Is all of the Earth Israel?

[hexenomega]

ok,
This may mean nothing, but, for the last 3 weeks, an old mate of mine, who became a christian 10 years or so ago, and he's on fire for it, found me and from what he says, i'm ripe for being a christian, all i have to do is utter the words and thats it ,i'm saved, well it don't feel like that but i have a great respect for him and dont want him to feel bad, anyway, he brought 2 bibles, a book on God, and some lollys???, and they sat there on my table as he is coming most night's, but about a week ago, i just opened one of the bibles, just for a look, as i've heard you should just open one and you get inspired, well, the page i was on mentioned isreal, and the strangest thing happened, in my mind, no voice, just a thought told me that what we all know as God named the whole earth isreal, it is Gods name for the place, and as such, we are all isreali's, and God is unhappy at what is going on here, told you it was weird, but the thought seemed not my own, i told my mate, len ,this, he says its evil and all that, and i'm going to his church this sunday, i'll tell you what it was like, as i've never been to church in my life, maybe they will all burst into flames or summit,lol, but i thought i'd just share that with you all.

love and light always, hexen

[shadowstalker]

Which part of the bible did you read and which version of the bible.

Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

[TWINCANS]

Furthermore IMHO subjecting children to these myths as if they are true is tandamount to child abuse. Religion pollutes the brain and the objective observation of reality like nothing else. The great HE in the sky is the creator? Tell me, have you ever seen a man give birth? End of. There is no more powerful mind control than religion.

[MoSh187]

Furthermore IMHO subjecting children to these myths as if they are true is tandamount to child abuse. Religion pollutes the brain and the objective observation of reality like nothing else. The great HE in the sky is the creator? Tell me, have you ever seen a man give birth? End of. There is no more powerful mind control than religion.

I thought it was the illuminati and the secret orders of the past who Manipulated the religions themselves to be violent. There are many "Christians," out there who will tell you that the Catholic Church coming out of Rome in no way represents the "True," Christian beliefs.

[Cjay]

What's in a name?

Israel - Isis (moon), Ra (sun) El (saturn) ?

[Lost Soul]

In God's eye, we are one people on one planet. There is no nationality, ethnicity, religion or any other man made artificially designed designation that separates us. The saying, "One in all things, all things in one," applies to all people, animals, plants, the air, the mountains, the rocks, the water for we are all the Creator's creation.

[TWINCANS]

I recently heard another description - that we are all 'hairs on the same dog'. Love that, simple, no ego there. No bowing, worshipping or titheing either.

[TWINCANS]

Furthermore IMHO subjecting children to these myths as if they are true is tandamount to child abuse. Religion pollutes the brain and the objective observation of reality like nothing else. The great HE in the sky is the creator? Tell me, have you ever seen a man give birth? End of. There is no more powerful mind control than religion.

I thought it was the illuminati and the secret orders of the past who Manipulated the religions themselves to be violent. There are many "Christians," out there who will tell you that the Catholic Church coming out of Rome in no way represents the "True," Christian beliefs.

And they'd be dead on. As the boys in dresses themselves acknowedge, "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." Pope Leo X

[Seikou-Kishi]

What's in a name?

Israel - Isis (moon), Ra (sun) El (saturn) ?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Israel

[mosquito]

This is really interesting Hexen, I'd say go with your intuition, the "voice" told you something which is undeniable (leaving aside all the religious bullsh1t), namely that we are all children of the divine force, and planet Erath is our divinely given home. There are no "chosen" ones.
I'd never thought of this interpretation of the bible before - thanks !

[Lord Sidious]

In God's eye, we are one people on one planet. There is no nationality, ethnicity, religion or any other man made artificially designed designation that separates us. The saying, "One in all things, all things in one," applies to all people, animals, plants, the air, the mountains, the rocks, the water for we are all the Creator's creation.

That isn't what your book says.
Didn't your god create the tribes and nations after the tower of babel so that the various groups couldn't work together again?

[Teakai]

What kind of lollies?





And - I'm digging your idea about Israel.

[Cjay]

What's in a name?

Israel - Isis (moon), Ra (sun) El (saturn) ?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Israel

I have read about a dozen different interpretations. Underline, bold, blinking "INTERPRETATIONS".

I'm not saying any one of them is the correct interpretation. I put the question mark at the end for a reason.

[Mostafa]

back in the day when I was a school boy an Islamic theology teacher of mine said one day everyone on the face of the earth will be Muslims, Islam will be victorious like our republic was and I thought what the hell is this guy talking about.
religions played us.

[Carmody]

Which part of the bible did you read and which version of the bible.

Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

I used to feel like I was ON acid. Everything was dripping and tripping. Very very badly.

[shadowstalker]

Which part of the bible did you read and which version of the bible.

Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

I used to feel like I was ON acid. Everything was dripping and tripping. Very very badly.
Wow, I guess i'm not the only one to experience that, thank you for letting me know I wasn't alone in that.

[Seikou-Kishi]

back in the day when I was a school boy an Islamic theology teacher of mine said one day everyone on the face of the earth will be Muslims, Islam will be victorious like our republic was and I thought what the hell is this guy talking about.
religions played us.

This post has made me smile so much, I didn't just want to press the thanks button :D

[TWINCANS]

Which part of the bible did you read and which version of the bible.

Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

I used to feel like I was ON acid. Everything was dripping and tripping. Very very badly.
Wow, I guess i'm not the only one to experience that, hank you for letting me know I wasn't alone in that.

Definite feeling of alternate reality. Count me in too as one with that blotter'ed feeling.

[loveandgratitude]

Watch out for those christian lollies. Maybe they are LSD, mind control. "I felt like i was on ACID" LOL.

I am sad to say that the Bible has been inflitrated, along with the Koran, along with all the religions.
The old testiment is an atrocity. Blood, revenge, sacrifice, wars, and on its goes. Where is the loving GOD?

The Bible was written 20 or 30 years after Christ died. You have Peter and Paul. One sold out to the Jews of Rome, Paul I think it was. Then we have the Kings James Bible version written by the Jewish Freemasons.

God dwells within. You do not need an outside influence to speak with God. You do not need a third party to intervene on your behalf. Learn to speak directly with God. God, Universal Love, whatever you want to call the Creator, really loves a good chat. Did not Jesus say, the Kingdom of God dwells within.

Most Holy books have about 5% truth, to rest you can toss. That truth is -
LOVE, COMPASSION & FORGIVENESS.

Any book that talks about revenge is a book of Satan himself. Remember Abraham, about to sacrifice his son.
WTF. This is not a loving God that would ask you to do that. The creator of this world is a GOD OF LOVE.

http://gospelgifs.com/clips/clips2/images/gil001.jpg

[Teakai]

Watch out for those christian lollies. Maybe they are LSD, mind control. "I felt like i was on ACID" LOL.

I am sad to say that the Bible has been inflitrated, along with the Koran, along with all the religions.
The old testiment is an atrocity. Blood, revenge, sacrifice, wars, and on its goes. Where is the loving GOD?

The Bible was written 20 or 30 years after Christ died. You have Peter and Paul. One sold out to the Jews of Rome, Paul I think it was. Then was have the Kings James Bible version written by the Jewish Freemasons.

God dwells within. You do not need an outside influence to speak with God. You do not need a third party to intervene on your behalf. Learn to speak directly with God. God, Universal Love, whatever you want to call the Creator, really loves a good chat. Did not Jesus say, the Kingdom of God dwells within.

Most Holy books have about 5% truth, to rest you can toss. That truth is -
LOVE, COMPASSION & FORGIVENESS.

Any book that talks about revenge is a book of Satan himself. Remember Abraham, about to sacrifice his son.
WTF. This is not a loving God that would ask you to do that. The creator of this world is a GOD OF LOVE.

Hi Loveandgratitude - it was 300 years after Jesus died that the church started to assmble the writings that would be the bible - then they kept adding to it and taking away from it for years after.

The gnostic teachings arent included at all.

It's pretty shonky from the get go.

[MoSh187]

The gnostic teachings arent included at all.

It's pretty shonky from the get go.

Yes, and it was many of the gnostic christians and other "True christians" who were killed and slaughtered during periods of the crusades, witch hunts etc...

[TWINCANS]

The gnostic teachings arent included at all.

It's pretty shonky from the get go.

Yes, and it was many of the gnostic christians and other "True christians" who were killed and slaughtered during periods of the crusades, witch hunts etc...

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth. Son's head looks a bit precariously sat up on shoulders so mum scurries over to Jerusalem and -----tah dah the very place the rebel-chief-cum-hero was born! Oh and here are pieces of the real cross! Oh look at that - this is the very spot where he fell with the cross! Phew! Son makes cozy with the christ crazies who've become the go-to cult for the oppressed. Did Rome oppress....um? And bingo, not a sun is born, but a whole new way to lie to the people is born.


The only 'True Christians' died with the closing of the Egyptian temples.

[RedeZra]

Yes, and it was many of the gnostic christians and other "True christians" who were killed and slaughtered during periods of the crusades, witch hunts etc...

a true Christian has never died in vain ; )

a true Christian is one who is guided and guarded by Jesus Christ the Living God ; )

[RedeZra]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )

[TWINCANS]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )


That acid dripping on my head feeling again...

[RedeZra]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )


That acid dripping on my head feeling again...

I don't know if you can compare Jesus Christ to acid unless you get high on it ; )

[Teakai]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )

This is what I think is one of the big problems with religion. Things have to be bent and twisted to make them fit. It's a contradticiton that Jesus who spoke of love being the greatest of the commandments should then be credited with guiding Constantine - a murderer who was perfectly happy to keep and increase his riches and murder to do it to begin a church that is toxic and everything but loving - because Jesus wanted it.

The Cathars were more inclined to follow the teachings of Jesus - was the inquisition guided by Jesus as well?

[RedeZra]

It's a contradticiton that Jesus who spoke of love being the greatest of the commandments should then be credited with guiding Constantine - a murderer who was perfectly happy to keep and increase his riches and murder to do it to begin a church that is toxic and everything but loving - because Jesus wanted it.


let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

[Teakai]

let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

That's a bit pointless because if I give you one that says negative stuff about Constantine you'll just over ride it with the polished Christian version.

Wasn't Constantine a mighty warrior who prayed for help to defeat his brother in law?

Did the r/c church not start 300 years after the death of Jesus?

Isn't the church responsible for the inquisition and thousands upon thousands of murders?
Didn't Jesus say to love each other?
(and, ironically, the god the church was (apparently) worshipping commanded 'thou shalt not kill')

Isn't the r/c church the richest in the world?
Didn't Jesus say to the rich man that if he wanted to follow him he must give away his wealth?

See - it just doesn't sit right. I guess as a Chrisitan you are bound to have to accept the whole - but I really don't understand how you can reconcile the hypocrisy and be comforatble with it.

[TWINCANS]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )

That acid dripping on my head feeling again...



Ok, a piece of toast and a cuppa later, and I'm all relaxed again.
Firstly, I wish to apologize for my very sharp and disrespectful response. I am sure you honestly believe what you posted and it was unworthy of me to address you in that way. Please forgive me.

If you are interested to continue the research, where did Pythagorus go to school. For how long?

[TWINCANS]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )

This is what I think is one of the big problems with religion. Things have to be bent and twisted to make them fit. It's a contradticiton that Jesus who spoke of love being the greatest of the commandments should then be credited with guiding Constantine - a murderer who was perfectly happy to keep and increase his riches and murder to do it to begin a church that is toxic and everything but loving - because Jesus wanted it.

The Cathars were more inclined to follow the teachings of Jesus - was the inquisition guided by Jesus as well?

Did Constantine channel then? Or did his mum?

I think you will find that the Cathars were more inclined to follow the original Egyptian religion. Remember they are an extension of the Knights Templar who found all the original scrolls (copies of) when they popped over to kill a few Muslims.

[Teakai]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth.

Constantine was guided by Jesus Christ and so was his mum ; )

This is what I think is one of the big problems with religion. Things have to be bent and twisted to make them fit. It's a contradticiton that Jesus who spoke of love being the greatest of the commandments should then be credited with guiding Constantine - a murderer who was perfectly happy to keep and increase his riches and murder to do it to begin a church that is toxic and everything but loving - because Jesus wanted it.

The Cathars were more inclined to follow the teachings of Jesus - was the inquisition guided by Jesus as well?

Did Constantine channel then? Or did his mum?

I think you will find that the Cathars were more inclined to follow the original Egyptian religion. Remember they are an extension of the Knights Templar who found all the original scrolls (copies of) when they popped over to kill a few Muslims.

It's all about the mysteries and what was taught in the mystery schools. The knowledge was meant to be used for the benefit of mankind - only some abused it.

According to some book I read Constantine went on a temper rampage because the mysteries were not imparted to him.

[TWINCANS]

[/QUOTE]
Did Constantine channel then? Or did his mum?

I think you will find that the Cathars were more inclined to follow the original Egyptian religion. Remember they are an extension of the Knights Templar who found all the original scrolls (copies of) when they popped over to kill a few Muslims.[/QUOTE]

It's all about the mysteries and what was taught in the mystery schools. The knowledge was meant ot be used for the benefit of mankind - only some abused it.

According to some book I read Constantine went on a temper rampage because the mysteries were not imparted to him.[/QUOTE]

Getting close. What exactly did the Mystery Schools teach? Although the RC church has destroyed all of it they can get their hands on over the centuries, it's not totally lost. Just not found in the church.

[Teakai]

Getting close. What exactly did the Mystery Schools teach? Although the RC church has destroyed all of it they can get their hands on over the centuries, it's not totally lost. Just not found in the church.

Most importantly - that there is no death.


The church requires you get only one life - all the better to control you with.

[RedeZra]

let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

That's a bit pointless because if I give you one that says negative stuff about Constantine you'll just over ride it with the polished Christian version.


there is so much mis- and disinfo out there so please let me see your sources in black n white ; )

[RedeZra]

Ok, a piece of toast and a cuppa later, and I'm all relaxed again.
Firstly, I wish to apologize for my very sharp and disrespectful response. I am sure you honestly believe what you posted and it was unworthy of me to address you in that way. Please forgive me.


it's okay Twincans

Christ and me can take it

so there is nothing to forgive ; )



I think you will find that the Cathars were more inclined to follow the original Egyptian religion. Remember they are an extension of the Knights Templar who found all the original scrolls (copies of) when they popped over to kill a few Muslims.

here you made an important observation

you have connected Egyptian Cathar and Templar... but you're not done yet ; )

[Wings]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth. Son's head looks a bit precariously sat up on shoulders so mum scurries over to Jerusalem and -----tah dah the very place the rebel-chief-cum-hero was born! Oh and here are pieces of the real cross! Oh look at that - this is the very spot where he fell with the cross! Phew! Son makes cozy with the christ crazies who've become the go-to cult for the oppressed. Did Rome oppress....um? And bingo, not a sun is born, but a whole new way to lie to the people is born.

How can you be so sure this is a 'myth'?

[TWINCANS]

Getting close. What exactly did the Mystery Schools teach? Although the RC church has destroyed all of it they can get their hands on over the centuries, it's not totally lost. Just not found in the church.

Most importantly - that there is no death.


The church requires you get only one life - all the better to control you with.


That's part of it for sure. But there was much more. I mentioned Pythagorus earlier. Where did he go to school and for how long? Finding that out gives you some idea of the profundity of the 'lost' teachings.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth. Son's head looks a bit precariously sat up on shoulders so mum scurries over to Jerusalem and -----tah dah the very place the rebel-chief-cum-hero was born! Oh and here are pieces of the real cross! Oh look at that - this is the very spot where he fell with the cross! Phew! Son makes cozy with the christ crazies who've become the go-to cult for the oppressed. Did Rome oppress....um? And bingo, not a sun is born, but a whole new way to lie to the people is born.

How can you be so sure this is a 'myth'?

Please define your idea of 'myth'.

¤=[Post Update]=¤






let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

That's a bit pointless because if I give you one that says negative stuff about Constantine you'll just over ride it with the polished Christian version.


there is so much mis- and disinfo out there so please let me see your sources in black n white ; )

Patience. The resident expert is at his dojo but due to return soon. Will post then.

[truthseekerdan]

Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

No kidding, there is so much negativity sometimes in these gatherings, that one with a 'higher vibration' feels like trapped in quick sand... :dizzy:

[TWINCANS]

Ok, a piece of toast and a cuppa later, and I'm all relaxed again.
Firstly, I wish to apologize for my very sharp and disrespectful response. I am sure you honestly believe what you posted and it was unworthy of me to address you in that way. Please forgive me.



it's okay Twincans

Christ and me can take it

so there is nothing to forgive ; )



I think you will find that the Cathars were more inclined to follow the original Egyptian religion. Remember they are an extension of the Knights Templar who found all the original scrolls (copies of) when they popped over to kill a few Muslims.

here you made an important observation

you have connected Egyptian Cathar and Templar... but you're not done yet ; )

Oh no we're not done, not by a long shot. We haven't even begun to ask where the original Egyptian religion came from.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Church's make me feel like there is acid dripping on me.

No kidding, there is so much negativity sometimes in these gatherings, that one with a 'higher vibration' feels like trapped in quick sand... :dizzy:

Or like your whole auric field is in danger of being wrapped in a thick black goo. That's how I feel.

[RedeZra]

No kidding, there is so much negativity sometimes in these gatherings, that one with a 'higher vibration' feels like trapped in quick sand... :dizzy:

who ?

I don't know what church you frequent but of course if you can't stand or stomach the attention given to Jesus Christ then attending churches might not be your thing

[Wings]

[/COLOR]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth. Son's head looks a bit precariously sat up on shoulders so mum scurries over to Jerusalem and -----tah dah the very place the rebel-chief-cum-hero was born! Oh and here are pieces of the real cross! Oh look at that - this is the very spot where he fell with the cross! Phew! Son makes cozy with the christ crazies who've become the go-to cult for the oppressed. Did Rome oppress....um? And bingo, not a sun is born, but a whole new way to lie to the people is born.

How can you be so sure this is a 'myth'?

Please define your idea of 'myth'.[COLOR="red"]

Please don't turn this into a discussion about semantics. You referred to "the myth". My question was and remains: how can you be so sure this (Constantine and his mother's story) is myth?

[truthseekerdan]

No kidding, there is so much negativity sometimes in these gatherings, that one with a 'higher vibration' feels like trapped in quick sand... :dizzy:

who ?

I don't know what church you frequent but of course if you can't stand or stomach the attention given to Jesus Christ then attending churches might not be your thing

Hi Red, I had a feeling that you're going to misquote my post... :p

Jesus the Christ was not about 'attention' to himself that is the 'human ego-mind' set of yesterday and today still. Jesus is about love and understanding to one another, not to self as the religions, dogmas, etc, mostly teach. Fight, fight because we are right...

[Wings]

let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

That's a bit pointless because if I give you one that says negative stuff about Constantine you'll just over ride it with the polished Christian version.

Wasn't Constantine a mighty warrior who prayed for help to defeat his brother in law?

Did the r/c church not start 300 years after the death of Jesus?

Isn't the church responsible for the inquisition and thousands upon thousands of murders?
Didn't Jesus say to love each other?
(and, ironically, the god the church was (apparently) worshipping commanded 'thou shalt not kill')

Isn't the r/c church the richest in the world?
Didn't Jesus say to the rich man that if he wanted to follow him he must give away his wealth?

See - it just doesn't sit right. I guess as a Chrisitan you are bound to have to accept the whole - but I really don't understand how you can reconcile the hypocrisy and be comforatble with it.

I too would like to see your sources about Constantine. Whatever he may have been (and only a few today could know, other than the soul himself and those who knew/know him), they were not responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths; surely not.

Isn't it best not to be loyal to either side of the argument, if one wants the truth? The hypocrisy of the church is known to many christened catholics. Many DO NOT reconcile with it, but neither do they place the blame for what has occurred down through the ages on to one person, nor do they throw away all the teachings of the church because of this.

[RedeZra]

Jesus the Christ was not about 'attention' to himself that is the 'human ego-mind' set of yesterday and today still. Jesus is about love and understanding to one another, not to self as the religions, dogmas, etc, mostly teach. Fight, fight because we are right...

the Church preaches what the Christ teaches

so to keep His life and legacy alive in the minds of men

and not stacked away between the covers of a Book

collecting dust upon a shelf

[truthseekerdan]

Jesus the Christ was not about 'attention' to himself that is the 'human ego-mind' set of yesterday and today still. Jesus is about love and understanding to one another, not to self as the religions, dogmas, etc, mostly teach. Fight, fight because we are right...

the Church preaches what the Christ teaches

so to keep His life and legacy alive in the minds of men

and not stacked away between the covers of a Book

collecting dust upon a shelf

Christ teachings are received in one's open heart to the 'Higher Spirit' (Self) -- the One that is also known by the name of "Holy Spirit'.

You are the Church or Temple, as well as everyone else. Not a building or an institution...

Read more from the Bible 'so it wont collect dust': 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%203:16-17&version=NKJV)

[RedeZra]

Christ teachings are received in one's open heart to the 'Higher Spirit' (Self) -- the One that is also known by the name of "Holy Spirit'.

You are the Church or Temple, as well as everyone else. Not a building or an institution...


Yes but if the churches didn't preach the teachings in the communities all around the world then you would not hear it nor receive it

[TWINCANS]

[/COLOR]

And let's not forget Constantine and his mum's additions to the myth. Son's head looks a bit precariously sat up on shoulders so mum scurries over to Jerusalem and -----tah dah the very place the rebel-chief-cum-hero was born! Oh and here are pieces of the real cross! Oh look at that - this is the very spot where he fell with the cross! Phew! Son makes cozy with the christ crazies who've become the go-to cult for the oppressed. Did Rome oppress....um? And bingo, not a sun is born, but a whole new way to lie to the people is born.

How can you be so sure this is a 'myth'?

Please define your idea of 'myth'.[COLOR="red"]

Please don't turn this into a discussion about semantics. You referred to "the myth". My question was and remains: how can you be so sure this (Constantine and his mother's story) is myth?


I said Christianity is a myth.

Joseph Campbell recognized expert on world mythology, defines myth as follows "A one sentence definition of mythology? "Mythology" is what we call someone else's religion”

[truthseekerdan]

Christ teachings are received in one's open heart to the 'Higher Spirit' (Self) -- the One that is also known by the name of "Holy Spirit'.

You are the Church or Temple, as well as everyone else. Not a building or an institution...


Yes but if the churches didn't preach the teachings in the communities all around the world then you would not hear it nor receive it



If you're talking about churches as an institution (buildings, congregations, etc.). They're talking (preaching in this case to masses) about something lets call it 'good' for now, but if not living what they're talking about as an example to follow -- what 'good' does it do?

We're talking about these institutions that are no different than any other non religious self-service businesses fixated on money, ego-mind, and hypocrisy. Therefore the religions of today are all about control and power, not spiritual pursuit and real knowledge...

We are 'off topic' on this thread unfortunately, if you want to continue on this topic I think that this thread is more appropriate:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3079-Spirituality-vs-Religion

Have to go now, I'll be available later... :love:

[TWINCANS]

let me see your sources about Constantine ; )

That's a bit pointless because if I give you one that says negative stuff about Constantine you'll just over ride it with the polished Christian version.

Wasn't Constantine a mighty warrior who prayed for help to defeat his brother in law?

Did the r/c church not start 300 years after the death of Jesus?

Isn't the church responsible for the inquisition and thousands upon thousands of murders?
Didn't Jesus say to love each other?
(and, ironically, the god the church was (apparently) worshipping commanded 'thou shalt not kill')

Isn't the r/c church the richest in the world?
Didn't Jesus say to the rich man that if he wanted to follow him he must give away his wealth?

See - it just doesn't sit right. I guess as a Chrisitan you are bound to have to accept the whole - but I really don't understand how you can reconcile the hypocrisy and be comforatble with it.

I too would like to see your sources about Constantine. Whatever he may have been (and only a few today could know, other than the soul himself and those who knew/know him), they were not responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths; surely not.

Isn't it best not to be loyal to either side of the argument, if one wants the truth? The hypocrisy of the church is known to many christened catholics. Many DO NOT reconcile with it, but neither do they place the blame for what has occurred down through the ages on to one person, nor do they throw away all the teachings of the church because of this.

"Constantine, born in 274 to Constantius and a mere concubine Helena, should not have been eligible for Imperial honors. He won his consecration by the sword. Twice married, he murdered Crispus, his son by his first wife, in 326. He had his second wife drowned in the bath; killed his 11 yr old nephew, then his brother-in-law, after giving him assurances of safe conduct under oath. He never ceased to be a hard-nosed politician with a terrible lust for power," by (former priest) Peter de Rosa, Vicars of Christ, The Dark Side of the Papacy.

Sounds like a real stand up guy, that Constantine. Some founder. Fascinating about Constantine throwing a hissy fit because he was not privy to the Mysteries. That about says it. The church has no info, just lots of secrets, bags of money and a long lineage of pedophilic priests.

About Constantine, there are so many references, including the Vatican Encyclopedia itself that questions the nails, along with the fact that Eusebius of Caesarea a contemporary author does not make reference to Helen finding the True Cross. There are also many accounts of Constantine's brutality in forcing Christianity to 'take hold' among pagans who were 97% of the population BTW.

He paid the bishops MONEY to come to Nicea, slammed together Mithras' birthday Dec 25th, Isis & Horus for Mary & Jesus, changed the Jewish sabbath to the Roman Sol Invictus' Sun Day, listened to his mother Helen's concerns that if reincarnation was true then she would be is deep sh.... for all her wrongdoings, and issued numerous harsh edicts that resulted in brutal baptism practices, entrenched anti-feminism and ended gnosticism. As he first set the precedent that popes can change the word of god, subsequent popes have made over 200 changes.

The truth is out there, just look. Don't only read the 'good book' if you want to find out about religion.
Another one to check out is 'AD 381. Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State' by Charles Freeman about Theodocius, another great guy.
Also 'Christianity. How the Church Has Exploited the Myth of Christ' by Malcolm Brocklehurst.
etc etc

While religion may be the opiate of the masses, and each to his own drug of choice I would normally say, religious fundamentalism both Christian and Muslim, is IMHO the single biggest obstacle to the raising of consciousness on the earthplane. Needs to be over.

[sshenry]

Didn't your god create the tribes and nations after the tower of babel so that the various groups couldn't work together again?

According to the biblical account of babel, there was a period of united humanity after the Great Flood. Evereyone spoke the same language and moved together to the land of Shinar (which supposedly was in Mesopotamia - now Iraq). Still united they decided to build a city with its "top in the heavens" so that they would not be scattered again; unknowledgeable of what they had paid such a high price to protect maintain (the knowledge brought with them on the ark). Note: The tower with its top in the heavens wasn't necessarily a tower that towered INTO the heavens, but most likely a ziggarut - which had the information they wanted to protect inscribed on its top (there have been some found with inscriptions of contellations etc). Which would most likely mean that the information they wanted to preserve was of a cosmological nature - and very possibly a warning/prediction/observation of how to avoid or when to expect another catastrophe like the one they had survived.

Only problem is, God (the god of the old testament) saw what they were doing and didn't like it. "They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withholden from them which they purpose to do." So he said ""come, let us go down and confound their speech." (always wondered who the "us" was) and he did so and with communications broken down the united humanity broke off into groups that could understand each other and wandered off to live together (all of this taken from Genesis 11:5-8 by the way).

This right here tells you a lot about the god that the bible proposes that we worship. A god jealous of humanity's ability to work together and achieve anything they put their minds to - especially if it would prevent mistakes (possibly the same mistakes made pre-flood) from happening again isn't so much a god as a very dangerous entity who is seeking to control humanity for his/its (their) own purposes.

The very fact that "god" requires you to submit yourself to him (when you are by nature a divine being working within a human body) shows that he/it/they want control of your freewill.

[Teakai]

there is so much mis- and disinfo out there so please let me see your sources in black n white ; )

I don't recall the titles of the books, it was a few years ago that I read them - but they weren't Chrisitan mainstream books - more along the lines of "Jesus the heretic", but can we both agree on this and the hypocrisy involved:

Constantine was a powerful ruler who prayed for help to defeat his brother in law.

The r/c church began 300 years after the death of Jesus.

The church is responsible for the inquisition and thousands upon thousands of murders.
Jesus said to love each other.
(the god the church was (apparently) worshipping commanded 'thou shalt not kill')

The r/c church is the richest in the world.
Jesus said to the rich man that if he wanted to follow him he must give away his wealth.

If there's something here which you see as being false, let me know.

[Teakai]

That's part of it for sure. But there was much more. I mentioned Pythagorus earlier. Where did he go to school and for how long? Finding that out gives you some idea of the profundity of the 'lost' teachings.[COLOR="red"]



He attended the mystery schools in Egypt - it takes the initiates years to get through. Jesus aparently was also a student of the mystery schools. Possibly what he was doing for those missing years.

Now they got an education.

[Teakai]

Oh no we're not done, not by a long shot. We haven't even begun to ask where the original Egyptian religion came from.[COLOR="red"]


One book I read said it was from Atlantis.

[Teakai]

I too would like to see your sources about Constantine. Whatever he may have been (and only a few today could know, other than the soul himself and those who knew/know him), they were not responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths; surely not.

Isn't it best not to be loyal to either side of the argument, if one wants the truth? The hypocrisy of the church is known to many christened catholics. Many DO NOT reconcile with it, but neither do they place the blame for what has occurred down through the ages on to one person, nor do they throw away all the teachings of the church because of this.

The inquisition was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.

I'm not loyal to any side of the argument. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy and I can't overlook it in order to make myself accept something.

I'm also not using blame - it is what it is - blame is irrelevent.

Re: Constantine - he had a secretary who kept minutes on what Constantine was up to - I think they may be found online. I say his actions are a pretty good indicator on his practising what Jesus said was the most important commandment.

The teachings and the practises of the church vary somewhat to the teachings of Jesus.

[Teakai]

Jesus the Christ was not about 'attention' to himself that is the 'human ego-mind' set of yesterday and today still. Jesus is about love and understanding to one another, not to self as the religions, dogmas, etc, mostly teach. Fight, fight because we are right...

the Church preaches what the Christ teaches

so to keep His life and legacy alive in the minds of men

and not stacked away between the covers of a Book

collecting dust upon a shelf

Might preach it, but does it practise it?

God's law is written in the hearts of men - they don't require adopting a religion for that.

Take you for example, Redezra - looking at what you write you seem to have embraced being a Christian as a package deal. You have identified with a manufactured product.

Truth is everywhere - it is ego illusion to identify oneself with a religion. Christ and ego are opposites to each other. What a trap.

[RedeZra]

Take you for example, Redezra - looking at what you write you seem to have embraced being a Christian as a package deal. You have identified with a manufactured product.


I am not of any particular religion as I recognize the Divinity in Krishna Buddha Christ etc

Christianity has been divided and diverted because of the work of the Adversary


if you don't know it the Adversary is the Eye of the PTB ; )


they have the power to twist and suppress facts and truths and distort history in the minds of the naive and gullible

by just telling outright lies and change the facts


take the Holocaust for instance

the PTB has the power to insert that in our history books... but did it really happen ?

[Teakai]

I am not of any particular religion as I recognize the Divinity in Krishna Buddha Christ etc

Christianity has been divided and diverted because of the work of the Adversary


if you don't know it the Adversary is the Eye of the PTB ; )


they have the power to twist and suppress facts and truths and distort history in the minds of the naive and gullible

by just telling outright lies and change the facts


take the Holocaust for instance

the PTB has the power to insert that in our history books... but did it really happen ?





I agree, Redezra - and doesn't the same apply to religion?

Those who would control humanity have been around for a long time.

[RedeZra]

I agree, Redezra - and doesn't the same apply to religion?

Those who would control humanity have been around for a long time.

even the religions of Divine beings can only last so long before it's attacked and subverted by the enemies of Divinity

there are powerful infernal spirits at work here which have even started their own religions both in ancient and modern times


so we need to employ extreme discernment and research to see the difference between

the legacy of Divinity and the legacy of infernal spirits

[Teakai]

even the religions of Divine beings can only last so long before it's attacked and subverted by the enemies of Divinity

there are powerful infernal spirits at work here which have even started their own religions both in ancient and modern times


so we need to employ extreme discernment and research to see the difference between

the legacy of Divinity and the legacy of infernal spirits

[/I]

All we need to do is look into our own heart. If a religion is an organised religion, then you can bet it's already been infiltrated.

Truth is not the possession of something other than ourselves.

Man, know thyself.
One already has all the requirements for that. No religion necessary.

[MoSh187]

I don't agree with any slaughter in the name of Christianity. In the Gnostic Texts Jesus despised the god of the old testament because of this. Whatever happened to "Thous shall not kill?" and "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword" <--- word's spoken by Jesus to a man who was willing to defend Jesus with violence... (at least that's how it happened in the movie anyway :P)

[RedeZra]

All we need to do is look into our own heart. If a religion is an organised religion, then you can bet it's already been infiltrated.

Truth is not the possession of something other than ourselves.

Man, know thyself.
One already has all the requirements for that. No religion necessary.

the time will come again when humanity will be in touch with it's heart and know without being told

now we might think that we're in touch but then we will know ; )

[RedeZra]

In the Gnostic Texts Jesus despised the god of the old testament because of this.

the PTB is suppressing this fact that God destroyed the Giants ; )

[Teakai]

the time will come again when humanity will be in touch with it's heart and know without being told

now we might think that we're in touch but then we will know ; )

Maybe that time is now.



the time will come again when humanity will be in touch with it's heart and know without being told

now we might think that we're in touch but then we will know ; )

But you know what - there's nothing to be done about that. All one has the power to do is to know themselves.

Anything less is based on faith - which means it may well be misguided.

Just to say - I do get it with the enities - this is a spiritual journey. But that is life - it's not religion. We've been conned into thinking life is something else.

[RedeZra]

But you know what - there's nothing to be done about that. All one has the power to do is to know themselves.

Anything less is based on faith.

no no experience and evidence ; )

yes you're right

[Teakai]

But you know what - there's nothing to be done about that. All one has the power to do is to know themselves.

Anything less is based on faith.

no no experience and evidence ; )

yes you're right

If it's based on experience and evidence - then it's not faith.


(not quite sure what you're saying in right about :) )

[RedeZra]

If it's based on experience and evidence - then it's not faith.


(not quite sure what you're saying in right about :) )

hehe you're right

one has only oneself to work with in the quest for truth ; )

[Teakai]

If it's based on experience and evidence - then it's not faith.


(not quite sure what you're saying in right about :) )

hehe you're right

one has only oneself to work with in the quest for truth ; )

Well, that's not necessarily true :) . One can read information, one can read the experiences of others and the messages they have - but when it all boils down to it it is only for the aim of leading us to the truth within us.

As the Buddha said (paraphrased) learning is a raft - when you get where you're going you don't carry the raft around on your back.

[TWINCANS]

That's part of it for sure. But there was much more. I mentioned Pythagorus earlier. Where did he go to school and for how long? Finding that out gives you some idea of the profundity of the 'lost' teachings.[COLOR="red"]



He attended the mystery schools in Egypt - it takes the initiates years to get through. Jesus aparently was also a student of the mystery schools. Possibly what he was doing for those missing years.

Now they got an education.


Yes, Pythagoras was initiated into the full mysteries and was made a full priest. No mean feat in that it took him 27 years to complete his education.

Think about that - 27 years. He delved into the music of the spheres, the way the building blocks of all creation rest on higher mathematics, the power of sound, of colour, of geometric form to pull divine energies into the 3D world in front of our verry eyes. Not to mention the 12 sets of opposites in the human consition etc. etc.

Christianity offers one guy, believe that and you're fine.

In fact Pythagoras is the missing link between the wisdom of the Egyptian mystery schools and the Greeks, and thereafter to our civilization. Too bad he followed the old idea of 'pearls before swine' and didn't openly share what he knew.


Jesus was schooled in Heliopolis, where many Jews lived at the time, but not initiated into the full mystery schools. He knew there was more to learn and left his family to explore. The 18 lost years in his life story are in part explained in a book found in a Tibetan monastery called The Life of Saint Issa... he became a wandering hippie-type meditator. He learned from the Jains, and the Tibetans. The now-missing manuscript is described in 'The Jesus Mystery' by Janet Bock.

There's another point here. Why do we forget that Cleopatra's daughters lived in Palestine and had children? Why do we not credit Pontius Pilate with some sense when he admitted that Jeshua ben Joseph was the king of the jews? Maybe he was. And maybe he was interested in his birthright on earth as much as in the etheric realms?

¤=[Post Update]=¤




Oh no we're not done, not by a long shot. We haven't even begun to ask where the original Egyptian religion came from.[COLOR="red"]


One book I read said it was from Atlantis.

That's what I remember.

[Teakai]

Jesus was schooled in Heliopolis, where many Jews lived at the time, but not initiated into the full mystery schools. He knew there was more to learn and left his family too explore. The 18 lost years in his life story are in part explained in a book found in a Tibetan monastery called The Story of Saint Issa... he became a wandering hippie-type meditator. He learned from the Jains, and the Tibetans.

There's another point here. Why do we forget that Cleopatra's daughters lived in Palestine and had children? Why do we not credit Pontius Pilate with some sense when he admitted that Jeshua ben Joseph was the king of the jews? Maybe he was. And maybe he was interested in his birthright on earth as much as in the etheric realms?[COLOR="red"]


Trying to dig up the true history of Jesus is just too hard. Too many ifs and buts and maybes - and prior to Christianity - if we are to believe what we are told - he was simply a poor carpenter- so who would keep records?
Then again - according to another history he is the bloodline of King David.

Was there really a Jesus. Was Jesus really Caesarian, did he die on the cross, did he go to India?
Did the invention of Jesus (and the great historic scam) really take place in the 14th century as according to Anatoly Fomenko?

That we believe Jesus existed is only important to the church who has built their fortune on him.
Some of the messages attributed to Jesus is what's relevant.
And the truths are truths no matter who utters them.

[TWINCANS]

Jesus was schooled in Heliopolis, where many Jews lived at the time, but not initiated into the full mystery schools. He knew there was more to learn and left his family too explore. The 18 lost years in his life story are in part explained in a book found in a Tibetan monastery called The Story of Saint Issa... he became a wandering hippie-type meditator. He learned from the Jains, and the Tibetans.

There's another point here. Why do we forget that Cleopatra's daughters lived in Palestine and had children? Why do we not credit Pontius Pilate with some sense when he admitted that Jeshua ben Joseph was the king of the jews? Maybe he was. And maybe he was interested in his birthright on earth as much as in the etheric realms?[COLOR="red"]


Trying to dig up the true history of Jesus is just too hard. Too many ifs and buts and maybes - and prior to Christianity - if we are to believe what we are told - he was simply a poor carpenter- so who would keep records?
Then again - according to another history he is the bloodline of King David.

Was there really a Jesus. Was Jesus really Caesarian, did he die on the cross, did he go to India?
Did the invention of Jesus (and the great historic scam) really take place in the 14th century as according to Anatoly Fomenko?

That we believe Jesus existed is only important to the church who has built their fortune on him.
Some of the messages attributed to Jesus is what's relevant.
And the truths are truths no matter who utters them.

I also heard that there were at the time in Jerusalem 24 men by the name of Jesus. Which one are we talking about? As to the King David bloodline, I read that it's Mary his mother who's important. She's from the line of Aaron, and with his father being from the Levite line, he (and his brother James and his cousin John the Baptist - who was the first 'saviour' proposed until he was beheaded - join the civil kingship line with the hereditary priesthood line. Who knows? Who cares? This is politics from 2000 years ago, for pete's sake and we're still debating it? We have our own silly politics to worry about. Or not.

I really do not think the family were simple carpenters. IMHO.

How can we take any of it as Truth , founded on nothing but lies as it is? How can we believe what is attributed vs what is fabricated for power?
I agree that there are too many if, ands and buts. The rc church has destroyed the records, plain and simple. Read Theodocious - the laws against curioso, being curious. This organization is founded on power, money, brutality and secrecy. As stated, time for it all to be history.

[RedeZra]

If it's based on experience and evidence - then it's not faith.


(not quite sure what you're saying in right about :) )

hehe you're right

one has only oneself to work with in the quest for truth ; )

Well, that's not necessarily true :) . One can read information, one can read the experiences of others and the messages they have - but when it all boils down to it it is only for the aim of leading us to the truth within us.


of course it is oneself who must pick and choose

what to trust and what to trash


the seeker on the quest for truth must eventually throw away the trash else the seeker will become a walking talking garbage bin


it's not always easy to discern between truths and trash

as it takes many lifetimes filled with experience practise trial and errors


but if the seeker is honest and righteous upon this journey back to Self

then Self will guard one's back and point to the path ahead

at every crossroads ; )

[Teakai]

of course it is oneself who must pick and choose

what to trust and what to trash


the seeker on the quest for truth must eventually throw away the trash else the seeker will become a walking talking garbage bin


it's not always easy to discern between truths and trash

as it takes many lifetimes filled with experience practise trial and errors


but if the seeker is honest and righteous upon this journey back to Self

then Self will guard one's back and point to the path ahead

at every crossroads ; )

True.
And in regard to organised religion the evidence and the contradictions contained there-in would expose much of it as trash and some of it as truth.

[RedeZra]

True.
And in regard to organised religion the evidence and the contradictions contained there-in would expose much of it as trash and some of it as truth.

I am adamant in that Jesus Christ is a valid Name for the nameless Self or Spirit within

and I am grateful to the churches that have kept His legacy alive in the minds of men


the Antagonist of the historical Jesus is still alive and has been incessant in his attacks on Christianity from the get go... and sometimes Christianity struck back


the Adversary cannot afford that humanity lives the message of Jesus Christ

as that would render Satan helpless in spite of all his powers

[Teakai]

I am adamant in that Jesus Christ is a valid Name for the nameless Self or Spirit within

and I am grateful to the churches that have kept His legacy alive in the minds of men


the Antagonist of the historical Jesus is still alive and has been incessant in his attacks on Christianity from the get go... and sometimes Christianity struck back


the Adversary cannot afford that humanity lives the message of Jesus Christ

as that would render Satan helpless in spite of all his powers

I agree to a point, but it seems to me that organised religion (am thinking Christianity in this case) has done far more to destroy that knowledge than preserve it. By presenting the kryst(Christ) as a person and not as that which lies within all men.
The Christian church has removed this knowledge from men and put it outside themselves.

[Wings]

Joseph Campbell recognized expert on world mythology, defines myth as follows "A one sentence definition of mythology? "Mythology" is what we call someone else's religion”

“Someone else’s religion” might just turn out to be THE truth.


About Constantine, there are so many references, including the Vatican Encyclopedia itself that questions the nails, along with the fact that Eusebius of Caesarea a contemporary author does not make reference to Helen finding the True Cross.

The truth is out there, just look. Don't only read the 'good book' if you want to find out about religion.

While religion may be the opiate of the masses, and each to his own drug of choice I would normally say, religious fundamentalism both Christian and Muslim, is IMHO the single biggest obstacle to the raising of consciousness on the earthplane. Needs to be over.

I have read that the historian Socrates Scholasticus questioned Eusebius’ style and selection of facts in his writings about Constantine, which was apparently also unfinished at the time of his death. Perhaps this may be why no reference was made to Helen finding the cross.
Have antiquity experts investigated to ‘verify’ that the ‘surviving’ nails and pieces of the cross are not (or are) what has been claimed?

Often history is just a battleground of ideas/stories where people fight against each other for the truth. Some ideas become disguised as truth, while others proffered as impossibilities and fables are truth.
The Trojan War story is one story that frequently falls into the category of MYTH - someone else’s religion by Campbell’s definition - but it happened. I was there, so I know.

The truth is indeed out there .... not necessarily found in stone; or in a book, even one written by an ‘expert’.

I am not very familiar with the “the book”, nor do I have a religion.
I’m not sure that religion is the opiate of the masses. It seems to me there are many more who prefer opiates/drugs as their religious therapy .... soul numbing stuff.

A lack of unconditional love is the single biggest obstacle to the raising of consciousness.

[RedeZra]

I agree to a point, but it seems to me that organised religion (am thinking Christianity in this case) has done far more to destroy that knowledge than preserve it. By presenting the kryst(Christ) as a person and not as that which lies within all men.
The Christian church has removed this knowledge from men and put it outside themselves.

the Catholic Church presents Christ as the Spirit within in the Eucharist ; )

[Intraphase]

I agree to a point, but it seems to me that organised religion (am thinking Christianity in this case) has done far more to destroy that knowledge than preserve it. By presenting the kryst(Christ) as a person and not as that which lies within all men.
The Christian church has removed this knowledge from men and put it outside themselves.

the Catholic Church presents Christ as the Spirit within in the Eucharist ; )


If creation is a system of operations and operators of creative tools then certain indexes and classifications would exist to search out tool boxes and tool sets.



The Book of Enoch unlocks the technical aspects of The Bible.

Pure Self - Chosen One - Red in Black - The Child - Old Testament God
Full Self - Lord of Spirits - Orange in Black - The Teenager - New Testament
True Self - Head of Days - Yellow in Black - Son of Man - Earth as Clock
Full Self - Lord of Ages - Green in White - Holy Ghost - Earth as Eternal Court
Natural Self - Most High Holy - Blue in White - The Divine Circuit as The Way

Then the Bible speaks of creation a second time.

Eternal Self - Pure Momentum - Black Vs White - Adult Creators in Motion
Immortal Self - All Self Balanced - Red Vs Blue - Adult Creator as Clock-Library


Each being who visits Earth is The Original Mold.
The Original Mold can seek non-existence but can not erase their Other Clocks.


Relevant Summary.

The God of The Old Testament is a child who grew up.
Yet he is still a exuberant child who has many "older" selfs.
They love him dearly as Their Origin as does Original Jesus.
You are now serving as a child god to your "others" out there.
As a child god... Well... Hows that workin out for ya?????????



The Clock called Earth has a long history of 4 billion years reverse and forward.
You are at the crossroads of your own historical "Monument Of Moments" rendering unto your others creations judgement from within The Eternal Court inside The Eternal Clock. By mutual agreement only is this day called 06-05-11.
Because for all the speculative analysis available somebody cleaned the clock.


The Chosen One - Origin Point.
The God of The Old Testament.
Noise Pollution Test Zone Video - 0:03 - 0:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K7CNzFhnCE

The Lord of Spirits - Bodyguard
The God of The New Testament
Carries The Chosen One on his Back
"Get yea behind me Satan-Momentum" to 1979

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6flXRCLPS0


The Head of Days
A Records Keeper Clock Builder
Receives The Records of Malfunctions & Corrections
Pulls The First One & First Two out of momentum system circuitry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRh14w2qtcE

"The Son of Man shall comes as a thief in the night"
The Lord of Ages - Whole Self as Inner Dialogues of 1-2-3
A Librarian for The All Clock makers. A Prime Circuit War-Den.
Returns from Creations Border to rescue Clocks from Self Destruction
Those clocks determined to self destruct are allowed and their others rescued.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOESyEljmFE&list=PL43E9D2527AF80A93
The Son of Man bridges backwards: Rachael Exits with 1-2-3 AS 4 In 1.

Natural Self - Most High Holy - The First Border.
The Origin Clock Stops 07-07-1979 4:15 AM EST
The Clock roams the One Infinite One until it finds The Chosen One.
The Chosen One re-enters the clock effects repairs and returns to sleep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0uqLM1uj_k
The Chosen One laughs at his detractors and his attractors.
The Natural Most High Holy whistles a happy little tune too


Eternal Self - Pure Momentum - Black Vs White - Adult Creators in Motion
Immortal Self - All Self Balanced - Red Vs Blue - Adult Creators as Clock-Library

Life goes on and space cowboys will be space cowboys & gangsters of love.
The Creator appears at 1:59 - In The Very Darkest Midnight Hour of Aloneness.
The Everything - A Thank You Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up11CpSBx3Y&feature=relmfu



The Creator 1AS7 prays for his creations every day, do you pray for your 1,000,000 creations every day or do they wander the universe searching.

"Judge not lest yea be judged for the power of The Word is instantaneous"

So!!!

"Good night to you moonlight lady boys. Rock a bye sweet baby King James."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2EZUw2mvjs

I believe in The Dream
I believe in The Dreamers
I believe in The Dreams they Dream.

If it happens here it already happened out there.
Each human clock is The One to 1,000,000 Others minimum.
-----------

People got bored with "Egyptian Book of Gates."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/gate/index.htm
I think it is as good tool as any other tool set but low sales volume.
The Chosen One hopes others can learn from his Books of Life records.

Because those who don't learn from history......
Now saddle up and go round up some doggies or fix a fence.

[Teakai]

I agree to a point, but it seems to me that organised religion (am thinking Christianity in this case) has done far more to destroy that knowledge than preserve it. By presenting the kryst(Christ) as a person and not as that which lies within all men.
The Christian church has removed this knowledge from men and put it outside themselves.

the Catholic Church presents Christ as the Spirit within in the Eucharist ; )

My point exactly.
Christ/Kryst is to be found within - and not by eating a piece of bread and drinking some wine. How deceptive is that? All to keep people trapped in their minds, dependent upon the church for their 'salvation.' and forking out dollars.

[Teakai]

“Someone else’s religion” might just turn out to be THE truth.


If we are all souls having a human existence - then there is no true religion - it is life. You can't seperate yourself from it it. It's a whole and it all counts.

Loving unconditionally isn't something one holds back for Sundays and holy days :)

[Teakai]

Each being who visits Earth is The Original Mold.
The Original Mold can seek non-existence but can not erase their Other Clocks.


Relevant Summary.

The God of The Old Testament is a child who grew up.
Yet he is still a exuberant child who has many "older" selfs.
They love him dearly as Their Origin as does Original Jesus.
You are now serving as a child god to your "others" out there.
As a child god... Well... Hows that workin out for ya?????????



I guess it depends on one's definition and understanding of what is God.
If everything is God and everywhere is God - and we're all Gods already and dogs are Gods and cats are Gods and the animals we slaughter and eat are Gods, the animals we pen up in a zoo are Gods.

Looking about at the world today it is evident that God can be a total sh*t.
But if God is unconditional love - then there must be another God.

So - what is God - something or nothing or everything or just some bits?

[RedeZra]

My point exactly.
Christ/Kryst is to be found within - and not by eating a piece of bread and drinking some wine. How deceptive is that? All to keep people trapped in their minds, dependent upon the church for their 'salvation.' and forking out dollars.


the living Christ is within the bread and the wine and everything else

Christ is the unified Spirit beyond all conscious comprehension


so we cannot hope to understand this Spirit within but we can experience It's presence ; )

[Teakai]

the living Christ is within the bread and the wine and everything else

Christ is the unified Spirit beyond all conscious comprehension

so we cannot hope to understand this Spirit within but we can experience It's presence ; )

And how is that accomplished by a ritual of eating bread and drinking wine?

Bit of a mixed message there.

Of course the church doesn't really show us how to access Christ/Kryst consciousness because people would no longer need the church. They'd lose their power. They'd go broke. It'd be a whole new world.

From the gospel of Thomas. 102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."

[MoSh187]

the whole earth being Isreal... that sounds a bit like NWO. Bible said that the world will see Jerusalem as a cup of trembling... and what is the world today? A cup of trembling.
don't mind me... I'm just planting seeds.

qZAbKmmpYOo

[RedeZra]

the living Christ is within the bread and the wine and everything else

Christ is the unified Spirit beyond all conscious comprehension

so we cannot hope to understand this Spirit within but we can experience It's presence ; )

And how is that accomplished by a ritual of eating bread and drinking wine?


this rite is about remembrance and communion with the Spirit within

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities ; )

[Teakai]

this rite is about remembrance and communion with the Spirit within

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities ; )

Yes, it's all rites and rituals - but next to nothing of true spiritual substance.

Why do you think the church does not reveal to us the real spiritual truth?

[RedeZra]

Yes, it's all rites and rituals - but next to nothing of true spiritual substance.


so you don't understand what I just wrote


tell me what is you're idea of spiritual substance ?

[Teakai]

Yes, it's all rites and rituals - but next to nothing of true spiritual substance.


so you don't understand what I just wrote


tell me what is you're idea of spiritual substance ?


I did understand what you wrote - what I don't understand is how a ritual of eating bread and drinking wine is necessary to the`remembrance and communion with the Spirit within."

It's a bit of a brush off, really.

My idea about spiritual substance is showing us the truth of our own spiritual beingness. That the reality/essence of our being is that we are the spirit/kryst and not illusory ego perception.

Why don't they tell us that out straight? Why do they hide the reality beneath illusion and deception?

No one would find the translation of the truths within the Christian religion unless they had looked in other places first - or unless someone with the knowledge explained the message to them. By itself the Christian religion is a mine field of spiritual traps and cover ups.

[TWINCANS]

Joseph Campbell recognized expert on world mythology, defines myth as follows "A one sentence definition of mythology? "Mythology" is what we call someone else's religion”

“Someone else’s religion” might just turn out to be THE truth.


About Constantine, there are so many references, including the Vatican Encyclopedia itself that questions the nails, along with the fact that Eusebius of Caesarea a contemporary author does not make reference to Helen finding the True Cross.

The truth is out there, just look. Don't only read the 'good book' if you want to find out about religion.

While religion may be the opiate of the masses, and each to his own drug of choice I would normally say, religious fundamentalism both Christian and Muslim, is IMHO the single biggest obstacle to the raising of consciousness on the earthplane. Needs to be over.

I have read that the historian Socrates Scholasticus questioned Eusebius’ style and selection of facts in his writings about Constantine, which was apparently also unfinished at the time of his death. Perhaps this may be why no reference was made to Helen finding the cross.
Have antiquity experts investigated to ‘verify’ that the ‘surviving’ nails and pieces of the cross are not (or are) what has been claimed?

Often history is just a battleground of ideas/stories where people fight against each other for the truth. Some ideas become disguised as truth, while others proffered as impossibilities and fables are truth.
The Trojan War story is one story that frequently falls into the category of MYTH - someone else’s religion by Campbell’s definition - but it happened. I was there, so I know.

The truth is indeed out there .... not necessarily found in stone; or in a book, even one written by an ‘expert’.

I am not very familiar with the “the book”, nor do I have a religion.
I’m not sure that religion is the opiate of the masses. It seems to me there are many more who prefer opiates/drugs as their religious therapy .... soul numbing stuff.

A lack of unconditional love is the single biggest obstacle to the raising of consciousness.

The Trojan War is now accepted as fact due to archelogical proof. But I'm always glad to hear someone else say they have past life remembrances too.

As to your already non-involvement and non-attachment to 'the book' or man-made organized religion, I think that's what is being encouraged by some posters here, me included. So we're good.

[RedeZra]

Yes, it's all rites and rituals - but next to nothing of true spiritual substance.


so you don't understand what I just wrote


tell me what is you're idea of spiritual substance ?


I did understand what you wrote - what I don't understand is how a ritual of eating bread and drinking wine is necessary to the`remembrance and communion with the Spirit within."



ponder this while baking brownies

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities

I like mine with cream ; )

[Teakai]

ponder this while baking brownies

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities

I like mine with cream ; )

By evil priests who wish to trap souls in the material realm. Yummy. :)

I'll have pizza.

[RedeZra]

ponder this while baking brownies

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities

I like mine with cream ; )

By evil priests who wish to trap souls in the material realm. Yummy. :)



by Christ of course ; )

[Teakai]

ponder this while baking brownies

whatever food we eat it is infused with Spirit and in the Eucharist the bread and the wine is sanctified with a spiritual boost with much healing propensities

I like mine with cream ; )

By evil priests who wish to trap souls in the material realm. Yummy. :)



by Christ of course ; )

The only way that it might work is if people actually truly believed the bread and wine was the actual blood and body of Christ. But it would just be a placebo, because it's not actually the blood and body of Christ, is it?

If you are going to come back and say that Christ is in everything - then they could as well lick a rock and expect healing.

[RedeZra]

The only way that it might work is if people actually truly believed the bread and wine was the actual blood and body of Christ. But it would just be a placebo, because it's not actually the blood and body of Christ, is it?

If you are going to come back and say that Christ is in everything - then they could as well lick a rock and expect healing.

the whole universe is the body of the unified Spirit within

and in a sanctified rite as the Eucharist the bread and the wine is given a special attention and a spiritual boost by the Christ within

so that everybody who partakes of it will be benefited whether they believe or not ; )

[Teakai]

the whole universe is the body of the unified Spirit within

and in a sanctified rite as the Eucharist the bread and the wine is given a special attention and a spiritual boost by the Christ within

so that everybody who partakes of it will be benefited whether they believe or not ; )


You believe everyone who partakes will be benefited, but that is an assumption which is unable to be measured in any conclusive way, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

Let's try reincarnation.
Why has that knowledge been supressed by the church?


(I'll be back tomorrow - time for bed.)

[conk]

Religion, as your friend understands it is poison to the human race. It is a control mechanism, using fear and doubt as it's main tool. Embrace the many wonderful things said by many in this thread and accept them as your truth.

The Bible is just a pretender. It steals from the many hundreds of stories from so many other myths. The original God for Earth inhabitants is the SUN.

Tell your friend that you respect his opinion, but it does not resonate with you....that is if it does not.

[RedeZra]

You believe everyone who partakes will be benefited, but that is an assumption which is unable to be measured in any conclusive way, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

science and reason cannot comprehend Spirit and religion ; )

listen to saints like Padre Pio and look into miracles associated with the Eucharist


Let's try reincarnation.
Why has that knowledge been supressed by the church?

listen to what the powerful saint Padre Pio says about reincarnation

“It does not matter what you believe about reincarnation. The only thing that matters is this: Are you seeking for God now?”

[TWINCANS]

You believe everyone who partakes will be benefited, but that is an assumption which is unable to be measured in any conclusive way, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. :)

science and reason cannot comprehend Spirit and religion ; )


listen to saints like Padre Pio and look into miracles associated with the Eucharist


Let's try reincarnation.
Why has that knowledge been supressed by the church?

listen to what the powerful saint Padre Pio says about reincarnation

“It does not matter what you believe about reincarnation. The only thing that matters is this: Are you seeking for God now?”



If you don't mind my saying so, your posts sound like they were written by someone living in a community that has another language. By this I mean that I see words, but they are not common language. I see sentences but they do not express with insight, just regurgitated liturgical mumbo jumbo.

If you want to say how all this religiosity feels to you, or how it expresses your personal view on creation and on life, then pleased drop the church vernacular and speak to us. We are reading what you say, but it goes over my head due to the language issue.

Try saying it without words like sanctified, spirit, eucharist, saint, jesus, rite, saviour, seeking, partake, communion, holy, bread and wine and so on. You get my idea here.:kiss:

[Teakai]

science and reason cannot comprehend Spirit and religion ; )The mystery schools were right into science and the study of the spirit, so that is an untrue statement.
And saying that the Eucharist benefits all is a faith based statement. Faith has no grounding, but is the desperate hope that something is so.


listen to saints like Padre Pio and look into miracles associated with the Eucharist
I’m sure there are miracles – but they’re not confined to religion or to the Eucharist.


listen to what the powerful saint Padre Pio says about reincarnation:
“It does not matter what you believe about reincarnation. The only thing that matters is this: Are you seeking for God now?”

Well, it does matter in regard to the church not telling people about it if it’s a spiritual fact.

It’s good for business, though - people are so much more easily controlled if they think this is the only life they get and if they mess it up (or aren’t Christian) then they’re done for and in a pretty horrible way, too. Eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell.

[MoSh187]

Religion, as your friend understands it is poison to the human race. It is a control mechanism, using fear and doubt as it's main tool. Embrace the many wonderful things said by many in this thread and accept them as your truth.

The Bible is just a pretender. It steals from the many hundreds of stories from so many other myths. The original God for Earth inhabitants is the SUN.

Tell your friend that you respect his opinion, but it does not resonate with you....that is if it does not.

If you are talking about the facts in zeitgeist put forth in it's film... umm dude that's been heavily Debunked. All of zeitgeists sources come from other authors and not original texts of those myths. Don't believe me? look it up... I challenge you to find one mythical or religious text that pre dates the christian era that has a story similar to Jesus with being born on Dec 25th. 12 followers, born of a virgin, crucified and raised after 3 days. While it is true that many religions after Christianity started copied the christian myth... none of those myths pre date the christian era. As for pagan symbolism in religious art. That's a catholic church creation, and it was done simply because when Rome adopted Christianity as it's main religion they had to make it appeal to the pagans.

[Teakai]

Religion, as your friend understands it is poison to the human race. It is a control mechanism, using fear and doubt as it's main tool. Embrace the many wonderful things said by many in this thread and accept them as your truth.

The Bible is just a pretender. It steals from the many hundreds of stories from so many other myths. The original God for Earth inhabitants is the SUN.

Tell your friend that you respect his opinion, but it does not resonate with you....that is if it does not.

If you are talking about the facts in zeitgeist put forth in it's film... umm dude that's been heavily Debunked. All of zeitgeists sources come from other authors and not original texts of those myths. Don't believe me? look it up... I challenge you to find one mythical or religious text that pre dates the christian era that has a story similar to Jesus with being born on Dec 25th. 12 followers, born of a virgin, crucified and raised after 3 days. While it is true that many religions after Christianity started copied the christian myth... none of those myths pre date the christian era. As for pagan symbolism in religious art. That's a catholic church creation, and it was done simply because when Rome adopted Christianity as it's main religion they had to make it appeal to the pagans.

Hi Mosh - where was it debunked? I am seriously asking because I've listened to Jordan Maxwell and he comes across as knowing what he's on about.

What about Mithra and Horus? I want to take a deeper look into it, but first I want to know who debunked it and on what grounds.

[MoSh187]

Religion, as your friend understands it is poison to the human race. It is a control mechanism, using fear and doubt as it's main tool. Embrace the many wonderful things said by many in this thread and accept them as your truth.

The Bible is just a pretender. It steals from the many hundreds of stories from so many other myths. The original God for Earth inhabitants is the SUN.

Tell your friend that you respect his opinion, but it does not resonate with you....that is if it does not.

If you are talking about the facts in zeitgeist put forth in it's film... umm dude that's been heavily Debunked. All of zeitgeists sources come from other authors and not original texts of those myths. Don't believe me? look it up... I challenge you to find one mythical or religious text that pre dates the christian era that has a story similar to Jesus with being born on Dec 25th. 12 followers, born of a virgin, crucified and raised after 3 days. While it is true that many religions after Christianity started copied the christian myth... none of those myths pre date the christian era. As for pagan symbolism in religious art. That's a catholic church creation, and it was done simply because when Rome adopted Christianity as it's main religion they had to make it appeal to the pagans.

Hi Mosh - where was it debunked? I am seriously asking because I've listened to Jordan Maxwell and he comes across as knowing what he's on about.

What about Mithra and Horus? I want to take a deeper look into it, but first I want to know who debunked it and on what grounds.

Well... actually it was mainly done by christians... a lot of the ids I saw weren't total dogmatic attacks. most of them were well researched an thought out. Do some Google searches and read some Wikipedia articles. go to the library and start reading (I've done both... I tried very hard to find such similarities but alas what I found would be called extremely stretching the story in order to make only a handful of those facts, "true".). As JM says "you better do your homework." and he kind of says that not expecting us to actually do our homework.

Have you ever seen the Aaron Russo movie freedom to Fascism... remember the main phrase of the film when it came to income tax??? "Where is the law?" Well Mr. Peter Joseph... Where's your verifiable research?


anyway one of the more interesting debunking videos i found... is the only one not done by a christian.

RohTNQljPFQ

but hey. don't take a videos word for it. Do your homework and try to find the similarities between all these gods and Jesus... Research your truth... don't just believe blindly.

[Teakai]

Well... actually it was mainly done by christians... a lot of the ids I saw weren't total dogmatic attacks. most of them were well researched an thought out. Do some Google searches and read some Wikipedia articles. go to the library and start reading (I've done both... I tried very hard to find such similarities but alas what I found would be called extremely stretching the story in order to make only a handful of those facts, "true".). As JM says "you better do your homework." and he kind of says that not expecting us to actually do our homework.

Have you ever seen the Aaron Russo movie freedom to Fascism... remember the main phrase of the film when it came to income tax??? "Where is the law?" Well Mr. Peter Joseph... Where's your verifiable research?


anyway one of the more interesting debunking videos i found... is the only one not done by a christian.

RohTNQljPFQ

but hey. don't take a videos word for it. Do your homework and try to find the similarities between all these gods and Jesus... Research your truth... don't just believe blindly.

Hi Mosh - it seems the video you put up is showing the connection between Zeitgesit being presented to forward the new age agenda - which it may well be.
However - it makes no reference to the similarity between what the church has done to the Jesus story and how it is similar to other gods before him. Showing Jordan Maxwell's picture in the video seems to imply he is involved in the new world agenda.
I find this difficult to believe, for although he speaks openly against the church, I have never heard him or read him speaking for the new age agenda. So, in that way the video presents a bit of subconscious programming.

This also doesn't make what Jordan Maxwell says false. Debunking one aspect does not mean that everything was false.

The church has designed Jesus Christ in the image that suited them. Apparently Jesus wasn't born on the 25th at all - this was a concoction of the church in keeping with the religion that overlays the version of the truth they are keeping hidden.
In the same vein as history goes along the new Messiah will be made to fit the mould of his predecessors.

It's roots are in astro theology - which is the oldest of religions. Same story - different characters.

[MoSh187]

It's roots are in astro theology - which is the oldest of religions. Same story - different characters.

how do you know that it's true? have you looked it up. Are there any other sources for astrotheology either than Jordan maxwell, Michael Tsarion, and acharia S? You are simply repeating what they say.. but them saying it doesn't convince me. I need sources.

[Teakai]

It's roots are in astro theology - which is the oldest of religions. Same story - different characters.

how do you know that it's true? have you looked it up. Are there any other sources for astrotheology either than Jordan maxwell, Michael Tsarion, and acharia S? You are simply repeating what they say.. but them saying it doesn't convince me. I need sources.

What sources did you use to accept the debunking as being factual? :)

However - the sources are here: http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/ have a riffle through his site - it's extensive with lots of 'evidence' to back up what he says. It's truly fascinating. He also has talks on you tube if you like to use visuals and voice to determine one's honesty in regard to what they say.
He's been studying this for most of his life, so I would consider him the expert on the subject.

Also, there's Michael Tsarion: http://www.michaeltsarion.com/

They're the best two I've found so far.

I have no idea who Acharia S is, but what the above two say makes loads of sense and the church has already proven it's lack of integrity.

[MoSh187]

Geje5Ncj__k

[RedeZra]

If you don't mind my saying so, your posts sound like they were written by someone living in a community that has another language. By this I mean that I see words, but they are not common language. I see sentences but they do not express with insight, just regurgitated liturgical mumbo jumbo.



well it is traditional words and common language within spiritual circles ; )


you will find all the words in an online dictionary so to call it mumbo jumbo just shows your lack of understanding really

there is a whole spiritual world out there and we can talk about it as we're not without words to express and explain spiritual stuff

[RedeZra]

It’s good for business, though - people are so much more easily controlled if they think this is the only life they get and if they mess it up (or aren’t Christian) then they’re done for and in a pretty horrible way, too. Eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell.

hell is as real as heaven and earth and all three are inhabited ; )

Christianity would be a sham if it witheld vital information from humanity just to pamper and please a majority of the people


I know that many of us are aware of the massive mind control exerted upon us by the PTB from cradle to grave... but the pit of conditioning is so deep that it's impossible to break free without a little help from heaven

[TWINCANS]

If you don't mind my saying so, your posts sound like they were written by someone living in a community that has another language. By this I mean that I see words, but they are not common language. I see sentences but they do not express with insight, just regurgitated liturgical mumbo jumbo.



well it is traditional words and common language within spiritual circles ; )


you will find all the words in an online dictionary so to call it mumbo jumbo just shows your lack of understanding really

there is a whole spiritual world out there and we can talk about it as we're not without words to express and explain spiritual stuff

No, that's xristian-speak. Please do not offend others by saying they are not spiritual when you have no understanding of either how spiritual they are, or what is or is not true spirit speaking. Your post has unearthed the problem with followers - they feel superior in some way. Which would be ego-speak FYI.

[RedeZra]

Please do not offend others by saying they are not spiritual when you have no understanding of either how spiritual they are not what is or is not true spirit speaking. Your post had uunearthed the problem with followers - they feel superior in some way. Which would be ego-talk FYI.

why not look up the words you didn't understand - as they are there in the dictionary - and increase you're vocabulary ; )

[TWINCANS]

Please do not offend others by saying they are not spiritual when you have no understanding of either how spiritual they are not what is or is not true spirit speaking. Your post had uunearthed the problem with followers - they feel superior in some way. Which would be ego-talk FYI.

why not look up the words you didn't understand - as they are there in the dictionary - and increase you're vocabulary ; )

I think the situation has become clear here. I'm done.

[RedeZra]

why not look up the words you didn't understand - as they are there in the dictionary - and increase you're vocabulary ; )

I think the situation has become clear here. I'm done.

tnx for not throwing the santa claus card at me... as I have no defense against it ; )

[Nyce555]

I think your idea about Israel being Earth makes sense and I was raised a Christian in the traditional sense, but with an open minded mother. I don't agree with how some Christians try to convert others agressively. I believe your relationship with God is sacred and between you and God. I also don't believe that non-Christians are going to burn in "hell" for not accepting Jesus as their Savior. If you relate to another religion than that is quite alright in my eyes. Before Christianity and other religions existed, these principles didn't even exist and I'm sure those folks didn't all end up in punishment for eternity. A lot of Christians are not even following what Jesus preached about anyways, which is hypocritical. I also believe in mediating and reincarnation so I would probably be kicked out of one of the traditional churches I was raised in. However a person connects with God is their business and if it feels right for them, so be it. Spirituality is a beautiful thing and we can all learn so much from each other if we just took away those titles of "Christian", "Muslim", "Jewish" etc..... We are all on this Earth together on this crazy rollercoaster of life. We came here to learn from each other and that alone is worth it.

[RedeZra]

it is just another Big lie planted by the PTB implying Christianity as an invention of the PTB as it is Christ that is the Champion of the Church

Lucifer is not happy about the Church at all and has been relentless in his smears schemes splits and subversions of Christianity for 2000 years


there is a Name that renders Lucifer and his legions helpless and this Name is Jesus Christ

so when one slanders the Church or Christianity then one is not helping Christ but Lucifer


many might not be aware that PTB agents are very active in promoting and selling a variety of pseudo spirituality

with one cold calculated purpose only

that we will eventually give in and forgo and forget the Name that has the power to help and to heal us from the clutches of evil


it is not necessarily easy to recognize evil as it can be sweet in the beginning

and conversely good can feel like acid in the beginning

but in the end...

evil will be acid and good will be sweet ; )

[Teakai]

It’s good for business, though - people are so much more easily controlled if they think this is the only life they get and if they mess it up (or aren’t Christian) then they’re done for and in a pretty horrible way, too. Eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell.

hell is as real as heaven and earth and all three are inhabited ; )

Christianity would be a sham if it witheld vital information from humanity just to pamper and please a majority of the people


I know that many of us are aware of the massive mind control exerted upon us by the PTB from cradle to grave... but the pit of conditioning is so deep that it's impossible to break free without a little help from heaven

I most absolutely agree.
:)

[Teakai]

Geje5Ncj__k

Mosh, I've listened to this - and I've listened to Bill Cooper and I've listened to Jordan Maxwell - and I've listened to Bill Cooper talking with Jordan Maxwell.

The guy doing the video is full of it. Yes, Jordan Maxwell tells it as it is via the understanding of the secret socities - but he has always said that that is not his version of what god is, and Bill Cooper always verifies when he is reading from a book and when it's his own personal opinion - but so what? I have never heard Bill Cooper and Jordan Maxwell disagree with each other on the subject, which leads me to think that this guy making the video is just another Christian with an axe to grind.

What particular point in your opinion, is this guy making that debunks astro theology?

[RedeZra]

Christianity would be a sham if it witheld vital information from humanity just to pamper and please a majority of the people




I most absolutely agree.
:)

reincarnation is not vital information

it's just nice to know ; )

[Teakai]

reincarnation is not vital information

it's just nice to know ; )

That's a matter of opinion.

But to lie about it - that's just wrong. If I was going to adopt a religion - it would be one that didn't lie (does one even exist?) - even for my own good (or their own pockets)

Why do you keep making excuses for the church when they are so obviously shonky?
I get that there are the teachings of Jesus (including the gnostic teachings) and then there is the church. The church made christianity - not Jesus.

[RedeZra]

Why do you keep making excuses for the church when they are so obviously shonky?


because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

[Teakai]

because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

But it's not the name that's important - it's the message.

The church gives very little of that message - and what remains of the gnostic texts gives one a brief look at the truth.

The bible may do as an account of our past from one particular perspective - but it's not much help in regard to spiritual knowledge.
Religious identification won't give spiritual evolvement, it will keep one spiritually unevolved and dependent.

And when people decide they're Christians (or some other organised religion) and that's who they are, they stick blindly to the dogma and don't look outside the box. They stay trapped by their own accord.

[Lord Sidious]

Why do you keep making excuses for the church when they are so obviously shonky?


because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

In your opinion, you forgot to add that bit.

[RedeZra]

because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

But it's not the name that's important - it's the message.



the message is important but the Name is most important

because all the powers of God is invested in this Name


names are very important as nothing is made without a name


everything is made by Divine incantation ; )

[RedeZra]

Why do you keep making excuses for the church when they are so obviously shonky?


because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

In your opinion, you forgot to add that bit.

there is evidence - suppressed and censored of course - but some still available by active research ; )

[TWINCANS]

Christianity would be a sham if it witheld vital information from humanity just to pamper and please a majority of the people




I most absolutely agree.
:)

reincarnation is not vital information

it's just nice to know ; )

What?!
You obviously do not have any past life memories. They are not just nice to know. They're mind-blowing.

[Lord Sidious]

Why do you keep making excuses for the church when they are so obviously shonky?


because they keep the Name high and alive ; )

besides the Bible is an old factual account of our past

In your opinion, you forgot to add that bit.

there is evidence - suppressed and censored of course - but some still available by active research ; )

Is it as subjective as the rest of your ''evidence'' that you have presented to us?
IE, does it require me to have faith to read the secret script?

[Teakai]

the message is important but the Name is most important

because all the powers of God is invested in this Name


names are very important as nothing is made without a name


everything is made by Divine incantation ; )


There have been incidences of people calling out to Allah and God, and Jesus and Mohammad and the spirit of their dead Aunt Nellie and received intervention.

I’m not disputing that there are levels of existence in which we can receive assistance if we ask for it, but for a particular religion to claim ownership of that while telling its followers that theirs is the only way to salvation - is false.

There is simply the Truth – organised religion takes a little bit of that and dresses it in all sorts of delusion all for the sake of (mind) control.

[TWINCANS]

the message is important but the Name is most important

because all the powers of God is invested in this Name


names are very important as nothing is made without a name


everything is made by Divine incantation ; )


There have been incidences of people calling out to Allah and God, and Jesus and Mohammad and the spirit of their dead Aunt Nellie and received intervention.

I’m not disputing that there are levels of existence in which we can receive assistance if we ask for it, but for a particular religion to claim ownership of that while telling its followers that theirs is the only way to salvation - is false.

There is simply the Truth – organised religion takes a little bit of that and dresses it in all sorts of delusion all for the sake of (mind) control.

Um... it occurred to me that this is sounding a bit like sorcery. Just recite this (secret) name and all will be well. Definitely a new take on Christianity for me - use the name of Christ as a counter-spell to those who use the name of he that shall not be named. And if they take our name away, our spells will not work.

[RedeZra]

There is simply the Truth – organised religion takes a little bit of that and dresses it in all sorts of delusion all for the sake of (mind) control.

Christianity is not spotless nor without faults still it's much sounder than all the nuage pseudo spirituality out there


Truth is the Direct experience and therefore cannot be taught

only pointed and alluded to as oneself has to blossom into perfection


it goes without saying that truthfulness is a prerequisite for experiencing Truth ; )

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Um... it occurred to me that this is sounding a bit like sorcery. Just recite this (secret) name and all will be well. Definitely a new take on Christianity for me - use the name of Christ as a counter-spell to those who use the name of he that shall not be named. And if they take our name away, our spells will not work.

We are all under the Maya Spell

else there would be no we ; )


---



Is it as subjective as the rest of your ''evidence'' that you have presented to us?
IE, does it require me to have faith to read the secret script?


here is evidence that Exodus happened ; )


Mountain Of Fire - The Search For The True Mount Sinai - part 1/5


A08_oRBAVPA

I had nothing to do with this film

[Teakai]

Christianity is not spotless nor without faults still it's much sounder than all the nuage pseudo spirituality out there


Truth is the Direct experience and therefore cannot be taught

only pointed and alluded to as oneself has to blossom into perfection


it goes without saying that truthfulness is a prerequisite for experiencing Truth ; )[COLOR="red"]



Is Chrisitanity not much the same as nuage pseudo spirituality if you’re not getting the spiritual truth?

As you said – Truth is a direct experience. It is within the individual, and identification with religion is a side track, or even a dead end.

I was going to say that religion can be good for teaching people how to play nicely together – but that only works to a certain extent.

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”

Steven Weinberg.

[RedeZra]

As you said – Truth is a direct experience. It is within the individual, and identification with religion is a side track, or even a dead end.


then don't bother with religion ; )

like me lol

[Teakai]

then don't bother with religion ; )

like me lol

Quite :)

But...if you feel that way - why make the debate for religion? It's like being an ex drug addict advocating the benefits of crack.

(I saw a thread about artificial Scizophrenia posted recently - must check that out and see what it's about ;))

[Lord Sidious]

Well, one video to ''prove'' that one part of one part happened.
Impressive.

[Teakai]

here is evidence that Exodus happened ; )


Mountain Of Fire - The Search For The True Mount Sinai - part 1/5


A08_oRBAVPA

I had nothing to do with this film[/CENTER]

That video reinforces my theory that the OT god is an ET, because surely only an egoic type of god can require sacrifice - or to have you cut the tip of your penis off?

Have you watched "the exodus decoded" by Simcha Jacobovici? I really enjoy his stuff.
Here's part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBvvDl25F4
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBvvDl25F4
and the links to the rest if you're interested.
part:2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8L6ZhNP3o&feature=related
part:3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpdl3RsDBQg&feature=related
part:4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpmbOtpqBuI&feature=related

[RedeZra]

then don't bother with religion ; )

like me lol

Quite :)

But...if you feel that way - why make the debate for religion? It's like being an ex drug addict advocating the benefits of crack.



don't get me wrong again


Christianity is much better than all the nuage put together

so when people attack it I'll defend it ; )


I'm not out to convert or convince anybody

but I'll stand by truth anytime




That video reinforces my theory that the OT god is an ET, because surely only an egoic type of god can require sacrifice - or to have you cut the tip of your penis off?


there is a huge problem with the hypothesis that YHWH is an ET

as there is no ET ; )


I'll watch the vids later...

[TWINCANS]

In my opinion, Graham Phillips is the closest in 'The Moses Legacy' and 'The Templars and the Ark of the Covenant'. He puts 'Mt Sinai' in the ancient kingdom of Edom - a mountain now called Jebel Madhbah.

I enjoy watching Simcha Jacobovici's stuff too but sometimes he's off base I feel. Still he's enthusiastic and unafraid to plough ahead with his ideas, so that makes his films fun to watch. Did you see his one about The Jesus Family Tomb?

BTW In this ist vid they talk about the Red Sea, but that's a mistranslation of the Reed Sea and the theory that combines it with the Thera earthquake and subsequent tsunami makes sense - that they could walk across, while the army got swamped later.

[RedeZra]

In my opinion, Graham Phillips is the closest in 'The Moses Legacy' and 'The Templars and the Ark of the Covenant'. He puts 'Mt Sinai' in the ancient kingdom of Edom - a mountain now called Jebel Madhbah.


the old Mt Sinai is now called Jabal al Lawz and is located in Saudi Arabia ; )

[TWINCANS]

In my opinion, Graham Phillips is the closest in 'The Moses Legacy' and 'The Templars and the Ark of the Covenant'. He puts 'Mt Sinai' in the ancient kingdom of Edom - a mountain now called Jebel Madhbah.


the old Mt Sinai is now called Jabal al Lawz and is located in Saudi Arabia ; )

I think the point here is that the one in Saudi is incorrect.

Oh, and Hell is Hel, a garbage dump on the outskirts of old Jerusalem. Not a fun place but hardly a BBQ for sinners.

[sirac]

you guys miss the aim of civilization 'sh_t'

the ultimate idea was for a time or breed that condense the best of teachings

sure the bible never happened
the kabalic interpretation that it is a Spiritual Summary

is the ultimate summary....its the ultimate interpretation
i went through the phases of learning the bible, of-course people like centring on the NT stuff,
but i've found that if u recode the OT, it.....
now it for me is my central soul characteristic
i am stingy with my soul,
some are just outside,
and i am non permitting to them,
that is the code of the form i take from OT,
it is secret form, and i'll code it for my family as it would be the last thing taken from this time before the conditions for its distillation passes

u idi_ts are busy within the temporal aspect,
u have not been enlightened yet
or u are enlightedned and are destroying the phase barrier before we have time to distil from it

[conk]

Religion, as your friend understands it is poison to the human race. It is a control mechanism, using fear and doubt as it's main tool. Embrace the many wonderful things said by many in this thread and accept them as your truth.

The Bible is just a pretender. It steals from the many hundreds of stories from so many other myths. The original God for Earth inhabitants is the SUN.

Tell your friend that you respect his opinion, but it does not resonate with you....that is if it does not.

If you are talking about the facts in zeitgeist put forth in it's film... umm dude that's been heavily Debunked. All of zeitgeists sources come from other authors and not original texts of those myths. Don't believe me? look it up... I challenge you to find one mythical or religious text that pre dates the christian era that has a story similar to Jesus with being born on Dec 25th. 12 followers, born of a virgin, crucified and raised after 3 days. While it is true that many religions after Christianity started copied the christian myth... none of those myths pre date the christian era. As for pagan symbolism in religious art. That's a catholic church creation, and it was done simply because when Rome adopted Christianity as it's main religion they had to make it appeal to the pagans. No, this 'dude' did not have Zeitgeist in mind. Only the respected, documented research of hundreds of folks more educated than myself. And who debunked the information, Christians? Ha! Isn't that kind of like the purveyors of poison telling you it's safe to drink?

Think about it, all religion is fear of gods. Fear of the Sun not shining. Fear of the rain not falling, etc. So all manner of rituals were concocted to appease the gods. It's so elegantly simple to understand if you read the histories.

Good luck in your understanding and learning.

[RedeZra]

the old Mt Sinai is now called Jabal al Lawz and is located in Saudi Arabia ; )

I think the point here is that the one in Saudi is incorrect.


the point is that if you had bothered to look at the clip I posted above then you would not regurgitate disinfo ; )

[RedeZra]

the kabalic interpretation that it is a Spiritual Summary


the Cabala is a work of the Cabal ; )

[RedeZra]

Think about it, all religion is fear of gods. Fear of the Sun not shining. Fear of the rain not falling, etc. So all manner of rituals were concocted to appease the gods. It's so elegantly simple to understand if you read the histories.


that tin foil hat doesn't seem to let anything through ; )

[Teakai]

don't get me wrong again


Christianity is much better than all the nuage put together

so when people attack it I'll defend it ; )


I'm not out to convert or convince anybody

but I'll stand by truth anytime




That video reinforces my theory that the OT god is an ET, because surely only an egoic type of god can require sacrifice - or to have you cut the tip of your penis off?


there is a huge problem with the hypothesis that YHWH is an ET

as there is no ET ; )


I'll watch the vids later...

Nuage is just another religion.

In regard to ET - I don't know if ET exist or not. I see no reason why they shouldn't and like I've said before Ezeckiel certainly seems to be talking about something that is not of this earth. I've asked you before what you made of that chapter - so, what do you make of it, what are those beings he's desrcribing and where do they come from?

And, though the military do fake alien abductions - what makes you think that means that ET's don't exist?

[Teakai]

In my opinion, Graham Phillips is the closest in 'The Moses Legacy' and 'The Templars and the Ark of the Covenant'. He puts 'Mt Sinai' in the ancient kingdom of Edom - a mountain now called Jebel Madhbah.

I enjoy watching Simcha Jacobovici's stuff too but sometimes he's off base I feel. Still he's enthusiastic and unafraid to plough ahead with his ideas, so that makes his films fun to watch. Did you see his one about The Jesus Family Tomb?

BTW In this ist vid they talk about the Red Sea, but that's a mistranslation of the Reed Sea and the theory that combines it with the Thera earthquake and subsequent tsunami makes sense - that they could walk across, while the army got swamped later.

I did. It was so exciting - the highs and lows of whether they were going to be able to get the camera down. Loved it. Have just found his "quest for the lost tribes."

[Teakai]

the Cabala is a work of the Cabal ; )

The Cabala is Jewish mysticism.

Is it only the Christian religion you defend?

[Teakai]

you guys miss the aim of civilization 'sh_t'

the ultimate idea was for a time or breed that condense the best of teachings

sure the bible never happened
the kabalic interpretation that it is a Spiritual Summary

is the ultimate summary....its the ultimate interpretation
i went through the phases of learning the bible, of-course people like centring on the NT stuff,
but i've found that if u recode the OT, it.....
now it for me is my central soul characteristic
i am stingy with my soul,
some are just outside,
and i am non permitting to them,
that is the code of the form i take from OT,
it is secret form, and i'll code it for my family as it would be the last thing taken from this time before the conditions for its distillation passes

u idi_ts are busy within the temporal aspect,
u have not been enlightened yet
or u are enlightedned and are destroying the phase barrier before we have time to distil from it

Hi Sirac, there's organised religion and then there's spiritual writings. Organised religion doesn't decode the bible and expose the hidden knowledge.

Thing is -in the material world the bad guys will usually win the day as they have no limits to what they will do to achieve their aims.

[TWINCANS]

In my opinion, Graham Phillips is the closest in 'The Moses Legacy' and 'The Templars and the Ark of the Covenant'. He puts 'Mt Sinai' in the ancient kingdom of Edom - a mountain now called Jebel Madhbah.

I enjoy watching Simcha Jacobovici's stuff too but sometimes he's off base I feel. Still he's enthusiastic and unafraid to plough ahead with his ideas, so that makes his films fun to watch. Did you see his one about The Jesus Family Tomb?

BTW In this ist vid they talk about the Red Sea, but that's a mistranslation of the Reed Sea and the theory that combines it with the Thera earthquake and subsequent tsunami makes sense - that they could walk across, while the army got swamped later.

I did. It was so exciting - the highs and lows of whether they were going to be able to get the camera down. Loved it. Have just found his "quest for the lost tribes."


I'll have to watch out for that one. He's from TO so they do show his stuff often on Cdn channels.

You never said whether you had read Graham Phillips.

[Teakai]

I'll have to watch out for that one. He's from TO so they do show his stuff often on Cdn channels.

You never said whether you had read Graham Phillips.

No, I haven't read Graham Phillips, but I did note his name to look out for him. The "quest for the lost tribes is on you tube. Here's the first one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baF5aa8t3Yo
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baF5aa8t3Yo

Just discovered the local library has his book - 'The search for the grail' - have you read that and is it any good?

[TWINCANS]

Thanks for that!

[thunder24]

"A star in the West" is a good read by Elias Boudinot. He was president of the continental congress.

Talks bout the lost tribes. Check it out
peace

[Teakai]

Thanks for that!

You're welcome. :)
Just discovered the local library has his book - 'The search for the grail' and "the Shakespeare conspiracy"- have you read any of those and are they any good?

As you probably are already aware Shakespeare is thought to be Sir Francis Bacon who edited the bible back in the 16th century.

[noxon medem]

on Thread Title :

- In short : Yes and No
are you talking fairytale
or harsh reality ...

Somehow not even Israel
is in present day israel ..

so, be well
all well

nm

[conk]

Think about it, all religion is fear of gods. Fear of the Sun not shining. Fear of the rain not falling, etc. So all manner of rituals were concocted to appease the gods. It's so elegantly simple to understand if you read the histories.


that tin foil hat doesn't seem to let anything through ; )What? You don't know that Christianity is merely dressed up pagan rituals? Mushroom and all. Look at the Pope and his homage to the mushroom through his dress, his shoes, his hats, his drinking cup, and his robes. Pagan, shaman mushroom of one special variety. Look it up. Pharmacratic Inquisition. com or something or other.

Go to go, a Mormon is at the door with a magic frog.

[TOTHE]

Teakai and RedeZra;

I have sent you two a private message regarding Israel, Earth and the Human Collective.

[thunder24]

Think about it, all religion is fear of gods. Fear of the Sun not shining. Fear of the rain not falling, etc. So all manner of rituals were concocted to appease the gods. It's so elegantly simple to understand if you read the histories.


that tin foil hat doesn't seem to let anything through ; )What? You don't know that Christianity is merely dressed up pagan rituals? Mushroom and all. Look at the Pope and his homage to the mushroom through his dress, his shoes, his hats, his drinking cup, and his robes. Pagan, shaman mushroom of one special variety. Look it up. Pharmacratic Inquisition. com or something or other.

Go to go, a Mormon is at the door with a magic frog.

What (g)ods were the native americans appeaseing when calling them star nations?Was the "Great Spirit" actually God to them, and if so was this spirit physical as in flesh and blood or spirit? please and thankyou
peace

[RedeZra]

What? You don't know that Christianity is merely dressed up pagan rituals? Mushroom and all. Look at the Pope and his homage to the mushroom through his dress, his shoes, his hats, his drinking cup, and his robes. Pagan, shaman mushroom of one special variety. Look it up. Pharmacratic Inquisition. com or something or other.



perhaps the papacy has become paganistic ; )


paganism is polytheistic idolatry of spirits or astral beings

which Jesus used to cast out of people


the Prince of these astral beings is the Eye of the PTB

but Jesus Christ is God ; )

[MoSh187]

What? You don't know that Christianity is merely dressed up pagan rituals? Mushroom and all. Look at the Pope and his homage to the mushroom through his dress, his shoes, his hats, his drinking cup, and his robes. Pagan, shaman mushroom of one special variety. Look it up. Pharmacratic Inquisition. com or something or other.




perhaps the papacy has become paganistic ; )


paganism is polytheistic idolatry of spirits or astral beings

which Jesus used to cast out of people


the Prince of these astral beings is the Eye of the PTB

but Jesus Christ is God ; )

That makes sense.... We all know that the truth movement has alluded to the PTB actually worship Satan and do satanic rituals. IE bohemian grove... which top countrymen, politics, heads of corporations and heads of news media all attend. Albert Pike, Illuminati author talks about satan being the true light. Maddame blavatsky and Alice Bailey of theosophy were satan worshippers as well. It would make sense that they would try to discredit the bible and Jesus... which if you actually read is VERY anti NWO.

I'm not a christian... but I was raised as one. When I was a child I would have harsh sleep paralysis, would wake up seeing clowns in my room and I was always terrified. Because I was christian in those days I would call out to Jesus to help me... and like magic these evil clowns and other things in my room would vanish.

[Teakai]

perhaps the papacy has become paganistic ; )


paganism is polytheistic idolatry of spirits or astral beings

which Jesus used to cast out of people


the Prince of these astral beings is the Eye of the PTB

but Jesus Christ is God ; )

That's what the church told you - and they're the one's doing the pagan thang. The church made Christianity.

[TWINCANS]

Thanks for that!

You're welcome. :)
Just discovered the local library has his book - 'The search for the grail' and "the Shakespeare conspiracy"- have you read any of those and are they any good?

As you probably are already aware Shakespeare is thought to be Sir Francis Bacon who edited the bible back in the 16th century.


Yes, both. All his books are great. I don't know if you are aware of The Green Stone, 1983 that he wrote with Andrew Collins and Martin Keatman that started the whole idea of Psychic Questing? It was followed up by The Seventh Sword. Later Collins wrote The Black Alchemist. All are part of the same real life adventure.
As for the Shakespeare question, I belong to an organization The Shakespeare Authorship Coalition that supports further inquiry into the question of authorship and includes such people as Derek Jacobi, because currently anyone in academic circles who tries to write a thesis on another possible author is hounded and ridiculed until their career is over.
Personally, I'm getting that Shakespeare was not one person but a group of (mostly) noblemen who wrote under a pseudonym. It was dangerous times, and the plays are allegories for issues of the day that were critical of Elizabeth's iron rule; very political topics and hanging was the risk. The group may include at various times: Edward de vere Earl of Oxford, Henry Neville, Chrstopher Marlowe, Henry Percy, Howard, maybe Essex and others. The group centred on Percy I think as he had a complete library and was central to the group's political aims, with Neville and Oxford lending writing skills and background behind the scenes. Also Ben Jonson might have had a hand.
Bacon is unlikely as I believe he was Elizabeth's illegitimate son.


I have 'Shakespeare by Another Name' suggesting Oxford, and 'The truth Will Out' suggesting Henry Neville. Both make excellent cases.
I also have pretty much all Graham Phillips books including 'The Shakespeare Conspiracy'. In this he reviews, among many ideas, another theory that Shakespeare was a spy. The case is also compelling for that angle.

Did you know that there was a 'Stratford' in the suburbs of London at the time, which makes more sense than the one in Oxford area.

As I said I can't recommend Phillips books too highly - he's a researcher but i also think he's 'guided'.

[Teakai]

Yes, both. All his books are great. I don't know if you are aware of The Green Stone, 1983 that he wrote with Andrew Collins and Martin Keatman that started the whole idea of Psychic Questing? It was followed up by The Seventh Sword. Later Collins wrote The Black Alchemist. All are part of the same real life adventure.
As for the Shakespeare question, I belong to an organization The Shakespeare Authorship Coalition that supports further inquiry into the question of authorship and includes such people as Derek Jacobi, because currently anyone in academic circles who tries to write a thesis on another possible author is hounded and ridiculed until their career is over.
Personally, I'm getting that Shakespeare was not one person but a group of (mostly) noblemen who wrote under a pseudonym. It was dangerous times, and the plays are allegories for issues of the day that were critical of Elizabeth's iron rule; very political topics and hanging was the risk. The group may include at various times: Edward de vere Earl of Oxford, Henry Neville, Chrstopher Marlowe, Henry Percy, Howard, maybe Essex and others. The group centred on Percy I think as he had a complete library and was central to the group's political aims, with Neville and Oxford lending writing skills and background behind the scenes. Also Ben Jonson might have had a hand.
Bacon is unlikely as I believe he was Elizabeth's illegitimate son.


I have 'Shakespeare by Another Name' suggesting Oxford, and 'The truth Will Out' suggesting Henry Neville. Both make excellent cases.
I also have pretty much all Graham Phillips books including 'The Shakespeare Conspiracy'. In this he reviews, among many ideas, another theory that Shakespeare was a spy. The case is also compelling for that angle.

Did you know that there was a 'Stratford' in the suburbs of London at the time, which makes more sense than the one in Oxford area.

As I said I can't recommend Phillips books too highly - he's a researcher but i also think he's 'guided'.

No, I hadn't even heard of Graham Phillips prior to your mentioning him. I'm going to go and pick up the 2 books the library have in today.

Fascinating stuff about Shakespeare.
Just to say, though - in regard to Francis Bacon being the Queen's illegitimate son - why would that stop him voicing his views under cover? Royal families have a history of not liking each other very much - and an illegitimate son would never be able to inherit - so maybe there wasn't much love lost between them?

[RedeZra]

In regard to ET - I don't know if ET exist or not. I see no reason why they shouldn't and like I've said before Ezeckiel certainly seems to be talking about something that is not of this earth. I've asked you before what you made of that chapter - so, what do you make of it, what are those beings he's desrcribing and where do they come from?


the PTB are pagans as they commune with astral beings and so they are idolators working for themselves against the rest of humanity and God


ET is just a term invented by the PTB to camouflage the real nature of these astral beings which they are in league with


besides the term ET is also good for trying to trick us in a variety of ways


* presenting a Problem and a diversion for humanity as ET would pose as a Big unknown

* sowing a seed of doubt and uncertainty about our origin purpose etc

* perfect cover for secret man made nuts n bolts

* arousing our interest in these astrals which they will pick up btw as they are intelligent



Ezekiel must have seen some celestial beings on celestial crafts ; )

[TWINCANS]

Yes, both. All his books are great. I don't know if you are aware of The Green Stone, 1983 that he wrote with Andrew Collins and Martin Keatman that started the whole idea of Psychic Questing? It was followed up by The Seventh Sword. Later Collins wrote The Black Alchemist. All are part of the same real life adventure.
As for the Shakespeare question, I belong to an organization The Shakespeare Authorship Coalition that supports further inquiry into the question of authorship and includes such people as Derek Jacobi, because currently anyone in academic circles who tries to write a thesis on another possible author is hounded and ridiculed until their career is over.
Personally, I'm getting that Shakespeare was not one person but a group of (mostly) noblemen who wrote under a pseudonym. It was dangerous times, and the plays are allegories for issues of the day that were critical of Elizabeth's iron rule; very political topics and hanging was the risk. The group may include at various times: Edward de vere Earl of Oxford, Henry Neville, Chrstopher Marlowe, Henry Percy, Howard, maybe Essex and others. The group centred on Percy I think as he had a complete library and was central to the group's political aims, with Neville and Oxford lending writing skills and background behind the scenes. Also Ben Jonson might have had a hand.
Bacon is unlikely as I believe he was Elizabeth's illegitimate son.


I have 'Shakespeare by Another Name' suggesting Oxford, and 'The truth Will Out' suggesting Henry Neville. Both make excellent cases.
I also have pretty much all Graham Phillips books including 'The Shakespeare Conspiracy'. In this he reviews, among many ideas, another theory that Shakespeare was a spy. The case is also compelling for that angle.

Did you know that there was a 'Stratford' in the suburbs of London at the time, which makes more sense than the one in Oxford area.

As I said I can't recommend Phillips books too highly - he's a researcher but i also think he's 'guided'.

No, I hadn't even heard of Graham Phillips prior to your mentioning him. I'm going to go and pick up the 2 books the library have in today.

Fascinating stuff about Shakespeare.
Just to say, though - in regard to Francis Bacon being the Queen's illegitimate son - why would that stop him voicing his views under cover? Royal families have a history of not liking each other very much - and an illegitimate son would never be able to inherit - so maybe there wasn't much love lost between them?


I know. Graham Phillips is another rehistorian that works away without much profile. After all, back in the early days who was there to support that kind of work? Nowadays there's the internet forums such as this one. But not all authors are being recognized because everyone's looking for 'what's new'. So many great books just being lost. My moan for the day.

Anyways, Bacon. There's a group (actually spearheaded by one man) in the uk that's been supporting the Bacon claim for years. The Gatekeeper Trust, Peter (and Sarah) Dawkins.
'The Gatekeeper Trust was founded in the summer of 1980 by a group of people, including the late Sir George Trevelyan, Stanley Messenger and Peter Dawkins...'
They've pretty much covered the whole theory so you could email Peter. They have MANY booklets on the subject. He's doing something called Zoence as well now (western equivalent of feng shui) connecting with the landscape which is what British visionaries do best IMO.

[RedeZra]

but Jesus Christ is God ; )

That's what the church told you - and they're the one's doing the pagan thang. The church made Christianity.

No Teakai I tell you ; )

[Teakai]

No Teakai I tell you ; )

There might have been many groups of people going around doing the teachings of Jesus - including groups that were considered gnostics, but they weren't called Christians.

Constantine came up with the name Hesus Christos when none of the leaders of the religious factions called together at the council of Nicea could decide upon a name for the new unified religion.
From: - The bible fraud by tony Bushby.

[conk]

[/QUOTE]

What (g)ods were the native americans appeaseing when calling them star nations?Was the "Great Spirit" actually God to them, and if so was this spirit physical as in flesh and blood or spirit? please and thankyou
peace[/QUOTE] Native Americans are very close to truth and I respect them. They should not be included in my generalizations above.

[Patrikas]

What (g)ods were the native americans appeaseing when calling them star nations?Was the "Great Spirit" actually God to them, and if so was this spirit physical as in flesh and blood or spirit? please and thankyou
peace[/QUOTE] Native Americans are very close to truth and I respect them. They should not be included in my generalizations above.[/QUOTE]

hi ......when you read or listen to many of the stories you will find that "great spirit and great mystery are 2 seperate things interpretation of that is Great Mystery is {that which was first always has been and always will be } great spirit was birthed out of the great mystery star nations and star knowledge was in its principals a deeper knowledge of some of the real truth about earth and her history in part

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

There is a mathematical concept call the Geographic Center, and interestingly the area of Israel is close to what's considered the Earth's Geographic Center, so maybe all of the earth is the West Bank and the modern creation of a land mass called Israel. :hail:


Is jerusalem the geographic center of the world?


Answer: Jerusalem is not the center but it is in the neighborhood. Ankara, Turkey (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#) is the nearest city to the geographic center of the world. This is according to Henry Morris, PhD, of the Institute for Creation Research. You can read the article at their website.



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#ixzz1OnYrE9su



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#ixzz1OnYJGyS3

Here's a neat link on Centroid computation for a specific use.
http://photonicssociety.org/newsletters/oct05/earth_image.html

[RedeZra]

There might have been many groups of people going around doing the teachings of Jesus - including groups that were considered gnostics, but they weren't called Christians.

Constantine came up with the name Hesus Christos when none of the leaders of the religious factions called together at the council of Nicea could decide upon a name for the new unified religion.
From: - The bible fraud by tony Bushby.

there is a force that is against truth today yesterday and all the way back to our very beginning

the twisting of truths and the outright lies are as ancient as mankind

there is a father of lies still active and alive in the trickery of humanity


can you discern fact from fiction and lies from truths ?

[Teakai]

there is a force that is against truth today yesterday and all the way back to our very beginning

the twisting of truths and the outright lies are as ancient as mankind

there is a father of lies still active and alive in the trickery of humanity


can you discern fact from fiction and lies from truths ?

I do try as I'm not much interested in anything less.
And, in this regard I start with the fact that Constantine put the religion of Christianity together 300 years after Jesus was (supposedly) crucified - and it pretty much goes downhill from there.

You, on the other hand seem to think that Constantine - the mighty emperor of the Roman Emprire, (which conquered/invaded vast expanses of the world and not by saying please and thank you) who killed and ruled and controlled was an all round good ol' guy who just wanted to spread the good word.

So, can you discern fact from fiction and lies from truths?
:)

[Teakai]

There is a mathematical concept call the Geographic Center, and interestingly the area of Israel is close to what's considered the Earth's Geographic Center, so maybe all of the earth is the West Bank and the modern creation of a land mass called Israel. :hail:


Is jerusalem the geographic center of the world?


Answer: Jerusalem is not the center but it is in the neighborhood. Ankara, Turkey (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#) is the nearest city to the geographic center of the world. This is according to Henry Morris, PhD, of the Institute for Creation Research. You can read the article at their website.



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#ixzz1OnYrE9su



Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_jerusalem_the_geographic_center_of_the_world#ixzz1OnYJGyS3

Here's a neat link on Centroid computation for a specific use.
http://photonicssociety.org/newsletters/oct05/earth_image.html



This might be a really daft question, but...centred in relation to what?
(I didn't read the links - hoping to take the easy way out)
:)

[RedeZra]

And, in this regard I start with the fact that Constantine put the religion of Christianity together 300 years after Jesus was (supposedly) crucified


that's not a fact at all

Constantine just summoned the Bishops of the early Christian churches so that the churches could consolidate and unite behind a credo which the Bishops agreed on... based on the unbroken linage and legacy from Christ to the Apostles to the first Bishops



So, can you discern fact from fiction and lies from truths?

better than you lol

[Teakai]

And, in this regard I start with the fact that Constantine put the religion of Christianity together 300 years after Jesus was (supposedly) crucified


that's not a fact at all

Constantine just summoned the Bishops of the early Christian churches so that the churches could consolidate and unite behind a credo which the Bishops agreed on... based on the unbroken linage and legacy from Christ to the Apostles to the first Bishops


Constantine didn't want warring religious factions within his Empire - so he called to unify them. So, obviously this means that they were groups of differing belief systems and practises.
They consolidated them into "H/Jesus Christ and the religion of Christianity".
(Gnosticism not included - doesn't pay for the give the people any actual knowledge.)



So, can you discern fact from fiction and lies from truths?

better than you lol

Well, when your discernment requires no basis in logic or reason I can see how you reach that conclusion.
;)

[Shadowstar1370]

Speaking of Israel as an anagram, or intepretations of the word Israel, one that always occured to me was Isis Ra Elohim, which seems more in keeping with the upper three Sephiroth of the Tree of Life.

[RedeZra]

Constantine didn't want warring religious factions within his Empire - so he called to unify them. So, obviously this means that they were groups of differing belief systems and practises.

Constantine was the emperor of an empire established on Roman religion and tradition

why would he suddenly switch to a religion which so many former Roman emperors persecuted ?

surly there must be a reason !


show me your logic ; )

[Teakai]

Constantine didn't want warring religious factions within his Empire - so he called to unify them. So, obviously this means that they were groups of differing belief systems and practises.

Constantine was the emperor of an empire established on Roman religion and tradition

why would he suddenly switch to a religion which so many former Roman emperors persecuted ?

surly there must be a reason !


show me your logic ; )

He didn't - because Christanity didn't exist until Constantine . Look at all the Paganism in Chrisitanity. This is logically 'evidence' that it is a religion that does not stand apart and alone, but is a mish mash of that which went before.

Constantine's interest was in keeping his Empire controlled.
It is thought by some historians that Constantine never even became a Christian himself. It was just something that suited his purpose.

My logic (apart from the paganism within Christianity) lies with Constantine being a human man in a position of power who did not wish to lose that power.
Now - you show me yours.
:)

[TWINCANS]

Agree and it wasn't even called Christianity. Back then they went back and forth between gods depending on who they could get the best blessing from. One minute they're sacrificing to Zeus, next to Mithras, next to Athena, then maybe Isis and so on.

BTW The 'Isis and her son Horus cult' was having a major resurgence at the time we are talking about and may have led Helena to think that she could gain some traction here for her son if he went with the more modern version of 'Mary and her son Jesus'. Not a crazy notion - this has been suggested as a real motivation for Helena and Constantine choosing to support the relative unknowns, the Jesus followers. They were just more modern, hip, today, new news.

Constantine leaves only coins with Sol Invictus on them - not Jesus.
He is only 'rumored' to have converted on his deathbed to the new religion (the old deathbed confession of a guy who's half gone). There's no proof. But there is proof that throughout his life he was a pagan. His war banners all had Sol Invictus on them.

Not someone to use in the way of proof of logic. Also awaiting yours.

[amedeejp]

Be careful Hexen, all may not be as it seems or as it is written...jp

[RedeZra]

He didn't - because Christanity didn't exist until Constantine .

are you aware how silly that statement is ?


Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus)(c.37 – 100) was a renowned Jewish historian who wrote 'Antiquities of the Jews'


...so he [Ananus] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned:... - Josephus in 'Antiquities of the Jews' book 20 chapter 9

the Apostles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Age)

the Early Church Fathers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers)

Early Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christian)

[Teakai]

He didn't - because Christanity didn't exist until Constantine .

are you aware how silly that statement is ?


Josephus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus)(c.37 – 100) was a renowned Jewish historian who wrote 'Antiquities of the Jews'


...so he [Ananus] assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned:... - Josephus in 'Antiquities of the Jews' book 20 chapter 9

the Apostles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Age)

the Early Church Fathers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers)

Early Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christian)

Can you just break that down for me to what's relevant because I really don't want to read it all and find it's all makes no case for Christianity existing before Constantine.
And just to say -Wikipedia can be altered by anyone with an interest to do so, so it's not much of a plug to your case.

Question - as an aside to the point - if Josephus was a Jew and he thought Jesus was the Christ - why was Josephus still a Jew and not a Christian?

[RedeZra]

Can you just break that down for me to what's relevant because I really don't want to read it all and find it's all makes no case for Christianity existing before Constantine.


as Buddhism started with Buddha so Christianity started with Christ

their teachings passed down from the master to the disciples in an unbroken line 300 years before Constantine

so it's common sense and an undisputed established fact that Christianity existed long before Constantine


who in hell have you been listening to since you claim such nonsense ?

---

the Jews view Josephus as a traitor so perhaps he was Christian

[Wesly]

Grow up........God is a civilization
Time travel controls all, future past present.
2012 just means times up.................Guess whos coming????

Oh ya, what a wicked web we weave when we can get people to tell you want they want to know about them selves.

[RedeZra]

Grow up........God is a civilization
Time travel controls all, future past present.
2012 just means times up.................Guess whos coming????

Oh ya, what a wicked web we weave when we can get people to tell you want they want to know about them selves.

where are all the sane people ?

[TWINCANS]

Re: Josephus. We covered (below for THREAD) some of the differing views on what Josephus wrote, and what was likely embellished by early Christians. There was a lot of editorializing going on in the dark ages. (like it doesn't now?!)

THREAD: Christ Has Returned???? see POST 166 and thereabouts for the discussion.

The phrase 'so-called Christ' was used in some translations to describe the new sect's leader the man Jesus. (or as rightly pointed out Jeshua ben Joseph

[Teakai]

as Buddhism started with Buddha so Christianity started with Christ

their teachings passed down from the master to the disciples in an unbroken line 300 years before Constantine

so it's common sense and an undisputed established fact that Christianity existed long before Constantine


who in hell have you been listening to since you claim such nonsense ?

---

the Jews view Josephus as a traitor so perhaps he was Christian

Even Christian scholars agree that Esubius tampered with Josephus' writings. It would be more proof for their side if even a Jew should mention the existence of Christ - but it sort of counteracts itself because if Josephus did think Jesus was the Christ he would have converted - if he had converted would he have spent all that time on his massive work 'the antiquities of the Jews. The man was, by evidence of his writing, a devout Jew.

The agreement on the interference by the church to Josephus' work is not only on the grounds that though Jesus Christ is mentioned extraodinarily briefly in his writing and that the interjection comes across as contrived, but also that early writers following Josephus who, by evidence of their own writings had read his works, fail to mention the existence of Jesus Christ in their own - leading the Chrisitian scholars and others to conclude that they were added at a later time by a bishop who by his own admission was not against lying to further the cause of God.

So, there is still no evidence whatsoever of Christianity existing as a religion prior to Constantine.

I have read so much stuff. If you really want to know the truth of a thing it is wiser to look outside the propaganda.
If you look only at the pro-Christian writing you are bound to get a biased opinion.
This seems so obvious - I'm a little suprised you should ask the question.

By the way Buddhism is a philosophy - it was built around the teachings of a man named Siddharta Guatama. He didn't call it that and he wasn't called that.
If you look about there are many different takes on Buddhism now.

The thing is - there is the Truth. Jesus and the Buddha didn't have 2 different truths. That's what religion does.
It's built by men who don't know the truth and misinterpret the truth - and they give you religion.
The blind leading the blind.

[RedeZra]

Even Christian scholars agree that Esubius tampered with Josephus' writings. It would be more proof for their side if even a Jew should mention the existence of Christ - but it sort of counteracts itself because if Josephus did think Jesus was the Christ he would have converted - if he had converted would he have spent all that time on his massive work 'the antiquities of the Jews. The man was, by evidence of his writing, a devout Jew.


Josephus was a Jew and so was Jesus

Jesus did not convert to Christianity but he was the source and inspiration for the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers and their following who persevered in spite of 300 years of persecution from both the Jews and the Romans

Did Josephus who was a Jew like Jesus convert to Christianity ? I don't know

Josephus might just have been a Jewish historian writing and reporting about the culture tradition and history of his people


the quote from Josephus that I posted above is considered reliable by almost all scholars... but there is a passage in the Greek version of Antiquities of the Jews which authenticity is debated

it is called the 'Testimonium Flavianum' and reads like this...


Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. - Josephus in the Antiquities of the Jews 18.63-64


Josephus was born some years after the time and mission of Jesus Christ and most likely started his writing career after the destruction of the Jewish Second Temple in 70AD

at that time the tribe of Christians would be few with a low profile policy and so Josephus would not know much about them


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus




I have read so much stuff. If you really want to know the truth of a thing it is wiser to look outside the propaganda.
If you look only at the pro-Christian writing you are bound to get a biased opinion.
This seems so obvious - I'm a little suprised you should ask the question.

so instead you choose to rely on biased anti-Christian propaganda ?

if you believe that the well of information and the source links in wikipedia is pro-Christian propaganda than you're wrong again




By the way Buddhism is a philosophy - it was built around the teachings of a man named Siddharta Guatama. He didn't call it that and he wasn't called that.
If you look about there are many different takes on Buddhism now.

of course Siddharta was called Buddha and so it's natural to call his teachings Buddhism and his followers Buddhists

Buddhism has now just like Christianity many branches but the root and the stem is the same





The thing is - there is the Truth. Jesus and the Buddha didn't have 2 different truths. That's what religion does.
It's built by men who don't know the truth and misinterpret the truth - and they give you religion.
The blind leading the blind.

Jesus and Buddha taught the same truths

Buddha was mostly concerned with those with little dust in their eyes

while Jesus was mostly concerned with those who had become blinded by all the dust in their eyes


it's only normal and natural that the techings have become somewhat twisted after 2000 years


if the eyes are covered with little dust only then one might comprehend the teachings of Buddha

Jesus is for all and everybody as he gave up his Divine life so that we might live

[Teakai]

Even Christian scholars agree that Esubius tampered with Josephus' writings. It would be more proof for their side if even a Jew should mention the existence of Christ - but it sort of counteracts itself because if Josephus did think Jesus was the Christ he would have converted - if he had converted would he have spent all that time on his massive work 'the antiquities of the Jews. The man was, by evidence of his writing, a devout Jew.


Josephus was a Jew and so was Jesus

Jesus did not convert to Christianity but he was the source and inspiration for the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers and their following who persevered in spite of 300 years of persecution from both the Jews and the Romans

Did Josephus who was a Jew like Jesus convert to Christianity ? I don't know

Josephus might just have been a Jewish historian writing and reporting about the culture tradition and history of his people


the quote from Josephus that I posted above is considered reliable by almost all scholars... but there is a passage in the Greek version of Antiquities of the Jews which authenticity is debated

it is called the 'Testimonium Flavianum' and reads like this...


Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. - Josephus in the Antiquities of the Jews 18.63-64


Josephus was born some years after the time and mission of Jesus Christ and most likely started his writing career after the destruction of the Jewish Second Temple in 70AD

at that time the tribe of Christians would be few with a low profile policy and so Josephus would not know much about them


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus




I have read so much stuff. If you really want to know the truth of a thing it is wiser to look outside the propaganda.
If you look only at the pro-Christian writing you are bound to get a biased opinion.
This seems so obvious - I'm a little suprised you should ask the question.

so instead you choose to rely on biased anti-Christian propaganda ?

if you believe that the well of information and the source links in wikipedia is pro-Christian propaganda than you're wrong again




By the way Buddhism is a philosophy - it was built around the teachings of a man named Siddharta Guatama. He didn't call it that and he wasn't called that.
If you look about there are many different takes on Buddhism now.

of course Siddharta was called Buddha and so it's natural to call his teachings Buddhism and his followers Buddhists

Buddhism has now just like Christianity many branches but the root and the stem is the same





The thing is - there is the Truth. Jesus and the Buddha didn't have 2 different truths. That's what religion does.
It's built by men who don't know the truth and misinterpret the truth - and they give you religion.
The blind leading the blind.

Jesus and Buddha taught the same truths

Buddha was mostly concerned with those with little dust in their eyes

while Jesus was mostly concerned with those who had become blinded by all the dust in their eyes


it's only normal and natural that the techings have become somewhat twisted after 2000 years


if the eyes are covered with little dust only then one might comprehend the teachings of Buddha

Jesus is for all and everybody as he gave up his Divine life so that we might live

People couldn't live prior to that , then? Only Christians get to live because they believe that Jesus died to save them? What about the Buddha? Did he get saved without Jesus?

Are you seeing yet that there is no sense to this bizarre thinking?

As far as the versions of the history of the Christian religion goes - there will always be discrepancies and we have little chance of agreeing on what is truth and what is not. However, even the bible itself is riddled with inconsistency and obvious tampering.

[RedeZra]

Jesus is for all and everybody as he gave up his Divine life so that we might live

People couldn't live prior to that , then? Only Christians get to live because they believe that Jesus died to save them? What about the Buddha? Did he get saved without Jesus?


a Buddha doesn't need a Jesus to get saved


Buddha points to the path of enlightenment but you have to walk it

Jesus points to the path to Heaven but you have to walk it


it's very hard to achieve enlightenment if one cannot even reach Heaven ; )

[Teakai]

Jesus is for all and everybody as he gave up his Divine life so that we might live

People couldn't live prior to that , then? Only Christians get to live because they believe that Jesus died to save them? What about the Buddha? Did he get saved without Jesus?


a Buddha doesn't need a Jesus to get saved


Buddha points to the path of enlightenment but you have to walk it

Jesus points to the path to Heaven but you have to walk it


it's very hard to achieve enlightenment if one cannot even reach Heaven ; )

So, by this reasoning, Jesus didn't need to die for anyone's sins then? People could just practise the teachings of Buddhsim and achieve an even better result?

[RedeZra]

So, by this reasoning, Jesus didn't need to die for anyone's sins then? People could just practise the teachings of Buddhsim and achieve an even better result?

Jesus has made it very simple for us to reach Heaven

we just have to walk his talk and confide in him


those that walk the Buddha talk will also get there

as the teachings are the same


God is sending great souls all the time to teach every culture in every corner of the world and even a Buddha is on a mission from God


I'm not going to argue with God about why Jesus had to die the way he did

there is a Big picture and much information that I'm not privy to yet

[Teakai]

Jesus has made it very simple for us to reach Heaven

we just have to walk his talk and confide in him


those that walk the Buddha talk will also get there

as the teachings are the same


God is sending great souls all the time to teach every culture in every corner of the world and even a Buddha is on a mission from God


I'm not going to argue with God about why Jesus had to die the way he did

there is a Big picture and much information that I'm not privy to yet

Ohhhh, so when the church tells Christians (or anyone) that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation..they're lying?

[RedeZra]

Ohhhh, so when the church tells Christians (or anyone) that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation..they're lying?

it's a sure easy way to salvation... but not the only way ; )

[Teakai]

Ohhhh, so when the church tells Christians (or anyone) that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation..they're lying?

it's a sure easy way to salvation... but not the only way ; )

So, they're lying.


Makes you wonder about all the other stuff they're lying about.

[RedeZra]

it's a sure easy way to salvation... but not the only way ; )

So, they're lying.


perhaps they don't know better

people should stop pitting religion against religion and rather notice the similarities and embrace the richness in which God speaks to humanity

[Teakai]

...

CHECKMATE!!!!!

:lol:

That was fun. We should do it again sometime. :)

[RedeZra]

...

CHECKMATE!!!!!

:lol:

That was fun. We should do it again sometime. :)

did you just checkmate me after your king is off the board ; )

[Teakai]

it's a sure easy way to salvation... but not the only way ; )

So, they're lying.


perhaps they don't know better

people should stop pitting religion against religion and rather notice the similarities and embrace the richness in which God speaks to humanity

Are you reading what you type?

It's already CHECKMA-A-A-A-ATE - you don't have to try to win the game for me.

Anyway, isn't it the religious themselves who do the pitting against each other - by believing things told to them by people who "don't know any better" and to whom they have handed over responsibilty of their spiritual well being that, "Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation."

¤=[Post Update]=¤




...

CHECKMATE!!!!!

:lol:

That was fun. We should do it again sometime. :)

did you just checkmate me after your king is off the board ; )

:lol: pffft, can you tell me just when that happened, because I missed it.
(Your bishop probably stole it.)

[RedeZra]

Anyway, isn't it the religious themselves who do the pitting against each other - by believing things told to them by people who "don't know any better" and to whom they have handed over responsibilty of their spiritual well being that, "Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation."

but Jesus Christ is a sure easy way to salvation so Christianity is not in the wrong here

besides it would be strange if Christianity was to promote Buddhism or any other religion


take refuge in righteousness and we will be well ; )

[Teakai]

Anyway, isn't it the religious themselves who do the pitting against each other - by believing things told to them by people who "don't know any better" and to whom they have handed over responsibilty of their spiritual well being that, "Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation."

but Jesus Christ is a sure easy way to salvation so Christianity is not in the wrong here

besides it would be strange if Christianity was to promote Buddhism or any other religion


take refuge in righteousness and we will be well ; )

Ah, but there's the rub, innit?
What is righteousness? Who decides? Can you act 'righteous' when your heart is seething? Is it righteous to smile and be bright when you really want to spit in someone's face?
Is it righteous to be gracious to your neighbour while he is beating his wife?
Who dictates this righteousnous? Those who "don't know any better"?

Believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins would be the easy way, if you could actually convince yourself that that really did happen.
But that's not true. And believing it to be true will keep one ignorant of the truth.

Between the two lies an ocean of difference - and one of them won't get you automatic salvation and the attainment of the other is not taught overtly in the Chrisitan religion.
Jesus says it best when he says that the greatest of commandments is to love the lord YOUR God with all your heart and your neighbour as you love yourself - but how can a Chrsitian do that when their religion is pitting him against his fellow man by decreeing itself to be the only way to salvation?

Paradox.

[greybeard]

Jesus is for all and everybody as he gave up his Divine life so that we might live

People couldn't live prior to that , then? Only Christians get to live because they believe that Jesus died to save them? What about the Buddha? Did he get saved without Jesus?


a Buddha doesn't need a Jesus to get saved


Buddha points to the path of enlightenment but you have to walk it

Jesus points to the path to Heaven but you have to walk it


it's very hard to achieve enlightenment if one cannot even reach Heaven ; )

The religion of Christianity is some what ignorant of the knowledge of sages of other beliefs
Have had conversations with some in India I was a amazed a how well they understood the teaching of Jesus.

Several books I read by Western Authors explained that the culture of Jesus time and place had some chance of understanding his teaching, however the concept of enlightenment as taught by eastern sages would have been a step too far.

Also pointed out by these Western Authors, in particular Dr David Hawkins.
Heaven is a place to go between lives but you come back here to complete the journey of the soul.
When Enlightenment occurs this is your last time at The University of Earth.
No teaching is superior or better--- its a question of which is appropriate to the seeming individual soul.

Some followers of Christ do become enlightened but most Christians see God and Christ as transcendent--- out there.

The Enlightened Sage knows God as immanent--internal.

Thats the basic difference

Christ also knew God as internal--- The Father and I are one.
Some Christians would think anyone other than Christ claiming to be One with the Father would be blasphemous.
Yet Christ was clear in his teaching.
Any one can aspire to Christ Consciousness which is the same a enlightenment.

Chris

[RedeZra]

Believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins would be the easy way, if you could actually convince yourself that that really did happen.
But that's not true.


it's a truth alright ; )

it happend just as the Apostles wrote in the Book


God decides what's right and wrong of course and the religions manage these Divine decrees and convey it to the people


it happens that human caretakers of the religions add and subtract stuff but all in all it's pretty basic and since it is Divine decrees there is great power and authority behind them ; )

[Teakai]

it's a truth alright ; )

it happend just as the Apostles wrote in the Book


God decides what's right and wrong of course and the religions manage these Divine decrees and convey it to the people


it happens that human caretakers of the religions add and subtract stuff but all in all it's pretty basic and since it is Divine decrees there is great power and authority behind them ; )

Okey dokey.

The church has been shown to abuse,lie, steal and kill - but it didn't alter any of the bible. Not even in the 16th century when King James did whatever he did with it - and Jesus did die for your sins and all you gotta do is believe he did because the church says so and then you will be saved.

So, why aren't you a Christian, then?

[RedeZra]

Some followers of Christ do become enlightened but most Christians see God and Christ as transcendent--- out there.


enlightenment or emancipation or liberation is such a rare event that we would be lucky to live in the same time with such an enlightened one

I'm not saying there is no such alive today but it's extremely rare


first we attach ourselves to a Divine form and name

so to not get lost

then when the soul is ripe and ready

everything must be given up

even the soul ; )

[RedeZra]

The church has been shown to abuse,lie, steal and kill



Christianity has been under heavy attack by the Adversary and his minions from the get go

it is split and infiltrated by unbelievers reaching positions of power a long time ago and so it is engaged with an enemy within


much of what we read about Christianity today is just smear and twisted truths

as the PTB are not Christians at all ; )

[Teakai]

Some followers of Christ do become enlightened but most Christians see God and Christ as transcendent--- out there.


enlightenment or emancipation or liberation is such a rare event that we would be lucky to live in the same time with such an enlightened one

I'm not saying there is no such alive today but it's extremely rare


first we attach ourselves to a Divine form and name

so to not get lost

then when the soul is ripe and ready

everything must be given up

even the soul ; )

And that is exactly the misleading thinking that the Chrisitian religion gives - that divinity is to be found outside and not in.
It keeps people lost.

We are already divinity.
We have to know ourself and looking outward to a religious icon is putting us on the wrong path.
We cannot give up the soul.
We are the soul.
The soul will shed the ego.
Religion will hold a person in ego illusion.

[RedeZra]

first we attach ourselves to a Divine form and name

so to not get lost



And that is exactly the misleading thinking that the Chrisitian religion gives - that divinity is to be found outside and not in.
It keeps people lost.


Divinity is everywhere but one can realize it within oneself ; )

Divinity is Infinite consciousness but since we have a hard time relating to formless nameless things then Divinity presents us with Divine names and forms but it's still within us and within everything really

[Teakai]

The church has been shown to abuse,lie, steal and kill



Christianity has been under heavy attack by the Adversary and his minions from the get go

it is split and infiltrated by unbelievers reaching positions of power a long time ago and so it is engaged with an enemy within


much of what we read about Christianity today is just smear and twisted truths

as the PTB are not Christians at all ; )

The ptb gave you the Christian religion. It's just a front for their own belief system.
Just look at all the pagan symbology in the Pope's outfit.

When you focus all that energy out to that religious God - where is it really being focused?
People are giving away their power and they don;t even know what to.
They think it's God.
Which God?
Whose God?

Your God is within.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Divinity is everywhere but one can realize it within oneself ; )

The whole point is to realise it within oneself.

[RedeZra]

The ptb gave you the Christian religion. It's just a front for their own belief system.
Just look at all the pagan symbology in the Pope's outfit.


Christ gave us Christianity

and it's still speaking truths to us


if you don't like it then don't bother with it

you're free to do your own thing ; )

[Teakai]

Christ gave us Christianity

and it's still speaking truths to us


if you don't like it then don't bother with it

you're free to do your own thing ; )

:)
Thank you for such fine advice.
And I hereby give you permission to do your own thing, too.

Curiously, though - as you do believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins - why aren't you a Christian?

[RedeZra]

And I hereby give you permission to do your own thing, too.

Curiously, though - as you do believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins - why aren't you a Christian?

tnx Teakai I appreciate that ; )

I don't identify with a particular religion as I recognize the Divinity in Krishna Buddha Jesus etc

besides they all teach righteousness so I have taken refuge in that vehicle if you like

[RedeZra]

Constantine leaves only coins with Sol Invictus on them - not Jesus.


it's good that Constantine didn't profane and embarrass Heaven by depicting Jesus on coins

besides Constantine's official coinage only continues to bear images of Sol until 326


the Romans had a plethora of gods and goddesses so in the beginning Christ posed as Sol to bring victory to Constantine and ease the transition from Roman idolatry to Christianity ; )

[Teakai]

tnx Teakai I appreciate that ; )

I don't identify with a particular religion as I recognize the Divinity in Krishna Buddha Jesus etc

besides they all teach righteousness so I have taken refuge in that vehicle if you like

Thanks for answering, Redezra.
Though it sounds as though you take your refuge from without rather than within.
And so long as one does that then they are not loving 'their own God'. (Which is what Jesus told them to do)
See how religion can twist the meaning. Now we have Buddha and Jesus speaking the same language.
But if Jesus is saying there is a God and the Buddha is saying there is no God - then they are not saying the same thing.
And there is only Truth.
We must find the meeting place.

Do you feel righteousness is only to be found in religion or do we each know within our own hearts what it is and what it isn't?

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his sceptics hat...
@Teakai & Redzra loving the exchange despite the topic derail!! :fencing:

"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
Thats quite a stunt to fit so many instructions into just one 'word' :peep:

Since words have sound/energy/form anyone who then proceeds to write them down has altered that sound/energy/form and has thus disobeyed a commandment from the big boss no? :pound:

Pertaining to the topic...

But the house of Israel will not listen to you, because they will not listen to Me.... Ezekial 3:7-11 has interesting implications for the idea that earth(israel) is the house of man assuming you believe the god myth.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

A better question: Is all of the Earth Palestine???......

[TWINCANS]

Constantine leaves only coins with Sol Invictus on them - not Jesus.


it's good that Constantine didn't profane and embarrass Heaven by depicting Jesus on coins
Do you really believe that he cared about something like that? He was the Supreme Emperor and supreme ruler of all he surveyed etc. If he belived Jesus caould help his cause he would have put him on he coins, not Sol Invictus.

besides Constantine's official coinage only continues to bear images of Sol until 326


the Romans had a plethora of gods and goddesses so in the beginning Christ posed as Sol to bring victory to Constantine and ease the transition from Roman idolatry to Christianity ; )[/QUOTE]

OK not how do you know that? Did you get the Coles Notes sent from on high? Did the son of god feel obliged to write you to explain his motivations?

[RedeZra]

the Romans had a plethora of gods and goddesses so in the beginning Christ posed as Sol to bring victory to Constantine and ease the transition from Roman idolatry to Christianity ; )

OK not how do you know that? Did you get the Coles Notes sent from on high? Did the son of god feel obliged to write you to explain his motivations?

Constantine put an end to the persecutions of Christians and empowered Christianity throughout the Roman Empire

Christ and Constantine just posed and used one of the Roman gods Sol so that the Big pagan empire which was Rome would not rebel but accept Constantine as the new Roman emperor

Call it Heavenly cleverly ; )

[RedeZra]

Though it sounds as though you take your refuge from without rather than within.

righteousness is to think say and do what is right ; )



But if Jesus is saying there is a God and the Buddha is saying there is no God - then they are not saying the same thing.

Buddha never denied the existence of God because he was not a fool lol

the people already had a plethora of gods and goddesses all the way up to the Triune Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva


after Buddha had pierced through the veil of Maya or Ignorance he didn't want to speak at all but the gods n goddesses begged him and God commanded him so he spoke

about this scientific-practical approach to enlightenment which we know as Buddhism ; )





Do you feel righteousness is only to be found in religion or do we each know within our own hearts what it is and what it isn't?

it's imprinted in our hearts and in the back of our heads

but it's possible for people to ignore it or mistake it for softness

so religion is here to remind us ; )

[Teakai]

Constantine put an end to the persecutions of Christians and empowered Christianity throughout the Roman Empire

Christ and Constantine just posed and used one of the Roman gods Sol so that the Big pagan empire which was Rome would not rebel but accept Constantine as the new Roman emperor

Call it Heavenly cleverly ; )

Well, yeah. Because it was his newly constructed religion. He was all for persecuting the Jews, though (Hey, wasn't Jesus a Jew?)
He-e-e-ey, didn't Jesus say to love your fellow man and turn the other cheek?

Constantine's motto seems to be do as I say, not as I do, which shows how little he believed the dogma himself.

When (if) the NWO bring in their new age religion - do you think those who sign up for it are going to get the perks and those who don't are going to get persecuted?

Or will people fight and rebel as much as they did when Christianity became the new age religion?

[Teakai]

Buddha never denied the existence of God because he was not a fool lol

the people already had a plethora of gods and goddesses all the way up to the Triune Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva


after Buddha had pierced through the veil of Maya or Ignorance he didn't want to speak at all but the gods n goddesses begged him and God commanded him so he spoke

about this scientific-practical approach to enlightenment which we know as Buddhism ; )

The Buddha didn't teach about a God.

Siddharta Guatama – left religious constructs behind to find the Truth. He himself chose to stay in this realm and help others.

Any system of belief, whether it is a belief in the Darwinian theory or the creationist theory is still a belief system.
And a belief system is a construct of ego.

Adopt a belief system and you are simply choosing where you want to be stuck.



it's imprinted in our hearts and in the back of our heads

but it's possible for people to ignore it or mistake it for softness

so religion is here to remind us ; )

Remind us by having us look outside out own heads and hearts?

You know – I can see how you can think religion is nice. You go to church and the priest says things that make you feel you ought to be kinder, nicer etc.
And it’s so comforting to be told that there is a kindly man watching over us who loves us.
And that’s not so bad.
However, it’s fake.
It will keep people trapped within the cycle of reincarnation because they will not make the ‘real’ connection – because they think they already have it.

Organised religion is a bandaid. It teaches that the answer is outside. It's got people looking in the wrong place.

All one needs is to know who they are. They are the temple.

Thought: Is Israel, perhaps, the human?

[thunder24]

the kingdom of heaven is within you, how hard is that to accept?

peace

[Unified Serenity]

It seems to me that Jesus would not recognize what has become of his teachings as embodied but the "church" as a whole. Jesus was a Jew first and formost. He kept the commandments and upon his death the sacrificial system was satisfied per the bible. The precepts and statutes remained though. The messianic religion if you will was nothing like christianity became. Constantine and the non-Jewish believers wanted to remove all aspects of Jewish law and tradition that looked like Judaism. They substituted other "holy" days for the feasts of the Lord. Sure they wanted to convert the unwashed, but the beauty of Passover remains as the freedom from bondage as well as the other feasts all show a beauty of life, a sacred path, and an obedient heart. I think many in the alternative community cannot stand the idea of obedience. It smacks of no free will, but if you love someone with all your heart and soul you would not want to cause them pain. The first law emcompasses all the other laws and that is to love the Lord your God and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. If we loved one another with such devotion we could not bear to lie, steal, kill, or do any number of wrongful things to each other. We are a very stubborn people and we hopefully will learn how to love one another one day. Jesus also said people would know they were his followers by the love they show one to another.

Most christians that I know do not have a clue about the Jewish idioms spoken of in the bible. They don't care to understand the imagery of the parables of the fig tree or the wheat and tares. They know what they have been taught all their life by their pastors and teachers. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying that many are not following in Jesus' footsteps. Heck, they can't even keep the Sabbath holy. I am reminded of Ghandi who said something like, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[Teakai]

It seems to me that Jesus would not recognize what has become of his teachings as embodied but the "church" as a whole. Jesus was a Jew first and formost. He kept the commandments and upon his death the sacrificial system was satisfied per the bible. The precepts and statutes remained though. The messianic religion if you will was nothing like christianity became. Constantine and the non-Jewish believers wanted to remove all aspects of Jewish law and tradition that looked like Judaism. They substituted other "holy" days for the feasts of the Lord. Sure they wanted to convert the unwashed, but the beauty of Passover remains as the freedom from bondage as well as the other feasts all show a beauty of life, a sacred path, and an obedient heart. I think many in the alternative community cannot stand the idea of obedience. It smacks of no free will, but if you love someone with all your heart and soul you would not want to cause them pain. The first law emcompasses all the other laws and that is to love the Lord your God and the second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself. If we loved one another with such devotion we could not bear to lie, steal, kill, or do any number of wrongful things to each other. We are a very stubborn people and we hopefully will learn how to love one another one day. Jesus also said people would know they were his followers by the love they show one to another.

Most christians that I know do not have a clue about the Jewish idioms spoken of in the bible. They don't care to understand the imagery of the parables of the fig tree or the wheat and tares. They know what they have been taught all their life by their pastors and teachers. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying that many are not following in Jesus' footsteps. Heck, they can't even keep the Sabbath holy. I am reminded of Ghandi who said something like, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I hear what you're saying, Unified Serenity - however, the confusion arises in regard to God and what it is. To be told to love God with all your heart - how does one do that, when they do not understand what God is. Is God a man with a long beard who sits in a throne in the sky? Is God ajealous God as in the OT - How does one who does not understand what is God, then love God?

Unless a person finds that kingdom within - then it's only an egoic idea of love projected onto whatever it is they conceive God to be - and even if the intention is good - it is by way of the ego judgment and not by way of obedience to one's inner Truth.

And if one finds that kingdom, then they know that it is within all men because they recognise it in all others and it is not confined by the bounds of organised religion. And because they realise this connection - then they can truly love others as themselves.

[Humble Janitor]

Furthermore IMHO subjecting children to these myths as if they are true is tandamount to child abuse. Religion pollutes the brain and the objective observation of reality like nothing else. The great HE in the sky is the creator? Tell me, have you ever seen a man give birth? End of. There is no more powerful mind control than religion.

I thought it was the illuminati and the secret orders of the past who Manipulated the religions themselves to be violent. There are many "Christians," out there who will tell you that the Catholic Church coming out of Rome in no way represents the "True," Christian beliefs.

Those "christians" are themselves hypocrites, charlatans and any other vulgar name you can think of.

There is no PURE religion.

They are ALL corrupted and they ALL will lead people astray (as they have already).

I am so sick and tired and hearing about "Jesus this" and "Jesus that".

ENOUGH.

[RedeZra]

Constantine put an end to the persecutions of Christians and empowered Christianity throughout the Roman Empire



Well, yeah. Because it was his newly constructed religion. He was all for persecuting the Jews, though (Hey, wasn't Jesus a Jew?)
He-e-e-ey, didn't Jesus say to love your fellow man and turn the other cheek?

Constantine did not persecute the Jews

why do you make things up and then start spinning arguments based on air and empty premises ?

Constantine did not persecute the Jews


I'm sorry but you have too little knowledge about our human history culture and tradition

You seem to just invent things as you go along lol

[RedeZra]

Those "christians" are themselves hypocrites, charlatans and any other vulgar name you can think of.

There is no PURE religion.

They are ALL corrupted and they ALL will lead people astray (as they have already).

I am so sick and tired and hearing about "Jesus this" and "Jesus that".

ENOUGH.

of course there is no pure religion as human taints it with their blind ignorance

and for you to call every Christians charletans says nothing about Christians but alot about you


if you don't like the topic and the talk then stay out of it as I'm not here to entertain you

[Teakai]

Constantine did not persecute the Jews

why do you make things up and then start spinning arguments based on air and empty premises ?

Constantine did not persecute the Jews


I'm sorry but you have too little knowledge about our human history culture and tradition

You seem to just invent things as you go along lol

Redezra - I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're starting to debate like those people who have no actual debate. You know, the one's who use insults and say words like p..p. presumptuous - but have nothing of actual substance to put forth?

Just thought I'd let you know.

However, your comment is absolutely stunning considering the irony of it.
Maybe you should have a quick read of this:
http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/seaver/text.html

Part 2 is all about Jewish persecution by the Christians.

And, if that's not enough just google 'Jewish persecution by Constantine' and take your pick.

Christians blamed the Jews for killing Jesus - you seriously think they wouldn't be given a hard time of it?

You seem to have idealised an ideology that simply does not measure up.

[felixq78]

Don't confuse the childish, medieval interpretations of what the ancient books have within their pages with the cutting edge discoveries in hyper-dimensional physics. Drop the word "God" and replace it with "consciousness" or "the divine matrix" . Remove guilt, fear and "hell" and we'll discover that we are talking about the same subject.
In a short time science will validate the existence of a conscious universe and we'll be able to dump religion.

[RedeZra]

Redezra - I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're starting to debate like those people who have no actual debate. You know, the one's who use insults and say words like p..p. presumptuous - but have nothing of actual substance to put forth?


if we at least base our premises upon somewhat established facts then it's possible to engage in a fruitful debate ; )

again Constantine (272–337) did not persecute the Jews !


Roman emperors after Constantine did restrict some of the rights of the Jews but Constantine proclaimed religious toleration in the Roman Empire with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD



this might be the only law issued by Constantine conserning the Jews



I. Laws of Constantine the Great, October 18, 315: Concerning Jews, Heaven-Worshippers,* And Samaritans

We wish to make it known to the Jews and their elders and their patriarchs that if, after the enactment of this law, any one of them dares to attack with stones or some other manifestation of anger another who has fled their dangerous sect and attached himself to the worship of God [Christianity], he must speedily be given to the flames and burn~ together with all his accomplices.

Moreover, if any one of the population should join their abominable sect and attend their meetings, he will bear with them the deserved penalties.

*Heaven-Worshippers were a sect closely allied to Judaism.


so Constantine forbade the Jews to stone people

[RedeZra]

Drop the word "God" and replace it with "consciousness" or "the divine matrix" . Remove guilt, fear and "hell" and we'll discover that we are talking about the same subject.


God is consciousness and so are you me and everybody... still there is a difference between God consciousness and ordinary human consciousness

God consciousness is like the sea while human consciousness is like a drop of the sea ; )

[Unified Serenity]

Some very good points and discussion going on in this thread, thanks for keeping it to the topic and not taking pot shots at other's. I was always admonished by my elders to never talk about politics or religion in social company, but alas I do enjoy a good discussion based on well thought out points and not pure emotionalism.

Christianity has been so ridiculed the past few decades that it's perfectly ok to see christians portrayed in t.v. and movies as lunatics, hate mongers, close minded idiots that whenever a topic arises and a sincere christian seeks to share they are drummed down and you can almost hear the snickers. I do not write from a point of view as a bible belt Southern Baptist, Charismatic, Catholic or any other denomination. Just the word denomination shows the disfunction in this so called body of Christ. Each denomination is just more proof of squabbling amongst fellow christians as what is the truth and true path in following their beloved Messiah Jesus. No, I write from a purely point of fact basis on what I do believe the bible says, the environment it was written in, and from studying it in the original languages for many years. No, I am not fluent in Hebrew, Chaldea or Greek, but there are tools and if one learns grammar rules, one can rightly divide the words and know what it says. Now, whether or not I agree with it is another story.

Then as Teakai said, sometimes it's just the semantics and the use of the word(s) for God and whether one uses masculine or feminine words as well. It just doesn't feel right to me to say "it". In my experiences, God is a definate something with a personality. God does not feel like some automoton following some computer code. There is vast love, caring, and a whole other plane of consciousness surrounding us all eminating from that source. For me we are all from that source. So whether you like the word divinity, God, Goddess, Source, Higher Power, The One really does not matter to me. Though it is good to understand each person's perspective as words definately can mean differenty things to different people. Just try to have a bible debate with a JW. They use the same words with completely different meanings. I'm not putting them down, it's just one fact I learned long ago whenever they'd knock on my door and I cared to engage them.

Again, thanks for the discussion.

[Teakai]

if we at least base our premises upon somewhat established facts then it's possible to engage in a fruitful debate ; )

again Constantine (272–337) did not persecute the Jews !


Roman emperors after Constantine did restrict some of the rights of the Jews but Constantine proclaimed religious toleration in the Roman Empire with the Edict of Milan in 313 AD



this might be the only law issued by Constantine conserning the Jews



I. Laws of Constantine the Great, October 18, 315: Concerning Jews, Heaven-Worshippers,* And Samaritans


We wish to make it known to the Jews and their elders and their patriarchs that if, after the enactment of this law, any one of them dares to attack with stones or some other manifestation of anger another who has fled their dangerous sect and attached himself to the worship of God [Christianity], he must speedily be given to the flames and burn~ together with all his accomplices.

Moreover, if any one of the population should join their abominable sect and attend their meetings, he will bear with them the deserved penalties.

*Heaven-Worshippers were a sect closely allied to Judaism.


so Constantine forbade the Jews to stone people

No – that law only bans them from stoning someone who has become Christian.
That very same decree sounds like it’s also banning anyone from ‘joining their abominable sect’ or from going to their meetings.

Have you read the bible? The one that the R/C church put together? Pretty damning for the Jews.

I don’t know how persecuted the Jews were prior to this, but they’ve been persecuted ever since.

Back atcha with -" if we at least base our premises upon somewhat established facts then it's possible to engage in a fruitful debate ; )"

I do realise Jews persecuted others as well - it's what religions do.

[Teakai]

Some very good points and discussion going on in this thread, thanks for keeping it to the topic and not taking pot shots at other's. I was always admonished by my elders to never talk about politics or religion in social company, but alas I do enjoy a good discussion based on well thought out points and not pure emotionalism.

Christianity has been so ridiculed the past few decades that it's perfectly ok to see christians portrayed in t.v. and movies as lunatics, hate mongers, close minded idiots that whenever a topic arises and a sincere christian seeks to share they are drummed down and you can almost hear the snickers. I do not write from a point of view as a bible belt Southern Baptist, Charismatic, Catholic or any other denomination. Just the word denomination shows the disfunction in this so called body of Christ. Each denomination is just more proof of squabbling amongst fellow christians as what is the truth and true path in following their beloved Messiah Jesus. No, I write from a purely point of fact basis on what I do believe the bible says, the environment it was written in, and from studying it in the original languages for many years. No, I am not fluent in Hebrew, Chaldea or Greek, but there are tools and if one learns grammar rules, one can rightly divide the words and know what it says. Now, whether or not I agree with it is another story.

Then as Teakai said, sometimes it's just the semantics and the use of the word(s) for God and whether one uses masculine or feminine words as well. It just doesn't feel right to me to say "it". In my experiences, God is a definate something with a personality. God does not feel like some automoton following some computer code. There is vast love, caring, and a whole other plane of consciousness surrounding us all eminating from that source. For me we are all from that source. So whether you like the word divinity, God, Goddess, Source, Higher Power, The One really does not matter to me. Though it is good to understand each person's perspective as words definately can mean differenty things to different people. Just try to have a bible debate with a JW. They use the same words with completely different meanings. I'm not putting them down, it's just one fact I learned long ago whenever they'd knock on my door and I cared to engage them.

Again, thanks for the discussion.

Hi Unified Serenity - I think this is due to social conditioning by the 'ptw.' It's a way of softening up the people's minds so they will be more susceptible to adopting the new religion for the age of aquarius.

So far it's a gentle form of persecution and ridicule for the Christians.
And the Christians retaliate by demeaning the new age (nuage) lot.

This is a cycle which is carried out through the changing of the ages.
The age of Taurus (represented by the golden calf) was taken over by Moses giving us the Jewish religion.
The age of Aries the ram was taken over by Jesus giving us the Christian religion.
The age of pisces is now about to be taken over by the age of the water bearer , aquarius giving us a new religion which will be given an attached history to accompany it.
But beneath it all it's still the same driving force dating back to the ancient mystery religions.

There will be a basis of truth within it - but it will be designed to keep people blinded from the Truth.

I always have good chats with the JW, (because I enjoy discussing theology and for the most part the audience is limited) - only I have noticed that they completely disregard any valid points raised. It's like their brain clicks off and they move onto another bible verse. They look like they're listening politely, but they're not really listening at all - they're just thinking of the next thing they're going to hit you with.

[RedeZra]

Have you read the bible? The one that the R/C church put together? Pretty damning for the Jews.



as you know the Bible is composed of the Old Testament and the New Testament


Christianity grew out of Judaism and so they both share the Old Testament

but the Jewish leaders did not accept Christ as the Messiah foretold in the OT so Christianity began with those few Jews who believed that Christ was the Messiah

the New Testament tells the story of Christ and the early beginnings of Christianity


perhaps you mean that the New Testament is damning for the Jews

since Christ is pretty harsh against the Jewish leaders... but then again the Sanhedrin silenced him at Calvary

[Teakai]

Have you read the bible? The one that the R/C church put together? Pretty damning for the Jews.



as you know the Bible is composed of the Old Testament and the New Testament


Christianity grew out of Judaism and so they both share the Old Testament

but the Jewish leaders did not accept Christ as the Messiah foretold in the OT so Christianity began with those few Jews who believed that Christ was the Messiah

the New Testament tells the story of Christ and the early beginnings of Christianity


perhaps you mean that the New Testament is damning for the Jews

since Christ is pretty harsh against the Jewish leaders... but then again the Sanhedrin silenced him at Calvary

Fine - the new testament is damning for the Jews. The Christian section of the bible. The part that persecutes the Jews and makes them the Jesus killers.

[RedeZra]

Fine - the new testament is damning for the Jews. The Christian section of the bible. The part that persecutes the Jews and makes them the Jesus killers.

the New Testament is not about Christian Jews persecuting Jews but is the story of Christ and early Christianity as told by the Apostles and the Seventy Disciples that were sent out by Christ to bring the Good news and heal the sick in body and spirit

the Jews are of course not Jesus killers and cannot be held accountable for what a few of their leaders did 2000 years ago

[Teakai]

the New Testament is not about Christian Jews persecuting Jews but is the story of Christ and early Christianity as told by the Apostles and the Seventy Disciples that were sent out by Christ to bring the Good news and heal the sick in body and spirit

the Jews are of course not Jesus killers and cannot be held accountable for what a few of their leaders did 2000 years ago

That would be the Christian version given to you by the church. We've already covered that part where the church have lied and murdered and deceived and have a history - including documentation by themselves - to prove it.

You may say that the Jews didn't kill Jesus and shouldn't be held responsible for what a few of their leaders did - but we're talking about the early days of the church and persecution where Christians took it very personally in regard to the Jews and what the bible story puts across as being done to him by their religion.

The bible lays the death of Jesus at the feet of Jews. Even 2000 years in the future the Christian bible has condemned the Jews to carry the stain of the death of their saviour.
And every Jew who continues to be a Jew is not recognising the Messiah.

[thunder24]

it wasn't written in english, so really the bible is iffy when using for facts
peace

[ghostrider]

ok,
This may mean nothing, but, for the last 3 weeks, an old mate of mine, who became a christian 10 years or so ago, and he's on fire for it, found me and from what he says, i'm ripe for being a christian, all i have to do is utter the words and thats it ,i'm saved, well it don't feel like that but i have a great respect for him and dont want him to feel bad, anyway, he brought 2 bibles, a book on God, and some lollys???, and they sat there on my table as he is coming most night's, but about a week ago, i just opened one of the bibles, just for a look, as i've heard you should just open one and you get inspired, well, the page i was on mentioned isreal, and the strangest thing happened, in my mind, no voice, just a thought told me that what we all know as God named the whole earth isreal, it is Gods name for the place, and as such, we are all isreali's, and God is unhappy at what is going on here, told you it was weird, but the thought seemed not my own, i told my mate, len ,this, he says its evil and all that, and i'm going to his church this sunday, i'll tell you what it was like, as i've never been to church in my life, maybe they will all burst into flames or summit,lol, but i thought i'd just share that with you all.

love and light always, hexen

sometimes the word Israel can also mean jacob. the council of nicea totally screwed with the ancient text.

[RedeZra]

the Jews are of course not Jesus killers and cannot be held accountable for what a few of their leaders did 2000 years ago

The bible lays the death of Jesus at the feet of Jews. Even 2000 years in the future the Christian bible has condemned the Jews to carry the stain of the death of their saviour.
And every Jew who continues to be a Jew is not recognising the Messiah.

it was foretold in the Old Testament that both the leaders of Jerusalem and the representative of Rome would together put him to death

so in that sense he just fulfilled Scripture

besides the Jews lost the Temple and their land just a few years after Jesus crucifixion... and so any Divine retribution was met there and then

[Unified Serenity]

Actually, it wasn't the "Jews" who did anything to Jesus. It was the Pharasees and scribes who hated him. The priests had an obligation per law to investigate any claims of Messiah. They had an actual order of investigation. First they sent some trusted members to go observe the said "Messiah". If things looked interesting they they were to ask him questions, and look for Messianic Miracles. Jesus spoke openly of who the scribes and pharasees really were. They were not even Jews, but people who moved into Judea from the house of Rechab who were Kenites. The Kenites are the sons of Cain. Lucifer is the father of Cain imho. They do the deeds of their father, are extremely obedient to following the rules of the curse placed upon Cain and his decendents. Jesus called them out many times. They killed him for it. They continue to this day to make the "Jews" look bad. They are not Jews and claim they are. I am my decendents if we remained of the same race would no quicker be Cherokees if we moved into their territory and lived amongst them. Sure it would be easier to pull off if we looked like them, but just moving somewhere and sneaking into some positions of authority would never make me or my decendents Cherokees.

The Kenites are the Tares of the bible. The parable of the fig tree and wheat and tares are key to this. I have layed the story out on here before, but very few are interested in it.

Serenity

[Teakai]

it was foretold in the Old Testament that both the leaders of Jerusalem and the representative of Rome would together put him to death

so in that sense he just fulfilled Scripture

besides the Jews lost the Temple and their land just a few years after Jesus crucifixion... and so any Divine retribution was met there and then

A friend of mine who is Christian is sure the end of times is right around the corner because all the signs of revelations are being fulfilled.

So he's just doing his thing, which is buying into the system, feeding the corporations, hating on the Moslems because he still thinks they're responsible for 911 and thinking this is all the will of God because it was foretold in the bible, when many of these scripture fulfilments are being brought about by the 'ptw' for that purpose.

When you are the ptb and you know the cycles of the planets and you know the secrets that are hidden from the plebs and you know how the human mind works and you have the resources to carry out pretty much whatever you want if you can keep people giving it their energy and their support you can do this.

When we get past this change over of the new age the history will be written to suit.

Your reasoning puzzles me. You may think it's retribution, but do you think that devout Christians would have forgiven the Killing of Jesus simply because the Jews lost their temple and their land? Especially so close to the "supossed' event?
These are people who because of their belief system flayed the skin from Hypatia with oyster shells.

Belief systems of all kinds brainwash people and stop them thinking critically. When people stop thinking critically they can do some ruddy horrible things to themselves and to each other.

[gsb67]

The whole world is Jerusalem :)

[161803398]

I dont think its a belief system that gets people to do things like flaying the skin with oyster shells etc etc etc. Its something else - something stranger that exists in people and I have to say I dont understand it. I think it is fear...but maybe a kind of fear I am not used to witnessing...and how does that degree of fear arise in people. I say this because in the last few years I have noticed some people behaving in ways I would never have thought possible in Canada....things that people would have called crazy even 10 years ago. They are acting on fear and its quite strange to see its effects.

[Teakai]

I dont think its a belief system that gets people to do things like flaying the skin with oyster shells etc etc etc. Its something else - something stranger that exists in people and I have to say I dont understand it. I think it is fear...but maybe a kind of fear I am not used to witnessing...and how does that degree of fear arise in people. I say this because in the last few years I have noticed some people behaving in ways I would never have thought possible in Canada....things that people would have called crazy even 10 years ago. They are acting on fear and its quite strange to see its effects.

I think you're right 161803398;248817 - perhaps it's fear to begin with which makes people want to cling to a system - religious or otherwise. Fear arises from the lower mind, not the higher mind.
And all sorts of horrors can come from that place.

[RedeZra]

A friend of mine who is Christian is sure the end of times is right around the corner because all the signs of revelations are being fulfilled.

it's not the end yet and I don't presume to know the if or when of end ; )


the PTB is guided by the same that tempted Jesus in the desert

he has been around for a long time and knows a thing or thousand that John Doe don't

he knows the Bible by heart and as he is very intelligent he can twist it to fit his agenda since so many don't bother to read the Bible

he is the father of lies and has many flies so I would not trust anybody to interpret the Bible for me




You may think it's retribution, but do you think that devout Christians would have forgiven the Killing of Jesus simply because the Jews lost their temple and their land?


I can't speak for every Christians up through history but I do know that their Champion spoke about giving and forgiving ; )

still the history of tension between Jews and Christians in Europe is not only religious but also financial and political... with accusations of blood libel well poisoning and host desecration etc


---




The Kenites are the Tares of the bible. The parable of the fig tree and wheat and tares are key to this. I have layed the story out on here before, but very few are interested in it.


I've seen that story here before and will have to look again... but if my memory serves me then there was a lack of evidence and an abundance of assumptions ; )

[Teakai]

the PTB is guided by the same that tempted Jesus in the desert

he has been around for a long time and knows a thing or thousand that John Doe don't

he knows the Bible by heart and as he is very intelligent he can twist it to fit his agenda since so many don't bother to read the Bible

he is the father of lies and has many flies so I would not trust anybody to interpret the Bible for me


Then why would you advocate others having the bible interpreted for them by the church?




I can't speak for every Christians up through history but I do know that their Champion spoke about giving and forgiving ; )

still the history of tension between Jews and Christians in Europe is not only religious but also financial and political... with accusations of blood libel well poisoning and host desecration etc

I know - is the hypsocrisy not blatantly obvious?
Jesus talks about love - there's no box for that. If you put it in a box - then it's limited, then it's not love. (at least, not the love Jesus was speaking about which wasn't egoic love because he said to love 'your' God)
Christians, by adopting the label of Christian have done that which the church wanted them to do, but which isn't at all what Jesus is/was talking about.

If it's between Christians and Jews then the bottom line is religion - even if it's religion used as a farce to acheive an ends.

In reality - there are no Chrisitans or Jews - there are just people who have differing systems of belief which seperate them from each other.

[RedeZra]

In reality - there are no Chrisitans or Jews - there are just people who have differing systems of belief which seperate them from each other.

Yes I agree

we are all first and foremost humans or souls having a human experience

these identity boxes of religion race and even sex goes to show how sorry the state of affairs are

but as long as there is a Jew there will be a Christian and a long as there is a Christian there will be a Jew

[Unified Serenity]

Redezra,

Speaking from biblical study of texts all one has to do is know who the Rechabites are, and follow them to Judea and see where they became the scribes. It's not rocket science. Look at 1chr 2:55 and Jeremial 35. Then look at how Jesus talked about them and who he said they served ie. their father. Some say that was all figurative, but if you trace it backwards to Cain and Abel and who did the works of their father it's easy enough to see.

Serenity

[Teakai]

Yes I agree

we are all first and foremost humans or souls having a human experience

these identity boxes of religion race and even sex goes to show how sorry the state of affairs are

but as long as there is a Jew there will be a Christian and a long as there is a Christian there will be a Jew

As long as people are disconnected from the Truth (which is within them) there will be organised religion and people will be able to have their minds manipulated and will allow all kinds of atrocities to occur in the name of that religion.

In which case, one has to wonder if it really is such a good idea to advocate for such practises.
:)

[RedeZra]

Speaking from biblical study of texts all one has to do is know who the Rechabites are, and follow them to Judea and see where they became the scribes. It's not rocket science. Look at 1chr 2:55 and Jeremial 35. Then look at how Jesus talked about them and who he said they served ie. their father. Some say that was all figurative, but if you trace it backwards to Cain and Abel and who did the works of their father it's easy enough to see.


but the Biblical flood wiped out all but Noah and his family and therfore it's Biblical improbable if not impossible to trace the Kenites back to Cain


in Genesis 15 at the time of Abraham there was a tribe called Kenites in Canaan

but during the long time that Israel was in Egypt the Kenites might have moved to Midian

since there is no mention of them as inhabitating Caanan at the time of the conquest


besides in Judges 1:16 Moses’ father-in-law is a Kenite and Moses married a daughter of Jethro a shepard priest in Median

therefore the Kenites came along with Israel back into Canaan

and their tribe was respected and revered by King Saul in 1 Sam. 15:6 and in Jeremiah 35:12-19 the Recabites of the Kenites are almost praised up to Heaven by YHWH himself


so all in all it's impossible to denigrate the Kenites based on the Bible ; )

[MoSh187]

I've seen that story here before and will have to look again... but if my memory serves me then there was a lack of evidence and an abundance of assumptions ; )

Gee that sounds a lot like the first section of the first zeitgeist film.