Is there a Creator of our Consciousness?

[AMystic3434]

I have contemplated this for a long time and keep going around in circles. Is there a actual creator who has created our consciousness or is our consciousness a product of evolution and nature that has come into creation from a higher, natural, source. If there is a creator, how would have he of been created? Wouldnt he of had to of been created somehow or is the source just vibrating at such a high dimension that it just naturally pumps out and creates individual consciousness . What was it that brought our consciousess into existence. Was it nature or was it a creator?

[Tony]

Well, this is from the Buddhist perspective.
Our consciousness was never created, and can never die.
It has always been!
However, waking up means knowing one's true nature...
which means that we are still in the dream!

[Russ1959]

Perhaps consciousness itself is the creator and we merely tune in as we grow at one frequency or another?

[amadeus]

Well, this is from the Buddhist perspective.
Our consciousness was never created, and can never die.
It has always been!
However, waking up means knowing one's true nature...
which means that we are still in the dream!

Hey pie,n`,eal nice to see you.

If our universe is eternal it must be self aware to be so
Awareness of ourselves (self aware) by default reflects our environment , as it must.
Where is the dream within that .

[Tony]

Well, this is from the Buddhist perspective.
Our consciousness was never created, and can never die.
It has always been!
However, waking up means knowing one's true nature...
which means that we are still in the dream!

Hey pie,n`,eal nice to see you.

If our universe is eternal it must be self aware to be so
Awareness of ourselves (self aware) by default reflects our environment , as it must.
Where is the dream within that .

Hello Amadeus,
It's nice to speak to you to!
Well, the dream could mean that we are still in a conceptual state.
Meaning that we are aware of being aware, meaning aware that there
is a this and that, subject and object.

To wake up we have to realise the true nature of that awareness,
Which is Emptiness.

So, in Awareness which would be relative truth, there is a perceiver and a thing perceived.
In Emptiness which would be absolute truth, there is merely perception.

In actuality Consciousness and Emptiness are a unity, the outcome is Compassion.

Being eternal doesn't mean we are awake, just aware. We cling to concepts about
ourselves, this creates the dream state. I suppose once we truly recognise the dream,
we wake up!

All the best
Tony

[RedeZra]

Is there a actual creator who has created our consciousness or is our consciousness a product of evolution and nature that has come into creation from a higher, natural, source.

What was it that brought our consciousess into existence. Was it nature or was it a creator?

if consciousness is a product of nature then where did nature come from ?


it's easy to perceive the intelligence inherent in nature but who's intelligence is it

it seems to me we live and die within the mind of some super duper high intelligence


so i believe we are in the mind of God and that God is mindful of us

[mahalall]

A cow and a herder.

Rather than going round in circles go straight to the ice cream farm and take a breath.

I scream, look at the ingredients (elements: kalapas)

As the herder finishes his ice cream he ponders what flavour shall i'll have next.

[ponda]

AMystic3434 said:

Is there a actual creator who has created our consciousness or is our consciousness a product of evolution and nature that has come into creation from a higher, natural, source.


It might be a combination of both.

I would imagine that an advanced Extra Terrestrial or Inter-dimensional race would have difficulty answering those questions.They might phrase their understandings of how things work differently to us but still not know the true answer.The Universe isn't just big and multi dimensional it's really really deep and mysterious imho.

[Lettherebelight]

Hi AMystic, this is one of the most important questions you will ask in your lifetime.

Although it would be so easy, and I would like to tell you, what I believe to be the Truth, the fact is, that I can't, because you don't know me, and this is a public forum. It would only be words on a screen.

However, I can say, now that you have put your question out, your Truth will find you, just stay open, and it will come.

All the best to you, seeker of knowledge of the Absolute.

[christian]

If there is a creator, how would have he of been created?

Why does anything exist anyways?
There could have been just nothing for good. But where would that have been?

I feel, we behave like a man on a boat, trying to measure the depth of the ocean with a stick, when contemplating those questions.

Fact is, somehow all this stuff is here, there, inside, outside and around and it surely came from somewhere. So far it seems, there is always something behind whatever one finds, there is always a bigger fish.

http://www.theintimatestranger.com/index/may2006_29_fish.jpg

Find out who you truly are and you will find the answers to your questions, I guess.

[Cottage Rose]

My personal belief: We are formed of The Consciousness and exist within it. We are beings who have the glorious power of free will. Our individual consciousness consists of the elements we choose to draw in from The Consciousness and call our own. If we choose, we have the creative abilities to then modify, expand, combine, reformulate etc., what we have drawn in from The Consciousness and return something new to The Consciousness. It is an ever expanding work in progress.

[another bob]

Greetings, Friend!

The creation of consciousness is not some event in the past, it is instantaneous, and if you'd like to know who's behind it, take a look in the mirror. You and your source are not two. The problem usually is, we try to figure things out with the wrong instrument (our 3D mind), which is incapable of discerning that in which it arises and which preceedes it. This is why sages point out that one must be still to know God.

Blessings!

[passiglight]

Of course their is ,,,,,,,source created the space for your consciousness to be,,,,,,, but more than that,,,you are the creator,,,,,,,,



you are the i am that is i am,,,,,,,

[RedeZra]

if i am in the mind of God

then who am i hehe


i am a phantom and a dream

and so are you


if we are in the mind of God

which i think we are ; )

[greybeard]

You are eternal.
What is eternal is without beginning or end.
THAT is what you are.
The totality all of it.

[Fred Steeves]

I tend to concern myself less and less with questions like that, they can drive one nucking futs. But, there was always an ad in the local paper, back when I used to read it, that advertised for the Unitarian Church. The message was short, simple, and it always stuck with me: "To question is the answer."

Cheers,
Fred

[HORIZONS]

It is very difficult for our finite minds to understand an infinite question such as this, but as I see it: Consciousness IS! And that Infinite Consciousness expresses Itself as infinite substance and form. Your individual consciousness is but one aspect of these manifold expressions of Infinite Consciousness - like a beam of light is but an expression of the source of light itself - so we are, and all things as well - an expression of Consciousness. Personally I do not think it is possible to create something from nothing, but I do think it is possible for Something to express Itself as whatever that intelligence can comprehend.

[truthseekerdan]

so i believe we are in the mind of God and that God is mindful of us

Great RedeZra, but we're also the body of Christ... :)

[RedeZra]

I Am

beyond Ignorance which is beyond Consciousness

and when you are tired of being you

then you can by Consciousness pierce through Ignorance

and be Me



pssst - this is me putting words in God's mouth

[Lefty Dave]

For me, nature is an aspect of universal consciousness ...as is our own ....

[amadeus]

Well, this is from the Buddhist perspective.
Our consciousness was never created, and can never die.
It has always been!
However, waking up means knowing one's true nature...
which means that we are still in the dream!

Hey pie,n`,eal nice to see you.

If our universe is eternal it must be self aware to be so
Awareness of ourselves (self aware) by default reflects our environment , as it must.
Where is the dream within that .

Hello Amadeus,
It's nice to speak to you to!
Well, the dream could mean that we are still in a conceptual state.
Meaning that we are aware of being aware, meaning aware that there
is a this and that, subject and object.

To wake up we have to realise the true nature of that awareness,
Which is Emptiness.

So, in Awareness which would be relative truth, there is a perceiver and a thing perceived.
In Emptiness which would be absolute truth, there is merely perception.

In actuality Consciousness and Emptiness are a unity, the outcome is Compassion.

Being eternal doesn't mean we are awake, just aware. We cling to concepts about
ourselves, this creates the dream state. I suppose once we truly recognise the dream,
we wake up!


All the best
Tony

there is no emptiness, unimaginable, fields exist within and without all things all places
before fields were discovered, gravity field being the first of many, belief was emptiness and void, now known to have been emotional imagination in response
to observed and experienced effects of unexplainable design
remove emptiness and void and what exists, eternal structure we liken to consciousness

[Sky]

Nice question Mystic - similar to the three that we all oneday seek answers for -

1. Where do I come from
2. What is my mission here
3. Where do I go to after this?

Once you have the answers for these - life becomes easier...

Personally I do not believe evolution caused all this we experience - it's too perfect.

Another interesting question is - where does consciousness reside?

[Alex Laker]

I believe all creatures have the inherent capability of consciousness. In fact, I would class it as a basic condition of life along with the need to reproduce, the need to breath and the need to eat. To be alive, you need to be conscious. Even the smallest bacteria could perhaps possess some kind of consciousness. Therefore, it is the extent of our consciousness which defines us and evolves. As consciousness evolves, there comes a point in that evolution where a creature becomes aware that it is conscious, which inevitably increases that species' rate of evolution by an exponential amount. Yet, we still do not understand why or how we are conscious and in fact it has become a gift that we have rather exploited to our own ends upon the earth. It may be that the next stage of our conscious evolution is one in which we realise the true meaning of consciousness and are accepting of all the outward responsibilities that come with it. We are all beings that are able to make informed decisions, yet many of us still only make these decisions for ourselves - something that is all too reminiscent of animal instinct and the need to fulfill one's own needs above all others; so I think we are a long way off.

So maybe our consciousness is earned - a seed that is planted at the beginning of life. And as the tree of life branches out into all its various species, each with its own behaviours, only the most successfull will progress in consciousness. Only those that are most at one with their planet and everything else upon it can progress to the next level. I feel that perhaps the final stage of this process is to become God, as it were. An ultimately successful species will be infinitely conscious and caring and is such endowed with the power of creation. We're failing this level right now as a species, I feel, but everyday I see more and more people waking up to the fact that we must change our way of living. But that is the obstacle, the objective, the test. No-one gets it right first time, and I doubt any prevailing species in the universe has ever gone through its existence without tribulation at any level of consciouness.

In ultimate response to your question, I believe the concept of consciousness is created (by beings who have reached infinite consciousness), but its manisfestation and measure are something more of a journey or a series of objectives which a species may evolve through to get back to its creator and share all that it has learned along the way. But its not easy - a salmon has a heck of a tough journey upstream before it can reproduce and create a new generation. Right now, we're all at sea.

[truthseekerdan]

I have contemplated this for a long time and keep going around in circles. Is there a actual creator who has created our consciousness or is our consciousness a product of evolution and nature that has come into creation from a higher, natural, source. If there is a creator, how would have he of been created? Wouldnt he of had to of been created somehow or is the source just vibrating at such a high dimension that it just naturally pumps out and creates individual consciousness . What was it that brought our consciousess into existence. Was it nature or was it a creator?

My friend this is a great question. To find out the answer to your question(s) if you want to know more, there is a great deal of explanations (video) if you click the picture in my signature... :nod:

Much love and understanding ~ Dan

[RedeZra]

i think the Projector is more precise than the Creator


as the Creator involves at least to my mind an external Creative agent somewhat seperated from the Creation

while Projector implies an internal Projective agent intrinsically interconnected with the Projection


if the Universe is a Projection then we exist because of the Projective light of the Projector


if this is so then we owe our existence to God

but i guess we knew that ehe ; )

[truthseekerdan]

i think the Projector is more precise than the Creator


as the Creator involves at least to my mind an external Creative agent somewhat seperated from the Creation

while Projector implies an internal Projective agent intrinsically interconnected with the Projection


if the Universe is a Projection then we exist because of the Projective light of the Projector

...

Guess what RedeZra, we're on the same page here... :yo:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20787-28.-The-Earth-does-not-have-consciousness.&p=333725#post333725

Projected blessings and love

[lightning23]

:closed::closed:

[RedeZra]

Guess what RedeZra, we're on the same page here... :yo:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?20787-28.-The-Earth-does-not-have-consciousness.&p=333725#post333725

Projected blessings and love

great Dan we finally found something we agree on hehe

let's hope the Light of the world agrees as well ; )

[Gardener]

Do you think that maybe the answers to these big questions just might not be needed right now, that it could be an excercise in 'thinking that we are thinking'. That before we can answer these questions maybe we have to learn what 'I' is. Who 'I' is today is not the same as 'I' was say ten years ago, in fact many 'I's exist in one person, even at the same time, even in condradiction to each other. Perhaps we have to answer these simpler questions, then some answers fall into place. Brings to mind a gospel passage ["...unless thy eye ('I') be single..."] Just saying......um...:behindsofa:

[markpierre]

It IS an interesting question. If you look deep enough it's the only question you've ever had. The cause of all the discomfort in the world.

The only thing that really distinguishes human consciousness from all the other conscious expressions (which is everything else), is that it doesn't know what it is. Yet strangly it does. But it believes that a 'self' and a 'Self' should somehow have something to do with each other. Well, sometimes the ''Self' is relegated to babysitter.

In the meanwhile Reality carries on while we ponder the question. Maybe I'm not 'something'. Maybe I just AM. What's the difference what my 'cause' is? I know I don't cause myself.

A lot of minds might like to argue with that, and there you go. Deeper into the rift. "Well I've read a lot about it and I've accumulated a lot of knowledge and I've thought about it for a long long time." Good for them.
But if they'll give in for a half a sec to what is, they'll get their answer. Some of them have. Can you give that experience away? No. Can you explain 'how' to stop doing what prevents it? No. Bummer. Ask Jesus how well that went down. But he did say your time will come.

We weren't 'created' and left on our own to figure it out. Everything about us is a brand new expression of totality...right now. Everyone will mostly agree with that.....but;
Oops, missed it..... Now....dang, missed it again. Hey there it is! Oops, tried to analyze it again.
Here's a hint; Every time you laugh you're free.

But one instant in that experience will explain the what and why and how of everything. It's quite a surprise. Strangely doesn't exclude the question, or the questioner, or all the eons of suffering we're still trying to forgive ourselves for. Illusions really do reveal themselves to be illusions in the light of Reality. Delusion might be a better word. The chicken and the egg is a good example of the problem. "But I NEED an answer". No you don't. You need to 'BE'. That's the answer. A true answer reorganizes the question.

What came first? You did. It was a meaningless question.

If you want to discover your 'Source', want THAT more than you want anything else in the universe. Including your self identification. Want it more than all the ideas about how things should or shouldn't be. How long can you practice that before something outside of you distracts you?

Don't worry, it accumulates.

[58andfixed]

Questions potentially have more substance than mere opinions.

Really good questions take a long time to discern the answer, and often, depending on the depth of the question, deeper answers await to be discovered.

Not having questions to ask might be a tepid life lived.

- 58

[Trail]

As Abraham (hicks) puts it: Humans are the burning tip of concsiousness.

As in, we create and expand concsiousness ourselves in our own unique way's.

[58andfixed]

Maybe Joan Osborn had more depth than most suspect with "One of Us" ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEO1Lug25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZEO1Lug25s

5m 4s 4,157,436 views

- 58


"Humans are the burning tip of concsiousness."

[markpierre]

Questions potentially have more substance than mere opinions.

Really good questions take a long time to discern the answer, and often, depending on the depth of the question, deeper answers await to be discovered.

Not having questions to ask might be a tepid life lived.

- 58

Maybe. Maybe they're just a distraction. The longer it takes to discern the answer, the better they've served to distract you. You gotta wonder what part of you is asking the questions if the answer is always 'Self'. This thread is about causation isn't it?

Well okay. Ya gotta start somewhere. But tell me this; what is a 'good' question? What's a 'deep' question? How do you know a good one from a bad one, and how will the answer serve you?

And why would not having any questions left be tepid? I would think it would be a relief. You might even be in rapture. Don't you formulate questions so that you get answers in the hope that someday you won't have any more questions?

Where will that leave you? Tepid? Then you'll regret having asked the questions. Gnawing on questions is what 'life' is? It's all a bit crazy isn't it?

Now that might just sound like a lot of questions, but honestly, I don't need the answers. But they are relatively 'deep' aren't they?

[58andfixed]

When you are falling asleep, *THAT* question stays with you.

When you wake up one day, an answer to a question you had once, shows up just as you're getting ready for your shower & coffee.

As for the rest of the questions, whether you accept or deny it, you clearly are demonstrating the whole point of questions.

You good looking hunk, what are you looking at ?

- 58

what is a 'good' question?

[Anchor]

I have contemplated this for a long time and keep going around in circles. Is there a actual creator who has created our consciousness or is our consciousness a product of evolution and nature that has come into creation from a higher, natural, source. If there is a creator, how would have he of been created? Wouldnt he of had to of been created somehow or is the source just vibrating at such a high dimension that it just naturally pumps out and creates individual consciousness . What was it that brought our consciousess into existence. Was it nature or was it a creator?

We are so hamstrung by the boundaries of finite thinking that the answer to this question can only be approached in abstract terms.

You see, ideas like nothing and infinity require a certain kind of thinking that one can only at time grasp - sometimes you think you have it all worked out then blam, you havent :)

As Fred S says, it can drive you nucking futs - but if you are really lucky it can also drive you to penetrate the mystery.

There are many sources on Avalon that, in their own way try to do this - but I dont think that there is a single human created answer that will cater for all readers.

That's why its approached by many paths, that is why, I think Krishnamurti was so insightful to have said that "Truth is a pathless land".

The answer to the question in the thread title is YES.

Now where do you want to go from here :)

[music]

It could be argued that consciousness is a product of physical existence. Imagine that all that exists (infinite duality) is the result of the division of the source, or the all (which I would call Love). To be conscious, one must be in duality, because for an idea to be formed, it must have its opposite to bounce off. To be supra-conscious is to be in the all, where all that was split is whole, so thinking is redundant and irrelevant.

[Tony]

How did the confusion start? It started with self-consciousness.

There has always been just open space, belonging to no one. This space is intelligent and clear.
We are this space, we are one with it. It is pure and it is conscious.

So what happened to this open space? Nothing happened to it, we have just become too active in this space. We got excited and Self -consciousness was created.

We forgot empty space and made it solid. Duality means “Space and I.” From that everything else was created.

How did it all start? It didn't, as the universe is infinite.

[Timmoth]

I think the Big Bang was more like a Big Awakening.
That's when the chaotic energetic sea of infinite potential inevitably fell into enough semblance of order to create an awareness, then that awareness felt desire.
So seeking greater experience, and being the only thing in existence, it spun parts of itself off into galaxies and stars and planets and beings, and in the depths of that physicality each seperated consciousness, now ignorant of it's source and overhwelmed with sensations, experienced.
With the lessons that experience brings each consciousness inevitably achieves greater awareness, until it has learned enough to realise it's source, and it's oneness.
So we're all like yo-yo's, spun down from our source, but our return is inevitable.
At least that's the best I can figure out anyway. ;)

[amadeus]

How did the confusion start? It started with self-consciousness.

There has always been just open space, belonging to no one. This space is intelligent and clear.
We are this space, we are one with it. It is pure and it is conscious.

So what happened to this open space? Nothing happened to it, we have just become too active in this space. We got excited and Self -consciousness was created.

We forgot empty space and made it solid. Duality means “Space and I.” From that everything else was created.

How did it all start? It didn't, as the universe is infinite.

like it !!!!!!!

the smallest number (units) that exist is 2
there is no 0 or 1 , those are imagined symbols (dimensions/units) to assist our keeping track of what we observe

2 = you and all else

the structure and function of all else (universe) by default provides awareness of our structure and function (self)


there is no emptiness, unimaginable, fields exist within and without all things all places
before fields were discovered, gravity field being the first of many, belief was emptiness and void, now known to have been emotional imagination in response
to observed and experienced effects of unexplainable design
remove emptiness and void and what exists, eternal structure we liken to consciousness

as can be hopefully seen, our awareness of the structure of all else is blossoming in a manner unlike that which we did believe thus what we are (self), is yet to be discovered

what we know is what we believed we are, we are not , just as our universe is not as we believed it was either

[Moonwish]

A cow and a herder.

Rather than going round in circles go straight to the ice cream farm and take a breath.

I scream, look at the ingredients (elements: kalapas)

As the herder finishes his ice cream he ponders what flavour shall i'll have next.


Question(s):

Who is going in circles really? Is "tasting" reality possible for the herder or just the cow?
Do you think it is possible the cow is turning the kalapas she embodies into the next flavor herself?

Isn't this what all this recent flux is about?