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IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 08:56
I just came across this great site and I think most people here see this as the vision for the future so I wanted to share.

Please read the site, watch the video and share with all your friends :cool:

The Free World Charter is a set of principles that have the potential to optimise life on Earth for all species, eradicate human poverty and greed, and advance progress exponentially.

Neither political nor religious, the ten short principles of the Charter could form the foundation of a new, advanced society that uses no money, is free, fair and sustainable. They are based solely on common sense, Nature and survival.

This is our world, and we can solve many of our problems today and have a better society, by following just a few simple rules of Nature.

Please read and sign The Free World Charter today at:
http://www.freeworldcharter.org

rvDKTRgoSS8

Violet
25th August 2011, 09:17
Theoretically, it sounds nice, but not all humans are good-willed and I think that this system too will soon suffer from those with bad intentions.

After all, how did our current system come into existence? It's not like Earth was created with a financial manual indicating our current financial system.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 09:23
We are always evolving, from bartering to a monetary system and this seems like the next logical step forward. I'm not saying the monetary system is wrong per say, just that we are out-growing it now. We are ready for something new. The next step!

Maybe many humans aren't good-willed because of the system they are in. It creates negative feelings of jealousy, inadequacy and lack. I think in the new system many 'bad-willed' humans would change their ways. Money is the cause of many problems in society. If all their needs were met would they really feel the need to steal?

It seems like a no-brainer to me if you offered someone the chance to stay in the current system of corrupt, forced inequality and work to struggle to make ends meet yet still not have everything they desire or work in a job they enjoy and have everything they need which would they choose?

I'm not saying that all problems would cease to exist because problems are natural and a great way for us to advance and learn. But this system obviously isn't meeting everybody's needs so let's try something new.

Violet
25th August 2011, 09:40
We are always evolving, from bartering to a monetary system and this seems like the next logical step forward. I'm not saying the monetary system is wrong per say, just that we are out-growing it now. We are ready for something new. The next step!

Maybe many humans aren't good-willed because of the system they are in. It creates negative feelings of jealousy, inadequacy and lack. I think in the new system many 'bad-willed' humans would change their ways. Money is the cause of many problems in society. If all their needs were met would they really feel the need to steal?

It seems like a no-brainer to me if you offered someone the chance to stay in the current system of corrupt, forced inequality and work to struggle to make ends meet yet still not have everything they desire or work in a job they enjoy and have everything they need which would they choose?

I'm not saying that all problems would cease to exist because problems are natural and a great way for us to advance and learn. But this system obviously isn't meeting everybody's needs so let's try something new.

I'm not sure about entirely free. A very basic form of trade can be beneficial and honest as well. If I have land with lots of vegetables on it and my neighbour is a good baker lacking vegetables, we could work something out.

I too don't like the current system. All the needless suffering amidst this planet's generous abundance is unjust and outrageous.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 09:53
I'm not sure about entirely free. A very basic form of trade can be beneficial and honest as well. If I have land with lots of vegetables on it and my neighbour is a good baker lacking vegetables, we could work something out.

That is taking a step backwards, going back to bartering. To take a step forwards it means changing our mind-set. Rather than thinking, 'I've give that person so much, so they should give me something in return' (service to self pattern), we can change our thinking to 'I've given that person xxx, just because I wanted to help them.' (service to others). When we live in service to others the world naturally becomes a better place to live.

We have been programmed for so long to focus on what we should 'get' in return for things we do. Maybe all we need is the feeling of gratitude and knowing that we are doing good and helping others and making them feel good. That is actually quite a nice feeling. This does require a transition from living primarily from the ego, to living primarily from the heart though.

Ernie Nemeth
25th August 2011, 09:55
Money is the only thing you do not need.

Funny how it has become the most important thing in our world.

DoubleHelix
25th August 2011, 10:04
You wanna be free? Ok follow me...

http://thecrowhouse.com/images/372.gif

lol

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 10:09
Oh no! Not about following someone else at all!!

Freedom comes from within. When we break free internally, the freedom will manifest on the outside. I think it is happening and that's why we are seeing so many of these new ideas pop up about how to live with money etc...it highlights the transition we are making in the inner and outer world!

Russ1959
25th August 2011, 10:17
The money would be less important if it were free too!

pickle
25th August 2011, 10:20
As you say Indigo S, freedom comes from within, and for mankind to live this way we'd then be in position of valuing everything that truly matters, without the distractions that have caused every problem we've faced.

Being free, of money or transactions for what we do, is a giant leap, though some may you're a dreamer...

...You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one...

One day it will happen, I hope I'm here to see it.


Peace,

Pickle

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 10:44
We have a long way to go before a moneyless society is a feasible option.

(Assuming we want to make progress.)

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 10:49
We have a long way to go before a moneyless society is a feasible option.

(Assuming we want to make progress.)

Thoughts create reality. If that's what you believe, that's what you will see in the outer world. How about we change that sentence to something along the lines of .....

"Moneyless society as a feasable option is here now because people are awakened and have open-hearts."

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 10:50
We have a long way to go before a moneyless society is a feasible option.

(Assuming we want to make progress.)

Thoughts create reality. If that's what you believe, that's what you will see in the outer world. How about we change that sentence to something along the lines of .....

"Moneyless society as a feasable option is here now because people are awakened and have open-hearts."

Well, I like my understanding to be based on the real world.

We can have great discussions on what human nature really is, how we can co-exist alot better then we do now etc. and I think these are important questions and topics we really need to bring forward and answer in society. However, being ignorant will do us no favors in the long run.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 10:55
Well, I like my understanding to be based on the real world.

Yes your understanding IS based on the real world. It was created by thoughts and feelings previous to what you see now. I'm suggesting we consciously co-create a different kind of world.

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 10:57
Well, I like my understanding to be based on the real world.

Yes your understanding IS based on the real world. It was created by thoughts and feelings previous to what you see now. I'm suggesting we consciously co-create a different kind of world.

Does our minds require a universe in order to exist? Or does the universe require our minds in order to exist? :confused:

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 11:05
Does our minds require a universe in order to exist? Or does the universe require our minds in order to exist? :confused:

I'm gonna go with the universe requires our minds in order to exist. Nice question though!

Is the universe a holographic projection of our minds?
Is one able to exist without the other?

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 11:17
I'm gonna go with the universe requires our minds in order to exist.

Then this is where we disagree, and basically stems our disagreements from before, respectively.


Is one able to exist without the other?

My position is: a universe is able to exist without a mind, a mind is not able to exist without a universe.

It's a tricky question though! and I could go on and on about it, which is pretty off topic, might be an intresting idea for new thread.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 11:19
I'm gonna go with the universe requires our minds in order to exist.

Then this is where we disagree, and basically stems our disagreements from before, respectively.


Is one able to exist without the other?

My position is: a universe is able to exist without a mind, a mind is not able to exist without a universe.

It's a tricky question though! and I could go on and on about it, which is pretty off topic, might be an intresting idea for new thread.

Yep definitely gets me thinking and I'd like to hear your reasons behind your belief so start a thread about it! :)

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 11:31
Yep definitely gets me thinking and I'd like to hear your reasons behind your belief so start a thread about it! :)

Okay, I'll work on something, I see the benefits of exploring the topic in this forum. It's a vast notion though and touches on 'how do we know anything' for example so it may take a while, we'll see how it goes. :p

raymond
25th August 2011, 12:16
If everything is free, then it would make it much harder for the negative beings to distract us from our meditations and much more difficult for them to hinder us in our efforts to regain higher consciousness.

:rolleyes:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

some of us don't really wanna waste our time and energy in making money or building a family

we want the highest consciousness and nothing else

KosmicKat
25th August 2011, 12:18
We have been programmed for so long to focus on what we should 'get' in return for things we do.
Can you imagine living in a world in which you don't have to ask for anything, but you ask those around you what they need? or better yet, offer them what you have that you think they might benefit from? It would require a great deal more trust (at least, on my part) that we would receive what we need, and it also assumes that no-one would avoid contact with others but it could also transform our society!

Alan
25th August 2011, 12:27
Great idea, but the video did not help me to imagine how this could really work.

Would there still be possessions? With no money how would one come to possess something? Especially land? Luxury items?

Maybe the idea should start with just making necessities free -- food, water, BASIC shelter, internet ;-).

I agree that resources ARE somewhat plentiful, but not everything is.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 12:43
[QUOTE=IndigoStar;292460] It would require a great deal more trust (at least, on my part) that we would receive what we need, and it also assumes that no-one would avoid contact with others but it could also transform our society!

Society at the moment is based on complete trust of governments to cater for our every need. We have seen their corruption. We have seen that many people don't have their needs met (yet those in power have MORE than their fair share of everything). We are just so used to being in this system that it is hard for people to see a different way of living. People are scared of change.

What do you mean by assuming nobody avoids contact with others? Are you wondering how solitary people would feel in that kind of environment?

I think society is on the brink of a well needed transformation!

ktlight
25th August 2011, 12:45
I signed and noticed that there is product for cash sale???

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 12:51
Would there still be possessions?

Yes, hi-tech possessions for everyone, free-energy and advanced technology that is being kept secret at the moment. But hopefuly the focus wouldn't be on 'how many possessions can I get' 'how much stuff can I acquire.' Hopefully people would transition to living from the heart in harmony with the earth, where material goods aren't the focus.


With no money how would one come to possess something? Especially land? Luxury items?

We divide equally amongst everybody. (Yeh sounds kinda communist lol) but surely it's fairer for everybody to have equal. Again, the emphasis is, it isn't about viewing this from the 'how much has that family got/they've got more than me' perspective. It's about living in harmony with the earth and all the people. Luxury items wouldn't really exist because everybody could have everything. Let's take designer clothes for example, they only exist to create divisions between rich and poor. So if only 1 company made clothes and made the highest quality possible with a wide variety of styles to suit all, luxury clothes wouldn't exist. Same goes for watches. Everybody would have the best we can possibly create.


Maybe the idea should start with just making necessities free -- food, water, BASIC shelter, internet ;-).

I agree that resources ARE somewhat plentiful, but not everything is.

Yes that would be a great start, and a nice way to make the transition towards free living. I also agree that plentiful resources does not mean we go crazy and exploit them. I think we should use from the earth only what we need and respect her.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I signed and noticed that there is product for cash sale???

I didn't see that. What do you mean exactly? Was it an advert on the page?

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 13:06
IndigoStar,

Are you suggesting we abolish money, share everything equaly, and then just hope people get along and everything works out for the best? Or that we all focus our thoughts and manifest this reality and it will just happen?

Those hi-tech gizmos you say we could all have access to, or the 'free energy'... did they just pop into existence because someone thought about it, and therefore they then 'manifested' into reality?

Can you manifest me a sandwich? I'm feeling kinda hungry :P

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 13:15
IndigoStar,

Are you suggesting we abolish money, share everything equaly, and then just hope people get along and everything works out for the best?

Well I like alamojo's suggestion of making some things free first. I think people need a slow transition, not just a sudden, instant change. So we could start by making water free and I think people mostly understand the need to conserve it, so a lot of education regarding not over using water would be good, ie on tv etc. (just for the idiots that might say ohhhhhh free waterrrr and leave their tap (faucet) on 24/7 just for the hell of it! )

So we could start with free water, then maybe move to free gas etc, slow transition like that and see how it goes.
It would be nice to see one of those computer simulation models that can predict how society would react to certain events!

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Those hi-tech gizmos you say we could all have acess to, or the 'free energy'... did they just pop into existence because someone thought about it, and therefore they then 'manifested' into reality?

Can you manifest me a sandwich? I'm feeling kinda hungry :P

They already exist : ) Check out what sony can make nowadays! Our tech is moving very fast! Bear in mind that what comes into the public is filtered to us slowly so that they can make more money out of it, so a new model is released purposefully every year or so, then we all have to buy more to update. Cut all that out and we get to some really hot s@*t that is already out there, not to mention what TPTW have got hidden under their sleeves.

Manifest one yourself lazy boy :p

Omni connexae!
25th August 2011, 13:31
I think people need a slow transition, not just a sudden, instant change.

Well I agree with you on this one,


It would be nice to see one of those computer simulation models that can predict how society would react to certain events!

Now there's a thought, that would be very intresting to see! I have thought about this before in regaurds to how different ethics and morality theorys would effect peoples interactions on a large scale, and yes I also see how this could aid us very much when designing social and economic systems. However, our understanding of human nature isn't complete yet, so we can't make simulations that are 100% accurate (probaly could never get "100%" accuracy, but close enough).



Those hi-tech gizmos you say we could all have acess to, or the 'free energy'... did they just pop into existence because someone thought about it, and therefore they then 'manifested' into reality?

Can you manifest me a sandwich? I'm feeling kinda hungry :P

They already exist : ) Check out what sony can make nowadays! Our tech is moving very fast! Bear in mind that what comes into the public is filtered to us slowly so that they can make more money out of it, so a new model is released purposefully every year or so, then we all have to buy more to update. Cut all that out and we get to some really hot s@*t that is already out there, not to mention what TPTW have got hidden under their sleeves.



Yeah, the tech they have now is great and no doubt: alot is likely withheld from the public. There is also the issue of planned obsolescence etc. and imo, in a sane world we would build things that last!

But my point is, such technology comes from building a solid understanding of our surroundings and how it works, and then working with that. Rather then just 'hoping' it will work, or believing it will work. I do agree we should have a possitive outlook, and be hopeful where we can, but it's a fine line between possitivity and delusion. The less hope required, the better =)


Manifest one yourself lazy boy :p

Haha, ok :o

risveglio
25th August 2011, 13:49
Won't this just lead to what we already have today. Half of the people working to produce what society needs while the other half just uses the free stuff?

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 13:50
But my point is, such technology comes from building a solid understanding of our surroundings and how it works, and then working with that. Rather then just 'hoping' it will work, or believing it will work. I do agree we should have a possitive outlook, and be hopeful where we can, but it's a fine line between possitivity and delusion. The less hope required, the better =)

Well I think the first step is to awaken people from the slumber they have been hypnotised/drugged into and open their minds to new possibility. I think the video is effective in doing that.

Hope is linked to dreams. Dreams create reality (we are back to the first discussion). We need dreams, we need vision, we need people that think outside the box, that see new ways of doing things. That is how we advance. We need imagination and creativity. These are all beautiful aspects of humans. When combined with groundedness and scientific thinking we can create anything we can think of. Our potential is limitless.

Question - do you believe that humanity will evolve beyond the need for a monetary system? If so, what do you believe is the next step forward? Do you think that humanity is ready for a change?



Manifest one yourself lazy boy :p

Haha, ok :o

How was your sandwich? ;)

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 13:55
Won't this just lead to what we already have today. Half of the people working to produce what society needs while the other half just uses the free stuff?

Nope, everybody contributes, just as they do now. Of course it only works if people understand certain concepts! It's not about 'let me do as little as possible and get as much as I can' which is the prevalent thought in society, it's about thinking 'what can I do to help better this world for everyone.' Once people are free from worry of debt and survival they are able to focus on their life purpose. Why have they come here? What are their skills? What can they contribute?

thunder24
25th August 2011, 13:57
Won't this just lead to what we already have today. Half of the people working to produce what society needs while the other half just uses the free stuff?

Nope, everybody contributes, just as they do now. Of course it only works if people understand certain concepts! It's not about 'let me do as little as possible and get as much as I can' which is the prevalent thought in society, it's about thinking 'what can I do to help better this world for everyone.' Once people are free from worry of debt and survival they are able to focus on their life purpose. Why have they come here? What are their skills? What can they contribute?

what will keep them from being users still....those that have always been?

peace

risveglio
25th August 2011, 13:58
Won't this just lead to what we already have today. Half of the people working to produce what society needs while the other half just uses the free stuff?

Nope, everybody contributes, just as they do now. Of course it only works if people understand certain concepts! It's not about 'let me do as little as possible and get as much as I can' which is the prevalent thought in society, it's about thinking 'what can I do to help better this world for everyone.' Once people are free from worry of debt and survival they are able to focus on their life purpose. Why have they come here? What are their skills? What can they contribute?

Wonderful idea but we wouldn't have the problems we have today if everybody contributed. That's the problem. How do you get everyone to contribute. If I know the farmer is going to grow my food and it is free, what is going to stop me from hanging out on the beach all day, eating the free food and drinking the free beer while the farmer slaves under the hot sun to feed me?

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:01
what will keep them from being users still....those that have always been? peace

I'd say that is the main issue. Anyone got any suggestions?

Maybe they will have a super fast transformation of consciousness in the coming times?
Maybe mother earth will 'cleanse' herself of lower vibratory beings to make way for a new earth?
Maybe the earth's cell will split into 2 and those who wish to continue in the 3d rat race will do so on one earth and those ready to 'ascend' will move with a 5d earth and create a new reality?

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:08
Wonderful idea but we wouldn't have the problems we have today if everybody contributed. That's the problem. How do you get everyone to contribute. If I know the farmer is going to grow my food and it is free, what is going to stop me from hanging out on the beach all day, eating the free food and drinking the free beer while the farmer slaves under the hot sun to feed me?

Once again this is coming from a 'service to self' ego based thought pattern. This system is based on 'service to others' heart based action/thinking. It doesn't work like you described. Change of thought patterns is required. You can have everything you need, the best of the best of everything. Contribution is required by all, in terms of what can I do to help others as opposed to what can I get for myself!

risveglio
25th August 2011, 14:08
I think the problem is that money is not the problem. Money in its true definition is just a way to measure your services. Money does not become a problem until you inject governments and banks that charge interest. If money was sound and did not lose value through these manipulative factors then it would continue to be a way to just measure your services.

thunder24
25th August 2011, 14:13
These Ideals are great....but how will consciouness shift that quick...not saying it won't....but i don;t think it will.

are you willing to kick out service to self people in this "free" place?

what if they won't leave?

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:14
I think the problem is that money is not the problem. Money in its true definition is just a way to measure your services. Money does not become a problem until you inject governments and banks that charge interest. If money was sound and did not lose value through these manipulative factors then it would continue to be a way to just measure your services.

I'm talking about moving beyond the system of bartering. Beyond trying to 'get' as much as we can and moving towards 'giving' as much as we can. Just because we want to!
Service to others as opposed to service to self!
The outer world is a reflection of the inner - if we are all trying to get as much as we can for our services then that is why we have created a society where we are controlled by banks, they are a mirror reflection of our inner state. If we start trying to give as much as we can, the outer world will change. We can't blame the banks and governments, they are showing us what we have inside ourselves.

Shamz
25th August 2011, 14:15
I am all in for no charge to resources that our mother earth produces - water - wind - food etc. But in the current situation or mess that the world is in - 99.9% population controlled by only 0.1% - everything free will not work. Where will the incentive for someone to innovate come from ? Also on other thought, if all is free - that means we are dependent on others to give us something which we don't have - there can be chaos if people don't get what they need -- that means there will be some form of control by the Govt. and that in turn would mean that we will be dependent on the Govt. to provide us everything. Isn't this what the Govt./Elites already want?? Common people begging them for their basic needs?
Unless there is major change in the conscious level of the entire planet - Free stuff will not work. Just my 2 cents.

~Love

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:19
These Ideals are great....but how will consciouness shift that quick...not saying it won't....but i don;t think it will.

are you willing to kick out service to self people in this "free" place?

what if they won't leave?

I don't think anybody should be kicked out. I don't think this system should be enforced. I don't think it will happen until the planetary consciousness has been raised.

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:23
I am all in for no charge to resources that our mother earth produces - water - wind - food etc. But in the current situation or mess that the world is in - 99.9% population controlled by only 0.1% - everything free will not work. Where will the incentive for someone to innovate come from ? Also on other thought, if all is free - that means we are dependent on others to give us something which we don't have - there can be chaos if people don't get what they need -- that means there will be some form of control by the Govt. and that in turn would mean that we will be dependent on the Govt. to provide us everything. Isn't this what the Govt./Elites already want?? Common people begging them for their basic needs?
Unless there is major change in the conscious level of the entire planet - Free stuff will not work. Just my 2 cents. ~Love

Innovation - it is in our nature to explore, discover, imagine, create, wonder. This natural nature of humankind has been crushed by the system in place. If all our needs were met, the innovation would return. We would want to build, explore, discover, just because it's fun and exciting! Depend on each other yes, work as a team yes, behave like a family unit yes, as opposed to competing against each other and mistrusting each other like we do now. Imagine if you COULD depend on your fellow humans. How great would that feeling be!

risveglio
25th August 2011, 14:24
I think the problem is that money is not the problem. Money in its true definition is just a way to measure your services. Money does not become a problem until you inject governments and banks that charge interest. If money was sound and did not lose value through these manipulative factors then it would continue to be a way to just measure your services.

I'm talking about moving beyond the system of bartering. Beyond trying to 'get' as much as we can and moving towards 'giving' as much as we can. Just because we want to!
Service to others as opposed to service to self!
The outer world is a reflection of the inner - if we are all trying to get as much as we can for our services then that is why we have created a society where we are controlled by banks, they are a mirror reflection of our inner state. If we start trying to give as much as we can, the outer world will change. We can't blame the banks and governments, they are showing us what we have inside ourselves.

But you are talking about something that has to happen in every human being on the planet. It's unrealistic. You could have the same utopian idea by saying we will all love and try to help our fellow man help himself. Great idea, but how do you propose to make it happen. The richest man I know personally is also the most generous. He is not trying to get as much as he can for himself. He is just successful at what he does and because he came from nothing he shares with the less fortunate. The money is not the issue. Greed and laziness is the issue but I don't see how removing money solves that problem. Governments and Banks are definitely a problem because they take away from the market principles taught in the greatest economic books of all time. They pin us against each other.

truthseekerdan
25th August 2011, 14:25
Sadly, the money system is the 'current material god (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13:5&version=NIVUK)' that most people aspire to acquire more at almost any cost. No wonder some currency bills (US) have the phrase "In god we trust" -- it works like a bait to keep people not looking for the 'real god (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:21&version=NIVUK)' (divine) within their heart.

http://www.valdosta.edu/~lomartin/1%20dollar%20bill.jpg

thunder24
25th August 2011, 14:25
what will keep negative beings from invadeing and taking over again?

peace
we are in 3d so we think in 3d no?

IndigoStar
25th August 2011, 14:50
what will keep negative beings from invadeing and taking over again?
peace
we are in 3d so we think in 3d no?

Yeh that's my challenge - I'm in 3d but think in 5d so live between 2 worlds : S

NeverMind
25th August 2011, 16:46
First of all, how would everything be "free"?
Someone would have to work the fields - which is anything but easy. In fact, it is back-breaking work, always dependent on Nature's mercy.
And even if it were easy, such work represents a value.
How would non-ploughing members of the community remunerate the ploughing people?
It doesn't matter how - they would have to remunerate them somehow, which means that their work would NOT be free.

Also, I am assuming we would have to do away with books and, well, everything that does not represent an essential tool for physical survival.

Is physical survival enough?
Clearly, the answeris NO, or our history would not be what it is.

And now, I am quoting directly from that website:



It is not a change of economic policy - it is a complete 'system reset' of basic human values, which have become distorted over time.

Are they serious?
How exactly would they "reset" the human values of individuals?
Or do individuals not exist in such a society?

Of course they can try, if given the chance.
There have been experiments involving the resetting of values.

The 1789 French revolution - followed by terror - was one.
In 1917 there was another one, this time in Russia - followed by terror.
And in Germany, in 1933 - followed by terror.
Mao's cultural revolution, from 1949 onwards, was yet another one - followed by terror.

Terror is not the only thing they have in common.
They also have in common the fact that none of them were successful at "resetting values".

Futurism is nothing new. But human nature has the unpleasant habit of getting in the way of successful "resettings".
Hence the need for terror.

Men are what they are because of an inherent "weakness" that can be observed throughout the universe as we know it: always seeking the path of least resistance. Everything, including our bodies and psychology, is geared towards a certain "economy". (And all too often, this may be translated into what we call laziness, shunning anything that is physically or psychologically taxing.)

Our psychology - and even physiology - tend to always seek the path of least resistance. That is true of all other organisms of this Earth.
That may be because entropy rules the day. It is our greatest "enemy".

Now, add to this fear (= the feeling of lack of security), which comes largely from ignorance (of the higher realities of life - of "eternity", if you will).

From this perspective try to envisage the first famine that mankind experienced consciously. Maybe there was too much rain, or there was not enough rain, or there was a fire - or anything you can think of - but suddenly man could no longer reach for a fruit or draw from the winter reserves of grains, fruit, etc. S/he didn't have enough to feed himself and his/her family; but others still had their shares. So, the only way to survive was to forcibly take the shares of other people. and later, to ensure one's prosperity by gaining ever more land - and keeping others off it. That's how wars started, too.

Fear, ignorance and good old entropy made man what (s)he is.
And IF we have made any progress at all, it is - ironically - largly because of the unfair partition of work and property.

Ask yourself: when and where did philosophy and other "luxury" disciplines of the mind start?
In societies where there was slavery. In societies where certain people did not have to work physically to sustain themselves, so they had the leisure to THINK. They developed a mental framework in which "surplus" values and notions and needs, such as art, arose. The homo ludens that was probably in our DNA (so to speak) from the beginning suddenly could thrive.

(This initial civilisational framework was later vitally tempered and built-upon - in the West - by Christianity, which introduced the values of "social care", to put it simply. This was not a value before, but in time became to be seen as an essential tenet of civilisation, even among people who were not Christians.)

This mental infrastructure is essential to what we today consider "quality of life".
Some people may be happy by just surviving contentedly. It's their right. Everyone has their path.
But many are not. I am not.
I would not be happy just working and eating and sleeping.

The homo ludens needs "play" - non-essential, "superfluous" activities - as much as s/he needs air and food.
Think of money in terms "play time".

I don't think that reverting to bartering would work long-term - it could only be seen as an temporary measure in times of extreme hardship. Like I said, we need "play", too.
Or, to put it more realistically, even if you or I do not, there will be thousands who will not relinquish the desire to "play" (i.e. to indulge in things that are not essential to physical survival - but they may be to cultural survival. Or do these people, the advocates of "everything free", think that culture is unnecessary?)

What would the proponents of such a regime propose we do with those who won't give up "playing"?
Kill them?
Shun them, so they die of hunger?

In effect, we would be throwing away thousands of years of beautiful dreams and thought work to go back to non-thinking, non-yearning subsistence... which would eventually bring us back to the point where our present civilisation started, all over again.

I will end this with a concrete proposal to the advocates of "everything free", that actually is doable and does not require too cataclismic changes in the fabric of society and indivividual psychology itself.

Let things proceed as they are now - but offer those who cannot pay for something - anything - with money the option of paying for it with something else they can do, a product or a service.

This would be viable, and it would be a good idea to develop it. In fact, it could be argued that it would represent a major step towards eradicating poverty, or at least towards a more equitable distribution of goods.
Let's open "banks" of services and products, so that everyone can buy anything they want.
Even with money, if they wish. ;)

NeverMind
25th August 2011, 17:06
Once again this is coming from a 'service to self' ego based thought pattern. This system is based on 'service to others' heart based action/thinking. It doesn't work like you described. Change of thought patterns is required. You can have everything you need, the best of the best of everything. Contribution is required by all, in terms of what can I do to help others as opposed to what can I get for myself!

IndigoStar, I can see you mean well, and I really really appreciate that.
But this is tantamount to speculating "what if rivers were made of milk and lakes made of honey"?
It ain't gonna happen.
Humanity IS what it is.
Any plan that is not based on actual human nature is doomed to failure - but it usually also entails the doom of thousands and millions of citizens, before it collapses.
History has shown us that, again and again.
(I've explained this in my previous post, so no need for me to rehash my own words.)

vibrations
25th August 2011, 17:54
Let me tell you what I think about it. It was 20 years ago, when this kind of concept came to me. After all this time I just can say, monetary economy is the reson for the 99% of all the bad things in this planet. Everybody who does not see it this way and who wants better future for all of us, has to begin to think, research, study and as a consequence deductively bring out some conclusion about what are his feelings. I know the process (I went through it) and I know that millions of fears and doubts clouds our minds, but I came to the conclusion this will be the best thing for the entire humanity.

Ernie Nemeth
25th August 2011, 21:02
I so agree vib.

I started a thread a while back titled World Peace. In it I layed out 10 criteria for lasting peace in our world. The first two are like transitional requirements and they involved resources and they're allocation. I believe that without such a basic set of fundamental guidlines that we can all agree to we cannot transition to a better world. Until we all understand the isues involved and the reason for the need to change our collective beliefs we will not be able to agree on our future direction either.

Wade Frazier has a thread here all about abundance theory. And just let me give you a quick glimpse of our future in a society where the abundance paradigm has been adopted.

A new source of power and propulsion, derived from breakthroughs in fundamental physics, would totally transformed the landscape. Clean air, fresh water, vibrant ecosystems would be taken for granted. Humans would become so mobile that the idea of home takes on a new meaning - home could be a glade in the forest today and a pristine mountain peak...on Mars tomorrow! Work would be done in order to feel a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment. Instant communication and travel would connect the society as never before. And technology would be augmented by amazing new human talents, that lay dormant in a scarcity based mindset. Direction and motivation would be derived from our position in the galaxy as full members in good standing of the galactic neighborhood. The scope of our future quickly leaves the arena of conjecture.

I'm sure there is currency in the cosmos but I doubt it is paper money backed by the Federal Reserve.
Or any other such intangible, fiat currency.

finally there!!!
25th August 2011, 21:02
I couldn't agree more with Vibrations..the problem i see now is that people just don't have any faith in the human race any more.We have to believe that we as a race can live in harmony with each other and that we can live in a society where it driven out of love and compassion and not for profit..We have to start believing in ourselves its the only way;)

Maia Gabrial
25th August 2011, 23:06
That's exactly the way I feel. People would be amazed at how much they really DON'T need....Everyone would have their needs met: a home, food, free time to enjoy life.... "A free world without money" is such a great concept. Hope it catches on. Then the banksters will be holding alot of useless pieces of paper.... LOL!

nearing
26th August 2011, 01:34
I just came across this great site and I think most people here see this as the vision for the future so I wanted to share.

Please read the site, watch the video and share with all your friends :cool:

The Free World Charter is a set of principles that have the potential to optimise life on Earth for all species, eradicate human poverty and greed, and advance progress exponentially.

Neither political nor religious, the ten short principles of the Charter could form the foundation of a new, advanced society that uses no money, is free, fair and sustainable. They are based solely on common sense, Nature and survival.

This is our world, and we can solve many of our problems today and have a better society, by following just a few simple rules of Nature.

Please read and sign The Free World Charter today at:
http://www.freeworldcharter.org

rvDKTRgoSS8

Makes perfect sense. Everyone does the work that they are good at and/or love, take no pay for the work and pay no bills. Period.

The middle man has been eliminated and everyone can at and ave a roof over their head. It is so logical, it may scare many.

I want to add that MANY people LOVE farming and construction and manual labor. They don't like the idea of going to University and being a book worm so I don't see a problem with that.

Tane Mahuta
26th August 2011, 10:58
Money is the only thing you do not need.

Funny how it has become the most important thing in our world.

Because the masses are starting to realise that the current system is corrupt....

Yes, money is not needed....but the masses are too fearful of change...

because of their own ignorance.

(I've got no problem of giving my time freely)

TM

ktlight
26th August 2011, 11:32
When you sign the Charter, you get taken to another page. On that page is where there are items for sale.

ceetee9
26th August 2011, 13:50
Does our minds require a universe in order to exist? Or does the universe require our minds in order to exist? :confused:That's what theoretical physicists are now trying to determine.

Ernie Nemeth
26th August 2011, 13:52
There are a few points I do not agree with without clarification.

Entrenching the scientific method is unacceptable unless it is augmented by the study of consciousness. Also, there is no mention of God, or the source, or the universal field or whatever you want to call it. I cannot sign a new charter this important that does not acknowledge the Creator.
Entrenching the rights of animals has some problems too, as this is our jobs as stewards of the planet. If you put a line in about the rights of animals then you bring up a can of worms regarding any interference by man in any form. Best leave taking care of the animals to those who will want to care for the animals - they will ensure their rights.

Anyone heard of the Venus Project? Very similar principles.

ceetee9
26th August 2011, 14:10
Once again this is coming from a 'service to self' ego based thought pattern. This system is based on 'service to others' heart based action/thinking. It doesn't work like you described. Change of thought patterns is required. You can have everything you need, the best of the best of everything. Contribution is required by all, in terms of what can I do to help others as opposed to what can I get for myself!

IndigoStar, I can see you mean well, and I really really appreciate that.
But this is tantamount to speculating "what if rivers were made of milk and lakes made of honey"?
It ain't gonna happen.
Humanity IS what it is.
Any plan that is not based on actual human nature is doomed to failure - but it usually also entails the doom of thousands and millions of citizens, before it collapses.
History has shown us that, again and again.
(I've explained this in my previous post, so no need for me to rehash my own words.)With all due respect 'NeverMind,' it is precisely that kind of thinking that keeps us in this duality experience. You assume human nature is static and cannot change. I disagree. Humans have evolved since living in caves--albeit, not a great deal, but we've evolved some. We can change human nature, but first humans have to recognize the issues that are causing them pain and suffering and then they have to devise a solution that will end that pain and suffering. If we "assume" we cannot change and, therefore, do nothing to attempt to change into a more loving and cooperative species then we most assuredly will not change and we ARE doomed to failure.

By now we should all know the things that don't work. Isn't it time we try something new that may work?

IndigoStar
26th August 2011, 14:11
When you sign the Charter, you get taken to another page. On that page is where there are items for sale.

I don't think they claim to already be living by this new charter...more just suggesting it as an idea and gathering support, which is need in order to bring it into being.

ceetee9
26th August 2011, 14:29
I believe a free (contributionist-style) society is a doable endeavor and I agree with many of the statements made in this thread (and disagree with a few too), but there are several issues that I would like to see addressed that I didn't see addressed on the FreeWorldCharter.org website. For example, Is there some form of governance that oversees things like resolving disputes, dealing with social crimes like murder, rape, child abuse, etc., and making sure everyone doesn't contribute to society by becoming a musician, artist, sports star, etc. or, worse, just deciding to do nothing because all their needs are met. Human nature must obviously change to eliminate or at least minimize these types of issues, but it is unlikely 7 billion people are going to change overnight even if they all wanted to. If there is some type of government, how much power/authority should it have, how is it staffed and for how long, etc.

ulli
26th August 2011, 14:38
If one wants to take money out of the world one is left with barter, which may at first look like life is simpler, but in reality it just complicates matters.
In the end one is left with a world of people demanding their rights to get access to whatever...faster computer? No problem...it's free...someone in China made it for free, with a gun to their head.
Free delivery? No problem, someone left their sick child alone at home just to drive the truck to bring your fast computer to your front door...
Yeah, right.

NeverMind
26th August 2011, 15:43
With all due respect 'NeverMind,' it is precisely that kind of thinking that keeps us in this duality experience. You assume human nature is static and cannot change. I disagree. Humans have evolved since living in caves--albeit, not a great deal, but we've evolved some. We can change human nature, but first humans have to recognize the issues that are causing them pain and suffering and then they have to devise a solution that will end that pain and suffering. If we "assume" we cannot change and, therefore, do nothing to attempt to change into a more loving and cooperative species then we most assuredly will not change and we ARE doomed to failure.
/QUOTE]
By now we should all know the things that don't work. Isn't it time we try something new that may work?

My dear, I invested almost an hour of my time (and gladly so) to expound, in detail, why I do not think this will work and it could never work.
I ended with a very concrete contribution: an idea that could be implemented NOW, with humanity as is.

I did not see - and do not expect to see - any concrete and doable suggestions from the utopians.
If they were really committed to positive change, based on reality - which is the only way to effect real changes - they would jump on any opportunity to do so.
But dreaming is more pleasant, I suppose.
And cheaper.



P.S I totally agree that humanity HAS evolved - a lot!
That was one of my points. That is why a barter society - an "all free" society - could never work.

Peace of Mind
26th August 2011, 15:57
Why are we so easily discoraged? Perhaps it's just a clever excuse to mask our fears and responsiblities.

We can make everything free now. The only way it will not happen is because we won’t allow it. Some may act naïve about it but that’s because they aren’t willing to adjust, severely blinded by years of demonic subtle cultivation. Those that think what OP is suggesting to be a fairy tale are part of the main ones stopping it from happening. If you go through life blaming others and thinking everyone else is not going to evolve into righteousness than you are just another thorn in immediate need of pruning. Your lack of faith will be contagious to the weak minded, panicky followers.

With faith, you rarely have to plan… just imagine the end results and take the ride. Everything we do have consequences, so plan carefully. When you work on something chances of you knowing how the process will go is always slim, the universe handles this by placing the resources on your path your emotions/intent asked for. Thinking the world will never change, or others will never change is what tptw want you to think. They know how this REALITY and thoughts work. If you see turmoil in the future or believe there will be a lack of commitment in others (before you actually do something yourself) you are the very problem. If you’re not willing to be the example, demonstrate your passion for a new better world you will not have it, it’s just as simple as that. It’s a little disheartening seeing how trained we are to be stagnated hopeless beings. I have to continue to pick up the slack because others refuse to do their share. I don’t mind thou… because I see humans to be something very special once they all wake up.

As of now…they are heading into oblivion. Some even think off planet et/entities (totally unconfirmed subject) will assist in their liberations. Which imo, further leads me to thinking just how scared we really are about facing a small group of oppressors. Why should any alien (if any) want to help a species unwilling to help themselves? It’s not like the task at hand is impossible…it only requires dedication and unity. This is what tptb don’t want…they want to divide, and destroy you one by one.

Too be a realist is to see the problems for what they actually are. Cowards will never put in the work to make the changes, instead they only point out the obvious issues while hoping someone or something will come along and change it for them. As long as we have people like this in society we will always have problems. Life is too short, so that should already tell you that you’re here for a reason. And I’m sure it’s not to just support flaw governments; it’s suppose to be the other way around.

It’s a spiritual crime to do nothing while noticing how the world is being driven by negativity. You always get what you deserve; we live in these times because we created/allowed them through our division, pessimism, and inactivity. If the world is about to end, NOONE can’t say we don’t deserve it, just look at what we done and haven’t done to the place and each other. None of us are innocent here, but we do have a fleeting unique opportunity to right this wrong. It very well may be our last time.

If you think aliens are looking on and fighting for us…then give them something to fight for…give them hope/inspiration…show them that we are worthy and not some scared weak creatures laying on our backs crying out like spoiled babies…Give them a show of gratitude and heroism. We and they deserve this much…it’s not like we can’t do this….

Why are Humans the only creatures born into slavery? Every other creature is free to explore this world when and however they want…with a level of respect to the Earth and other inhabitants. We claim to be so intelligent but can’t or refuse to stop our own demise that is at the hand of a very few oppressors. If this is truly the case…how smart can we be? There are levels to awakening; I just think some of us are still in the twilight stages slowly gaining their consciousness back. If only we knew how much power we actually have.


Peace

ulli
26th August 2011, 16:02
The current system is crumbling, and the new world order and their global currency are already in place.
What needs to change now is to bring the grass roots people to underrstand their own importance, and stand up for themselves.
Forming local communities is the answer, and those who have no cash can barter freely. It will give them a chance to learn the art of negociation.
When someone is ready to live life at a faster pace they can move to a national level of activities. Here they use digital money, but also cash, as well as barter, if they meet someone who has fun with it.
At the international level of operations there are still more freedoms...everything is done by negociation in accordance with the laws that have been instituted by a legislature which have been elected from the grassroots up, the way cream rises to the top of the milk.
Because after the system change the cesspit will not be the dominant reality any longer, we WILL have a world of milk and honey....wellll, sort of...

NeverMind
26th August 2011, 16:10
So we could start with free water, then maybe move to free gas etc, slow transition like that and see how it goes.

Water absolutely should be free.
It is immoral to keep water from any living being, or to make them pay for it.

The following - or simultaneous - step could be the "banks" of services and goods that I talked about in my first post.


It would be nice to see one of those computer simulation models that can predict how society would react to certain events!

We've already had plenty of live "simulations".
It's called history. :-))

Ernie Nemeth
27th August 2011, 01:12
The way I see it, we chose this world and elected to have it be the way it is. We want it this way because it suits our needs. But the only constant in this universe is change. And I believe we are slowly changing our minds about the experience we wish to have. The rest is just fluff, designed to distract. Change is coming, whether we want it or not. That much is quite evident - the writing is on the wall. The only question is: What do we want to experience next? And its follow up: What will lead us there?

When the crap hits the fan it will be the emotion we rely on that will determine our future: love or fear.
It has always been so.

craig mitchell
27th August 2011, 03:34
I've had the discussion with friends about human nature. "It's human nature to lie, hate, steal, and the like". And I say "Yes, human nature, but at what level of consciousness?" They say, "Eh, huh" and eyes glaze over while looking some place else. I say "Look around and you can see that we're not all functioning at the same level of consciousness." The subject gets dropped then because one can envision a bit further than the other and that's human nature. That's the way it's happening, in stages, but with greatly increased boosts of expanded consciousness, and major downloads of information and memories very soon.

It's hard to recover after you've been sucker punched by real pros at the old game of control, and frankly, without cosmic help and planned fortuitousness during this unique time, it would be game over, and the darkness settles over humanity permanently. It's hard to imagine the wonder of what we've been blinded to for so long. But very soon we won't be blind and the true human nature will be revealed within each of us. Just imagine you at your very best, and loving yourself for being at the zenith of that expression, then multiply that many fold and hold it constant. Imagine the love flowing out of your heart to all with no reason to stop. This isn't close to the real you, but I'm still imagining it myself!

Remember in the movie "What about Bob" when when the actor Bill Murray is told to take "baby steps" by his enraged psychologist who was trying to make him go away and he wouldn't, he just persisted? That's kinda like where were at, so let's smile and giggle at our progress while we move ourselves and each other forward.

Remember the old joke about someone of dubious solidity as being like a house where "the lights are on but nobody's home"?

Pretty soon the lights will be on, and we'll all be home!

Regards, Craig

ceetee9
27th August 2011, 04:24
With all due respect 'NeverMind,' it is precisely that kind of thinking that keeps us in this duality experience. You assume human nature is static and cannot change. I disagree. Humans have evolved since living in caves--albeit, not a great deal, but we've evolved some. We can change human nature, but first humans have to recognize the issues that are causing them pain and suffering and then they have to devise a solution that will end that pain and suffering. If we "assume" we cannot change and, therefore, do nothing to attempt to change into a more loving and cooperative species then we most assuredly will not change and we ARE doomed to failure.
/QUOTE]
By now we should all know the things that don't work. Isn't it time we try something new that may work?

My dear, I invested almost an hour of my time (and gladly so) to expound, in detail, why I do not think this will work and it could never work.
I ended with a very concrete contribution: an idea that could be implemented NOW, with humanity as is.

I did not see - and do not expect to see - any concrete and doable suggestions from the utopians.
If they were really committed to positive change, based on reality - which is the only way to effect real changes - they would jump on any opportunity to do so.
But dreaming is more pleasant, I suppose.
And cheaper.



P.S I totally agree that humanity HAS evolved - a lot!
That was one of my points. That is why a barter society - an "all free" society - could never work.
I appreciate that you invested almost an hour of your time (and gladly so) to expound, in detail, why you do not think a free system would work and could never work, but I was not responding to that comment—nor did I see it before I made the above comment.

And the fact that you did not see and do not expect to see any concrete and doable suggestions from the “utopians” does not in any way conclude there are none.

Nor does the fact that people committed to a positive change “based on reality” did not “jump on any opportunity to do so” imply that they haven’t any ideas on how to make a free system work or that their ideas are not based in “reality.”

And, yes my dear, dreaming is more pleasant and cheaper for those who are capable of dreaming. For if it wasn’t for the dreamers in this world you and I would still be living in caves.

P.S. I have to infer from your statement “humanity HAS evolved - a lot” that you are referring to its technology because we are still primitively trying to solve our social problems by ostracizing or killing those who don’t go along with the groupthink—hardly the hallmark of an advanced civilization.

IndigoStar
27th August 2011, 10:27
While we argue about who is right who is wrong, if this would work, if it wouldn't, we are merely creating divisions and duality between ourselves.
We are all right becase we all see the world individually and each individual perspective is a part of the greater whole and is perfect just as it is.

We all evolve at different rates so it is impossible for all to envision a 'perfect' society at any given time unless we are all returned to the source and so all once again one being. Until that time the best we can do is accept that we are all right and instead of focusing on how we want the outer world to look, all focus within to self-assess and self-improve because when we heal inside the outer world will automatically heal.

It is futile attempting to convince anybody else of any particular ideal because they need to live their own reality. Each person has the free will to choose their reality. Choose what you want to see and accept others' choices as perfectly imperfect whatever they are because until we all reunite as source we will never find an answer we all agree upon.

The solution to the problem is that there is no problem.

I am tired of this debate. I find it draining. I just wanted to encourage thinking outside the box and propose an alternative way of living to what we have now. I surrender to the universe. I accept all as it is. :)

dourpil
27th August 2011, 10:56
Hey all! I'm sorry, I haven't read the whole thread but if you haven't seen the movie yet, you should watch Zeitgeist 3: moving forward.

The 1st part of the movie is about our society (...)
And the 2nd part is basically "how could we live in harmony with each other". There's no money in the system presented. I loved it. I think the ideas were from the Project Venus so if you don't have the time to watch the whole movie, maybe check this link: http://www.thevenusproject.com/

The movie's great! I recommend it.


Edit: here it is if you're looking for it:

4Z9WVZddH9w

Maybe it's subtitled in your native language, but it'd need a bit more research

Peace of Mind
27th August 2011, 17:37
It’s all good…the fact that we are now aware of such things...or becoming aware should provide enough hope to everyone. Various views on the subject is really a non issue, it’s to be expected. When you’re adapting to new ways…we always want the best results…and we deserve it…

Figure I leave this trailer here for those interested in gaining more insight to why things must change. Low budget movie (for reasons), but the important message is there…
http://youtu.be/e9th02xZay8

Stay lovin…

Peace