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truthseekerdan
16th June 2010, 03:56
Most religions preach love, and yet, their purpose is to confuse and misinform people for two reasons: money and the power of manipulating people. Their tool is frequently fear, which they induce to get control. For example, the Catholic Church removed reincarnation from the Bible and included Satan, so they could murder and torture people in the name of God and love, apparently 'fighting' Satan. Most wars are a direct consequence of religious 'brainwashing'.

All religions, cults, sects etc. are 'truly deceiving'. They have been created after great men (Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc.) died, by people with only 2 things in mind: 'money and power'. Religions are a 'true curse' on Earth, because they are the source of spiritual misinformation. They constipate people with fear, propaganda and rituals to the point that people stop thinking and follow the flock.

When you seek true love you do not go to a prostitute. When you truly seek God, you do not go to an institution that makes business by claiming to represent God. Do you think that God needs a proxy?
The most beautiful temple of man is within and has always been. To reach it you should meditate, and then concentrate (pray), which is different, although the two are usually confused by teachers. We should grow up, drop ridiculous rituals and stop following the flock, lead by those who take advantage of us.

The best physicists on Earth agree that everything material is just vibration, and it is actually temporary. The real stuff is our consciousness. People need a lot of effort to comprehend the Reality of the Universe. The evidence is overwhelming. We have eyes - but do we see?
There is no problem with duality: we are really eternal light beings undergoing lessons in physical bodies. The sole purpose of our physical existence is spiritual development. Anything that happens around us is a part of the lesson.

Our learning tool is our free will. We should use it to make a continuous series of choices in our life and watch their consequences. The aim is to understand the effects of our choices. If we mess up the lesson (don't learn) then we have to repeat the lesson in the next lifetime. If we are absolutely stubborn and do not want to learn, we eventually get destroyed and re-cycled as everything in nature.

"The Kingdom of God is within you" as it says in the Bible, which once upon a time contained lots of other good information. Unfortunately, many essential things were removed by priests who feared that people might become enlightened, fully independent and impossible to brainwash and control. Just imagine what would happen if people discovered that God doesn't need a proxy...

Kra
16th June 2010, 04:47
I entirely agree with what you said about religions. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality.

greybeard
16th June 2010, 05:05
In essence
Religion divides Spirituality unites.

Chris

Elandiel BernElve
17th June 2010, 10:12
There is a lot of truth in what you say. But I wouldn't put it in a black vs white contrast kind of way.

Religion is a gray area.. it offers just enough spirituality to feel that there's something more and then constrains your curiousity by moral and religious teachings making you a follower instead of a contributor to advancement and enlightment in spirituality.

Look at christianity for example, most christians are way lost in their own dogma's and self written interpretations of history and the world, they fail to accept ANYthing is possible. They fail to see God (whatever he or that might be for any of you) as an infinite powerful source of life ans conscious. They actually don't give God (I'll call it just God for now) enough credit. Constantly measuring him down to humanlike behaviour or reason. If there's truly one allmighty God of all then why would he just focus on this tiny planet and especcially some Jews in Israel a few thousand years ago..
Indeed what a misinformation... and that keeps going on and on

YET, don't underestimate the cultural and historical influence it had and NEEDED to have to become who we are.
The renaissance, the enlightment, humanism.. all these things are a reaction on a historical series of (religious) events that we can call the development of our (western) civilization.
Of course it saddens me that we as a civilization always have to fall down (inquisition for example) before we get higher up the echelon of civilized behaviour (humanism for example).
I wish we could grow without falling..
Yes religion is misinformation, yes religion is the source of lots of dead, corruption, stagnation, yes religion is a cause of war and spiritual decay..

a religion is an institute, an institute ruled by man is doomed to corruption

yet.. don't blame the believers.. for example christians believe in love and forgiveness, a serene ideal it's their institute that has blinded them and therefore they'll never reach their potential.

So Lightwarriors, don't focus on bashing religion but plant your seeds of consciousness, break their chains and do as Jesus, open their eyes and make them SEE again

Anchor
17th June 2010, 10:27
Spirituality is a quality that can be described and quantified (to some extent, this depends on belief systems), whereas Religion is more about process.

Sadly many of Religions processes are variously related to division, inculcation of beliefs, fear, guilt, freewill violation and siphoning money from the pockets of the base tiers of their flock's.

John..

Steven
17th June 2010, 12:02
I agree with many things said here. I see religion and spirituality as two distinct concepts.

The word religion comes from 'religare' or 'to bind' 'to bow'. In reference to the worship of humans to a 'god' or 'gods'. Involving ritual and devotion to certain 'figure' of devotion to the 'god' or 'gods'. Often containing moral code and rules to conduct the humain life.

While spirituality is a direct reference to the spirit or soul that inhabit the body or 'overlap' it. Spirit means 'breath', the spark of life that animates the visibile body and the same spark of life that survive 'death'. Spirit or consciousness that think and feel, just like the Great spirit. Spirituality is all that involves our connection to the Source.

We do not need religion and it will most certainly vanished. Religion is a tool. While spirituality will always exist...

Namaste, Steven

RedeZra
17th June 2010, 23:20
religion is together we are in God

spirituality is alone I am in God


what is spirituality for the soul is religion for the community

not observing moral codes is neither religion nor spirituality but rebellion


religion means to bind mankind back to God

spirituality means to bind oneself to God


not observing God is neither religion nor spirituality but rebellion


the Great spirit is God

Anchor
17th June 2010, 23:24
Redezra, I think I agree with the intent that you have behind the meaning

I am quite happy to share spirituality within like minded groups, but that is not ever going to be religion.

I find the word, ideas and association of religion is so tainted by the systematic abuse of freewill that I find the idea of it repulsive and reject it completely.

John..

RedeZra
17th June 2010, 23:58
I am quite happy to share spirituality within like minded groups, but that is not ever going to be religion.


hi John

that's okay

spirituality is a step to spirit as is religion


both fields are full of snares

so extreme discernment is never wrong

Lost Soul
18th June 2010, 00:54
Spirituality > Religion.

Steven
18th June 2010, 01:05
Never to be forgotten that spirituality never committed that much wars and control over humanity and that is the spiritual part of any religion that realized the best things in all of them. Religion can not exist without spirituality, but spirituality does not need religion to exist. Religion will pass, spirituality is eternal...

Namaste, Steven

truthseekerdan
18th June 2010, 04:17
God The Great Spirit unites in Love and from within, but religion divides; God does not need religion...:wub:

Namaste,

Dan

RedeZra
18th June 2010, 05:38
give it time

and a spiritual seed turns into a religious branch

Elandiel BernElve
18th June 2010, 12:26
@ RedeZra,

Religion (from Latin religio, "reverence for the gods", "piety", possibly related to religare, "to bind"[1]) is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or more in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

vs

Spirituality is the acknowlegdement of us being spiritual in essence and having limitless potential while seeing and experiencing the world and all that is living and conscious as a whole.
That is not a belief, not a religion, it's a state of being and concsiousness.

When we as a human civilization ascend to the point we all know and acknowledge we are spiritual we'll feel the universal laws and ethics from within our hearts.
A religion to state those, would be like a voice in your car constantly saying that you're driving while you're driving.. in other words useless

greybeard
18th June 2010, 13:07
Spirituality is God imminent, accessible, the realm of the Mystic.
Religion is to do with God transcendent --- out there far removed, in heaven, just waiting for judgment day.. Religion has to do with the after life.
Spirituality the eternal Now.
There are crossover points for the core of religion comes from the mystic.
Chris

truthseekerdan
18th June 2010, 15:28
Great description Elandiel, thank you for your participation. :thumb:

Great quote below from a book, that you and/or others might be already familiar with. :)


The Spirit - the Superior Intelligence decided to create the worlds and He commanded to four superior forces...

It’s extremely difficult for the human mind, even when highly developed, to comprehend such a thing. In fact, in a sense, it is impossible. On the other hand, your Astral Spirit assimilates it when it is freed from your physical body.

In the beginning there was nothing except darkness and a spirit - THE Spirit.

The Spirit was, and is, infinitely powerful - powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind. The Spirit is so powerful that it was able, by the action of its will alone, to trigger an atomic explosion with chain reactions of unimaginable force. In fact, the Spirit imagined the worlds - He imagined how to create them - from the most enormous to the most minuscule. He imagined the atoms. When He imagined them He created, in His imagination, all that moved and will move: all that lived and will live; all that is motionless, or seems to be - every single thing.

But it existed only in his imagination. All was still in darkness. Once He had an overall view of what He wanted to create, He was able, by his exceptional spiritual force, to create, instantaneously, the four forces of the Universe.

With these, He directed the first and the most gigantic atomic explosion of all time - what certain people on Earth call ‘The Big Bang’. The Spirit was at its centre and induced it. Darkness was gone and the Universe was creating itself according to the will of the Spirit.

The Spirit was thus, is still, and always will be, at the centre of the Universe for He is the Master and Creator of it...

Excerpt from Thiaooba Prophecy by Michel Desmarquet (http://www.thiaoouba.com/mic.htm)

http://www.thiaoouba.com/newcovl.jpg
Read the book online here (http://www.galactic.no/rune/thaoeng.html) or as an eBook here (http://www.archive.org/stream/ThiaooubaProphecyEbook/ThiaooubaProphecy#page/n0/mode/2up)

RedeZra
18th June 2010, 16:27
When we as a human civilization ascend to the point we all know and acknowledge we are spiritual we'll feel the universal laws and ethics from within our hearts.



yes if we all were spiritual

there would be no need for religion

as it is

this is not so

not even close

so religion plays the part

to convert the rebels

Steven
18th June 2010, 16:45
We are not human beings who have spiritual experiences, but spiritual beings who live a human experience. We are spiritual, all of us, in essence. That is why religions have arose in our manifested reality. But as all human affairs, have been corrupted over the years to control the mass by a small hidden Elite who wants us to recognize their god as ours. A fallen creature with great power. Unfortunately, many powerful spreadout religions are simply participating in redirecting our spirit's focus from the Source of all that is, to this god. Nevertheless, their is also powerful spiritual beings in all religions who maintain a constant blessings in them. Religions aren't completely corrupted, and that is why their is much hope including in this field.

Namaste, Steven

RedeZra
18th June 2010, 17:32
But as all human affairs, have been corrupted over the years to control the mass by a small hidden Elite who wants us to recognize their god as ours.


if there were no sinister spiritual forces around

mankind would naturally seek balance beauty and harmony

truthseekerdan
19th June 2010, 14:12
Did anyone read the book in post # 16? Let me know your opinions, please. :)

"A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

- Albert Einstein

truthseekerdan
27th June 2010, 04:42
:bump2: :bump: :love:

truthseekerdan
27th September 2010, 01:23
Spirituality vs. Religion = Knowing vs. Faith


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiTbcDeFuhI


:love:

Mu2143
27th September 2010, 05:12
Religion=Government = Control of the Mind or Mind control/half truth mixed with lies you going to co-create your true-lie which you belief in
(Information programmed in from the outside to the inside of your spirit/mind)

Spirituality =truth/reality/what is real/knowing
(From the inside you check if the outside information is real)

shadowstalker
27th September 2010, 18:41
The true creator has no gender, it simply is and we are but parts of it creation and experience, and we will continue to experience.
All things good, bad ,indifferent is part of that experience.... to help us grow.

RedeZra
28th September 2010, 04:32
The true creator has no gender

neither have we

as we are souls


this is just a part n play of physicality

males play the part of the Father while females play the part of the Mother


in reality all Nature is feminine

therefore we attribute masculinity to God or Yud ( Y ) ;)

shadowstalker
28th September 2010, 04:37
this is just a part n play of physicality

males play the part of the Father while females play the part of the Mother

Yes i know:cool:

truthseekerdan
28th September 2010, 04:39
As 'souls' we are androgynous. ;)

RedeZra
28th September 2010, 05:08
good now 'Yud' represents the number ten in Gematria ( I O ) which signifies a self sufficient system

moreover it's the 1st letter of the Tetragrammaton

and a representation of maleness since Y chromosome is passed from father to son

truthseekerdan
28th September 2010, 05:10
Please stay on topic Red...:)

RedeZra
28th September 2010, 05:12
Please stay on topic Red...:)

no I will use this thread to drop my infinite knowledge ;)

truthseekerdan
28th September 2010, 05:18
Oprah - Spirituality 101 (False Religion)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGSJzNN5bg

Mluck
28th September 2010, 06:22
Religion is merely an institution to supress the truth as simple as theat. Great thread

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 00:20
Religion is merely an institution to supress the truth as simple as theat.

no that's government ;)

Celine
29th September 2010, 00:23
no that's government ;)

Are you saying religion doesnt hide thruths?

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 02:04
Are you saying religion doesnt hide thruths?

I'm saying governments hide n suppress truths

the Hidden hand is choking Liberty

so it got a finger into religion too

but it invented nuage

Celine
29th September 2010, 02:06
Ok Just wasnt sure what it had to do with a thread about Spirituality versus Religion..

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 02:46
Ok Just wasnt sure what it had to do with a thread about Spirituality versus Religion..

Spirituality is the heart of Religion

but but but much Spirituality is tainted n twisted to successfully lead you astray from simple Spirituality n Religion into Spiritualism n interaction with lesser spirits

stick to simple Spirituality n ignore the trickery of Spiritualism n Channeling

they just want to see you fall from grace like they fell on their own accord

Celine
29th September 2010, 02:51
IMHO

Religion is about "Man"

Spirituality is about "God"

Snowy Owl
29th September 2010, 02:53
Interesting thread indeed.

I would first make a distinction between religion that has a 'conversion agenda' like Christianity and Islamisim.

Native religions are not promoting conversion just like Hindus, Sikhs, Jainism, Bouddhism, etc..

It seems apparent once we study Sacred text of non conversion agenda we are nearer than what Cartesians called Spirituality.

That being said, there are common grounds for these religions; they abide more to their belief, they are more Humble in their pretention towards the Truth and their religion is mainly about their own behaviors.

Among those religions there are those that are just local religion, mostly bound by the blood line, Mohawks, Judaism in brief the Khalsa, meaning the Pure of this Earth.

So there not so many religions left that are very near personal and collective spirituality but they are and again some common grounds can be found.

This process is callled synchretism, what matter most is that the Supreme do not behave emotionally or mentally like humans, therefore Gods of resentment, promoters of conquest, punishers and so on are in fact against Spirituality, there purpose is conquest, convert, coerce, etc...

What is left is Peacefull Spiritual behaviors, Peacefull words, Peacefull acts, Peace of Mind, which is well describe in one of the Guru Granth Sahib called SukhMani. The Guru Granth Sahib is a synchretist book unifying wht is common in the Katebas (meaning four books) that is the Torah, Talmud, New Testament and the Koran and Bouddhidm, SHivaism, Hinduism and Buddhism.

As I say over and over the Sri Guru Granth Sahib compiled less than 4 centuries ago is IMHO the cream of the cream in Holy Scriptures because even with thousands of page there is not even one sentences that can offended any religions and any spirituality.

The main reason for this is that the founder of this newest religion (Sikkism), probably went study in Jerusalem, went to the Mecca a monument stand there for Him called the Pir of India, Pir meaning Sage, monuments in Tibet and of course all over India.

His universal religious knowledge even allowed The Founder Guru Nanak, from jail, stop the massacres of Emperor Aurangzed in Afghanistan and the Emperor got a inner transformation from truth.

For those who like to explore other culture here is a song of what we call the ''Mool Mantra'' wich means the Basic Mantra
It is concise and up to now could not have beem contest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDm3gmkxk2I&feature=related

enjoy

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 03:00
IMHO

Religion is about "Man"

Spirituality is about "God"

Spirituality is personal between you n God

Religion is community between us n God

Spiritualism is contact with spirits


it is possible to mistake Spiritualism for Spirituality but it's not the same

Celine
29th September 2010, 03:18
IMHO

Religion is about "Man"

Spirituality is about "God"

As stated... this is my opinion...and it is very valid for me.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Spirituality is personal between you n God

Religion is community between us n God

Spiritualism is contact with spirits


it is possible to mistake Spiritualism for Spirituality but it's not the same


Are these your truisms? or do you believe this as a fact..and all other perspectives are incorrect?

Beth
29th September 2010, 03:19
Spirituality is personal between you n God

Religion is community between us n God

Spiritualism is contact with spirits


it is possible to mistake Spiritualism for Spirituality but it's not the same

Or we could just let people define it for themselves. Personal truths don't have to be universal truths.

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 04:14
Personal truths don't have to be universal truths.

I am universal ;)

truthseekerdan
29th September 2010, 05:34
Great debate going on this thread. Please be kind to each other...;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/condo/Myspace/Quotes/Dali.png

:love:

RedeZra
29th September 2010, 06:53
New Age is Spiritualism n Spiritism

Channeling n Summoning

spirits strongmen powers n principalities

which have been around for a long time n know how to trick you to join them


Spirituality is personal practical application of simple spiritual values like love truth compassion charity etc which is pleasing to God n draws infinite grace n protection into one's own being


Christianity at least is established by Christ to tell the Good news
that if you attach yourself to Christ then He will guide guard n defend you in the face of men n spirits

Men make mistakes n many has given Religion a bad name but it does not diminish the Glory of God nor the Compassion of Christ

truthseekerdan
8th October 2010, 15:15
The 12 Laws of Karma


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZX8QSdJ9go

THE GREAT LAW
As you sow, so shall you reap.
This is also known as the Law of Cause and Effect.
Whatever we put out in the Universe
is what comes back to us.
If what we want is Happiness, Peace, Friendship, Love...
Then we should BE Happy, Peaceful, Loving, a Friend.

THE LAW OF CREATION
Life doesn't just HAPPEN, it requires our participation.
We are one with the Universe both inside and out.
Whatever surrounds us gives us clues to our inner state.
BE and DO yourself...
what you what to have in your Life.

THE LAW OF HUMILITY
What you refuse to accept, will continue for you.
If what we see is an enemy, or someone with a character trait that we find to be negative,
then we ourselves are not focused on a higher level of existence.

THE LAW OF GROWTH
Wherever you go, there you are.
For us to GROW in Spirit it is we who must change and not the people, places or things around us.
The only given we have in our lives is OURSELVES
and that is the only factor we have control over.
When we change who and what we are within our heart
our life changes too.

THE LAW OF RESPONSIBILITY
Whenever there is something wrong,
there is something wrong in me.
We mirror what surrounds us
and what surrounds us mirrors us
We must take responsibility what is in our life.

THE LAW OF CONNECTION
Even if something we do seems inconsequential,
it is very important that it gets done
as everything in the Universe is connected.
Each step leads to the next step and so forth and so on.
Someone must do the initial work to get a job done.
Neither the first step nor the last
are of greater significance
They were both needed to accomplish the task.
Past, Present, Future
They are all connected...

THE LAW OF FOCUS
You can't think of two things at the same time.
When our focus is on Spiritual Values it is impossible for us to have lower thoughts such as greed or anger.

THE LAW OF GIVING AND HOSPITALITY
If you believe something to be true, then sometime in your life
you will be called upon to demonstrate that truth.
Here is where we put what we SAY
that we have learned
into PRACTICE.

THE LAW OF HERE AND NOW
Looking back to examine what was,
prevents us from being totally in the HERE AND NOW.
Old thoughts, old patterns of behavior, old dreams...
Prevent us from having new ones.

THE LAW OF CHANGE
History repeats itself until
we learn the lessons that we need
to change our path.

THE LAW OF PATIENCE AND REWARD
All Rewards require initial toil.
Rewards of lasting value
require patient and persistent toil.
True Joy follows doing what we're suppose to be doing and waiting for the Reward to come in it's on time.

THE LAW OF SIGNIFICANCE AND INSPIRATION
You get back from something whatever
you've put into it
The Value of something is a direct result of
the energy and intent that is put into it.
Every personal contribution
is also a contribution to the Whole
Lack luster Contributions have no impact on the Whole
or work to diminish it.
Loving Contributions Lift Up and Inspire the Whole

Carmody
8th October 2010, 17:28
I do indeed dislike the word Law, as that is a human word used to define the scope of the 'crime'.. and the direction and scope of punishment for those who move contrary to the given group's social and cultural mores.

Please try to refrain from all use of the word law. Please try to find an alternative method of expression of the given concept. :)

The word Law, is inherently derogatory in it's psychological and physical interactions with and within man, IMO.

For example, science and physics has theories. Engineers are given them as laws, so they will not consider anything about them -except their use in engineering attempts and building/design of physical structures or similar.


The expression of the human term Law, is to create an immutable unquestioning background in something that was originally and is inherently that of a question.. and is created by a questioning mind that does not feel it has the answers, and that the shape of the answer is always evolving and changing. Theory is the understanding of the moment which can always change.

Theory or concept inherently allows for, nay, expects the growth of man and his understandings.

The introduction of the word law into science and physics was the sneakiest crime committed to the advancement of man through science...that has happened in the past 400 years.

The concept of Law, directly involves judgment..and:

Judgment is a fools game, it anchors one so they cannot move or evolve forward, onward or upward..and anchors one in the self lies of their own past. It disallows all further evolution.

This the inherent danger hiding within the use of the word law.

See it for what it is.

Start looking at the words 'concept' or 'theory'. However, the problem is that they do not hold the strengths of the word law, as an impression...to the human mind that is always looking for the feeling of safety in the comfort of black and white answers.

Too bad for man, isn't it?

Trapped in their own mental constructs.

truthseekerdan
8th October 2010, 18:24
Please try to refrain from all use of the word law. Please try to find an alternative method of expression of the given concept. :)

The word Law, is inherently derogatory in it's psychological and physical interactions with and within man, IMO.


Carmody, nothing to Fear my friend. ;)

When we're going to graduate from this 'state of mind', we might not need to call it 'Law' -- since we're going to 'Live IT'.
Meantime just try to apply this 'concept' in your day to day life...:)

With Love, ~ Dan

Zook
8th October 2010, 19:17
Greetings Carmody,


I do indeed dislike the word Law, as that is a human word used to define the scope of the 'crime'.. and the direction and scope of punishment for those who move contrary to the given group's social and cultural mores.

Please try to refrain from all use of the word law. Please try to find an alternative method of expression of the given concept. :)

The word Law, is inherently derogatory in it's psychological and physical interactions with and within man, IMO.


It sure is a terragedy, Carmody. However, I would argue that like tools, the rule of words is how we use them, not abuse them (the latter being, exceptions). If we were to single out terms for their inherent derogation, a significant chunk of the English language would have to be repackaged. Not enough to make Mandarin a better option, mind you; tho' French perhaps could have a go at the Emperor's tongue and then where would we be? (Ten times the attitude and no more English muffins!!)

To illustrate my point, the word rape is equally if not more derogatory than the word law. Just bad vibes from the moment it rolls off the tongue. But then what would it earn us if we were to banish/boycott the term from the lexicon? Sexual assaults would still occur in peacetime when sensibilities are high. Mind you, perhaps there is some measure of sanctuary in the newer phrase ... but I doubt any woman would prefer being sexually assaulted to being raped. The newer phrase doesn't benefit the woman nearly as much as it does the society that wants to appear progressive. Worse yet, the perpetrator stands to get as much or more relief from the negative energy of the term rape (with the switch to the phrase sexual assault) ... than the victim. And in times of war, when sensibilities are practically nonexistent, the term rape is sure to surface time and again as a brandished weapon, regardless of any attempt to boycott it. To wit, if we as humans cannot prevent war, do we deserve language that pretends that the beast in us does not exist?

Not to make light of things, but "The Sexual Assault of Lucresia just doesn't carry the emotional energy as does the original title. And raping and pillaging sounds a lot more worthy of cold-blooded savages than does "sexually assaulting and pillaging".



[...]
This the inherent danger hiding within the use of the word law.
See it for what it is.
Start looking at the words 'concept' or 'theory'. However, the problem is that they do not hold the strengths of the word law, as an impression...to the human mind that is always looking for the feeling of safety in the comfort of black and white answers.
Too bad for man, isn't it?
Trapped in their own mental constructs.

All excellent points, Carmody! Law is rigid. Theory/concepts are organic. Therein lies the paradox. I completely agree with what you say; yet still believe that terms should be left alone to evolve/devolve on their own schedule. IMHO, attempting to boycott any word ... is merely a bandage that patches the skin; yet doesn't change the body within.

truthseekerdan
6th December 2010, 17:58
Religion Dogma and Love (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oecNbX74nmM)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oecNbX74nmM

As part of a documentary on love, an interview with Neale Donald Walsch responding to the question - Why we all have a sense of love but we don't always live it?

Gone002
6th December 2010, 20:02
you need religion get to a higher level/understanding of spirituality

Merkaba360
10th December 2010, 17:13
There is no spirituality or religion. Only infinite perception. Its all natural, a part of infinite nature (of perception). Every ideology is doing the same thing - trying to figure out how the nature of reality works. U call it spirituality I could call it science.

If someone is trying to understand the parts of reality outisde what is known, you can call that spirituality or whatever. Some call it studying the occult. The occult is that which is hidden. The left brain likes to create all this complication and convoluted nonsense to trap us into the words. I suggest to be careful being a sap for words !! ;)

truthseekerdan
10th December 2010, 17:43
There is no spirituality or religion. Only infinite perception. Its all natural, a part of infinite nature (of perception). Every ideology is doing the same thing - trying to figure out how the nature of reality works. U call it spirituality I could call it science.

Hi Merkaba360, I partially agree with you above, and here is why -- From a higher perspective (spirit), this whole reality (3D) is actually illusionary. However, when in the 3D body it seems very real. One cannot have "infinite perception" while in a physical body -- due to limitations imposed, so to speak. One (soul) may achieve "infinite perception" only in the case of an NDE or OBE. Just my perception...:nod:

If someone is trying to understand the parts of reality outisde what is known, you can call that spirituality or whatever. Some call it studying the occult. The occult is that which is hidden. The left brain likes to create all this complication and convoluted nonsense to trap us into the words. I suggest to be careful being a sap for words !! ;)

This is the duality nature of this reality to experience the opposite of what ones soul is (its true divine essence). Hope this helps...:)

Namaste ~ Dan

Merkaba360
16th December 2010, 00:44
Namaste ~ Dan

Hey Dan-
I see what u mean, but I should have been more clear.

I just meant that everything is a unique experience for the whole. So, everything is "spiritual". Therefore spirituality loses its meaning and all is just perception. Your perception on thru the Aeons will approach infinity. I meant that the universe is infinite perception and we get a glimpse at it. Its really just a problem of semantics and I worry about the people who take words like "spirituality" as something important as if anything is not spiritual or a learning experience in a magickal world.

l_e_cox
7th January 2011, 10:40
Those of us who feel we must deal with this issue, and I must since I am a member of a church that advocates spiritual advancement, really need to work on our understandings of these subjects!

A theme among the posts is that spirituality is more of a personal thing, while religion implies social institutions. This is very valid. Yet I don't agree that the two concepts, or activities, are completely at war with each other.

Religion: All research I have read indicates that religions have been consistently used for social control. But does that mean that religion exists for that sole purpose? I don't think so. The problem that religion has is that it deals with one of many human vulnerabilities, which is the inability to explain all observed phenomena rationally. Any human vulnerability offers a control point to those who want to control. Religion offers a thought-level control point, and that is very powerful. There are body-level control points such as food, clothing, and shelter. You can see how these are being played on recently, using money as the basic control mechanism. Thought-level control is potentially even more powerful, and religion is specially targeted exactly because it does deal with the spiritual, which is a part of life that is easy to confuse people about.

But we can't ignore the fact that churches are important social institutions in many communities. They provide services and succor to many people. In some places, the church is the only institution in the community doing this. Most of us living in modern urban environments no longer use churches for these services, but I have (the Catholic church here runs a free legal advice program that I needed not too long ago, and my own church helps give me a sense of family, since otherwise, I live alone).

So I don't see the problem being religion and churches. I see the problem as being caused by a rather small group of mostly men who think that the only way to run a society is to enslave it. These people, if allowed, will gradually insinuate themselves into the important control points of a society and misuse them in their misguided efforts to establish their idea of social control. This planet is moving alarmingly quickly in that direction.

Spirituality: Most religions teach some sort of spiritual viewpoint. Meanwhile, those who actually take spiritual reality seriously and learn to tap into its power are often rewarded with good results. These people might or might not be involved with a church, but chances are that the teachings they are using have been created, preserved, or promulgated with the assistance of some sort of religious organization. Reverse-wise, church membership alone says very little about the spiritual awareness or abilities of any given individual. Some churches overtly encourage their members to improve spiritually, and I think that is valuable. But no one but the individual can actually do it.

Spiritual teachings can be used for social control just as religious organizations can be. You can push a spiritual teaching that you know to be flawed and incomplete. Individuals can learn it and follow it in the sincere belief that it is the best of ancient wisdom available to them. Yet it might not really be that at all, and they could waste a whole lifetime seeking something that the teachings they are using were never designed to give them, even if advertised otherwise. The proof of any spiritual teaching is results, not adherence to dogma or ritual. Spiritual teachings are valuable where they get useful, lasting results.

The power to correct any outness lies first and foremost with those who recognize that something is wrong. As individuals, we need to demand that our religious institutions provide high levels of good service and are not allowed to be used by criminals for purposes of bad control. And we need to demand from our spiritual teachers useful and lasting results.

Erin
7th January 2011, 16:02
Religion is faith in the establishment, spirituality is faith in yourself. Religion is a human construct, spirituality is something innate that we can tap into without a middleman.

You can be religious and spiritual, you can be non-religious yet spiritual, you can be non-spiritual but religious (the most dangerous of all, I think), and neither one.

Personally, I'm atheist and not very spiritual at all. I'd like to be, but...it's hard to find the time and I honestly would not know where to start.

DawgBone
7th January 2011, 16:12
Religion is faith in the establishment, spirituality is faith in yourself.

Perfect!

The religionists are trying to sell us what we already have. It's like trying to convince an elephant that he needs to buy a trunk!

And, of course, they are the only ones selling high quality trunks. And they happen to be very expensive ...

Dale
7th January 2011, 16:30
You can be religious and spiritual, you can be non-religious yet spiritual, you can be non-spiritual but religious (the most dangerous of all, I think), and neither one.

Very well said.

Spirituality, in my opinion, is one's connection with that spark of divinity that resides deep within. Religion, on the other hand, is a commercialized approach by an external source to show you how to reach that "divinity" in a quite factory processed way. Personal versus impersonal, one might conclude.

Religion requires "homework," whereas spirituality does not. Spirituality is doing what one loves, and feels empowered in doing so, and realizing it.

Seikou-Kishi
7th January 2011, 17:26
Oh I don't know Dale, I think it's possible for religion to be a true 'servant' of spirituality, by offering up its structure to those who wish to use it as a stepping stone to spirituality in such a way that it supports from beneath rather than dictating from on high. Unfortunately, that is the 'potential' of religion, the actuality seems quite different.

Kulapops
7th January 2011, 18:11
Yep.... I like that one Dale,

Religion is a tricky thing. It's not easy to spell for a start. Hmm, what does that tell us?

I've always been wary of any prescriptive behaviour. I've often thought religion is supermarket spirituality for the masses. Surely the path is always one of self discovery.

If you can buy presents for people at christmas, then why not when you feel like it? Doctrines read out in church may not resonate totally with how one feels, and how did they get there in the first place. Ok, so the jews believe the 10 commandments were written by God, that's pretty direct. BUt with the amount of information we get to be cynical about on Avalon, believing this is a leap of faith. I'm equally wary of someone saying 'set a table this way, or dress your boy in pink' (steiner) that's still presecriptive religion, or if someone says I should stick three feathers in a rock on Tuesday - I go 'why?'

I suppose in the end some things resonate with us and some things don't. I can believe there is a God, I can believe there was a Jesus, or at least a force of divine love at work in the world, because I have experienced it. That to me is more heavy on the spirituality than on the religion. I can believe there was a buddha, and that enlightenment and development is a worthy goal, but ask me to chant some phrase a hundred times a day in order to get there and my gut reaction is 'why that word? what will it do?'

It seems free will is the greatest gift bestowed upon us, so I'm loath to give that up to any organised form of worship unless I know what it does...

Spirituality 2 Religion 1

K

Zillah
9th January 2011, 05:25
When we speak about religion, we ask "What are your religious beliefs?"

"BELIE" - [1a] to give a false impression of [1b] to present an appearance not in agreement with [2a] to show (something) to be false or wrong [2b] to run counter to.

"BELIEVE" - [1a(1)] to have a firm religious faith, to consider to be true or honest [1b] to accept as true, genuine, or real, [1a(2)] to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something [1a(3)] to hold an opinion.

When we speak about spirituality, its described as an innate knowing

"KNOW" - [1a(1)] to perceive directly: have direct cognition of [1a(2)] to have understanding of [1a(3)] to recognize the nature of [1b(1)] to recognize as being the same as something previously known [1b(2)] to be acquainted or familiar with [1b(3)] to have experience of [2a] to be aware of the truth or factuality of, [2b] to have a practical understanding of.

Definitions came from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

>>The following passage I found on the topic of belief made me think of Celine's comment:

Religion is about "Man"

Spirituality is about "God"

Robert Traer Takes a look at the historical meaning of belief:

In English, to believe originally and literally meant to hold dear or to love.

"In German 'belieben' continues to mean this today. The English and German words share the same root., 'lieb' or 'lief', which also appears in Latin as 'libet', meaning it pleases. In Old English the word was 'leof' or 'liob'. A parallel form, 'lufu', became the word 'love'. In Old High German, 'gilouben' also meant to hold dear and developed into the modern German verb 'glauben' (to hold dear, to have faith, to believe) and the noun 'Glaube' (the act of holding dear, faith).

Thus, in early Modern English believe meant to cherish and to have faith. It was related to "belove," which has only survived in Modern English as beloved. For centuries belief was only used to refer to persons. To believe was to cherish and trust in someone. One could not, therefore, believe in what was impossible or false. One could only believe in persons.

so then why do we refer to religion (that is supposedly all about GOD) as a belief if this word was reserved for MAN? Who/What are we really devoting ourselves to?

By the time of the Reformation, the meaning of belief had already begun to change. John Wycliff twice translated the Bible into English. In his first translation he often used the word 'bilefe' (belief) for the Greek word 'pistis', which appears frequently in the gospels and in the letters of Paul. In his later translation he used the word "faith" to capture the New Testament meaning. The Oxford English Dictionary notes this shift observing that: "’ belief’ was the earlier word for what is commonly called ’faith’." The word, faith, comes from the Old French fei, which originally referred to duty or loyalty to a person."

so when asked, "what is your faith?" - should we redirect our thoughts from GOD and rephrase the question to "whom or what MAN do you serve?"

In the fourteenth century, as faith was used to translate the Latin fides, it began to replace belief in English, especially in theological works. As a result, belief began to lose its original meaning."--Robert Traer

I thought this was an interesting take on the words "Faith" and "Belief" as referring to persons - which subsequently has nothing to do with GOD, and yet these are the primary words to describe Religion.

O ye, of little faith? Perhaps that's a good thing!!! .... at least when it comes to you and your divinity.

Just some things to consider <3

grannyfranny100
9th January 2011, 18:05
Hi

I am new to my community. A few people have invited me to their churches to play cards and games - activities of no interest to me. Eventually some one will invite me to their church services. Does anyone have a polite response for me to use. "I carry my own church within me, " sounds really flippant and asking if their minister has actually translated the Bible from the original language would blow them away.

Granny Franny

Seikou-Kishi
9th January 2011, 18:08
If you know what denomination they are, claim to be something else lol. "I'm Catholic... I mean Episcopalian... would you believe Samaritan?" lol

AlkaMyst
9th January 2011, 19:25
Spirituality is who you really are...........Religion is just a disease !

I think that the Film "Wake Up" is an excellent film that has lots to do with what spirituality really is.....this film is a gem and it should be watched by every Avalon Members. You can't find it online unless one pays for it, but I have taken the liberty to bring this film to the Avalon Community.....Please see this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10738-Wake-up-A-film-about-spirituality...) started by Teakai.

trenairio
9th January 2011, 23:05
Religion is not all what it seems. As explained here in THE SECRET TEACHINGS OF ALL AGES by Manly P. Hall

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/index.htm

This text describes how the ancient sages of the Mysteries of Persia, Egypt, Greece etc. made the "stories of the gods" as allegories to deeper spiritual and universal meanings and axioms. Does not the Resurrection of the Christ resemble the restoration of man's spirit and virtue? As stated by the book, Christianity was concocted to preserve the Mysteries and mysticism due to the hidden knowledge being distorted by the 'Commons' or 'the profane' who gradually gained more and more possession of the hidden knowledge during the few centuries before the Christian era.

Another example would be the Greek Eleusinian Mysteries, as taken from the book

The legend used in the Lesser rites is that of the abduction of the goddess Persephone, the daughter of Ceres, by Pluto, the lord of the underworld, or Hades. While Persephone is picking flowers in a beautiful meadow, the earth suddenly opens and the gloomy lord of death, riding in a magnificent chariot, emerges from its somber depths and, grasping her in his arms, carries the screaming and struggling goddess to his subterranean palace, where he forces her to become his queen.

It is doubtful whether many of the initiates themselves understood the mystic meaning of this allegory, for most of them apparently believed that it referred solely to the succession of the seasons. It is difficult to obtain satisfactory information concerning the Mysteries, for the candidates were bound by inviolable oaths never to reveal their inner secrets to the profane. At the beginning of the ceremony of initiation, the candidate stood upon the skins of animals sacrificed for the purpose, and vowed that death should seal his lips before he would divulge the sacred truths which were about to be communicated to him. Through indirect channels, however, some of their secrets have been preserved. The teachings given to the neophytes were substantially as follows:

The soul of man--often called Psyche, and in the Eleusinian Mysteries symbolized by Persephone--is essentially a spiritual thing. Its true home is in the higher worlds, where, free from the bondage of material form and material concepts, it is said to be truly alive and self-expressive. The human, or physical, nature of man, according to this doctrine, is a tomb, a quagmire, a false and impermanent thing, the source of all sorrow and suffering. Plato describes the body as the sepulcher of the soul; and by this he means not only the human form but also the human nature.

The gloom and depression of the Lesser Mysteries represented the agony of the spiritual soul unable to express itself because it has accepted the limitations and illusions of the human environment...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta06.htm



If we're talking mainstream religion here, then I may be off topic...

Teakai
10th January 2011, 00:37
Hi

I am new to my community. A few people have invited me to their churches to play cards and games - activities of no interest to me. Eventually some one will invite me to their church services. Does anyone have a polite response for me to use. "I carry my own church within me, " sounds really flippant and asking if their minister has actually translated the Bible from the original language would blow them away.

Granny Franny

Maybe just a "No, but thanks for asking", Granny, Franny?

I have a bit of a situation myself. Sometimes when Jehova's come to visit I usually invite them in and we have a theological discussion and it's all very nice.
I do let them know in advance that I'm not interested in joining any religion and if that's what their aim is then they're wasting their time.

Anyway, the new lot who have come to visit me (3 times so far) the last visit they urged me to look up the JW site on the internet. So, I did.
And then I looked deeper into it and found out that the religion (and the mormons - mormons seem to be anathema to the JW's)) was founded on the funding and families of the Elite.
Then I came across all these testimonies about ex- J.W's telling of the mindcontrol that is involved and how, if you leave you are isolated and shunned by the rest of the cult and even your family.

Now, I don't think these people who are visiting me are aware of any of the history of the J.W's. I think they are just good people searching for something within religion to fulfill them.
The question I'm pondering is whether to let them know.
Or not.

I think they may already be fairly far gone, because all the logical and provable points I put across in our conversations were simply dismissed while they made some other point and as such it's very likely that my telling them will be like water off a duck's back.

Very likely I'll tell them - because it doesn't seem right not to. Maybe if I just say, "look, sorry, I looked into the origins of the JW church and they were started by what Christianity refers to as satan's spawn."
Mmm, that would go down nicely, I'm sure.

What I find worrying, is the depth to which people will give their mind away. They have sacrificed self thought and reason for blind faith. And this is totally irrational - and there's no telling what irrational people will do.

Reminds me of a quote I read once - “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
Steven Weinberg.

So, now I know this about the JW organisation - should I just say thanks, but no thanks - or take all who come by my door in and try and reconvert them back to rationality?
Not liking the chances of that, but am usually up for a challenge :)

araucaria
1st February 2011, 18:27
good now 'Yud' represents the number ten in Gematria ( I O ) which signifies a self sufficient system

moreover it's the 1st letter of the Tetragrammaton

and a representation of maleness since Y chromosome is passed from father to son

Here’s a piece I promised Lunar on another thread where it would have been OT – hopefully not here. This was written ten days ago, I’ve tried to update it, not easy, that’s a long time right now.

On believing and knowing, and triangles

10 is a triangular number: you can stack the numbers 1- 10 to form a triangle (1, 2 3, 4 5 6, 7 8 9 10, the tetraktys). 33 is three short of a triangular number: you can form a topless triangle by starting with 1 2 3, 4 5 6 7 etc. This is the 2D equivalent of a pyramid without the capstone. Why the missing capstone? It means that when you think you are at the top of any hierarchical structure you are already at the bottom of the next one up – caught in an endless string of superiors exploiting subordinates.

This is an upside down way of doing things. There is another way.

The philosopher/mathematician Pascal’s triangle is also incomplete, only at the bottom, not the top. The apex starts with 1, 1 1, 1 2 1, and every row is generated by adding the two figures immediately above. This triangle was designed for a betting friend of Pascal’s and is a table of probabilities. It works in the real world, and provably so: the gambler’s winnings. The question is, how did Pascal construct the apex of his triangle? Clearly the 1s down both sides come from following the rule of adding the two numbers above, i.e. 1 plus nothing.

However by that same token, the 1 at the very top would have to be the sum of nothing plus nothing!
Now Pascal himself was not a betting man, except for his one famous wager: ‘God exists’. Sometimes seen as a cowardly act of faith, this wager here takes the form of posing the equation 0 + 0 = 1*. But remember, you can bank on it working because it generates all the rest! Hence what started out as a leap of faith is turned instantly into dead certainty, because as soon as he writes it down in a probability table, 1 means a 100% probability! Hence ‘God’ exists as the creator of something out of nothing. From the certainty of infinite oneness at the top, it is increasing uncertainty all the way down to infinite multiplicity at the ‘bottom’.

1, 1 1 – this is the only possible apex on the triangle or capstone on the pyramid. Understandably it sometimes goes missing… The bottomless Great Pyramid has also lost its facing stones, the 1s down the sides. Hence our journey has to be upwards (and hence outwards), unless of course you prefer the upside down pyramid symbolism and take the negative path, pretending down is up.

The glasshouse we are in, as Charles suggested with stones or seeds in our pockets, stifling in greenhouse gases, is deep down inside, a kind of prison planet reminiscent of Jeremy Bentham’s Panopticon (cf. Michel Foucault in ‘Discipline and Punish’). So from this viewpoint, we may want to side with Eva Brick! Explanatory note: Eva Brick (’eave a brick), if I’m not mistaken, is part of the cockney alphabet, A for… E for… etc. I think Ava Gardner the seed-planter comes into it as well. Also you can demolish a glass house from the outside, e.g. with Qbrick’s Eva Monolith? (paragraph more relevant, or rather more topical, last week, sorry).

* Lunar, for you: we were talking about solving a paradox by adding an extra dimension. This equation would be the mathematical formula for that process.

Let’s say, to make sure I’m still on topic: spirituality is the upward path, religion (as a control mechanism at least) is the downward path.