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Sidney
22nd October 2011, 16:52
I had an epiphany this morning as I watched my childrens basketball game. Junior high. And I have not researched the history of competitive sports, but as I watched these boys aggressively fight for the ball as if it were made of 24 k gold, I had this vision of the ball, as the earth. And that this was the training ground for wanting to rule the world. I know it sounds dramatic, but I dream of a peaceful world where we teach our kids medatative peace within.

Sports is not only training for aggressiveness, but another way to segragate us.

Calz
22nd October 2011, 16:58
I agree completely ... but today I am doing my best to offer the lighter side to most anything ...

SlO-vu_uVHs

mahalall
22nd October 2011, 17:58
Thanks Starchild,
"Sports is not only training for aggressiveness, but another way to segragate us"

In a similar way i've been pondering on the testosteronisation of sport and exploring if their are sports that are less aggressive and bring people together in love.
As part of this research i've discovered that in the competitive world of olympic sport there is not a male synchronised swimmers team. It would appear the world nations are aware of this and are in hot pursuit to develop a team for London 2012. The attached film shows the American Olympic synchronised swimmers in training.

3IbGdeyJkSU

christian
22nd October 2011, 18:36
As most Germans, I love soccer. I usually don't count goals when I play, that distracts me and doesn't interest me. Of course I'm eager to score goals, but I see the game as a celebration of beauty, as a dance with the ball. When it comes to the other team, it's like a dancing contest, where one shows off and the other answers, they push each other, I appreciate this, because we are full of potential yet sometimes we tend to be sloppy, if there is no challenge. At the end, I'm satisfied when both teams had a nice challenge and just appreciate the beauty of the game without being attached to the score board in any way. I like playing without goals just like that also, but it's much easier to find people for a game with teams. I have to say, that I have met very few people, who could see soccer the way I see it. The essence to me is: It's not the game, that is this or that, it's how we deal with it.

Anyways, I fully agree, that conquering one's own ego is way more important than being a little faster than someone of winning over another team.

mosquito
23rd October 2011, 03:11
You mean FOOTBALL !!!

Interesting thread. When I was young I loved certain sports, but hated the aggression inherent in them. I used to play to win, but never to the point of distraction, never as a way of one-upmanship. I was utterly useless at squash, I couldn't see the point in hitting the bloody ball so that the opponent couldn't get it, consequently I only ever won one match in the 10 or so years I played !!! As for rugby - if the ball ever found its' way into my hands, I'd get rid of it as quickly as possible, I remember one cold wet winter school day when somehow I had the ball and the amassed bulleys on the other team headed for me with gleeful anticipation. I chucked the ball over my shoulder and ran like f*ck !! Nowadays Rugby is certainly my favourite sport, from the comfort of an armchair.
I also like watching football to some extent, and agree with Chiquetet that, at its' best, it's akin to watching a dance. But the modern game has been spoiled by the proliferation of gamesmanship and "professional" fouls, and has become dominated by petulant little primadonas.

Heyoka_11
23rd October 2011, 03:43
Sports is not only training for aggressiveness, but another way to segragate us.

Hi Cindy,

The emphasis on winning, and the inability to accept defeat without the obligatory "what went wrong" farce saw me lose interest in all sports many years ago. If I am watching TV news, I will leave the room when the sports begin, muttering "Bloody sport". All assembled expect my reaction.

Some time ago, I heard of a program instituted by the Brazilian government, where school students were given free musical instruments and lessons, and taught to play in a group (orchestra), in an attempt to instill in the students an appreciation of the importance of cooperation over competition.

That's the world that I am waiting for. :)

music
23rd October 2011, 08:11
When I was a child, I very firmly believe that sport kept me out of trouble. I lived in a rough area, I had been sexually abused by a neighbour at age five, and my father was often in jail or on the run. A real recipe for disaster. I joined a rugby league team at age 8, and we were blessed to have the most amazing man as a coach. He was 6' 6" and huge, a former military man, ex special forces, tours in Vietnam, but he had such a good way with us, and a good attitude to sport. He taught us to be tough, for sure, but also fair, and he instilled in us the belief that as long as we tried our best and played fairly, it didn't matter whether we won or lost. A lot of us were kids from troubled homes, it was that kind of area, and when I returned with my brother a few years back, I found that near enough 50% of our contempories were either dead, or in jail. The survivors? Well, everyone in my football team for a start, and also the kids who'd played other sports, or got involved in other forms of expression like dance, music or art. It is the attitude of the adults involved with sports that is the trouble, not the nature of sport.

Though it means nothing to this discussion, I will add that I was blessed with an extremely aware and loving mother, but many other kids who survived were not so blessed.

Tarka the Duck
23rd October 2011, 08:19
My husband was a fencer - he was actually in the Olympic squad in the 70s - and he absolutely adored what he and his contemporaries called "the conversation of the blades".
He stopped fencing in the early 90s because the sport had changed so much, and the emphasis was on aggression and athleticism. What he had loved so much - the relationship with the opponent and the challenge of reading and anticipating their thoughts and movements, even down to using the moment when they blinked to attack - was gone. Brute force and extreme fitness had taken over. Shame.

norman
23rd October 2011, 08:57
And don't forget that the stadiums they are paying for are perfect containers of people.

music
23rd October 2011, 09:00
My husband was a fencer - he was actually in the Olympic squad in the 70s - and he absolutely adored what he and his contemporaries called "the conversation of the blades".
He stopped fencing in the early 90s because the sport had changed so much, and the emphasis was on aggression and athleticism. What he had loved so much - the relationship with the opponent and the challenge of reading and anticipating their thoughts and movements, even down to using the moment when they blinked to attack - was gone. Brute force and extreme fitness had taken over. Shame.

That's what we have lost - the respect between opponents, the energetic connection - like ever thing, sport has been dumbed down and brutalised.

nottelling
23rd October 2011, 13:24
While I understand the various thoughts on this thread, I see sport somewhat differently. In my mind there are two types of sport-lovers - those who play and those who watch.

Those who play sport, even professional sport do so because of either a love for their game or because they have an innate skill or even a gift for it. Aside from the dominance aspects of it (winning at all costs), I see sport as very healthy, especially for children. It gets them off the computer, away from the TV or the ipod/pad and lets them go outside and be active. Sports practice and games equal social interaction and teamwork building - I think these aspects alone are very healthy and are necessary, but keep in mind, I don't yet have kids, so this is all from my own personal experience as a child.

Those who watch sport... I don't. Not because I don't like sport but because if I'm not participating, it's not all that interesting to me. Also, a couple of Prime Ministers ago, Australia had a funny little dude called John Howard as its leader. This bloke was a self-important, pompous tosser, but his team of advisers were every, very savvy. Any time there was a major sporting event such as the Ashes cricket match or the AFL or Rugby League grand final and... OMG, how could I forget... the 2000 Sydney Olympics, that particular government would quietly slip in some bill or legislation designed to remove freedoms from the Australian people. To be honest, I can't remember now exactly which freedoms we lost, but I can still remember my outrage at the realisation of how they were doing it and how much contempt that showed for the Australian people. With this in mind, I see all televised sporting events chiefly as a "distraction for the masses" and as a marketing exercise for the corporates. I don't watch sport, but I pay close attention to the idiots in our parliament in the lead up to and during major sporting events.

So, @starchild111, although I don't subscribe to your theory on why sport is bad, I think we're pretty much on the same page at the end of the day - or maybe I'm just a nutter LOL (?).

Sidney
23rd October 2011, 16:14
Yes, Nottelling- We all are on the same page, and I guess the big picture is that it has basically become a "BIG ME little you" world.

Sidney
23rd October 2011, 16:18
A point I would like to make, is that I do understand the benefits that children do get from participating in sports, or any activity. I have never held an intrest in competitive sports, not from personal predjudice of it just a dis interest. I just yearn for the peaceful quiet of harmonious togetherness as opposed to a win/lose competition.

Shakespeare's Foot.
23rd October 2011, 16:35
There's a Roman phrase 'Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt'. I suppose sport is our circus.

(And i'm a big football fan who has just enjoyed Utd getting tonked! ;))

RMorgan
23rd October 2011, 16:48
Nice thread. I never did well with group sports, but I do enjoy sports you can practice alone, fighting against your own limitations.

Iīm a target compound bow shooter, and I think itīs a great sport. Itīs ALL about concentration and meditation. Itīs about "becoming the arrow".

There nothing like shooting a 90m away target, watching the arrow doing an amazing parabola, and eventually hitting the bulls-eye. Itīs a wonderful sensation.

However, weīve lost the spirit of the whole sports thing. If you go back in time and watch the Brazilian Football team playing in the 70īs, you would see that it was almost like art! The players were regular people, having fun with the ball. It was about fun! Now, this whole thing is a just a very corrupted industry, where athletes are playing only for the money, and are negotiated like stallions.

Lord Sidious
23rd October 2011, 16:58
As most Germans, I love soccer. I usually don't count goals when I play, that distracts me and doesn't interest me. Of course I'm eager to score goals, but I see the game as a celebration of beauty, as a dance with the ball. When it comes to the other team, it's like a dancing contest, where one shows off and the other answers, they push each other, I appreciate this, because we are full of potential yet sometimes we tend to be sloppy, if there is no challenge. At the end, I'm satisfied when both teams had a nice challenge and just appreciate the beauty of the game without being attached to the score board in any way. I like playing without goals just like that also, but it's much easier to find people for a game with teams. I have to say, that I have met very few people, who could see soccer the way I see it. The essence to me is: It's not the game, that is this or that, it's how we deal with it.

Anyways, I fully agree, that conquering one's own ego is way more important than being a little faster than someone of winning over another team.

I love football.
Unfortunately, the people who said money would destroy the English leagues with the formation of the FA Premier League were correct.
I know the clubs are businesses, but the money has destroyed the game.
On my fathers side, we hail from Manchester and I supported United for years.
I even remember seeing Match of the Day with Law, Best and Charlton still playing for United.
Now, I don't even know if they are champions or not.
In the big picture, it is better for me, as I am not distracted by another form of tribalism.


My husband was a fencer - he was actually in the Olympic squad in the 70s - and he absolutely adored what he and his contemporaries called "the conversation of the blades".
He stopped fencing in the early 90s because the sport had changed so much, and the emphasis was on aggression and athleticism. What he had loved so much - the relationship with the opponent and the challenge of reading and anticipating their thoughts and movements, even down to using the moment when they blinked to attack - was gone. Brute force and extreme fitness had taken over. Shame.

Here is one for you then, from another ex olympic fencer.
Bruce Dickinson was on the team.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W0DB8NYhmI


There's a Roman phrase 'Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt'. I suppose sport is our circus.

(And i'm a big football fan who has just enjoyed Utd getting tonked! ;))

How rude! :eek:

Funny thing is, I don't even know what game you are talking about.
I like it like that too.

Fred Steeves
23rd October 2011, 17:16
My life certainly has ceased to revolve around sports any more, but I still enjoy popping a couple of cold ones on Sunday, forget about the B.S. for a while, and watch my hometown Buccaneers play. By the way, for any who care, they're playng at Wembley today. Of course this is REAL football...:P

Cheers,
Fred

Sidney
23rd October 2011, 18:43
Thanks Starchild,
"Sports is not only training for aggressiveness, but another way to segragate us"

In a similar way i've been pondering on the testosteronisation of sport and exploring if their are sports that are less aggressive and bring people together in love.
As part of this research i've discovered that in the competitive world of olympic sport there is not a male synchronised swimmers team. It would appear the world nations are aware of this and are in hot pursuit to develop a team for London 2012. The attached film shows the American Olympic synchronised swimmers in training.

3IbGdeyJkSU

Thank You Mahalall for the much need smile and laughter. If you watch it silently its actually quite beautifully orchestrated. With the sound up is a great comedy show.

mahalall
23rd October 2011, 21:02
mariosafe
"I remember one cold wet winter school day"
chiquetet
"appreciate the beauty of the game"
Lord Sid
"On my fathers side, we hail from Manchester and I supported United for years.
I even remember seeing Match of the Day with Law, Best and Charlton still playing for United"

These posts have taken me back in time

v3cayRMnVb8

Ellisa
23rd October 2011, 21:53
Although I live in Australia I don't watch much sport and I haven't played for years, but I have to say thank you to mahalall for the seriously funny Swimming team. For me Synchronised Swimming epitomises the essence of all sport. That is, it is really difficult to do well, requires tons of practice, good health and athleticism are essential, and it is basically quite useless.

The video will become one of my favourites. I have watched it twice already and it's still funny. It also does have a point as it highlights the inherent quality of sport which is basically to amuse and divert us, whilst allowing us a few hours to vent aggression whether as a player or spectator. The Roman Emperors knew that!

markoid
23rd October 2011, 23:20
Sports in general seemed to get ruined when they became professional and money came into the equation.
I was a mad keen surfer for 35 odd yrs and to me it was a very fulfilling pastime... very here and now... the sun and the ocean and the whole communion with nature thing was a blessing.

Carmen
24th October 2011, 01:02
We won!!! The All Blacks are the rugby world champions. A hard fought match from all accounts with the French. Score was 9/8.

A group of us was interviewed this morning by TVNZ because we had put up in our town a tribute to Richie McCaw and a welcome to rugby world cup visitors. Richie came from Kurow and his first coach is my next door neighbour. The tribute was in the form of huge round bales of hay with a black figure on it and all the other teams colours. After the match was won we erected a huge replica of cup on the very top of the bales.

What the interviewer was not to know is that I have no interest in rugby and did not watch the match! I wanted a win for the All Blacks as the whole country would have gone into mourning if we had lost. I knew we were going to win and I knew the score would be close.

I have not read all the posts here but get the gist that it's sort of anti sport. I think sport has a very excellent role to play in this 3d world. What better way for warrior types to have an expression of their aggressiveness that also has some rules to play by. Top sportsmen and women are generally well balanced clear minded individuals who are an inspiration to others. The overly aggressive competitive types actually do not last that well. They burn out.

Guest
24th October 2011, 03:32
Sports in general seemed to get ruined when they became professional and money came into the equation.
I was a mad keen surfer for 35 odd yrs and to me it was a very fulfilling pastime... very here and now... the sun and the ocean and the whole communion with nature thing was a blessing.

I did a lot of dawn patrol.... I haven't surfed as long as you have though -pretty darn cool sitting on a surfboard in the water watching a sunset or having seal or dolphin catch a wave with you.

The martial arts are meant to be a good discipline -but as usual that has turned competitive and in some instances a bloody sport.

Nora

we are all related

markoid
24th October 2011, 06:43
I have not read all the posts here but get the gist that it's sort of anti sport. I think sport has a very excellent role to play in this 3d world. What better way for warrior types to have an expression of their aggressiveness that also has some rules to play by. Top sportsmen and women are generally well balanced clear minded individuals who are an inspiration to others. The overly aggressive competitive types actually do not last that well. They burn out.

That's a really good point you make Carmen... well said.
I watched the match and it was a hard fought win.... congrats to NZ collectively :).
Rugby union is just about the most brutal contact sport eva!!... and yet I still enjoy the "big matches".... go figure :noidea:

Black Panther
24th October 2011, 16:19
I've thought about sports too for some time. A lot of money involved and it's always about being the best. An old video of a Dutch cabaret couple about playing joypong in stead of pingpong. The language is Dutch, but you get the picture.

PKOqi2rb-eE

Eagle
24th October 2011, 16:25
We have become a society of entertainment just like the Greeks and Romans. The amount of money spent for our entertainment could feed the world twice over. It is a distraction and a hollow shell of what it originally was intended for.

Kano
24th October 2011, 16:29
As most Germans, I love soccer. I usually don't count goals when I play, that distracts me and doesn't interest me. Of course I'm eager to score goals, but I see the game as a celebration of beauty, as a dance with the ball. When it comes to the other team, it's like a dancing contest, where one shows off and the other answers, they push each other, I appreciate this, because we are full of potential yet sometimes we tend to be sloppy, if there is no challenge. At the end, I'm satisfied when both teams had a nice challenge and just appreciate the beauty of the game without being attached to the score board in any way. I like playing without goals just like that also, but it's much easier to find people for a game with teams. I have to say, that I have met very few people, who could see soccer the way I see it. The essence to me is: It's not the game, that is this or that, it's how we deal with it.

Anyways, I fully agree, that conquering one's own ego is way more important than being a little faster than someone of winning over another team.

Joga Bonito!

I grew up playing competitive soccer (and still do) and I share your sentiment about the dance. Thanks for articulating so well.

Cheers,
Kano