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Peace of Mind
25th July 2011, 17:57
Hi, all...after witnessing a 300 pound dude take more than 15 mins to pick up a dead animal from the street I gots to wondering...

Why are people scared to go near death? Iíve seen people hugging and displaying great compassion towards kittens, puppies, people, etcÖBut when any creature is found lying dead on the ground people seem to almost loose it and freak out at the sight of death. Iím thinking if youíre going to be intimidated by any creature it would make more sense if that creature was alive where it had the potential to actually harm you. The part that gets me is when someone is using a 10 foot pole to poke a dead kitten...as if it was suddenly going to jump up and bite their heads off.

Numerous times Iíve seen people run away screaming at the sight of road kill, and will never touch a body in the funeral parlor. I can understand why some are afraid to die, but I have a hard time understanding why someone would be afraid to go near a dead animal/person. Could the conditioning of fear be so strong?

What is it about the sight of death that makes people so squeamish?

Peace

Tony
25th July 2011, 18:04
Perhaps they think that they will be next....it might be catching!

Flash
25th July 2011, 18:11
I see it in three different questions:

Why are people scare of handling dead bodies: Pineal has it, they may be scared of handling sick animals that are dead, scared to catch anything that makes them sick. I am careful if handling an dead anything because I may catch something (raccoon have a propensity to die of rabia in North America for example as well as foxes - which is not FOX channel which is rabid too imho but not dead yet. lol).

Wy are people scare of being around death: it may have to do with scare of the unknown, or scare of spirits for example.

The third question is why are people scared of dying? This merits a metaphysical as well as a biological answer. As for the biological, our body is made in order to want to survive in order to reproduce. It will resist death even if our emotions/soul were ready. As for the inner readiness, I think it has to do with inner development and basic beliefs.

Nyce555
25th July 2011, 18:13
Well for me when it comes to road kill, it is decaying and has unknown amount of bacteria and bugs decomposing it. The smell is usually horrible and the sight is usually not pleasant. Therefore, I don't wnat to go near it. I have a very weak stomach.Touching a loved one that has died is different. Some people don't mind touching the body, but for me the person I loved is not in that body anymore so I don't have an desire to touch the body. It's the person's soul that I miss. That is why I prefer memorial services rather than funerals where a body is displayed. But to each his/her own. Thats jut my opinion.

Fred Steeves
25th July 2011, 18:36
What is it about the sight of death that makes people so squeamish?

Peace

Very astout observation Peace of Mind. Isn't it funny how much we are shielded from death? When I was 9 years old, my 57 year old grandfather who I loved dearly unexpectadly up and died, and I was not permitted to go to his funeral. Looking back I can understand this terrible mistake that was made, my parents were just doing what they thought, and probably were taught, was right.

It was not until I saw my mom lying dead in her hospital bed 12 years ago did I finally see what death was. Funny thing was, through the obvious finality of the situation, that was the greatest gift she ever gave me. Even though I was a proud atheist at the time, it was obvious that "mom" was no longer in the room, just the vehicle she used while here. THAT was extremely profound, and led to me beginning to rethink things. Serious rethinking.

I now think that our ideas of death as commonly taught are insidiously manipulated. Right down to tearfully paying homage on bended knee before the headstones of our deceased loved ones. Really? Why are we taught this is appropriate?

My wife and I have promised each other no funerals or headstones. The first one to go will be cremated, ashes spread in the spring we love to visit on week-ends, and then a party with plenty of booze for all to gather, tell stories, and celebrate the life that was. Sure there will be plenty of tears, it's only natural, but they should also be interspersed with gut splitting laughter over old stories.

Knowing what I do now about our negative emotions and vibrations being the dinner bell for others, our negative misunderstanding of death and dying makes a lot of sense.

Cheers,
Fred

jagman
25th July 2011, 18:45
Awful smells and odors is the main reason why i think most ppl stay away from road kill ! In humans I have never felt a great connection with the body of loved ones. Most of the time they do not even look like there former selves It is obvious to me the body is just a shell !

Tony
25th July 2011, 18:56
Our lives have also been sanitised, death has been kept away from most of the population. The BBC give a pre report, that the images may disturb people. This creates a fear, as if it should not happen. Death like birth is normal.

Star
25th July 2011, 19:39
Dear Peace of Mind,
Good question. For me, I have always stayed with and sat by friends or family that were passing away. Others found this hard but I never did. They do not look anything like their former healthy selves for one thing, but I have gained much from being present with them. One dear friend I stayed with 2 weeks while her husband was at work. At one poing I laid down on the couch and she said I could join her on the bed, but I felt I would disturb her. She said no, so I did and she asked if she could put her head on my shoulder. At that moment I felt such a loneliness inside...I reached over and pulled her towards me and told her what I felt and she said that she was terribly lonely because nobody wanted to touch her anymore. She fell asleep and I learned a lot from that. I have always been nurturing and loving to those in these last stages and treated them the way I would want to be treated and they felt that love.

When she went to the hospital and everyone was around her bedside, including me, there was a lot of quiet sobbing. At a certain point, I "felt" her leave her body even though she was still breathing and I quietly left. There is something different to a body that the Spirit has left. They are just a shell and I do not want to be around them because it is so unreal and cold. Same with animals. The life force is gone and for me, even though I know it still is in a new form I cannot see, there is no point or even comfortable feeling in being around a dead person or animal. I do believe the possibility of infection from a road kill would be another factor. We are used to seeing "life" and living things..Even dead trees bother me as they just look different and you know the life force is gone. So I don't mind being with those who are leaving the body soon but after that I have no interest but to go by myself and grieve. Thanks for the topic.

Love & Light,
Star

phillipbbg
25th July 2011, 19:40
I think you may find our aversion for Handling dead bodies goes back to the plagues that ravaged through humanity in our pasts (thinking that disease was passed from death or dying to the living through touch and smell) and it is an inbuilt resistance much like our fears of snakes and spiders etc...

Coping emotionally with death is something very different... IMO I think coping emotionally is one of humanities greatest talents...

Just my thoughts.... after all there is no death as such

Arrowwind
25th July 2011, 19:53
When grandpa died it was a lengthy event. It took many weeks of decline, eventually to bed, to lay for several more weeks, and then finally death. My sons, age 4 and 6 at the time loved grandpa and they were invited to participate in grandpa's life, regardless of how bleak it seemed. They were educated about how great grandpa had been, told stories of his life, they sat on his knee, observed the mental and then the physical decline. They knew grandpa was going to die soon. Although they had never before whitnessed death first hand, they were determined to be near grandpa until the end, in whatever fashion that should come in.

Im sure that many of you with children know just how difficult it is to awaken 4 and 6 year olds in the middle of the night. Its like trying to raise zombies from their graves... but when the phone rang at 3am the children knew that it might be bad news and they sprung from their beds in anticpation of the forthcoming event. We quickly dressed and went to grandpas house for we recieved word that he would pass soon. When we arrived the children ran into his room to be by his side during his last minutes. There were tears and there was also understanding that this was expected and this is how it goes. All was well with them and with the whole family.

Children should not be exempt from the dying process. They should be given opportunity to decide every step of the way at what level of observation or involvement in which they partake. There is no fear of death in our family. We were raised as such, believing that live is worth knowing and experiencing to the very last bitter sweet moment. Children learn by example, and generally the example of the elders that surround them. Keep your children away from neurotic elders and if this is not possible take them aside and educate them frequently about the truth of life. Give not your fears and your neurosis to the ones who come up next.

Funerals are for the celebration of life and a pathway for expressing greif amongst the family. Spike, grandpa's eldest son, passed away this summer after a tedious trial with heart disease. We knew it could come anytime but were surprised somewhat when it did come as it seemed that he was getting stronger. He died in his sleep while he and his wife were vacationing on the Oregon coast. When my boys found out, (now aged 23 and 26) they were ready to jump in the car and drive to Oregon for the funeral. They has spoken to Spike a number of times on the phone and had been tracking his health concerns across the many miles that separate them.

Spike had a memorial about 2 weeks after his death. He was a renound fireman and did much to promote EMT services across the country back in a time when there were none. Firemen from all over the north west came to speak at his memorial. My sons were there with their girlfriends. There were tears and celebration of his great life that had seved so many. Spike had arranged a ribeye steak dinner for all the family at the country club after the service... paid for by him, all fifty family members that showed up. There memories were shared, hugs given and a realization at just how precious each and everyone of us are.

Spike's ashes will be interned in a cemetary next to his dad. In years past this is a place where family has gathered either together or individually to remember their history and their connection within a beautiful spot under the trees. These rituals are done to teach one generation to the next, as well as to promote healing. To cut oneself off from the ritual can lead to emptiness, as the ritual provides a method of expression and sharing and healing and fortitude to go walk on further into the mystery of life without your loved one at your side.

Flash
25th July 2011, 21:08
When grandpa died it was a lengthy event. It took many weeks of decline, eventually to bed, to lay for several more weeks, and then finally death. My sons, age 4 and 6 at the time loved grandpa and they were invited to participate in grandpa's life, regardless of how bleak it seemed. They were educated about how great grandpa had been, told stories of his life, they sat on his knee, observed the mental and then the physical decline. They knew grandpa was going to die soon. Although they had never before whitnessed death first hand, they were determined to be near grandpa until the end, in whatever fashion that should come in.

Im sure that many of you with children know just how difficult it is to awaken 4 and 6 year olds in the middle of the night. Its like trying to raise zombies from their graves... but when the phone rang at 3am the children knew that it might be bad news and they sprung from their beds in anticpation of the forthcoming event. We quickly dressed and went to grandpas house for we recieved word that he would pass soon. When we arrived the children ran into his room to be by his side during his last minutes. There were tears and there was also understanding that this was expected and this is how it goes. All was well with them and with the whole family.

Children should not be exempt from the dying process. They should be given opportunity to decide every step of the way at what level of observation or involvement in which they partake. There is no fear of death in our family. We were raised as such, believing that live is worth knowing and experiencing to the very last bitter sweet moment. Children learn by example, and generally the example of the elders that surround them. Keep your children away from neurotic elders and if this is not possible take them aside and educate them frequently about the truth of life. Give not your fears and your neurosis to the ones who come up next.

Funerals are for the celebration of life and a pathway for expressing greif amongst the family. Spike, grandpa's eldest son passed away this summer after a tedious trial with heart disese. We knew it could come anytime but were surprised somewhat when it did come as it seemed that he was getting stronger. He died in his sleep while he and his wife were vacationing on the Oregon coast. When my boys found out, (now aged 23 and 26) they were ready to jump in the car and drive to Oregon for the funeraly. They has spoken to Spike a number of times on the phone and had been tracking his health concerns across the many miles that separate them.

Spike had a memorial about 2 weeks after his death. He was a renound fireman and did much to promote EMT services across the country back in a time when there were none. Firemen from all over the north west came to speak at his memoria. My sons were there with their girlfriends. There were tears and celebration of his great life that had seved so many. Spike had arranged a ribeye steak dinner for all the family at the country club after the service... paid for by him, all fifty family members that showed up. There memories were shared, hugs given and a realization at just how precious each and everyone of us are.

Spikes ashes will be interned in a cemetary next to his dad. In years past this is a place where family has gathered either together or individually to remember their history and their connection within a beautiful spot under the trees. These rituals are done to teach one generation to the next, as well as to promote healing. To cut oneself off from the ritual can lead to emptimess, as the ritual provides a method of expression and sharing and healing and fortitude to go walk on further into the mystery of live without your loved one at your side.


Really nice and moving Arrowind the way you raised your children's consciousness about death.

I have been integrated to a Muslim funeral once, in Turkey. Going to the Mosque is like going to the Church, with prayers etc, except that the coffin remains outside the Mosque. What striked me was the burial to start with and then the mourning traditions.

It is the men of the house who burry their dead. The women stay begind watching. It is very touching to see those grown up men take the coffin apart, and take the body wrapped in white cotton put it in the ground, while weeping all along. And to see the women observing their men and weeping too. They do take their dead and do not mind, it is part of the ways of doing.

Then there is a 7 days prayers. Neighbours bring food, at least one meal per day. The Iman comes every night to pray with family and friends. People tell the stories they lived with the deceased, they cry, they talk again and they pray. After 7 days, most of the hardest part of mourning is through, all this always surrounded with family and friends. Believe me, subsequent scars are very much reduced and support very much felt. I found it more humane to take such time for mourning than what we do in the catholic religion, having only 3 days.

Also they have the persons that were personnally acquainted with the decease, near friends and acquaitances, come and sit and talk about their relationship and happenings to the family members, during the day. Family members must listen, it is the tradition. This is so informative and respectful.

It makes me think of what you did with your children Arrowind.

The One
25th July 2011, 21:28
What is it about the sight of death that makes people so squeamish

Death will effect people in different ways,To watch people die from cancer or to watch children dying from famine can really effect you dependant on your beliefs,its a human instinct


Could the conditioning of fear be so strong?

Exactly

Anno
25th July 2011, 21:47
I would imagine it's an inbuilt disease avoidance thing. Like when people throw up and you feel like throwing up yourself. In today's society it seems out of place but for most of our history we'd only see those in our group doing it, who would have just eaten the same food as us. When my dog died, I kissed her head to say goodbye and my cousin went EWWWW. Seems to be in us all as base programming.

The first time I saw a dead body I was about 8 years old. A monsigneur at my parish church had died and he was laid out in a side room for a few days in a coffin for everyone to see. I didn't see it as a big thing at the time. People just went in and said goodbye to him or said a prayer. The next time I saw one was when a neighbour collapsed suddenly and died in the local park. It was very different. There was an invisible corden of about 30 feet with noone but the police daring to go closer.

Comparing all three situations, I'd say that if you know how the person died then the 'fear' doesn't seem to be there, which backs up the idea of basic programming to stop you catching something that might also kill you.

Ofcourse these days I understand that death does not exist, there's only creation and re-creation.

siggy
25th July 2011, 21:51
I think it's more of a cultural thing.

Most on here, it seems to me, are from the 1st world / western societies and we're generally shielded from death, killing, and most 'unpleasant' things.

I'm sure much of the world has very different attitudes to death than we in the western world.

Carmen
25th July 2011, 21:55
In my experience, city people are inclined to become separate from the natural order of things. Living in a farming situation means that one is never far away from the reality of death of various animals. I love the hawks and am always upset to see hawks killed on our roads. This is mostly caused by them eating road kill of other animals and not moving in time. Also from idiots who deliberately target them in their cars.

I often stop when I see roadkill and throw it off the road to help the hawks avoid the traffic. Probably looks a bit odd a woman dressed to go to town throwing dead animals off the road but who cares!! Certainly not me.

Having had experience with loved ones dying I know now that they are gone and just their clothes (their body) is left. Also, I am told that when one leaves the body thats what they think of the body, the clothing they have cast off. People having had NDE have no desire to re-enter the body and often have to be persuaded to go back in.

My brother died last night and I am pleased for him that he has gone on. He had a brain aneurysm and had he survived it, would have been badly handicapped. Unfortunately, his life had become static and habitual, no progress or evolving. Sad, but it was his choice.

Anno
25th July 2011, 22:07
In my experience, city people are inclined to become separate from the natural order of things. Living in a farming situation means that one is never far away from the reality of death of various animals.[...]

It needn't be that way. I'm a country boy who now lives in the city. A few weeks ago I saw this weird looking bird following a Magpie around. It looked just like a Magpie but brown. I looked it up in my bird book and saw it was a Juvenile Magpie. I'd not seen one before. A few days later I saw a dead Magpie laying in a building site. It took three days for the big burly builders to get round to removing it. I felt really sad seeing it laying there (they're my favourite bird) but then I thought back to the juvenile I'd seen and it reminded me of the circle of life and creation/recreation.

I saw a juvenile peregrine trying to catch a pigeon the other day but the magpies, crows and jackdaws all ganged up on it and chased it away. It was really weird because usually they don't go near eachother and fight when they get too close.

I think 'the city' is a state of mind, not a place, as nature continues regardless if you have eyes to see it.

w1ndmill
25th July 2011, 22:10
I have a slightly different story....

Many years ago when my children were 5 and 6, their paternal grandfather died. For reasons I won't go into here I did not attend the funeral but the children went with their father. I learned later that his eldest sister (their aunt) had been so overcome by grief she threw herself into the grave on top of the coffin and was dragged out by other mourners and led away wailing. Needless to say, my children were both affected deeply by this display. A few weeks later, while my daughter was with my own father she said to him "they threw my other granddad into a big black hole and everyone was screaming .....". He didn't know what to say but bent down and gave her a cuddle.

To be honest it hasn't appeared to have affected her long term but at the time I was horrified at what I thought might be a long term aversion to death.

imo funerals should be a celebration of the life that was led. We owe it to our loved ones to honour them in this way ...

Carmen
25th July 2011, 22:15
Windmill, I have a story about my own daughters when they about three and four. Frances, the eldest of the two, would ask me sometimes,"Mum, where do we go when we die?" I would always say, "We go to Heaven". Anyway, one evening we were coming home from trip away and we were just passing the local cemetary which is close to our village. Frances pipes up from the back seat "Oh look Hannie, we must be nearly home, we just passed the Heaven"!!!!!?

No pulling the wool over her eyes!!

Carmen
25th July 2011, 23:02
According to what I have learned and also to some extent from what I have experienced our Soul takes us out when our life has become static and set. No more learning, no more evolving. We are born on a certain date and we also have a death date, Unless, we move in Consciousness, Expand, Change. We are then on another timeline and have transcended our own death date. A few years ago, I missed my own death date by about three inches!!! The train very nearly look me and my car out!! Funny thing was I was not in the least fazed by this. It was sort of "Ya Missed" as I tootled on my way, sort of Mr McGoo like!!!

When we are on the Journey so to speak, we lose all fear of death. Our knowledge expands to to take in Eternal Life. So we are not really bothered about death because we Know we are Eternal. Its more of a case then of honouring this Life and doing the best we can, or Being the Best we can be.

My sister, and now my brother, both died of brain aneurysisms. I thought about this when my sister died. She was fit and healthy and 62. Not a candidate for an early death. One attitude neither of my siblings had given up was anger. They both blew up every now and then with anger. Sort of controlled family with anger. Not all the time, but the tendency was there. That attitude was there. At the same time my sister especially, was a kind, helpful community minded person. To me this "blowing their top" was what caused their deaths. I used to do the same thing, but my study and my training taught me better.

If this account helps any on this forum to correct this particular tendency, then let it be so.

Love and Light

Carmen

ghostrider
26th July 2011, 02:22
strange, death is the doorway to the other worlds, the only way to get there is death. why are some afraid to leave the matrix ? we return to the eternal...it's the purpose of being born, the moment we are born, the container timeclock starts ticking, and everyone has their moment pre-determined at an exact time - the end- of physical- return to spiritual...

Star
26th July 2011, 02:42
ghostrider,

It is not that we fear death, but the process of death is pretty awful unless one has a heart attack, a shooting, or a type of accident that causes immediate death. Ohterwise, the ones I have assisted are pretty hard to take. YOu are young and feeling good now and I find we can all give our platitudes and high idealistic sayings, but when you are in the throes of a debilitating disease for months sometimes years, you want to die. I believe Dr. Kevorkian had the right idea in that we should all die with dignity and peacefully. After all, we put our animals to rest when we know they are suffering and cannot be saved. Dr. Kevorkian has said that when we are young and feeling good and can enjoy life none of us want to die but when the quality of our life is reduced to nothing but pain, weakness, deformity we no longer want to be here.

Sincerely,
Star