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Christine
5th September 2011, 13:36
Hello All,

I thought that some of you may be interested in knowing what is going on in an extraordinary little village in Ecuador called Vilcabamba. I have only been living here for the past three months and am discovering on a daily basis the magic of an unfolding life.

Um, I ask myself what do I mean by "the magic of an unfolding life"? The explanation I can give is that since arriving to the seemingly far away place a series of events, coincidental meetings, and unlikely outcomes has reminded me again of the magic of life and the deep gratitude that comes with that realization.

Well, enough of my musings for the moment......I would like to let the forum members know that if they are thinking about visiting Ecuador, as some of you may be, I am most happy to answer questions, make arrangements and provide support in any way I can. You see, I am running a small well known hotel here which has been the jumping off point for many, many visitors who have decided to call Vilcabamba their home.

Here is the link to and a picture of the hotel in the
"The Sacred Valley of Longevity"

http://madretierra.com.ec

If anyone would like more information or pictures please feel free to ask. It would also be nice to hear the perspectives and stories of those who have visited or live here.

Saludos a todos,
La Tigra

http://projectavalon.net/Madre_Tierra_1_sm.jpg

seko
5th September 2011, 14:12
Hi La Tigra I've been having this thought in my head or in my whole body about moving down to South America, no idea why. But seeing many pictures of a few countries down there seems very interesting and beautiful at the same time.

It is in my plans, but I would like to go and stay for at least a year. If like you say, many people that go there, decide to stay I wonder what would I do for a living over there????

Lots to think about.

Beautiful place though thanks for sharing!!

TWINCANS
5th September 2011, 14:23
Mike Adams lived there for 2 yrs. Seems amazing! Here's his take on the place from his Natural News website:

http://www.naturalnews.com/029005_Vilcabamba_Ecuador.html

GCS1103
5th September 2011, 15:29
Hi, La Tigra-

I had the pleasure of staying in Vilcabamba when Bill had his conference at Brian O'Leary's house. It was a beautiful area and for the few days that I was there I felt like I had escaped the craziness of the world. Everywhere I went, it was so peaceful and magnificent. I loved going into the town and walking around meeting the people- especially the guys that always sit outside at that little shop drinking coffee. Just wonderful people. I think it is known as the "Valley of Longevity" because there you can toss out your worries and just relax.

I wish you the best with your life there. If I come back for a visit, I will most definitely stop and say hello to you.

Goldie

The One
5th September 2011, 15:32
Wow simply beutiful

If i am ever over your neck of the woods i will be certain to visit.

onawah
5th September 2011, 20:37
I have a friend who visited Vilcabamba and Dr. O'Leary while she was there and said it was paradise.
She sent me a calendar of Dr. O'Leary's wife's beautiful artwork.
And I have watched some of Dr. O'Leary's videos and photos on his website of their gorgeous home there.
I'm so glad the conference was held there before his passing so that more people could be exposed to that wonderful man and his work.
I have been reading Mike Adams Natural News for a couple of years, and he seemed to love it there, especially being a raw foodist who was able to grow a lot of his own food with ease there. ( I wonder why he decided to return to Texas, of all places...!)
If I had the money, it is certainly a place I would want to visit, and possibly live.
I would think, though, for those of us who are not used to living in such an easy, relaxing atmosphere, it might be a bit unnerving at first, though I definitely wouldn't mind trying...! LOL
A young woman I know has been going to Ecuador for some years now on tours of the jungles and for ayahuasca spiritual journeys with one of the native guides. It certainly seems to have been deeply life changing for her.
I would be interested in knowing what kind of community activities there are there, and what people of note are living there now, if any, also what kind of relationship there is with the expatriates there and the indigenous people.
Thanks and welcome to Avalon, Tigra!

Rodrigo
5th September 2011, 21:48
I knew Quito, the capital in 1986 and I loved the people and the city. I went to "la mitad del mundo" (half of the world) an amazing place were you can move between North and South hemisphere. Unfortunately I could not go because of work to Vilcabamba this year. I hope to go soon. Another meeting with avalonian people would be great.
Thanks Tigra for remember me this wonderful place and to know you are there.
I feel...I have to go there.

Christine
6th September 2011, 00:15
Hi La Tigra I've been having this thought in my head or in my whole body about moving down to South America, no idea why. But seeing many pictures of a few countries down there seems very interesting and beautiful at the same time.

It is in my plans, but I would like to go and stay for at least a year. If like you say, many people that go there, decide to stay I wonder what would I do for a living over there????

Lots to think about.

Beautiful place though thanks for sharing!!

Gracias Seko,

Veo que vives en Mexico.... querido Mexico! What you "feel" about moving to South America without knowing why is something that has happened to quite a few folk. Just be open to the possibility and I am sure the manner by which you can arrive will present itself. As to what to do for a living is really up to you, there are massage therapists, healers, artists, entrepreneurs, and just about any skill can be put to use here. Not your normal paradigm and opportunities can present in unexpected ways. If you would like to know more please write me a personal message and I can give you as much information as you would like.

Saludos,
La Tigra

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I knew Quito, the capital in 1986 and I loved the people and the city. I went to "la mitad del mundo" (half of the world) an amazing place were you can move between North and South hemisphere. Unfortunately I could not go because of work to Vilcabamba this year. I hope to go soon. Another meeting with avalonian people would be great.
Thanks Tigra for remember me this wonderful place and to know you are there.
I feel...I have to go there.

Hola Rodrigo,

Please look me up if you get here, I would love to meet you!

La Tigra

Bill Ryan
6th September 2011, 15:06
--------

Here's a collage of images from January 2009, when Kerry and I visited Vilcabamba for the first time.

http://projectcamelot.org/project_camelot_ecuador_january_2009.gif

Click on this link...

http://projectcamelot.org/index_archive_3.html#Ecuador

...and then click on each of the small images to enlarge. There are a couple of panoramas of Vilcabamba (taken from Brian O'Leary's house) which are very high resolution. Here's one, which is well worth zooming in on.

http://projectcamelot.org/ecuador_panorama_2.jpg

I'll miss my friend Brian greatly: but he'll be back. He told me he was the tenth gringo in Vilcabamba when he arrived back in 2004 or 2005. There are now over a thousand... about a third of the population. More expats are relocating there every week.

They include writers, artists, teachers, musicians, people with internet businesses, therapists and healers -- of all generations, and from all over the world. I heard from a friend just this morning, a highly talented Rife practitioner in California, who'll be relocating there with her Rife machine in a couple of weeks' time. Lucia Rene is also moving there in October. I might even end up there myself.

It seems to be a real gathering place now. Everything grows there, the highly mineralized natural water is unflouridated, and there are no chemtrails. There's a juice bar (like Jamba Juice, but all natural and much better!) in the town square, there are little restaurants with sometimes quite wonderful food for $5-10 for an ample dinner, and the 4x4 twin-cab pickup taxis cost $1 to go pretty much anywhere local. It's easy to see why it's become such a mecca for those wanting to enjoy a healthy and spiritual lifestyle that's being threatened everywhere in the western world.

mojo
6th September 2011, 15:54
Hooray for Ecuador! A Country promoting open disclosure and perhaps this tiny Country will be the 'Ground Zero' when they land and when the time is right?

GCS1103
6th September 2011, 16:28
--------

Here's a collage of images from January 2009, when Kerry and I visited Vilcabamba for the first time.

http://projectcamelot.org/project_camelot_ecuador_january_2009.gif

Click on this link...

http://projectcamelot.org/index_archive_3.html#Ecuador

...and then click on each of the small images to enlarge. There are a couple of panoramas of Vilcabamba (taken from Brian O'Leary's house) which are very high resolution. Here's one, which is well worth zooming in on.

http://projectcamelot.org/ecuador_panorama_2.jpg

I'll miss my friend Brian greatly: but he'll be back. He told me he was the tenth gringo in Vilcabamba when he arrived back in 2004 or 2005. There are now over a thousand... about a third of the population. More expats are relocating there every week.

They include writers, artists, teachers, musicians, people with internet businesses, therapists and healers -- of all generations, and from all over the world. I heard from a friend just this morning, a highly talented Rife practitioner in California, who'll be relocating there with her Rife machine in a couple of weeks' time. Lucia Rene is also moving there in October. I might even end up there myself.

It seems to be a real gathering place now. Everything grows there, the highly mineralized natural water is unflouridated, and there are no chemtrails. There's a juice bar (like Jamba Juice, but all natural and much better!) in the town square, there are little restaurants with sometimes quite wonderful food for $5-10 for an ample dinner, and the 4x4 twin-cab pickup taxis cost $1 to go pretty much anywhere local. It's easy to see why it's become such a mecca for those wanting to enjoy a healthy and spiritual lifestyle that's being threatened everywhere in the western world.

Bill-

I want to thank you for giving us a reason to visit Vilcabamba and meet Brian O'Leary at your conference. I would have missed out on seeing that beautiful place and meeting Brian and his wife. It was a great experience for me personally.

Sidney
6th September 2011, 19:50
Anyone who is interested in the area should read the book "Running the Amazon" by Joe Kane. Documentary of the first expedition down the entire Amazon river. Excellent read. Vilcabamba is involved throughout, although this took place I believe in the early 70's.
I read it the first time 20 yrs ago, and I just got another copy on amazon used for 2 dollars plus shipping.

Fred Steeves
6th September 2011, 21:43
--------


It seems to be a real gathering place now. Everything grows there, the highly mineralized natural water is unflouridated, and there are no chemtrails. There's a juice bar (like Jamba Juice, but all natural and much better!) in the town square, there are little restaurants with sometimes quite wonderful food for $5-10 for an ample dinner, and the 4x4 twin-cab pickup taxis cost $1 to go pretty much anywhere local. It's easy to see why it's become such a mecca for those wanting to enjoy a healthy and spiritual lifestyle that's being threatened everywhere in the western world.

OK Bill, I have a question for you my friend. I've now heard you more than once state that you may wind up in Ecuador if/when things get hairy in the western world. My wife Heidi and I were talking at the springs this week-end concerning unfolding world events, and Ecuador came up because I keep hearing it here. I have a question, and she has questions concerning this. They come from totally different realms of the spectrum, but being that I'm the member here, mine comes first. LOL.:kiss:

So, my question is, if everybody who gives a s**t about the future of mankind runs to beautiful places like this when the going gets tough, who's going to be left to keep the flame of freedom going in the rest of the world? This is where our questions differ, as it appears she's ready to cash out and go, and I'm not planning on going ANYWHERE, no matter what, as I feel it's my mission to help preserve that flame from right here in the bowels of the encroaching darkness.

O.k., that's the line of questioning from Heidi's radical husband Fred, the next question post will be from the lady of our house herself. I now present me wife Heidi, ready or not...:whistle:

Cheers,
Fred

Fred Steeves
6th September 2011, 21:51
Here's the wife, Heidi. If I can convince Fred to preserve the flame from Ecuador instead of Florida (we are at the bottom of the USA and what's the difference if it is Ecuador or FL?), I have 2 questions. Does anyone know (1) what type of work is available there (to supplement other needs than the things we would grow ourselves); and (2) what types of places are available to rent and live?

Greetings to all on this board!

Heidi

Bill Ryan
6th September 2011, 22:45
So, my question is, if everybody who gives a s**t about the future of mankind runs to beautiful places like this when the going gets tough, who's going to be left to keep the flame of freedom going in the rest of the world? This is where our questions differ, as it appears she's ready to cash out and go, and I'm not planning on going ANYWHERE, no matter what, as I feel it's my mission to help preserve that flame from right here in the bowels of the encroaching darkness.

I discuss this in my April interview starting from 31:23. "Where should people be?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFP5hOux4UY

Do watch. The answer depends on one's individual purpose. It may be your purpose to stay in Florida and help others. It may be Heidi's purpose to leave the US to be in another place to be valuable there in a different way. Your life missions may not be the same. There's no right answer that applies universally to us all.

w1ndmill
7th September 2011, 00:43
It looks absolutely wonderful Tigra. I'm sure that Fred and Heidi will have a wonderful time there too ....

Marianne
7th September 2011, 00:53
Greetings to all on this board!
Heidi

Hello Heidi!

--Marianne

Dawn
7th September 2011, 04:50
Hi La Tigra, I am so glad you've joined the forum. I haven't been to Vilcabamba however I know I would love it. I've spent many hours researching moving there and had ruled it out because it appears hard to do.

It seems you need a letter of reference to open a bank account because the banks are all privately owned and suspicious of potential new customers. And you need an attorney to handle the government red tape, which changes constantly, in order to take up residence. And there really isn't mail service from the town. Even the near by town has spotty service. In understand it can take 2-3 months for mail to get from Vilcabamba to somewhere else in the world.

Is this all correct? That is what exhaustive research on the internet has shown. I have a small pension, enough cash to buy a little house and a piece of land. I also have an internet business which requires mail service to send out the small electronic devices I make.

All this makes it easy for me to move, however I need internet service, mail service, a way to receive my pension, and permission to stay in the country. Is this as hard as it all seems?

Fred Steeves
7th September 2011, 12:08
So, my question is, if everybody who gives a s**t about the future of mankind runs to beautiful places like this when the going gets tough, who's going to be left to keep the flame of freedom going in the rest of the world? This is where our questions differ, as it appears she's ready to cash out and go, and I'm not planning on going ANYWHERE, no matter what, as I feel it's my mission to help preserve that flame from right here in the bowels of the encroaching darkness.

I discuss this in my April interview starting from 31:23. "Where should people be?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFP5hOux4UY

Do watch. The answer depends on one's individual purpose. It may be your purpose to stay in Florida and help others. It may be Heidi's purpose to leave the US to be in another place to be valuable there in a different way. Your life missions may not be the same. There's no right answer that applies universally to us all.

Hi Bill, thanks for the reminder from your April interview, good stuff brother. You know, I don't believe in coincidences, and out of the blue last evening I found myself roughly handcuffed in the back of a police car, right in front of my house, not more than an hour after we posted our questions. That's a story in itself, but it sure did seem that the universe was giving me a clear message, whether it be a sign to go to Ecuador, a sign that this is exactly what I'm here to help put an end to, or possibly even the start of some totally new path. (Preferably not through the criminal--justice system) LOL.

So with all options on the table, let me see if I can re-focus the questions a bit, whether it be for you Bill, La Tigra, or anyone else. My line of questioning concerns more like, why Ecuador seems to be a popular spot for people who see trouble coming. Are there certain communities forming that are made up of these people of like minds? If so, how does one go about finding such a community? Also, it sounds as if the governments in places like Ecuador might at the least be neutral on this? If so, would this be expected to continue?

Heidi's observations are usually more nuts and bolts, which is my weak point, thus making us a good team. Her main concerns are that even if you cash out here and your money would go much further down there, it would still likely eventually run out. So, she's more interested in, well hell, I'll just let the lady speak for herself. Here is requoted her 2 questions from yesterday:

I have 2 questions. Does anyone know (1) what type of work is available there (to supplement other needs than the things we would grow ourselves); and (2) what types of places are available to rent and live?

Greetings to all on this board!

Heidi

So, obviousy these are some in depth questions. Any light ya'll can shed for us to chew on would be most appreciated!!!

Thanks and Cheers,
Fred

Marsila
7th September 2011, 13:31
Hola La Tigra, that place you live in is beautiful! (but i'm biased and i think every single spot of Latin America is blessed and beautiful :))

now if i may answer Fred S post not that i'm an expert but

My line of questioning concerns more like, why Ecuador seems to be a popular spot for people who see trouble coming. Are there certain communities forming that are made up of these people of like minds? If so, how does one go about finding such a community?

Ecuador does seem to have a lot these communities like the one in Vilcabamba. I do not think it is for people who see trouble coming, but those who want an accessible change from their lifestyle, and i guess the cost of that lifestyle to.

from what i know, you could temporarily try going to Ecuador. you already have access to people like La Tigra and people you know are a good place to start with. Also Ecuador has become one of a handful of countries that allows everyone without exceptions visas in the airport...just makes sure you get the right stamp for a month or 3 month once you go.


If so, how does one go about finding such a community? Also, it sounds as if the governments in places like Ecuador might at the least be neutral on this? If so, would this be expected to continue?

well like every where in the world, the governments are corrupt, maybe in a place like Ecuador, the fact that they don't bother pretending that they are doing anything about is what leaves people from other places thinking them strange. As for would this be expected to continue no one can tell...but this is shedding a very good light on Ecuador, and no one says no to money flowing into their country, so it'd be counterproductive if they did anything but encourage such things.




I have 2 questions. Does anyone know (1) what type of work is available there (to supplement other needs than the things we would grow ourselves); and (2) what types of places are available to rent and live?

hi Heidi!
1) I think the websites linking to that community mention that all skills are welcome, whatever you do in Florida, they could make use of in Ecuador to. Maybe you could also start your own business there, it isn't expensive, and may be a route to a residence rather than tourist visa, so you feel more free.

2)i think post number 3 here by TWINCANS has a good link from naturalnews in which he mentions good gated places for you to rent such safety may be an issue to people who just move there.
here is quote from that website near the end of the article

Once in Vilcabamba, you can stay at Madre Tierra, Hosteria de Vilcabamba, Hosteria Izhcayluma, or other available places. There are usually plenty of rooms available except during celebration events when the whole town sells out!

If you're coming to look at property, Nick at www.VREC.org can help you organize transportation. Joe's staff at Hacienda San Joaquin (www.VilcabambaHomes.com) can also assist with that effort if you're coming to look at properties on the Hacienda (where my ranch is located). There are also a few unsold lots at Hacienda San Joaquin that might interest you if you prefer to live in a gated community.

Enjoy your trip and take lots of great pictures!

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/029005_Vilcabamba_Ecuador.html#ixzz1XGyfsYeF



if i remember well in Ecuador, keep your US bank account, and use your visa card to open a local bank account, otherwise one or two banks would allow you to open an account using only your passport. If you really want to deal with banks that is...and maybe just at the start you may need, before you figure a safety system for your cash.

anyway i hope this answered one or two or things, but hope anyone else who knows better answers your questions to!

seko
7th September 2011, 13:50
Hi Fred, I want to go to Vilcabamba but I don't see trouble coming. It is just what me girlfriend and me feel like doing. We just started looking into the website of Ecuador, and later will look at some other countries like Peru, Chile, Uruguay and Argentina.

We have the same questions as you and your wife Heidi, will look into it and if we find useful info, will share it with you and everybody here.

Thanks,

Seko

Bill Ryan
7th September 2011, 15:54
-------

Thanks to La Tigra for opening this important thread!

She'll be able to respond much better than I can to the logistical questions asked. But the bottom line is that everyone in Vilcabamba makes things work pretty well. There are many entrepreneurs there with a global focus. There seem to be workarounds for most contingencies.

Loja (with its regional airport) is a large center, 45 mins away by cheap taxi, with a population of 160,000. Expat Vilcabambans get most specialist items there: they take a deep breath and go to Loja for maybe a few hours once a week. They also help one another out all the time by fetching things, doing favors, taking turns, etc.

There are many lawyers who can guide folks through visa and residency procedures. It's easy to get a referral: maybe La Tigra can help. There's a little red tape, but as best I understand it's pretty straightforward and the doors are wide open still. The fine details change frequently, though, so it's important to get up-to-date information.

I'm told the regular postal service can be slow or unreliable, but I believe Fedex/DHL works just fine. Internet and cellphone access is excellent. The roads are good, the buses are cheap and work fine, taxis are dependable, and (importantly) in Vilcabamba you can easily walk up to any expat whether you know them or not and they'll always be pleased to offer friendly help or advice.

Rentals can be fairly cheap depending on your needs: in June I met someone (a massage therapist) whose total outlay for rent, all services, and fresh food from the local market was about $500 per month. I was told this was not uncommon. As is the case everywhere, though, you can spend much more than that if you want to. :)

http://projectavalon.net/Ecuador_in_South_America.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Ecuador_map_sm.gif

seko
7th September 2011, 16:05
Thanks Bill, we are on a mission here and seeing what we need might take sometime, but I'm sure will make it there eventually.

There's nothing more refreshing like a brand new start.

w1ndmill
7th September 2011, 21:37
Hi La Tigra, I am so glad you've joined the forum. I haven't been to Vilcabamba however I know I would love it. I've spent many hours researching moving there and had ruled it out because it appears hard to do.

It seems you need a letter of reference to open a bank account because the banks are all privately owned and suspicious of potential new customers. And you need an attorney to handle the government red tape, which changes constantly, in order to take up residence. And there really isn't mail service from the town. Even the near by town has spotty service. In understand it can take 2-3 months for mail to get from Vilcabamba to somewhere else in the world.

Is this all correct? That is what exhaustive research on the internet has shown. I have a small pension, enough cash to buy a little house and a piece of land. I also have an internet business which requires mail service to send out the small electronic devices I make.

All this makes it easy for me to move, however I need internet service, mail service, a way to receive my pension, and permission to stay in the country. Is this as hard as it all seems?

Oh my goodness- i so envy you abundant traveller. I wish you well and every happiness. "Come to the edge," he said ......................... and then they flew.

mojo
8th September 2011, 19:28
Wow talk about synchronicity. I just received an invite to Ecuador this morning. I met the author of a book entitled "Women can find treasure too." And she did find treasure in Ecuador, a sunken ship with gold. She has lived and worked there for many years with her husband. She was very interested in my UFO footage, and during breakfast this morning I asked her if she knew anything about Ecuador since I knew that country was promoting open disclosure and I wanted to visit. Her mouth dropped open wide and she mentioned that plans are underway to head there very soon and offered me an invitation to go with her. She has made an amazing discovery in Ecuador and an ET connection with some technology discovered in a cave. It sounds to good to be true but we have been communicating for a few months now and she has an incredible story that I think would make a good thread. I hope to share more with you. I'm just a little nervous about traveling to a foreign country where I won't be able to understand the language, I'm such a Gringo...lol

Sidney
9th September 2011, 04:19
Good ol Craigslist!!! : )

http://quito.craigslist.org/

Bill Ryan
10th September 2011, 23:18
-------

I've literally lost count of the people I met who had a very strong sudden feeling (more than an intuition -- revealed knowledge, or even an instruction) that they had to move to Vilcabamba.

Some people even packed up and moved there with all their belongings... without having even visited the place first. To the best of my knowledge, none of them have regretted their decision.

Argos
11th September 2011, 02:52
Yes, Bill, you may put my name down on that list of people "who had a very strong sudden feeling...that they had to move to Vilcabamba."
My connection was to the vision and beautiful spirit of Dr. O'Leary. I regret I came to know of him only in the last 18 months. I was in fact planning a trip to his retreat, when I learned of his death. I was and continue to be greatly disheartened. I feel as though something beautiful has gone out from the world. Yet, Vilcabamba and Montesuenos remain. I'm simply unsure now whether I feel the same connection to the place, absent Dr. O'Leary.

Bill Ryan
11th September 2011, 23:04
Yes, Bill, you may put my name down on that list of people "who had a very strong sudden feeling...that they had to move to Vilcabamba."
My connection was to the vision and beautiful spirit of Dr. O'Leary. I regret I came to know of him only in the last 18 months. I was in fact planning a trip to his retreat, when I learned of his death. I was and continue to be greatly disheartened. I feel as though something beautiful has gone out from the world. Yet, Vilcabamba and Montesuenos remain. I'm simply unsure now whether I feel the same connection to the place, absent Dr. O'Leary.

Brian was a dear friend and a very wonderful man. He was indirectly responsible for a huge influx of expats into Vilcabamba: when he and his wife Meredith first arrived, there were maybe ten gringos there. Now there are over a thousand.

But he rarely visited the town, preferring instead the tranquility of Montesueños (http://montesuenos.org) -- 2-3 miles away on the hillside, 10 minutes by taxi from the town square.

As I understand it, Montesueños is still open for Bed and Breakfast guests to stay. I'm not aware of Meredith's longer-term plans. I am told she's in good shape. I'd certainly love to see her sometime.

http://projectavalon.net/Brian_O_Leary.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Montesuenos.jpg

Christine
11th September 2011, 23:41
I'm just a little nervous about traveling to a foreign country where I won't be able to understand the language, I'm such a Gringo...lol

Your nervousness is understood, I just want to reassure you that everywhere you go you will be greeted by Ecuadorians who will go out of their way to understand you and help.

Christine
12th September 2011, 00:34
Hi La Tigra, I am so glad you've joined the forum. I haven't been to Vilcabamba however I know I would love it. I've spent many hours researching moving there and had ruled it out because it appears hard to do.

It seems you need a letter of reference to open a bank account because the banks are all privately owned and suspicious of potential new customers. And you need an attorney to handle the government red tape, which changes constantly, in order to take up residence. And there really isn't mail service from the town. Even the near by town has spotty service. In understand it can take 2-3 months for mail to get from Vilcabamba to somewhere else in
the world.
Is this all correct? That is what exhaustive research on the internet has shown. I have a small pension, enough cash to buy a little house and a piece of land. I also have an internet business which requires mail service to send out the small electronic devices I make.
All this makes it easy for me to move, however I need internet service, mail service, a way to receive my pension, and permission to stay in the country. Is this as hard as it all seems?


Hello Abundant Traveler,

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum. In answer to your questions and doubts about moving to Ecuador you are right to some degree. I have not tried to open a bank account yet and am just beginning the process of obtaining my permanent visa... so what I do know is that there is a great deal of red tape and a rather overburdened bureaucracy. And yes an attorney is pretty necessary. It seems there are a wide variety of experiences from quick and efficient to frustrating and daunting. So far so good has been mine own experience, though I have had to re-train myself to allow the mechanism to turn in its own time.

Unfortunately the mail service is spotty, Vilcabamba now has a post office but the speed of delivery is unreliable. Internet service is easily available and I imagine the best way to do get money is through your US bank and using a debit card to withdraw. I would say your greatest obstacle would be the mail service and yet depending on the frequency of your mailings you might find a solution. There are private mail services but they are expensive.

Good luck and once again thanks for the welcome.

La Tigra

Christine
12th September 2011, 00:37
I have listened to the discussion about whether one should or should not consider moving to Ecuador, the pros and cons, etc. I understand the trepidation and the possible insecurity when confronted with a move from the known to the unknown, these are the battles that help forge our spirit and lead us to learn more of our true nature. In truth no one can say for anyone else what the outcome of the individual decision to move will be. For me it was an immediate impulse which literally tore down the structure of my “safe” world in the US and once that fractured I was compelled just like shooting the rapids of a river into this new adventure. I found the doors opening for me at a rapid rate and my transition was basically done for me, I only had to follow the road. It did take courage though.

What I strongly feel and believe is that each individual has a calling and a purpose, I have learned to not make judgment on what that is any one individuals life. For some it will be the certainty of staying where they are, for they may be needed there, for others it will be a call to travel and settle in places like Vilcabamba, now is not the time to force things but to listen carefully to the messages that are being fed to us each and every second so that we may make a wise and informed decision.

I posted the thread on Vilcabamba so that those who may feel the call, like someone said "in the very structure of their being", would know that there are many open arms and hearts here.

To answer the questions about what work is available, where to live, how to get a visa I am doing more research so that I can, with personal experience better answer these questions. As you all may be able to imagine, the experiences of coming to live in Ecuador are as varied as the people who arrive. For some it is incredibly easy and for others challenging…. the journey we are on continues to be one of inner knowledge that we manifest in the outer world. That is the Work and where we are geographically is only a reflection. I thank those who have welcomed me to this forum and I hope to be a valued contributing member. Con un gran cariño desde Ecuador.

La Tigra

A picture taken this afternoon that captures the magic in the valley of longevity.

http://projectavalon.net/Madre_Tierra_Rainbow.jpg

vilcabamba
12th September 2011, 19:03
Hi La Tigra,

I plan to be in Vilcabamba first week in Oct. i would love to come by your hotel maybe to see the spa or have dinner. I already have a reservation at another hotel..or i would have spoken to your first. Do you work the front desk? I would like to say hello to a fellow Avalonian.

I am looking for property to buy in Vilcabamba as i have felt a strong urge to go there. I have been trying to wake people up in the United States and i feel as though most are happy to stay asleep which has been quite frustrating for me..as i know we have such high potential. The last years have been spent working and working at waking people up and well..i'm a little drained and need to refuel my energy in a place like Vilcabamba. It looks so peaceful.

I am wondering. Do you know any places or hotels that will allow a little 1o pound potty trained dog. I plan on staying possible for a month or more while i'm in transition looking to find a place to live in Vilcabamba.

ulli
12th September 2011, 19:24
I understand the altitude is 1700 m.
Does that mean you need heating at nights?

onawah
13th September 2011, 02:45
See Carol Rosin talk about her experience of being infiltrated in Vilcabamba about 6 minutes in her talk in the video at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fWBNn_2VD8&feature=player_embedded#at=472


For all the links to the 6 part talk, see the thread at
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30147-Carol-Rosin-A-Call-to-Action-IUFOC-2011&p=306034#post306034

In part three about halfway through, she talks about her face to face experience with ETs

Bridey
14th September 2011, 23:46
Thanks so much for this thread La Tigra! Ever since I read it a week ago I can't stop thinking about it. It's crazy! I literally can't stop! Trying to control my thoughts here but I'm feeling a big pull.

I'm even looking up rentals so I can stay there with my family for a month. Just so we can suss it out and ,perhaps, look for something to buy. I don't own a house here in BC because where I live you can't get a house for under 750,000 dollars. I'm not willing to live my life working my a%$ (pardon me) off to pay for my house. Perhaps investing in a vacation property ( long term living later) would be best for us.

I think this way for many reasons. I don't believe I'm a paranoid person but all the talk lately about the economy and the radiation from Fukashima have been a little bothersome. I live on the coast and all the stuff I hear about the radiation and also the amount of nuclear plants here in the northern hemisphere are a worrying. Also, the repeated bandades the economy puts on these problems only delay the inevitable. I don't dwell on these thoughts because what will be will be but I feel a strong pull to go south now for the last five years and even more so lately. Perhaps I was meant to see this thread and research this area of the world for a reason?

I just wanted to say thank-you. When I make it there, I'll drop by and say hello.

Bill Ryan
15th September 2011, 02:51
I feel a strong pull to go south now for the last five years and even more so lately.

Thanks for your post. I know exactly how you feel. I'm seriously thinking about relocating to Vilcabamba myself... it's become a real gathering place.


Perhaps I was meant to see this thread and research this area of the world for a reason?

That's the way it works! :)

ulli
15th September 2011, 03:07
Thanks for your post. I know exactly how you feel. I'm seriously thinking about relocating to Vilcabamba myself... it's become a real gathering place.
:)

Just as I predicted here, back in June:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22104-DISCUSSION-ATTICUS-and-THE-GROUP-OF-18&p=252507&viewfull=1#post252507

Costa Rica isn't so bad either, but I see you in Ecuador.

Bill Ryan
15th September 2011, 13:18
Thanks for your post. I know exactly how you feel. I'm seriously thinking about relocating to Vilcabamba myself... it's become a real gathering place.
:)

Just as I predicted here, back in June:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22104-DISCUSSION-ATTICUS-and-THE-GROUP-OF-18&p=252507&viewfull=1#post252507


Kudos to you! :)

Here's a photo taken only a few days after you wrote that. Vilcabamba at its finest -- there are rainbows there all the time.

http://projectavalon.net/Bill_rainbow_2_sm.jpg

Snowbird
15th September 2011, 15:44
Synchronicity is alive and well. Not even two weeks ago I was listening to a live channeling lecture (sorry Bill :biggrin1: ) by way of a trusted channel who channels a being from Arcturus. This being stated that the U.S. would very soon be experiencing upheavals and that areas of South America would be far less prone to this.

I have a confession....today is the first time that I have tapped into this thread. Knowing that I would not be able to attend Bill and Inelia's seminar at the O'Learys, I just haven't paid too much attention to Vilcabamba or Ecuador or South America. I don't travel.

Two days ago I sat and had a long chat with an employee of mine whose extended family just happens to stem from Ecuador. We talked about life in Ecuador and the Rain Forest and the horse culture in that country. We talked for an hour about Ecuador. I was very interested. It's not like me. Why would I care about Ecuador? :nod:

Last night I sat and read the transcript of the channeling session from the being from Arcturus because I was looking for other information on a different subject. However, the comment he made about South America popped out at me, although I didn't think much of it.

This morning I tapped into this thread for the first time and am astonished at what I have read. Vilcabamba is simply gorgeous! What a beautiful life! Will I ever make that move? Hmmm...I would first have to become financially free...which I'm not. I would love to retire in a place of beauty such as Vilcabamba surrounded by other gringos who have a healthy respect for that beauty and by people of the country who are friendly. I am gutsy enough to do that if I have connections in the country and the money to do it although I don't speak the language. I have made major moves before within the U.S., so I have an idea as to how to go about it.

Time will tell. :cool:

ulli
15th September 2011, 17:03
We talked about life in Ecuador and the Rain Forest and the horse culture in that country. We talked for an hour about Ecuador. I was very interested. It's not like me. Why would I care about Ecuador? :nod:
I would love to retire in a place of beauty such as Vilcabamba surrounded by other gringos who have a healthy respect for that beauty and by people of the country who are friendly. I am gutsy enough to do that if I have connections in the country and the money to do it although I don't speak the language. I have made major moves before within the U.S., so I have an idea as to how to go about it.

Time will tell.[/COLOR][/B] :cool:


It will all fall into place if you desire it.
Here is another synchronicity.
The man who painted this picture,
Equatorian artist Jorge Montalvo,
is a relative of my husband.

http://www.artequino.com/images/PA-Nov_25_031.jpg

AndyWept
15th September 2011, 18:36
Hello Everyone

Here my two-pence worth

I travelled to Vilcabamba this year to attend Bill & Inelia’s conference. It really is a magical place. I experienced some incredible synchronicities, powerful energies and happenings. I also found the inhabitants very spiritual, warm, friendly (ex pats & Ecuadorians alike) and a great sense of community there. I stayed at the Madre Tierra Hotel which is a beautiful place. It did need a little TLC in places, but I think that is being addressed adequately by the new owners.

I had read about people going to Vilcabamba and falling in love with it; buying a house and settling there. I believed that I was not one to be swayed into parting with my nest egg and laughed to myself when imagining someone trying to sell me some real estate.

Whilst at the Madre Tierra, I met Lucia Rene. She was my neighbor in the hotel. A day or so after the seminar, she invited me to go with her to a lovely “out of the way” community in Vilcabamba. She said that I should go take a look and see if I found anything interesting there. Lucia is a very special person indeed and I felt that I should take her advice; after all, I am not going to buy property there so what harm could come to me?

I met the agent/owner Joe and he showed me around. I viewed all that he had to offer but did not feel any urges to buy. I found myself wondering why Lucia had suggested this in the first place. Most of the plots I felt were a little expensive (for my limited budget anyway), some too small, others too large, some with views not to my liking and so on. All quiet lovely though.

On our way back to the office, he remembered one plot that had just come up for sale. It was an old sugar cane mill with great views and in a very quiet and in a very secluded spot. When we drove up and I got out of the car to take a good look, I knew at that very instant, this was the place where I was going to live. It was weird, but I knew this was the reason I had come to Ecuador; not for the seminar as I had thought, but for this little old derelict building. Please do not get me wrong here; the seminar was magical in itself and meeting Bill & Inelia was stuff of dreams, but that’s not why I was there. I know that now.

The next couple of days (on instruction from Inelia) I went back to the Mill and just sat there on the land and in the mill itself; feeling the energy and making sure that the land wanted me there too. Everything felt right, I made an offer and it was accepted. The synchronicity then began (again lol) to make everything happen. Appearing almost on cue, a lawyer who acted on my behalf, an architect and builders who put my design onto paper and into motion and landscape gardeners and so on. I arranged all of this within 4 days. I returned back to the UK, wired all of the funds and the rest is history.

The construction my house (and the realization of my dream) is well under way and it will be completed by mid December. I am moving to Vilcabamba early next year.

Have no fear and trust your instincts. I do!

A huge “thank you” to Bill & Inelia for their seminar that got me out of the UK and looking at Ecuador… and all the magic that it held.

Peace. Andy

Bill Ryan
16th September 2011, 12:55
Here is another synchronicity.
The man who painted this picture,
Equatorian artist Jorge Montalvo,
is a relative of my husband.

http://www.artequino.com/images/PA-Nov_25_031.jpg

That's a really superb picture.


Hello Everyone

Hi, Andy! Thanks for your wonderful message. :)

I'll be in Vilcabamba when you arrive.

Mother
16th September 2011, 16:00
Hello Everyone

Here my two-pence worth

I travelled to Vilcabamba this year to attend Bill & Inelia’s conference. It really is a magical place. I experienced some incredible synchronicities, powerful energies and happenings. I also found the inhabitants very spiritual, warm, friendly (ex pats & Ecuadorians alike) and a great sense of community there. I stayed at the Madre Tierra Hotel which is a beautiful place. It did need a little TLC in places, but I think that is being addressed adequately by the new owners.

I had read about people going to Vilcabamba and falling in love with it; buying a house and settling there. I believed that I was not one to be swayed into parting with my nest egg and laughed to myself when imagining someone trying to sell me some real estate.

Whilst at the Madre Tierra, I met Lucia Rene. She was my neighbor in the hotel. A day or so after the seminar, she invited me to go with her to a lovely “out of the way” community in Vilcabamba. She said that I should go take a look and see if I found anything interesting there. Lucia is a very special person indeed and I felt that I should take her advice; after all, I am not going to buy property there so what harm could come to me?

I met the agent/owner Joe and he showed me around. I viewed all that he had to offer but did not feel any urges to buy. I found myself wondering why Lucia had suggested this in the first place. Most of the plots I felt were a little expensive (for my limited budget anyway), some too small, others too large, some with views not to my liking and so on. All quiet lovely though.

On our way back to the office, he remembered one plot that had just come up for sale. It was an old sugar cane mill with great views and in a very quiet and in a very secluded spot. When we drove up and I got out of the car to take a good look, I knew at that very instant, this was the place where I was going to live. It was weird, but I knew this was the reason I had come to Ecuador; not for the seminar as I had thought, but for this little old derelict building. Please do not get me wrong here; the seminar was magical in itself and meeting Bill & Inelia was stuff of dreams, but that’s not why I was there. I know that now.

The next couple of days (on instruction from Inelia) I went back to the Mill and just sat there on the land and in the mill itself; feeling the energy and making sure that the land wanted me there too. Everything felt right, I made an offer and it was accepted. The synchronicity then began (again lol) to make everything happen. Appearing almost on cue, a lawyer who acted on my behalf, an architect and builders who put my design onto paper and into motion and landscape gardeners and so on. I arranged all of this within 4 days. I returned back to the UK, wired all of the funds and the rest is history.

The construction my house (and the realization of my dream) is well under way and it will be completed by mid December. I am moving to Vilcabamba early next year.

Have no fear and trust your instincts. I do!

A huge “thank you” to Bill & Inelia for their seminar that got me out of the UK and looking at Ecuador… and all the magic that it held.

Peace. Andy

How wonderful, Andy! I wish you a fantastic, warm and peacefull life in Vilcabamba! I wish that too, to everyone, wherever they feel "right and accepted", and (if may suggest something I´ve learned from the seminar) this magic sensation begins at the precise moment when you open yourself to the possibility to find this place inside.
By the way, I´d like to say to every friend here: if you are considering to meet Bill or Lucia or Inelia at some of the events they promote, I couldn´t recommend that enough.

Knowing them is a rewarding experience itself, because it is a meeting with generosity, inteligence and self-donation. Because of these legitimate qualities, they are surrounded by like-mind beings who project a world of wisdom, integrity and high development standards. Know that if you feel afraid or concerns about what can happen by meeting them, maybe this is only the fear - or the desire - of meeting generosity, inteligence, self-donation, wisdom, integrity, and development inside you.

Much has been said about how we expect from the outside changes - our wish to stop the evil, to stop the elite´s abuse, to stop corruption....we want them to give up power, to give up money, to give up control. But now, "the Vilcabamba spirit" is blowing all around the Earth, inviting each one of us, in a very kind summer breeze, to think about how ready we are to give up the very same power, money, control, in our level. It´s about giving ourselves a chance to synchronicity begin, finding a way to grow, surrendering to a collective effort which can lead us all to our best fullfillment. This is my understanding of "We are all One" power. To get to a point like Andy ("wired all the funds and the rest is history") is the very beggining of a life according to new paradigms, but if you think about...it´s about time :eyebrows:, isn´t? :)

Limor Wolf
16th September 2011, 17:57
Boy,you are all so very much inspiring! Thank you for the upliftment that appear so abundantly in this thread.when the pressures of life begin to show their signals on many of us in the cities,it is a bliss to know that there is this place of heaven and tranquility that open its doors and draws people to its natural charm.

you see mother earth! there are some very worthy human beings that are gathering to create a new way of life, maybe this is the talked about ascension? all under the influence of your grace

~Gaia,we are your friends~

firstlook
16th September 2011, 18:11
http://projectavalon.net/Madre_Tierra_1_sm.jpg

I think that is the most beautiful staircase I have ever seen. :first:

Bill Ryan
21st September 2011, 10:00
http://projectavalon.net/Madre_Tierra_1_sm.jpg

I think that is the most beautiful staircase I have ever seen. :first:

It's not quite that beautiful. The photo is a little flattering. I took it myself! :)

But the spirit of the Madre Tierra hotel is welcoming, laid back, very Bohemian, and there are some exceptional people there. This year they've embarked on a visionary and ambitious permaculture project, and La Tigra is considering an expansion of the spa into a fully-fledged wellness center -- featuring a spectrum of therapists of various kinds, an organic juice bar, regular raw food conferences, and all kinds of other good things. It's a pretty good stepping stone for anyone's first visit to Vilcabamba (as AndyWept testified).

Bill Ryan
19th October 2011, 16:22
-------

Hi, All:

I mentioned in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32136-Carol-Clarke-the-most-consistently-accurate-psychic-I-have-come-across&p=327622#post327622) that I've recently relocated to Vilcabamba... so I thought I'd also properly confirm it on this one. I arrived in Ecuador on 30 September, and I'll only be returning to LA if the TV show that Kerry and I have recorded -- the pilot episode of which may be airing in February -- goes to series.

The truth is: I'm really not too bothered about that at the moment. Returning to LA for intensive film shoots, despite the apparent glamour, is actually quite hard, sometimes frustrating work -- and not always much fun: a labor of love rather than anything connected with creative freedom. Kerry and I may each independently try to develop other projects, but for the moment I'm basing myself here in Ecuador: a rich and fascinating place from which to watch the world.

Here's what life is like. It's cheap to live here, and food is fresh and delicious. I'm losing weight without really trying, a natural consequence of a super-healthy alkaline diet, regular Rife treatments, and ongoing spa cleanses, all of which are readily available. I wake up, energized, at 6.30 every morning with the sun -- something I've never done anywhere else unless I've been camping in the mountains.

New friends are all around: it's a little bewildering, having been used for years to being part of an internet community only, with only a tiny handful of allies within easy real-life physical reach. There is a growing visionary community here composed of writers, artists, musicians, healers, and entrepreneurs -- all in Vilcabamba for pretty much the same reasons and often with fascinating personal journeys to share. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit down with a stranger at the village Juice Bar, or on a restaurant terrace, and share a genuinely meaningful personal, metaphysical or political conversation. There is a strong, vibrant and natural commonality of Bohemian vision, values and purpose.

Vilcabamba is refreshing and energizing, but isn't 100% perfect: it's sometimes hard to get certain items, like specialist electronic or computer components, and many vitamin supplements need to be ordered with careful forethought and brought in from the US. One can't just nip round to Best Buy or Whole Foods if something's suddenly needed.

But a number of people come and go to the US regularly, and are always happy to assist with mail deliveries both ways. FedEx is a disaster here (everyone please note). The internet works pretty well, but is usually not fast enough for Skype video. There's quite a lot of bureaucratic red tape -- try opening a bank account here, and it may nearly drive you crazy -- but the nature of the sometimes endless paperchase is developing-country incompetence and inefficiency, rather than anything machiavellian. There are many lawyers (including some quite good ones, both affordable and accessible) who specialize in helping new arrivals navigate their way through the many sometimes hilarious booby-traps. (La Tigra will tell the story of how she went to get her visa validated at a local government office, but was told to return another day because the printer was not working correctly... since it was "too windy". Honest. :) )

And -- maybe this is a good thing! -- the local airport in nearby Loja will close next year for six months, leaving the nearest alternative in Cuenca, some four or five hours away by car or bus. This natural drawbridge may actually assist Vilcabambans, who are increasingly a little concerned that there should not be too destabilizing a rapid influx of new people. I'm well aware of my responsibility not to publicize this remarkable and unusual place too strongly, but I figured that Avalonians should definitely be in the loop. :) A number of people are simply and strongly drawn to come here... it's a story I've heard time and again over the last few weeks. All in all: this is a good place to be.

As before, do ask any questions on this thread. I'm just a newbie. :) But others, like La Tigra (who speaks fluent Spanish, and is well-used to cutting through red tape) will be better able to answer detailed questions and help wherever she can.

My best wishes to everyone -- Bill

Carmody
19th October 2011, 16:40
yes film shoots are myopic and have but one direction they look in. So to be 'one with the camera' means a certain capacity to be engaging while feeling a bit as if your fingernails are being torn out...to be of a certain look, mood, and motion every time the camera is rolling. As well, the money clock ticks by the minute, adding to the surreal aspect, at the same time you are attempting to project a sublime ease and flow. For example, in a 'big' film shoot, on certain days, the more complex ones..the money can be bleeding out at the rate of $100k, or double that...in an/(per) hour. That would be a $+100M film, where all of it was filmed in, lets say, 12-14 weeks. That one would be....a minimum of $49k/h, 24/7, measured at 24 hours per day, for those 12 weeks. This is why people die while filming. The shoots are very grinding and essentially....non-stop.

To return to topic specifically, has any one mentioned that Vilcabamba (there are TWO Vilcabambas) was an elite rest or R+R location for the Incan elites? This, due to the soil, water, air, etc?

Christine
19th October 2011, 16:53
La Tigra (who speaks fluent Spanish, and is well-used to cutting through red tape) will be better able to answer detailed questions and help wherever she can.

Well hello, and thank you Bill for the endorsement! Reality check, I abhor red tape, but yes I will do my best to answer anyone's questions. Honestly, my experience so far has been closer akin to grinning and bearing it in regards to red tape than cutting through it! :) I have come to accept the inconveniences as a small price to pay for the rich pleasures of living in Ecuador.

MargueriteBee
19th October 2011, 17:08
Holy Moly! If I wasnt moving to Trout Lake, WA next year I would be tempted.

Ixopoborn
19th October 2011, 17:29
Oh thanks for the update Bill. You my dear friend deserve all the relaxation you can get. We now have to see how things develop in the developed world.

Me, I am remaining on station here in the UK readying myself to help others as and when they come to need help. I will help to the best of my ability.

Let's hope the disturbances to come all have a positive outcome. I know all Vilcabamban's will be applying intentful and positive thoughts towards that end.

shamanseeker
19th October 2011, 18:39
Hello! Could someone tell me if there would be the likelihood of work for an English teacher (private lessons, that is)? And is it easy to rent a small place? If it is, what are the prices? I've been attracted to South America for a few years now and can't get it out of my head. Was really interested in Peru but have heard it can be pretty dangerous there so Vilcabamba sounds perfect. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this really interesting thread!

the trojan
19th October 2011, 18:46
Hello! Could someone tell me if there would be the likelihood of work for an English teacher (private lessons, that is)? And is it easy to rent a small place? If it is, what are the prices? I've been attracted to South America for a few years now and can't get it out of my head. Was really interested in Peru but have heard it can be pretty dangerous there so Vilcabamba sounds perfect. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this really interesting thread!

This is a question I was going to ask also,Is it possible to earn money there,I dont have savings,pension or any generous rich folk in my life.
I also have no desire to make money from others regardless of any skills I could monetise.( I realise this sentence is maybe naive sounding,but there you are)
So ,how would I be able to live there or is it only a certain financially sound group who live there.

Camilo
19th October 2011, 18:57
I had the opportunity to visit Vilcabamba in June 2011, and stay at Montesueños, for Bill's seminar there. I only stayed there 5 days, but was enough time to enjoy the paradisiac environment. Everything there is great, the people, the food, the sight, the weather, the energies and the way of life. I know some of the people that came to the seminar,are already living there, and many more will be living there within the next 6 months. I feel that I may end up living there as well.

transiten
19th October 2011, 19:29
Actually, like trojan, i wonder how pple are making their living in Vilcabamba?

Anchor
19th October 2011, 22:06
This is a really nice thread.

You will be where you need to be when you need to be there.

I think this is true even if you don't listen to your inner voice and let yourself go quietly to the destination that awaits you. (note also destin in destination and destiny) - and if you don't listen and move with grace as guided, and you really *need* to be there - they by golly the universe will get you there no matter how much trauma and unpleasantness is involved !! You'll be dragged like a kid kicking and screaming because you made the deal before you even got born - so best go with the flow :)

There are no mistakes in the long run.

[ All of the above, my opinion, packaged as fact :) ]

norman
19th October 2011, 22:14
If this Vilcabamba exodus gets any more 'elite' I know I'm going to be wondering if it was all a fake opposition all along.

Jeez, the NAZIs ran a pretty convincing "bad guy" alternative to the mainstream European status quo. Then they cut a deal ( took completion of an older deal) and popped up in south america like they were given it as a gift for being good lads! As for Bill, hey, Bill, were you left that place in his will?

Aryslan
19th October 2011, 22:23
Hello! Could someone tell me if there would be the likelihood of work for an English teacher (private lessons, that is)? And is it easy to rent a small place? If it is, what are the prices? I've been attracted to South America for a few years now and can't get it out of my head. Was really interested in Peru but have heard it can be pretty dangerous there so Vilcabamba sounds perfect. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this really interesting thread!

This is a question I was going to ask also,Is it possible to earn money there,I dont have savings,pension or any generous rich folk in my life.
I also have no desire to make money from others regardless of any skills I could monetise.( I realise this sentence is maybe naive sounding,but there you are)
So ,how would I be able to live there or is it only a certain financially sound group who live there.

I second this question. Would it be possible to teach english there? Or are most folks pretty fluent already?

RMorgan
20th October 2011, 12:54
Please, don´t get me wrong, but there are some things I need to say here.

As a Brazilian, I´ve seen a lot of "Vilcabamba" like villages being literally destroyed by a huge flux of people moving in from abroad.

You, who want to relocated to villages like that should be very very careful on how you behave and with the consequences.

There are several recurrent problems that insist to happen in this kind of situation:

1 - As dollars are usually much more valuable than the local currency, a big influx of dollars can and will make things much more expensive there.

2 - Greed. Most part of the locals are very simple persons, but not necessarily wise persons. With a huge flux of foreign currency and work opportunity, they will be experiencing something they´ve never experienced before, which is greed. This often transform locals, who really hadn´t to much contact with real money before, in greedy persons, because it will change their simple, almost goods centered socialist life style, into strong money centered lifestyle.

3 - Properties. With a huge influx of dollars and persons with considerably more money than the locals, the properties prices will rise hugely. This, of course, will make properties (and everything else) more expensive for the locals as well. This, with time, will create a terrible class separation : The rich/explorers (foreigers) and the poor/explored (locals), in a place where, before, there was basically just one class, no rich, no poor, just simple people. Social contrast is a terrible beast, believe me.

4 - Trash. These kinds of small villages deal with very little trash or garbage. A big influx of people moving in from abroad, will make the amount of trash raise considerably. Think about how they will manage this trash. Often, they just throw it in a inappropriate place in the woods or burn it, which will lead to contaminated water, polluted air and rivers, and will attract diseases.

5 - Sewer. Most villages like that don´t have an appropriate sewer system. Think about where your human waste is gonna go. This is a very serious recurrent problem. Most cities don´t have appropriate waste tanks, so you can imagine the consequences....


Locals charge very very inexpensive (for foreigners) fees for their services. Like Bill said above : " It's cheap to live here".

Remember that cheap/expensive are just signs of unbalance. There´s a place in the middle which is called fair/honest/balanced.

The problem is that this "cheap" is not even "cheap", it´s an unbalanced value, and foreigners don´t seem to care about exploring the hell out of this "cheap", even knowing that this "cheap" is an unfair value, considering the foreigner´s much superior economic power.

So the solution is, instead of trying to explore this unfair and mostly unbalanced "cheap" forever, is to think a little bit, be kind, and if someone offers you a service for really "cheap", be honest with yourselves, get of of the explorer position, and pay a little bit more for the service. Pay what you consider to be fair. This way, with time, you can avoid the inevitable social contrast, helping everyone from the community to prosper more equally.

Class separation is terrible but it´s on your hands to avoid it.

I´ve seen many villages literally invaded by foreigners looking to have an alternative life style, to be transformed in miniature feudal societies. Don´t try to make an alternative life just for yourself, but try to live and make an alternative lifestyle for the whole community.

Don´t explore the local inexpensive and fragile economy. Work hard to be fair persons and to improve the local economy in a sustainable way. If you are really relocating there, participate actively in the management of the village, to improve it, not to explore it.

I hope you all to think about this issues and, if you decide to relocate to villages like Vilcabamba, do your best to be a positive part of the community, not just another "gringo" exploring the naivety of the locals, in order to live a selfish alternative lifestyle.

The balance in such places is very delicate and fragile.

Cheers,

Raf.

transiten
20th October 2011, 13:11
RMorgan, a truly valuable post!

RMorgan
20th October 2011, 14:27
RMorgan, a truly valuable post!


You know, I had to say that.

I´ve seen so many paradises transformed into chaotic pseudo alternative community refuges.

We must remember that the locals were living this "alternative" life style in peace a long time before we arrive there, and most probably their "alternative" life style, is much more sustainable for the place than ours.

Most of the times, the locals are just living their lives in a balanced and peaceful way. If you´re not absolutely sure that your presence in such places will actually improve EVERYONE´s lives, not just your life, just stay where you are.

Ixopoborn
20th October 2011, 14:46
RMorgan, a truly valuable post!


You know, I had to say that.

I´ve seen so many paradises transformed into chaotic pseudo alternative community refuges.

We must remember that the locals were living this "alternative" life style in peace a long time before we arrive there, and most probably their "alternative" life style, is much more sustainable for the place than ours.

Most of the times, the locals are just living their lives in a balanced and peaceful way. If you´re not absolutely sure that your presence in such places will actually improve EVERYONE´s lives, not just your life, just stay where you are.

Wise words thanks RMorgan.

Christine
21st October 2011, 13:56
Hello all,

I can only add my sincere endorsement to the issues that RMorgan has so thoughtfully brought forward. For many years I lived in a small Mexican village that started attracting many artists, healers, musicians, and bohemians of all types. At first life was simple and inexpensive, at the time I moved there you had to learn Spanish and were easily integrated into the local community. I became "part" of the existing community, started a business, worked hard to make a living, became involved in various projects, etc. In the simplest terms I just lived my life without a philosophy or creed that said I was different or better than the place I had settled and because I was young and came without any real means my integration was complete.

As the years the passed more and more folk heard about our town and started arriving with lots of money and ideas about how to improve the town, on the story goes, even the best intentioned started the unavoidable changes that started defining the separation of the locals (including the first gringos who wanted to protect their lifestyle) and the newcomers bursting with cash and ideas. It is a sad story, watching a place of enchantment and beauty fall to greed and and corruption. There is not the space in this post to relate the details of the decline into greed, but I am sure many of you can imagine.

As I write these words I see the potential problems that Vilcabamba faces as more and more folk decide to move there, but as I learned in Mexico, there is nothing that can be done to stop this influx because there are so many out there that are looking for the opportunity of a new start and are pulled to a place that promises the opportunity to take part in creating a more satisfying world, and that is one of the highest ideals, then there are those who see an opportunity to make money and live cheaply (old paradigm) but how do you stop them? We are faced with a microcosm of the whole human condition and only by each and every individual within that microcosm accepting their own full responsibility of action and thought many we even come close to unraveling the dilemmas before us.

Yes, Vilcabamba is an opportunity, and it is an experiment. I will close by echoing RMorgan and saying that each individual who makes the choice to settle in Vilcambamba (or other similar locals) be supremely cognizant of their motivation.

There is an extraordinarily large ratio of conscious people in Vilcabamba as well as a broad representation of different life philosophies and spiritual paths that have converged here, I am grateful for the opportunity to live here and contribute whatever wisdom and skill I have acquired during my life to help deepen the understanding and evolution of our human condition.

Thank you all for your thoughtful posts,
La Tigra

Bill Ryan
21st October 2011, 13:57
Please, don´t get me wrong, but there are some things I need to say here.

As a Brazilian, I´ve seen a lot of "Vilcabamba" like villages being literally destroyed by a huge flux of people moving in from abroad.

You, who want to relocated to villages like that should be very very careful on how you behave and with the consequences.

There are several recurrent problems that insist to happen in this kind of situation:

1 - As dollars are usually much more valuable than the local currency, a big influx of dollars can and will make things much more expensive there.

2 - Greed. Most part of the locals are very simple persons, but not necessarily wise persons. With a huge flux of foreign currency and work opportunity, they will be experiencing something they´ve never experienced before, which is greed. This often transform locals, who really hadn´t to much contact with real money before, in greedy persons, because it will change their simple, almost goods centered socialist life style, into strong money centered lifestyle.

3 - Properties. With a huge influx of dollars and persons with considerably more money than the locals, the properties prices will rise hugely. This, of course, will make properties (and everything else) more expensive for the locals as well. This, with time, will create a terrible class separation : The rich/explorers (foreigers) and the poor/explored (locals), in a place where, before, there was basically just one class, no rich, no poor, just simple people. Social contrast is a terrible beast, believe me.

4 - Trash. These kinds of small villages deal with very little trash or garbage. A big influx of people moving in from abroad, will make the amount of trash raise considerably. Think about how they will manage this trash. Often, they just throw it in a inappropriate place in the woods or burn it, which will lead to contaminated water, polluted air and rivers, and will attract diseases.

5 - Sewer. Most villages like that don´t have an appropriate sewer system. Think about where your human waste is gonna go. This is a very serious recurrent problem. Most cities don´t have appropriate waste tanks, so you can imagine the consequences....


Locals charge very very inexpensive (for foreigners) fees for their services. Like Bill said above : " It's cheap to live here".

Remember that cheap/expensive are just signs of unbalance. There´s a place in the middle which is called fair/honest/balanced.

The problem is that this "cheap" is not even "cheap", it´s an unbalanced value, and foreigners don´t seem to care about exploring the hell out of this "cheap", even knowing that this "cheap" is an unfair value, considering the foreigner´s much superior economic power.

So the solution is, instead of trying to explore this unfair and mostly unbalanced "cheap" forever, is to think a little bit, be kind, and if someone offers you a service for really "cheap", be honest with yourselves, get of of the explorer position, and pay a little bit more for the service. Pay what you consider to be fair. This way, with time, you can avoid the inevitable social contrast, helping everyone from the community to prosper more equally.

Class separation is terrible but it´s on your hands to avoid it.

I´ve seen many villages literally invaded by foreigners looking to have an alternative life style, to be transformed in miniature feudal societies. Don´t try to make an alternative life just for yourself, but try to live and make an alternative lifestyle for the whole community.

Don´t explore the local inexpensive and fragile economy. Work hard to be fair persons and to improve the local economy in a sustainable way. If you are really relocating there, participate actively in the management of the village, to improve it, not to explore it.

I hope you all to think about this issues and, if you decide to relocate to villages like Vilcabamba, do your best to be a positive part of the community, not just another "gringo" exploring the naivety of the locals, in order to live a selfish alternative lifestyle.

The balance in such places is very delicate and fragile.

Cheers,

Raf.

Hi, Raf --

Wonderful post, perfectly and intelligently stated. Really valuable and all 100% relevant.

I've immediately forwarded it to a group of expat Vilcabambans (all very good people, by the way)... La Tigra and I are meeting with them on Sunday to discuss these very issues.

Many here are very aware of everything you mention, but of course some are not. There is a real problem with inflating local economy driven by real estate prices (and one or two gringos have been really insensitive here in the past), impact on the local environment and culture, and important issues like sewage and trash.

Many readers will know that my friend Dr Brian O'Leary, who recently passed, lived here (his wonderful wife Meredith still does) -- and was also acutely aware of the impact of the rapid growth. It's a microcosm of the huge global problems we all must grapple with and solve -- and an opportunity to set an example by getting it right.

All best wishes, Bill

RMorgan
21st October 2011, 14:08
Hi, Raf --

Wonderful post, perfectly and intelligently stated. Really valuable and all 100% relevant.

I've immediately forwarded it to a group of expat Vilcabambans (all very good people, by the way)... La Tigra and I are meeting with them on Sunday to discuss these very issues. Many here are very aware of all these issues, but of course some are not. There is a real problem with inflating local economy driven by real estate prices (and one or two gringos have been really insensitive here in the past), impact on the local environment and culture, and important issues like sewage and trash.

Many readers will know that my friend Dr Brian O'Leary, who recently passed, lived here (his wonderful wife Meredith still does) -- and was also acutely aware of the impact of the rapid growth. It's a microcosm of the huge global problems we all must grapple with and solve -- and an opportunity to set an example by getting it right.

All best wishes, Bill

Hi Bill,

I´m really glad that you´re aware of all these issues.

I hope you, now that you´re relocating to Vilcabamba, can help other foreigners to create, together, a peaceful and sustainable community, that will benefit the whole village and improve everyone´s life quality.

You´re a natural leader, and your position in relation to this issues will hopefully set a great example for others to follow.

Cheers,

Raf.

the trojan
21st October 2011, 14:47
forgive my ignorance Bill,but what is an ex pat Vilacamban?
Is this a meeting only for ex pat Vilacambans or are all Vilacambans invited.
Are you now a resident there,as in Do you have a property there that you live in or are you living in accomodation?


and one for you LaTigra....
Do you run a hotel/hostel/rent out rooms kinda thing?

Bill Ryan
21st October 2011, 14:59
forgive my ignorance Bill,but what is an ex pat Vilacamban?

expat = expatriate. Someone who's no longer living in their country of origin. In Vilcabamba, anyone who's not an Ecuadorian and who has come there to start a new life. They come with visions, ideals and often (but not always!) great awareness - and then inevitably have an impact on the life of the locals, whatever their intentions.

RMorgan
21st October 2011, 15:37
forgive my ignorance Bill,but what is an ex pat Vilacamban?
Is this a meeting only for ex pat Vilacambans or are all Vilacambans invited.
Are you now a resident there,as in Do you have a property there that you live in or are you living in accomodation?

I guess he means expatriated Vilcabambas = Foreigners who live in Vilcabamba.

These meetings should be held in private first, until the foreigners are accepted by locals as honorary Vilcabambans citizens.

Like most countries in the world, locals wouldn´t like foreigners making decisions regarding local issues, specially in South-America, after centuries of exploitation.

In fact, foreigners don´t have any legal rights to make any local decision on a politic level.

Once you have a solid plan to help improve the village´s overall life quality it´s very important to think strategically before presenting it to local authorities.

the trojan
21st October 2011, 15:55
forgive my ignorance Bill,but what is an ex pat Vilacamban?
Is this a meeting only for ex pat Vilacambans or are all Vilacambans invited.
Are you now a resident there,as in Do you have a property there that you live in or are you living in accomodation?

I guess he means expatriated Vilcabambas = Foreigners who live in Vilcabamba.

These meetings should be held in private first, until the foreigners are accepted by locals as honorary Vilcabambans citizens.

Like most countries in the world, locals wouldn´t like foreigners making decisions regarding local issues, specially in South-America, after centuries of exploitation.

In fact, foreigners don´t have any legal rights to make any local decision on a politic level.

Once you have a solid plan to help improve the village´s overall life quality it´s very important to think strategically before presenting it to local authorities.

Thanks for answering RMorgan,
Its a recurring theme here on Avalon that others come in and answer questions on others behalf.
It would have been so easy for Bill to answer with much the same as you did,thanks again.
I also see LaTigra and Bill have gone now ,they were just here as well,so I dont think I will have an answer from them...sad really.

one more thing my friend,you state taht,These meetings should be held in private first, until the foreigners are accepted by locals as honorary Vilcabambans citizens.
Isnt that a divisional thing ,surely everyone living there is now a member of the community and there should be no need for meetings amongst ex-pats to discuss anything.That is a bit like only Lithuanians who live in my community,having Lithuanian only meetings and is in no way integrational?

Bill Ryan
21st October 2011, 16:10
Hello all,

I can only add my sincere endorsement to the issues that RMorgan has so thoughtfully brought forward. For many years I lived in a small Mexican village that started attracting many artists, healers, musicians, and bohemians of all types. At first life was simple and inexpensive, at the time I moved there you had to learn Spanish and were easily integrated into the local community. I became "part" of the existing community, started a business, worked hard to make a living, became involved in various projects, etc. In the simplest terms I just lived my life without a philosophy or creed that said I was different or better than the place I had settled and because I was young and came without any real means my integration was complete.

As the years the passed more and more folk heard about our town and started arriving with lots of money and ideas about how to improve the town, on the story goes, even the best intentioned started the unavoidable changes that started defining the separation of the locals (including the first gringos who wanted to protect their lifestyle) and the newcomers bursting with cash and ideas. It is a sad story, watching a place of enchantment and beauty fall to greed and and corruption. There is not the space in this post to relate the details of the decline into greed, but I am sure many of you can imagine.

As I write these words I see the potential problems that Vilcabamba faces as more and more folk decide to move there, but as I learned in Mexico, there is nothing that can be done to stop this influx because there are so many out there that are looking for the opportunity of a new start and are pulled to a place that promises the opportunity to take part in creating a more satisfying world, and that is one of the highest ideals, then there are those who see an opportunity to make money and live cheaply (old paradigm) but how do you stop them? We are faced with a microcosm of the whole human condition and only by each and every individual within that microcosm accepting their own full responsibility of action and thought many we even come close to unraveling the dilemmas before us.

Yes, Vilcabamba is an opportunity, and it is an experiment. I will close by echoing RMorgan and saying that each individual who makes the choice to settle in Vilcambamba (or other similar locals) be supremely cognizant of their motivation.

There is an extraordinarily large ratio of conscious people in Vilcabamba as well as a broad representation of different life philosophies and spiritual paths that have converged here, I am grateful for the opportunity to live here and contribute whatever wisdom and skill I have acquired during my life to help deepen the understanding and evolution of our human condition.

Thank you all for your thoughtful posts,
La Tigra

This is another wonderful post, that propelled me deep into thought.

I've traveled quite a lot in Africa and India, and many times have mentioned this in posts. What I saw convinced me of two things:

1) Environmental awareness is the prerequisite of the privileged, wealthy first world elite (i.e. those like you and me). And even many of those do not care.

2) There's an immense and growing New Age naivete -- a drum I beat regularly -- among those who believe they will magically 'ascend' out of this mess. Although there is a gradually accelerating increase of consciousness (particularly among the wealthy and educated - again, i.e. those like you and me), nothing could be farther from any truth that we're magically going to escape our responsibilities.

Only a tiny number of individuals have risen to positions of leadership and the highest levels of personal example where they can catalyze real change in the world. The challenges are immense, and will not go away anytime soon.

Here are some of the challenges (this is Nigeria, where I lived as a young child):

http://projectavalon.net/Niger_2.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Niger_8.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Niger_11.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/Niger_13.jpg

Here's the opening paragraph of Thom Hartmann’s masterwork, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight: (http://www.amazon.com/Last-Hours-Ancient-Sunlight-Revised/dp/1400051576)



In the 24 hours since this time yesterday, over 200,000 acres of rainforest have been destroyed in our world. Fully 13 million tons of toxic chemicals have been released into our environment. Over 45,000 people have died of starvation, 38,000 of them children. And more than 130 plant or animal species have been driven to extinction by the actions of humans. (The last time there was such a rapid loss of species was when the dinosaurs vanished.) And all this just since yesterday.

So we have to get this right -- working in harness and harmony with people of all races, colors and cultures all over the world, before it's too late.

Christine
21st October 2011, 16:15
I wonder sometimes if we could all just stop. Really stop. Stop projecting, stop defending, stop hurting, stop fearing, just stop, stand still and listen, what would we hear? How would we perceive, what would we perceive? And then ask, what should I do? How can I change? Um... the pictures above evoked this reaction.

RMorgan
21st October 2011, 16:16
Thanks for answering RMorgan,
Its a recurring theme here on Avalon that others come in and answer questions on others behalf.
It would have been so easy for Bill to answer with much the same as you did,thanks again.
I also see LaTigra and Bill have gone now ,they were just here as well,so I dont think I will have an answer from them...sad really.

one more thing my friend,you state taht,These meetings should be held in private first, until the foreigners are accepted by locals as honorary Vilcabambans citizens.
Isnt that a divisional thing ,surely everyone living there is now a member of the community and there should be no need for meetings amongst ex-pats to discuss anything.That is a bit like only Lithuanians who live in my community,having Lithuanian only meetings and is in no way integrational?

It´s not a matter of division and segregation. It´s a matter of psychology. Would you like if a stranger knocked on your door and started to discuss your personal life? Or you would just tell him to go mind his own business? It´s the same thing.

The locals wont like to see foreigners discussing local matters, at least until they actually feel they can trust the foreigners, which may take a looong time.

Another reason for that is, when you hold a meeting in private, you have the freedom to make contradictions. But once you decide to present a plan or suggestion to local authorities, you must be 100% sure that you have a solid suggestion.

Ilie Pandia
21st October 2011, 16:23
Hello,

May I suggest that "rushing to Vilcabamba" may be, in some cases, another form of escaping responsibility? Not so different than "I will ascend from this mess!".

I agree that in the beginning, it seems you need a safe place to become more aware and loving, and you cannot do that if you have nothing to eat or a roof over your head... But once you get to a level where you are stable enough in your awareness, once you know who you are... stay! Stay where you are now, and set the base for a "new Vilcabamba". Be the focus lens. If we create thousands of such "awareness centers", they will be virtually impossible to infiltrate or destroy... but if we all rush to Vilcabamba for our "salvation", not matter how good our intentions are, we may end up ruining it... so look for a nurturing environment, but also look for ways to develop one yourself!

modwiz
21st October 2011, 16:41
Wherever inroads are made and enough comfort to support them develops the parasites show up to begin and tap the fresh blood of a new vein. It is incumbent on the 'natives', old and new, to recognize these types from the moment they show up. Their arrival is not haphazard either. There is always at least one "scout". Someone who slips under the radar until the new friend arrives and then you see the energy ties and plans already discussed as to proceedings. This is the moment of truth when both the newcomer(s) and accomplice must be ejected from the community. Failure for the immune system of a community to do its job effectively and efficiently inevitably results in a chronic and deadly 'infection'. It has been said that all evil needs is for good men (people) to do nothing. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is another saying worthy of remembering.

No simple task this. Consciousness as to the genesis of these conditions has been largely missing. It is now understood how to prevent cholera and other sanitation related diseases. You must know what and where the pollutant arises from however.

the trojan
21st October 2011, 16:44
Thanks for answering RMorgan,
Its a recurring theme here on Avalon that others come in and answer questions on others behalf.
It would have been so easy for Bill to answer with much the same as you did,thanks again.
I also see LaTigra and Bill have gone now ,they were just here as well,so I dont think I will have an answer from them...sad really.

one more thing my friend,you state taht,These meetings should be held in private first, until the foreigners are accepted by locals as honorary Vilcabambans citizens.
Isnt that a divisional thing ,surely everyone living there is now a member of the community and there should be no need for meetings amongst ex-pats to discuss anything.That is a bit like only Lithuanians who live in my community,having Lithuanian only meetings and is in no way integrational?

It´s not a matter of division and segregation. It´s a matter of psychology. Would you like if a stranger knocked on your door and started to discuss your personal life? Or you would just tell him to go mind his own business? It´s the same thing.

The locals wont like to see foreigners discussing local matters, at least until they actually feel they can trust the foreigners, which may take a looong time.

Another reason for that is, when you hold a meeting in private, you have the freedom to make contradictions. But once you decide to present a plan or suggestion to local authorities, you must be 100% sure that you have a solid suggestion.

I think we agree then?

RMorgan
21st October 2011, 16:59
Hello Ilie, Bill, La Tigra , The Trojan and Modwiz,

I think we´re having a really healthy discussion here.

As La Tigra said, she´s lived a similar situation, where a paradise was transformed into hell. This is so sad, but I understand how and why it happens.

Some people want to start a new life, and that´s beautiful, but unfortunately, most part of them are so confused, that they don´t have the mental and spiritual condition to let things go and start it over from scratch.

Some persons, when moving to such places, unconsciously take all the bad habits and social confusion that they want to leave behind, with them. So, instead of actually making themselves adapt to this new place, they make all sorts of incoherent actions to make the place adapt to themselves.

You know, I have a place in the woods on the São Tomé das Letras region, which is a sad example of this situation. It used to be a beautiful, fantastic, even transcended place, but now it´s flooded with corruption, greed and hundreds of the most crazy (literally) kinds of alternative communities. The locals there, were transformed into suspicious, malevolent, resentful persons and the invaders are completely moved by self interest.

It´s very hard to avoid this kind of situation to keep repeating forever. Our minds trick us to think the contrary, but we are animals, the most complex kind of animals, but still animals.

Now you have the opportunity to make things different in Vilcabamba, so please, fight with your hearts and always, always work together with the local authorities, because they are the ones who are most susceptible to corruption, for many reasons. Keep your eyes on them.

Don´t take many things from your "old" life with you. Learn the language, learn new habits, learn the culture and, please, don´t let the dollar infiltrate the local economy. Use the local currency.

Adapt to the place, don´t try to make the place adapt to you and don´t ever forget you are the guests there.

I´ll go for a visit in the near future, and you better behave well!!! :)

Cheers,

Raf.

the trojan
21st October 2011, 18:00
well said Raf,
Ive been on you tube and could not believe the amount of videos on Vilcabamba..lots of info out there.
Showed some to my kids...they suggested going somewhere colder!!!!!
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaghh!

Carmody
21st October 2011, 18:14
The precedent must be set early and strongly. However, it is a nebulous affair and much can sneak in under any form or direction of umbrella from any given side of the discussion.

Aurelius
21st October 2011, 18:19
<snip the message>

Anno
21st October 2011, 18:33
May I suggest that "rushing to Vilcabamba" may be, in some cases, another form of escaping responsibility? Not so different than "I will ascend from this mess!". [...]

I couldn't agree more. My sole objection to migration is that people leave their own behind to rot while they take care of number one in a 'better' country. I'm not just talking about poor people from countries we didn't know existed coming to claim benefits or ex-pats who live in the sun saying how the old country has gone down the tubes whilst still claiming their pensions.
Wealthy educated types are better known as Trustafarians or Bohemaclats. They're just as bad if not worse because they are the ones that could actually sort their homelands out.

Then consider the effects migration like this has. The local community gets a big boost with all these new well meaning people and their economy changes to adapt. All goes well until the fad dies down and then the new economy no longer works. We're about to see this happen in the UK as the prestige of having a University Degree dies off and cities are left full of empty student accomodation buildings and clubs because the locals left years ago.

If you think where you live is in a mess then stand your ground and fix it. Running away and taking your problems with you is cowardly and without honour. Thinking any kind of 'enlightenment' could come from such an act is dellusional. You started where you did for a reason and whatever the place and people are like, you owe them. =]

RMorgan
21st October 2011, 18:44
May I suggest that "rushing to Vilcabamba" may be, in some cases, another form of escaping responsibility? Not so different than "I will ascend from this mess!". [...]

I couldn't agree more. My sole objection to migration is that people leave their own behind to rot while they take care of number one in a 'better' country. I'm not just talking about poor people from countries we didn't know existed coming to claim benefits or ex-pats who live in the sun saying how the old country has gone down the tubes whilst still claiming their pensions.
Wealthy educated types are better known as Trustafarians or Bohemaclats. They're just as bad if not worse because they are the ones that could actually sort their homelands out.

Then consider the effects migration like this has. The local community gets a big boost with all these new well meaning people and their economy changes to adapt. All goes well until the fad dies down and then the new economy no longer works. We're about to see this happen in the UK as the prestige of having a University Degree dies off and cities are left full of empty student accomodation buildings and clubs because the locals left years ago.

If you think where you live is in a mess then stand your ground and fix it. Running away and taking your problems with you is cowardly and without honour. Thinking any kind of 'enlightenment' could come from such an act is dellusional. You started where you did for a reason and whatever the place and people are like, you owe them. =]

Well, I´d rather not to judge.

Some people migrate for selfish reasons or to run away from something indeed. However, some people migrate for spiritual purposes, looking for answers that are hard to unveil on their original environment, and for a chance to start from scratch, which is a good thing.

I´ll always welcome open minded and spiritually connected persons where I live and I guess these kind of persons are a very good addition anywhere.

It´s always nice to have good people around ourselves.

You know, sometimes we just don´t belong where we are.

I find this notion of belonging to a place just because you´re born there to be very very limited and artificial.

grannyfranny100
21st October 2011, 19:55
In addition to Dr. Carol Rosin's experiences which has been mentioned, I strongly recommend Gary Scott's newsletter
http://www.garyascott.com/?utm_source=Gary+A.+Scott+Newsletter&utm_campaign=e497ad0580-RSS_DAILY_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email
for understanding this magnificent country and where one fits best.

Gary Scott has archives that are definitely valuable and he mixes his years of international financial acumen with native shaman wisdom. He conducts tours and seminars to help people select relocation properties, legitimate attorneys for real estate transactions and visas, learn Spanish in four days, investigate export and micro internet businesses, etc. Plus there are valuable accounts of things he has started that uplift native people's education and creative job skills. He turns you on to Cotacachi a pastoral ecuadorian village run by an inventive mayor, the first eco city on the coast and more.

I am not immune to the interest in Vilcabamba, I remember the early days of Soho in NYC and the marvelous espirit de corp of new communities. But there are lots of things to consider. You can't bring a car to this country that is older than the current year, hospitals are hours away and roads are often washed out in storms. Plus many of the early adopters who moved there in the early 1970's, are long gone.

Yes, it is important to follow your instincts but moving to one location because it is hot, lacks the mixing of instincts with intelligence. Run Towards Your Passion – Not Away from your Frustrations and Fears which is what I suspect is behind the lemming- like interest in Vilcabamba in some posts in this thread.

Ilie Pandia
21st October 2011, 22:19
May I suggest that "rushing to Vilcabamba" may be, in some cases, another form of escaping responsibility? Not so different than "I will ascend from this mess!". [...]

I couldn't agree more. My sole objection to migration is that people leave their own behind to rot while they take care of number one in a 'better' country. I'm not just talking about poor people from countries we didn't know existed coming to claim benefits or ex-pats who live in the sun saying how the old country has gone down the tubes whilst still claiming their pensions.
Wealthy educated types are better known as Trustafarians or Bohemaclats. They're just as bad if not worse because they are the ones that could actually sort their homelands out.

Then consider the effects migration like this has. The local community gets a big boost with all these new well meaning people and their economy changes to adapt. All goes well until the fad dies down and then the new economy no longer works. We're about to see this happen in the UK as the prestige of having a University Degree dies off and cities are left full of empty student accomodation buildings and clubs because the locals left years ago.

If you think where you live is in a mess then stand your ground and fix it. Running away and taking your problems with you is cowardly and without honour. Thinking any kind of 'enlightenment' could come from such an act is dellusional. You started where you did for a reason and whatever the place and people are like, you owe them. =]

That is not exactly what I've meant. Sometimes moving to a new location, that is supportive of you, is exactly what you need.

As someone said already make sure your motivation is clear, before you make the move.

And another important point was to create more such centers as Vilcambamba, cause we need them.

I did not suggest that all that go there, are cowards or run away from responsibility.

Anno
21st October 2011, 22:55
[...]I did not suggest that all that go there, are cowards or run away from responsibility.

No that's purely an Anno sentiment. You can tell from the blunt force honesty.

###

Stay at home people. Make your own home nicer. Make your garden nice so people smile when they see it. Pick up litter. Then help your neighbours. Then the people in the next street. Or as people around here often say, "Be the change you want to see in the world". Starting little safe havens in places with nice weather and low living costs smells very much like Illuminati. This happened with Sri Lanka and many of TPTB celebs started to move out there back in the day from Crowley and Blavatsky to GB Shaw and AC Clarke.

If you want an example, seeing as we're on Avalon, let's consider Bill. Like most UK cities Bristol is suffering with all this gangsta bull poop that's invaded the UK from America. We know the Illuminati are behind it as many rappers (like KRS1) keep trying to tell us. If you haven't seen his videos I suggest you check them out. He was VERY respected in the 80's/90's hip hop scene but now he speaks out about how hip hop was taken over by tptb he's not so popular.
If Bill spent one month doing outreach youth work teaching the kids of his home town the hidden meanings and illuminati links in the music he'd make a much bigger impact on this world than in a year spent travelling the world speaking to groups of people who already know this stuff. It'd be a pretty cool video to watch, too.

Grass roots is where it's at if you really want to see change. Deep down you all know this but it's not as attractive as living in the sun around like minded people is it. If that's what you want and you can afford it, then awesome, just don't make out like you're doing it to save the world. You're abandoning your world and creating one of your own for the people who agree with you to hide from the reality you know you're doing nothing to improve.

--This has been another blunt force honesty broadcast from Antoine. =]

Ilie Pandia
21st October 2011, 23:09
Anno, while your post is full of "blunt force honesty" I does not seem fair, to me, for you to be the judge of what a human being should or should not do, to have an impact or a far reaching message.

I stay away from defining "a rule set it stone" that you should do this, or should not do that. As I said, even moving to Vilcabamba is a matter of context! And only you can know deep inside, where you cannot lie to yourself, the reasons you have for your move. And if you are happy with that reason, if that reason serves you... then fine :)

I for one doubt I could be teaching kids. I don't have the patience and the skills for it. But that does not mean I cannot help in other ways... And also, I have moved from a neighborhood that I did not feel was appropriate for me. And is much better where I live now. Perhaps one day, when my thoughts will be more clear, I'll be able to see the beauty of that place and return there. But it is not the time for me yet :)

So again, I did not want to pass any judgment, just to raise awareness of inner processes and possibly offer ideas for solutions to those that are able to implement them.

Bill Ryan
22nd October 2011, 13:46
-------

Anno, I entirely support your strong sentiment that you should stay at home and never come to Vilcabamba.

:)

By the way, I have (back in the 1980s) done a substantial amount of youth work with deprived and disadvantaged teenagers. I also consider myself a citizen of Planet Earth -- not of any particular country -- and I have no family or other community that I am part of. Creating a family and community for myself, anywhere and in any way that I choose, is my right as a human being. Thanks for understanding that.

Christine
22nd October 2011, 13:55
The garden we need to attend is the inner garden. One of the most valuable lessons I have learned is to tend my garden and leave others to tend theirs. Much love to all.

La Tigra

NeverMind
22nd October 2011, 16:47
You, who want to relocated to villages like that should be very very careful on how you behave and with the consequences.

There are several recurrent problems that insist to happen in this kind of situation:


Great post, RMorgan.
However, according to Wikipedia (I know, not the most reliable source...) and this article (http://www.aarpinternational.org/news/news_show.htm?doc_id=584699) it is already happening.
Notice that the article is from 2007. I can't help but wonder, what is the situation now?


Actually, like trojan, i wonder how pple are making their living in Vilcabamba?

I second - no, third :) - the question.
I have no intention of moving there, or anywhere for the foreseeable future, but the journo in me would like to know. :-)
It does seem to be an interesting place.

Kumonitori
22nd October 2011, 17:25
How is the quality of drinking water at the altitude (1400-2000 meters) where Vilcabamba is situated? As I'm thinking the water source might directly be from the mountain springs of the Andean highlands. Still, are there worries about Malaria and other waterborne pathogens?

Carmody
22nd October 2011, 19:21
How is the quality of drinking water at the altitude (1400-2000 meters) where Vilcabamba is situated? As I'm thinking the water source might directly be from the mountain springs of the Andean highlands. Still, are there worries about Malaria and other waterborne pathogens?

MMS is a wonderful thing.

Thanks, Jim.

Kumonitori
22nd October 2011, 19:57
Hi Carmody,

Ideally, I'm thinking that it would be nice to be able to drink the water straight from the flowing crystal clear rivers of the Andean highlands, without the use of MMS.

I have done my share of experiments with MMS with parasite issues for my Tropical fish (aquarium), but with little success.
So, I'm curious to know if it really works at getting rid of the "bad" critters -- as many internal parasite found in the fish seemed to be unharmed by the dose of MMS in my small fish tank. BTW, though I'm not sure if Planaria (commonly found in the water) is aerobic or anaerobic, MMS has absolutely no effect on it whatsoever.

Bill Ryan
23rd October 2011, 17:33
How is the quality of drinking water at the altitude (1400-2000 meters) where Vilcabamba is situated? As I'm thinking the water source might directly be from the mountain springs of the Andean highlands. Still, are there worries about Malaria and other waterborne pathogens?

I've never seen a mosquito here (I imagine it's too high for them): there's definitely no malaria.

The water at the Madre Tierra hotel is routinely filtered with a Berkey filter, but many Vilcabamba visitors drink the water directly out of the tap wherever they are and never have any problem. Many properties have their own well or spring -- as does Madre Tierra -- but the municipal water (in the town) is chlorinated.

nomadguy
24th October 2011, 00:12
Vilcabamba looks to be a fabulous place to try permaculture or food foresting.
It is mountainous and the name of the valley in Vilcabamba(Valley of Longevity), sounds to be a good indicator of old antiquated farming.
I am very interested to hear about any local, old style farming techniques if it comes up.
Bill do you know how cold the winter is there?

Cheers
C...

ahamkara
24th October 2011, 00:55
Beneath the emotions, many important points are being addressed here in this thread. Thank you all. As the situation in Europe and North America changes, shifts, and possbily worsens, many of those with the opportunity and the inclination will migrate. People have moved across the surface of the Earth from our very beginnings. While some move to find a place vibrationally in harmony with what they are (or are becoming), others choose to shift their vibration and correspondingly, the vibrations of those around them. One choice is not more virtuous than the other!

That said, we have an impact, WHEREVER we are. Being mindful and respectful of that impact is the real discussion, in my own opinion. Peace and balance to all those seekers. Namaste.

Carmody
24th October 2011, 01:38
Ecuador is named after the equator. 6am sunrise, 6pm sunset, with little variation.

~~~~~~~~~

From wiki:

The climate of Ecuador varies by region, due to differences in altitude and proximity to the equator.[1]

The coastal lowlands to the west of Ecuador are typically warm with temperatures in the region of 25 °C (77 °F).[2] Coastal areas are affected by ocean currents and between January and April are hot and rainy.[3]

The weather in Quito is consistent to that of a subtropical highland climate. The city has a fairly constant cool climate due to its elevation and proximity to the equator. The average temperature during the day is 66 °F (18.9 °C), which generally falls to an average of 50 °F (10 °C) at night. The average temperature annually is 64 °F (17.8 °C) There are only really two obvious seasons in the city: dry and wet. The dry season (summer) runs from June to September and the wet season (winter) is from October to May.

grannyfranny100
2nd November 2011, 13:49
I keep checking this thread to see if Bill has posted any updates. Hope all is going well with this relocation. No doubt Bill could provide valuable insights and hope he does soon.

Bill Ryan
2nd November 2011, 14:13
I keep checking this thread to see if Bill has posted any updates. Hope all is going well with this relocation. No doubt Bill could provide valuable insights and hope he does soon.

Hi there - do you mean insights on Vilcabamba? Or on other matters? I've been posting quite regularly on a number of issues which I think may be quite important at the moment... do click every day on the posts link (to the left of this, just underneath my Avatar) for updates.


http://projectavalon.net/Bill_Ryan_posts_screenshot_sm.gif
Re Vilcabamba, I'm in a sort of contemplative retreat at the moment, in very good shape personally and in the middle of a deeply cleansing body detox program. (We can't risk underestimating the importance of taking care of our body-vehicles as we careen down the highway. The fruit and vegetables are fresh, alive and packed with nourishment, and I'm finding myself eating just one and a half meals a day without feeling hungry.)

I have no deadlines to do or deliver anything at the moment, and so I'm kind of watching things play out... with some degree of amazement. The alternative community has gone a little crazy this year (not a very encouraging sign), and I'm in deep thought about what I can or should do next. There are very few people out there at the moment whose information and insights can be said to be reliable. I'm acutely aware of my responsibility, and my potential role.

I'm staying as a long-term guest at Madre Tierra (Vilcabamba's most friendly hotel :) ), and am greatly enjoying and appreciating it here. Living in Vilcabamba is not immune to challenges -- a package containing a laptop I'd left behind in Miami took 26 days to reach me by FedEx (and there are many longer-term and deeper issues concerning impact and sustainability, discussed highly intelligently earlier in this thread) -- but the benefits, advantages and opportunities here greatly outweigh any anomalies, irritations or problems.

All best wishes, Bill

Tony
2nd November 2011, 14:26
Hello Bill,
Kathie and I are in quandary about coming out, we will make a decision in the next few days.
Are there many Europeans there? I'm still waiting for some feed back about the community there.

All the best,
Tony

Bill Ryan
2nd November 2011, 14:42
Hello Bill,
Kathie and I are in quandary about coming out, we will make a decision in the next few days.
Are there many Europeans there? I'm still waiting for some feed back about the community there.

All the best,
Tony

Hi there, Tony -- do you mean Europeans as opposed to Americans and Canadians? Yes, there are quite a few. :)

No-one really knows for sure the number of foreigners here: educated estimates guess at around 1,000, or maybe more. Some have been here for quite a number of years, but many have arrived in the last 18 months or so. There's no shortage of high-quality, very friendly and aware people with interesting journeys and stories to share.

With my best wishes, Bill

Lochinvar
2nd November 2011, 15:20
What concerns, if any, do the local people have about the influx of new arrivals? (I never got the chance to ask when I was there ).

onawah
8th November 2011, 14:43
I have no wish to be an alarmist, but the following came in my email today from Credo Action (part of Working Assets), which, if you are not familiar with it, is an alternatively oriented US non profit, so I think it must be accurate info they are disseminating (though I hope it's NOT true).
Since I thought the government in Ecuador was quite liberal, I was very shocked.
I figured anyone who is thinking of moving to Vilcabamba or already living there who is not aware of this, would want to know.
Apologies for the unpleasantness.


Stop human rights abuses in Ecuador.

It's shocking that this is happening in 2011: At 207 "clinics" across Ecuador, lesbians are held captive, raped, tortured, starved and beaten in an attempt to make them straight.1

But far from being clandestine, this systematic brutalization of women happens in plain sight, with the tacit approval of the government of Ecuador.

Speak out to stop this unconscionable treatment of innocent women.

We know that the Ecuadoran government is sensitive to international public pressure — they already shut down a small handful of clinics in response to public outrage when the international press first learned of the existence of these clinics.

But we have to keep the pressure on the Ecuadoran government until they close every single clinic that continues to facilitate the torture and rape of women.

Tell Ecuadoran Minister of Public Health Dr. David Chiriboga that the torture and rape of lesbians cannot continue. Demand that he investigate and shut down all remaining 207 ex-lesbian "clinics." Click here to automatically sign the petition.
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/ecuador_torture/

Paola Ziritti was one of the many women who were placed in one of the ex-lesbian programs. After learning Paola was raped and starved, her mother attempted to remove her from the program — but Paola's "doctors" wouldn't release her for over a year following her mother's appeal to bring her home.

The barbaric practice of holding women against their will and torturing them because of their sexual orientation has to stop. Put simply, there is no moral or medical justification for clinics that employ horrendous tactics in order to "cure" these women and turn them "back to normal."

The Ecuadoran Minister of Public Health has the ability to investigate and shut down the remaining 207 clinics.

He needs to know that the eyes of the international community are on Ecuador, and that we won't stop pressuring him until he has shut every one of the remaining clinics.

Tell Ecuadoran Minister of Public Health Dr. David Chiriboga that the torture and rape of lesbians cannot continue. Demand that he investigate and shut down all remaining 207 ex-lesbian "clinics." Click here to automatically sign the petition.

Thank you for speaking out against the human rights abuses in Ecuador.

Ali Rozell, Campaign Manager
CREDO Action from Working Assets

1. Survivors of many of these clinics all report the same "treatment program" that includes rape, starvation, and handcuffing.
"Lesbians Escape From Ecuador's 'Ex-Gay' Torture Centers," The Advocate, 10-7-2011.

Carmody
8th November 2011, 15:26
I'm in a sort of contemplative retreat at the moment, in very good shape personally and in the middle of a deeply cleansing body detox program. (We can't risk underestimating the importance of taking care of our body-vehicles as we careen down the highway.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-rst/6522.html

"Five decades ago, scientists discovered that cells undergo a limited number of divisions before they stop dividing. At that point the cells reach a state of limbo — called cellular senescence — where they neither die nor continue to multiply. They produce factors that damage adjacent cells and cause tissue inflammation. This alternative cell fate is believed to be a mechanism to prevent runaway cell growth and the spread of cancer. The immune system sweeps out these dysfunctional cells on a regular basis, but over time becomes less effective at "keeping house."

(semi-official admittance of the deep value of detox)

Jill
8th November 2011, 15:31
I'm in a sort of contemplative retreat at the moment, in very good shape personally and in the middle of a deeply cleansing body detox program. (We can't risk underestimating the importance of taking care of our body-vehicles as we careen down the highway.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-rst/6522.html

"Five decades ago, scientists discovered that cells undergo a limited number of divisions before they stop dividing. At that point the cells reach a state of limbo — called cellular senescence — where they neither die nor continue to multiply. They produce factors that damage adjacent cells and cause tissue inflammation. This alternative cell fate is believed to be a mechanism to prevent runaway cell growth and the spread of cancer. The immune system sweeps out these dysfunctional cells on a regular basis, but over time becomes less effective at "keeping house."

(semi-official admittance of the deep value of detox)

Wonder if this involves black grapes, senna leaves and liquid tobacco.

Bill Ryan
8th December 2011, 14:41
-------

Dear Friends, this is well worth reading:

http://mundusinc.com/Vilca-Guide-2.html

http://www.mundusinc.com/Sacred-Space3.jpg

Carmody
8th December 2011, 15:02
The interesting part, Bill.. is that there are apparently 'two' valleys or areas of the same name and of the same apparent creed. It makes one wonder.

In the world of the modern, the 'theft of one's thunder' is not unusual, as is the corruption of religion, and whatnot, so this comes as no surprise to me....if that turns out to be the case here, again.

mab777
8th December 2011, 15:03
beautiful place ... thank´s Bill

Bill Ryan
8th December 2011, 16:32
The interesting part, Bill.. is that there are apparently 'two' valleys or areas of the same name and of the same apparent creed. It makes one wonder.

In the world of the modern, the 'theft of one's thunder' is not unusual, as is the corruption of religion, and whatnot, so this comes as no surprise to me....if that turns out to be the case here, again.

'Vilca bamba' simply means sacred valley. There are probably several of those! :)

Tarka the Duck
8th December 2011, 16:40
This is an email we received today from an estate agent (sorry, realtor!) in Vilcabamba, which is interesting...

Hello everybody,

This is a short sharp announcement to make everyone aware of one thing – the Ecuadorian Government has (almost overnight) implemented a tax increase from 2% to 5% (that’s a 250% increase!) on the exit tax (salida de divisas) on funds leaving Ecuador for a foreign bank account.

Yes folks, you read that right.

The 2% government tax on sending money from an Ecuadorian bank account overseas has just become 5%

Some background:
When introduced, this tax was originally half a percent, then doubled to 1%, then doubled to 2% (earlier this year), and has now increased by two and a half times (250%) to 5%. So the tax is now ten times what it originally was. I am not going to bore you with my opinion of these primitive and debilitating types of capital controls – suffice to say they stifle investment into the country and generally make ex-pats nervous about what else the government might have up its sleeve. But there it is. If you want to send money OUT of Ecuador to any foreign bank account, you will lose 5%.

Ramifications:
· This obviously applies to VREC’s company bank account – SO – it means that there is an implication for both buyers and sellers (only some of which I will cover in this email). The immediate effect is that sellers of land here will price this in to their property’s ‘acceptance price’ – that is to say a property which would have settled at $100,000 yesterday, will settle at $105,000 today.
· It has already affected the prices of imported goods here, which have already gone up by an additional 3% (because buyers paying overseas parties for these goods are now having to absorb the impact of this tax increase – and are in turn passing it on to their customers).
· The other obvious ramification is that you should only really transfer to Ecuador the amount of money you know you are definitely going to spend ‘in country’ (unless of course you don’t care about losing the 5% when you decide to send it out of Ecuador).
· When this tax was 1%, and even 2%, most of our clients more or less thought – ‘It’s not that big a deal ... price of doing business in Ecuador’. But at 5%, it has suddenly become a very big deal, and one we have to inform everyone of, as well as work with each deal individually to try to ensure the best result for all parties.

Phoenix1304
27th June 2012, 18:42
Greetings La Tigra, Bill and All

I share the concerns already expressed regarding ‘occupying’ the lands of others to their detriment and was interested to come across these people that express some of my own views on the subject:

http://propertiesinecuador.com/piscohuasieng.htm

I’ve wondered if you’ve connected with them. I imagine the expat community to be a bit of a small world...

Yup, I’m one of those that feels in every fibre of my being, a need to be ‘south of the border’. I’ve been investigating potential eco-communities/villages for several years and Mexico and on the borders of Belize is the closest I’ve got to finding the right place, Vilcabamba has been on my radar since I was pointed in the direction of the Ecuadorian Andes by Roxanne Meadows at the Venus Project some years ago. It would be so sweet if Jacques could get the funding to build his dream in the region! Part of me feels ‘darn, the secret’s out’ and Bill’s high profile will surely bring even more people that way. Hopefully, that would be the right kind of people and the wrong people won't stick around.

As Latin America grows it must learn from the mistakes of the west and develop sustainably. Immigrant ‘lightworkers’ are likely to be most helpful toward that end. Indeed, I’m aware of at least two in the vicinity that are already busy with their own reforestation programs, instead of waiting for the suits in Rio+ to decide on their next jolly. Pardon my cynicism.

To those that criticise others for moving South and think we should stay put where we are, I can only say I now have Buckminster Fuller’s words emblazoned on my heart ‘“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete". Speaking as one who hung banners on toxic wastepipes with Greenpeace over 30 years ago and fought against all the downsides of our modern world for decades, I’ve realised fighting is futile, and while I have great faith in people power, they have to be awake don't they? I've seen minor victories with the whales, tuna fishing practices and the like but when it comes to other fundamentals in the system, like energy, I see more and more, put up their own solar panels, and fail to notice the system's corporates ensuring their total control by having that power put back into their own grid. I do believe the way to change it is to be the change, but easier said than done in UK, it might wear a silk glove, but the iron first of government is insidious. Cash cows is a very apt description of the great majority of us. I hold the hope and vision that in a freer, developing country there’s a better chance to live a saner, healthier lifestyle. Not to mention that the equator is, without doubt, the best bit of the planet to be on as far as I'm concerned and I would feel privileged to be able to make a home there.

Also wanted to share this link regarding the criticism of Correa for corruption, you will note in this article it states that he won two court cases for libel by journalists. One being the defamation regarding his brother. I don’t know what to say about the terror clinics, that lonely petition is all there seems to be about it. Don’t forget the US Gov want him out and maybe even to stem the steady flow of people from US in that direction. Oliver Stone's 'South of the Border' is a real eye-opener, btw, for those that haven't seen it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18518464

Thanks for the offer to field questions, because I have loads as I’m now in the throes of putting my flat on the market and following this ‘urge’ as it gets more intense by the year, month and now, the day. This pull is palpable and I'm tired, actually, of fighting that as well so I'm going with it, finally.

First question about visas, it states on the embassy website that any kind of visa other than tourist visa must be obtained in country of origin. Would that mean having to fly back to UK again, if and when, one made the decision to stay? Can't be, can it?

Just a little wobbly because I can't do this any way but by liquidation and it would be so much easier if I didn't have to! But the incredible synchronicities and confirmations continue, not least finding the assange/correa interview posted on my FB page the morning after I made the decision. The most refreshing political interview I've seen in decades. It encouraged me enormously. I don’t know if it’s been posted elsewhere, so I’ll put it here for good measure.

p-45qm3dadY

Thanks so much for this thread, La Tig I could well be visiting you at your little piece of paradise in the not too distant.

Blessings one and all.

Helen

ulli
27th June 2012, 19:11
This is an email we received today from an estate agent (sorry, realtor!) in Vilcabamba, which is interesting...

Hello everybody,

This is a short sharp announcement to make everyone aware of one thing – the Ecuadorian Government has (almost overnight) implemented a tax increase from 2% to 5% (that’s a 250% increase!) on the exit tax (salida de divisas) on funds leaving Ecuador for a foreign bank account.

Yes folks, you read that right.

The 2% government tax on sending money from an Ecuadorian bank account overseas has just become 5%

Some background:
When introduced, this tax was originally half a percent, then doubled to 1%, then doubled to 2% (earlier this year), and has now increased by two and a half times (250%) to 5%. So the tax is now ten times what it originally was. I am not going to bore you with my opinion of these primitive and debilitating types of capital controls – suffice to say they stifle investment into the country and generally make ex-pats nervous about what else the government might have up its sleeve. But there it is. If you want to send money OUT of Ecuador to any foreign bank account, you will lose 5%.

Ramifications:
· This obviously applies to VREC’s company bank account – SO – it means that there is an implication for both buyers and sellers (only some of which I will cover in this email). The immediate effect is that sellers of land here will price this in to their property’s ‘acceptance price’ – that is to say a property which would have settled at $100,000 yesterday, will settle at $105,000 today.
· It has already affected the prices of imported goods here, which have already gone up by an additional 3% (because buyers paying overseas parties for these goods are now having to absorb the impact of this tax increase – and are in turn passing it on to their customers).
· The other obvious ramification is that you should only really transfer to Ecuador the amount of money you know you are definitely going to spend ‘in country’ (unless of course you don’t care about losing the 5% when you decide to send it out of Ecuador).
· When this tax was 1%, and even 2%, most of our clients more or less thought – ‘It’s not that big a deal ... price of doing business in Ecuador’. But at 5%, it has suddenly become a very big deal, and one we have to inform everyone of, as well as work with each deal individually to try to ensure the best result for all parties.

The only answer is to rent instead of buy. That Correa government has become known for it's unpredictability. The other thing is to take out $9,999 in cash each time one leaves the country, if headed or the US. There is always the suspicion that one's gains come from cocaine in South America.
What happened in Barbados was even worse, where one could only take out $5000 per year, unless one can apply directly through the Central Bank for a larger sum. Only businesses bother with that process, it is so laborious. not sure if there is an additional tax. When I sold my house in Barbados I could not take US dollars out for years. Very frustrating, it was.
While individuals are efforting to become more community conscious and seek a consensus, government leaders are going overboard in their self protective
attitudes, to please voters. Unless they are so corrupt that any deal they make is only designed to line their own pockets.

Star Tsar
27th June 2012, 19:12
I feel that stuck on this rock there is no safe place to hide fom a global disaster really.
Even the beautiful Ecuador is prone to flooding!
Sorry for being a bit negative but this needs to be considered in my opinion...

:ohwell:

Tony
27th June 2012, 19:50
I got an email from an estate agent in Vilcabamba, saying that many Ecuadorians left Ecuador when it was poor, to go the Spain. Now Spain is in trouble, they are going back to Ecuador......? Gringos watch out!

Ba-ba-Ra
27th June 2012, 21:38
Someday, I hope in my time, there will be no countries, no borders - all unity and brotherhood. My brother claims I'm an unrealistic idealist - perhaps I am, but I will continue to hold an energetic packet for that possibility.

In the meantime I live very nicely in the world as it is with little income. So many lovely places on this planet - I hope to see as many of them as I caand Ecuador is definitely on my list - and if one choses to live there, wouldn't it be lovely if they could, no matter where they were born.

Christine
29th June 2012, 00:41
Hello Helen,

I just read your post and thank you for your comments and questions.

Ecuador is not perfect, it presents challenges of a different nature than we experience in the "developed" world. To start Ecuador is overburdened by a ineffective bureaucracy and ever changing rules. The growing middle class population has fallen into the track of "high fashion" and new toys. The less economically blessed that live in the cities are being fed a diet of highly processed foods, government mandated fluoride in the salt (water is not centralized so fluoride in the water supply would be difficult to implement). Vaccine campaigns are in full swing and the populace is under the illusion of modern progress, ala 50's USA. And GMO's are creeping into the farm system. Recently Correa's government made a law allowing them!

Okay - had to get that said.

Ecuador is not paradise even though it is physically beautiful, fertile and has near perfect weather. And yes it is all that, the milk we drink is delivered to our door by a local woman who tends her own grass fed cows. We can get organic produce, so much less expensive than the developed world. You can feel that life still vibrates in the food. However there are no regulations on labeling so you may not really know for sure. Then again it makes a person do their own homework and get to know the local population. Things are not as easy to find, again this can be a blessing as we have been lulled into the ease in which our needs are satisfied. Makes us a bit sleepy.

If you were to ask me I would certainly state that there is corruption in the government, where in government isn’t there? To what extent it is Correa or his ministers acting on their own interests I couldn’t say. The political game is just that -- a game, and Correa must be walking a tight rope most of the time. The people of Ecuador support him and are hopeful for continued change as the power is being wrested from the familial economic elite.

There is a lot of wealth in Ecuador, the Chinese influence is very visible. Quito and Cuenca are bustling cities and poverty is hardly visible. Guayaquil is a large commercial port city that is growing exponentially. The "standard of living" (I dislike that term as it is used) is not what the western world is accustomed to but people have homes, a vehicle or good mass transportation and an abundance of food.

Vilcabamba continues to be a hub of the alternative ex-pat community and there are so many interesting and accomplished people living there that it sparks with energy. It has some drawbacks, as a matter of fact I am no longer living there. This came about as a natural evolution for myself. I seem to have launched my raft on a moving river. However I am back in Ecuador after re-exploring the Northwestern US.

My plans are to continue to explore Ecuador and hopefully some neighboring countries as well. So I will be happy to report on my findings and supply useful information about visas, government regulations, transportation, etc. I speak fluent Spanish and am acquiring as much reliable information as I can. I have also connected with a very competent young woman lawyer and other Ecuadorian professionals. As any where it helps to know who you can count on.

To answer your question about Visas - this is not true about applying in the country of residence. You will be given a 90 day Tourist Visa (12-X) which you can extend one time only for another 6 months. This can be done in Cuenca, Quito or Guayaquil at the Ministerio de Extranjeria.

You can also apply for a residence visa if you meet any of the following requirements.

1. You must have at least 30 days left on your current visa to apply.
2. You can apply under the following categories:
a. Investment, either a $25,000 CD which must not be touched for two years. Or purchase of property with the same minimum value. If you have a family member coming in as a dependent you need to invest another $500 per person.
b. Professional visa - have a valid diploma from an accredited university. Ecuador recognizes most major universities. I can obtain the list if you are interested. No financial obligations are needed with this visa.
c. Retirement visa - currently you need to show that you have retirement income of $800 per month. (Rumors are that they are going to raise this to $1,000). It can be private pension or government. The ministry prefers government.
d. Dependent Visa - if your spouse meets the requirements you can be included as a dependent. As a matter of fact the family dependency is extended to children and I was even told to nephews and nieces.

There are also Visas for students and ministries...

Important documents to bring if you are thinking of applying for residency right away:

1. Police report from place of last residency or greatest residency. This need to be properly Apostilled (State Notary Stamped)
2. Marriage Certificate if married, again Apostilled.
3. Children's birth certificates, again Apostilled.
4. If applying for Retirement Visa, you will need a certified letter from whatever agency you receive your pension from.
5. Bank account information - recent statements and a letter of good standing from your bank.

I hope this answers some of your questions. You are more than welcome to send me a PM or post openly.... I know that there are other folk interested so maybe open posting would be the most helpful.

My added caveat here is that the regulations and even whole ministries change all the time... though I think most of this information is correct at the time of writing.

I send you return blessings.

Warmest regards to all,

La Tigra :llama:

Christine
29th June 2012, 01:46
I got an email from an estate agent in Vilcabamba, saying that many Ecuadorians left Ecuador when it was poor, to go the Spain. Now Spain is in trouble, they are going back to Ecuador......? Gringos watch out!

Hi Tony - Yes this is very true, many Ecuadorian's left to find work in Spain and are now returning.

In an effort to bring balance, I would like to report what I learned during my long conversations with many Ecuadorians of different backgrounds. This exodus became part of a larger problem. As is the case it was mostly the young men who went to Spain, leaving their wives or elderly parents to tend to the tracks of land that had been in the family for generations. As the wives and parents couldn't keep up with the work they needed to sell their heritage and move into the towns and villages.

In areas like Vilcabamba it was the wealthy Lojanos (nearest city to Vilca) that first purchased these properties for weekend villas. Once the ex-pats started arriving in greater numbers they have taken most of the heat for the rise in property prices. While some, maybe quite a few, locals resent this "invasion" there are many locals who welcome the "gringos".

In the larger city of Cuenca there is a large international population of ex-pats but because of the greater population they are easily integrated and accepted. Indeed as Cuenca grows and prices rise it isn't pinned on the foreign community but on the influx of wealthy Ecuadorians.

I don't quite understand the gist of "Gringos watch out!". There are many aware people in Vilcabamba working toward co-operation and communication. Better than most places...

Saludos cordiales amigo. :)

La Tigra

Rich
14th February 2013, 18:17
Didn't read the posts yet, just want to share a link to my parents website I'm sure they would enjoy a visit if you come to Vilcabamba:
http://www.fincalahermosa.com/index.html

AlaBil
14th February 2013, 20:28
Wow! What a place. Had no idea. Just another thread that leads me into research in this area. Thanks to all here for threads like this one.