The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project

[OnyxKnight]

I believe most if not all of you have heard about this movement, and about the proposed solutions to the corrupt system we live in today.

What I am interested in is, your thoughts, and your opinions (pro and contra) about the movement and the project and why.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with this, but almost 90% of the material in the Zeitgeist Movies has been "borrowed" from the research material of Jordan Maxwell by the creator of the movies, Peter Joseph. I don't think it matters much, as long as the information is out in the public domain for people to be able to reach it.

What do you think of the movement, and the project itself? Have you heard of similar projects (they can be discussed here too)? How do we get to a system like the Venus Project? How do we make the transition? Any thoughts that would fill the holes in the ideas behind the movement and the project (yes, I'm not gonna pretend they aren't any) are very much welcome.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

http://www.futurebydesignthemovie.com/ (http://www.futurebydesignthemovie.com/)

http://www.thevenusproject.com


PS: I thought this is the most obvious place to post the thread. If it isn't, please move it to wherever you think it should be placed.

[Dale]

It's funny to see how many of these new Youtube videos and movements are based on the research of Jordan Maxwell. Having read the majority of the work he offers, as well as several of Manly P. Hall's publications, I can certainly sympathize with Maxwell and the late M. P. Hall. They're probably the two most plagiarized researchers in the esoteric field.

Anyway, I "did my homework" on the Venus Project earlier this year and I find it to be a very interesting idea. Yes, it's not perfect, but it's much better than the hideous system we have in place today. The most notable flaw, or weakness, in the Venus Project would have to be the transition. How are we going to transition into this system after living, for the past few centuries, as a global economy based on scarcity and control?

[dreamchaser]

I think its an excelleny idea aswell. But when I was in a zeitgeist chatroom I saw something about money donations being accepted. Dont remember where i saw it posted though. So I asked one of the chatroom members what they thought about a resource based plan for the world, and why they would be looking for money. The response seemed like a joke saying something like to remove 'money as an influence one needs a lot of it.'

I dont believe it can possibly work like that. And maybe its NOT down the founders idea to be looking for money. I dont know, and Im not gonna guess. But I cant help wondering if Venus and Zeitgeist are compromised.

Ive believed for quite a while now that money just gets in the way of people having a good life. its very simple for me. if there is no money there is no money problems! :D So much could change, and very quickly without money getting in the way.

I thought, years ago, what if nobody had to get up, and go to a job that they had no choice to do if they wanted money to eat, pay bills, buy clothes, have shelter. What if nobody HAD to get up just to live? What if we could do what we want instead of what we HAVE to? Of course there might still be doctors, lawyers, engineers. There might be people who WANT to help people instead of HAVE to help! There might still be people who WANT to grow food to feed people. There might still be people who WANT to help people have a home to live in. Who dares to imagine a world where we can do what we WANT instead of have some nameless faceless power MAKE us do what THEY want and for nobodies good except a small few?

[PathWalker]

Dear readers,

I find the Venus project as dangerous as the New World Order (maybe it is run by the same operators).
Any government system that is central (a few millions city with a government is still a central regime), is bounded to be corrupt and oppressive.

The only hope for a real spiritual change, in conscious awakening, accepting that we are one, thous responsible to each other.
Technology is not required at all.

The Venus project is selling us the socialistic theme warped with hi-tech.
If you buy it better go live in China or North Korea.

Enjoy your freedom and liberty while it last. When you are offered to trade it, be sure you going to be enslaved.

Watch this excellent video from the 1948: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh75ylAUXY&feature=player_embedded

Good luck with selling your liberties.

[Luke]

I find the Venus project as dangerous as the New World Order (maybe it is run by the same operators).
Any government system that is central (a few millions city with a government is still a central regime), is bounded to be corrupt and oppressive.
[...]
The Venus project is selling us the socialistic theme warped with hi-tech.
If you buy it better go live in China or North Korea.
[...]
More or less my own thoughts.
To close to Platonic "city-states of philosopher-kings"

[Dale]

It's very possible that if the Venus Project, or a similar plan, were somehow set in place today, that an oppressive, socialist government system could result.


The only hope for a real spiritual change, in conscious awakening, accepting that we are one, thous responsible to each other.

I believe that what you stated above needs to happen before we co-create a new society. If we don't have a "conscious awakening," or a similar expansion of consciousness, it would be incredibly hard to have a conscious society. And without a conscious society, socialist states and dictatorships flourish. I believe we need to first work on ourselves before we begin designing an idealistic society. Expand our individual consciousness'. An initiative, similar to the Venus Project, could provide grounds for a much more spiritual and cohesive society - Only after we, as a civilization, clean up our own acts'.

[Arpheus]

Enjoy your freedom and liberty while it last. When you are offered to trade it, be sure you going to be enslaved.
Lol that quote made me laugh hard sorry,but there is absolutely zero truth in that quote do you realize that?What freedom and what liberty?I dont feel i got any freedom or any liberty nowadays period,if you feel that way you must be in dreamland my friend,we dont have any freedom,we bow and obey we dont do jack to change anything,and when i say we i am generally speaking of course,i am talking about most of the population around the globe,people are brainwashed living their lives under mind control systems and your saying to enjoy freedom and liberty?I will enjoy freedom and liberty when this whole system fails and collapses within itself and it will happen because nothing lasts forever,i am sorry mate but when i read those lines it set me on fire heh.:couch2:

[Deega]

Hi OnxKnight,

To let you know that a similar Tread was openned up by Etherios May 9th at the following link. The Eherios one may give you other information.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?t=1962

All my blessings.

Deega

[LindyLou22]

My impression of the Zeitgeist show is that the first half is the Illuminati bragging and the 2nd half is an attempt to discredit Christianity. All that son/sun stuff is stupid--try that in French.

[NancyV]

The Zeitgeist agenda is beautifully seductive and appeals to many who would like to see this world be a loving and "fair" place. It's sort of like the old hippie commune ideal taken to another level and embellished with lovely high tech possessions, all FREE. We would presumably have the time to spend developing our artistic and creative side if we didn't have to slave away to provide the necessary funds needed to buy all these pretty things.

Since all the worlds resources would be the equal inheritance of all the world's people, we would supposedly all be entitled to our "share". Who decides who gets what? Therein lies one of the problems. Who tells whom what work and how much work they have to do to produce and maintain these things? Whenever you have a system where some people are telling others what they get and what to do, human nature intervenes and a hierarchical structure develops, leading inevitably to corruption and abuse of power.

A Utopian society such as Zeitgeist proposes simply will not work as long as human nature is what it is: competitive, territorial, aggressive, violent, acquisitive, possessive, controlling and materialistic, to name a few of our traits. We also are loving, kind, talented, imaginative, creative, supportive and spiritually powerful. We cannot deny our dual natures. You can try, but it won't work for long.

The Zeitgeist philosophy would like to deny our dual nature and count on our more positive traits to allow us all to live in peace and harmony. It will not work unless they give everyone drugs to keep them complacent and happy. They will not be able to change who people are no matter how good it sounds to everyone. I prefer to embrace my dualistic nature and be grateful for who I am and not who I think I "should" be. Our dual nature actually makes us more powerful spiritually. If you have traveled in other dimensions and planes of existence you will know that it often takes great courage and willpower. It's not like you're eternally sitting around playing music and singing Kumbaya.....at least not until you reach the source.

Nancy

[Ba-ba-Ra]

My belief is that the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project have great merit. I feel we've been brainwashed into believing a Utopia is a pollyanna idea that is not possible. Is it possible that just thinking that thought is holding us all back. Perhaps in order to see it, we have to first believe it. Can we let go of our old thought patterns?

As far as Peter Joseph taking others ideas: Isn't it often said that there are no new ideas, simply new ways of presenting them.

Yes, a consciousness transformation needs to take place, but what if Carl Calleman is right?.... that the Mayan Calendar is predicting that this coming time is a time for Unity Consciousness. Maybe the fertile soil is being offered to us by the Universe, but we still need to begin to prepare and plant it. The Venus Project is planting a new possibility. Instead of finding what's wrong with it, let us find what's right with it and take it where WE want it to go, not where the PTB want it to go. I truly believe that deep down we are all just searching for peace and harmony. Let us reach out, touch and lose our separateness in our oneness. Love, Ba-ba-Ra

[HORIZONS]

Instead of finding what's wrong with it, let us find what's right with it and take it where WE want it to go, not where the PTB want it to go. I truly believe that deep down we are all just searching for peace and harmony. Let us reach out, touch and lose our separateness in our oneness. Love, Ba-ba-Ra

I think that this idea should be applied to anything and everything we are dealing with - what is wrong would then just fall by the wayside. There is nothing wrong with holding up a high ideal to gaze upon and envision as a new possibility for a creative living expression.

[Luke]

I will strongly advise to carefully think before you post something like "it's ok to be idealist"

Lenin was an idealist
Hitler was an idealist
Trotsky was an idealist
Che was idealist

All those men were mass murderers too.
See "Celine's Third Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws#Celine.27s_Third_Law)"

Beliefs matter. Stupid beliefs contradicting way reality works bring pain and suffering in feel-good package.
Careful what you wish for.
Zeitgeist is a trap.

[HORIZONS]

I will strongly advise to carefully think before you post something like "it's ok to be idealist"

Lenin was an idealist
Hitler was an idealist
Trotsky was an idealist
Che was idealist

All those men were mass murderers too.
See "Celine's Third Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws#Celine.27s_Third_Law)"

Beliefs matter. Stupid beliefs contradicting way reality works bring pain and suffering in feel-good package.
Careful what you wish for.
Zeitgeist is a trap.

So was every spiritual leader and philosopher the world has ever known - I guess it depends on the Ideal.
It is not that I am an advocate of Zeitgeist - I am not - but there is some good idealism in the idea of finding a way out of religious and governmental control.

[NancyV]

My belief is that the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project have great merit. I feel we've been brainwashed into believing a Utopia is a pollyanna idea that is not possible. Is it possible that just thinking that thought is holding us all back. Perhaps in order to see it, we have to first believe it. Can we let go of our old thought patterns?

As far as Peter Joseph taking others ideas: Isn't it often said that there are no new ideas, simply new ways of presenting them.

Yes, a consciousness transformation needs to take place, but what if Carl Calleman is right?.... that the Mayan Calendar is predicting that this coming time is a time for Unity Consciousness. Maybe the fertile soil is being offered to us by the Universe, but we still need to begin to prepare and plant it. The Venus Project is planting a new possibility. Instead of finding what's wrong with it, let us find what's right with it and take it where WE want it to go, not where the PTB want it to go. I truly believe that deep down we are all just searching for peace and harmony. Let us reach out, touch and lose our separateness in our oneness. Love, Ba-ba-Ra

On this level there is no "we", there is only you. Can you let go of your "brainwashing" enough to try peace/love? Can you live in harmony with others sharing everything equally or having someone else in control of giving you everything you want or need? Until you have tried it you won't know. I HAVE tried it and no matter how good our intentions were it did not work. I brainwashed myself into thinking that peace and harmony were possible with a group of people or a society. Then reality set in and I had to acknowledge that human nature is such that disagreements and many problems will arise on a continual basis. Our animal instincts will not be denied.

I began believing that we could live in peace and harmony about 43 years ago and tried many different things. Finally I saw how unrealistic and actually ignorant (stupid) it was to think that human beings can change their very core nature because of a philosophical ideal. Show us one society where this has every worked. You can't.....because it has not worked. If you point out some remote village in Tibet where you "think" they are living in peace and harmony, you won't know that for a fact until you live within that society and see what truly is going on beneath the possibly placid surface. Even in a Buddhist community which was nearby where I lived for a time there were ugly things seething beneath the surface, sometimes to boil to the top and become visible. It doesn't matter whether you base your community/society on a philosophy or a religion, you can't force or coerce everyone to change enough to be constantly loving, sharing, peaceful and content. This is the reality. The Zeitgeist philosophy and ideals are at best wishful thinking which denies the reality of the human psyche, and at worst a possibly evil agenda of control.

Of course one is individually free to try anything they like, but they will not successfully force others to conform to what their philosophy or religion dictates is the correct way for them to behave. I don't agree that a "consciousness transformation needs to take place". We each have the tools and the ability to transform our own consciousness. We don't need to wait for 2012 and something or someone else to do it for us. As for changing everyone else, how about minding our own business and not worrying about getting them to change. Just think, if all the energy one expended trying to change other people was instead spent on going inward and finding all questions and answers for oneself, one would most likely make great progress.

Nancy

[FrankoL]

Pre planed ideas are not good ones. It is already an agenda. Start with yourself (I did) and rest will follow. Lets see what happen.

[NancyV]

Pre planed ideas are not good ones. It is already an agenda. Start with yourself (I did) and rest will follow. Lets see what happen.

Thanks, FrankoL, it took you two sentences to say what I said in 3 paragraphs!

Nancy :)

[PathWalker]

Pre planed ideas are not good ones. It is already an agenda. Start with yourself (I did) and rest will follow. Lets see what happen.

Very good quote.
If you want a living sample of the Zietgest utopia, observe the Kibutz settelments movement in Israel (there are about 50 Kibutz setelments) that started as the most socialistic way of life in the 40tis. It is crumbling now with differential salaries and property distribution.

I would add to the quote that hell or heaven are within. You (me as well) create your reality.
Study the 12 laws of Karma to master your reality and experience. http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/12/12-laws-of-karma.html

Joy and happiness
PathWalker

[lunaflare]

Some good points Nancy and we certainly do have the tools and ability to transform our own consciousness (and hence our projected reality)...
You also wrote,
"our animal instincts will not be denied"...
I must say that I diverge on this point.
animals do not live/work for profit and gain and nor do they concern themselves with money, money, money and more, more, more...

I recall the Venus Project as being mechanical and digitalized; technologically based and machine-like.
This aspect is not appealing to me. The more removed we are from Nature- I opine-the more we, as a species, are removed from our hearts. our feeling selves.
There is also plenty of evidence to suggest the eerie use of nanotechnology with the "digitalizing" of the human being. Synthetic Nano particles pervade the air, food, plastics, pharmaceuticals, vaccines...
(for more info one of many sources is www.naturalnews.com)

No need for money, less mechanical and organic earth based would be my preference.

[Etherios]

Well first step to all of the above is free energy. If you dont use oil / gas / nuclear power / etc etc etc and have enough FREE (no money cost... ) energy then everything will stop being a problem.

With unlimited power we can even make hydroponic farms in deserts... we can take sea water and clean it up to make drinkable water. We can ... do amazing things. the technology exists these are not wishful thinking... what we lack and we dont do all the above is PROFIT. We cant make human society stop thinking that way ... so i wish we get free energy released ... then ppl will start thinking that money isnt so important ... eventually.

Imagine how much it will cost to make anything ... from food to spaceships if you take off the energy needed ... (it will cost nothing). The cost of living will be crushed to almost nothing. I am sure with unlimited free energy alot of new inventions will appear and make our lives even better.

Energy is what control us. Thus why they will try to stop free energy for ever... everything we do has a conection to energy, requires energy to work or to be produced. All we need is that...

p.s. i agree that The Venus project is way too computerized for my liking.. especially the big moon computer that will think for us and react to what we and the planet need. That like taking the thinking of ppl and to the AI's...

[Luke]

[...]
No need for money, less mechanical and organic earth based would be my preference.

Before you start to vilify a tool, you better read "Francisco's Money Speech (http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/economics/money/1826-Franciscos-Money-Speech.html)"

So you think that money is the root of all evil? (...)
Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?
Another example of how big the minefield is, and what amount of stupid ideas we consider "good ones". Ideas have consequences.

[FrankoL]

Well first step to all of the above is free energy. If you dont use oil / gas / nuclear power / etc etc etc and have enough FREE (no money cost... ) energy then everything will stop being a problem.

With unlimited power we can even make hydroponic farms in deserts... we can take sea water and clean it up to make drinkable water. We can ... do amazing things. the technology exists these are not wishful thinking... what we lack and we dont do all the above is PROFIT. We cant make human society stop thinking that way ... so i wish we get free energy released ... then ppl will start thinking that money isnt so important ... eventually.

Imagine how much it will cost to make anything ... from food to spaceships if you take off the energy needed ... (it will cost nothing). The cost of living will be crushed to almost nothing. I am sure with unlimited free energy alot of new inventions will appear and make our lives even better.

Energy is what control us. Thus why they will try to stop free energy for ever... everything we do has a conection to energy, requires energy to work or to be produced. All we need is that...

p.s. i agree that The Venus project is way too computerized for my liking.. especially the big moon computer that will think for us and react to what we and the planet need. That like taking the thinking of ppl and to the AI's...

I agree with you totally. I think that free energy would change our life and world. This would be the best start (in my opinion only possible). No ET & conspiracy disclosure nor new religion & politics will help masses to realize the world we live in. I suspect that 2012 propaganda, the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project are the time buyers. Just like telling a kid: "I will buy you a candy tomorrow" Yes sure, ... Meaning never!

This concept is always struggling one against another. On free energy there is no discussion. You have it or not. Problem is there is no start. No free energy up to now. Maybe it is not possible. This is the point we should investigate and put extra effort.

[jimmer]

On this level there is no "we", there is only you. Can you let go of your "brainwashing" enough to try peace/love? Can you live in harmony with others sharing everything equally or having someone else in control of giving you everything you want or need? Until you have tried it you won't know. I HAVE tried it and no matter how good our intentions were it did not work. I brainwashed myself into thinking that peace and harmony were possible with a group of people or a society. Then reality set in and I had to acknowledge that human nature is such that disagreements and many problems will arise on a continual basis. Our animal instincts will not be denied.

I began believing that we could live in peace and harmony about 43 years ago and tried many different things. Finally I saw how unrealistic and actually ignorant (stupid) it was to think that human beings can change their very core nature because of a philosophical ideal. Show us one society where this has every worked. You can't.....because it has not worked. If you point out some remote village in Tibet where you "think" they are living in peace and harmony, you won't know that for a fact until you live within that society and see what truly is going on beneath the possibly placid surface. Even in a Buddhist community which was nearby where I lived for a time there were ugly things seething beneath the surface, sometimes to boil to the top and become visible. It doesn't matter whether you base your community/society on a philosophy or a religion, you can't force or coerce everyone to change enough to be constantly loving, sharing, peaceful and content. This is the reality. The Zeitgeist philosophy and ideals are at best wishful thinking which denies the reality of the human psyche, and at worst a possibly evil agenda of control.

Of course one is individually free to try anything they like, but they will not successfully force others to conform to what their philosophy or religion dictates is the correct way for them to behave. I don't agree that a "consciousness transformation needs to take place". We each have the tools and the ability to transform our own consciousness. We don't need to wait for 2012 and something or someone else to do it for us. As for changing everyone else, how about minding our own business and not worrying about getting them to change. Just think, if all the energy one expended trying to change other people was instead spent on going inward and finding all questions and answers for oneself, one would most likely make great progress.

Nancy

well said, nancy.
I watch the movie the other day. very disturbing, indeed.
your point about our dualistic nature is solid thinking.
utopia can only exist in the mind.

without an overarching structure (as overbearing as it maybe), the fabric of a civil society would be nonexistent or at least, pulled apart.

your thoughts are comforting to me as they are insightful and realistic (a real commodity, nowadays.)

so, big picture, have a good and productive life -- enjoy the ride, anxiety free (as possible).

[NancyV]

well said, nancy.
I watch the movie the other day. very disturbing, indeed.
your point about our dualistic nature is solid thinking.
utopia can only exist in the mind.

without an overarching structure (as overbearing as it maybe), the fabric of a civil society would be nonexistent or at least, pulled apart.

your thoughts are comforting to me as they are insightful and realistic (a real commodity, nowadays.)

so, big picture, have a good and productive life -- enjoy the ride, anxiety free (as possible).
Hey Jimmer, speaking of enjoying the ride I like to occasionally watch this short 3 minute video of
Bill Hicks: It's Just a Ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0&feature=related
I'm sure many on here have seen it but if not, it's fun!

Nancy :)

[Bryn ap Gwilym]

The old religions are broken so the PTB invent a brand new one, aka zeitgeist.
Zeitgeist is a cult invented by the illuminati/PTb. The guy at the heart of it is Jason Lucas a computer programmer for the USA government/NSA, with links to Mi6 & Tavistock.
He is also behind spyware programmes, one being eula files. He also owns the website Godlike productions.

Zeitgeist is the NWO's religion & they are conning folk big time.

Please do your research before you are taken in by the NWO cult!

Zeitgeist + Helena Blavatsky + Theology + Socialism + Fabian Society motto = Today the international symbol of the Fabian Society is a turtle, with the motto below: “When I strike, I strike hard.”

[Etherios]

The old religions are broken so the PTB invent a brand new one, aka zeitgeist.
Zeitgeist is a cult invented by the illuminati/PTb. The guy at the heart of it is Jason Lucas a computer programmer for the USA government/NSA, with links to Mi6 & Tavistock.
He is also behind spyware programmes, one being eula files. He also owns the website Godlike productions.

Zeitgeist is the NWO's religion & they are conning folk big time.

Please do your research before you are taken in by the NWO cult!

i guess you didnt read the posts... most here are not joining the movement... we are saying that there beliefs are good. What they say and what they do is 2 different things.

[RedeZra]

I think the Venus Project is written in the Georgia Guidestones

it's about controling and clutching the people together and to leave room for nature

what the elite don't tell

is the implanted chip connected to the computer

and that each elite will rule a city like a feudal lord

---

the Zeitgeist is an attempt to mock God but God will not be mocked

[jimmer]

the venus project/zeitgeist movement looks to be a pure utopian wet dream.
take a look at this 'perfect city' designed by the venus project founder.

cool design, but it looks pretty owellian to me.

utopian socialism
noun
socialism achieved by the moral persuasion of capitalists to surrender the means of production peacefully to the people.


2060

[Luke]

the venus project/zeitgeist movement looks to be a pure utopian wet dream.
take a look at this 'perfect city' designed by the venus project founder.

cool design, but it looks pretty owellian to me.

Ever wondered why there is a moat, walls and gates in this design?
Control structure, all the way.

If you want to see something similar, watch Equilibrium (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/)
When someone says people will live in "harmony", better ask what price is.

[Bryn ap Gwilym]

i guess you didnt read the posts... most here are not joining the movement... we are saying that there beliefs are good. What they say and what they do is 2 different things.

I did read them sir.
How can their beliefs be good when their whole philosophy is based on a lie?
How can their beliefs be good when when at the root of this money making cult are the exact same people that everyone here is opposed too. Illuminati, NWO & corrupt government & corporations.

There are no good things about zeitgeist. Overlooking all the bad things & focusing on the their alleged good bits is massive hypocritical. How can folk call themselves awake, enlightened when they openly turn a blind eye to the horrors around them?

I suggest folk research before promoting this NWO cult. I have already given you a name "Jason Lucas".

[kouby]

The amount of paranoïa in this thread is really amazing.
This guy actually says, it's his main argument at the moment, that with the current mind frame it would be impossible to put his project into place and expect good results. He puts the emphasis on EDUCATION, that's why the first part of the project is media-based.
His main argument is that if a city was put in place and we just transferred some people there, the same errors would creep back in. It is NOT POSSIBLE to just build a new society system without enormous educational reform.
I'm not just focusing on "banker-types" and corrupt politicians and the like, we all have to learn a lot more and keep an open mind here before just blowing of someone's idea.

Let's face it, when you start going into conspiracy research and the like, you automatically become more paranoid, it's logical. When you shatter a certain mind frame because you suddenly realise that some of it is based on lies or misunderstanding or misuse, your automatic reaction is to reject the whole mind frame. This is not logical, it's natural, but it's not logical.

Just like believing someone just because he made a relatively good youtube video, believing every project or organisation is "evil" because we've found out by the past that some were, is not really rational.

Is every banker a crooked madman who would sell his mother for a few bucks? Is every politician mad for control and domination? Is every conspiracy theorist right? Is every young revolutionary only motivated by the betterment of mankind?
I don't think so.

What would YOUR mind frame be if you had been brought up in nazi germany by loving parents who were totally convinced that Hitler was a good guy coming to save your country after a war that destroyed people's lives? What would your life be like if you had been brought up by extremely wealthy people, always having everything you dreamed of and thinking that you had a "right" to everything?

What I see when I watch a Venus Project video is a lot of good points made about the excess of our current society and a plausible response to these problems.
Jacques admits openly that the project needs LOTS more work, but I think he is right in believing that an "ideal society" like his is totally impossible without enormous educational reform. And I am quite convinced by the basic idea that changing someone's environment will change that person.
Please take into account that he has never said anything along the lines of "my idea is perfect, eat it or get out, this is the new world order coming". He admits it needs a LOT more work, and the most important work is on ourselves.

Again, the one thing that really gets me is permanent paranoia and the "new age" wave of "everything is planned, so let's just relax and watch the show". And they are extremely linked. If you are totally paranoid you close doors for yourself, if you think everything is programmed, you basically end up totally apathetic.

The change is now, as it was yesterday, as it will be tomorrow. We are the change, everybody is. This is not new, and it will never be old.

Then again he might be working for Hitler's descendants, I might be totally wrong. But from what I've seen about it, this project is a plausible alternative to the current consumer based society, and at least it has the merit of existing. I don't see anyone here planning out a new society system and working out the kinks taking into account human nature and past historical and sociological information.
At least there's this guy who is trying.

Maybe he's wrong, maybe he's right, but at least he's trying, which is a lot more than I see on a day to day basis in life.

ps: for those wanting to link jacques fresco to Raelites, check facts before argumenting, there is one enormous flaw in the logic: Rael LOVES money, he says "people who say money is bad are poor, and it's 'well done for them'", whereas Jacques Fresco wants to destroy the economic system basically... How do you logically tie these two people together?

[gryphynsclaw]

As stated by NancyV embracing the duality IMO is key.
Quite frankly I would not contribute to a society where people believed it is their right to do nothing and still to have everything. This ideal is living on the backs of other, or pretty much what the powers that be are doing now. Nor do I wish machines or anything else doing my thinking or deciding what is best for me.
Everyone wants to think that their beliefs and ideas are right, at which point they take steps to convince others they are right. Which is probably more of a ego boosting affirmation then anything else. Which leads to the idea of power which leads to control which leads to mental illness.

To live a Utopian life requires independent thought, minding your own business, taking responsibility and having initiative. At some point people will realize they are responsible for the world by being responsible for themselves. Living with out an ego driven existence, where helping others is done because you know it will help you as well.

We are all the things Nancy listed and more, using our spirit and mind to utilize each of them in the appropriate areas and time will change the world.

Brad

[Etherios]

As stated by NancyV embracing the duality IMO is key.
Quite frankly I would not contribute to a society where people believed it is their right to do nothing and still to have everything. This ideal is living on the backs of other, or pretty much what the powers that be are doing now. Nor do I wish machines or anything else doing my thinking or deciding what is best for me.
Everyone wants to think that their beliefs and ideas are right, at which point they take steps to convince others they are right. Which is probably more of a ego boosting affirmation then anything else. Which leads to the idea of power which leads to control which leads to mental illness.

To live a Utopian life requires independent thought, minding your own business, taking responsibility and having initiative. At some point people will realize they are responsible for the world by being responsible for themselves. Living with out an ego driven existence, where helping others is done because you know it will help you as well.

We are all the things Nancy listed and more, using our spirit and mind to utilize each of them in the appropriate areas and time will change the world.

Brad

If i understand you correct you mean that we shouldnt use technology to make our lives easier? That if we get to the point that machines do all the work for us and we just enjoy the results is bad?

I hope thats not what you mean ... Living acting humans will never stand still and relax to nothing if they have everything taken care off. An educated person that doesnt have to worry about survival WILL use his energy to something productive. Dont buy into this societies way of thinking... be productive isnt working to make money. I am sure everyone of us know alot of really smart ppl that are wasting their lives working 2 jobs just to survive ... i am sure everyone knows ppl that have unused talents they ignore because it wont help them survive.

Technology SHOULD BE the tool to make every human beings lives easier and make survival something to know worry about. Then you will see wonders appearing out of nowhere etc. Yes this atm is utopian but Venus is an utopian project.

[gryphynsclaw]

Communication is not my strongest point, of this I am aware. You did not understand what I was trying to say.
technology is not a problem or an answer. If it does in fact make life easier with out us selling our souls then by all means use it.
However to totally rely on anything or one, taking your self out of the equation I believe is foolish and how the world ended up as it is now.

Brad

[Luke]

I would urge people that fall for such "solutions" to think about ramifications of technology.

It never exist in vacuum.

It is always an effect of moral paradigm underlying the society.

If one even considers centrally-planned economy to be viable solution, ignoring all the deathtoll reaped by such schemes in the past, then I say it says something about his analytical skills.

It was thought that such thinking received death-blow after fall of Iron curtain, and revealing of the state of society there.. yet old-time Marxists just changed camouflage to this, logic be damned.
And guess they still can find followers.

Sadly.

Careful what you wish for!

[kouby]

So... Technology is not an answer?

Where does the water you drink come from? Your water pipes are technology, old-school technology maybe, but still technology.
How come we live past the age of 30 nowadays?
Why is your fridge full of food?
How come you've got a wonderful thing to keep your food nice and non-rotting? (yeah, your effing fridge!)
What about this good ol' thing called the interwebz? Isn't that thing full of child porn and zoophilia? Isn't it the Illuminatis controlling hand you installed willingly into your household?

Come on a second, stop living in fear, this is supposed to be the whole point.

NO TECHNOLOGY IS "EVIL", ONLY HUMANS CAN HAVE THAT CREATIVITY.

[Spiritus]

I agree with Kouby, there is a lot of (imo) misplaced paranoia about The Venus project in this thread.

I've seen lot's of movies, read lot's of documents about the subject, and did never detect even the slightest chance of it being a "planned" "NWO" project.

This is just the work of a man, capable of critical and problem-solving thinking.

(btw Ché might have been a murderer, but he'll always be an hero in my eyes)

I agree strongly, that every person is dualistic in nature, and has the capacity of feeling and expressing extreme differences in emotions. But they have to be TRIGGERED. The impact of context on the individual is phenomenal, Criminals are almost every single time the result of a bad environment. Nature nurture, very important!

Saying it's an utopia, is understandable, but I would urge you to inform yourself deeper into the subject. Seeing how healthy people become sick due to there society (environment), is quite depressing to watch. And you can see it every day.

//update
I think we all want the same thing in the end, and I'm glad to see that there are so many things going on, on so many different fronts, it's like a spontaneous reaction in the people beaus life is so full of **** these days.
Awesome :)


Peace!

[Spiritus]

the venus project/zeitgeist movement looks to be a pure utopian wet dream.
take a look at this 'perfect city' designed by the venus project founder.

cool design, but it looks pretty owellian to me.

utopian socialism
noun
socialism achieved by the moral persuasion of capitalists to surrender the means of production peacefully to the people.


It saddens me, to hear a project like that be dismissed so easily.
It really does.

Inform yourself, learn, and THEN create an opinion about it. not the other way around, how else are we gonna get an hold of the $h!t that's being put in our heads ;)

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I am about to watch the 3rd one...

[Etherios]

For those that talk about NWO... ill just say this. The Venus Project will never be established so dont worry.

Now for philosophical thought ... Some points it has that we must find a way to make them work.

1st resourse economy.
2nd machines work for humans (just to make our lives easy not to "handle" us.).
3rd REAL education.
4th Endurance (ALL products should be made to last and recycled)

there might be a few more here ... You all have to stop killing off ideas just because you dont agree with how they are said to be implemented. 1 world goverment is a must if we ever want to leave earth as a race... but ofc the NWO Global Gov is wrong...

Ideas and proposals for a better future are not bad ... we make them bad.

[vortex surfer]

I've seen the "Zeitgeist, moving foreward" and have a few points:

- I see a lot of good points raised (not new points, but still) regarding the total lack of long-time substainability caused by the present economic system.

- I too agree that the monetary system can and should be replaced. After all, we put it there. If you draw up a list of good and bad consequences that money has caused, my bet is that one list will be far longer than the other.

- The monetary system is based on private property, ownership and a materialistic outlook on life. I've become more in tune with the idea of stewardship, which is basically our role on this planet. We're in a way simply passing through (no matter how you view what happens afterwards). To learn and experience, but also to care for this place while we're here and for those who are to come.

- I agree with lunaflare that the project has elements of being too mechanical and digitalized. Yes, it might be more effective and less intrusive on the environment, but it feels a bit artificial. What, machines do all the work while humans just go around being creative and playful? Isn't part of being creative the actual process of building/making something? And it's not like all people are of the same mindset. A lot of people acutally do enjoy building, maintanence, etc and are very skilled in doing it. A healthy society consists of people doing all sorts of things to contribute. You can talk about being efficient vs. being wasteful, but efficiency also has a bad, corparate taste in a way - at least in Zeitgeists mechanized view.

- I'm I the only one getting a bit annoyed that solar and wind-power (and some tidal) are presented as the main solutions to the energy problem? In my mind, we could've dealt with the energy problem yesterday. The technology is there - cold fusion, wireless electricity a'la Tesla and efficient water-powered engines (not to mention the potential of anti-gravity and other exotic, so-called free energy-devices, even though they also might represent great danger in the wrong hands).

- Finally, I think the society being suggested is not unrealistic to a degree, but it becomes just too sterile. Mostly this is due to the mechanized and "all-scientific" approach to everything. Humans can't make any decisions, "let the Almighty Calculator do the math first". Science is usually presented as the answer - unambiguous and ever self-correcting regarding the true nature of things - but if history has taught us anything it is that science goes as far as the humans doing it. One thing is what science and numbers tell us, what humans interpret and choose to make out of those results can be another thing entirely. There also seems to be no room for spirituality, and that's the main way of changing things. More education, yes. But as many have mentioned, we have to change in more ways than just being knowledgeable.

[uncleroach]

I agree with kouby and vortex surfer completly.

We do need to work on ourselvs first. and the first step towards the planet in better shape is to improve education drasticly (we should put a clas in morality and frendly behaviour in schools, and some kinde of spirituality - not religion - class too), and destroy all of the oil mafia companies that are braking the progres of the human race for last 70 years at least, and get that plans fot zero point module, that I belive is present on this planet in human hands. When we will be free from oil and our children and us educated more than we can imagine now, than it will be time for starting something like project venus, because the society will be ready to emberace something like that. But that is a long run, because powers at be will not let go so easily we can see that in Egipt right now. If we are to hope to achive that in our life time (50 some years) we should start revolting now, and we would still need devine intervention in a way of consesnus shift, which is already slowly hapening (or I am only moving in more enlightened circules nowdays - hope not). If that is realy on the way then we might have a shot in changin our planet to the better, if not we will have much tougher job in achieving this goal, and it'll take some time more.

Best of luck to us all.

p.s. : Sory for my english it has been a while since I wrote in it.
p.p.s.: The Vatikan lybrary should also be put on full public display

[BlueHusky]

I too have recently come across the Venus Project. I never heard of it before until a couple days ago somehow coming across a short video online and then to their website.

In order to make a rational judgment about a specific person or project, isn't it prudent to investigate as much as possible?

I utilize both critical reasoning and intuition with a particular subject. When it comes to people I tend to use more of an intuitive approach. For example, I watched a few videos of Jacque Frescoe and have a sense that he seems to be genuinely working towards a better world. I see him as an intelligent, insightful, sincere, free thinker, and possibly the characteristics of what some people call an "Indigo". FYI, I do not like the idea of putting people in boxes or titles, its just a reference point for others to get the gist of the concept. I see Jacque as an early innovator, a system buster (listen to his personal story as a child), one who has a vision for the future, who has an understanding that when we are born into this world we are molded by social norms and programing. We become a product of our environment, just has Jacque so eloquently illustrates in his speech.

The Fiat Money System
I'd like to point out that money has been a man made construct. Money has persisted for so long due to specific groups of individuals thousands of years ago, understood the power of turning resources into a currency system. These individuals found it to be a good method of control. Those who were in the elite groups, controlled the money supply e.g. royal bloodlines, pharaohs, kings, queens, popes etc. And it still pursuits today. Why does the fiat money system persist today? Because practically everyone in the world today has some identity attached to his or her money. Okay maybe not everyone, depending on culture and country. Many people from a young age are brought up to have an identity with money. You can't do this or do that without money, you have to slave away at a job in order to make any money, you have to go to the government run propaganda fed system i.e. public and private schools, rack up huge piles of college debt to keep you in the system longer, and buying into the brainwashing of you need to go to college, get a good job, find a wife/husband, get married, buy a house with a white picket fence, have 2.5 kids, and save up for retirement, then you can have your fun at 65. I digress.

Back to the Venus Project
The Venus Project appears to be a relatively good idea; however, initially I see that as a positive for people who may not have anywhere else to go e.g. a massive earth change that displaces people. I'm a person who likes my own space and would rather own my own land than to be in a commune type ecosystem. Perhaps that's a little ego in me. Isn't the main purpose of life to live co-creatively in the pursuit of one's own desires for the highest good of all concerned.

I must confess that I haven't read all his ebooks yet. Obviously this gentleman has put a ton of thought into this project. It may appear a bit futuristic to the laymen, but given the suppression of free energy technologies, or even technologies that are in public domain, it does look feasible to build. I'm also a bit reticent to have a cybernetic control center that runs everything. Perhaps my reticence is due to Hollywood movies, or perhaps I just see us humans as potential problems that could corrupt the system.

Jacque and some of you in this thread have noted that there needs to be massive education with how this system can work through the transition period. Money has been ingrained in us for so long that it almost seems impossible to have a world without a money system. Perhaps this will take a couple generations before the human populous is civilized enough to coexist within such a technological ecosystem.

I also wonder what would come of gold, sliver, and other precious metals. I understand that their value is based merely by human concepts, but do we earth beings have a tendency to barter for goods and services. My current thinking is that I don't see anything wrong with a barter system of goods as long as both parties are mutually happy. Maybe a transition to a barter system at first would be more obtainable to help convince people. With this model there should be no social class, just brothers and sisters living amongst each other.

Human Instincts
There is something else to consider. What about criminals or bad people? What do you do with them? I agree with Jacque when he mentions that there are no good or bad people, merely people who are shaped by their environment. That may be a little hard to wrap your head around, and it is for me too at times when there are people who seem to lack a heart. But are they born without a heart, or has that person undergone severe trauma/conditioning to think and behave a certain way.


Just some things to ponder.
I finally get to converse with like minded people. Its a bit difficult living with a family who has no understanding of these things. I've said enough, so I won't bore you with my private life. I do my best to keep a balance of being a realist and optimistic about the future. But, as I have learned, we should not concern ourselves too much with the past or future, but to live in the present moment.
Suggestion: a good book that i've learned from about the present is "The Peaceful Warrior" by Dan Millman. Good words of wisdom by a man called Socrates.


Seth

[jimmer]

from this interview with a venus project worker, the UN is involved.

if so, this is very disturbing.

the UN is behind the global chemtrail program and the NWO.

is the zeitgeist movement partnering with the UN?

if so, be very cautious what you accept as a good thing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lebxaz2v_og

[uncleroach]

@jimmer
In every institution you will find good and bad people. In nazi germani there were many people whom triet to kill A.H. but sadly failed. Also there can be bad people in good institutions there can be realy sick people like in Roman Chatolic Church there are pedofiles, which is totaly against what Jesus was talking about (also there is something terebly wrong with this institution, which should be helping people not taking money from them amongs other stuff).
What I'm traing to sey not everything is as it mey seem. Besides I'm for united world under one flag - flag of love and compation. Until we are not united, we shouldnt go to space at all.

[Arrowwind]

I think the Venus Project is written in the Georgia Guidestones

it's about controling and clutching the people together and to leave room for nature




Sounds like Agenda 21 as put out now in a manual from the United Nations..
google it, also look on youtube for what the nay sayers are saying

[jimmer]

@jimmer
In every institution you will find good and bad people. In nazi germani there were many people whom triet to kill A.H. but sadly failed. Also there can be bad people in good institutions there can be realy sick people like in Roman Chatolic Church there are pedofiles, which is totaly against what Jesus was talking about (also there is something terebly wrong with this institution, which should be helping people not taking money from them amongs other stuff).
What I'm traing to sey not everything is as it mey seem. Besides I'm for united world under one flag - flag of love and compation. Until we are not united, we shouldnt go to space at all.

with all due respect, UR, don't be an apologist for another UN-based global domination ploy.
progressively the UN is the problem, not the solution.

'venus project : from those wonderful folks who brought you chemtrails.'

[Etherios]

So anything that the UN or ppl that have some connection to the UN are saying is false and we should throw it away? This is like condemning ancient greek texts cause hitler was a huge fun of them ....

SOOO they are going to parties with the UN SOOOO? What they are saying have you taken the time to think about it? or you just listen to the ppl trying to debunk it?

It doesnt matter who is saying what.... it matters what they are saying. So your criticism is not valid for me sorry. Its now like we going to ever have this so dont worry relax...

[christian]

The Zeitgeist Movement leaves out a lot of information that should at least be mentioned before regarded as unnecessary, especially when it comes to humanity's origin.

Nevertheless there is a proposed solution, which makes it even more suspicious - sink line and hooker.

The solution seems to me like a technocracy. A giant computer manages a resource based economy. Thanks folks, I think consciousness is doing that job better.


Nevertheless Zeitgeist informs about a lot of important issues and opens minds for different views, possibilities and approaches.

[K626]

It's a scientific dictatorship and no mistake.

cheers

Lord Baron Shamen Ju Ju Batticus.

[buckminster fuller]

Pre planed ideas are not good ones. It is already an agenda. Start with yourself (I did) and rest will follow. Lets see what happen.

Very good quote.
If you want a living sample of the Zietgest utopia, observe the Kibutz settelments movement in Israel (there are about 50 Kibutz setelments) that started as the most socialistic way of life in the 40tis. It is crumbling now with differential salaries and property distribution.

I would add to the quote that hell or heaven are within. You (me as well) create your reality.
Study the 12 laws of Karma to master your reality and experience. http://yourfriendinspirit.blogspot.com/2007/12/12-laws-of-karma.html

Joy and happiness
PathWalker

the old individualist view... One must really be brainwashed too to understand socialism as a form of dictatorial leadership. Reminds me of MacArthurian's "commies hunt".. sad

[OnyxKnight]

NWO - Global dictatorship, amplifying the monetary system, with a global currency, power, control, exploitation, profit (from crime, drug trade, wars), global religion - to be able to get hold of people's heads.

Venus Project - No dictatorship or authority as seen today (The A.I. is only deciding on the best possible way to allocate and distribute resources, not people), decision making is based on entire population (not majority, aka democracy), and if diametrically different - compromised approach is introduced (i can elaborate). End of wars, crime (organized and otherwise), hunger, diseases, organized religion, slavery, exploitation, profit and monetary economics.

Since when does the NWO support end of capitalism, profit, money, and crime? If they do this, they loose everything. Without the money they hold no power or control.

I think the most ridiculous thing is one to connect the Venus Project with the NWO.

Agenda21 - PLEASE ... let's think straight here for a moment. The majority (if not all) Zeitgeist supporters think the overpopulation thing is a myth. And that there is no need for population control, and even less population reduction. Fresco himself mocked how other say the world is overpopulated and that there were not enough resources. I think even in the first movie. He said that it was BS.

I think most of you think of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project the things you want to link them to.

Yes, maybe the UN is in some way involved. With certain few people. you think all guys working in the government are evil? Or the people working at NASA?

I think we are more intelligent than the comments we make regarding these issues. These sound infantile, and its the main reason why the general populous laughs at us.

[buckminster fuller]

It's a scientific dictatorship and no mistake.

cheers

Lord Baron Shamen Ju Ju Batticus.

Already is, from an academic point of view there is room only for what fits in the current consensus. In antique greece, science and religion (more like spiritual philosophy) were really the same. The outcome of which has been one of the most philanthropical organization of society. The materialist view of science today makes it a dictatorship. Plus, scientists today are so "specialized" that they are just unable (for the most) to get passed intellectual orthodoxy. Science lacks creativity and goals. The venus project has it all.

[king anthony]

...Project would have to be the transition. How are we going to transition into this system after living, for the past few centuries, as a global economy based on scarcity and...?

As when a teacher cleans a chalkboard, the students become restless and agitated, until the new thoughts are written.

[Circe]

New Age Communism: The "Zeitgeist" Agenda

"Never give people the right to their own opinion!" - JACQUES FRESCO

The Venus Project is one of a "thousand points of light" softening brains and lowering guards for their big hoax of 2012.
After the negative reception Zeitgeist received for it's gratuitous anti-Christian content written by "Acharya S," we hoped that was the end of Zeitgeist.
This is the link for that article http://http://www.savethemales.ca/zeitgeist_movie_illuminati_exp.html
But a year later in 2008, filmmaker Peter Joseph was back with "Zeitgeist Addendum." (Joseph's real name seems to be P.J. Mercola.) This time P.J. seemed to kowtow to a wild eyed little old man named, Jacques Fresco.
Who is Peter Joseph? http://http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/who-is-peter-joseph/
Joseph said, " Zeitgeist is the activist arm of the Venus Project". The Venus Project is 94-year old control freak Jacques Fresco, born in the Bronx in 1917. It is associated with the UN and pushes the familiar Communist Illuminati agenda: forever concentrating wealth and power in the hands of the Rothschild Crime Syndicate until they have it all. [Communism is a ruse to disguise this control as "public" or State ownership.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjQtNuky36Q
http://http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=15161
In the words of Ernst Fischer, the Venus Project's "solution is Communism re-packaged to rope in the 21st century truth seeker." Here is a detailed comparison of the Zeitgeist philosophy and Communism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ApQSGezJBc&feature=player_detailpage#t=503s
Fischer Continues: "Fresco spoke at the 10th anniversary of the UN's Earth charter last year and subsequently attended Mikael Gorbachevs congress, which you will find on thevenusproject.com hidden away in the Netherlands section. Hell even if for some reason you think rubbing shoulders with those mid level elites is okay, what about frescos co-speaker Ervin Laszlo, (who he "spent time with") who FOUNDED the Club of Budapest, with Aurelio Peccei, founder of the CLUB OF ROME, full of lovely Illuminati globalists, who want a one world order, unified, worshiping the earth, under a new age religion. What about him being invited to dinner in the Dutch queen's palace? As in Queen Beatrix.... of Bilderberg.

Fresco, former member of the Communist party, wrote a book with Ken Keyes a while back. You don't just write a book with someone you barely know, so I might go so far as to say his good friend and colleague Keyes wrote a charming book called Planethood, go look it up. The book speaks not only of how the UN will fix the planet, but how they will install a One World Government "for the earth" Um, no thanks, what about the people? Or does Skynet just see us as more resources in the resource management program?"

"JACQUES FRESNO"

Fresno started out as an aircraft designer with a government contractor during the 1930's.

After WWII he founded Ravell Plastics. If you ever assembled model airplane kits you probably bought some of his products. If you were into model airplane kits in the 1950's-60's, you remember the powerful airplane glue in the box, and you may recall getting headaches or even passing out.

In Zeitgeist Addendum, Fresco shows his plastic model Utopia. He explains that all current social problems will be solved by technology. For example, his solution for drunk driving is cars that won't start if alcohol is detected. That sounds good........to a control freak. In reality, when you create more technology you have to create more solutions to solve the problems it creates. To see what I mean, visit the technological utopias in the movie "Brazil" (1985).

In real life, designer oversight isn't so funny. Fifty years ago, Fresco's Ravell model airplane kits included a powerful toxic airplane glue in the box. That glue was eventually banned because the breathing the vapor killed brain cells. If the engineer is infallible, was lowering intelligence of boys during the 1950's-60's part of his plan? The folly of Plato's Republic is that the self appointed 'Guardians' is they set themselves up as God, while they outlaw free will for the rest of society.

Fresco says there will be no government in his techno-utopia - but who's going to make these decisions without a visible, accountable government?

Plato's Republic is the 2500-year-old blueprint of the New World Order. Plato wrote it as a fictional dialogue proposing humanity be ruled by a special class of people he called "the Guardians". The premise Plato's utopia is that the majority of people aren't entitled to their opinion, and for the good of society need to be told what to do from cradle to grave.

Plato even proposed that people be bred for traits, like dogs and horses. Also in Plato's Republic, private property, marriage and nuclear family aren't allowed. The Illuminati pretty much adopted these views.

In his essay, "Beyond Utopia," Fresco admired Plato's Republic, Karl Marx, and H. G. Wells novel about a Freemasonry of science, The Shape of Things to Come, in which Freemasons take over the world. Fresco lurked in the shadows during the run of the first Zeitgeist movie in 2007. Director Peter Joseph served as front man for Fresco's The Venus Project.

THE PHONY GLOBAL REVOLUTION [1]

The media sings the praises of "pro-democratic protests for change in government" as a "spontaneous social phenomenon." We're supposed to believe that for the first time in history, all we have to do is march in the streets and entrenched military dictatorships buckle to their knees - armies, secret police and all.

How is this possible all of a sudden? The media present the usual array of experts who tell us it's the power of "social networking" technology. It's Facebook and Twitter.. Never mind that it's no secret that Facebook is a CIA tool.

What's this got to do with the third installment in the series, Zeitgeist Moving Forward? The structure and message of all three movies is the same Diocletian formula of "Problem-Reaction-Solution" That's a method of manufacturing consent dating back to Rome.


ZEITGEIST MOVING FORWARD

Here is a synopsis of the last 11 minutes. Keep in mind this big production was released Jan 20, 2011 before the "Jasmine" "revolutions" had spread. See how the "Solution" script of Zeitgeist Moving Forward matches the "Problem-Reaction-Solution" from the Club of Rome's 1991 book, The First Global Revolution, Chap. V: The Vacuum.

"PROBLEM"

ZEITGEIST: "This isn't a recession. Jobs are never coming back. States won't be able to pay unemployment checks because they'll be out of money"

VENUS PROJECT's JACQUES FRESCO:: "When things get so bad that people lose confidence in their elected leaders, they're going to demand change, if they don't kill each other first."

CLUB OF ROME: "Democracy will be made to seem responsible for the lagging economy, the scarcity and uncertainties. The very concept of democracy could then be brought into question and allow for the seizure of power by extremists of one brand or the other."

ZEITGEIST: It's clear that we're on the verge of a great transition in human life, What we face now is the change of this life we've known over the last century. "

CLUB OF ROME: "In searching for a new enemy we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill."

ZEITGEIST:newspaper headlines on famine, water shortage, unemployment, crime, and the Wall Street Journal UN DECLARES STATE OF GLOBAL EMERGENCY

A crowd of culturally diverse people gathered in the streets in front of a central bank of a North American city.

The people look up at a giant Times Square type TV screen to see shots of revolutions going on GLOBALLY and simultaneously.
The marquee on the screen shows the words WORLD PROTESTS SHUT DOWN GLOBAL ECONOMY!

The people get an idea...(yes we can!)

The big TV shows protests in LONDON, BEIJING, MOSCOW, SPAIN, SOUTH AFRICA, CANADA, SAUDI ARABIA

"REACTION"

ZEITGEIST The street crowd collectively seeing the giant TV screen news get an idea...(yes we can!) Helicopters hover overhead, and battalion of white American riot police appears squaring off menacingly in front of the central bank.

Next a bird's eye view of the city showing the mob packs the streets of the entire world.

Seeing this from their top floor window of the Fed Central Bank the evil white men in the board room look depressed and defeated. The chairman of the board ponders a minute and snuffs out his cigar.

He picks up the phone to put in a call to the lead cop to tell him to surrender -- to the people! The leader cop drops his helmet.

'SOLUTION'

Cue up happy music.

A former wage slave throws his briefcase. up in the air , it .lands in slow motion and burst open and money inside is laying in the street. Then the whole mob throws away their wallets and checkbooks into a huge pile in the street. Finally a little boy throws his piggy bank in the street.

The TV marquee says, TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING WITHDRAWN FROM BANKS AND THROWN IN THE STREETS. IN FRONT OF THE WORLD'S CENTRAL BANKS

Next a little boy is looking at a snapshot of that day titled THE END OF HISTORY

After evil Capitalists give up control of the world, the public has thrown their savings cash away, and instantly everything glows with celestial light and everything is free. And there are no old or homeless people.

(How come there were no Chinese or Asians, or blacks in this movie?)

JACQUES FRESCO: " If we try to visualize the future without families. there's fear, so when we make movies we put families in there. There will be no families. Those people won't want children. We do a survey of the carrying capacity of the earth, and that tells us how many people the earth can support."

Wonder why after so much multicultural diversity it ends with this specimen of Lebensborn Eugenics giving a *wink* to the "bio-ethics" insiders?


CLUB OF ROME: "This is the way we are setting the scene for mankind's encounter with the planet."


CONCLUSION

There are no new or original ideas in any of the movies. If you didn't see previous versions, don't waste your time. Just watch the last 11 minutes of Zeitgeist Moving Forward.

Zeitgeist isn't activist, and it's not a movement. The actual purpose of Peter Joseph's work is to manufacture consent for the cashless system the international bank cabal planned a century ago.

Lord Bertrand Russell wrote in his 1951 book "Impact of Science on Society" that the electronic cashless society will be a form of social control.

"Credits" will be given to you on a weekly basis, and they have to be consumed by the end of the week, and cannot be saved up. If you are against the system and do not follow orders, you don't eat. Nobody will be able to help anyone else because all will be dependent on the system.

Like Lord Russell, Fresco is a plutocrat whose retirement hobby is social engineering and raising an army of useful idiots.. During the Cold War hoax, Russell founded the "Pugwash movement" which used the fear of nuclear holocaust to trick hippies into holding rallies in Washington DC begging for world government. They must have been high, or didn't have the vocabulary to comprehend his wordy books.

Zeitgeist One told people to lose their faith in their religion,

Zeitgeist 1,2,& 3 told people that private property, savings, elected national democracy, and the right to your own opinion caused the economic crash, the 'war on terror', and 'global warming'.

Now The Venus Project (Jacques Fresco) is telling you to withdraw all your money, savings and all and throw it away.

If there were any doubt that Zeitgeist has been predictive programming to coincide with the 'flash mob' 'Global revolution, the last 11 minutes of Zeitgeist Moving On leave no doubt.

The Venus Project is one of a "thousand points of light" softening brains and lowering guards for their big hoax of 2012. Another one is of course the Mayan Calendar nonsense. Now that we see real riots made to order, they've tipped their hand. If only people don't fall for it.

Fresco's vision of a atheist Utopia alienated Buddhists, Hindus, and those into the galaxy of "new age" people. Aware of that, Peter Joseph is currently working next installment for 2012, dropping the 'Zeitgeist' branding, titled "Earth 2.0".

It will push exactly the same cashless, collective society, but Zeitgeist's open atheism will be candy coated with a section on human consciousness as God. Quantum metaphysics Cabala camouflage will replace Jacques Fresco's overt assault on faith and metaphysics.


Related Links----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First, here's a little background on the Zeitgeist movies.

[2] CIA Gets in Your Face(book) WIRED Magazine Jan. 2007
Since December 2006, the Central Intelligence Agency has been using Facebook.com, the popular social networking site, to recruit potential employees into its National Clandestine Service. It marks the first time the CIA has ventured into social networking to hire new personnel.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2007/01/72545

Why the Future Doesn't Need Us. WIRED Magazine April 2000
Our most powerful 21st-century technologies - robotics, genetic engineering, and nanotech - are threatening to make humans an endangered species.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html

Ravell Plastics http://www.revell.com/


http://http://henrymakow.com/

[buckminster fuller]

Circe,

discarding ideas because you can link people to them might not be such a constructivist approach. I'm glad I see no personal attacks and a good load of investigation together with a lot of speculation. still, you're expressing your view of things through the prism of your christian cultural / spiritual background, so it seems to me. knowing what catholicism is about, that it has served (and this is no speculation but historical analysis) primary as a mean to centralize power and keep people dumb with fear and guilt as the tools of the trade. communism in itself doesn't do that, it is how it has been expressed historically because corruption made its way into it, thanks to the control freaks. I don't buy that fresco is a puppet for the dark elite.
technology only can help us build a world were everyone (any nation..) gets his basic needs answered. of course, if you want to militate for the conservation of american standards of living and protectionism you are on the right track.

[Lord Sidious]

Circe,

discarding ideas because you can link people to them might not be such a constructivist approach. I'm glad I see no personal attacks and a good load of investigation together with a lot of speculation. still, you're expressing your view of things through the prism of your christian cultural / spiritual background, so it seems to me. knowing what catholicism is about, that it has served (and this is no speculation but historical analysis) primary as a mean to centralize power and keep people dumb with fear and guilt as the tools of the trade. communism in itself doesn't do that, it is how it has been expressed historically because corruption made its way into it, thanks to the control freaks. I don't buy that fresco is a puppet for the dark elite.
technology only can help us build a world were everyone (any nation..) gets his basic needs answered. of course, if you want to militate for the conservation of american standards of living and protectionism you are on the right track.

It seems to me that some of you guys like this concept because you think this is communism as it is meant to be.
Yet there is so much missing from their equation that it screams out to me ''suspicious'' and demands questioning.
I also am miffed that you right off his opinion in such an offhanded manner.

[Circe]

Circe,

discarding ideas because you can link people to them might not be such a constructivist approach. I'm glad I see no personal attacks and a good load of investigation together with a lot of speculation. still, you're expressing your view of things through the prism of your christian cultural / spiritual background, so it seems to me. knowing what catholicism is about, that it has served (and this is no speculation but historical analysis) primary as a mean to centralize power and keep people dumb with fear and guilt as the tools of the trade. communism in itself doesn't do that, it is how it has been expressed historically because corruption made its way into it, thanks to the control freaks. I don't buy that fresco is a puppet for the dark elite.
technology only can help us build a world were everyone (any nation..) gets his basic needs answered. of course, if you want to militate for the conservation of american standards of living and protectionism you are on the right track.


wrong! these are not my views, look at the source(s) clearly linked.
It is a piece written by Richard Evans for the Henry Makow website.
Source Link again http://henrymakow.com/
I found the article on the Henry Makow website today and I thought of this thread.So I posted the article in the hope it would contribute or maybe help someone who is interested in this subject.Nothing more,nothing less.

[OnyxKnight]

New Age Communism: The "Zeitgeist" Agenda

I don't have time to refute your entire post ( I will another time, I ensure you ). But for now I would like to point something out:


"Never give people the right to their own opinion!" - JACQUES FRESCO



Replace the word 'people', with 'scientists', and you will have what Jacque actually said.

He said scientists should not deal with personal opinions, but facts. They are paid for that here, they should be volunteering for that in this Venus type of system.

But like every single other "wanna-be-debunker" - you resort to twisting the words to shape it to your own perspective.

How nice :)

Chereo till next time

[buckminster fuller]

It seems to me that some of you guys like this concept because you think this is communism as it is meant to be.
Yet there is so much missing from their equation that it screams out to me ''suspicious'' and demands questioning.

Well not exactly.. I'm actually speaking from a designer point of view. Not a political one. I'm not implying that the venus project is offering a working system. I find it being on the right track as a resources based economy is to me a lot more able to promote true development. The implications of profit driven economies are huge in terms of the creation of our material world. There are so many drawbacks that it really is a cancer for the development of humanity. So many good ideas that would benefit people are just abandoned because those are not "financially viable", programmed obsolescence is a cynical joke in the face of third world countries as we keep on extracting the needed raw materials for this capitalist orgy. Those are facts my friend, I'm thankfull to Circe for his commitment to research the subject, but I really think it is biased either by his own assumptions (check out the title of his post...) or the ones expressed by the people he quoted. He draws ties that are really questionable to say the least. It is in no way an attempt to remain objective as he already convinced himself of the links between the nwo and jacques fresco... I worked for the venus project for a while, and, from what I have seen and exchanged, the arguments in Circes' post don't hold.



I also am miffed that you right off his opinion in such an offhanded manner.

Didn't mean to right off anyones' opinion, I guess dissent is welcome on those pages. Sorry if I've hurt anyone. Just didn't like the approach, the post is, to me, willingly trying to debunk the venus project. Which, again, from my point of view, is nearing paranoia.
Still, glad I could miff the dark lord, thought he was standing one step above that..

[Lord Sidious]

It seems to me that some of you guys like this concept because you think this is communism as it is meant to be.
Yet there is so much missing from their equation that it screams out to me ''suspicious'' and demands questioning.

Well not exactly.. I'm actually speaking from a designer point of view. Not a political one. I'm not implying that the venus project is offering a working system. I find it being on the right track as a resources based economy is to me a lot more able to promote true development. The implications of profit driven economies are huge in terms of the creation of our material world. There are so many drawbacks that it really is a cancer for the development of humanity. So many good ideas that would benefit people are just abandoned because those are not "financially viable", programmed obsolescence is a cynical joke in the face of third world countries as we keep on extracting the needed raw materials for this capitalist orgy. Those are facts my friend, I'm thankfull to Circe for his commitment to research the subject, but I really think it is biased either by his own assumptions (check out the title of his post...) or the ones expressed by the people he quoted. He draws ties that are really questionable to say the least. It is in no way an attempt to remain objective as he already convinced himself of the links between the nwo and jacques fresco... I worked for the venus project for a while, and, from what I have seen and exchanged, the arguments in Circes' post don't hold.

I would agree about the profit driven system being a cancer, whether or not the resources based economy is the answer, I don't know.
To clarify, did you work for them, or is that meant to be a quote from elsewhere?
I am not convinced, not even close, that the so called venus project isn't some project of the same people that have caused what we have now.


I also am miffed that you right off his opinion in such an offhanded manner.


Didn't mean to right off anyones' opinion, I guess dissent is welcome on those pages. Sorry if I've hurt anyone. Just didn't like the approach, the post is, to me, willingly trying to debunk the venus project. Which, again, from my point of view, is nearing paranoia.
Still, glad I could miff the dark lord, thought he was standing one step above that..

The thing is, even if you don't like someones opinion, if you wish to dispute what they say, do so, but don't make more work for Bill and his team.
We have had enough trouble to clean up in the near past, we don't need more.
The fact that you see him as nearing paranoia, or any of us for wanting to debunk the venus project tells me a LOT more about you than them.
You are a true believer and don't like it being knocked, nothing wrong with that, but when you start that crap, you are well out of order.
And yes, you irritated me, because we don't need more burrs under our saddles.
We are here looking for spiritual answers to our issues, not more political systems.
But if that is your interest, go for it.

[bluestflame]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

[Lord Sidious]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

[buckminster fuller]

Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

[Lord Sidious]

Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

The thing is, I never said he was wrong.
What my concern is, is that there are many people out there working to muddy the waters and operate as false prophets.
The whole zeitgeist thing smacks of that to me.
Not all the people involved, but enough that they can steer it where they want.
And not telling people that you had involvement before harms your credibility, in my opinion.

[buckminster fuller]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

There is no possible advantage to be taken without a money system.
I'm not calling people names.

[buckminster fuller]

Did work on the last movie. Did you actually get familiar with what fresco is defending ?
There is not much chances that he's wilingly into conspiracy. His ideas might have been used sideways by third parties, but I reckon he's genuinely committed to his work.
When linking the venus project to "2012 stuff", I see paranoia, sorry, it's the word that comes to my mind, no intent to hurt feelings here. Connecting dots is not all there is to research, one has to actually comprehend the subject at hand. Play the devils advocate (antithesis) if needed.. I haven't seen that done. All we're left with is speculation. I see no ground for certainty at all.

And no, I'm not looking for political answers as for say, I'm looking for pragmatic ones. I'm a designer, like fresco, and I'm really pissed off as to how we've been managing our material world. Spirituality will not guaranty you food and shelter. My personal "enlightenment" seems very little to me compared to the future we're about to pass on next generations. I was enlightened at birth, like all of you. It is both what we do and how we do it. I'm not waiting for "earth 5th dimension"..

Sorry for the lil irritation.

The thing is, I never said he was wrong.
What my concern is, is that there are many people out there working to muddy the waters and operate as false prophets.
The whole zeitgeist thing smacks of that to me.
Not all the people involved, but enough that they can steer it where they want.
And not telling people that you had involvement before harms your credibility, in my opinion.

I agree I didn't like the zeitgeist movement to become a part of the venus project. You will agree that there are not many documentaries out there that challenge the monetary system as a whole. And joining forces could be a good move (and more reasons to get fakely debunked) Wether there are hidden agendas or not, the underlying ideas and concept remain interesting. One shouldn't throw the bath water with the baby still in the bathtub.. (it's a french expression crudely translated, but I think you'll get the point.)
As for my credibility, make what you want of it, I know where I stand.

[OnyxKnight]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

No man controls the resources. Where is the power and / or advantage Blue?

[Etherios]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

I hope both of you spend 1-2 hours (dont need more) to read what The Venous Project says. Did you? I dont think so else Blue wouldnt ask that Question ...

Its the right thing to do tbh. First read what they talk about, spend some hours evaluating or just reading the materials they have out there and then read the debunkers or the researchers of the topic. It isnt history or scientific data so we cant really be sure what to trust or who.

TVP ideas as all listed in their site. Now from all the things that they have there nothing makes me feel like going communist or NWO or ... As someone said here before me - to link ideas to people is plain wrong.


Lord Sidious i never read anywhere anyone calling you paranoid or anyone else tbh. We are talking about a subject here and we disagree on the way some explain the material at hand. So PLZ give us examples of what seems suspicious to you and not just say it reminds me of communism so its bad. This is paranoid its a way to separate our selves from labels ...

I am still waiting to find someone to say something bad about the Idea that is The Venus Project. Everyone keeps "exposing" the people in it or keeps "exposing" the similarities to other old bad ideas. Still waiting ... i have found some bad points that i think shouldnt be in this idea but thats just me ...

P.S. PLZ go read the site The Venus Project (http://thevenusproject.com) then come back again with "errors"...

With love Themistoklis.

[vibrations]

Guys, I see a venus project as something good. not some definite solution, some perfect option against present system, but something which points to a meaningless economic behavior which produces hunger, criminal and all other social problems.

The no-monetary system is by my point of view very good thing. If we want to be equals between equals, then the economy as we know it today has to disappear.

Just think, there is not one single economic rule which is honest, ethical or morally positive. Everything is based on domination above others with fraud, just to gain more money.

What Venus project do is maybe some good piece of a future puzzle which will build a better society. Off course banks and military and political forces will fight against that with teeth and nails, so all we have to do is focus in something better and not criticized new approaches. MHO off corsé.

[panopticon]

G'day All,

I've watched all the movies, read the websites.
I don't disagree with the sentiment of the Venus Project or Fresco's work itself.
I don't think Fresco is trying to pull a shifty (nor am I implying anybody else is).
I disagree in the reliance on technology as a basis of a design system.
I don't think a monetary system (other than local/complimentary currencies in certain transitional circumstances) is of long term use in an equitable design system.
I am unaware of a transitional plan for the Venus Project other than a trial site with a theme park attachment (this is not meant as a detrimental remark, just the project as I understand it).
This is my primary reason for questioning the ability of the Venus Project to deliver what it promises.
If I am mistaken please someone point me in the direction of information to the contrary.
There are many examples of long term, multi-generational communities that have only recently (last decade or so) started to have difficulty.
Earlier on in this thread Kibbutzim are mentioned and they are definitely in this "multi-generational communities" category. For example, as I understand it, their reliance on free foreign workers have increased the wealth of the hierarchical membership while removing education/employment opportunities of children/grand children. This has contributed, to some extent, in a demographic drift from Kibbutz to Urban centres.

In reviewing how to create a new societal model it is important to be aware of historical movements/groups.
In this way mistakes from the past can be avoided.

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[Lord Sidious]

to introduce a resource based economy , doesn't that give the ones that control the resources now an advantage?

infrastructure as well as minerals , water, fertile food producing soils

See? Now you did it, you found a flaw.
Watch out, you're next on the list to be called paranoid.

I hope both of you spend 1-2 hours (dont need more) to read what The Venous Project says. Did you? I dont think so else Blue wouldnt ask that Question ...

Its the right thing to do tbh. First read what they talk about, spend some hours evaluating or just reading the materials they have out there and then read the debunkers or the researchers of the topic. It isnt history or scientific data so we cant really be sure what to trust or who.

TVP ideas as all listed in their site. Now from all the things that they have there nothing makes me feel like going communist or NWO or ... As someone said here before me - to link ideas to people is plain wrong.


Lord Sidious i never read anywhere anyone calling you paranoid or anyone else tbh. We are talking about a subject here and we disagree on the way some explain the material at hand. So PLZ give us examples of what seems suspicious to you and not just say it reminds me of communism so its bad. This is paranoid its a way to separate our selves from labels ...

I am still waiting to find someone to say something bad about the Idea that is The Venus Project. Everyone keeps "exposing" the people in it or keeps "exposing" the similarities to other old bad ideas. Still waiting ... i have found some bad points that i think shouldnt be in this idea but thats just me ...

P.S. PLZ go read the site The Venus Project (http://thevenusproject.com) then come back again with "errors"...

With love Themistoklis.



Didn't mean to right off anyones' opinion, I guess dissent is welcome on those pages. Sorry if I've hurt anyone. Just didn't like the approach, the post is, to me, willingly trying to debunk the venus project. Which, again, from my point of view, is nearing paranoia.
Still, glad I could miff the dark lord, thought he was standing one step above that..

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

[buckminster fuller]

just to make things right.. I imputed the word paranoïa over Circe's first long post... Had nothing to do with you, sorry if you unwillingly mistook it as being addressed to you dear.

[Lord Sidious]

just to make things right.. I imputed the word paranoïa over Circe's first long post... Had nothing to do with you, sorry if you unwillingly mistook it as being addressed to you dear.

I never said it was aimed at me, dear.

[Etherios]

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

So you came here not to talk about The Venus project but to tell us that you wont participate? Cause all i said was read before you judge. Then maybe for you knowing what you judge is rubbishing right?

Lord i really hope you take a step back and read this thread again. Then start to attack the people in here. I never rubbished you or anyone else ... i just state the obvious. Know before you judge, i really dont care if you want to believe or not as it wont ever be a reality. TVP is an idea - guideline but you think its a religion or you think anyone is forcing you to do anything?

WoW your reply really made me feel weird and made me go on the defense. WHY? Relax no one is forcing you ... relax.

p.s. I dont see a moderator or Bill Ryan on your Member info so dont tell me what i can come here to do or not thank you.

With love (not pressure really) Themistoklis.

[Lord Sidious]

Read that then.
If you guys want to be true believers, that is your right.
But don't come here and rubbish us for not wanting to participate.

So you came here not to talk about The Venus project but to tell us that you wont participate? Cause all i said was read before you judge. Then maybe for you knowing what you judge is rubbishing right?

Lord i really hope you take a step back and read this thread again. Then start to attack the people in here. I never rubbished you or anyone else ... i just state the obvious. Know before you judge, i really dont care if you want to believe or not as it wont ever be a reality. TVP is an idea - guideline but you think its a religion or you think anyone is forcing you to do anything?

WoW your reply really made me feel weird and made me go on the defense. WHY? Relax no one is forcing you ... relax.

p.s. I dont see a moderator or Bill Ryan on your Member info so dont tell me what i can come here to do or not thank you.

With love (not pressure really) Themistoklis.

Why do you assume that I did not read about it?
Maybe that is why I don’t want anything to do with it?
I haven’t attacked anyone.
I never said that you rubbished anyone, but others have.

[mcaballero]

Research all the references of the Zeitgeist movies and you will find interesting surprises.

[panopticon]

Research all the references of the Zeitgeist movies and you will find interesting surprises.

G'day Mcaballero,

Please point me in the direction of what it is you are trying to point out.
I am happy to view any information.
I do not want to wade through yet another vague reference to a document only to not be able to respond as a thread has moved on or become stagnant.
I have downloaded the (220 page) reference guide (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/Zeitgeist,%20The%20Movie-%20Companion%20Guide%20PDF.pdf) to Peter Joseph's work (Zeitgeist) from his groups film website (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/).
As I have stated I do not think any body is trying to rip anybody off in connection to Fresco's work.
I personally do not think that relying on technology for the redesign of an earth bound society is a viable option. Others do. I agree that in an off-world case scenario then it is of use.
Again I ask if there is a transitional plan for The Venus Project (http://www.thevenusproject.com/) other than the introduction of a trial site with theme park (http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project-introduction/faq) (link goes to FAQ and the section I am referring to is FAQ #12)?

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

[trenairio]

It seems that the Venus Project does not incorporate vital free energy devices.

[OnyxKnight]

Why do you assume that I did not read about it?
Maybe that is why I don’t want anything to do with it?
I haven’t attacked anyone.
I never said that you rubbished anyone, but others have.

Usually, when people read or watched the TVP and ZM material (or any material for that matter) won't be asking stupid questions.

I said usually...

[Etherios]

It seems that the Venus Project does not incorporate vital free energy devices.

Well they try not to be named radical or crazy or alternative media etc etc...

He has said many times that his proposals are based on working atm technologies not what we might discover in the future. If there are 10 people that say TVP is bad ... imagine how many they will become when he dares to talk about "free energy" ... i am not talking about this forum ofc its a global thing. Free energy is for crazy people in the mass media.

[Etherios]

Research all the references of the Zeitgeist movies and you will find interesting surprises.

G'day Mcaballero,

Please point me in the direction of what it is you are trying to point out.
I am happy to view any information.
I do not want to wade through yet another vague reference to a document only to not be able to respond as a thread has moved on or become stagnant.
I have downloaded the (220 page) reference guide (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/Zeitgeist,%20The%20Movie-%20Companion%20Guide%20PDF.pdf) to Peter Joseph's work (Zeitgeist) from his groups film website (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/).
As I have stated I do not think any body is trying to rip anybody off in connection to Fresco's work.
I personally do not think that relying on technology for the redesign of an earth bound society is a viable option. Others do. I agree that in an off-world case scenario then it is of use.
Again I ask if there is a transitional plan for The Venus Project (http://www.thevenusproject.com/) other than the introduction of a trial site with theme park (http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project-introduction/faq) (link goes to FAQ and the section I am referring to is FAQ #12)?

Kind Regards, :yo:
Panopticon

Exactly why i think TVP is ONLY an idea that will never happen. It need a fresh start ... or a reboot that can only happen if we either isolate many thousand of kids to those cities or a global population wipe out. WHY? They made the asumption that if a human is raised on a good environment then he will become good. SOOO we need good environments to raise up kids ... and because when we mature there is noway to remove our way of thinking then its pointless to even try this. The hole system is based on trust and the Utopian (for now days) conception of doing something for the general good and not for self interest.

Thus TVP will never be realized ... at least without a terrible event.

With love Themistoklis.

[araucaria]

I will strongly advise to carefully think before you post something like "it's ok to be idealist"

Lenin was an idealist


.

Wow ! (not disagreeing)
Lenin was a materia-list, an enemy of idea-lism.
Some say he was a Rothschild agent, i.e. a material-ist, an enemy of ideal-ism.

Lenin was a dialectical materialist. Dialectics is a process whereby you take two contraries, Thesis and Antithesis, and resolve them into a Synthesis. For example, taking materialism and idealism, this suggests a third non-conflicting term: materialist idealism or maybe idealist materialism. Same difference. Here’s how it works.

Take three materialists in a room together. One is touching what seems to be a leg, another what seems to be a tail, the third what seems to be a bit of both (a trunk). They argue because they are not talking about the same experience and get bogged down in the details. Take three idealists. They are not too interested in the details but quarrel over whether there are several alien species or one hybrid monster in the room.

Then one materialist has an idea – or maybe it’s an idealist checking the raw data. He says we have three identical DNA samples: it’s just an elephant!

The moral of the tale (or the tail of the moral) is that idealism and materialism on their own are both divisive. When you synthesize the two, you have no enemies.

PS. How did the elephant get into the room? Easy: like a pear in a brandy bottle, it grew there!
How do you get it out? Answer, you don’t, you just walk out of the room; like the pear you leave in the brandy bottle when you serve the (pear-flavoured) brandy. The pear is recycled as… glass. Alimentary my dear Watson!

[Bender]

Exactly why i think TVP is ONLY an idea that will never happen. It need a fresh start ... or a reboot that can only happen if we either isolate many thousand of kids to those cities or a global population wipe out. WHY? They made the asumption that if a human is raised on a good environment then he will become good. SOOO we need good environments to raise up kids ... and because when we mature there is noway to remove our way of thinking then its pointless to even try this. The hole system is based on trust and the Utopian (for now days) conception of doing something for the general good and not for self interest.

Thus TVP will never be realized ... at least without a terrible event.

With love Themistoklis.

Oh really? That's not very optimistic of you. If there is no way we can change, then we are all screwed.
How did you make it to this forum? I mean, it is not part of the state of mind the media is selling. If you could figure out that TVP might be a good way of doing things, not just a utopian dream, then everyone else can too.
I think you are underestimating people.

The idea that people are criminals because of their environment does not describe how the change will come, but how it could work in the end.
The most common argument against TVP is that we need a state and laws because of for example criminals. That it's because of that it is there in the first place, to help us. The answer to that is that they are just a product of their environment. So if we changed that, there will be no criminals and no need for laws.
This idea does not describe a physical law of environment=behavior that can never change. If it it was like that, then you would be right.

[TimelessDimensions]

There are many cultural tribes of people who do not have any history of murder

e.g. The Amish, Hopi Indians, Kogi Indians, etc..

So environment (zeitgeist) plays a large role in preventing fear and desperate behaviours

[arctourist]

i think they're right about plenty,by gosh
but what's the association with venus about,right? anyways,it might be worth looking into a little deeper before we dismiss it as not practical or too idealistic...

[Etherios]

Exactly why i think TVP is ONLY an idea that will never happen. It need a fresh start ... or a reboot that can only happen if we either isolate many thousand of kids to those cities or a global population wipe out. WHY? They made the asumption that if a human is raised on a good environment then he will become good. SOOO we need good environments to raise up kids ... and because when we mature there is noway to remove our way of thinking then its pointless to even try this. The hole system is based on trust and the Utopian (for now days) conception of doing something for the general good and not for self interest.

Thus TVP will never be realized ... at least without a terrible event.

With love Themistoklis.

Oh really? That's not very optimistic of you. If there is no way we can change, then we are all screwed.
How did you make it to this forum? I mean, it is not part of the state of mind the media is selling. If you could figure out that TVP might be a good way of doing things, not just a utopian dream, then everyone else can too.
I think you are underestimating people.

The idea that people are criminals because of their environment does not describe how the change will come, but how it could work in the end.
The most common argument against TVP is that we need a state and laws because of for example criminals. That it's because of that it is there in the first place, to help us. The answer to that is that they are just a product of their environment. So if we changed that, there will be no criminals and no need for laws.
This idea does not describe a physical law of environment=behavior that can never change. If it it was like that, then you would be right.

SO you really think that now as we are we can change and stop thinking about cost and start thinking about life? I am not talking about Bill Ryan ... i am talking about your friends and my friends that think Zeitgeist is a fairy tail and propaganda. You really think their is a way to make them see and totally change their way of thinking? I am not that sure ... sorry.

As you say TVP is IDEAS of how life should had been or how we can do it in the future ... the way to start tho i dont know and i dont think it will be easy. So yes i dont believe enough mature (15+ years ) humans can escape this way of thinking. So TVP cannot become reality.

Now if we get an enlightenment boost or the transition to 5th density and that forcefully wake up people then maybe then ...

[Bender]

SO you really think that now as we are we can change and stop thinking about cost and start thinking about life? I am not talking about Bill Ryan ... i am talking about your friends and my friends that think Zeitgeist is a fairy tail and propaganda. You really think their is a way to make them see and totally change their way of thinking? I am not that sure ... sorry.

As you say TVP is IDEAS of how life should had been or how we can do it in the future ... the way to start tho i dont know and i dont think it will be easy. So yes i dont believe enough mature (15+ years ) humans can escape this way of thinking. So TVP cannot become reality.

Now if we get an enlightenment boost or the transition to 5th density and that forcefully wake up people then maybe then ...

SO you've already given up? You only think that only this 2012 ascension will save us all?

Well I know of some guys who would want you to think that. And those guys aren't in favor of humanity. Not humanity as in 7 billion people that want to be happy anyway.

I hope that you see what you are doing. You're taking your responsibility away and blaming those with lesser intellect.
It is like seeing a room full of children that are drawing on the walls. You just sigh and shake you're head. But you wouldn't laugh if the pens were actually guns.

But I admit that there is truth in what you're saying. Most people are very narrow-minded. Most people would laugh at the idea of TVP. But that's only because they don't know anything else. They believe what they see and what they are told, fairly enough. And that is strictly controlled.
But if they would be shown that there is another way, I believe that most wouldn't discard it.

The people in North Korea believe that their country is the best in the world. Take them on a trip to South Korea and they would most certainly rethink.

There are no bad people, only bad ideas?

[charcia1]

For me Zeitgeist is good, but for me the big challenge will be to OPEN OUR MINDS because if we think we cant change, then this is not an open mind to new possibility. Ive talked about this to my friends and they like to believe whatever they mind gives to them people they just dont want to open their minds, and most people on earth are like that, a close mind is a weakness to the people.

[charcia1]

Oh yeah and if people say that other people wont open they mind for this project, than its not a reason to NOT try, its a perfect reason to try.

[TimelessDimensions]

I just made my own short documentary with thoughts about how we can start implementing TZM today!

See my profile for the video, it's called "Zeitgeist: Let's Start Today"

:panda:

[cjhepburn]

I have followed the Venus project for a couple of years now and I'm guessing it's a direction we can expect in the future but like you said it's the transition that is the drawback. It's pretty obvious that we're not going to walk into a vacation resort with beautiful accommodations, jobs and all the food we can eat, and folks are hesitant to give up those creature comforts.

The Arcosanti Project is similar and it hasn't been terribly successful, from what I can see. I watched a few YouTube videos and I wouldn't live there. It's just a big cement commune and everyone looks like they need a shower. No scientists, doctors, builder etc. They are just existing and not really building for a better future.

These projects could go hand in hand with Alex Colliers "Holographic Social Structure." I'd like to be around to see that happen and participate.

Cherie

[loveandgratitude]

From Hitler to Venus: The Venus Project, the UN, and the NWO
The Venus Project: Keeping Revolutionaries Plugged into The Machine Since 1995.
Welcome to the Technocracy.

http://planet-mantis.blogspot.com/

September 11th, The Oklahoma City bombing, the Reichstag fires, etc....

The global ruling elite use the same tactics over and over again, throughout history. One of the tactics they use is false flag operations. Another tactic they use is spreading propaganda through films (and other media).

Hitler rose to power partly by using brilliant films. The films were so well-made and so persuasive that they are still studied by college students as examples of how to make a persuasive film. They all talked about creating a wonderful new world, a free and equal society with abundance for all and no more corruption. Remember that Hitler was a socialist. The woman who directed his films was named Leni Riefenstahl. She was also an actress and a dancer. Even though she worked for Hitler, she is still admired for her amazing talent as a persuasive film-maker.

Many of Peter Joseph Merola's sources used in the first Zeitgeist film are from The Theosophical Society. His sources include women like Madame Blavatsky, the infamous inspiration to Hitler. (Apparently, he gets his inspiration from the same person Hitler did.) They also include Alice Bailey, who founded Lucifer Publishing in 1922, originally for the purpose of publishing books written by her and Blavatsky. The name was later changed to Lucis Trust. Lucis Trust and The Theosophical Society are interconnected and have always worked closely with the UN. Lucis Trust is a member of the United Nations Economic and Social Council.

Please keep in mind that the ruling elite, ultimately, don't want money. As The Venus Project itself aptly points out, money is not a resource. What they ultimately want is total control over all the Earth's resources in the form of a "global resource management system" in which a small group of technocrats will have control over all the planet's resources. In the latest film, "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward," Peter Merola tells us exactly what they want, which is "total Earth resource management and processes" in a "global economic management machine." In this machine, private property will be done away with and everything, even the natural resources in your own backyard, will belong to the system. Again, this is completely in line with Agenda 21. Merola muses about this while showing celestial pictures of the globe spinning round and round, sometimes with an interconnected web laid over it. The message of globalization is loud and clear.



To read more from this insightful articles and videos from PLANET MANTIS...............Go to this link

http://planet-mantis.blogspot.com/

[Etherios]

From Hitler to Venus: The Venus Project, the UN, and the NWO
The Venus Project: Keeping Revolutionaries Plugged into The Machine Since 1995.
Welcome to the Technocracy.

http://planet-mantis.blogspot.com/

September 11th, The Oklahoma City bombing, the Reichstag fires, etc....

The global ruling elite use the same tactics over and over again, throughout history. One of the tactics they use is false flag operations. Another tactic they use is spreading propaganda through films (and other media).

Hitler rose to power partly by using brilliant films. The films were so well-made and so persuasive that they are still studied by college students as examples of how to make a persuasive film. They all talked about creating a wonderful new world, a free and equal society with abundance for all and no more corruption. Remember that Hitler was a socialist. The woman who directed his films was named Leni Riefenstahl. She was also an actress and a dancer. Even though she worked for Hitler, she is still admired for her amazing talent as a persuasive film-maker.

Many of Peter Joseph Merola's sources used in the first Zeitgeist film are from The Theosophical Society. His sources include women like Madame Blavatsky, the infamous inspiration to Hitler. (Apparently, he gets his inspiration from the same person Hitler did.) They also include Alice Bailey, who founded Lucifer Publishing in 1922, originally for the purpose of publishing books written by her and Blavatsky. The name was later changed to Lucis Trust. Lucis Trust and The Theosophical Society are interconnected and have always worked closely with the UN. Lucis Trust is a member of the United Nations Economic and Social Council.

Please keep in mind that the ruling elite, ultimately, don't want money. As The Venus Project itself aptly points out, money is not a resource. What they ultimately want is total control over all the Earth's resources in the form of a "global resource management system" in which a small group of technocrats will have control over all the planet's resources. In the latest film, "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward," Peter Merola tells us exactly what they want, which is "total Earth resource management and processes" in a "global economic management machine." In this machine, private property will be done away with and everything, even the natural resources in your own backyard, will belong to the system. Again, this is completely in line with Agenda 21. Merola muses about this while showing celestial pictures of the globe spinning round and round, sometimes with an interconnected web laid over it. The message of globalization is loud and clear.



To read more from this insightful articles and videos from PLANET MANTIS...............Go to this link

http://planet-mantis.blogspot.com/

Hmm ... So Love, you agree to a text that doesnt talk about what The Venus project is or says but it talks about where and how Peter Joseph got the ideas to create TVP.

Hmm ... Hitler got inspired by Homer and Plato, should we talk about that also or thats different?

The problem isnt what the Elites want is how they want to achieve that. We all want and need ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT but for the good of humanity and the planet not for the good of the Elites. SO NWO/Global Gov is bad because the elites wants it? NO i disagree with you 100%.

Talk to me about the project and its spirit and not about what it is similar with... then we can talk more.

In the latest film, "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward," Peter Merola tells us exactly what they want, which is "total Earth resource management and processes" in a "global economic management machine."


YES i agree with him cause if you read the rest of what he says its totally different from what the elites say. The problem now days isnt the GLOBAL econimics ... the problem is that we DONT HAVE economies what we have is a debt system. IF we had true free ecomonies we would had never gotten to this situation.

SO PLZ for the love of all start talkign about the project and their ideas and NOT what you think or others think Peter Joseph got his ideas from or if anyone that works or has anykind of contact with TVP is working or had worked for something that connects to the ELITES.

If this keeps happening we should just delete the hole thread their is no point if ppl dont start talking about the idea that is zeitgeist and The Venus Project.


I believe most if not all of you have heard about this movement, and about the proposed solutions to the corrupt system we live in today.

What I am interested in is, your thoughts, and your opinions (pro and contra) about the movement and the project and why.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with this, but almost 90% of the material in the Zeitgeist Movies has been "borrowed" from the research material of Jordan Maxwell by the creator of the movies, Peter Joseph. I don't think it matters much, as long as the information is out in the public domain for people to be able to reach it.

What do you think of the movement, and the project itself? Have you heard of similar projects (they can be discussed here too)? How do we get to a system like the Venus Project? How do we make the transition? Any thoughts that would fill the holes in the ideas behind the movement and the project (yes, I'm not gonna pretend they aren't any) are very much welcome.

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

http://www.futurebydesignthemovie.com/ (http://www.futurebydesignthemovie.com/)

http://www.thevenusproject.com


PS: I thought this is the most obvious place to post the thread. If it isn't, please move it to wherever you think it should be placed.

The OP doesnt ask about the love life of Peter Joseph right?

[Dennis Leahy]

...

The problem isnt what the Elites want is how they want to achieve that. We all want and need ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT but for the good of humanity and the planet not for the good of the Elites. SO NWO/Global Gov is bad because the elites wants it? NO i disagree with you 100%.

Talk to me about the project and its spirit and not about what it is similar with... then we can talk more.

In the latest film, "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward," Peter Merola tells us exactly what they want, which is "total Earth resource management and processes" in a "global economic management machine."


YES i agree with him cause if you read the rest of what he says its totally different from what the elites say. The problem now days isnt the GLOBAL econimics ... the problem is that we DONT HAVE economies what we have is a debt system. IF we had true free ecomonies we would had never gotten to this situation....

I think this is a huge point that many fail to see.

Socialism is not bad, it is the concept of sharing. Totalitarian ideology and elite rulers on top of socialism is bad.

A unified, democratically agreed upon, global set of rules for all of humanity, uniting all of humanity (or to put it another way, to remove the illusion of not being united) would be very good. Global rulers skimming off the top and/or imposing their will is bad.

I would love to see all of humanity brought together in the spirit of The Venus Project. We would need to be ever diligent in all phases, from planning to execution, to keep a ruling ideology from commandeering the project.

Dennis

[Gone002]

The zeitgeist movement in my mind is just swapping one control paradigm for another, while showing theory’s as evidence and as establish fact. While some of the information is copied from Russell Pine about religions, which is very much incorrect and very miss leading.

The movement its self seems to have a darker under current, not to mention that what they want to achieve is complete unattainable regardless of how much time, money and knowledge you have. That is not saying that I don’t think it is a valid and has some merit.

Bottom line to all of this is that no-one on earth has the right to say what you can and can’t do spiritually. Regardless if you feel what they are doing is dark or even silly, if it makes them a better person and if it doesn’t affect your daily live then its fine. The key is education and not the education we have today which is rubbish by all standards.
:horn:

[Etherios]

The zeitgeist movement in my mind is just swapping one control paradigm for another, while showing theory’s as evidence and as establish fact. While some of the information is copied from Russell Pine about religions, which is very much incorrect and very miss leading.

The movement its self seems to have a darker under current, not to mention that what they want to achieve is complete unattainable regardless of how much time, money and knowledge you have. That is not saying that I don’t think it is a valid and has some merit.

Bottom line to all of this is that no-one on earth has the right to say what you can and can’t do spiritually. Regardless if you feel what they are doing is dark or even silly, if it makes them a better person and if it doesn’t affect your daily live then its fine. The key is education and not the education we have today which is rubbish by all standards.
:horn:

Care to explain? cause the above text doesnt say anything specific. Maybe its my poor english but all i got is vague ideas ...

For example "The zeitgeist movement in my mind is just swapping one control paradigm for another" < what you mean here?

For example "The movement its self seems to have a darker under current, not to mention that what they want to achieve is complete unattainable regardless of how much time, money and knowledge you have. That is not saying that I don’t think it is a valid and has some merit."

For example "Bottom line to all of this is that no-one on earth has the right to say what you can and can’t do spiritually."

For example "The key is education and not the education we have today which is rubbish by all standards. "

If i remove the word Zeitgeist then noone will understand this reply is about the topic we talk about :p

[Spiralmind]

Found this yesterday:
http://www.freeworldcharter.org/

Possibly the expected reboot/repackaging of the Venus Project. I'm having a discussion with the people behind the charter on their facebook page.

"I have many questions. There are far too many details left out for me to agree to this. While I think the goal is good and ideal, the methods are in question. After reading the charter, I saw no mention of 'human rights'. Love, inspiration, spirituality, creativity, aspiration being subordinate with science in charge raises serious alarm bells. With regard to teaching our youth, who decides what is taught? Also of concern is the phrase/concept of 'the common good' which sounds too close to the scientific justification for population reduction and other new world order ideas.
18 hours ago · Like ·

Incidentally, has anyone read the inscriptions on the Georgia guidestones? Sound familiar?"
18 hours ago · Like