope, as with almost everything, it is started off from the right intentions but i can't help but feel that it isn't in MY best interests, although that is how it is pitched. and i wouldn't be surprised if it was £11billion put aside for it kulapops. i'm sure we could all think of a million better things this money could be used for... ie providing actual healthcare to people that are sick and can't afford the extortionate prices big pharma demand. or even better... let's invest in providing school children with good quality nutritous food to help prevent people getting sick in the first place!
just my two cents...
with love x

Kulapops

18th May 2010, 22:29

Hmm.. yes, imagine spending £11 billion instead to educate people about diet and healthy living, self empowered healing mechanisms, homeopathy, reflexology, acupuncture, watching what you eat, how to avoid kidney and liver stones,..well, I don't know, but there's a wealth of information out there about many health topics.

I'm no expert, but £11billion does seem rather a lot for a giant Excel spreadsheet. Especially when you can save the Bee race for a mere £10 million... :0)

You're right ElvenMyst, no option for not being sure. I'm not sure myself, I only heard of this a couple of days ago. In fact it is the seeming quitness of it all that is so intriguing. Perhaps it's not cloak and dagger. It seems that everyone will get sent a letter and you can take it from there. However...

They say you can change your mind either way later on, but once you're on the database, you only have the option to have you're profile hidden, it cannot be deleted.

A bit like Facebook... I suppose :rolleyes:

But like so many of these things... does anyone really care? I bet the Ashtar Command thread has had about 20 responses in the time this one has had 3... lol...

Meanwhile, the totalitarian tiptoe as David Icke calls it rolls on...

Can toes roll ?

K

SteveX

18th May 2010, 23:10

Don't know anything about the database but it sounds like a good idea.

I used to work for LMS (logistical medical services). The job had three parts to it which all consisted of delivery. 1) Transferring hospital post between various hospitals. 2) Collecting body fluids and parts and taking to analysis and the biggest part 3) Delivering GP's their weekly notes and medical records. Even as a driver and the guy that handed over this stuff I wasn’t allowed to look in the boxes because it was confidential. That was a sacking offence. They really had a rod up their arse about confidentiality.

Medical records follow a patient around the country. From hospital to GP surgery. From the GP surgery back to the hospital and from one GP surgery to a new GP surgery. All via area database offices. When the universities new years students started my GP run was mega loaded with medical records. These records following these students around the country.

So....as an example, if you live in the north of England but had an accident on the south coast your medical record would take 1 to 2 weeks to catch up with you. Under this system it would be e-mailed to the hospital in seconds.

They'll still kill you though but at least they'll find out what it was they shouldn't have injected you with sooner.

lightblue

18th May 2010, 23:37

But like so many of these things... does anyone really care? I bet the Ashtar Command thread has had about 20 responses in the time this one has had 3... lol...

Meanwhile, the totalitarian tiptoe as David Icke calls it rolls on...

no, no i care but did not know what to say, i knew nothing of it....my gut reaction is no, thanks very much...
i'll ask about this at my gp's...someone i know is a consultant surgeon with the nhs, he should give me an unbiased opinion...at the time he was up against the swine flu vaccine, but along with other staff was leant on so heavily apparently... ended up having to get it - which he regrets...i'm really intrigued by this...l :unsure:

bluestflame

19th May 2010, 01:45

there's also a dna serviceor project getting round, dna database or something to offer people to map thier dna to know thier genetic ancestry , the word "database" got me

yet another covert operation out in the open

Kulapops

19th May 2010, 09:05

Yes, I'm really open to what people think about this one. Course, the scope of discussion is rather narrow, as it only applies to UK peeps just now.

But you can bet if they're rolling it out here, they're rolling it out there sooner or later. Yes, Steve, perhaps it's useful to have a system where everyone's records are instantly available, whether you're in A&E in portsmouth, or at home in Bridgend. But the tone of these things, and the way in which they're implemented are a little sinister. the only way you can get an opt out form is by going to a certain page on the web. They don't send one out with the initial letter. You're given a time limit to respond, and if you don't, you're opted in.

Also, this is not 'news' and no one is talking about it, yet ID cards is big news. Why? Furthermore, you can not come off the database once you're on it. Nuh-huh.

Maybe we shouldn't be concerned. Ok so there may be a security issue about people hacking the database and finding out some MP has erectile dysfunction and posting it on their website....but still, we have internet profiles for shopping and various other stuff all over the place, so why not this?

I was surprised I'd not heard anything about it. I wondered if anyone else had.

I mean, an £11 billion programme for our benefit deserves a little fanfare don't you think?

K

Gita

19th May 2010, 10:10

Thanks Kula for bringing this to our attention. I just phoned my surgery and asked where the forms were and they didn't have a clue what I was talking about!:blink: I gave them the website address you provided and they said they will check it out and get back to me! I'm dumbfounded! Anyway, I insisted on being sent the forms as I do not wish myself or my daughter to be on yet another database. I've got a nasty feeling though that we'll somehow find our way on that database whether we like it or not! Anyway, shall keep you posted when I hear back from the surgery. Thanks again hun.:thumb:

SteveX

19th May 2010, 10:41

Gita

You are already on an area database. The hard copy of your record is those buff envelopes at the GP surgery.

Kulapops

19th May 2010, 10:47

You're welcome, darlin'...

My take is, let's do the things we can do. Opt in or opt out, it's everyone's choice... but DO something. Get involved with the decision making as far as you can.

Don't want to stir a hornet's nest with the Ashtar Command... but what can you DO about that? You either believe or you don't , but what is the ACTION ?

Here is something that is slipping under your doormat, and most people, myself included, have no idea that such a programme is going on.

I'm not saying it's clandestine, but it is something over which, if you live in the UK, you have a choice.

You have a decision to make, so decide. I'm not saying go one way or the other, I'm saying... make the choice, don't let it be made for you because of ignorance or apathy.

Now there's no excuse for ignorance, because I've posted this thread. :0)

No.. this is not scare mongering.. nothing is going to happen to you... time is not 'short' on this one.. it just is. But once you are sent a letter, if indeed we ever get letters, you will be placed on the database along with all your medical history for all to see (those that have access).

Maybe that's a good thing? You decide.

K

Gita

19th May 2010, 11:39

Gita

You are already on an area database. The hard copy of your record is those buff envelopes at the GP surgery.

I know Steve - I just meant a digital database where the rest of the world can get instant access and the implications that it carries with it such as id theft and so on!:rolleyes:

Kula hun, I've already made my decision - it was a no brainer for me. Thanks again for letting us know in the nick of time - no other bugger was going too. :thumb::suspicious:

Jacqui D

19th May 2010, 12:24

I had a letter from my surgery at the end of last year, i have not opted out i really do not see the point anyone wishing data on a person can get it is what i feel, i was told it would be better for those who fell ill while abroad etc, then your data would be easily accessed by hospitals and surgeries. Well this is where i get a little confused because my son was taken ill last year in Greece they got his records up straight away!! So how they do that? if it has not been finalised yet.
Another thing which was reported on the TV was that our records were being sold off out to places like India, insurances companies were buying these records and selling them on!
Obviously a big scam going on there also.
I asked what benefits would there be for me and was told i would be able to look up my own records on line!! so i am not sure really which is the best way to go, in my mind anyone who has the ability to hack into computers will have no problems.
Just another way of taking our privacy away from us as far as i can see.

SteveX

19th May 2010, 14:56

I know Steve - I just meant a digital database where the rest of the world can get instant access and the implications that it carries with it such as id theft and so on!:rolleyes:

Gita
Having worked in this area I can assure you they have a rod up their arse about confidentiality. As the guy that carted these records around it was made clear that looking inside these boxes of medical records was a sacking offence. All rather drama drama if you ask me. I mean ffs what advantage can I get from knowing someone’s health details?

As for the database, it'll be secured to discourage the most ardent hacker. What good it would do them to know how ill or well you are beats me. Surely they would be best to target Birth Marriages and Deaths.....registry offices, for ID theft.

Nothing here to get worried about in my opinion. In fact I would prefer an ambulance driver or trainee A&E doctor to know before hand, not to inject me with penicillin, if I was unconscious and not able to tell them ...NOooo. I'm allergic to the stuff.

Gita

19th May 2010, 17:10

Gita
Having worked in this area I can assure you they have a rod up their arse about confidentiality. As the guy that carted these records around it was made clear that looking inside these boxes of medical records was a sacking offence. All rather drama drama if you ask me. I mean ffs what advantage can I get from knowing someone’s health details?

As for the database, it'll be secured to discourage the most ardent hacker. What good it would do them to know how ill or well you are beats me. Surely they would be best to target Birth Marriages and Deaths.....registry offices, for ID theft.

Nothing here to get worried about in my opinion. In fact I would prefer an ambulance driver or trainee A&E doctor to know before hand, not to inject me with penicillin, if I was unconscious and not able to tell them ...NOooo. I'm allergic to the stuff.

:blink::blink:

Seriously though Steve, there are so many implications involved but the most that catches my attention is that our privacy is being stripped from us more and more where people en mass are being forced into a database of one kind or another which will in turn be centralised and become under the control of the few that I’d rather not be under the control of! Not to mention how easy this will all be for them to chip us with most of info at hand. It doesn’t hurt to make it as difficult for them as possible and I always choose not to queue up in any line that leads me deeper into their appalling systems. We’ve done very well without this centralisation for centuries and frankly I’d rather take my chances. Good thing I’m not allergic to anything!:p

SteveX

19th May 2010, 17:35

It’s your prerogative and I have to agree, as you imply, they have done OK without a centralized body. However, you are already on a regional NHS database. I don't see any difference between 1 central database or the 16 (or whatever it is) in England

As a former employee I'm aware off the confidentiality and as a repeat patient (16 busted bones, 4 ft of scars and 4 gut ops) I can see the benefits of instant access to my records.

It’s up to you though. I was just pointing out the difference to what it is and what it’s going to be. In the light of it, it’s not a lot.

lightblue

19th May 2010, 17:36

so kula,
when did you say the dead line was to opt out, end of this month? i'll be paying my gp's a visit as soon as this friday i decided...see what they know...i certainly recieved no letters regarding that and would like to know why...

i had a think and i am not opting in, no...don't care for other pro arguments...don't have much on my record anyway, touch wood...so why would i be on that register? they could get away with it i suppose if they said it would apply to people with chronic conditions dependent on certain type of medication - maybe, only maybe that would make sense...i briefly spoke on the phone with a good friend of a friend, consultant with the nhs and he said he saw no sense in it and he also said " the government's not been good about records safe keeping"...dead right, i agreed..

just remembered the sensitive information about families on benefits being left on a train by an oblivious civil servant only a couple of years ago.. no computer hacking needed in that instance..from what i know they never retrieved it..where did it end up? no, i am not doing it...l :no:

Kulapops

19th May 2010, 23:43

Steve and Blue... you make fair points. And Gita.. your posts always make sense to me.

Like you Blue, I don't think I have much that needs noting. However, I can well see if someone has allergies, and complications, it may well be in their best interests for their data to be readily available.

What gets me is the inference that ... if you don't opt in.. there could be terrible consequences. And I think... oh... so the system we have now makes for terrible consequences does it? So why haven't you been broadcasting that?

No, as Gita implies.. it's the totalitarian tiptoe... a bit of info here, a bit there, and before you no it, you don't have a right not to comply. Each strip is a layer removed.

Might be alright in our lifetimes... but come the next, it will be unthinkable to not be on the dbase. Just been born ? Sign here please.

So it is the assumed stance that we don't have any rights to privacy that I think needs considering, and you have to judge for yourself if you think that is meritable or not.

Any previous convictions ? That is usually hidden from a jury. Why? Let's just pull up the dBase shall we ....?

Ever left work due to ill health? Bear with me just one moment.... Oh. Computer says no.

Not to mention the scores of companies that might be interested to know that you suffer from migraines... and might well be tempted to put you on their mailing list....

K

Gita

20th May 2010, 12:18

Ok so I didn’t get that phone call from the surgery yesterday as promised (what a shocker!) so I phoned them today and after being passed around from one receptionist to another, I was finally told to download the form and print it out myself and then hand it into the surgery!! :blink: Hmmm! I was also told that the surgery is not ready for this yet and in time they’ll sort it but when I said the cut off date was in July I was told that the NHS webpage was wrong and it should be updated and that I should get in touch with NHS and tell them they were wrong!!:blink:

Then I brought up the subject of those who did not have computers or printers and I was met with a very long silence followed by a very long lecture on God knows what as my mind went blank by that stage!! No one seems to know what they’re doing much alone the implications of it all!!:blink::rolleyes:

Needless to say I’ve downloaded and printed two copies of the care form for myself and my daughter and will hand them in to the surgery asap!

Thanks again Kula. :hug:

SteveX

20th May 2010, 13:13

Gita

20th May 2010, 13:38

Ah Steve, got a bad feeling you may be spot on this one! eeek indeed! :eek:

Kulapops

20th May 2010, 20:14

Nothing to see... just join the queue... step this way please...

Sir, I said step this way please...

Anyway.. at least they'll have a handy way of getting hold of you Steve, next time the Vaccinations come around.. and they'll be able to see easily from your records (in Belgium!) that you said 'no' the last time....

;)

Take care peeps, it's your life...

K

P.S. 244 view and 5 (count 'em) votes. Hmm.. :0).

SteveX

21st May 2010, 01:32

lightblue

21st May 2010, 19:35

right...i had a chat with my gp earlier today - in my experience he's alright... he says that the whole project's been put on hold, everything is at a standstill from the very latest that he knows of...as it happens, they ran out of dosh...no more money for the initiative to be taken forward...
i persisted in wanting to have an opt out form and he had it printed off for me..the form is pretty basic, but it does not tell you who to mail it to...it does give you a phone number to ring in case of queries, so i guess i'll use it next week...i will want an acknowledgment of receipt...the number to ring is 0845 603 8510....:yu: l

Kulapops

21st May 2010, 20:25

Thanks Lightblue.. Steve...

Ran out of money ? ? Can't be right that it cost £11 billion then... I must double check that one.... How can you put up £11 billion and not come up with anything ? :0).... Maybe they put the money in Northern Rock for safe-keeping...

P.S. I think the deadline has to do with when you get the letter.. 12 weeks from then... Hence my friend talking about May being the deadline, whereas other's June and July...

K

Kulapops

21st May 2010, 20:30

No....seems a search on £11 billion pulls up this...

taken from... http://themorningflight.com/news-comment/summary-care-record-opt-out-now/

"EVERY SINGLE PATIENT SHOULD OPT OUT OF THE NHS DATABASE WITHOUT DELAY

The Labour government is desperately hoping to transfer everyone’s medical records to yet another centrally-held, government-controlled database, making patients’ medical records potentially viewable to anyone working within the NHS. Your GP records would ultimately be no longer held at the surgery, and the Department of Health would become the data-controller for your medical records, instead of your GP.

Those who do not wish to have their details on the £11 billion computer system are supposed to be able to opt out by informing health authorities. But doctors have accused the Government of rushing the project through, meaning that patients have had their details uploaded to the database before they have had a chance to object.

Today I have opted out of this database.

In January 2008 a poll by the British Medical Association revealed that nine out of ten doctors have no confidence in the government’s ability to safeguard patients’ data online or felt that they were in a position to assure patients that their data would be safe."

K

lightblue

21st May 2010, 21:11

Today I have opted out of this database.

who/where did you mail your form to? are you sure your opt out is fully acknowledged?
i aim to do it next week...l :yu:

Kulapops

22nd May 2010, 19:52

Ermm... that's a quote, Lightblue... for the full story, check out the link. . .

lightblue

22nd May 2010, 21:20

kula,
ring your gp's and see...mine says the whole thing is not on any more, because the health authorities were out of money...he didn't look disappointed, in fact he was very helpful when i said i wanted that form - he took a longish while to search and find it on his computer...it's not his job to print forms for me, he could have referred me back to the reception desk...
there may not be any more letters sent out ...i didn't get one...whether they care or not , i'll opt out...got the form...:wink: l

irishspirit

24th May 2010, 17:54

Count me out. I will be downloading the form and passing to my GP. BTW, I haven't got anytime for GP. HAHA. I go natural.

SteveX

24th May 2010, 19:35

Interesting article about DNA records.

http://www.disclose.tv/frameset.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-1280891%2FNHS-creates-secret-database-babies-blood-samples-parental-consent.html

Kulapops

24th May 2010, 22:49

Here's an article that talks about suspension. However suspension does imply to me that it will continue later on.

http://www.e-health-insider.com/news/5833/scr_roll-out_suspended.

It also seems tht the £11 billion relates to the general IT programme for the NHS and not just the Summary Care Record portion. Phew !

K