Help Needed: I seek advice from people I highly regard (you)

[Phoenix]

Dear All,

I seek words of wisdom from the great people that you all are. I’ll be succinct.

I’m a passionate undergraduate engineering student approaching my senior year at my university. My life goal is to positively influence as many people in the world that I possibly can.

My issue: I want to diverge from the pretty paved road, and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world in and gives a taste of several very different countries. But, being a full time student, I would pay for a large chunk of the program with my private student loan - which my parents sign. My parents are so out of touch and live the average American sheep roles. It breaks my heart to see them and my family as a whole so blind and close-minded… I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I make them see that the co-sign is worth it..

I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals.

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

EDIT: To clarify, I pay for every cent of my education, loans and all.

[T Smith]

Dear All,

I seek words of wisdom from the great people that you all are. I’ll be succinct.

I’m a passionate undergraduate engineering student approaching my senior year at my university. My life goal is to positively influence as many people in the world that I possibly can.

My issue: I want to diverge from the pretty paved road, and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world in and gives a taste of several very different countries. But, being a full time student, I would pay for a large chunk of the program with my private student loan - which my parents sign. My parents are so out of touch and live the average American sheep roles. It breaks my heart to see them and my family as a whole so blind and close-minded… I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I coerce my parents to co-sign the loan.

I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals.

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

What ideas do you have to positively influence people? Are your parents aligned with those ideas?

[Trinity]

G'day mate,

So encouraging to here someone whois so young yet so aware about what this journey is all about.. Inspiring others with positivity..!
As long as you pursue your ambitions you can rest assured that you are on the path of being all that you can be. Don't be distracted if those around you don't understand your path, they will come to understand you by the very fact that perhaps unlike them you followed your dreams.
Please remember that you brought yourself here on to this earth to inspire people.

Inspire your family too..!

regards brother..

t

[Omni]

Be honest with them IMO.

Let your heart show through, speak openly with them. Do some thinking about how to word it IMO. Carefully draw out what points you want to speak about, and what points you want to leave out(if any).

Oh and don't speak of conspiracy at all when telling them your plans IMHO lol. But you probably know that.

Make sure to mention your goals, to effect as many people as you can in a positive manner. If they are so lost they can't identify with that, I feel bad for them...

Also remember to look out for your future as well. If you are not setting up a career somehow by all of this, they might not sign the loan just based on that, as paying back a student loan without an income is pretty hard, or an 8$ an hour job. It may be better to finish your senior year.

Don't make the mistake I did and just think it will all work out for you(although it may), take action in making sure it happens. Securing a resume and an education takes the cake over exploring the world IMHO. You could do that later once you save up after you have finished your education and have a secure job. Not much is worse than having a no good resume and being seen as a loser by society, and what matters more, not having the money to buy good food or travel or enjoy certain things.

My advice is to finish the senior year, and graduate, find a job, and THEN seek out traveling the world and such. If it doesn't work out, you have something to fall back on. Once you have the diploma a lot more is possible. That might not be what you want to hear, but it's what I would do. I wish I had the opportunity to go to a university.

[sandy]

Dear Phoenix,

Sometimes respect doesn't come until one has achieved what they said they were going to do. Sometimes we have to risk losing respect and love for a while to achieve finding ourselves through living out what we truly believe is our passion. There are lessons for you and for those who love you but getting through them to a win/win situation will depend on your total sovereignty and living out your passion with out the aid and sometimes support of others, both financially and emotionally.

Big risks ahead for you my friend, I believe in you and your courage. :)

[Mark Aldebaran]

> I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I coerce my parents to co-sign the loan.
This sentence is your problem.

If your parents won't sign unless you coerce them (by misleading? dishonesty? physical threats?) then you have a lot to learn about human nature, integrity, your life and your purpose.
My suggestions are:
1) Finish education here, then go do what you like on your nickel.
2) Take a gap or two, work your way somewhere interesting, go explore, come back and finish off.
3) Say this out loud every day:
I know that truth cannot be fetched, any more than it can be avoided or enslaved, for truth only exists within.

[Lily de Cuir]

Hello Phoenix,

Firstly I admire your passion! Secondly, I had to baulk a little of the word 'coerce' (your parents to co-sign the loan). In my opinion, the first part of your journey is realising you need to be independent and spread your wings under your own steam. Then you owe nobody anything. This in itself will only make your parents and family respect and love you even more.

You are young and it's wonderful to see someone so young with a grand plan for their future. Don't be too impatient. Work out a plan, take one step at a time. Keep learning and researching.

You CAN get everything you want in life - just not all at the same time.

Don't know if I'm begetting any 'words of wisdom' here, lol...the older I get the more I realise what I don't know.

I wish you well on your journey.:thumb:

Warm regards,
Lily

[MargueriteBee]

Do not go into debt, debt is slavery.

[Phoenix]

Dear All,

I seek words of wisdom from the great people that you all are. I’ll be succinct.

I’m a passionate undergraduate engineering student approaching my senior year at my university. My life goal is to positively influence as many people in the world that I possibly can.

My issue: I want to diverge from the pretty paved road, and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world in and gives a taste of several very different countries. But, being a full time student, I would pay for a large chunk of the program with my private student loan - which my parents sign. My parents are so out of touch and live the average American sheep roles. It breaks my heart to see them and my family as a whole so blind and close-minded… I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I coerce my parents to co-sign the loan.

I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals.

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

What ideas do you have to positively influence people? Are your parents aligned with those ideas?

I want to use my education and compassion to help those who need help, for example i am working for a non profit now that is aligned with these ideas and my family doesnt even really care what im doing, all they seem to care about is their fear of me not being safe or something silly

[Phoenix]

Be honest with them IMO.

Let your heart show through, speak openly with them. Do some thinking about how to word it IMO. Carefully draw out what points you want to speak about, and what points you want to leave out(if any).

Oh and don't speak of conspiracy at all when telling them your plans IMHO lol. But you probably know that.

Make sure to mention your goals, to effect as many people as you can in a positive manner. If they are so lost they can't identify with that, I feel bad for them...

Also remember to look out for your future as well. If you are not setting up a career somehow by all of this, they might not sign the loan just based on that, as paying back a student loan without an income is pretty hard, or an 8$ an hour job. It may be better to finish your senior year.

Don't make the mistake I did and just think it will all work out for you(although it may), take action in making sure it happens. Securing a resume and an education takes the cake over exploring the world IMHO. You could do that later once you save up after you have finished your education and have a secure job. Not much is worse than having a no good resume and being seen as a loser by society, and what matters more, not having the money to buy good food or travel or enjoy certain things.

My advice is to finish the senior year, and graduate, find a job, and THEN seek out traveling the world and such. If it doesn't work out, you have something to fall back on. Once you have the diploma a lot more is possible. That might not be what you want to hear, but it's what I would do. I wish I had the opportunity to go to a university.

Omniverse, thanks for taking the time to respond. To be more specific, my lust for global travel will only make my resume more attractive to globally expanding companies who need people with global viewpoints, I would finish my senior year right after, and have a small global experience under my belt.

-Phoenix

[Phoenix]

Dear Phoenix,

Sometimes respect doesn't come until one has achieved what they said they were going to do. Sometimes we have to risk losing respect and love for a while to achieve finding ourselves through living out what we truly believe is our passion. There are lessons for you and for those who love you but getting through them to a win/win situation will depend on your total sovereignty and living out your passion with out the aid and sometimes support of others, both financially and emotionally.

Big risks ahead for you my friend, I believe in you and your courage. :)

Sandy, always happy to see your words - thank you. This helps immensely.

Your friend,

-Phoenix

¤=[Post Update]=¤


> I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I coerce my parents to co-sign the loan.
This sentence is your problem.

If your parents won't sign unless you coerce them (by misleading? dishonesty? physical threats?) then you have a lot to learn about human nature, integrity, your life and your purpose.
My suggestions are:
1) Finish education here, then go do what you like on your nickel.
2) Take a gap or two, work your way somewhere interesting, go explore, come back and finish off.
3) Say this out loud every day:
I know that truth cannot be fetched, any more than it can be avoided or enslaved, for truth only exists within.

Sorry, I misused the word coerce. I meant persuade. Thank you for pointing that out, I won't make that mistake ever again :)

-Phoenix

[learninglight]

Dear All,

I seek words of wisdom from the great people that you all are. I’ll be succinct.

I’m a passionate undergraduate engineering student approaching my senior year at my university. My life goal is to positively influence as many people in the world that I possibly can.

My issue: I want to diverge from the pretty paved road, and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world in and gives a taste of several very different countries. But, being a full time student, I would pay for a large chunk of the program with my private student loan - which my parents sign. My parents are so out of touch and live the average American sheep roles. It breaks my heart to see them and my family as a whole so blind and close-minded… I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I coerce my parents to co-sign the loan.

I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals.

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

Dearest Phoenix

My advice as a mother is to sit down with them and say exactly what you ask here. 'How do i show the people that are closest to me that i must and will spread my wings and do what i think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?' You are telling them you need to do this but they mean so much to you too and you dont want to lose them if you do this.
Be honest and open to discussion with them, expect questions about why you choose this path and once again your answer is in your statement here..'I want to diverge from the pretty paved road and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world and gives a taste of several very different countries.' and here 'I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals'
It will show them that if you are mature enough to open up about your future to them and discuss it, you are mature enough to decide what road you wish to take

If they don't agree to it you can do it after your education is done, and remember, they do what they do because they love you and want what they precieve as best for you

I hope it goes well for you Phonix

Much love

[Second Son]

Here's the skinny as I see it... Remember, you asked for it.

Watch as many videos as you can about the nature of student loans, and the value of a college diploma/education... and by THAT I mean alternative videos, Phoenix, we all know the conventional wisdom is "get a diploma so you can make a million dollars more in a lifetime than those that are un/der educated". There are many videos on these subjects available, and I have actually watched some right here at Avalon.

Remember that the majority of those multi-national companies you aspire to cater to with your unique type of education ARE the problem Phoenix, and one starry-eyed new hire isn't going to change that fact any time soon. The best way (in my HO) is to completely opt out of this system not prop it up with cooperation and tacit approval. Remember too that this "world view" you speak of is nothing more than "collectivism", and THAT my friend is the beautiful, guilded, politically correct nail which will be the last one in our collective coffins. This great big happy one world "New World Order" though being a recent catch phrase, is as old as the genocide of the Aztecs, Native Americans, Aborigines, the native Celts, and basically all of the tribes of Africa. This world view is what created the already crumbling European Union, which is nothing but a consolidation of the already almost omnipotent world bankers... a financial weapon of mass destruction. I firmly believe that nationalism and personal sovereignty, NOT collectivism is the thing which will stem this massive ongoing pilfering and genocide.

So.... here it is in a nutshell:

Debt IS slavery. Watch a handful of videos about it.

Schools in general are, and always have been a tool of the elite to manipulate and control, as well as to instill in the masses this notion of collectivism.

We ALL want to travel the world and experience other cultures at any age... so DO IT before you are saddled with a job or kids (like some of us). It is not as expensive as you think to travel light and stay in hostels etc. If this is your passion do it, BUT don't try to get it done under the guise of creating an impressive resume, especially if that resume will be created on your parents dime. Could it be that your parents. average Americans that they are, now that they have kids, have never been to Europe themselves? What are the odds of them taking their own dream vacation after they go into massive debt for YOUR education?

If you are really passionate about engineering put a team together in college. Get some electrical engineering students to help you study/build a zero-point generator. There are many retired metal workers who have some equipment at home who would help with the manufacture of parts. This would be a learning/teaching/multi-generational outreach type thing which would open the minds of many. YOU WILL NOT find this technollogy even mentioned in any of your college text books... this fact alone should raise your eyebrows as regarding the education system.

I have not spent one minute in a college classroom, but have been self-employed since I was 23 doing something I am passionate about, AND I am proud of the fact that I am a self made man who struck out on my own path, and I am not beholden to any person or institution for what I have accomplished and become.

I firmly believe that had I become entrenched in academia and conventional "wisdom" in my formative years, I might not be as aware of or open to the alternatives as I am. Just two examples, and then I will shut up...

I was at a cafe with my laptop some time ago. A retired electrical engineer and his wife were there, and after learning his vocation, I decided to show them a few short videos about zero point energy. Now his wife was agog, and more than slightly miffed that our "system" has been lying (and polluting) for so long, she watched the videos, he on the other hand, had been in the system for so long just could not bring himself to jetison his dearly held coventional beliefs regarding electricity. Even though he could actually SEE it with his own two eyes he would not believe it was possible.

A young lady at that same cafe, who would be described by some as a "conspiracy theorist", and who was very aware of many political facts, told me she was going to go to Oregon to learn engineering specifically to work on in the burgeoning field of wind power. My knee-jerk response was something like "We don't need to look at those ugly windmills dotting the horizons, we are SO FAR beyond that type of archaic technology." I could see she was visibly shaken, and (almost) regret saying it. To me this is just another example of peoples' tendency to cling to the conventional world view when education is concerned. She new about 911, etc, because let's face it when it comes to politics anything goes, but come on... the education system? It's just imutable facts and figures in books right? WRONG.

[Charlie Pecos]

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. Go with your heart, the rest will fall in place.

Please do not coerce or deceive anyone to achieve your goals. Honesty is the best policy. Treat others the way you want to be treated- how would you feel about a loved one coercing you? When you look back on your life, you want to be proud of what you have done, not filled with regrets because you should or shouldn't have done something. Take risks. Sometimes those risks pay off. Sometimes they don't, but even when they don't, they still pay off in valuable learning experience.

And one more thing- STAY AWAY FROM DEBT. Live simply, buy only what you absolutely need. Don't get caught up in "bigger, better, more". Work to live only, do not get caught up in the corporate game. Much regret you will find there.

These are some of the things that I have learned, I hope they help you.

Please check and this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22599-Regrets-of-the-dying

It has much bearing on this discussion
Good luck and much love to you, Phoenix.

[Cjay]

Hi Phoenix, I feel you. My dad is 84. Only in the last 18 months has he begun to open his mind. It has been frustrating to say the least. My dad told me many times, "you can only eat an elephant one bite at a time, or climb the highest mountain one step at a time."

I suggest that you identify your next step or next few steps, so you are very clear about where you want to go. Then show your parents, as gently yet enthusiastically as you can, specifically which steps you want to take and why. The "why" part is critical - you must have a clear and definite purpose.

If you venturing overseas to further your education and life's journey is intimidating for your parents, may I suggest that you come to Australia because there is nowhere else on earth that is more like the United States, in terms of our overall culture and our universities are world class. This might not be too far out of your parents' comfort zone.

It might seem to you to be so far from your original plans, if you have your heart set on experiencing a wide range of different cultures. But it is just a first step and Australia has a mix of people and cultures from literally every country on Earth. Australia could be the perfect starting point for a much bigger journey.

Here are two websites that may be helpful to get you started on your search:

http://www.universitiesaustralia.edu.au/

http://studyinaustralia.gov.au/
The official Australian Government site for advice on study in Australia. Impartial information about courses, institutions, study and living costs, ...

Wherever you go, I wish you well on your journey.

[bilko]

In the words of Ion " it doesn't matter if you win the race or hit the ditch, so long as you are driving".
This reference refers to life of course.
We win and lose friends and relationships along the way but by living a life true to yourself, your wishes, your dreams; you will exude more life and passion than any cause.
People will flock to you and bask in you and be all the better for it.

A cause may be noble but action is the path that will lead you to joy.
Give those you love the chance to live their own path by following yours and it will all work out as it should.

[Heartsong]

Until you can respect your parent's "culture" I'm not sure you have the maturity to travel the world. Nor should you be using them to co-sign a loan.

[Flash]

Your parents must be very rich for you to think that way. Or you are showing a selfish side of yourself.

Why would anyone pay for anyone the trip of their life, if the former cannot even afford it for himself?

I am fairly well educated, paid for my studies myself and never asked my very hard working parents for a cent. They provided when I was in extremely bad shape, without having me to coerce or persuade, they provided from their heart when they could..

And guess what: once the education finished, I could find jobs abroad that made me travel and widen my horizons. All paid by myself or the employers. What about that?


Omniverse, thanks for taking the time to respond. To be more specific, my lust for global travel will only make my resume more attractive to globally expanding companies who need people with global viewpoints, I would finish my senior year right after, and have a small global experience under my belt

I could mention to you a few companies that need engineers to work abroad once out of university. There is quite a few on the market.

You are surely also aware that a lot of engineering work has been transfered to poor countries where they pay engineers peanuts when comparing with US. Which means that the market is a bit tighter, so don't incur new debts just to put something that looks, to you, glamorous on your resume. It may not really pay back as much as you think it will.

[Anchor]

Follow your heart.

Consider what you were doing when you were asking the question in the opening post, try to figure out if you are motivated to follow the standards of what you might consider to be the judgements of others; but in contemplating this, remember that you are the only one that can judge yourself with complete validity.

You can get stuck in analysis paralysis - ask all the people you want - at the end of it all - you'll be making the decision anyway :)

John..

[Mulder]

Hi, I'm really excited for you, its such an important time in your life. When I was your age, people told me to "get an education" so I did.

But I didn't know that "Everything is upside down! The doctors are destroying health, the lawyers are destroying justice, professors are destroying knowledge, the media are destroying information and the truth, while religion is destroying spirituality" -David Icke.

Now I have to tell you that your education could turn into a nightmare - just watch this video - "the college conspiracy": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

I know you won't want to hear this, but DON'T get this loan, find some other way to reach people. In years to come you will see things differently than now.

[Cigan Mojia]

Heartsong, Succinctly put & well expressed. If I may add my own two cents on a similar note.

There appears to be some humility misplaced. And I would so love to see wiser, more detached warriors explain how much of this "Wanderlust" is ego...
Tricky thing that Ego is.

Phoenix. Please do not take this as an insult.
I offer only an invitation to some great minds to join this conversation and my own... Perception... just a few years past that feeling of "graduate invincibility." Your slips of fingertips in freudian speak Volumes. Private loans, persuasion, really no different than coercion, same vein. Different pulse. Lust for travel, I am paraphrasing here... misery within the walls of your automaton world... sometimes you just want to shake'em, those loved ones who just don't get it.

They have their way, you have yours.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd roll my sleeves up and get to work. Every one won't always agree with what you feel you need to do, they may not get it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. A bit of respect for others beliefs may be beneficial to your cause.

[Phoenix]

Here's the skinny as I see it... Remember, you asked for it.

Watch as many videos as you can about the nature of student loans, and the value of a college diploma/education... and by THAT I mean alternative videos, Phoenix, we all know the conventional wisdom is "get a diploma so you can make a million dollars more in a lifetime than those that are un/der educated". There are many videos on these subjects available, and I have actually watched some right here at Avalon.

Remember that the majority of those multi-national companies you aspire to cater to with your unique type of education ARE the problem Phoenix, and one starry-eyed new hire isn't going to change that fact any time soon. The best way (in my HO) is to completely opt out of this system not prop it up with cooperation and tacit approval. Remember too that this "world view" you speak of is nothing more than "collectivism", and THAT my friend is the beautiful, guilded, politically correct nail which will be the last one in our collective coffins. This great big happy one world "New World Order" though being a recent catch phrase, is as old as the genocide of the Aztecs, Native Americans, Aborigines, the native Celts, and basically all of the tribes of Africa. This world view is what created the already crumbling European Union, which is nothing but a consolidation of the already almost omnipotent world bankers... a financial weapon of mass destruction. I firmly believe that nationalism and personal sovereignty, NOT collectivism is the thing which will stem this massive ongoing pilfering and genocide.

So.... here it is in a nutshell:

Debt IS slavery. Watch a handful of videos about it.

Schools in general are, and always have been a tool of the elite to manipulate and control, as well as to instill in the masses this notion of collectivism.

We ALL want to travel the world and experience other cultures at any age... so DO IT before you are saddled with a job or kids (like some of us). It is not as expensive as you think to travel light and stay in hostels etc. If this is your passion do it, BUT don't try to get it done under the guise of creating an impressive resume, especially if that resume will be created on your parents dime. Could it be that your parents. average Americans that they are, now that they have kids, have never been to Europe themselves? What are the odds of them taking their own dream vacation after they go into massive debt for YOUR education?

If you are really passionate about engineering put a team together in college. Get some electrical engineering students to help you study/build a zero-point generator. There are many retired metal workers who have some equipment at home who would help with the manufacture of parts. This would be a learning/teaching/multi-generational outreach type thing which would open the minds of many. YOU WILL NOT find this technollogy even mentioned in any of your college text books... this fact alone should raise your eyebrows as regarding the education system.

I have not spent one minute in a college classroom, but have been self-employed since I was 23 doing something I am passionate about, AND I am proud of the fact that I am a self made man who struck out on my own path, and I am not beholden to any person or institution for what I have accomplished and become.

I firmly believe that had I become entrenched in academia and conventional "wisdom" in my formative years, I might not be as aware of or open to the alternatives as I am. Just two examples, and then I will shut up...

I was at a cafe with my laptop some time ago. A retired electrical engineer and his wife were there, and after learning his vocation, I decided to show them a few short videos about zero point energy. Now his wife was agog, and more than slightly miffed that our "system" has been lying (and polluting) for so long, she watched the videos, he on the other hand, had been in the system for so long just could not bring himself to jetison his dearly held coventional beliefs regarding electricity. Even though he could actually SEE it with his own two eyes he would not believe it was possible.

A young lady at that same cafe, who would be described by some as a "conspiracy theorist", and who was very aware of many political facts, told me she was going to go to Oregon to learn engineering specifically to work on in the burgeoning field of wind power. My knee-jerk response was something like "We don't need to look at those ugly windmills dotting the horizons, we are SO FAR beyond that type of archaic technology." I could see she was visibly shaken, and (almost) regret saying it. To me this is just another example of peoples' tendency to cling to the conventional world view when education is concerned. She new about 911, etc, because let's face it when it comes to politics anything goes, but come on... the education system? It's just imutable facts and figures in books right? WRONG.

Second Son, there are so many things I want to say in response to your comment... but I don't know where to begin. I want to discuss each of your points because you my friend, are saying basically what my heart says, yet my mind tells me to follow social structure.... let's talk soon.

-Phoenix

[Phoenix]

Until you can respect your parent's "culture" I'm not sure you have the maturity to travel the world. Nor should you be using them to co-sign a loan.

I'm sorry, what? Respect is something to be earned, its not a right, IMO.

-Phoenix

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Heartsong, Succinctly put & well expressed. If I may add my own two cents on a similar note.

There appears to be some humility misplaced. And I would so love to see wiser, more detached warriors explain how much of this "Wanderlust" is ego...
Tricky thing that Ego is.

Phoenix. Please do not take this as an insult.
I offer only an invitation to some great minds to join this conversation and my own... Perception... just a few years past that feeling of "graduate invincibility." Your slips of fingertips in freudian speak Volumes. Private loans, persuasion, really no different than coercion, same vein. Different pulse. Lust for travel, I am paraphrasing here... misery within the walls of your automaton world... sometimes you just want to shake'em, those loved ones who just don't get it.

They have their way, you have yours.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd roll my sleeves up and get to work. Every one won't always agree with what you feel you need to do, they may not get it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. A bit of respect for others beliefs may be beneficial to your cause.

Thanks for your comment. I do need to have more respect for others beliefs.

You said you'd roll up your sleeves and get to work - with what? I don't follow.

[Davidallany]

Phoenix, forget about hope and fear they are prisoners. Once you let go all things will manifest to your heart's contentment. Free your heart.

[Meesh]

I don't know . . . the real personal growth issue may be how you deal with your parents' refusal to cosign. Can you release the attachment that you have to taking this trip if it isn't in the cards right now? With love? Difficult, I know, I don't envy you.

[Flash]

Until you can respect your parent's "culture" I'm not sure you have the maturity to travel the world. Nor should you be using them to co-sign a loan.

I'm sorry, what? Respect is something to be earned, its not a right, IMO.

-Phoenix

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Heartsong, Succinctly put & well expressed. If I may add my own two cents on a similar note.

There appears to be some humility misplaced. And I would so love to see wiser, more detached warriors explain how much of this "Wanderlust" is ego...
Tricky thing that Ego is.

Phoenix. Please do not take this as an insult.
I offer only an invitation to some great minds to join this conversation and my own... Perception... just a few years past that feeling of "graduate invincibility." Your slips of fingertips in freudian speak Volumes. Private loans, persuasion, really no different than coercion, same vein. Different pulse. Lust for travel, I am paraphrasing here... misery within the walls of your automaton world... sometimes you just want to shake'em, those loved ones who just don't get it.

They have their way, you have yours.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd roll my sleeves up and get to work. Every one won't always agree with what you feel you need to do, they may not get it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. A bit of respect for others beliefs may be beneficial to your cause.

Thanks for your comment. I do need to have more respect for others beliefs.

You said you'd roll up your sleeves and get to work - with what? I don't follow.

Parents who earned hard money so that their cherished child goes to school, while they could have had some of their own cherished desired fulfilled instead, parents who fed their kid while he grew up, gave him a roof, did not do to much dope, well, they did earn the respect.

Would you be able to do as much right now if your girlfriend got pregnant or would you go in Europe or elsewhere instead, leaving her with the responsiblitilies. They took their responsibilities, they deserve respect for it.

And I am shutting up, because ..... well, you don't seem to deserve the same respect up to now as they do, from your comment and Freudian slips.

And I earned my own education, earned my own travelling, did not expect my own hard working parents to pay for it.

[Darla Ken Pearce]

If you are an engineering student, so many changes will be happening before the end of 2011, it will make your head swim and negate all that you know right now. It's obsolete already and going bye-bye. By the end of this year, there will be zero-point gravity, free energy, a radical refitting of the entire health industry. What you desire is already dead and gone, you just don't realize it. A new day has dawned and all the old ways of engineering require new methods that cause less harm to Mother Earth and all beings.

Free Travel will be available to everyone who can adjust to the new paradigm and energies coming from solar winds and rising consciousness. It's the worst time to ask those we love to sign into debts for what has no value and will be vanishing quicker than you can say, Jiminey Cricket. Getting a loan now is not productive or wise but if you don't see these changes as being real, proceed using the dictates of your own heart. I wouldn't be caught up in loans, all this goes away in the very near future. Much love in your decisions! xoxoxoxox

[Flash]

If you are an engineering student, so many changes will be happening before the end of 2011, it will make your head swim and negate all that you know right now. It's obsolete already and going bye-bye. By the end of this year, there will be zero-point gravity, free energy, a radical refitting of the entire health industry. What you desire is already dead and gone, you just don't realize it. A new day has dawned and all the old ways of engineering require new methods that cause less harm to Mother Earth and all beings.

Free Travel will be available to everyone who can adjust to the new paradigm and energies coming from solar winds and rising consciousness. It's the worst time to ask those we love to sign into debts for what has no value and will be vanishing quicker than you can say, Jiminey Cricket. Getting a loan now is not productive or wise but if you don't see these changes as being real, proceed using the dictates of your own heart. I wouldn't be caught up in loans, all this goes away in the very near future. Much love in your decisions! xoxoxoxox


Yes Darla, as long as you show respect and love minimally to those that did love you.

[Marsila]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!

as for traveling abroad,


Men go abroad to wonder at the heights of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of the rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motions of the stars, and they pass by themselves without wondering.
Saint Augustine

[kathymarie]

I totally agree with Omniverse's post above.....I've found many times I desire something with the best intention and heart but the timing is all wrong. I believe doors open and things are not difficult when the timing is right. Your desires, aspirations and goals are commendable....but maybe this just isn't the best time for you, your family and your world.

[Phoenix]

Until you can respect your parent's "culture" I'm not sure you have the maturity to travel the world. Nor should you be using them to co-sign a loan.

I'm sorry, what? Respect is something to be earned, its not a right, IMO.

-Phoenix

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Heartsong, Succinctly put & well expressed. If I may add my own two cents on a similar note.

There appears to be some humility misplaced. And I would so love to see wiser, more detached warriors explain how much of this "Wanderlust" is ego...
Tricky thing that Ego is.

Phoenix. Please do not take this as an insult.
I offer only an invitation to some great minds to join this conversation and my own... Perception... just a few years past that feeling of "graduate invincibility." Your slips of fingertips in freudian speak Volumes. Private loans, persuasion, really no different than coercion, same vein. Different pulse. Lust for travel, I am paraphrasing here... misery within the walls of your automaton world... sometimes you just want to shake'em, those loved ones who just don't get it.

They have their way, you have yours.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd roll my sleeves up and get to work. Every one won't always agree with what you feel you need to do, they may not get it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. A bit of respect for others beliefs may be beneficial to your cause.

Thanks for your comment. I do need to have more respect for others beliefs.

You said you'd roll up your sleeves and get to work - with what? I don't follow.

Parents who earned hard money so that their cherished child goes to school, while they could have had some of their own cherished desired fulfilled instead, parents who fed their kid while he grew up, gave him a roof, did not do to much dope, well, they did earn the respect.

Would you be able to do as much right now if your girlfriend got pregnant or would you go in Europe or elsewhere instead, leaving her with the responsiblitilies. They took their responsibilities, they deserve respect for it.

And I am shutting up, because ..... well, you don't seem to deserve the same respect up to now as they do, from your comment and Freudian slips.

And I earned my own education, earned my own travelling, did not expect my own hard working parents to pay for it.

I'm having a hard time over here understanding why you're being so apprehensive towards me. Never once did I say I am not grateful for my parents and everything they've given me. Not once did I say they'd given me a cent to use for my education either.

I do respect them - but the fact is they don't have an open mind to things that I say that are alternative in nature and don't follow the "normal" social structure.

When have I ever questioned your ego?? Why do you have to demoralize me for trying to figure out a problem that I'm having difficulty with?

You don't have to respect me, nor do I mind - but thank you for your honesty.


If you are an engineering student, so many changes will be happening before the end of 2011, it will make your head swim and negate all that you know right now. It's obsolete already and going bye-bye. By the end of this year, there will be zero-point gravity, free energy, a radical refitting of the entire health industry. What you desire is already dead and gone, you just don't realize it. A new day has dawned and all the old ways of engineering require new methods that cause less harm to Mother Earth and all beings.

Free Travel will be available to everyone who can adjust to the new paradigm and energies coming from solar winds and rising consciousness. It's the worst time to ask those we love to sign into debts for what has no value and will be vanishing quicker than you can say, Jiminey Cricket. Getting a loan now is not productive or wise but if you don't see these changes as being real, proceed using the dictates of your own heart. I wouldn't be caught up in loans, all this goes away in the very near future. Much love in your decisions! xoxoxoxox


Hello, I'm trying to go into the field of sustainability to further enhance human life by integrating people with nature and renewable energy and all that, so its not so black and white 'engineering.'

I'm interested in what you said about the changes before 2011 is over - because you said it like it was fact. May I see your source? I'm very excited to hear those things!! A social paradigm change for the better would be very exciting..


Okay Phoenix as someone who studied and worked in a financial investments company and quit without accepting a few months salary, and whose life course was changed because of a partners trouble with student loans i have one thing to tell you about student loans, or any other...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO IT!!!!!!

doesn't matter how generous this loan seems to be, in the fine print you will see, that you miss one payment or are a day, heck an hour late, and they will keep on screwing your life by increasing the interest until you end up feeling like your salary goes to rent and the loan and it is still not complete. i know they word it so well like they are so kind and generous and want to help you, but they are not, they are the wolf in sheeps clothing pretending to be your fairy godmother!!!you should hear what i used to hear, and the poor people who come to borrow the money, they wouldn't have done it if they have another choice. it's another case of the rich feeding of the poor (or less well off) so again DON'T DO IT.

let me tell you a bit, I found the person i think i am meant to be with because more than once call them what you want to call them, angel guardians, light workers invisible but benevolent hands led us to each other, and when we finally decided to settle....money and our inability to keep it in our hands thanks to loans got in the way. and we are both paid well for our age (or at least it seemed that way). don't let that happen to you, you are young and still have you whole life ahead to you to travel and etc,

and though i pray for what Darla said to happen, until then engineers travel more than anyone else i know (except air stewards) and its coz they are in demand, and the company pays for everything (hotel stay, plane tickets, weekly allowance) in return for sending you abroad for projects ALL AROUND THE WORLD. You already sound bright, so finish your studies with the best that is available to you now, and you will see the world in time.

i will end this by something inspirational i read a while ago, when a friend much older than yourself was telling me how due to the unfairness in this world, have never really traveled despite really wanting to...your age is a great want to start the kind of journey described below.

that and your parents love you, if anything happens to you, that's it for them, they die in the inside to, so don't feel angry at them.


Men go abroad to wonder at the heights of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of the rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motions of the stars, and they pass by themselves without wondering.
Saint Augustine

Wow.. thank you. I heed your warning seriously.. its depressing though.

[Decibellistics]

Don't ever limit yourself.

P.S. I can totally relate. But think of this. You are an intellect, an engineer....Your parents I'm sure deal with the realm of logic and rationale.....use your engineering skills to your advantage in this perspective. But at the same time, transcend the norm, follow your inner core and forget your doubts. You might step in ****, but your path is your path. And you should follow the intuition and power you hold within. **** em.

[Cigan Mojia]

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

EDIT: To clarify, I pay for every cent of my education, loans and all.

Sometimes those closest to you aren't going to get it Phoenix, and sometimes it's an opportunity to look at those relationships and consider if they are genuine or toxic. As far as the love and respect goes, those who truly feel this way towards you will not let your tenacity to do that which is right for yourself, change their feelings.

If however you have a group around you that doesn't want to see you succeed in fulfilling you goals, reaching the achievements and having the experience you believe will help you to be who it is and what it is you are meant to be... nothing you do will ever be enough, no matter how close you stay to that beaten path, there will always be a critique waiting.

As far as rolling up one's sleeves and getting to work, maybe look into other opportunities where you can use work study to pay your own way.
Or consider joining an organization of volunteers that allows you in to many of the same things for the betterment of mankind, without the price tag. Peace Corps keeps nagging at me as an example, or red cross... if you are in school at a campus, discuss your options THOROUGHLY with both Student Advisors and Financial Aid.

Finally if you want to bring this proposition to your parents, make sure you have all the information, done the research, anticipate their concerns and have a solid pay back method in place to allay any financial fears of you just going to party abroad.

If you make your case with passion, gratitude and respect but they still say no way to a co-sign you will likely have other avenues to consider by doing this research before hand.

[Phoenix]

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

EDIT: To clarify, I pay for every cent of my education, loans and all.

Sometimes those closest to you aren't going to get it Phoenix, and sometimes it's an opportunity to look at those relationships and consider if they are genuine or toxic. As far as the love and respect goes, those who truly feel this way towards you will not let your tenacity to do that which is right for yourself, change their feelings.

If however you have a group around you that doesn't want to see you succeed in fulfilling you goals, reaching the achievements and having the experience you believe will help you to be who it is and what it is you are meant to be... nothing you do will ever be enough, no matter how close you stay to that beaten path, there will always be a critique waiting.

As far as rolling up one's sleeves and getting to work, maybe look into other opportunities where you can use work study to pay your own way.
Or consider joining an organization of volunteers that allows you in to many of the same things for the betterment of mankind, without the price tag. Peace Corps keeps nagging at me as an example, or red cross... if you are in school at a campus, discuss your options THOROUGHLY with both Student Advisors and Financial Aid.

Finally if you want to bring this proposition to your parents, make sure you have all the information, done the research, anticipate their concerns and have a solid pay back method in place to allay any financial fears of you just going to party abroad.

If you make your case with passion, gratitude and respect but they still say no way to a co-sign you will likely have other avenues to consider by doing this research before hand.

Every single word you just said has already happened, in my mind, then it played out when my dad said it was a stupid idea, and then when I figured out I can pay for everything without taking out 1 cent.. so I thank you immensely for reassuring me with my vision. :grouphug:

-phoenix

[THIRDEYE]

i too have of the same family issues,the way i see these in my family is free will...i talk to my dad quite frequently and he just foesnt want too hear it the way of spiritual growth...the old saying goes you cant teach an old dog new tricks...i love my family deeply... they will come around if they choose,i am powerless over thier lives...i pray and send them love and light....love light and abundance...thirdeye....

[nearing]

You have had very good advice on how to handle your parents and loved ones. I'd like to add a little something about traveling the world and staying our of debt:

WWOOFing: World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms (http://www.wwoof.org/)

Go for it!!!!

[ThresholdRising]

Hi Pheonix, I had the sort of the same problem a few years ago when I was in second year of civil engineering. I just was not as interested in the course and found out of another course that just fitted perfectly with the way I was thinking at that time. So I stopped civil engineering and started industrial design the following september,
My parents were raging at me for ages and I had to get a job to pay for my way through the first 2 years of the course. But it was definitely worth it. Even though my parents couldn't see how much it meant for to me at the time, they eventually accepted the fact and it was ok.
Even though it became a tough enough time, Id do the same thing again if I had the oppurtunity to choose all over again.

[Artemesia]

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix



Wonderful question Phoenix. I came from a similar story, and chose to live my song, no matter what. My advice/answer to your question, is: JUST DO IT. They will only understand through observing what it means to live what you are talking about when they see it in action. They may or may not support or understand or align or acknowledge it, no matter the beauty or positive results it creates in the world. That was my story. In December of 2010 I did what had to be done for the next level of progress, I cut off all relations with my parents, and family in general. I chose to soar, spread my wings fully, and untrammel myself from the chains that kept the attachments of any kind (financial, ideological, emotional) to the perch where I first came to know of myself in this lifetime in this world. It was not easy, and many many attempts to do so had been made before, though I would usually come home to roost once again. This time it felt different. It was for real.

And I joined Project Avalon almost exactly 1 month, 28 days, one moon cycle later.

I don't look for results, but I can feel them. You will too. Choose to live your song, to soar. Anything anyone else feels or thinks or says or does in the face of that is completely and totally irrelvant. It is yours to live. Live it.

[Lettherebelight]

Hmmm...this is a tough one, Phoenix. A crossroads in life to be sure.

Go with the flow...the status quo?

Or 'Open a new Window'?

Well, sounds like you've already made your choice to...Go for it! I say, make your mark in life when you're young! For what it's worth, I left my degree studies to travel the world on a loan. I never lived in the country of my birth again and it's been an amazing journey. Mystical things happen when you follow your heart.

How to keep your family's love and respect? Easy...plenty of postcards and souvenirs from afar!

[Tigressa]

Why don't you try throwing this up to the Universe and doing a manifestation process? If it is the right thing, you will have the experience and money, time etc. will all flow. If it doesn't happen it will have been an unnecessary or unhelpful step for you. Beware of betraying your future self by creating a loan, loans are not part of 'flow', either there is money or there isn't.

[Phoenix]

I've gone over these posts so many times and I'm still torn. I'm at the point where I'd be paying my way without any loans, and its do-able, I just know it will enrage my family and I risk losing them for this selfish journey.. I must make a decision by this afternoon.... any last words??????????????

[nearing]

I've gone over these posts so many times and I'm still torn. I'm at the point where I'd be paying my way without any loans, and its do-able, I just know it will enrage my family and I risk losing them for this selfish journey.. I must make a decision by this afternoon.... any last words??????????????

Phoenix, this is your life. Your family members all have theirs, that they can do whatever they choose with. If they love you, they will get over their selfishness and let you live YOUR life so you won't become embittered and resentful later.

[QueenKat]

Don't do it. Families remember these things forever! Go when you've graduated and are on your own.

[Phoenix]

Thanks, everyone. I've chosen to go after I graduate. This whole thought process has taught me a lot, and it made me realize that I was being impatient and selfish - I can go after I graduate, fulfilling the promises I made to the fam, and still have enough time to get out to the world on my own dime only. That = having my cake and eating it too!

I won't ever stop following my passion or making my dreams reality, as long as I don't tread on the dreams and passions of others.

-Phoenix

[ktlight]

I've gone over these posts so many times and I'm still torn. I'm at the point where I'd be paying my way without any loans, and its do-able, I just know it will enrage my family and I risk losing them for this selfish journey.. I must make a decision by this afternoon.... any last words??????????????

Parents wish to retain control. It's part of the indoctrination process to do as you are told!! They will always love you, no matter what. So if you are driven to do what you want to do, DO IT. You can never live in their skin. Hope you understand.

[nearing]

Parents that are that controlling usually expect the child who graduates from college to get out there and find a job asap. It never ends until YOU change the pattern.

It's not as if college won't be there waiting for you to finish later, but you can never get back your youth.

Just saying.

(I say this as a parent of a early 20's child and the child of controlling parents)

[Gone002]

When people are told the truth they will not listen, through your actions and good will you can help change them. You have been given a moment of clarity, do what you have to do. in time they will see, Life is for living.

[Anchor]

-- update - I see you made the call --


For what it is worth, I didnt finish my degree and it P.O'd my Dad at the time.

We both learned.

He still loves me

(I think - LOL)

[Sierra]

Phoenix,

Good job! Finish the degree and then spread your free and clear wings! Kudos, kudos, and MORE kudos on the no debt decision.

<sticking Phoenix's cake in the freezer for graduation ...>

Sierra :wave:

[Phoenix]

Thanks everyone! :)

[Phil]

Can I just say this to you Phoenix, Sometimes there are question we ask of others that, others simply cant answer for you, these questions, are a part of you, that you will find, that will always be a part of you, and this I feel is one of those questions. you have to remember you are an individual, and your road is long, you have many lessons to learn, and many roads to travel.

Your road is JUST STARTING, YOU HAVE TO find the way ahead.
I hope this helps you.

[Flash]

Thanks everyone! :)

Congratulation Phoenix, for the decision you took or rather because you took one and for the process you decided to go through truthfully within yourself as well as with other. This is real signs of maturity and also it gives a better chance to succeed.

I had seen your situation in two very different points of view:

The child who really wishes, sometimes selfishly, to accomplish his desire thinking that this is his path, whatever his family thinks or sees, which is a way to develop ones own ways. You may perceive your family as selfish or closed minded, which may or may not be true, however, the important thing is that you decide for yourself and are actingt by yourself for further growth.

What was bothering me was that with your situation and point of view is that, as an adult, you were counting on your parents to do it for you, to get into your desires. I am happy that now you count on yourself.

I had also seen it from a parent point of view: they surely love you otherwise you would barely be finishing high school, you already has roof, food, and love in your life. YOur parents may not be that wealthy and may want to profit a bit in life, thinking it is their turn after having given quite a lot to their children, which as such would be alright and justified.

But more than that: at some point, parents have to push the kid out of the nest to make sure he flies on his own, as a responsible and giving adult. It may also be what they have been doing, out of total love for you. At one point, the children have to stop relying on their parents and this your parents managed to do, I congratulate them as well to have had this courage and at the risk of you turning against them, this is true love, sometimes as well called tough love.

I personnally do not see it as them wanting to keep control over you but rather the contrary, as see it as them wanting you to fly by your own when it is about your own desires.. One thing for sure, I would have reacted and done the same with my daughter, even if she would have been really angry, because I have seen too many kids staying untill their thirties, not able to take independant decision. I would not want my beloved one to get into those same traps.

Congratulation for your decision, may life be good to you and love surrounding you in your endeavors.

[Terra]

Hey Phoenix,
Reckon you have made the right decision, good for you bud. You will find when you leave home that things can change at the drop of the hat, one moment your staring down into the abyss without a hope, next thing you are on top of the world, just keep the faith. Regarding your folks, keep on your own path and they will start to wake up bit by bit, it will take time just persevere.
As Sierra has said already, kudos to you my friend.
Best wishes,
Terra.

[Armen]

Phoenix,

You do it with the power of reason. You build a solid case that is irrefutable. I have walked through that door myself with my family. If you want to know more about how to do that, I would love to help you build that case. It is my forte...

Send me a PM if you're interested...I'm serious!

[ceetee9]

I've gone over these posts so many times and I'm still torn. I'm at the point where I'd be paying my way without any loans, and its do-able, I just know it will enrage my family and I risk losing them for this selfish journey.. I must make a decision by this afternoon.... any last words??????????????It is not a selfish journey if you know in your heart it is what you need to do. In fact, it is selfish on your family's part if they want you to live their dream and not your own, IMO.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Do what feels right to you. You are not living your family's expectations for your life - you are living yours. It is your life - you have to live with it.

I've found that the best way to get what you want is not to ask, but to tell. If you ask your boss if you can leave early, then he has a choice. If you tell him you are leaving he has none.

Families will strangle you if you give em enough rope to do it with - and all with good intentions, of course.

Keep your sovereign authority intact. Ask for suggestions, out of respect, but make your own decision.

Travel around the world? While you're young and free? Go for it! That's what I say. It took me over two years to convince my daughter to go travel. The career will wait. And in your case the travelling will be part of your resume. A no brainer, for one on the outside looking in that is.

Keep your dreams alive!

Peace

[Deedee]

Dear All,

I seek words of wisdom from the great people that you all are. I’ll be succinct.

I’m a passionate undergraduate engineering student approaching my senior year at my university. My life goal is to positively influence as many people in the world that I possibly can.

My issue: I want to diverge from the pretty paved road, and take the dive into uncharted waters. I want to study abroad on a program that goes around the world in and gives a taste of several very different countries. But, being a full time student, I would pay for a large chunk of the program with my private student loan - which my parents sign. My parents are so out of touch and live the average American sheep roles. It breaks my heart to see them and my family as a whole so blind and close-minded… I can’t get this part of the puzzle unless I make them see that the co-sign is worth it..

I know this part of my life will be so rewarding and amazing that it will only bring me closer to my goals.

My question: How do I show the people that are closest to me that I must and I will spread my wings and do what I think is best for me, not what anyone else thinks is best for me? Is it possible to do this without totally losing their respect and love?

-Phoenix

EDIT: To clarify, I pay for every cent of my education, loans and all.

This is such a difficult question to answer because there are so many factors involved here such as... Which countries will you visit? Are these considered "safe" per your parents belief systems? Do you have an actual agenda or game plan laid out to show your parents the path you choose to take in the last year of your studies. Doing your homework first usually will assist in showing your parents you are mature with a game plan to study the last year abroad... What are the consequences of your parents signing with you? Does this make them responsible for the debt should you somehow not be able to follow through? I know the grass sounds greener on the other side but when you attach yourself to the potential livelihood of your parents "financially"... then they look at the potential consequences involved for them.. It's not all cut and dry here.. What if you fall in Love and get a girl pregnant and decide to marry her and stay there and your studies wane.. I know I know these are all "what if's".. but your parents could potentially have these same thoughts going through their mind. The family dynamics between you and your parents are not something we are privvy to here at Avalon. The only advice I can give is if you have such a desire to venture out there and if it is meant to be then it will somehow fall into place for you. Good luck.