Good & Bad, does it really exist ?

[crownme]

Waves o/

Good & Bad

oh i hear the objections of this thought

but does it relly exist ?

how do you know its bad ? how do you know its good ?

if you do not experience a murder, how can you know its bad? if it were never to have happened, how would you know ? you see the animals do it all the time through nature. so from a viewpoint were you have never been told what is bad and good, how would you know ?

if you werent pumped full from your TV and internett with this word love and finding your spouse, would you ever pursue it ? would you still dream of it ?

if money was never created, and you never herd of it, would you instinctly know that this has meening and can make you greedy ?

is there such a thing as good & bad ?

if you never experienced what is being told to you is bad, how do you relly know its bad ? without the experience of this "bad" thing, how would you know ? and beside when you experience the bad thing, not until then you really understand the "good" of it.

ive been bad to humans in my life, im far from perfect, and i never want to be perfect. that is the time when it is all over and i have no need to go on, im at the end if i ever become perfect, and then what do i have left to exist for ? nothing.

but my point is when ive been bad and "suffered" from it, ive said stuff i didnt meen, or i smashed something in anger. only then ive come to understand why i am that way, why i did it, it let me see the whole situation and not just this "good,love" thing. i got the whole spectre and then i could grow from it. and only after all i that i could show up and apologize for my actions and see that its ok.

was it bad ? was it good ? did god smithe me ? no, it was my experience of life, that i chose to experience to understand. to let life go and not judge it. its was neither good or bad.

its all an experience, either its war or love, povererty or greed. if you remove what you deed as "bad, would it be bad anymore then ? you have nothing to suport and hold love up. and it would cease to exist. would it not ?

as i say, how would you know without ever knowing about it ?

you can sit and say here and know, but we got all this, we have our history, we have evidence.... now.....

but would would the 50'th generation of this species know ? what if you travel 1 000 humans to another planet without any books or knowledge. you think their grandgrandchildren would know what war and poverty is ? a xbox ? beutiful sonatas that make your emotions flow ?

some of you humans deem youself as only good humans, righteous ones, clean ones, enlightened and ever loving light.
but did you know that light does create the shadows when you walk life ?

how can you claim this without claiming then also that you are the worst bastard to on this planet ? you have to even out the scale dont you ? and if you stand there judging bad and pointing your finger at it, you are indeed at the same level as the thing you are pointing at.
when you judge others you are no better, becouse that is a sign of never have experiencd what you are judging. couse you do not know. becouse the lack of experiencing it.

were ever you look on this planet were "civilization and society" have reached you see the billboards splitting apart and separating love and hate, poverty and rich, war and hippie.
dont you all see why you dont understand the world when you are willingly being programmed to choose sides of something thats man made and doesnt really exist in the universe..

it all is needed to come into creation, both this "good & bad ", the other would fade into the night without the other. so if you want to feel good, you better be ready on this planet to get hurt.

is there such a thing as good & bad ?

namaste

[RedeZra]

is there such a thing as good & bad ?


if human consciousness is the highest authority then that question can be resolved by a poll ; )

but I'm afraid our ordinary consciousness is not the highest authority and so whatever we vote

we will not have the last say about it

[ulli]

If you have planned to go on a diet then "bad" is eating a big piece of cake.
If you find your child gone and a kidnapper is asking you to hand over your hardearned money, you would not be posting this thread.

If you want to contemplate being God and you divided your energy into two opposing forces which are when put together, the originators of fresh life, or else the short circuit of destruction, then the answer is "it's all good"

Context and consequence is everything.

[yaksuit]

"Good" and "bad" are just words with arbitrary value.

[jupiter]

As far as I know ,there are two trains of thought ,one being there is no good or evil just experience and the other being there is good and evil with the obligitory perpetual battle between the two.
Me personaly,I probably fall somewhere in between the two,however I do have one strict rule,the old do unto others number , there is a few more, no lying cheating or stealing .
You posed the question,if you didn`t know about murder would it be bad,that brings us back to the do unto others ,if you wouldn`t like to be murdered yourself,I guess it would be bad ,certainly not good.
However if you were a canibal and after a quick feed ,then thats another story
Kind regards James

[Tony]

This will depend on motivation and capacity/understanding.
There are varying levels of perception.
They are stepping stones.
One can use the same words but at each
level the meaning can change, become more accurate.

People need encouragement, when they reach a certain level of understanding,
then it's time to refine. What was satisfying, is no longer satisfying.

Tony

[ulli]

Refinement. If I have one belief, it is this: refinement as the ultimate goal.
It's opposite would be courseness?

Once you have determined your opposite poles and stated your preference you can start moving forward.
Until such time you can have fun looking at the world from the 360 degree position of the mountain top, but there is little room for movement up there.

[Tony]

No, room?......................... there is the whole of space!!!..........so I'm told!

[WolfRgue]

I believe Good and Bad exists. Just like Up and Down, Left and Right, Night and Day. How would one know what is good or bad without the other to balance it out? Its a point of view by which to determine your being. There are many examples of this in one's life. I can see things in my youth I thought were good, but today not so good, and vice versa. Just my simple take, I welcome other points of view.

[Jake]

We are amazing creatures with the ability to live and strive within a plethora of dualities. There can be no light without the dark, and vice verse. I often ponder this question when considering the realities of karma and reincarnation. Perhaps a karmic tie to a past life in which one has embraced the 'dark', does not get him 'punishment' in the next life, but the balance of learning about the light, now that the soul has learned about the dark. And vice verse. We all enter at our own levels of consciousness and awareness. I think it is more of a question of consciousness being at 'rest' or at 'play'. Somewhere out there, we are immersed in the light of pure being. We could not be focused and gathered in the light, were there not a darkness that surrounds. IMOE. I do not believe in a 'one size fits all' understanding of 'good and evil'. These concepts are merely points of view, and the journey is different for each of us. I read a book recently that tackled this subject, among others. The Key, a true encounter,,, by Whitley Streiber. (Fascinating read, I would recommend it to anyone)

[manny]

no one has the easy answer to good and bad.
all wars are fought with each side thinking they are good.
someone always wants to better the other person.
good ,bad is a way of perception to self.
you have to make your own mind up.

[Lefty Dave]

As cold and hot ...is all one thing...temperature
As up and down is all one thing...direction
So goes good and bad...behavior.

blessings

[ulli]

No, room?......................... there is the whole of space!!!..........so I'm told!

You can keep it. The way I see things I am still connected to a body of 70% water, and I don't plan on becoming a frozen chicken.
As far as leaving the body goes in order to leap about in those frozen regions...
not my cuppa tea either.

Going to have some green tea right now, and later maybe go down to the river, I'm a valley person.

[DeDukshyn]

"good" and "bad" are mere variable constructs of the dualistic mind, held in place over time and between consciousnesses through agreements between those points of consciousness of a predetermined behaviour of how to react in given situations.

Is it real? As real as any other mental construct I guess. Awareness of what it really is makes it far less real - not understanding the big picture fully makes it more real to the observers, ironically enough, which adds to the trapping of our consciousness in a lower state of awareness.

This is why through the controlled media we are only ever fed stories of "good" and "bad" -- ever. everything is exposed to you in such a way to make you choose a side - the controllers don't even really care which side you take - they are looking to maintain the duality in your consciousness.

There's a point of trying to be as expanded in consciousness as possible - and this seems "good" or in the direction of "good", but at some point you have accept "good" and "bad" for what they are and accept them as just the mental constructs they are as they will limit conscious expansion if clung to.

I have replaced those words in my dialogue with much more accurate ones -- "desireable to me currently" / "Not desireable to me currently" / "desireable to the whole (in my opinion)" / "Not desireable to the whole (in my opinion)"

This is far more accurate and allows further expansion of consciousness beyond the limitations of a mind that still seees "right" or "wrong"

My 2 cents ;-)

[crownme]

hello :)

if i plan to go on a diet you say. you kno in my life it would be goodoo to eat me cake if i needs the sugar and sweets :) mby even a cookie too

so i do not consider that bad

what a scenario you put there, if i was in that situation i would do that and this.. you have no idea what this mind has seen, so why do you even dare to pretend you know ? but again, i do not see that as bad becouse i do not know the scenario you are trying to paint. i do not know if the envirorment to the kidnapper was the reson he was doing what he does. i do not know if someone is holding his family and dearest hostage and forcing him to kidnap others. i do not know anything. what if the ones getting kidnapped deserves it ?
or better yet, wants it ? what if its just a game and a dirty secret ?

the possibilities are endless. i could ramble on good and bad scenarios, but do i see that man who kidnapped in your scenario as bad ? no.

again you assume you know me. i do not play god. not do i belive in such a vain thing as a "god". so petty, so small. the want and ego to have something to worship you. not my cup of tea.

and furthermore i do not split this. i ask simple questions. and i certantly do not divide good and bad and put em against eachother. you humans can handle that buissniss fine alone :)

i do not see good and bad in the manner you describe. and i do not want to stand on this planet being forced to choose bad or good, god or the devil. thats madness

i chose it all when i chose to come here. i will not stand there pointing my finger at the president or fbi that they are bad. nor will i take the other side and use you for your naive loving beings.

i will not stand in the military and fight for freedom and peace.
i will not comply and join your loving naive herd of sheeps.

and i certantly dont wanna cover it all up and split it down to "Good & Bad" .

and if you tell others that you are all good and never done wrong and hate bad so much. then your a lieng pice of you know what. and by the standards on this planet that meens bad right ? then all is bad becouse all humans lie at one or another point. so if you are gonna split hairs with me i gots scalpel and lotso hair :)

namaste

[shijo]

Poison must be turned into medicine right?Out there and inside of ourselves.You know your own poison as do i know mine.And whats left when the poison dries up? Heaps more comes reigning down. Were all a work in progress , best to live in the present moment and enjoy... practise helps.Regards to all sincere and insincere seekers.

[Davidallany]

This will depend on motivation and capacity/understanding.
There are varying levels of perception.
They are stepping stones.
One can use the same words but at each
level the meaning can change, become more accurate.

People need encouragement, when they reach a certain level of understanding,
then it's time to refine. What was satisfying, is no longer satisfying.

Tony
How can one refine perception and reach the other levels, Tony? can you please explain more for our benefit. When you talk about motives I am thinking thus" Is it good to have a bad motive if the action is trivial or the thing one says is to hurt others in a very small way? "
Thank you.

[WolfRgue]

As cold and hot ...is all one thing...temperature
As up and down is all one thing...direction
So goes good and bad...behavior.

blessings
I agree with the concept, but how do you measure?

[DeDukshyn]

As cold and hot ...is all one thing...temperature
As up and down is all one thing...direction
So goes good and bad...behavior.

blessings
I agree with the concept, but how do you measure?

"Measure" is a simplified judgement. If you look at comparisons or judgements or measurements as merely the simple and temporary tools that they are, then they cease to be harmful. It's when we unconsciously apply those measurements in judgments of our surroundings and others, that they use us as their tool rather than the other way around. They just need to be kept in their place in the toolbox and only pulled out and used properly and with control, then cleaned and put away for the next time so they don't start causing trouble ;-)

[FrankoL]

Good and bad are the same thing. Like two sides of the same coin. You were born into current paradigm in order to experience and learn polarity.

If you are love and light type person it doesn't mean that you are positive. Also war and destruction is not negative. Both might have collateral effects on something/someone else. Therefore you can never tell what your actions were (positive or negative). In fact are both at the same time.

So, step by step you learn. In the end, if you are lucky enough, you may realize that it is/was so. There is no polarity. It is action/reaction/solution.

[Martin]

It's all about yourself. You decide! Duality is what this is all about. Whatever you perceive is what is and whatever you want to perceive will or could be! Right and wrong simply reflect upon the decision you've already made. There are things that give you comfort, but that does not necessarily mean that they are "good". The same goes vice versa of course. As it was said earlier: "good" and "bad" as words do not have any real meaning without the experience that is "to be alive and to be conscious about beeing conscious" and thats brings me back to were I started: you decide!

To answer your question. Yes there are things I consider to be "good" and there are things I consider to be "bad". So they do exist. They do exist because I can perceive them. Just as every stone I can throw or three that I can touch. But in the end I know nothing really exists. Not the three and not the stone, but for now I just have to deal with them as they all were "real".

Martin

[Karma Ninja]

One does not need to scratch deep into any person to see we are animals at our purest. Beyond good and evil and understanding that they are all in the same.

Peace! ...or unrest...whichever you prefer!

;o)

[Tony]

This will depend on motivation and capacity/understanding.
There are varying levels of perception.
They are stepping stones.
One can use the same words but at each
level the meaning can change, become more accurate.

People need encouragement, when they reach a certain level of understanding,
then it's time to refine. What was satisfying, is no longer satisfying.

Tony
How can one refine perception and reach the other levels, Tony? can you please explain more for our benefit. When you talk about motives I am thinking thus" Is it good to have a bad motive if the action is trivial or the thing one says is to hurt others in a very small way? "
Thank you.

Well, let's take the negative emotions.

At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


All the best

Tony

[The One]

Let’s put it this way if this bunch of individuals i am going to list below had not come along then i truly believe we would be very bad by now. Sorry slightly off topic

Skeptics never believe in things that they cannot see or don't understand (Good or Bad). The scientific community is filled with these idiot types. If it wasn't for the bright minds of Copernicus, Newton, and Einstein, we'd still be in the dark ages and thing would be very bad dependant on your own beliefs. No one wanted to believe that the world was round or that light and space time were relative, and that the speed of light was absolute. So let me explain it to you... There are beings out there that are much smarter than you or I (Now that could be a good thing) . Their capacity of thinking goes beyond that of any computer here on earth, and they probably understand that it's better to be compassionate than some selfish, skeptical, and self-loving brute . Humans on the individual scale we think that we're unique and complicated individuals, having understood and seen things that know one understands (a typical teenager's view of the world). Instead, some other intelligences out there have seen this all in the matter of a second in their life, since their larger brains can make up for such a small life as is ours. To go a million or even several million light years isn't that hard to imagine to these ones

[jackovesk]

crownme,

Unfortunately you made me read this twice!

I even tried to read it a 3rd time, just to make sure of what I was reading? I gave up though!

I've read some out there posts in my time at Avalon!

What the Hell are you talking about! What is your TRUE message?

Will anyone here at Avalon try to explain to me, what this is all about?

[crownme]

Ellu :)

im sorry if i worded my post in a unredable way for you :/

deffently not my intention.

ok what i am talking about. i meet this subject everyday. the ones im around talk about good and bad each day. and they seem to love to talk about all other they meet.

so that have made me wonder, is there relly good & bad ?

my true message isnt complicated, i want discussion so i can read all the wonderful posts ive gotten about this subject. its made me expand my thought pattern within this subject.

vetted.. i actually had to look up the word you used here to make shure i remmembered the use of this word :)
*Vetting is a process of examination and evaluation, generally referring to performing a background check on someone before offering him or her employment, conferring an award, etc. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.*

with that in mind, i didnt really know an evaluation of me was needed for this forum. you want me gone ? it is just as easy as to ask me to leave you know if your ego cant handle me. i have no worries about leaving if you ask me.

namaste

[exchange student]

The following story is an urban legend that my philosophy teacher showed us, to demonstrate that Bad is only the absence of Good. I Hope that this opens your mind to the subject. Enjoy!




The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?  A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"  "God created everything? The professor asked.  "Yes sir", the student replied.  The professor answered, “ If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer.
 
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.  Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"  "Of course", replied the professor. 
The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"  "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.  The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.  Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"  The professor responded, "Of course it does."  The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colours and study the various wavelengths of each colour. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"  Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man!.  It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."  To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness
and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

 
The professor sat down.

The young man's name - Albert Einstein.

[jackovesk]

Ellu :)

im sorry if i worded my post in a unredable way for you :/

deffently not my intention.

ok what i am talking about. i meet this subject everyday. the ones im around talk about good and bad each day. and they seem to love to talk about all other they meet.

so that have made me wonder, is there relly good & bad ?

my true message isnt complicated, i want discussion so i can read all the wonderful posts ive gotten about this subject. its made me expand my thought pattern within this subject.

vetted.. i actually had to look up the word you used here to make shure i remmembered the use of this word :)
*Vetting is a process of examination and evaluation, generally referring to performing a background check on someone before offering him or her employment, conferring an award, etc. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.*

with that in mind, i didnt really know an evaluation of me was needed for this forum. you want me gone ? it is just as easy as to ask me to leave you know if your ego cant handle me. i have no worries about leaving if you ask me.

namaste

My apologies crownme,

I did not bother to look at your Country of origin and did not realise English is not your native language!

Forgive me, I should not have jumped to conclusions so fast...

And Welcome to the forum...

I just could'nt understand what you were trying to say...

Jack

[ulli]

Ok, crownme, I think it's time someone puts that crown on your head. Your avatar looks like you are asking for it.
Are you ready to wear your crown?

Then you better figure out quickly what is the difference between good and bad, because your subjects will judge you
And if you don't live up to their expectations, you are not only going to lose that crown again, but also your head.

[Peace of Mind]

This is about perception, but you can do what ever you want in this life; just don’t hurt anyone else in the process if you're not prepared to handle the boomerang effect...ricochets can be most unfortunate.

Possibilities are endless, creativity even more so. We are either builders or destroyers…the choice is always yours.

Peace

[Tony]

This is about perception, but you can do what ever you want in this life; just don’t hurt anyone else in the process if you're not prepared to handle the boomerang effect...ricochets can be most unfortunate.

Possibilities are endless, creativity even more so. We are either builders or destroyers…the choice is always yours.

Peace


Everything built, will be destroyed.

[crownme]

its no worries Jack. i understand if you were mad for not understanding me, i would too ask if i didnt understand something :)

namaste

[crownme]

uhmm waves o/

what are you talking about crown ? exuse me are you so shallow you think you can read who i am just by my name and profile ? o.O are you suffering from something ? taking medication ? (actually serious question)

i do not lay anything about me being crowned in that nickname. and if you notice there is not a <Space> in Crownme.

and again you judge me as you know me.. i need to figgure out what is good and bad ? uhm by who's deffinition ? yours ? god's? president ? a piece of paper? who ?
and my subjects will judge me ? you know what, if you are so pro judging, go ahead and judge me, that is not on my head. live with it.

i dont want any crowd or followers if that is what you are refferring too. i dont want anyone hanging onto my questions or words, they are there becouse i want to expand. i do not follow anyone, and i do not lead anyone.

can i ask you a question ? why are you mad at me ? why are you so passionate towards me when you dont even know a fragment about me ?

ahm yeah one thing, if i should define good and bad on this planet i do indeed know what you are talking about, does not meen i have to agree with you just becouse you get into a fit and want something your way.

namaste

[firstlook]

Good and Evil are just based on the desire to oppose something. Just a way to balance that which is not in sync, perceptually and contextually.

That said, I go by feelings more so then boundaries. Or I try to. If only for the simple fact that it keeps the my own story going as well as what I perceive.

[araucaria]

Here are some thoughts that might have been appropriate for another bigger thread (you know the one I mean), but I prefer to air them here as a concrete example of what is being discussed in this thread.

Inelia describes what she does as sitting with the dark force and bringing light to it. This sounds like a useful description of the ‘good’ that many here are trying to do, each in their own way. Now some say Inelia is not what she claims to be. If I may say so, as a mere forum user, what Inelia does is of no concern to me. If she doesn’t practise what she preaches, what is that to me if what she preaches on this forum resonates with me?

She might then have personal issues with good and bad – how a ‘bad’ person can be doing ‘good’ – like Graham Greene’s whisky priest in ‘The Power and the Glory’. But you can turn it around: how can a person doing ‘good’ be in any way ‘bad’?

Ultimately, when you sit with the dark force, you are just acknowledging that the dark force is within yourself. So don’t judge Inelia: you would be judging yourself.

The above of course also applies to Bill Ryan. But as the owner of this forum, his case is a little more complex, as we are affected by his practice as well as by his ‘preaching’. Several people who formerly loved the man have focused on the idea of censorship by him as being the thing that made everything go pear-shaped. One person (probably on Nexus) even equates censorship with fraud.

So in this analysis of good and bad let’s take censorship as one instance of ‘bad’. In the half-hour of audio where Bill is apologizing to Charles (who says Bill doesn’t do apologizing? You could have fooled me!), Charles makes it known that this ‘Q&A interview’ does not have his approval and that he would have preferred not to have given the earlier video interview either - the one he gave after months and months of delaying.

Normally speaking, Avalon and Camelot witnesses are in the business of seeking out an audience for as much as they dare reveal. This one was in the business of self-censorship coupled with effective censorship of Bill, who as far as I know was getting nothing else done during this time either.

This leads to an interesting paradox - Bill was wanting to release uncensored info (already no doubt to combat Charles’ behind-the-scenes influence by being upfront – this is what he does) while the mods and others were claiming that their misgivings were being… censored. Even back then, their misgivings were in actual fact aligned with Charles’ own wish to say as little as he could get away with. In other words, silencing Charles amounted to silencing Bill. The real censors were the ones crying foul.

This is how I see Bill’s interests coming temporarily and perfectly innocently into alignment with Charles’. He was just doing his job, treating him like a normal witness, coaxing him into saying things he perhaps did not want to say, not for fear of reprisal like the others, but for fear of giving his little game away, as indeed he did for many.

Was Bill being duplicitous, i.e. mixing ‘good’ and ‘evil’? Yes, but not towards his friends at Avalon!

Kerry Cassidy recently released a video of Neil Armstrong in which she suggests he blinks the word LIE in morse code. I would suggest that Bill was acting uncharacteristically highhandedly for similar reasons: Charles was and is a very real threat and not acting alone, and giving him a microphone was the only way to escape his unsolicited and unwanted influence.

This is one possible explanation for the probably mistaken impression some people are getting of Bill Ryan somehow being a ‘fraud’. Bill may have different explanation. Either way, don’t judge him: you would be judging yourself.

[Davidallany]

Here are some thoughts that might have been appropriate for another bigger thread (you know the one I mean), but I prefer to air them here as a concrete example of what is being discussed in this thread.

Inelia describes what she does as sitting with the dark force and bringing light to it. This sounds like a useful description of the ‘good’ that many here are trying to do, each in their own way. Now some say Inelia is not what she claims to be. If I may say so, as a mere forum user, what Inelia does is of no concern to me. If she doesn’t practise what she preaches, what is that to me if what she preaches on this forum resonates with me?

She might then have personal issues with good and bad – how a ‘bad’ person can be doing ‘good’ – like Graham Greene’s whisky priest in ‘The Power and the Glory’. But you can turn it around: how can a person doing ‘good’ be in any way ‘bad’?

Ultimately, when you sit with the dark force, you are just acknowledging that the dark force is within yourself. So don’t judge Inelia: you would be judging yourself.

The above of course also applies to Bill Ryan. But as the owner of this forum, his case is a little more complex, as we are affected by his practice as well as by his ‘preaching’. Several people who formerly loved the man have focused on the idea of censorship by him as being the thing that made everything go pear-shaped. One person (probably on Nexus) even equates censorship with fraud.

So in this analysis of good and bad let’s take censorship as one instance of ‘bad’. In the half-hour of audio where Bill is apologizing to Charles (who says Bill doesn’t do apologizing? You could have fooled me!), Charles makes it known that this ‘Q&A interview’ does not have his approval and that he would have preferred not to have given the earlier video interview either - the one he gave after months and months of delaying.

Normally speaking, Avalon and Camelot witnesses are in the business of seeking out an audience for as much as they dare reveal. This one was in the business of self-censorship coupled with effective censorship of Bill, who as far as I know was getting nothing else done during this time either.

This leads to an interesting paradox - Bill was wanting to release uncensored info (already no doubt to combat Charles’ behind-the-scenes influence by being upfront – this is what he does) while the mods and others were claiming that their misgivings were being… censored. Even back then, their misgivings were in actual fact aligned with Charles’ own wish to say as little as he could get away with. In other words, silencing Charles amounted to silencing Bill. The real censors were the ones crying foul.

This is how I see Bill’s interests coming temporarily and perfectly innocently into alignment with Charles’. He was just doing his job, treating him like a normal witness, coaxing him into saying things he perhaps did not want to say, not for fear of reprisal like the others, but for fear of giving his little game away, as indeed he did for many.

Was Bill being duplicitous, i.e. mixing ‘good’ and ‘evil’? Yes, but not towards his friends at Avalon!

Kerry Cassidy recently released a video of Neil Armstrong in which she suggests he blinks the word LIE in morse code. I would suggest that Bill was acting uncharacteristically highhandedly for similar reasons: Charles was and is a very real threat and not acting alone, and giving him a microphone was the only way to escape his unsolicited and unwanted influence.

This is one possible explanation for the probably mistaken impression some people are getting of Bill Ryan somehow being a ‘fraud’. Bill may have different explanation. Either way, don’t judge him: you would be judging yourself.
Great analysis, araucaria, thank you for the easy read yet in depth examination.

[Davidallany]

At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


All the best

Tony
Can you tell where you got this information from Tony? also can you name those levels in English please. Thank you.

[Miller]

This is tricky.

Being good or bad is surely a matter of intent. We know ourselves whether we mean good or whether we mean bad. But the way our acts are construed .... that is what's tricky and that's where our perspective comes in. So I think good and bad boils down to intent and perspective .....

Sounds really simple, but it ain't.

[Loren]

Of course there is , and not !

[The One]

All you need is GOOSE FRA BA

[Tony]

At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


All the best

Tony
Can you tell where you got this information from Tony? also can you name those levels in English please. Thank you.

Hello Davidallany,

It's a classical Tibetan view, about the poisonous emotions, but I've put two versions together. I'll try and find a way to describe it in better English.

The story describes a poison bush and how different paths deal with it. In Tibetan buddhism there is the Hinayana path, the Mahayana path, the Vajryana path, and then Mahamudra/Dzogchen. Finally Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya and Nirmanakaya. (Not very English words!)

These are level, but they are also attitudes.

Hinayana = want enlightenment for themselves.
Mahayana = want enlightenment for others.
Vajryana = ditto, but also utilise emotions.
Mahamudra/Dzogchen = see everything as wisdom.
The three kayas = Are the wisdoms.= Buddhahood.

This is just my brief description, you can write a book on each one.

So, back to the poison bush (emotions)
Hinayana, will not go near the bush.
Mahayana, will put a fence around the bush, to protect others.
Vajrayana, will turn the bush into medicine.
Maha'/ Dzogchen, will see it as wisdom.
The three kayas, are the wisdoms.


The three kayas: Dharmakaya = empty essence.
Sambhogakaya = cognisant nature.
Nirmanakaya = unconfined compassionate energy.

There are five wisdoms relating to the five negative emotions.


I'm sure this does not help.
I'll try and find an authentic version.


All the best
Tony

[Steven]

There are good things and bad things for all of us. But the good things and the bad things differs from all of us. So, good and bad are in the experience, not in the Creation.

Namaste, Steven

[Tony]

At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


All the best

Tony
Can you tell where you got this information from Tony? also can you name those levels in English please. Thank you.

Hello Davidallany,

It's a classical Tibetan view, about the poisonous emotions, but I've put two versions together. I'll try and find a way to describe it in better English.

The story describes a poison bush and how different paths deal with it. In Tibetan buddhism there is the Hinayana path, the Mahayana path, the Vajryana path, and then Mahamudra/Dzogchen. Finally Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya and Nirmanakaya. (Not very English words!)

These are level, but they are also attitudes.

Hinayana = want enlightenment for themselves.
Mahayana = want enlightenment for others.
Vajryana = ditto, but also utilise emotions.
Mahamudra/Dzogchen = see everything as wisdom.
The three kayas = Are the wisdoms.= Buddhahood.

This is just my brief description, you can write a book on each one.

So, back to the poison bush (emotions)
Hinayana, will not go near the bush.
Mahayana, will put a fence around the bush, to protect others.
Vajrayana, will turn the bush into medicine.
Maha'/ Dzogchen, will see it as wisdom.
The three kayas, are the wisdoms.


The three kayas: Dharmakaya = empty essence.
Sambhogakaya = cognisant nature.
Nirmanakaya = unconfined compassionate energy.

There are five wisdoms relating to the five negative emotions.


I'm sure this does not help.
I'll try and find an authentic version.


All the best
Tony

Good morning Davidallany,

Well, I've thought about this. I have come to the conclusion that some teachings are slightly obscured,
slightly self secret. This is so the student can gradually join the dots up themselves, to realise something,
as opposed to being entertained.
I have pushed teachers on many occasions and thought, “ Well, that isn't the answer I wanted!”

There is also the matter of some subject being slightly tricky, even the Buddha left some questions unanswered.
The question of levels is such a tricky one, because people like to think themselves at a certain level, and may
discover that may not be the case!...yet!

However that very moment of great annoyance could make the change. When one realises something,
as opposed to having information, real confidence arises.

So it's tricky. This morning during meditation, an answer just popped up. The level can be described as
refining levels of compassion. The same word, different meanings.

To keep in the tradition I'll put it this way.

Compassion can just being nice.
Compassion can be kind.
Compassion can be loving thy neighbour as thy self.
Compassion can be exchanging self for other.
Compassion can be selfless.
Compassion can be the outcome of knowing ones true nature.
Compassion can be joy and sadness.
Compassion can be engaging only for the benefit of others.
Compassion can just be compassion.
Compassion is who you are.
Compassion just is....Buddha.

There are vajrayana students that have a Hinayana attitude.
There are Hinayana students that have a vajrayana attitude.
Hinayana is the narrow path. Vajrayana is the wide path,
it's symbol is the diamond...it's cuts through anything.


All the best
Tony

[astrid]

Simple, no good or bad, its just the spin your ego mind places on things.

Its not that hard either to make what you perceive as "bad" to be actually "good"

Given that we are here to learn and grow, and increase our vibration.

It's the "bad " stuff that teaches us the greatest lessons, without exception.

This battle we are in is really a vibrational one, with one party wanting to rise,

and the other trying to keep them from rising,

while the whole time the earth herself is rising anyway.

So its a losing battle.

Either way those that are oppressing can't and won't win.

They themselves have a ceiling on their vibration,

where as those that what to evolve have no limits at all,

only that which they believe to be true.

Beyond the matrix is non- duality, and that is waiting and ready for those that want to take up residence.

SO it all depends on where u are viewing things from.

Perception is KEY.

[araucaria]

Dear crownme

You don’t mind if I call you crown?

You don’t like people analyzing your screen name? I disagree: I’d be very interested to see what people make of mine. If it’s not ‘crown me’, then what is it? ‘crow name’, with a typo? (I have seen screen names with typos on this forum and made nothing of it - I was just relieved that Mister Phi got his numbers right!). But in that case, stone the crows, what are we to make of that?

You say we know so little about you: I agree entirely; all we have to go on is your posts. So we do tend to make too much of little things like flags and avatars and the content of posts.

In your posts you have used on more than one occasion the expression ‘you humans’. I know better than to believe that you come from the land of No: this is just a clumsy abbreviation for Norway. But the Norwegians I have known might say ‘You French’ or ‘You Brits’ - but ‘you humans’? this has got to be a first.

So please tell us all, which planet are you from? It’s a small universe, as the saying goes; maybe the girl next door from you is posting on this forum as well? Now that would be interesting!

Or maybe you are one of those nice machines. If you told me you were a Cray, I’d be very impressed, but if you said you were an Amstrad, I’d know you were pulling my leg! On the other hand, I won’t insist if you feel touchy about this. But you can tell me if you are a computer; I am very computer-friendly myself after twenty-five years of daily one-to-one discussions with my many PC friends (PC as in personal computer, as opposed to politically correct!).

To come to the subject of this thread: you seem to have some difficulty with what we humans distinguish as good or bad. From a very early age, our little ones learn to go with the flow (‘to be good’ as we say) but sometimes go against the flow (to be ‘naughty’, which means ‘bad’). They like to play on what we call a banana slide, which means to convert potential energy into kinetic energy and vice versa. You climb up to the top and slide down. It is great fun, especially when several children, as we call them, operate in synergy. It can almost become a free-energy device: the kinetic energy carries you most of the way back up to the top!

Unfortunately there sometimes comes along a ‘naughty’ one who insists on climbing up the slide. To us this is obviously selfish, as it spoils the enjoyment of many others, and even the fun of other selfish children who may want to climb up behind him (it is usually a he). Such behaviour by one or few causing disruption to the pleasure of the many is a good example of what we mean by bad. It is not breaking any rules – there is no rule stating which way a banana slide must be used; it is just a very cheap way of disrupting the flow. Fortunately, the flow can be restored just by a few children enjoying themselves together, who can sweep aside any spoilsport coming up the other way. This is where accidents can happen.

So, dear crown, you are right: strictly speaking, there is no good or bad, but there is antisocial behavior, which the majority will only tolerate up to a point.

[Tony]

What is termed bad, could be seen as consciousness/awareness
reacting without its essence purity/emptiness.

These are the two aspects of our true nature, empty and cognisant/knowing.

Bad could be seen as mistaken. Mistaken meaning seeing things as real.
Consciousness sees things as solid. it is only when it is accompanied by
emptiness does it see things are they are....empty. Meaning lacking inherent existence.

So bad could be seen as ignorance. Ignorance meaning not knowing ones true nature.
Seeing that we are all ignorant, but have the potential for enlightenment... we are all in good company!

Tony

[Maia Gabrial]

Good and bad are just tools for manipulations.

[crownme]

ellu :)

yes i actually do mind if you call me crown couse that is not what my nick says :)

look if you want to lay something that just isnt there in my name, please go right ahead. that does not meen i am what you say i am. im sorry if you want to see something in my writing that isnt there.

and it isnt that i dont like anyone reading my nick and want to fantasise all day long what the meening of this nick is. i do it all the time.
what i take a issue with is the splitting and changing of one word into 2. that makes the word loose all its meaning to me. simply becouse it just aint the same word as before.

not the word i used/uses.

but again, if you want to base what you think you know about me with a lie, go right ahead. it is not on me. that is on you, sorry.

you base who i am on my posts and questions ? so i have no right to wonder what others thoughts are on subjects ive red over and over again on ? i am not allowed to expand without using my "persona" ?

just becouse i wrote something you got me all figgured out ?

you humans. again that is my way of wording some sentences. why does it bother you ? it is correct using of the word isnt it ?

and where is this comming from of bad language of norway ? im sorry if i dont care enought to write like all of the rest of you. i have my resons for writing and speaking as i do. hehe, and i am not forcing you to either read what i write or write about what ive written :)

i see humans as one, im sorry that is just my perspective. that is my assossioation in my mind to open my library all my knowledge so far about humans. with this single word for me when i use it i get a whole tree in my head up with alot of tags and words on it. assossiation. makes it much easier for to let my mind flow, my body secure, and spirit is not chained down.

aww i really have to dissapoint you. if you see me on my youtube site " slywinkl " , you will see im quite human. ugly one ill admit but hey you work with what you got.

and girl next door. that one kinda made my mind go "uhhh". im sorry but that aint it, try again :)

a machine. aint we all ? have you studied human anotomy ? the various systems working in harmony(for the most of the time) but yeah pretty much machines. needs fuel, lets out fumes. does tasks.
but again im sorry, im not something special ascended all knowing being. im not your personal jesus, keep on looking.

about this subject. why do you all assume i have no knowledge about this subject? and dont know whats right and wrong.

look i know verry well that suckerpunching someone is bad. and helping the old lady with her groceries is good.

ive red many of your religions. and know when i talk to my friend who is a priest, i know what he thinks about stealing and teach a man to fish.

does all this meen i as an individual have to agree with that thought you concluded ? i have to follow your way couse you say its the right one ?

war for peace.....
fight for freedom....
good to be rich, bad to be poor...
good to follow your leader, bad to stand for your rights..

can i ask you something ? are gonna anyway so :)
why are you accepting that your goverment are standing on your tv-screens and telling you killing is good, torture is good? that they are good for taking a decition to drop bombs on children and families, just to get to someone they say is bad.

and i bet many thought when they got saddam, finally the bad man is gone. they got him, the good guys.... i cried infront of my father when i saw they sent the first bombs into iraq.

same with osama. whole world cheering over death and killing. finally they smashed his face" good finally prevailed" "the evil is gone"

im sorry but i do NOT see the good deed in any of these actions. but it is not up to me to judge it.

and since when was going against the flow bad ? so all should just form a line and walk aftert you ? or your society. have you read books from this author Eric Arthur Blair ?

are you really trying to explain good and bad to me with uhm uhm methaphors like bananaslide o.O ? and uhm i dont see the bad in playing on a slide, even if you go up therre alone and first. you still play and have fun. i do not see your point ? we cant have fun without sync ? we are bad if we go against the flow ? raise our heads and are different from others is bad ? we cant have fun alone and together ? what are you trying to say here ? sorry if you think that is stupid of me, but when i do not understand something i want to understand i ask..

ans since when did being selfish become bad ? my ego is bad ? i just dont agree with you here. i see that as a good thing. if i aint capable to take good care of myself, how can i help others then ?

and this you teach your children, if someone is different and do stuff in a wierd way on the playground, you make damn shure your kid shunns the wierd kid ? you want kids to band together to make a other kid stand i the corner alone becouse wanted to do something different, apart from the group? im sorry but to me that is just sad and almost makes me cry.

stricklty speaking, that a way of positioning youserlf over me and preparing to judge me ?

you know what i dont care one bit if humans tolarate me or not. not my concern, and not my stupidity to let something so small and useless to slow me down.

look if you want to belive that you got this all figgured out, go right ahead. i want to know. and you can sound so adult as you want, i dont care.

i have my own life to be concerned about, im not so petty and smallminded that i have to point my finger at someone to feel good about my own situation or belifs.

again if you tolarate me or not, does it relly matter ? do you make a difference with you not tollerating me ? do you think you can change me ? i coulndt care less about the issues humans must have if they take so much out of their lifest just to not tolerate small little me.

its simply not my issue, its whoever is thinking that about me. not my problem.

thats like saying i should be hold accountable for your stupid words and/or actions..

and i simply wont change juuust becouse someone is having a issue with something i wrote on the god damn interwebs :)

namaste

[karelia]

ellu :)

<snip>

and where is this comming from of bad language of norway ? im sorry if i dont care enought to write like all of the rest of you. i have my resons for writing and speaking as i do. hehe, and i am not forcing you to either read what i write or write about what ive written :)


Sure, you can post whatever and however you please. But do note that the mods won't accept disrespectful posts, just sayin'.

[araucaria]

crownme
you see humans as one, but when you say 'you humans' you place yourself outside of that one. Not an easy position for a forum member who is by definition here to share.

If you don't like our stupid words, then don't start a thread. Don't feed the trolls!

I'm no troll and I'm sorry if my response offended you (although to be honest, I'm not sure whether it did or it didn't). I think you misunderstood me -I am quite sure you know the difference between good and bad, oh yes!

[araucaria]

Crownme
I just chanced on some of your other posts on Davidallany's Women will lead thread in which you give some details of where you are coming from. I can see how my 'girl next door' thing must have hit a very raw nerve. I am very sorry about what happened to you. I did not know. I am sure you can find support from Avalon members, myself included, but please understand that these all guns blazing posts are not the way to go about it. Please try addressing single points in non-aggressive language and we can take it from there. You have been the victim of aggression and need to move away from that way of dealing with issues. It may take some time.
all best wishes to you
araucaria

[Tony]

Good and Evil do exist.
It's like perception and deception.
It's what is going on now.

When talking about levels, it was illustrating
from the ground up.
There are levels going down also.


Tony

[Davidallany]

Hinayana path

Lol Tony,they prefer to call it Theravada.


This is just my brief description, you can write a book on each one.
Try books.

My Lama did teach me these things during and after initiations. Very helpful reminders Tony. Keep it coming, as it is a very good materials for the masses.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

What's the value of good and bad in a dream? form is emptiness and emptiness is form.

[Maia Gabrial]

Man is the one that labels things good or bad.

[RedeZra]

The following story is an urban legend that my philosophy teacher showed us, to demonstrate that Bad is only the absence of Good.


there is no duality at all ; )


dark is just a lack of light

bad is just a lack of good

wrong is just a lack of right

false is just a lack of truth

hate is just a lack of love

devil is just a lack of God


real to the right and unreal to the left


Be Real or Bye ; )


unreality has an expiration date

[Nani]

Man is the one that labels things good or bad.

Absolutely Maia, when you say something is good, bad, right or wrong you are making a JUDGMENT. Labels and judgmets are filters of the perception so you loose contact with what it IS.

Greetings.

[Nani]

JUDGMENT divides, separates us from the whole each time we make a judgment.

[Davidallany]

Compassion can just being nice.
Compassion can be kind.
Compassion can be loving thy neighbour as thy self.
Compassion can be exchanging self for other.
Compassion can be selfless.
Compassion can be the outcome of knowing ones true nature.
Compassion can be joy and sadness.
Compassion can be engaging only for the benefit of others.
Compassion can just be compassion.
Compassion is who you are.
Compassion just is....Buddha.
Very interesting, you have used compassion with different yanas, effectively changing their meanings. Thank you Tony.

[Teakai]

What is good and what is bad are judgement calls based on the perception of the observer.

So - no, it doesn't exist outside the judgment.

That does not make a person unaccountable for their actions, though.

[Teakai]

As cold and hot ...is all one thing...temperature
As up and down is all one thing...direction
So goes good and bad...behavior.

blessings

Hi Lefty Dave, but all will agree on what is up and what is down, and all will agree on what is hot and what is cold, but not all people will agree on what is good and what is bad.

[bilko]

I think the answer to your question is in the question itself.
Good and bad are contrasting situations, one exposes the other.
We create our lives around our perception of the contrast.

Our ultimate aim is growth through experience, to know our selves.
If something is "good" or "bad" for too long then there is no movement, no expansion, no growth, and so we become stagnant. Or at least our life experiences do.
Thankfully we are propelled by all other cycles of life in and around us, but without change or contrast exposing new experiences, the lessons in life; we die a little inside.

Emotions play a huge part in our perception of the contrast, without them the cognitive brain would have no problem recognizing the opportunities that experience present to us.

So; where do emotions come from and what is their function?
I was going to mention instinct but i feel that is more of a trigger than than the emotion itself. Are emotions a chemical reaction in the brain or is that what causes the emotion?

Are emotions the contrast in their essence?
Is that a separate question lol?

[bilko]

Forgive my brainstorming about emotions but i feel they are part of the answer.
I would like to think that instinct is what triggers emotions in matters of the body. Fight or flight and all sub categories included with preservation and communication with our bodies and our environment.
I would also like to think that emotion is the nudge our souls or spirit give us to act upon a situation in matters of spiritual growth.
I would like to think that emotion is how we craft our lives by raising or lowering our vibration and sending that message if you will into the universe and beyond.

So how does emotion fit in with an explanation of "good" and "bad"?
Hmm.... I don't think it does directly.

Ok, i have it...
Good and bad do not exist not as tangible things although we knew that.
I can see Good and Bad like the Schrödinger's cat experiment.
You never know until you look!
It is impossible due to circumstance, perception, chemical imbalances in people etc, etc.
Good and bad are simply mile markers on the path of life.

Phew!, now i can go to bed at last.

Good

"DOH"!

[Tony]

Dear Bilko,
I love your thought process! Understanding the emotions is the key, without the conflict of foot on ground there would be no progression. The light reveals the shadows.
If the light is bright enough, there are no shadows! The nature of the emotions are wisdoms.

All the best

Tony

[crownme]

Crownme
I just chanced on some of your other posts on Davidallany's Women will lead thread in which you give some details of where you are coming from. I can see how my 'girl next door' thing must have hit a very raw nerve. I am very sorry about what happened to you. I did not know. I am sure you can find support from Avalon members, myself included, but please understand that these all guns blazing posts are not the way to go about it. Please try addressing single points in non-aggressive language and we can take it from there. You have been the victim of aggression and need to move away from that way of dealing with issues. It may take some time.
all best wishes to you
araucaria

well waves o/

i asked by mail to be removed from this site but seems i still have acount, so i thought why the hell not leave a short message to whoever that cares to read :)

see i said that it wasnt it and you still say it hit a raw nerve ? you have a difficulty reading and understanding how words and sentences work? sorry just had to be alittle snippy at that one :)
look even if you are reading my threads, who are to say that defines me ? do you really think you can draw forth all my emotions and experiences through my life just by reading a few sentences about me and make up the rest ?

im just throwing the question out there. if i said i hated women and like to slap them around, would that make you happy ? or just by saying this sentence now you assume that i actually do that ?
and by that notion know for a fact that i do that ? without any shred of evidence ?

to tell you the truth i love women and men alike. i want them to sucseed in each their own way. i do not lie, i say that both ones does stuff.

but alas as you say...

"I just chanced on some of your other posts on Davidallany's Women will lead thread in which you give some details of where you are coming from. I can see how my 'girl next door' thing must have hit a very raw nerve. I am very sorry about what happened to you."

here you even know aparantly for a fact that a girl next door have hurt me ? or some girl are the reson for why i ask and write....

even though you know not a shred about who i am behind this screen...

and no you didnt hit a nerve , as i said i love both genders of humanity. i see Man&Woman for what they are. and the evergrowing potential in both to make this planet a joyous one. but it takes both...

418but aparantly you know where i come from so i have no say in who i am...

and about my language. why is that your main focus ? and not the issue in the thread ? why are you assulting me and denying what i say and make your own truth about me ?

look i speak as i speak and i dont judge no one else if they speak a language bad or good or are a master. as long ias i am understood with the message i dont care how it is copnveyed to me. and if someone have a problem with how i word myself they will ask if they feel it is really important stuff. and then i can try and explain more.

but if you feel you must atack me for some reson of opinion to judge me. go right ahead. i will not judge you for that.

but please respect my right to tell you when something that arent true about my beeing is being written about me..

you can try and cage me however you want, i will outgrow that cage and seek new experiences.

i wont be satisfied with just looking to get a good job, lots of cash, marry , get a kid then i can just die couse i did my duty..

im sorry if this comes of like bad but, i dont care for that kinda stuff. i have more i want to experience in a lifetime than just those 4 basic things job/marry/kid/die. oh yeah mabye win the lottery so that you can furfill your dreamhouse and/or hobby.

im sorry but ive outgrowned that one. so i dont care about that aspect. i want to grow. experience. learn. find my own happyness, not the one you tell me to have. i want to shine as who i am, not as the shadow you tell me i am.

but by all meens, read all what ive written, get mad and judge me, yell your oppinion at me. get me banned. i dont relly care :)

this is the last message anyway sooo :) many meenies humans on this forum :/

i dont wanna use half my time here arguing about who i am , taht is really booring, i live my life everyfrikkinday , i want something else than drama and this everhunt of judging who i am.

so to avoid drama i leave :) then you can finds someone else to drama with :)

i wish you all a safe and wonderous jurney, safe travels and wonderful experienses. to sum that up :)

---------Namaste---------

[Omni connexae!]

Hey,

I have a somewhat controversial philosophical view on Good and Bad's subjectivity.

To get technical, I would say that the reasons any human will label anything as good or bad is actualy objective, but is based on variable human genetic predispositions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_predisposition) and how the enviroment effects behaviour because of this - hence the subjectivity - alow me to explain:

The very basis of all morality does lie in emotional perception.

Compassion is the stem of what we consider to be good comes from.

It all really comes down to Harmony. This point is very important.


noun /ˈhärmənē/ 
harmonies, plural

1.The combination of simultaneously sounded musical notes to produce chords and chord progressions having a pleasing effect
- four-part harmony in the barbershop style
- the note played on the fourth beat anticipates the harmony of the following bar

2.The study or composition of musical harmony

3.The quality of forming a pleasing and consistent whole
- delightful cities where old and new blend in harmony

4.An arrangement of the four Gospels, or of any parallel narratives, that presents a single continuous narrative text

5.Agreement or concord
- man and machine in perfect harmony

(Being someone that scientificaly see's how everything is interconnected, and work the same way as each other: I find it to be no coincedence that harmonious notes are refered to as such because they sound "good" when played together, and non harmonious notes sound "bad". :o )

Back on topic, an action that promotes the most possitive emotional responces from the most people, will be considered the "good" thing to do. Hence harmonious.

Likewise, an action that promotes the most negative emotional responces from the most people would be considered the "Bad" thing to do. Hence division.

Inside our brain we have something called mirror neurons, when you see something happen to someone else, your brain itself cannot actualy subconciously tell the difference between you and another person. (Ever wondered why you flinch if you see someone else get cut, for example?)

This is what alows us to build a sense of sympathy, comparing what happened to someone else with something that happened to you. We can even go further then this and use our imagination to see what it would be like when something that happens to someone else would feel like to us, even if we have never experienced it before. This is called empathy.

Whenever you perceive anything, basicly, 3 things happen in your brain - a chain of events if you will.

First, you relate it to everything you know/remember -> this creates an emotional responce depending on what we know/remember -> then we create intent and take action (or not) based on the emotional responce.

Well, we all know how what we know or remember is based on our enviroment, eg. someone who is raised in a Christian household in the middle of no where, and is not subject to any other point of veiw, is going to be a Christian - like it or lump it. That's all they will understand metaphysicaly. The same can be said for racism or any form of thought for that matter. It gets alot more complicated when people are subject to opposing views ofcource, and the choice on what to believe will depend on many things: how self-aware one is, if one understand maths and logic, how set in it's ways the brain is, but I don't want to go off on a tangent so we will keep it simple for now.

Using this example of the Christian brought up in the middle of no where, he will always see that which Christianity teachs as Good, as Good. This belief is subjective in the sense that it will oppose what a child abused all his life will see as Good, but it is completely objective in the sense that anyone brought up in exactly the same way will believe exactly the same thing.

God vs. Devil - Good vs. Evil - "Possitive" vs. "Negative" - "Light" vs. "Dark"

They are all the same thing:

Harmony vs Division.

The better someone's understanding of emotions, enviroment, themselves and how they work: the more relevant their understanding of what Good and Bad is will be.

So yes, physicaly, Good and Bad does not exist per se.

It is a label people give things.

But the reasons behind why people hand out these labels is objective, the subjective aspect being their understanding of what is most harmonious.

Harmony and Division, the very basis of Good and Bad, does exist though. They are intristic ways in which nature "express' itself" so to speak. The wiser choice, if you want something to work, is Harmony.

Someone made the point about Dark not existing, it's just the absence of Light and so on. This is an intresting way of looking at it, and I see the benefits of doing so. In this sense we could say that division does not exist per se, it is just the absence of Harmony. Sometimes I think people are too wrapped up in which belief is most probable. I think people should instead start asking themselves which belief is the most beneficial. Because we can never really know anything.

To leave you all with a simple analogy:

Our bodys are made of loads of cells working together in Harmony. There does happen to be an exception where cells start working in discord, becoming divided from the "motives" of the rest. It's what humans call cancer, and I'm sure any sane person would label cancer as "bad", if anything.