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the trojan
1st August 2011, 23:44
It is obvious to a lot of us that we have some nasty people in positions of power on this planet,and they endeavor to control others for a myriad of reasons.
It is also obvious that there are nice people on this planet in positions of power and they endeavor to gain freedom from the constraints of others.

I dont know why I am here on the planet earth.
I dont know anyone alive who knows why we are here on the planet earth.
If anyone on this forum knows,for an absolute fact ,why we are here and can back it up with hard definitive evidence
and not information passed on from other human beings,
Please bring it to the table and share with all of us.
And please leave out faith or belief or any other human construct.
No theories either ,only cold hard provable fact,and please present your evidence here.
Its either this or we are going around and around in circles.(and thats the lucky ones)

DeDukshyn
1st August 2011, 23:48
can't be done .. good luck!

Hint: I am no longer going in circles ... but there are no human words that can convey it. Truth (with a capital T) cannot be taught, it can only be found, because it is personal to the person on the quest - it will be different for most people, not definable in human terms.

Thats the whole idea behind these words "Seek, and ye shall find"

EDITED ABOVE

pharoah21
1st August 2011, 23:50
It is obvious to a lot of us that we have some nasty people in positions of power on this planet,and they endeavor to control others for a myriad of reasons.
It is also obvious that there are nice people on this planet in positions of power and they endeavor to gain freedom from the constraints of others.

I dont know why I am here on the planet earth.
I dont know anyone alive who knows why we are here on the planet earth.
If anyone on this forum knows,for an absolute fact ,why we are here and can back it up with hard definitive evidence
and not information passed on from other human beings,
Please bring it to the table and share with all of us.
And please leave out faith or belief or any other human construct.
No theories either ,only cold hard provable fact,and please present your evidence here.
Its either this or we are going around and around in circles.(and thats the lucky ones)

The only cold, hard, facts you need, is what resonates with in you.

Look at the happiest people on this earth, and find me one of them that isn't spiritually enlightened.

Find me something that is more important than spirituality?

I can't think of anything more important, so to me, that's why we are here, it's a spiritual training ground.

the trojan
1st August 2011, 23:56
It is obvious to a lot of us that we have some nasty people in positions of power on this planet,and they endeavor to control others for a myriad of reasons.
It is also obvious that there are nice people on this planet in positions of power and they endeavor to gain freedom from the constraints of others.

I dont know why I am here on the planet earth.
I dont know anyone alive who knows why we are here on the planet earth.
If anyone on this forum knows,for an absolute fact ,why we are here and can back it up with hard definitive evidence
and not information passed on from other human beings,
Please bring it to the table and share with all of us.
And please leave out faith or belief or any other human construct.
No theories either ,only cold hard provable fact,and please present your evidence here.
Its either this or we are going around and around in circles.(and thats the lucky ones)

And please leave out faith or belief or any other human construct.
No theories either ,only cold hard provable fact,and please present your evidence here.
come on folks play the game!

DeDukshyn
1st August 2011, 23:59
Besides, "Cold Hard Facts" aren't what they're cracked up to be; It was once a cold hard fact that the galaxy revolved around the earth, why? because that is what everyone percieved when the looked at the sky - everyone had a perspective that proved that everything was revolving around the earth - all you had to do was look up and watch it revolve. It was a scientific fact. Scientific facts are just based on observations, just like the galaxy revolved around the earth. There is nothing but perceived "cold hard fact" as perceptions creates it. Not until someone took their mind to a new perspective was it discovered that the galaxy did not revolve around the earth - it's all just perspective and perception which is subject to subjectivity and interpretation, so there's really no such thing as a "cold hard fact" only observations. Kinda wrecks science doesn't it .. it does. Science is flawed from the start, and stats can be twisted to mean anything, we all know that already, so why award an idea against a flawed system of measurement? There is no point. Only experiences.

Play a game with flawed rules? No thanks! Good luck!

blake
2nd August 2011, 00:05
Hello The Trojan,

I have no facts. The only thing I can back up is the problem with fiat money. But when it comes to the truth of why we are on earth, it is all theories, in my opinion. We are as limited in our understanding of why we are on earth as a chicken is limited in its understanding of how a computer works. The chicken just doesn't have the hardware for it. But forgive me, becasue that is actially just my opinion, through observation and you wanted plain backed up fact!

Talking about an idea, or a feeling, somethings spins new understanding. So it may look as if we are getting no where, by discussing theories and perpectives, but indeed we are, at least some of us are, at least some of the time.

But that is all just my opinion. I will have to excuse myself from this thread as I can't keep within the framework of your request.

Did you ever hear of a muse? It is somone or thing or event that gives us inspiration to think new thoughts, connect dots of understanding or create new things. Sometimes talking and retalking about a subject sparks the muse to appear. perhaps Avalon is a muse for many people?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

nearing
2nd August 2011, 00:10
Can't be done.

The closest I have is 2 quotes from Bill Hicks (yep, a human with an opinion):

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."

and

"Life is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: "Is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey, don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we kill those people."

RMorgan
2nd August 2011, 00:28
Kid´s answer: We´re here because we´re here!

Adult´s answer: We´re here because [insert blablabla], that´s why we´re here.

Guru/New-agers/Conspiracy theorists answer (always another question even harder): Are we sure we´re here?

Philosopher´s answer: Define "here".

Humble man answer (my answer): I don´t know. I´m almost sure I´m here and, until I find a better place to be, I´ll just be here for as long as I can. In the meantime, I´ll just try to love, to forgive, to understand and to respect this place, so I can concentrate all my efforts, every day, to become a better being/spirit/soul/whatever.

etheric underground
2nd August 2011, 01:16
Proof is in the the pudding trojan.
evidence of truths is not important.
Your experience in life to validate your
WHY YOU ARE HERE IS!!
WE are all in the search for truths but YOUR
truth is all that matters to you.
Its the journey that teaches not the end result

EileenCookies
2nd August 2011, 01:26
If this isn't a good question, I don't know what is.

I feel the same way. Though I probably am not popular because of it. I found out that discernment* has answered the questions I had, for myself.
Many of the answers I have received I am not educated enough to understand. I finally stopped asking.

*discernment started a few years back for me, after 20 plus years of learning how. I even asked all the alien, moon, other planet questions....those answers are the most confusing. Sticking with what is happening here on this earth is what works for me now. I figured we just need to keep at it (to reconcile all our truths).

aranuk
2nd August 2011, 01:30
human beings,
So where else dearest Trojan? If you do not believe what other humans say why are you asking us? You figure it out and tell us, I will certainly listen, why can't you when someone gives their opinion?

Stan

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 01:34
Besides, "Cold Hard Facts" aren't what they're cracked up to be; It was once a cold hard fact that the galaxy revolved around the earth, why? because that is what everyone percieved when the looked at the sky - everyone had a perspective that proved that everything was revolving around the earth - all you had to do was look up and watch it revolve. It was a scientific fact. Scientific facts are just based on observations, just like the galaxy revolved around the earth. There is nothing but perceived "cold hard fact" as perceptions creates it. Not until someone took their mind to a new perspective was it discovered that the galaxy did not revolve around the earth - it's all just perspective and perception which is subject to subjectivity and interpretation, so there's really no such thing as a "cold hard fact" only observations. Kinda wrecks science doesn't it .. it does. Science is flawed from the start, and stats can be twisted to mean anything, we all know that already, so why award an idea against a flawed system of measurement? There is no point. Only experiences.

Play a game with flawed rules? No thanks! Good luck!

that was bloody good.And I agree with everything you say.

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 01:43
Kid´s answer: We´re here because we´re here!

Adult´s answer: We´re here because [insert blablabla], that´s why we´re here.

Guru/New-agers/Conspiracy theorists answer (always another question even harder): Are we sure we´re here?

Philosopher´s answer: Define "here".

Humble man answer (my answer): I don´t know. I´m almost sure I´m here and, until I find a better place to be, I´ll just be here for as long as I can. In the meantime, I´ll just try to love, to forgive, to understand and to respect this place, so I can concentrate all my efforts, every day, to become a better being/spirit/soul/whatever.

And another beauty!
Heres a funny thing ,RMorgan,the Kids answer :We´re here because we´re here,is the one I agree with and feels more truthful than the others.
(no jokes at my expense please!)
I find that anything else is based in myth and legend and gossip and bumptiousness(tm) for all we know.

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 01:50
Hello The Trojan,

I have no facts. The only thing I can back up is the problem with fiat money. But when it comes to the truth of why we are on earth, it is all theories, in my opinion. We are as limited in our understanding of why we are on earth as a chicken is limited in its understanding of how a computer works. The chicken just doesn't have the hardware for it. But forgive me, becasue that is actially just my opinion, through observation and you wanted plain backed up fact!

Talking about an idea, or a feeling, somethings spins new understanding. So it may look as if we are getting no where, by discussing theories and perpectives, but indeed we are, at least some of us are, at least some of the time.

But that is all just my opinion. I will have to excuse myself from this thread as I can't keep within the framework of your request.

Did you ever hear of a muse? It is somone or thing or event that gives us inspiration to think new thoughts, connect dots of understanding or create new things. Sometimes talking and retalking about a subject sparks the muse to appear. perhaps Avalon is a muse for many people?

Sincerely,
Mr. Davis

I am re reading all the posts here and they are wonderful,I feel the need to reply to all so far,but it is late in this neck of the woods,and I did not expect to be so inspired ,so late at night,and I am just tired.
Ive never thought of a forum or inanimates (if you could call a forum inanimate) as a muse before.I always associate muse with lusty old artists . again,an excellent reply thanks.

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 01:55
human beings,
So where else dearest Trojan? If you do not believe what other humans say why are you asking us? You figure it out and tell us, I will certainly listen, why can't you when someone gives their opinion?

Stan

Quite right,I can only refer you to something I learned about fifteen minutes ago:


Besides, "Cold Hard Facts" aren't what they're cracked up to be; It was once a cold hard fact that the galaxy revolved around the earth, why? because that is what everyone percieved when the looked at the sky - everyone had a perspective that proved that everything was revolving around the earth - all you had to do was look up and watch it revolve. It was a scientific fact. Scientific facts are just based on observations, just like the galaxy revolved around the earth. There is nothing but perceived "cold hard fact" as perceptions creates it. Not until someone took their mind to a new perspective was it discovered that the galaxy did not revolve around the earth - it's all just perspective and perception which is subject to subjectivity and interpretation, so there's really no such thing as a "cold hard fact" only observations. Kinda wrecks science doesn't it .. it does. Science is flawed from the start, and stats can be twisted to mean anything, we all know that already, so why award an idea against a flawed system of measurement? There is no point.

craig mitchell
2nd August 2011, 02:00
@The Trojan,

I once had a bunch of COLD hard facts and I held them so HARD for so long, that they got all soft and gooey, dripped all over me and I had a devil of a time gettin' them off....almost cost me my life, as a matter of FACT.:sad:

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 02:03
If this isn't a good question, I don't know what is.

I feel the same way. Though I probably am not popular because of it. I found out that discernment* has answered the questions I had, for myself.
Many of the answers I have received I am not educated enough to understand. I finally stopped asking.

*discernment started a few years back for me, after 20 plus years of learning how. I even asked all the alien, moon, other planet questions....those answers are the most confusing. Sticking with what is happening here on this earth is what works for me now. I figured we just need to keep at it (to reconcile all our truths).

Im very glad you think so ! I will let you in on a secret,Ive only started a couple of threads and Its always quite hard to sit and read replies,if there are any,because its sometimes hard on this forum to express yourself without running a few gauntlets,but I have felt very good about everything I have read here,there appears to be a common wisdom,which I like ,but still smells like centuries of chinese whispers at the same time.
lots of love.

Taurean
2nd August 2011, 02:10
You are a biological computer created to serve the Annunaki.

You were given a memory so that certain tasks could be learned and then left to run on your own.

As a fail safe device you are programmed to crash usually before the age of 100 so that you don't get too clever.

Memories wiped and then re-birthed

Tane Mahuta
2nd August 2011, 09:29
Kid´s answer: We´re here because we´re here!

Adult´s answer: We´re here because [insert blablabla], that´s why we´re here.

Guru/New-agers/Conspiracy theorists answer (always another question even harder): Are we sure we´re here?

Philosopher´s answer: Define "here".

Humble man answer (my answer): I don´t know. I´m almost sure I´m here and, until I find a better place to be, I´ll just be here for as long as I can. In the meantime, I´ll just try to love, to forgive, to understand and to respect this place, so I can concentrate all my efforts, every day, to become a better being/spirit/soul/whatever.

And another beauty!
Heres a funny thing ,RMorgan,the Kids answer :We´re here because we´re here,is the one I agree with and feels more truthful than the others.
(no jokes at my expense please!)
I find that anything else is based in myth and legend and gossip and bumptiousness(tm) for all we know.

My kid would say,...."we're here cause I just woke up!!"

TM

Tony
2nd August 2011, 10:02
I'll take a shot at it. Though it will all depend on perception and what that means to that individual.
What is looking out of my eyes now, and when I was four years old, has never changed. That is my proof.
My body and thoughts have changed, but the something that is aware of this has not. This cannot be ignored.
Well, I suppose it can, and it is!

To discover anything, it has to be worked at. If you want to play the piano one had to learn scales and chord,
and practice practice practice. The reason you practice is because your hear someone playing nicely. They too
learnt by practice practice practice.

The problem with some theories going around is that all you have to do is believe and go from your heart.
All you will then get is...bang bang thump thump! In quite an frustrated aggressive manner.

You want an instant answer, I wanted an instant answer, but we are not ready for it, as it is too simple.

Seek and you will find, is correct. It is in the looking!!! If you find the answer it has already become a
concept. The answer is in the non finding!!!! In looking in and not finding a thing..you are left with pure consciousness.
If I try answer it any more than that, it will only create doubt.

Truth is beyond the word. Do you feel what I am saying?

Tony

loveandgratitude
2nd August 2011, 10:11
The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.

http://www.bnymellon.com/helpingyou/wm_truth/truth.gif

DoubleHelix
2nd August 2011, 10:13
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ whose round is it???

loveandgratitude
2nd August 2011, 10:19
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ who's round is it???

I knew it .............DH
http://gruffguano.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/alien1.jpg?w=320&h=240

Lord Sidious
2nd August 2011, 10:31
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ whose round is it???

Must be yours, tightarse.
Jack Daniels and cola thanks, no ice.

ulli
2nd August 2011, 10:33
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ who's round is it???

I knew it .............DH
http://gruffguano.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/alien1.jpg?w=320&h=240

Oh look!!! The grey has changed colour....beer colour
I wonder what would have happened if he had had too much red wine

Calz
2nd August 2011, 10:45
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ who's round is it???

I knew it .............DH
http://gruffguano.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/alien1.jpg?w=320&h=240

Oh look!!! The grey has changed colour....beer colour
I wonder what would have happened if he had had too much red wine

I think some of the "color coded label" to see if the beer is cold rubbed off and since the "unit" didn't have blue in it's program it improvised.

Now how is *that* for a *cold hard fact* not coming from a human ...

DoubleHelix
2nd August 2011, 10:46
Don't know about yourself but I'm here for the beer ! Speaking of which........ whose round is it???

Must be yours, tightarse.
Jack Daniels and cola thanks, no ice.

Sorry bud I grabbed the last, add a stein of their finest to that order thanks

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2J1Tboh39Zn0R4H2TLpM_a8uMnaVj0 kWn8pRqKUO_DqAppF-w2g

ulli
2nd August 2011, 10:49
So, Calz, does all beer talk turn you into a channel?
Or do you have to drink it as well?

Calz
2nd August 2011, 10:55
Oh dear ... I think we have rather hijacked a nice avalonian's thread ... :sorry:

:offtopic:

PHARAOH
2nd August 2011, 12:33
We are here because we exist!!! We are here because we are our brothers keepers. We are here because we are in service to ourselves. We are here because we are created in the image and likeness of the creator. We are here to realize our fullest potential when we put our minds to doing so. We are here because "We are the world". If this sounds to simple, it is because it is so...

Chucky
2nd August 2011, 12:46
HI there the Trojan,
I reckon I am here to figure that question out!! :)

modwiz
2nd August 2011, 13:18
I do not have the answer. And that is THE TRUTH.

RMorgan
2nd August 2011, 14:29
Kid´s answer: We´re here because we´re here!

Adult´s answer: We´re here because [insert blablabla], that´s why we´re here.

Guru/New-agers/Conspiracy theorists answer (always another question even harder): Are we sure we´re here?

Philosopher´s answer: Define "here".

Humble man answer (my answer): I don´t know. I´m almost sure I´m here and, until I find a better place to be, I´ll just be here for as long as I can. In the meantime, I´ll just try to love, to forgive, to understand and to respect this place, so I can concentrate all my efforts, every day, to become a better being/spirit/soul/whatever.

And another beauty!
Heres a funny thing ,RMorgan,the Kids answer :We´re here because we´re here,is the one I agree with and feels more truthful than the others.
(no jokes at my expense please!)
I find that anything else is based in myth and legend and gossip and bumptiousness(tm) for all we know.

Yeah! If you want to know THE TRUTH, or any kind of truth, ask a kid who just learned how to talk. They are almost like a recently formatted computer, they don´t have much third party software, virus and malicious codes to interfere; They don´t know anything about politics, economics and haven´t read any book that could pollute their pure and simple knowledge! :)

lunaflare
2nd August 2011, 15:15
We are here to remember the creative act of free will.
No beer thanks, makes me bloated

Tony
2nd August 2011, 15:15
Let me try again.
If a thing is true, it can never not be true.
If a thing truly exists, it can never not exists.
What we are looking for is what is constant.
Every thing that comes into existence has a
beginning a middle and an end. So no thing
is real. No thing is true.

Therefore the truth is, that nothing is real.
Nothing has any reality.

So is there anything that is constant?

Space is constant.
Consciousness of that space is constant.
Otherwise nothing would be known.

winston smith1971
2nd August 2011, 15:36
It is obvious to a lot of us that we have some nasty people in positions of power on this planet,and they endeavor to control others for a myriad of reasons.
It is also obvious that there are nice people on this planet in positions of power and they endeavor to gain freedom from the constraints of others.

I dont know why I am here on the planet earth.
I dont know anyone alive who knows why we are here on the planet earth.
If anyone on this forum knows,for an absolute fact ,why we are here and can back it up with hard definitive evidence
and not information passed on from other human beings,
Please bring it to the table and share with all of us.
And please leave out faith or belief or any other human construct.
No theories either ,only cold hard provable fact,and please present your evidence here.
Its either this or we are going around and around in circles.(and thats the lucky ones)

Coincidence or syncronicity but I have just posted this on this threadhttp://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24455-What-if-nothing-happens-in-2012&p=275426#post275426 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?24455-What-if-nothing-happens-
in-2012&p=275426#post275426)

And then i stumble on your thread...

I find normal life, religion, spiritualism and numerous other states, things, levels however you wish to define, comprehend such emotions or whatever deeply puzzling. Sometimes life feels totally unreal and could very well be an Ancestor simulation “matrix” type reality and at other times life is a glorious full Dolby surround, Technicolor 3D event. I do not no what life, reality is. Some people claim they do, they have faith or are spiritual or some other explanation, channelling, physic abilities, remote viewing, near death experiences, reincarnation, abduction, ET experiences etc. What if life is just a fluke, a lucky opportunistic event the right conditions at the correct time or a matrix type of realty, or possible a figment, creation of a more advanced being. I know these very horrible thoughts feelings and I would not want to cause upset, fear or any distress to anybody else… but why wouldn’t I is it because as Icke says Love is the only truth, thing that matters, or did somebody playing” Better Than Life ™” get me to think feel that at a stroke of the keyboard…Cheers Rob, Winston, whoever…

jsb_swampfox
2nd August 2011, 16:20
well...finally here is some truth from the MSM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbrQzOulUY&feature=feedu

RedeZra
2nd August 2011, 16:31
Consciousness is daydreaming

I am a dream of God

and so are you and all the worlds

there is no escape hehe nowhere to hide

I am watching you

<8>
2nd August 2011, 17:25
Hi Trojan..


You are stuck in your left brain!












Well....you askt for it, and the truth hurts sometimes..:P





I can explain for you. But then you learn nothing.

A good clip about how right and left brain works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 20:32
Hi Trojan..


You are stuck in your left brain!












Well....you askt for it, and the truth hurts sometimes..:P





I can explain for you. But then you learn nothing.

A good clip about how right and left brain works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

I have watched this before and have various books on the shelf,including betty edwards ,drawing on the right side of the brain.
I am going to go into that again,thanks for the suggestion.
But will this tell me why we are here and what is true?

<8>
2nd August 2011, 20:46
Nope..


You got to study a bit more my friend.

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 20:54
Hi Trojan..


You are stuck in your left brain!












Well....you askt for it, and the truth hurts sometimes..:P





I can explain for you. But then you learn nothing.

A good clip about how right and left brain works.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU

I have watched this before and have various books on the shelf,including betty edwards ,drawing on the right side of the brain.
I am going to go into that again,thanks for the suggestion.
But will this tell me why we are here and what is true?

No sorry that is just not me,I am a right brain type.I have always been a right brained type.
But you got me thinking,that maybe I am not,
So I thought i would go and do a quick online type of test,I mean ,thats how these things are assessed,yes?
Heres the link,give it a try yourself and have some fun with it.
http://www.wherecreativitygoestoschool.com/vancouver/left_right/rb_test.htm

Oh and the fun test thinks I am right brain led also.

manny
2nd August 2011, 20:57
if you knew the truth.
if you had the answer.
then what would be the piont of your journey.
each person has a different face,set of fingerprints,dna.
so the truth may be different for each of us.
good luck with your journey.;)

<8>
2nd August 2011, 21:12
Thanks for the link there Trojan.


About study.

It was the right path for me to get to the truth. But who am i to say, that is the right way for you.

I guess i was thinking you needed as much info your left brain can take, to let go in a way..

I apologize if i offended you.

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 21:12
Nope..


You got to study a bit more my friend.

No offence 8,but that is the worst answer yet.
Dont you hate it when someone answers a question as if they already know the answer ,
but are not willing to share it,and then tell you to find out the answer they know, by studying some more.
More what?
Is this a suggestion that I may need some academic input ?
Or spiritual input?

Again my friend ,I mean no offence,i am only repeating this in order to keep this thread as lovely and warm as it has been.

<8>
2nd August 2011, 21:32
well as i say there, i am sorry.

But i got you thinking as you pointed out..:) (that was my goal)

Many times i was thinking: Ok now i think i got it. And i turnd a new stone and my life was upside down ones more.
Now i understand that my left brain needed to do that.

<8>
2nd August 2011, 21:46
Hmmm i did not answer you. (bad me)..:)

Well in my view: When i see someone asking for the truth, they need to study more. Study what! Well anything i guess. (I am not you) But when i look around at people who are working wid them selfs. I know they got where i am now. Some people dont have to turn every stone to get there. (thank god)

the trojan
2nd August 2011, 22:37
well as i say there, i am sorry.

But i got you thinking as you pointed out..:) (that was my goal)

Many times i was thinking: Ok now i think i got it. And i turnd a new stone and my life was upside down ones more.
Now i understand that my left brain needed to do that.

you made me smile too,my friend.
lots of love to you.

DeDukshyn
2nd August 2011, 23:14
Let me try again.
If a thing is true, it can never not be true.
If a thing truly exists, it can never not exists.
What we are looking for is what is constant.
Every thing that comes into existence has a
beginning a middle and an end. So no thing
is real. No thing is true.

Therefore the truth is, that nothing is real.
Nothing has any reality.

So is there anything that is constant?

Space is constant.
Consciousness of that space is constant.
Otherwise nothing would be known.

Great post pie! But if I understand your terms correctly, "space" only exists to hold "form" --once form is no longer needed, neither will "space".

Native Americans - especially back to Toltec wisdom claimed space did not really exist, only the "Nagual" -- the potential of form.

DeDukshyn
2nd August 2011, 23:38
The only thing real to me is this: I AM (I EXIST as a point of consciousness)
The reason I am here: TO EXPERIENCE THE DREAM
The thing that I do: DREAM MY DREAM

Everything else steps down from that based on "reasons" which I tend to laugh at - "reasons" are the ego's construct and the ego is an artificial consciousness - so everything below this gets into levels of illusion. The only Truths are LOVE and EXPERIENCE - everything else is a level of illusion - depending on what measurement your current perspective demands. - even "cold hard facts" are part illusion based on "reasons"

Consider this is definitely how children see the world ...

It's hard to wrap a head around, you have undo everything you ever learned in all your life .... even the "cold hard facts", to actually get to the truth ... it's damn elusive!

ADDITION: In further thinking, the only thing that is real is the EXPERIENCE - to step that down any further is an INTERPRETATION of that experience which again is subjective ... EXPERIENCE truly is the only thing that is real ... and yet is unique to each individual ... so no common reality exists - only the fact that each is experiencing .... hmmm, that was good for me too ... ;)

DeDukshyn
3rd August 2011, 02:35
Let me try to add some more - with children as an example again .. what do children always eventually gravitate to? Play ... always play. don Miguel Ruiz (i've been using him a lot lately .. ;)) wrote once that when (paraphrased) children play "adults" they put on their serious / angry face and boss each other, etc. well this is true .. as opposed to ... play. If you combine some "play" with what I wrote above ... I think you can understand a motive for existence ... play! it'd be worth it to me to exist for just that ... another thing to ponder ;) life is good my friend!

Taurean
3rd August 2011, 13:01
Homo Erectus - > Homo Sapiens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O595BoLHeuU&feature=related

What does not make sense is that I don't think the Annunaki would want to spend the first 12 - 14 years or so wiping their backsides and rearing them. so maybe the original types were incubated or something similar. Then at a later stage they took a rib out of one of them and created a woman and a reproductive system was added. - well Myths have got to start somewhere .

DeDukshyn
4th August 2011, 00:00
Homo Erectus - > Homo Sapiens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O595BoLHeuU&feature=related

What does not make sense is that I don't think the Annunaki would want to spend the first 12 - 14 years or so wiping their backsides and rearing them. so maybe the original types were incubated or something similar. Then at a later stage they took a rib out of one of them and created a woman and a reproductive system was added. - well Myths have got to start somewhere .

I see your point .. who in their right mind would create a human; we are seriously messed up. It would not be worth it at all to try to raise us for slavery, I'm sure any genetic engineer these days could create a far better slave .... We were created for a vastly different reason, but may have ended but perceiving ourselves as slaves or attempted to be used as slaves for others. But in my mind it does not make any sense to create a "human" (as we know it) as a slave - we are just far too dangerous for that ... not logical. MHO. ;)

RAZ
5th August 2011, 01:00
COLD HARD FACTS: A block of ice (water) @ 30 degrees F..

For the Eskimos, this would be as a balmy summer’s day, take the clothes off, go for a swim, suntan. Feels warm…
For the Matses, (Amazon rainforest) this would require taking the Eskimos clothes & putting them on. Feels cold…

Two different experiences (ones own truth), one temperature.

If anyone has lived together (marriage, family, partner) for any length of time, then you’ve experienced (your truth) the thermostat wars.

Often what we call a tragedy today can in time become a valuable experience. When I was younger & feeling depressed, my Mother gave me a book written by Helen Keller. It wasn’t until I finished, that I learned she was blind & deaf. Many a tear were shed from that experience (my truth) & thus began my search for what is true in life.
Ones experience, even though different than another for the same event is just that, an experience, we give the labels for what it means….and is.

We are here to simply experience……you fill in the ……

Tony
5th August 2011, 08:48
Let me try again.
If a thing is true, it can never not be true.
If a thing truly exists, it can never not exists.
What we are looking for is what is constant.
Every thing that comes into existence has a
beginning a middle and an end. So no thing
is real. No thing is true.

Therefore the truth is, that nothing is real.
Nothing has any reality.

So is there anything that is constant?

Space is constant.
Consciousness of that space is constant.
Otherwise nothing would be known.

Great post pie! But if I understand your terms correctly, "space" only exists to hold "form" --once form is no longer needed, neither will "space".

Native Americans - especially back to Toltec wisdom claimed space did not really exist, only the "Nagual" -- the potential of form.

Hello DeDukshy,

Space is infinite. Having no dimension. Whatever you do with the bit of space in front of you IT will never change.

Space is empty. All phenomena are empty. Consciousness is empty.
This emptiness has a quality of knowing and compassion. That is our true nature. You are 'pure' consciousness, which cannot be said to exist or not exist.
Below is the heart sutra, which may explain better.


Then, through the power of the Buddha, venerable Shariputra said to noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, "How should a son or daughter of noble family train, who wishes to practice the profound prajnaparamita?"

Addressed in this way, noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, said to venerable Shariputra, "O Shariputra, a son or daughter of noble family who wishes to practice the profound prajnaparamita should see in this way: seeing the five skandhas to be empty of nature. Form is emptiness; emptiness also is form. Emptiness is no other than form; form is no other than emptiness. In the same way, feeling, perception, formation, and consciousness are emptiness. Thus, Shariputra, all dharmas are emptiness. There are no characteristics. There is no birth and no cessation. There is no impurity and no purity. There is no decrease and no increase. Therefore, Shariputra, in emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no appearance, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no dharmas; no eye dhatu up to no mind dhatu, no dhatu of dharmas, no mind consciousness dhatu; no ignorance, no end of ignorance up to no old age and death, no end of old age and death; no suffering, no origin of suffering, no cessation of suffering, no path, no wisdom, no attainment, and no nonattainment. Therefore, Shariputra, since the bodhisattvas have no attainment, they abide by means of prajnaparamita. Since there is no obscuration of mind, there is no fear. They transcend falsity and attain complete nirvana. All the buddhas of the three times, by means of prajnaparamita, fully awaken to unsurpassable, true, complete enlightenment. Therefore, the great mantra of prajnaparamita, the mantra of great insight, the unsurpassed mantra, the unequaled mantra, the mantra that calms all suffering, should be known as truth, since there is no deception. The prajnaparamita mantra is said in this way:

OM GATE GATE PARA GATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA


All the best
Tony

Omni connexae!
5th August 2011, 11:20
Hello Trojan,

Why are we here?

Well, why is a tricky question.

Why implies intent.

If we are searching for a why outside of ourselves (which seems to be the context of your thread, correct me if I'm wrong), we are automatically implying that there is a being or beings with intent for us to be here. The 'why' question would then seek to answer for what reasons this being or beings had for putting us here.

Ofc, no one on this board, or any, is in a position to provide evidence for a being that created our race. Therefore, one could never begin to prove why they created us - for what reason they created us.

I suppose one could speculate tho, and it wouldn't be the first time we humans have tried either. All throughout recorded history up to this very day, there is plenty example of such, so I wont bother sharing my own speculation, unless you want me too.

But, why must there be a why? :noidea:

Besides our own emotional needs, I see no reason.

Although I, nor anyone, can't prove such a 'why', one can prove that an outside 'why', or being, is not necessary for our existence based on our best collective understanding. In other words, considering everything we have learned, there is absolutly nothing that would suggest that an outside being, or intent, is a needed condition for our existence. So basically, we have "evidence of absence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence)". However, as the notable skeptic James Randi famously used to say "You can't prove a negative". This is pretty much as far as we can empirically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism) go with such notions for now.

And that, my friend, is the truth.

Someoneson1
5th August 2011, 12:46
The only way I have come to understand the truth is; first, I had an Impeccable  experience after I gave up (deep depresion) then I had an idea (seed) then I studied with my inner guide, (practice)

However as the enemy or error is a thought system that shares space in my mind I had to learn how to quit thinking and start being so I could become privy to revelation (or remembering) then I had an inkling, as my mind hushed the inkling became more clear and nine years later a clear picture has held true. It passed the test of time an has emerged as whole. "this is just a dream" or "when this heaven and this hell pass away a new or (original) heaven will be restored.

bodhii71
6th August 2011, 14:37
Love, Laughter, Learning, and most importantly, LOVE.