I dont think Religion should be discounted....

[AMystic3434]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

[ktlight]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

It seems to me that upon giving up the umbrella of an organised religion, deep religiosity is arrived at.

[scanner]

Yes but which one is the right one ?

[Lazlo]

All religions have the same basic message: Be a good person because there is a greater reality; and your actions and intentions matter.

Beyond the basics is the problem that religions have been co-opted by those who would have power over others.

There are many paths through the forest. If you really want to get to the other side, it is best to follow one path instead of trying them all.

All religions have a nugget of truth to them. The problem for us, today, is that the messages they relayed were intended for people at a given place and time. This means that we run a much higher risk of misinterpreting the message.

[laughs-last]

seek in religions for the mystic vein of gold in them all, when your bag is full run, before you have to pay in dogma, empty ritual and confusion. Ignore me, it's for the best, I have tried but I keep bumping into myself, or do I.

ONE LOVE, BIG HUGZ and THREE HAIL MARY'S :jester:

[Lifebringer]

WE do not disagree with what we have been told, but what was not told, and for that to be with held for 70 or better years, is unacceptable and leaves a NON-trustworthy leadership, who will not do what God has ordered that the books not be changed and all must be told, not what they manipulatively chose to lead the flock with, but ALL THE TRUTH.

All that lying and denying and making people think they are crazee for actually seeing ET and mocked or put in crazee houses.

I think God has heard our cry for truth and justice so WE the people, human people can make sound judgements, not some corporate resource play to lay down our families lives for profit.

Even the churches who watch people suffering in their churches, and just collect and build bigger stalls for the sheep they lead, and don't provide the true message of peace and love to and for the poor.

[another bob]

I think there is still something to religion.

Greetings, Friend!

If religion helps you to live with real integrity, then there is something to it. Just remember that it is you who grant reality to any belief, and so you are prior to any religion. The point here is, first find out who you are, then the rest falls into place naturally.

Blessings!

[Simonm]

I've never been religious. Only time I go to church is for hatches, matches and dispatches. I have my own belief that does not require me to attend any particular building and follow any particular path and I'm as happy with outlook. However, as much as I don't understand the need to worship does not mean that I would denigrate anyone's belief. Many of my friends belong to one denomination or another, so be it. That's their choice, they all know my stance. The only time I get a tad peeved is if some of them decide my life would be fuller belonging to their particular establishment. I usually tell them "Either shush or pi%% off, either way, I aint joining in" They usually shush :)

[ktlight]

Yes but which one is the right one ?

None, although each contains elements of truth. Perhaps you should explore them all.

As Lazio indicated, follow only one path, which should be your own and is when you go step by step.

[truthseekerdan]

Link to an older thread dealing with this subject: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3079-Spirituality-vs-Religion

Much love & wisdom

[Lettherebelight]

Yes but which one is the right one ?

That's a really good question, scanner!

According to the Vedas, the answer to your question is...your one!

Everyone has their own personal relationship to God that is unique to them. For some, they would rather ignore their relationship. For those that do want to pursue that relationship, whether they relate to God in an organized group or not, doesn't matter. The connection is the only thing that is important. Like a lightbulb...it lights up, when it's connected to the power source.

Everyone will find the way that is right for them.

[norman]

Only time I go to church is for hatches, matches and dispatches.



Haha...... I've come to regard religion as I regard a neighbor. I might not want to watch his TV program selections or decorate my home like his but I don't want to make an enemy of him either. It's good to get on with the neighbors.

As I come to know just how big the lies have been, I question all religion. My current thinking is that the Christian religion is a deliberate bastardisation ( and I mean that literally ). We have been subject to a deliberate attempt to cut us off from our true history, to make cultural and religious bastards of us. I suppose the next logical step is to use and abuse us in our orphanages.

Seriously, The Hebrew kabbalah and the Declining Egyptian wealth from a lost past are a historical Hornet's nest where I strongly suspect the 'switch' was made. I don't know who god is, I believe and have faith though. I don't trust the long line of vested interests to have told me anything like the real truth of what went on all that long time ago.

Even if you put an original scroll in front of me, I still don't trust it. I see the likely dynamic of that period as deeply untrustworthy.

[Humble Janitor]

I think that a person's religion should be their business and theirs alone. Faith is not a "Go to Heaven Free" card. It is a realization of the true self and the awareness of something greater than yourself.

[RMorgan]

Nice thread!

Well, if you want to know my opinion, I think religion is just a failed approach that we, humans, presumptuously created to artificially explain our unknown origins; To establish a fake notion of absolute truth, disregarding our intellectual abilities in exchange for a system of beliefs.

If we start from the point where we can say that knowledge is power, and an empowered person, a leader, isn´t in the position of answering "I don´t know", so religion was born, to keep powerful people powerful, and to put simple persons always in the position of ignorance.

A simple man asks himself about god and finds no answer...How could he find an answer for something we don´t know? But wait, that other guy says he knows the answer, so he must be special!!! Let´s listen to him, let´s obey him, let´s follow him!!! That´s how this whole thing was born....

Do you know what´s my religion? It´s called "Idontknowism". It´s pretty good for me.

[HORIZONS]

The kingdom (reality) of God is within you! Religion may or may not help you to find out this truth, but the point is to find out the truth within you - I call this a relationship with the Eternal. I think the Bible has been greatly misinterpreted and misrepresented, it has been used as a weapon of fear and control - yet this is not the spiritual message of the Bible - to find that out you must go within to the Mystical state. Religion can be used as a step towards a relationship, if you can escape the traps, but I would like to sumerise this with the words of Joel Goldsmith: "In the end the only relationship will be man's relationship with his Creator, the relationship of oneness, the relationship of attunement." Peace~

[Simonm]

At present I am reading the "Earth chronicles" by Zecharia Sitchin. If his interpretation of the Summerian texts are to be relied on then it goes a very long way to explaining many of the bibles stories. The Summerians were pioneers of so many things, including their belief in the "gods"

[Whiskey_Mystic]

There are many ways up the mountain. The only one wasting their time is the one running around the bottom of the mountain telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong.

I find it to be the supreme pinnacle of arrogance when I hear someone state "All religion is this" and "All religion is like that". I think to myself, wow this person must be the greatest scholar in the world to have so deeply studied every religion. And one would have to study them each deeply to come to such a conclusion. (Most of the people I hear this from are actually reacting to Abrahamic monotheism and have no experience of other traditions)

Every human soul is at a different point on the path. At some point, a particular religion might be just what they need. At another point, a different religion might help. And for some, they have no need of a structured religion at the point that they are on. None of these is a sign of weakness or that one is more advanced than another.

Arguing the value of a belief system or which one is better is like arguing about whether to open your egg at the top or at the bottom.

Good thread. Thanks.

[jackovesk]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

The Bible: Your right if you believe in Fairy Tales and Chinese Whispers..?

[lightning23]

:closed::closed:

[lightning23]

:closed::closed:

[Carmen]

Well, I was brought up as an Anglican. Religion is just fine. The trick is to go beyond religion. Not to be caught in it!

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Yes, but we, the real creators of our world, should stop hiding behind Gods that are separate from us and stop blaming some outside source for our wrong-doings! :D

Love!

I didn't create this world. I came later. Off topic, but it's important to be careful when we says "we".

[vibrations]

Off course there is a god. It's you.

Wv3ic6OOXns

[apokalypse]

important of religion is what you get out of it. in the Bible you might consider it as Fairy Tales but the message quite powerful like Love Your Neighbor as Yourself. i'm born in religious catholic family, i don't believe some of the stories the first day i got my hand on it when i was a kid and always questioning on the stories like the death of Jesus or Adam/Eve. One thing i got out of it is the message. when you talking about love, are you willing to Die for Love? sacrifice for other people?

[Samsara]

Love, kindness, compassion and tolerance are qualities common to all the great religions, and whether or not we follow any particular religious tradition, the benefits of love and kindness are obvious to anyone.
Dalai Lama

Those are exactly the thoughts that I could not put into words yesterday. The message was on my FB this morning.

We are One

[RedeZra]

the Bible is true and factual

and we are governed by people who serve fallen spirits

so we are brought up to believe the Bible is fiction

when it is all facts


and i got the evidences to back up my claim


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22804-Biblical-Archaeology

[markpierre]

Hey, all religions are founded on the basis of some individual's personal revelation. They all come from a True experience. Problem is always that it was HIS revelation and everyone thinks if they get together and look like they know what he was on about, that's the same. Or if they can please the right crowd, they're in without doing the work. I can't think of any religion that doesn't include a method of attaining that revelation. Strangely no one will follow the instructions. "Consider the lilies" eh? What's that supposed to mean? That's as incomprehensible as "be here now."
It is if you try to figure it out.

Are most modern expressions of the classic religions seeming more and more cultish these days. That's because someone got around to defining the term 'cult' and it all seemed all too familiar to a lot of us.

The Girl Scouts of America reveal a lot of the characteristics of a 'cult'. The United States Army displays all of them.

[ulli]

Hey, all religions are founded on the basis of some individual's personal revelation. They all come from a True experience. Problem is always that it was HIS revelation and everyone thinks if they get together and look like they know what he was on about, that's the same. Or if they can please the right crowd, they're in without doing the work. I can't think of any religion that doesn't include a method of attaining that revelation. Strangely no one will follow the instructions. "Consider the lilies" eh? What's that supposed to mean? That's as incomprehensible as "be here now."
It is if you try to figure it out.

Are most modern expressions of the classic religions seeming more and more cultish these days. That's because someone got around to defining the term 'cult' and it all seemed all too familiar to a lot of us.

The Girl Scouts of America reveal a lot of the characteristics of a 'cult'. The United States Army displays all of them.

Many good points here in this post. But one thing I don't comprehend:
What is incomprehensible about the "consider the lilies" comment?
And what is incomprehensible about "here and now"?
Both are calls for simply just BEING.

[jorr lundstrom]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

Well, if you do wrong in life, youre in trouble, if you need something you
call god to make you realize that, youre in deep trouble. In my opinion
New Aids is just christianity in disguise, so you can relax on that, the art
of shapeshifting isnt monopolized by Icke. LOL

And Ulli, Alice said: Jam yesterday and jam tomorrow, but never jam
today, thats the rule. Yes, this moment doesnt get the attention it
could get, if people just awakened to it instead of just believing they
are awake. ROFLOL

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/merlincat.jpg

I get along XLNT without religion, even without the religious programmings
I got during my childhood, when I couldnt defend myself. But I must say, it took
a great endavour to see those programmings as programmings. Initially I just
took them for granted and natural to life.Today I even sleep without a walking stick.

[ceetee9]

Religion is a tough subject to debate because it most always raises intense emotions in the debaters (on both sides of the issue) and when people start arguing from an emotional level rather than an rational intellectual level the debate is lost. However, my personal view on religion is that if it satisfies a need within you and it causes no harm to others then it is fine--for you.

I gave up on religion a long time ago. My disillusionment with religion started when my Sunday school teacher would say "you just have to have faith" whenever she could not answer my questions. Later when I went to a Catholic bishop to see if my fiancee and I could get married in a Catholic church (my wife-to-be was Catholic and I was a divorced Methodist), we both had to fill out a 30+ page questionnaire of which many pages were of a very intimate sexual nature, but when he told me if I paid $300 for "administrative fees" to send the information to a higher authority (a Bishop in Chicago I believe) he could probably get our wedding blessed, I told him to kiss off. So when I couple those things with other research I've done on religions and the fact that more people have been killed and families destroyed because of religious beliefs than any other single source of disagreements, it made no sense to me to follow any religious faith.

Religions were designed to control the masses just as governments are. While I don't claim to know the answers to life, I know that religious leaders don't know the answers anymore than I do. You don't need religion to believe in a Creator or to behave in a loving, compassionate, caring or moral and ethical manner and I'm not willing to abdicate my responsibility to search for the truth myself.

As for those who claim there is an element of truth in all religions I say, of course there is. Like all manipulative organizations, how could they possibly get anyone to follow them if there wasn't something for you to hold onto?

[scanner]

Yes but which one is the right one ?

None, although each contains elements of truth. Perhaps you should explore them all.

As Lazio indicated, follow only one path, which should be your own and is when you go step by step.I have and they all lie, or omit from their bibles info that would distroy their control over you . I'm currently investigating the Jehovah witnesses and found out that's a massive lie. Lots of ppl follow them though. I must be the only person who actually invite them in for a chat , they move the goal post to suit themselves and they're persistant. NEXT

[RedeZra]

You don't need religion to believe in a Creator or to behave in a loving, compassionate, caring or moral and ethical manner and I'm not willing to abdicate my responsibility to search for the truth myself.


yes we don't need religion but a heart to practise compassion


religion is either in the the realm of the supernatural or superstition

if it is superstition then we can ignore it

but if it is supernatural then it can teach us something which our senses can't perceive


i guess many of us have had supernatural experiences and they are impossible to explain away with reason

so it seems religion serves a purpose even though some men in service fall short of the religious message which they preach


i believe we will always have religion as there is something supernatural real beyond our senses

[ulli]

ceetee9
Religions were designed to control the masses just as governments are.

I would say that religions were designed to unite the masses,
while governments were designed to serve the masses.

Yet the opposite is now the case.
It's because we have arrived at a moment in history where change must come.
Time has a tendency to turn a thing back on itself as it moves in circular, or rather, spiraling fashion.

That's where reformations and revolutions come in, and it's happening, folks.
All part of a divine plan.
A worldwide spirituality will evolve into a new religion- one flock, (humanity) and one shepherd (Source)
and a governing legislature, elected by the people, that has the interests of all the people of the world at heart.
Ulli, who is trusting the process.

[Lettherebelight]

I'm with Tecumseh, Native American hero of the 18th century...

"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life."

http://wontolla.homepage.t-online.de/wontolla/Tecumseh.JPG

[RedeZra]

A worldwide spirituality will evolve into a new religion- one flock, (humanity) and one shepherd (Source)


i believe this is what the NWO is about

to unite the people under one shepherd


it's just that i don't have high hopes about this NWO shepherd

so i rather go with the good old Shepherd ; )

[ulli]

A worldwide spirituality will evolve into a new religion- one flock, (humanity) and one shepherd (Source)


i believe this is what the NWO is about

to unite the people under one shepherd


it's just that i don't have high hopes about this NWO shepherd

so i rather go with the good old Shepherd ; )

God is using the NWO for His plan.
First establish the infrastructure, then bring in the spirit.
Those being used in such a manner will of course get a huge shock
when their vision turned out to be defective.
But then again, maybe not.
When they see the light they might be glad to give up their old stress-ridden path.

[ulli]

Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity.

Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor,
and look upon him with a bright and friendly face.

Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich,
an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge.

Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech.
Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men.

Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful,
a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression.

Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts.

Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive.

Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. ~Baha'u'llah

From the Bahai holy writings.
Even if this was channeled by someone who was mind-controlled,
I still find nothing wrong with this text.
We just have to keep an eye on the beaurocrats.

[RedeZra]

God is using the NWO for His plan.
First establish the infrastructure, then bring in the spirit.


it sounds sneaky

but then again i can't read God like an open book ; )

[ulli]

God is using the NWO for His plan.
First establish the infrastructure, then bring in the spirit.


it sounds sneaky

but then again i can't read God like an open book ; )

Sneaky is God's middle name.

[ktlight]

God is an entity/energy full completely of love. No other adjectives needed really, certainly has no name(s).

[shamanseeker]

The way I see it is that there is a difference between "spirituality" and "religion". I used to go to church regularly and was very religious but then realized that being religious, learning dogma and doctrine were not enough and I stopped frequenting the church. I think a lot of people go through the church thing (and the new age thing) before waking up and starting to think about spirituality. When I read David Icke I knew he was talking sense because of what I had been taught in the church. I could see quite clearly how they had really being manipulating us. Of course, all religions have some truth in what they teach but they are led by people who are betraying and deceiving us. We must, however, be careful and treat religious people with respect: they are often just on their journey towards awakening. I dabble a bit in numerology (am NOT an expert) and No. 7 represents spirituality, but also our connection with Mother Earth. If someone doesn't have a 7 in their name, it means they are easily led by people who tell them what to believe in because they lack spiritual stability. I don't have a 7 in my name and it took me a long time before I realized that I couldn't rely on other people to tell me what I should believe in. If you look at the indios tribes of South America, the aborigines of Australia the Native Americans, etc. they usually have a spiritual outlook on life, not a religious one and a connection with, and respect for, Mother Earth is very important to them. The churches, synogogues and mosques have elements in them that are extremely dangerous. We should be very wary.

[D-Day]

The way I see it, organised religion is like a festering boil on the @rse of humanity.

It has plagued us for centuries and I personally feel it is time for us to let it go.

Honestly, it has been the root cause behind so much of the pain, death, suffering, persecution and inequality that human beings have endured and inflicted upon one another since the dawn of civilization.

It is an aspect of our history and culture that I would prefer to forget, and one that I personally feel we would have been much better off without.

If religions did not exist in our society (ever!) would we still have the capacity and/or inclination to strive for a deeper understanding of our own consciousness and connectedness with the unknown/unexplainable forces that seemingly exist within our universe? I think so.

Did we truly need to immerse ourselves in a society that has been heavily influenced by religion in order to propagate a sense of spirituality that (IMO) already existed innately within each and every one of us from birth? I doubt it.

Would we have separated/segregated ourselves from one another (like we have done) if it wasn't for the wide-reaching influence of religions, that for over 2000 years now, have actively promoted fear of and/or hatred towards those who hold differing religious beliefs to themselves? At the very lest I would suggest not to the same extent.

If you ask me, there's no reason for any of us to relinquish our own personal power by seeking out biased, subjective information from unverifiable sources when it is easily accessible and readily available if we are prepared to delve a little deeper and discover our own truth, for ourselves.

I believe there is a universal (God) consciousness, I believe it because I feel it in every fibre of my being and in everything that I perceive around me. I believe it because I have experienced it and connected with it personally, not because I was told about it by someone else.

I have no need or desire to be taught about this through religious texts/doctrines that have been deliberately altered by those who seek to control and manipulate us in order to further their own agendas of power and control over humanity.

I believe the same people have sought to deceive us from the beginning, by hiding the truth about who and what we truly are.

I refuse to become indoctrinated by their teachings for it is my belief that they do not truly have our best interests at heart.

Therefore, I have become my own teacher.

The sooner people realise that they are intrinsically and infinitely connected to everything around them (God), the sooner we can move past the old, outdated and obsolete aspect of our society that we call RELIGION.

The way I see it, we simply don't need it... never have... and never will!

[jorr lundstrom]

The druids invited the christian priests to pray by their side. This was all well
until the christians started to slaughter the druids. This pattern have since
been repeated all over the world. Do you think we can learn something from
this. The abrahamic religions have preached the repression of women. the
worthlessness of nature and the whole planet. Its okey to destroy everything in
the physical world. If we dont get intellectually lazy, but follow this way of reason
to its end. To wot do you think it will take us and the planet?


Old living Druid
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/druid1.jpg

If you dont applaud the psychopatic god in space and his blind followers, take care.

[truthseekerdan]

Most religions preach love, and yet, their purpose is to confuse and misinform people for two reasons: money and the power of manipulating people. Their tool is frequently fear, which they induce to get control. For example, the Catholic Church removed reincarnation from the Bible and included Satan, so they could murder and torture people in the name of God and love, apparently 'fighting' Satan. Most wars are a direct consequence of religious 'brainwashing'.

All religions, cults, sects etc. are 'truly deceiving'. They have been created after great men (Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc.) died, by people with only 2 things in mind: 'money and power'. Religions are a 'true curse' on Earth, because they are the source of spiritual misinformation. They constipate people with fear, propaganda and rituals to the point that people stop thinking and follow the flock.

When you seek true love you do not go to a prostitute. When you truly seek God, you do not go to an institution that makes business by claiming to represent God. Do you think that God needs a proxy?
The most beautiful temple of man is within and has always been. To reach it you should meditate, and then concentrate (pray), which is different, although the two are usually confused by teachers. We should grow up, drop ridiculous rituals and stop following the flock, lead by those who take advantage of us.

The best physicists on Earth agree that everything material is just vibration, and it is actually temporary. The real stuff is our consciousness. People need a lot of effort to comprehend the Reality of the Universe. The evidence is overwhelming. We have eyes - but do we see?
There is no problem with duality: we are really eternal light beings undergoing lessons in physical bodies. The sole purpose of our physical existence is spiritual development. Anything that happens around us is a part of the lesson.

Our learning tool is our free will. We should use it to make a continuous series of choices in our life and watch their consequences. The aim is to understand the effects of our choices. If we mess up the lesson (don't learn) then we have to repeat the lesson in the next lifetime. If we are absolutely stubborn and do not want to learn, we eventually get destroyed and re-cycled as everything in nature.

"The Kingdom of God is within you" as it says in the Bible, which once upon a time contained lots of other good information. Unfortunately, many essential things were removed by priests who feared that people might become enlightened, fully independent and impossible to brainwash and control. Just imagine what would happen if people discovered that God doesn't need a proxy.

Continued here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3079-Spirituality-vs-Religion

[RedeZra]

The druids invited the christian priests to pray by their side. This was all well
until the christians started to slaughter the druids.

the Roman conquest of Gaul and the British Isles took place even before Jesus Christ was born

so to blame Christianity for the Druidic decline is at best a simple mistake


besides when you look into the Christianisation of many nations you will notice that it is often the King of the nation or one in his line who is in the forefront of the Christianisation of the nation

and not some external enemy ; )

[DeDukshyn]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

Its not about what you do (that's pretty subjective) it is about what you create - we are produced in his image which means we have powers of creation and capacity for love. When you feel fear, anger, hatred, sorrow, worry - you are creating those low frequency energies and adding them to the collective. If you feel love, joy, etc you are creating those and adding that. If you create via your job, interactions, art, or whatever a way to transfer the higher frequency feelings then you are also creating on this level - also adding to the collective but more directly. These are the considerations we should have - not "right" or "wrong" - those are pretty hard to nail down and cause confusion and often more pain and guilt - which are the wrong creations.

In my research It's come to me that if you take many religions and take what is common you get a pretty good set of information. Seeking likeness as opposed to separateness is far more rewarding, I have found. My two cents ;)

[RedeZra]

For example, the Catholic Church removed reincarnation from the Bible and included Satan,

Satan is very real Mara is very real Ahriman is very real




so they could murder and torture people in the name of God and love, apparently 'fighting' Satan. Most wars are a direct consequence of religious 'brainwashing'.


this is just regurgitating NWO propaganda

as most wars are designed by Satan or Mara or Ahriman if you want

whom the NWO serve

[DeDukshyn]

For example, the Catholic Church removed reincarnation from the Bible and included Satan,

Satan is very real Mara is very real Ahriman is very real




so they could murder and torture people in the name of God and love, apparently 'fighting' Satan. Most wars are a direct consequence of religious 'brainwashing'.


this is just regurgitating NWO propaganda

as most wars are designed by Satan or Mara or Ahriman if you want

whom the NWO serve

But be careful. Satan is the attention you give him. Without our belief, he is powerless over us.

[RedeZra]

But be careful. Satan is the attention you give him. Without our belief, he is powerless over us.

sure the saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" doesn't exactly fit here

but not knowing the reality of an enemy is nothing but neglect and a recipe for ruin

[nomadguy]

Is it religion that "has something to it"?
Or is it our history that you seek? And you may indeed be knocking on the right door.

[Camilo]

All religions are as corrupt and dirty as all the political parties, and have done as much or more wrong to humanity. Both were created by man. Religions have nothing to with GOD, as GOD never would agree with lies, greed, power, corruption or manipulation.

[sumkat]

re:i don't think religion should be discounted..........well,..i don't think it should be marked up either,maybe reduced for a going out of business sale,or,..buy one get one

[58andfixed]

Organized Religion is separate and distinct from The Bible, and both of which are separate and distinct from God.

The FACT that The Bible is full of errors and contradictions is an issue that only contributes to problems with both Organized Religions and God.

One of the earlier known & public discoverers of the textual problems in "The Bible" was John Mill (c. 1645 – 23 June 1707) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mill

"Mill's work noted over 30,000 discrepancies between some 100 extant New Testament manuscripts."

Many other researchers have covered this territory in much more detail, and current author Bart Ehrman is but one of a long stream:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo

Bart Erhman lecture of one his books "Misquoting Jesus."

For every ignorant denial offering a perfect Bible as being the only source of 'truth' on this Planet, I shall take extra time in a very busy day to reference FACTS that have stated otherwise so numerously as to place the idea of a 'perfect Bible' right up there next to Santa Clause.

Also I am NOT saying that there isn't some truths in a Bible, just as I also suggest that there are truths to be found in 'scriptures' from many sources.

Organized Religion of the Christian sort has experimented for some 1,700 years with the idea that "Unity" can be created out of "Uniformity" [conformity, doctrine, dogma .. what-have-you. I'm not here to 'nail down' ideas with semantics, simply an 'in-a-nutshell' as I have discovered it via quickie synopsis in one post here on PA.]

With this one "The Bible" the one major belief system has self-divided, according to apologetic writing, into over 33,000 denominations.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm

To me this is plenty evidence of the uselessness of Organized Religion, and the tool of conformity through uniformity, as being one of the essential elements that needs to be removed to move forward in history where everyone on this Planet has an equal degree of respect.

Disparaging as it seems I am of both The Bible and Organized Religion, both of their faults have no bearing on the validity [or lack of validity for those that bend that way] for The Source.

I have great respect for all great teachers, Jesus being one of them, and firmly believe in a Creator - The Source of all that is.

I have read & studied more than one Bible, participated in the Organized Religions of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, and have been swooned by just about any Christian sect that I can think of. Every one of them want me in their congregation, until they discover the clarity and commitment I have against Organized Religion.

For those missing pieces of history of The United Kingdom, one of them might be of Boudica, around 61 AD, and it was the Romans that quenched that uprising that is still being discovered just recently. Makes Joan of Arc appear to be a minor sit-in by comparison, but it seems like certain people would like to hide these kind of uprisings from the pages of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Queen_Boudica_by_John_Opie.jpg/220px-Queen_Boudica_by_John_Opie.jpg

- 58

[Tony]

We all want to be healthy sane human beings. Anything that is of helps us to achieve that will be of benefit. Depending on the individual temperament that something could be Theist, non-Theist or something in between. From time to time we may even move from one to another.

Being fixated or dogmatic can put a an obstacle in the way of genuine experience. Rules can keep you one on the straight and narrow. It is beneficial to have a platform to work from - a system that satisfies.

The point is that there may come a time when that system does not satisfy. It may then be
time look deeper or to move on. Nothing is fixed.

These intuitive feelings we have are relevant.


Tony

[jorr lundstrom]

RedeZra wrote:

the Roman conquest of Gaul and the British Isles took place even before Jesus Christ was born

so to blame Christianity for the Druidic decline is at best a simple mistake

I wrote the christian priests, not the roman conquerors. When the romans conquered

Britain they were not christian yet. So I stick to the idea of blaming christianity

for the druidic decline.

[Sirius White]

All religions were founded on core truths, which over-time, due to human ignorance, greed, corruption and power became but facsimiles of their original intent and meaning. Within EVERY single religion lies deep core truths that are NOT mutually exclusive from one another. It is the separation of culture and division between people that over time changed the rituals and traditions which were once unified. This is a sort of holographic reflection of the division that happened in the mass consciousness of humanity as they went through the dramatic and bloody history until where we are at today.

It is human nature to want "sure fire" answers to everything. And thus they become vehicles for ignorance. Why pray to god every day to give you a nicer house when you can experience God right now, in this moment in the house you currently live?

[jorr lundstrom]

Sirius White wrote:

Why pray to god every day to give you a nicer house when you can
experience God right now, in this moment in the house you currently live?

I would prefer the expression divinity, but I just love this kind of statements.

[RedeZra]

I wrote the christian priests, not the roman conquerors. When the romans conquered

Britain they were not christian yet. So I stick to the idea of blaming christianity

for the druidic decline.

the Roman conquest was not a Christian campaign ; )

[DeDukshyn]

But be careful. Satan is the attention you give him. Without our belief, he is powerless over us.

sure the saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" doesn't exactly fit here

but not knowing the reality of an enemy is nothing but neglect and a recipe for ruin

You don't need to know him or regard him in any way to give off light. That's the beauty of humanity - we are creators; we can create whatever we desire free of outside influence if we so choose (granted, many of us have forgotten how to "choose" properly) - he is a leechor - he feeds off our negative creations - pain, sorrow, hate, anger, pain, revenge - all the low frequency energy we create is our gift to him. A bit like the Native Indian (Cherokee I think) story about The Two Wolves - look it up if you don't know it - it's a gem ;)

[RedeZra]

there is bad people in religions and there is good people in governments

but as governments govern us i am mostly concerned with organized governments and not organized religions


it is the character of the people inhabiting the institutions that make good or bad of an organisation

we can easily choose not to be a part of organized religion but we can hardly choose not to be a part of organized government


the State is too big and strong and the Church is too split and weak to stand up to the State

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I'm pointing out again that many of you are focusing on your experience with Abrahamic monotheism, which does not encompass all religious traditions by any means. You are painting all religions with a broad brush based on your limited experience and limited study. If you are going to say "all religion is this" or "all religion is that" please be qualified to make such a statement. As a Taoist, I find this very frustrating, not to mention ignorant.

[RedeZra]

You don't need to know him or regard him in any way to give off light.


right but you have to know that there is a bad wolfe out there ; )

[noprophet]

a better understanding of scriptural reading can be gained from reading this: http://paulproblem.faithweb.com/pardes.htm

[DeDukshyn]

You don't need to know him or regard him in any way to give off light.


right but you have to know that there is a bad wolfe out there ; )

I understand how he works - yes. When one fully understands him he becomes merely a mechanical influence or the force that he is. He is merely the void filled by the illusion seperateness - therefore an illusion himself - not the personified being we all make him out to be - but then again we create our own interpretation of him. He needs to be sustained, whereas the Creator is omnipotent.

What one has to know is how not to feed him ;-) Some people have that drive built in; most, not so.
Our Creator feeds our higher self (no matter how much we ignore it - it is always there for us anytime we learn to choose it), our higher self is lost to us (conditioned out of us rather) in the seperateness of this low frequency realm, we replace that interpreted void with ego and our ego feeds Satan via the low frequency creations you (we) create with it. It's merely a mathematical algorithm. I have a reference post to find to add to this: I'll go find it then edit this post.

EDIT: Here is a post that I feel is relevant to this one as it describes how creating high and low frequency creations work and the effect it has. Every service to self creation will undoubtedly be a low frequency creation thus will feed Satan. LINK HERE (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?32530-Aliens-or-Demons.&p=332946&viewfull=1#post332946) (Last paragraph in my post there)

And to add, religion often talks about "good" and "bad" - not a good evaluation system - the frequency of what you create is a much much better evaluation method and is much less subjective and easier to see how it relates to Satan and our collective - it's helped me out much!

Good discussion ;)

[DeDukshyn]

This thread must have gotten merged with another at some point ... interesting and slightly confusing ...

[shamanseeker]

The druids invited the christian priests to pray by their side. This was all well
until the christians started to slaughter the druids.

the Roman conquest of Gaul and the British Isles took place even before Jesus Christ was born

so to blame Christianity for the Druidic decline is at best a simple mistake


besides when you look into the Christianisation of many nations you will notice that it is often the King of the nation or one in his line who is in the forefront of Christianisation of the nation

and not some external enemy ; )

Hi, you are forgetting that the official Christian religion (not what the real Jesus or Yeshua taught) is based on what the ancient Romans believed in, the Egyptians and going back to Babylon! The Christian church systematically milked shamans (see Credo Mutwa for Africa, Hernan Huarache Mamani for S. America) in order to learn from them and then slaughtered them all over the world!

[Mu2143]

I think there is still something to religion. I dont think it should be taken likely. I think its possible there still is a god and that if we do wrong with our life that it is possible that we will be in a lot of trouble. Sure we have some proof that aliens could have visited earth and in alot of the ancient text which talk about gods which could be the aliens. But why should we discount the bible it is also an ancient text and why shouldnt it be taken for what it is saying. It seems sometimes that people who believe in New Age and spirituality would brush off religion. But I dont think its a wise thing to do. It still could be true.

This interesting how you say that Newage is spiritualty and the Bible is Religion, when it is the other way around.
The problem is that most people who follow the Bible have become Religious, that it is what is confusing people to think it is.

All I can say is that if your really want to change, that it is very hard to walk that path and I don't have a Bible . What I do is find does who are really walk there talk. I listen if they speak from there hearts not there minds, but that is my gift for discernment.
Alot of people talk ,but there not walking it.
There pretending, you can't hide this from god. What I am tring to say is.... you can not be of this world and love god. You will be disliked by the people who love this world and that is a good sign your on your way!!!

Example of religion (God loves you and he wants your money) =)

[markpierre]

I'm pointing out again that many of you are focusing on your experience with Abrahamic monotheism, which does not encompass all religious traditions by any means. You are painting all religions with a broad brush based on your limited experience and limited study. If you are going to say "all religion is this" or "all religion is that" please be qualified to make such a statement. As a Taoist, I find this very frustrating, not to mention ignorant.

I think all anyone can do is respond from their own experience. And from my own experiences, I don't even regard Taoism as a religion. I suppose I should. It just always seemed like a big step up from dogmatic practices.

This is interrelating; I was told once by Spirit that Taoism was the closest thing to the teachings of Jesus that still exists. Well I thought it was interesting anyway. I can't guarantee that's true, but I can vouch for the source. Made sense at the time.

[Timmoth]

Religion is spirituality with trainer wheels.

[panopticon]

I'm pointing out again that many of you are focusing on your experience with Abrahamic monotheism, which does not encompass all religious traditions by any means. You are painting all religions with a broad brush based on your limited experience and limited study. If you are going to say "all religion is this" or "all religion is that" please be qualified to make such a statement. As a Taoist, I find this very frustrating, not to mention ignorant.
I think all anyone can do is respond from their own experience. And from my own experiences, I don't even regard Taoism as a religion. I suppose I should. It just always seemed like a big step up from dogmatic practices.

G'day All,

I agree with you Whiskey_Mystic.
Most people are focused within the confines of the dogma they adopt or have been socialised into. Sometimes I feel it's like an argument between colour blind people about the different shades of grey. I'm no different of course and only mention it to point out that we are all confined by our understandings and internalised belief structures.

Markpierre, sometimes I refer to myself as a Daoist (or Taoist if you prefer) and when I do I am referring to the philosophical tradition of Daoism as opposed to the religious belief (which is the folk tradition that from my perspective encompasses ancestor worship, polytheism etc). The philosophical tradition of Daoism has a long lineage and the first collected work is usually attributed to Lao-tze (the daodejing (http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm) sometimes spelt "Tao Te Ching" or called "Laozi" that taoism.net (http://www.taoism.net/supplement/history.htm) reports today is 'the second most translated book after the bible').

There are many resources available on the web for those who are interested and I would suggest taoism.net (http://www.taoism.net) as a possible starting point (selected after a search for an introduction site for this post).

I like these stories so thought I'd link to them incase anyone was interested:

The Vinegar Tasters (http://www.taoism.net/sanctuary/books/vintaste.htm) (this is an old favourite of mine from 'The Tao Of Pooh'),
Dream Within A Dream (http://www.taoism.net/chuang/dream.htm),
The Horse Lover (http://www.taoism.net/living/2010/201003.htm), and
Only a Bowl of Rice (http://www.taoism.net/living/2008/200807.htm).

Alan Watts spoke at length about Daoism and I enjoy listening to his recordings from the 60's and early 70's.

If anyone is interested the introduction text I normally suggest is Benjamin Hoff's 'The Tao Of Pooh (http://thetaoofpooh.com/The_Tao_of_Pooh/Home.html)' as it is easy to understand and easy reading. I once had a bloke get all upset because I'd suggested a "childrens book" and the irony of that wasn't lost on me!

Anyway I'll leave with an Alan Watts audio that many here are more than likely familiar with but it has some of my favourite Daoist stories (if impatient go to the 32 minute mark for two of my favourites 'Lieh-tzu and the Sage' and 'the farmer who said "maybe"'):

c_Wjp9ISIVc
'Why this ceaseless coming and going?' :dance3:

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[scotusa]

Yes but which one is the right one ?

The Roman Catholic Church has hi-jacked Christianity
The Islamic Jihads have hi-jacked Islam
and the Khazarian Ashkenazi Zionist Jews have hi-jacked Judaism

Moral of the story, don't believe a word of any of their "truths"

Perhaps the Zionist Rothschilds et al will destroy the Jewish state in WWIII (Semites Jews as well) as Hitler did to Germany in WWII (Khazarian Jews as well).
Nice scam Lord Rothschild pulled against the British Government in May 1948 creating a homeland for a people whose ancestoral land is 800 miles away in the Caucus Georgia area (the old Khazar kingdom). Approx 95% of todays Jews worldwide are Khazarian bloodline based and have no Semitic bloodline connection (the 12 tribes of Judea). Not that there's anything wrong with that, except for that 1% bankers factor.

Be very careful of the man behind the screen.

[markpierre]

[/QUOTE]

Markpierre, sometimes I refer to myself as a Daoist (or Taoist if you prefer) and when I do I am referring to the philosophical tradition of Daoism as opposed to the religious belief (which is the folk tradition that from my perspective encompasses ancestor worship, polytheism etc). The philosophical tradition of Daoism has a long lineage and the first collected work is usually attributed to Lao-tze (the daodejing (http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm) sometimes spelt "Tao Te Ching" or called "Laozi" that taoism.net (http://www.taoism.net/supplement/history.htm) reports today is 'the second most translated book after the bible').

[/QUOTE]

Thank mate. The lineage isn't all that interesting to me, but the sentiment is.

When I was a kid (maybe 14 or 15) I was with my dad in his basement hideout and picking up books he had in a box. I picked out "The Way of Zen" by Watts, and asked him about it. It seemed out of place with the books on sailing and carpentry and grizzly bear adventure stories. But it was my first encounter with Eastern thought. I asked him about it and he said to paraphrase, "well I don't know much about it, but I think a Buddhist would make a pretty good neighbor". That's not to blur the distinction between Taoism and Buddhism. It's pretty glaring. I don't notice any similarities to be honest.

He surprised me a little when he gave it to me, and I read it. My first taste of Eastern thought was a revelation. All I knew about religion was memorizing Bible passages to please other people and being told that anyone who wasn't a Christian was going to be judged and sent to Hell. So I had this not very loving God looking over my shoulder during my formative years. Thanks very much. Seriously, this was a culture that considered anything the least different from their insular midwest American norm to be the work of the devil. This is the mid sixties though, the superficial definition of what's acceptable seems to change along with the fashions.

People tend to forget or ignore the fact that Christianity developed as a complete value system from the teaching of Paul, in opposition to what Jesus taught, which was simply but importantly, personal transformation. If a Christian isolated the teachings of Jesus from the teachings of the church, he would first off; be confounded. And then discover a specific outline of a method to achieve what Jesus did. 'Resurrection' or awakening or transformation or rebirth, whatever you want to call it. 'Believe what I'm telling you' got somehow perverted into 'make a god out of me'. Quite in contrast to what he said. Well, that's what people do when they don't want to follow instructions. And then when the Master is gone you're stuck with the hierarchy that takes over. Fair enough.

Like in anything, similar vibrations seek each other out. Very compressed minds tend to form very large cadres, I suppose because there's always been a predominance of very compressed minds. Its the same with every ideology. The advantage I suppose, is that if you don't osculate at that frequency you get spun out of those scenarios pretty quickly.
You get what you need. That, or you do a lot of drugs.

[truthseekerdan]

Comparing religion and true spirituality - Eckhart Tolle
e8LuFUJvcOU

[iGnoramus_33]

"All religions are precious jewels on the golden string of Divinity."

- Samael Aun Weor

[Cidersomerset]

Religion...............UM.....I went to a Roman catholic school from the age of 4yrs to 7yrs. Then forced my parents to switch me to a state school.....

Dave Allen summed up my experiance it was not a convent , but a school , but the nunns scared me..

pgbkdrOl3sw

Religion is a personal thing , and if you are happy in a particular belief fine..

I personally can't believe there is a god in the sence of a all knowing being who created the earth.....Fire & Brimstone etc..

Whether there is a creative conciousness out in the universe and we are connected to that, has more appeal to me but who knows....

I like the concept we are all individual 'gods' experiancing a contrast before assending back into our non-physical self.......Steve

[RedeZra]

Hi, you are forgetting that the official Christian religion (not what the real Jesus or Yeshua taught) is based on what the ancient Romans believed in, the Egyptians and going back to Babylon!

i do not see the Christian religion as a continuation of the Roman religion

but the major Roman midwinter festival on the winter solstice was incorporated into Christianity as Christmas

perhaps to ease the transition from the Roman religion to the Christian religion

[pyriel]

Interesting I come across this today after watching the movie "Stigmata" last night. I also looked up a part of the movie on youtube. Then I come to avalon forums and see a thread of the "lord's prayer in orignal aramic language" and now this one.. Hmmm, apparently there is something I need to find and/or read or something.. now to see if I can figure it out.

The second video has the last min. or so of the first video in it at the end.(the first part where the 2 meet is cut out in second video)

tScLoKPI25Q



nehL1bmGjYo

[shamanseeker]

Hi, you are forgetting that the official Christian religion (not what the real Jesus or Yeshua taught) is based on what the ancient Romans believed in, the Egyptians and going back to Babylon!

i do not see the Christian religion as a continuation of the Roman religion

but the major Roman midwinter festival on the winter solstice was incorporated into Christianity as Christmas

perhaps to ease the transition from the Roman religion to the Christian religion

The Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. all had a male divinity (God the Father figure), a female deity (The Mary figure often standing on a crescent moon with a halo of stars around her head) and the baby (the Jesus figure). There are illustrations of them and if you saw them you would swear they came from the Christian era when in fact they date to long before that. The baby lived to 33 and was killed on a tree, he then rose after three days! You find this story everywhere. You should go to David Icke's site: you'll find it there. The real Jesus, or Yeshua was an enlightened person, similar to Buddha. The authorities in all of the 'great' civilizations worshipped this trinity! I know it's a shock if you haven't heard it before but there is proof.

[RedeZra]

The Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. all had a male divinity (God the Father figure), a female deity (The Mary figure often standing on a crescent moon with a halo of stars around her head) and the baby (the Jesus figure). There are illustrations of them and if you saw them you would swear they came from the Christian era when in fact they date to long before that. The baby lived to 33 and was killed on a tree, he then rose after three days!

i know the Zeitgeist or the spirit of our times tries to compare Christianity with Mystery Babylon Egypt and Rome

but Christianity has it's history in the Old Testament where YHWH was against the idol or lesser spirit worship of these mystery religions

and Jesus in the Bible speaks about fallen angels devils and demons as a matter of fact


so to compare Christianity with Mystery Babylon must be a trick of the devil in order to confuse people


just look to Bohemian Grove or Skull and Bones to know who the elite serve

they serve the idols or the lesser spirits of Mystery Babylon Egypt and Rome

and they are all enemies to Christ Christianity and Humanity

[58andfixed]

Thank goodness the conscience of the Church is clean as snow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Historians distinguish four different manifestations of the Inquisition:

1.the Medieval Inquisition (1231–16th century)
2.the Spanish Inquisition (1478–1834)
3.the Portuguese Inquisition (1536–1821)
4.the Roman Inquisition (1542 – c. 1860)

"Legal basis for some inquisitorial activity came from Pope Innocent IV's papal bull Ad extirpanda of 1252, which authorized and regulated the use of torture in investigating heresy."

****

There is too much in common between hierarchal power structures of Organized Religion, Military, Media, Political and financial structures, to think that we can change how we treat one another without closely examining the commonality of bowing to supposed authority.

BTW, I'm wondering if the purpose of dragging the same opinion over & over again doesn't have more to do with "Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING', " than it has to do with any validity to your opinionated perspective ?

http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2011/04/cointelpro-techniques-for-dilution-misdirection-and-control-of-an-internet-forum.html


- 58

[Raven]

If we keep going within and keep gently breathing into our own hearts (this is full time 'work') then we will get our own mojo working and then no one will have anything to offer us that would make us give our power away.....

[RedeZra]

Thank goodness the conscience of the Church is clean as snow.



i didn't say that... but if you insist ; )


i was replying to a post by Shamanseeker who quoted and addressed me

in which he shared the Zeitgeist view about Christianity being the Egyptian religion in disguise

i made an argument to show that this Zeitgeist idea is at best questionable


and yes it's just my opinion as i'm not God... yet ; )

[58andfixed]

Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist perspective may be questionable, however the historical track record of Organized Religion leaves little wiggle room for an argument of equality [promise made and not delivered upon] among people for a personal religious experience.

Unity through uniformity has had enough time to prove it's worthlessness.

The more coercive the conformity, the more violent the blow-back.

There is a whole gaggle of people who see that there is little room for Organized Religion in civilization's future, especially as one of the largest world social movements begin to recognize that the lack of contestability through a hierarchal structure is precisely what gets in the way of anything approaching a sustainable solution, be it in politics, economics, finance, health, welfare, media and I'm sure I'm missing some areas that need to be addressed.

Every hierarchy that puts forward some solution for a 'highlighted' problem, has consistently had some hidden agenda that simply takes too much time to pass to discern just who benefits, and who's been taken advantage of.

- 58

[RedeZra]

There is a whole gaggle of people who see that there is little room for Organized Religion in civilization's future, especially as one of the largest world social movements begin to recognize that the lack of contestability through a hierarchal structure is precisely what gets in the way of anything approaching a sustainable solution, be it in politics, economics, finance, health, welfare, media and I'm sure I'm missing some areas that need to be addressed.


i see the world and the human heart as a battlefield

between spiritual evil and spiritual good


and i see an end of an age and an end to evil

at least for a time


i see changes coming like a cleansing

for it is time


we won't recognize the future

[Ernie Nemeth]

Religiousness is not religion. The Most High does not require our obedience or our belief. It is the status of the observer at question here. By creating a thought pattern to describe reality in our primitive fashion we have divorced ourselves from our Source. We confuse thinking with knowledge. And knowledge with freedom. And freedom with relationship. We think we have relationships with others but we do not. We can have only one relationship and it defines our level of awareness. Either we are in conflict or we are at peace.

AMystic3434: keep reading the bible, it has many truths in it. Christ is the path to redemption, only no one really knows what that means. No one can go to the Father except through me, to paraphrase Jesus. This and more ye shall do - Jesus never claimed special status, instead declaring that all could become as he was.

This is a world of demons. They run the show here - and only because we have let them. We have strayed from the path and we have erred. But we have not sinned. A mistake can be corrected, a sin forever blemishes the soul (if such a thing were possible). The words in the bible, along with a great many other holy books, are words of power. They are derived from purposefully constructed lines of thought designed specifically to shield from temptation and corruption in all its devious forms.

So read on, I do. And I am not affiliated with any organized religion. The words shield me and gently lead me back to my true reality as the Created One.
Praise be to God, The Most High!

[shamanseeker]

The Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. all had a male divinity (God the Father figure), a female deity (The Mary figure often standing on a crescent moon with a halo of stars around her head) and the baby (the Jesus figure). There are illustrations of them and if you saw them you would swear they came from the Christian era when in fact they date to long before that. The baby lived to 33 and was killed on a tree, he then rose after three days!

i know the Zeitgeist or the spirit of our times tries to compare Christianity with Mystery Babylon Egypt and Rome

but Christianity has it's history in the Old Testament where YHWH was against the idol or lesser spirit worship of these mystery religions

and Jesus in the Bible speaks about fallen angels devils and demons as a matter of fact


so to compare Christianity with Mystery Babylon must be a trick of the devil in order to confuse people


just look to Bohemian Grove or Skull and Bones to know who the elite serve

they serve the idols or the lesser spirits of Mystery Babylon Egypt and Rome

and they are all enemies to Christ Christianity and Humanity

Hi Redezra,
Yes, there are other gods and goddesses but that doesn't take away from the fact that the story of the crucifixion and the Trinity existed before the Christian era.
They have been excavating in the Holy Land for years and archaeologists haven't been able to find any proof, for example, that the 'great kingdoms of King David' or Solomon existed there - an impossibility if they really existed. Many historians and archaeologists (including those from Israel) have come to the conclusion that the Holy Land was a region of ancient Egypt and that Kings David and Solomon were in fact pharoahs. I'm afraid I don't have references except for David Icke. Hopefully, there is someone on the forum who is more knowledgable of this than I am who could help here?
This would fit in with the fact that the coronation ceremony in Great Britain was said to be the same as that of King David when, it is in, fact, word for word the same one as the ancient Egyptians'!
These people who lead the churches are really running the Church of Babylon. But pure Christianity is only the message of pure love (as preached by the real Jesus) not the doctrine and dogma of the Christian churches.
I was very religious once, too, and I know it's hard to accept, but unfortunately we need to face the facts for we have been taken for a ride.
Bye!

[RedeZra]

Hi Redezra,

They have been excavating in the Holy Land for years and archaeologists haven't been able to find any proof, for example, that the 'great kingdoms of King David' or Solomon existed there - an impossibility if they really existed. Many historians and archaeologists (including those from Israel) have come to the conclusion that the Holy Land was a region of ancient Egypt and that Kings David and Solomon were in fact pharoahs. I'm afraid I don't have references except for David Icke.


hi Shamanseeker

there is ample evidence that archaeology backs up the Bible story but for some reason the establishment is silent about this

i even made a thread about it here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22804-Biblical-Archaeology)





These people who lead the churches are really running the Church of Babylon. But pure Christianity is only the message of pure love (as preached by the real Jesus) not the doctrine and dogma of the Christian churches.


Christianity is not united under spiritual good but is infiltrated and split by spiritual evil

that doesn't make Christianity the nest of evil but it has a fair share of it


Jesus spoke of love but He also warned us about a spiritual enemy who wants our spiritual death

and by His own death He descended down to hell and took the keys of hell and death from the enemy

so whoever put her trust in Him has an Advocate in heaven

as there is also justice in the universe regulated by spiritual rules

and when we sin or miss the mark then we give the spiritual enemy a legal right to come by and pester us

[58andfixed]

"The Bible Unearthed"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/Bible_Unearthed.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

-".. a 2001 book about the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins of the Hebrew Bible."

"The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine."

"...an archaeological analysis of the patriarchal, conquest, judges, and United Monarchy narratives [shows] that while there is no compelling archaeological evidence for any of them, there is clear archaeological evidence that places the stories themselves in a late 7th-century BCE context."

"As noted by a reviewer on Salon.com the approach and conclusions of The Bible Unearthed are not particularly new."

"Ze'ev Herzog, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, wrote a cover story for Ha'aretz in 1999 in which he reached similar conclusions following the same methodology; Herzog noted also that some of these findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades, even though they have only recently begun to make a dent in the awareness of the general public."

****

RedeAra, your links of videos of lectures are simply opinions of a narrow and declining narrative in support of a mythology that is not supported by evidence.

Opinions are evidence of nothing.

Specifically the video you link to here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWawVUZg3Es

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWawVUZg3Es

I suggest taking a view of something like:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t440bxhn1qA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t440bxhn1qA

There are far more scholars untied to a specific bias from some one of the so many denominations, and refer to more and a broader range of evidence, than the framing bias of selecting only certain pieces that fit the Biblical narrative, while avoiding evidence that doesn't fit.

http://archaeology.about.com/cs/educationalresour/a/history3.htm

"Is the Bible Fact or Fiction?"

- 58

[RedeZra]

RedeAra, your links of videos of lectures are simply opinions of a narrow and declining narrative in support of a mythology that is not supported by evidence.

Opinions are evidence of nothing.


There are far more scholars untied to a specific bias from some one of the so many denominations, and refer to more and a broader range of evidence, than the framing bias of selecting only certain pieces that fit the Biblical narrative, while avoiding evidence that doesn't fit.


i am aware of the antagony against the Bible story by the establishment

and for this reason alone

i would be inclined to believe the Bible without any evidence


but then i thought surly there must be archaeological evidence if the Bible story is true

and sure enough

the late Ron Wyatt had already rediscovered the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah the Mount Sinai in Saudi Arabia and the Ark of Noah in the Ararat mountains and put it on film for us to watch

these clips are in that thread too where we can see with our own eyes the evidences that back up the Bible


the idea view or opinion that the Bible is fiction and mythology is propagated by the establishment for their own agenda

the elite will not present us with facts and artifacts which might jeopardize their position of control over us


but this is basic knowledge now ; )

[truthseekerdan]

What makes something true? Every single one of us has their own opinions and ideas, and they are all valid because we are all unique drops in this infinite ocean of divine conscious intelligence. The time for ignorance is over and we are all being called to wake up from much of what has kept us in the dark.

But, we've all been told different things about truth, especially through religions and their doctrines. Many of us are afraid to question these "beliefs" because we fear moving away from our comfort zone or what others might think. But whatever the excuses are, we need to realize that it is just ego (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend&p=478&viewfull=1#post478) and we need to transcend this aspect of ourselves to move towards our higher being and our true selves; more than just the physical body and egoistic mind and reach for our true potential. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2010:34-35&version=NKJV)

I, for one, am excited to be living in a time when masses of people are expressing freedom of thought, that was previously wasted on dogma and mental boxes; set up by those who had hidden agenda's. Speaking from a Christian background I know that the fear based religions would rather prevent the true knowledge and wisdom from seeping into the minds of the people. They encourage a closed mind to remain in power, and distorted and manipulated many truths. They also don't encourage opening your mind to any outside knowledge or anything that might liberate you from the fear based paradigm.

It was very empowering for me to finally realize that I didn't have to serve my "religious" beliefs but rather have my beliefs serve me. I could choose what my higher self was guiding me to believe based on love (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013:13&version=NIV) rather than fear or the ego-identity. (http://www.myspiritualoasis.org/showthread.php?12-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend&p=402&viewfull=1#post402) Many of us are now realizing that our "faith" or the fear based beliefs that we were conditioned to believe, that what our parents and their parents were conditioned to believe was not assisting us into evolving to a higher level of consciousness. What a perfect way to transcend it, by growing up within such an environment and moving beyond it, to become more of who we really are? (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2082&version=NIV)

I know for me, the path to opening my mind was subtle, but I know what I resonated with and what I didn't even as a child. If the ego had any part to play in the teaching or book I was came across, I would feel the tension and the fear and knew that it wasn't my truth, even though it was conflicting for me. I now see that human made truth is just that, not divine truth. Divine truth (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017:20-21&version=NIV) never changes but man made dogma and creeds always have, always to suit those most craving power, money and control.

I know one thing for certain, a true religion or set of beliefs should not hide knowledge that has the potential to set you free. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Cor.3:6&version=NIV) But those who have the power won't give you that knowledge. We are moving to the point where we have to see how we are all connected as one Humanity and not get pulled away from knowing we are all in this evolutionary journey together. Therefore we must embrace everyone, regardless of any difference in faith, color, political standing, nationality, etc.

It does require courage to break away from limiting beliefs and the barriers that prevent us from reaching our full potential, but the rewards are so worth it. When we realize that the truth is within our hearts we will never give our power away to anyone ever again. The reward is the joy of freedom to be who you were created to be. Our inner guidance can never lead us astray if we focus on taking full responsibility for ourselves 100% of the time and remain centered in our integrity to follow our higher self. (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mat.23:8-12&version=NIV) There are great websites and books that your higher self will guide you to find when you are ready.

So as our great master-teacher, Jesus said, "the key of knowledge is within", inside one's feeling body. Innocent ignorance is no longer an option when quantum physics has proven what the mystics have said for thousands of years. One thing is for sure, you won't find the whole truth in religions, governments, media or any other institution owned by those few who possess all the money and power. The goal was to keep you ignorant but it wasn't meant to last forever. We can claim our abdication with courage and will, the will that comes from our higher self that is always leading us out of the untruth.

Ask yourselves these questions about any of your beliefs:

1. Where did the belief originate?

2. Why do I believe it?

3. What do I feel when I think about not believing it?

4. Is fear part of this belief?

5. Does the belief serve my sense of inner peace or is it serving someone or something else?

When you ask these five questions of all your beliefs, then you realize that 99.99% of what you have confidence in, including what you claim to be your spiritual knowing can be traced to someone's need to control and/or be right. :)

Much Love & Light ~ Dan

7sbU7Yb2OK8

[58andfixed]

Consider both the peer review process, or how evidence is contested in a court of law.

The wider the range of perspectives that is added to the review process, the closer that 'mere belief' and 'individual perspective' approaches that of evidence or reality.

It is my suspicion that when Organized Religion evolves into as many ideas that are lived as there are mortals on this planet, it will much more closely resemble the unique pattern of personality and DNA that is embedded in our material life forms.

There seems to be a hint of what the physical offers, for the potential for spiritual experience, that of uniqueness.

- 58




What makes something true?

[jorr lundstrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNARYZVzc3Y&feature=player_embedded

[58andfixed]

Excellent contribution Jorr re: "Zionism Defined"

It is much closer reality than the standard 'Jewish broad paintbrush generalization.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism

An excellent example of how deeply committed believers become hijacked by a political agenda.

Also consider David Livingstone's "Three Thousand Year History" for a much longer, much more thorough examination of the manipulated.

http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/

http://www.terrorism-illuminati.com/sites/default/files/bookcover.jpg

Holding on to naive perspectives for the functionality of Organized Religion completely misses the dark & hidden agendas.

- 58

[jorr lundstrom]

58andfixed wrote:


An excellent example of how deeply committed believers become hijacked by
a political agenda.

This was a political agenda from the beginnig, cloaked so that it should look as a religion.
And the world has bought into it as a religion, when in reality its nothing more that a few
tribes war on the rest of humanity. :ranger:

[shamanseeker]

Hi Redezra,

They have been excavating in the Holy Land for years and archaeologists haven't been able to find any proof, for example, that the 'great kingdoms of King David' or Solomon existed there - an impossibility if they really existed. Many historians and archaeologists (including those from Israel) have come to the conclusion that the Holy Land was a region of ancient Egypt and that Kings David and Solomon were in fact pharoahs. I'm afraid I don't have references except for David Icke.




hi Shamanseeker

there is ample evidence that archaeology backs up the Bible story but for some reason the establishment is silent about this

i even made a thread about it here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?22804-Biblical-Archaeology)





These people who lead the churches are really running the Church of Babylon. But pure Christianity is only the message of pure love (as preached by the real Jesus) not the doctrine and dogma of the Christian churches.


Christianity is not united under spiritual good but is infiltrated and split by spiritual evil

that doesn't make Christianity the nest of evil but it has a fair share of it


Jesus spoke of love but He also warned us about a spiritual enemy who wants our spiritual death

and by His own death He descended down to hell and took the keys of hell and death from the enemy

so whoever put her trust in Him has an Advocate in heaven

as there is also justice in the universe regulated by spiritual rules

and when we sin or miss the mark then we give the spiritual enemy a legal right to come by and pester us


Hi RedeZra,
I read a long time ago about the fact that they knew that the land was fertile and a few other things but have never read anything about the proof of a large kingdom in the time of David or any proof of the Isrealites having been outside the boundaries of the Holy Land for 40 years in the time of Moses (I remember reading about the fact that they were astonished not to have found any proof of this and it is recorded that confused Israeli archeologists have categorically stated that there is no proof of these things). I do know that people with connections to the Catholic church have been trying to hold back archaeological evidence over the last century, e.g. with the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you have any references to the contrary not written by people connected to the churches, I would be interested to see them.
Thanks!

[shamanseeker]

RedeAra, your links of videos of lectures are simply opinions of a narrow and declining narrative in support of a mythology that is not supported by evidence.

Opinions are evidence of nothing.

There are far more scholars untied to a specific bias from some one of the so many denominations, and refer to more and a broader range of evidence, than the framing bias of selecting only certain pieces that fit the Biblical narrative, while avoiding evidence that doesn't fit.


i am aware of the antagony against the Bible story by the establishment

and for this reason alone

i would be inclined to believe the Bible without any evidence


but then i thought surly there must be archaeological evidence if the Bible story is true

and sure enough

the late Ron Wyatt had already rediscovered the ashen remains of Sodom and Gomorrah the Mount Sinai in Saudi Arabia and the Ark of Noah in the Ararat mountains and put it on film for us to watch

these clips are in that thread too where we can see with our own eyes the evidences that back up the Bible


the idea view or opinion that the Bible is fiction and mythology is propagated by the establishment for their own agenda

the elite will not present us with facts and artifacts which might jeopardize their position of control over us


but this is basic knowledge now ; )

Hi again RedeZra,
The events you have mentioned happened long before the churches claimed they did. They are in the ancient Sumerian writings too. It is the Establishment that is holding back information from us.
The churches are part of the Establishment: the politicians, the bankers and the churches. That is why in all capital cities, you have the cathedral/abbey, the biggest banks and the parliament all in the same area. They work together to hide the truth from us. Oh, and btw, I'm a 'she' :-)
Best wishes

[RedeZra]

Hi RedeZra,

I read a long time ago about the fact that they knew that the land was fertile and a few other things but have never read anything about the proof of a large kingdom in the time of David or any proof of the Isrealites having been outside the boundaries of the Holy Land for 40 years in the time of Moses (I remember reading about the fact that they were astonished not to have found any proof of this and it is recorded that confused Israeli archeologists have categorically stated that there is no proof of these things).


hi Shamanseeker


if it's not in the best interest of the establishment

then they will not present proof to the public

but twist lie or deny it


we have been educated by the establishment

to such an extent that we can't distinguish facts from fiction


often what the establishment present as proof

is just planted fantasy


it's not easy to pierce through the layers of lies

especially when the establishment puts on an alternative disguise

and let us run from lies to lies

like rats on a wheel


but at the end of an age

being righteous is much more important

than the search for proof

[shamanseeker]

Hi RedeZra,

I read a long time ago about the fact that they knew that the land was fertile and a few other things but have never read anything about the proof of a large kingdom in the time of David or any proof of the Isrealites having been outside the boundaries of the Holy Land for 40 years in the time of Moses (I remember reading about the fact that they were astonished not to have found any proof of this and it is recorded that confused Israeli archeologists have categorically stated that there is no proof of these things).


hi Shamanseeker


if it's not in the best interest of the establishment

then they will not present proof to the public

but twist lie or deny it


we have been educated by the establishment

to such an extent that we can't distinguish facts from fiction


often what the establishment present as proof

is just planted fantasy


it's not easy to pierce through the layers of lies

especially when the establishment puts on an alternative disguise

and let us run from lies to lies

like rats on a wheel


but at the end of an age

being righteous is much more important

than the search for proof


Hi RedeZra,
This is my last post on this subject because you have the right to believe what you want to. when I was young I went to church every week and was taught not to trust in what the universities, professors, etc were saying and it is true that a lot of them are there to misinform us. But if we don't read all that info, how are we to decide for ourselves which info is true and which is false: or are we to believe blindly what our religious teachers tell us? If we do that, it is so easy for them to deceive us. It's important for the establishment and secret societies that we believe in a god, any god because that way they have control over us. If you want to stay safe in your beliefs and be told what to think, do, etc and follow your religious leaders, that is your right.
Before leaving this subject, I'd just like to answer your previous msgs with the following:
The kings and emperors of this world have been working hand-in-hand with the religions and politicians (the Establishment) throughout history.
The Christianization of the nations has been brought about via a considerable amount of bloodshed. We just have to look at the Emperor Constantine who Christianized the Roman Empire. He had a dream in 312 AD where he says he saw a fiery cross in the sky and was told by Jesus to massacre the “pagans” it goes on. (This is all accepted by the churches despite the fact that Jesus taught "Thou shalt not kill") See http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100323185149AAktmvq for more info. However, (and here we see that Orwellian double-speak was in act even then and not a new ‘invention’) The triumphal arch of Constantine, built in 315 by the senate of Rome after his "conversion," contains reliefs of Jupiter, Mars and Hercules, and Constantine apparently associated his victory at the Milvian Bridge with the power of the sun, but no Christian symbol can be found on the structure and there is no reference to Christ; however, there are images and homage paid to Mithras, another sun god whose birthday is December 25th (Emperor's State of Grace). If you look at the Christian churches, cathedrals, Mormon temple, you will find most of them covered with pagan symbols. The so-called pagans were murdered for political reasons with the sanction of the churches.
Constantine may not have completely established the date of Christmas, but what is clear is that he had considerable influence in setting the date of December 25 as Christ's birthday.
Constantine did not want Easter to be celebrated on the Jewish Passover either,for he believed and stated that it was a Christian "duty to have nothing in common with the murderers of our Lord," (Nicea Ruling…) most certainly an anti-Semitic view.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100323185149AAktmvq
A bloody purge of members of Constantine’s family took place after his conversion examples of which are when he ordered the execution of his oldest son and his wife, Faustus, the mother of his other sons. Yet, Constantine is considered a saint by the Eastern Orthodox churches and still defended by the Church of Rome for political reasons.
In about 313, Alexander was made first Patriarch or Pope. Alexander exhibited an obsessive hatred towards the old pagan religions and influenced Constantine to elevate the Christian religion. “In one of the most perverse and evil acts of history, Alexander and his bishops are responsible for the extermination and crucifixion of around 335 of the last remaining priests of Zoroastrianism known as the Magi in Asia Minor and Palestine.” referred as “the three wise men” in the gospels http://one-evil.org/people/people_04c_constantine.htm
Constantius II, Constantine’s successor busily set about hunting down and murdering members of his own family who may have contested his right to be emperor. And so it goes on!
A good example of a nation being duped by the church is the story of St David:
“Born in Caerfai to Sandee, King of Ceredigion- a kingdom founded by the powerful and violent militia family of the Cunedda upon taking much of Wales. King Ceredig, grandfather to David was the founder.
There was some issue concerning his father's reign and the story of his birth by his mother, the daughter of Lord Cynr of Caer Goch may indicate a feud occurred between his father Sandee and his uncle Usai.
In any event, David was appointed a bishop and appeared a zealous and fanatic adherent of christianity, draughting rules for clergy that denied them even the simplest of enjoyments. It is alleged, his rules were so backward that he demanded community clergy till their fields carrying the plough themselves, without animals.
Around 530, Dawi was put in commission of a Papal militia army charged with the task of eliminating the last resistence of Pagan Celtic loyalties and seize the lands.
Approximately 200,000 to 300,000 Welsh were slaughtered by the Christian army of Dawi, with the remaining inhabitants sold into slavery.
Perversely, one of the single greatest mass murderers of the Welsh people is regarded as their patron saint.” http://one-evil.org/acts The church with the Establishment elevated this evil man to patron saint of Wales.

These are just a few of the thousands of examples of how much blood was shed in the Christianization of the western world. The original Jesus was not responsible for this but the churches, politicians and kings and emperors were.
You need only look at the histories of the churches to see that their leaders were politicians and kings and emperors. Most of the Popes, for example have been nobles and even princes. The Queen of England is the head of the Church of England. It is not the Establishment which works against the churches. They have their moments in which factions fight each other such as during the reformation but atrocities were carried out on both sides.
Look at the lists on the internet of the most evil men in history: they are all religious leaders, monarchs and politicians or in other words the Establishment.
I'll leave you in peace now RedeZra and wish you well for the future.
Bye!

[Eagle]

Religion is a begining and not the goal!

[RedeZra]

hi Shamanseeker


you wrote a very long post there with very little air in between the words

i'm an old oak and must spare my eyes


but i see you have been busy reading sources which i consider truth twisters at best


i'm no longer on the information surface scratching itches

but deep in my own experiences and visions


so i do not believe anything

i know


oh and all the Best to you too ; )

[Davy]

Coming from a strict Southern Baptist up bringing of which my Father, both Grandfathers and three Uncles are all "Preachers" And Being that I am Gay and have been all my life, I tried many years to find myself in "Christianity" But How can you embrace something that does not embrace you?? I fought many years with the idea I was going to Hell because of who I am and I just could never make since of it, Why would such a loving God have so much hate??? The Hell factor within Chistianity is such a great scare tactic to make its followers not venture outside Christianity! If they do not believe they are going to Hell, so they are not allowed to think outside of Christianity because nothing else is real or the truth and no one wants to go to Hell!

It is not God that has hate it is that religion has been used to brainwash and enslave to take away the real truth that we are all Gods incarnate we all have a part of God with in us! Thus we empower ourselves and when we understand that and connect to everything real the Earth, animals, the air and start to understand that is God in all these things! Why do we have to be taught what to believe Spirituality Can we not find it for ourselves? It is just that most people like being told what to believe and that is what they choose to believe, especially if it is what most others believe. When you do something over, and over and over again, for instance going to Church all your life, every week three times a week hearing the same book taught over and over and over again and again then it is Brainwashing?? But this is really what the people believe that teach it because that is what they too were taught over and over again and again......

[RedeZra]

I fought many years with the idea I was going to Hell because of who I am and I just could never make since of it, Why would such a loving God have so much hate??? The Hell factor within Chistianity is such a great scare tactic to make its followers not venture outside Christianity! If they do not believe they are going to Hell, so they are not allowed to think outside of Christianity because nothing else is real or the truth and no one wants to go to Hell!


hi Davy


Christianity did not introduce the concept of heaven and hell

also Hindu and Buddhist teachings include heavens and hells


the religions say that God has standards and He wants us to live up to His standards

for our own welfare


God sees the love or lack in our hearts and the intent or hurt behind our acts

being compassionate is much more important to God than being gay or not


God is above most of our human trivialities but He yields to love and compassion