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View Full Version : "Debunking Jordan Maxwell : The Movie" - There is a war on our minds!



Baelsfire
24th June 2010, 04:03
Well here is an interesting piece of film i found... After performing a search i couldn't find any topics on it here nor on David Ickes' website, so of course i thought maybe its time there was.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3119679914965262207# 1 hour

Speaking from my own point of view, i like a lot of what Jordan Maxwell has to say, especially when considering how his presenting's have helped form such works as Zeitgeist and many well known speakers and researchers in the "alternative" field. However there are some things that didn't quite sit well with me - this is to be expected with any one; as the fictional Obi Wan once said "Many truths depend on our point of view".

I've seen a few people post how they are very much at odds with Maxwell and feel ill ease and suspect regarding his possible agenda and motivations. Yet this was never expanded upon. Of course there is always disinformalists (new word!) and those who will attempt character assassination and with people/ characters such as "Jordan Maxwell" its pretty clear why there would be so. So when i post this video i hope people will have the clarity of mind to consider these kind of things and take all issues in balance.

Being erroneous on some points does not invalidate all other work one has put forth and fallibility is part and parcel of being an incarnate being - according to myself. But never the less it is important to pay attention to the many facets of a diamond to see the super structure.

Many take issue with "Jordan" because he is a Mason, i can see from their point (though i do not see things as simplistically as some)... Especially if they have been exposed to information such as this (http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/secrets.html)

Excerpt from site :

I do promise and swear that I will not give the Grand Hailing Sign of Distress of a Master Mason, except for the benefit of the Craft while at work or for the instruction of a Brother, unless I am in real distress; and should I see the sign given, or hear the word spoken, I will hasten to the relief of the person so giving it.

Question: What about when a NON Mason gives a sign of distress?

Answer: No obligation required. Typical of an elitist and anti-social cult.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not give the substitute for the Master’s Word in any other way or manner than that in which I receive it, which will be on the Five points of Fellowship, and at low breath.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not wrong, cheat, nor defraud a Master Masons Lodge, or a worthy Brother of this degree to the value of anything, knowingly, nor suffer it to be done by another, if in my power to prevent.

Question: What about wronging, cheating, or defrauding a NON Mason?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not knowingly strike a Brother Master Mason, nor otherwise do him personal violence in anger, except in the necessary of myself, family or property.

Question: What about striking or doing personal violence in anger to a NON Mason?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Furthermore: I do promise and swear that I will not have illicit carnal intercourse with a Master Mason’s wife, widow, mother, sister or daughter, nor suffer it to be done by another if in my power to prevent.

Question: What about not having illicit carnal intercourse with a NON Mason's wife, widow, mother, sister, or daughter?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Question: What about not having illicit carnal intercourse with a Master Masons SON?

Answer: See previous response, supra.

Now of course this is propaganda. But of what sort? Is it Black, Grey or merely White Propaganda? I don't know... I'm not a Mason... Im not rich enough to be one. And as nearly all the known Masons i have been exposed to (and suffered from) seem to greatly value capitalistic doctrine and the illusion of status and the rather diseased and destructive philosophy like that of Ayn Rand i fully comprehend why people would have issues with the agenda of the society and the programming the members are subject to.

But surely this is a case of rotten apples in a barrel causing the others to rot? A whole other topic surely.

There is a Roman Maxim of Law: "Let he who would be deceived be deceived". This is and has been used against the "average Joe" for thousands of years now. Its very nasty do you not think? Surely a system that advocates such attitudes should be condemned and stripped of power?

So what do you think?

Is Jordan part of a deliberate deception? Is he simply misinformed on some points? Perhaps there is such truth in his words that there is a concentrated effort to discredit the fellow on any point possible, however small, in the hope that the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater? Maybe its a mingle of things... i refer back to my comment on the fallibility of being incarnate.

I look forward to your comments...

Grizzom
24th June 2010, 05:07
http://i45.tinypic.com/2w68288.jpg

"When in doubt baffle the audience with BS"

"He's just an entertainer making a living"

Baelsfire
24th June 2010, 15:21
That would of course make him a charlatan and untrustworthy, under that point of view.

Do you then find all or most of his information poppycock? Are Zeitgeist, Tsarion, Freeman, Wilcock, Deagle, Icke, etc all full of rubbish? These are just some of the implications.

I'm guessing from what you said that you are just here for entertainment purposes and think nothing on these forums or camelot holds any water in your reality?

777
24th June 2010, 15:45
This has the potential to be a fascinating thread Baelsfire, love your "new word" and the gospel according to you haha!

In my view, my personal mix of logic/gut feeling/knowledge leaves me still unsure of JM. The jury is still out for me. But let me adress this through another high ranking freemason: Manly P Hall. Here is a guy (reportedly) at the tip of the masonic iceberg. He has perpetually released information regarding the occult, secret societies, freemasonry and ancient esotericism seemingly with no response from the powers that be, otherwise why would he?! Maybe this is a deliberate act of disinformation. Maybe these societies are not that fussed about their practices becoming public knowledge. Or maybe behind every person no matter who or what they "belong" to is a human being fighting to do what's right. I believe the latter to be the case with MPH. If you listen to his interviews, watch his videos etc you can sense the love and intention in his words and sentiments.

This leads me to attribute the actions of JM or MPH to be those of love for their species and a personal sense of responsibility for the future of it. Also, at the pinnacle of freemasonry laws are written and created. These people are adept at deception through these laws and specialists at exploiting the loopholes therein for personal/group gains. Thus, the likes of MPH (presuming he IS a good guy!) will know this too and use them for his own ends.

The key loophole here is the word "knowingly". It's a beautifull irony that just this little word could be used so effectively against them by their own members!

I don't know if my views are anywhere near the mark Baelsfire but food for thought maybe?

Great thread mate.

Baelsfire
24th June 2010, 16:38
Hey 777, thanks for the input!

Certainly food for thought.. I myself have been looking in to Manly P Hall of late, in conjunction with some others. He himself is attributed with a quote on how knowledge and elitism corrupts if i recall correctly. Put many here are either "hardcore" Maxwell fans or indicate that they are against him on a intuitive level.

Thus i was surprised that this film, which has been out a while, was never posted and discussed before. So questions should be asked.. Im sure Jordan would be irritated that i posted that negative segment on Freemasonry in association, but ive never seen him engage in conversation of refute any claims so there you go.

I'm not against him but it does appears there is some quite murky waters here - which people are happy to bath in, regardless of whether that which just floated past was something to be better aware of....

I'm also surprised on how many views it has had but very few see fit to grace the thread with their posts when this character "Jordan Maxwell" is claimed responsible for a large part of this movement.


the gospel according to you haha!

I wasn't attempting to preach in this post, not so sure what you mean...though it reminded me of that old show "The Brass Eye" .. the New Gospel excerpt: "Jesus didn't know he was Jesus until he had been chained to the radiator for sometime" lmaowafflecakes!

Kulapops
24th June 2010, 17:51
Who knows if any of it is true ?? Unless some information, event or person has deliberately crossed your life to make you think otherwise.

This is not the case for me. So it's easy to look at all the spin and hype behind flu..fema..illuminati..WWIII... I mean, take your pick... there is soooo much damn stuff to 'worry' about that that in itself makes me skeptical.

I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.

Not surprising really, I mean.. we exist.. we wish to survive. No wonder we take an interest.

My take is that...in all likelihood, your life will be over or a significant chunk of it (even two years was way too much in my case) before any of these issues are ever proven or resolved.

Third world war ? Check out the 80's.

For all we know, an awful lot of us have perhaps less time left than we think. Not counting any kind of armageddon or take over or police state.

So my question out there is: Knowing this, how are you going to spend the time you have left?

I can see no further spiritual advancement for myself here at Avalon, because the overwhelming interest is in unprovable phenomenon and bedtime stories.

I keep an eye out, in case the populous ever want something different... I live in hope.

K

illuminate
24th June 2010, 18:17
I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.
!


I live in hope.
such a beautiful place to be

love in you

Scott
24th June 2010, 19:50
Seriously? Chris White's cult of bible thumping debunkers rides again!
Same old program, different names.

Baelsfire
24th June 2010, 21:31
Hey Aztar

Is Chris White one of the guys responsible for the "debunker" film? To be fair, both Jordan and Chris both thump the bible then? heh..

If you mean me, im not a Christian (an amalgamation of cults?) And i only posted this here on the basis that it hasn't been already (according to search results) and on the agenda of hearing peoples thoughts 'n opinions :) And to try be objective, albeit in a rambling sense lol!

Steven
24th June 2010, 22:12
Who made the debunking and why? Keep in mind Jordan Maxwell has a lot, a lot of enemies. Enemies acquired over more years than my 41 years age. Powerful enemies, the catholic church, the 13 families, the Jesuits to name a few. Add to this Jordan being probably one of the most popular and notorious in his field, this attract a lot of "paparazzi of faux-pas", observing each steps he makes to gather enough mistake from him to build a well debunking program about him.

On the other hand, if you make a quick search on Chris White, you will notice this guy is on a "crusade". He debunks just about anything, anyone that contradicts the christian belief system. I say debunk the debunker. Jordan has said things which was not accurate over the years, who doesn't? Their is truth and false things in his talks like in just any talks. What matters is that there is enough truth coming out from various people so we can compare and make links to discern what is probably the truth.

Chris was one of Avalon1 member and came a few time to debunk, or preach, ;)

Edit: Have you seen the little video Bill made with Jordan at the vatican? Wow! We must admit, it takes some guts to do that.

Namaste, Steven

Grizzom
25th June 2010, 01:10
http://i47.tinypic.com/x10sr9.jpg

Here's some good reading about Mr Pine (http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/jordanmaxwell/jordanmaxwell.shtm)




http://i50.tinypic.com/1zvuy46.jpg

@ Baelsfire

Don't get mad at me, you asked for truth and sometimes it hurts.
I was a fan of all of the people you listed, just like you.

Anymore I just listen to them for entertainment, and sort out the facts from the fluff. :confused:

unplugged
25th June 2010, 04:05
. . .But let me adress this through another high ranking freemason: Manly P Hall. Here is a guy (reportedly) at the tip of the masonic iceberg. He has perpetually released information regarding the occult, secret societies, freemasonry and ancient esotericism seemingly with no response from the powers that be, otherwise why would he?! Maybe this is a deliberate act of disinformation.

Manly Hall left his ENTIRE collection of materials (published and unpublished) to Jordan Maxwell. I'm almost finished listening to a 19-part youtube lecture by Jordan and I am impressed with the "rightness" of his desire and his genuine attunement with Inner Being. In my opinion he is a good, kind-hearted, well-intentioned, brilliant, scholarly man.

Bill Ryan
25th June 2010, 07:43
Is Jordan part of a deliberate deception?

Absolutely not.



Is he simply misinformed on some points?

Some of his etymology is incorrect, and I've drawn his attention to that. (Other things I thought were incorrect... then I did the research and found out I was wrong!)

HORIZONS
25th June 2010, 12:22
Who knows if any of it is true ?? Unless some information, event or person has deliberately crossed your life to make you think otherwise.

This is not the case for me. So it's easy to look at all the spin and hype behind flu..fema..illuminati..WWIII... I mean, take your pick... there is soooo much damn stuff to 'worry' about that that in itself makes me skeptical.

I mean, it seems like the name of the game is worry.. and how to make a living out of it. Whether you are preaching it, or acting on it.

Not surprising really, I mean.. we exist.. we wish to survive. No wonder we take an interest.

My take is that...in all likelihood, your life will be over or a significant chunk of it (even two years was way too much in my case) before any of these issues are ever proven or resolved.

Third world war ? Check out the 80's.

For all we know, an awful lot of us have perhaps less time left than we think. Not counting any kind of armageddon or take over or police state.

So my question out there is: Knowing this, how are you going to spend the time you have left?

I can see no further spiritual advancement for myself here at Avalon, because the overwhelming interest is in unprovable phenomenon and bedtime stories.

I keep an eye out, in case the populous ever want something different... I live in hope.

K

A very astute observation - I must agree.

Baelsfire
25th June 2010, 12:42
Here's some good reading about Mr Pine (http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/jordanmaxwell/jordanmaxwell.shtm)

@ Baelsfire

Don't get mad at me, you asked for truth and sometimes it hurts.
I was a fan of all of the people you listed, just like you.

Anymore I just listen to them for entertainment, and sort out the facts from the fluff. :confused:


I'm not mad at you, i just wasn't sure of where you stood on the matter :) As for the driving license thing.. that doesn't really make me think any less of "Jordan", seeing as the idea you (any natural flesh and blood being) needs permission to travel is somewhat crazy anyway! I'm sure your Native American Avatar friend would agree ;)

Baelsfire
25th June 2010, 13:01
Some of his etymology is incorrect, and I've drawn his attention to that. (Other things I thought were incorrect... then I did the research and found out I was wrong!)

This follows on with a point in my first post, as debunkers often follow an agenda to maintain status quo, that when a few of his points are proven or successfully suggested to be erroneous translations then the hope is that it will invalidate all his research and presenting's in the eye of the viewer.

I myself am aware of this as a tactic of professional CounterIntelligence and also general idiots (what's the difference one might ask?).

An great lot of what Jordan says resonates with me, and my experiences and view on realities. There are specific things where i think, whooaa, he's well off there!

This mainly is because he is, in my opinion, devout to using the "bibles" as a lens. He claims not to speak Hebrew, so he is always relying on other peoples interpretations of what the Old Testament is meant to say - and interpretations are never uniform. As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion. Its blatantly obvious to me that these in particular are carefully distorted and manipulated amalgamation of other "Myths" stemming from an assortment of places/cultures which served the purpose of the fascist catholic society being created. It would seem wise to me to instead go back to source materials and compare from that angle.

Of course, he does that.. a little. Still clutching that damn bible though. Something that resonates fear.

Am i rambling again? :p

Tommy
25th June 2010, 13:21
Hi,

Personally I don't think it exists any "hoaxer" inside Jordan Maxwell, he is waaay to complex and he would have to be a high grade actor in order to perform his statements without showing at least suspicious body language. (as many know, body language is the best lie-detector. I seriously have problems seeing what Jordan would get out of a hoax like this in the first place.

However it is always important to question any whistle-blowers testimony, but I believe the best way to do so is basing it on your own research, not a bias "exposure" video. I am not a fan of bias concepts in general.

But again, do a search on any PC\PA whistleblower (eg. "Project Camelot Hoax", "Bob Dean" hoax and etc.) and you will find tons of people desperate to hide the truths from their self, and they have no problem sending other people on the wrong path as long as it fits with their own "world picture". I find it intriguing when someone feels like they can mark "hoax" on the entire project camelot concept for example. Are people not aware that these whistleblowers are individuals with their own agendas and intentions, also the fact that many was on the scene long before PC? I laugh when I try to use their rationale, simply because I think to myself it can not make sense to any intelligent life-form, however I stop laughing when I eventually realize the danger in such ignorant forces. Danger to other perhaps unwillingly ignorant or simply for those who have yet to awaken their potential. For us on this forum these "hoax" people should be a non-issue though.

Thats my ramble on the topic, now have a listen to the track below and listen to some sense (give it a little time for the Wise man to start talking, you might know it ;) )

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8463173/16%20-%20Memoria.mp3

Scott
25th June 2010, 14:15
This follows on with a point in my first post, as debunkers often follow an agenda to maintain status quo, that when a few of his points are proven or successfully suggested to be erroneous translations then the hope is that it will invalidate all his research and presenting's in the eye of the viewer.

I myself am aware of this as a tactic of professional CounterIntelligence and also general idiots (what's the difference one might ask?).

An great lot of what Jordan says resonates with me, and my experiences and view on realities. There are specific things where i think, whooaa, he's well off there!

This mainly is because he is, in my opinion, devout to using the "bibles" as a lens. He claims not to speak Hebrew, so he is always relying on other peoples interpretations of what the Old Testament is meant to say - and interpretations are never uniform. As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion. Its blatantly obvious to me that these in particular are carefully distorted and manipulated amalgamation of other "Myths" stemming from an assortment of places/cultures which served the purpose of the fascist catholic society being created. It would seem wise to me to instead go back to source materials and compare from that angle.

Of course, he does that.. a little. Still clutching that damn bible though. Something that resonates fear.

Am i rambling again? :p

I for one do not think you are rambling, your making clear, concise statements flavored with your individual knowledge.

Tommy
25th June 2010, 14:22
I agree that there may very well be a lot of counter-intelligence\propaganda going on, but I personally view the "John\Jane Does" as their worst threat to them self and others who are not aware.
A magnet can draw and push at the same, however you\we are the one who decides if there is going to be more + than - ;)

It is not about controlling the info, it's about bringing the correct info and not mislead people no matter which side of the pond you are standing on.
The same rule should (yes we all know) apply to both sides, no doubt.

RedeZra
25th June 2010, 20:52
As for the new testament material... well, hell, he may as well through the books in the bin there and go back to source in my opinion.

you seem to know where you're heading hehe


shall I even bother to elaborate


since you've already made up your mind

I would only waste my time


some souls go to hell with the head held high



where is the merit in mocking the martyrs

Baelsfire
25th June 2010, 22:14
you seem to know where you're heading hehe


shall I even bother to elaborate


since you've already made up your mind

I would only waste my time


some souls go to hell with the head held high



where is the merit in mocking the martyrs

Where is the merit in ignorantly ignoring the vast expanse of time before 2000 years ago, the religions, beliefs, sciences, and cultures of those civilisations? For instance, explain to me the origins of the word and concept of HELL :)

RedeZra
25th June 2010, 22:43
Where is the merit in ignorantly ignoring the vast expanse of time before 2000 years ago, the religions, beliefs, sciences, and cultures of those civilisations? For instance, explain to me the origins of the word and concept of HELL :)


hi there

you have responded with a smiley

so I will go easy on you lol


don't turn this into semantics


hell is a state of mind after death

call it gehenna if you want

or gehinnom hades and sheol


I know the early christians defended the bible with their lives

why would they do that

to die instead of renouncing their faith

can you fathom this


so please understand

as an upright human being

we do not mock the martyrs


oh hell is a state of mind

a period between incarnations

for those that deserve that


how is it


have you felt like dying of thirst

with mouth full of hot sand

3optic
25th June 2010, 23:04
Good grief..

RedeZra
25th June 2010, 23:08
Good grief..

oh my what a pseudo-intellectual input


if you can't back it up

please refrain from cheap remarks


when hell is real

is it warning or is it scare to talk about it

norman
25th June 2010, 23:55
Good grief..

QUITE!:confused:

Baelsfire
25th June 2010, 23:58
RedeZra, I am finding it hard to follow your train of logic ... and your posts are coming off (to me) as slightly incoherent. I've quoted a couple of bits from your above post, I hope you do not mind that i have reformatted them to be more congruent with the form of a discussion.


I know the early christians defended the bible with their lives. why would they do that?
to die instead of renouncing their faith - can you fathom this?

Of course i can fathom this. It was what they believed in. However belief does not imply fact, it is a perspective of what is true, obtained through a matter of faith - usually because of a lack of substantive evidence.

The early Christians of that day (many truly lovely people i'm sure) were still quite humble folk who generally lacked the benefits of education and exposure to the masses of evidence from ancient sites and the accumulating knowledge about the peoples there that we do in this age (however incomplete). Also most, fortunately for them, were not indoctrinated with the dogma of the Christian institution, formalised in the collection of works commonly refereed to as "the Bible"


hell is a state of mind after death, call it gehenna if you want or gehinnom hades and sheol

Hades was certainly not thought of as a state of mind, it was an actual domain.


we do not mock the martyrs

Which Martyrs, and how am I (or you) mocking them?


oh hell is a state of mind - a period between incarnations for those that deserve that

So you believe in reincarnation? I have to say this is (from my understanding) quite contradictory with the teachings of the New Testament, which you have come into this topic defending it as indisputable fact. I am confused by your confusing statements and the implications of them. What exactly is your faith?

Also, do you have anything to contribute to the topic in hand, that is on the subject of Jordan Maxwell?

Kulapops
26th June 2010, 00:25
Drill down through the dust. What is the purpose of Avalon?

People interact with truth, lies, illusion, banter, ego and sexual tension.

we are people. There are stories. None of it is concrete.

To me it seems like Mario Racing. There's a chimp, a chicken, a dino and Mario....and they just do lap after lap.

And you play for hours... and then you just want another go.

Like God? dislike God? Post it here. Want aliens? Don't want aliens? Believe in the CIA..or don't.

Christ... it's your life !!

This. Is your life.

Reflect on that... and consider it a worthy use of your time.

This is virtual reality. Virtual Insanity.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMPTXAc9aJ0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMPTXAc9aJ0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Baelsfire
26th June 2010, 00:32
Well a difference being is when you crash on mario kart, yoshi doesnt get really hurt. Its one thing to say "All is illusion, a game, I can just switch off and go to bed now" but when the **** hits the fan and a fully body armoured police thug is beating a granny up in front of you, would you, could you, do you, still say the same??

norman
26th June 2010, 00:38
but when the **** hits the fan and a fully body armoured police thug is beating a granny up in front of you, would you, could you, do you, still say the same??

sadly yes........

Reason?...... Vitual reality isn't virtual at all. It's dead real. It's the late lesson that reality is virtual.

Rimbaud
26th June 2010, 00:41
Friend Baelsfire,
Firstly I have no opinion over J. Maxwells Masonic links..has he been outed or something? I don't have enough time to read all the Avelon posts these days. Secondly as we have discussed before, what is wrong with being a "Fellow Craft Free Mason"?

I simply can't see that his comments should be debarred from this forum by a Masonic link..you might as well say that Baptists are barred from water! Baelsfire we've discussed this topic before and I can't see any change in the subject matter..ie are all Masons Evil? ..From my point of view, no they're not; in fact just the opposite. I totally accept the notion that there are some Bastards within the fold; but I must say that I've never met one. I swear to God that my Masonic experience has been a good one..and I continue to feel that Freemasonry is a good cause..I might get kicked off this site for saying so...but I'll go to bed tonight happy in the thought that my Brothers probably do more for society in terms of charity than half of the guttless Governments.

I suppose that by saying this, I tacitly support Jordan Maxwell despite not particularly liking him...I find him to be a bit of a brute; but I must conclude by saying this....There is nothing wrong with being a FreeMason so long as one enters the craft in the same Spirit that I entered Project Avelon..I joined in order to improve myself and hopefully instruct others. I didn't join to become less than I am.

Cheers Baelsfire

Rimbaud

RedeZra
26th June 2010, 00:43
The early Christians of that day (many truly lovely people i'm sure) were still quite humble folk who generally lacked the benefits of education and exposure to the masses of evidence from ancient sites and the accumulating knowledge about the peoples there that we do in this age (however incomplete). Also most, fortunately for them, were not indoctrinated with the dogma of the Christian institution, formalised in the collection of works commonly refereed to as "the Bible"



the early Christians were so close to the source of their faith

both in time and space

almost all of the Apostles paid with their lives for not denouncing Christ

heck the Christians were persecuted from both Jerusalem and Rome until early 300 AD

and no way did they die if they were not 100% certain about it's authenticity


the martyrs are those that defended sacred ground with their blood

so that the Gospel the Acts the Tanakh and other books could be preserved in a Bible

to tell us the remarkable story of Jesus as it happened 2000 years ago


unfortunately everything in this world suffers from corruption

the church is certainly no exception


reincarnation is a complex procedure

which the Bible only hints about without going into details


everything is a state of mind my friend - even Hades

but I would still help old granny from that thug

that's how we show our worth to God




Also, do you have anything to contribute to the topic in hand, that is on the subject of Jordan Maxwell?



ahem not much

only that masons rule at least the Western world

and if Jordanus is in on it - he sure hides it well hehe

TraineeHuman
26th June 2010, 01:09
Although Jordan Maxwell has in the past produced some extremely important and ground-breaking insights, it certainly doesn’t follow, of course, that all some other things he says are accurate. Such inaccuracies or mistakes, etc don’t affect the validity and truth of his initial insights and discoveries. It’s still true that he showed great insights and huge courage and independence of mind when he came up with those insights and some evidence for them.

The first half of Chris White‘s video presents what seem to be very valid and accurate criticisms of Maxwell. However, those criticisms don’t affect the insight that the Illuminati exist and have operated through a giant public deception of which the film The Matrix can be seen as a valid metaphor; and that the Vatican is heavily involved, and so on.

Chris White’s video explained that Maxwell was heavily influenced by Madame Blavatsky’s writings. I found that very interesting. On the one hand, Blavatsky knew a significant amount of esoteric knowledge. Here, by “esoteric” I mean the deeper, truer principles of spirituality. These are kept hidden from the masses, who only get the superficial or “exoteric” version of religion. I take it Maxwell drew on this to give him insights into what the esoteric teaching behind Christianity was, and hence detailed insights into how the Catholic Church had twisted the true teaching.

Incidentally, if anybody’s interested in what the esoteric teaching says, here’s one suggestion. Rather than reading Blavatsky you could look at the parables of Jesus (and no, I’m not a Christian). If you can understand what the real meaning of each parable is, I believe they’ll give you a pretty complete rundown on all the important items. Probably the most important parable is that of The Prodigal Son. This is actually all about embracing your dark side or “shadow” or “ego” or “pain-body” or “the unhappiness within you”. No, “embracing” doesn’t mean being rude or nasty, or self-indulgent (beyond enjoying life in all its beauty). Another important parable is about the night watchman who made a mistake by not “staying awake” every moment. You’ll find that in the advanced, i.e. esoteric, form of any religion it’s considered essential to watch yourself every single moment, like a hawk. That doesn’t mean not to continually flow with the universe, either. (It would take too much space to explain the seeming contradiction in that here.) But the night watchman parable is one of the parables about the crucial importance of consciousness, and of awareness. It’s also one of the parables implicitly about how essential it is to deeply know thyself. Interestingly, I observe that most people know very, very little about themselves, and also completely fail to make this one of the most important projects in their lives at all times, and even at any time. It’s all there in the parables, if you know how to look. And although “tough is the path and narrow is the gate,” it will make your life probably far more interesting than anything else can, if you dare to get serious about it. And it takes far longer to make it all practical in your own life than you ever imagined.

The unfortunate side to Blavatsky’s writings is that she fancied herself a channeller, and so she added in her own made-up nonsense. As a result, many people tend to dismiss Blavatsky as they find her too off-putting. Unfortunately, it seems to me (though I may be wrong) that Jordan has swallowed much of Blavatsky hook, line and sinker. (Maybe because he’s a Mason? I don’t know.) I believe for that reason, I’m afraid I don’t find him super-interesting in what he talks about today.

3optic
26th June 2010, 02:16
..are all Masons Evil? ..From my point of view, no they're not; in fact just the opposite. I totally accept the notion that there are some Bastards within the fold; but I must say that I've never met one. I swear to God that my Masonic experience has been a good one..and I continue to feel that Freemasonry is a good cause..I might get kicked off this site for saying so...but I'll go to bed tonight happy in the thought that my Brothers probably do more for society in terms of charity than half of the guttless Governments.

Rimbaud

Rimbaud, anyone who has done a minimal amount of investigation is well aware that being a Freemason does not make you a part of a cabal bent on global governance. Please stop apologizing for being a member!

Redezra, my reply to your post was a reaction to your heavy handed tone not the content of your post. Are we talking to you or a melodramatic prophet cliche who speaks like they came out of the 19th century?

Can I back up "Good grief"? No I can't. But I still love you.

Baelsfire
26th June 2010, 02:19
Hi Rimbaud, it seems you have maybe taken my comments out of context a little.. though maybe through fault of my own; by posting the segment associating alleged negative principles with Freemasonry alongside the piece on Jordan in the intial post.

Let me break down a little of your post in quotes & replies, hopefully i can clarify where i was angling from better..


Friend Baelsfire,
Firstly I have no opinion over J. Maxwells Masonic links..has he been outed or something? I don't have enough time to read all the Avelon posts these days. Secondly as we have discussed before, what is wrong with being a "Fellow Craft Free Mason"?

Well it seemed pretty obvious to me, from paying attention to what he speaks and his mannerisms he all but makes a statement saying so, and nothing in itself there is wrong it just explains a few things, such as how he would know and recognise the Council of 33.


I simply can't see that his comments should be debarred from this forum by a Masonic link..you might as well say that Baptists are barred from water! Baelsfire we've discussed this topic before and I can't see any change in the subject matter..ie are all Masons Evil? ..From my point of view, no they're not; in fact just the opposite.

Well therin lies the fallacy of generalisation, in my opinion! Saying "ALL Masons are evil" is like saying "ALL Bankers are Jewish" or "ALL poor people are animals", you get the drift. The site i posted the bits about the Freemasonry Oaths was decidingly anti-freemason propaganda, which i did attempt to make notice of, whilst objectifying to reach a wider audience and encourage critical thinking and input.

You yourself have the opinion there are a lot of people who are of the anti-freemason mentality here, hence your apparent need for the defensiveness. And with alledged oaths which effectively insinuate brotherly love and compassion is only due to initiated brethren whether they be corrupt little sods or not, and anything goes with "the outsiders" whatever ethical disposition they may be this does leave a large hurdle to jump over. I guess this is where the third sector, charity, becomes more of a strategic public relations exercise than a genuine endeavour to some.


I totally accept the notion that there are some Bastards within the fold; but I must say that I've never met one. I swear to God that my Masonic experience has been a good one..and I continue to feel that Freemasonry is a good cause..I might get kicked off this site for saying so...but I'll go to bed tonight happy in the thought that my Brothers probably do more for society in terms of charity than half of the guttless Governments.

LoL, I doubt very much you would be kicked off this site for such a statement! It would be contrary to their mission i think. The way i see it, in this moment of time, goes a little something like this:

Knowledge is Power. Freemasonry claims to have both. Some join for knowledge and the wisdom to use it, others join for power and the money to create it. I speculate here (but not without reason), but i suspect the latter is the greater motivator for the majority of members in current times. For instance capitalism, while a very clever thing, is not wise and has no place for sustainable spiritual growth. Infact it relies on deceit to insure success and thus knowledge is subverted for the transient illusion of power and the person is corrupt.

I could go on to speculate that the majority of high earning "respectable" individuals (specifically here in UK) are Freemasons and from my direct experience, their success relies on unethical behaviours sanctioned by equally corrupt individuals. But then they may also be Catholics. Or Jews. Or Nazi's. Suffice to say its through the corrupt individuals using groups as a medium to glorify a morality which is based upon money and power. A few rotten apples in a barrel can cause the whole lot to thrown out as inedible right?



There is nothing wrong with being a FreeMason so long as one enters the craft in the same Spirit that I entered Project Avelon..I joined in order to improve myself and hopefully instruct others. I didn't join to become less than I am.

Please my friend, don't take this as directed at your soul (I mean im not accusing you of being corrupt), but Improving Oneself may sound like a very noble goal, but of course is completely subjective to ones standard of morality, which is something that is malleable. Progression in societies often does not depend on loyalty to apparent foundations of ethics but rather on the standards of those who have already harnessed themselves into the helm within such society. In effect one is "bettering oneself" by submitting to will of another through the guise of a pompous title and the generation of equity.


But i digress! It is a complex subject to manifest discussion on, and I didnt help matters by associating Jordan Maxwell with Freemasonry through that particular site, though i did have specific reasons for doing so namely to point out the issue of manipulation and counter-manipulation and where one ends up asserting what as truth and how selectively is that truth applied (and to whom).

All the best, Love & Light

Joshua-Lee :)

tone3jaguar
26th June 2010, 03:03
Grizzom, in reference to the snap shot from the Federal Trade Commission web site. How many people are there that live in California that have the name Jordan Maxwell? I can tell you that I just searched Los Angeles and there where 5 Jordan Maxwells just in that City alone. Moreover, that screen capture you provided only says California. There could be hundreds of Jordan Maxwells in California. Kind of ambiguous weak evidence you present there.

RedeZra
26th June 2010, 04:10
Redezra, my reply to your post was a reaction to your heavy handed tone not the content of your post. Are we talking to you or a melodramatic prophet cliche who speaks like they came out of the 19th century?

Can I back up "Good grief"? No I can't. But I still love you.


lol I like to use as few words as possible

to paint a picture

I love you too

Scott
26th June 2010, 04:27
As far as Jordan being a Mason i cannot say, what I can point to though is personal experience. Being a researcher in Parapsychology & UFO's mainly, my research partner was interested in the Krishna outlook and their belief system.
So we joined them to investigate (No we did not shave our heads & hang out at airports :P) by 6 months we knew enough about the system to satisfy my research partners knowledge base but the food after the meeting was so darn good we ended up going for another 3 months haha. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

We did the same thing with many other groups including A.R.E, book of Urantia, Sufism and Eckankar just to name a few.
Although I personally have very little residue from the various research endeavors much can be garnered from the inside as apposed to the outside looking in :)

This may or may not have been Jordan's research process but he IS extremely well informed.

Grizzom
26th June 2010, 09:44
Grizzom, in reference to the snap shot from the Federal Trade Commission web site. How many people are there that live in California that have the name Jordan Maxwell? I can tell you that I just searched Los Angeles and there where 5 Jordan Maxwells just in that City alone. Moreover, that screen capture you provided only says California. There could be hundreds of Jordan Maxwells in California. Kind of ambiguous weak evidence you present there.

If you took the time to read it, it says Russell Pine Aka Jordan Maxwell, whats the odds of another Russell Pine that calls himself Jordan Maxwell?

He had a web site and offered travel tours and he was selling bogus license's on the side.

He's been confronted about this and has never disputed it?

The late Bill Cooper outed him years before by confronting him on live radio and made him look like a fool. (Mr Pine has never disputed this either)

Jim Marrs has come out and said on Rense that he should have never endorced JM in his book if he knew his true back ground.
I trust Jim more and I feel he's very truthful and is not a bullsh-tter like Jordan.

Before I go following some "Guru" I check him out thoroughly first, then I get a video or better go see him in person, so I can watch him preach his stuff closely watch his body movement and look for tells like shifting eyes and things like that to see if he shows signs of not being truthful.

(It takes more time and energy to lie then it does to tell the truth)

Ive had an ability spot these tells all my life and if you watch a video of Jordans, look closely when he tells one of his BS definitions of words!

Look I originally said that Mr pine/jordan was a entertainer, I was being nice.

My honest opinion is he's a flat out con man with some kind of agenda.

I wish he wasn't, I like his conspiracy theorys and most of what he lectures about, but he makes stuff up and lies when he doesn't need to? (Why???)

While were on the subject of con men what do you think about this video?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGh2h8FE50o
Part 2 - 13 here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=SITCHIN+IS+WRONG&aq=f)

What's This All About?

Welcome to the website devoted to addressing the claims of the ancient astronaut hypothesis popularized in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin. Who's behind this site? My name is Mike Heiser. Who am I? The short answer is that I'm a scholar of biblical and ancient Near Eastern languages, cultures, and religions.

Why do I bother with this stuff? Because I don't like ancient texts manipulated to promote false claims. If I were a lawyer I'd feel professionally obligated to tell you if someone was giving you bad legal advice. If I was a medical doctor, I'd owe you the truth if I knew the medicine you were taking was bogus or could kill you. If I was an accountant, I'd let you know if a neighbor's tax advice could put you in jail.

I'm none of those things, but I'm trying to provide the same service in my areas of expertise. I can tell you--and show you--that what Sitchin has written about Nibiru, the Anunnaki, the book of Genesis, the Nephilim, and a host of other things has absolutely no basis in the real data of the ancient world. I don't doubt that Zecharia Sitchin is a nice guy; he's just wrong. Nothing personal.
A Little Background


SITCHINISWRONG.COM has been online since 2001. Shortly after I wrote my novel, The Facade (http://www.facadethebook.com/) (during what should have been my first year of writing my PhD dissertation), I was invited to be a guest on Coast to Coast AM. Former host Art Bell asked me if I would debate Zecharia Sitchin live on the show and I accepted. Sitchin has never returned the favor. I was quickly attacked, though, by other "researchers" who accused me of making piles of money off Sitchin's name. I answered by posting my income tax returns on the Internet. My accusers crawled back under their rocks and I went on to finish my dissertation in Hebrew and ancient Semitic languages (University of Wisconsin-Madison, 2004). I never really returned to normal life completely, though. I've been on a number of radio shows, made frequent re-appearances on Coast to Coast AM, and spoken at conferences that focus on this sort of thing. The people I meet and the hosts that interview me have proven to be bright, inquisitive, likeable, and sincere. I just try to get them to look at the data.


Sitchen is wrong web site (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)

PaleoBabble (http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/)

Snake oil salesmen all base their work off Sitchens fairy tales and they may not be lying to their followers due to them truly believing Sitchens work to be true


I think most know Sitchen is making it up, and just get on his newage gravy train to make cash.



This is just my opinion and I could be wrong. :no:


(http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)

Bill Ryan
26th June 2010, 10:15
Before I go following some "Guru" I check him out thoroughly first, then I get a video or better go see him in person, so I can watch him preach his stuff closely watch his body movement and look for tells like shifting eyes and things like that to see if he shows signs of not being truthful.

Ive had an ability spot these tells all my life and if you watch a video of Jordans, look closely when he tells one of his BS definitions of words!

Look I originally said that Mr pine/jordan was a entertainer, I was being nice.

My honest opinion is he's a flat out con man with some kind of agenda.

Actually, you posted one or two things on the forum that you never checked out at all! (Your thread re-posting Sorcha Faal is one example, but I do acknowledge that you quickly realized you'd made a mistake. However: how much experience do you have in this field when you don't know that Sorcha Fall is unreliable?)

He's absolutely not "a flat-out con man with some kind of agenda". That's a really unintelligent thing to say. It means straight away that you've not watched all his material (maybe you don't know how much there is to watch!), and certainly never met him or been to a conference where he's speaking.

You're correct about the etymology. Jordan get some of that quite wrong, and I've brought it to his attention. I recommended that he should not put so much emphasis on that where he can easily be shown to be incorrect. But as I said above, other things I thought were nonsense (like the root of Cardinal meaning 'hinge', which I had felt sure was wrong) turned out to be exactly right!

I don't know the truth behind the legal issue you brought up, but I suspect it was a set-up... there have been quite a few of those, which Jordan has told me about. You can be sure that Jordan has been attacked many, many times in some very clever ways, by very clever enemies. But I don't recall all the details he told me, which were off-record over dinner in an uncaptured conversation.

blue777
26th June 2010, 10:35
Hello Grizzom , hello Bill
How do we discern who is peddling snake oil and who is not?...discernment is very difficult, on one hand we have many videos on this foum from people like Maxwell....etc how do we discern if it is truth, reality..do we use intuition alone......mr grizzom why do you think mr maxwell is peddling snake oil what is the reason behind it?...Bill , if you think these people are telling us the truth what is the bottom line of discernment...come on gentlemen let us get to the truth......all people who peddle snake oil will be given the Scorpion Sting .....
lol
blue
please reply

Bill Ryan
26th June 2010, 10:44
While were on the subject of con men what do you think about this video?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGh2h8FE50o

What's This All About?

Welcome to the website devoted to addressing the claims of the ancient astronaut hypothesis popularized in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin. Who's behind this site? My name is Mike Heiser. Who am I? The short answer is that I'm a scholar of biblical and ancient Near Eastern languages, cultures, and religions.

Why do I bother with this stuff? Because I don't like ancient texts manipulated to promote false claims. If I were a lawyer I'd feel professionally obligated to tell you if someone was giving you bad legal advice. If I was a medical doctor, I'd owe you the truth if I knew the medicine you were taking was bogus or could kill you. If I was an accountant, I'd let you know if a neighbor's tax advice could put you in jail.

I'm none of those things, but I'm trying to provide the same service in my areas of expertise. I can tell you--and show you--that what Sitchin has written about Nibiru, the Anunnaki, the book of Genesis, the Nephilim, and a host of other things has absolutely no basis in the real data of the ancient world. I don't doubt that Zecharia Sitchin is a nice guy; he's just wrong. Nothing personal.
A Little Background


SITCHINISWRONG.COM has been online since 2001. Shortly after I wrote my novel, The Facade (http://www.facadethebook.com/) (during what should have been my first year of writing my PhD dissertation), I was invited to be a guest on Coast to Coast AM. Former host Art Bell asked me if I would debate Zecharia Sitchin live on the show and I accepted. Sitchin has never returned the favor. I was quickly attacked, though, by other "researchers" who accused me of making piles of money off Sitchin's name. I answered by posting my income tax returns on the Internet. My accusers crawled back under their rocks and I went on to finish my dissertation in Hebrew and ancient Semitic languages (University of Wisconsin-Madison, 2004). I never really returned to normal life completely, though. I've been on a number of radio shows, made frequent re-appearances on Coast to Coast AM, and spoken at conferences that focus on this sort of thing. The people I meet and the hosts that interview me have proven to be bright, inquisitive, likeable, and sincere. I just try to get them to look at the data.

Source (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)

Snake oil salesmen all base their work off Sitchens fairy tales and they may not be lying to their followers due to them truly believing Sitchens work to be true

I think most know Sitchen is making it up, and just get on his newage gravy train to make cash.

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong. :no:


(http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)



I'm with you on this one. I think Sitchin IS wrong, as best as I've been able to follow the data trail. My opinion at the moment is that I think Michael Heiser is well-meaning, and does a good job.

Just to compound this further, I received some very interesting insights into Sitchin from.... none other than Jordan Maxwell. Those were off-record, but let me say that they go towards supporting Heiser's thesis.

And to compound it further still, I do have a firm view that the group that have loosely come to be known as the Anunnaki (the term having been popularized by Sitchin, of course, and it's convenient to call them something) are very real indeed. It's just that Sitchin's claimed details may well be all wrong.

For sure, visitors from elsewhere helped to found the Sumerian civilization, and there is overwhelming evidence that we have been repeatedly visited from ancient times, and that the visitors interacted with us in depth for for long periods of time on many continents. But that's not the theme that Heiser debates.

greybeard
26th June 2010, 10:47
The answer as how to to tell who is peddling snake oil and who is genuinely telling it as it is, is in "Power vs Force" and Truth vs Falsehood" by Dr David Hawkins.
This may be a bit off topic but it is in the essence of the two recent posts.


Truth vs. Falsehood: How to Tell the Difference
by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Description...

Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood. Presented are discoveries of an enormous amount of crucial and significant information of great importance to mankind, along with calibrations of historical events, cultures, spiritual leaders, media, and more.

A science of consciousness developed which revealed that degrees of truth reflect concordant calibratable levels of consciousness on a scale of 1 to 1,000. When this verifiable test of truth was applied to multiple aspects of society (movies, art, politics, music, sociology, religion, scientific theories, spirituality, philosophy, everyday Americana, and all the countries of the world), the results were startling.

In this cutting-edge presentation, the author shares with the reader the simple, instantaneous technique that, like litmus paper, differentiates truth from falsehood in a matter of seconds.
Truth and Reality, as the author states, have no secrets, and everything that exists now or in the past—even a thought—is identifiable and calibratable forever from the omnipresent field of Consciousness itself.

The reader’s level of consciousness increases measurably as a consequence of exposure to this material, which is presented from a catalytic, powerful field of context and exposition. Conflict is resolved within the mind of the reader by means of recontextualization, which solves the dilemma. Argument and adversity are resolvable by identifying the positionalities of the ego, which are the basis of human suffering.
The publisher.
http://www.veritaspub.com/

Regards Chris

Scott
26th June 2010, 10:51
Darn I was going to ask Grizzom who was next, Sitchin then Tsarion but I got sidetracked and he edited his last post and added in Sitchin after Bill posted.
Didn't Jordan fund Sitchin early on?

Grizzom
26th June 2010, 11:00
Bill posted

Actually, you posted one or two things on the forum that you never checked out at all! (Your thread re-posting Sorcha Faal is one example, but I do acknowledge that you quickly realized you'd made a mistake. However: how much experience do you have in this field when you don't know that Sorcha Fall is unreliable?)

Reply:
Your right Bill, about that Sorcha Faal article I posted and as soon as I seen my mistake I apologized and have been very careful not to do it again. (And I haven't)

Ive watched every video Jordan Maxwell has put out and read most of his books before I formed my opinion, What more can you do then that?

I'm not a private eye, I'm just an average Joe who spends 20 hrs a day on the net reading everything I can find that interest me and nothing more.

Look I said Jordan was a entertainer and I feel that is what he is, just like Sitchen and the rest of his crowd, if you want to believe every word these people say then your getting into religious grounds so to speak and I don't want to start a My Maxwell is better then your Icke war.

blue777
26th June 2010, 11:18
The answer as how to to tell who is peddling snake oil and who is genuinely telling it as it is, is in "Power vs Force" and Truth vs Falsehood" by Dr David Hawkins.
This may be a bit off topic but it is in the essence of the two recent posts.


Truth vs. Falsehood: How to Tell the Difference
by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Description...

Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood. Presented are discoveries of an enormous amount of crucial and significant information of great importance to mankind, along with calibrations of historical events, cultures, spiritual leaders, media, and more.

Regards Chris

Therefore if sitchin was speaking falsehoods,then the truth was built on sand and many people have followed a false path, and what about the the other leaders in this esoteric field..I also do not believe that dr Hawkins has the final say on truth and reality , it is beyond him, if you think he has the final authority you can tell us all who is selling snake oil and who is not,as it would be an honourable thing to do,as you would know the truth., following one Guru is dangerous as Sitchin has shown us. therefore how do we discern the absolute truth reality.
regards
blue

Majorion
26th June 2010, 11:33
... therefore how do we discern the absolute truth reality.
There is no absolute-truth-reality, what you can do is put in a reasonable effort to fact-check questionable information, that especially applies to information on conspiracies. Your view should always be your own and not someone else', if there you find yourself confused then it is a sign of digesting too much, and perhaps on some darker level there are those deliberately putting information out there with the sole intent to confuse. I know its kind of a buzz-kill, but I have to tell you, you need to be more 'skeptical'.

blue777
26th June 2010, 11:37
There is no absolute-truth-reality, what you can do is put in a reasonable effort to fact-check questionable information, that especially applies to information on conspiracies. Your view should always be your own and not someone else', if there you find yourself confused then it is a sign of digesting too much, and perhaps on some darker level there are those deliberately putting information out there with the sole intent to confuse. I know its kind of a buzz-kill, but I have to tell you, you need to be more 'skeptical'.
hello majorian
greybeard quote
The answer as how to to tell who is peddling snake oil and who is genuinely telling it as it is, is in "Power vs Force" and Truth vs Falsehood" by Dr David Hawkins. Therefore he is saying that dr hawkins has the authority of the truth and reality ...i think he has not
quote:
There is no absolute-truth-reality........if there is no absolute truth reality, no one can discern a snake oil peddlar
lol

Tommy
26th June 2010, 11:46
I just want to throw out again that if Jordan Maxwell is a entertainer\actor as some say, where is the logic in "acting" like a whistleblower? You must be aware that his acting skills must be far above any oscar winning level in order to pull this off for such a long time. Then think about how much money high-grade actors earn, then look back at Maxwell. See something off there? Yes, he does not live in a Hollywood mansion nor does he have much money as far as I am aware. So what could he possibly get out of it then?

I am sure Bill would be able to back these claims up for me if he got time.

Other than that, I both agree and not agree with Jordan on various topics, but is he a hoaxer? Nope..

blue777
26th June 2010, 11:54
I just want to throw out again that if Jordan Maxwell is a entertainer\actor as some say, where is the logic in "acting" like a whistleblower? You must be aware that his acting skills must be far above any oscar winning level in order to pull this off for such a long time. Then think about how much money high-grade actors earn, then look back at Maxwell. See something off there? Yes, he does not live in a Hollywood mansion nor does he have much money as far as I am aware. So what could he possibly get out of it then?

I am sure Bill would be able to back these claims up for me if he got time.

Other than that, I both agree and not agree with Jordan on various topics, but is he a hoaxer? Nope..

hello seeingterra,
what is it that makes you believe he is not a hoaxer?, is it intuition , is it intellectual?, you can discern a snake oil peddlar with the reason behind why he is doing it, if it is for himself..the self, then it is snake oil , if it for the betterment of Mankind , then it is truth and reality
lol
blue

Tommy
26th June 2010, 12:06
Hi Blue777,

Valid questions indeed. I could have written pages upon pages about why I came to the conclusion I have, but honestly I don't have time right now so I will try to make it a little brief.

First off all (as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread) I always look at peoples body language, and especially since PC\PA interviews most commonly get released as video and not audio only you automatically get a treasure chest of information with just the body language itself. I have trained my brain\eyes to look for patterns in body language and etc, and some WB have "failed" my discerning process I must say (no, I will not name names at this time). Due to the body language and also, yes, my intuition I find JM to honestly believe most of what he is stating. My intuition tells me I would probably not enjoy Jordan's company (I might be wrong) because of the type of energy he emits at times, but that does not affect his credibility as a whistleblower, actually quite the opposite ;)

But trying to speculate in the reason for why any WB comes out and speaks publicly you can never know. For example what I sense in David Wilcock is that he enjoys his research, enjoys the spotlight, but most of all he enjoys interacting and sharing truth and notes.

My personal disclaimer is simple: All above is in my point of view based on the information I have at hand at this time :)

I guess I or anyone else can never fully answer your question mate :)

Grizzom
26th June 2010, 12:20
I just want to throw out again that if Jordan Maxwell is a entertainer\actor as some say, where is the logic in "acting" like a whistleblower?

You must be aware that his acting skills must be far above any oscar winning level in order to pull this off for such a long time.



I'm no whistle blower and never claimed to be?

Everything I posted is common knowledge, all you have to do is Google Jordan Maxwell and it's all their to read.

And as far as Jordans acting skills , he doesn't have any, You can see when he telling BS in his eyes and his manner, it's like (I know something that you don't nana nana boo boo and his pride/ego kicks in and he says I bet you didn't know that did ya!)
When you look into a lot of his definitions you find them to be flat out lies and that makes Jordan/Pine a Bullsh-tter in my book and not to be trusted.

(Why does he make up lies when he doesn't have to, his stuff is good enough that he doesn't have to?)

I didn't start this thread and Ive been getting hell for just stating my opinion and havering to defend my integrity over this BS thread.

Cant you voice your opinion with out getting you head cut off?

I wish Jordan could come down off his thrown and explain some of the bad stuff being said about him but he hasn't in the past and I doubt he ever will?

cheers

greybeard
26th June 2010, 12:38
Therefore if sitchin was speaking falsehoods,then the truth was built on sand and many people have followed a false path, and what about the the other leaders in this esoteric field..I also do not believe that dr Hawkins has the final say on truth and reality , it is beyond him, if you think he has the final authority you can tell us all who is selling snake oil and who is not,as it would be an honourable thing to do,as you would know the truth., following one Guru is dangerous as Sitchin has shown us. therefore how do we discern the absolute truth reality.
regards
blue

You would have to read the book in order to have an informed opinion on the validity of the statements made there in.
It would be some what foolish to dismiss something you have no knowledge of.
The truth lies in the field of consciousness not within Dr Hawkins.
I dont have a Guru but I am well read if you could call it that in the field of "spiritual" truth.
There is ultimate truth.
What is that?
Undeniably I exist.
That is Truth.
All joking aside read the book "Truth vs Falsehood" and then say its rubbish.
Twenty years of research went into that book no small undertaking.
Regards Chris

blue777
26th June 2010, 12:44
You would have to read the book in order to have an informed opinion on the validity of the statements made there in.
It would be some what foolish to dismiss something you have no knowledge of.
The truth lies in the field of consciousness not within Dr Hawkins.
I dont have a Guru but I am well read if you could call it that in the field of "spiritual" truth.
There is ultimate truth.
What is that?
Undeniably I exist.
That is Truth.
All joking aside read the book "Truth vs Falsehood" and then say its rubbish.
Twenty years of research went into that book no small undertaking.
Regards Chris

You are missing the point greybeard,
you have read the book , this should give you the discernment about people who are selling snake oil and who are giving out the truth..this will prove that DR HAWKINS THEORIES ARE CORRECT...THEREFORE TELL WHO IS SELLING SNAKE OIL..simple it does what it says on the tin!!!!
lol
blue

greybeard
26th June 2010, 12:55
You are missing the point greybeard,
you have read the book , this should give you the discernment about people who are selling snake oil and who are giving out the truth..this will prove that DR HAWKINS THEORIES ARE CORRECT...THEREFORE TELL WHO IS SELLING SNAKE OIL..simple it does what it says on the tin!!!!
lol
blue

Ha, you get to the point you see the non-sense of it all.
When you die what will serve you well?
The time proving that you are right?
Right or wrong is a point of view.
Hawkins work has to do with non duality.
A sliding scale from uplifting beneficial life supporting descending to detracting from life.

I have posted the bio on Dr Hawkins
His experience is second to none in the field.
Investigate thoroughly then make up your mind.
Regards Chris

Dr. David R. Hawkins

Biography Summary

Sir David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. is a nationally renowned psychiatrist, physician, researcher, spiritual teacher and lecturer. He co-authored the ground-breaking work, Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling, that helped revolutionize psychiatry.The uniqueness of Dr. Hawkins' work is that an individual of advanced spiritual consciousness also possesses the intellect and clarity to express and communicate the characteristics of these highly–evolved states of awareness that few have experienced. He established the Pathway of Devotional Nonduality – a direct course to Enlightenment via clarification of core essentials that merely await activation by decision, intention, and dedication of the will. His book, "Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality," is basically an instruction manual for the serious spiritual devotee, revealing information that is known only by those who have transcended the ego to reach Divine Realization.

His national television and radioappearances include The MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour, The Barbara Walters Show, The Today Show, adn Oprah Radio. Winner of the Huxley Award, knighted by the Sovereign Order of the Hospitaliers of St. John of Jerusalem, nominated for the Templeton Prize and honored in the East with the title "Tae Ryoung Sun Kak Tosa" (Foremost Teacher of the Way to Enlightenment), Dr. Hawkins' honors are vast. His background is detailed in Who's Who in America and Who's Who in the World, and his work has been acclaimed by many world leaders and Nobelists, including Mother Teresa. His life is devoted to the upliftment of mankind.

Dr. Hawkins has lectured at the University of Argentina; Notre Dame, Stanford, and Harvard Universities; Westminster Abbey; and the Oxford Forum. In addition, he has been an advisor to Catholic, Protestant, and Buddhist monasteries. He has conferred with foreign governments on international diplomacy and has been instrumental in resolving long-standing conflicts that were major threats to world peace. He is the author of the best-selling trilogy, Power vs. Force (published in 17 languages); The Eye of the I; and I: Reality and Subjectivity; and five additional books, including Truth vs. Falsehood; Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: The Stairway to Enlightenment; Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality; and Spirituality and Modern Man; and his latest book, Healing and Recovery, released in 2009. His books are published in numerous languages and sold worldwide.
Recent Accomplishments

Recent accomplishments include: Speaking Engagements at Agape Revelations Conference in Los Angeles headed by Reverend Michael Beckwith; the Hay House "I Can Do It" Conference in Las Vegas in 2007 and 2008 as a featured author and presenter; all-day presentations at the Hyatt Regency in Long Beach, California to an audience of 800, and in Prescott, Arizona to audiences of 500. He conducts regular local seminars and Satsangs to sold-out audiences in Sedona and Prescott, Arizona, as well as California, and participated in numerous domestic and international film documentaries exploring multifaceted spiritual topics and his current consciousness research findings. These seminars reveal data about our technological society and how to live a spiritual life within its complexities; titles include: "God vs. Science: Limits of the Mind," "Relativism vs. Reality," "What is Real?", "The Human Dilemma," "Spiritual Survival: Realization of Reality" and "Spirituality: Reason and Faith," to name a few. Seminar attendees include people from numerous countries who travel to the U.S. solely to experience the unique combination of the realization of scientific and spiritual knowingness exemplified by Dr. Hawkins; a contingent of South Koreans, headed by Reverend J. H. Moon of the International Meditation Association, traveled to Sedona in December of 2007 and 2008 exclusively for a seminar with Dr. Hawkins. He recorded a segment entitled "In The World But Not Of It" for a Nightingale-Conant CD set, focusing on integrating spiritual practice in our modern-day world. He participated in numerous radio interviews, including Oprah Radio and Noetic Sciences. In 2008 Dr. Hawkins completed his book "Reality, Spirituality and Modern Man," based on the revelations of consciousness research, describing how to discern truth from falsehood and the illusion of appearance from the core of inner reality.

His latest book, published in 2009, is entitled "Healing and Recovery," and is based on a group of lectures conducted by the author at the request of spiritual and self-help groups. The book reveals why the body may not respond to traditional medical approaches, and provides specific instructions and guidelines that can result in complete healing from any disease. Our society lives with constant stress, anxiety, fear, pain, suffering, depression, and worry. Alcoholism, drug addiction, obesity, sexual problems and cancer are constantly in the news. This timely book provides information about how to address life's challenges without necessarily resorting to drugs, surgery or counseling, and explains the importance of including spiritual practices in one's healing and recovery.

Dr. Hawkins receives so many requests for projects, radio and film interviews, and speaking engagements, both domestic and international, that he must turn down the vast majority; countries include Canada, Mexico, India, South Korea, Germany, England, Ireland, Japan, and Dubai, as well as from coast to coast in the U.S. Dr. Hawkins is bombarded with daily inquiries from around the world from people who seek answers, and know that the inspiration as well as proven techniques and spiritual practices Dr. Hawkins can provide will set them on the road to relief.
Spiritual Biography

Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned spiritual teacher, author, and speaker on the subject of advanced spiritual states, consciousness research, and the Realization of the Presence of God as Self.

His published works, as well as recorded lectures, have been widely recognized as unique in that a very advanced state of spiritual awareness occurred in an individual with a scientific and clinical background, who was later able to verbalize and explain the unusual phenomena in a manner that is clear and comprehensible. This has provided spiritual seekers around the world with a level of spiritual comprehension never before experienced.

The transition from the normal ego state of mind to its elimination by the Presence is described in the trilogy Power versus Force (1995), which won praise even from Mother Teresa; The Eye of the I (2001); and I: Reality and Subjectivity (2003), which have been translated and are available worldwide in foreign editions. The description of this transition is based on the actual experience of the author, and is not an intellectual interpretation of someone else's writings. Reviews (such as those on the Internet at amazon.com) have awarded the works with five stars.

The trilogy was preceded by research on the Nature of Consciousness and published as the doctoral dissertation, Qualitative and Quantitative Analysis and Calibration of the Levels of Consciousness (1995), which correlated the seemingly disparate domains of science and spirituality. This was accomplished by the major discovery of a technique that, for the first time in human history, demonstrated a means to discern truth from falsehood.

The importance of the initial work was given recognition by its very favorable and extensive review in Brain/Mind Bulletin and at later presentations such as the International Conference on Science and Consciousness. Many presentations were given to a variety of organizations, spiritual conferences, church groups, nuns, and monks, both nationally and in foreign countries, including the Oxford Forum. In the Far East, Dr. Hawkins is a recognized "Teacher of the Way to Enlightenment." (Tae Ryoung Sun Kak Dosa")

In response to his observation that much spiritual truth has been misunderstood over the ages due to lack of explanation, Dr. Hawkins presented monthly seminars and provided detailed explanations that are too lengthy to describe in book format. Recordings are available, along with questions and answers that provide additional clarification.

The overall design of this lifetime work is to recontextualize the human experience in terms of the evolution of consciousness and to integrate a comprehension of both mind and spirit as expressions of the innate Divinity that is the substrate and ongoing source of life and Existence. This dedication is signified by the statement "Gloria in Excelsis Deo!" with which his published works begin and end. The authenticity of his state of advanced spiritual awareness is further corroborated by the unique experiences and shifts of consciousness noted by attendees when being in Dr. Hawkins' presence. His love of mankind shines forth, allowing those in his presence to experience their own inner joy and well-being.

blue777
26th June 2010, 13:01
[QUOTE=greybeard;30052]Ha, you get to the point you see the non-sense of it all.
When you die what will serve you well?
The time proving that you are right?
Right or wrong is a point of view.
Hawkins work has to do with non duality.
A sliding scale from uplifting beneficial life supporting descending to detracting from life.

quote: yousaid a few posts back:"Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood."

You are still missing the point greybeard if you can discern truth from falsehood,, we want the answers now ..you read the book therefore you can discern truth from falsehood , that is what you said.......therefore you can tell us who is selling snake oil and who is telling the truth....otherwise why have this forum at all!!! or even the discussion!!we want to know truth from falsehood , right from wrong..now ....as it effects all of us to raise our consciousness...so tell us who the snake oil saleman are!!
lol
blue

Steven
26th June 2010, 13:15
In the 12th Planet book, Sitchin clearly mentioned it's his interpretation of the translation of the Sumerian tablet. Most of the time in his book, he presents the original translation (which might contains errors or historical mistake) and he makes his interpretation. Of course he can be wrong. Nevertheless, his whole body of work have certainly help to brought out some truth and shake the "official" version of history, which is far from the truth. There is some truth in his body of work that have shaken the official version of history, that is what is important in any work of this kind.

It is like Jordan Maxwell, there is truth in what he says that shaken the "official versions". That is the point. Of course there are interpretations that will be proven false and that is fine. It does not make the man a liar and his work a misleading interpretation. This kind of mentality is close to fundamentalism.

If we compare with ourselves, in our life, we have research, interpreted and made assumption which over the years have changed and some of them have been proven to be false. It does not make of us liars and "misleaders". It makes us researcher, that is the foundation of researching. Being wrong is not bad, it is normal. Avoid throwing the baby with the water's bath.

And as I said earlier in the thread, we got to keep in mind that these people have shaken the "official version of history". In doing that so, they have generates powerful enemies over the years. So, there are some people out in crusade to debunk them not for the matter of the truth, but for the matter to protect the "dogmas". They will use the mistakes and errors these researchers have made over the year to reduce their notoriety in the public domain.

Namaste, Steven

greybeard
26th June 2010, 13:26
[QUOTE=greybeard;30052]Ha, you get to the point you see the non-sense of it all.
When you die what will serve you well?
The time proving that you are right?
Right or wrong is a point of view.
Hawkins work has to do with non duality.
A sliding scale from uplifting beneficial life supporting descending to detracting from life.

quote: yousaid a few posts back:"Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood."

You are still missing the point greybeard if you can discern truth from falsehood,, we want the answers now ..you read the book therefore you can discern truth from falsehood , that is what you said.......therefore you can tell us who is selling snake oil and who is telling the truth....otherwise why have this forum at all!!! or even the discussion!!we want to know truth from falsehood , right from wrong..now ....as it effects all of us to raise our consciousness...so tell us who the snake oil saleman are!!
lol
blue

Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so.
I dont do calibrations as they are of no personal interest to me.
There are degrees of "right or wrong," some of Jordan Maxwell's work may be valid some not.
I dont have an opinion on it.
Im just pointing to a way that, if validation is important to you, you can tell the difference between truth and false hood.
My interest is the path of enlightenment so I only read books by enlightened beings now.
The only significant question for me is "What am I?"
However I respect the journey of all others and my first post here on this thread was to point out that there is a way to tell un-truth from truth.
The way is kinesology muscle testing and it accesses the field of consciousness which records every thought word and deed since time began and the spiritual vibration of these.
The work of Dr Diamond in this field attracted the attention of Dr Hawkins who saw the potential of it. He has had teams of people using this technique for twenty years in a scientific way to validate the accuracy of the method.

Regards Chris

blue777
26th June 2010, 13:26
[QUOTE=Steven;30056]In the 12th Planet book, Sitchin clearly mentioned it's his interpretation of the translation of the Sumerian tablet. Most of the time in his book, he presents the original translation (which might contains errors or historical mistake) and he makes his interpretation. Of course he can be wrong. Nevertheless, his whole body of work have certainly help to brought out some truth and shake the "official" version of history, which is far from the truth. There is some truth in his body of work that have shaken the official version of history, that is what is important in any work of this kind.

The problem here is one falsehood does not make a truth....therefore the interpretation of history is not the problem , his interpretation of what is happening now could be wrong if it is built on falsehoods...we are trying to get to the truth about maxwell and what he is saying....i have no- time for debunkers
lol
blue

blue777
26th June 2010, 13:34
[QUOTE=blue777;30054]

Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so.
I dont do calibrations as they are of no personal interest to me.
There are degrees of "right or wrong," some of Jordan Maxwell's work may be valid some not.
I dont have an opinion on it.
Im just pointing to a way that, if validation is important to you, you can tell the difference between truth and false hood.
My interest is the path of enlightenment so I only read books by enlightened beings now.
The only significant question for me is "What am I?"
However I respect the journey of all others and my first post here on this thread was to point out that there is a way to tell un-truth from truth.
The way is kinesology muscle testing and it accesses the field of consciousness which records every thought word and deed since time began and the spiritual vibration of these.
The work of Dr Diamond in this field attracted the attention of Dr Hawkins who saw the potential of it. He has had teams of people using this technique for twenty years in a scientific way to validate the accuracy of the method.

Regards Chris

quote:Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so..you said:quote: you said a few posts back:"Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood."Therefore you can tell us who the snake oil salesman are..
also quote :The only significant question for me is "What am I?"..you will not know what you are until you find out the reason for being here and why you have to help mankind.....not only to find out what you are...self......
therefore dr hawkins book appeals to the ego self
lol
blue

kriya
26th June 2010, 15:53
.
!!we want to know truth from falsehood , right from wrong..now ....

Blue the key to the answers you seek are within you. Develop your own intuition as you are a powerful being and have all the tools you require to know everything.

BTW, truth is an exact correspondence with reality.

Love,

Kriya

blue777
26th June 2010, 16:27
Blue the key to the answers you seek are within you. Develop your own intuition as you are a powerful being and have all the tools you require to know everything.

BTW, truth is an exact correspondence with reality.

Love,

Kriya

yes Krya ..i agree with you, reality and consciousness are key
lol
blue

greybeard
26th June 2010, 16:57
[QUOTE=greybeard;30057]

quote:Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so..you said:quote: you said a few posts back:"Reveals a breakthrough in documenting a new era of human knowledge. Only in the last decade has a science of Truth emerged that, for the first time in human history, enables the discernment of truth from falsehood."Therefore you can tell us who the snake oil salesman are..
also quote :The only significant question for me is "What am I?"..you will not know what you are until you find out the reason for being here and why you have to help mankind.....not only to find out what you are...self......
therefore dr hawkins book appeals to the ego self
lol
blue

You are of course right Blue777, Power vs Force appeals to the ego.
He meets you where you are in that book, then leads you on to transcend the ego in the book "Discovery of the Presence of God/ Devotional Non-duality"
You could save yourself a lot of time if you are truly interested in developing self into Self if you read his books.
I know why I am here.
Regards Chris
Regards Chris

Rimbaud
27th June 2010, 00:44
Joshua Lee ( if I may call you that as opposed to Baelsfire)

I totally recognise and agree with alot of what you said. I regret to say that I'm not a scholar and some of your comments went way over my head!.. I'm not intending to be poetical here; it's just me bowing to a superior mind. Actually that is not too difficult as looking at this website I feel particularly un-spiritual, being an ex soldier and lacking in the peace of mind that so many of the "Avelon" folk seem to find readily available.

I'm just about to go to bed; but I wonder if you'd join an ancient Masonic Lodge yourself? As far as I can see, you'd be able to answer your own questions instantly and have an impact on others. Be brave Joshua and come and see us from the inside, rather than sniping from the outside.

Rimbaud

blue777
27th June 2010, 12:56
[QUOTE=blue777;30062]

You are of course right Blue777, Power vs Force appeals to the ego.
He meets you where you are in that book, then leads you on to transcend the ego in the book "Discovery of the Presence of God/ Devotional Non-duality"
You could save yourself a lot of time if you are truly interested in developing self into Self if you read his books.
I know why I am here.
Regards Chris
Regards Chris

It really depends whom God is...in my book he is,infinite consciousness, therefore once we conquer our EGO AND FEAR we will have a higher consciousness
regards
blue

greybeard
27th June 2010, 16:27
[QUOTE=greybeard;30096]

It really depends whom God is...in my book he is,infinite consciousness, therefore once we conquer our EGO AND FEAR we will have a higher consciousness
regards
blue
God is infinite and beyond our comprehension and yet within all, the Presence of God is discoverable within.
When ego and fear are transcended the presence of God stands revealed and we are One with that Presence.
With higher consciousness right and appropriate actions just occurs it is not possible for disharmony and negativity to prevail.
That is why it is so important for us to be willing to be part of the on going raising of consciousness that is happening NOW.
Regards to you Blue777
Chris

blue777
27th June 2010, 16:40
[QUOTE=blue777;30231]
God is infinite and beyond our comprehension and yet within all, the Presence of God is discoverable within.
When ego and fear are transcended the presence of God stands revealed and we are One with that Presence.
With higher consciousness right and appropriate actions just occurs it is not possible for disharmony and negativity to prevail.
That is why it is so important for us to be willing to be part of the on going raising of consciousness that is happening NOW.
Regards to you Blue777
Chris

god is but a word.....infinite consciousness is a reality, therefore consciousness is within us , as well as beyond us...we however have to conquer our fear and ego before we can raise our consciousness...and how do you do that?
regards
blue

greybeard
27th June 2010, 17:53
Yes blue777 god is but a word.
Could I suggest that you have a look at the thread "The ego what is it? how to transcend"
There is a lot there from quite a few contributors, best to start at page one as that sets the context.
Its a subject that I have been studying for thirty years so Im just sharing what I have found to work for me.
Regards Chris

blue777
27th June 2010, 17:56
Yes blue777 god is but a word.
Could I suggest that you have a look at the thread "The ego what is it? how to transcend"
There is a lot there from quite a few contributors, best to start at page one as that sets the context.
Its a subject that I have been studying for thirty years so Im just sharing what I have found to work for me.
Regards Chris

no-ne has transcended their ego or fear on the earth ,otherwise they would be immortal
regards
blue

greybeard
27th June 2010, 18:45
no-ne has transcended their ego or fear on the earth ,otherwise they would be immortal
regards
blue

You got it blue.
Please read the last few posts on the ego thread that will save me answering here.
Though transcending ego is war of persuasion to let go of mind.
Every fully enlightened soul is an ego less state.
Regards Chris

Baelsfire
28th June 2010, 14:49
Well I've decided that Jordan, like any other being, is on a journey. He may not always be correct, but so much of what he has spoken about in material of his i have seen so far generally resonates with my perspective profoundly. Of course there are parts were i think "oh hes onto to a red herring with that interpretation" - but thats part of the wonder! If we all thought exactly the same and saw in uniform fashion, then we may as well grow and extra set of limbs and call ourselves Ants! And wouldn't that be boring.

As some one adeptly mentioned already, research is not about being 100% correct first time around, its about a redefinition of ideas through time according to new information. If some one gets something wrong they shouldn't be ostracised nor should they feel humiliated. If the cause is just then it can only be a good thing because the end result is TRUTH.

From what i understand Jordan has been responsible or part of the foundations, for so much information that we all listen to and go WOW. New ways of thinking, and looking at things. God knows that the Catholic church wasn't enlightening humankind right? And while reactionary counter movements like so-called Satanism in the mainstream since the 1960's have done a lot for liberating society from the Chains of Catholic dogma, dwelling in the atheistic carnality and materialism does little for the intellect and spiritual growth in the long run.

So i think so many people should be grateful for Jordan Maxwell. Instead, driven by the paranoia from the initial awakening from the lies the people had been living under they freak out.. "OMG HE BELIEVES IN THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS!" and some how equate that to meaning "OMG HE WANTS TO EAT YOUR BABY, DEFILE YOUR PARENTS AND TURN YOU INTO A SLAVE-SLUG". Which is ridiculous lol. The world needs more free thinkers.

And while it saddens me that Jordan appears to have a deep fear of something, that is a deamon for him to face, maybe his dweller on the threshold. And isnt that something we all need to face? If we are to grow we should look inwards more rather than throwing eggs at the people who helped give you some information to allow you to start the journey (or continue it, as may be the case). Like Jordan says, you better account for yourself.

I look forward to hearing more of his words and the ways he has come to see things, or at least, the things he feels at liberty (granted freedom?!) to put across.

tone3jaguar
28th June 2010, 16:25
The moment you give it a name or try to describe it you disconnect from it, god that is.

Baelsfire
28th June 2010, 16:36
i dont understand that tone3jaguar;

Beth
28th June 2010, 16:37
Well I've decided that Jordan, like any other being, is on a journey. He may not always be correct, but so much of what he has spoken about in material of his i have seen so far generally resonates with my perspective profoundly. Of course there are parts were i think "oh hes onto to a red herring with that interpretation" - but thats part of the wonder! If we all thought exactly the same and saw in uniform fashion, then we may as well grow and extra set of limbs and call ourselves Ants! And wouldn't that be boring.

As some one adeptly mentioned already, research is not about being 100% correct first time around, its about a redefinition of ideas through time according to new information. If some one gets something wrong they shouldn't be ostracised nor should they feel humiliated. If the cause is just then it can only be a good thing because the end result is TRUTH.

From what i understand Jordan has been responsible or part of the foundations, for so much information that we all listen to and go WOW. New ways of thinking, and looking at things. God knows that the Catholic church wasn't enlightening humankind right? And while reactionary counter movements like so-called Satanism in the mainstream since the 1960's have done a lot for liberating society from the Chains of Catholic dogma, dwelling in the atheistic carnality and materialism does little for the intellect and spiritual growth in the long run.

So i think so many people should be grateful for Jordan Maxwell. Instead, driven by the paranoia from the initial awakening from the lies the people had been living under they freak out.. "OMG HE BELIEVES IN THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS!" and some how equate that to meaning "OMG HE WANTS TO EAT YOUR BABY, DEFILE YOUR PARENTS AND TURN YOU INTO A SLAVE-SLUG". Which is ridiculous lol. The world needs more free thinkers.

And while it saddens me that Jordan appears to have a deep fear of something, that is a deamon for him to face, maybe his dweller on the threshold. And isnt that something we all need to face? If we are to grow we should look inwards more rather than throwing eggs at the people who helped give you some information to allow you to start the journey (or continue it, as may be the case). Like Jordan says, you better account for yourself.

I look forward to hearing more of his words and the ways he has come to see things, or at least, the things he feels at liberty (granted freedom?!) to put across.

Great post, Baels.

3optic
2nd July 2010, 15:06
i dont understand that tone3jaguar;

He means God is not of the mind so attempts to conceptualize Him/Her/It blocks the connection.

Baelsfire
3rd July 2010, 01:00
ahhh. interesting theory. i would think about it but im guessing the point is not to. is that ironic? :p

heyokah
19th July 2010, 07:20
Well I've decided that Jordan, like any other being, is on a journey. He may not always be correct, but so much of what he has spoken about in material of his i have seen so far generally resonates with my perspective profoundly. Of course there are parts were i think "oh hes onto to a red herring with that interpretation" - but thats part of the wonder! If we all thought exactly the same and saw in uniform fashion, then we may as well grow and extra set of limbs and call ourselves Ants! And wouldn't that be boring.

As some one adeptly mentioned already, research is not about being 100% correct first time around, its about a redefinition of ideas through time according to new information. If some one gets something wrong they shouldn't be ostracised nor should they feel humiliated. If the cause is just then it can only be a good thing because the end result is TRUTH.

From what i understand Jordan has been responsible or part of the foundations, for so much information that we all listen to and go WOW. New ways of thinking, and looking at things. God knows that the Catholic church wasn't enlightening humankind right? And while reactionary counter movements like so-called Satanism in the mainstream since the 1960's have done a lot for liberating society from the Chains of Catholic dogma, dwelling in the atheistic carnality and materialism does little for the intellect and spiritual growth in the long run.

So i think so many people should be grateful for Jordan Maxwell. Instead, driven by the paranoia from the initial awakening from the lies the people had been living under they freak out.. "OMG HE BELIEVES IN THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS!" and some how equate that to meaning "OMG HE WANTS TO EAT YOUR BABY, DEFILE YOUR PARENTS AND TURN YOU INTO A SLAVE-SLUG". Which is ridiculous lol. The world needs more free thinkers.

And while it saddens me that Jordan appears to have a deep fear of something, that is a deamon for him to face, maybe his dweller on the threshold. And isnt that something we all need to face? If we are to grow we should look inwards more rather than throwing eggs at the people who helped give you some information to allow you to start the journey (or continue it, as may be the case). Like Jordan says, you better account for yourself.

I look forward to hearing more of his words and the ways he has come to see things, or at least, the things he feels at liberty (granted freedom?!) to put across.


Thank you for this honest post.
Especially the last part


And while it saddens me that Jordan appears to have a deep fear of something, that is a deamon for him to face, maybe his dweller on the threshold. And isnt that something we all need to face? If we are to grow we should look inwards more rather than throwing eggs at the people who helped give you some information to allow you to start the journey (or continue it, as may be the case). Like Jordan says, you better account for yourself.

I look forward to hearing more of his words and the ways he has come to see things, or at least, the things he feels at liberty (granted freedom?!) to put across.

I can see that deep fear in Jordan Maxwell and it bothers me, in the sense that all this research doesn't seem to have made the guy happy, healthy or ready to "fight".
I miss a Warrior !!
But well.... You can't win/have them all ....

blue777
19th July 2010, 08:15
quote:
Well I've decided that Jordan, like any other being, is on a journey. He may not always be correct, but so much of what he has spoken about in material of his i have seen so far generally resonates with my perspective profoundly. Of course there are parts were i think "oh hes onto to a red herring with that interpretation" - but thats part of the wonder! If we all thought exactly the same and saw in uniform fashion, then we may as well grow and extra set of limbs and call ourselves Ants! And wouldn't that be boring.

There is no-one on the Earth who does not suffer from FEAR and EGO and Maxwell is like all of us.....have you tried being a whistleblower?....therefore give the man all the credit he deserves
lol
blue

folotheflo
19th July 2010, 11:48
i'm with baelsfire on this one, or at least your views on jordan. regarding the knowing of truth, no need to worry, "everybody's gotta learn sometime", truth will always boil to the surface. we will all learn the truth at some point, and if our intention is to actually follow the path of truth, then we may get there quicker. just keep learning, look and listen to it all, every facet of life, choose the areas you wish to experience, become the truth you have learned and if it works, well then well done, i'll see you somewhere on the path

000
19th July 2010, 17:20
Maxwell is a soul inhabiting a human body as we all are. He makes mistakes as we all do. It is all a part of falling and learning to get up again, whether it is a tiny glitch in one's step, or a collapse, one learns to correct it on one's own.

I personally enjoy his talks very much and have great respect and gratitude for a lot of the research he has done.

The key is to trust your self before all else. What people tell you is right or what is wrong is absolutely irrelevant. You ultimately are where the 'buck stops'. "It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance." - Thomas Huxley[/URL][URL="http://twitter.com/satori_zen/status/3556521143"] (http://twitter.com/satori_zen/status/3556521143)

Debunkers have their place in this infinitely intricate yet highly simple unfolding and I respect them for that [although admittedly they are very annoying on days where I have more 'ego' covering my 'self'] and protectors have their place and I respect them equally as much [sometimes I am more on this side but I try to remain grounded and see all views and decide for my self.]

The thing I like to do is not participate in the dualism, which I do have to remind myself to do sometimes, being imperfect as I am, and see everything as two sides of the same coin. Two roads which will likely end up at the same destination. It's a journey :]

Rimbaud
24th July 2010, 02:24
I'm with Blue777 on this one...For Gods sake stop stuffing people in pigeon holes...there's more to life than this nonsense!

Rimbaud