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Krullenjongen
22nd July 2011, 12:09
Special: UN’s cultural body seems to be engaged in inquisition-like campaign against Israel

The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) adopted a decision calling on Israel to immediately cease all archaeological works in the Old City of Jerusalem. In particular, UNESCO, one of the UN’s most prominent and influential agencies, attacked the renovation of the Mughrabi Bridge that links the Western Wall plaza and Temple Mount.


The decision, initiated and promoted by Arab states, was adopted by consensus of the Western members of the commission. Indeed, the vote is the latest anti-Jewish initiative launched by the UN office meant to promote culture, education and science around the world. In fact, UNESCO’s robber barons are sanctifying the current global campaign aimed liquidating the legitimacy of the Israeli regime.

In 2009, UNESCO designated Jerusalem as “capital of Arab culture,” working with Palestinian Authority officials and key Arab figures to protest against what they described as “the Israeli occupation of Holy Jerusalem.” Other cities granted the title over the years were Algiers, Damascus, Cairo, Tunis, Amman, Beirut and Khartoum.

The Arabs find it difficult to convincingly portray Israel as usurper of the land as long as the world believes there is a huge connection between the people of the Bible and the land of the Bible. UNESCO is denying this connection by depicting Jewish history in the Middle East as no more than an insignificant, brief sojourn by arrogant colonizers.

UNESCO appears to deny that the Jewish people has laid its roots in Israel more than 4,000 years ago, or that 1,000 years before Christ, King David made Jerusalem the Jewish city par excellence, never entirely abandoned even in times of deadly persecution.

The City of David in Jerusalem, a major target of UNESCO’s anti-Jewish fury, is now the hottest open archaeological site in the world, with biblical artifacts, ancient burial spots and royal seals. There, UNESCO is using archeology to bash Israel and treats Israeli archeologists as nationalistic martinets.

In recent years, UNESCO increased its collaboration with ISESCO, the cultural body of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. According to ISESCO’s propaganda, the Biblical story and the Jewish temples are only fiction, Jewish monuments are Islamic treasures stolen by the Zionists, and Israeli archeological works are criminal acts against Muslims.

UNESCO’s ideology portrays the Jews as no more than invading colonizers, while the Muslims who invaded the country and ravaged it in the Seventh Century are, by some inexplicable leap, the descendants of the so called "indigenous Canaanites."

In 2010, UNESCO decided that Rachel’s Tomb and Hebron’s Cave of the Patriarchs are “Muslim mosques.” Western countries didn't raise any protest. UNESCO never mentioned that in addition to the famous Tomb of the biblical Patriarchs, Hebron contains also the tomb of the first judge (Otniel Ben Kenaz), the tomb of generals and confidants to Saul and David and the tombs of Ruth and Jesse, David’s great-grandmother and father. There is also no word by UNESCO about the fact that Rachel’s tomb is unanimously revered as the burial site of one of the Bible’s great women, the wife of Jacob, the Jewish blessed mother.

During the Second Intifada, UNESCO condemned Israel for “the destruction and damage caused to the cultural heritage in the Palestinian territories” as “a crime against the common cultural heritage of humanity.” However, UNESCO remained silent when a Palestinian mob destroyed Joseph’s tomb, a major Jewish religious shrine, and built a mosque on the site.

Upon the outbreak of the Second Intifada, Palestinian terrorists also attacked Rachel’s tomb, and for 41 days Jews were prevented from visiting the compound. UNESCO never condemned it. Recently, dozens of graves at the Mount of Olives cemetery in Jerusalem were vandalized, the latest in a series of attacks on Judaism’s oldest cemetery, where Jews have been buried since biblical times. Again, UNESCO remained silent.

UNESCO also “boasts” a long list of decisions to boycott and isolate the Jewish State. On November 7, 1974, UNESCO voted “to withhold assistance from Israel in the fields of education, science and culture because of Israel’s persistent alteration of the historic features of Jerusalem.” On November 20, 1974 UNESCO voted also to exclude Israel from its European regional group. This anti-Jewish ostracism was not abandoned until 1978, after the United States withheld $40 million in payments from the organization in protest.

UNESCO’s war on Israel and the West continued and was so blatant that in 1984 the US, UK and others Western countries left the organization. In 1989 UNESCO made the claim that “Israel’s occupation of Jerusalem” was destroying the holy city by “acts of interference, destruction and transformation” (then-mayor of Jerusalem, Teddy Kollek, expressed “deep disgust at UNESCO’s attitude.”)


In 1990, UNESCO attacked what it described as the “irreversible” changes to Jerusalem's architectural heritage resulting from Israeli “occupation.” UNESCO’s apparatchiks decried the “lost loveliness” of the city. In 1993, then-UNESCO director-general Frederico Mayor boycotted an international conference on science in Jerusalem, despite Israel’s history of scintillating enlightenment, like the highest production of scientific publications and museums per capita in the world.

In 1996, UNESCO organized a symposium on Jerusalem at the body’s Paris headquarters. But no Jewish or Israeli groups were invited. When in 1998 a UNESCO delegation visited Jerusalem, it refused to meet with Israeli officials. In the past, UNESCO also has called for “financial sanctions against Israel” and passed hundreds of resolutions criticizing Israel’s activities in Judea and Samaria.

In 2001, UNESCO promoted the “Cairo Declaration Document for Jerusalem Antiquities Preservation,” which falsely accused Israel of destroying Islamic antiquities on the Temple Mount and in Jerusalem’s Old City in an attempt to divert attention from Palestinian crimes against archeology and history. When the United Nations celebrated its 50th anniversary, UNESCO refused to mention the Shoah in its World War II resolution, intentionally ignoring Israel’s request to include a reference to the destruction of European Jewry.

On a final note, a recent UNESCO report on science, Jewish physician and theologian Maimonides is classified as a Muslim named “Moussa ben Maimoun.” So the Rambam - for Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon – has been forced to “convert” to Islam by the UN’s revisionist historians.

During the Middle Ages, the French Inquisition confiscated and burned Maimonides's books. From the elegant Parisian boulevards, UNESCO’s inquisitors are now following the same dreadful solution of rendering history and the Holy Land "Judenrein."



Giulio Meotti, a journalist with Il Foglio, is the author of the book A New Shoah: The Untold Story of Israel's Victims of Terrorism

Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4097506,00.html

Lord Sidious
22nd July 2011, 12:24
Great, I know!
Let's feed the madness!
The jews and us are enemies everyone.
Repeat after me, I hate the jews, they are the enemy.
FFS, grow up and figure out what they are doing with us.
Divide and conquer is old.
Boring too.

GCS1103
23rd July 2011, 00:24
Great, I know!
Let's feed the madness!
The jews and us are enemies everyone.
Repeat after me, I hate the jews, they are the enemy.
FFS, grow up and figure out what they are doing with us.
Divide and conquer is old.
Boring too.

Now, Now, Lord Sid- you have to give equal time to my friend. He gets upset when he reads some of the posts, like I do. He is just putting this thread in the same format that the anti-Israeli posts from the Arab newspapers come from. We need to be exposed to all sides of this argument, right? Your response, as usual, is good. Maybe you can post it again on the other threads, instead of thanking the posters.

At the very least, we need to see another video to relax everyone...:kiss:

etheric underground
23rd July 2011, 01:07
My wish is that awakened individuals would promote the need to see us all as one race.
THE HUMAN RACE.. or as Little grandmother passionately calls it.
The tribe of many colours.
We are but one small, unique varied group of beings lumped together on the same piece of dirt..EARTH.
When we start to embark on more than what we are, you quite quickly realise that we have to start working as
a collective....THE HUMAN COLLECTIVE. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO A POSITIVE FUTURE

loveandgratitude
23rd July 2011, 05:54
When there are some particular people on this planet that thinks they are more special than the rest of us and that we are disposable, it becomes difficult to see a just and fair world. World genocide taking place as speak. Those particular people wish to have a FEUDAL SYSTEM. Elites and slaves system. Human collective.....sounds ORWELLIAN. How about HUMAN SOVEREIGNTY. THe right to have your own culture, your own language, your own money, your own religion, your own beliefs.

SOVEREIGN STATE.

One which governs itself independently of any foreign power.

Abstractedly, sovereignty resides in the body of the nation and belongs to the people. But these powers are generally exercised by delegation

STOP THIS INSANE SLAVE SYSTEM RULED BY AN ELITE POWER THAT HAS NO COUNTRY AND BEARS NO ALLIGANCE TO ANY OTHER THEN THEMSELVES.

Krullenjongen
23rd July 2011, 10:25
Great, I know!
Let's feed the madness!
The jews and us are enemies everyone.
Repeat after me, I hate the jews, they are the enemy.
FFS, grow up and figure out what they are doing with us.
Divide and conquer is old.
Boring too.

Thanks for your input mr. Sidious.
I know we have budded heads before and i don't think we have the same view on things but that should only make for a more interesting discussion.
It's to bad you don't react to what is in the article at all.
i thought this forum was a place to discuss all kinds of conspiracy theories and i thought this one qualifies.
i see UNESCO as part of TPTB and the conspiracy here is that they try and undermine the legitimate claim the Jews have over the land of Israel.

You seem to place yourself above and independant of this conflict but if i look at the post you place and the thanks you give in other treads about this conflict it seems you have picked a side also.
If you don't like the article react to it with substance or as i often do let people hear the other side.

loveandgratitude
23rd July 2011, 11:03
The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

Lord Sidious
23rd July 2011, 11:21
Great, I know!
Let's feed the madness!
The jews and us are enemies everyone.
Repeat after me, I hate the jews, they are the enemy.
FFS, grow up and figure out what they are doing with us.
Divide and conquer is old.
Boring too.

Thanks for your input mr. Sidious.
I know we have budded heads before and i don't think we have the same view on things but that should only make for a more interesting discussion.
It's to bad you don't react to what is in the article at all.
i thought this forum was a place to discuss all kinds of conspiracy theories and i thought this one qualifies.
i see UNESCO as part of TPTB and the conspiracy here is that they try and undermine the legitimate claim the Jews have over the land of Israel.

You seem to place yourself above and independant of this conflict but if i look at the post you place and the thanks you give in other treads about this conflict it seems you have picked a side also.
If you don't like the article react to it with substance or as i often do let people hear the other side.

I am sympathetic to the cause of the Palestinians, that is obvious.
I feel that way not because of negative feelings towards jews, but because the palestinians have had a bad deal and been treated lower than dogs.
If that makes me biased, then I am biased.
However, I care about the good people in israel as well as the good people in palestine too.
This ''conflict'' is not natural, it is all fake.
''They'' need to keep this going until it is of no use to them.
As for the article, there is nothing in that of value, that I could see.

Krullenjongen
23rd July 2011, 11:56
The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

That is an interesting point you make there.
I have to correct you a little because the land of Israel (or the whole of Palestine for that matter) has not been occupied for thousands of years by one people. Palestine has always been a land where different people lived together.
It is undeniable that there were Jews living in Palestine for a few thousand years also, even tho they did not control the land.
I believe the control of the land switched from greek to roman to ottoman to english and then it was decided in the Balfour declaration to create a homeland for the Jews that lived there for ages. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate)
This homeland did NOT include All of Palestine because the state of Jordan was also created in Palestine.

So when this homeland was created, do other Jews that do not live there or who's parents or grandparents fled from this land before it was Israel have the right to live / return there and live among their own people? i would say yes.

You have to remember that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, they are just the people that lived in the land called Palestine.
Even the Jews living in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel were called Palestinians.

Furthermore this is what Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said about the Palestinian people.
(And i know this article is true because i am dutch and i looked it up)

"Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."

Lord Sidious
23rd July 2011, 11:59
Some of what you say is accurate and some is pure propoganda.
That is why I said what I said, you don't seem to be able to distinguish propoganda from ''fact'' which limits your credibility.

Krullenjongen
23rd July 2011, 12:03
Some of what you say is accurate and some is pure propoganda.
That is why I said what I said, you don't seem to be able to distinguish propoganda from ''fact'' which limits your credibility.

Well please enlighten me with the facts then!
Why don't you react to the arguments i make end state some of your facts and arguments?
I thought that is what a good discussion is all about.

How do you expect me to learn anything if you will not engage in a adult discussion?

Lord Sidious
23rd July 2011, 12:05
Some of what you say is accurate and some is pure propoganda.
That is why I said what I said, you don't seem to be able to distinguish propoganda from ''fact'' which limits your credibility.

Well please enlighten me with the facts then!
Why don't you react to the arguments i make end state some of your facts and arguments?
I thought that is what a good discussion is all about.

How do you expect me to learn anything if you will not engage in a adult discussion?

I will, but later on, I am talking to some people about the Oslo event right now.

Fred Steeves
23rd July 2011, 12:19
:violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::v iolin:

Lord Sidious
23rd July 2011, 12:35
The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

That is an interesting point you make there.
I have to correct you a little because the land of Israel (or the whole of Palestine for that matter) has not been occupied for thousands of years by one people. Palestine has always been a land where different people lived together.
It is undeniable that there were Jews living in Palestine for a few thousand years also, even tho they did not control the land.
I believe the control of the land switched from greek to roman to ottoman to english and then it was decided in the Balfour declaration to create a homeland for the Jews that lived there for ages. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate)
This homeland did NOT include All of Palestine because the state of Jordan was also created in Palestine.

So when this homeland was created, do other Jews that do not live there or who's parents or grandparents fled from this land before it was Israel have the right to live / return there and live among their own people? i would say yes.

You have to remember that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, they are just the people that lived in the land called Palestine.
Even the Jews living in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel were called Palestinians.

Furthermore this is what Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said about the Palestinian people.
(And i know this article is true because i am dutch and i looked it up)

"Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."

Ok, answer me this then, why should ''jews'' from all over have a right of return to a land they never inhabited when the palestinians who fled have no right of return?
There has never been a palestinian state, but till 48, there was never an israel either, what is the point?
Relying on the bible as an historical account of ancient history is a joke.
Those who use it wrote it, how is that valid?
Arabic as spoken by the palestinians is different to syrian and egyptian, they are their own subgroup.
For me, there is only one way to resolve all this madness.
ALL of the land is absorbed into one state.
ALL of the people are equal.
They all either live or die together in the nation they create.
They deal with the extremists on both sides.

Billy
23rd July 2011, 12:43
Please Sign if you agree :-)


To the leaders of France, Spain, Germany, the UK and the High Representative of the EU and all UN member states:

We urge you to endorse the legitimate bid for recognition of the state of Palestine and the reaffirmation of the rights of the Palestinian people. It is time to turn the tide on decades of failed peace talks, end the occupation and move towards peace based on two states.


http://www.avaaz.org/en/independence_for_palestine_uk/?cl=1175218655&v=9676

EDIT:
There is more than enough room for everyone to live in peace together or as neighbours.

GCS1103
23rd July 2011, 12:52
:violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::violin::v iolin:

Come on Fred S- you can do better than that. I like to read what you have to say. You usually post rational and intelligent thoughts- the violins add nothing to a serious discussion. We're all here to express what we believe on a particular topic. Sometimes a topic hits a nerve for some of us and we tend to be more "vocal". Tell me what you think, without the little pictures.

Goldie

ktlight
23rd July 2011, 13:06
The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

That is an interesting point you make there.
I have to correct you a little because the land of Israel (or the whole of Palestine for that matter) has not been occupied for thousands of years by one people. Palestine has always been a land where different people lived together.
It is undeniable that there were Jews living in Palestine for a few thousand years also, even tho they did not control the land.
I believe the control of the land switched from greek to roman to ottoman to english and then it was decided in the Balfour declaration to create a homeland for the Jews that lived there for ages. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate)
This homeland did NOT include All of Palestine because the state of Jordan was also created in Palestine.

So when this homeland was created, do other Jews that do not live there or who's parents or grandparents fled from this land before it was Israel have the right to live / return there and live among their own people? i would say yes.

You have to remember that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, they are just the people that lived in the land called Palestine.
Even the Jews living in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel were called Palestinians.

Furthermore this is what Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said about the Palestinian people.
(And i know this article is true because i am dutch and i looked it up)

"Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."

Hi Krullenjongen, Here's a map of Palestine dating back to 16th century. It states this:

"Abraham Ortelius after Tilleman Stella. "Palestinae sive totius Terrae Promissionis, Nova Descriptio." From Theatrum Orbis Terrarum. Antwerp: Aegidius Coppen Diesth, 1570-1575. 14 x 18 7/8. Engraving. Full original hand color. With old pin-holes, folds and short tears in margins. Map professionally conserved and lined. Overall, very good condition.

A map of the Holy Land from 'the first modern atlas,' Abraham Ortelius' Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, or 'Theater of the World.' The publication of this atlas marked an epoch in the history of cartography, for it is the first uniform and systematic collection of maps of the whole world based only on contemporary knowledge since the days of Ptolemy. In the sixteenth century there was a great increase in interest in maps and charts, and Ortelius, as a businessman with a passion for history and cartography, was at the forefront in meeting this demand. Through his collecting and his antiques business, Ortelius was able to research contemporary maps, becoming one of the greatest experts of his day. Ortelius based his work on the best maps available, drawing the maps himself with the plates done by Franz Hogenberg. Unlike other atlas-makers, Ortelius cited the authors of the original maps from which he compiled his work. In this case, he based his map on the work of the prolific Tilleman Stella. Thus it is not only for his unprecedented achievement in issuing the first modern atlas, but also for his thoughtful and rigorous methodology, that Ortelius belongs amongst the first rank of cartographers. He is very aptly called 'the father of modern cartography.'

This map is of particular significance because it was the first map of the Holy Land published by Ortelius. Done in original color, this map has many important decorative and geographic features. In the upper cartouche, Ortelius pays tribute to the promised land with all its goodness and holiness by quoting one of the most famous passages relating to the Holy Land. The map relays both biblical and modern geography and sets a precedent for maps of Holy Land for the next three centuries. Included in this map is the path taken by the Israelites from Ramses (Egypt) past Mount Sinai to Jericho. Biblical sites are depicted by churches, interestingly Jerusalem is not given great prominence in the map. The Holy Land is divided into the lands of the twelve tribes, Judeae and Samaria. Along with their historic significance, Ortelius' maps are noted for their delightful design and unusual Dutch coloring. They are decorative pieces in the finest Renaissance tradition, with elegant lettering, elaborate mannerist cartouches, sailing ships, and other charming features. This map of Palestine is no exception, with two especially nice cartouches and illustrations including two flute-playing satyrs. First rate historically and aesthetically, a superb sixteenth-century document. $1,400"

http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/ortholy.jpg

source: http://www.philaprintshop.com/holyland.html

The thing is, why all this fragmentation in the world. Why passports? Why nationalism? etc, etc.

Krullenjongen
25th July 2011, 15:52
[QUOTE=loveandgratitude;268447]The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

That is an interesting point you make there.
I have to correct you a little because the land of Israel (or the whole of Palestine for that matter) has not been occupied for thousands of years by one people. Palestine has always been a land where different people lived together.
It is undeniable that there were Jews living in Palestine for a few thousand years also, even tho they did not control the land.
I believe the control of the land switched from greek to roman to ottoman to english and then it was decided in the Balfour declaration to create a homeland for the Jews that lived there for ages. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate)
This homeland did NOT include All of Palestine because the state of Jordan was also created in Palestine.

So when this homeland was created, do other Jews that do not live there or who's parents or grandparents fled from this land before it was Israel have the right to live / return there and live among their own people? i would say yes.

You have to remember that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, they are just the people that lived in the land called Palestine.
Even the Jews living in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel were called Palestinians.

Furthermore this is what Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said about the Palestinian people.
(And i know this article is true because i am dutch and i looked it up)

"Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."


Ok, answer me this then, why should ''jews'' from all over have a right of return to a land they never inhabited when the palestinians who fled have no right of return?
The first part of the answer the the one i gave above.
The second part of the answer is that they now claim that there are about 4 million refugees but this is never the number of people that fled (or got the hell out of there on the request of the surrounding arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel) and Israel can't absorb that many refugees.


There has never been a palestinian state, but till 48, there was never an israel either, what is the point?
The point is that i was not talking about a Palestinian STATE but a non existent Palestinian PEOPLE.
If a Palestinian people have never existed how can they claim a "homeland"
And if there ever was a home land then this should be Jordan where about 60% or 70% of the people is Palestinian.


But this discussion is a bit besides the point that i wanted to make with the article.
The article shows a symptom or the fruits of TPTB.
As Svali (the rare illuminati whisleblower, see: http://www.projectcamelot.org/svali.html) tells us, the illuminati HATE Israel and want to see it destroyed.
UNSCO is a puppet of the illuminatie and the way they want to destroy Israel among other things is undermining the legitimate claim to the land.

Krullenjongen
25th July 2011, 15:57
The real argument is - Do Jews from Europe (The Kazhars) and Russians, who converted to Judaism have a right to land that someone else occupied for 1,000 of years and be treated less than human. This is the real issue.

That is an interesting point you make there.
I have to correct you a little because the land of Israel (or the whole of Palestine for that matter) has not been occupied for thousands of years by one people. Palestine has always been a land where different people lived together.
It is undeniable that there were Jews living in Palestine for a few thousand years also, even tho they did not control the land.
I believe the control of the land switched from greek to roman to ottoman to english and then it was decided in the Balfour declaration to create a homeland for the Jews that lived there for ages. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate)
This homeland did NOT include All of Palestine because the state of Jordan was also created in Palestine.

So when this homeland was created, do other Jews that do not live there or who's parents or grandparents fled from this land before it was Israel have the right to live / return there and live among their own people? i would say yes.

You have to remember that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, they are just the people that lived in the land called Palestine.
Even the Jews living in Palestine before the creation of the state of Israel were called Palestinians.

Furthermore this is what Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said about the Palestinian people.
(And i know this article is true because i am dutch and i looked it up)

"Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism."

Hi Krullenjongen, Here's a map of Palestine dating back to 16th century. It states this:

"Abraham Ortelius after Tilleman Stella. "Palestinae sive totius Terrae Promissionis, Nova Descriptio." From Theatrum Orbis Terrarum. Antwerp: Aegidius Coppen Diesth, 1570-1575. 14 x 18 7/8. Engraving. Full original hand color. With old pin-holes, folds and short tears in margins. Map professionally conserved and lined. Overall, very good condition.

A map of the Holy Land from 'the first modern atlas,' Abraham Ortelius' Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, or 'Theater of the World.' The publication of this atlas marked an epoch in the history of cartography, for it is the first uniform and systematic collection of maps of the whole world based only on contemporary knowledge since the days of Ptolemy. In the sixteenth century there was a great increase in interest in maps and charts, and Ortelius, as a businessman with a passion for history and cartography, was at the forefront in meeting this demand. Through his collecting and his antiques business, Ortelius was able to research contemporary maps, becoming one of the greatest experts of his day. Ortelius based his work on the best maps available, drawing the maps himself with the plates done by Franz Hogenberg. Unlike other atlas-makers, Ortelius cited the authors of the original maps from which he compiled his work. In this case, he based his map on the work of the prolific Tilleman Stella. Thus it is not only for his unprecedented achievement in issuing the first modern atlas, but also for his thoughtful and rigorous methodology, that Ortelius belongs amongst the first rank of cartographers. He is very aptly called 'the father of modern cartography.'

This map is of particular significance because it was the first map of the Holy Land published by Ortelius. Done in original color, this map has many important decorative and geographic features. In the upper cartouche, Ortelius pays tribute to the promised land with all its goodness and holiness by quoting one of the most famous passages relating to the Holy Land. The map relays both biblical and modern geography and sets a precedent for maps of Holy Land for the next three centuries. Included in this map is the path taken by the Israelites from Ramses (Egypt) past Mount Sinai to Jericho. Biblical sites are depicted by churches, interestingly Jerusalem is not given great prominence in the map. The Holy Land is divided into the lands of the twelve tribes, Judeae and Samaria. Along with their historic significance, Ortelius' maps are noted for their delightful design and unusual Dutch coloring. They are decorative pieces in the finest Renaissance tradition, with elegant lettering, elaborate mannerist cartouches, sailing ships, and other charming features. This map of Palestine is no exception, with two especially nice cartouches and illustrations including two flute-playing satyrs. First rate historically and aesthetically, a superb sixteenth-century document. $1,400"

http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/ortholy.jpg

source: http://www.philaprintshop.com/holyland.html

The thing is, why all this fragmentation in the world. Why passports? Why nationalism? etc, etc.

I don't understand what you are trying to say with this.
It's a great old map with the holy land divided into the lands of the twelve tribes.
Doesn't this confirm that there has always been a jewish presence there?

Lord Sidious
25th July 2011, 16:07
Ok, answer me this then, why should ''jews'' from all over have a right of return to a land they never inhabited when the palestinians who fled have no right of return?
The first part of the answer the the one i gave above.
The second part of the answer is that they now claim that there are about 4 million refugees but this is never the number of people that fled (or got the hell out of there on the request of the surrounding arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel) and Israel can't absorb that many refugees.


There has never been a palestinian state, but till 48, there was never an israel either, what is the point?
The point is that i was not talking about a Palestinian STATE but a non existent Palestinian PEOPLE.
If a Palestinian people have never existed how can they claim a "homeland"
And if there ever was a home land then this should be Jordan where about 60% or 70% of the people is Palestinian.


But this discussion is a bit besides the point that i wanted to make with the article.
The article shows a symptom or the fruits of TPTB.
As Svali (the rare illuminati whisleblower, see: http://www.projectcamelot.org/svali.html) tells us, the illuminati HATE Israel and want to see it destroyed.
UNSCO is a puppet of the illuminatie and the way they want to destroy Israel among other things is undermining the legitimate claim to the land.

If both peoples lived together in one state, there probably wouldn't be a need for such a large military.
That being the case, they could absorb those who wish to live there.
If you say the palestinians never existed, then how can that % of jordanians be palestinian?
Also, you do realise that the arabic for palestinian is felestini? From the name philistines?
You did read about that in your bible, no?
As for the elites wanting to destroy isreal, I would agree with that.
I have already posted about this several times.

Armen
25th July 2011, 16:25
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict to me is so indicative of the bigger narrative that symbolizes our dysfunctionality. I am sympathetic to the Palestinians. What's being done to them, the way they are being treated is horrifying as far as I'm concerned. So, knowing my bias, I have to express this.

If the Israelis are aggressively colonizing, or reclaiming land they say is rightfully theirs by forcibly displacing people that currently live there, shouldn't we do the same in the United States then? Shouldn't all First Nations/Indigenous people start going door to door and kicking out all the "settlers" that are living on their land? Shouldn't they then be bulldozing neighborhoods and training militias and militaries to forcibly take back the land that was so obviously theirs before it was those who currently live and occupy the united states? And they might if they had the military power. So what is the message? Might is right? If the state of Israel has the right to murder people, displace them, harrass, bully, and exterminate, on the grounds that they originally have claim to the land, then I think we have a lot of re-organizing to do in the US and other countries. People in Arizona, New Mexico, better find a new home. Same in Colorado. New England, etc....

It's not a valid argument as far as I'm concerned, or justification to brutalize other human beings. And especially in light of the jewish holocaust, it is, again, horrifying to me that the State of Israel would take such an aggressive stand and justify its "holocaust" like behavior by claiming that it is taking back what is theirs and perpetrating holocaust on another people. If the actions of the State of Israel are good and just, based on what happened in the jewish holocaust, wouldn't it then stand to reason that now Palestine has the right to follow suit? In other words, organize, create a military, and occupy some land by force, aggressively exterminating and pushing whoever is in their way. Exacting revenge through brutal military action. Wouldn't that be the logical next step? Which brings us back to the same conclusion. Namely, that as much as we talk about peace, what really matters is might. Whoever has more might decides what happens. I don't feel good about that. This cannot be a viable principle for human management...

It's the same "Manifest Destiny" approach the American settlers had when colonizing the Americas. It's just brutality, enforced by violence. If anybody is going to pull the "we were here first" card, then we all better start packing up, cause we all have some xplaining to do.

All this to say, that I am horrified as mentioned before by what Israel is doing, and it's arguments and justifications for "colonization" are very weak and hypocritical to me.

Bryn ap Gwilym
25th July 2011, 16:32
The things is. What will happen if the true Israelite's remember who they are & decide to go back to their land?

Seikou-Kishi
25th July 2011, 16:38
Personally, that land will always be Palestinian land to me.

Jerusalem/Al-Quds al-Sharif is the spiritual centre of the three main Abrahamic religions. It is holy to the Jews because King David called it the capital of Israel and established the first temple there, it is holy to the Muslims because Mohammed undertook al-Isra wal-Mi'raj, riding on the back of a k'ruv to lead prayer with other prophets, after which he ascended through the seven heavens to speak with god, and it is holy to the Christians because, once Jesus had been crucified, Saint Helena (Flavia Julia Helena Augusta, Empress of the Roman Empire) found the True Cross in Jerusalem.

That is just a brief outline of the reasons for Jerusalem's being holy in three religions. Personally, I consider Islam and Christianity to both have superior claims to holiness for that city than Judaism; Judaism, in celebrating the 'holiness' of Jerusalem seems to be doing nothing more than worshipping a political fact. So it was the capital city, big deal! I'm not about to start worshipping London just because it's the capital of the United Kingdom, and it would be difficult to convince me that Jerusalem is even equally as important for Jews as it is for Muslims and Christians.

It's no secret that I'm Jewish, but I am what's called a 'secular Jew', if you will allow what might seem to be a contradiction in terms. I do not like, however, what seems to be a trend among religious Jews to blur the distinction between worshipping god and worshipping themselves as an ethno-political entity. When I look at stories like the reason for Jerusalem's holiness in Judaism, I can only find that Jerusalem is of political significance, not religious significance, in the same way in which Jewish wars with, inter alia, the Ammonites and the Moabites seem less to be about conflicts between the Monotheism of the Jews and the Paganism of the Ammonites and Moabites, and rather more about geo-political conflicts and land-grabs dressed up as persecution for following Jehovah — we forget that, as pagans immersed in the various middle eastern religions, the Ammonites and the Moabites would have had a practical tolerance for the religions of others, the Jews, unable to contend the equality of other religions along with their own, would benefit from blurring the distinction between geo-political and ethno-religious conflicts.

So, for me, I cannot see in UNESCO's decision anything less than a bit of common sense which, for a UN body, is a remarkable turn up for the books.

realitycorrodes
4th November 2011, 21:29
I am new to this but from my brief research the way I see it is...

it does not matter if the British had control of the area because the Ottoman empire lost the war and gave them so called control of the area - why?
Because the people who owned the land really were living on the land, and apparently they were about 92% arabs. The powers that be like to create
the illusion that they are right because they have used armies to force the rightful people into submission.

The UN nations is a corrupt organisation, that came out of the League of Nations and the Council Of Foreign Relations who are essentially Zionists as far as I can see. So we have TPTB pretending to be "righteous" yet again using the full power of their media to cast spells over the simple folk like you and me - when in reality they don't have any right to take away the land of 92% of the arabs that have lived there for generations. It all great illusive lie.

British empire, United Nations they are corrupt - nothing they state is law is really law - its their own corrupt law!

And in regard to the biblical reasoning which is even more absurd.

There was a research done to show that there was no geneological difference between the arab and jewish people living in the middle east - which means

physically they are the same. So either the arabs and the jews are the same chosen people or there really is not any chosen people i.e. the arabs have just the same chosen people status to remain on the land they have been on for generations.

But the more astute individual could highlight the political advantage of creating a personalised (political) god, who has decided that a particular (political) group or the chosen ones and then, the political group puts words in the mouth of their own created god, that makes that god out to be a murderer as strangely that political god allows the politically chosen people to behave in a (theoretically) UNGODLY manner!?

What if the arabs decided to create their own god and say that their god stated they were the chosen people and that their god said that America, or Britain , or Switzerland was their chosen land. What if the arabs then decided to go over to those countries were people had been living for a long time and started using force and violence to remove those people from their land?

Anyway, as I say I have only just started looking in to it. There may be something "extremely complex" I am missing, which would explain why so many seem to be arguing over this issue.

References

Occupation 101
Palestine is still the issue


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...un_exposed.htm

http://www.sprword.com/videos/UNdeception/

Re: Sion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11543891
www.rense.com/general48/Palestinians.pdf


Hum Immunol. 2001 Sep;62(9):889-900.
The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations.
Abstract
The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.