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Kulapops
28th May 2010, 10:04
Got this from JSMineset

All you need to know...

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K

Gita
28th May 2010, 10:25
Kula this is already posted on this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?339-Euro-will-collapse-Pig-States-to-bring-EU-down/page11) but I think it deserves a whole thread to itself. Sad state of affairs that everyone is so clueless and who can blame them?? None of it makes any sense – it’s so logically challanged!:laugh:

K626
28th May 2010, 10:26
Kula this is already posted on this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?339-Euro-will-collapse-Pig-States-to-bring-EU-down/page11) but I think it deserves a whole thread to itself. Sad state of affairs that everyone is so clueless and who can blame them?? None of it makes any sense – it’s so logically challanged!:laugh:

Capitalism has survived by borrowing from the future, that future has just run out. :cool:

Gita
28th May 2010, 10:31
Capitalism has survived by borrowing from the future, that future has just run out. :cool:

Well K they say nothing lasts forever!:laugh:

Kulapops
28th May 2010, 10:51
Thanks Gita.... Sorry for the doubling up... though I am proud I didn't know.. that would infer that I read more threads than I should....

Wait.. what's happening to me ? My feet are getting stuck in Avalon quicksand and I cannnn''tttt essscaaaaappppe !!!!

K

Luke
28th May 2010, 11:47
Capitalism has survived by borrowing from the future, that future has just run out. :cool:

Basically you're right, only that there was no capitalism in first place, apart from short episode in USofAfrom 1783 to 1861 that was relatively capitalist ..
Other than that it's "good" old oligarchy, with feudal lords posing as "industrialists" ... cmon, all of the "capitalists" live from government-sponsored programs ... maybe apart from Steve Jobs or Richard Branson, but even them use some form of china -delivered slave labour they are as much capitalist as medieval barons :P (down to the mentality)

K626
28th May 2010, 12:13
Basically you're right, only that there was no capitalism in first place, apart from short episode in USofAfrom 1783 to 1861 that was relatively capitalist ..
Other than that it's "good" old oligarchy, with feudal lords posing as "industrialists" ... cmon, all of the "capitalists" live from government-sponsored programs ... maybe apart from Steve Jobs or Richard Branson, but even them use some form of china -delivered slave labour they are as much capitalist as medieval barons :P (down to the mentality)

Tell me more.

K

Wood
28th May 2010, 14:08
To be fair there is a way to solve the issue, a way USA has been using for a long time to pay their own debt and a way the UK has used recently (last year) a few times: to print the money (i.e. 'quantitative easing'). USA even stopped publishing the M3 (the amount of money) statistics a few years ago. This is unfair in the sense that it dilutes the debts (by decreasing the value of existing money) translating them to people who was responsible with their spending and actually has some savings in cash. It also might translate into higher inflation. This might not be the case now because it could be offset with money that is being destroyed due to defaulted debt (e.g. defaulted mortgages) and with the current deflation. The eurozone has been reluctant to do this to keep the credibility of the euro (it is not impressive for foreign investors like the arabs or the chinese to see how more money is printed out of thin air diminishing the value of their own savings), but they might be forced to do it soon.

Also, at the moment I think USA, UK and the eurozone want their currencies weak to be able to export more. The problem is that if a currency goes down others go up against it :)

Apparently there is a huge financial war ongoing. The US dollar used to be backed de facto by petrol and now by chinese yuan but this situation seems to be quite weak at the moment and other blocks are trying to increase their share of power (and USA/UK are retaliating). In this scenario I see the EU (minus the UK) aligned with Russia and USA and UK with China.

Other option is that these are the first steps of a big war of the west (USA & EU) against the rising power of China. The PTBs could be trying to push the NWO in the west (with the excuse of an economic collapse) and to lead China to a war (see the issues betwen North and South Korea and the moment for example). I guess USA would like to see China involved in a big war against Russia and India.

Luke
28th May 2010, 14:27
I'm referring that nearly every "big " company is using money that comes from government, in forms of subsidies, contracts and "law protection".
They then use part of money obtained this way to lobby for further subsidies, contracts and law protection. It's self sustaining system.
While doing so, they make sure no competition would arise, widening financial gap, that one need to cross, before emerging to world market.
Most common example are factories subsidized by govt, supposedly for "creating work places". This means that such factory can produce goods below real production costs, that a producer not tied to government will need to have. Thus goods sponsored by govt are cheaper than similar ones, that are not sponsored, thus driving non-sponsored entities from the market. While subsidies are often time-limited, it's common practice to close factories when subsidies run out, and open factory in a country that grant further subsidies. Example of such mechanism here (http://www.betanews.com/article/Germans-outraged-over-Nokia-cell-phone-plant-shutdown/1201123648)
You can see how that distorts anything resembling free markets. Same goes for charters and any other forms of bordering the markets, like patent laws for example.
Now, one need to understand, that any entity big enough use tax-evasion techniques. This means those companies are state-sponsored.
This also means that taxes are payed by those firms/individuals, whose income is too low to jump to some tax heaven, and who are too small to compete for govt subsidies. That means that their income is used to prop big companies.
And now to "china problem" - when combination of laws and govt power keep production costs below anything possible in free economy,
Again, only those companies that are big enough can outsource their work.
So govt is propping up companies, that in turn destroy the economy.
With tax returns dimnishing, and social pressure to keep govt spending high, governments worldwide go further in debt.
Money comes from countries thet have economies that are geared towards raw products exports (Russia) or are providing slave labour for companies(China, and other 3rd world)
When IMF steps in, requiring steps that means destroying anything that left from productive middle class. Further "stabilization" funds are siphoned off to "big" companies. With no true economy, country spirals towards tribal warfare. And supplies big companies with slave labour or cheap raw materials (usually obtained in crudest way, without any respect to natural surroundings)
And I haven't touched upon Military-Industrial Complex or Banking Cartel

LP

Connecting with Sauce
28th May 2010, 14:31
Tell me more.

K

K,

Andy Gause explains how they plan to pay for it... in his show "The real world of money" all podcast here and weekly on Saturday… http://www.oneradionetwork.com/

Basically a summary of what Andrew says most shows is this… Worth listening until you get it...

he says "they" will get out of it by confincing people to buy higher rate long term bonds (which aren't actually money)… or keep their money in MZM.

Example Savings interest rates are say 1-2% in the banks... and the "news/adverts etc" brainwashes people to convince them that interest rates will remain low for years to come…

During this 1-2% period they convince people that long term fixed rate interest bonds 3-5 or even 10 years etc are a good idea selling them at 5-6%...
BTW A bond is NOT money but a vehicle of finance (like a share)… Bonds are worth what people are prepared to pay based on rates…
During this period they also maintain Gold / PM prices low with manipulation (this period is now folks)… Even doing what Andrew calls "Urban Mining" buying grandma's gold/silver...

Once all the financial cattle are herded into the bonds and they don't look like they will be able to sell any more…

A "situation" (maybe a false flag or war) causes unforseen Interest rates to raise "slowly or not so slowly" are controlled raised over a period… fear panic etc will happen cattle will be stunned or frozen to not act...

Now interest rates slowly raise to 5 or 6 or higher %'s maybe on the long term even to 10 or even 15-16% peak like they did in the 70's… Eventually people will try and change or cash in there bonds..

At this point long term bonds will have to be 16-20% to compete again they are financial vehicles… and only WORTH what bond brokers are willing to pay...

The 5% bonds are now only performing at 25% of the 20% bonds… SO are worth only a quarter of the value of the 20% bonds…

The £$€ 10,000 life savings of grandma are now worth 2,500 but she got 6% interest during that time…

When interest rates are 20% that is the time to Sell gold/PM and BUY interest bonds… but it will be almost impossible to do so as they won't be "pushed" as heavily as they are now…

Repeat the cycle described above but in reverse…

Andy says they will never run out of zero's and as the money system is just all electronic a digit on a screen doesn’t actually matter...

This basic play is used in many areas and countries and involves devaluing something... like the toxic mortgages ... to 30% of their value... then buying them all... then revaluing them at a higher value...

hope this is clear...

John