The infiltration of the New Age Movement and Andrija Puharich [Archive]

stardustaquarion

22nd May 2010, 12:54

I have no doubt that we all have the ability to communicate with other parts of ourselves but channeling is something different, it requires that the personality of the channeler be displaced and that another entity take over the body, a bit like temporary possesion of he human body

Why an evolved being will need to do that to communicate with us unevolved humans escapes me, unless of course it is not evolved. It is also possible that it may be a demonic entity, as has been witnesed over millenia or a satellite that transmits directly to a person's mind as we know it happens by the testimonies that we have already read in PC and PA

Additionally to that, there is the level of personal evolution of the channel that may not be very evolved and tinged with his/her own fears and desires of having an "hero" to rescue them from their earthly difficulties, who knows what happens in someone else's mind

Taking over someone elses body is not something that is necessary in my oppinion and personal experience

Below an article that talks about the council of nine and Andrija Puharich and how the New Age movement may have been infiltrated by MKultra and the CIA

Quote

The Council of Nine
from http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/126/nine.html, 1999
(Posted here by Wes Penre, June 19, 2005)

Uri GellerOne New Age channeling cult, above all the rest, has had a huge - very disturbing influence on hundreds of thousands of devotees worldwide. Known as 'The Nine', its disciples include cutting edge scientists, multi-millionaire industrialists and leading politicians. This exclusive extract based on The Startgate Conspiracy by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince looks at the sinister origins of The Nine.

I am the beginning. I am the end. I am the emissary. But the original time I was on the Planet Earth was 34,000 of your years ago. I am the balance. And when I say "I" - I mean because I am an emissary for The Nine. It is not I , but it is the group. We are nine principles of the Universe, yet together we are one.

The declaration above is typical of the channeled pronouncements of the Council of Nine - or just 'The Nine'. They contain all the usual New Age ingredients of grandiose statements, shaky grammar and unprovable predictions. But unlike all the other channeling cults, that of The Nine has serious clout. Perhaps the reason for this is that they claim to be the Ennead, or the nine major gods of ancient Egypt (see panel). Or could there be another reason, one that owes more to The X-Files than the Pyramid Texts? Although The Nine may appear to be quintessentially a modern phenomenon, our research uncovered its truly astonishing pedigree. In fact, the story begins nearly 50 years ago, in a private research laboratory in Glen Cove, Maine, called the Round Table Foundation, run by a medical doctor Andrija Puharichnamed Andrija Puharich (also known as Henry K Puharich).Set up in 1948 to research the paranormal, among the noted psychics studied at the Foundation were the famous Irish medium Eileen Garrett and the Dutch clairvoyant Peter Hurkos (Pieter van de Hirk).Prominent members included the influential philosopher and inventor Arthur M Young and the socialite Alice Bouverie (née Astor).

In December 1952, Puharich brought into his laboratory an Indian mystic named Dr D G Vinod, who began to channel The Nine or 'the Nine Principles'. In the months before Vinod returned to India, a group met regularly to hear The Nine's channelled wisdom. Never known for their modesty, The Nine proclaimed themselves to be God, stating "God is nobody else than we together, the Nine Principles of God."

Three years later, there appeared to be independent confirmation of their existence. In Mexico, Puharich and Young met Charles and Lillian Laughead, former Christian missionaries who were by then prominent in the burgeoning UFO contactee movement. (For a description of their involvement in the Dorothy Martin circle, see Jerome Clark's 'When Prophecy Failed' in FT117.) Back in the States a few weeks later, Puharich received a letter from the Laugheads containing messages received by their group's channeller. This message also claimed to come from the Nine Principles, even - amazingly - including references to the earlier communications transmitted through Dr Vinod. Could The Nine possibly be for real?

Perhaps the answer is embedded in the career of Puharich himself. After disbanding the Round Table Foundation in 1958, he worked for 10 years as an inventor of medical devices and achieved international recognition as a parapsychologist, most famously studying the Brazilian psychic surgeon, Arigo (José Pedro de Freitas). But all that was to pale into insignificance because, in 1971, Puharich discovered Uri Geller.

At their first meetings in Tel Aviv in 1971, Puharich hypnotised Geller in an attempt to find out where his Uri Gellerabilities came from. As a result, the young Israeli started to channel 'Spectra' - an entity which claimed to be a conscious super-computer aboard a spaceship. However, Puharich suggested to him that there might be a connection with the Nine Principles, and Spectra readily agreed that there was. The Nine claimed that they had programmed Geller with his powers as a young child.

Through Geller, The Nine alerted Puharich to his life's mission, which was to use Geller's talents to alert the world to an imminent mass landing of spaceships that would bring representatives of The Nine. However, Geller - by now an international psychic superstar - bowed out in 1973 and has resolutely turned his back on The Nine ever since. Puharich had to find other channels. He joined up with aristocratic former racing driver Sir John Whitmore and Florida-based psychic and healer Phyllis Schlemmer. They found a new channeller - a Daytona cook known to history only by the pseudonym 'Bobby Horne' - who lived to regret his dealings with The Nine. Driven to the brink of suicide by their constant demands, he too dropped out of the scene - his despair being dismissed by Whitmore as "signs of instability". After this, Phyllis Schlemmer was appointed the authorised spokesperson for the entity - known simply as 'Tom' - who represented The Nine.

Puharich, Whitmore and Schlemmer then set up Lab Nine at Puharich's estate in Ossining, New York. The Nine's disciples included multi-millionaire businessmen (many hiding behind pseudonyms and including members of Canada's richest family, the Bronfmans), European nobility, scientists from the Stanford Research Institute and at least one prominent political figure who was a personal friend of President Gerald Ford.

We also know that Lyall Watson (then the darling of the alternative scene because of his seminal 1973 book Supernature) was involved, as was the influential counter-culture guru Ira Einhorn - and Gene Roddenberry, creator of Star Trek.

The key to predicting eclipses is noticing that they occur in cycles, or at more or less regular intervals. Gene RoddenberryThe Sun goes round the sky once a year; the Moon once a month. This means that, every month, the Moon 'overtakes' the sun. This happens at the New Moon, and this is when solar eclipses occur. But, of course, we don't get an eclipse every New Moon. This is because the Moon has an elliptical orbit: sometimes it passes above the Sun when it overtakes it, sometimes below. But the Moon's elliptical orbit has its own cycle: it returns to the same place it started from every 18 years or so. Thus - if seen from the same place on Earth - an eclipse will be followed by another one just over 18 years later.

Roddenberry was part of that circle in 1974 and 1975, and even produced the screenplay for a movie about The Nine. How much he was influenced by them is unknown, although it is said that some of their concepts found their way into the early Star Trek movies, and The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine (what a giveaway!) series.

(There is a character named 'Vinod' in one Deep Space Nine episode.) Another key player in Lab Nine was Dr James J Hurtak, who was appointed Puharich's second-in-command by The Nine. In fact, Hurtak had been independently channelling The Nine since 1973. Puharich and Whitmore commissioned British writer Stuart Holroyd to write an account of their adventures, which appeared in 1977 as Prelude to the Landing on Planet Earth (retitled Briefings for the Landing on Planet Earth in paperback)

In this extraordinary book the true identity of the Nine - and of Tom - was finally revealed. Far from being the chummy character that his rather avuncular name suggests, Tom is actually Atum, the creator-god of the ancient Egyptian religion of Heliopolis, and Uncle Tom with his eight mates are none other than the Great Ennead of Heliopolis,

But even with such impressive contacts, all was not well with Puharich. Lab Nine broke up in 1978 after a series of mysterious events that culminated in an arson attack on the Ossining estate, and he fled to Mexico, claiming that he was being persecuted by the CIA. He returned to the USA two years later, and appears to have played no further part in The Nine story. He died in 1995 after falling down the stairs in his South Carolina home. However, The Nine continued. Not only did Schlemmer and Whitmore continue their mission, but Dr Hurtak has also moved on. He has become a major player in the unfolding millennial drama currently being played out at Giza, but perhaps more importantly he has established himself as a New Age guru par excellence, travelling the world giving workshops on his book of channelled revelations from The Nine, The Keys of Enoch. Written and laid out in classic Biblical style, its darkly apocalyptic vision has huge numbers of influential devotees.This we find very worrying.

Another Nine channel - an Englishwoman named Jenny O'Connor - was introduced to the avant garde Esalen Institute in San Francisco by Sir John Whitmore. She and The Nine became so influential there that they held seminars and - unbelievably - were actually listed on the Institute's staff, even successfully ordering the sacking of its chief finance officer and the reorganisation of its entire management structure..

This should concern us, because many influential people attended The Nine's Esalen seminars, including Russians who were part of the Institute's Soviet Exchange programme. Some of these later rose to prominence in the Gorbachev regime and were instrumental in the downfall of Communism. (The Esalen Institute now runs the US branch of the Gorbachev Foundation.)

The Nine are very much still with us. One of their recent channels, who is also in contact with Tom, is the American writer David M Myers. He is co-author with Britain's David S Percy of that extraordinary tome Two-Thirds, a history of the galaxy and the human race according to Myer's otherwordly contacts (who clearly have no sense of the absurd). Percy - best known as a champion of the 'Face on Mars' and the 'hoaxing' of the Apollo moon landings - was at one time part of the Schlemmer circle. Among the other major proponents of the 'monuments' of Mars and their alleged connection with ancient Egypt is none other than Dr James Hurtak - The Nine's great prophet - who has promoted this idea since as long ago as 1973. Richard C Hoagland - familiar to FT readers as another unrepentant 'Mars Face' enthusiast - is also clearly under The Nine's spell. David Myers and David Percy were, respectively, American and European Director of Operations for Hoagland's Mars Mission. In fact, his interpretation of the 'monuments' of Mars comes directly from The Nine. Flake though he may appear (increasingly in these hallowed pages), but his influence over huge swathes of the hungrier mystery seekers is undeniable. This is the man who addresses rapt audiences at the United Nations.

But it is in the New Age channelling circuit that The Nine have truly come into their own. In any other circles their true agenda would no doubt have been rumbled long ago, but this is the New Age. Anything The Nine say must be sweetness and light, right? But an objective reading of their divine pronouncements reveal the first stirrings of something very nasty in Paradise.

Their words appeared in 1992 as the book The Only Planet of Choice, credited to 'transceiver' Schlemmer and edited by Mary Bennett (a one-time member of the Schlemmer circle who also edited Myers and Percy's Two-Thirds). This has had an unprecedented influence over the New Age. According to Palden Jenkins (editor of an earlier edition of Only Planet) more and more New Age channelling groups are 'realising' that the real source of their wisdom is The Nine. In fact, we have discerned what amounts to a campaign by The Nine - or their adherents - to 'take over' the New Age. It would be a mistake to underestimate the economic or even political potential of this vast subculture - rich pickings indeed.

But The Nine's influence does not extend merely to New Age channelling circles. Andrija Puharich, James Hurtak and Richard Hoagland have all lectured at the United Nations in New York. And individuals connected with The Nine are also known to have influence with Vice-President Al Gore. Of course, if The Nine really are the ancient gods of Egypt, then surely there could be fewer more significant events than their return. One may be justified in thinking that the more leading politicians who fall under their influence the better; but are they really the ancient Ennead of Egypt? Can it be that they have actually returned to sort us all out, scattering love and enlightenment from their high moral ground?

Tom, in The Only Planet of Choice, chooses his words carefully as he explains that all the races of the Earth were seeded from space-gods - except one, the "indigenous race", the blacks. He is very careful to urge us not to make an issue out of this. After all, it's not the black race's fault that they have no divine spark like the rest of us.

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the history of The Nine is its relationship to the career of Andrija Uri GellerPuharich. Recent research has revealed Puharich to have a distinctly sinister side. As an Army doctor in the 1950s, he was deeply involved with the CIA's notorious MKULTRA mind control project (see panel). He - together with the infamous Dr Sidney Gottlieb - experimented with a variety of techniques to change or induce actual thought processes. even to creating the impression of voices in the head. These techniques included the use of drugs, hypnosis and beaming radio signals directly into the subject's brain. And, significantly, he was engaged in this work at exactly the same time that The Nine made their first appearance at the Round Table Foundation. The Foundation itself is now known to have been largely funded by the Pentagon as a front for its medical and parapsychological research. Puharich was still working for the CIA in the early 1970s, when he brought Uri Geller out of Israel. Puharich's use of hypnosis is particularly interesting in The Nine circle. In the case of Uri Geller and Bobby Horne, he first hypnotised them and then suggested that they were in touch with The Nine - and lo, they were! Ira Einhorn - a close associate of Puharich's during the 1970s - confirmed to us that he believed that Puharich was "humanly directing" The Nine communications.

The evidence we have gathered strongly suggests that Tom and his fellow gods originated, not in the stars, but behind closed doors as part of a CIA mind control experiment. And what happened to that experiment? Now with hundreds of thousands of devotees, some in very high places, can The Nine be deemed a success? Of course, that depends very much on what the CIA had in mind. With their subtle racist propaganda, perhaps the flaky New Age Nine should worry the hell out of us.
unquote

http://www.illuminati-news.com/council-of-nine.htm

It is food for thought and further researching

:grouphug:

HORIZONS

22nd May 2010, 13:13

stardustaquarion

22nd May 2010, 13:27

You may be on to something stardust - this wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I understand your idea of being able to communicate with higher aspects of ourselves, but that this does not involve "channeling". Our higher self speaks through our consciousness and we are that - consciousness - we do not have to surrender to an outside entity or allow an outside voice or thoughts to speak "through" us as a channel for it. We are our higher selves and in moments of inspiration and clarity we can hear and speak words of wisdom from higher realms of being - and it is really us that is doing the speaking. Personally, I would never surrender to another outside/external force to use/speak through me as a channel - this is giving your power away and surrendering your true identity to another.

Hi Horizons

The problem of surrendering one's body to another entity is quite damaging to the divine blueprint as you can imagine, we are all unique, not two of us are alike and trying to force a diferent frequency/resonance in a body is like trying to fit a square into a round hole, it is bound to do some damage

Additionally, the need to seek an authority outside ourselves comes from school brainwashing where we are told that we do not know anything but actually if we get quiet we normally can know much more than we give ourselves credit for

I think the "New Age" religion, is tptb baby intendend to replace the old ones that have run out of favour now. Nothing new, it is a luciferian/satanic religion in which we are obligued to surrender our power to an outside "saviour"

The more I research about it the more evidence I find that the New Age movement has been infiltrated and can help us little with our awakening

:wave:

HORIZONS

22nd May 2010, 13:43

I fully agree with you. Since I came out of heavy religious movements I too have noticed the same traps, loops, controls with all the same bells and whistles to make it grand. Been there - done that - same old thing with a new name.

stardustaquarion

22nd May 2010, 13:54

I found this video from Red Ice Creations about the Project Stargate Conspiracy

This is the link to the playlist

http://www.youtube.com/user/MemeScythe#p/c/FB8A9B96566FD766/0/BD25S5lWCzo

stardustaquarion

22nd May 2010, 15:42

What can I say, there is evidence of use of microwaves to make people believe they are seeing or hearing things that are not real

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g6r_myEO42g&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g6r_myEO42g&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

It was called project Monarch, it also includes sound frequencies which are being used broadly like 440 (corrected from 444) very popular these days among other similar sound frequencies

RedeZra

22nd May 2010, 23:54

Ritual Magic, Mind Control and the UFO Phenomenon by Adam Gorightly

"It was not long after my own encounter with strange aerial phenomenon that I began to see a link between UFOs to such seemingly disparate topics as psychedelics, psychotronics, and ritual magick..."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/UFO_Ritual_Magic.htm

are Alien Abductions a cover for MK-ULTRA mind control

"According to Walter Bowart — in the revised edition of Operation Mind Control — one alleged mind control victim related an incident along these lines, purportedly occurring in the late 70’s. In memories retrieved by way of hypnotic regression, it was revealed that the victim had been the recipient of a mock alien abduction, the intention of which was to create a screen memory that would conceal the actual mind control programs enacted on the victim. The subject in this instance claimed to have seen a young child dressed in a small alien costume, similar in appearance to the aliens in Speilberg's ET"

"As chronicled in Walter Bowart’s Operation Mind Control, in the late 70’s Congressman Charlie Rose (D-N.C) met with a Canadian inventor who had developed a helmet that simulated alternate states of consciousness and realities, much like the VR eyegear-unit postulated in the movie Brainstorm. One such virtual reality scenario played out by those who tried on this helmet was a mock alien abduction. Congressman Rose took part in these experiments, which consisted of aforementioned alien abduction programme. Much to Rose’s amazement, the simulated scenario seemed incredibly realistic. This device sounds quite similar to Dr. Michael Persinger's much-touted "Magic Helmet", which has been receiving a fair amount of press in recent years. Equipped with magnets that beam a low-level magnetic field at the temporal lobe, the “Helmet” effects areas of brain associated with time distortions, and other altered states of consciousness. Although Bowart did not specifically name the inventor of the helmet in Operation Mind Control, chances are it was Persinger to whom he was referring. Persinger's name has also been bandied about by mind control researcher, Martin Cannon — in his treatise The Controllers — as a behind the scenes player in intelligence operations related to MK-ULTRA."

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/UFO_Ritual_Magic.htm

---

Hollywood's ET blockbusters

are not all entertainment

but ment to make us believe

that it's possible

what we see we accept as plausible

as Alex Collier says when asked if those aliens really exist

" well you know... it's true that anything is possible... but the more you drink the more aliens you'll see lol"

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 09:28

Thank you RedeZra, great link!

thedot

23rd May 2010, 10:26

There is a wonderful series of articles by Bronte Baxter (http://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/blowing-the-whistle-chpt-11-goal-of-the-oneness-doctrine-kill-everything-oneness-cares-about/) on what the New Age doctrine is really about. If at all it can be said that the New Age movement has been "infiltrated", then it's from the moment of its birth. As for channeling, 10-15 years ago it might be trusted yet, but today you're never sure if the "entity" you're listening to is not a Blue Beam Project operator...

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 10:55

Moxie

23rd May 2010, 11:04

TheDot, thank you for that link. I've spent endless hours reading her work and I find her cutting edge on many topics and I miss her, she's not posted anything new in many months....... I had tried before to locate this particular article because it voices so well my take on the New Age poll-parotting ad nauseum surface talk about the ills of the ego and the oneness club without undermining its rich meaning.
http://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/blowing-the-whistle-chpt-11-goal-of-the-oneness-doctrine-kill-everything-oneness-cares-about/

777

23rd May 2010, 11:36

HORIZONS

23rd May 2010, 12:29

I found this video from Red Ice Creations about the Project Stargate Conspiracy

This is the link to the playlist

http://www.youtube.com/user/MemeScythe#p/c/FB8A9B96566FD766/0/BD25S5lWCzo

This was a very interesting interview - there is a lot of slight of hand going on to be sure.

HORIZONS

23rd May 2010, 12:44

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 12:48

Thedot, thank you very much for the articles by Bronte Baxter, I agree with what she says about the deception of the gurus and the "eating" of human life force by the many gods as well as the pleasure seeking society that have changed their vertical aligment for short lived thrills

It is a must read for anyone that wants to know what happened to the hippy movement

The bottom line is, there is only one way and that is vertical! Taking responsibility for what we do with our energy is the first step because if we do not master our own energies or life force some one else will use those energies one way or another. Self mastery and self knowledge is the only way to avoid deception. We can read and see many things but we need to question everything and ask ourselves, is this.....asking me to give my power, energy, life force away?

:wave:

Beren

23rd May 2010, 13:22

Good thread, makes a lot of sense. I recall about ten years ago David Icke said the New Age movement would be the last "religious" deception. As per usual most people laughed, now here we are....

Think of everything a human being wants and needs. "They" (the elite) OWN every industry to fulfill that need. You need to drink water? They sell your own planet's rain back to you after it's been "treated". You need food? Unless you grow your own you will be eating "their" food from the supermarket of their worldwide poison chainstores. Want sex? Every perversion imaginable at the touch of a button. Want music? You get spoonfed artists who've sold their soul for success in a faustian pact. Some of the masonic ritual that goes on in pop videos is scary as hell! Want religion? They've covered the world with their temples and churches and regurgitated the same old tired story over and over again for thousands of years. New age movement is merely the latest.

BUT they can forcefeed you as much as they like. NO-ONE can take away your spirituality and you don't need an institution to teach you that.

Peace all

777

You reminded me of something, our own power. Remember how many times Jesus said to his disciples : "where is your faith? "

My point is that by this all out avalanche on us by every weapon they have ,they want to black us down to stop us from clear thought and realization of our true power given by God.
It`s like deafening the person with ton of sound until the person can not hear itself anymore.

But at the end miraculous deeds are but a tip of the iceberg of real capabilities of human ,sadly even if someone realizes their own powers they are seduced by them and turned to its lower capabilities such as brutal showings of power or control of weak or ruling or performing "miracles" in this physicality ...and thus missing the real point ,then very close to utter loss before God.

greybeard

23rd May 2010, 13:37

777

You reminded me of something, our own power. Remember how many times Jesus said to his disciples : "where is your faith? "

My point is that by this all out avalanche on us by every weapon they have ,they want to black us down to stop us from clear thought and realization of our true power given by God.
It`s like deafening the person with ton of sound until the person can not hear itself anymore.

But at the end miraculous deeds are but a tip of the iceberg of real capabilities of human ,sadly even if someone realizes their own powers they are seduced by them and turned to its lower capabilities such as brutal showings of power or control of weak or ruling or performing "miracles" in this physicality ...and thus missing the real point ,then very close to utter loss before God.

In agreement Beren

The last resort of the ego is specialness according to "A Course in Miracles."
By its very nature specialness is divisive.
Taking our power -- oh yeah, oh yeah, quickly lead to "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

When we are ready our power will be revealed to us, it cant be taken away by another or claimed by us for that matter. It is what we are.
All the conflict in this world has been caused by taking and justifying that taking as "my right"
Where is respect and Devotion for our Creator in all this? I wonder.
For sure we do not have the power to self create, We owe every breath that we take to being a gift from God.

Chris

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 14:01

greybeard

23rd May 2010, 14:21

Beren and Chirs

I respect that you have religious beliefs, this thread is about the infiltration of the new age movement and in the interest of those that are researching this matter I will appreciatte that we keep it on topic please

:focus:

Thank you

With respect Star I dont have any religious belief not belonging to any group or have any religious or spiritual affiliation.
I speak as you do from a vast breadth of reading and experience.
I have read a lot regarding new age, it would appear that it has been infiltrated by those of the lower astral who deny God.
Sorry if you felt that what I wrote was not in the spirit of the thread.

Respectfully Chris

777

23rd May 2010, 14:56

In agreement Beren

The last resort of the ego is specialness according to "A Course in Miracles."
By its very nature specialness is divisive.
Taking our power -- oh yeah, oh yeah, quickly lead to "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

When we are ready our power will be revealed to us, it cant be taken away by another or claimed by us for that matter. It is what we are.
All the conflict in this world has been caused by taking and justifying that taking as "my right"
Where is respect and Devotion for our Creator in all this? I wonder.
For sure we do not have the power to self create, We owe every breath that we take to being a gift from God.

Chris

I emphatically agree with both of you. I was merely pointing out how even our very faith is under attack from the very same, sadly misguided people and forces. The same people who sell you your cheeseburger, sell you your God when you pay for their new church roof or their shrine engrained in pure gold.

And I know you both know this I'm not arguing, since a certain shard of divinity and non-egotistical wisdom radiates from your words!

When it comes to the crunch (so many silly sayings in English huh?) we find God in ourselves, not in anything exterior and to get this back on track, new age mumbo jumbo is no different from Islamic Fundamentalism, Christian opression, or Jewish racism. It's all a control tool to feed mere mortals with the very self belief they haven't yet found in themselves.....and hence in God.

So many wise Souls on here I love it!

thedot

23rd May 2010, 15:10

... We find God in ourselves, not in anything exterior and to get this back on track, new age mumbo jumbo is no different from Islamic Fundamentalism, Christian opression, or Jewish racism. It's all a control tool to feed mere mortals with the very self belief they haven't yet found in themselves.....and hence in God.

Exactly, 777! Without slaves there would be no masters. The New Age, Christianism, Judaism, and other religions and cults worshipping some faraway God - all have the same purpose: to keep people from awakening to their own divine nature. :)

Fredkc

23rd May 2010, 15:31

Greybeard;
I am on my 3rd reading of "Disappearance Of The Universe" (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CCMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garyrenard.com%2FPreview.htm&ei=zlb5S8OtEp_GM4jY7cAF&usg=AFQjCNFEatcqtF7jKlAfWovTH0mVSV1xHg&sig2=nLdz2-xFCH69E9ik01kK7A), and beginning to wade into "A Course in Miracles" (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acim.org%2F&ei=wlf5S6GuEJ7WMLbolKEF&usg=AFQjCNG0mKdNSmm8gr3CqGkWuYqfm01mYQ&sig2=36AWh8DwbJGxSqg3pXLT8w).

Renard's book contains what I think is one of the best descriptions of the our self, our ego, and our relationship to this here place we find ourselves in.
The last resort of the ego is specialness according to "A Course in Miracles." It is the desperation of "a shade" which realizes it's very existence is drawn from what it can get you to expend your time/energy upon.

I was particularly struck by:
It should be self evident that if there is only oneness, then anything else that appears to exist, must have been made up. Furthermore it must have been made up for what appeared to be a very damned good reason.

Thus instead of judging the world and everything in it, perhaps it would be more helpful for you to ask what value you saw in making it up in the first place. It may also be wise to ask yourself what would be a more appropriate response to it now.
So much so that, I now bore everyone with it. ;)

Being a "left-over hippie" myself, I often wonder what became of the start we made. Granted the "journey towards oneness" is ultimately a singular one, in many respects, and therein lies a tale, a tail, and a paradox.

IMO part of the trap of any "new age movement", regardless of what age it finds itself is the tendency for each generation to conclude that "only re-invented wheels are round". In fact the truths most seek are older than the earth itself.

It seems that anything termed new age requires I accept any, and every notion that floats through anyone's head as some sort of universal truth. Makes me think that the operating principle of "truly new age thinking" has become "Stand for anything, or you'll fall for something."

And so I continue to have long conversations with that small inner voice.

Fred

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 17:01

Exactly, 777! Without slaves there would be no masters. The New Age, Christianism, Judaism, and other religions and cults worshipping some faraway God - all have the same purpose: to keep people from awakening to their own divine nature. :)

Could not agree more!, If one digs deep enough it is evident that many books that are tradition have being doctored also. It is only within that we can find the answers that only the small voice can give and which includes in my experience plenty of practical advice too, after all we are having a 3D experience and we should enjoy our passing here as we endeavour to co-create better future for humanity in the here and now :)

illuminate

23rd May 2010, 17:06

Fredkc:

"Disappearance Of The Universe"
AWESOME... it totally changed my perception of this thing we call reality.
GREAT book!!!

I personally don't subscribe to any religion, although I have tasted many...
catholicism was force fed in my youth, then judaism and buddhism were ingested
my choice and new age was a mix of both. I can see the sparks of truth in all religions,
but know that no one contains the whole truth...
I see the "whole truth" only existing within.

Being a "left-over hippie" myself, I often wonder what became of the start we made.

me too!!
what happened?

a mass awakening was taking place...
and these people called "hippies" were tuning in and turning on and dropping out...
it gave birth to revelations that in turn created a revolution...
then, one day, seeming out of nowhere,
a monster crept in and brought lot's of sex and drugs... we'll call this monster the 70's...
then that monster raped and pillaged and gave birth to the 80's
where the king became known as reagan...
and the hippie mantra went from "I love YOU" to " I LOVE ME"
and now called themselves "yuppies"...
now it's 2010 and I don't know why they only refer to them as baby boomers,
when clearly they are SO MUCH MORE...
now, they are repenting for the 80's and 90's by going green...
lol

WTF did happened????

talk about a government conspiracy!
they tried to shut up, dumb down and reprogram an entire generation!
they put war in your living rooms, shots in your arms, metal in your teeth,
fluoride in your water, chemicals in your food, TV in your face...
made the all american dream and the mighty dollar your new god
while dramatically increasing revenue for the BMW corporation...

but yet, some like yourself, have come through just fine. I applaud you and
your super cool generation for all you have endured...
without you, who would have led the way?
what a crazy and cool ride for your generation Fred, each of you should write a book!

your generation is proof of motivation, endurance, recovery and unlimited power of
potential from within... I wonder what you'll do next?

❤

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 17:24

Without slaves there would be no masters. The New Age, Christianism, Judaism, and other religions and cults worshipping some faraway God - all have the same purpose: to keep people from awakening to their own divine nature. :)

so if we remove organized religion

we are left with

the Republics the Monarchies the Parliamentaries the Dictatorships the Theocracies

and we are free

God is also a far away God

capable to intervene with the world at large

not only locked up within the hearts

thedot

23rd May 2010, 17:38

... we are left with ... we are free

RedeZra, "We" is an abstraction, something that doesn't really exist. Or, it only exists as long as I am part of it, but at the moment I quit, "we" immediately turns to "them", which proves that those "we" were nothing but illusion :) Thus, "we" are never free; only you, I, he, she can be.

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 17:40

RedeZra, "We" is an abstraction, something that doesn't really exist. Or, it only exists as long as I am part of "we", but at the moment I quit, it immediately turns to "them", which proves that those "we" were nothing but illusion :)

yes and so are you lol

I think that with so many I's living together

it is natural to organize into this and that

removing religions is not the same as freeing slaves and masters

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 17:41

so if we remove organized religion

we are left with

the Republics the Monarchies the Parliamentaries the Dictatorships the Theocracies

and we are free

Not really, I personally think that we can live without a goverment if we all make an effort to be self responsible. Take for example the UK, so much gets done by the people and the authorities always seems to be getting on the way. It is no paradise but I think that if the police disapears no one will niotice, same with the government. No more red tape!

I am from Peru and I know that if the police is not there we will have riots :( so it will not work there!

It all comes down to self responsibility within and without, but humanity seems to be far from that moment presently. Still we need to start somewhere and in a way it is like one's children, there is a time that they can look after themselves. Is the time for humanity near? or it is going to go the other way to a totally controled nazi OWO?

Thank you again for the link, it comfirms my own conclusions that there are forces at play that are beyond the 3D

“Crowley was aware of the possibility of opening the spatial gateways and of admitting an extraterrestrial current in the human life-wave... It is an occult tradition — and Lovecraft gave it persistent utterance in his writings — that some transfinite and superhuman power is marshaling its forces with intent to invade and take possession of this planet... This is reminiscent of Charles Fort's dark hints about a secret society on earth already in contact with cosmic beings and, perhaps, preparing the way for their advent. Crowley dispels the aura of evil with which these authors (Lovecraft and Fort) invest the fact; he prefers to interpret it thelemically, not as an attack upon human consciousness from within, to embrace other stars and to absorb their energies into a system that is thereby enriched and rendered truly cosmic by the process...”

I think there is evidence that the rulers of this planet have been working with unseen forces for many millenia and we are coming now to a moment in which people will have to decide what to do, either free themselves or fall for the NWO which conceals these entities that have infiltrated it all not only the New Age movement. I personally think it will take a big shake up to wake up humanity but who knows

greybeard

23rd May 2010, 17:46

The 60s were amazing.
Up until then you wore what your father/mother wore.
Suddenly it was a teenage world.
I was there, fortunate to play in a rock band, I felt free.
Never needed Flower Power it was over the top for a Scottish Highlander.
But we played Tamala Motown, Jim Hendrix and other great music.
Bit by bit freedom has been eroded, New age yes infiltrated.
Yet I will say this.
Freedom is an attitude of mind
I have no fear - no concern for the future -
Spirituality is not head in the clouds I am well aware of what is going on in the world.
I dont condone it.
God forgive them for they know not what they do-- they are spiritually asleep -unaware. Yes they know what they do in one respect but not in another.
If they knew that no one escapes consequences of their actions then they would possibly think again.
Yes truth has been distorted over and over again but enough of the essence remains to be found for those who are prepared to look with discernment.
If one looks within by means of prayer, humility, gratitude, meditation, surrender to the will of God, then at some point in time the Love of God will be experienced and revealed to the searcher.
It is unmistakable, it is like no other experience.

Chris

frank samuel

23rd May 2010, 17:47

We are in constant communication with the entire cosmos without having to channel, just by the mere inspiration within. In my opinion is dangerous to give away the sovereignty of your being to let an unknown entity become the subject over you . Many religions who have claim to be guided through channeling have seem some of their darkest periods by trusting these unknown entities instead of their own hearts and spirit within. Is time to reclaim our own individual sovereignty within for it is there that we will find the answers.

Many blessings to all...

thedot

23rd May 2010, 17:58

... Is time to reclaim our own individual sovereignty within...

I would only add: "... and better die than step back". Otherwise it won't work better than stopping smoking 20 times a day :)

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 18:17

I think that what Bronte Baxters wrote explains it better than me, it is not about seeking god, it is about being all that we are or following ourselves. The traps are many and the illusion of enlightenmet pervasive

Quote

Individuality in league with Oneness (not Oneness alone) will win the day and restore human freedom. The gospel of Oneness, all by itself, supports the New World Order. Proponents say it doesn’t matter if the world goes to hell in a hand basket, because after all, this world is an illusion and only Oneness Consciousness is real. If we know that, they argue, it doesn’t matter what happens, because there’s really no happiness or suffering, right or wrong, life or death, good or no bad — only the Oneness. So who cares?

I understand how people caught in the web of Eastern religion and New Age mumbo jumbo come to those conclusions. Their teachers’ purpose is to make them passive, “surrendered to the One,” their ego (personal selfhood) made into the enemy that must be killed. The teachers state it outright: “ego death” is the goal.

But that conspiracy-conscious people can fall into the same plight, instead of raising a cry for freedom and life in this world, came as a shock to me. I realize now it’s because Truth Movement leaders themselves sometimes combine the Oneness Doctrine with their research and information on the conspiracy. These people may have mystical experiences of their own that they trust in the way the religious trust their gurus, never questioning where they came from or why they were given to them.

The assumption seems to be that if it happened in my head and was accompanied by euphoria and fireworks, it must be true, and proof of the nature of the universe. But if the Illuminati extend to realms between visual perception (and evidence indicates they do – see my article series, Blowing the Whistle on Enlightenment), the Illuminati could be the source of much of mankind’s mystical experience. It’s easy for beings in the Unseen, adept at thought transference, to implant ideas in the minds of willing seekers, generating chemical changes in their brains and bodies and making them feel like they’ve been kissed by God. This would be particularly easy if the seekers have imbibed hallucinogenic substances.

I believe that well-intentioned, semi-depressed people are being implanted with messages that God has sent them to save the world. The urgency this produces gives their lives a particular sense of meaning. The message they receive is either that there is a war on among the Powers of Light and Darkness, which they must help fight, or that seeing through the illusion called reality and uniting with Infinite Oneness is the end-all and be-all of human existence. Both messages hold enough truth that they appeal to those who receive them as genuine. Both are so flawed as to point the receiver in the wrong direction, toward beliefs that favor humanity handing the universe into the Illuminati’s conniving hands.

The Light and Dark War of Principalities is nothing more than the Good Cop – Bad Cop Game taken to celestial levels. Like the eternal war between the Democrats and Republicans, it is unreal – a smokescreen designed to hide where the real action happens. Lucifer and Jehovah are on the same side: control of humanity. The “gods” and “demons” of Indianism are on the same side. As long as mankind provides the loosh (life energy) to the nether worlds through worship or suffering, all in the Fourth Dimension are happy.

More http://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/blowing-the-whistle-chpt-11-goal-of-the-oneness-doctrine-kill-everything-oneness-cares-about/ worth the time to peruse and ponder

:grouphug:

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 18:23

Is time to reclaim our own individual sovereignty within for it is there that we will find the answers.

God is Sovereign

which is within and without

individual sovereignty is pseudo sovereignty

unless the individual actually transcends ego

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 18:34

thedot

23rd May 2010, 18:35

God is Sovereign
which is within and without
individual sovereignty is pseudo sovereignty
unless the individual actually transcends ego

Wow, neither Mme Blavatsky nor Henry Kissinger could put it better :)

greybeard

23rd May 2010, 18:41

God is Sovereign

which is within and without

individual sovereignty is pseudo sovereignty

unless the individual actually transcends ego

Any thought that enlightenment is a limitation is a joke and a gross misunderstanding of what happens when the illusionary ego dies.
Thousands of years of subjective experiences confirms this truth as opposed to new age mumbo jumbo.
Regards Chris

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 18:41

Wow, neither Mme Blavatsky nor Henry Kissinger could put it better :)

lol and none of them have said it either

frank samuel

23rd May 2010, 18:42

God is Sovereign

which is within and without

individual sovereignty is pseudo sovereignty

unless the individual actually transcends ego

The heart within you is connected to the origin of all things . I often look at the mirror within and I realize the I is part of the we as it is part of the all. Each individual creation has its own unique signature and while most people look in the external world for answers ultimately it is the spirit within that empowers your heart and dissolves the many concepts of this so call reality. There I found my inner peace and tranquility amid the storm.

Have a great and wonderful awesome day everyone...:wub:

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 18:50

http://video.google.com/videoshare?docid=2967542171184509301&hl=en

This video is a 45 minutes video about MKultra, it explains how individuals can be mind control and even be killed

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 18:57

The heart within you is connected to the origin of all things . I often look at the mirror within and I realize the I is part of the we as it is part of the all. Each individual creation has its own unique signature and while most people look in the external world for answers ultimately it is the spirit within that empowers your heart and dissolves the many concepts of this so call reality. There I found my inner peace and tranquility amid the storm.

yes yes yes

the heart is like a lotus of a thousand petals

the bud is in bloom

to reveal the jewel within

thedot

23rd May 2010, 18:59

lol and none of them have said it either

They just didn't put it so short :) But this is exactly what they want(ed) people to think and say: "Transcend your ego and ... follow mine!" :)

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 19:07

They just didn't put it so short :) But this is exactly what they want(ed) people to think and say: "Transcend your ego and ... follow mine!" :)

That is so true, tptb just wants sheeple that can not think by themselves, hence the doctrine of killing the ego that way we ignore the reality around us and we let them rape the planet and rape our souls!

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 19:10

They just didn't put it so short :) But this is exactly what they want(ed) people to think and say: "Transcend your ego and ... follow mine!" :)

really

when you overcome ego

there is no follower to follow

when still inflicted with ego

follow God

thedot

23rd May 2010, 19:14

really
when you overcome ego
there is no follower to follow

when still inflicted with ego
follow God

And if God is not around, follow Benny the XVI, lol! :)

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 19:19

Chris, with all due respect, you have your own thread about the EGO.

I personally think the ego can not be transceded, it stands for epigenetic overlay. We can not kill the DNA which generates the EGO we can only direct its energy (prana, chi, power etc) towards what we want to create. We can de-brainwash ourselves and change our beliefs as one will put on and take off programs from the computer but we can not delete the operating system so to speak because then we are not able to compute what is happening in our reality

It is a falacy that we can kill the ego and makes people enter into the guilt trap of never being able to transcend the spirit hardware of expresion in this reality so they become their worse enemies. Religion have been using that technique for millenia making people feel bad about themselves and workship a god that will never forgive them

But this thread is about the infiltration of the New Age movement by tptb, true to say that one of the things they want is that people become "egoless" so they can become more easy to manipulate but you do not agree with that point of view so I don't understand the point you are making with regards to the infiltration, are you supporting tptb perspective instead?

We know that religions throught the ages have done the same but this thread is not about that

I consider important to debate the infiltration because most people are somehow interested in the New Age, it is the inn thing these days and there are many people awakening which is the reason I started this thread

Many people does not know that the ones that initiate the New Age movement were satanists and it is easy to buy into their sweet words that say that we all should embrace a new world religion called the New Age which has its foundations on the same dodgy rituals as the previous ones and give our power away to a new god, ET, old egyptian god, etc

Now you don't agree that we have any power so I can not understand which is your message with regards to this conspiracy?

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 19:26

And if God is not around, follow Benny the XVI, lol! :)

but you see God is around

even if you believe it or not

you can find Him within

but He is also above and all around

thedot

23rd May 2010, 19:37

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 19:56

Beren

23rd May 2010, 20:03

I really and sincerely don't understand what problem people who call to "transcend the ego" have with their egos! Ego is my enemy only if it governs me; but if I follow my Soul, my ego is my ally - kind of my Soul's "law enforcement". Ego is what makes me an individual, and as such it is what allows me to be sovereign. Because sovereignty means "supreme power or authority", which, for a human being, can only be individual! By denying it, an individual accepts someone else's supreme power over himself and thus becomes a slave of that someone. Be this "someone" a government or God, doesn't change anything - a slave stays a slave.

Thedot,
maybe we all mix ego with true pride.
Ego is pride on steroids.

Also one led by ego is not aware,walks in the darkness but thinks that walks in light.
And here is exactly your essence Stardustaquarion with this thread; everything is essentially connected and you can not dismiss it.

New age is infiltrated with ideas which were boosting ego over healthy pride,which makes us individuals(thedot)...
Ones who infiltrated ideas were Government`s agents from various service agencies. Now ones who gave orders were listening orders from secret government formed of bankers and illuminati which again were following orders from spiritual entities ,which again are standing against God and Jesus and thus do all they can to fight the truth.
So whenever some group of people find out about different way that darkness wants,immediately those entities send the message to their servants and them to their servants and they to their servants until finally reaches masses in a form of infiltration or open road blocks to any new idea or movement.

See the pattern?

it`s not about new age movement or anything under the Sun .
It`s about that old battle in between fallen beings who rebelled against Creator and wish still to ruin his works.
Unfortunatelly for fallen ones, they will be left out the grand plan of Creator - humans who are perfect in body and in spirit-brothers of Christ,capable of all that he is capable. True masters of the universe - by Creator`s will.

And here comes Ego again; ego is lack of knowledge .And it is healthy to feel pride when it is here full knowledge of God and his plans.
No one can become as Christ if he or she feeds ego (if they do not learn) . Again Christ was proud about who he is but never placing himself above Father!

Now look back again at new age movement, they fed people up with wrong ideas and grew them out in people. Seed of ego and evil were sown and we see now its reap.

shiva777

23rd May 2010, 20:24

there is so much confusion and distortion in spiritual and new agey teachings about the ego...

The EGO is the sum total of our thoughts,feelings,subconcious and concious minds.The ego is the sum total of ourselves that functions in daily life,that thinks,feels,talks.acts and so on...so the term "EGO" is a NEUTRAL term.it is used to refer to ourselves as a personality in daily life.So we are not trying to destroy our ego,we are trying to create a POSITIVE ego,one that thinks,feels,acts in a positive and harmonious way with our TRUE SPIRITUAL BEING.

When many teachings speak of getting rid of the ego they should be speaking of getting rid of the NEGATIVE ego ONLY.
The NEGATIVE EGO is our fear-based and seperative thinking.

Many spiritual practitioners who labor under the misconception that ALL ego is BAD and that anything to do with our ego we should avoid at all costs do not understand INTEGRATED AWAKENING.
THIS attitude in itself leads to a host of IMBALANCES and FRAGMENTATION.

On the Spiritual path of INTEGRATED MASTERY we are NOT trying to destroy our ego we are trying to heal it in to a positive,harmonious,balanced TOOL.In order to do this we need to overcome our NEGATIVE EGO which is our fear based and seperative thinking.

There is so much ESCAPISM in ancient spirtual teachings and new-agey thought that leads to superficial states of "awakening" because of this misconception that the ego needs to be destroyed.It leads to FRAGMENTATION that sometimes appears as "enlightenment" but it is NOT!

HORIZONS

23rd May 2010, 20:28

I was studying and working with A Course In Miracles several years ago (Disappearance of the Universe as well), and went to some meetings too back then. It got really strange, and as I researched it more I remember reading some articles about how the main guy that helped bring ACIM into being was a CIA operative undercover as a psychologist, and that this was an experiment into how tptb could implant a message into someone's mind as a voice (Jesus in this case) and start a whole new chain of thought in human consciousness. This went on for many years until ACIM was born. It seemed to me then that the message of ACIM calls for a total surrender of your individually - but I think that Infinite Individual Expression of Being is Oneness. The One infinitely expressed as individuals all free to express their unique perspective of life.

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 20:30

Can we go back to topic please Beren not all is related to religion, thank you :focus:

This videos are about channelers

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Beren

23rd May 2010, 20:42

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 20:47

Can we go back to topic please Beren not all is related to religion, thank you :focus:

let's not put limits on the flow of consciousness Star

it will get back on topic track soon enough

and as you know everything is connected

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 20:50

let's not put limits on the flow of consciousness Star

it will get back on topic track soon enough

and as you know everything is connected

It may be conected but there are already threads dealing with the Ego specifically. I do appreciate your imput on the infiltration conspiracy :)

frank samuel

23rd May 2010, 20:52

I wish not to stir away this thread just a general comment if you guys and gals will allow me, at one time in my life I studied theology and the term new age refers to anything not christian. I doubt most of us can be label Christians in the traditional sense, in that sense we are all stuck with the label new age thinkers. No offense to anyone. http://www.watchman.org/profile/nwagmpro.htm

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 20:56

Stardust,
I understand your point but I am not talking about religion!

See the pattern here?

When you wish to expose something ,it`s already labeled into some area where people does not wish to talk through.
It`s NO NO zones.
People wish to shed a light on some area but then steps already imposed mechanism which suggest human mind that : "this is not important or this is off topic or this is bull-do not pay attention to it..."
And the worst of all no one is immune to this programming of our mind through TV,Internet,media, movements and rest.

We are not talking about religion here and what are channelers?
Ones who receive instructions from spirit world- where are some of the real human enemies.
See the root of the problem?

I am talking about deeper stuff, real reasons behind all this trouble upon Earth.

But if you think that this is not important as an addition here ,well I will stop writing.
Thanks,

Beren

Thank you Beren, we are not talking about all the problems of the world here only the New Age movement infiltration conspiracy. Channelers are part of the New Age movement and many of them are receiving messages from satellites and they do not know it. The reason I posted the videos is because it goes to show that the channelers themselves do not know what is speaking through them and therefore much of the New Age information presented by channelers is questionable. If you read the thread from the begining you will understand were I am coming from

So, do you think the New Age movement was or was not infiltrated by tptb and if yes which methods do you think they used?

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 20:59

The EGO is the sum total of our thoughts,feelings,subconcious and concious minds.The ego is the sum total of ourselves that functions in daily life,that thinks,feels,talks.acts and so on...so the term "EGO" is a NEUTRAL term.it is used to refer to ourselves as a personality in daily life.So we are not trying to destroy our ego,we are trying to create a POSITIVE ego,one that thinks,feels,acts in a positive and harmonious way with our TRUE SPIRITUAL BEING.

right first step is to bring about a positive personality

if that can be done

everything will sort itself out in time

transcending ego means transcending the personality that experiences duality

but this is the last step

only for adepts lol

stardustaquarion

23rd May 2010, 21:06

right first step is to bring about a positive personality

if that can be done

everything will sort itself out in time

transcending ego means transcending the personality that experiences duality

but this is the last step

only for adepts lol

Going back to topic RedeZra, what do you think, is the New Age movement infiltrated, if yes who do you think infiltrated it and how?

Beren

23rd May 2010, 21:13

So, do you think the New Age movement was or was not infiltrated by tptb and if yes which methods do you think they used?[/QUOTE]

I already wrote it Stardust, New age movement IS placed by demons .

I explained the mechanism how they do it in one of previous comments.

I wrote the reason why they do it.

It`s not about ego or whatever else,that is just a tool in demons hands.

And who are demons?
Wicked spirits ,evil spirits who are at war with us.

They infiltrated all movements through all ages in order to destroy us.
New age is their attempt to show their "light" ...

Showing light as darkness and darkness as light.

Now you simply can not avoid talking about Christ here since he explained their deeds and mechanisms.
And Christ is the only protection against demons.
Christ received power from God and he shed a light on all.

Remember the situation when he expelled legion of demons from a man?
When he was approaching the man ,demons saw him and were utterly afraid,and begging him not to send them in abyss.

Same is today.

Demons will be destroyed . But until that day ,we have to know the truth about them and their posing as "light" through channellings.
New age is typical demon thing ; lies cloaked in truth ,so innocent will fall their pray.

Everything is sugarcoated in light and love but utterly dangerous.

But also being Christian is much more than "Christian" religions tell you. They too are infiltrated by demon teachings over the ages.

See the pattern Stardust?

Whenever truth is ,there demons rise to block it and spoil it.
God is allowing that so that every soul will show whom they trust, God or demons.

thedot

23rd May 2010, 21:33

The One infinitely expressed as individuals all free to express their unique perspective of life.

Horizons, it's even simpler: not only individuals "are free" to express their uniqueness, but they have no other choice but do so. :) Otherwise they don't exist as parts of the ever-changing universal hologram. Not only every part of this hologram contains the whole, but every change in the tiniest part produces a change in the whole, and vice versa. Quantumly speaking, each and every one of us is a part and the whole at the same time. This also means what all religions want us to ignore: that every one of us is a Creation and a Creator, that there are no other "creators", and thus no other "saviors", than ourselves. This is what Gandhi meant when he said, "Be the change you want to see in the world". This is what John Lennon meant by "War is over, if you want it".

In the New Age doctrine, Oneness is impersonal, and thus anti-personal, and thus anti-human, because humans only exist as persons, as individuals. But there is another meaning of Oneness, which doesn't implicate the sacrifice of one's Self, and which I prefer. It's the Oneness of spirit and matter in every human being, with our spiritual half (the Soul) governing over our material half (our body, or rather bodies - physical, mental, emotional and astral). It's through this, and only this kind of Oneness that the whole (the universal One) can infinitely express itself - when there is only a spiritual half, all souls fuse into one, so there is nothing to express infinitely; and with only a material half, infinite expression is also impossible, because matter is mortal. :)

shiva777

23rd May 2010, 21:36

"In the New Age doctrine, Oneness is impersonal, and thus anti-personal, and thus anti-human, because humans only exist as persons, as individuals. But there is another meaning of Oneness, which doesn't implicate the sacrifice of one's Self, which I prefer. It's the Oneness of spirit and matter in every human being, with our spiritual half (the Soul) governing over our material half (our body, or rather bodies - physical, mental, emotional and astral). It's through this, and only this kind of Oneness that the whole (the universal One) may infinitely express itself - with only a spiritual part, all souls fuse into one, so there is nothing to express infinitely; and with only a material (mortal!) part, infinite expression is also impossible"

well said!....there is a not so subtle difference that some don't seem to realise..anyway,talking about this any futhur in this thread seems pointless,it's all been said...now careful with that negative ego ,become the ego of your individual GOD expression and get on with it!

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 21:55

Going back to topic RedeZra, what do you think, is the New Age movement infiltrated, if yes who do you think infiltrated it and how?

good question

I think that the New Age was a set up from the start to remove religion

for let's face it

the Elite are not exactly on the same page as Jesus

it's a battle of believes

the sovereign individual vs the authority of Jesus

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." - Matthew 28:18

if the Elite makes us believe in the slogan of the sovereign individual

then it all descends down to the survival of the fittest

which is the Elite and the ones they handpick

and in a generation or two

after the removal of religion

our children will accept serfdom to the Elite

for they will not know any other way of life

but I belive the Elite has been barking up the wrong tree

and that heaven and earth soon will see

unto whom belongs all authority

thedot

23rd May 2010, 22:11

the Elite are not exactly on the same page as Jesus

:laugh: Of course they're not on the page that they have been editing and rewriting for centuries to serve their needs! Just to remind you, the first public edition of the New Testament had been released only by the end of the 17th century; before that, only the clergy could read it for themselves. All others had to believe their interpretations.

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 22:29

:laugh: Of course they're not on the page that they have been editing and rewriting for centuries to serve their needs! Just to remind you, the first public edition of the New Testament had been released only by the end of the 17th century; before that, only the clergy could read it for themselves. All others had to believe their interpretations.

well let me remind you

that the Bible is preserved by the blood of the martyrs

many of the early clergies died to defend sacred ground and not denounce Jesus

so that we alive today

can read the Gospel of Christ

thedot

23rd May 2010, 22:36

well let me remind you
that the Bible is preserved by the blood of the martyrs
many of the early clergies died to defend sacred ground and not denounce Jesus
so that we alive today
can read the Gospel of Christ

"Gospel of Christ", lol! Are you joking? The first of the four gospels was written 250 years after the "events"! Even the word "testament" is misused here. What applies better is George Santayana's definition of history: "A pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there".

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 22:39

"Gospel of Christ", lol! Are you joking? The first of the four gospels was written 250 years after the "events"! Even the word "testament" is misused here. What applies better is George Santayana's definition of history: "A pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there".

fine it's a matter of faith

greybeard

23rd May 2010, 22:42

Dear Star before I head back to the ego thread would like to say a few things regarding the main topic.
First I am a qualified Hypno-therapist and NLP practitioner -retired so I know about programing and mind control.
The new age movement is infiltrated and controlled by channeling from the lower astral. The messages are dressed up in love and light terms but they lead people progressively away from all that is healthy to society. The media is also full of it.
Political correctness reigns without realization of where it is leading.
"Music" like gangster rap (Kill your mother rape your sister stuff lyrics) brain washes susceptible people.
Some heavy metal music actually has a contra rhythm with subliminal commands -- some even induce murder and suicide particularly in those who are weakened by drugs or alcohol.
The Illuminati are probably controlled by the lower astral without them even realizing it.
The lower realms are heading towards the hell region and deny God.
It is all about control --- how better to control than through the human ego?
Saying no more Star.
You are welcome to contribute/visit the ego thread any time.
Regards
Chris

shiva777

23rd May 2010, 22:54

what if whenever Christ referred to "me" he was just speaking of a level of conciousness called "Christ Conciousness"..the "no fear,no separation" conciousness and the Bible and Christianity was manipulated to control the masses through making Jesus a :saviour; individual...why do "christians" find it so difficult to realise that when Jesus said "only through me can you get to the father" or something like that he meant only through "Christ Conciousness"(which Jesus was just one of many who achieved that "Christ conciousness")can you get to Cosmic Conciousness.(both Father and Mother and beyond)..Jesus also said "that which I do ,you shall do and far greater"...since the purity and frequency of the earths grids are rising we can do what Jesus did and more and retain our physical bodies on Earth..which Jesus couldn't at the time because the earths vibration was very low....theses are just simple concepts that lead to much higher ones...Christians are in for a huge shock as many of us are working at collapsing the timeline that resulted from the FALSE Jesus Crucifiction holographic insert being implanted here...watch as the churches collapse,the preachers lose their corrupted "powers" and people learn that what Jesus supposedly did,each of them can do and MORE!!!...no more saviours,martyrs or organised religions needed...just watch and be gentle with yourselves as your psyches get straightened out

RedeZra

23rd May 2010, 23:06

what if whenever Christ referred to "me" he was just speaking of a level of conciousness called "Christ Conciousness"..the "no fear,no separation" conciousness and the Bible and Christianity was manipulated to control the masses through making Jesus a :saviour; individual...why do "christians" find it so difficult to realise that when Jesus said "only through me can you get to the father"

the historical Jesus was awake and aware in the socalled Christ consciousness

which makes Him alive and available forever and ever

capable to manifest and intervene with the devotee

...since the purity and frequency of the earths grids are rising we can do what Jesus did and more and retain our physical bodies on Earth..which Jesus couldn't at the time because the earths vibration was very low....

this is just rubbish

Christians are in for a huge shock as many of us are working at collapsing the timeline that resulted from the FALSE Jesus Crucifiction holographic insert being implanted here...

rubbish as well

thedot

24th May 2010, 00:41

the historical Jesus ...

There is no such thing as "historical Jesus", not more than "historical Mickey Mouse". Not a single chronicler living at that epoch in that region mentions anything close to what is described in the Gospels. On the contrary, many of the Gospel stories had already been known (and recorded!) 3000 years "BC". Much of the texts in the Old and New Testaments were "borrowed" and "adapted" from Sumerian texts. The Bible's authors just forgot to precise on the cover, as Blues musicians do: "Traditional. Arranged by ..." Hey, don't tell me you didn't know it!

RedeZra

24th May 2010, 01:15

There is no such thing as "historical Jesus", not more than "historical Mickey Mouse". Not a single chronicler living at that epoch in that region mentions anything close to what is described in the Gospels.

why don't you do a little research into this

I will list some names for your convenience

Early Church fathers
Clement of Rome (c. 96)
Ignatius of Antioch (c. 107–110)
Justin Martyr
Papias (c. 90)
Quadratus (d. 124)

Greco-Roman sources
( late 1st and early 2nd centuries )
Josephus
Tacitus
Suetonius
Pliny the Younger

here is a nice place for starters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

thedot

24th May 2010, 01:28

RedeZra

24th May 2010, 05:53

RedeZra, have you checked that "nice place for starters" yourself, lol??? The earliest of those chroniclers, Flavius Josephus, was born in circa 37 AD! Thank you for pointing at Wikipedia for confirmation (though there are more trustworthy sources than anonymous Wikipedia articles): not a single contemporary chronicler noticed the "First Coming"!

Jesus and the Apostles were not exactly popular with the Jewish authorities

Jerusalem persecuted and Rome killed almost all the Apostles and many of the early christians

Jerusalem and Rome wanted to erase even the memory about Jesus and the Apostles

Paul gives his first hand account of his focused persecution of the followers of Jesus
before his conversion when writing his letters well before the fall of the Temple

Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD

"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians - they are so unlike your Christ!" (Gandhi)

that's because Christ is Divine and the Christians are humans - some in name and form only

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 09:49

This is a playlist that explains Christianity and the New Age movement, I have not watched it myself yet but I will do this afternoon

http://www.youtube.com/user/SKYSPLASH#p/c/5362A8BBE7E8B5DC/0/dl0U8aA7vEM

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PS I have listened to some of it and my goodness, it is worth watching! It goes to show how backwards we used to be and how not even those that are church goers are free from some level of infiltration and why churches are up in arms against all new thought as it has been for all its existance
:faint2:

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 09:59

This is a link the "Spirit World" by Chris Everard, a must see to understand the manipulation of humanity by a power elite

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Here is the link to the playlist http://www.youtube.com/user/sativasuncloud#p/a/u/2/xOZRO2FuiKE

Jesus is a greek name, not a jewish name. Simple logic indicates that there could not have been a person with that name in Caldea at the time that is indicated. Nor would he had be blond, blue eyed caucasian. He had to be easter mediterranean. I am not saying a wise man did not existed at that time, I am saying that there is a weird manipulation by the Church of suplantation of names in the 3rd century as well as the editing of whatever scrolls were around. It was the Nicaea council. Being and ex catholic I understand the indoctrination.

No one can save us, that will be against free will. We have to save ourselves individually from within if there is such as thing as salvation. Salvation from what? or is it the expansion of our consciousness what we are after.

For 2000 years the churches have ruled and all that we have seen is pain, poverty, explotation and wars. I don't want that in my life. Nor I want to give my power away to anyone, no matter how wise the person appears to be. Why a wise person will need my power, my energy, my life force?

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 11:30

Ok I have found this video that puts forth a question that I have always wanted answered, I know it could be considered off topic but it isn't since so many have brought the matter forth

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The playlist http://www.youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates#p/c/C1C78205F373F865

Food for thought

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 12:09

777

24th May 2010, 12:15

Ok I have found this video that puts forth a question that I have always wanted answered, I know it could be considered off topic but it isn't since so many have brought the matter forth

The playlist http://www.youtube.com/user/ToddAllenGates#p/c/C1C78205F373F865

Food for thought

First let me say I'm not at all Christian, but also I do think they get a very bad press thanks to a bloodthirsty history, a secular, greedy, pagan church and a disturbingly evil undertone to some of it's clergy.

Yet Christians can be the most loving kind people you could meet. They can also be the most blind, blinkered and self-evasive non-thinkers you could meet.

Like all religions to date (including the New Age movement which I would now happily place as a religion), Christianity has stolen it's story from early Pagan Sun worship. In churches across the land, Jesus is depicted as a white man (which is utterly rediculous) with a sun behind his head on stained glass windows. That is no halo, a halo is above the head (according to the bible) with a hole through the middle. No. These are discs behind the head with sunshine rays coming off them, as the masses glare up at Jesus and believe they are worshipping the Son when in fact it's the Sun. Even the festivals are stolen. Christmas was originally Yule in Paganism, Easter was Ostara.......lets look at that for a minute. Ostara is the Spring Fertility festival in paganism. This is why the tradition carries that people give eggs to represent the female fertility.....even the word oestrogen is pronounced like Easter yet spelled like it's earlier Pagan cousin Ostara. No need to explain the connotations of rabbits.......

The bible was written by men to fool men. They were not there when Jesus was alive. It has been translated God knows (literally!) how many times under who knows what kind of political incentive or leverage. It's inconsitencies are nothing short of amusing.

I wish Christians would recognise and admit this because it's very easy to defend your lack of research and non-commital defense of that which you hold so dear with "well it's my faith so leave me alone". If it's your faith, by the very incentives set out by Jesus himself you should be armed to the teeth with info for non-believers just as He was, not just go back and hide in a box coz it's easier.

All that said, I do believe Jesus lived and was the embodiment of God. This is where the video asks "how can Christianity be mono-theistic when we've got a God and a Son (Sun) who is also a God"? Well to be fair, the son was representitive of God on Earth and not actually Him, hence why he could ask "Why have thou forsaken me". So I think that point is easily defended.

Also I think the Christian religion in general would have a much better time in the world if it removed it's bible which is utter propaganda jibberish and removed it's echelons of power through PEOPLE. In England to this very day, unless you're rich or clever you go to a state school.....OR......your mum can sweep the church for six months with no faith whatsoever and you can go to a better Christian school. I mean the whole charade is rediculous. Why doesn't this religion help itself?!?!

Also Christianity would have far more influence if it accepted people under it's wing who do not accept the dogma and lies. I BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND I PRAY TO HIM. I also meditate and try to live with love in my heart all the time. Yet I'm going to hell according to this badly organised, innaccurate and extortionate hierachy that perpetuate this half-belief.

Surely a true Christian would stand against this, safe in the knowledge that if they don't their religion will die? I KNOW I DO!

In this way it's no different to the New Age religion, or any other for that matter. It's the bull**** machine in action again creating little boxes to belittle people, so we can belong to a club and not think about it any more. Sorry but your own spirituality should never be boxed, no matter which route you take. Individual spirituality grows by the day just as God and the universe do...........and you can't write a book to last 2000 years based on heresay and then adopt the attitude "Oh...that'll do".

(Disclaimer: No offense intended to one and all. In special retreats like this we should speak freely and constructively for the betterment of all)

Love and blessings.

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 12:15

777

24th May 2010, 12:19

haha I posted exactly the same time as you about exactly the same thing Star^^.

Bring on the Synchros :-)

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 13:09

haha I posted exactly the same time as you about exactly the same thing Star^^.

Bring on the Synchros :-)

Awesome 777 :wave:

RedeZra

24th May 2010, 16:06

Jesus is a greek name, not a jewish name. Simple logic indicates that there could not have been a person with that name in Caldea at the time that is indicated.

that's right His mom most likely named Him Yeshua or Yehoshua

which was transliterated into Iesous in Greek and Jesus in English

so to say that Jesus is a Greek name is as wrong as to say it is a Hebrew name

Jesus is the English name for Yeshua or Yehoshua which might mean

" shout to God when in need of help "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

there is a massive effort to diminish Jesus and to remove religion

so you will find heaps of informations that concur with your preconceived notions

about this and that

you have to employ critique common sense and discernment too

and not only look for stuff that confirms your conceptual believes

there are so many testimonies miracles and visions connected with Jesus

which you simply cannot brush under the carpet and hope to go away

at the end of the day seeing is believing and experience is knowing

those that have no experience in the power of the Name of Jesus

are simply barking at the moon

kriya

24th May 2010, 16:32

Moxie

24th May 2010, 16:40

I'm a former hippy myself and can see clearly what happened. First, the advent of readily available birth control which could be had at free clinics without parental consent (in California where I lived at the time). Co-mix that with pop music trends w/greats like the Beatles, Stones... co-mix the drug scene, every one was at least "dabbling".... I do not believe all these things were "accidents", I think they were purposely introduced. Believe me, there are people in high places that are paid large sums of money to steer society, it's called social engineering.

All of these factors arising at a time when the largest body, the babyboomers, were in their teens.
The VietNam war happening, racial riots... all within a fixed society plan based on the debt monetary system.

We wanted answers, we wanted to make a difference all before the advent of the internet. We wanted no part of what we deemed was wrong, so we withdrew, got stoned (expanded our minds) & had a lot of sex. Then there's marriage, kids, getting a job (women working, more taxes right).
We had to survive, we didn't have many choices but to enter they system.

And we here in America were raised in a Christian society and I don't care if you are or are not a christian, your mind was infiltrated with certain concepts like the human being is flawed in his makeup, a "bad" person.

If you are like me, you never stopped asking WTF is going on? I was even "saved" when I was 18 or 19... had a profound spiritual experience which my cohorts tried to tell me was Christ saving me. All I knew was I had a powerful experience and quickly realized it was a universal experience available to anyone and it had nothing to do with religion.

I've read all the books that anyone can mention in the thread about your favorits books that made an impact. And it was because of the literature available (mind you, publishers Choose which books to release, it's no accident there either, just like the news..... it was eventually evident to me that there were some very powerful people making some very powerful decisions and directing my life's experiences, I bought them, I gave them my permission to continue. Hey I also bought junk food, gave them permission to continue, it goes on and on.

Then came the OOBE's, the lucid dreams, the Monroe Institute binaural beats, deep research into the origin of religion, modern medicine, you name it, it was going on in my life, all sorts of unusual experiences and at that time you just did not talk about it. The pattern was discerned, pick any subject, they are all hijacked.

Now that the internet has been in my life since '98 (I was a bit late getting started), the whole world has exploded with readily available information, which soon and recently in the past two years I've questioned why this has come into being, the internet. I do not think that was an accident either, I think the technology has been there far longer... in other words I do buy into the influences we have from 4th dimension (and my definition is that of Bronte Baxter, that invisible realm of influence, the spirit world that feeds upon "loosh" energy).

When I chanced upon Bronte's website a couple yrs ago, I was incredibly excited to read words that describe my whole take on this life. In particular, and this gets to the meat for me:

Who IS this God that everyone talks about?

I accept that mind control is REAL, the evidence is overwhelming, which means that I'm infected too, we all are... and it's my main focus, questioning mind memes like "ego" and "christ consciousness" and "oneness". I'm right there with Bronte.

So I think the New Age w/all its jargon was a creation by the tptw and it's a trap just like channeling is (including TheCourseInMiracles)... there is always this surrendering of your individuation to Something other than the interior world, where I know that we have a connection, this "you" is illusory they say...

I ask you: who is the God that created Death, created you only to die, that demands blood sacrifice (war/wafer&wine.. who ARE you connected with? Who is the God that created Life that must feed on other Life in order to live? Bronte blew me right out of the water for voicing my main questions out loud... I wept, bingo!

It's clear to me that the human race has been hijacked, modified and misdirected far more deeply than anyone cares to even want to look at.

I applaud those that have investigated the truth about this Jesus person, we are, I think, one in a million... granted I will "give it to ya" the term Kryst Consciousness, the understanding of that but this thread is about Infiltration... New Age and it's doesn't feel good when you find yourself duped, nope, but I welcome being wrong when it bumps me up a notch into clarity.... I'm still clearing out the muck.

Sorry this was so lengthy but I hope that everyone checks out Bronte's website.

777

24th May 2010, 16:41

Oh, my good God......yet again the notion that Jesus wasn't real. Well I've seen him in visions with my very own mind, and he looked pretty real to me. Oh, sorry, its the illuminati (who are clearly omniscient) because apparently they can induce mystical experiences in the 'half depressed' a la the OP.

I'm sorry for being so sarcastic. But the systematic destruction of religion (I know its been corrupted) and the denial of Jesus IS THE ILLUMINATI

Going to meditate cos I need to calm down.

Love,

Kriya

I know what you mean. But I would venture that the "fake" construct of Christianity, (ie it's bible, it's clergy and it's church bodies) are Illuminati too. Population control based on the words of men, like every other structure they've used through the ages, the repetition is astounding and very real to see.

Where I agree is the life of Jesus was very real and I believe in him fully.......just not the lies and ficticious repeated story man has invented around him.

I know he's real, I sense him, I talk to him. But I need no book or clergyman to do that for me.

Peace, Love and Blessing.

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 17:03

Very well said Moxie - I applaud your post.

Moxie

24th May 2010, 17:15

Thank you Horizon..... and theDot, your post #35 was hilarious!

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 17:45

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread, it helps all of us to know where we stand and others that may search for answers. Mind control is real and it takes courage to raise above mainstream to accept that each of us are equal to each other and does not matter what we believe. At the end of the road, if we do not transcend matter and die as we have been told we will, each one of us will find him/herself alone, with only what we are as luggage, let that luggage be fill with precious truth of moments of knowing and not of doctrines invented with a hidden agenda

:grouphug:

frank samuel

24th May 2010, 17:51

Moxie I applaud your post, mind control has been a part of our upbringing through the many indoctrinations since before our birth , you can call it what you want , new age, old age, religion , science, politics, philosophy, on and on. To get out of the box the first thing we all have to know is that we are all in the box no matter what you label it. By learning to trust your inner selves you begin to do away with all these concepts of reality that you have no control over and focus on creating your own life experience. You are very right in saying that this experience that connects you to the Universal force or Energy is available for free without the need for anything , just tune in. Now if this is also mind control then count me in. Somewhere in our lives we have to find meaning and purpose amid the perceived chaos, if this brings you peace, tranquility and Joy more power to you. All in all no one has a grasp of 100% truth, if anyone think they do I really worry about you. To end this post I will add that for me the origin of all things is just love and as the old saying goes, " love is blind".

Many many blessings to all...:wub:

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 18:08

stardustaquarion

24th May 2010, 18:38

that's right His mom most likely named Him Yeshua or Yehoshua

which was transliterated into Iesous in Greek and Jesus in English

so to say that Jesus is a Greek name is as wrong as to say it is a Hebrew name

Jesus is the English name for Yeshua or Yehoshua which might mean

" shout to God when in need of help "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

there is a massive effort to diminish Jesus and to remove religion

so you will find heaps of informations that concur with your preconceived notions

about this and that

you have to employ critique common sense and discernment too

and not only look for stuff that confirms your conceptual believes

there are so many testimonies miracles and visions connected with Jesus

which you simply cannot brush under the carpet and hope to go away

at the end of the day seeing is believing and experience is knowing

those that have no experience in the power of the Name of Jesus

are simply barking at the moon

You are right, Jesus is english and Iesus Greek I somehow mixed the names involuntarily

My point is, why we have an english name instead of the original name the man had? Because the church does not want us to search the roman records of that time, why?

It is very unusual to change the name of people and in the case of Jesus, why is it that no records whatsoever exists. The romans kept records of everything, every person that was executed, every grain or wheat. Why there are no records of his family? We know he apparently had a family and brothers too....if one is to believe the stories in the Bible. Now how is it possible that we have such detailed accounts from the Sumerians seven thousand years BC and we don't have any records whatsoever about Jesus or his family?

I respect your faith, but faith is no facts and I am sure that if there were such fact the church will have shown them to the masses already

Nevertheless I do accept that there is such thing as cosmic Kryst which is a estate of consciousness that we all can aspire to achieve

RedeZra

24th May 2010, 19:57

Ok I have found this video that puts forth a question that I have

always wanted answered, I know it could be considered off topic but it isn't since so many have

brought the matter forth

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why God sacrificed Himself to appease Himself

it's impossible to sacrifice God for He is incorporeal

how can one kill Pure consciousness

what was sacrificed was the sinless body of Jesus

what was suffering was the incorrupt mind of Jesus

what was restored was the Pure consciousness of Jesus

there is a Law and there is a Balance measuring the vices and the virtues

in every heart in every nation and in the whole world

Jesus was God's plan to raise and redeem mankind back to Himself

for the weight of wickedness was a burden on the Balance

so God sent forth a portion of Himself into the womb of Mary

and Jesus was born with an intimate relationship with God

an awareness - which all of us can achive - but He was born with it

Jesus was a Noble example for mankind but He also straightened the Balance of good and evil in the world as a favor for all of us - in that sense He was the Great sufferer and an Ideal for the
few victim souls after Him - that suffers in and for the world to tip the Balance towards the good

God redeems the world when evil and wrong is about to eclipse what is good and right

for there is a Law and there is a Balance to measure the virtues and the vices

God withdrew Himself from Jesus awarness on the cross and crushed Him with all the wickedness of the world and for 3 hours darkness came over the whole land

at 3 pm it was done the sun came back and Jesus regained the awarness of God

the Balance of the world was restored that day and every heart is redeemed

one just have to dare to believe in Him

after 3 days Jesus returned in Spirit to His body in the tomb

talked to the Apostles to strenghten their faith and promised them an awareness of the Pure consciousness

so they could commune with God for themselves and work miracles as easy as He did
for the conversion of the souls and the betterment of mankind

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 20:17

why God sacrificed Himself to appease Himself

it's impossible to sacrifice God for He is incorporeal

how can one kill Pure consciousness

what was sacrificed was the sinless body of Jesus

what was suffering was the incorrupt mind of Jesus

what was restored was the Pure consciousness of Jesus

there is a Law and there is a Balance measuring the vices and the virtues

in every heart in every nation and in the whole world

Jesus was God's plan to raise and redeem mankind back to Himself

for the weight of wickedness was a burden on the Balance

so God sent forth a portion of Himself into the womb of Mary

and Jesus was born with an intimate relationship with God

an awareness - which all of us can achive - but He was born with it

Jesus was a Noble example for mankind but He also straightened the Balance of good and evil in the world as a favor for all of us - in that sense He was the Great sufferer and an Ideal for the
few victim souls after Him - that suffers in and for the world to tip the Balance towards the good

God redeems the world when evil and wrong is about to eclipse what is good and right

for there is a Law and there is a Balance to measure the virtues and the vices

God withdrew Himself from Jesus awarness on the cross and crushed Him with all the wickedness of
the world and for 3 hours darkness came over the whole land

at 3 pm it was done the sun came back and Jesus regained the awarness of God

the Balance of the world was restored that day and every heart is redeemed

one just have to dare to believe in Him

after 3 days Jesus returned in Spirit to His body in the tomb

talked to the Apostles to strenghten their faith and promised them an awareness of the Pure consciousness

so they could commune with God for themselves and work miracles as easy as He did
for the conversion of the souls and the betterment of mankind

Hi RedZ - I have a question: would you say that the cross of Christ is a Balance scale - so to speak - to bring and restore Balance to the creation - on all levels?
Would this then be the new creation - a golden age of Balance - a time of "Pure consciousness" where all mankind can " commune with God for themselves and work miracles as easy as He did ... and the betterment of mankind"?

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 20:17

double post!!!

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 20:45

I was wondering if any of you have read the book Oneness by rasha? This book came to me in '08 and had some powerful things to say to me at that time. This is "channeled" material, and I do not know much about the author.

I have always wondered how deeply profound insights that we read could be so in touch with the path one finds themselves on, how can these thoughts be so resonating with ones being? I guess it could be done through deep psychological understanding of the human mind and emotions, and then using this knowledge to "mind control" the population at large? I suppose every good lie has some truth to the front-end of its agenda - and this makes infiltration a good possibility in every venue out there - even here in this forum.

Moxie

24th May 2010, 20:49

Stardust? I've asked that simple question about the name many times, but for some reason, no one "gets it"? A perfect example of mind control.
If someone goes down in history, their name does NOT change, especially the pronunciation of God's only begotten son. Certainly no "J " sound!! The letter J came into existence way way after the Y sound or the Eye sound. In the dictionary, look how few pages are in the J compared to other letters. Maybe 15 pages out of 2000.

But then people resort to: the name doesn't matter? It's always some excuse.

It doesn't matter to me if he did or didn't exist... but he wasn't crucified & raised from literal death, you know why? Because Love doesn't demonstrate nor teach death & blood sacrifice, that sounds demonic to me...nor does Love (God) sacrifice his Only begotten Son in such a display. nor does Love teach that you are a sinner (in the common understanding of that, to me sin equates to ignorance<that makes sense) & need saving, consequences are already set up. Think about it! It's a sick story when taken literally & preys on fear what will happen should you not believe! Mythology used to be highly valued for it's metaphors and allegory to teach spiritual principles, but now people say things like "you mean it's not true?" lolol......

If Jesus did exist, the truth about it is not told... the only source that tells what makes some sense is coming from Asha Deane, the real Yeshua taught ascension science which was removed from any texts. And I have read all her books, have you?

There aren't even any accounts of the 40-some-odd historians that were living at the purported time of "Jesus" that wrote anything about him, but they wrote about other things going on at the time. It's myth, sun-god rehash. Ever read The 17 Crucified Saviours. Ever read Acharya's work... that woman has spent her entire life in scholarly research and presents her findings of the truth and believe me, she would publish the opposite if it were true! I spent alot of time in email exchange w/her & her forum.

I tell you, I've read reviews from deeply devout believers, priests.nuns, spent yrs in monasteries that read Acharya's work and had to admit they had been duped. And let me tell you, it devastated them to their CORE, but because they were authentic Truth seekers (though duped, haven't we all been), they had to let go of the storyline that is fed via the Jesus story. That's the trouble with religions.... once you take the avenue of mediator away, people are clueless who or how to worship.... hopefully they then realize it's not about worship either unless you want to feed the gods controlling you.

Many so-called "awake" people have no understanding or acceptance that mind control and high technology exists to implant messages & visions.... much less entertain the idea that they are in fact affected by it. There's no telling what's downloaded into us when we sleep! We give no value to the 8 hrs we spend every day of our lives, sleeping not to mention our awake hours where we voluntary give our power away to a Belief.

The 4th dimension (invisible realm of influence, the fallen ones), those are the gods of this world. Better define who God is to You. Does "he" require that you come to "him" thru Jesus? That you worship "him"? That you sacrifice your Ego/Personality to "him", your Father?

New Age was a creation also, all have bits of truth entertwined.
My view of God is Love and only Love, empowerment not surrender to and worship of.

HORIZONS

24th May 2010, 21:47

Hi Moxie - I understand what you are saying, but in respect to your viewpoint, and in defense of those I know - the version and understanding of the Bible you presented is a very religious mainstream and external interpretation of the Bible. Throughout my years of searching for truth, I have been exposed to and have studied many viewpoints of christian thought and spiritual interpretation of Bible scripture. There are many more ways to interpret the story of Jesus and God than what the big religious dogs have to say. There is no substitute for spiritual revelation when seeking to understand the Bible. If the message of scripture (any scripture) was given in Spirit, then it must be interpreted in Spirit as well - even if the texts were changed, the spiritual message will remain. Also, I was thinking, if the TPTB of that day wanted someone removed from their registers of the time, or the story of history changed, it would have been a simple task to do. Anyone could be wiped out of history, or have history changed, with the mightiest sword of them all -- the pen. But when you look into the spiritual message - of any message - it is there that you will find the true intent of the words. Most of the objections people have to Bible interpretations can be explained in a very different way - a spiritual way.

~Peace

RedeZra

24th May 2010, 21:57

Hi RedZ - I have a question: would you say that the cross of Christ is a Balance scale - so to speak - to bring and restore Balance to the creation - on all levels?
Would this then be the new creation - a golden age of Balance - a time of "Pure consciousness" where all mankind can " commune with God for themselves and work miracles as easy as He did ... and the betterment of mankind"?

hi Horizons - what Jesus accomplished on the cross was to restore the Balance of good and evil in the world
so the cross can be seen as a symbol of this Balance

because there is an inherent corruption in physical nature

the weight of wickedness will in time sink the Scale

so God must intervene before evil eclipses good

this time He didn't flood the world but made a pure and perfect sacrifice for sinners and saints alike

not only to restore the Balance but to inspire mankind to do good

Jesus was awake and aware in this Pure consciousness which is God
but for 3 hours on the cross He was alone with the agony of the body and the suffering of the mind until He again regained Pure consciousness

now this Balance is disturbed yet again

evil is about to eclipse good

so God must intervene

how will He do it this time - destroy or restore - perhaps both

that's why every good act counts and no prayer goes to waste

they are all grains of good in both the Balance of the world and the heart

as Jesus says " if you love Me follow My commandments "

Beren

24th May 2010, 22:39

Pardon for long post below :o

1 Corinthians 2

1.When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2.For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4.My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5.so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Wisdom From the Spirit

6.We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7.No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8.None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9.However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"[b]— 10.but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11.For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12.We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13.This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[c]

14.The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15.The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?"[d] But we have the mind of Christ.

Now I hope the color works will do the job the same as I would speak it.

It`s all about spirit,one is from this world ,fallen world and it rulers -demons- and other spirit is of God which sheds true light.

Now New age stuff and all surrounding it ,is made by evil spirits. Cleverly falsifying truth and posing as spirits of God.

Like it or not EVERYTHING is connected.
We can not talk of any of the mind control programs and not to mention demon influence.
Why?
Because at the end of the day when you do a deep search, you find clear traces of demon fingers inside it.

So I ask all of you who doubt Jesus Christ, whom you will turn when you realize that all you `ve been fighting is actually spiritual force that is extremely evil?
How can you beat that evil spirit?

Can you shot it with a gun?
Can you meditate to cast it away in its presence?
Can you just say -go away- when it steps on your throat?
Can your mind stay sane when spirit send strong delusion into your mind so you think you` ve been attacked by monsters?
Can you see through its dark when it`s there in front of you?

????

Nothing really helps but power of God.

All other is just another illusion.
Some may say that they casted the spirit away with some mantra or meditation or open chakra or whatever -you name it.

And true ,spirit walks away smiling in your face with words: "cool, I`m off because you are still under MY control and now you`re not even aware of that!"

"Keep on doing your stuff thinking you`re free but you`re MINE ! "

In fight with these guys (evil spirits) there is no safe ground when you don`t have real weapon against. They are spirits -they are not limited in this physicality.
Only God`s spirit is the weapon.

But finally here is the thing, last resort of evil spirits is actual show up in front of you and harassment. They use every possible deception first and level upon level they impose on people so that all will be lost in the maze of deception.

First step out of the maze is truth about God and Jesus and Evil and Good.

But hey, what will you do when you find out the truth- it`s all up to you.

You`re free to believe what you wish about Jesus Christ. At the end we will all stand before Creator.
No excuses.

Like it or not.

lightblue

24th May 2010, 23:24

stardust and everyone
don't send me off to tango's, this does belong here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUlgN__Jrxk&feature=relatedl

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 00:47

My point is, why we have an english name instead of the original name the man had? Because the church does not want us to search the roman records of that time, why?

If someone goes down in history, their name does NOT change, especially the pronunciation of God's only begotten son. Certainly no "J " sound!! The letter J came into existence way way after the Y sound or the Eye sound.

perhaps with a stroke of genius or inspiration Jesus was made international and not only for the Jews

Yeshua would be too Jewish too stigmatic for Jesus universal message and appeal

after all He is not really just a Jew

Rome has been sacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome) a number of times so any complete records are not likely

the socalled Vatican Secret Archives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Secret_Archives) were opened to researchers in 1881 and now more than a thousand examine its documents each year

greybeard

25th May 2010, 07:08

Lets just say ( I dont believe this) but lets just say there was no historical Jesus but there was a Christ Consciousness which brought about the first two commandments (if these are followed you dont need the rest)
Lets also say that the powers that be were threatened greatly by the essence of these teaching that they were frightened of loosing control over the masses.
If this was the case would they not do everything they could to discredit the followers of the teaching therefore devaluing the teaching.

The history of the church is bloody but so was the culture of the time it was not following the two commandments.

The thread is about infiltration of the New age movement it should be about infiltration of this age by the Godless.

Forget religion with its murky past but dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
If the essence of the teaching of Christ consciousness is devalued we face terrible consequences.

Well meaning people dont realize that they are playing into the hands of the illuminati - powers that be,-lower astral by devaluing Jesus, for when they do its the thin end of the wedge.

In America now and elsewhere, there is a cult of politically correct who in case of offending " religious minorities" have degraded and down graded Christmas day till it has no spiritual significance.

The lower astral set out to achieve a godless society and they are winning because bit by bit through many sources, new age books, politicians, media, they take out the message of Christ consciousness.
They are very clever they brain wash you in very subtle ways.
They cast doubt on there ever being a Jesus.
So why were so many early true Christian slaughtered if there had not been a Christ to inspire them to even give up their lives for that belief?

We see the effects of a godless society -- respect for teachers nurse doctors firemen gone.
Respect for different opinions gone.
Respect for others gone.

My belief is different from standard Christian belief.
I dont believe a God of Love sacrificed His son (we are all sons and daughters)
I do believe that God specifically sent Jesus to show the way, the same way that many previous teachers had pointed to.
Jesus had to start as a normal human with normal temptations and weaknesses, he had to transcend them to become the Christ (enlightened)
God did not send Jesus to be crucified that was down to the will of the people.
On the cross Jesus said "God forgive them for they know not what they do". He did not, I repeat did not, in anyway blame God for his crucification.
My belief is that through freewill the people chose to crucify Jesus.
When Christ said "I am the way" I believe he meant, find the "I am" within. God defined himself by saying "I am that I am"
Find God within, thats enlightenment.
In other words Christ clearly pointed to Christ consciousness as being the way.
So please, if you will. speak against the atrocities committed by so called religious people but please please realize fully, if you down grade Jesus and therefore the teachings of love and forgiveness, you greatly weaken society.

Im sure that every contributor to this thread has much love and a good heart but please see that any rebuttal of Jesus historical or otherwise plays right into the hands of the infiltrators who would ultimately lead you away from all that is good loving and kind-- would lead you away from God.

Chris

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 11:45

perhaps with a stroke of genius or inspiration Jesus was made international and not only for the Jews

Yeshua would be too Jewish too stigmatic for Jesus universal message and appeal

after all He is not really just a Jew

Rome has been sacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome) a number of times so any complete records are not likely

the socalled Vatican Secret Archives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Secret_Archives) were opened to researchers in 1881 and now more than a thousand examine its documents each year

Found this here http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

Yeshua is the original Aramaic proper name for Jesus the Nazarene, who lived from about 6 B.C.E. to 27 C.E. (A.D.) The word "Jesus" is actually a mis-transliteration of a Greek mis-transliteration. The Emperor Constatine even mistook Jesus for Apollo, the son of the Greek god Zeus. In Hebrew Yeshua means Salvation while the name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.

It is most proper to call Him Yeshua. It was indeed his proper name, given to him by his parents, and only in Hebrew does this name have any meaning. In Hebrew Yeshua means both "Salvation," and the concatenated form of Yahoshua, is "Lord who is Salvation." The name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.

There are many Yeshuas that we read about in Biblical text and many are confused with the Yeshua who would later become the "Christ". The name Yeshua appears 29 times in the Tanach. Yehoshua (Joshua) of Nun is called Yeshua in Nechemyah (Nehemiah) 8:17. Yeshua is the name of the Cohain HaGadol (the high priest) in the time of Zerubavel in Ezra 3:2. It is the name of a Levite under King Hizkiyah (Hezekiah) in 2 Chronicles 31:15. There is even a city called Yeshua in the negev of Yehudah in Nechemyah11:26. Yeshua is also a shortened version of the word Yehoshua much like Bill is for William.

and another one

In a recent Messianic magazine there appeared an article that purported to address the question,"Is the name "Jesus" pagan?" The article was clearly a defense of the use of the name "Jesus", in spite of that author's admission that this is not the "original" name (birth name) given to the Messiah (by his Jewish mother, Miryam). The article leaves the reader with the notion that Jesus is just as valid, if not more valid, than Y'shua1 when referring to the Messiah. And it arrives at this deduction by the most careless etymology and stunted logic, ignoring the weightier matters of the issue. The "issue" raised in this article is a prize-winning deception, designed to decoy the unwary from the real issue of the word "Jesus".

Early in the article, the author demonstrated the difficulty of transliterating from Hebrew to Greek and the ease of transliterating from Hebrew to English. A detailed letter-by-letter (from the Hebrew aleph-bet to the Greek alphabet) "transliteration" of the name, Y'shua to the Greek name, Iesous was brought forth as evidence. Because there are no equivalent sounds of many of the letters, this so called "transliteration" becomes in reality a translation. There is so little assonance between "Y'shua" and "Eeaysooce" that calling this a transliteration is an offense to even the most debased scholarship. There is no way to transliterate this name between these two languages! The best that can be done is to translate, which is what was done in the Septuagint by its Hebrew translators.

The name Septuagint, is late-Latin (the ecclesiastical tongue of the Roman Corporate Church) from septem + ginta which hints at the 70 (approximately) translators who produced the Greek version of the Tanakh (the "Old" Testament). A study of the etymology of the word "Jesus", in even as mundane a source as the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reveals that this name does not come directly from the Greek "Iesous", but derives from the early-Latin "Iesu", the "I" pronounced initially as a "Y" producing Yay-soo. The "I" in the middle-ages was differentiated into the "I' and the "J" in our Latin alphabet used for the English language. Thus, in late-Latin, the Iesou (Yaysoo) became Jesu (Jaysoo) which became Jesus in the English tongue. This relationship in the etymology is omitted by the author in his "apologetics".

Regardless, the word Jesus has no direct ancestry from the Greek Iesous, as is implied by the author, but at best, it derives from the late-Latin Jesu , a fact completely missing in the cited article. However, all of this etymology, even with the missing link provided above, is a decoy to distract our attention from the real problem with this word "Jesus."

We have never used the argument that Jesus is somehow a compound of Gee-Zeus (Zeus being the chief "god" of the Greek Pantheon) although there is certainly an extreme degree of assonance (which is the core of the art of transliteration) with the "Jesus" word. We have never pursued that possibility to any extent, since it is totally irrelevant. The only relevant issue is: What was/is the Messiah's name given him by his mother, Miryam, in accordance with the angelic messenger's revelation to her?

Since the author of the subject article didn't have any problems with the name Y'shua being the Messiah's "original" name, why not look firstly at what is NOT the issue here? The issue is NOT, " whether the word Jesus is pagan!" The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Y'shua into Greek! The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Greek Iesous into Latin! The issue is NOT even how to "transliterate" the Latin Jesu into English! The issue IS how to transliterate the real name, Y'shua, from the Hebrew, into English. We certainly don't need to go through Greek into Latin and then from Latin into English. Why would anyone want to take such a circuitous route, unless he's trying to "prove" the validity of the erroneousness, "Jesus?"

To transliterate the Hebrew Y'shua to English, we merely go to Y'shua1. Thus his name is pronounced Y'shua both in Hebrew and in English - perfect transliteration. What could be simpler? Whether Jesus is a pagan name isn't what matters! What matters is the fact that Jesus was never the name of the Messiah of YHWH, whose story is recorded in the new testament!

Proper names are not translated from one language to another, if it is possible to transliterate. If that is impossible, to accurately transliterate a proper name (as is the case in transliterating from Hebrew to Greek), then it is still possible to teach them how to correctly pronounce the name of the Messiah; similar to the way that English speaking people would learn how to correctly pronounce the Spanish word "Chihuahua" or the French word "resume"). They need someone who knows the correct pronunciation to teach them.

from http://yahushua.net/pagan_name.htm

Please do not get me wrong, but I do think and feel that there is a hidden agenda which we have not been told. Words have enormous power, they are spells, scalar waves that can change reality. I know that from my own experience. I find it extrange

I do agree with Greybear about Kryst consciousness and that following the laws of the Cosmos are the best road ahead as they are intemporal and do not pertain to any church

:wave:

There are 7 other Yeshuas (Jesuses) in the Brit Chadashah. There is Elymas bar Yeshua in Acts 13:6. There is an ancestor of Yeshua HaMashiach: the son of Eliezar, the father of Er in Luke 3:29. In Rav Shaul's letter to the Colossians in chapter 4, verse 11, there is a Justus called Yeshua a fellow worker of Shaul. Josephus, the famous Jewish historian mentions 20 different Yeshuas (Jesuses), 10 of which are contemporary with Yeshua HaMashiach. All together, at least 50 Yeshuas from his time plus about 9 in the Tanach have been revealed from Biblical text and other literary sources.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

perhaps with a stroke of genius or inspiration Jesus was made international and not only for the Jews

Yeshua would be too Jewish too stigmatic for Jesus universal message and appeal

after all He is not really just a Jew

Rome has been sacked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome) a number of times so any complete records are not likely

the socalled Vatican Secret Archives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Secret_Archives) were opened to researchers in 1881 and now more than a thousand examine its documents each year

Found this here http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm

Yeshua is the original Aramaic proper name for Jesus the Nazarene, who lived from about 6 B.C.E. to 27 C.E. (A.D.) The word "Jesus" is actually a mis-transliteration of a Greek mis-transliteration. The Emperor Constatine even mistook Jesus for Apollo, the son of the Greek god Zeus. In Hebrew Yeshua means Salvation while the name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.

It is most proper to call Him Yeshua. It was indeed his proper name, given to him by his parents, and only in Hebrew does this name have any meaning. In Hebrew Yeshua means both "Salvation," and the concatenated form of Yahoshua, is "Lord who is Salvation." The name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.

There are many Yeshuas that we read about in Biblical text and many are confused with the Yeshua who would later become the "Christ". The name Yeshua appears 29 times in the Tanach. Yehoshua (Joshua) of Nun is called Yeshua in Nechemyah (Nehemiah) 8:17. Yeshua is the name of the Cohain HaGadol (the high priest) in the time of Zerubavel in Ezra 3:2. It is the name of a Levite under King Hizkiyah (Hezekiah) in 2 Chronicles 31:15. There is even a city called Yeshua in the negev of Yehudah in Nechemyah11:26. Yeshua is also a shortened version of the word Yehoshua much like Bill is for William.

and another one

In a recent Messianic magazine there appeared an article that purported to address the question,"Is the name "Jesus" pagan?" The article was clearly a defense of the use of the name "Jesus", in spite of that author's admission that this is not the "original" name (birth name) given to the Messiah (by his Jewish mother, Miryam). The article leaves the reader with the notion that Jesus is just as valid, if not more valid, than Y'shua1 when referring to the Messiah. And it arrives at this deduction by the most careless etymology and stunted logic, ignoring the weightier matters of the issue. The "issue" raised in this article is a prize-winning deception, designed to decoy the unwary from the real issue of the word "Jesus".

Early in the article, the author demonstrated the difficulty of transliterating from Hebrew to Greek and the ease of transliterating from Hebrew to English. A detailed letter-by-letter (from the Hebrew aleph-bet to the Greek alphabet) "transliteration" of the name, Y'shua to the Greek name, Iesous was brought forth as evidence. Because there are no equivalent sounds of many of the letters, this so called "transliteration" becomes in reality a translation. There is so little assonance between "Y'shua" and "Eeaysooce" that calling this a transliteration is an offense to even the most debased scholarship. There is no way to transliterate this name between these two languages! The best that can be done is to translate, which is what was done in the Septuagint by its Hebrew translators.

The name Septuagint, is late-Latin (the ecclesiastical tongue of the Roman Corporate Church) from septem + ginta which hints at the 70 (approximately) translators who produced the Greek version of the Tanakh (the "Old" Testament). A study of the etymology of the word "Jesus", in even as mundane a source as the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reveals that this name does not come directly from the Greek "Iesous", but derives from the early-Latin "Iesu", the "I" pronounced initially as a "Y" producing Yay-soo. The "I" in the middle-ages was differentiated into the "I' and the "J" in our Latin alphabet used for the English language. Thus, in late-Latin, the Iesou (Yaysoo) became Jesu (Jaysoo) which became Jesus in the English tongue. This relationship in the etymology is omitted by the author in his "apologetics".

Regardless, the word Jesus has no direct ancestry from the Greek Iesous, as is implied by the author, but at best, it derives from the late-Latin Jesu , a fact completely missing in the cited article. However, all of this etymology, even with the missing link provided above, is a decoy to distract our attention from the real problem with this word "Jesus."

We have never used the argument that Jesus is somehow a compound of Gee-Zeus (Zeus being the chief "god" of the Greek Pantheon) although there is certainly an extreme degree of assonance (which is the core of the art of transliteration) with the "Jesus" word. We have never pursued that possibility to any extent, since it is totally irrelevant. The only relevant issue is: What was/is the Messiah's name given him by his mother, Miryam, in accordance with the angelic messenger's revelation to her?

Since the author of the subject article didn't have any problems with the name Y'shua being the Messiah's "original" name, why not look firstly at what is NOT the issue here? The issue is NOT, " whether the word Jesus is pagan!" The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Y'shua into Greek! The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Greek Iesous into Latin! The issue is NOT even how to "transliterate" the Latin Jesu into English! The issue IS how to transliterate the real name, Y'shua, from the Hebrew, into English. We certainly don't need to go through Greek into Latin and then from Latin into English. Why would anyone want to take such a circuitous route, unless he's trying to "prove" the validity of the erroneousness, "Jesus?"

To transliterate the Hebrew Y'shua to English, we merely go to Y'shua1. Thus his name is pronounced Y'shua both in Hebrew and in English - perfect transliteration. What could be simpler? Whether Jesus is a pagan name isn't what matters! What matters is the fact that Jesus was never the name of the Messiah of YHWH, whose story is recorded in the new testament!

Proper names are not translated from one language to another, if it is possible to transliterate. If that is impossible, to accurately transliterate a proper name (as is the case in transliterating from Hebrew to Greek), then it is still possible to teach them how to correctly pronounce the name of the Messiah; similar to the way that English speaking people would learn how to correctly pronounce the Spanish word "Chihuahua" or the French word "resume"). They need someone who knows the correct pronunciation to teach them.

from http://yahushua.net/pagan_name.htm

Please do not get me wrong, but I do think and feel that there is a hidden agenda which we have not been told. Words have enormous power, they are spells, scalar waves that can change reality. I know that from my own experience. I find it strange

I do agree with Greybear about Kryst consciousness and that following the laws of the Cosmos are the best road ahead as they are intemporal and do not pertain to any church

:wave:

There are 7 other Yeshuas (Jesuses) in the Brit Chadashah. There is Elymas bar Yeshua in Acts 13:6. There is an ancestor of Yeshua HaMashiach: the son of Eliezar, the father of Er in Luke 3:29. In Rav Shaul's letter to the Colossians in chapter 4, verse 11, there is a Justus called Yeshua a fellow worker of Shaul. Josephus, the famous Jewish historian mentions 20 different Yeshuas (Jesuses), 10 of which are contemporary with Yeshua HaMashiach. All together, at least 50 Yeshuas from his time plus about 9 in the Tanach have been revealed from Biblical text and other literary sources.

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 12:21

Thank you Moxi for your post #97 I agree with you. I know I will methaforically get crucified for this but some years ago when I was studiying with the gnostics I read that Jesus stands for Zeus and it was a way to incorporate the Roman paganism into the watered down Krystian texts. It appears that Costantine had a hand on that. When one refers to the old history there is no logic when a blood thirsty man like Costantine suddenly changes his habits for no gain. We know all the rulers are all descendants of the same families and they do not change their habits for "free"

I think that a very evolved being with the name Yeshua or Yesheua (can not remember the exact spelling!) did lived with the Essenes and also went to Egypt and there are some vague records of that. He was not crucified as you say. The killing of the first son is a Marduke tradition that is still performed this days with the consent of the families.

I think the man on the video is right and the problem we have with some books is that they took some truth that resonate with our cellular memory and inserted much deception but the bits of truth keep us hooked, otherwise those books will have fallen out of favour.

I am not a schoolar but I know there are many things that do not add up and I have been told that we need a key to understand the true meaning

Now, my other question when I was in school is why if we were created as equal to god we have to workship it? It does not add up...In my personal oppinion there is a lot of manipulation to a end and the churches have used force, murder and extortion to get their way to name few of the horrendous crimes they have commited against humanity. Not very holy at all

Celine

25th May 2010, 13:04

You are a creator.

Simple answer..complex perspective IMO.

Creating the need to worship, is a tool for control.

They want you to forget who you are.

thedot

25th May 2010, 13:39

Every movie, painting, song, speech, narration, article, book - has two messages: a message sent and a message received. I can be sure only of one of them. I can try to guess what message the author intended to send, but I can never be sure I get it right. Even worse: I can never get it absolutely right. All I can be sure of is the message received by me, and me only. I can delude myself thinking, "Wow, I got it right!" But that'd be an illusion - what makes sense to me may not make sense at all to somebody else, and vice versa, leaving alone the nuances.

This fully applies to the Bible. We think we're discussing the message sent by its authors, but - no, not at all! All that we're doing is exchanging the messages received by everyone of us. They can be similar but never the same. And they definitely have nothing to do with the "outgoing message", none of them. We can agree between us upon the "true" meaning of the message, but that'd be nothing more than the average of subjective opinions of the persons participated in the "vote".

"Subjective opinion" is a funny expression - it supposes the existence of an "objective opinion", which is nonsense. This discussion, as all the previous ones, doesn't lead to any "conclusion", only to an exhaustion of participants. And that's exactly what the Illuminati stooges, Christian fanatics, want - to steal as much time as possible from as many otherwise freethinking people as possible!

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 14:06

the Age of Reason - Europe's Enlightment

is nothing but an 18th century plot by the Godless to take over the world

we in the western world have been born into a society that for at least 250 years has worked systematically to seperate the State from the Church and then strip the Church for any political power whatsoever and at last start substitute pseudo religions in an attempt to empty the Church

it's a battle of believes

instigated by the State to eradicate the Church

it's the State we have to worry about

the Church has no say in the politics of the western world

this is the Age of Reason - so why all the schemes

you say it is Enlightment but it sure seems like Illuminati

thedot

25th May 2010, 14:16

... the Church has no say in the politics of the western world ...

A year ago a guy from the CFR claimed that the "CFR has no official power" :)

RedeZra, I don't think you are a paid agent. But it's even worse if you're doing it for free.

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 14:23

A year ago a guy from the CFR claimed that the "CFR has no official power" :)

RedeZra, I don't think you are a paid agent. But it's even worse if you're doing it for free.

it's not the Church - it is the CFR - and no they are not the same - look it up lol

thedot

25th May 2010, 14:26

It's funny what the "Thread Information" line shows about RedeZra and Beren tactics: every time one is browsing a thread, he's immediately joined by the other! "United we stand"? :)

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 14:29

It's funny what the "Thread Information" line shows about RedeZra and Beren tactics: every time one is browsing a thread, he's immediately joined by the other! "United we stand"? :)

yes we are out to get you lol

thedot

25th May 2010, 14:35

Too late to get me, RedeZra :) More sad is that everybody doesn't recognize in you and Beren infiltrated agents. I have to admit, though, that you have successfully turned this thread away from its original topic.

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 15:00

truthseekerdan

25th May 2010, 15:09

When Christ said "I am the way" I believe he meant, find the "I am" within. God defined himself by saying "I am that I am"
Find God within, thats enlightenment.
In other words Christ clearly pointed to Christ consciousness as being the way.
So please, if you will. speak against the atrocities committed by so called religious people but please please realize fully, if you down grade Jesus and therefore the teachings of love and forgiveness, you greatly weaken society.

Im sure that every contributor to this thread has much love and a good heart but please see that any rebuttal of Jesus historical or otherwise plays right into the hands of the infiltrators who would ultimately lead you away from all that is good loving and kind-- would lead you away from God.

Chris

Thank you Chris for clarifying some things. (Matthew 13:9) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%2013:9&version=CEV)
I totally agree with you on this, brother. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thess.%205:19-22&version=CEV)

http://www.postersforthesoul.com/images/pg_poster1.jpg

With Love & respect, ~ Dan ~ :wub:

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 15:33

More sad is that everybody doesn't recognize in you and Beren infiltrated agents.

I don't know about Beren lol but I doubt that he is a paid agent of Christ or CIA or something

and neither am I - but if you believe that - it shows to me at least - that you are not good in discerning fiction from facts

as for me turning this thread away from its original topic

I usually do that when I read BS about Jesus did not exist or the Bible is Illuminati propaganda and all blame to the Church

you just have to stop writing BS like that - so I don't have to respond to it

Organized religion is the same world over, it matters not the denomination. Power makes people abuse their fellow humans and corrupts so the only solution is no organized religion, to follow our own spirit deep within because that way we can not be abused or mind controled

the problem is

not the Church not the State not the Jews not the Masons not the Jesuits
not the CIA not the CFR not this and not that not etc etc

it is you and I and each one of us

by the choices we make day by day

which is also the solution

frank samuel

25th May 2010, 15:34

In all fairness as a young man studying to become a man of the cloth following in the footsteps of many of my family members. The Bible and the message stood as the ideal, yet for many man and woman of the cloth there seem to be two extreme realities. My mom for example was almost rape by a rev., her life savings was stolen by another , yet another try to exorcise the demons from my mom after my mom suffer a nervous breakdown. A harsh reality from a young aspiring rev. was to know that most of my peers where just mere charlatans hiding behind the Bible. Is there's such a thing as devils these man of the cloth was a clear representation of that perceived reality. After hearing the confessions of many Reverend and pastors of several denominations I woke up and said this world is not for me. For leaving the church and renouncing my calling I was branded a heretic. Off I went in search of the truth, 30 years later the only truth I could find was within my heart. This truth is the love and compassion of the origin of all things, everything else has been tainted by those so call representatives of GOD. This is just the experience of one man, yet many of my friends who branded me as a heretic years later told me that they also fell into the same trap and became a very poor example of the ideal they where trying to teach. You can use the good book to judge others, the irony is that unless we ourselves can live the words another thousand years will come and go and all we will be doing is just talking . Is time for each individual to become responsible for his or her own actions not blame it on God or Satan if they cannot live in harmony with themselves and others. We have all the tools we need to create a better world for ourselves our families and neighbors. I know I got my wake up call. So while this thread is about mind control it is appropriate to say that in general we are just daydreamers . Live and love my friends, it makes absolutely no difference to me what your belief are, all that matters is the heart that is vibrating with the frequency of love , forgiveness and compassion even for those who have harm us in one way or another.

Many blessings to all..:wub:

thedot

25th May 2010, 15:43

... the problem is not the Church not the State not the Jews not the Masons not the Jesuits not the CIA not the CFR not this and not that not etc etc
it is you and I and each one of us by the choices we make

Wow! This time David Icke and Bill Ryan couldn't say it better! :) Thank you for this rare opportunity to agree with every word :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Kids traumatized and humiliated, 80 million native american indicans exterminated all in the name of the cross and christianity. Of course we have to add the millions that were killed by the inquisition in Europe and South America
Mind control, indoctrination and abuse of power by Christian and Catholic churches continue all over the world but they are so powerful that is all hushed up. Add to that the recent scandals of pedophilia and well it breaks my heart!
I did not started this thread to talk about these things but I guess one thing leads to the other. The question we need to ask ourselves is, who is behind the infiltration of the New Age movement....Christian, Catholic and Massonic CIA officials
I was born Catholic myself and never given the choice to op out. They humiliated us in school almost every day and called us evil and sent us to confess with priests that were only interested in whether we were masturbating ourselves and will ask questions about all sorts of explicit sexual sins, it was so revolting. There were people starving in my country but the nuns were well fead and had baquets for the priests every week. They exploited the indians an made them work for food and board just because they were poor. I could go on but what is the point
Organized religion is the same world over, it matters not the denomination. Power makes people abuse their fellow humans and corrupts so the only solution is no organized religion, to follow our own spirit deep within because that way we can not be abused or mind controled

Dear stardustaquarion, "Christian, Catholic and Massonic CIA officials" are on the surface, they are perfectly visible, and thus are not what is called "unseen hands". When looking for the dark forces behind the New Age movement (not infiltrated but created by them), if you know the name of a person, then it's a wrong person. Those who really rule this word have enough means to change their identity, names, etc. as often as it suits them best. It's their high-placed slaves in politics, Church, CFR, CIA, etc. that are "condemned" to keep the same identity all though their careers. But they are just that - slaves (even if privileged), not masters. Ordinary slaves risk to pay a fine or get arrested if they disobey, but Obama, Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Kissinger, just as Lady Di, immediately risk their lives if they do so. They are controllers of those below, but they are themselves controlled from the upper levels of the pyramid. I'm far from defending them! Just wanted to precise that as long as we continue to accept our slavery, we are not better than them, or even worse: 99,99% of the world population are willingly, even if unwittingly, working for them, thus supporting them, thus taking personal responsibility for what the elite are doing.

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 15:51

Wow! This time David Icke and Bill Ryan couldn't say it better! :) Thank you for this rare opportunity to agree with every word :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Dear stardustaquarion, "Christian, Catholic and Massonic CIA officials" are on the surface, they are perfectly visible, and thus are not what is called "unseen hands". When looking for the dark forces behind the New Age movement (not infiltrated but created by them), if you know the name of a person, then it's a wrong person. Those who really rule this word have enough means to change their identity, names, etc. as often as it suits them best. It's their high-placed slaves in politics, Church, CFR, CIA, etc. that are "condemned" to keep the same identity all though their careers. But they are just that - slaves (even if privileged), not masters. Ordinary slaves risk to pay a fine or get arrested if they disobey, but Obama, Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Kissinger, just as Lady Di, immediately risk their lives if they do so. They are controllers of those below, but they are themselves controlled from the upper levels of the pyramid. I'm far from defending them! Just wanted to precise that as long as we continue to accept our slavery, we are not better than them, or even worse: 99,99% of the world population are willingly, even if unwittingly, working for them, thus supporting them, thus taking personal responsibility for what the elite are doing.

I agree with what you say. I posted the videos to show that there are no holy churches nor inocent followers and when people follow ideas they align with the past and the present of the institutions that they supporting.

I am kind of fed up with the bible bashers that have trolled this thread uninvited and can not live us alone discussing "the infiltration of the new age movement". I had enough of bible bashers in my childhood but there you are, they took the world by force and they have taken this thread by force!

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 15:53

Wow! This time David Icke and Bill Ryan couldn't say it better! :) Thank you for this rare opportunity to agree with every word :)

tnx how about thedot - could he say it any better lol

oh you already did up there

very well said

I promise as long as I don't read BS - I'll be still

thedot

25th May 2010, 16:11

tnx how about thedot - could he say it any better lol

oh you already did up there

very well said

I promise as long as I don't read BS - I'll be still

Lol, what about the following "heresy"? For me, the apotheosis of BS is when people advocate God. Don't they realize that by doing so they are placing themselves above him? :)

Celine

25th May 2010, 16:23

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 16:23

Lol, what about the following "heresy"? For me, the apotheosis of BS is when people advocate God.

yes almost like I know something about Him

I admit I say God Is to people who say God is not

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 16:28

Going back to topic

Found this

quote
Was the “New Age Movement” a CIA mind control creation?

Source : histories-mysteries.com/

A Course in Miracles, published in 1975, is a book considered by its students to be their “spiritual path” – some have labelled it the “New Age Bible”. It has sold millions of copies. But could it have been part of a CIA mind control experiment? One of its authors was definitely a key MKULTRA scientist.

Steve Ash & Philip Coppens

New Ageism emerged in the 1970s. Conceptually derived from the New Thought Movement of the early 20th century – which culminated in the ‘New Age’ spirituality that spawned the likes of the Findhorn Foundation – as well as entwined with an emerging psychedelic counterculture and established neo-pagan subcultures, it nevertheless should be seen as a separate development with its own characteristics. The term New Ageism as used here should thus not be confused with these traditions, nor the Oriental Mysticism it often distorts, but rather be seen as a parasitic current within these streams, that due to its clever marketing and well connected promoters has now completely absorbed its host. With its dominant position in the alternative market and commercial media it now sets the agenda. A distinctly escapist one according to many, as well as one tainted with a rather self-centred attitude and faith in mainstream institutions. This article looks at one reason this state of affairs may have come about.

Illuminati or counterculture?

In 1982 Robert Maxwell’s Pergamon Press released the now infamous Changing Images of Man report (a 283 page epic, originally privately released by Stanford Research Institute in 1972). What this strange and lengthy book is all about is a controversial issue, given its speculative nature and vague, contradictory format. According to right wing conspiracy theorists it was a devious attempt by elite ‘Illuminati’ to introduce their subversive ‘New Age’ ideas into mainstream political thought; according to dismissive left wing critics it was an even more devious attempt by the secret Establishment to hijack increasingly popular countercultural philosophies, domesticate them and turn them to the advantage of a global elite. An element of both can be found in the text, which clearly outlines an apparently sincere desire to evolve in an ethical and sustainable direction – though possibly from an unconsciously self-righteous and self-deluding mindset – together with a paranoid fear of immanent system collapse, along with a thinly disguised fear of the ‘ignorant masses’ and a ‘mindless counter culture’ (perhaps true from a dinosaur ‘elite’ perspective).

As the report’s conclusion states: ‘3.There is a serious mismatch between modern industrial-state culture and institutions and the emerging new image of man. This mismatch produces such reactions as the growing challenge to the legitimacy of business institutions whose primary allegiance appears to be to their stockholders and managers, the growing disenchantment with the technocratic elite, the decreasing trust and confidence in governments, all revealed in recent survey data. The mismatch could result in serious social disruptions, economic decline, runaway inflation, and even institutional collapse. On the other hand, institutions can modify themselves and adapt to a new cultural paradigm, though probably not without a relatively traumatic transition period.’ (p. 185)

Among the suggested ‘modified institutions’ was a return to ‘spiritual traditions’, including the ‘foundational Masonic heritage of America’ (complete with pictures of the ‘eye on the pyramid’ from the post 1930’s dollar bill!). But overall the new cultural paradigm hinted at is a distinctly pacifying New Ageism: a culture of acceptance, peace and unity ideal for maintaining social order, though along with a continuing solipsistic mindset.

SRI, a government think-tank

What rang alarm bells for the left was the fact that the original 1972 report by SRI was the result of a study project commissioned by ‘Government departments’, and that SRI had until then predominantly worked for the Pentagon and CIA, as well as private concerns such as the liberal Rockefeller Foundation. Moreover, Stanford University was a central component of many years in State and Military funded ‘mind control’ and psychic research, as well as a wide ‘invisible college’ network, that extended from the likes of Andrija Puharich (and his famous psychic protégées and CIA friends) at its inner core, to their counter cultural fellow travellers, like the maverick artist Harry Smith, a leading member of the OTO at the time, and cult writer Robert Anton Wilson, on its outer fringes (perhaps explaining why the latter sometimes ‘suspected’ that he may have met the ‘real Illuminati’!). Of course there is no evidence that everyone in the network knew all its connections. Intelligence operations are not open source, but all these were no doubt valuable cells in an ideas network. I (Steve) asked a hippy friend once if he thought the CIA was interested in the counterculture. He declared that of course they were, a meme war was on, and both sides were trying to infiltrate each other! A fantasy perhaps, but a plausible idea. Sadly, I thought while the counterculture may be considerably smarter, the State has far more resources, and I couldn’t imagine a hippy ‘infiltrating’ anything like that.

For the conspiracy theorists, it was highly significant that the ‘Masonic philosophy’ suggested by the report was identical to that promoted by Henry Wallace, the eccentric, millionaire, business tycoon; Christian Theosophist and honorary 33rd degree Freemason, who had been FDR’s Vice President, and fellow ‘Shrine’ member. Who as Treasury Secretary had spookily put the aforementioned ‘eye on the pyramid’ on the dollar bill, symbolically marking the ‘new regime’! Wallace had laudably been an architect of the New Deal, and an enemy of the emerging Military Industrial Complex, but was also a fanatical proponent of World Federalism, led by an ‘enlightened’ American State Capitalism. His personal philosophy seems to have been based on a bizarre mix of left leaning Fundamentalist Christianity, Tibetan Buddhism and the 19th century Occult philosophies of the Theosophical Society. Most damningly for the paranoid, he later also supported and helped fund military backed psychic research while out of office. What’s more, later so would his friend and spiritual heir, the millionaire philosopher Arthur Young, at one time a majority shareholder in the Bell Telephone Company, and himself a close friend of Andrija Puharich and business associate of the Rockefeller family. It was enough to make the conspiracy theorists spin, and they certainly did. However, it has to be said that there is no evidence that even if a cabal existed, it was of any great extent, and only these two had any clear esoteric associations at the time. Certainly most of the real elite conspiracies of the period were geared to removing FDR, rather than supporting his projects (such as the famous J.P. Morgan plot, exposed by General Butler in 1934, and those of other pro Nazi sympathisers). But of course only the naïve conspiracy theorist believes in a monolithic ‘Them’; real covert politics are far more complex.

Getting the message out

Wallace had sent his Theosophist guru and adviser Nicholas Roerich to Tibet, allegedly to make contact with the ‘secret masters of Shamballa’, an eccentricity eventually used by his enemies to get him removed from political office. More prosaically, he funded Roerich’s Peace Pact, an international, spiritually oriented, cultural association he hoped would unite all ‘true religions’ for his ‘new world order’. Despite this, Wallace seems to have shared the same biases as the Tibetans against the Chinese and Islam. Nevertheless, it was his naïve approaches to the Soviet Union, and his opposition to the emerging Cold War that was the cause of his final downfall. The main message in the ‘Changing Images of Man’ could be interpreted as a revival of his philosophy twenty years on.

The former publishing tycoon Robert Maxwell, a conservative social democrat (and an alleged Zionist, with Mossad connections), is said to have taken a personal interest in the open publication of the formerly confidential SRI report and had copies sent to all his friends and business associates, apparently believing its message was crucial. Coincidentally or not, Maxwell-owned publishing houses would also later become involved in the New Age market.

One of the most prolific publishers of basic New Age and Theosophical Books is Lucis Trust. This is the most obvious connection between the New Age and the corporate and political world, also publishing texts by the United Nations and financed in part by the Rockefeller Foundation. Founded in the 1920s by the far right Theosophist Alice Bailey and her 32nd degree Masonic partner Foster Bailey, the company was the official publisher of Theosophical Society texts in the US, before being bought up and moved in a New Age direction. Bailey herself had been expelled from the Theosophical Society by Annie Besant, for her anti-Semitic views. The new owners were typically Ivy League elitists, and included the usual Rockefeller clique. A member of the same elite family, the late Lawrence Rockefeller, was also a major sponsor of UFO research and of the famous Harvard professor John Mack, who in the 1990s studied UFO abductions and who also had close links to the New Age Movement.

This, so far, seems fairly blatant. But the history of the New Age Movement and its landmark events and publications is full of less obvious but equally suspicious links.

The Cornerstones of the Modern New Age Movement

Seth Speaks (1970), a book by Jane Roberts, which is considered by many to be the founder of modern ‘channelling’ (standardising earlier experiments), appears to have had no hidden links, but created a template taken up by a myriad of both ‘truth-seeking’ and money-spinning cults ever since. Her channelled material corresponded almost exactly with the books on her shelves, though this does not imply conscious fraud.

The Harmonic Convergence of 1987, an astrological alignment billed as heralding a New Aeon, to fully emerge in 2012, was organized by Jose Arguelles. José and Lloydine Arguelles founded the Planet Art Network (PAN) in 1983 as an autonomous, meta-political, worldwide peace organization engaging in art and spirituality. Active in over ninety countries, PAN upholds the aforementioned Nicholas Roerich Peace Pact and Banner of Peace, symbolizing “Peace through Culture”.

The Celestine Prophecy (1993) was written by Writer and Film Producer, James Redfield, who quit his job as a therapist after studying New Age thought, in order to promote it. His imaginative fictional work was self published but quickly snapped up by Time-Warner Books in 1994, who enthusiastically marketed it next to their other minor New Age titles, making it a bestseller. Time Inc. was initially heavily funded by right wing banker J.P. Morgan, and, from 1922-1967, fascist sympathiser Henry Luce, who would heavily influence its political allegiances. It should also here be mentioned that the allied rivals, the conservative J.P. Morgan and the relatively liberal Rockefeller Foundations were major private backers of the CIA’s MKULTRA project.

The book Conversations with God, by Vedic philosopher Neale Donald Walsch, became a best seller the following year on the tail of this. Since then the New Age market became one of the most lucrative for publishers to enter and has become an autonomous subculture, though metaphorically perhaps much like the remote control drones used by the modern military.

A major New Age publisher in the US is Llewellyn Books. In 1961 the company was bought by Carl L. Weschcke, President of the pharmaceutical company Chester-West Inc. Some conspiracy theorists have privately suggested a link with Sandoz Pharmaceutical Inc, which controls many smaller companies. Sandoz produced the first LSD and worked closely with the CIA in the MKULTRA years. But no evidence of this link has been found. All of this is highly speculative of course and the reality is no doubt far more complex than any simplistic conspiracy theory. But I think what is outlined here demonstrates many key elements: the New Age movement has long been tainted by unsavoury connections.

A Course in Miracles

As mentioned, the above links are far from proven, but the same doubt does not exist for A Course in Miracles (also referred to as ACIM or the Course). The Course was originally written in a collaborative venture by Helen Schucman and William Thetford. In the early form of ACIM (commonly known as the “Urtext”) the “Voice” described them as scribes taking down the words of Jesus. According to Wapnick, Jesus was “a symbol of God’s love and not the historical Jesus of Nazareth”. In 1976, the Course was distributed as a three volume set, which had evolved from the original notes and comprised the three sections of the Course: the Text, Workbook, and Manual.

Helen Schucman was appointed associate professor of medical psychology to the faculty of the College of Physicians of the Columbia Medical Centre in 1965. Shortly after she experienced a series of vivid dreams, and later heard a ‘voice’, which she identified as Jesus, that began to dictate the Course to her. In other words, Schucman dreamt that Jesus spoke to her and revealed a new teaching. Schucman reported that she clearly heard from the voice the words, “This is a course in miracles. Please take notes.” Schucman did as she was told, and for the next seven years, via a process she described as “rapid inner dictation”, she produced nearly thirty notebooks of Jesus messages. With the assistance of her employer, Prof William Thetford, she later collated this into a text which formed the basis of the Course.

From Mind Control to New Age

For five years after his graduation in 1949, Thetford had worked as a research psychologist in both Chicago, and later in Washington, DC. According to Dr Colin Ross, Thetford worked on Project BLUEBIRD, an early CIA mind control program, from 1951 to 1953. He spent 1954 and 1955 as the director of clinical psychology at the Institute of Living in Hartford, Connecticut. From 1955 to 1957 he was an assistant professor of psychology at Cornell University’s CIA-funded Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology (a euphemism for social ‘mind control’). In 1958 he accepted an assistant professorship, which later developed into a full professorship, at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. During a portion of this same period he also served as the director of clinical psychology at the Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital. It was here that he would stay for the next twenty years, during which he received funding from the CIA’s MKULTRA program for research into personality structures, and it was here that he first met and hired Dr. Helen Schucman, hiring her as a research psychologist and assistant.

Jesus Loves Me

Channellers of Jesus Christ would – perhaps should – be treated with suspicion. But amongst the usual list of possible explanations for mounting a hoax, A Course in Miracles has an unusual candidate: CIA sponsored mind control.

Thetford co-headed the CIA’s mind control MKULTRA SubProject 130: Personality Theory, while at Columbia University, between 1971 and 1978. His colleague on this project was David Saunders. Thetford’s professional bio, also available on the A Course in Miracles website, makes reference to his involvement in a Personality Theory Research Project while Professor of Medical Psychology at Columbia University, but the information does not specifically cite this as a CIA MKULTRA SubProject – an omission we would expect to find. When we check dates, it is clear that A Course in Miracles was written in the middle of this project’s existence. The next question should therefore be whether it was part of this project. After all, the project addresses “personality theory” and the Course tackles how to heal the personality.

Some might argue that though the book was published in 1975, the sessions predated Thetford’s involvement with the CIA in 1971. But can we be sure? The story goes that in late 1965, Schucman began to channel the voice in her head. From 1965 to 1972, Thetford directly assisted Schucman with the transcription of the first three sections of the work, which was in fact the great bulk of the material. But one year into his involvement with the CIA, in 1972, Thetford and Schucman were introduced to Dr. Kenneth Wapnick, whom they invited to assist with the editing that was required to render the rough draft of the ACIM manuscript into a publishable format. So though it is possible that the actual sessions fell outside of Thetford’s MKULTRA employment, the promotion and publication fell squarely within it.

Furthermore, it has been alleged that among the subjects deleted from the original versions were remarks concerning “the CIA.” When some of these original versions were first published on the Internet in the late 1990s, they were almost as quickly removed by a court injunction brought by none other than Wapnick himself.

CIA sponsors

The publisher of the Course was the Foundation for the Investigation of Para Sensory Phenomena. Some observers wonder whether this may have been funded by members involved with or employed by SRI, which at the time was home to the Remote Viewing project – itself sponsored by the CIA. One of the people with connections to SRI was Judith Skutch, the president and founder of the Foundation.

In 1973, Skutch was one of Uri Geller’s first supporters, who was brought to SRI by Andrija Puharich. According to Andrew Tobias, most of Geller’s private demonstrations were done in Skutch’s apartment and it was this foundation that put up $60,000 to pay for SRI’s further study of Geller. As it is now known that funding for such experiments also came from the CIA, we can of course wonder whether the Foundation was a front for the CIA… which would mean that it was the CIA itself who published A Course in Miracles in 1975. That would mean that the Course was from beginning to end a CIA affair.

Could this couple have faked everything? Father Benedict Groeschel, a Catholic priest, knew Schucman both as a teacher and friend. He described William Thetford as “a mysterious character”, and “probably the most sinister person I ever met.” That is an interesting assessment, coming from a friend and Catholic priest.

Only after he retired from teaching did Thetford’s Columbia colleagues (who knew him best as a rare-books expert) discover that during the years they worked with him, he had been employed as an agent of the CIA – one who was, among other things, present at the first fission experiment conducted by physicists assigned to the Manhattan Project. Thetford also was “the most religious atheist I have ever known”, Groeschel recalled. Equally, Groeschel uncovered that Schucman, though outwardly an atheist, had been an admirer of the apparition of the Virgin Mary at Lourdes – quite an uncommon fascination for someone professing a Jewish faith, though, one could of course argue that the Virgin Mary was Jewish, so… Schucman was also embarrassed and feared, Groeschel remembered, that the book would create a cult, or a cult following, which of course it did. In her eyes, it was that “damned book”.

The first victim, or the First Lady?

Was Schucman the unknown victim, or active participant, in a government-sponsored experiment? As an associate professor, she definitely possessed the necessary intelligence to figure whether or not she was abused. Perhaps the channelling sessions were part of a CIA project, on par with the other experiments of similar ilk that occurred at SRI: remote viewing. Perhaps at the time of the experiment, there was never any intention of publishing what was received, but perhaps this decision was made at some point, which could account for Schucman’s description of her work as that “damned book”.

Furthermore, J.W. Gittinger was the primary personality assessor for MKULTRA. He pioneered scientific methods to enable him to identify the most susceptible types of personalities for Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, one of the leading scientists on the MKULTRA project. Gittinger’s work eventually surfaced as his “Personality Assessment System” (PAS). Two years after Schucman went to work for Thetford, they co-authored a paper on Gittinger’s PAS, suggesting they at least knew of him… or may even have written this paper within the framework of the MKULTRA project.

So could A Course in Miracles be part of some mind control experiment – or, to be more precise, a series of experiments to see what the mind was capable of? Author and Yogi Joel Kramer states that the Course could be considered a classic authoritarian example of programming thought to change beliefs. Long time teacher of the Course, Hugh Prather, notes that the Course students often become “far more separate and egocentric”, with many ultimately, “[losing] the ability to carry on a simple conversation”. He admits that he and his wife Gayle “had ended up less flexible, less forgiving, and less generous than we were when we first started our path!” It is definitely not the attitude the New Age Movement proclaims to promote.

A government interest in the occult

While occult phenomena have long been ridiculed by the scientific establishment, the CIA seriously entertained the notion that such phenomena might be highly significant for the spy trade. The Agency speculated that if a number of people in the US were found to have high ESP capacity, their talent could be assigned to specific intelligence problems. This was why, in 1952, the CIA initiated an extensive program involving the search for, and development of, exceptionally gifted individuals who could approximate perfect success in ESP performance. The Office of Security, which ran the ARTICHOKE project, was urged to follow all leads on individuals reported to have true clairvoyant powers so as to be able to subject their claims to rigorous scientific investigation. In 1952, one of the men who went in search of such psychics was Andrija Puharich and in the early 1970s, when SRI reinvigorated such projects, he once again searched the extents of the earth in search of psychic talent, which he found in Uri Geller.

In the 1950s, the CIA also began infiltrating séances and occult gatherings, which may explain why they were interested in a bizarre UFO/medium case in Maine in 1959. A memo dated April 9, 1953, refers to a domestic – and therefore illegal – operation that required the planting of a very specialized observer at a séance in order to obtain a broad surveillance of all individuals attending the meetings.

During the late 1960s, the CIA experimented with mediums in an attempt to contact and possibly debrief dead CIA agents. These attempts, according to Victor Marchetti, a former high-ranking CIA official, were part of a larger effort to harness psychic powers for various intelligence-related missions (PROJECT SCANATE) that included utilizing clairvoyants to divine the intentions of the Kremlin leadership.

Early in 1981, a well-known syndicated columnist Jack Anderson said: “my associate and I revealed a Pentagon secret that raised eyebrows from coast-to-coast. To the sceptics who wrote in, no, we don’t take hallucinogens. The Pentagon and the Kremlin are, indeed dabbling in the black arts, they are seriously trying to develop weapons based upon extrasensory perception…”. A Course in Miracles seems to have been a part of this psychic warfare… the question is: what was its intended purpose? And is it but a stand-alone case, or part of a larger group of projects, which might shed a radically different light on the origins of the New Age movement?

Sources

The Changing Images of Man Report (the concluding appendix is an easy summary) can be downloaded as a PDF here.

Bio

Stephen Ash is a London based writer, researcher, esotericist and student of parapolitics.

He has been involved with counterculture and the alternative sprirituality movement since the early 80s. His latest book is The Black Knights, an occult history of the English Templars and their heirs, he is currently writing its sequel Temple Garden, and researching a new book, a commentary on Aleister Crowley’s Liber Al vel Legis.

Philip Coppens is an author and investigative journalist, ranging from the world of politics to ancient history and mystery. He is the editor-in-chief of the Dutch magazine Frontier, as well as a frequent contributor to Nexus Magazine and New Dawn Magazine. Since 1995, he has lectured extensively, across the world. He is the author of The Stone Puzzle of Rosslyn Chapel, The Canopus Revelation, Land of the Gods, The New Pyramid Age and Servants of the Grail.

Syndication

The above article can be reproduced, provided Steve Ash and Philip Coppens are identified as the authors, and Histories & Mysteries is credited as the original source.

http://parabook.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/was-the-%E2%80%9Cnew-age-movement%E2%80%9D-a-cia-mind-control-creation/

greybeard

25th May 2010, 16:29

At last we are getting some harmony on the thread.
As RedeZra said we are the problem and the solution.
Honestly its down to perception. For me there is no enemy out there greater than the enemy within (ego) and even that is not an enemy it just dosent know any better.
I just dont feed it.
What world are we trying to create? A world full of infiltrators Power over us? Is that what we want?
Its easy, stop going there in the mind, stop feeding fear. Choose all that is good. I dont care if you dont believe in Jesus. Its my choice to.
Just let go of all thoughts of enemy out there.
For me there is no enemy out there. No one has control over me. Because thats the way I perceive the world and its my world. You can have whatever world you chose.
What you speak out of your mouth that what happens to you.
Im tired of promoting this book but once more if you really want to know about attractor fields and why whatever comes in to your life comes and how you can chage your life to be free of fear in mind and reality.
Get "Power vs Force / The Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior" By Dr David Hawkins a leading Psychiatrist of our time.

http://www.veritaspub.com/

I have the greatest respect for Frank and also Dan, love flows out of them.
Kriya a beautiful soul was deeply hurt by insensitive remarks on this thread.
We can disagree without being disagreeable surely.
I also count Beren and RedeZra as my friends -- where they go I appear too Lol.

Please think. If you are co-creators then every fear thought, that you have strengthens the perceived enemy and brings that which you fear into your world..
A story.
The dragon slayer was dying, the villagers were frightened that the Dragon would get them when he died.
They pleaded for him to stay alive.
He said.
I think you will find that when I have gone the dragon will have gone also.

Chris

Celine

25th May 2010, 16:32

*celine stands up and applauds greybeard*

Hear Hear!!!

thedot

25th May 2010, 16:41

Bible bashers have taken over?

ok ..now, you cant be serious?

some are personaly affected by how others feel about a.... book.

You are a creator. Made in the image of a Creator. Dont let them erase who you are.

Hi Céline,

Of course I am Creator of this world and of all that is in it ... including "bible bashers" and what they're doing. :) They are just other probabilities of myself! In this world, there is only me and - almost 7 billion "other me's". They are my creations, not somebody else's. (In your world, they are all your creations, and so on.)

Am I always in peace with all of my other "me's"? Far from that. But I should!! They are parts of me.

I may hate my left hand's thumb, but it hurts if I hurt it, lol! :)

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 16:43

*celine stands up and applauds greybeard*

Hear Hear!!!

let me join you then in the applause of this wise man with the grey beard :clap2:

Celine

25th May 2010, 16:44

We are all on the same team...EVEN if we dissagree..

thedot

25th May 2010, 16:45

yes almost like I know something about Him

I admit I say God Is to people who say God is not

We are returning ten pages back, lol! The question is not whether or not there is God, but where is he - inside or outside.

In fact, nobody really denies God - some simply call him otherwise.

Celine

25th May 2010, 16:48

Where is he?

A Great question!

Does it really matter?

thedot

25th May 2010, 16:55

Where is he?

A Great question!

Does it really matter?

It does. Those to whom God is outside expect to be "saved" by someone or something from outside of them. According to Ezra Pound, these people are condemned to forever stay slaves: "A slave is one who waits for someone to come and free him".

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 16:57

For me there is no enemy out there. No one has control over me. Because thats the way I perceive the world and its my world. You can have whatever world you chose.

Greybear, I am not doing this because I am afraid of enemies out there, it is because ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance have kept humanity scared of the wolf of the church for millenia and it is time to break the bond and move on by embracing our own power. I know you think we don't have any power but I know we do. I have experienced that power in my own healing so I don't need convincing nor at this point can be converted

I respect peoples beliefs, I wish they will respect others too but I can not force anyone to set aside their dogmatisms and start to think by themselves. If you are not interested in the infiltration of the new age movement, and you think that "there is no infiltration" and it is fearmongering what motivates you to post here?

And the same applies to the others that have done their best to turn this thread into bible bashing. All of you, can you really say that we live in a ideal world where there are no PTB trying to infiltrate the human mind? We are now talking about microchiping, is that godly?

Yes, it is all to easy to say everything is in divine right order and let people be raped by ministers from the church!

Matthew 21:12 Yeshua entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves...

We are compeled to do what we can for the good of our brothers and sisters that may fall into the web of de matrix of deception

frank samuel

25th May 2010, 16:58

While we all may disagree , for me is great to exchange the heartfelt words coming from each of you .
After all we all are growing even for some of the ol foggies like myself. Is good to keep an open mind and heart for each one of us has a lot to contribute. At home with 5 children I can see that even do they are brothers and sisters not one thinks or acts the same, each of them has their own unique way of thinking and expressing themselves . I try to teach them that tolerance and respect even for those we may not agree with or get along with is part of a healthy growth and emotional development . We old foggies can become a little grumpy in our old age, just kidding !!!

Blessings to all..:wub:

Moxie

25th May 2010, 17:02

I agree with your last post theDot, and Stardust!

and, one can very well be an infiltrator and not be aware of it, in fact, most slaves are Not aware of it.
Infiltration is connected with deception in this thread. I agree that tptw created the religions, new age, it's all designed to cause conflict and look how easy it is to do with unsuspecting minions right here at avalon.

Has anyone ever wondered why this New Age term was ever coined? It was designed to try and capture those that rejected organized religion.
Ever wondered why there are library book sections w/the title "occult"?
Why is anything designated "hidden" in the first place?
Is that what makes someone feel special, that they might have the "inside" scoop on something.

the example Chris made about the verse "I am the Way". someone is always giving us their meaning of it when, if that's what "jesus" wanted to say, he could have said it that way. The words are simple & do not require interpretation as tho there's a hidden meaning. Those who have ears to hear etc... like you are "specially endowed/awakened/chosen" to be able to understand. You think "Jesus" really said that?

To me, there is a distinct diference between religion and spirituality.
If Kryst consciousness is the jewel to be had, you wouldn't have anything to do w/religions nor want to even associate yourself as relying on the bible as if it's the sole, authentic truth, not if you've done your research. You must not pick n choose bits n pieces of something that is adulterated, especially quote from it to support your position while saying that you are not religious while quoting religious text from a saviour figure.

There is nothing in that book that you can't arrive at within yourself, in fact it's a hindrance except for the feel good inspirational portions read here n there but there's plenty of books out there that one can read for inspiration. As a matter of fact one never hears the word "scripture" even used when quoting other spiritual books, what does that tell you? Don't you ever take notice of things like that? They're mind memes, a virus infiltrating your very mind and speech.

Love and forgiveness are human attributes. No one is downgrading love and forgiveness.

Stardust, those videos are heartwrenching and it's detestable people like this are not prosecuted but protected by our government.

The title Infiltration of the New Age Movement, should more concisely be, Creation of the New Age by TPTW for those hard cores that rejected religions.... now that That hasn't worked, what's next can you imagine?
I have nothing further to say.

Fredkc

25th May 2010, 17:03

I spent almost an hour writing back to two of Greybeard's earlier posts here... suddenly it appears as if the thread has moved from there, and it all seems almost off-topic, at this point. Just the same...

Honestly its down to perception. For me there is no enemy out there greater than the enemy within (ego) and even that is not an enemy it just dosent know any better.Absolutely!

and Thank you for the kind note from the other day, sir.

God is neither "inside, or outside" IMO. as it bespeaks of a duality which isn't. Simply put,

God is.

Celine

25th May 2010, 17:06

It does. Those to whom God is outside expect to be "saved" by someone or something from outside of them. According to Ezra Pound, these people are condemned to forever stay slaves: "A slave is one who waits for someone to come and free him".

i suppose then, i must humbly dissagree with Ms Pound.

greybeard

25th May 2010, 17:13

Greybear, I am not doing this because I am afraid of enemies out there, it is because ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance have kept humanity scared of the wolf of the church for millenia and it is time to break the bond and move on by embracing our own power. I know you think we don't have any power but I know we do. I have experienced that power in my own healing so I don't need convincing nor at this point can be converted

I respect peoples beliefs, I wish they will respect others too but I can not force anyone to set aside their dogmatisms and start to think by themselves. If you are not interested in the infiltration of the new age movement, and you think that "there is no infiltration" and it is fearmongering what motivates you to post here?

And the same applies to the others that have done their best to turn this thread into bible bashing. All of you, can you really say that we live in a ideal world where there are no PTB trying to infiltrate the human mind? We are now talking about microchiping, is that godly?

Yes, it is all to easy to say everything is in divine right order and let people be raped by ministers from the church!

Matthew 21:12 Yeshua entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves...

We are compeled to do what we can for the good of our brothers and sisters that may fall into the web of de matrix of deception

Dear Star
Did you read my post where I wore the hat of a Hypnotherapist?
I accepted that New age had been infiltrated as has everything else.
We only differ in what to do about it.
Throughout time people have fought injustice, its still here, Why?
Because fighting is still fighting.
Wnen force is applied equal force resists.-- no change.
Definition of madness---doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Only the rising of consciousness will eradicate the Illuminati and all that goes with it.
The dark cannot resist the light.
You can shine light but darkness has no power.
Anti war parades are very dangerous places to go=-- filled with angry people.---Anger attracts more of the same. Violence more of the same.
Honestly time would be well spent reading the book I recommended.

With respect you confuse surrender and humility with being powerless, it quite the opposite, when aligned with God ones access to power is beyond belief.
Many people have been healed through me, but I dont claim to have personally done it.
I do have respect for you Star I believe that you are a genuine and loving concerned person I just feel that you will not get a desired result by using methods that have failed over and over again.
Chris

Celine

25th May 2010, 17:17

The power of submission...

It is a hard pill to swallow for most

HORIZONS

25th May 2010, 17:20

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 17:28

Dear Star
Did you read my post where I wore the hat of a Hypnotherapist?
I accepted that New age had been infiltrated as has everything else.
We only differ in what to do about it.
Throughout time people have fought injustice, its still here, Why?
Because fighting is still fighting.
Wnen force is applied equal force resists.-- no change.
Definition of madness---doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Only the rising of consciousness will eradicate the Illuminati and all that goes with it.
The dark cannot resist the light.
You can shine light but darkness has no power.
Anti war parades are very dangerous places to go=-- filled with angry people.---Anger attracts more of the same. Violence more of the same.
Honestly time would be well spent reading the book I recommended.

With respect you confuse surrender and humility with being powerless, it quite the opposite, when aligned with God ones access to power is beyond belief.
Many people have been healed through me, but I dont claim to have personally done it.
I do have respect for you Star I believe that you are a genuine and loving concerned person I just feel that you will not get a desired result by using methods that have failed over and over again.
Chris

Chris, I have not been promoting fighting, only awareness. Does it make us angry when we see that the world does not comform to our ideas? I don't get angry about these things anymore but I can understand that others do. Anger is better than indiference because then we are compelled to question the status quo, we have to revise our core beliefs and decided whether we keep supporting the illuminati BEAST or whether we are going to step aside and be our own men or woman.

Following others mean that we are believing not knowing. Until we know we can not shine our own light, we will still be believing and thinking that "everything is ok" when it is not

There are ways of revelion that require no violence and that is when we resound a loud noice within us and stop doing whatever we can that supports tptb. And do the opposite of what they want like buying fair trade, not going to church, not voting, the possibilities are endless. But first we need to know what is what because beliving in the New Age movement is still buying in the "love, light and clulessness" that gives the power away precisely where it will do most harm

Stardust

PS how many people do you think participate from "world invocation day"? Are those people aware that they are calling Lucifer to come to Earth? this is just and example, there are hundreds

When we don't know who is behind a phylosophy we readily fall pray of the manipulators and give our power to them to do as they please and destroy the human race

thedot

25th May 2010, 17:39

The power of submission...

It is a hard pill to swallow for most

Yes. Having already chosen the red pill, the blue pill is really hard to swallow :)

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 17:42

Yes. Having already chosen the red pill, the blue pill is really hard to swallow :)

hear, hear!

Celine

25th May 2010, 17:44

What has been written about Lucifer is as distorted as the rest.

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 17:50

What has been written about Lucifer is as distorted as the rest.

Hi Celine, I was refering to Lucifer as the cult of the sun invictus, which is a Illuminati cult. Lucifer as I understan it, is a collective of fallen angels, not a individual. I read several of the books of Lucis Trust (previously Luciferian press) by Alice Baily and the "World invocation day" is promoted by them and it is the NWO agenda of totalitarism

It is promoted within the NA movement as a good and "unifiying force" but for the wrong reasons

:wave:

HORIZONS

25th May 2010, 17:50

What has been written about Lucifer is as distorted as the rest.

Very true!

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 17:53

Of course I am Creator of this world and of all that is in it...

then you have the Right to do whatever you want with this world and anything in it

for such is the authority of the Creator

and now here are over 6 billion Creators all with the Right to do whatever they want with this world

if Rothschild wants to print money - he has the Right to do that

if Rockefeller wants to microchip us - he has the Right to do that

if Obama wants war - he has the Right to go to war

it's a fallacy to think that one is the Creator - it leads to trouble

there already is One Creator - you and I are personalities with the potential to become aware of the Creator

it is just daydreaming to think that one is the Creator

greybeard

25th May 2010, 17:58

Chris, I have not been promoting fighting, only awareness. Does it make us angry when we see that the world does not comform to our ideas? I don't get angry about these things anymore but I can understand that others do. Anger is better than indiference because then we are compelled to question the status quo, we have to revise our core beliefs and decided whether we keep supporting the illuminati BEAST or whether we are going to step aside and be our own men or woman.

Following others mean that we are believing not knowing. Until we know we can not shine our own light, we will still be believing and thinking that "everything is ok" when it is not

There are ways of revelion that require no violence and that is when we resound a loud noice within us and stop doing whatever we can that supports tptb. And do the opposite of what they want like buying fair trade, not going to church, not voting, the possibilities are endless. But first we need to know what is what because beliving in the New Age movement is still buying in the "love, light and clulessness" that gives the power away precisely where it will do most harm

Stardust

PS how many people do you think participate from "world invocation day"? Are those people aware that they are calling Lucifer to come to Earth? this is just and example, there are hundreds

When we don't know who is behind a phylosophy we readily fall pray of the manipulators and give our power to them to do as they please and destroy the human race

We are not really far from agreement Star. Resisting is a form of force. Karate teaches using the others strength to defeat.
Power vs Force. Illuminat and all the evil you rightly speak of is force, Power is mightier than force .
Im all for educating, which is why I promote Power vs Force. Hawkins has been A power in the world Look him up in who's who in America. He has been responsible for resolving conflicts and therefore saved many lives.

I am my own person I put no head above my own but I have learned from many.
I am only interested in what works, everything else is a waste of time.
Fair enough I have a different experience of life so II can say as an ex suicidal alcoholic that surrender works as outlined in the steps of AA.
It takes great strength and courage yet humility to surrender.
I dont need or take pills. Laughing.
Chris

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 18:12

We are not really far from agreement Star. Resisting is a form of force. Karate teaches using the others strength to defeat.
Power vs Force. Illuminat and all the evil you rightly speak of is force, Power is mightier than force .
Im all for educating, which is why I promote Power vs Force. Hawkins has been A power in the world Look him up in who's who in America. He has been responsible for resolving conflicts and therefore saved many lives.

I am my own person I put no head above my own but I have learned from many.
I am only interested in what works, everything else is a waste of time.
Fair enough I have a different experience of life so II can say as an ex suicidal alcoholic that surrender works as outlined in the steps of AA.
It takes great strength and courage yet humility to surrender.
I dont need or take pills. Laughing.
Chris

We do not have to agree Chris, we can agree to disagree. I don't call it resistance, I call it conscious action. It is being aware of the way we are directing our energies, where are we putting our thoughts and what we are supporting.

People have to take decisions every second, for example, would you say that it is resistance to fix the leak in the USG? will it be ok to let the oil flow and destroy all the oceans? will it be ok to let humanity dissapear? This are questions that require action, sitting on a bench is not an option any more

:wave:

frank samuel

25th May 2010, 18:19

The power of the heart vs. destructive force. My 15 yr.old son is 6 foot 2, 250 lbs. I am happy that my son has chosen to love his fellow students. It would not be a pretty scene for him to defend himself against a naughty 120 lbs student. Of course nobody is crazy enough to pick a fight with him. Force vs Force is never the way for me a hard lesson to learn since my son takes up after his father, yes I have to confess I have broken a few jaws in my time, ooops nothing to be proud of. I rather walk away and meet force with love thus the power of the heart. The way you choose to defend yourself can make the difference between ending the problem or complicating the problem further. Sorry off topic...

greybeard

25th May 2010, 18:24

We do not have to agree Chris, we can agree to disagree. I don't call it resistance, I call it conscious action. It is being aware of the way we are directing our energies, where are we putting our thoughts and what we are supporting.

People have to take decisions every second, for example, would you say that it is resistance to fix the leak in the USG? will it be ok to let the oil flow and destroy all the oceans? will it be ok to let humanity dissapear? This are questions that require action, sitting on a bench is not an option any more

:wave:

Disagreeing is ok.

This is a good bench mark for me.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
The wisdom to know the difference.

Im a realist I do what I can.
We all have different functions -- different callings, all valid, all equal souls.

By doing what I can to lift my own spiritual vibration I know that this energy lifts others.
A rising tide lifts all boats.

Respectfully
Chris

stardustaquarion

25th May 2010, 18:46

Moxie

25th May 2010, 18:47

truthseekerdan

25th May 2010, 18:50

Just had a little break from my activities to post this. Below is some food for thought, that I found worth posting for all. Enjoy! :)

We should strive not to be confused or complacent. It is time now for individuals to make a decision on where they want to be for the challenges ahead, with whom they want to spend their time, and exactly how they intend to devote their energy and commitment. The best advice is to choose wisely and choose well but not to wait any longer.

Jesus said: “Ye know not the day or the hour.” So why do we wake up every morning still thinking we know what the day will bring? In fact we do not know. The processes we are looking at herein could take a day, a year, or a century. So what is to be done? Following are some suggestions:

– Find a teacher or group that can guide you to spiritual enlightenment and where you can help others do the same.

– Teach yourself to act considerately to all those around you, including people you consider “evil.”

– Start viewing the natural world as alive and conscious, not an inert mass of dead matter.

– Get out of debt, get off the grid, and learn to live with only what you really need of a material nature.

– Learn to love work and do that work with reverence and gratitude.

– Stop watching TV; instead watch your health and diet.

– Develop your mental, emotional, and manual skills.

– Be honest with yourself and others.

– Refuse the “chip,” no matter what.

– Never stop learning.

– Grow food.

– Laugh a lot.

– Be at peace.

– Be happy.

Source: Infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com/the-time-of-testing-is-here/)

Fredkc

25th May 2010, 18:52

Does anyone else have the impression that this can also become a "circular, and self-fulfilling" notion?

Consider the idea that, once we have "called out" every possible method of helping someone along their path, have we not then taken part in the process of "infiltration of the New Age Movement" ? ("We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo)

If you use a stick, until a crutch comes along, then your leg, once it has healed, what profit comes in scorning the one who has found "their stick", or their need for one, for that matter?
Forgive them that.
Forgive you noticed, too,
They did not make "your choice, but wrongly" or anyone else's for that matter.

You know, it occurs to me that what this is about is actually a process, not a destination.
And no one can completely block one's ability to engage in a process but one's self. No one deludes another from that experience, either. Everyone "knows" when they feel the train stop. The best one can do is delay another. "Where does that get fun?"

frank samuel

25th May 2010, 19:00

Good point Fredkc !!!:pleasantry:

RedeZra

25th May 2010, 19:06

("We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo)

lol that pretty much sums it up

surly then we can make him a friend - since he is us after all

lightblue

25th May 2010, 19:09

People have to take decisions every second, for example, would you say that it is resistance to fix the leak in the USG? will it be ok to let the oil flow and destroy all the oceans? will it be ok to let humanity dissapear? This are questions that require action, sitting on a bench is not an option any more

my best compliments to you stardust for lovingly conducting this thread...i support proactive awareness too...
yours :yu: l

Ruis

26th May 2010, 00:09

Gene Rodenbury -
GENE: Have the civilizations represented by The Nine visited Earth in humanity’s distant historical past?

Tom: Yes, many times.

GENE: And is it also true that some of them remained on Planet Earth interbreeding with the humans here?

Tom: There were civilizations that colonized the planet Earth. The original beings that evolved on the planet Earth were what you would call the black race.

GENE: Do I then understand that the races other than the black are result of interbreeding between the black and the people of the civilizations?

Tom: No. The orientals, the whites and reds have been colonized, have been of other civilizations.

GENE: Are they the results of breeding on Earth or were they brought to Earth?

Tom: They are the result of breeding upon Planet Earth.

GENE: Since the whites and reds and yellows represent breeding of advanced civilizations, does that mean that the black is inferior to other races, or are they merely different? Can you explain what the difference is?

Tom: The black is an equal race upon the planet Earth. Those that colonized from other civilizations to the planet Earth (and the Hawk’s civilization had a portion of involvement) attempted.... How can we explain? Before the time of 32,000 BC, seeds were placed upon the planet Earth. Then by 32,000 BC the seed had evolved into a human being. Then at that time those of the other civilizations came to this planet with a being we could call the Hawk to interbreed the seeded peoples with beings from other civilizations. The blacks evolved from the planet. It was an experience: to see in which manner the originals, that were not seeded, would evolve in comparison with those that colonized. Those that colonized, after a period of time, because they came from other civilizations that had perhaps more intelligent technology, began to feel that they were superior to the black. They contrived to dominate the blacks. What was planned for the planet Earth did not come to pass. After the seeding, it was discovered by the civilizations that, of all the planets in the Universe, it is the only planet that has such beauty, such diversity of changes, and such density - more than any other planet in the Universe. It was also discovered that those that existed upon Planet Earth had great physicalness and sexuality, not witnessed on the other planets, and the colonists began to live in desire for physicalness, and began repeatedly reincarnating on Planet Earth. As they recycled, they began to hold the originals of the planet Earth in bondage.

More discussions on this subject with other sitters:

STEVE: I’d like to ask about the historical information we’ve been given about civilizations on Earth before 32,000 BC. I understand that the black races were the only people on Earth at this time, is this so?

Tom: It was those that evolved on Earth. It was the original on the Earth.

STEVE: They were not in just one location in Africa, were they? Because I understand that there have been finds in Siberia and China.

Tom: They evolved on all the landmasses of the Earth.

STEVE: Yet people of China, Siberia and South America are not negroid.

Tom: When you speak of others, the red, the yellow, and the white, they were descended from colonization’s from other civilizations many thousands of years ago. This is not the same as the colonization from the higher civilizations of 32,400 BC. The originals were the blacks.

JOHN: And so, is it true to say that blacks are the only race that went through a complete evolution from here?

Tom: Yes. Those that are the nature of black were the indigenous of this the Earth. They may, if they have the wish, go as souls to other worlds for evolution, or evolve in different situations within this planet. It is their choice.
The Only Planet of Choice by Phyllis V. Schlemmer
“Creation is not finished. Man is clearly approaching a phase of metamorphosis. The earlier human species has already reached the stage of dying out.... All of the force of creation will be concentrated in a new species... [which] will surpass infinitely modern man.... Do you understand now the profound meaning of our National Socialist movement?” (Adolf Hitler, quoted by Hermann Rauschning, Hitler ma'a dit [Hitler Speaks] p.147, translated in The Occult and the Third Reich, Jean and Michel Angebert, p.178.)

Hitler’s ideas about the Aryan race came from the Thule Society. Thule was supposedly a lost island inhabited by a ancient race that were “masters of wisdom” (much like the mythology of Atlantis or Lemuria and the spiritual hierarchy, the White Brotherhood today). Though unseen, they are a superior highly intelligent beings working behind the scenes (as Benjamen Crème states). Hitler believed he was in contact with them and that they gave him power and energy. Through his alleged contacts with this mythical superior race, he believed he was destined to lead the Aryans to rule the world. Hitler's vision of the world was that Germany would unite the world under his leadership which would last for 1,000 years.

Separate but Equal is a lie. Told to those who whilst embracing racist ideology don't want to think of themselves as racist.

Ruis

26th May 2010, 00:37

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke 1729-1797

I think live and let live is a good. But some things cannot simply be ignored, some uncomfortable truths cannot go unsaid.

Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein

Beren

26th May 2010, 00:46

It isn’t negative energy to speak out against deception and manipulative control, or to refuse to support it. That’s taking a stand for freedom and exercising empowerment.

And it's the ultimate New Agey concept that to think of something equates to giving it energy. That if you don't think about something, it ceases to exist or have impact in the world. That kind of thinking is a "feel good" world and lacks action.

Moxie,

you are right.

Truth has to be told.

So far in this thread we were agreeing about many things and a lot of good stuff emerged on the light of the day,until I or RedeZra or Greybeard or Truthseekerdan mentioned Bible.

As you may have noticed ,for my self I do not belong to any religion.
But very surprising to me is that many bash Bible and haven`t even read it.

Why is that so?

What are people afraid of?
Why so many arguments against Jesus or Yeshua? Endless talks was he or were he or did he...???

Did someone read what is written in the Bible about what he was saying?
Or people copy paste hearsays ???

Or people lack the courage to face the words of Jesus...
I don`t need David Icke to tell me (I respect the guy BTW ) that I need to free my self from grid and matrix!
I read that from Jesus`s words written in Bible a long time ago...before Internet came.
I don`t want to be rude but HELLO!!!

Is anyone listening nowadays???

Religions are the ones which brought a lot of evil,did Bible did it?
They used it as excuse to DO THEIR bidding ! It was a CLOAK for their evil!

In fact if you`d open the very Bible they claim for themselves, it would judge them swiftly!

Religions and movements abused Bible and the message for ages...they still do it.

I will repeat again ,new age is a spiritual program made for enslavement of certain level of human minds. Not for everyone but suitable lie for quasi awakened ones...

P.S.
Thedot, how come yesterday we had good talk about similar themes and today you say that RedeZra ,and I or even Graybeard or Dan are infiltrators?
Why,because we said that we believe in Jesus? We respect Bible, we don`t agree with your view ? And we`re infiltrators?
Did I pushed wrong buttons?
I respect you and expect similar in return, but if you think what you think still, then the name of your magazine DOT CONNECTOR does not seem to work for you.

Good luck with connecting the dots,picture is quite big with a lot of puzzle pieces.

thedot

26th May 2010, 03:07

P.S.
Thedot, how come yesterday we had good talk about similar themes and today you say that RedeZra ,and I or even Graybeard or Dan are infiltrators?
Why,because we said that we believe in Jesus? We respect Bible, we don`t agree with your view ? And we`re infiltrators?
Did I pushed wrong buttons?
I respect you and expect similar in return, but if you think what you think still, then the name of your magazine DOT CONNECTOR does not seem to work for you.

Good luck with connecting the dots,picture is quite big with a lot of puzzle pieces.

Beren,

First, I never said, or even thought, anything negative about Greybeard, and, sorry, I don't know any person nicknamed "Dan" here and thus coudn't say anything at all about him.

Also, I've never said I "believe in Jesus". I don't "believe" in anything. Like Greybeard, I prefer knowing to believeing. I like Jesus and his message as I perceive them, but for me he is a generic personage, a hero in a series of highly educative novels, nothing more.

I do respect the Bible as a historical document to study, but not as a "word of God" to follow blindly. As I wrote many times here, I definitely reject Biblical idea of God as a king and creator, and of the human race as his creation and sheep.

Being adversaries doesn't exclude respect. I consider you an adversary, not an enemy, so I have no reasons to disrespect you. At the same time, it is hard not to see that what you promote in your posts is exactly what the New Age philosophy is based upon. Seeing your irrefutable competence in religions, I can't believe you're doing it unwittingly. If you admitted it, there would be no reason to call it "infiltration", but you are denying it. Even in the above message you say you "do not belong to any religion", that "new age is a ... suitable lie", all while promoting and advocating the key elements of both religion and the New Age doctrine in your other posts. This is exactly how Mme Blavatsky and her followers proceeded, and how modern evangelists proceed. They start with rejecting and criticizing a concept in general and then, surreptitiously and gradually, one by one, introduce the key elements of the same concept, so that it will take final form already in the listeners' heads, as their own idea. In this thread you've started by agreeing with the author of the initial post, and then, almost immediately, passed to your own topic, thus taking the discussion away from its original subject. Sorry, but the Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "infiltration", and those doing it "infiltrators". It's in this, "dictionary" sense that I used this word, with no allusions to CIA, KGB or other "bad guys".

As for the Dot Connector... You certainly know the game this expression comes from. Contrary to a puzzle, the idea in this game is not to connect all available dots, but to choose only those that will result in a picture. All other dots are there just to make this task more difficult. Connecting them all, without selecting ones and rejecting others, would result in a dense and formless grid, not in a clear picture. And since there's no one but me in the magazine, I'm alone to make the selection. :)

greybeard

26th May 2010, 07:10

Respecting the wishes of Star I posted on the ego somethings I thought relevant. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=21464&page=16#post21464
Communication is only a small percent by language.
I believe we would find if we were face to face there would be no adversary.
There are important dots that cant be joined on an internet forum.
I believe we all want the same thing we only differ in the way we perceive it can be accomplished.
Being spiritual is not complacent but taking right action.
World war two could have been avoided if Churchill had been listened to. Chamberlain was naive and therefore millions die.
I am pro active not reactive -- I do what is possible for me to do.
Please look at the part of the thread I have posted as it contains my possible solution to the larger picture,
Please leave comments there.
Regards Chris
Ps The bible was written by men.
According to Dr Hawkins Revelations was channeled from the lower Astral therefore it was infiltrated.
The first two "commandments" are all that is needed to bring a peacful world. Jeus promote love and was proactive. He spoke from Christ consciousness. One translation of devil is EGO.
C

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 07:11

I know I will methaforically get crucified for this but some years ago

when I was studiying with the gnostics I read that Jesus stands for Zeus and it was a way to

incorporate the Roman paganism into the watered down Krystian texts. It appears that Costantine

had a hand on that. When one refers to the old history there is no logic when a blood thirsty

man like Costantine suddenly changes his habits for no gain. We know all the rulers are all

descendants of the same families and they do not change their habits for "free"

Im sorry Star but I have to comment on this

the Church is not the biggest baddest wolf - but it's certainly no innocent kitten either

the State kicked the Church to the curve a long time ago

the plan for world domination was probably plotted in the Lodges top floors

let's take a quick basic look at the Church up til today

Constantine I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I) ended an almost 3 centuries long persecution of Christians in 313

his mom Helena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_of_Constantinople)was a Christian and she journeyed to Jerusalem in 325 to locate relics of the Judeo-Christian tradition and to build churches upon sites which commemorated the life of Jesus
according to tradition she recovered remnants of the cross and the nails when excavating at
Golgotha - and there Constantine built a basilica - where the Church of the Holy Sepulchre
still stands

in Rome Constantine built the Old Saint Peter's Basilica on the spot where the Basilica of
Saint Peter stands today

Constantine saw it as his duty to ensure that God was properly worshipped in his empire
and what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine

Constantine summoned a great ecumenical synod - First Council of Nicaea in 325 - in order to
define the Church's position against the growing often widely diverging philosophical and
theological interpretations of Christianity

the Council of Rome in 382 established the first Biblical canon when it listed the accepted
books of the Old and New Testament

the papal coronation of the Frankish King Charlemagne as the Holy Roman Emperor in 800 created a paradigm of Western emperors imposing control over the popes

in 1054 the Church split in the socalled East–West Schism
the west remained a part of the Catholic Church while the eastern (Greek) branch became the
Eastern Orthodox churches

in 1095 Byzantine appealed to Pope Urban II for help against renewed Muslim invasions which
caused Urban to launch the First Crusade aimed at aiding the Byzantine Empire and returning the
Holy Land to Christian control

in 1209 Pope Innocent III declared the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars a gnostic
Christian sect in Languedoc

in 1517 Martin Luther published The Ninety-Five Theses and the Church stood divided again -
Catholic vs Protestant - and after a century of consecutive religious wars in Europe - it ended
in 1648 with the Treaty of Westphalia

in the latter part of the 17th century Pope Innocent XI reformed abuses that were occurring in
the Church's hierarchy - simony nepotism and the lavish papal expenditures
He promoted missionary activity and tried to unite Europe against the Turkish invasion and
strongly condemned religious persecution

the Age of Discovery saw the expansion of Western European power and culture
the spreading of Catholicism to the Americas Asia and Oceania by explorers and missionaries

Pope Alexander VI had awarded colonial rights over most of the newly discovered lands to Spain
and Portugal - and the ensuing patronato system allowed state authorities and not the Vatican
to control all clerical appointments in the new colonies

although the Spanish monarchs tried to curb abuses committed against the Amerindians by
explorers and conquerors Antonio de Montesinos- a Dominican friar- openly rebuked the Spanish
rulers of Hispaniola in 1511 for their cruelty and tyranny in dealing with the American natives

some historians blame the Church for not doing enough to liberate the Indians - others point to
the Church as the only voice raised on behalf of indigenous peoples

in 1521 the Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan made the first Catholic converts in the
Philippines
Portuguese missionaries under the Spanish Jesuit Francis Xavier evangelized in India China and
Japan

in 1597 the Shogunate in Japan launched a severe persecution of Christians

despite Jesuit efforts in China the Chinese Rites controversy led the Kangxi Emperor to outlaw
Christian missions in 1721
these events added fuel to growing criticism of the Jesuits who were seen to symbolize the

independent power of the Church and in 1773 European rulers united to force Pope Clement XIV to dissolve the order
the Jesuits were eventually restored in the 1814 papal bull

from the 17th century onward the Enlightenment questioned the power and influence of the Church over Western society
eighteenth century writers such as Voltaire and the Encyclopedists wrote biting critiques of
both religion and the Church

the French Revolution of 1789 brought about a shifting of powers from the Church to the State
destruction of churches and the establishment of a Cult of Reason

in 1799 Napoleon Bonaparte invaded Italy imprisoning Pope Pius VI who died in captivity
Napoleon later re-established the Catholic Church in France through the Concordat of 1801
the end of the Napoleonic wars brought Catholic revival and the return of the Papal States

the spread of the British Empire brought the first Catholics to Australasia with the arrival of
Irish convicts at Sydney in 1788
by the close of the century missionaries had taken Catholicism to the neighbouring islands of
Oceania

in Latin America a succession of anti-clerical regimes came to power beginning in the 1830s
Church properties were confiscated bishoprics left vacant religious orders suppressed the
collection of clerical tithes ended and clerical dress in public prohibited

Pope Gregory XVI challenged the power of the Spanish and Portuguese monarchs by appointing his own candidates as colonial bishops
he also condemned slavery and the slave trade in the 1839 papal bull In Supremo Apostolatus

at the end of the 19th century Catholic missionaries followed colonial governments into Africa
and built schools hospitals monasteries and churches

in response to the social challenges of the Industrial Revolution Pope Leo XIII published the
encyclical Rerum Novarum
it set out Catholic social teaching in terms that rejected socialism but advocated the
regulation of working conditions the establishment of a living wage and the right of workers to
form trade unions

the 20th century saw the rise of various politically radical and anti-clerical governments

the 1926 Calles Law separating church and state in Mexico led to the Cristero War in which over
3,000 priests were exiled or assassinated churches desecrated services mocked nuns raped and
captured priests shot

in the Soviet Union following the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution persecution of the Church and
Catholics continued well into the 1930s
in addition to the execution and exiling of clerics monks and laymen the confiscation of
religious implements and closure of churches was common

during the 1936–39 Spanish Civil War - the Red Terror - sections of nearly all the leftist
groups killed tens of thousands of people - including 6,832 members of the Catholic clergy - as
well as attacks on landowners industrialists politicians and desecration and burning of
monasteries and churches

the Spanish Catholic hierarchy has always claimed that there was a planned and systematic
persecution of the Catholic Church by its enemies

Pope Pius XI referred to these three countries as a "Terrible Triangle" and the failure to
protest in Europe and the United States as a Conspiracy of Silence

Pope Pius XI publicly condemned the Nazis' persecution of the Church and their ideology of
neopaganism and racial superiority

the Church condemned the invasion of Poland and subsequent 1940 Nazi invasions

thousands of Catholic priests nuns and brothers were imprisoned and murdered throughout the
areas occupied by the Nazis

in the Holocaust Pope Pius XII directed the Church hierarchy to help protect Jews from the
Nazis
while Pius XII has been credited with helping to save hundreds of thousands of Jews by some
historians - others assert that Pius did not do enough to stop Nazi atrocities

postwar Communist governments in Eastern Europe severely restricted religious freedoms
although some priests and religious collaborated with Communist regimes many were imprisoned
deported or executed

the Church would be an important player in the fall of communism in Europe

read more about it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

greybeard

26th May 2010, 08:39

There is no doubt that the new age movement is infiltrated.
However if you were to ask my kids or the younger generation about new age they would scratch their head. It has long past its peak of interest.
This generation is got at by the media entertainment.
Not all media is unhealthy of course.
Every single thing that promotes thinking for yourself, peace love harmony respect for others has been infiltrated by lower consciousness. that includes the bible particularly the old testament and revelations. The teaching of Jeus still shines through.

I have addressed the subject in more detail on the ego thread to the best of my ability comments welcome there,
Chris

Ruis

26th May 2010, 09:08

Why dose every thread lead to Jesus and the bible?

Is it really that hard to stay on topic, without denouncing of affirming the bible or God?

I love chocolate but I dont bring it to every single debate, no matter how creamy and delicous, or the wonderous variety of tastes, or the bitter sweet taste of dark chocolate, and by the way white chocolate is no really chocolate, and did you know that Cadburys add vegtable oil that really changes the taste, and if more people bought fair trade chocolate it could change the farmers lives and then theres..........

I know you love Jesus and may you find joy in that love. But what has it got to do with the thread..Why not have a Thread on The Bible and others religous scriptures and debate the matter there.

greybeard

26th May 2010, 09:13

It has to do with infiltration my friend.
Chris
Ps Ruis I have addressed as I said the topic from a different perspective in the ego thread as stated

Ruis

26th May 2010, 09:18

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 10:08

Redezra, the church is still very much in power and most of the wars being fought in the planet TODAY are religious ones.

I respect that you believe but you don't respect what was the intention of this thread! Just so you know I am not answering any more of your posts. Lets agree to disagree and leave it there

Faith and religion have always been excuses for war and what is happening in the USA is worriying, look at this and deny it if you want but it will not make it less real

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jt9Qs7P7h2A&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jt9Qs7P7h2A&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

:rolleyes:

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 10:32

Back to topic!

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<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MSOOK3tocTk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MSOOK3tocTk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

greybeard

26th May 2010, 10:38

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 10:44

lightblue

26th May 2010, 10:48

hi redezra, (re your post #164)
briefly only - what point are you making? i believe the breakdown of historical events you list is factual,.. however, the interpretations as to why things happened the way they did vary greatly based on different authors' undestanding, saurces/commentaries they rely on, also their ambition/agenda.. . history is a very fickle science and .i'd just like to hear about your position in a few words.

i’ll mention one instance - f hegel's - who did some substantial work on philosophy of history… his inability to classify the history of bysantians as it would not fit his pedantic system was pathetic....he called it a “hateful example of how weak a state can be”..and dropped it altogether...didn’t want to bother…

in response to both yours and stardust’s comment (quote below):
the history of bysantine emperors’ succession is extremely intricate and messy and in that sense i see why hegel meant what he meant – it’s an endless saga of intrigue, conspiracy, overthrow and assassination where bloodlines are ignored (for the most part or completely) … sorry stardust, i know this doesn’t fit your proposition…constantine is a good example of that – he came to prominence thanks to his military skills while being employed by his uncle who was already employed by bysantine court under high military ranking …no honouring of bloodlines there…you could call it nepotism.

Quote Originally Posted by stardustaquarion
I know I will methaforically get crucified for this but some years ago

when I was studiying with the gnostics I read that Jesus stands for Zeus and it was a way to

incorporate the Roman paganism into the watered down Krystian texts. It appears that Costantine

had a hand on that. When one refers to the old history there is no logic when a blood thirsty

man like Costantine suddenly changes his habits for no gain. We know all the rulers are all

descendants of the same families and they do not change their habits for "free"

you won’t get rebutted by me, no..not sure about the evolution of jesus from zeus, but i support you a hundred per cent in your other proposition (highlighted) and i totally see how greek zeus and latin deus (older variant divus from phoenician div, from sanskrit devah) are the same term for an uber being)..it neither case this term refers to the supreme being which would be brahma in hindu patheon…for example….i think that it is fair to assume that when dues, div, zeus, devah is mentioned, it is to mean: one of the super beings and in that sense its use originally stems from polytheism/pagan traditions…the church subsequently gave it a different connotation like we know…

greek influenced most eauropean languages , neither good nor bad just a fact… also a fact that greek corrupted a huge number of terms/words originating in sanskrit…partly because it does not differentiate successfully between some consonants….

:yu: l

Beren

26th May 2010, 10:54

Beren,

First, I never said, or even thought, anything negative about Greybeard, and, sorry, I don't know any person nicknamed "Dan" here and thus coudn't say anything at all about him.

Also, I've never said I "believe in Jesus". I don't "believe" in anything. Like Greybeard, I prefer knowing to believeing. I like Jesus and his message as I perceive them, but for me he is a generic personage, a hero in a series of highly educative novels, nothing more.

I do respect the Bible as a historical document to study, but not as a "word of God" to follow blindly. As I wrote many times here, I definitely reject Biblical idea of God as a king and creator, and of the human race as his creation and sheep.

Being adversaries doesn't exclude respect. I consider you an adversary, not an enemy, so I have no reasons to disrespect you. At the same time, it is hard not to see that what you promote in your posts is exactly what the New Age philosophy is based upon. Seeing your irrefutable competence in religions, I can't believe you're doing it unwittingly. If you admitted it, there would be no reason to call it "infiltration", but you are denying it. Even in the above message you say you "do not belong to any religion", that "new age is a ... suitable lie", all while promoting and advocating the key elements of both religion and the New Age doctrine in your other posts. This is exactly how Mme Blavatsky and her followers proceeded, and how modern evangelists proceed. They start with rejecting and criticizing a concept in general and then, surreptitiously and gradually, one by one, introduce the key elements of the same concept, so that it will take final form already in the listeners' heads, as their own idea. In this thread you've started by agreeing with the author of the initial post, and then, almost immediately, passed to your own topic, thus taking the discussion away from its original subject. Sorry, but the Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "infiltration", and those doing it "infiltrators". It's in this, "dictionary" sense that I used this word, with no allusions to CIA, KGB or other "bad guys".

As for the Dot Connector... You certainly know the game this expression comes from. Contrary to a puzzle, the idea in this game is not to connect all available dots, but to choose only those that will result in a picture. All other dots are there just to make this task more difficult. Connecting them all, without selecting ones and rejecting others, would result in a dense and formless grid, not in a clear picture. And since there's no one but me in the magazine, I'm alone to make the selection. :)

Ok, I understand your point and disagree with some of your words ,but that's normal in conversation.
Regarding infiltration ;
I wrote about new age and its infiltration from spirits
I wrote their purpose
I explained wider contex and...

I was said to stay on the topic???

I do not understand how much more can we be on the topic than discussing about this.
IT IS the main reason of infiltration from evil spirits and if you saw in videos that Stardust posted ,you would see.

New age is new thought in 20 century ,heavily infiltrated from all sides.

New age stuff is borrowing ideal from many movements and blending it in.

You can not speak about all this unless you invoke all facts since view is not narrow.
Ans as for patterns you wrote about from Blavatsky and others ... simply do not work for me. Analyzing this or that without grasping at whole picture will not lead you to anywhere.
Oxford definitions also would not lead you anywhere.
If can not grasp at big picture , I am afraid you do not realize where are we as human race.
Sure , you can elaborate and eloquently describe all that you do here and you can have magazine (BTW I appreciate your effort about exposing stuff), you can quote many writers, you can post you tube videos you can do a lot.

But it will not change a thing.
Big picture is carrying strong impact on people and many choose to deliberately stay blind because they get afraid what they see,hence you got so many theories about this and that and what is going on.
As you know lie is different on every level for one who do not seek truth genuinely.

greybeard

26th May 2010, 11:11

Dr Hawkins in Power vs Force fully addresses this subject and offers the solution. He actively consults with open minded people who have an ability to make a difference. Change for the better is happening.
C

K626

26th May 2010, 11:56

hi Star
I agree with you totally about religious wars and what is happening in America through mind control.
Please check what I have written on ego thread recently it gets to the heart of the infiltration matter as I see it.
Im not saying my perspective is correct but it worthy of a visit and your comment there.
It is about information.
The problem is massive and not just related to new Age its every segment of our life.
Respectfully Chris

They are aware of the fact that the 'other side of the battery' ie us, is partially programmed for mind control. In other words we enjoy feeling and thinking similar things to others who we like or trust or identify with in other ways. The subliminal manipulation of this data stream that we connect with by default is the real key to mind control, the fact is that we are rather hard wired to be suseptible to it...In the sense we feel safer with standardised opinions. It takes a lot of willpower and infact learning to live with being wrong (as perceived by others) to get to a position to get a clear view. Unfortunately the vast majority have a negative affect on the like minded people one might find on a site like Avalon, we are not only resisting the manipulation of the powers that be, but we are also having to resist the amplification of these themes by the masses.

Klove.

lightblue

26th May 2010, 11:59

Re: The infiltration of the New Age Movement and Andrija Puharich

Dr Hawkins in Power vs Force fully addresses this subject and offers the solution. He actively consults with open minded people who have an ability to make a difference. Change for the better is happening.
C

hi grey
i know you mean well
but just like stardust, i am weary of the outside solution offerings..

maybe you should start a new: dr hawkigs thread..

kind regards l

post update

by the way, i am averse to dr hawkings's theory on how slaughter houses actually help the evolution of cows's souls - as he put it - the cows don't care, they just continue walking/existing in their etheric bodies...so that the oblivious double burger eaters don't have to think twice before tucking into their happy meal...l

greybeard

26th May 2010, 12:10

hi grey
i know you mean well
but just like stardust, i am weary of the outside solution offerings..

maybe you should start a new: dr hawkigs thread..

kind regards l

Thanks lightblue
Whats your insider solution?
How will it be implemented?
What does it entail?

Im open minded.
Regards Chris
ps my solution is internal.

Beren

26th May 2010, 12:12

we are not only resisting the manipulation of the powers that be, but we are also having to resist the amplification of these themes by the masses.

Klove.

This is an excellent observation!

Reason for this heated debate on this thread is that PTB are under control of evil spirit entities. Spirits had unlocked some technologies and knowledge to PTB and now they blindly follow them.
Wish of evil spirits is total slavery of man.

Under their leadership ,PTB developed dozens upon dozens mind control techniques ,it's enough to turn on the TV and you're on!
Level upon level of control is upon us.
If you breach one level , there comes another to fight on.

That's why this whole situation is alike rooting out the weed.
Weed is in this case evil spirits.

The one who do not see this ,simply do not know the facts!
Stardust posted videos where new agers speak of this and spirits and entities who controlled them.

Deception invoked powerful spirits for PTB ...

Here lies root of the problem- how to block evil entities from their influence over us?
They influence over PTB and their media,school,governments.

Every pore of the society on earth is infected.

I already wrote what is the only cure for blocking entities but... I get the feeling if I mention once more Christ that I will be stoned here.
But at the end I can not and will not force anyone to anything, they must find the truth for themselves.
And there is no my or your truth- the truth is only one.

Evil Spirits knows that, Christ knows that, many knows that- do WE know that?
Or we wander around quarreling?

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 12:31

They are aware of the fact that the 'other side of the battery' ie us, is partially programmed for mind control. In other words we enjoy feeling and thinking similar things to others who we like or trust or identify with in other ways. The subliminal manipulation of this data stream that we connect with by default is the real key to mind control, the fact is that we are rather hard wired to be suseptible to it...In the sense we feel safer with standardised opinions. It takes a lot of willpower and infact learning to live with being wrong (as perceived by others) to get to a position to get a clear view. Unfortunately the vast majority have a negative affect on the like minded people one might find on a site like Avalon, we are not only resisting the manipulation of the powers that be, but we are also having to resist the amplification of these themes by the masses.

Klove.

K you are always on the crux! and you are right. We are trained as babies to: love=reward, so seeking others to agree with us means "being loved". It is mind control no doubt

:wave:

lightblue

26th May 2010, 12:35

Thanks lightblue
Whats your insider solution?
How will it be implemented?
What does it entail?

Im open minded.
Regards Chris
ps my solution is internal.

be a master of you own selfness - though i don't like to instruct.

my "re-solution" is not likely to be alike yours or ayone's...truth is a lonely place where you walk alone...myself, i rely on my good eye and good ear - i don't expect you to follow..

best wishes l

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 12:44

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 12:56

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 13:08

greybeard

26th May 2010, 13:11

be a master of you own selfness - though i don't like to instruct.

my "re-solution" is not likely to be alike yours or ayone's...truth is a lonely place where you walk alone...myself, i rely on my good eye and good ear - i don't expect you to follow..

best wishes l

Yes I agree totaly and I have been saying that the answer is in ones own hands and it is internal.
I am as free as it gets. I acknowledge and respect the teachers that came and went. I put no head above my own.
Its all down to personal perception.
There is no enemy out there for me.
However I do respect that others see an enemy and I post from that perspective at times.
Having overcome the misery of alcoholism with the help of AA, I dont like to see others suffer for any reason therefore I try to share what worked for me and got my life in order. My life in order then the world comes into order.
Most cant see that, its all ways something external. The cause and solution lies in my attitude and therefore the way I treat the world I encounter.
Regards Chris

K626

26th May 2010, 13:37

This is an excellent observation!

Reason for this heated debate on this thread is that PTB are under control of evil spirit entities. Spirits had unlocked some technologies and knowledge to PTB and now they blindly follow them.
Wish of evil spirits is total slavery of man.

Under their leadership ,PTB developed dozens upon dozens mind control techniques ,it's enough to turn on the TV and you're on!
Level upon level of control is upon us.
If you breach one level , there comes another to fight on.

That's why this whole situation is alike rooting out the weed.
Weed is in this case evil spirits.

The one who do not see this ,simply do not know the facts!
Stardust posted videos where new agers speak of this and spirits and entities who controlled them.

Deception invoked powerful spirits for PTB ...

Here lies root of the problem- how to block evil entities from their influence over us?
They influence over PTB and their media,school,governments.

Every pore of the society on earth is infected.

I already wrote what is the only cure for blocking entities but... I get the feeling if I mention once more Christ that I will be stoned here.
But at the end I can not and will not force anyone to anything, they must find the truth for themselves.
And there is no my or your truth- the truth is only one.

Evil Spirits knows that, Christ knows that, many knows that- do WE know that?
Or we wander around quarreling?

Create, manifest and feel your love and seek moments when you can be one with all. Project your desires and thoughts in such a manner that words become useless.

Klove

¤=[Post Update]=¤

K you are always on the crux! and you are right. We are trained as babies to: love=reward, so seeking others to agree with us means "being loved". It is mind control no doubt

:wave:

Thanks. :o

I believe everyday we have a chance to change everything. :tea:

frank samuel

26th May 2010, 14:00

For me mind control is part of history, this happens through indoctrination. I'll give you an example if my 1 year old daughter is jumping on the bed and I don't want the child to jump in the bed you can yell and tell the child, "No!!! ,THAT'S BAD !!!", do this every time they jump in the bed pretty soon the child associates jumping in bed as something bad to do, so we as parents limit the potential and creativity of our children unconsciously creating negative scenarios, then comes the entertainment industry, school, on and on. Through conditioning we loose our ability to trust our own intuition instead become willing participants of this chaos. Yes for me the industrial revolution has created many negative side effects, economic slavery is a form of mind control, the internet serves as a form of mind control, on and on. You don't have to look too far to know we all have been condition to have a limited perspective, just the way we identify ourselves , Americans, Europeans, etc. reinforce by laws and political institutions, all a form of slavery.You can choose to go with the flow or make your own way, regain your sovereignty. Each one of us has unlimited potential creativity and imagination to get out of the rut if you will, my motto in this case will be, "free your mind and heart".

Many blessings to all...:wub:

thedot

26th May 2010, 14:47

I wrote about new age and its infiltration from spirits
...
New age is new thought in 20 century ,heavily infiltrated from all sides.
.

Beren, This is exactly the main point! Tell me if I'm wrong and that's not what you mean, but for me, what you say (roughly) is: "New Age was originally a good thing, a 'new thought in 20 century', which was later heavily infiltrated from all sides by evil spirits and other bad guys."

What I say is that the New Age has never been "infiltrated" by evil forces - it was created by them!

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 14:54

What I say is that the New Age has never been "infiltrated" by evil forces - it was created by them!

Thedot I agree with your conclusion. The more I research the matter the more evidence I find that it is a creation of those that wanted to prevent people from looking deeper. TPTB have done a good job at sending most of us into dead roads for many years. I wonder what they will do now that the cat is out of the bag!

Beren

26th May 2010, 15:09

Beren, This is exactly the main point! Tell me if I'm wrong and that's not what you mean, but for me, what you say (roughly) is: "New Age was originally a good thing, a 'new thought in 20 century', which was later heavily infiltrated from all sides by evil spirits and other bad guys."

What I say is that the New Age has never been "infiltrated" by evil forces - it was created by them!

Well
Thedot, with this I agree 100%.

Remember one of the guys from video when he said that some of the spirits were cloaking as light but at the end all they wished is to enslave you and suck up your time and energy!

Again 2000 years ago it was written : "... And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Satan is actually not red horned demon with a fork or whatever people think of it. Evil spirit it is that inspire people to do wicked things and pursue evil.
And particularly it is his fashion to cloak in light to lure souls.

Here we are dealing with enemy that is very tough and dangerous since we can not see it. It's like wizard with many faces and slippery snake. As soon as you think you nailed it, it just transforms into otehr thing which suits it best in order to escape and later struck you when you least expect it.
Many cloaks,many philosophies,many masks but the STENCH of evil is not easily removed.

It can be dealt with. But we can not fight it with its weapon...

Celine

26th May 2010, 15:21

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 15:31

A fight of the ages...

Do we truly think we can bring resolution to this?

New Age... Christianity...whatever the titles...these forces have been "battling" for so long...its getting old and We are getting bored and fed up.

Dear Celine

We are living in priviledged times, if we were talking about these things publicly before we would have been excomunicate or burned on the stake...which make me think what is tptb up to....

The solution from my perspective is to question everything and to differenciate between what we know for certain and what we believe and has been handed over to us by people we don't know. Determining the source of the information is paramount after all history has been written by the victors and so it is only half true...

The only thing that can not be denied and manipulated is what we know by direct experience. The truth is inside each of us, it is eternal and does not need to talk!

:love:

greybeard

26th May 2010, 15:37

Thedot I agree with your conclusion. The more I research the matter the more evidence I find that it is a creation of those that wanted to prevent people from looking deeper. TPTB have done a good job at sending most of us into dead roads for many years. I wonder what they will do now that the cat is out of the bag!

I said as much on the ego thread but perhaps you dident look.
I also said new age ahas just about run out of steam, my kids no nothing of it
The current method of delivery of controlling is video killer games, terror movies, gangster rap, media, news fear driven, channeling.
Universities relativism led. Markism in disguise.
No human has the power to over come this, there is too much of it.
It is orchestrated as I have said by the lower astral. Astral travel at your own risk.

I will get shot at again for this, I follow no one but Dr David Hawkins joined the dots beautifully for me.
We are on a forum dedicated to the community and if people can talk about being rescued by UFOs repeatedly I dont see why I cant mention some one who is making a real difference in this world now to overcome the effect of the things being mentioned on this thread and elsewhere on this forum
The forum was set up with the express intention of sharing information that would help the human race survive.
That is why I share what I share.
Im personally ok but im not sitting on a bench say im ok Jack. I invest time here in the hope that it will help.
Ch

frank samuel

26th May 2010, 15:51

Well Celine is good to think our ideas are new, even do no one here wants to identify themselves with the new age. Put a title in front, then just say is bad , your brain and childhood memories through our conditioning will automatically repeat it, it does not take much effort. The old saying goes, " the more things change the more they stay the same".The problem is that no one wants to admit we are all part of a mind control global lab experiment. Hey Celine thank you for your honesty, you make me laugh and that's GOOD. Okay time to go outside and play with the dogs, stay Scoobie, roll over. I wonder if my dog has been condition too.:drum: Sorry folks could not resists no offense to anyone.

Blessings to all....:grouphug::crazy_pilot::wub:

Celine

26th May 2010, 16:08

I agree greybeard...new age is not a tool anymore for the ones with negative agendas..but the electronic world is.

New age has become the cyber age.

Since the 90's we have watched the infiltration ...disinformation has once again become their sword...

Our children are programmed ...and the worst thing is they seem to accept it willingly.

So how do we combat dis information that is being gobbled up like starving souls in a desert of knowledge?

accept all... love all.

Truth is inconsequential now...the playing field no longer bows to truth.

Again...a hard pill to swallow for some

greybeard

26th May 2010, 16:16

Celine

26th May 2010, 16:21

Great analogy ..

Let go of the rope...and dance!

This is why the ptb's are threatened by forums like PA...

They can see the true love and understanding mingling between us..

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 16:25

Truth is inconsequential now...the playing field no longer bows to truth

I personally think that truth is paramount and I will not give up for that will be to give in. Probabilities can still change, the future is not set in stone and there is still a chance for humanity. Whether humanity will listen it is not possible to predict but we are almost at the cross roads and until that day I will still try

Celine

26th May 2010, 16:28

Submitting...does not equate weakness.

Standing still does not equate no action.

We need to look "outside the box"

These probelms we face are unconventional and require
unconventional solutions

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 16:41

Celine

26th May 2010, 16:44

"Who is it? It's not the Church"

Yes...who?

could it be...us? them?

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 16:49

We need to look "outside the box"

These probelms we face are unconventional and require
unconventional solutions

I agree with that and that is exactly what I am doing with a bunch of other people (nothing to do with PA)

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 17:06

"Who is it? It's not the Church"

Yes...who?

could it be...us? them?

is it you céline... is it you all along lol

it's an octopus organization

Moxie

26th May 2010, 17:07

The church is not a Who, people are. Every time you go to a church, you are supporting the institution, not other people, giving them your permission to continue. I know of pastors & priests who confess they know they are teaching lies but continue anyway (believe it or not!).

Every time you buy a fake lime aid at the Sonic (or stop n rob) you give Your permission to continue to produce it, it's as simple as that. Your money talks.

I say you must throw out the baby with the bath water. If you do not agree with dogma that is taught but continue to support it by finding bits n pcs of what "resonates" (I'm beginning to dislike that word), you are still supporting it.

Religions have not worked because they are fundamentally divisive..Any dogma, my gawd is better than your god.

I agree that the New Age was a creation at the get go and the premise is confusion now, that is the Only good that has come of all this confusion....for EveryOne to Ask "how do I know what is true"?
for you to go inward (everybody has an inward) and tap that "unsuspected" inner resource, stop supporting that which divides, that which is false (including the food chain).... just Stop it, stop "buying" literally or figuratively ANYthing that you know harms.

Celine

26th May 2010, 17:08

Octo?

8?

you think that is enough?

Star..

What you, and others, are doing outside this forum, is the reason we are here.

Forums are the magnet...people are the foundation...

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 17:46

Every time you go to a church, you are supporting the institution, not other people, giving them your permission to continue.

can we have an advanced functional society without organizations and institutions

as it is the top Masons own the State the media the education and is promoting ancient paganism

the Church is infiltrated too and divided from the top down

while we look within - we are being circled in

and when we snap out of it - the ones alive might have to choose for or against paganism

the early Christians were killed for not denouncing Jesus and accepting Zeus

but you might make it - since you already accept the Masonic lies about Jesus the Bible and the Church

truthseekerdan

26th May 2010, 17:47

I personally think that truth is paramount and I will not give up for that will be to give in. Probabilities can still change, the future is not set in stone and there is still a chance for humanity. Whether humanity will listen it is not possible to predict but we are almost at the cross roads and until that day I will still try

Star*, and if you want to change the future with the same mentality imposed by the "elite" (an eye for an eye), I'm afraid nothing will change, but make it worse. Has been tried in the past, and look at the results... We need to change our "reptilian mentality", and "fight back" with the weapon they're most afraid off -- Pure Unconditional Love! This will cancel (annihilate) the fear and hatred energy that "they feed on". JMHO

http://www.postersforthesoul.com/images/64days_larger_poster5.jpg

Love is the answer,

Dan

greybeard

26th May 2010, 17:59

Pasted from the infamous ego thread
"

Im only concerned with root cause.

For example you can put weed killer on a weed but unless the roots are dealt with the problem will reappear.

So what is the purpose of the infiltrating, influencing, disinformation, confusing, creating fear. controlling that does go on?

The answer simply is to prevent the raising of consciousness.

The higher consciousness is completely free of fear, wants, desires, agenda, therefore it cant be controlled.

Its a vanity to thing mere man has the power to eradicate that spawned by the lower astral.
Its been tried and tried and tried.

Respecting your intention Star but Im sorry I thing your naive and that naivety keeps the human race imprisoned and controlled.
Im free and you can be too.
Regards Chris

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 18:02

Star*, and if you want to change the future with the same mentality imposed by the "elite" (an eye for an eye), I'm afraid nothing will change, but make it worse. Has been tried in the past, and look at the results... We need to change our "reptilian mentality", and "fight back" with the weapon they're most afraid off -- Pure Unconditional Love! This will cancel (annihilate) the fear and hatred energy that "they feed on". JMHO

http://www.postersforthesoul.com/images/64days_larger_poster5.jpg

Love is the answer,

Dan

Dan, you don't know what I am doing so why assume that it is an eye for an eye. In any case you can not defeat sorcery with bullets and that is a fact!

I don't believe in the NA "love it enough and it will heal" we are talking about beings that are very focus, very intelligent, very knowlegeable and interdimensional, beings that can not feel love cos they have no emotional body. Love has not worked in the past and it is not going to work now I tell you, nor hate or fear cos they live of it

:wave:

truthseekerdan

26th May 2010, 18:07

Respecting your intention Star but Im sorry I thing your naive and that naivety keeps the human race imprisoned and controlled.
Im free and you can be too.
Regards Chris

Unfortunately, I tend to agree with you on this one Chris. Sorry stardust...:(

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 18:09

So what is the purpose of the infiltrating, influencing, disinformation, confusing, creating fear. controlling that does go on?

The answer simply is to prevent the raising of consciousness.

and this nasty physical byproduct of killing us too

they can't kill the Soul but they can control and claim it

truthseekerdan

26th May 2010, 18:11

Dan, you don't know what I am doing so why assume that it is an eye for an eye.

:wave:

I don't need to know what you're doing, but it's apparent to at least a few that you're "listening" to your "adversary" (should we call it EGO?) :wave:

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 18:13

Respecting your intention Star but Im sorry I thing your naive and that naivety keeps the human race imprisoned and controlled.
Im free and you can be too.

Chris with all due respect I don't understand what you are talking about. I think lack of knowledge is what keeps humanity imprisoned and controlled and also apathy to do what can be done which is a lot, like analyzing where our beliefs are coming from so we can be free from programing, buying fair trade, boycotting BP until they fix the spill etc

We can shape the world with our wallet and also by being inmune to programing. That does not mean that we should sit on a bench and wait for the day of our passing

I don't think you have the answer and I don't think being passive works, that is exactly what the programing of the new age has created! People say "its their karma" and do nothing, they are happy to smell the flowers when the planet is gutted. Well I care, and I am doing my bit. Amongs other things I am raising awareness by talking about the deception of the new age and other subjects

And now :focus:

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 18:17

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 18:22

For example, things that you can do to overcome mind controll

Don't support Hellywood

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Nhz6P2TmYJg&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Nhz6P2TmYJg&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Or their merchadising and music

Don't buy glossy magazines

Don't support sports

Don't watch TV

Buy what you need only

Don't follow fashiong

Don't redecorate your house if it does not need it

Consider you house your home not your investment

Grown vegetables

Walk

Please add your constructive and legal suggestions

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 18:30

I don't need to know what you're doing, but it's apparent to at least a few that you're "listening" to your "adversary" (should we call it EGO?) :wave:

I don't have adversaries, my EGO is part of me and we are healing together. I don't have to hate parts of myself and I don't need to turn a blind eye to the state of the world. It is called engaged detachment. I listen, I see, I direct my energies cosncioussly to created effective resoults, I care...

RedeZra

26th May 2010, 18:34

Please add your constructive and legal suggestions

go to church lol

pray

read the good Book

never hurt

have fun

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 19:03

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 19:26

greybeard

26th May 2010, 19:45

the lower astral controls through ego.
You are not your ego.
You are conned into believing it, that you would die with out it.
All that is creative and good comes from your Higher Self.
All that is destructive comes from lower self ego.
All wars fought because of egoic wants needs and desires.
You have, I want, I will get it no matter what.
I fear you therefore I kill you.
All egoic

The lower astral loves the ego it controls this world through it.

Meglomaniacs have enormous egos they are responsible for the death of millions

Megalomania (from the Greek word μεγαλομανία) is a historical term for behavior characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, genius, or omnipotence - often generally termed as delusions of grandeur or grandiose delusions. It's a Greek word ,"megalo" meaning "very large", "great", or "exaggerated" and "mania" meaning obsession thus combining to denote an obsession with, either in the form of irrational perceived need for or preoccupation with in one's own estimation having and/or obtaining, grandiosity and extravagance (especially in the form of great fame and popularity, material wealth, social influence or political power, or more than one or even all of the aforesaid) and accompanying complete desirous and bombastic abandon; a common symptom if not the key diagnostic feature of megalomania. It may be a symptom of manic or paranoid disorders. However it is not considered a distinct mental disorder of itself according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Star I support this thread and your intention and my posts are in essence with your desire to create a better world free of control.

Spirituality is much understood.
Unconditional love is not naive it uses discernment it does not condone, it can be tough love.
It is not flower power, roses, the silly stuff.
It takes right action, appropriate and effective action, directed by higher self not ego which always has an agenda.

Gandhi freed India without firing a shot. Nelson Mandela came out of prison and calmed a troubled Africa.
We need more of that caliber -- they are high energy beings.

Like Star I use my money wisely, many are doing this, why? Because consciousness is rising.
People are becoming more aware of the needs of others.
Selfishness is declining.
Compassion is becoming common.
People are becoming aware in many ways and what was once acceptable is no longer acceptable.

Every single being raising its consciousness makes it easier for others to be free of the lower energy forces.
It is happening.
This is my experience.
I feel energy I am aware of energy.
Its happening.
Celine knows so do others.
Christ consciousness is here and affecting many.
Nothing what so ever to do with religion groups or any other.
It is the individual self that this is happening through.
Regards Chris

stardustaquarion

26th May 2010, 20:07

Hi Chris, while I agree with most of what you say, I disagree with your perspective regarding the ego. My perspective is that the EGO is the program that runs the DNA and it can be changed, it is not controled by astral entities but people that do not have awareness of their auric fields can be tagged by astral entities. Astral tagging is comon in mediums, channelers, people that take drugs or get drunk but it can happen to anyone. But rather than entering into a debate about the ego, that you have transfered from your thread to mine regardless that I have ask you not to and is :offtopic:, I am going to agree to disagree and leave it there.

I will appreciate that you keep to topic and leave the ego thing for your debate in your thread. Thank you

Going :focus: I agree that there are awake people in avalon but, for the rest of the world, and provided you have watched the videos I posted, I don't know where are you getting your statistic. I am not so optimistic about the awakening of the people

Once thing I can say is that there is going to be a rude awakening this summer for many when they are taken to the FEMA camps as they are evacuated from the USG because of the hurricans. I just read the latest Webbot and if a quarter of what it says comes to pass....well....whatever awakening is there will be thwarted by the need to survive....no wonder tptb are so smug

truthseekerdan

26th May 2010, 20:16

I don't have adversaries, my EGO is part of me and we are healing together. I don't have to hate parts of myself and I don't need to turn a blind eye to the state of the world. It is called engaged detachment. I listen, I see, I direct my energies cosncioussly to created effective resoults, I care...

Catchy signature you have there stardust. :confused:
Since I assume you know that everything (all) are parts (fragments) of the Source, my question to you is: Don't you want to BE a "reflection" of your Source?

God = Source = Unconditional Love

EGO = Edge God Out = Fallen Consciousness (is not really part of yourself... or is it?) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=17666&viewfull=1#post17666)

Not giving up on you, :wub:

Dan

Wood

27th May 2010, 00:43

I do think new age has been infiltrated, same as most aspects of our current societies. Also, I find the ego discussion to be relevant here: all the calls to act, to be busy getting knowledge, to want things, to need things, to fear things (like not being right or not knowing what is going on), etc. are ways to feed our egos and to keep us busy living in the old ways of fear and polarity/individuality. No real change is coming from old ways, even when they are well meant because they can easily be perverted and controlled after the initial push (e.g. the hippies). I agree with greybeard that awakening to our higher selves implies losing needs and desires, and becoming loving, respectful beings that care for the others (to not harm them with out acts). We are mind controlled through our acts, IMO. By acting we get involved in this reality, and we get divided in groups. The only way out, I think, is to stop acting as much as possible (in particular, of course, to stop acting in negative ways).

Sorry if I can't express myself more clearly, I am just recently getting all these insights and they are still not clear thoughts, but intuitions getting now stronger and confirming long-held, deep beliefs.

truthseekerdan

27th May 2010, 04:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4XxMVH9hmk&NR=1

stardustaquarion

27th May 2010, 08:59

Catchy signature you have there stardust. :confused:
Since I assume you know that everything (all) are parts (fragments) of the Source, my question to you is: Don't you want to BE a "reflection" of your Source?

God = Source = Unconditional Love

EGO = Edge God Out = Fallen Consciousness (is not really part of yourself... or is it?) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=17666&viewfull=1#post17666)

Not giving up on you, :wub:

Dan

Hi Dan, here is were my ideas and those of the new age movement depart. All was created by source right? So even if it is reversed or fallen is still source right? I can not heal the rest of the world but I can heal those parts of myself that are not in aligment with source. This is not and if, it is my direct experience that by accepting those parts of ourselves that are miss aligned we can get to be stronger by unifiying and healing all the bits of our selves

To say that those that have chosen the path of opposite expresion are not source (god) implies that source can lose parts of itself, that source (god) can die. So from my perspective, which is a very ancient perspective too, all is within source: the good, the bad and the ugly. Nothing gets lost

The difference is that if one is to align with the natural principles of the cosmos, or cosmic laws, one has the opportunity of frequency acreetion or expansion. If one does the opposite, one loses frequency and eventually dies and implodes. We have been doing a lot of dieing in this planet and that is a tell tell sign that the miss aligment may be rather severe or even terminal, the evidence is out there all around us

There is nothing to hate within ourselves, it is all good, it is all source. It may be miss aligned but that can be corrected by appliying the right attitudes.

Now I accept that Source is unconditional love provided that unconditional love means life force which is my personal understanding of love, not the co-dependancy version

Thank you for caring but I am self responsible and self motivated

stardustaquarion

27th May 2010, 09:11

CONCLUSIONS

Thank you once again to all of you for your contributions!

It seems that the New Age movement was infiltrated from the word go. Which implies that most of the literature, systems of personal growth, channelings, etc may be of dubious origin and requires a great deal of discerment

The tools they use are many and the most dangerous in my oppinion is seduction into complacency by trauma. That way they keep us sitting in front of the media resources and idle

ANTIDOTE

- Question everything! and question again
- Become Self responsible and stop hoping that someone will clean up your own or planetary mess. We have been deceived into inaction and oblivion

And now one final message with their methods

message violence message violence message violence message = get it?

:closed_2: :laser: :closed_2: :moony: :closed_2: :fencing: :closed_2:

stardustaquarion

27th May 2010, 09:13

http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/thatsallfolks.jpg

http://x81.xanga.com/fcdc816664235177377553/z132391786.jpg

:wave:

Gita

27th May 2010, 09:16

Great thread Stardust and great conclusion.:thumb:

:wave::wave:

greybeard

27th May 2010, 09:41

Hi Dan, here is were my ideas and those of the new age movement depart. All was created by source right? So even if it is reversed or fallen is still source right? I can not heal the rest of the world but I can heal those parts of myself that are not in aligment with source. This is not and if, it is my direct experience that by accepting those parts of ourselves that are miss aligned we can get to be stronger by unifiying and healing all the bits of our selves

To say that those that have chosen the path of opposite expresion are not source (god) implies that source can lose parts of itself, that source (god) can die. So from my perspective, which is a very ancient perspective too, all is within source: the good, the bad and the ugly. Nothing gets lost

The difference is that if one is to align with the natural principles of the cosmos, or cosmic laws, one has the opportunity of frequency acreetion or expansion. If one does the opposite, one loses frequency and eventually dies and implodes. We have been doing a lot of dieing in this planet and that is a tell tell sign that the miss aligment may be rather severe or even terminal, the evidence is out there all around us

There is nothing to hate within ourselves, it is all good, it is all source. It may be miss aligned but that can be corrected by appliying the right attitudes.

Now I accept that Source is unconditional love provided that unconditional love means life force which is my personal understanding of love, not the co-dependancy version

Thank you for caring but I am self responsible and self motivated

Whilst perhaps I am of topic again.
Yogananda said "The darkness comes from the same place as the light".
I believe that.
Everything that happens is perfection because it gives a chance to choose whole some or other wise.
Hitler is an extreme example but many chose prayer forgiveness and therefor befitted from his actions.
I tend not to judge, as how do I know what is helpful or otherwise?
Nothing is right nor wrong till thinking makes it so
I only share what I find helpful to me.
You are so right in saying it is down to attitude and intention I add.
God for me is unconditional love and is life force. The ultimate expression of God does not need prayer or worship or co-dependence, It just radiates the energy of love
I enjoy praying with gratitude for life but thats for me to affirm my attitude and keep it strong.
Regards Chris

stardustaquarion

27th May 2010, 09:48

Great thread Stardust and great conclusion.:thumb:

:wave::wave:

Thank you Gita :wave:

greybeard

27th May 2010, 10:18

Thank you also Stardust for the thread.
We might see things a little differently but the heart in essence is the same---compassion.
With Love for you and all fellow contributor to this excellent thread.
Chris

Wood

27th May 2010, 10:46

stardustaquarion

27th May 2010, 11:04

Hi Wood, I think is a great idea that people post their own conclusion with regard to the infiltration of the new age movement, what I meant is that for me I done all that I can and the message has got across and the thread started to go in circles.

How we tackle the fact that all types of knowledge might have been infiltrated it is a personal thing. I don't want to discourage anyone from doing their own research. Instead what I wanted to convey is that discerment and a questioning mind, specially with regards to the origin of phylosophies, is paramount so we are not guided towards cults to which we did not have any intention to belong

:wave:

Celine

27th May 2010, 11:04

Great post Wood...i agree 98% of it.

May i say...

You seem a little cynical. i doubt this thread will get closed, Star is a great host as you mentioned. He is polite and has a way a redirecting the topic that is appreciated by the other members.

As for my conclusions...

Stop playing the game.

Stop seeking answers to unanswerable questions.

Stop being a slave...and submit to who you truly are.

Gita

27th May 2010, 11:09

Celine, Stardust is one of us! She's a girl! :laugh:

Celine

27th May 2010, 11:16

Gender is so irrelevant online. lol

My apologies Star.

Thank you Gita

Wood

27th May 2010, 11:23

I don't want to discourage anyone from doing their own research. Instead what I wanted to convey is that discerment and a questioning mind, specially with regards to the origin of phylosophies, is paramount so we are not guided towards cults to which we did not have any intention to belong

I agree with that :)
I have not read a single New Age book in my life. I have been drawn to this subjects just a few months ago, and I have read/watched some of the material found in this forum and in other places. I have changed a lot though, so I conclude there is something enabling the change. I just want to say to people in my situation that I think there is no need to research a lot but to develop the intuition through some (simple) meditation. I believe it is easy nowadays (as if a veil is being lifted) and that the intuition will guide people to the right answers, not ego/intellect.

You seem a little cynical. i doubt this thread will get closed, Star is a great host as you mentioned. He is polite and has a way a redirecting the topic that is appreciated by the other members.

From the previous posts ("that's all folks") I was under the impression that the thread was meant to be left to die. I agree my reply could have been a little cynical and I apologise for that as it is something I want to get rid of :)

greybeard

27th May 2010, 11:24

Thank you for this discussion you have hosted, stardustaquarion. I have found it very interesting. Before it is closed, however, I would like to read about the conclusions of other participants as well!

Here are my own views. I agree that New Age has been infiltrated. I think we are being feed lots of information/disinformation to saturate us, both on the mainstream media and on alternative fields like New Age. This serves, IMO, a number of purposes:
* it adds noise to the bits of truth
* it creates insecurity and the need to know more
* it distracts us
* it keeps us busy
* it urges us to act in conflicting ways (divide & conquer)
* it makes us believe the truth is out there (and not inside us)

I think the 'antidote' is to stop playing the game. As David Icke says in the 'Human Race Get Off Your Knees' interview, once we stop playing the game this reality will fall by itself. No need for external saviours, we can stop all this nonsense by not endorsing it with our acts.

So, my view is that we need to trascend our reptilian, selfish ego and awake to a better world. I do not care whether we are being controlled by reptilians, other aliens, etc. We can't know that at this point and it is not really important. We can free ourselves from whatever is keeping us down in this world of confrontation, polarity and death by not acting on it anymore. It is up to us to awake, and all the information we need at this point is inside us, IMO. We have to stop and listen to our intuition.

Also, as a rule of thumb, I stay away from new age material that includes lots of made up, strange words. That kind of material is meant, IMO, to keep the reader busy reading more and more, and induce insecurity for not being able to get it right. If the intention is to transmit useful information the message will be clear and understanable, and our intuition will recognise it.

To other participants in the thread: please let us know about your conclusions.

Wood thank you for starting this end to the thread.
I agree with your conclusions.

Love and fear cant co-exist
We either harbour fear or host love
.
Everything is energy, we go tilling at windmills we expound energy, we use force to combat force we get an adrenalin high then we crash out drained and then.
lower consciouses pervades our very being, we are weakened and susceptible to be controlled by lower energy attractor fields. (negativity)

We use Power, we are coming from the same place as your signature.

Using Power we release endorphins in our brain we are relaxed we benefit all who come in contact with us we are uplifting spirits.

We are winning the game of life in that we are overcoming our own weakness by being positive.

I watched the David Icke video you mention.
He is saying what I have said repeatedly on this thread. Stop playing the game let go the rope.
We still have Illuminati because we feed them with our fear and desire to be rid of them

My conclusion is the same one I started from.
I am the change I want to see in the world.

I was given the advice.

"Find one enlightened teacher that resonates with you, study in depth one teaching, dont run here and there. When you have got it, another teacher will appear to move you on yet again, stay with that one, same will happen.
Put no head above your own."

I have done my best to follow that advice.
I fix me, I love me, my world comes right.

If the mind and intellect was capable of "preventing" war it would have happened long ago

Only the high energy of unconditional love is capable of bringing that about.
With Love
Chris

HORIZONS

27th May 2010, 13:10

Is there anything in the public domain that has not been infiltrated? It is not just the new age movement, but all things in the external world that have these traps and loops built within them - it is all part of the system of arrangement - this matrix game - and we, each and every individual, must find the inner strength to overcome and transcend this enslavement that we have been born into. In actually, this has been going on since the dawn of civilization in this epoch we live in today. My path may not be your path, but we can walk this road together if our goals are the same.
~Peace

OnyxKnight

27th May 2010, 13:16

The 9 = Disinformation Channeling aka Satellite Mind Control

Moxie

27th May 2010, 16:21

I do love the way that David Hawkins presents what is required
In order to even be deceived… that is, our basic Innocence, Awareness within Consciousness.

These are my own words unless you find something in quotations, which are Dr. Hawkins, quoted from Healing and Recovery.

If as a child, you were taught that blue is green, it was because of your state of innocence that you learned this. The innocence of consciousness itself.

That Innocence is still within you. You are Not the beliefs that you hold, you are not your thoughts, you are not your fears, You are not your body.

Dr Hawkins speaks on about how the physical body, all by itself, cannot know itself.
Your arm has no way of experiencing its armness. Sensations of the body are occurring in the mind which cannot experience itself either. A thought cannot experience its thoughtness without something even greater, consciousness. And ultimately it’s one’s awareness within consciousness that experiences everything.

If a part of your brain were cut out, or anesthetized, there is no consciousness to be aware of what is going on in that brain/mind. Consciousness is Higher than body or mind, but would you say that consciousness still exists even tho now that particular brain is not reporting anything? Yes, because not only is the body still breathing, but other people report what’s going on in their body. It’s the Awareness within Consciousness that is unavailable to that anesthetized brain… yet consciousness still exists, it’s simply not exclusively localized in that one brain.

The state of awareness, an aspect of a greater, powerful energy field behind consciousness is the energy of Life itself… the Source. That state of awareness is not restricted by commonly held beliefs. But commonly held beliefs do bring forth consequences that are experienced by conscious awareness in this existence through your brain & your physical body.

Quote: “We can compare the consciousness of the child [or adult] to the hardware of a computer, and the programming coming in from the social consciousness of the world itself is the software. We see that in the computer, the hardware, which is intrinsically innocent, is uncontaminated by the software.”

A person’s beliefs are likened to the software in the state of conscious awareness, the hardware, the permanent innocence. “It is the intrinsic innocence of one’s consciousness that is listening, reading, trying to tune itself in to what is real… innocence is unchanged…it never leaves”.

“The reaffirmation of our innocence consists of never buying that anything is ‘just’ ego; there is no such thing as ‘just’ ego. Ego, the software, social consciousness, and the programming have merely been superimposed on that which is not ego but on truth itself, consciousness itself. All spiritual crises come from context, meaning, and the way in which a thing is held.”

Certain levels of consciousness have painful consequences. Commonly held beliefs, whether religious, spiritual, political, medical, beliefs about your own nature … all bring forth consequences that include conflict & discord when practiced. Everything is brought up into awareness in order for conscious awareness itself to be recognized & experienced as being Innocent and above the beliefs that are being superimposed over it. We fail to recognize that beliefs are not truth because we‘ve not recognized the intrinsic nature of conscious awareness itself as the only Truth we can know. Consequences & outcomes tell you how close to Truth you are if & because Truth, (God) Innocence is free of guilt, shame, sin, evil, the definition of innocent, look it up.

Consider your software, your beliefs, what affiliations you have w/religions, politics, food choice, purchasing… what consequences arise out of those affiliations, are they for the good of all beings? Are they divisive or inclusive? Do they put you in the exclusive “in club”, you have found the truth while others are lost or deluded? What is the outcome of having many different religions, of claiming you have the True one? What is the outcome of having different political parties or the existing monetary system? What is the outcome of participating in any war, whether it’s the war on drugs, on cancer, on people? Is every one having a meal today or a roof over their head? In what ways are we Truly connected?

Where have the commonly held beliefs taken us? Perhaps “beliefs” are anesthetizing so that conscious awareness cannot get through.

The Truth is, we are all in this together. There is not one that is chosen over another. Nothing is lost ever. Any belief that tells you that some will go this way while others will go that way, is fundamentally flawed because it is by its nature divisive. It has to be if Truth is universal, unified. Conscious awareness, GodMind.

Hope this is not off topic on a thread that is being “closed”… I felt compelled to share this while it probably still needs more contemplation & editing.. and it’s been a couple of hours of contemplation for me this morning and I have to get on with my day. We have all recognized that we have been infiltrated w/erroneous beliefs maybe for the sole purpose of seeing this and ask as Stardust so often reminds us in her signature... and to question everything, examine ones' self ... right action is the one with the fewest choices that apply to all!