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View Full Version : See what happend to this child...NATO & Rebels Crimes in Sirt



ktlight
11th October 2011, 09:02
I apologise for posting this but YOU NEED TO SEE!!!

"See how NATO & Rebels protecting civilians in Sirt....World enjoy watching this video......NATO countries......See where your tax goes..........Will you continue your silence about the NATO humanitarian intervention....Wake up, NATO and Rebels are killing innocent people in Sirt not protecting them................"

===

Mod-edit: I merged two threads on this video, one of which did not show it (just mentioned DavidIcke.com as a place to find it) and one of which embedded it for easy viewing.

I rather like the "no show" approach, so I've decided to go that way. The article and video can be found at http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/54530-the-evil-that-is-nato-the-killing-machine-for-nations-with-values-. I removed the directly embedded video from this post.

When Youtube replaces the video page with an extra link to click and with this warning:
The following content has been identified by the YouTube community as being potentially offensive or inappropriate. Viewer discretion is advised. ... they aren't kidding. If the David Icke page goes away, the Youtube id is hobDCtmx0xo.

:) :cow: :) -Paul.

Nairnia
11th October 2011, 16:41
Disgusting.

This forum just hit an all time low.

Lost Soul
11th October 2011, 17:43
I don't think it's necessary to see. We all know that NATO's attack on Libya was unnecessary and poorly masked as humanitarian in nature. Libya has been set back 50 years and I await to see how their 141 tons of gold is divided up as spoils of humanitarian conquest. El Jefe della Estados Unidos de America should have been impeached, but Congress has been bought and paid for too.

truth4me
11th October 2011, 22:44
There is a video on davidicke.com entitled The Evil That is NATO. It's on the front page. If you decide to look at it be for warned it is the most brutal 1:00 video I've ever seen. I watched it and was sicken.The horrors of innocent people caught in a senseless war. Our governments who promote war have got some heavy karma to payback......:tsk:

meeradas
11th October 2011, 22:57
i just cannot click the "thanks" button after seeing this.
Was my own fault, i know - thank you for not providing a clickable link here.
welcome to hell

meeradas
11th October 2011, 23:36
same topic (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32364-A-video-on-davidicke.com......&p=330041), without the embedded vid

===

Mod-edit: that above link now goes right back to this same thread, due to my merging both threads. :) :cow: :) -Paul.

truth4me
11th October 2011, 23:38
i just cannot click the "thanks" button after seeing this.
Was my own fault, i know - thank you for not providing a clickable link here.
welcome to hell To be quite honest it's hard for me to believe Icke left it up. Believe me I'm not after a "thanks" for that video. I'm watching my 5 year old grandson today and after viewing that.....you understand.

truth4me
11th October 2011, 23:42
thats the one..........

meeradas
11th October 2011, 23:48
Believe me I'm not after a "thanks" for that video

That's crystal clear, and could't be misinterpreted as such.
Thanks again for not linking/ embedding [i mean it!].

shadowstalker
12th October 2011, 00:09
http://www.davidicke.com/

@ meeradas
really?????



just right click on the link and go from there..
I certainly had no troubles doing that...
Makes me wonder about people.

Must be a bad day for you :confused:

Cidersomerset
12th October 2011, 00:14
Thanks Truth4me David has been talking about this for years, the senceless pepper bombing of civilians in Bagdad and in other warzones so that the military ind complex can make more arms, for the next wars!!
Its sickening but bombs means 'OUR' cash for the rich industrialists to get more richer,crueler and powercrazy......at all of our expence ...Steve

29C_KNZ7RNs

I was looking for the vid where he talks about pepper bombing, but I could not find the right clip,
this one is just as relevent........

meeradas
12th October 2011, 00:32
Must be a bad day for you :confused:
Thanks for caring!
:horn: [Now, honestly: There's no link in the opening post here. Or, my browser's broken...]

StephenW11UK
12th October 2011, 01:18
truth4me,

Some among us, and I am one of them, need to see a brutal film like this to be really convinced (once again) of the ways of the Elite, of how utterly ruthless and barbaric they are. Because, over time, we as a race have accepted more and more of their indoctrination into our view of how the world is, this is so much easier for them to get away with now than if more of us had been saying no!, no!, no! over the years and really acting it out.

Thank you.

Paul
12th October 2011, 01:23
I apologise for posting this but YOU NEED TO SEE!!!


There is a video on davidicke.com entitled The Evil That is NATO. It's on the front page.
I merged these two threads, and modified the resulting opening post to not directly embed this video, as explained in Post #1 of this now merged thread.

:) :cow: :)

mahalall
12th October 2011, 01:38
Thankyou klight for drawing our attention.

I'm assuming the medical practitioners were in shock, were not used to this type of trauma, or were overwhelmed with casualties to allow this camera person so close- is very bad practice.
It is not the camera in general but the camera persons detachment from involvement and her smirking appearance. The scene has to be really bad for a culture like this to exist.

Sadly this is the truth of war which is far removed from the glossy images we receive. In some ways I'm glad that this images are not used as mass propaganda tools, but have found myself reflecting on what if these images were shown to all women and mothers and requested to renounce sex in assertion that man renounces violence?effect?

sidh25
12th October 2011, 02:03
..........

Flash
12th October 2011, 02:04
I am so so sorry for the poor little ones. I am pretty sure that Gadhafi very rarely did anything like this to children. How bad can we get when making war for not reasons except petroleum, clean water and few billions to rob.

East Sun
12th October 2011, 03:55
When I saw the video earlier today I was (I can't find an appropriate word to describe what I felt). But I think people should see it. Why is it not on the 6 o clock news. It is real and we should not hide away from it's reality.

I believe it should be shown even if it gives us nightmares. Then we might be spurred into doing something. Causing or allowing this kind of horror is a crime against humanity. The worst kind of crime. The manipulators of wars should be exposed and dealt with.

Guard against propaganda and brainwashing and lies. It's all around us.

Show the facts daily and the masses will wake up in shock. Hide nothing. Lets face it and deal with it.

ktlight
12th October 2011, 08:31
That is OCCUPATION (which USA calls WAR) of other's country. NO LOVE IN IT. Is WAR any worse?

Lily de Cuir
12th October 2011, 10:20
Hello Everyone,

I did not want to click on that vid. In fact, I don't click on anything now, if there is a warning. (I once watched a real life be-heading on the web and it freaked me out for months.)

Today I ummed and arred whether to look at it. I eventually did.

After some very serious consideration, I showed it to my young, teenage son. I've NEVER shown him anything like that before. I knew it would disturb him. I did so for a reason.

Why? Because he has a fantasy about being a soldier, in the army and going to war. I wanted to show him the truth. He watched it and it sickened him and rightly so.

Hopefully I've helped changed his mind about 'serving his country'.

Thank you ktlight...

Truth hurts alright....and we all need to read, see and hear the truth. However unpalatable, disturbing and uncomfortable as it may be.

Hopefully ktlight, this vid my young son saw tonight will not only save his life but those of others.

Thank you for your bravery in posting this.

Lily de Cuir

ktlight
12th October 2011, 10:30
Lily de Cuir, "this vid my young son saw tonight will not only save his life but those of others."

This is the whole idea of such a post, painful as it is to watch.

Maia Gabrial
12th October 2011, 12:01
Re: See what happend to this child...NATO & Rebels Crimes in Sirt
I don't think it's necessary to see. We all know that NATO's attack on Libya was unnecessary and poorly masked as humanitarian in nature. Libya has been set back 50 years and I await to see how their 141 tons of gold is divided up as spoils of humanitarian conquest. El Jefe della Estados Unidos de America should have been impeached, but Congress has been bought and paid for too.

I agree with you, Lost Soul. Even the Attorney General, Erik Holden is a corrupt friend of the president. He won't bring charges against any of those DC criminals, let alone the president. But they'll all find themselves prosecuted anyway. The PEOPLE will demand it and take charge of it. They'll show them the error of their ways.... Once the police and military get on board, with their heads on straight and see what is right, they'll side with the PEOPLE....Then the crooks will have no choice but to surrender....

Maia Gabrial
12th October 2011, 12:25
Thank you, tklight. It was needed because if anyone thinks that NATO is doing an honorable thing here, this video sure proves otherwise. I can't stop crying. This is what NATO with the UN's approval have done. F***ers....

Calz
12th October 2011, 12:34
I watched ... yes it is as ugly as it gets.

Individual choice on how to deal with things like this.

Easy choice is to turn our heads ... just like with what most do regarding some elite and what they do with the children (not gonna spell it out ... use your imagination). Some things are beyond the scope of what most of us would describe as "human behavior".

Harder choice is to face it ... and let it build your resolve for what is really really wrong with society as it is ... at least *now*.

Best choice is to use it as an example of what society must choose to eliminate ... at least *tomorrow*.

IMHO

Maia Gabrial
12th October 2011, 12:49
What this proves to me is that the UN with its killing machine, NATO should be disbanded NOW! They're bloodthirsty murders and mutilators. They are NOT the honorable organizations they claim to be.

I hope that video goes viral, so those who don't believe NATO is doing worse than what Lame Stream Media is reporting, this WILL prove it. I was horrified, but I wouldn't have missed it.

There is NO HONOR in killing another being. NO HONOR in Wars. Those who back both sides of the wars for money are WITHOUT HONOR. Those who glorify wars are WITHOUT HONOR. Those who have lied and convinced people to join their sick wars or that killing or maiming anyone for God and Country are WITHOUT HONOR.... Anyone who believes that wars are good need a wake up call....Let people see this side of what is being done. Let them be horrified, too. THAT'S the reality of what's being done.... This child could easily be one of our own....Does anyone think like that?

Maybe there needs to be an "OCCUPY THE UN" now, so these horrible atrocities are outlawed....

You are right, ktlight. This NEEDS to be seen by everyone....

randles
12th October 2011, 12:51
I am in complete shock. I managed about 10 seconds ..

I remember years ago when Bob Geldof highlighted the plight of Ethopia and we were openly shown images through MSM, of starvation and who can forget this image..http://lacomunidad.elpais.com/blogfiles/illya-alvarado-apuntes-de-fotografia/BNW-vulture-waits-for-child-to-die.jpg

.......

No matter the tears induced by the reality of the video, this cannot and should not be swept away...
Thank you...

Calz
12th October 2011, 12:55
After some very serious consideration, I showed it to my young, teenage son. I've NEVER shown him anything like that before. I knew it would disturb him. I did so for a reason.

Why? Because he has a fantasy about being a soldier, in the army and going to war. I wanted to show him the truth. He watched it and it sickened him and rightly so.

Hopefully I've helped changed his mind about 'serving his country'.

Lily de Cuir

Good for you :thumb:

My two sons want nothing to do with the military but if they did I would certainly join your approach.

Maia Gabrial
12th October 2011, 12:57
Randles,
The picture you chose is another one that horrified me when I saw it about a year ago. I cried for days afterwards because this should not be happening anywhere in our world, let alone a child. This needs to get world wide attention....
I just looked closer at the picture. Is that a chain around the child's neck? Is he being shackled in that spot for the vulture to get? Oh, God.... :help:

randles
12th October 2011, 13:05
Husssssssssssssh ....think soothing, calming thoughts...

Here, you can find the story behind the picture..

http://africanhistory.about.com/b/2006/04/12/the-journalist-the-vulture-and-the-child.htm

"The haunting photo of a vulture stalking an emaciated Sudanese girl who'd collapsed on her way to a feeding station won photographer Kevin Carter a Pulitzer Prize in 1994. Carter also become notorious for sticking to the journalistic principle of being an observor and not getting involved -- he left after taking his photo and neither he, nor the New York Times, which first published the photo on 26 March 1993, knew what happened to her. (Looking at the photo, it's hard to imagine a pleasant ending.) A few months later after collecting his Pulitzer, Carter committed suicide, the violence he'd encountered in his life as a journalist, especially in South Africa, becoming too much to live with. "

Randles,
The picture you chose is another one that horrified me when I saw it about a year ago. I cried for days afterwards because this should not be happening anywhere in our world, let alone a child. This needs to get world wide attention....
I just looked closer at the picture. Is that a chain around the child's neck? Is he being shackled in that spot for the vulture to get? Oh, God.... :help:

ktlight
12th October 2011, 13:10
Husssssssssssssh ....think soothing, calming thoughts...

Here, you can find the story behind the picture..

http://africanhistory.about.com/b/2006/04/12/the-journalist-the-vulture-and-the-child.htm

"The haunting photo of a vulture stalking an emaciated Sudanese girl who'd collapsed on her way to a feeding station won photographer Kevin Carter a Pulitzer Prize in 1994. Carter also become notorious for sticking to the journalistic principle of being an observor and not getting involved -- he left after taking his photo and neither he, nor the New York Times, which first published the photo on 26 March 1993, knew what happened to her. (Looking at the photo, it's hard to imagine a pleasant ending.) A few months later after collecting his Pulitzer, Carter committed suicide, the violence he'd encountered in his life as a journalist, especially in South Africa, becoming too much to live with. "

Randles,
The picture you chose is another one that horrified me when I saw it about a year ago. I cried for days afterwards because this should not be happening anywhere in our world, let alone a child. This needs to get world wide attention....
I just looked closer at the picture. Is that a chain around the child's neck? Is he being shackled in that spot for the vulture to get? Oh, God.... :help:

I have to ask: how can anyone walk away from that young child's plight?

Maia Gabrial
12th October 2011, 13:18
Disgusting.

This forum just hit an all time low.

Not really....This forum is for our benefit. It's not low to bring the truth forward. What is low is that this horrific illegal war is happening right now to innocent people. This video is showing what the UN and the USA have ordered. Illegal as hell, but who's stopping them? Looking away or ignoring it is one way to deal with it as Calz said, but that changes nothing. It's still happening.... Yes, it's horrific to watch, but that's what their reality has been made into. They CAN'T look away, can they?

People might want to consider something else: Those bombs could just as easily be dropped right here on our soil next. Those are the same people dropping the bombs on innocent children that can be ordered to do the same to anyone of our countries next.... It's something worth considering....

Maybe for some people pictures speak louder to them. Empathy helps us realize that it's all wrong; that it needs to stop NOW. No one deserves this....Would anyone have believed it, if they hadn't seen this video?
I really hope this goes viral....

randles
12th October 2011, 13:23
The answer to that my friend is only to be found from within...

WE have the strength and the courage and the Freedom to fight.... For all of our children.. And thanks to Avalon, we have a Platform, a Unity of Voice in which to keep Highlighted all of these UNHUMAN not INHUMAN acts against OUR Children with each and every Sunset and Sunrise...
.






Husssssssssssssh ....think soothing, calming thoughts...

Here, you can find the story behind the picture..

http://africanhistory.about.com/b/2006/04/12/the-journalist-the-vulture-and-the-child.htm

"The haunting photo of a vulture stalking an emaciated Sudanese girl who'd collapsed on her way to a feeding station won photographer Kevin Carter a Pulitzer Prize in 1994. Carter also become notorious for sticking to the journalistic principle of being an observor and not getting involved -- he left after taking his photo and neither he, nor the New York Times, which first published the photo on 26 March 1993, knew what happened to her. (Looking at the photo, it's hard to imagine a pleasant ending.) A few months later after collecting his Pulitzer, Carter committed suicide, the violence he'd encountered in his life as a journalist, especially in South Africa, becoming too much to live with. "

Randles,
The picture you chose is another one that horrified me when I saw it about a year ago. I cried for days afterwards because this should not be happening anywhere in our world, let alone a child. This needs to get world wide attention....
I just looked closer at the picture. Is that a chain around the child's neck? Is he being shackled in that spot for the vulture to get? Oh, God.... :help:

I have to ask: how can anyone walk away from that young child's plight?

ktlight
12th October 2011, 13:41
I wonder if Avalon is ready to see what depleted uranium has done to the children who have since been born in Iraq?

Unified Serenity
12th October 2011, 15:40
There is a video on davidicke.com entitled The Evil That is NATO. It's on the front page. If you decide to look at it be for warned it is the most brutal 1:00 video I've ever seen. I watched it and was sicken.The horrors of innocent people caught in a senseless war. Our governments who promote war have got some heavy karma to payback......:tsk:

I checked the thread, and cannot bring myself to see this horror. I am too sensative today to cope with it. My heart weeps for the suffering and loss. My spirit cries out for true justice and change. We must stop this sick ride we are on, and we must stop playing the left right paradigm and simply say "NO". I feel guilty for not honoring the dead by seeing the cause, but in my spirit I will send them love and for the suffering I will send them healing.

=[Post Update]=


I wonder if Avalon is ready to see what depleted uranium has done to the children who have since been born in Iraq?

I have seen stuff in the past, but I cannot face it today. I don't know if it is just me, but it feels like their blood and suffering is crying out magnified. We are ready for change, but are we aware enough not to be idiots and accept tptw idea of change?

Lily de Cuir
13th October 2011, 10:02
Hi, it's Lily's son here...

Mum sometimes says things that are a bit exaggerated... I dont actually want to be a soldier in the army or nato.

She thought this because I have mentioned things about wanting to be a helicopter pilot, but the particular model I am interested in is the BH380 (blackhawk helicopter) but they only fly these in the R.A.A.F.

Mum showed me this video and I was so disgusted, that I swore and walked away.

I do go rifle hunting sometimes with my Dad but only for wild pests that roam our farm and destroy our crops. But I hate the idea of killing people. If I were to become a heli pilot, it would only be a low key job to transport people and supplies, not to shoot people. So I am not one of those suburban kids who listen to crappy rap songs and base their whole life around violence and guns.

(Lily de Cuir here, ....my son has written this, I've just corrected a few punctuation things, lol...pedant that I am. My son is 13.)

Cheers,:thank_you2:
Lily

ktlight
13th October 2011, 10:27
Thank you, Lily's son, for posting here. I'm glad your mum got it wrong.

What do you mean by 'wild pests'? I ask because I feel that those animals are just feeding and therefore maybe don't deserve to die. Perhaps you could find a deterrent.

Please don't feel that I am attacking you, or anything like that.

Lily de Cuir
13th October 2011, 10:47
Thank you, Lily's son, for posting here. I'm glad your mum got it wrong.

What do you mean by 'wild pests'? I ask because I feel that those animals are just feeding and therefore maybe don't deserve to die. Perhaps you could find a deterrent.

Please don't feel that I am attacking you, or anything like that.

Off Topic I know,

Hi ktlight, just responding for my son, he's in bed now.

Wild Pests are cane toads (imported from the UK in the 1800's, not native to Oz, big story worthy of another post entirely!), 'Mynor' birds, rats, bats, snakes that destroy crops and cattle.

Hell, I am not a country gal, I 'm a city slicker from Sydney. I'm just here by accident (on the northern rivers, Byron Bay area). LOL...

My son will be going to the farm tomorrow, so will not be able to answer your questions till next week.

I thank you on his behalf for your response. His first time on a forum!

Cheers,
Lily

Maia Gabrial
14th October 2011, 20:23
Anybody courageous enough to email this video to the UN and NATO just to show them their own handiwork? And to let them know that we KNOW they're lying to us....?

Maia Gabrial
14th October 2011, 20:41
Re: See what happend to this child...NATO & Rebels Crimes in Sirt
The answer to that my friend is only to be found from within...

WE have the strength and the courage and the Freedom to fight.... For all of our children.. And thanks to Avalon, we have a Platform, a Unity of Voice in which to keep Highlighted all of these UNHUMAN not INHUMAN acts against OUR Children with each and every Sunset and Sunrise...

Maybe the word "fight" isn't really what we need to do, regarding these things. There's fighting everywhere now....We're all so sick of it....IMO we can make it illegal to wage war ever again. If our representatives can't sit at a table and come to agreements then what good are they? It seems as though none of them want to take the time to come to peaceful agreements. They're not even trying.... And WHO suffers because of this? We do....

meeradas
15th October 2011, 09:05
I wonder if Avalon is ready to see what depleted uranium has done to the children who have since been born in Iraq?

No one will ever be "ready" for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnhOIVIXTRQ).
Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTRaf23TCUI) the whole movie for all capable of understanding german [movie has zero english subs, sorry].

ktlight
15th October 2011, 09:38
"The number of babies born with severe deformities and children developing leukaemia is rising dramatically in parts of Iraq.
US forces used depleted uranium weapons to attack the city, which locals say has left them with this devastating legacy.
One report even says the number of such illnesses in Falluja is higher than that recorded after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
See some of the deformed and desperately ill children, and meets some of the people battling against the odds to rebuild their lives, and their city.

HOW TO HELP:
Read about the work of the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons (ICBUW)

http://www.bandepleteduranium.org/

The ICBUW is petitioning for an immediate end to the use of uranium weapons and for medical treatment and compensation for depleted uranium victims. You can read more about its petition"

m5x9_rvgjxI

What you see in this video is very mild compared to what there is to see.

Fred Steeves
15th October 2011, 10:11
Thanks for linking that video ktlight. I think there's a question being asked of us, and it's getting more insistent. The question is: "IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?" As horrific as that video is, it's important for me to be reminded from time to time the depths of that choice.

Simonm
15th October 2011, 13:21
Hello Everyone,

I did not want to click on that vid. In fact, I don't click on anything now, if there is a warning. (I once watched a real life be-heading on the web and it freaked me out for months.)

Today I ummed and arred whether to look at it. I eventually did.

After some very serious consideration, I showed it to my young, teenage son. I've NEVER shown him anything like that before. I knew it would disturb him. I did so for a reason.

Why? Because he has a fantasy about being a soldier, in the army and going to war. I wanted to show him the truth. He watched it and it sickened him and rightly so.

Hopefully I've helped changed his mind about 'serving his country'.

Thank you ktlight...

Truth hurts alright....and we all need to read, see and hear the truth. However unpalatable, disturbing and uncomfortable as it may be.

Hopefully ktlight, this vid my young son saw tonight will not only save his life but those of others.

Thank you for your bravery in posting this.

Lily de Cuir

As an ex soldier, many years ago, who has done active service and seen some terrible things, I too have a son that wishes to follow in my footsteps. The conflict I was involved in was the liberation of a community that wished to remain free. As much as I would never turn my back on the soldiers sent to a foreign land for greed, I would never consider him to be sent to a place that does not warrant it.

Some call me hypocritical, but I call it my right to choose. I could argue that my conflict was the freedom and liberty of a community that wanted to remain in the free way of life. The present situation is purely for greed of the controlling elite. He understands my feelings and seems to have accepted it. It is very difficult with modern media pushing the rubbish, with things like Modern warfare and various films glamourising the situation.

ktlight
15th October 2011, 13:41
Simonm, The thing is that you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. So far, I have only ever seen OCCUPATION by USA and allies, which I do not consider war, although it amounts to the same destruction.

Lettherebelight
15th October 2011, 13:59
If someone shows me the truth of a situation, I have to thank that person. No, it's not pleasant in any way...but it's the real face of modern warfare.

So we're all asking what we can do about it...this is how we effect a change. Each of us have our weapon for fighting this kind of injustice. Now is the time to raise the broadsword of truth.

Swing it loudly. The pen is mightier than the sword.

Simonm
15th October 2011, 14:19
Simonm, The thing is that you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. So far, I have only ever seen OCCUPATION by USA and allies, which I do not consider war, although it amounts to the same destruction.

ktlight, believe me when I say that I DO live with some of the horrors I have seen. As much as I detest what is happening in the world at present, I still believe that at times there is a point when you do have to stand and fight for your life. This is, however, not one of those times. The greed of the ruling elite has cost UK over 350 dead and countless more wounded. As to the number of US servicefolk, the numbers keep rising. If I or a member of my family died in the defence of the country and our liberty then so be it, but do die for nothing as at present is horrendous. Once all the military pulls out of Afghanistan then the taliban will come back and the service men and women will have litterally died for nothing, except to line the pockets of the controllers. Luckily my son accepts that and understands my view.

Maia Gabrial
15th October 2011, 22:06
As long as Americans don't suffer the same atrocities here at home, they don't care. These are their "perceived" enemies as they've been told. That's the problem. They been TOLD this by Lame Stream Media who represent the bloodthirsty criminals in DC. People are not getting the true facts; so, how can they know who's the enemy? Then when the "enemy" seeks retribution, the DC criminals and LSM say "See what they're doing? Aren't you glad we attacked them first?" As long as they stay faceless, it's okay to destroy their lives and country. No guilt that way, right? Don't have to look at a child whose face is destroyed, right?

When TPTW are out of our lives for good, I hope one of the things that happens is that ALL WARS AND WEAPONS are made illegal. If only half the money spent on wars and weapons were spent on LIFE, we would have had a wonderful world.

I mourn for what we've never been allowed to have.... :tsk: :tsk: :tsk: